Episode 55: Grantley Martelly: Resilient Journeys in Faith and Culture

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Grantley Martelly (00:11):
Welcome to Above the Noise, a podcast at
the intersection of faith, raceand reconciliation, and I'm your
host, Grantley Martelly.
Welcome back.
I'm excited about this episode,as usual, but today we're

(00:33):
turning the tables.
One of my first guests on thispodcast, dr Andrea Sims, is here
and he's co-hosting with me.
He's going to turn the tablesand be the interviewer and try
to help me get the story out,why I do this podcast, where I
came from, what it means to me,and begin some discussions that

(00:53):
we hope to continue in thefuture on some very pertinent
topics.
I hope you enjoy it and writeme and let me know what you
think and some topics that youwould like us to discuss
together as well.

Andre Sims (01:04):
All right, my brother, this is a changing of
the guard, if you will for thisparticular podcast.
So I've had the privilege ofbeing on the receiving end of
some very wise questions andyour expertise as the guy that
can lead a podcast for themasses, and so now we're

(01:29):
allowing me to test my wares,see if I can't reciprocate some
of your experience and wisdom ininterviewing.
And I really want to start offwith your family growing up.
Give us some insight as towhere you are, from whom God

(01:52):
placed in your life as stewards,since he's the owner.

Thank you, Andre.
Thanks for doing this and wecan have this conversation
together.
I've been looking forward to it.
I was born in Barbados, in theCaribbean, and I grew up there
until I left to go to college atthe age of 19 in Idaho.
We were a big family.
There was eight of us children.
My mother, my father, wasaround some of the time, but not

(02:22):
all the time.
So we grew up in the Caribbeana pretty poor family, didn't
know at that time what it was.
I tell people all the time Ihad to come to the United States
to be educated on what we were.
We just thought was normal andthat was something that we did
then.
Back then, my sisters and twobrothers Wow, what number are

(02:47):
you?
I'm number seven of eight.
So we grew up with our momthere in Barbados.

Andre Sims (02:54):
Yeah, so coming to the States, the objective and
the goal, the reason, themotivation, educated says to.

So I came to the United States because I had
a dream was to go to college andto become a doctor.
Okay, that's always been mydream, because I'd grown up in
the Caribbean.
I saw three groups of people atmy younger age that I saw were
successful.
If you weren't white, it was adoctor, a lawyer or a politician
.
Wow, okay, I chose to become adoctor.

(03:26):
Want to become a doctor, Iguess.

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rgb(252, 252, 253);">.
could figure that out.
But, that brought me to theUnited States to attend college,
a university, there.
I went to graduate school atUtah State University, studied
biochemistry in preparation formedical school, but never made
it into medical school.
I ended up going into theenvironmental industry, the

(03:54):
science industry, so being aquality control chemist in a
research lab and then going intothe environmental field
chemists cleaning up hazardousmaterials, contaminated sites
like you used to see on TV Inthose days with the people in
the white suits and going intothese places that were

(04:14):
contaminated with highly deadlysubstances.
I did that all around thecountry for a number of years.
Wow, wow.

Andre Sims (04:24):
And so that transition to kind of go down
the actual chemist route, asopposed to what I'm assuming
would have been initially amedical MD route.
Was some of that just yourenjoyment of learning that field
at the graduate level and thatenjoyment transitions you there

(04:45):
as far as the chemical route, orwas that life in medical school
didn't seem to be as feasibledue to life?

I've always been interested in science In
high school in the Caribbean,what we call secondary school.
Once you get to your last threeyears you had to choose a path
of whether you want to follow ascience path, a commerce or
business path or a technicalpath a bit technical people like
people who wanted to doarchitecture, technical drawing,
that kind of stuff.
I was drawn to the sciencefield, always interested in

(05:20):
science.
I came here and studiedchemistry in college and, like I
said, biochemistry, but itwasn't feasible.
I came to conclusion.
It wasn't feasible for me to goto medical school without a lot
of debt and then even analyzingwhether I could make it or not,
we have some similarities.

Andre Sims (05:43):
So I'm not seven of eight, my dad is 10 of 11, and I
too was a pre-med biology majorin undergrad.
So I just think that'sinteresting that you have that
history.
So tell us about your religiousbackground.
Coming from Barbados, obviouslythere are some religious

(06:06):
underpinnings that would bedifferent foundationally than if
you were born and raised herein the state.
So give us some historysurrounding.

