August 28, 2025 • 43 mins
Susan Burton shares her powerful journey from cycling through prison to founding A New Way of Life, an organization providing housing and support for formerly incarcerated women with a 94% success rate. Her story illuminates how systemic racism criminalizes Black women's survival strategies while offering a model for healing through love, tolerance, and community care.
• Experiencing the tragic death of her five-year-old son and lacking access to healing resources in South LA
• Discovering the disparity between how addiction is treated in Black communities (prison) versus white communities (treatment)
• Creating A New Way of Life to offer housing, family reunification, workforce development, and time to heal
• Describing prison conditions as dehumanizing systems that strip identity and dignity
• Emphasizing how faith grounds her work as "a vessel for God's work"
• Challenging churches to move beyond judgment to practical support and abolition
• Extending her mission beyond reentry to community mutual aid during crises
Visit anewwayoflife.org to learn more about Susan Burton's work and upcoming events including the Justice on Trial Film Festival on October 4th and their annual gala on December 7th.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Abolitionist Sanctuary podcast,
where we talk faith, abolitionand Black motherhood.
I am your host, reverend DrNakia Smith-Robert, the founder
and executive director ofAbolitionist Sanctuary.
We are a national coalitionleading a faith-based
(00:26):
abolitionist movement.
Thank you to our audio andvisual audiences for joining us
on YouTube, instagram, facebookand all streaming platforms.
Let's build abolitionistsanctuaries together with this
critical and candid conversation.
For today's episode, I amexcited to introduce our guest.
(00:57):
Mrs Susan Burton is a leader inthe criminal justice reform
movement, founder of A New Wayof Life and an outspoken voice
to end mass incarceration.
Following the tragic accidentaldeath of her five-year-old son,
Susan's world collapsed,coupled with past trauma and
pain.
(01:17):
Her loss snapped the finaltether of resilience.
She descended into darkness anddespair.
But, living in South LosAngeles, susan didn't have
access to the resources sheneeded to heal.
Without support, she turned todrugs and alcohol, which led to
nearly 20 years of revolving inand out of prison.
(01:41):
Out of prison, drawing on herpersonal experiences, she
founded a new way of lifereentry project in 1998,
dedicating her life to helpingother women break the cycle of
mass incarceration.
A new way of life providesresources such as housing, case
(02:01):
management, employment, legalservices, leadership development
and community organizing onbehalf of, and along with people
who struggle to rebuild theirlives after incarceration.
Mrs Burton has received numerousawards and honors for her work
(02:28):
work.
In 2010, she was named the CNNTop 10 Hero and received the
Glitzman Citizen Activist Awardfrom the Center for Public
Leadership at Harvard KennedySchool.
She is a recipient of theEncore Purpose Prize and the
James Irvine FoundationLeadership Award.
In 2015, on the 50thanniversary of the Selma to
Montgomery marches and thesigning of the Voting Rights Act
of 1965, the Los Angeles Timesnamed Susan one of the 18 new
(02:52):
civil rights leaders in thenation.
Released in 2017, her memoirBecoming Mrs Burton received a
2018 NAACP Image Award forOutstanding Literary Work in the
Category of Biography andAutobiography.
Becoming Mrs Burton is also therecipient of the inaugural
(03:17):
Goddard Riverside Stephen RussoBook Prize for Social Justice.
Mrs Burton holds an HonoraryDoctor of Humane Letters from
California State Northridge.
Thank you for joining us, mrsBurton.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I am so pleased to be here when I hear that I think
from whence we come and what'spossible when we extend support
and help to people instead ofjudging.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
I appreciate your witness.
You are definitely not just aCNN hero, but a shero of mine
and so many others.
So let's hop right into ourconversation.
Tell us about young SusanBurton what is your earliest
memory of a time where you feltmost joy and the most love?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Oh, I'm picturing myself as about a five,
six-year-old in Lincoln Park inEast LA and it is the 4th of
July, or it might've beenMemorial Day, or it might have
been Memorial Day and my dad wasreally big on taking us to
celebrate holidays.
(04:28):
We were out at the park and hewas barbecuing.
I had put a stick in with aline and a hook with a worm in
the lake.
I came up with I think it was agoldfish, but it was about
three inches long and I wantedmy daddy to barbecue it.
She threw it back into the lake, but that's a really fond
(04:56):
memory of my childhood.
There are other memories, but Ido have some where I was with
my daddy who tried to keep mesafe.
There's a black man in America.
He wasn't even safe.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Tell me more about the struggles of maintaining
that safety and survival.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I was not able to maintain safety.
We were not able to maintainsafety as a family.
Many things happened.
They happened to my mom, theyhappened to my siblings.
They happened to my father.
You know he lost his work asjobs were sent overseas.
(05:45):
I can only imagine what shewent through doing domestic work
and then that left usvulnerable and being harmed by
people in our community.
Great migration from the Southmy mother and father were part
(06:05):
of that.
They landed in a project inEast LA called Aliso Village,
designed for them to land into,and they, coming from the South,
wasn't to understand thesophistication of the trap they
had fell into.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
But yeah, Our organization focuses on the
survival strategies of poorBlack mothers who do anything
necessary to provide forthemselves and their children
against unjust systems.
And what we see?
That society often blames Blackmothers for their survival
(06:42):
strategies, for trying to make away out of no way, and we want
to imagine a world where that'snot the case, where Black
mothers aren't blamed but weinstead interrogate the systems,
such as poverty and rentlining,that make survival nearly
impossible in the first place.
So this story of your momresonates with me, particularly
(07:03):
growing up to a single Blackmother who had my brother at the
age of 15 and watching hersometimes bend rules and break
law to keep a roof over our headand food on the table.
So you mentioned about thesafety of your dad.
You mentioned about thesurvival strategies of your mom.
Tell us what is your survivalstory?
What negotiations did you makein life to make ends meet?
(07:25):
I?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
negotiated everything , dr Robert.
I lost everything.
I lost myself, but then I didfind myself.
I remember as a little childhow I was being harmed and not
have safety.
I remember as a young woman howI allowed my body to be
(07:47):
exploited.
I remember when, after my son'sdeath, how I turned to drugs and
alcohol to cope with thelifetime of harm that I had
endured.
That was, you know, my motherused to talk about the straw
that broke the camel's back.
That broke my back and I fellinto a spiral of addiction and
(08:11):
substance abuse and alcoholismand spiraled in and out of the
criminal justice system.
Just lost All the while.
I knew there was something morein me.
I knew there had to be more tolife for me, but I just didn't
(08:33):
know how to get to it.
