March 2, 2024 • 64 mins
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Phil Washington's voyage from the challenging streets of Chicago's South Side to the heights of transportation industry leadership is a narrative that resonates with the power of transformation. In a candid conversation, he shares the profound influence his family had in steering his life towards a purpose greater than he could have imagined. From the pivotal moment that rerouted his life's direction in the military to the serendipitous leap into the transportation arena, Phil's story is a masterclass in seizing life's unexpected opportunities and the profound impact of spiritual grounding.
His reflections on situational leadership and the practice of empathy within authority come to light, offering invaluable insights for anyone seeking to lead with heart and strength. His principles, such as "proceed until apprehended," provide a framework for navigating the complexities of organizational trust and the art of managing disappointments. Phil's success is a poignant testament to the enduring power of a mother's prayers and the spiritual inheritance that transcends material success.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Grantley (00:09):
Welcome to Above the Noise, a podcast at the
intersection of faith, race andreconciliation, and I'm your
host, Grantley Martelly.
My guest today is Mr.
Phil Washington, a friend, abrother and someone that I'm
(00:33):
really excited about talkingabout today.
I think that you, as myaudience, will learn a lot from
Phil.
We learn a lot together.
Phil is the current CEO of theDenver International Airport,
former CEO of Los Angeles Metroand the Denver Regional
Transportation District.
He was also the head ofPresident Biden's transition
(00:53):
team for transportation, servedan illustrious 24-year career in
the US Army and is leading andmentoring many young people and
business people to be successfulin our industry.
So I am extremely thankful thatyou are here, Phil, and I'm
thankful for your impact on mylife in the time that we've
(01:15):
known each other.
Phil (01:17):
Well, thank you so much, Grantley, for having me here,
and I applaud you for your work,not only on this and doing the
podcast, but your work aroundthe country and inspiring people
, especially people of color.
Grantley (01:33):
Thank you.
So let's begin by introducingyourself to our audience.
Tell them where you werebrought up and some things about
you growing up, your family,you married or not, before they
get to know a little bit aboutyou, before we start talking
about the specifics.
Phil (01:49):
Yeah, well, let me start with where I was born and all
that was born on the south sideof Chicago, a single mother who
worked 14 hours a day.
I grew up with five sisters andpeople say, well, five sisters,
(02:09):
wow, that's you were spoiled orsomething.
So they make that assumption.
That's an incorrect assumption.
Four of my sisters were olderthan me, and so what that means
is you deal with a lot of guysthat's older than you,
protecting their honor, if youwill.
(02:30):
So I never really knew myfather.
I met him after I was a littlebit older, but it was a lot of
love in our family.
My grandmother actually livedwith us and raised us, and that
(02:51):
was a blessing as well.
And it was a blessing that wehad the values, if you will, of
both my mother and mygrandmother, and their values
were very, very faith-based,which we can talk about.
And, having said that, I wasvery, very close to both my
(03:18):
grandmother and my grandfatherand, of course, my mother had
one sister and one brother andwas very, very close to them,
and my first cousins as well.
I am married and have fourchildren, three girls, one son.
(03:42):
So my son is an only son aswell.
So there you go, but wouldn'ttrade that in that upbringing in
for anything because of thevalues and the priorities that
came with it.
Grantley (03:58):
Thank you.
So many people say I grew up onthe south side of Chicago or I
grew up in the Bronx, or thereare places in the United States,
in LA, if you grew up in Watts.
That has a certain meaning topeople in the United States.
But for some of our audience,people who are not familiar with
(04:19):
that, what does it mean whenyou say you grew up on the south
side of Chicago?
Does that?
Have any special meaning.
Phil (04:26):
I think it does.
I think it comes with, for meanyway, a certain awareness that
I have embedded in me.
I'll just call it street savvy.
Not that anyone else does nothave it, but a certain street
(04:46):
savvy that comes with that.
I mean, I remember when I wasin the military I would tell
people that I was born andraised on the south side of
Chicago and they wouldimmediately have a certain
perception of what I was, andsometimes, most of the time,
(05:08):
actually, it was not.
I won't say it was not good, butit came with this sort of
perception that I was slick andyou couldn't get anything over
on me and all of that.
And so I'll also say thatpeople from the south side of
(05:29):
Chicago they may be the onlyones that I know, and I know
folks from New York and theBronx and different places, but
south side of Chicago folks arethe only ones that specifically
identify themselves from whatside of the city they're on.
It's the south side, I mean.
(05:51):
Folks from New York, they don'tsay the south side of the Bronx
, they just say the Bronx, andso that distinction has always
stayed with me and anybody thatyou hear, that you meet, that
were raised on the south side ofChicago will probably identify
(06:12):
themselves that way.
Grantley (06:14):
Okay, but that's good to know, because sometimes
people who didn't grow up in theUnited States hear those things
and say well, what does thatreally mean?
Let's talk a little bit aboutyour career.
You left high school and joinedthe military.
Talk a little bit about that,and then we'll be talking about
(06:35):
your transition totransportation.
Phil (06:38):
Yeah, so was in high school, was not really sure what
I would do and I don't tellthis story often, I'm not sure
for you, Grantley, because Ilike you, but I was not a great
student in high school and I hada pretty long rap sheet in high
(07:03):
school, I guess.
And so in October of my senioryear, I was actually expelled
from high school for doing somecrazy things with some crazy
guys and I was expelled.
And at that time in my life Iwas 17 years old.
(07:25):
At that time in my life I justthought you know what, I'll just
be expelled and I'll just getsome job, some little job, and
I'll survive and I'll just do mything.
I did not tell my mother I wasexpelled.
It took me probably about aweek, or maybe even two weeks,
(07:47):
before I got up the nerve totell her and I thought that I
would just.
I thought she would just feelthe same thought.
I thought she would say, youjust go ahead and do your own
things and you're on your own.
Instead, it was the first timethat I saw my mother get very
(08:07):
emotional and pretty muchbreakdown, because and this was
a very tough woman, very, verytough woman, and I had never
seen that before.
She said, hey, listen, I'mtaking off from work and we're
going up to the school.
She told that assistantprincipal, I must have my son,
(08:28):
my son must graduate, my onlyson must graduate.
And she broke down right thereat you know, in the office there
, and it surprised me, and itsurprised the vice principal as
well, who had a change of heartand who said we will allow him
(08:48):
back into high school, but hehas to do two or three things,
which I was willing to do.
And so that was sort of mysignificant emotional event, or
C people call it, and I wasallowed back in, not until
January.
So this was October.
(09:11):
So during that time that I wasout, I went to night school, I
did a lot of different things tocatch up, and me and a buddy
went down to the recruitingoffice and we joined right there
.
We lied about our age, so muchso that you had to be 18.
I lied and said I was 18.
, so much so that my records,almost 25 years later, when I
(09:36):
retired, I actually had adifferent birth date.
Right, yeah, it was crazy.
And so that's how I joined themilitary.
I joined on a delayed entryprogram because you had to be a
high school graduate even then,and so that delayed entry
(09:58):
program allows you to come in,sign in, sign up at that time
and go six months later.
And so I went and left in Juneof that next year.
So that's kind of how I joined.
It was not something I plannedto join the military or anything
(10:18):
, but something that was.
You could call it divineprovidence, if you will.
Grantley (10:25):
Okay, was your mom supportive of that?
Phil (10:29):
My mom was scared because keep in mind that well, not keep
in mind, but this was this Ijoined in I think it was
December of 1975.
And so the Vietnam War had justended in April of 1975.
(10:50):
So a few months earlier theVietnam War had ended and here I
am, joined in the military.
So I think my mother was morescared than anything, but she
knew that I had to do somethingand she knew that I had to get
(11:11):
out of Chicago and there was alot of stress that I was under
as well, because another thing Ididn't tell you, that I didn't
mention, was I had a young girlpregnant too, in November of
(11:32):
1975.
And so actually the baby wasborn in November of 1975.
So you talk about pressure onme, but on the young lady too.
So October I'm kicked out ofschool.
October my girl had a baby.
(11:52):
She's born daughter.
In December I signed up for themilitary.
So it was a lot of stuff goingon around that time.
Grantley (12:00):
Yeah, a lot of stuff.
Are you still in contact withthat child?
Phil (12:06):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely , absolutely.
Just talked to her yesterday.
She's a beautiful young lady, aregistered nurse living in the
city of Chicago, so that's myoldest daughter.
Grantley (12:19):
That's great.
Well, congratulations, thankyou.
However, with that stressfulsign up for the military, you
happen to rise to some of thehighest ranks of the enlisted I
think the highest rank that youcould go as an enlisted person
(12:40):
in the army.
So it seems like it fits youpretty well, would you say yeah.
Phil (12:46):
Yeah, so you know, I left Chicago on June 29, 1976.
And the blessing of that wasthat the night before June 28,
1976, my mother married and Iwas so happy for my mother who
(13:13):
married a very, very good man,who was actually a minister and,
as I said, I, you know, did notknow my natural father very
well, but I was so happy thatactually my mother was marrying
(13:35):
remarrying, if you will and thisman was moving her out of the
public housing or the projectsthat we grew up in.
This was the most I felt goodabout leaving.
Yeah, I'll put it that way,because I was concerned about my
mother's.
My sisters were a little bitolder.
They were leaving the house.
I was concerned about my motherstill being out there in my
(14:00):
leaving, and so the night beforewas probably even better than
me leaving the next morning.
At 4 am in the morning mymother was concerned that I was
going to the South.
I went down to South Carolina.
The racial tensions, as you knowgladly, in the South was not
(14:26):
too far removed.
