March 4, 2025 • 43 mins
In this episode of About That Wallet, host Anthony Weaver chats with Dexter Zhuang, a Coast FIRE enthusiast who traded his tech career in San Francisco for a life of financial freedom with his wife. They dive into how to sync your money goals with what really matters to you and how cash is just a tool for living your best life.
Dexter shares his journey, from money talks with his wife to figuring out joint finances across countries. Get ready for some real talk on self-awareness in financial planning and tips for discussing money with your partner.
As the convo rolls on, Dexter highlights the need for flexibility in your financial choices, especially if you're eyeing a move abroad. He dishes out practical advice for aspiring expats and explores the cool personal finance tech out there today.
💬 Question of the Day: How do you align your financial goals with your personal values? Let us know in the comments!
💡 Want more from Dexter? Check out his website at https://www.theportfoliopath.com/
🔔 Don’t forget to subscribe and hit that notification bell for more awesome chats on financial wellness!
(00:00) Money is a tool
(00:45) Intro
(01:35) Achieving a financial milestone
(03:30) Personal finance before getting married
(10:19) Parents impacted your financial mindset
(15:19) Financial misconceptions
(16:55) Making money abroad
(19:12) Get Started today
(25:22) Technology and personal finance
(28:04) What areas of focus do you feel need improvement for yourself right now
(30:10) Renting versus owning?
(35:12) Last advice
(37:56) Final Four Questions
(42:33) More about Dexter
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episode 288
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Anthony Weaver (00:00):
This episode is sponsored by the
portfoliopath.com.
>> Dexter Zhang (00:04):
Of course, financial, uh, independence, uh, kind of came
into that conversation because the way
we view money is that it's a tool to help
you achieve whatever kind of life goal that you
have. For us, we care about that flexibility. But
for other people, maybe it's a certain level
of security that they want, or maybe they want to,
(00:25):
um, be able to, you know, take on a certain
kind of career path. Um, so we
see that, uh, for, for us, money is
a tool to achieve flexibility, but for other
families it may be, uh, or couples, it may be
different.
>> Anthony Weaver (00:45):
Welcome back, everybody, to another exciting show,
the about that Water podcast, where we help the Sam's
generation build strong financial habits so that you
can spend your money, talk about money, and
enjoy your money with conf. Today, I
have somebody who's been doing this for quite some
time and has achieved so many different things, but
(01:05):
also he has achieved
fire, which is financial independence and
retire early. His name is Dexter
Zhang. How you doing today, sir?
>> Dexter Zhang (01:16):
Doing well. Thanks for welcoming me onto the show,
Anthony. Uh, yeah, just a quick
clarification. Is your Coast Fire?
>> Anthony Weaver (01:23):
Oh, coast fire.
>> Dexter Zhang (01:24):
Okay, definitely, uh, so one,
one milestone, uh, on that journey. Uh,
not quite at that, uh, that bigger
milestone, but yeah, happy to share more.
>> Anthony Weaver (01:35):
Awesome. And one of the cool things
about, uh, this particular
topic is that,
um, it's something that everybody wants to achieve.
And so my main question to you
has your definition of success has evolved
since you've achieved such a great financial
milestone.
>> Dexter Zhang (01:57):
Great question, Anthony. Um, in the beginning,
when I was starting out my career, I was
in San Francisco. I
was working in tech there.
I, um, didn't
have a whole lot of money when I was starting out my professional, ah,
journey. But I was very
motivated and my main priorities
(02:19):
at that point was really to
learn the fundamentals of personal finance.
Uh, so while I was growing my career then I could
reinvest a high percentage of
my earnings into
investments. And I could
also, you know, focus on growing my,
um, my own skill set and grow my income
(02:41):
potential through my career. I think that that part was
really my main focus throughout my 20s,
now that I'm 33,
and, um, a couple years ago,
across this coast fire milestone. And that really
helped me just
be able to take a little bit of a step back, uh,
to understand what did I really value
(03:04):
in terms of my work and in terms of
my lifestyle and how did I want to spend my time,
um, more and more importantly. So my
journey has evolved a little bit past
this milestone because it gave Me a bit more
space and flexibility to
ask those questions for myself and then answer those questions of,
like, how do I want to spend my time? So, uh, that
(03:26):
flexibility, uh, is probably the biggest change for
me.
>> Anthony Weaver (03:30):
Nice. And because,
you know, you and your wife
have been dealing with this for quite some time, um,
how would those conversations happen? Like, when you
decided, like, hey, I really want to start
dealing and diving into this higher
community?
>> Dexter Zhang (03:51):
Yeah, that's a good question. So when
we first, uh, started
dating, you know, six, uh, six years ago, I
think personal finance came, uh, up.
But it wasn't until maybe like a few
years into, uh, that the relationship that we started
really talking about this, um,
more deeply because we, you
(04:13):
know, we're talking about, okay, should we open up, uh,
joint bank accounts, shared accounts?
>> Anthony Weaver (04:19):
I know.
>> Dexter Zhang (04:19):
We started getting deeper into, uh,
the rabbit hole for context as well. I'm
American. My wife is Australian. Um, we met
in Singapore. Uh, so our
finances were also a little bit more
complicated. And
when we start talking about it, then,
uh, we had to go down the rabbit hole
(04:42):
of, uh, really, uh,
planning out what we wanted to do, uh,
in terms of finances, uh, because
there were
more variables when you're bringing
together, um, bank accounts from different
countries, like investment accounts, uh, from different
countries. Um, we started talking
(05:04):
about that. And then, of course, financial, um,
independence, uh, kind of came into
that conversation. Because the way we
view money is that it's a tool to help you
achieve whatever kind of life goal that you
have. For us, we care about that flexibility. But
for other people, maybe it's a, ah, certain level
(05:24):
of security that they want, or maybe they want to,
um, be able to, you know, take on a certain
kind of career path. Uh, so
we see that, uh, for. For us,
money is a tool to achieve flexibility. But for
other families, it may be, uh, or couples, it may
be different.
>> Anthony Weaver (05:45):
That makes sense because, you know,
you had a discussion. You all had a discussion right
before you guys decided to get married. What
would that like? Like, how was that
conversation leading up to. To the big day to
say, like, hey, um,
I. I would like to be with you, like,
(06:06):
and. And like, I want to share my money with
you. Uh, do you guys do, like, separate accounts
or what was. What was those discussions
like?
>> Dexter Zhang (06:16):
For sure. I think, uh, the first step of this was
we. We were in Singapore during COVID and
that's when we started,
um, you know, talking about, hey,
maybe we should open up, like, a joint accounts for our
shared expenses. Right. Uh, because we would buy
groceries together. We would, you know, uh,
(06:36):
spend on rents, uh, together. Right?
And these things were all joint. And previous to that, we were using
an application called Splitwise.
If uh, you're not already familiar with Splitwise, it's
like a, uh, really simple mobile app for you to like, share
expenses with your friends or with uh, your loved
ones. And it requires you to log
(06:56):
every expense. Right. So,
uh, I think the where.
Where push uh, came to shove moment was like we
kind of got tired of having to log all the
expenses in split wise.
And you know,
I'm a little bit embarrassed to say this, but I'm kind of like,
uh, like, Like a tracker, right? So I'm like,
(07:18):
oh, can we just track everything in split wise? And she's
like, it was like a $5, you know, thing, or it was like
a two, three dollar coffee. Like, is that really
needed? And then we had to like, agree on, okay,
maybe like things below $10. You don't have to track it and
split wise. But, you know, it just kind of
became a hassle. Whereas if we
(07:38):
could, uh, create a joint account, then we
could, ah, on a monthly basis, just
transfer in a certain amount and
then, um, and
then spend from that joint account and not really
think about it, uh, too much. Uh, so
that. That was, I think one of the
big kind of conversations that we had and
(08:00):
then taking a step forward in terms of
sharing our finances. And then I think the
next kind of big
kind of conversations that we had
leading up to that as well was like, okay, how do, how do we
decide how much we're contributing, you know, to
our joint account? And um, I'm
sure this, you know, different for every. Every couple that you've,
(08:22):
uh, spoken with. But in the beginning, we
actually started off with
splitting, um, it evenly, like half, half, half.
But this kind of became a issue. Like
this was a mistake more on my part because
we were making different levels of income and at that
point in time I was making more than her. And so,
(08:44):
uh, it felt like it
wasn't a, um, kind of like a fair,
uh, system for
how we've decided to contribute to this joint account.
So yeah, there were some,
um, discussions there, heated
discussions there. And eventually I realized,
(09:05):
okay, we. We can't do this split thing.
Um, this isn't working for us.
So, uh, we divided
the um, like our contributions
up based on our income level,
right? Like our income divided by
like the total household income. That became like our contribution
to uh, the. The joint
(09:27):
account. And that, uh, worked for us.