Yeah, we grew up.
My mother was from St Lucia, myfather was from Barbados.
St Lucia is a very Catholiccountry.
Barbados is a more Anglicancountry.

Andre Sims (06:27):
Wow Okay.

Barbados was a British involvement, their
history there.
Barbados was always a Britishcolony that would change hands.
St Lucia changed hands betweenthe British and the French in a
number of different times.
So my mom was Catholic growingup and in our house you
basically followed what your momsaid.
So we were Catholic growing upmost of the time.
My father didn't really go tochurch that much.

(06:51):
So we were following a Catholicbackground, had to go to
Catholicism, had to go to Mass,had to learn the prayers and the
rosary and that kind of stuff.
My mother was very religious,very devout follower of Jesus
Christ.
From a very young age wemissionaries came and visited

(07:13):
our house and my older brotherstwo older brothers started to go
to the church of the Nazarene,which was an evangelical church.
They started going there.
We would go there periodicallyfor special services, mothers
there, christmas concerts, thatkind of stuff.

Andre Sims (07:29):
Okay.

Then my mother.
They had a competition Everymother's day at church that the
family who brought the mostpeople would win the Bible.
And my brother's told my motherabout it and she won like three
, four years in a row, with herand her kids All in possession,

(07:51):
and she decided well, if I'mgoing to do this, then I, as she
, started going to the Nazarenechurch and she became a
Christian there.
Once she became a Christian inNazarene church, she abandoned
Roman Catholicism Wow and we allbecame members of that church
because, like I said, wefollowed what our mother did.

Andre Sims (08:14):
Yes.

Yes, that became the place that we went
and every Sunday went to Bibleschool, youth group, all those
things.
My mother was a very devoutChristian and I always say in my
life, if I could be as 10% asfearful as she was, then I would
be satisfied that I have metthe level of fear.

Andre Sims (08:33):
Wow, just 10% would put you above the norm.

I love that she believed that God could do
everything he said he could do,that Everything in his word was
literal and that if he said youcan move that mountain, she
would stand before that mountainand said move until it moved.
And I believe that she couldpierce the windows of heaven.
You know, you hear about thatwoman in the Bible who prayed,

(08:58):
who went to the king and asked,and the king says you know, you
know, why are you bothering me?
And the Bible says shepersisted until he finally said
OK, what do you want?
Yes, and that's my picture ofmy mother, who just hit the
throne every day until Godrelented and said I will grant
you what you need because I needto spend some time with some
other people.

Andre Sims (09:20):
I love that.
I love that.
So, coming out of that Anglicanand Roman Catholic history,
what were some of the culturalclashes growing up in a
missionary led church?

Well, I think on the islands in the Caribbean
and most places where there wascolonization, you had that
clash right up.
You had Catholicism and thenyou had Anglicanism and, you
know, moravianism and then youhad what was called evangelical
churches right, how to do it?
The Catholic and the Anglicanwere considered the established

(09:55):
churches OK, the church of Romeand the church of England and
they had lots of power and lotsof presence, the nicest
buildings and that kind of stuff.
But we also saw, you know, aswe were growing up, that there
was some conflict there.
You're living in the Caribbeanand people are telling you

(10:15):
things.
Like you know, people arewearing suits to church, right,
polyester suits to church, andit's 85 degrees outside.

Andre Sims (10:23):
That kind of stuff.

I, you know, sweating profusely and that's
the best clothes they had.
You know, in the week theywould be going to work and
barely what they had.
And then sometimes they weredressed up and we were like that
doesn't make any sense.
You know, you're just hot andsweaty all the time.
And the music you know that wesang.
I was in a school choir, youknow we sang a lot of those

(10:45):
songs like Jesus, you, joy ofman's desiring handles, Messiah.
You know, these big churcheshad organs and stuff in them
that to some of us was likeagain, that doesn't make sense.
We're in a poor country andeverything in the church is
worth more than everybody in ourfamily is ever going to make in

(11:06):
their whole life.
Wow, wow.
And you know things in Latinand all those kinds of stuff,
which was okay.
But within the Caribbeancontext, there seem to be
clashes because what we werealso being told was that your
culture, your history, is notgodly right.