So the community and theresources, the supports that we
give in our community, the love,the compassion that we extend
one another, is so important ina world that will judge us and
(08:55):
trample over our hopes and ourdreams, our skills, our
intellect, our talent and ourgifts, feels, our intellect, our
talent and our gifts.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, this system is stacked up against us and we are
blamed for it, for carrying ourcommunities, our families, on
our back and even our democracy.
Black women are the mosteducated, we are providers in
80% of households, we are oftenthe primary caregivers, and yet
we are the poorest of everyother ethnic group except Native
(09:27):
American.
We are often caught in the hardplace, and I hear you in your
survival story and the thingsthat you had to navigate and how
it became so crushing that youturned to substances and
underground economies Forabolitionist sanctuary.
Your survival story is a sourceof salvation that you are seen
(09:51):
in the image of the divine, nomatter what those survival
strategies were, because we knowthat this system is designed to
crush us, but there is a Godwho does not want to see us
destroyed, right, well, webelieve in the salvific value of
Black women's moral agency.
So thank you for sharing yoursurvival story, and particularly
(10:13):
the nuances of Black motherhood.
As we talk about your earlierchildhood, the role of your
family and Black motherhood inyour survival story, how does
this become the impetus for anew way of life?
Why did you establish thisorganization?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
After recycling in and out of the prison system,
october 4th of 1997, I foundhelp in Santa Monica, and in
Santa Monica there was thiselaborate buffet of services, of
(10:50):
social services, of support, ofwork, of love, of compassion,
of tolerance and patience.
And I began to think.
And I began to think why wasthat not available in South LA?
(11:20):
Why was I chained, stripped ofmy clothing, to work for eight
cents an hour in a prisonplantation, instead of given an
opportunity to eat from thebuffet of social services that
were in Santa Monica?
When they are caught with drugsin Santa Monica, they get to go
(11:40):
to treatment.
In Santa Monica they get to goto treatment, they get diverted
from prison, they get to do acommunity service.
They get a piece of paper froma judge that says go to
Alcoholics Anonymous.
(12:01):
No one ever told me there was asolution for the problem I had
acquired through substance use.
I began to understand that Iwasn't a bad person, I was a
harm person and I was copingwith the harm with what was
available.
(12:22):
See, we didn't have therapy inSouth LA.
We didn't have diversions.
There was Alcoholics Anonymousthere, but I didn't know about
Alcoholics Anonymous.
I didn't know.
I had the disease, of addiction.
I didn't know there were 12steps to help me.
When I found that out, itreally angered me that there was
(12:46):
no willingness to invest in aBlack woman full of potential
but also full of harm.
So when you discover somethinglike I discovered in Santa
Monica, I wanted to bring it toSouth LA.
(13:09):
I wanted to bring it back to mycommunity and I thought if I
just helped a handful of women,everything would change.
I worked and got a house andwent to the bus station where we
got off the bus and I wouldoffer my friend that I had been
(13:30):
in prison with a place to be, aplace where it was drug,
alcohol-free, a place that wassafe.
And then about six months therewas a house full of women
helping women and we created acommunity of healing and of help
for one another.
(13:50):
But then I discovered that therewas a much bigger problem.
It wasn't about a couple ofwomen, a nation and a system
within that nation that washell-bent on harming all of us,
keeping us oppressed, suppressedand existing, not thriving, not
(14:17):
living, not honoring who we are.
And I said this is a muchbigger problem than I thought.
And I said this is a muchbigger problem than I thought.
But that's when I began to geta little politicized and began
to look at the other isms of theworld.
No-transcript.
(14:49):
The cultures, especially Blackcultures, in this nation.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, thank you for sharing your story, and what you
are emphasizing is thesedisparities.
There's this double system ofjustice and the disparities that
construct Black women asunworthy and undeserving of the
resources needed to securequality of life and survive.
(15:18):
Whereas white people whoencounter misfortune in society
maybe breaks the law, they areconsidered redeemable right that
they can be treated, that theyare deserving of resources,
whereby Black women are justpunished and a system is thrown
at them and they carry theweight of mass incarceration.
(15:40):
Why these interventions areimportant and why you are a hero
to so many is you saw thosedisparities and responded with
action.
You didn't have much, you justwent with what you had to that
bus station, one woman at a time.
You were able to help, and nowyou have this thriving nonprofit
(16:00):
organization where you trainothers to create safe homes so
that they can start a new way oflife.
It's interesting how Blackwomen have limited options to
survive, but then when we doanything we have to do to make a
way out, of no way we'repunished and we're not given the
resources we need to heal or toreenter into society whole.
(16:24):
Tell us what is life like onthe inside for Black women and
what are the conditions and theharms, the perpetual harms that
happen on the inside?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Life is undignified for all people incarcerated.
But also inside of prison thereis this same level of racism,
classism and sexism.
Black people are given themanual labor jobs.
(16:57):
People with shortish sentencesare given the hardest work.
People with life sentences runthe prison.
They're the ones with theclerical jobs, with the admin
jobs, with the supervisory jobs.
(17:19):
But there's this level of dailyharm.
You lose all your sense ofidentity.
You lose all your sense ofself-direction.
You lose all your sense ofstyle.
You are always in fright modebecause you can't fight, because
(17:43):
that's punishable at anotherlevel.
You become quite submissive towhatever they want to do to you,
because if you're notsubmissive you incur harm.
But even when you aresubmissive, you are still being
(18:07):
harmed.
You have no control over yourbody.
It belongs to them, same waythe body of my ancestors
belonged to the plantation slavemaster.
They strip you and examine yourbody.
(18:28):
They feed you food that youcan't even really identify as
food.
I remember we go into thekitchen on chicken day, which is
something you could identifybecause it was the shape of a
(18:51):
chicken, but it smelled likeantibiotics.
It was just so horrificallydehumanizing.
And when I reflect that I'm likeyou killed my son.
You killed my son, this systemof policing, of corrections.
(19:22):
You killed my son and I triedto deal with his death and the
only thing that was available inmy community because it was
during the war on drugs thatsaturated my community with this
substance from out of nowhere.
You put this crap in mycommunity and I consume it and
(19:47):
then you try to kill me with it.
Jesus, you try to kill myspirit, my soul, like Andre say.
But then I rose up.
I rose like the day.
(20:08):
I rose up unafraid, and I woulddo it a thousand times, over
and over again, not only for me,but for every woman that
crossed my path.
I would rise up, I would helpher rise up and we would stand
and reclaim our dignity, ourpurpose, our meaning and our
(20:33):
life's goal, over and over again.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
It's kind of like they say you tried to bury us
but you didn't know we werescenes.
Yes, yes, wow, that is powerful.
I have chills, I'm moved totears.
I don't want to tell your story, and so I'm just going to
encourage people to buy thisbook.
