This episode delves into deep discussions around mental health, the struggle to find meaning in life, and the impact of societal expectations. The participants share personal experiences, challenges, and conflicting emotions. The conversation touches on the importance of creating space for individual exploration and discovery.
IMPORTANT NOTE: This episode contains discussions around the topic of suicide, which may be distressing for some listeners. If you are struggling with thoughts of suicide or know someone who is, seek help immediately. You are not alone and there are resources available to help. Consider reaching out to a trusted medical professional or contacting an organization dedicated to crisis support, such as the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-TALK.
Be mindful that everyone's experience with mental health is unique, and what is discussed in this episode may not align with your own experience.
Please take care of your mental health, and reach out to a professional if you're in need.
The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-TALK.
You can find a.m. on Instagram and TikTok at @absurdwisdom. We are produced and distributed by DAE Presents, the production arm of DAE (@dae.community on Instagram and online at mydae.org).
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent. While we make every effort to ensure that the information shared is accurate, we welcome any comments, suggestions, or correction of errors.
You can contact us at daepresents@mydae.org.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Samantha (01:34):
IMPORTANT NOTE
around the topic of suicide,which may be distressing for
some listeners.
If you are struggling withthoughts of suicide or know
someone who is, seek helpimmediately.
You are not alone and there areresources available to help.
Consider reaching out to atrusted medical professional or
contacting an organizationdedicated to crisis support,
(01:56):
such as the National SuicidePrevention Lifeline at 1-800- 2
7 3 TALK.
Be mindful that everyone'sexperience with mental health is
unique, and what is discussed inthis episode may not align with
your own experience.
Please take care of your mentalhealth, and reach out to a
professional if you're in need.
the National Suicide PreventionLifeline 1-800- 2 7 3 TALK.
a.m. (02:19):
And the voices in today's conversation are Angel Cruz,
Kyley Komschlies, Mohameth Seck,And our producer as always is
Scott Amore all are colleaguesof mine at DAE.
Let's listen in.
Scott (02:32):
Kyley had some dark stuff you wanted to start with.
So.
Kyley (02:34):
No.
I said it was a question thatthat could potentially be dark.
a.m. (02:37):
Did you disclose it yet or?
Kyley (02:38):
No?
Due to some of the conversationsI've had recently with folk.
And what you brought up in kindof huddle yesterday.
Like, whereas life is this,like, can feel like this grind
right now.
It's winter time.
Doesn't feel like anyone'shaving fun.
And so like, just my generalquestion is like, Why keep
going?
a.m. (02:55):
Wow.
Yep.
Kyley (02:56):
Like it seems like that's a question, like a lot of people
are, it's the answer of like, Iam just going, because that's
what I'm doing right now.
And I'm wondering like, Why?.
a.m. (03:05):
Yeah.
So I I'm gonna I'm.
I'm going to reframe yourquestion.
And we've used as a startingpoint.
Okay.
So.
The question I'm hearing youask..
What happens?
If the dog in the dog racerealizes that the bunny, he or
she is chasing.
Yeah, isn't a real bunny.
What's the reason to keeprunning.
Is that it?
Kyley (03:26):
Yeah, I think that's part of it.
It's a mixture of that.
Like, how do you know that themoney or chasing is actually the
bunny?
As one is one.
And it's not, not totally that,but as someone who is often
found himself, just like doingthe thing, because that's what I
do.
Yeah.
It's a mixture of that.
And then it's like thiscontinued practice.
(03:46):
Like I started this like kind ofprayer slash mantra with myself
coming from silence of God.
But like, God help me live mylife as opposed to like, God
help me live or, or continue toget this thing.
It's like helped me actuallylike live and experience this
thing.
For me when that Why gets fuzzy,that living gets harder.
Yup.
(04:06):
And so that's kind of where thatquestion comes from myself and
then talking to other people isjust like, things are hard up.
I'm still, I'm still going.
I'm still going.
I'm still going.
And rarely do I hear thoseconversations of like, This is
why I'm going as opposed to theact of going.
Which leads more to yourquestion of like, yeah, I'm
chasing this rabbit.
a.m. (04:22):
Yeah.
I mean I'll I'll I'll I'llcontinue.
Just, just framing of thisquestion.
I'll I'll.
The darkness on it.
Sure.
And trigger warning for folkslistening.
But, but, but Camus who's is.
You know, I'm not big onphilosophers per se.
But, but, but Camus would be myfavorite philosopher.
If we went down that path,mainly for his writing.
His, his narrative writing.
(04:43):
said that there is only onequestion for a human being.
The first question.
I'm paraphrasing, but the firstquestion, which is, should I
commit suicide?
And then in confronting thatquestion.
Now the whole thing, becausewhat he's pointing to there,
like it sounds dark.
And of course it is dark in acertain way, but what he's
pointing to is that thefoundational question is you
(05:04):
must generate meaning.
Yeah.
You know, in order to answerthat.
Question in the negative?
No, I will not commit suicide.
Requires that you generatemeaning.
And so for the existentialistand for the absurdist.
This sort of acknowledgementthat that life is absurd, that
this kind of chase this.
The things we do just I'll bein, if you step back and look at
(05:25):
them and it's like, it's just.
It's absurd.
It's just.
It makes no tell it.
And in the face.
And so, but that's not the end.
Right.
You also said that therealization that, that, you
know, the, the whole thing isfundamentally absurd.