(11:28):
It's pagan, it's ungodly and inorder to be a Christian you've
got to give those things up andyou've got to follow this
European type lifestyle right.
The kind of music you listen tohas to change, because your
music is not good, it's bad.
You know Calypso, reggae andAfrican type music and you got

(11:48):
to listen to that.
I had one, one Pat one, onemissionary said you know, to be
a Christian you got to listen tocountry and Western or or
classical music.
Growing up, for me that justnever made sense, you know.
And they call me.
Yes, and my friends are rebels,so we'd be like, no, no, we're
not doing that.

(12:09):
So we formed our own band.
At a young age, Some friends ofmine formed our own band and we
started playing music and, andyou know, the churches, the
evangelical churches, werepulling away from some of that.
You know you'd have the formalthing and then they'll say you
have choruses and andcelebration, which would be

(12:30):
Caribbean.
So we started playing a lot ofreggae and a lot of Calypso, and
I love that.
And then we also play AndreaCrouch and we played all those
kinds of music too.
But we got a lot of criticismfor playing reggae, for playing
Calypso, for playing soccermusic.
We wrote most of our own musicbut we got a lot of criticism

(12:52):
for that.
I remember one time, goingthrough the downtown and in the
city there was what we call abus terminal, where most people
catch the bus right or walked orrode a bicycle, and there would
be these bus terminals and thepreachers would rent space in
the bus terminals to preach.
We call them open air servicesright.

Andre Sims (13:13):
Yes, sir, I understand.

I'm preach and there'd be all these people
preaching and we'd be down theresometime hanging out.
Sometimes we'd play up to someof them, but one day we were, we
were.
We were so poor that even whilewe, even though we were
musicians, sometimes we had tocatch the bus to get to our
engagements.
So we'd be carrying theinstruments with us through town
to get to the bus, to get there.

(13:36):
And this preacher was preachingand he saw some of us that he
knew and he looked over thereand he said you, you guys, you
are going to go to hell becauseyou're playing the ungodly music
.

Andre Sims (13:48):
Wow Out in public.

Yeah, and everybody looking at us and
we're just like we're in and wesaid, okay, but we're not going
to quit playing it.
You know, we just went along.
So those were some of thecontrasts that you saw.
Right Is who we were as peopleof African descent.
We couldn't hold on to that ifwe wanted to be Christian.

Andre Sims (14:11):
Wow, there is so much there that I'm not going to
say yeah, because I want to getto some other things about your
, your trek, your journey.
But at what point did you, justjust because I can't let it go
totally, at what point did God,the Holy Spirit, provide some

(14:37):
additional confirmation slash,validation, slash, fruit of the
spirit that you were on theright track, even though you
were being taught and trained,told and instructed that you
didn't have those liberties inChrist?

So I think that one.
There was a number of differentmanifestations.
One of them was in our church,even though there were some
people who believed that, therewere some people that we
consider to be mentors, who werespeaking into our life, who
were telling us keep doing whatyou're doing, it's okay.
Right, keep doing what you'redoing, it's okay.
Some pastors, some teachers,some people like that.

(15:17):
We also noticed that when wewent to play, people were
attracted to the music.
Both believers andnon-believers were attracted to
the music.
Yeah Right, they were Kim andthey would want to listen.
The churches had what theycalled fears, which was like
harvest time.
They would have a bigcelebration.
Okay, and they would have a bigcelebration.

(15:38):
They would have a bigcelebration.
And there would be music andthere'd be food and stands
around, sure and other bandswould go there and they would
play, and they would play goodmusic, but they'd be most doing
country western, that kind ofstuff.
But when we got up, man, and westart, you know you hear a pop,
pop, pop, pop, pop and we getinto some reggae music.
The place just came alive.

Andre Sims (15:56):
Yes, I know the difference From alive.

Right, and even the Rastafarians and people
who were considered outsiderswould come in and participate
and stuff.
And we would.
We would see that and it wouldhappen everywhere we go across
the entire country and we wereone of the few bands growing up
that every, every band had itsannual concert at that time.

(16:21):
We would hold our annualconcert and no matter where we
were, we would pack theauditorium and these are just a
little bunch of poor kids.
Yeah, I mean, it took us awhole two years to buy one
guitar, you know, but we couldhold a concert and the place
would be packed with people andthat just kept telling me what

(16:45):
you're doing is right.
God is not caring about thatstuff.
God is calling people and wewould see both Christians and
non-Christians being drawn andto me that was okay.
This can't be wrong if God'sdrawing people to it.