Mrs Burton goes into detailabout her son and state violence
that stole him prematurely, andalso her own experience with
(21:09):
violence and overcoming, and sothis story of rising like a
phoenix from ashes is important,important to raise up the
values of resilience that comesfrom the survival stories of
Black women, because prisons andthe prison industrial complex
seeks to rob us of that storyand to tell the false narrative
(21:31):
that we are deviant, that we arebad, that we are undeserving of
dignity and civil and humanrights, when in fact we are
worthy.
We are worthy because we areborn in the image of the divine.
We are worthy because we areBlack women, not in spite of it,
and so I want to thank you foryour transparency, and I want to
thank you that you do not entera door alone, but you bring a
(21:54):
community with you, and withthat comes our liberation, and
this is why the project ofabolition is so important.
Right, because prisons don'twork.
Prisons do not keep us anysafer.
You mentioned the harms thatcontinue to reproduce in prisons
because of these systems ofracial capitalism, sexism,
(22:14):
classism, heteronormativity allthe things that the prison
systems are built on continue tohurt and harm the most
vulnerable.
Black women are 13% of the USpopulation, but 30% of persons
on the inside.
80% of women who areincarcerated are Black mothers.
Black women are among thefastest prison population and
(22:39):
oftentimes Black women are notthere because of violent crimes,
but for survival crimes relatedto drugs or substance abuse.
We carry this history apartwith sexual violence, right, and
so it is not a solution toimprison people who are victims
to an oppressive and violentsystem.
(22:59):
Instead, we need help andresources.
So thank you, mrs Burton.
I also want to know aboutreentry, right.
You told us about the inside.
What is the importance ofreentry?
If you could help explain thereentry process to us and how a
new way of life is a leader inthe reentry space.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
And train people, because we have a 94% success
rate, and one of the reasons forthat is that we extend love and
(23:43):
tolerance to people.
None of us are perfect.
We all make mistakes, and folkscan make mistakes in the
re-entry process also.
But how do we walk into that?
A woman comes to the way oflife.
We welcome her in, we providefamily unification services.
(24:05):
We have a workforce developmentdepartment.
We have all of the food,clothing and toiletries that's
needed, but most of all, weallow people to know that it's
all right for them to begin toheal and they can do it in their
(24:25):
time.
We have no time limits that saysyou have to leave in 30 days,
nine days a year.
Take your time to begin todream again.
Set your goals.
Let us know how we can supportyou toward those dreams.
If you want to go back toschool, let's get you back in
school.
(24:46):
If you want to get trained,let's get you trained.
Let's work.
If you want to work, let ushelp you get to work.
But it's like what is it thatyou want to do?
We don't tell people what theyshould do.
We do have a curfew.
You have to be in by 10 o'clockand you can be out on the
weekend.
We have morning meditation at 8am where we start our day.
(25:10):
We have a cook that comes inand prepares the evening meal,
because what is it like to walkin and you have the smell of
smothered chicken and grains andcornbread or barbecue or
spaghetti.
You know what is it like whenyou come in and you walk into a
home.
So that whole smell in the foodis really important.
(25:32):
So we have a cook that takesfood.
We now have 12 houses in SouthLA and I was walking in today
and there was a two-month-oldbaby and the mother was able to
come here to New Way of Life andbe safe while she's carrying
her baby and bringing the babyinto the world, safe and cared
(25:54):
for and supported.
She doesn't have to run out towork.
She can have time to bond withher baby, she can have time to
do what she needs to do andeverybody's fed and comfortable
and warm.
Or in California, they're cool.
We have two levels of housinghere the initial re-entry homes.
(26:21):
Where they come, they get theirIDs, they get accustomed, we
begin to build trust, we beginto establish you know what it is
that they want to do when theydo get to work or they enroll in
school.
They can move to ourindependent homes that are not
staffed and they just live thereand take care of the home, and
(26:41):
one of the things that reallyamazing is the women take care
of the home so well.
Well, they are grateful andappreciative to be in a place
where they are safe, protected,supported, encouraged, inspired
and loved.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, thank you.
That sounds amazing.
I want to come over for dinner.
It sounds amazing.
And you know, society wants usto think that Black Mother's
survival strategy somehow isdestroying the family.
What you are doing is you'reshifting the values of love and
(27:32):
tolerance.
These women will thrive, takecare of their homes, build
community and dream again.
And so what I really like aboutA New Way of Life is and it
gives me chills is that you aregiving the women what you wanted
, what did not get yourself, thesafety that you deserve, the
(27:55):
resources that you needed.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I think that you hit the nail right on the head.
I think about things that I wasnot affording, and what would
have happened had I beenaffording those things?
And so I can afford them now.
And so I can afford them now.
I can afford to give them, Ican afford to be there.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So yeah, wow, your story resonates me with so much.
I don't know what thisconnection is that I feel to you
.
But man, woof, but man.
(28:49):
So how does your faith groundyou and inspires you throughout?
Speaker 2 (28:51):
your challenges, trials and tribulations, but
also in the ways you areproviding a new way of life for
other women behind you.
I have faith that we areimportant.
I am important and you areimportant too.
I have faith that all I need tohelp you understand how
important you are will be givento me to extend to you.
(29:14):
I know that I am a vessel forGod's work in the universe and
that God doesn't run out.
All I have to do is be willingto stand and stay my course.
So I guess that's sort of anunshakable faith.
(29:35):
Yes, and it's not to say Idon't get off course, but I try
to stay on course and I try tostay available to be that vessel
.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Staying the course, being faithful.
How has the church been aconduit, a partner, a
co-conspirator in this work, andhow has the church been absent?
What can the church do better?
So both, how has it helped andhow does the church harm?
Speaker 2 (30:16):
How can it do better?
What can we do?
I think the church was a partof creating the problem of mass
incarceration.
Yes, problem of massincarceration.
Yes, I think they didn't knowanybody.
They were into the judgment andthe casting out and teaching
our community to separate fromone another and cast away from
(30:36):
each other.
But what I know is that thereare no throwaway people.
We are all valuable and some ofus have a responsibility to
help others to see past theirshortcomings and to their values
, now sees themselves ashistorically being a part of the
(31:04):
problem and are opening andthinking about how to be a part
of the solution.
So the teachings that you doaround ablational sanctuary
every church needs to be trainedin that.
They need to understand thatthere's more to knowing besides
(31:32):
you saving my soul, that's right, because don't try to save my
soul when my stomach is grindingempty, hungry, or you're
talking about my soul and Idon't have a place to sleep.
You got to do more than that.
(31:53):
My soul and my spirit and myphysical body.
Yes, you'll be nourished enoughto come back to be my righteous
best self, but I can't getthere when I'm thirsty and
(32:18):
you're not giving me water.
