May 10, 2025 • 13 mins
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Fear powers our immigration debates. We hear it in political rhetoric, see it in policy decisions, and witness its impact on millions of lives. But what lies beneath this fear? Is it justified? And how can we move beyond it?
Today's episode delves into the complex emotions that drive our responses to immigrants and refugees. We start by clarifying important distinctions – who qualifies as an immigrant versus a refugee or asylum seeker – while acknowledging sobering statistics: 123 million people worldwide have been forced from their homes, with 44 million classified as refugees. These aren't faceless masses but individuals with dreams, fears, and stories that deserve to be heard.
We explore a rarely discussed immigration pathway: "citizenship by investment" programs allowing wealthy individuals to purchase legal status for $100,000-$500,000. This creates a two-tiered system where some can bypass the very lines others are told to wait in patiently. Meanwhile, misinformation fuels negative stereotypes about immigrants "stealing jobs" or "draining resources," despite consistent evidence showing immigration's positive economic impacts.
For people of faith, this conversation demands alignment between spiritual values and social perspectives. We cannot claim to love God while discriminating against our neighbors.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Grantley Martelly (00:09):
Welcome to Above the Noise, a podcast at
the intersection of faith, raceand reconciliation, and I'm your
host, grant Lee Martelly.
Welcome to Above the Noise.
This episode explores thecomplex issues surrounding
(00:30):
immigration and refugees.
Today, we are diving into thedifficult but crucial topic the
fear that many people feeltowards immigrants and refugees.
It is a fear that fuelspolitical rhetoric, shapes
public policy and ultimatelyimpacts the lives of millions of
people.
But what lies at the heart ofthis?
(00:51):
Is it justified?
How can we, as a society, moveforward with greater empathy and
understanding?
Let's set the stage.
Every country needs borders.
Every country needs borders.
Every country needs goodgovernance.
Every country has a right tohave just and equitable laws
(01:12):
governing immigration, refugee,resettlement, asylum-seeking
processes and pathways tocitizenship within their borders
.
This is the essence of being acountry.
I'm not promoting open borderswith no checks and balances.
We need to be vigilant, we needto be cautious and we also need
(01:36):
to be honest and just to takecare of the poor and the
foreigner within our borders.
We must have mechanisms toaddress crime, criminal intent,
human trafficking and thingsthat can happen within the
framework of immigration bypeople who have nefarious intent
.
(01:57):
Let's start by identifying who'san immigrant.
An immigrant is someone whomoves to another country with
the intent of residing therepermanently or at least for a
long time.
They are settling into a newcountry and intend to build a
new life there while they arethere.
Who is a refugee?
A refugee is a person who havebeen forced to flee their
(02:19):
country in order to escape war,persecution, natural disaster,
social or political instability,and they cannot return safely.
As of 2024, there wereapproximately 123 million people
who had been forced to fleetheir homes around the world,
(02:40):
including.
Among those were 44 million whocould be classified as refugees
.
Who is an asylum seeker?
According to AmnestyInternational, an asylum seeker
is someone who has left theircountry and is seeking
protection from persecution orserious human rights violations
(03:00):
in another country, but whoseapplication for asylum has not
yet been legally determined.
So this is why we hear commentsmade in the news or in articles
about international asylum laws, where people are to be
afforded the right to have theircase heard in a court of law
(03:20):
when they apply for asylum, forthe court to determine if they
have a well-founded fear andshould be granted asylum or not.
You can find more of thesevarious definitions and how they
are processed on the UNHCR site, unhcr.
org, and this is the UnitedNations High Commissioner for
(03:42):
Refugees who handles mostrefugee issues around the world.
In many countries, people canbuy their immigration status by
making an economic contribution,and this is aimed at attracting
wealthy, preferred immigrants,regardless of their character,
their history in many cases, ortheir intent.
(04:02):
It's caused citizenship byinvestment in many countries,
including Caribbean countriesand the Golden Visa Program in
the United States, Great Britainand other European countries,
and this has been going on for along time, and they usually
require contributions between$100,000 and $500,000 in order
(04:25):
to be granted status in thatcountry legally.