Andre Sims (17:01):
Yeah, yeah, there's a difference between
assimilation and integration,and yeah, I know.
So my next question, justbecause I'm getting ready, I
want to stay on task.
So the assimilation expectationdoes delve into this idea of

(17:25):
racist ideas, correct?
And so talk about that for aminute.
Just what it felt like to beyou in that season Again, what
you were being told and what youwere being taught, as opposed
to what you were seeing God do.

What I saw was, you know, and some of times
it was the missionaries whowere teaching this.
You know, the missionaries atthat time were all white and
then some of the local pastorsand stuff would assimilate that,
because they wanted to bepastor, they wanted to be
promoted and that kind of stuff.
They were our friends and weunderstood what they were trying
to do.
What we came to realize is whatI call to their Christian

(18:04):
nationalism.
What they were teaching was notbiblical Christianity they were
presenting the Bible but thepractices that they were telling
us we had to follow.
So one time you're preachingthe word, but on over here
you're saying to live the word,you have to become like us.
Scripture doesn't tell us tobecome like the preacher, it
tells us to become like Christ.

(18:24):
Amen.
So we began to and I was justthinking about this, you know,
even with the slaves, right,because the slave owners tried
to use the Bible and the churchto keep the slaves in subjection
.
Yes, but the more they taughtthe Bible to the slaves, the
slaves assimilated the word ofGod and became Christians.

(18:45):
But they didn't accept, andthey were not accepted by the
people who were preaching thegospel to them.
Isn't that something we'restill seeing that today.
Right, most of the blackchurches and most of the church
of the people of color came outof that.
Yes, accepted the theology thatGod can be your savior and your
lord and master, and you didn'thave to become white.

(19:07):
Yes, you didn't have to becomelike these other people.
And whether it's colonialism ortoday, you know, christian
nationalism that we see going on, it's all about the same thing.
People are saying in order tobecome a Christ follower, you
have to be like us.
What me and my friends wererejecting was we want to be like

(19:31):
Christ, we don't want to belike you.

Andre Sims (19:34):
Yes, sir, yes sir, which also speaks to this idea
that Psalm 139 has communicatedthat we are fearfully and
wonderfully made.
Marvelous are his works, we are, you are your peer group and
friends in Barbados representedmarvelous works.

(19:55):
You don't need to conform toanyone other than the one who
saved you.

The one who saved you.

Andre Sims (20:04):
Yes.

The other thing about that was that we
learned also, we had somepastors who really challenged us
and because we would have thesearguments.

Andre Sims (20:12):
You know the Caribbean, in the Caribbean
culture, you talk and you argueand you have these things Got
hands moving and heads moving.

And then you go and you know you go and hang
out together, you have dinnertogether.
That's not going to stop youfrom being friends.
You know we have argumentsabout everything, literally
everything.
But some of our pastors wouldsay, if you guys feel so strong
about that, you need to go andget in the word and see what it
says.
That's what it would tell us.
So we would go and read theBible and see what it says and

(20:43):
we would buy books.
We study different religions, westudy the theology, we study
the doctrines of the church.
We would study these thingsourselves because they're
challenged us to.
I love that.
The more we did that, the morewe find out that we don't have
to be like them to be likeChrist.
And we had so much fun andchurch was so much growing up.

(21:06):
For us.
Church was so much fun because,even though that was the what I
call the post-colonial era, wehad pastors who just challenged
us to get into the word, to findout what God says and to live
what a word of God says.
And even and they even told us,god never said you have to

(21:27):
agree with everything we preachyou have to agree with
everything he teaches.

Andre Sims (21:33):
That's so good.
We have some adults that stilldon't understand that truth.
I mean people that are today inthe church today that don't
know that the Holy Spirit is thebest Bible teacher they're ever
going to meet, yeah.
Yeah, okay.
Well then that automaticallysegues us into because God chose

(21:54):
to use you and your friends atsuch an early age.
How did your call to ministrycome to pass?

My call to ministry was a long call.
You know, when I came to theUnited States, I went to a
Christian school and I alsorealized that that Christian
school, there was some of thesesame things being taught, right,
Some of these same racist ideas, right, I call.
I come up with this new word Idon't even know if it exists.
I call it post-colonialtraumatic syndrome.