We have a ways to come, but thechurch is an exceptional
vehicle to turn this whole thingaround, as it was an
exceptional vehicle to be a partof creating it.
(32:41):
It's a responsibility I hold,it's a responsibility the church
holds, to begin to understandmore about this and step into a
new frame of thinking, being anddoing.
(33:01):
I met you at the church, drLabert, at a church where I was
coming to offer help to thefolks in Altadena who had been
burnt out of their home.
That's not my per se mission.
My mission is to be a vessel ofhope and help in my community.
(33:26):
So it's beyond just womencoming out of prison.
When I saw the devast ofresponse to them black folks in
Alton Dana I knew what they weregoing to experience and what
(33:49):
they're going through.
I was like God, what can we do?
How can we help?
So we were able to extend mensome support and, most of all,
the biggest support is like Isee you, I understand, I love
(34:10):
you and here's $500 for everyone.
Here is some household goods tohelp you, I shop for you, I
deliver them to your doorstepsand that's what we did,
especially for the seniors.
One woman she's 89, missbrennan.
(34:32):
She's still calling me she wantto come over and get some blue,
get some collard greens out mybackyard.
I'm like, come on and get somecollard greens they're're
abundant.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
I'm serious.
They're hard to find out here.
I want some.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Girl.
I got them.
I'll be here all weekend.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah, ms Burton, thank you.
The theology that you gave usspeaks of the difference between
Christianity that is religious,and following Jesus, who is a
revolutionary Right, and thisJesus, he's a first century
abolitionist.
How do we know this is becausehe said I've come to set the
(35:10):
captives free as followers ofthis revolutionary Jesus, who
was a brown Palestinian Jew anda first century abolitionist.
He says that we are to clothethe naked, give food to the
hungry, drink to the thirsty,heal the brokenhearted right,
and that is the mission and thework that you are doing and that
you are inviting the church toremember.
(35:30):
It is that we are supposed todo as vessels and disciples of
Jesus, this revolutionary.
So thank you for alsohighlighting the ways in which
Abolitionist Sanctuary isleading this work with our
trainings that people can accessat abolitionacademycom.
I also am grateful for how youshared about the Eaton Canyon
(35:51):
wildfires.
Abolitionist Sanctuary has alsogiven mortgage assistance to
Black mothers.
We created a prayer resourceguide where we joined 50 clergy
persons from around the countrythat people could call.
So people go to our website,access that guide and reach a
person in various religiousbeliefs the prayers for support
(36:12):
they need, as well as we'vegiven mutual aid fund in terms
of gift cards and directassistance.
So we do want to partner withchurches and with organizations
like yourself in these recoveryefforts.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Let me just say though, that the folks in
Altadena.
It's a long road forreconstruction for them, and we
must continue to support themwith prayer, with resources,
with whatever we can do.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Fifty-four families in our church lost their homes,
so when I saw you come throughthose doors, I knew that
something transformative wouldhappen.
I'm just so grateful that youare a vessel and that you use
your resources to bless others.
Thank you for the ways in whichyou blessed our congregation at
First AME Pasadena.
I'm curious.
(36:57):
You said what the church can doto help.
I'm curious to know what youthink about prison ministries,
both from the perspective ofbeing on the inside and for
women on the outside.
Are prison ministries welcomed?
Are they effective?
Can they be?
Speaker 2 (37:11):
better.
There's a wide range ofdifferent types of prison
ministries, from things likeprison fellowship from things
like prison fellowship.
What I know is that anytime wecan reach in and be with people
that it's important.
If we don't reach in and bewith people, they will do
(37:35):
anything and everything to usand we will be abandoned and
left subject to such horrificharm.
So it's important to have themcommitted, supporting and
resourcing folks that needsupport and help, and it gives a
(37:56):
gathering place, I believe, forpeople who want to do something
but don't know how or what todo.
So prison ministries even ifyou're writing a letter to
someone, to know that there'ssomeone that is thinking about
them and someone they'reconnected to outside of that
(38:17):
prison getting together withlotions and panties and clothing
for people.
I remember wanting a decentpair of panties.
So bad, those things they gaveme were like diapers.
They were so big and thick andbulky and I remember just
wanting a nice pair, just forthe little panties.
(38:38):
You know what I'm talking aboutSome tiny panties.
So some of the things thatchurches can do with their
prison ministry is to beintentional about connection,
building community, bringing inresources, whether it's personal
hygiene, having hygiene forpeople when they get home, but
(39:00):
also keeping people connectedwith their children, making sure
children know that their mother, you know there's so much we
can do because that place hasdestroyed so much.
In connection, and again, love,tolerance and patience for
(39:21):
people.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Excellent Love, tolerance and patience.
Is there anything else you wantto share with us about what's
next for you?
Anything you want us to do tomake this book a New York Times
bestseller?
Well, you know, I just want tohave a little fun for us all
over with.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
I have a lot to give and offer.
I'm thinking about writinganother book about the safe
network because I create thesafe network after my book was
published.
I just continue to stayavailable so people can go to
our website, a newwayoflifeorg.
They can check us out, see howthey might want to support.
(40:02):
December 7th we're having a biggala.
October 4th we have a Justiceon Trial film festival here in
Los Angeles at Loyola MarymountUniversity.
They can come and be with us atour film festival.
We explore problems with thecriminal justice system through
(40:26):
film and we explore solutions tothat problem through film.
We have authors and speakers,so come out and share some time
with us, so come out and sharesome time with us.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
You heard Ms Burton Visit anewwayoflifeorg, where
you can find upcoming events andways to support a new way of
life organization and support anew film.
Here at Abolitionist Sanctuary,we are also raising funds for a
documentary to highlightstories like Mrs Burton and
other Singapore Black motherswho are struggling to survive
(41:04):
and overcome the stereotypes ofcriminalization and deviance.
So please visit us atabolitionsthanctuaryorg to learn
more about that documentaryproject as well and how you can
support it.
In closing, mrs Burton, we havesomething we call a rapid round
.
You did not see these words inadvance.
When I mention these words,tell me what's the first thing
(41:25):
that comes to mind.
I'm just going to shoot them atyou and you tell us what you
think.
John Legend.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Beautiful people Resistance.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
And who just sent you flowers.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Yeah, he sent me flowers.
John is a warrior, he's anangel warrior.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Safety.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
A new way of life.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Prisons.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Harm.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Black women Excellence Children.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Love.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Love.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Everybody.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Freedom Fight.
Abolitionist Sanctuary.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Powerful.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Thank you, Mrs Burton .
Thank you for joining thisconversation on the Abolitionist
Sanctuary podcast.
Please download and share onall platforms.
Again, I am your host, ReverendDr Nakia Smith-Robert, founder
and executive director ofAbolitionist Sanctuary.