Now, this is interestingbecause many of the discussions
we hear about refugees andasylums and immigrants is that
people should wait their turn,and they should get in line and
wait until their turn comes tobe considered to be an immigrant
(04:46):
or a refugee or an asylumseeker.
However, we don't hear muchtalk about this that the wealthy
and the ultra-wealthy can skipthe line altogether and just
show up with a large sum ofmoney and make a deposit, what
they call an economiccontribution, and they are
(05:07):
automatically put in the frontof the line to be given
citizenship or permanentresidence.
So let's start by acknowledgingthat fear is a natural response
to the unknown.
When we encounter somethingunfamiliar, our brains are wired
to be cautious, sometimes evento perceive a threat.
(05:31):
Immigration and refugee crisesoften involve large movements of
people and different culturesand unfamiliar languages.
This can trigger fears ofuncertainty and anxiety,
especially in communitiesalready facing economic and
social challenges.
(05:53):
One key factor contributing tofear is misinformation.
We're bombarded with newsstories, social media posts and
political rhetoric that oftenpaint immigrants and refugees in
a negative light.
You've seen them, we've allseen them, whether you see them
on social media or in the newsor in newspapers, or you read
about them in articles.
They are sometimes portrayed ascriminals, job stealers, a
drain on public resources.
(06:15):
These narratives, even when weknow they are false and they are
demonstrated as false withstatistics and data, can take
root and fuel prejudice anddiscrimination.
With statistics and data cantake root and fuel prejudice and
discrimination.
It is critical that we beintentional about the
information that we consume andwe seek to find reliable sources
(06:39):
that present balanced andaccurate picture.
Another layer of this fear isrooted in economic anxiety.
In times of economic hardship,people worry about competition
for jobs and resources, and thisis a natural concern, but it's
easy to scapegoat immigrants andrefugees and blaming them for
(07:00):
economic wars that are oftencomplex and caused by
complicated systemic issues thathave existed for a long time
and that truly need to beaddressed.
However, study after study hasconsistently shown that
immigration can boost economicgrowth and create jobs.
Immigrants often bring valuableskills and an entrepreneurial
(07:25):
spirit to their communities.
We all know about it.
We see the restaurants, we seethe businesses, we see people
contributing.
We see kids in school and inuniversity becoming doctors and
lawyers, and teachers andministers and contributing to
our community contributing toour community.
(07:46):
So the myth that immigrantstake away or devalue society has
been proven over and over andover.
But these myths persist and wemust be vigilant at not allowing
ourselves to fall for them andto be standing up for truth.
Then there's the fear ofcultural change.
Many people worry that theinflux of immigrants and
(08:10):
refugees really erode theircultural identity and their
traditions.
This fear is often tied to asense of nostalgia of a
perceived golden age when thingswere simpler and more
homogeneous.
Now we know this is not reallytrue.
That golden age is usually afigment of somebody's
imagination and historians andpolitical commentators trying to
(08:34):
represent something that reallydidn't exist, because if we go
back to those times and we talkto the people who were there,
they will tell you that they hadthe similar fears.
They had similar anxieties.
They were worried about theirchildren, they were worried
about school, they were worriedabout economics and they also,
too, had their fears that werebeing addressed.
(08:54):
So this golden age is usuallysomething that is created to say
we can go back there and thingsto be better than it was.
We want them to be better forthe future, we want to have a
better future, we want to learnfrom the past and we want to
look forward.
And we know that culturalexchange can be a source of
(09:18):
enrichment and innovation andcan bring new ideas to the table
and can help enrich ourcommunity and our society is to
the table and can help enrichour community and our society.
So it's not about abandoningour culture, but rather
embracing the opportunity tolearn from and to connect with
others.
They're seeking safety andopportunity and a better future
(09:41):
for themselves and theirfamilies, and isn't this what we
all want?
Isn't this what we're allstriving for?
So, instead of viewing them asfaceless masses, we need to see
them as human beings deservingof compassion and respect.
We should get to know people.
We should introduce ourselvesto people, hear their stories
(10:02):
and put a face to who you'rereferring to, rather than look
at them as a mass of people whoneed to be rejected.