(22:26):
Post-colonial traumatic syndrome.
It's prevalent over there inthe islands and it's prevalent
over here.
And I had one advisor atcollege.
He never met me before, henever seen me before and I'm
going through the lineregistering for classes and he
had an advising line and thenyou go with your professors to

(22:48):
get the classes.
He said well, I think you needto start with some remedial
courses.
I'm not sure that you're readyto start, or at the college
level.
And I said what makes you saythat?
He said well, you're from theCaribbean and I'm not sure
you're ready for this.
And I said well, who are you totell me that?

(23:08):
I said I'm here to get aneducation, I'm here on the
four-year plan, I'm starting onyear one and I'm graduating in
four years and what you thinkabout me doesn't really matter.

Andre Sims (23:20):
He had never heard anybody tell him that to him
face before, I'm sure he never.

So my sponsor , who brought me to the United
States such a godly man, who Godgives so much wisdom, even
though he was white, he had thisheart of compassion and
understanding.
He had what I've learned todayis called cultural intelligence.
So he was a professor and hesaw me.
He was registering people andhe looked up and he saw this

(23:49):
conversation.
Then he looked at my face andhe saw me and he said he said
come.
So I went over to him and hesaid what just happened there
and I told him and he said don'tlisten to him.

Andre Sims (24:02):
Right there on the spot, he said don't listen to
him.

He said take this piece of paper, go over
there to that professor.
He's in charge of the chemistrydepartment.
Tell him, introduce yourself,tell him what you want to do,
he'll take care of you.
So I go over there and I talkedto him he's never with Dr
Arthur Emil and I told him whathappened and he said don't
listen to him.
He said I'll make sure yougraduate in four years.

(24:25):
Here's the courses that youwant that you need to take.
Wow.
So I went to my first year ofschool and I'm not the smartest
person in the room, but Ilearned how to study and I ended
up on the Dean's list.
I didn't even know what he was.
I got this email saying you'reon the Dean's list.

(24:45):
So I called my sponsor.
I was at my sponsor's house andI said what does it mean to be
on the Dean's list?
He said your grades are goodenough that you're going to get
an additional scholarship and itmeans that you're at the top of
the class.
So I'm walking across campusthe next spring fall getting

(25:06):
ready to register for classes.
And who do I run across again?

Andre Sims (25:10):
Same gentleman, same gentleman.

And he looks at me and he says I guess you
really showed me and I'm like Iforgot all about this because I
don't have time for him.
I've been dealing with whitepeople like this my whole life,
wow, wow.
And I said what are you talkingabout?
He says you're on the dean'slist.
I said I know.

(25:32):
He said you don't remember ourconversation.
I said I don't have time foryou and I left Right Because I'm
not going to dignify him with aconversation.
He didn't know who I was.
He didn't know all mycapabilities.
He didn't take time to know meor ask me anything.
He just assumed that I wasinferior because I was black and

(25:52):
I came from the Caribbean.

Andre Sims (25:54):
No doubt, no doubt.
Wow, I love that yeah.

So, getting back to this ministry call, you
know, in school I wanted to be adoctor, so I focused on that,
but the school required us totake some biblical literature
classes.
So every year I took biblicalliterature classes and I would
always take advanced classes and, and you know, get into and
really enjoy doing it.

(26:21):
But I never felt I never, youknow.
People would tell me, you know,you should be in ministry and
stuff, and I'm like no, god hasmy two brothers, my two older
brothers or ministers, he's gotenough, he's got enough and I
got other things I want to do,you know.
But I would enjoy these classesand I would take these classes
and we would get into some.
Really, me and my, by this timenow there was two other guys

(26:42):
from the Caribbean who wouldcome.
You know, in my path at thatuniversity there's about 12
people now who've come becauseof me being the first one to be
there.
So we'd be in classes togetherand the professor would be
teaching stuff and we'd bereading and we'd be like I'm not
sure I agree with what you justsaid about that, right, right,

(27:03):
we have these discussions inclass and after class the other
students will always come up andsay why do you guys keep
arguing with the professors?
You know they're always right.
We're like no, they're not.
And then we would go and talkto the professors and they'd be
like, man, we really enjoy thequestions you ask.
You know, keep bringing it on.