Yeah. Of course, every couple
decides to do it a little bit differently. For us, that
worked out. We were happy with,
um, that setup.
>> Anthony Weaver (09:41):
Okay, so I'll take it. You lost that argument.
>> Dexter Zhang (09:45):
Yeah. Uh, yeah. You
want to simplify it to that? That's totally cool.
Yes.
>> Anthony Weaver (09:53):
Like, I'm sorry, babe.
Uh, uh, yes.
>> Dexter Zhang (09:58):
Well, now I think it's a great idea. Now I think it's. Yeah, just
a sm. It just makes
sense.
>> Anthony Weaver (10:04):
Yeah. And you know, that's one of the things that
we kind of leave out a lot. It's more than the
numbers that kind of drive everything. It's also like,
how do we actually want to live with each other and if we want
to bring somebody on into that journey?
Um, and so obviously she's dealing with
her background and you're dealing with your background. Um,
(10:25):
when it comes to finances, uh,
how has your parents impacted
your decision making for
finances?
>> Dexter Zhang (10:37):
Oh, so I
come from. I'm a second generation,
um, immigrant to uh, the
States. My parents, um, are from
China originally. My dad initially, um,
moved from, uh, Shanghai to Canada for
graduate school with like $300 in his pocket.
(10:57):
So I think they came from a bit more
of like the scrappy, underdog kind of
immigrant, um, you know, journey.
And because of that growing up, I think,
um, you know, for better, for worse, they. They
wanted to be frugal and they wanted to be very
mindful about, uh, the spending and
(11:18):
expensive side of things. And
that's, uh, you know,
kind of continued, I think in terms
of how they, uh,
they perceive money or their relationship with money.
Things have changed a little bit over time now that
they're retired, they're, you know, going to resorts
(11:38):
in Mexico and you know, spending on travel
with friends. So they are definitely spending
on what they're enjoying a whole lot more.
But I think in terms of, um,
how that has evolved, their relationship
with me is like, they obviously want the best for
me and they care
(11:58):
about, uh, how,
uh, me and my wife, how we're thinking about personal
finances and having a plan in place
and um, making sure
that, you know, um, we're going to
be taken care of, uh, while we're going to be able to take care of ourselves.
Um, I think there are. Fortunately,
(12:19):
you know, when it comes to the relationship with
me and my parents, I, um, don't think there's a
whole lot of expectation, um,
necessarily around,
you know,
got to take care of their retirement or the, you know, there's not
that expectation, uh, for sure.
Would they appreciate me helping out?
(12:41):
Yes, um, I'm sure they would.
Uh, but I do feel,
uh, fortunate in that, you know, they have
explicitly at least, at least said, like, don't worry
about us, uh, we got the
retirement covered. Uh, so far.
Um, so that, that's, uh, been a
conversation at least we've had.
>> Anthony Weaver (13:03):
And that's really good that you guys are having that open
discussion, because when it comes to
retirement, a lot of the times the parents are
usually hesitant on even opening up about
their finances. Um, how did you all,
ah, got to that so comfortable talking
about it. Like, uh, what, how did you even start that
conversation?
>> Dexter Zhang (13:24):
Well, to be candid, we haven't talked about
like, you know, super detailed, uh,
you know, they haven't shared like, their financial plan or,
uh, or anything like that. But
they did share kind of,
um, how they're feeling about
their finances, how they were feeling about their plan,
(13:45):
um, where do they feel comfortable
and where they don't. Uh, so I
think it was a
evolution. When I first
started out working
and kind of taking care of my own career growth
and finances.
My parents started sharing a little bit more about
(14:08):
their own journey and their
progress in personal finances and how they've
thought about it. Uh, but it probably wasn't until
more recently, you know, now
that my wife and I are married and now that
my parents are retired, that we're both kind of like in a stage
of life where,
(14:28):
um, they're more openly
sharing, you know, m, what, what they're
planning for in the future because they understand, like, we're trying to make our
plans as well, and they don't want to feel
like they're in the way of any of those plants.
>> Anthony Weaver (14:42):
Nice. Okay.
>> Dexter Zhang (14:44):
Yeah. So I think that's probably the
main trigger. Um,
uh, more and more. Yeah, they, they, they want us to
feel like we have our own level of
independence and ability to
take, um, control of our life decisions.
>> Anthony Weaver (15:01):
That makes sense because you're focusing
on others, helping them out with their money
path. And I'm always curious how it is when it
comes to family and one of those things. Family
members always look at you like, okay, well, here you
go talking about money again. Like, can we talk about something
else?
Like, so, uh, uh, so what
(15:22):
are the biggest misconceptions that people have about
aligning their finances with their values?
>> Dexter Zhang (15:29):
Oh, um, biggest
misconceptions for
me, um, I, I, I would say that
a lot of people that I see
when they want to talk about money, it's
really a,
um, more black and white kind of kind of measure. Right?
It's like, oh, you have either a lot of money or you
(15:51):
don't. And that's Kind of the perception
of talking about money and personal
finances. But
um, I think what's really underrated
is the self awareness of what
you value. Right.
And ultimately whatever you spend on is just
a reflection of whatever you value.
(16:13):
But reflecting on your values
takes a lot of work. It actually takes some time,
takes some effort. Maybe that looks like doing some
reflection. Maybe that looks like trying out different
career paths. It's different for everyone.
But I think that exercise of
continuing to iterate, like your
(16:34):
own understanding of your values is kind of like
this foundational piece that then you
can put um,
like whatever kind of personal finance lesson on top of that.
Kind of like a building block. Um, and
money is that lens. Right. That your, your
values really looks through.
>> Anthony Weaver (16:54):
Nice.
>> Dexter Zhang (16:55):
Okay.
>> Anthony Weaver (16:56):
That's a good way of doing it and I appreciate you sharing
that because you know, some of our money
values actually come from when we're children. And I'm
glad that you were able to open up about
your upbringing during that process.
Um, so you ultimately come up with
this cool product called like Money
(17:17):
Abroad. What is it?
>> Dexter Zhang (17:21):
Definitely Money Abroad started off
as a money newsletter
for expats or people living abroad. And that was a
reflection of my own personal um,
experiences. Uh, moving from
the US to uh, Singapore
after. Yeah, pretty pretty much like
(17:41):
most of my adult life. Um, up
to that point I was, I was
20. 28.
Yeah, 28 or so. Uh, when I made that
move. And what
that's really showed me
was like oh, wow, money kind of gets
complicated when you're overseas. And that's how I initially
(18:03):
started that newsletter. But over
time it has evolved, uh, a little bit,
has attracted people who are also non, non ah,
expats. But they're excited
about uh, carving out a,
um, way to live on their own terms.
Tends to be people who are
maybe you know,
(18:26):
seven to 15 years of um,
experience into their careers and they're trying
to figure out, okay, what next? Um,
after the point of maybe
you're thinking about starting a family or maybe
you're realizing that you're
not um, interested in walking the same career path
(18:47):
for too much longer, then it's like
okay, what next can you do? Um, and
that's why I talk about Coast Fire as one of these
topics, uh, and talk about portfolio
careers and kind of introduce different
alternatives, uh, for people in the
newsletter that makes sense.
>> Anthony Weaver (19:05):
Especially what's going on today. And
as a recent event, a lot of people are looking to become
expats.
What is the, I guess you could say what are
the, the main steps that somebody can
do right now to kind of prepare
themselves if they thinking about going abroad or living
abroad.
>> Dexter Zhang (19:26):
Totally. I think the biggest
blocker for a lot of people is
understanding.
Um, you know, if. If
you're just an individual at this point,
uh, then you just got to think about your own
career path. And then you got to figure out, like, okay, how
does your career path translates to
(19:48):
something overseas? Right.
And then if you have another, uh, if you have a
partner, then, uh, that means also translating, like,
what they're doing career wise into
something overseas. And finding
kind of the intersection of that can be a
little bit, uh, can be a little bit tricky if you
have, uh, specific kind of career
(20:11):
goals. However, if you're more
flexible or if you're fortunate and there's
like, certain cities that just like, really map really well
with what you're trying to do, then
that can work out, like, that can be feasible. An
example of this would be for, uh, me. I'm in
Mexico City now, but before we were in
Singapore, and, uh, that was a great
(20:33):
intersection of. My wife is Australian. A lot of
Australians moved to Singapore for career opportunities. Anyways,
thanks. Um, so that was
a, you know, good next step
for, for her. And then for me, I
was interested in living in Southeast, uh,
Asia. And there were, you know, uh, in
(20:54):
terms of my industry, there were a lot of opportunities
in terms of the tech industry at the time, um, in
Singapore. So there was that kind
of happy intersection for us that happened
there. Uh, for others, it might be, uh, different. I
think I saw you had, uh, Stephanie on your podcast.