It's not the end point.
That's the starting point isokay.
If that is so now.
For what will I live?
And there's an imperative todefine that there's an
obligation.
(05:45):
Requirement to define that andto divine that every day.
You put that in the context of asociety that.
Fundamentally.
Two minutes in folks I'm alreadyon my.
It's the society of a tangent,but you put that in the context
of a society that from day one,Takes you out of that question.
Around what is your generatedmeeting and then replaces it
(06:08):
with here's the meeting.
Here's where you're supposed tobe.
Here's what you're supposed tochase.
Here's what you.
Here's your supposed to ride goand then reward you for going,
right.
And so.
Dog running around the raceshop, chasing the rabbit because
you're suppose to want therabbit.
And so it leads you away fromthat question that, you know,
the camera and theexistentialist pointing to,
which is no.
What does the meaning?
(06:29):
I'm generating.
Angel (06:30):
I feel like that's a question that.
Really won't be answered.
And so I agree with you.
When you talk about society,because that's exactly what it
is, but.
At some point.
You have to separate yourselffrom society to actually kind of
do some self-reflect thingstowards yourself and.
Let's see, what is the meaningof living right.
(06:52):
I would definitely say that.
It could get really dark.
We like, like why.
Why, why should I keep going?
You know And at the end of theday, it comes down to the
choices that you make.
'cause some people really dotake that choice.
I'm going to commit suicidebecause.
I don't have nothing to livefor.
I can't do this no more.
I it's just too much for me.
(07:13):
Right.
It goes back to how powerful ourbrain is.
Where we can actually train ourminds to go down a certain.
And.
What we put our minds to ispretty much what will take
place.
So the meaning.
I mean.
I would definitely say like ingeneral, meaning will be
liability, especially if youhave you.
(07:34):
You know, humans that rely onyou.
That is a huge reason.
But when it comes to yourself,That can be a question.
It could go on for like, Ages.
a.m. (07:46):
I'm just sitting here thinking about it.
Okay.
Do we really want to get intothis or do we want it?
Yeah, let's.
Really get into this to thedegree, to which, you know,
we're up, we're getting intothis.
So.
I had an obviously failedsuicide attempt as a young
human.
13.
And The sort of reflection backon it.
You know, there's no way to bein this world.
(08:08):
And be me.
I don't even know what me is.
At 13.
But what I have clarity about isthat there's no way to be in
this world.
Given what the invitations andthe pressures and the.
Whole thing is.
The, what I do know is I can'tbe me.
Without even knowing who me isright at that age.
(08:29):
I have no clue.
That's, you know, the commonversion of, of where you get to
that extremes.
I'm sure there are many pathsthat saying I'm sure that
chemical issues I'm sure.
Right.
But I say that.
To then say.
What I think the Experienceactually was, was.
Not.
There's no way to be me in thisworld.
(08:49):
Like that's kind of one layer,but then deeper layer that is.
Oh, I'm already dead.
Like, I actually don't exist inthis thing.
I'm playing what I'm supposed toplay, but I don't actually exist
in this thing.
And so, and I'm tired of therole.
I'm tired of the, yeah, becauseagain, I saw the bunny, the
bunnies fake.
But what there is to do is tochase the bunny.
(09:10):
And there's so I'm not, I'malready not here.
So what's the point.
Right.
Unfortunately having, you know,Not read yet.
Kevin with that point.
It did after that experience,get the realization.
Oh yeah, shit.
I gotta, I gotta, I gotta makeup a bunny.
That works for me.
And then, you know, A goodhealthy Hardy, fuck you to.
What all the various stuffedbunnies were that were being
(09:32):
thrown at me.
We did get dark.
Kyley (09:35):
I started I said so.
Angel (09:37):
I mean.
I feel that it's necessarybecause.
Darkness exist.
Yes.
Kyley (09:43):
And I do.
And then I asked this questiontruly, because I think people
ask themselves this question.
And I often I've asked myselfthis question during this time
of the year.
Fortunately, I'm not in thatplace right now.
When I, I have in the past, myapproach was very different.
It wasn't, I can't be me.
It's that?
Me causes harm.
Hmm.
Right.
I'm I'm in the way I'mproblematic.
(10:04):
My softest is, is making theworld a worse place.
Yeah.
Scott (10:08):
I think we work our way through day to day.
Whatever it is we choose to dowith our time sometimes.
It chooses us.
Depending on how our life hasbeen.
Unfolding.
But there's always this illusionof separateness, I think.
When did you know.
When, when do you hit that pointwhere you realize that you're
not really separate, but theencouragement is to, I think you
(10:32):
said in the last podcast, like.
You know, individuate.
Way too.
Claim your own space.
Has to come full circle to thisidea of like I'm part of a
bigger picture.
You know, sometimes you don'thave that.
In the moment.
In those desperate moments whenyou need it, the most.
And if that happens oftenenough, you can start to believe
(10:52):
that.
I am separate.
I am no good.
I am bad.
I am damaging whatever it is.
Like your narrative that you'retold from other sources.
Thing that changed it for me wasit was really late in life too.
I was probably.
Late thirties, 40 of like thisidea of, you know, oh, like life
is kinda like a dance.
(11:13):
You know, like the point is notto get someplace on the floor.
It's just a dance.
And, you know, I'm not a dancer,but you get the idea.
The point of the dance is thedance.
And.