Find us on YouTube, Instagram,Facebook and download our social
mobile app bringing togetherabolitionists and people who
(42:34):
love freedom.
Also, enroll in our courses andbecome certified at
abolitionacademycom.
Don't forget to become a memberand write our mailing list at
abolitionitionAcademycom.
Don't forget to remember andwrite our mailing list at
AbolitionIsSanctuaryorg.
As we conclude this episode,remember that abolition is not
only a practice, but it is a wayof life, and for me, abolition
is my religion.
Thank you so much.
Welcome to the Abolitionist Sanctuary podcast,
where we talk faith, abolitionand Black motherhood.
I am your host, reverend DrNakia Smith-Robert, the founder
and executive director ofAbolitionist Sanctuary.
We are a national coalitionleading a faith-based
(00:26):
abolitionist movement.
Thank you to our audio andvisual audiences for joining us
on YouTube, instagram, facebookand all streaming platforms.
Let's build abolitionistsanctuaries together with this
critical and candid conversation.
For today's episode, I amexcited to introduce our guest.
(00:57):
Mrs Susan Burton is a leader inthe criminal justice reform
movement, founder of A New Wayof Life and an outspoken voice
to end mass incarceration.
Following the tragic accidentaldeath of her five-year-old son,
Susan's world collapsed,coupled with past trauma and
pain.
(01:17):
Her loss snapped the finaltether of resilience.
She descended into darkness anddespair.
But, living in South LosAngeles, susan didn't have
access to the resources sheneeded to heal.
Without support, she turned todrugs and alcohol, which led to
nearly 20 years of revolving inand out of prison.
(01:41):
Out of prison, drawing on herpersonal experiences, she
founded a new way of lifereentry project in 1998,
dedicating her life to helpingother women break the cycle of
mass incarceration.
A new way of life providesresources such as housing, case
(02:01):
management, employment, legalservices, leadership development
and community organizing onbehalf of, and along with people
who struggle to rebuild theirlives after incarceration.
Mrs Burton has received numerousawards and honors for her work
(02:28):
work.
In 2010, she was named the CNNTop 10 Hero and received the
Glitzman Citizen Activist Awardfrom the Center for Public
Leadership at Harvard KennedySchool.
She is a recipient of theEncore Purpose Prize and the
James Irvine FoundationLeadership Award.
In 2015, on the 50thanniversary of the Selma to
Montgomery marches and thesigning of the Voting Rights Act
of 1965, the Los Angeles Timesnamed Susan one of the 18 new
(02:52):
civil rights leaders in thenation.
Released in 2017, her memoirBecoming Mrs Burton received a
2018 NAACP Image Award forOutstanding Literary Work in the
Category of Biography andAutobiography.
Becoming Mrs Burton is also therecipient of the inaugural
(03:17):
Goddard Riverside Stephen RussoBook Prize for Social Justice.
Mrs Burton holds an HonoraryDoctor of Humane Letters from
California State Northridge.
Thank you for joining us, mrsBurton.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I am so pleased to be here when I hear that I think
from whence we come and what'spossible when we extend support
and help to people instead ofjudging.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
I appreciate your witness.
You are definitely not just aCNN hero, but a shero of mine
and so many others.
So let's hop right into ourconversation.
Tell us about young SusanBurton what is your earliest
memory of a time where you feltmost joy and the most love?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Oh, I'm picturing myself as about a five,
six-year-old in Lincoln Park inEast LA and it is the 4th of
July, or it might've beenMemorial Day, or it might have
been Memorial Day and my dad wasreally big on taking us to
celebrate holidays.
(04:28):
We were out at the park and hewas barbecuing.
I had put a stick in with aline and a hook with a worm in
the lake.
I came up with I think it was agoldfish, but it was about
three inches long and I wantedmy daddy to barbecue it.
She threw it back into the lake, but that's a really fond
(04:56):
memory of my childhood.
There are other memories, but Ido have some where I was with
my daddy who tried to keep mesafe.
There's a black man in America.
He wasn't even safe.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Tell me more about the struggles of maintaining
that safety and survival.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I was not able to maintain safety.
We were not able to maintainsafety as a family.
Many things happened.
They happened to my mom, theyhappened to my siblings.
They happened to my father.
You know he lost his work asjobs were sent overseas.
(05:45):
I can only imagine what shewent through doing domestic work
and then that left usvulnerable and being harmed by
people in our community.
Great migration from the Southmy mother and father were part
(06:05):
of that.
They landed in a project inEast LA called Aliso Village,
designed for them to land into,and they, coming from the South,
wasn't to understand thesophistication of the trap they
had fell into.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
But yeah, Our organization focuses on the
survival strategies of poorBlack mothers who do anything
necessary to provide forthemselves and their children
against unjust systems.
And what we see?
That society often blames Blackmothers for their survival
(06:42):
strategies, for trying to make away out of no way, and we want
to imagine a world where that'snot the case, where Black
mothers aren't blamed but weinstead interrogate the systems,
such as poverty and rentlining,that make survival nearly
impossible in the first place.
So this story of your momresonates with me, particularly
(07:03):
growing up to a single Blackmother who had my brother at the
age of 15 and watching hersometimes bend rules and break
law to keep a roof over our headand food on the table.
So you mentioned about thesafety of your dad.
You mentioned about thesurvival strategies of your mom.
Tell us what is your survivalstory?
What negotiations did you makein life to make ends meet?
(07:25):
I?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
negotiated everything , dr Robert.
I lost everything.
I lost myself, but then I didfind myself.
I remember as a little childhow I was being harmed and not
have safety.
I remember as a young woman howI allowed my body to be
(07:47):
exploited.
I remember when, after my son'sdeath, how I turned to drugs and
alcohol to cope with thelifetime of harm that I had
endured.
That was, you know, my motherused to talk about the straw
that broke the camel's back.
That broke my back and I fellinto a spiral of addiction and
(08:11):
substance abuse and alcoholismand spiraled in and out of the
criminal justice system.
Just lost All the while.
I knew there was something morein me.
I knew there had to be more tolife for me, but I just didn't
(08:33):
know how to get to it.
So the community and theresources, the supports that we
give in our community, the love,the compassion that we extend
one another, is so important ina world that will judge us and
(08:55):
trample over our hopes and ourdreams, our skills, our
intellect, our talent and ourgifts, feels, our intellect, our
talent and our gifts.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, this system is stacked up against us and we are
blamed for it, for carrying ourcommunities, our families, on
our back and even our democracy.
Black women are the mosteducated, we are providers in
80% of households, we are oftenthe primary caregivers, and yet
we are the poorest of everyother ethnic group except Native
(09:27):
American.
We are often caught in the hardplace, and I hear you in your
survival story and the thingsthat you had to navigate and how
it became so crushing that youturned to substances and
underground economies Forabolitionist sanctuary.