Yeah, yeah. Um, we met at fincon as
(21:16):
well, and Stephanie's a great example of,
you know, um, the Portugal expat community and,
you know, lifestyle in
Portugal kind of being a match for
what her and husband, um, were
looking for.
>> Anthony Weaver (21:32):
Nice. Because, I mean, we try
to figure out, like, how do we actually make money?
You know, when you're.
>> Dexter Zhang (21:39):
Exactly.
>> Anthony Weaver (21:40):
And exactly. Do you teach
somebody, um, English or
usually. That's usually the one that everybody go to. And I'm
like, okay, do something.
>> Dexter Zhang (21:50):
Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, that's. That tends to be
like a recent college grad, maybe 22 or
something. Great, great,
great. You know, starting point for a lot of
people. Um, definitely not knocking
English teachers, uh, you know, in South Korea or
something. I think it's really cool. Um, but, yeah,
(22:11):
probably not, like, if you're. If you have a family, if you're,
you know, in your 30s or, uh, 40s,
looking to make a transition. So
definitely, you know, figuring out how you're going
to make money like the career path, seeing if your career path
can continue to extend overseas. I think it's
quite important. Um, and if
you can take a look at your particular industry
(22:34):
and see like are there any cities where your industry is
pretty prominent then you
might find some m. Happy
overlaps. So I know for example in
terms of um, you know the tech industry,
because I've been in this industry for
a decade, is that there's several global
cities um, that now
(22:56):
have uh, thriving
kind of tech ecosystems and they want
to invest further into it. So
places like uh, London,
um, is one example that is I've
known several um,
people working in the tech industries either as
(23:16):
professionals or as founders moving there
in Asia. Of course Singapore is uh, an
example of that. Ah so those
are some um, potential examples. Um
Mexico City as well there are
um, as a hub for Latin
America it's becoming
more um, attractive for
(23:39):
tech, uh, companies kind of like base their operations
there, uh, uh, for the Spanish speaking part of
Latin America. So those are some examples
of how uh,
when you take a look at your industry you might find like a few
cities that are quite good for your
industry and then um, you can
maybe visit, you know, talk to some people, get a sense on
(24:02):
the ground as well. So for
example when um, my wife and
I were considering moving to Singapore, I had already visited
before and then I spent some time networking
like I did a couple trips in
addition just to network and
meet people, uh, working in an
(24:22):
industry that I want to work in.
And uh, I learned a lot from
those conversations because the reality is
like most of the time the information you
see on the Internet is like totally out of date or it's just not
always like an accurate reflection of what's happening
um, on the ground. So uh,
(24:42):
actually going, meeting people, having conversations,
um, or if you can't visit, you know, having at
least doing outreach to uh,
to potential ah, people are kind of in
a similar role in your target
city. Or maybe a super connector, like someone who
is really um, like ah, like a community
(25:03):
manager or a community leader. Right. Um, in, in
that city. I think it's a great person to, to connect
with and that can, that can
be helpful to get some feedback on um, how
is like the job market doing. What are the
opportunities for someone like with a, with a background
like me? Those kind of questions.
>> Anthony Weaver (25:22):
Yeah, and you've been doing,
I say yes, traveling is awesome
but also you gotta get a means to, to why you want to
travel, um, but also in your
journey you've done so much in
tech. Where do you see the
tech industry when it comes to financial
tech that's going to help out the people, the everyday person
(25:44):
that's really pinching pennies right now.
>> Dexter Zhang (25:49):
Definitely. So I think on
one hand, uh, you know, you're
seeing obviously like more
uh, technologies. Uh, technology
is always changing. Right. And because of that the
tools that we have are always changing.
Uh, personal finance is
(26:09):
one kind of area
where those tools, uh, change really rapidly. They're
getting so much easier to use from a consumer
standpoint. I think in terms of managing
finances, 15 years ago,
10 plus years ago, I think all
I can really think of using at that point in
(26:30):
time was mint. But now there's like,
you know, so, so many different options. Right. So it's
I think a great time for consumers
of these tools. So
a lot of these tools are pretty low costs as
well. Uh, or like the, the cost
of using these personal finance tools are also
(26:51):
getting um, less and
less. And,
and it's not just the tools for managing finances. It's
also the um,
investment tools, the uh,
funds for investments. Uh, so
example this would be like Vanguard is continuing to reduce their,
their fees. I think they just announced they reduced their fees
(27:13):
again, um, right. Over time. And
I think that's something that anyone can take
advantage of. Right. Uh, those, those
um, reduced fee kind of opportunities for
investments.
>> Anthony Weaver (27:27):
That's good. Um, because I, I just want people to know.
Well, I want the person that's listening right now to know that
you do have what it takes. I mean it's right there at your
fingertips. Just gotta press the button.
>> Dexter Zhang (27:39):
Exactly, exactly. So the tool, the tools are there,
uh, the, you know,
investments are there with low fees
are there. And yeah, it's
really, it's really um, up to you
to you know, do, do some light research on
like what, what it is, you know, fits your particular
goals. But they're definitely accessible,
(28:02):
um, at this point in time.
>> Anthony Weaver (28:03):
Yeah.
So this is about you though. Like what areas
of focus that you feel
needs the most improvement for yourself?
>> Dexter Zhang (28:14):
Oh, good. Uh, question.
So I think in terms of,
um, in terms of,
you know, life stage, my wife and I
are kind of at the stage where, you know, we don't have kids yet. We
haven't really thought of,
uh, you know, plan too far ahead, of
(28:36):
course, but we do want to like, be financially
prepared. Uh. Right. Like
if and when we do have kids, uh, then
don't want to be totally like blindsided by all
that. And then I think the other thing.
Exactly. Uh, and then I think the other thing is just figuring
out like, you know, because she's Australian, I'm
American, we're living in Mexico City.
(28:58):
The question we always get is like, where are you going to end up?
You know, where you were going to,
uh, put roots? Like that kind of question.
And. Well, I think it's a very
valid question. Uh, because
of our background, I
think we're a bit more flexible in terms of, in terms of
location and um, in terms
(29:20):
of the lifestyle that comes with that. Uh, but
I think that is something we
want uh, to figure out at least on a year
by year, like a shorter time frame kind of horizon.
Maybe let's say next two to three years. Okay. Like this,
this kind of chunk of time. Um,
whereas some people want to plan out much longer. It's like,
okay, next, like 20 years, like we want to be here.
(29:43):
Right. Um,
so those areas, the
family planning and also
planning, um, out, okay, location wise, where,
where do we want to like,
uh, let's say, uh,
open up accounts or figure out our cost of living? Like
those, those kind of questions are impacted
(30:05):
by where we're going to be for the
next two or three years.
>> Anthony Weaver (30:09):
That makes sense.
So that brings up the question then, how are
you feeling about renting versus owning?
>> Dexter Zhang (30:17):
Great question.
So I'm going to be own bias because
my life has been overseas
and definitely been shaped
by the
desire for flexibility and
mobility. So while I
(30:38):
think earlier in my career I
was interested in potentially uh,
buying at, at that stage,
especially I think in the middle 2000 and tens, it seemed
to make a lot of sense or I had a lot of
peers, like friends, colleagues
signing to buy at that um, point in time. Uh,
(31:00):
but for me I realized, okay, well, if I'm
gonna try this moving abroad thing,
which, you know, first started off as a travel sabbatical and then
move and then actually moving overseas after I realized like,
oh, this is actually kind of nice, I, I like this.
Then I discovered, well, it might
not be totally worth it, right. From
(31:23):
a financial perspective and from a lifestyle
perspective if I'm not living in that
home, so I'm not really using it and I have to rent it out.
Um, but then I have to also
consider the operational pieces of it
putting uh, the sweat of figuring out what
happens when things go wrong, who's going to deal with it,
(31:43):
how to get a property manager in that area, that kind
of thing. So
um, long story short, I am,
I, I prefer renting. And
the main, yeah, the main thing for me and
my wife is that ah, ah, Flexibility. So
Kenley, I mean, my wife also has, ah, um,
(32:04):
uh, property in Australia. But even
still, uh, that was like, from before we
got married. And um, I don't think
we're totally tied to the
idea of like, keeping it for forever or anything like that.
>> Anthony Weaver (32:18):
Hey, I mean, this is why it's the features. I like having this
open discussion because a lot of people are
at that point now. It's like, hey, we have our
foundation nice and solid. So
what now? And you're a perfect
example of like, hey, we don't know what's going to happen
next, but at least within the next two years there'll be something.