You know, that, that in the.
Sort of sacred stuff that I wasreading.
You know, There's there's warthere's.
Love there's, you know, passionand all these things are.
(11:37):
Told through ritual.
And celebration of ritual andthen.
What are you going to do?
Is the big question.
Everybody kind of panics, like,what am I going to do?
Oh my God, what am I going todo?
Angel (11:47):
You know, growing up.
I've always felt like I wasseeing from someone else's lens.
And just looking at everybody.
How.
They were better than me and Imean, siblings.
And also I'm ashamed justbecause, you know, being in a
foster home.
And then.
You know, Transitioning.
(12:09):
To back to my biological mom.
Was a huge transition.
And so.
It was two differentatmospheres.
And so.
Being in foster home, I wasloved care for.
And I felt like that was veryimportant, those first five
years of my life, because it's,you know, it's needed, you.
(12:30):
You know, especially at thatstage.
And then going, transitioningback.
Two.
Okay.
It was different.
It was chaos.
And I had siblings and.
We were treated differently.
And so growing up, it was justlike, oh, okay.
She's better than me.
What's so special about her.
(12:52):
You know, Not getting the sametreatment.
And so that led me growing up.
To seeing things like fromdifferent lens, like.
That's how I need to be in orderto be loved or accepted, or look
that Mr.
I'm way.
And.
It wasn't until, I mean, manythings happened throughout.
That gap.
13 years old until I was like18.
(13:15):
It just.
A lot of things happen.
It just came down to like, Feveryone I'm going to do this my
way.
I'm going to choose.
To live.
Life.
That I want to live.
And it wasn't more, it wasn'tlike an arrogant.
Prideful.
Attitude.
It was more like, I'm going tobe who I want to be, because I
(13:36):
don't need to live this way oract this way to be accepted.
I'm going to actually dedicatemyself.
To learning.
I'm a dedicate myself to doingwhatever it is that I have to do
to become this person that Iwant to be.
And this person that I want tobe is pretty much become the
person that I would have lovedfor people.
(13:59):
And I ain't going to.
You know, be specific on who,but.
For people to look at me the wayI wanted to be looked at.
And so, yeah, it just got to thepoint on like F the whole world.
I don't care.
I don't even care what you say.
More like it is what it is, but.
That transition itself.
Also led to a dark.
(14:21):
Moment of my life, because thenlayers started to come off and
peel off and I'm like, oh, okay.
I didn't know that.
I still felt this way at.
I didn't know that this wasstill attached to me, you know?
And it did lead for me toattempting suicide.
At one point.
I do appreciate the people thatI was around at the time.
(14:42):
But it was a really, really darkmoment.
And.
I don't know how I overcame it,but.
It was hard.
It was hard.
It was hard.
But I would definitely say whenI did overcame it.
It made me.
Be as strong a person.
Instill that questions thoughremains.
Why am I living?
For what.
(15:03):
And so I just told myself I'mnot living for myself.
I'm living.
Another person.
I'm living for whoever I'maround them.
I'm living for whoever.
I can impact.
You know, In a way that willhelp them.
You know, so it's, it'sdefinitely how you train your
mind.
Hmm.
Scott (15:20):
I'm curious that did that change when you had kids.
Looking at a couple of you.
Did you feel like something.
Aligned differently.
Angel (15:29):
It did, but it took time.
Because when I became a parent,I had no idea.
I thought I knew what I wasdoing, but I had no idea what I
was doing.
And he took time.
To actually.
See that.
She's.
A whole human being.
You know, She actually exists.
You know, But yeah.
(15:51):
Yeah.
And even then like, Even then.
We're still our own self.
So.
That question is still remains.
You know what I mean?
It's still remains becauseyou're one person.
And you still have to get up andlive every day.
Yeah.
Oh, Hmm.
a.m. (16:10):
Public therapy session.
I to answer your question.
I don't want to Dodge yourquestion.
Cause that's what actually hadme from the thing about the
group.
The thing kids were, I say, Ialways say kids.
I have one biological child.
I have two nephews that Iconsider my children.
By the time that.
Th they were all born.
I was well past, like I had aclarity about myself and that,
you know, And so these sort ofissues just weren't on the table
(16:32):
and.
You know, the last sort of phaseof my marriage.
A version of the same darkness,I think sort of entered because
I think there was, there was asimilar.
Not anywhere near, you know,but, but.
That sense of, you know, I'mchasing a rabbit.
That I actually don't want.
Like in terms of the lifestyle,in terms of the, you know And
again, I, I don't know if thisis the only way people get to
(16:55):
the places we're talking about.
Right.
But there does seem to be athing.
In this society that it is verydifficult for people to break
out of.
Who they're known to be.
And.
To internalize.
As who I know, I be based on whoI've known to be.
And then now I can not onlybreak out of that out there, but
(17:16):
I can't break out of this inhere.
And yet there's a part of methat knows this ain't me.
Angel (17:21):
Would you say is because the expectation.
Of what other people.
a.m. (17:26):
I think a good, it can be healthy things like expertise, a
sense of genuine obligation andcommitment and care.
Like you said, like I can't.
You know, like I actually, Iheard you saying I'm having a
negative impact, which implies.
That I actually care about thesepeople.
Put the world, right.
And so it can come from that.
I think.
It can come from more burdened,like, you know people force me
(17:48):
to be this way.
Like they won't let me, right.