(27:23):
If we love the challenge.
We don't like when everybodyjust sits there and just writes
down everything.
You know, you guys really askthese questions.
So the professors were sayingyou know we like the back and
forth.
Okay, I understand.
Okay, we're like uncomfortable.
Because they were saying youknow who are you to question the
professor?
Right, yes, but it was the samething we were taught growing up

(27:45):
by home, right by our pastorsGet into the word, get into the
book and learn what it has tosay and be willing to talk about
it.
Yeah, I love that.

Andre Sims (27:55):
I love that.
Yeah, when I think about thatprofessor that spoke to you both
semesters when you wereregistering, I think of that
first, samuel 16, seven.
For God does not look at whatman looks at.
Man looks at the outwardappearance, but God looks at the
heart.
I just think that way, way, waytoo many believers are

(28:17):
preoccupied with what does theworld say I'm supposed to be, or
how I'm supposed to look, act,think, walk as opposed to what
God's worth, as opposed to whatGod's word says surrounding who
I am, which you and your peersclearly understood at a very
young age and walked out at avery young age, because you came

(28:38):
to the States at 19.
That's still young.

That's still very young, yeah, yeah.
So you know it wasn't the so.
So I got to college and we did,we did, we went on to graduate
school.
I was involved in the church mywhole life and and volunteering
at church and I startedstudying what they called the
course of study just again, justto try to get into more of the

(29:01):
word and doing men's groups andyou know, promise keepers at
that time and all that kind ofstuff.
And I it was 20, the shortanswer to it was 20 years
between when I people startedtelling me that I needed to
think about being the call tolike actually accepted, that it
was actually a real call.

(29:22):
It was 20 years, you know, andit was just a quick story on
that and we may cut out some ofthese stories, but you know, I
was in what it was called thecourse of study, which is for
people who are working, whodon't have time to go to
seminary, and that kind of stuff, right, but it was really
watered down and it was reallysappy and it was just, you know,
a lot of books and andquestions that didn't make any

(29:43):
sense, you know, and I was like,and I was talking to one of the
pastors one day after doing thestudy of John Wesley and I said
, you know, this whole study ofJohn Wesley didn't have nothing
to do with the Bible, has to sayit.
Wow, what do I care about whatJohn Wesley's favorite passage
was and what sound you wrote?
He says grant Lee, you just gotto learn that you got to pay

(30:06):
the price if you want to getthere.
You know, just do the coursespassing, you'll be fine.
I said, excuse me, but I don'thave time to pay the price to
please somebody else.
This, this is not what God iscalling me to.
So I dropped out of thatprogram.
So our district superintendentcalls me up and he says grant

(30:26):
Lee what's going on.
And I told him and he said Isaid that thing is really
annoying.
He said yeah, I know we'regoing to revamp it and we're
going to push it.
You're not the only one whosaid that.
So he said but I got achallenge for you.
I said what challenge?
He said don't give up on your,on your call.
I said I'm not, but I got tofind something that works.

(30:49):
So a few years later, I went toa meeting and I was on a board
and he was on.
He called me into his officeand he said this new program has
just started, an online programfor a master's degree in
pastoral ministry.
I think it would reallychallenge you.
He says I know, if I put you inanything that's not challenging

(31:11):
, you're just gonna tell me no.
So he said call this person,talk to him about it, see what
it is all about.
So I did and I called him andhe said I guarantee you you're
gonna be challenged and ifyou're not challenged, I'm gonna
apologize to you.
And he was right.
It was a master's level course,right?
So I don't have a bachelor's inreligion.

(31:33):
I've been in seminary and Ienrolled in a master's level
course and that was thechallenge that I needed.

Andre Sims (31:40):
Yes, that makes sense, Wow, wow.
So 20 years in the making wasthe call, and from biochemical
undergrad, passion and educationto what I know to be a career
in transportation.
So talk about that transition.

So when I got out of college and graduate
school, I first went into, likeI said, research as an
analytical chemist and doingsome research for drugs to treat
Billy Rubin and John Dyson andnewborn babies, and it was a
good job.
Then we moved.

(32:23):
My wife got a job in Salt LakeCity and we moved there and I
was working in a factory doingquality and again, analytical
chemistry, but it wasn't makinga lot of money.
So one day we were talking todifferent people and I met some
headhunters.

Andre Sims (32:41):
Sure.

Didn't really know what they did, but one day
it was at work and my wife gota call and, according to what
she told me was, this guy said Iam this person and Grant Lee's
near was given to me by thisother person and we have a job
that we think he may beinterested in.
It's a field chemist.