Right, you know, being fromChicago, we grew up with the
story of Emmett Till.
Emmett Till was a young boy of14 years old that was sent down
to the South in 1955 and wasmurdered in the South for
allegedly whistling at a whitewoman, and so we grew up with
(14:48):
that story.
We knew his mother.
His mother went to the samechurch that my aunt and my
mother went to years earlier, achurch called Robert's Temple,
Church of God in Christ or 40th,people from Chicago will know.
And so we knew his mother, whoinsisted on an open casket in
(15:09):
1955 to show how her son wasbrutally murdered.
So my mother was very, veryconcerned, not so much about the
army, I guess.
She was very concerned about megoing to the deep South, and so
I left that next morning to goto South Carolina and I was down
(15:31):
there for boot camp and intraining, subsequent training,
and was blessed to earn thehighest enlisted rank that a
person can achieve and that isCommand Sergeant, major E9.
So very, very blessed aboutthat.
Grantley (15:48):
Did you specialize in anything in the army, or was it
multiple different duties?
Phil (15:54):
The first unit that I ended up with or in was an air
defense artillery unit, and Iwas in that unit in a remote
part of Germany, and so that wassort of my first specialty unit
, if you will.
And then I did a number ofother special assignments,
(16:17):
nominative assignments.
I was in the NATO alliance, theNorth Atlantic Treaty
Organization alliance that ofcourse still exists today.
Grantley (16:27):
So then you get out to military and you're now still
pretty young, can still haveanother career or two.
How did you get intotransportation?
Was that like many of us whoended up there unintentionally
instead, or was it a plannedtransition?
Phil (16:48):
It was unintentional, it was very unintentional, like
most of us getting intotransportation I had.
My last duty station was inColorado.
So I came up from El Paso,texas, fort Bliss, texas, and I
(17:08):
got an assignment to come up toColorado.
At that time I probably hadabout 21 years in.
I was newly promoted to the topenlisted rank and got orders to
come here to Colorado.
A lot of people think I'm fromColorado but I came up here on a
(17:30):
military assignment and so Iwas up here for, I guess, about
two and a half years and I gotorders to go to Korea from
Colorado.
And I thought about in thosedays, the Korea assignment with
(17:50):
the US Army was one year oneyear unaccompanied, it's called
where you cannot take yourfamily, and by that time my
daughters had been in and out ofdifferent schools.
My second oldest daughter wentto three high schools in four
(18:12):
years.
It was very, very tough movingthem around.
And so I got these orders and Ithought I would do that one
year unaccompanied, which didn'tsound like a big deal for me at
that time.
And just as I was going toaccept those orders, the US Army
(18:35):
and their infinite wisdom ofcourse decided to change that
policy from one yearunaccompanied to two years
unaccompanied, and that is whatchanged my mind.
I submitted my retirementpapers.
I did not have a job oranything, but I had 12 months to
find a job, so I was not reallyworried about it.
(18:55):
And I saw an ad in thenewspaper right about that time
and the ad talked about atransportation executive job.
I think it was assistantgeneral manager or sort of like
a deputy at the regionaltransportation district in
Denver, colorado, and I answeredthat ad and so I said you know,
(19:16):
I'm going to go down here andjust check it out.
And it was all completely on awhim and I drove in and I ended
up talking to the CEO of theagency at that time.
Unfortunately, he was a Vietnamveteran and he understood my
level of responsibility at thattime in the military and I think
(19:36):
he asked me two or threequestions, that was it.
And he said you know what?
I think we got a good fit.
He said I think we got a goodfit and he offered me the job.
You know it was like 78,000 ayear.
I was like, yeah, but my onlyproblem was that I still had 12
months in the military.
(19:58):
And to finish up this quickstory.
When I got the job offer, Icalled my buddy at the Pentagon
His name was Larry Strickland,he was a SAR major as well and I
called him up and I said, hey,listen, I got a job man, I got
to get out to Army.
And he said, well, you got 12months to go, phil.
And he said, well, you know,the best I can do is cut off six
(20:22):
months of that 12 months, whichhe did.
And I called that CEO back andI told him the situation and he
said you know what?
We will wait for you, that sixmonths.
And I thought, well, is this,is this not divine providence or
what you know I get?
I get six months chopped offand I got this guy saying that
(20:43):
he's gonna wait for me for theother six months, and he did,
and that's how I got intransportation.
Grantley (20:51):
Okay, well, could be.
That's that definitely divineprovidence.
So you enter transportationwithout without really being a
public transportation expert andthose kind of things, works
your way up to become the CEOand not just of Denver RTD, but
of one of the even largertransit agencies, la Metro,
(21:16):
where you were the CEO there aswell.
So you must have some prettygreat leadership skills and
bringing people together.
You know, how did you, how didyou make that transition?
How did you?
You bring those organizationstogether?
Because those of us who knowyou know your reputation,
anybody in the transportationindustry know that Phil
Washington, if he runs anorganization, it's gonna be our
(21:37):
unit, an organization ofexcellence.
So tell us about a little bit,about your leadership style and
how you were able to make thosetransitions and to make it
successful and to be the CEO ofDenver International Airport,
which is one of the fastestrising airports in the country.
Phil (21:54):
Well, well, thank you for for for saying that sort of
about my reputation.
It all starts with a very, verystrong spiritual foundation and
I am blessed to have had thatand had that now, a very
spiritually strong foundationwhere and that comes, of course,
(22:21):
from my upbringing in thechurch, that comes from my
mother, that comes fromeverybody around me Growing up
as a, as a young man, a youngboy and a young man, and in that
, in that environment, and so Istart there, and then, in terms
of leadership, I've always feltlike that I had to be a
(22:47):
collaborator and I always feltlike that I could bring both a
commanding presence along with acompassionate persona.
And I've never ascribed to Anyone leadership style.
(23:09):
I've never ascribed to anauthoritative leadership style,
always or In always a democraticstyle.
I believe in sort of asituational style of leadership,
because when you walk into anyorganization, I've always said
(23:29):
that when you know walking in anorganization, it's almost like
a foreign substance beinginjected into a living organism
when you walk into anorganization, now that that
Organism will either change you,the leader, or you will change
the organization.
Yes, and, by the way, my moneyhas always been on me, you know
(23:55):
so.
So I think I think theleadership style has to be
situational, I think it has tobe collaborative, I think it has
to be both commanding andcompassionate and for me, above
all, it has to be anchored by aspiritual foundation.
(24:20):
Not that you walk around, youknow, with this, you know the
spiritual thing on the back ofyou, know on your collar or
whatever, but but but thatpeople understand that one,
you're not gonna be rattled by,you know just anything gait
(24:43):
About you.
And because I think it givesstrength to the organization
when people see that steady,sort of Solid leadership in
organizations.
And so if I had to pointsomething out, it would be those
things where, with theunderstanding, as my friend at
(25:05):
Harvard says, he says this aboutleadership.
He says that leadership is theart of disappointing people at a
rate that they can absorb, andI've never forgot that during my
leadership.
One of the principles that afriend of mine talks about is
(25:28):
this idea, and this is in thecontext of getting things done.
He says proceed untilapprehended.
So I've always ascribed to thattoo, because you can analyze
things and tell the wholeorganization is paralyzed, or
(25:49):
you can do things, becausethat's what we're there for as
leaders is to get things done.
Grantley (25:55):
Yeah, that's a great print.
There's a two great principles.
A leadership we should, weshould probably do a podcast on
leadership with you and a coupleof the other guys just Just
talking about leadership there.
You, you've got that.
Now you run three organizationsand you've risen to those
levels.
But you you've also talkedabout your spiritual foundation.
(26:18):
So let's talk about your fifthjourney, if you don't mind going
into that a little bit moreabout and I know it started in
In in with your mama, at homeand at a church.
But how, how was your spiritualjourney developed to the point
to where it's integrated andeverything that you do today?
Phil (26:36):
Well, I think, growing up in church and by the way, I
hated it then I have to say youknow I'll be at a church all the
time, but as an only son, mymother took me everywhere.
My mother, of course, to churchwe had to go, but also my
(26:58):
mother visited a lot of olderpeople that what we used to call
in those days, the sick andshut in, the shut in yes, I
remember, yeah, yeah youremember that term?
Yes, and so my mother was.
She was a young woman, you knowit was.
She had five of us by the timeshe was 24 years old, okay.
(27:20):
But so she was a young woman,but she was sort of old at heart
and she taught us that she, shewould make sure that if there
were prominent speakers Comingto the city of Chicago.
So I tell the story in 1967, asa youngster, I might have been
(27:41):
seven or eight years old, beingat a place called Marquette Park
in In 1967, listening to MartinLuther King in that park, where
he got hit in the head with arock and he said that that was
the most.
That crowd in Chicago, on thewhite side of town, was the most
(28:03):
hostile crowd that he had everfaced, even in the south.
So this faith journey we alwaysview things through the prism of
faith.
Anything that was happening, mymother say you know, you know,
that's God's will.
Now, you know, you know.
So it was through this prism offaith that we view things, and
(28:26):
so that's sort of shapedeverything that I did Growing up
, and so I was always veryattentive.
Also, growing up in the church,my first mentor Was the church
(28:47):
janitor, who had a fifth-gradeor education, but he would just
Just counsel me as best hecould and he was a deacon.
And finally, I'll say, just thesearch for knowledge around
(29:10):
those kinds of things haspropelled me, even up to now.
Grantley (29:19):
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(29:39):
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Last year you had the privilegeof achieving one the highest
honors in in transportation inthis country, in public
transportation in particular, tobe nominated and received the
(30:02):
honor of being welcomed into thetransportation Hall of Fame,
which is a high honor that notmany people get.