Your survival story is a sourceof salvation that you are seen
(09:51):
in the image of the divine, nomatter what those survival
strategies were, because we knowthat this system is designed to
crush us, but there is a Godwho does not want to see us
destroyed, right, well, webelieve in the salvific value of
Black women's moral agency.
So thank you for sharing yoursurvival story, and particularly
(10:13):
the nuances of Black motherhood.
As we talk about your earlierchildhood, the role of your
family and Black motherhood inyour survival story, how does
this become the impetus for anew way of life?
Why did you establish thisorganization?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
After recycling in and out of the prison system,
october 4th of 1997, I foundhelp in Santa Monica, and in
Santa Monica there was thiselaborate buffet of services, of
(10:50):
social services, of support, ofwork, of love, of compassion,
of tolerance and patience.
And I began to think.
And I began to think why wasthat not available in South LA?
(11:20):
Why was I chained, stripped ofmy clothing, to work for eight
cents an hour in a prisonplantation, instead of given an
opportunity to eat from thebuffet of social services that
were in Santa Monica?
When they are caught with drugsin Santa Monica, they get to go
(11:40):
to treatment.
In Santa Monica they get to goto treatment, they get diverted
from prison, they get to do acommunity service.
They get a piece of paper froma judge that says go to
Alcoholics Anonymous.
(12:01):
No one ever told me there was asolution for the problem I had
acquired through substance use.
I began to understand that Iwasn't a bad person, I was a
harm person and I was copingwith the harm with what was
available.
(12:22):
See, we didn't have therapy inSouth LA.
We didn't have diversions.
There was Alcoholics Anonymousthere, but I didn't know about
Alcoholics Anonymous.
I didn't know.
I had the disease, of addiction.
I didn't know there were 12steps to help me.
When I found that out, itreally angered me that there was
(12:46):
no willingness to invest in aBlack woman full of potential
but also full of harm.
So when you discover somethinglike I discovered in Santa
Monica, I wanted to bring it toSouth LA.
(13:09):
I wanted to bring it back to mycommunity and I thought if I
just helped a handful of women,everything would change.
I worked and got a house andwent to the bus station where we
got off the bus and I wouldoffer my friend that I had been
(13:30):
in prison with a place to be, aplace where it was drug,
alcohol-free, a place that wassafe.
And then about six months therewas a house full of women
helping women and we created acommunity of healing and of help
for one another.
(13:50):
But then I discovered that therewas a much bigger problem.
It wasn't about a couple ofwomen, a nation and a system
within that nation that washell-bent on harming all of us,
keeping us oppressed, suppressedand existing, not thriving, not
(14:17):
living, not honoring who we are.
And I said this is a muchbigger problem than I thought.
And I said this is a muchbigger problem than I thought.
But that's when I began to geta little politicized and began
to look at the other isms of theworld.
No-transcript.
(14:49):
The cultures, especially Blackcultures, in this nation.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, thank you for sharing your story, and what you
are emphasizing is thesedisparities.
There's this double system ofjustice and the disparities that
construct Black women asunworthy and undeserving of the
resources needed to securequality of life and survive.
(15:18):
Whereas white people whoencounter misfortune in society
maybe breaks the law, they areconsidered redeemable right that
they can be treated, that theyare deserving of resources,
whereby Black women are justpunished and a system is thrown
at them and they carry theweight of mass incarceration.
(15:40):
Why these interventions areimportant and why you are a hero
to so many is you saw thosedisparities and responded with
action.
You didn't have much, you justwent with what you had to that
bus station, one woman at a time.
You were able to help, and nowyou have this thriving nonprofit
(16:00):
organization where you trainothers to create safe homes so
that they can start a new way oflife.
It's interesting how Blackwomen have limited options to
survive, but then when we doanything we have to do to make a
way out, of no way we'repunished and we're not given the
resources we need to heal or toreenter into society whole.
(16:24):
Tell us what is life like onthe inside for Black women and
what are the conditions and theharms, the perpetual harms that
happen on the inside?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Life is undignified for all people incarcerated.
But also inside of prison thereis this same level of racism,
classism and sexism.
Black people are given themanual labor jobs.
(16:57):
People with shortish sentencesare given the hardest work.
People with life sentences runthe prison.
They're the ones with theclerical jobs, with the admin
jobs, with the supervisory jobs.
(17:19):
But there's this level of dailyharm.
You lose all your sense ofidentity.
You lose all your sense ofself-direction.
You lose all your sense ofstyle.
You are always in fright modebecause you can't fight, because
(17:43):
that's punishable at anotherlevel.
You become quite submissive towhatever they want to do to you,
because if you're notsubmissive you incur harm.
But even when you aresubmissive, you are still being
(18:07):
harmed.
You have no control over yourbody.
It belongs to them, same waythe body of my ancestors
belonged to the plantation slavemaster.
They strip you and examine yourbody.
(18:28):
They feed you food that youcan't even really identify as
food.
I remember we go into thekitchen on chicken day, which is
something you could identifybecause it was the shape of a
(18:51):
chicken, but it smelled likeantibiotics.
It was just so horrificallydehumanizing.
And when I reflect that I'm likeyou killed my son.
You killed my son, this systemof policing, of corrections.
(19:22):
You killed my son and I triedto deal with his death and the
only thing that was available inmy community because it was
during the war on drugs thatsaturated my community with this
substance from out of nowhere.
You put this crap in mycommunity and I consume it and
(19:47):
then you try to kill me with it.
Jesus, you try to kill myspirit, my soul, like Andre say.
But then I rose up.
I rose like the day.
(20:08):
I rose up unafraid, and I woulddo it a thousand times, over
and over again, not only for me,but for every woman that
crossed my path.
I would rise up, I would helpher rise up and we would stand
and reclaim our dignity, ourpurpose, our meaning and our
(20:33):
life's goal, over and over again.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
It's kind of like they say you tried to bury us
but you didn't know we werescenes.
Yes, yes, wow, that is powerful.
I have chills, I'm moved totears.
I don't want to tell your story, and so I'm just going to
encourage people to buy thisbook.
Mrs Burton goes into detailabout her son and state violence
that stole him prematurely, andalso her own experience with
(21:09):
violence and overcoming, and sothis story of rising like a
phoenix from ashes is important,important to raise up the
values of resilience that comesfrom the survival stories of
Black women, because prisons andthe prison industrial complex
seeks to rob us of that storyand to tell the false narrative
(21:31):
that we are deviant, that we arebad, that we are undeserving of
dignity and civil and humanrights, when in fact we are
worthy.
We are worthy because we areborn in the image of the divine.
