Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law's Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.
Episodes
July 9, 2025 • 42 mins
Law firm mergers and John Roberts brags for the crowd.
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Has the era of the mid-sized firm come to an end? Probably not, but with increasing nationalization and the financial pressures that go along with it, mid-sized firms are consolidating and a valuable segment (and price point!) may be lost. Lawyers have faced a steady stream of sanctions for citing fake cases generated by AI, but now a judge officially blessed an order b...
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July 2, 2025 • 40 mins
The Term ended with a whole lot of nonsense.
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Taking a sledgehammer where a chisel -- or better yet nothing -- would do, the Supreme Court nixed injunctions it didn't like by striking down the power to issue universal injunctions totally and addressed schools teaching that gay people exist by expanding strict scrutiny to parents lodging religious complaints. But at least they whined and took swipes at each other over it! Mea...
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June 25, 2025 • 36 mins
And the Supreme Court has a wild one.
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Except those judges aren't going to like it when you catch them. Like the poor lawyer here who called a judge "honey" during oral argument and entered a spiral of no return. We also had a dramatic week at the Supreme Court, with Justice Gorsuch trying to start something with Justice Jackson and Justice Jackson shutting it right down, and Sam Alito using his concurrence to complain that ...
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June 18, 2025 • 35 mins
Also, the role of bar associations in 2025.
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According to a new survey, lawyers think their law firms are really tolerant of jerks. Are they right about that, or just overly sensitive? The DC Bar election ended in a blowout, but why? For all the complaining about some wild theories on social media, the simpler reason is that leading a bar association in 2025 means standing up to the administration and Pam Bondi's brother nev...
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June 11, 2025 • 35 mins
Caving law firms experience exodus.
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Paul Weiss fancied itself clever when it offered Trump pro bono payola in exchange for dropping an illegal executive order. Instead it keeps hemorrhaging senior lawyers with more departing to join the recent rainmaker spinoff and associates reportedly high on the new firm's wish list. While litigators are largely driving defections from surrender firms, at what point does a hollowed out l...
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June 4, 2025 • 37 mins
Quite the combination of words.
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Lawsuit against former Texas SG alleges bizarre cosmic sex fetish. The administration made two significant changes to the judicial nomination process, firing the ABA from its neutral evaluator role and kicking the Federalist Society to the curb. The latter move came with an epic rant declaring Leonard Leo a sleazebag. Broken clocks and all. And Kash Patel lays out the FBI's priorities and chi...
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May 28, 2025 • 40 mins
From the administrative state to voting rights, they're just sort of winging it trying to reverse engineer results.
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As Supreme Court season hits fever pitch, we're joined by Professor Leah Litman, author of Lawless: How the Supreme Court Runs on Conservative Grievance, Fringe Theories, and Bad Vibes, to discuss the nightmare we're facing. Elena Kagan took the opportunity to humiliate her colleagues last week calling out an...
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May 21, 2025 • 41 mins
Seashellgate meets Surrendergate.
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Since we're cursed to act as keepers of the flame to remind the legal community that several large law firms really did willingly sell out to the Trump administration, this week we discuss our columnist Vivia Chen's exploration of the unique impact of these moves on young lawyers learning early that Biglaw is more than happy to throw them under the bus.
We also discuss how James Comey's In...
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May 14, 2025 • 35 mins
What if we just act like nothing happened?
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Biglaw firms who gave in to Trump suffered a scathing 60 Minutes piece and key talent defections, so they've decided upon a new tactic: pretending they never made a deal at all! It does not appear to be working. Meanwhile, Justice David Souter died reminding everyone of an era when the federal judiciary cared more about the right answer than appeasing political patrons. Unfortunate...
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May 7, 2025 • 33 mins
It was a bad week to compromise your values.
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Perkins Coie secured a permanent injunction against the Trump administration's retaliatory executive order. Meanwhile, firms that balked at putting up a fight against the illegal attacks have seen the White House drag them into police brutality cases and law schools start openly talking about students taking their talents elsewhere. And then the harshest cut of all -- a deep pock...