But at that honor you mentionedthat you were there because of
the prayers of your mother andthe power of her prayers to
carry you through the years.
Could you talk a little bitabout that speech you gave and
(30:24):
why you based your acceptancespeech on the power and the
prayers of your mother?
Phil (30:32):
Well, first of all, I'm very honored to to have been
inducted into the transportationhall of fame.
It was something that I was notexpecting, so I'm very honored
that people saw fit and that theAmerican Public Transportation
Association saw fit to adoptme into the Hall of Fame.
(30:52):
The first thing I thought aboutwas this is not all about me,
right?
You know, being inducted intothe Hall of Fame it was.
I talked about the prayers ofmy mother when I left to go into
the military.
My mother, she didn't have anymoney to give me or anything
(31:14):
like that, and she began to talkabout this idea of a spiritual
Inheritance, a spiritualinheritance that she was going
to leave me.
And you know, my mother diedearly, many years ago, and she
(31:37):
began to even talk about thiswhen she was a younger woman,
this idea of a spiritualinheritance, not riches or
anything, because she didn'thave anything to leave me, but
this idea of a spiritualinheritance.
And so she said that you know,I will be praying for you.
I will be praying for you.
(31:58):
Now.
This was a.
This was very, very bankable.
This was like a currency.
This was very, very real, youknow, to her, and it's real to
me as well.
But this was very, very real toher.
It was almost as if I'm givingyou a brand new house or a brand
(32:20):
new car.
I mean, I'm giving you thisbankable, sustainable thing here
that, wherever you are, youwill know that I am praying for
you.
Yes, and it becomes even morereal for me every day.
(32:45):
And it became even more real forme when I was thinking about
what to say at this inductionthing.
And you know, I know a lot ofpeople get up and they say, well
, you know we did this and that.
And you know, in my career, youknow all of that.
I was really not thinking aboutanything I did in my career at
(33:05):
that time when I said that.
I was thinking about how theprayers of my mother sustained
me throughout.
All of the dangers of themilitary, all of the tough
decisions that I had to make inmy life, all of these various
(33:26):
things.
When you know there's ayogi-bearism that says, when you
reach the fork in the road,take it Right.
And so all of these differentdecisions that I had to make, I
always thought, when I was aboutto make those, that my mother
(33:46):
is and was praying for me.
So I have faith that I willmake the right call here.
And, by the way, the Good Booksays that even though folks are
gone, their prayers are stillbeing honored.
Right, the prayers of my motherare sustainable, they're
redundant, they are bankable,they are scalable, all of those
(34:12):
kinds of things, and I thoughtabout that then and I thought
about that now.
Grantley (34:18):
That's powerful.
That's powerful and it remindsme of my mother, because she was
a very deep woman of faith,where he has eight children, and
when I was leaving to come tothe United States to go to
school, she was very poor,didn't have much money, and she
said the same thing silver andgold have I none, but in the
name of Jesus Christ, I send youand I'll be praying for you.
(34:38):
Right, that's powerful.
Phil (34:40):
That's powerful man that has sustained you too.
Grantley (34:43):
It has sustained me and carried me many ways and you
know, like you said, it'sprobably better than a pile of
money.
Right, Because a pile of moneywould have been spent by the
time we graduated.
Right, Because it cost theschool but the prayers keep
giving and giving, and givingand giving.
Right, that's right, they don'trun out.
So you know, when you're youngyou think, man, I could sure use
(35:05):
a couple of thousand dollars.
But as you get older yourealize that what she give you
was even more than thousands ofdollars.
And it pays back.
And it doesn't depend on theeconomy, it doesn't depend on
anything.
Those prayers just go up andthey're honored by God and they
sustain you and even protect yousometimes.
That you don't even know, right?
Phil (35:27):
Oh, absolutely, yeah, I mean protection.
Grantley (35:31):
So let's transition a little bit here.
Then I'm talking about you know.
You talk about your faith andyour mother's prayers, and then
you moved into the military.
You're now CEO of manyorganizations, multiple
organizations.
You got to lead the BidenTransportation Transition Team.
By the way, I forgot to mention, you're also the CEO of the
(35:53):
American Public TransportationAssociation for a while.
But what that is from a faithand a race standpoint, right,
when you achieve those kinds ofthings, you were achieving them
in places where people that looklike you and me are not
normally in those high seats,and even if we're in the room as
(36:14):
an executive or as a deputy oras a senior manager, usually
there are not many of us,sometimes it's only one or two.
So how has your color, has yourrace, your where you came from,
your faith?
Has there ever been a challengefor you in leadership I mean,
(36:36):
where people thought that maybeyou were not competent or
qualified and you were onlythere because of some
affirmative action or somethingand question your competency and
your capability?
Phil (36:51):
Well, a couple of things that I think about.
Well, you're gonna always havepeople that challenge you, and
it could be because of yourcolor, because of the perception
that when you walk in the roomyou might not know leaders of
color, women, women as well.
(37:12):
So I think about a couple ofthings and I'm blessed, actually
, that I come with a degree ofconfidence in my ability.
So I think you gotta haveconfidence.
Self-confidence it's notarrogance, because there's a
(37:33):
difference, right, it's notarrogance, it's a sense of
confidence in your abilities,that you are qualified.
And I've always been verycognizant that I may have to do
(37:55):
more because of how I look, andI'm willing to do that and I've
done that and I've done more inevery job than was expected of
me.
And so I think the confidencepiece is very, very crucial.
When I was in the military,especially when I reached senior
(38:17):
levels, I used to counsel youngsoldiers of color and I would
tell young soldiers, listen,when you have to salute a senior
officer and that sort of thing,commission officers, look them
straight in the eye.
You shake their hand, you lookthem straight in the eye,
(38:39):
because there were someyoungsters that did not have
that self-confidence, that wouldgaze at the ground and things
like that.
And so many times as a youngman I had to say prayers to
myself to instill confidence asyou walk in the room, and I do
(39:07):
that to this day.
When I walk in to speak tolarge groups and things.
I pray for that confidence andpray for that self-assuredness,
even now.
And so, yes, there are going tobe times where people look at
you because of the color of yourskin or because, in the case of
(39:32):
women, their gender or anythingelse.
They are going to sometimes walkin a room and be perceived
differently, and I think it's upto us to to overcome that in
many ways with our ownself-confidence.
(39:52):
My mother used to say encourageyourself, son.
Do not depend always on peopleto encourage you.
You have to learn to encourageyourself.
And I think, despite and inspite of all of the negative
perceptions that we may have asleaders of color, senior leaders
(40:16):
of color, we've got to find away internally to overcome that
within ourselves.
And however we do that, we haveto make sure that it works for
us, because, at the end of theday, a youngster of color or
someone that is junior to us islooking to us as to how we're
(40:41):
going to handle that situation,and so we're not in there just
for us.
We're in there in many casesfor a number of other people
that see themselves in us, andso I've always thought that I
have an obligation to overcomeany negative biases, any
(41:01):
prejudices.
I've got an obligation to dothat for the people that are
looking up to me and for mymother, even back then.
Grantley (41:15):
So you had a unique opportunity.
I mean, you've had many, manyunique opportunities, I guess,
but one of them was to be theleader of the President Biden's
transportation transition team.
I mean, what is a transitionteam?
But how do you even get to bethe leader of that and what is
(41:36):
the purpose of it?
What is it trying to accomplish?
Phil (41:39):
It's multi-purpose, I think.
First of all.
So one is to assess the agencythat you are doing the
transition for.
So, in the case of thetransportation transition team,
our job was to assess the agency, to determine where the agency
(42:05):
was an agency means Departmentof Transportation.
Grantley (42:08):
Yes, the Department of Transportation.
Phil (42:11):
About 54,000 employees in that in US Department of
Transportation.
So to assess that US DOP, whatis it doing well, what is it not
doing well?
The Department is made up ofsome 10 different agencies, if
(42:33):
you will.
You have the Federal TransitAdministration, you have the
Federal Aviation Administration,you have the Federal Highway
Administration, so you havemultiple agencies, I'll say,
within that Department ofTransportation.
And so you're assessing all ofthose.
And so what this requires andI'll have to say that we had the
(42:58):
best team and the greatestminds, I think, in this country
that were on that team, thatteam and let me just say, before
that transition team, I washonored to co-chair the
Biden-Harris Policy Committee,and that was before the
(43:20):
transition team.
So the Policy Committee was madeup of 300 people here in this
country.
Trust me when I say that thesewere some outstanding,
incredibly intelligent people intransportation.
The job of that PolicyCommittee was to put together
(43:44):
proposed policies and executiveorders for consideration by the
campaign.
We put together, I think,probably about a hundred
proposed policies and executiveorders for the administration's,
the campaign's, consideration.
So I was asked to co-chair thatwith a number of other
(44:09):
individuals, folks like JohnPicari and others.
Then after that came thetransition team and was asked to
lead the transition team.
That was 20 people, so these 20people were outstanding folks
too, and we were asked to assessthe Department of
(44:32):
Transportation and also preparethe nominee the nominee being
the Secretary of Transportation,prepare him for confirmation.
The team that we put togetheragain one of the 20 best minds
(44:53):
in the business.
We did it by subject matter andwe put that team together.
So I'm just honored that I wasasked to captain that team.
I think we did a great job ofpreparing the new administration
in the field of transportationand it resulted in the
(45:14):
bipartisan infrastructure billthe largest infrastructure bill
that this generation willprobably ever see.
So we're proud of that work.