It's important to remember thatimmigrants and refugees are
people.
They're individuals like us,just like anyone else.
They have their own stories,they have dreams, they have
fears.
They are often forced to leavetheir homes due to war and
(10:25):
persecution, natural disastersand other factors that many
times they have not beencontributors to.
They are basically thecasualties of other people's
actions.
So how do we overcome thesefears?
It starts with education.
We need to challenge themisinformation that promote
(10:47):
inaccurate portrayals ofimmigrants and refugees.
It requires empathy we need tolisten to their stories and
understand their experiences andit demands a willingness to
engage in open and honestconversations about complex
issues surrounding immigrationthat truly need to be addressed
(11:08):
and that truly need to be madehonest and just and equitable
for all.
People of faith should beleaders in this discovery and
this discussion.
Along with becoming educated,we're required to align what we
learn with our faith and ourvalues.
We don't let our valuesdetermine our faith.
(11:29):
Our faith should determine ourvalues.
We cannot say that we love Godand, at the same time, hate and
discriminate against ourneighbors.
If we are to love our neighborsas ourselves, then we must
first ask the ask-ourselfquestion who is my neighbor and
how would I like to be treatedor viewed in this circumstance?
(11:50):
This is not about ignoringlegitimate concerns, but it's
about separating fact fromfiction and approaching the
issue with a sense of humilityand humanity.
It's about becoming human,human beings again.
By building bridges ofunderstanding, we can create a
(12:11):
more welcoming and inclusivesociety for everyone, while at
the same time addressing issuesof safety and security, economic
stability and cultural identity.
Safety and security, economicstability and cultural identity.
So that's all for this episode.
Keep the conversation going inyour circles, among your friends
(12:37):
, in your faith community, inyour schools, in your
discussions around the dinnertable.
Send me an email atabovethenoise24 at gmailcom.
Abovethenoise24@ gmail.
com, or you can text me directlyfrom the show notes in this
episode and I will receive itand respond to you.
Consider sharing this episodewith a friend and leaving us a
(12:58):
review, because reviews help usto stay relevant in the
podcasting world, and considershowing your support for this
podcast.
So until next time, keep theconversation going and let's be
honest about it, remember tosubscribe and leave us a rating.
Ratings are very important tohelping our podcast succeed in
(13:20):
the podcast universe and helpingit become known to other people
.
Email us your comments atabovethenoise24 at gmailcom.
Abovethenoise24@ gmail.
com.
And follow us on Instagram andFacebook @abovethenoise24.
Thank you for listening.
Please share this episode witha friend.
Welcome to Above the Noise, a podcast at
the intersection of faith, raceand reconciliation, and I'm your
host, grant Lee Martelly.
Welcome to Above the Noise.
This episode explores thecomplex issues surrounding
(00:30):
immigration and refugees.
Today, we are diving into thedifficult but crucial topic the
fear that many people feeltowards immigrants and refugees.
It is a fear that fuelspolitical rhetoric, shapes
public policy and ultimatelyimpacts the lives of millions of
people.
But what lies at the heart ofthis?
(00:51):
Is it justified?
How can we, as a society, moveforward with greater empathy and
understanding?
Let's set the stage.
Every country needs borders.
Every country needs borders.
Every country needs goodgovernance.
Every country has a right tohave just and equitable laws
(01:12):
governing immigration, refugee,resettlement, asylum-seeking
processes and pathways tocitizenship within their borders
.
This is the essence of being acountry.
I'm not promoting open borderswith no checks and balances.
We need to be vigilant, we needto be cautious and we also need
(01:36):
to be honest and just to takecare of the poor and the
foreigner within our borders.
We must have mechanisms toaddress crime, criminal intent,
human trafficking and thingsthat can happen within the
framework of immigration bypeople who have nefarious intent
.
(01:57):
Let's start by identifying who'san immigrant.
An immigrant is someone whomoves to another country with
the intent of residing therepermanently or at least for a
long time.
They are settling into a newcountry and intend to build a
new life there while they arethere.
Who is a refugee?