We are worthy because we areBlack women, not in spite of it,
and so I want to thank you foryour transparency, and I want to
thank you that you do not entera door alone, but you bring a
(21:54):
community with you, and withthat comes our liberation, and
this is why the project ofabolition is so important.
Right, because prisons don'twork.
Prisons do not keep us anysafer.
You mentioned the harms thatcontinue to reproduce in prisons
because of these systems ofracial capitalism, sexism,
(22:14):
classism, heteronormativity allthe things that the prison
systems are built on continue tohurt and harm the most
vulnerable.
Black women are 13% of the USpopulation, but 30% of persons
on the inside.
80% of women who areincarcerated are Black mothers.
Black women are among thefastest prison population and
(22:39):
oftentimes Black women are notthere because of violent crimes,
but for survival crimes relatedto drugs or substance abuse.
We carry this history apartwith sexual violence, right, and
so it is not a solution toimprison people who are victims
to an oppressive and violentsystem.
(22:59):
Instead, we need help andresources.
So thank you, mrs Burton.
I also want to know aboutreentry, right.
You told us about the inside.
What is the importance ofreentry?
If you could help explain thereentry process to us and how a
new way of life is a leader inthe reentry space.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
And train people, because we have a 94% success
rate, and one of the reasons forthat is that we extend love and
(23:43):
tolerance to people.
None of us are perfect.
We all make mistakes, and folkscan make mistakes in the
re-entry process also.
But how do we walk into that?
A woman comes to the way oflife.
We welcome her in, we providefamily unification services.
(24:05):
We have a workforce developmentdepartment.
We have all of the food,clothing and toiletries that's
needed, but most of all, weallow people to know that it's
all right for them to begin toheal and they can do it in their
(24:25):
time.
We have no time limits that saysyou have to leave in 30 days,
nine days a year.
Take your time to begin todream again.
Set your goals.
Let us know how we can supportyou toward those dreams.
If you want to go back toschool, let's get you back in
school.
(24:46):
If you want to get trained,let's get you trained.
Let's work.
If you want to work, let ushelp you get to work.
But it's like what is it thatyou want to do?
We don't tell people what theyshould do.
We do have a curfew.
You have to be in by 10 o'clockand you can be out on the
weekend.
We have morning meditation at 8am where we start our day.
(25:10):
We have a cook that comes inand prepares the evening meal,
because what is it like to walkin and you have the smell of
smothered chicken and grains andcornbread or barbecue or
spaghetti.
You know what is it like whenyou come in and you walk into a
home.
So that whole smell in the foodis really important.
(25:32):
So we have a cook that takesfood.
We now have 12 houses in SouthLA and I was walking in today
and there was a two-month-oldbaby and the mother was able to
come here to New Way of Life andbe safe while she's carrying
her baby and bringing the babyinto the world, safe and cared
(25:54):
for and supported.
She doesn't have to run out towork.
She can have time to bond withher baby, she can have time to
do what she needs to do andeverybody's fed and comfortable
and warm.
Or in California, they're cool.
We have two levels of housinghere the initial re-entry homes.
(26:21):
Where they come, they get theirIDs, they get accustomed, we
begin to build trust, we beginto establish you know what it is
that they want to do when theydo get to work or they enroll in
school.
They can move to ourindependent homes that are not
staffed and they just live thereand take care of the home, and
(26:41):
one of the things that reallyamazing is the women take care
of the home so well.
Well, they are grateful andappreciative to be in a place
where they are safe, protected,supported, encouraged, inspired
and loved.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, thank you.
That sounds amazing.
I want to come over for dinner.
It sounds amazing.
And you know, society wants usto think that Black Mother's
survival strategy somehow isdestroying the family.
What you are doing is you'reshifting the values of love and
(27:32):
tolerance.
These women will thrive, takecare of their homes, build
community and dream again.
And so what I really like aboutA New Way of Life is and it
gives me chills is that you aregiving the women what you wanted
, what did not get yourself, thesafety that you deserve, the
(27:55):
resources that you needed.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I think that you hit the nail right on the head.
I think about things that I wasnot affording, and what would
have happened had I beenaffording those things?
And so I can afford them now.
And so I can afford them now.
I can afford to give them, Ican afford to be there.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So yeah, wow, your story resonates me with so much.
I don't know what thisconnection is that I feel to you
.
But man, woof, but man.
(28:49):
So how does your faith groundyou and inspires you throughout?
Speaker 2 (28:51):
your challenges, trials and tribulations, but
also in the ways you areproviding a new way of life for
other women behind you.
I have faith that we areimportant.
I am important and you areimportant too.
I have faith that all I need tohelp you understand how
important you are will be givento me to extend to you.
(29:14):
I know that I am a vessel forGod's work in the universe and
that God doesn't run out.
All I have to do is be willingto stand and stay my course.
So I guess that's sort of anunshakable faith.
(29:35):
Yes, and it's not to say Idon't get off course, but I try
to stay on course and I try tostay available to be that vessel
.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Staying the course, being faithful.
How has the church been aconduit, a partner, a
co-conspirator in this work, andhow has the church been absent?
What can the church do better?
So both, how has it helped andhow does the church harm?
Speaker 2 (30:16):
How can it do better?
What can we do?
I think the church was a partof creating the problem of mass
incarceration.
Yes, problem of massincarceration.
Yes, I think they didn't knowanybody.
They were into the judgment andthe casting out and teaching
our community to separate fromone another and cast away from
(30:36):
each other.
But what I know is that thereare no throwaway people.
We are all valuable and some ofus have a responsibility to
help others to see past theirshortcomings and to their values
, now sees themselves ashistorically being a part of the
(31:04):
problem and are opening andthinking about how to be a part
of the solution.
So the teachings that you doaround ablational sanctuary
every church needs to be trainedin that.
They need to understand thatthere's more to knowing besides
(31:32):
you saving my soul, that's right, because don't try to save my
soul when my stomach is grindingempty, hungry, or you're
talking about my soul and Idon't have a place to sleep.
You got to do more than that.
(31:53):
My soul and my spirit and myphysical body.
Yes, you'll be nourished enoughto come back to be my righteous
best self, but I can't getthere when I'm thirsty and
(32:18):
you're not giving me water.
We have a ways to come, but thechurch is an exceptional
vehicle to turn this whole thingaround, as it was an
exceptional vehicle to be a partof creating it.
(32:41):
It's a responsibility I hold,it's a responsibility the church
holds, to begin to understandmore about this and step into a
new frame of thinking, being anddoing.
(33:01):
I met you at the church, drLabert, at a church where I was
coming to offer help to thefolks in Altadena who had been
burnt out of their home.
That's not my per se mission.
My mission is to be a vessel ofhope and help in my community.
(33:26):
So it's beyond just womencoming out of prison.