>> Dexter Zhang (32:41):
Exactly, exactly. We, yeah, we, we do consider
that, that downside risk. And
what we want to avoid is
a situation where, let's
say, oh, we have to move because,
uh, our, our parents are, you know, not
feeling well. That that's a real possibility. Um,
(33:02):
well, they're healthy now, of course, but, you know, just,
just in case. And in that
scenario, then if we had a
property that we had
purchased and we had the mortgage and the loan
payments, um,
that would probably restrict our mobility and restrict
our flexibility. Unless if we like, rent it out. But then we have
(33:24):
to then go through the whole process of,
um, getting property manager, like, figuring
out the operational, operational, uh, uh, side of
it. So that's what we wanted
to avoid and give ourselves a bit more
breathing room.
>> Anthony Weaver (33:41):
Yeah. And considering you're selling your 30s,
which is a great way to kind of like you
starting to slow down a little bit from when in your 20s, you
were just all over the place. Uh, and it's a good way to do
it. I mean, I wouldn't mind if. I would
say I'm not sure how this show will
evolve, but if the show was still here in 10
years, I would love to actually have you back on and be like, you know,
(34:03):
we did wind up doing all the things.
>> Dexter Zhang (34:09):
I love that. Yeah, that would be fantastic. And
I don't know if you've done this for, uh,
previous, uh, podcast guests, but I think that's a great idea just
to, uh, show like, hey, we talked about these topics. Let's
take a look, you know, few years later, what actually
happens in their life?
>> Anthony Weaver (34:26):
Well, I can tell you a lot of the people that I interviewed during my
first season, they no longer have that business. And I
can't even find them on social. So
they, uh, dismantled. So it's very
few of them has continued on. And my podcast
is only coming up on five years. So
it's wow to See, that's really interesting.
Yeah. And I try to send them emails but it's good like you
(34:48):
know, that uh, the 404 error. And I'm
like, I at least wanted to at least come back
on to at least say what happened.
>> Dexter Zhang (34:56):
But
ah, that would be a
really great episode if you do manage to get them
back on. Maybe we'll see them at
fincon and I, I can help.
>> Anthony Weaver (35:10):
Maybe.
>> Dexter Zhang (35:11):
Yeah.
>> Anthony Weaver (35:12):
Um, so is there anything that you want to
leave the audience with before we dive into the final four questions?
>> Dexter Zhang (35:20):
I m. Think uh, just to
summarize what we had uh, talked about a little
bit earlier, I want to emphasize
that it really helped, uh, me and my wife
did the exercise to figure out, you
know, what we viewed as our top values.
And fortunately a lot of them were aligned, uh,
(35:41):
which is great. And that really helped us
get clarity on how do
we, how do we approach like work more intentionally, how
do we approach money, uh, more
intentionally, uh, and prioritize,
you know, how, how we want to save and invest,
uh, for, for different things. An example of this is like
(36:01):
so when my wife and I got married, we
had a couple smaller banquets in
uh, Singapore, in Sydney and in Shanghai
with our family members and some extended family
and um, you know, a few friends here,
here and there. But we didn't do like a really, really big
wedding because uh, neither of
us really prioritized that as like, oh,
(36:24):
we really, really want to have like a huge wedding
celebration. I mean in the future we would like to maybe
do like a uh, do like an anniversary
party with a group of friends and that would be really fun.
Um, but instead what we did
with, you know, what we would have spent on a
wedding, we put it put away for a
honeymoon. So later, you know, we'll take
(36:47):
a really nice honeymoon to do like a safari in Tanzania
and like go to Hawaii and like that. That
doesn't really put any pressure on us financially because we
already had allocated that, um, and
we're pretty excited for it and looking forward
to making that happen. But that required
us to make some trade offs right in terms
(37:07):
of um, what it is we wanted. And
that started with the values.
>> Anthony Weaver (37:12):
That is awesome that you guys were on the same page with
that and hopefully that
uh, the person that's listening is really
taking note on.
Hey, it doesn't have to be done all at once.
You can have everything but just not at the same time.
You'll get it.
>> Dexter Zhang (37:30):
Exactly, exactly. Well
said. Yeah, we can do a party,
maybe not, you know, for
the wedding itself, but Maybe in, like, a few years, do an
anniversary party, Something like that.
>> Anthony Weaver (37:45):
Yeah. Well, you ready for the final four
questions?
>> Dexter Zhang (37:48):
Yeah, let's do it, Anthony. Let it rip.
>> Anthony Weaver (37:50):
All right,
next. They're ready.
So, number one, um, what does
wealth mean to you?
>> Dexter Zhang (38:01):
Wealth? For me?
Yeah. It used to traditionally mean, like, just having tons of money,
but now, uh, the older I get
and maybe, you know, 10 years later when,
uh, we revisit this, it'll sound different. Is that
in my 30s, it really is about flexibility. It's. It's about
giving me some control over my time
(38:24):
and, uh, flexibility and not
having to worry, uh, too much about,
uh, about how I'm spending money.
>> Anthony Weaver (38:33):
Perfect. Number two, what
was your worst money mistake?
>> Dexter Zhang (38:38):
For me, you know, I
started investing when I think I was
18, and I just got into college, and I opened
up a brokerage at E Trade, and
I just picked a couple stocks and, you know,
started started, um, investing that
way. And then it wasn't until, like, maybe a couple years
later, I learned about index funds. And I was like,
(39:01):
oh, this is a much smarter way, uh,
to. To do this. And I thought that
afterwards I kind of figured it out. I was like,
oh, well, I just invest in boring index
funds. And that's, like, pretty simple. But what I didn't
expect is how, uh, emotional investing
is. And inevitably, you know,
over the past, uh, like
(39:24):
12 years or so since then, I've still,
like, felt the. Felt the attraction of,
like, oh, maybe it's, like, speculating on, um,
certain stocks. Or maybe. Maybe it's like,
oh, crypto bull run.
>> Anthony Weaver (39:37):
Why.
>> Dexter Zhang (39:37):
Why are all my friends talking about it? Maybe. Maybe I should,
like, you know,
put more than I should into. Into some of that.
Um, so I think speculation is
still the worst money mistake, but
it's also one that I realized, like, it
can keep hap. Like, it can keep coming up
(39:58):
in different forms or shapes.
>> Anthony Weaver (40:00):
That is awesome. Uh, that you look. You do
a lot of reflection on yourself. It seems like you
do almost like an annual, at least a monthly reflection on
yourself just based on your response.
Wish I had that intuition when I was your age.
Number, uh, three. Is there a book that
(40:21):
inspired your journey or changed your perspective?
>> Dexter Zhang (40:25):
All right, so the book that,
um, really inspired my, uh, expat journey
and how I thought about personal finances, uh, as
an expat is one called Millionaire Expat. It's by
Andrew Halen, and he built a
million dollar plus investment portfolio even as a school
teacher overseas. So I thought that was really cool.
(40:45):
Um, and I liked his personal Journey
of how he learned about investing by investing
on the side and how
he also talks a lot about, like, as an American, when you're
overseas, there's like, certain tax implications or a lot
of questions that come up. It's like, how do I invest
while overseas? Should I use my home brokerage? Should
(41:05):
I use a brokerage in, uh, this new country?
And all those nitty gritty questions
he dives into. So if you're
someone who is looking to,
uh, move overseas or kind of wants to learn more about
what investing is like when, uh, when
that's your life situation, then Millionaire
Expat is a potentially good book for
(41:28):
you.
>> Anthony Weaver (41:29):
Awesome. Number four,
what is your favorite dish to make?
>> Dexter Zhang (41:35):
Uh, recently my wife and I bought a instant
pot. That's like a nine. Nine in one instant
pot. The ninja. Uh,
you're nodding your head. Maybe you know it, but air
fryer in it. Okay. Air fryer. Uh,
saute. It's got everything. Anyways,
uh, one of our, yeah, favorite things to make,
(41:55):
uh, with it is, uh, a chili. It's like a 20,
20 minute chili. You know, you just throw in, um,
you know, all the, uh, all the minced meat.
Uh, you know, we use beef here, and then
you can saute it in the same pot that you later.
Then, uh, use the pressure cooker to, uh, make the chili
all in 20 minutes. And I, I feel like
(42:16):
it's. It's just the best because you can do it
on Sunday night, and then you get pretty much your
meals for the rest of the week.
>> Anthony Weaver (42:24):
That's amazing. All right. I might have to, um.
I had to try that out one day.
>> Dexter Zhang (42:30):
Yeah, thanks for saying
it.
>> Anthony Weaver (42:33):
Uh, so this is the last question of the show, which is
where could people find out more about you?
>> Dexter Zhang (42:40):
Absolutely. You can go to
moneyabroad, uh, co,
and there you can, uh, find all
my contact information and, uh,
more information about what I'm working on.