A refugee is a person who havebeen forced to flee their
(02:19):
country in order to escape war,persecution, natural disaster,
social or political instability,and they cannot return safely.
As of 2024, there wereapproximately 123 million people
who had been forced to fleetheir homes around the world,
(02:40):
including.
Among those were 44 million whocould be classified as refugees
.
Who is an asylum seeker?
According to AmnestyInternational, an asylum seeker
is someone who has left theircountry and is seeking
protection from persecution orserious human rights violations
(03:00):
in another country, but whoseapplication for asylum has not
yet been legally determined.
So this is why we hear commentsmade in the news or in articles
about international asylum laws, where people are to be
afforded the right to have theircase heard in a court of law
(03:20):
when they apply for asylum, forthe court to determine if they
have a well-founded fear andshould be granted asylum or not.
You can find more of thesevarious definitions and how they
are processed on the UNHCR site, unhcr.
org, and this is the UnitedNations High Commissioner for
(03:42):
Refugees who handles mostrefugee issues around the world.
In many countries, people canbuy their immigration status by
making an economic contribution,and this is aimed at attracting
wealthy, preferred immigrants,regardless of their character,
their history in many cases, ortheir intent.
(04:02):
It's caused citizenship byinvestment in many countries,
including Caribbean countriesand the Golden Visa Program in
the United States, Great Britainand other European countries,
and this has been going on for along time, and they usually
require contributions between$100,000 and $500,000 in order
(04:25):
to be granted status in thatcountry legally.
Now, this is interestingbecause many of the discussions
we hear about refugees andasylums and immigrants is that
people should wait their turn,and they should get in line and
wait until their turn comes tobe considered to be an immigrant
(04:46):
or a refugee or an asylumseeker.
However, we don't hear muchtalk about this that the wealthy
and the ultra-wealthy can skipthe line altogether and just
show up with a large sum ofmoney and make a deposit, what
they call an economiccontribution, and they are
(05:07):
automatically put in the frontof the line to be given
citizenship or permanentresidence.
So let's start by acknowledgingthat fear is a natural response
to the unknown.
When we encounter somethingunfamiliar, our brains are wired
to be cautious, sometimes evento perceive a threat.
(05:31):
Immigration and refugee crisesoften involve large movements of
people and different culturesand unfamiliar languages.
This can trigger fears ofuncertainty and anxiety,
especially in communitiesalready facing economic and
social challenges.
(05:53):
One key factor contributing tofear is misinformation.
We're bombarded with newsstories, social media posts and
political rhetoric that oftenpaint immigrants and refugees in
a negative light.
You've seen them, we've allseen them, whether you see them
on social media or in the newsor in newspapers, or you read
about them in articles.
They are sometimes portrayed ascriminals, job stealers, a
drain on public resources.
(06:15):
These narratives, even when weknow they are false and they are
demonstrated as false withstatistics and data, can take
root and fuel prejudice anddiscrimination.
With statistics and data cantake root and fuel prejudice and
discrimination.
It is critical that we beintentional about the
information that we consume andwe seek to find reliable sources
(06:39):
that present balanced andaccurate picture.
Another layer of this fear isrooted in economic anxiety.
In times of economic hardship,people worry about competition
for jobs and resources, and thisis a natural concern, but it's
easy to scapegoat immigrants andrefugees and blaming them for
(07:00):
economic wars that are oftencomplex and caused by
complicated systemic issues thathave existed for a long time
and that truly need to beaddressed.
However, study after study hasconsistently shown that
immigration can boost economicgrowth and create jobs.
Immigrants often bring valuableskills and an entrepreneurial
(07:25):
spirit to their communities.
We all know about it.
We see the restaurants, we seethe businesses, we see people
contributing.
We see kids in school and inuniversity becoming doctors and
lawyers, and teachers andministers and contributing to
our community contributing toour community.
(07:46):
So the myth that immigrantstake away or devalue society has
been proven over and over andover.
But these myths persist and wemust be vigilant at not allowing
ourselves to fall for them andto be standing up for truth.
Then there's the fear ofcultural change.