Grantley (45:24):
That's an honor, that is a great honor.
For 15 years we had been, we intransportation, campaign for an
infrastructure bill.
Right now we got it.
We had workers, we hadequipment we had everything.
When we finally got it, covidcame in.
Now we don't have enough people, we don't have enough equipment
(45:48):
.
We got logistics issues right,so it's finally here and now to
make it happen.
It's a tall order to make ithappen, just because how the
world has changed from when wefirst started talking about
infrastructure revamping in thecountry right.
Phil (46:10):
Yeah, if it's not one thing, it's another thing, but
there's no shortage of work tobe done, man.
We got to keep fighting.
Grantley (46:21):
Yeah, and one of the things that you are really good
at is helping encouraging smallbusinesses and disadvantaged
businesses minority-ownedbusinesses to find opportunity
in places where they struggle,and you sort of built a
reputation on that.
Would you mind talking a littlebit about the latest initiative
(46:42):
that you're doing to help smallbusinesses?
Phil (46:47):
Yeah, yeah, I mean first of all, as you know, grant Lee,
and you know you're one of theleaders in the transportation
industry as well you know smalland minority and women-owned,
veteran-owned businesses.
They are the lifeblood of thisnation's economy.
(47:08):
They're the lifeblood.
You know, I've always felt thatway.
I've always felt like we haveto do what we can on the public
sector side to sustain them,sustain them through ongoing
contracts, to sustain themthrough work in the
infrastructure space.
(47:29):
It's one thing to have abipartisan infrastructure bill
of 1.2 trillion that's great butit's quite another thing to
make sure that that work isspread amongst small and
minority businesses andunderserved communities.
(47:51):
It's quite another thing toensure that it, you know, this
bill, the benefits of this bill,reach those underserved
communities and so small andminority businesses are a part
of those underserved communities.
The work that we're doing inwhat we call the equity in
(48:11):
infrastructure project reallystemmed from an executive order
that we helped draft early onduring the transition team in
the policy committee.
We drafted this executive, orproposed executive order that
talked about increasinggenerational wealth in
(48:35):
underserved communities and wedrafted that up and it turned
into executive order 13985.
Executive order 13985.
And what it said was thatgovernment agencies should put a
plan in place to determine howequity could be realized in the
(49:00):
infrastructure space.
And so we are happy to reportand we were happy to see that
the president, president Biden,signed that executive order on
his first day in office, hisfirst day in office, this
executive order that originatedfrom that policy committee that
(49:26):
we co-chaired.
And so we looked at thatexecutive order.
It was great that it was signedand it's still great that the
president signed it.
But we began to think about howwe could operationalize that
executive order.
How can we actually make thiswork?
Because, look, there's a lot ofpolicies out there that they
(49:49):
look good on paper andeverything, but how do you make
sure that it reaches and thatit's impactful for communities
that it was designed for, inthis case, underserved
communities?
So we thought that we couldoperationalize it through
procurement.
We thought that, you know, ifwe go to the CEOs of various
(50:13):
agencies and have them to commitand pledge to award look to
award more contract, primecontracts, not just subcontracts
but prime contracts, if we canhave them commit to this idea of
awarding more prime contractsto minority firms, that would
(50:38):
trickle down to more hiring andunderserved communities.
And we started with five CEOs.
We asked them we want you tocommit to awarding more award of
prime contracts to minorityfirms and on December 7, 2021,
(51:00):
we had a kickoff of this meetingof this group, these five CEOs,
in Washington DC, the ChicagoTransit Authority, CPTA in
Philadelphia, with the word thetwo transit agencies.
We wanted a water district, sowe have the Metropolitan Water
District of Los Angeles County.
(51:21):
We wanted a port, and so we hadthe port of Long Beach, in Long
Beach, California, and I'll letyou guess which airport.
It committed.
And so you fast forward to theday and we have almost 60 CEOs
that have committed and aredoing their work to make sure
(51:44):
more awards, more prime contractawards, are awarded to minority
firms.
So we're still working andwe're still fighting, but this
is a incredible effort led bymyself, my buddy, John Picari,
the former Deputy Secretary ofTransportation, Dorval Carter,
(52:06):
the CEO of Chicago TransitAuthority, and others.
So we're doing our part andwe're going to do more as well.
Grantley (52:16):
Thank you, I know we ran up on our time, but I got a
couple more things I want to getin quickly.
I think I would be remiss if Ididn't ask you about your
nomination for the FAA, and if Idon't, the fellows are going to
all let me know.
You didn't talk about that andyou were nominated.
It was an unsuccessfulnomination.
(52:38):
You end up withdrawing.
Is there anything you want tosay about that?
Phil (52:42):
Yeah Well, first of all, I'm honored by the president for
nominating me.
When it became clear that itwould be a drawn out process, I
withdrew, mostly because there'stoo much work to be done with
too little time for all of us todraw a process out, and so when
(53:10):
I did not see a civil and aviable path to confirmation, I
stepped away, and I think thatif we are to do the work of the
people, sometimes we have tofind it in other ways, and that
(53:34):
is where I ended up.
There was some debate about mymilitary career.
There's a little known statute,a little known statute that
says the FAA administrator mustbe a civilian, and there was
debate on both sides of theaisle of whether my active duty
(53:58):
military career and I've beenretired for 20 years now there
was a debate of whether I wasnow a civilian or whether I
could be called back to themilitary, and this statute says
that you have to be a civilianto be the FAA administrator.
(54:19):
I thought it's an outdatedstatute myself, and then I also
thought that if I am called backto the military, we will
probably be in real trouble thiscountry.
Yeah, because first I got tosqueeze into my uniform, but I
am at peace with it.
(54:39):
There's much, much work for usto do out here, and I'll just
say that what we talked aboutearlier, a strong spiritual
foundation, helps with thesekinds of decisions as well.
But one of the biblicalscriptures that I meditated on
(55:01):
then and I meditate on now saysthat we should focus on God's
will and our work in ourgeneration.
King David actuallyconcentrated on his work and
(55:24):
God's will in his own generation, and this is our generation,
and so I don't have time forlong processes and all of that
when there's so much work outhere to do, and that was my
mindset during that season of mylife.
Grantley (55:43):
So, as we wrap this up , I thank you for your time and
we've covered many topics.
There's probably some personallisteners and people listening
and saying how do I develop, howdo I get to that point where I
build that self-confidence,where I develop as a leader, a
compassionate leader,collaborator?
How do I deal with some ofthese things and become to the
(56:06):
point where I can become thateffective leader?
What advice or tools would yougive?
Phil (56:14):
Well, there's many.
I'll focus on just a couplethat have worked for me Having
some sort of spiritualfoundation.
Whatever that is, because intough times you have to, I think
, lean on something.
Now I don't lean on no drugsand you gotta lean on something.
(56:40):
It has to be something, and sothe idea of a spiritual
foundation is very, veryimportant to me.
Another important thing isconsistent and constant learning
that you are preparing yourselfand whether that is books or
(57:04):
formal education, whatever thatis, you're constantly learning,
learning something and alsoteaching somebody what you have
learned, whether that's yourkids or with or with brothers,
like we often do, and I think wehave to lean on that.
(57:25):
During some of my toughesttimes, I had brothers call me,
you included Grantley, and thankyou.
But we need that.
We need that when we hear thatbrothers and sisters and folks
(57:46):
are going through tough times,we should pick up the phone and
we should call them.
Grantley (57:50):
That's right yeah, not just text them or like a
message on Instagram.
Phil (57:57):
Exactly exactly.
There is nothing likeencouragement, there is nothing
like it, and so I'm appreciativeof friends and brothers and
sisters out there that havecalled me, so something to lean
on.
The other advice I would giveis in all that we do acknowledge
(58:24):
God.
Acknowledge God, because Ithink we have to acknowledge a
higher being, because we see itevery day.
We go outside, we see it everyday.
I mean the trees and the birdsand everything.
So I think in all that we do,my advice is to acknowledge that
(58:50):
there's something greater.
There's something greater thanus out here.
We're not doing this on our ownstrength, right?
And so that would be some of myadvice that I would give to
folks that are coming up.
(59:12):
I was talking to some youngleaders just last week and I was
saying that leadership is socyclical in terms of the
psychological nature ofleadership, I mean you could be
up one day and down the next.
In transportation realm, youcan have your operations.
(59:36):
Your operations chief can comein and say, hey, listen, we had
a great day today and nobody washurt on the trains or the buses
or the airplanes or at theairport or whatever, and that's
great.
But then the very an hour lateryou can have somebody say we
just had a derailment.
Grantley (59:55):
Yeah, we've had a major incident.
Phil (59:59):
So the psychological ups and downs of leadership are
incredible and we have to beable to withstand that, and I
think the only way, one of theways to sustain and be strong in
all of that, is to have somesort of spiritual center of
(01:00:21):
gravity that you can lean on.
I think that's very important.
Grantley (01:00:27):
Well, that's some really good advice and I'm sure
many people will be able to leanon that, or if they think about
it and help them in developingtheir leadership style and
developing their leadershipability.
I think one of the things youreally strengthened you really
spoke about earlier wasdeveloping your leadership style
within you.
(01:00:48):
Right, you had to realize whatyou were doing and realize what
it was that was within you thatcould help you walk into a room
and create that atmosphere ofchange which is very important.
So anything else you would wantto share before we sign off here
.
Phil (01:01:10):
Well, just to thank you, and thank you for what you're
doing, Grantley, I think it'svery, very important, it's very
important to lift somebody up,and so I know all of us try to
do that in things, that we dothe idea of lifting people up
instead of tearing them down.