So I think it can be.
Either side of it.
But, but, but rightly orwrongly, I think the, the
individual senses that There'sno way to be me here.
There is this, this, you know,Again, there is who I'm supposed
to be.
And then maybe even aninternalization of that.
And some part of me, whether I'maware of it or not.
(18:08):
Is just like this ain't us, thisain't us, this ain't us.
And again, back to that, that,that.
Yeah, that, that dog racingthing it becomes, it just
becomes you realize.
The rabbit's fake, but you'restill running at full speed and
it's like, whoa, huh?
Y.
But there's no other thing to doin Rome.
Well, what else am I doing onthe racetrack?
If I'm not running after the.
What is there to do here?
Yep.
It's a loop.
(18:30):
Yeah.
Kyley (18:31):
They mowed their naming flowers in the middle of me to
go smell.
Scott (18:33):
I remember this.
I had a particularly like roughpatch probably 15 years ago or
so, just trying to figure out,like, what am I doing?
Well, you know, am I going theright way?
Am I doing the right thing?
Am I.
Should I just.
Do the opposite of my instincts,you know, for a change and see
if that helps.
You.
Just trying to figure it out.
And a good friend of mine.
Sent me this hand, drawnpostcard that he made to have a
(18:56):
little, like a little Pac-Manand a ghost on it and stuff.
And it was just like this.
You know, saying hello kind ofthing.
But I had been, I had told himkind of what I was going through
and stuff, and he, his way of.
Addressing it was, he said,There was something wrong with
your ghost.
Hmm.
You know, and I was like,there's, you know, it kind of
resonated with me in a way oflike, oh yeah.
(19:16):
Like the spirit that animates meis confused or caught or
something.
And it needs to be kind ofshaken up a little bit.
And it really just took like a,you know, a trip out of my own.
Out of my own house, out of myown environment, out of my own
group of friends and justtravel.
Just go some place I've neverbeen before and just kind of
look around.
And, and when I got back, I kindof had more clarity as to like
(19:38):
what was missing.
But that phrase, it's somethingwrong with your ghost is going
to really resonated with me.
And I think about it quite abit.
a.m. (19:45):
It's the way you just set apart.
Part of that Scott ruins.
When I do road trips a lot.
Right.
And fewer the last couple ofyears, and then I would love,
but I love like road trips andlong road trips.
And I.
I've said this to people all thetime.
It's either proactively or inresponse to like, Like, but you
don't.
Yeah, you're on the road for amonth and you don't know anybody
(20:07):
and you're not going with them,but I'm like, One of the things
I love about road trips is notmeeting strangers.
The although that's great.
But it's getting to be astranger.
Everywhere I go, I am anabsolute, I could be anybody.
I could be a CIA spy.
I could be a wall street banker.
(20:28):
I am a stranger.
And they get to go in thoseplaces and just generate myself.
I love that.
It's free of all their, norabbits inherently.
There are no rabbits.
Yeah.
Mo (20:37):
What do you mean when you say there's no rabbits, like
there's.
a.m. (20:40):
There's no expectation of who I'm supposed to be.
Mo (20:42):
What are you supposed to like, what are you supposed to
chase or,
a.m. (20:44):
Yeah.
I'm supposed to be, I'm supposedto act like I walk into a place
where people don't know me.
At all right.
Particularly if it's a differentgeography.
Right.
Like, like a differentsubculture in the country.
There's nothing for me to liveup to.
Other than the broad, basichuman boundaries of don't be
rude.
And don't be, which is fine.
But there's nothing I have toperform.
(21:06):
Whether I want to, or not.
I have to.
I have to actively generate.
Well, I am here.
Versus like I walk in thisbuilding.
I think we all have really goodrelationships.
I think we all have free to, Ifeel freedom to kind of like I'm
having a whatever day to kind ofsay that.
And we make that part of ourpractice, but I walk in.
And you all know who I am.
(21:27):
You know what I mean in thesame, like I know who you are,
there's a certain amount of thatyou can't escape, even when it's
healthy.
But when I'm road tripping andI'm in some dive bar in, in, in
some tiny town in, in, inTennessee or wherever.
Nothing.
They know nothing.
Yeah, the CEO and nothing.
I'm just, I mean, Now there isa, like a dive bar in a small
(21:47):
town.
You know, in Tennessee.
There are some things certainly.
Sure for sure.
As a brown man.
Yeah.
Potentially, right.
So, so a certain amount of thatyou can't escape, but
Scott (21:59):
you got to stand up and be like, all right, I'm going to
call it huddle here.
Then we're going to check in.
I find the regions that we sortof have a historical sense of
not being accepting toeverybody.
Ironically or the places wherepeople seem to be most friendly
and open and we'll have aconversation with you.
You know, on, on multiplelevels.
You know, just even if it's justsmall talk, so it's this weird
(22:20):
kind of like.
I feel like maybe there's asense of like, see we're not so
bad.
You know, We'll say hello toeverybody and, you know, Ask you
how you're doing and you know,where'd you get those shoes or
whatever, whatever it is therethey use to kind of break the
ice.
But that's covering up you know,A whole lot of mess.
Under there you.
Just like, you know, Whensomebody says.
(22:42):
Bless his heart.
But they really mean.
Yeah.
Mo (22:45):
Took me a while to realize what that meant.
It's all someone from NorthCarolina.