(33:03):
She said, well, he's not here,but how much does it pay?
And me told her and she saidhe'll be at the interview.
So I came home.
She said you got this call todayfor this person.
It's about a job interview.

(33:23):
I asked him how much it paidand I told him you'll be
interested.
So you have a job interviewcoming up.
Give him a call.
Wow.
So that job interview took methen from the laboratory work
into a laboratory in the fieldwork.
This was a hazardous materialsfield chemist for a company that
went around cleaning uppolluted sites.

(33:45):
We clean up laboratories andfactories and ground
contamination and that kind ofstuff that resulted from
chemicals and stuff in theground.
This was a super fund era, whatthey called RCRA, Resource
Conservation and Recovery Act,and brown fields and green
fields and cleaning up all thatstuff.
So I got into that and Istarted doing that.

(34:07):
While I was doing that, youhave to learn transportation
because you cannot.
A lot of the materials thatyou're taking care of,
especially in laboratories andfactories, you have to send to
what they call a treatmentfacility to be treated safely
and disposed of.
You can't put it in the garbage.

Andre Sims (34:23):
Okay.

You had to learn the regulations for how to
transport this over the highway.
So I started learningtransportation regulations,
right, 49 CFR and the hazardousmaterials and chapter 40 of the
code of federal regulation.
The transportation laws are inthe 49 chapter of the code of
federal regulations and then Igot put in charge of projects

(34:45):
out there in the field, but Iwas traveling all over the
country.
Obviously, you can't, you knowhazardous materials doesn't come
to you.
You gotta go to it, right?
Okay, so I was gone a lot atthat time my kids were young and
my wife started saying well,you know, you're really gone a
lot and you're missing.
I miss some of the key thingsin my kids' life.

(35:06):
You know, I tried to get thefirst day of school and some of
those, but I missed some of theprograms and stuff like that.
So I decided I wanted to have achange and so I started looking
for some other jobs.
So I know hazardous materials,I know underground storage tanks
, I know transportation right.
And this job I saw came up forthe Utah Transit Authority as a

(35:34):
environmental coordinatormanager.
Coordinator then became managerand the description was to help
clean up the contamination thathad been caused by underground
storage tanks leakingunderground storage tanks.
You know oil and diesel, thesame thing with junk yards and
stuff.
Sure, yeah that.

(35:54):
So I applied for the job and Igot an interview.
And I got the first interviewand the second interview and I
never heard about it from her.
So I kept doing my job, youknow, sure.
So one day I'm in Texas, atTexas A&M University doing some
cleanup and I got this call andit would say oh yeah, we're from
Utah Transit Authority, are youstill interested in the job?

(36:17):
And I said what job?
No, it had been that long.
I said I know we take long, butyou remember the job that you
would really.
I said yeah, I remember that.
I said I thought you guys hadheard somebody and I was like no
, he says we're a public agency,we take a long time to do
everything.
So if you're interested, whenyou come back home we want to

(36:40):
talk to you.
So the short of the story isthat's how I get then, from
taking all that field experienceand then applying it to the
public transportation agency,helping start the public
transport, the environmentaldepartment, cleaning up stuff
like that and then startedlearning then about public

(37:03):
transportation and the otherparts of that part of it.
And you know, god reallyblessed us in that I was able to
come home, get off the road andbe more involved in my family
life.
And the thing about that is Ibecame the first black executive

(37:23):
ever promoted in thatorganization.
Under my leadership we becameISO 14000 certified and then a
group of us myself and the chiefoperating officer and a couple
of us again got together and weled the organization to become

(37:44):
the first ISO 9000 certifiedtransit agency in the United
States.
Then I went on to lead it tobecome the first OSHA's 18000
one safety management systemcertified agency in the United
States.
So I was the first executiveand we were the first triple ISO

(38:04):
certified public transit agencyin the country.

Andre Sims (38:08):
Wow, wow, that's phenomenal, that is a
demonstration of God's hand uponyour life and the fact that,
while you may not identifyyourself as one of the sharpest
knife in the drawer, the fruitof your skill set, certification

(38:29):
degrees, job experience and,quite frankly, vision for what
can be All came to fruition andmanifest itself in this first
organization to actually havethose three ISO certifications,
which is phenomenal.