(01:01:31):
And so I think if we focus onthat, I think our lives will be
better, our careers will bebetter, and it's really the
ultimate succession plan.
Grantley (01:01:46):
You know, if we get other folks ready to take our
place, Remember to subscribe andleave a rate in on the site
where you're currently listeningto this episode, and when you
(01:02:08):
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@abovethenoise24.
Welcome to Above the Noise, a podcast at the
intersection of faith, race andreconciliation, and I'm your
host, Grantley Martelly.
My guest today is Mr.
Phil Washington, a friend, abrother and someone that I'm
(00:33):
really excited about talkingabout today.
I think that you, as myaudience, will learn a lot from
Phil.
We learn a lot together.
Phil is the current CEO of theDenver International Airport,
former CEO of Los Angeles Metroand the Denver Regional
Transportation District.
He was also the head ofPresident Biden's transition
(00:53):
team for transportation, servedan illustrious 24-year career in
the US Army and is leading andmentoring many young people and
business people to be successfulin our industry.
So I am extremely thankful thatyou are here, Phil, and I'm
thankful for your impact on mylife in the time that we've
(01:15):
known each other.
Phil (01:17):
Well, thank you so much, Grantley, for having me here,
and I applaud you for your work,not only on this and doing the
podcast, but your work aroundthe country and inspiring people
, especially people of color.
Grantley (01:33):
Thank you.
So let's begin by introducingyourself to our audience.
Tell them where you werebrought up and some things about
you growing up, your family,you married or not, before they
get to know a little bit aboutyou, before we start talking
about the specifics.
Phil (01:49):
Yeah, well, let me start with where I was born and all
that was born on the south sideof Chicago, a single mother who
worked 14 hours a day.
I grew up with five sisters andpeople say, well, five sisters,
(02:09):
wow, that's you were spoiled orsomething.
So they make that assumption.
That's an incorrect assumption.
Four of my sisters were olderthan me, and so what that means
is you deal with a lot of guysthat's older than you,
protecting their honor, if youwill.
(02:30):
So I never really knew myfather.
I met him after I was a littlebit older, but it was a lot of
love in our family.
My grandmother actually livedwith us and raised us, and that
(02:51):
was a blessing as well.
And it was a blessing that wehad the values, if you will, of
both my mother and mygrandmother, and their values
were very, very faith-based,which we can talk about.
And, having said that, I wasvery, very close to both my
(03:18):
grandmother and my grandfatherand, of course, my mother had
one sister and one brother andwas very, very close to them,
and my first cousins as well.
I am married and have fourchildren, three girls, one son.
(03:42):
So my son is an only son aswell.
So there you go, but wouldn'ttrade that in that upbringing in
for anything because of thevalues and the priorities that
came with it.
Grantley (03:58):
Thank you.
So many people say I grew up onthe south side of Chicago or I
grew up in the Bronx, or thereare places in the United States,
in LA, if you grew up in Watts.
That has a certain meaning topeople in the United States.
But for some of our audience,people who are not familiar with
(04:19):
that, what does it mean whenyou say you grew up on the south
side of Chicago?
Does that?
Have any special meaning.
Phil (04:26):
I think it does.
I think it comes with, for meanyway, a certain awareness that
I have embedded in me.
I'll just call it street savvy.
Not that anyone else does nothave it, but a certain street
(04:46):
savvy that comes with that.
I mean, I remember when I wasin the military I would tell
people that I was born andraised on the south side of
Chicago and they wouldimmediately have a certain
perception of what I was, andsometimes, most of the time,
(05:08):
actually, it was not.
I won't say it was not good, butit came with this sort of
perception that I was slick andyou couldn't get anything over
on me and all of that.
And so I'll also say thatpeople from the south side of
(05:29):
Chicago they may be the onlyones that I know, and I know
folks from New York and theBronx and different places, but
south side of Chicago folks arethe only ones that specifically
identify themselves from whatside of the city they're on.
It's the south side, I mean.
(05:51):
Folks from New York, they don'tsay the south side of the Bronx
, they just say the Bronx, andso that distinction has always
stayed with me and anybody thatyou hear, that you meet, that
were raised on the south side ofChicago will probably identify
(06:12):
themselves that way.
Grantley (06:14):
Okay, but that's good to know, because sometimes
people who didn't grow up in theUnited States hear those things
and say well, what does thatreally mean?
Let's talk a little bit aboutyour career.
You left high school and joinedthe military.
Talk a little bit about that,and then we'll be talking about
(06:35):
your transition totransportation.
Phil (06:38):
Yeah, so was in high school, was not really sure what
I would do and I don't tellthis story often, I'm not sure
for you, Grantley, because Ilike you, but I was not a great
student in high school and I hada pretty long rap sheet in high
(07:03):
school, I guess.
And so in October of my senioryear, I was actually expelled
from high school for doing somecrazy things with some crazy
guys and I was expelled.
And at that time in my life Iwas 17 years old.
(07:25):
At that time in my life I justthought you know what, I'll just
be expelled and I'll just getsome job, some little job, and
I'll survive and I'll just do mything.
I did not tell my mother I wasexpelled.
It took me probably about aweek, or maybe even two weeks,
(07:47):
before I got up the nerve totell her and I thought that I
would just.
I thought she would just feelthe same thought.
I thought she would say, youjust go ahead and do your own
things and you're on your own.
Instead, it was the first timethat I saw my mother get very
(08:07):
emotional and pretty muchbreakdown, because and this was
a very tough woman, very, verytough woman, and I had never
seen that before.
She said, hey, listen, I'mtaking off from work and we're
going up to the school.
She told that assistantprincipal, I must have my son,
(08:28):
my son must graduate, my onlyson must graduate.
And she broke down right thereat you know, in the office there
, and it surprised me, and itsurprised the vice principal as
well, who had a change of heartand who said we will allow him
(08:48):
back into high school, but hehas to do two or three things,
which I was willing to do.
And so that was sort of mysignificant emotional event, or
C people call it, and I wasallowed back in, not until
January.
So this was October.
(09:11):
So during that time that I wasout, I went to night school, I
did a lot of different things tocatch up, and me and a buddy
went down to the recruitingoffice and we joined right there
.
We lied about our age, so muchso that you had to be 18.
I lied and said I was 18.
, so much so that my records,almost 25 years later, when I
(09:36):
retired, I actually had adifferent birth date.
Right, yeah, it was crazy.
And so that's how I joined themilitary.
I joined on a delayed entryprogram because you had to be a
high school graduate even then,and so that delayed entry
(09:58):
program allows you to come in,sign in, sign up at that time
and go six months later.
And so I went and left in Juneof that next year.
So that's kind of how I joined.
It was not something I plannedto join the military or anything
(10:18):
, but something that was.
You could call it divineprovidence, if you will.
Grantley (10:25):
Okay, was your mom supportive of that?
Phil (10:29):
My mom was scared because keep in mind that well, not keep
in mind, but this was this Ijoined in I think it was
December of 1975.
And so the Vietnam War had justended in April of 1975.
(10:50):
So a few months earlier theVietnam War had ended and here I
am, joined in the military.
So I think my mother was morescared than anything, but she
knew that I had to do somethingand she knew that I had to get
(11:11):
out of Chicago and there was alot of stress that I was under
as well, because another thing Ididn't tell you, that I didn't
mention, was I had a young girlpregnant too, in November of
(11:32):
1975.
And so actually the baby wasborn in November of 1975.
So you talk about pressure onme, but on the young lady too.
So October I'm kicked out ofschool.
October my girl had a baby.
(11:52):
She's born daughter.
In December I signed up for themilitary.
So it was a lot of stuff goingon around that time.
Grantley (12:00):
Yeah, a lot of stuff.
Are you still in contact withthat child?
Phil (12:06):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely , absolutely.
Just talked to her yesterday.
She's a beautiful young lady, aregistered nurse living in the
city of Chicago, so that's myoldest daughter.
Grantley (12:19):
That's great.
Well, congratulations, thankyou.
However, with that stressfulsign up for the military, you
happen to rise to some of thehighest ranks of the enlisted I
think the highest rank that youcould go as an enlisted person
(12:40):
in the army.
So it seems like it fits youpretty well, would you say yeah.
Phil (12:46):
Yeah, so you know, I left Chicago on June 29, 1976.
And the blessing of that wasthat the night before June 28,
1976, my mother married and Iwas so happy for my mother who
(13:13):
married a very, very good man,who was actually a minister and,
as I said, I, you know, did notknow my natural father very
well, but I was so happy thatactually my mother was marrying
(13:35):
remarrying, if you will and thisman was moving her out of the
public housing or the projectsthat we grew up in.
This was the most I felt goodabout leaving.
Yeah, I'll put it that way,because I was concerned about my
mother's.
My sisters were a little bitolder.
They were leaving the house.
I was concerned about my motherstill being out there in my
(14:00):
leaving, and so the night beforewas probably even better than
me leaving the next morning.
At 4 am in the morning mymother was concerned that I was
going to the South.
I went down to South Carolina.
The racial tensions, as you knowgladly, in the South was not
(14:26):
too far removed.
Right, you know, being fromChicago, we grew up with the
story of Emmett Till.
Emmett Till was a young boy of14 years old that was sent down
to the South in 1955 and wasmurdered in the South for
allegedly whistling at a whitewoman, and so we grew up with
(14:48):
that story.
We knew his mother.
His mother went to the samechurch that my aunt and my
mother went to years earlier, achurch called Robert's Temple,
Church of God in Christ or 40th,people from Chicago will know.
And so we knew his mother, whoinsisted on an open casket in
(15:09):
1955 to show how her son wasbrutally murdered.