Kyley (22:48):
I don't know if anyone else resonates this, but my, my
Why for continuing to go is verymuch based on the why I didn't
want to go for a period of timeand making the world a better
place for the, the, the me.
Of the now.
I don't know, like, not me as aperson, but like who.
Who I could have used around mein that point in my time, if
someone was just glad to seeyou.
(23:10):
Looking out asking questionsinviting you.
This soup and.
What do you want to be about?
Not in a way of like, you haveto be about it, but like, how do
you source what it is you'reabout in the world?
That's something that I thinkabout sometimes.
Mo (23:24):
That question was asked more when I was a kid.
We're on other people.
Looked at what I was doing.
And he said, you know, likethere's a lot of, oh, you look
like you could do this, or youshouldn't do that.
Oh, that makes me wonder howmuch that shaped.
Me person with tech.
Cause I thought tech was cool.
I like electronics and all that.
Growing up.
I don't.
I wish people asked me more ofthat question.
(23:45):
Yeah.
Because I feel like the.
When you're young.
People look at your data.
They're kind of like.
I don't know.
John someone making a decision.
Kyley (23:53):
I think something we forget sometimes is tech is a
vehicle.
Engineering is a vehicle.
Math is a vehicle like they,aren't not, they don't
necessarily have to be the endresult.
They are a.
A a way to do something right.
Poetry, all those things areways of, of.
Doing some form of work in theworld.
And without that about.
(24:14):
You're just making tech.
Which can be okay.
But I haven't found it to befulfilling for myself.
Part of the reason I leftengineering to engineer wasn't.
It was what I was doing withwhat I had, that that actually
mattered.
It had gave me a reason to keepdoing stuff.
All right.
Mo (24:30):
Did you ever ask yourself a, why this, why this pathway.
Kyley (24:33):
Why engineering?
A hundred percent know why Ichose engineering.
I can, I can, I can tell you themoment I chose to be an engineer
and my lifetime.
I think we actually talked aboutthe podcast.
I was building stuff with whatconnects and my dad was like
many, be a great engineer.
And then there was some timedown the road, like that was
like, oh, that is a thing in mybrain.
And then someone said to me,you're good at math and you want
to make money.
Go to college for engineeringand like cool.
(24:56):
That's it.
We did it.
We're doing it.
I'm going to have a fence and acar and a family.
It's going to be great.
Angel (25:04):
But that goes back to what most.
I was like, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
What are you into?
What are you?
What would you like, would youlike to try this?
Would you like to try thatversus, oh, I see.
Becoming this, you know,
Mo (25:15):
there wasn't much of an exploratory real.
Or more questioning.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kyley (25:20):
The funny thing was I got the car and the fence didn't get
the family that had been workedout.
Cause it all kind of fell apart.
Because of the engineering.
In some capacity.
But then I was like, cool.
Now I want to grow food.
And that's where I actuallystarted like exploring something
I inherently was interested in.
Which was like, how do you makethe world work?
Like we have all this stuff.
How do you actually like mesh itin a way that makes sense while
(25:42):
helping people at the same time?
The idea of taking what peoplethrow away, putting it into
compost, making more food, andthen giving it to folk.
Blew my mind.
Mo (25:52):
Hm.
That's almost like going back tothe analogy with the dogs and a
rabbit.
It sounds like you realize thatrabbit.
Was it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was the.
Yeah.
Kyley (26:02):
Yeah.
And that, and that inherentlytouched on things that I was
actually interested, but Ididn't know.
Nobody like, no question.
The idea of like, how does stuffwork together?
That's what I really liked it.
And how do you work with peopleto solve problems that actually
matter.
And like make people's livesbetter.
That's really what I wanted tobe about when I was.
In high school or whatever.
And.
I got transformed into making.
(26:24):
Helicopter parts for people.
Busking on the street.
You need a rotor.
Five bucks.
By far.
Angel (26:30):
That changes my perspective of.
You know, being a parent.
How am I looking at?
a.m. (26:36):
I think there's another again, we usually get the, the,
the.
Yeah, the rabbit analogy and I.
But th one of the, you know,fresher diseases we have in the
world right now, it's likethoughts will diseases.
Is, is this sort of Yeah, forthe first toxic positivity.
But, but, but we've now got Thissort of toxic relationship, I
think with purpose.
Hmm, where it's like theassumption that there is a
(26:56):
golden rabbit, you have todefine for yourself.
And I think the rabbit, I thinkthe.
The flip may be.
The realization, not of.
Clarifying like that.
Why that.
A couple of you were referringto.
I think the realization may benot that the why is about the
nature of the rabbit.
But the nature of how I run.
(27:17):
Right.
That that that sense of meaningis not in the outcome.
But in how I want to run.
You know what moves me in mymovement.
Because if it's about definingthe perfect rabbit for me,
Running is still going to gettiring.
Yeah.
Angel (27:32):
So.
I mean, he was talking aboutlike running earlier in a
racetrack.
I'm just like, oh, there's nomoney to chase now I'm running
in circles.
Like the first thing that cameto mind was okay.
I'm going to stop running incircles and I'm going to choose
to go.
This track and just go find myway.
And I feel like oftentimes we.
(27:54):
Have to take different paths tokind of explore different areas,
to see.
Like to define that part ofourselves.
cause even just chasing thebunny around.
Could get tiring, boring, andlike, okay, what's the meaning I
give up.
I'm not chasing you anymore.