>> Anthony Weaver (42:53):
Right. Thank you so much, Dexter, for all of
your information, all of your personal
stories. I know we didn't dive into all the businesses and
everything like that. Y'all can go to the other platforms that he's been
on to talk about that fun stuff, but we are here to
learn more about the man behind all of
the cool things that you've been doing. Um, and I just want
(43:14):
to congratulate you on all of the things that you've been
doing, uh, especially when it comes to
helping people out with personal finance. And as you heard,
everybody, like, you have what it takes. You
just got to really take time out to do your research
and really understand what it is that you want out of life
so that you can align your finances for it.
So I wish you all the best if you need to. If you
(43:37):
didn't get anything out of this one, but you think somebody else would listen
to this, definitely slide it on over to, um, them,
because they could actually help them out as well.
So thank you so much. Y'all have a great
day. We out.
This episode is sponsored by the
portfoliopath.com.
>> Dexter Zhang (00:04):
Of course, financial, uh, independence, uh, kind of came
into that conversation because the way
we view money is that it's a tool to help
you achieve whatever kind of life goal that you
have. For us, we care about that flexibility. But
for other people, maybe it's a certain level
of security that they want, or maybe they want to,
(00:25):
um, be able to, you know, take on a certain
kind of career path. Um, so we
see that, uh, for, for us, money is
a tool to achieve flexibility, but for other
families it may be, uh, or couples, it may be
different.
>> Anthony Weaver (00:45):
Welcome back, everybody, to another exciting show,
the about that Water podcast, where we help the Sam's
generation build strong financial habits so that you
can spend your money, talk about money, and
enjoy your money with conf. Today, I
have somebody who's been doing this for quite some
time and has achieved so many different things, but
(01:05):
also he has achieved
fire, which is financial independence and
retire early. His name is Dexter
Zhang. How you doing today, sir?
>> Dexter Zhang (01:16):
Doing well. Thanks for welcoming me onto the show,
Anthony. Uh, yeah, just a quick
clarification. Is your Coast Fire?
>> Anthony Weaver (01:23):
Oh, coast fire.
>> Dexter Zhang (01:24):
Okay, definitely, uh, so one,
one milestone, uh, on that journey. Uh,
not quite at that, uh, that bigger
milestone, but yeah, happy to share more.
>> Anthony Weaver (01:35):
Awesome. And one of the cool things
about, uh, this particular
topic is that,
um, it's something that everybody wants to achieve.
And so my main question to you
has your definition of success has evolved
since you've achieved such a great financial
milestone.
>> Dexter Zhang (01:57):
Great question, Anthony. Um, in the beginning,
when I was starting out my career, I was
in San Francisco. I
was working in tech there.
I, um, didn't
have a whole lot of money when I was starting out my professional, ah,
journey. But I was very
motivated and my main priorities
(02:19):
at that point was really to
learn the fundamentals of personal finance.
Uh, so while I was growing my career then I could
reinvest a high percentage of
my earnings into
investments. And I could
also, you know, focus on growing my,
um, my own skill set and grow my income
(02:41):
potential through my career. I think that that part was
really my main focus throughout my 20s,
now that I'm 33,
and, um, a couple years ago,
across this coast fire milestone. And that really
helped me just
be able to take a little bit of a step back, uh,
to understand what did I really value
(03:04):
in terms of my work and in terms of
my lifestyle and how did I want to spend my time,
um, more and more importantly. So my
journey has evolved a little bit past
this milestone because it gave Me a bit more
space and flexibility to
ask those questions for myself and then answer those questions of,
like, how do I want to spend my time? So, uh, that
(03:26):
flexibility, uh, is probably the biggest change for
me.
>> Anthony Weaver (03:30):
Nice. And because,
you know, you and your wife
have been dealing with this for quite some time, um,
how would those conversations happen? Like, when you
decided, like, hey, I really want to start
dealing and diving into this higher
community?
>> Dexter Zhang (03:51):
Yeah, that's a good question. So when
we first, uh, started
dating, you know, six, uh, six years ago, I
think personal finance came, uh, up.
But it wasn't until maybe like a few
years into, uh, that the relationship that we started
really talking about this, um,
more deeply because we, you
(04:13):
know, we're talking about, okay, should we open up, uh,
joint bank accounts, shared accounts?
>> Anthony Weaver (04:19):
I know.
>> Dexter Zhang (04:19):
We started getting deeper into, uh,
the rabbit hole for context as well. I'm
American. My wife is Australian. Um, we met
in Singapore. Uh, so our
finances were also a little bit more
complicated. And
when we start talking about it, then,
uh, we had to go down the rabbit hole
(04:42):
of, uh, really, uh,
planning out what we wanted to do, uh,
in terms of finances, uh, because
there were
more variables when you're bringing
together, um, bank accounts from different
countries, like investment accounts, uh, from different
countries. Um, we started talking
(05:04):
about that. And then, of course, financial, um,
independence, uh, kind of came into
that conversation. Because the way we
view money is that it's a tool to help you
achieve whatever kind of life goal that you
have. For us, we care about that flexibility. But
for other people, maybe it's a, ah, certain level
(05:24):
of security that they want, or maybe they want to,
um, be able to, you know, take on a certain
kind of career path. Uh, so
we see that, uh, for. For us,
money is a tool to achieve flexibility. But for
other families, it may be, uh, or couples, it may
be different.
>> Anthony Weaver (05:45):
That makes sense because, you know,
you had a discussion. You all had a discussion right
before you guys decided to get married. What
would that like? Like, how was that
conversation leading up to. To the big day to
say, like, hey, um,
I. I would like to be with you, like,
(06:06):
and. And like, I want to share my money with
you. Uh, do you guys do, like, separate accounts
or what was. What was those discussions
like?
>> Dexter Zhang (06:16):
For sure. I think, uh, the first step of this was
we. We were in Singapore during COVID and
that's when we started,
um, you know, talking about, hey,
maybe we should open up, like, a joint accounts for our
shared expenses. Right. Uh, because we would buy
groceries together. We would, you know, uh,
(06:36):
spend on rents, uh, together. Right?
And these things were all joint. And previous to that, we were using
an application called Splitwise.
If uh, you're not already familiar with Splitwise, it's
like a, uh, really simple mobile app for you to like, share
expenses with your friends or with uh, your loved
ones. And it requires you to log
(06:56):
every expense. Right. So,
uh, I think the where.
Where push uh, came to shove moment was like we
kind of got tired of having to log all the
expenses in split wise.
And you know,
I'm a little bit embarrassed to say this, but I'm kind of like,
uh, like, Like a tracker, right? So I'm like,
(07:18):
oh, can we just track everything in split wise? And she's
like, it was like a $5, you know, thing, or it was like
a two, three dollar coffee. Like, is that really
needed? And then we had to like, agree on, okay,
maybe like things below $10. You don't have to track it and
split wise. But, you know, it just kind of
became a hassle. Whereas if we
(07:38):
could, uh, create a joint account, then we
could, ah, on a monthly basis, just
transfer in a certain amount and
then, um, and
then spend from that joint account and not really
think about it, uh, too much. Uh, so
that. That was, I think one of the
big kind of conversations that we had and
(08:00):
then taking a step forward in terms of
sharing our finances. And then I think the
next kind of big
kind of conversations that we had
leading up to that as well was like, okay, how do, how do we
decide how much we're contributing, you know, to
our joint account? And um, I'm
sure this, you know, different for every. Every couple that you've,
(08:22):
uh, spoken with. But in the beginning, we
actually started off with
splitting, um, it evenly, like half, half, half.
But this kind of became a issue. Like
this was a mistake more on my part because
we were making different levels of income and at that
point in time I was making more than her. And so,
(08:44):
uh, it felt like it
wasn't a, um, kind of like a fair,
uh, system for
how we've decided to contribute to this joint account.
So yeah, there were some,
um, discussions there, heated
discussions there. And eventually I realized,
(09:05):
okay, we. We can't do this split thing.
Um, this isn't working for us.
So, uh, we divided
the um, like our contributions
up based on our income level,
right? Like our income divided by
like the total household income. That became like our contribution
to uh, the. The joint
(09:27):
account. And that, uh, worked for us.
Yeah. Of course, every couple
decides to do it a little bit differently. For us, that
worked out. We were happy with,
um, that setup.
>> Anthony Weaver (09:41):
Okay, so I'll take it. You lost that argument.
>> Dexter Zhang (09:45):
Yeah. Uh, yeah. You
want to simplify it to that? That's totally cool.
Yes.
>> Anthony Weaver (09:53):
Like, I'm sorry, babe.
Uh, uh, yes.
>> Dexter Zhang (09:58):
Well, now I think it's a great idea. Now I think it's. Yeah, just
a sm. It just makes
sense.