So my mother was very, veryconcerned, not so much about the
army, I guess.
She was very concerned about megoing to the deep South, and so
I left that next morning to goto South Carolina and I was down
(15:31):
there for boot camp and intraining, subsequent training,
and was blessed to earn thehighest enlisted rank that a
person can achieve and that isCommand Sergeant, major E9.
So very, very blessed aboutthat.
Grantley (15:48):
Did you specialize in anything in the army, or was it
multiple different duties?
Phil (15:54):
The first unit that I ended up with or in was an air
defense artillery unit, and Iwas in that unit in a remote
part of Germany, and so that wassort of my first specialty unit
, if you will.
And then I did a number ofother special assignments,
(16:17):
nominative assignments.
I was in the NATO alliance, theNorth Atlantic Treaty
Organization alliance that ofcourse still exists today.
Grantley (16:27):
So then you get out to military and you're now still
pretty young, can still haveanother career or two.
How did you get intotransportation?
Was that like many of us whoended up there unintentionally
instead, or was it a plannedtransition?
Phil (16:48):
It was unintentional, it was very unintentional, like
most of us getting intotransportation I had.
My last duty station was inColorado.
So I came up from El Paso,texas, fort Bliss, texas, and I
(17:08):
got an assignment to come up toColorado.
At that time I probably hadabout 21 years in.
I was newly promoted to the topenlisted rank and got orders to
come here to Colorado.
A lot of people think I'm fromColorado but I came up here on a
(17:30):
military assignment and so Iwas up here for, I guess, about
two and a half years and I gotorders to go to Korea from
Colorado.
And I thought about in thosedays, the Korea assignment with
(17:50):
the US Army was one year oneyear unaccompanied, it's called
where you cannot take yourfamily, and by that time my
daughters had been in and out ofdifferent schools.
My second oldest daughter wentto three high schools in four
(18:12):
years.
It was very, very tough movingthem around.
And so I got these orders and Ithought I would do that one
year unaccompanied, which didn'tsound like a big deal for me at
that time.
And just as I was going toaccept those orders, the US Army
(18:35):
and their infinite wisdom ofcourse decided to change that
policy from one yearunaccompanied to two years
unaccompanied, and that is whatchanged my mind.
I submitted my retirementpapers.
I did not have a job oranything, but I had 12 months to
find a job, so I was not reallyworried about it.
(18:55):
And I saw an ad in thenewspaper right about that time
and the ad talked about atransportation executive job.
I think it was assistantgeneral manager or sort of like
a deputy at the regionaltransportation district in
Denver, colorado, and I answeredthat ad and so I said you know,
(19:16):
I'm going to go down here andjust check it out.
And it was all completely on awhim and I drove in and I ended
up talking to the CEO of theagency at that time.
Unfortunately, he was a Vietnamveteran and he understood my
level of responsibility at thattime in the military and I think
(19:36):
he asked me two or threequestions, that was it.
And he said you know what?
I think we got a good fit.
He said I think we got a goodfit and he offered me the job.
You know it was like 78,000 ayear.
I was like, yeah, but my onlyproblem was that I still had 12
months in the military.
(19:58):
And to finish up this quickstory.
When I got the job offer, Icalled my buddy at the Pentagon
His name was Larry Strickland,he was a SAR major as well and I
called him up and I said, hey,listen, I got a job man, I got
to get out to Army.
And he said, well, you got 12months to go, phil.
And he said, well, you know,the best I can do is cut off six
(20:22):
months of that 12 months, whichhe did.
And I called that CEO back andI told him the situation and he
said you know what?
We will wait for you, that sixmonths.
And I thought, well, is this,is this not divine providence or
what you know I get?
I get six months chopped offand I got this guy saying that
(20:43):
he's gonna wait for me for theother six months, and he did,
and that's how I got intransportation.
Grantley (20:51):
Okay, well, could be.
That's that definitely divineprovidence.
So you enter transportationwithout without really being a
public transportation expert andthose kind of things, works
your way up to become the CEOand not just of Denver RTD, but
of one of the even largertransit agencies, la Metro,
(21:16):
where you were the CEO there aswell.
So you must have some prettygreat leadership skills and
bringing people together.
You know, how did you, how didyou make that transition?
How did you?
You bring those organizationstogether?
Because those of us who knowyou know your reputation,
anybody in the transportationindustry know that Phil
Washington, if he runs anorganization, it's gonna be our
(21:37):
unit, an organization ofexcellence.
So tell us about a little bit,about your leadership style and
how you were able to make thosetransitions and to make it
successful and to be the CEO ofDenver International Airport,
which is one of the fastestrising airports in the country.
Phil (21:54):
Well, well, thank you for for for saying that sort of
about my reputation.
It all starts with a very, verystrong spiritual foundation and
I am blessed to have had thatand had that now, a very
spiritually strong foundationwhere and that comes, of course,
(22:21):
from my upbringing in thechurch, that comes from my
mother, that comes fromeverybody around me Growing up
as a, as a young man, a youngboy and a young man, and in that
, in that environment, and so Istart there, and then, in terms
of leadership, I've always feltlike that I had to be a
(22:47):
collaborator and I always feltlike that I could bring both a
commanding presence along with acompassionate persona.
And I've never ascribed to Anyone leadership style.
(23:09):
I've never ascribed to anauthoritative leadership style,
always or In always a democraticstyle.
I believe in sort of asituational style of leadership,
because when you walk into anyorganization, I've always said
(23:29):
that when you know walking in anorganization, it's almost like
a foreign substance beinginjected into a living organism
when you walk into anorganization, now that that
Organism will either change you,the leader, or you will change
the organization.
Yes, and, by the way, my moneyhas always been on me, you know
(23:55):
so.
So I think I think theleadership style has to be
situational, I think it has tobe collaborative, I think it has
to be both commanding andcompassionate and for me, above
all, it has to be anchored by aspiritual foundation.
(24:20):
Not that you walk around, youknow, with this, you know the
spiritual thing on the back ofyou, know on your collar or
whatever, but but but thatpeople understand that one,
you're not gonna be rattled by,you know just anything gait
(24:43):
About you.
And because I think it givesstrength to the organization
when people see that steady,sort of Solid leadership in
organizations.
And so if I had to pointsomething out, it would be those
things where, with theunderstanding, as my friend at
(25:05):
Harvard says, he says this aboutleadership.
He says that leadership is theart of disappointing people at a
rate that they can absorb, andI've never forgot that during my
leadership.
One of the principles that afriend of mine talks about is
(25:28):
this idea, and this is in thecontext of getting things done.
He says proceed untilapprehended.
So I've always ascribed to thattoo, because you can analyze
things and tell the wholeorganization is paralyzed, or
(25:49):
you can do things, becausethat's what we're there for as
leaders is to get things done.
Grantley (25:55):
Yeah, that's a great print.
There's a two great principles.
A leadership we should, weshould probably do a podcast on
leadership with you and a coupleof the other guys just Just
talking about leadership there.
You, you've got that.
Now you run three organizationsand you've risen to those
levels.
But you you've also talkedabout your spiritual foundation.
(26:18):
So let's talk about your fifthjourney, if you don't mind going
into that a little bit moreabout and I know it started in
In in with your mama, at homeand at a church.
But how, how was your spiritualjourney developed to the point
to where it's integrated andeverything that you do today?
Phil (26:36):
Well, I think, growing up in church and by the way, I
hated it then I have to say youknow I'll be at a church all the
time, but as an only son, mymother took me everywhere.
My mother, of course, to churchwe had to go, but also my
(26:58):
mother visited a lot of olderpeople that what we used to call
in those days, the sick andshut in, the shut in yes, I
remember, yeah, yeah youremember that term?
Yes, and so my mother was.
She was a young woman, you knowit was.
She had five of us by the timeshe was 24 years old, okay.
(27:20):
But so she was a young woman,but she was sort of old at heart
and she taught us that she, shewould make sure that if there
were prominent speakers Comingto the city of Chicago.
So I tell the story in 1967, asa youngster, I might have been
(27:41):
seven or eight years old, beingat a place called Marquette Park
in In 1967, listening to MartinLuther King in that park, where
he got hit in the head with arock and he said that that was
the most.
That crowd in Chicago, on thewhite side of town, was the most
(28:03):
hostile crowd that he had everfaced, even in the south.
So this faith journey we alwaysview things through the prism of
faith.
Anything that was happening, mymother say you know, you know,
that's God's will.
Now, you know, you know.
So it was through this prism offaith that we view things, and
(28:26):
so that's sort of shapedeverything that I did Growing up
, and so I was always veryattentive.
Also, growing up in the church,my first mentor Was the church
(28:47):
janitor, who had a fifth-gradeor education, but he would just
Just counsel me as best hecould and he was a deacon.
And finally, I'll say, just thesearch for knowledge around
(29:10):
those kinds of things haspropelled me, even up to now.
Grantley (29:19):
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Last year you had the privilegeof achieving one the highest
honors in in transportation inthis country, in public
transportation in particular, tobe nominated and received the
(30:02):
honor of being welcomed into thetransportation Hall of Fame,
which is a high honor that notmany people get.
But at that honor you mentionedthat you were there because of
the prayers of your mother andthe power of her prayers to
carry you through the years.
Could you talk a little bitabout that speech you gave and
(30:24):
why you based your acceptancespeech on the power and the
prayers of your mother?
Phil (30:32):
Well, first of all, I'm very honored to to have been
inducted into the transportationhall of fame.
It was something that I was notexpecting, so I'm very honored
that people saw fit and that theAmerican Public Transportation
Association saw fit to adoptme into the Hall of Fame.