You just stay right there.
(28:14):
I ain't running up to you nomore.
Mo (28:16):
Sometimes I'd like to get lost.
I go off the path and then justnot know where to go after that
and just, just sit there andthen find something else to
chase.
For me, I like getting lost andjust.
It's an adventure.
And just figuring out what'swhat's what, where to go.
Scott (28:30):
You kind of see something new.
Yeah.
Because you could
a.m. (28:34):
Be a stranger.
Yeah.
Be a stranger to yourself.
Like, I don't know the path.
Yeah.
It's it's it's what creativework is.
It's why I push create, youknow, like it's not a.
It's not about getting into amuseum or getting an album
publish.
Are they like art is the accesspoint to all this stuff.
Like to make something trulynew, you have to first get lost.
(28:54):
You can't write original, shortstory until you first get lost.
You can't write an original songuntil you first get lost.
Yeah, you can only replicatesongs.
You can only replicate theessays.
If you, if you were on a path,you know, Chuck D never make the
same album twice.
Great.
Bit of advice.
They're going to watch it andmake the album again.
Once you're successful, they'regonna watch make the album get
(29:15):
mad and never make the samealbum twice.
That's death.
But that, that, that wanting towander off the field, like, I, I
absolutely one of the things welike don't do this encourage
kids to take time off.
Like that gap year idea or thatwalk about idea.
Like it's so critical at thatage, I think to just.
Go bump up and not lay aroundand watch TV or whatever, but to
(29:36):
go bump up against the world, godo a thing, right.
And, and, but I think with thatwandering is about as, again,
not finding like what's, what'sthe right golden money for me.
But, but understanding, oh yeah,man.
I enjoy.
Hills.
Like my version of running.
If it's got Hills, I love it.
(29:56):
Or I enjoy.
Uneven terrain.
Or I enjoy flat terrain, right?
Like.
This is how I run it.
If I can run like this.
To the point somebody madeearlier, it almost doesn't
matter what the rabbit is.
As long as I could run likethis.
I'm good with life.
Angel (30:14):
I think that's why I had a hard time.
Throughout my life sticking todoing one thing.
And I eventually became Jean ofall trades.
Because.
Anytime I something caught myinterest.
And.
I began curious about I'm like,I want to learn how to do this.
(30:35):
I'm going to learn how to dothat.
And, you know, eventually withsome of those things, Aye.
I have this Gale or the tool,but.
It's not something that I.
Pursued.
But it's there.
You know,
Scott (30:48):
Yeah, I found that too.
I did try something because it'sinteresting to you and you go
through it, but it doesn'treally make your heart sing.
And then.
Just having a few times for me.
Five 10 years down the line I'mcalled to, to do something in
that skill is exactly what'sneeded.
And it's like, oh, Dan was whatit was for.
That was what the originalinquiry was about.
(31:09):
You know, I had to get out of myown way.
To like, make it work.
Hmm.
Angel (31:13):
Now, so think like I see why like some.
Even college students.
After people go to college.
Whatever they went to collegefor.
It's not what they want to do.
So they spent, you know, I mean,I didn't really attend college
for that long but I've heard somany stories.
(31:33):
Like you spent so many yearsstudying this thing, and once
you're done with it, like.
I don't even want to do this,or, you know, I've seen people.
Actually go to those years andwhen they're done, they're not
even.
In the field.
So it's like, that's, that waslike years of your life that you
(31:53):
wasted.
Yeah.
Mo (31:54):
Some of the people I know who are.
Does I.
Because people told them whattheir, why was.
And mostly from parents.
Or everybody was going tocollege.
So they had to go or in all myfriends and calling, what am I
going to do?
I think those people were scaredto get lost.
So today he just jumped on the.
I'm going to college' and I gota few friends, went in
undecided.
To figure out what they want todo.
(32:14):
Find a major, graduated.
Still it's still not what theywant to do.
Angel (32:18):
Even with some of my students, when I engage with
them in conversations, I.
I asked, like, what do you liketo do?
What are you interest?
Yeah.
And some will be like, I don'tknow.
Or, you know, I really start,like picking their brains.
Like, what about this?
Are you.
Into cooking are you into, like,you're not just naming all these
(32:40):
things to see like water tointerest, you know?
And.
Kind of helping them.
Figure out like how they cannavigate.
And use that and put it intowhat they're doing here.
But I do hear a lot of, I don'tknow, And I think this okay.
Because, you know, there's stillgrowing and still developing
that.
(33:00):
I feel like that age is.
You know, you're like a sponge.
Kind of, I don't know if thatmakes sense.
Scott (33:06):
I think the.
There's a sense that kids thesedays, you know, we always like
kids these days.
But there's a sense that they'realoof and they don't care and
they're not paying attention andstuff, but I feel like they're
absorbing everything.
Constantly and no.
Exactly what's going on.
Even, you know, too much theouter circles.
Yeah.
Where they are.
a.m. (33:26):
Too much.
He has too much information,which further forces, this kind
of sense of what you have to do,what you have to take care of,
what you think we've got like.
You know, 12 year olds who, youknow, Indirectly and maybe even
certain ways directly.
I've been told that they have tofix the planet.
They're going to be responsiblefor fixing the environment.
Yeah.
You know, like that's insane.
(33:48):
That's why I'm going to be thenext 60 years.
Yeah.
It's one of the guys who has tofix the planet, like.