Many people worry that theinflux of immigrants and
(08:10):
refugees really erode theircultural identity and their
traditions.
This fear is often tied to asense of nostalgia of a
perceived golden age when thingswere simpler and more
homogeneous.
Now we know this is not reallytrue.
That golden age is usually afigment of somebody's
imagination and historians andpolitical commentators trying to
(08:34):
represent something that reallydidn't exist, because if we go
back to those times and we talkto the people who were there,
they will tell you that they hadthe similar fears.
They had similar anxieties.
They were worried about theirchildren, they were worried
about school, they were worriedabout economics and they also,
too, had their fears that werebeing addressed.
(08:54):
So this golden age is usuallysomething that is created to say
we can go back there and thingsto be better than it was.
We want them to be better forthe future, we want to have a
better future, we want to learnfrom the past and we want to
look forward.
And we know that culturalexchange can be a source of
(09:18):
enrichment and innovation andcan bring new ideas to the table
and can help enrich ourcommunity and our society is to
the table and can help enrichour community and our society.
So it's not about abandoningour culture, but rather
embracing the opportunity tolearn from and to connect with
others.
They're seeking safety andopportunity and a better future
(09:41):
for themselves and theirfamilies, and isn't this what we
all want?
Isn't this what we're allstriving for?
So, instead of viewing them asfaceless masses, we need to see
them as human beings deservingof compassion and respect.
We should get to know people.
We should introduce ourselvesto people, hear their stories
(10:02):
and put a face to who you'rereferring to, rather than look
at them as a mass of people whoneed to be rejected.
It's important to remember thatimmigrants and refugees are
people.
They're individuals like us,just like anyone else.
They have their own stories,they have dreams, they have
fears.
They are often forced to leavetheir homes due to war and
(10:25):
persecution, natural disastersand other factors that many
times they have not beencontributors to.
They are basically thecasualties of other people's
actions.
So how do we overcome thesefears?
It starts with education.
We need to challenge themisinformation that promote
(10:47):
inaccurate portrayals ofimmigrants and refugees.
It requires empathy we need tolisten to their stories and
understand their experiences andit demands a willingness to
engage in open and honestconversations about complex
issues surrounding immigrationthat truly need to be addressed
(11:08):
and that truly need to be madehonest and just and equitable
for all.
People of faith should beleaders in this discovery and
this discussion.
Along with becoming educated,we're required to align what we
learn with our faith and ourvalues.
We don't let our valuesdetermine our faith.
(11:29):
Our faith should determine ourvalues.
We cannot say that we love Godand, at the same time, hate and
discriminate against ourneighbors.
If we are to love our neighborsas ourselves, then we must
first ask the ask-ourselfquestion who is my neighbor and
how would I like to be treatedor viewed in this circumstance?
(11:50):
This is not about ignoringlegitimate concerns, but it's
about separating fact fromfiction and approaching the
issue with a sense of humilityand humanity.
It's about becoming human,human beings again.
By building bridges ofunderstanding, we can create a
(12:11):
more welcoming and inclusivesociety for everyone, while at
the same time addressing issuesof safety and security, economic
stability and cultural identity.
Safety and security, economicstability and cultural identity.
So that's all for this episode.
Keep the conversation going inyour circles, among your friends
(12:37):
, in your faith community, inyour schools, in your
discussions around the dinnertable.
Send me an email atabovethenoise24 at gmailcom.
Abovethenoise24@ gmail.
com, or you can text me directlyfrom the show notes in this
episode and I will receive itand respond to you.
Consider sharing this episodewith a friend and leaving us a
(12:58):
review, because reviews help usto stay relevant in the
podcasting world, and considershowing your support for this
podcast.
So until next time, keep theconversation going and let's be
honest about it, remember tosubscribe and leave us a rating.
Ratings are very important tohelping our podcast succeed in
(13:20):
the podcast universe and helpingit become known to other people
.
Email us your comments atabovethenoise24 at gmailcom.
Abovethenoise24@ gmail.
com.
And follow us on Instagram andFacebook @abovethenoise24.
Thank you for listening.
Please share this episode witha friend.
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