When I saw the devast ofresponse to them black folks in
Alton Dana I knew what they weregoing to experience and what
(33:49):
they're going through.
I was like God, what can we do?
How can we help?
So we were able to extend mensome support and, most of all,
the biggest support is like Isee you, I understand, I love
(34:10):
you and here's $500 for everyone.
Here is some household goods tohelp you, I shop for you, I
deliver them to your doorstepsand that's what we did,
especially for the seniors.
One woman she's 89, missbrennan.
(34:32):
She's still calling me she wantto come over and get some blue,
get some collard greens out mybackyard.
I'm like, come on and get somecollard greens they're're
abundant.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
I'm serious.
They're hard to find out here.
I want some.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Girl.
I got them.
I'll be here all weekend.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah, ms Burton, thank you.
The theology that you gave usspeaks of the difference between
Christianity that is religious,and following Jesus, who is a
revolutionary Right, and thisJesus, he's a first century
abolitionist.
How do we know this is becausehe said I've come to set the
(35:10):
captives free as followers ofthis revolutionary Jesus, who
was a brown Palestinian Jew anda first century abolitionist.
He says that we are to clothethe naked, give food to the
hungry, drink to the thirsty,heal the brokenhearted right,
and that is the mission and thework that you are doing and that
you are inviting the church toremember.
(35:30):
It is that we are supposed todo as vessels and disciples of
Jesus, this revolutionary.
So thank you for alsohighlighting the ways in which
Abolitionist Sanctuary isleading this work with our
trainings that people can accessat abolitionacademycom.
I also am grateful for how youshared about the Eaton Canyon
(35:51):
wildfires.
Abolitionist Sanctuary has alsogiven mortgage assistance to
Black mothers.
We created a prayer resourceguide where we joined 50 clergy
persons from around the countrythat people could call.
So people go to our website,access that guide and reach a
person in various religiousbeliefs the prayers for support
(36:12):
they need, as well as we'vegiven mutual aid fund in terms
of gift cards and directassistance.
So we do want to partner withchurches and with organizations
like yourself in these recoveryefforts.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Let me just say though, that the folks in
Altadena.
It's a long road forreconstruction for them, and we
must continue to support themwith prayer, with resources,
with whatever we can do.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Fifty-four families in our church lost their homes,
so when I saw you come throughthose doors, I knew that
something transformative wouldhappen.
I'm just so grateful that youare a vessel and that you use
your resources to bless others.
Thank you for the ways in whichyou blessed our congregation at
First AME Pasadena.
I'm curious.
(36:57):
You said what the church can doto help.
I'm curious to know what youthink about prison ministries,
both from the perspective ofbeing on the inside and for
women on the outside.
Are prison ministries welcomed?
Are they effective?
Can they be?
Speaker 2 (37:11):
better.
There's a wide range ofdifferent types of prison
ministries, from things likeprison fellowship from things
like prison fellowship.
What I know is that anytime wecan reach in and be with people
that it's important.
If we don't reach in and bewith people, they will do
(37:35):
anything and everything to usand we will be abandoned and
left subject to such horrificharm.
So it's important to have themcommitted, supporting and
resourcing folks that needsupport and help, and it gives a
(37:56):
gathering place, I believe, forpeople who want to do something
but don't know how or what todo.
So prison ministries even ifyou're writing a letter to
someone, to know that there'ssomeone that is thinking about
them and someone they'reconnected to outside of that
(38:17):
prison getting together withlotions and panties and clothing
for people.
I remember wanting a decentpair of panties.
So bad, those things they gaveme were like diapers.
They were so big and thick andbulky and I remember just
wanting a nice pair, just forthe little panties.
(38:38):
You know what I'm talking aboutSome tiny panties.
So some of the things thatchurches can do with their
prison ministry is to beintentional about connection,
building community, bringing inresources, whether it's personal
hygiene, having hygiene forpeople when they get home, but
(39:00):
also keeping people connectedwith their children, making sure
children know that their mother, you know there's so much we
can do because that place hasdestroyed so much.
In connection, and again, love,tolerance and patience for
(39:21):
people.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Excellent Love, tolerance and patience.
Is there anything else you wantto share with us about what's
next for you?
Anything you want us to do tomake this book a New York Times
bestseller?
Well, you know, I just want tohave a little fun for us all
over with.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
I have a lot to give and offer.
I'm thinking about writinganother book about the safe
network because I create thesafe network after my book was
published.
I just continue to stayavailable so people can go to
our website, a newwayoflifeorg.
They can check us out, see howthey might want to support.
(40:02):
December 7th we're having a biggala.
October 4th we have a Justiceon Trial film festival here in
Los Angeles at Loyola MarymountUniversity.
They can come and be with us atour film festival.
We explore problems with thecriminal justice system through
(40:26):
film and we explore solutions tothat problem through film.
We have authors and speakers,so come out and share some time
with us, so come out and sharesome time with us.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
You heard Ms Burton Visit anewwayoflifeorg, where
you can find upcoming events andways to support a new way of
life organization and support anew film.
Here at Abolitionist Sanctuary,we are also raising funds for a
documentary to highlightstories like Mrs Burton and
other Singapore Black motherswho are struggling to survive
(41:04):
and overcome the stereotypes ofcriminalization and deviance.
So please visit us atabolitionsthanctuaryorg to learn
more about that documentaryproject as well and how you can
support it.
In closing, mrs Burton, we havesomething we call a rapid round
.
You did not see these words inadvance.
When I mention these words,tell me what's the first thing
(41:25):
that comes to mind.
I'm just going to shoot them atyou and you tell us what you
think.
John Legend.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Beautiful people Resistance.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
And who just sent you flowers.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Yeah, he sent me flowers.
John is a warrior, he's anangel warrior.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Safety.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
A new way of life.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Prisons.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Harm.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Black women Excellence Children.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Love.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Love.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Everybody.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Freedom Fight.
Abolitionist Sanctuary.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Powerful.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Thank you, Mrs Burton .
Thank you for joining thisconversation on the Abolitionist
Sanctuary podcast.
Please download and share onall platforms.
Again, I am your host, ReverendDr Nakia Smith-Robert, founder
and executive director ofAbolitionist Sanctuary.
Find us on YouTube, Instagram,Facebook and download our social
mobile app bringing togetherabolitionists and people who
(42:34):
love freedom.
Also, enroll in our courses andbecome certified at
abolitionacademycom.
Don't forget to become a memberand write our mailing list at
abolitionitionAcademycom.
Don't forget to remember andwrite our mailing list at
AbolitionIsSanctuaryorg.
As we conclude this episode,remember that abolition is not
only a practice, but it is a wayof life, and for me, abolition
is my religion.
Thank you so much.
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