Kyley (33:53):
Or live in a unfixed planet.
Those are your two options.
a.m. (33:56):
That's what I'm going to be, right?
Yep.
I'm going to die or I'm going tochase.
A shit ton of money.
So I could shield myself rightfrom the impending doom.
Like those are my sort of setoptions, like, ah, Yeah.
Yeah.
Scott (34:07):
As if the regular amount of existential dread was.
Right enough.
We're going to add a littlefrosting on there for you.
a.m. (34:13):
And we.
Do it so casually, like, it'sjust, we just do a matter of
fact, we just kind of throw itout there just from like, Sixth
grade teachers teaching, youknow about climate change and
what you need to know.
We do it on the positive side.
Somewhere, you.
We're in full therapy mode.
So let's do the whole thing.
The big catalyzing event free.
So I, I was, I was I mean thislegitimately No joking.
Like I had a disease statecalled intelligence.
(34:36):
Like extreme intelligence.
And it got noticed in like fifthand sixth grade.
And then.
When I was 13 going into highschool.
They're like, holy shit.
And I went through like a week'sworth of like testing kind of
things.
Right.
Got tested with a hundred andfifty five, two hundred sixty
IQ.
And they were like, you're doingcalculus classes, you're going
to do like, and that was like,like, oh my God, I'm locked.
(34:57):
Like, this is going to be mylife and I didn't care.
And all those things.
I cared about music and I caredabout movies and I cared about
people and I cared about, andnow I was like, and everybody
was excited for me.
This was the nightmare.
Like they were like, oh, youwere sent.
You know,
Scott (35:15):
put this plant under the grow lights.
a.m. (35:17):
Yeah, the hyper grow lights, man.
That's.
I'm taking calculus classesfreshman year.
Like you.
You're doing the thing, kid.
You, this is amazing.
And I was like, Ah, but withouthaving awareness at that point,
you're not emotionally preparedfor any of that.
And so I was like, I can't, Ican't do this.
I can.
And then it was four years ofjust, you know, after getting
(35:37):
past that experience by fullhigh school, it was like, just
like.
Just, you know, and I got ascholarship to Rensselaer and
physics at the end of highschool.
Because, you know, I could justkind of coast through the thing
while I was engaging in allsorts of, you know, let's say
experimentations, On the sideand chasing the grateful dead
around.
Having a lot of fun.
(35:58):
And being self-destructive in acertain point of doubt.
And that was another, I mean,that point, fortunately, I was
going to mature enough that,that, you know, Like I was going
off and I had this thing, like.
This is going to go.
This is going to be, nobody toldme.
Any of you are still alive andlistening.
God dammit.
You didn't tell me abouttheoretical physics.
I can get into morephilosophical and artistic.
inquiry.
Right.
(36:18):
Though I imagine.
You know, being in a, you knowlab got a one up to Troy, went
up for the program, was like, ohmy God.
Just going to being at a benchfor the rest of my life or some
version of that.
And at that point I didn't.
You know, again, I had enoughwits about me, but I, but I just
opted out.
You know, it's like just blew itoff.
Then went and did a degree in.
World music and blah, blah,blah.
(36:39):
But like that's a case wherebrought my point is that I take
care of.
So like everybody around thething was positive.
Everybody thought they were outfor my best interest and nobody
had any attention that they werefucking killing me.
Almost literally.
Yeah.
Yep.
Mo (36:57):
Goodwill hunting.
You reminded me of.
As well as looking on the site,that sounds like a good little.
Yeah.
a.m. (37:02):
He internalized all the anger.
I, he externalized all theanger.
I internalized it.
I got into self abuse versus awhat would Damon's character?
Angel (37:11):
Yeah.
What if you would.
Took that route.
I mean, what if is, what iflike.
a.m. (37:18):
So.
Yeah, this is a full therapy.
A session.
I had an older brother.
Who died?
At about six months fromcomplications of poverty.
Which is my, you know, Darkhumor version of.
He died of diarrhea.
Like something they should nothave happened for lack of a just
basic, you know medicine.
Died before I was born and hewould have been the eldest.
(37:39):
And, you know, the Indian familyI'll just, and he would have
been the one that came toAmerica because we could only
afford to bring one.
When my mom came.
So he would have come.
And I would've stayed behind.
So this is part of it.
You said ghost earlier.
I got a twinge of it because itsits with me.
There's a part of me.
That is like, I'm leading hislife.
All right.
Because he would've came over,he would have had these
(38:00):
experiences.
I have no clue who he would havebeen, but in terms of like the,
you know, it's, it's like anactor that's stepped into a
different role, a role that wascast for somebody else.
And I think that may haveactually created a certain kind
of freedom in hindsight.
But I've always had that senseof, you know, It was also the,
what if question leads me there,right?
Because like, I I've got, whatif on three dimensions?
(38:22):
You know Because the way thatthings should have played out is
I was in India.
And grew up there and didn'tcome over here until like high
school or college age, which isone thing.
So down to the family, And then,then, you know, I mean in India
with the, you know, Random luckof the draw disease state.
I do think extreme intelligenceis a disease state.
Great.
I think they have access tohorrible thing to lead from.
(38:44):
There's a lot of good researchon that actually at this point
inverse relationship betweenhappiness and IQ past 120.
But, but with that disease statein the Indian context, at that
point in time, there.
There's no.
Remote possibility.