>> Anthony Weaver (10:04):
Yeah. And you know, that's one of the things that
we kind of leave out a lot. It's more than the
numbers that kind of drive everything. It's also like,
how do we actually want to live with each other and if we want
to bring somebody on into that journey?
Um, and so obviously she's dealing with
her background and you're dealing with your background. Um,
(10:25):
when it comes to finances, uh,
how has your parents impacted
your decision making for
finances?
>> Dexter Zhang (10:37):
Oh, so I
come from. I'm a second generation,
um, immigrant to uh, the
States. My parents, um, are from
China originally. My dad initially, um,
moved from, uh, Shanghai to Canada for
graduate school with like $300 in his pocket.
(10:57):
So I think they came from a bit more
of like the scrappy, underdog kind of
immigrant, um, you know, journey.
And because of that growing up, I think,
um, you know, for better, for worse, they. They
wanted to be frugal and they wanted to be very
mindful about, uh, the spending and
(11:18):
expensive side of things. And
that's, uh, you know,
kind of continued, I think in terms
of how they, uh,
they perceive money or their relationship with money.
Things have changed a little bit over time now that
they're retired, they're, you know, going to resorts
(11:38):
in Mexico and you know, spending on travel
with friends. So they are definitely spending
on what they're enjoying a whole lot more.
But I think in terms of, um,
how that has evolved, their relationship
with me is like, they obviously want the best for
me and they care
(11:58):
about, uh, how,
uh, me and my wife, how we're thinking about personal
finances and having a plan in place
and um, making sure
that, you know, um, we're going to
be taken care of, uh, while we're going to be able to take care of ourselves.
Um, I think there are. Fortunately,
(12:19):
you know, when it comes to the relationship with
me and my parents, I, um, don't think there's a
whole lot of expectation, um,
necessarily around,
you know,
got to take care of their retirement or the, you know, there's not
that expectation, uh, for sure.
Would they appreciate me helping out?
(12:41):
Yes, um, I'm sure they would.
Uh, but I do feel,
uh, fortunate in that, you know, they have
explicitly at least, at least said, like, don't worry
about us, uh, we got the
retirement covered. Uh, so far.
Um, so that, that's, uh, been a
conversation at least we've had.
>> Anthony Weaver (13:03):
And that's really good that you guys are having that open
discussion, because when it comes to
retirement, a lot of the times the parents are
usually hesitant on even opening up about
their finances. Um, how did you all,
ah, got to that so comfortable talking
about it. Like, uh, what, how did you even start that
conversation?
>> Dexter Zhang (13:24):
Well, to be candid, we haven't talked about
like, you know, super detailed, uh,
you know, they haven't shared like, their financial plan or,
uh, or anything like that. But
they did share kind of,
um, how they're feeling about
their finances, how they were feeling about their plan,
(13:45):
um, where do they feel comfortable
and where they don't. Uh, so I
think it was a
evolution. When I first
started out working
and kind of taking care of my own career growth
and finances.
My parents started sharing a little bit more about
(14:08):
their own journey and their
progress in personal finances and how they've
thought about it. Uh, but it probably wasn't until
more recently, you know, now
that my wife and I are married and now that
my parents are retired, that we're both kind of like in a stage
of life where,
(14:28):
um, they're more openly
sharing, you know, m, what, what they're
planning for in the future because they understand, like, we're trying to make our
plans as well, and they don't want to feel
like they're in the way of any of those plants.
>> Anthony Weaver (14:42):
Nice. Okay.
>> Dexter Zhang (14:44):
Yeah. So I think that's probably the
main trigger. Um,
uh, more and more. Yeah, they, they, they want us to
feel like we have our own level of
independence and ability to
take, um, control of our life decisions.
>> Anthony Weaver (15:01):
That makes sense because you're focusing
on others, helping them out with their money
path. And I'm always curious how it is when it
comes to family and one of those things. Family
members always look at you like, okay, well, here you
go talking about money again. Like, can we talk about something
else?
Like, so, uh, uh, so what
(15:22):
are the biggest misconceptions that people have about
aligning their finances with their values?
>> Dexter Zhang (15:29):
Oh, um, biggest
misconceptions for
me, um, I, I, I would say that
a lot of people that I see
when they want to talk about money, it's
really a,
um, more black and white kind of kind of measure. Right?
It's like, oh, you have either a lot of money or you
(15:51):
don't. And that's Kind of the perception
of talking about money and personal
finances. But
um, I think what's really underrated
is the self awareness of what
you value. Right.
And ultimately whatever you spend on is just
a reflection of whatever you value.
(16:13):
But reflecting on your values
takes a lot of work. It actually takes some time,
takes some effort. Maybe that looks like doing some
reflection. Maybe that looks like trying out different
career paths. It's different for everyone.
But I think that exercise of
continuing to iterate, like your
(16:34):
own understanding of your values is kind of like
this foundational piece that then you
can put um,
like whatever kind of personal finance lesson on top of that.
Kind of like a building block. Um, and
money is that lens. Right. That your, your
values really looks through.
>> Anthony Weaver (16:54):
Nice.
>> Dexter Zhang (16:55):
Okay.
>> Anthony Weaver (16:56):
That's a good way of doing it and I appreciate you sharing
that because you know, some of our money
values actually come from when we're children. And I'm
glad that you were able to open up about
your upbringing during that process.
Um, so you ultimately come up with
this cool product called like Money
(17:17):
Abroad. What is it?
>> Dexter Zhang (17:21):
Definitely Money Abroad started off
as a money newsletter
for expats or people living abroad. And that was a
reflection of my own personal um,
experiences. Uh, moving from
the US to uh, Singapore
after. Yeah, pretty pretty much like
(17:41):
most of my adult life. Um, up
to that point I was, I was
20. 28.
Yeah, 28 or so. Uh, when I made that
move. And what
that's really showed me
was like oh, wow, money kind of gets
complicated when you're overseas. And that's how I initially
(18:03):
started that newsletter. But over
time it has evolved, uh, a little bit,
has attracted people who are also non, non ah,
expats. But they're excited
about uh, carving out a,
um, way to live on their own terms.
Tends to be people who are
maybe you know,
(18:26):
seven to 15 years of um,
experience into their careers and they're trying
to figure out, okay, what next? Um,
after the point of maybe
you're thinking about starting a family or maybe
you're realizing that you're
not um, interested in walking the same career path
(18:47):
for too much longer, then it's like
okay, what next can you do? Um, and
that's why I talk about Coast Fire as one of these
topics, uh, and talk about portfolio
careers and kind of introduce different
alternatives, uh, for people in the
newsletter that makes sense.
>> Anthony Weaver (19:05):
Especially what's going on today. And
as a recent event, a lot of people are looking to become
expats.
What is the, I guess you could say what are
the, the main steps that somebody can
do right now to kind of prepare
themselves if they thinking about going abroad or living
abroad.
>> Dexter Zhang (19:26):
Totally. I think the biggest
blocker for a lot of people is
understanding.
Um, you know, if. If
you're just an individual at this point,
uh, then you just got to think about your own
career path. And then you got to figure out, like, okay, how
does your career path translates to
(19:48):
something overseas? Right.
And then if you have another, uh, if you have a
partner, then, uh, that means also translating, like,
what they're doing career wise into
something overseas. And finding
kind of the intersection of that can be a
little bit, uh, can be a little bit tricky if you
have, uh, specific kind of career
(20:11):
goals. However, if you're more
flexible or if you're fortunate and there's
like, certain cities that just like, really map really well
with what you're trying to do, then
that can work out, like, that can be feasible. An
example of this would be for, uh, me. I'm in
Mexico City now, but before we were in
Singapore, and, uh, that was a great
(20:33):
intersection of. My wife is Australian. A lot of
Australians moved to Singapore for career opportunities. Anyways,
thanks. Um, so that was
a, you know, good next step
for, for her. And then for me, I
was interested in living in Southeast, uh,
Asia. And there were, you know, uh, in
(20:54):
terms of my industry, there were a lot of opportunities
in terms of the tech industry at the time, um, in
Singapore. So there was that kind
of happy intersection for us that happened
there. Uh, for others, it might be, uh, different. I
think I saw you had, uh, Stephanie on your podcast.
Yeah, yeah. Um, we met at fincon as
(21:16):
well, and Stephanie's a great example of,
you know, um, the Portugal expat community and,
you know, lifestyle in
Portugal kind of being a match for
what her and husband, um, were
looking for.
>> Anthony Weaver (21:32):
Nice. Because, I mean, we try
to figure out, like, how do we actually make money?
You know, when you're.
>> Dexter Zhang (21:39):
Exactly.
>> Anthony Weaver (21:40):
And exactly. Do you teach
somebody, um, English or
usually. That's usually the one that everybody go to. And I'm
like, okay, do something.