Yeah, you know God has led me in a very
they look back on my life.
You know I have a presentationthat I do says walking in the
footsteps of the books of myyouth.
So being poor, you got.
You don't have a lot of moneyto do a lot of fancy things, but
you can play games, yes, youcan read books, you can go to

(39:12):
the beach and you can imagine.
None of those cost a lot ofmoney.

Andre Sims (39:18):
Yes, sir.

Because you get the books from the library.
So we did a lot of reading, myfriends and I, and we did a lot
of imagining, yes, and when wegot through reading things like
Robinson Crusoe and Animal Farmand all of those books, we
started reading Encyclopediasjust for the fun of it, wow, wow

(39:39):
.
And we would talk about thesethings the Taj Mahal and the
Statue of Liberty and the EiffelTower and all of this stuff and
we would dream about beingthere, right and going to these
places not having a dime in ourpocket.
We used to walk down the streetlooking for coins in the
gutters so that we could buy alot for bread at the store,

(40:01):
right, literally, here we aredreaming about, you know, the
Statue of Liberty and all ofthese places.
Wow, we're going to Africa andsafaris.
But you know, as I look back onmy life, god has taken me to
India.
We've seen the Taj Mahal.
We've been to Jagpur.
We've got a Latin rug in ourliving room that was made in

(40:28):
Jagpur, india, that my daughtergot to pull out.
I've been to the Great Wall ofChina three times.
I've been to the Eiffel Tower.
I've been to New Delhi.
I've been to Gabon, africa.
I'm going to Kinshasa here in afew months.
Right, I've been to the Statueof Liberty many times.

(40:49):
So as I look back on that, theconcept is all of those things
that we were imagining.

Andre Sims (40:56):
Yes.

I am checking off on my list of all the
things that I have been able todo, and the blessing of it is
that most of those things Inever had to pay for out of my
pocket.

Andre Sims (41:07):
Wow, wow.
The only thing you do them, butthey didn't have to pay for
them.
They didn't have to pay forthem, right.

So God has blessed me tremendously to be
able to become a citizen of theworld.

Andre Sims (41:20):
Yeah, yeah, you know , I know I'm looking there.
We have checked about 55% andit's so rich, like, like, it's
going to need to like marinate alittle bit for those who are
tuning in.
I believe we're going to haveto have a part two.

(41:41):
Yeah, we probably have to have apart two because it, as my
grandmother says, it gets moregooder.
But as the story goes along,god's hand on your life, his
favor on you as his son, as hiscalled servant, and on your
family and I'm a staff I can'twait till we get this part two
scheduled and come back at it.

Yeah, I mean, I am too.
You know God, like I said,god's been very good to us and
you know, and my mother I thinkabout my mother, you know she,
she always encouraged me, right,and I didn't understand a lot
of things I wanted to do in mylife, right?
Yes, she would say to me you're, you're building castles in the
sky.
You're building castles in thesky.

(42:24):
And I would always tell her,yes, better to build them in the
sky, because if you fall, thenyou at least land on the cloud.

Andre Sims (42:31):
Ah, when I left the United States.

when I left Barbados to go to the United
States, they were having a partyfor me and they said to me
silver and gold have I none, butin the name of Jesus Christ, I
send you.
That's good brother.
He will take care of you and hewill help you to accomplish
everything that you dream andyou desire.

Andre Sims (43:00):
And and to the letter, she was spot on.

She was spot on and I sent her to the United
States with $159 in my pocket togo to a school that costs at
that time about $10,000 a year.
Right so $40,000.
I graduated from college withzero debt.
So you know, god has brought mefrom from that to where we are

(43:28):
today.
Or children are grown.
We have two biological childrenwho are grown, and we have two
adopted children who are grown,and we have less.
See two, four, seven grandkids.
If you put all of thosetogether.
While taking care of themselves, they're they're they're doing

(43:50):
well, you know so.
So God has blessed us.

Andre Sims (43:54):
Amen, amen.
That is a high note to tofinish on again that there's a
legacy there.
So just yes, you, youdefinitely want to tune in to
part two of this podcast.
For sure, there is more to comefrom the Martelly legacy in.

Jesus.
Thanks, Andre, I appreciate you, you, you taking the time to
work with me to get thistogether and to put together
this this time to share my storywith all this.
I was blessed brother.
Remember to subscribe and leaveus a rating.

(44:36):
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com.
And follow us on Instagram andFacebook @above the noise 24.

(44:59):
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Please share this episode withyour friends.

(45:32):
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