(30:52):
The first thing I thought aboutwas this is not all about me,
right?
You know, being inducted intothe Hall of Fame it was.
I talked about the prayers ofmy mother when I left to go into
the military.
My mother, she didn't have anymoney to give me or anything
(31:14):
like that, and she began to talkabout this idea of a spiritual
Inheritance, a spiritualinheritance that she was going
to leave me.
And you know, my mother diedearly, many years ago, and she
(31:37):
began to even talk about thiswhen she was a younger woman,
this idea of a spiritualinheritance, not riches or
anything, because she didn'thave anything to leave me, but
this idea of a spiritualinheritance.
And so she said that you know,I will be praying for you.
I will be praying for you.
(31:58):
Now.
This was a.
This was very, very bankable.
This was like a currency.
This was very, very real, youknow, to her, and it's real to
me as well.
But this was very, very real toher.
It was almost as if I'm givingyou a brand new house or a brand
(32:20):
new car.
I mean, I'm giving you thisbankable, sustainable thing here
that, wherever you are, youwill know that I am praying for
you.
Yes, and it becomes even morereal for me every day.
(32:45):
And it became even more real forme when I was thinking about
what to say at this inductionthing.
And you know, I know a lot ofpeople get up and they say, well
, you know we did this and that.
And you know, in my career, youknow all of that.
I was really not thinking aboutanything I did in my career at
(33:05):
that time when I said that.
I was thinking about how theprayers of my mother sustained
me throughout.
All of the dangers of themilitary, all of the tough
decisions that I had to make inmy life, all of these various
(33:26):
things.
When you know there's ayogi-bearism that says, when you
reach the fork in the road,take it Right.
And so all of these differentdecisions that I had to make, I
always thought, when I was aboutto make those, that my mother
(33:46):
is and was praying for me.
So I have faith that I willmake the right call here.
And, by the way, the Good Booksays that even though folks are
gone, their prayers are stillbeing honored.
Right, the prayers of my motherare sustainable, they're
redundant, they are bankable,they are scalable, all of those
(34:12):
kinds of things, and I thoughtabout that then and I thought
about that now.
Grantley (34:18):
That's powerful.
That's powerful and it remindsme of my mother, because she was
a very deep woman of faith,where he has eight children, and
when I was leaving to come tothe United States to go to
school, she was very poor,didn't have much money, and she
said the same thing silver andgold have I none, but in the
name of Jesus Christ, I send youand I'll be praying for you.
(34:38):
Right, that's powerful.
Phil (34:40):
That's powerful man that has sustained you too.
Grantley (34:43):
It has sustained me and carried me many ways and you
know, like you said, it'sprobably better than a pile of
money.
Right, Because a pile of moneywould have been spent by the
time we graduated.
Right, Because it cost theschool but the prayers keep
giving and giving, and givingand giving.
Right, that's right, they don'trun out.
So you know, when you're youngyou think, man, I could sure use
(35:05):
a couple of thousand dollars.
But as you get older yourealize that what she give you
was even more than thousands ofdollars.
And it pays back.
And it doesn't depend on theeconomy, it doesn't depend on
anything.
Those prayers just go up andthey're honored by God and they
sustain you and even protect yousometimes.
That you don't even know, right?
Phil (35:27):
Oh, absolutely, yeah, I mean protection.
Grantley (35:31):
So let's transition a little bit here.
Then I'm talking about you know.
You talk about your faith andyour mother's prayers, and then
you moved into the military.
You're now CEO of manyorganizations, multiple
organizations.
You got to lead the BidenTransportation Transition Team.
By the way, I forgot to mention, you're also the CEO of the
(35:53):
American Public TransportationAssociation for a while.
But what that is from a faithand a race standpoint, right,
when you achieve those kinds ofthings, you were achieving them
in places where people that looklike you and me are not
normally in those high seats,and even if we're in the room as
(36:14):
an executive or as a deputy oras a senior manager, usually
there are not many of us,sometimes it's only one or two.
So how has your color, has yourrace, your where you came from,
your faith?
Has there ever been a challengefor you in leadership I mean,
(36:36):
where people thought that maybeyou were not competent or
qualified and you were onlythere because of some
affirmative action or somethingand question your competency and
your capability?
Phil (36:51):
Well, a couple of things that I think about.
Well, you're gonna always havepeople that challenge you, and
it could be because of yourcolor, because of the perception
that when you walk in the roomyou might not know leaders of
color, women, women as well.
(37:12):
So I think about a couple ofthings and I'm blessed, actually
, that I come with a degree ofconfidence in my ability.
So I think you gotta haveconfidence.
Self-confidence it's notarrogance, because there's a
(37:33):
difference, right, it's notarrogance, it's a sense of
confidence in your abilities,that you are qualified.
And I've always been verycognizant that I may have to do
(37:55):
more because of how I look, andI'm willing to do that and I've
done that and I've done more inevery job than was expected of
me.
And so I think the confidencepiece is very, very crucial.
When I was in the military,especially when I reached senior
(38:17):
levels, I used to counsel youngsoldiers of color and I would
tell young soldiers, listen,when you have to salute a senior
officer and that sort of thing,commission officers, look them
straight in the eye.
You shake their hand, you lookthem straight in the eye,
(38:39):
because there were someyoungsters that did not have
that self-confidence, that wouldgaze at the ground and things
like that.
And so many times as a youngman I had to say prayers to
myself to instill confidence asyou walk in the room, and I do
(39:07):
that to this day.
When I walk in to speak tolarge groups and things.
I pray for that confidence andpray for that self-assuredness,
even now.
And so, yes, there are going tobe times where people look at
you because of the color of yourskin or because, in the case of
(39:32):
women, their gender or anythingelse.
They are going to sometimes walkin a room and be perceived
differently, and I think it's upto us to to overcome that in
many ways with our ownself-confidence.
(39:52):
My mother used to say encourageyourself, son.
Do not depend always on peopleto encourage you.
You have to learn to encourageyourself.
And I think, despite and inspite of all of the negative
perceptions that we may have asleaders of color, senior leaders
(40:16):
of color, we've got to find away internally to overcome that
within ourselves.
And however we do that, we haveto make sure that it works for
us, because, at the end of theday, a youngster of color or
someone that is junior to us islooking to us as to how we're
(40:41):
going to handle that situation,and so we're not in there just
for us.
We're in there in many casesfor a number of other people
that see themselves in us, andso I've always thought that I
have an obligation to overcomeany negative biases, any
(41:01):
prejudices.
I've got an obligation to dothat for the people that are
looking up to me and for mymother, even back then.
Grantley (41:15):
So you had a unique opportunity.
I mean, you've had many, manyunique opportunities, I guess,
but one of them was to be theleader of the President Biden's
transportation transition team.
I mean, what is a transitionteam?
But how do you even get to bethe leader of that and what is
(41:36):
the purpose of it?
What is it trying to accomplish?
Phil (41:39):
It's multi-purpose, I think.
First of all.
So one is to assess the agencythat you are doing the
transition for.
So, in the case of thetransportation transition team,
our job was to assess the agency, to determine where the agency
(42:05):
was an agency means Departmentof Transportation.
Grantley (42:08):
Yes, the Department of Transportation.
Phil (42:11):
About 54,000 employees in that in US Department of
Transportation.
So to assess that US DOP, whatis it doing well, what is it not
doing well?
The Department is made up ofsome 10 different agencies, if
(42:33):
you will.
You have the Federal TransitAdministration, you have the
Federal Aviation Administration,you have the Federal Highway
Administration, so you havemultiple agencies, I'll say,
within that Department ofTransportation.
And so you're assessing all ofthose.
And so what this requires andI'll have to say that we had the
(42:58):
best team and the greatestminds, I think, in this country
that were on that team, thatteam and let me just say, before
that transition team, I washonored to co-chair the
Biden-Harris Policy Committee,and that was before the
(43:20):
transition team.
So the Policy Committee was madeup of 300 people here in this
country.
Trust me when I say that thesewere some outstanding,
incredibly intelligent people intransportation.
The job of that PolicyCommittee was to put together
(43:44):
proposed policies and executiveorders for consideration by the
campaign.
We put together, I think,probably about a hundred
proposed policies and executiveorders for the administration's,
the campaign's, consideration.
So I was asked to co-chair thatwith a number of other
(44:09):
individuals, folks like JohnPicari and others.
Then after that came thetransition team and was asked to
lead the transition team.
That was 20 people, so these 20people were outstanding folks
too, and we were asked to assessthe Department of
(44:32):
Transportation and also preparethe nominee the nominee being
the Secretary of Transportation,prepare him for confirmation.
The team that we put togetheragain one of the 20 best minds
(44:53):
in the business.
We did it by subject matter andwe put that team together.
So I'm just honored that I wasasked to captain that team.
I think we did a great job ofpreparing the new administration
in the field of transportationand it resulted in the
(45:14):
bipartisan infrastructure billthe largest infrastructure bill
that this generation willprobably ever see.
So we're proud of that work.
Grantley (45:24):
That's an honor, that is a great honor.
For 15 years we had been, we intransportation, campaign for an
infrastructure bill.
Right now we got it.
We had workers, we hadequipment we had everything.
When we finally got it, covidcame in.
Now we don't have enough people, we don't have enough equipment
(45:48):
.
We got logistics issues right,so it's finally here and now to
make it happen.
It's a tall order to make ithappen, just because how the
world has changed from when wefirst started talking about
infrastructure revamping in thecountry right.
Phil (46:10):
Yeah, if it's not one thing, it's another thing, but
there's no shortage of work tobe done, man.