>> Dexter Zhang (21:50):
Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, that's. That tends to be
like a recent college grad, maybe 22 or
something. Great, great,
great. You know, starting point for a lot of
people. Um, definitely not knocking
English teachers, uh, you know, in South Korea or
something. I think it's really cool. Um, but, yeah,
(22:11):
probably not, like, if you're. If you have a family, if you're,
you know, in your 30s or, uh, 40s,
looking to make a transition. So
definitely, you know, figuring out how you're going
to make money like the career path, seeing if your career path
can continue to extend overseas. I think it's
quite important. Um, and if
you can take a look at your particular industry
(22:34):
and see like are there any cities where your industry is
pretty prominent then you
might find some m. Happy
overlaps. So I know for example in
terms of um, you know the tech industry,
because I've been in this industry for
a decade, is that there's several global
cities um, that now
(22:56):
have uh, thriving
kind of tech ecosystems and they want
to invest further into it. So
places like uh, London,
um, is one example that is I've
known several um,
people working in the tech industries either as
(23:16):
professionals or as founders moving there
in Asia. Of course Singapore is uh, an
example of that. Ah so those
are some um, potential examples. Um
Mexico City as well there are
um, as a hub for Latin
America it's becoming
more um, attractive for
(23:39):
tech, uh, companies kind of like base their operations
there, uh, uh, for the Spanish speaking part of
Latin America. So those are some examples
of how uh,
when you take a look at your industry you might find like a few
cities that are quite good for your
industry and then um, you can
maybe visit, you know, talk to some people, get a sense on
(24:02):
the ground as well. So for
example when um, my wife and
I were considering moving to Singapore, I had already visited
before and then I spent some time networking
like I did a couple trips in
addition just to network and
meet people, uh, working in an
(24:22):
industry that I want to work in.
And uh, I learned a lot from
those conversations because the reality is
like most of the time the information you
see on the Internet is like totally out of date or it's just not
always like an accurate reflection of what's happening
um, on the ground. So uh,
(24:42):
actually going, meeting people, having conversations,
um, or if you can't visit, you know, having at
least doing outreach to uh,
to potential ah, people are kind of in
a similar role in your target
city. Or maybe a super connector, like someone who
is really um, like ah, like a community
(25:03):
manager or a community leader. Right. Um, in, in
that city. I think it's a great person to, to connect
with and that can, that can
be helpful to get some feedback on um, how
is like the job market doing. What are the
opportunities for someone like with a, with a background
like me? Those kind of questions.
>> Anthony Weaver (25:22):
Yeah, and you've been doing,
I say yes, traveling is awesome
but also you gotta get a means to, to why you want to
travel, um, but also in your
journey you've done so much in
tech. Where do you see the
tech industry when it comes to financial
tech that's going to help out the people, the everyday person
(25:44):
that's really pinching pennies right now.
>> Dexter Zhang (25:49):
Definitely. So I think on
one hand, uh, you know, you're
seeing obviously like more
uh, technologies. Uh, technology
is always changing. Right. And because of that the
tools that we have are always changing.
Uh, personal finance is
(26:09):
one kind of area
where those tools, uh, change really rapidly. They're
getting so much easier to use from a consumer
standpoint. I think in terms of managing
finances, 15 years ago,
10 plus years ago, I think all
I can really think of using at that point in
(26:30):
time was mint. But now there's like,
you know, so, so many different options. Right. So it's
I think a great time for consumers
of these tools. So
a lot of these tools are pretty low costs as
well. Uh, or like the, the cost
of using these personal finance tools are also
(26:51):
getting um, less and
less. And,
and it's not just the tools for managing finances. It's
also the um,
investment tools, the uh,
funds for investments. Uh, so
example this would be like Vanguard is continuing to reduce their,
their fees. I think they just announced they reduced their fees
(27:13):
again, um, right. Over time. And
I think that's something that anyone can take
advantage of. Right. Uh, those, those
um, reduced fee kind of opportunities for
investments.
>> Anthony Weaver (27:27):
That's good. Um, because I, I just want people to know.
Well, I want the person that's listening right now to know that
you do have what it takes. I mean it's right there at your
fingertips. Just gotta press the button.
>> Dexter Zhang (27:39):
Exactly, exactly. So the tool, the tools are there,
uh, the, you know,
investments are there with low fees
are there. And yeah, it's
really, it's really um, up to you
to you know, do, do some light research on
like what, what it is, you know, fits your particular
goals. But they're definitely accessible,
(28:02):
um, at this point in time.
>> Anthony Weaver (28:03):
Yeah.
So this is about you though. Like what areas
of focus that you feel
needs the most improvement for yourself?
>> Dexter Zhang (28:14):
Oh, good. Uh, question.
So I think in terms of,
um, in terms of,
you know, life stage, my wife and I
are kind of at the stage where, you know, we don't have kids yet. We
haven't really thought of,
uh, you know, plan too far ahead, of
(28:36):
course, but we do want to like, be financially
prepared. Uh. Right. Like
if and when we do have kids, uh, then
don't want to be totally like blindsided by all
that. And then I think the other thing.
Exactly. Uh, and then I think the other thing is just figuring
out like, you know, because she's Australian, I'm
American, we're living in Mexico City.
(28:58):
The question we always get is like, where are you going to end up?
You know, where you were going to,
uh, put roots? Like that kind of question.
And. Well, I think it's a very
valid question. Uh, because
of our background, I
think we're a bit more flexible in terms of, in terms of
location and um, in terms
(29:20):
of the lifestyle that comes with that. Uh, but
I think that is something we
want uh, to figure out at least on a year
by year, like a shorter time frame kind of horizon.
Maybe let's say next two to three years. Okay. Like this,
this kind of chunk of time. Um,
whereas some people want to plan out much longer. It's like,
okay, next, like 20 years, like we want to be here.
(29:43):
Right. Um,
so those areas, the
family planning and also
planning, um, out, okay, location wise, where,
where do we want to like,
uh, let's say, uh,
open up accounts or figure out our cost of living? Like
those, those kind of questions are impacted
(30:05):
by where we're going to be for the
next two or three years.
>> Anthony Weaver (30:09):
That makes sense.
So that brings up the question then, how are
you feeling about renting versus owning?
>> Dexter Zhang (30:17):
Great question.
So I'm going to be own bias because
my life has been overseas
and definitely been shaped
by the
desire for flexibility and
mobility. So while I
(30:38):
think earlier in my career I
was interested in potentially uh,
buying at, at that stage,
especially I think in the middle 2000 and tens, it seemed
to make a lot of sense or I had a lot of
peers, like friends, colleagues
signing to buy at that um, point in time. Uh,
(31:00):
but for me I realized, okay, well, if I'm
gonna try this moving abroad thing,
which, you know, first started off as a travel sabbatical and then
move and then actually moving overseas after I realized like,
oh, this is actually kind of nice, I, I like this.
Then I discovered, well, it might
not be totally worth it, right. From
(31:23):
a financial perspective and from a lifestyle
perspective if I'm not living in that
home, so I'm not really using it and I have to rent it out.
Um, but then I have to also
consider the operational pieces of it
putting uh, the sweat of figuring out what
happens when things go wrong, who's going to deal with it,
(31:43):
how to get a property manager in that area, that kind
of thing. So
um, long story short, I am,
I, I prefer renting. And
the main, yeah, the main thing for me and
my wife is that ah, ah, Flexibility. So
Kenley, I mean, my wife also has, ah, um,
(32:04):
uh, property in Australia. But even
still, uh, that was like, from before we
got married. And um, I don't think
we're totally tied to the
idea of like, keeping it for forever or anything like that.
>> Anthony Weaver (32:18):
Hey, I mean, this is why it's the features. I like having this
open discussion because a lot of people are
at that point now. It's like, hey, we have our
foundation nice and solid. So
what now? And you're a perfect
example of like, hey, we don't know what's going to happen
next, but at least within the next two years there'll be something.
>> Dexter Zhang (32:41):
Exactly, exactly. We, yeah, we, we do consider
that, that downside risk. And
what we want to avoid is
a situation where, let's
say, oh, we have to move because,
uh, our, our parents are, you know, not
feeling well. That that's a real possibility. Um,
(33:02):
well, they're healthy now, of course, but, you know, just,
just in case. And in that
scenario, then if we had a
property that we had
purchased and we had the mortgage and the loan
payments, um,
that would probably restrict our mobility and restrict
our flexibility. Unless if we like, rent it out. But then we have
(33:24):
to then go through the whole process of,
um, getting property manager, like, figuring
out the operational, operational, uh, uh, side of
it. So that's what we wanted
to avoid and give ourselves a bit more
breathing room.