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April 30, 2025 • 29 mins
The arrest of Wisconsin judge Hannah Dugan is straight outta dystopian fiction. But at least retired Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer still has faith in the system, which makes one of us. Speaking of the High Court, Justice Sam Alito's dissent would be laughable if he weren't so powerful.
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April 23, 2025 • 34 mins
And the world continues to melt.
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We've got key financial data from the top law firms and the takeaway is that it's good to be a big firm. The Am Law 100 this year revealed that more and more firms have joined the super rich and things look bright for Biglaw. Unless someone triggers a global depression or something. We also discuss what it means to be "bipartisan" in an environment where the intellectual stars of the conservat...
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April 16, 2025 • 39 mins
US News and World Report released its most recent law school rankings with a side of chaos, but the big takeaway is the scrambling and erosion of the "T14" as an organizing concept. Is it time to dismiss the rankings as arbitrary? At least until law schools agree to cooperate again. Also, Surrendergate continues and the "we'll do some pro bono for veterans" deal has turned dramatically, with the White House now claiming the authori...
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April 9, 2025 • 32 mins
And now we have a tracker for that!
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After a few weeks of watching some law firms stand up to facially illegal demands from the Trump administration... and more law firms rapidly cave to those same demands, we put together a helpful tracker to keep clients, potential laterals, and law students fully aware of where firms currently stand. But we depend on you out there to keep us up-to-date! Meanwhile, more associates have taken...
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April 2, 2025 • 33 mins
A great divide is developing.
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Following the Paul Weiss surrender we discussed last week, Skadden preemptively followed suit agreeing to commit $100M in pro bono payola to the MAGA cause. Bringing to light some embarrassing email policies in the process. But other Biglaw firms showed a little more life, with Jenner & Block and WilmerHale suing the administration over its retaliatory executive orders. And a major firm announced...
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March 26, 2025 • 31 mins
Courage seems to be in short supply in Biglaw.
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Paul Weiss folded immediately in the face of Trump's threat, offering the president pro bono services and a retreat from DEI. For a firm that built its reputation on litigation, the move came as a surprise. A Skadden associate called upon the industry to develop a backbone. So she's not going to be working there any more. There are a lot of dumb things about the administration's ...
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March 19, 2025 • 35 mins
There's no escaping the administration's influence on the legal landscape.
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The Trump administration continues its revenge tour against Biglaw, and Perkins Coie is fighting back. Through counsel at Williams & Connolly, Perkins delivered a scorching takedown of the administration's arbitrary retaliation against the firm, earning a partial TRO. Meanwhile, most of Biglaw remains silent. And if they aren't silent, they're silently...
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March 12, 2025 • 33 mins
ACB isn't having it.
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Remember when Arrested Development made this a gag? John Roberts is living it out in real time as the president explains -- on national television -- that Roberts is a partisan hack.
Amy Coney Barrett seems less excited about the prospect. Meanwhile, the administration is threatening law firms. The dean of one law school is stepping up. Also, what is this -- now former -- partner doing?
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March 5, 2025 • 36 mins
And the new USNWR rankings are dealing with some crazy data.
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We're not saying Diddy is an unsavory client, but we are saying Osama bin Laden's lawyer just noped out of continuing to represent him. We also got some limited insight into the US News rankings and there's some potential tumult at the top. And Judge Reyes had to blow up a hapless DOJ lawyer trying to defend the indefensible and the Trump administration displayed it...
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February 26, 2025 • 36 mins
The new federal deficit is the government's research deficit.
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Elon Musk's aimless cost-cutting escapades turn to the SEC where DOGE slashed their Westlaw access because no one over there is smart enough to know how legal research works. Apparently now is an opportune time to start committing securities fraud! Speaking of aimless, former judge Alex Kozinski penned a meandering opinion piece about canceling elections in case, m...
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