We got to keep fighting.
Grantley (46:21):
Yeah, and one of the things that you are really good
at is helping encouraging smallbusinesses and disadvantaged
businesses minority-ownedbusinesses to find opportunity
in places where they struggle,and you sort of built a
reputation on that.
Would you mind talking a littlebit about the latest initiative
(46:42):
that you're doing to help smallbusinesses?
Phil (46:47):
Yeah, yeah, I mean first of all, as you know, grant Lee,
and you know you're one of theleaders in the transportation
industry as well you know smalland minority and women-owned,
veteran-owned businesses.
They are the lifeblood of thisnation's economy.
(47:08):
They're the lifeblood.
You know, I've always felt thatway.
I've always felt like we haveto do what we can on the public
sector side to sustain them,sustain them through ongoing
contracts, to sustain themthrough work in the
infrastructure space.
(47:29):
It's one thing to have abipartisan infrastructure bill
of 1.2 trillion that's great butit's quite another thing to
make sure that that work isspread amongst small and
minority businesses andunderserved communities.
(47:51):
It's quite another thing toensure that it, you know, this
bill, the benefits of this bill,reach those underserved
communities and so small andminority businesses are a part
of those underserved communities.
The work that we're doing inwhat we call the equity in
(48:11):
infrastructure project reallystemmed from an executive order
that we helped draft early onduring the transition team in
the policy committee.
We drafted this executive, orproposed executive order that
talked about increasinggenerational wealth in
(48:35):
underserved communities and wedrafted that up and it turned
into executive order 13985.
Executive order 13985.
And what it said was thatgovernment agencies should put a
plan in place to determine howequity could be realized in the
(49:00):
infrastructure space.
And so we are happy to reportand we were happy to see that
the president, president Biden,signed that executive order on
his first day in office, hisfirst day in office, this
executive order that originatedfrom that policy committee that
(49:26):
we co-chaired.
And so we looked at thatexecutive order.
It was great that it was signedand it's still great that the
president signed it.
But we began to think about howwe could operationalize that
executive order.
How can we actually make thiswork?
Because, look, there's a lot ofpolicies out there that they
(49:49):
look good on paper andeverything, but how do you make
sure that it reaches and thatit's impactful for communities
that it was designed for, inthis case, underserved
communities?
So we thought that we couldoperationalize it through
procurement.
We thought that, you know, ifwe go to the CEOs of various
(50:13):
agencies and have them to commitand pledge to award look to
award more contract, primecontracts, not just subcontracts
but prime contracts, if we canhave them commit to this idea of
awarding more prime contractsto minority firms, that would
(50:38):
trickle down to more hiring andunderserved communities.
And we started with five CEOs.
We asked them we want you tocommit to awarding more award of
prime contracts to minorityfirms and on December 7, 2021,
(51:00):
we had a kickoff of this meetingof this group, these five CEOs,
in Washington DC, the ChicagoTransit Authority, CPTA in
Philadelphia, with the word thetwo transit agencies.
We wanted a water district, sowe have the Metropolitan Water
District of Los Angeles County.
(51:21):
We wanted a port, and so we hadthe port of Long Beach, in Long
Beach, California, and I'll letyou guess which airport.
It committed.
And so you fast forward to theday and we have almost 60 CEOs
that have committed and aredoing their work to make sure
(51:44):
more awards, more prime contractawards, are awarded to minority
firms.
So we're still working andwe're still fighting, but this
is a incredible effort led bymyself, my buddy, John Picari,
the former Deputy Secretary ofTransportation, Dorval Carter,
(52:06):
the CEO of Chicago TransitAuthority, and others.
So we're doing our part andwe're going to do more as well.
Grantley (52:16):
Thank you, I know we ran up on our time, but I got a
couple more things I want to getin quickly.
I think I would be remiss if Ididn't ask you about your
nomination for the FAA, and if Idon't, the fellows are going to
all let me know.
You didn't talk about that andyou were nominated.
It was an unsuccessfulnomination.
(52:38):
You end up withdrawing.
Is there anything you want tosay about that?
Phil (52:42):
Yeah Well, first of all, I'm honored by the president for
nominating me.
When it became clear that itwould be a drawn out process, I
withdrew, mostly because there'stoo much work to be done with
too little time for all of us todraw a process out, and so when
(53:10):
I did not see a civil and aviable path to confirmation, I
stepped away, and I think thatif we are to do the work of the
people, sometimes we have tofind it in other ways, and that
(53:34):
is where I ended up.
There was some debate about mymilitary career.
There's a little known statute,a little known statute that
says the FAA administrator mustbe a civilian, and there was
debate on both sides of theaisle of whether my active duty
(53:58):
military career and I've beenretired for 20 years now there
was a debate of whether I wasnow a civilian or whether I
could be called back to themilitary, and this statute says
that you have to be a civilianto be the FAA administrator.
(54:19):
I thought it's an outdatedstatute myself, and then I also
thought that if I am called backto the military, we will
probably be in real trouble thiscountry.
Yeah, because first I got tosqueeze into my uniform, but I
am at peace with it.
(54:39):
There's much, much work for usto do out here, and I'll just
say that what we talked aboutearlier, a strong spiritual
foundation, helps with thesekinds of decisions as well.
But one of the biblicalscriptures that I meditated on
(55:01):
then and I meditate on now saysthat we should focus on God's
will and our work in ourgeneration.
King David actuallyconcentrated on his work and
(55:24):
God's will in his own generation, and this is our generation,
and so I don't have time forlong processes and all of that
when there's so much work outhere to do, and that was my
mindset during that season of mylife.
Grantley (55:43):
So, as we wrap this up , I thank you for your time and
we've covered many topics.
There's probably some personallisteners and people listening
and saying how do I develop, howdo I get to that point where I
build that self-confidence,where I develop as a leader, a
compassionate leader,collaborator?
How do I deal with some ofthese things and become to the
(56:06):
point where I can become thateffective leader?
What advice or tools would yougive?
Phil (56:14):
Well, there's many.
I'll focus on just a couplethat have worked for me Having
some sort of spiritualfoundation.
Whatever that is, because intough times you have to, I think
, lean on something.
Now I don't lean on no drugsand you gotta lean on something.
(56:40):
It has to be something, and sothe idea of a spiritual
foundation is very, veryimportant to me.
Another important thing isconsistent and constant learning
that you are preparing yourselfand whether that is books or
(57:04):
formal education, whatever thatis, you're constantly learning,
learning something and alsoteaching somebody what you have
learned, whether that's yourkids or with or with brothers,
like we often do, and I think wehave to lean on that.
(57:25):
During some of my toughesttimes, I had brothers call me,
you included Grantley, and thankyou.
But we need that.
We need that when we hear thatbrothers and sisters and folks
(57:46):
are going through tough times,we should pick up the phone and
we should call them.
Grantley (57:50):
That's right yeah, not just text them or like a
message on Instagram.
Phil (57:57):
Exactly exactly.
There is nothing likeencouragement, there is nothing
like it, and so I'm appreciativeof friends and brothers and
sisters out there that havecalled me, so something to lean
on.
The other advice I would giveis in all that we do acknowledge
(58:24):
God.
Acknowledge God, because Ithink we have to acknowledge a
higher being, because we see itevery day.
We go outside, we see it everyday.
I mean the trees and the birdsand everything.
So I think in all that we do,my advice is to acknowledge that
(58:50):
there's something greater.
There's something greater thanus out here.
We're not doing this on our ownstrength, right?
And so that would be some of myadvice that I would give to
folks that are coming up.
(59:12):
I was talking to some youngleaders just last week and I was
saying that leadership is socyclical in terms of the
psychological nature ofleadership, I mean you could be
up one day and down the next.
In transportation realm, youcan have your operations.
(59:36):
Your operations chief can comein and say, hey, listen, we had
a great day today and nobody washurt on the trains or the buses
or the airplanes or at theairport or whatever, and that's
great.
But then the very an hour lateryou can have somebody say we
just had a derailment.
Grantley (59:55):
Yeah, we've had a major incident.
Phil (59:59):
So the psychological ups and downs of leadership are
incredible and we have to beable to withstand that, and I
think the only way, one of theways to sustain and be strong in
all of that, is to have somesort of spiritual center of
(01:00:21):
gravity that you can lean on.
I think that's very important.
Grantley (01:00:27):
Well, that's some really good advice and I'm sure
many people will be able to leanon that, or if they think about
it and help them in developingtheir leadership style and
developing their leadershipability.
I think one of the things youreally strengthened you really
spoke about earlier wasdeveloping your leadership style
within you.
(01:00:48):
Right, you had to realize whatyou were doing and realize what
it was that was within you thatcould help you walk into a room
and create that atmosphere ofchange which is very important.
So anything else you would wantto share before we sign off here
.
Phil (01:01:10):
Well, just to thank you, and thank you for what you're
doing, Grantley, I think it'svery, very important, it's very
important to lift somebody up,and so I know all of us try to
do that in things, that we dothe idea of lifting people up
instead of tearing them down.
(01:01:31):
And so I think if we focus onthat, I think our lives will be
better, our careers will bebetter, and it's really the
ultimate succession plan.
Grantley (01:01:46):
You know, if we get other folks ready to take our
place, Remember to subscribe andleave a rate in on the site
where you're currently listeningto this episode, and when you
(01:02:08):
subscribe, you will be informedevery time a new episode becomes
available.
You can also email us atabovethenoise24,
Abovethenoise24@ gmail.
com, and follow us on Facebookand Instagram @abovethenoise24.
@abovethenoise24.
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