>> Anthony Weaver (33:41):
Yeah. And considering you're selling your 30s,
which is a great way to kind of like you
starting to slow down a little bit from when in your 20s, you
were just all over the place. Uh, and it's a good way to do
it. I mean, I wouldn't mind if. I would
say I'm not sure how this show will
evolve, but if the show was still here in 10
years, I would love to actually have you back on and be like, you know,
(34:03):
we did wind up doing all the things.
>> Dexter Zhang (34:09):
I love that. Yeah, that would be fantastic. And
I don't know if you've done this for, uh,
previous, uh, podcast guests, but I think that's a great idea just
to, uh, show like, hey, we talked about these topics. Let's
take a look, you know, few years later, what actually
happens in their life?
>> Anthony Weaver (34:26):
Well, I can tell you a lot of the people that I interviewed during my
first season, they no longer have that business. And I
can't even find them on social. So
they, uh, dismantled. So it's very
few of them has continued on. And my podcast
is only coming up on five years. So
it's wow to See, that's really interesting.
Yeah. And I try to send them emails but it's good like you
(34:48):
know, that uh, the 404 error. And I'm
like, I at least wanted to at least come back
on to at least say what happened.
>> Dexter Zhang (34:56):
But
ah, that would be a
really great episode if you do manage to get them
back on. Maybe we'll see them at
fincon and I, I can help.
>> Anthony Weaver (35:10):
Maybe.
>> Dexter Zhang (35:11):
Yeah.
>> Anthony Weaver (35:12):
Um, so is there anything that you want to
leave the audience with before we dive into the final four questions?
>> Dexter Zhang (35:20):
I m. Think uh, just to
summarize what we had uh, talked about a little
bit earlier, I want to emphasize
that it really helped, uh, me and my wife
did the exercise to figure out, you
know, what we viewed as our top values.
And fortunately a lot of them were aligned, uh,
(35:41):
which is great. And that really helped us
get clarity on how do
we, how do we approach like work more intentionally, how
do we approach money, uh, more
intentionally, uh, and prioritize,
you know, how, how we want to save and invest,
uh, for, for different things. An example of this is like
(36:01):
so when my wife and I got married, we
had a couple smaller banquets in
uh, Singapore, in Sydney and in Shanghai
with our family members and some extended family
and um, you know, a few friends here,
here and there. But we didn't do like a really, really big
wedding because uh, neither of
us really prioritized that as like, oh,
(36:24):
we really, really want to have like a huge wedding
celebration. I mean in the future we would like to maybe
do like a uh, do like an anniversary
party with a group of friends and that would be really fun.
Um, but instead what we did
with, you know, what we would have spent on a
wedding, we put it put away for a
honeymoon. So later, you know, we'll take
(36:47):
a really nice honeymoon to do like a safari in Tanzania
and like go to Hawaii and like that. That
doesn't really put any pressure on us financially because we
already had allocated that, um, and
we're pretty excited for it and looking forward
to making that happen. But that required
us to make some trade offs right in terms
(37:07):
of um, what it is we wanted. And
that started with the values.
>> Anthony Weaver (37:12):
That is awesome that you guys were on the same page with
that and hopefully that
uh, the person that's listening is really
taking note on.
Hey, it doesn't have to be done all at once.
You can have everything but just not at the same time.
You'll get it.
>> Dexter Zhang (37:30):
Exactly, exactly. Well
said. Yeah, we can do a party,
maybe not, you know, for
the wedding itself, but Maybe in, like, a few years, do an
anniversary party, Something like that.
>> Anthony Weaver (37:45):
Yeah. Well, you ready for the final four
questions?
>> Dexter Zhang (37:48):
Yeah, let's do it, Anthony. Let it rip.
>> Anthony Weaver (37:50):
All right,
next. They're ready.
So, number one, um, what does
wealth mean to you?
>> Dexter Zhang (38:01):
Wealth? For me?
Yeah. It used to traditionally mean, like, just having tons of money,
but now, uh, the older I get
and maybe, you know, 10 years later when,
uh, we revisit this, it'll sound different. Is that
in my 30s, it really is about flexibility. It's. It's about
giving me some control over my time
(38:24):
and, uh, flexibility and not
having to worry, uh, too much about,
uh, about how I'm spending money.
>> Anthony Weaver (38:33):
Perfect. Number two, what
was your worst money mistake?
>> Dexter Zhang (38:38):
For me, you know, I
started investing when I think I was
18, and I just got into college, and I opened
up a brokerage at E Trade, and
I just picked a couple stocks and, you know,
started started, um, investing that
way. And then it wasn't until, like, maybe a couple years
later, I learned about index funds. And I was like,
(39:01):
oh, this is a much smarter way, uh,
to. To do this. And I thought that
afterwards I kind of figured it out. I was like,
oh, well, I just invest in boring index
funds. And that's, like, pretty simple. But what I didn't
expect is how, uh, emotional investing
is. And inevitably, you know,
over the past, uh, like
(39:24):
12 years or so since then, I've still,
like, felt the. Felt the attraction of,
like, oh, maybe it's, like, speculating on, um,
certain stocks. Or maybe. Maybe it's like,
oh, crypto bull run.
>> Anthony Weaver (39:37):
Why.
>> Dexter Zhang (39:37):
Why are all my friends talking about it? Maybe. Maybe I should,
like, you know,
put more than I should into. Into some of that.
Um, so I think speculation is
still the worst money mistake, but
it's also one that I realized, like, it
can keep hap. Like, it can keep coming up
(39:58):
in different forms or shapes.
>> Anthony Weaver (40:00):
That is awesome. Uh, that you look. You do
a lot of reflection on yourself. It seems like you
do almost like an annual, at least a monthly reflection on
yourself just based on your response.
Wish I had that intuition when I was your age.
Number, uh, three. Is there a book that
(40:21):
inspired your journey or changed your perspective?
>> Dexter Zhang (40:25):
All right, so the book that,
um, really inspired my, uh, expat journey
and how I thought about personal finances, uh, as
an expat is one called Millionaire Expat. It's by
Andrew Halen, and he built a
million dollar plus investment portfolio even as a school
teacher overseas. So I thought that was really cool.
(40:45):
Um, and I liked his personal Journey
of how he learned about investing by investing
on the side and how
he also talks a lot about, like, as an American, when you're
overseas, there's like, certain tax implications or a lot
of questions that come up. It's like, how do I invest
while overseas? Should I use my home brokerage? Should
(41:05):
I use a brokerage in, uh, this new country?
And all those nitty gritty questions
he dives into. So if you're
someone who is looking to,
uh, move overseas or kind of wants to learn more about
what investing is like when, uh, when
that's your life situation, then Millionaire
Expat is a potentially good book for
(41:28):
you.
>> Anthony Weaver (41:29):
Awesome. Number four,
what is your favorite dish to make?
>> Dexter Zhang (41:35):
Uh, recently my wife and I bought a instant
pot. That's like a nine. Nine in one instant
pot. The ninja. Uh,
you're nodding your head. Maybe you know it, but air
fryer in it. Okay. Air fryer. Uh,
saute. It's got everything. Anyways,
uh, one of our, yeah, favorite things to make,
(41:55):
uh, with it is, uh, a chili. It's like a 20,
20 minute chili. You know, you just throw in, um,
you know, all the, uh, all the minced meat.
Uh, you know, we use beef here, and then
you can saute it in the same pot that you later.
Then, uh, use the pressure cooker to, uh, make the chili
all in 20 minutes. And I, I feel like
(42:16):
it's. It's just the best because you can do it
on Sunday night, and then you get pretty much your
meals for the rest of the week.
>> Anthony Weaver (42:24):
That's amazing. All right. I might have to, um.
I had to try that out one day.
>> Dexter Zhang (42:30):
Yeah, thanks for saying
it.
>> Anthony Weaver (42:33):
Uh, so this is the last question of the show, which is
where could people find out more about you?
>> Dexter Zhang (42:40):
Absolutely. You can go to
moneyabroad, uh, co,
and there you can, uh, find all
my contact information and, uh,
more information about what I'm working on.
>> Anthony Weaver (42:53):
Right. Thank you so much, Dexter, for all of
your information, all of your personal
stories. I know we didn't dive into all the businesses and
everything like that. Y'all can go to the other platforms that he's been
on to talk about that fun stuff, but we are here to
learn more about the man behind all of
the cool things that you've been doing. Um, and I just want
(43:14):
to congratulate you on all of the things that you've been
doing, uh, especially when it comes to
helping people out with personal finance. And as you heard,
everybody, like, you have what it takes. You
just got to really take time out to do your research
and really understand what it is that you want out of life
so that you can align your finances for it.
So I wish you all the best if you need to. If you
(43:37):
didn't get anything out of this one, but you think somebody else would listen
to this, definitely slide it on over to, um, them,
because they could actually help them out as well.
So thank you so much. Y'all have a great
day. We out.
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United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com