Ability that I could haveavoided.
That path.
No.
There was no music program I wasgoing into and there was no
(39:07):
grateful dead.
There was no, like there, noneof that.
So, so, yeah, so I got the Whatif on a variety of dimensions.
Scott (39:14):
I remember you talking about that before, and you had,
you had used the, the way it wasdescribed as a bit, you were a
begged child.
a.m. (39:21):
Yeah.
So in that tradition ones, youknow, if you lose a child
particularly a male childbecause patriarchal society.
And then even more extreme yourfirst male child.
Right.
So that.
The child born after that isyeah, basically like, like on
loan from the Lord.
Like you were prayed and Godhasn't decided whether you can
keep it or not.
(39:41):
So for the first year, you'renot allowed to.
Bye at anything, no clothing.
It has to be like used clothingfrom somebody else and all this
stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah, that was the whole.
Scott (39:50):
Yeah, I remember that.
That idea.
And then I came up in some, somesomething I was reading about,
you know, I was reading aboutmy.
Cultural background.
And there's a very similar thingin the Southern Italian.
Religious, you know, sort ofsense of like there's for the
first.
Like nine months or somethingyou have to live as if the child
is not yours, you're taking careof it for somebody else.
(40:13):
Huge thing.
And the.
Yeah.
So it's an sense.
Of.
You know, All right.
We'll give you, we'll give it toyou, but you know, We have to
see if you can keep it.
If you deserve to keep thischild.
As yours.
a.m. (40:27):
I mean, you know, human beings are just so insanely
resilient.
If you think about how that typeof mythology goes up, it's
actually a psychologicalprotective device for the
parents because.
Yeah.
Parents who have children whodie young, have a higher
probability of.
Other children dying youngbecause of some genetic reason
or whatever.
And so this kind of mythologygoes up and it provides a
(40:50):
certain kind of psychologicalprophylactic for the parent.
Where it's like, don't get tooattached, but for cosmic
reasons, right?
So that if that second childalso passes, which again is
going to be a higher probabilitythan, you know, for if your
first one didn't pass.
It's less of a blow.
Right.
I'd imagine something like thatis why all stories like this
(41:11):
build up for practical reasons.
Yeah.
And so, and I'm sure, you know,rural India.
yeah.
A lot of infant deaths.
Yeah.
So,
Scott (41:19):
yeah, from, you know, What we think of as preventable
right now, but the timerdevastate.
a.m. (41:25):
Complications of poverty, man.
Aye.
Aye.
Aye.
Quote, unquote, enjoy thatphrase.
I think it underscores.
A reality.
We still allow to exist in theworld.
Unnecessary.
It's a fucking miracle we're allhere.
Yeah.
the rabbit.
Can we just create our own DAErabbit.
Jeez a rabbit.
If you're looking for one.
Lately, we just like together.
(41:46):
But like, What would that mean?
That's the one.
That's the question.
I don't, I I've been toyingwith, I actually looked at
vendors.
And actually sort of talkingabout the idea of a unicorn as a
mascot in the context of whatunicorn means in the tech world
and the entrepreneurship world.
I did.
Do you have a unicorn is likelythat one in a million.
You know, thing that is, youknow, But the idea here would
(42:08):
be.
Everyone's got an inner unicornand the work here is to find
your unicorn.
That's one unique thing thatonly can come from you.
And that's your unicorn.
Right.
The record is not the one in amillion.
The unicorn is the one thing inme that unique expression.
So I thought that would be kindof cool little, you know,
unicorn plushies that are.
(42:28):
Call get shoulder tattoos.
Okay.
It's temporary tent.
Kyley (42:31):
But I think that's that's.
I mean, that is something.
And there's two things I want toconnect to.
I don't know about it.
I'm going to work.
The conversation that you saidabout being able to basically
claim.
This next loss.
To God.
Is is an interesting approach tothis conversation as well.
That could be beneficial or notbeneficial, where like, if it's
bigger than you, it's no longerabout you, which then it can
(42:54):
kind of Sue some of this throughperiods of difficulty.
And I think we can use thatsometimes as a potential tool.
And I've used it in the pastwhere like, it's not about like
this moment in time.
It's about these moments intime.
As a way to reconnect with thatkind of.
That why?
Why have we keep moving forward?
And I, I, I do continue to askthat question, like in, within
(43:15):
the org, like how do we continueto make space for both students
and staff?
So.
B bring, bring their unicornaspect out in this thing.
Yeah.
I wonder about it sometimes.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Scott (43:26):
I'm here viewing things externally.
I'm not the.
Involved directly in a lot ofwhat's happening.
And I see.
Still, you know, the sort of.
Older.
You know, Montessori.
Ethic, you know kids learnthrough play and pleasure.
They're playing with somethingthey're discovering something
and there's a sort of forwardmomentum that comes from that.
(43:46):
That is less of.
What's the next thing it's moreabout, this is great.
And then discover something newand that kind of stuff.
So.
Did it, you know, the unicornhorns starts to pop out a little
bit.
Kyley (43:58):
Yeah.
And there is an interestingwhere we're actually talking
about on debrief yesterday,where one of our educators is
like, Hey, so what I noticedabout the content was as a
student started kind of goingout and finding other
information.
On making video games and I waslike, perfect.
Like that's, that's the turningpoint and kind of that thing
(44:19):
where it's gone from this, thestuff I'm consuming to like i"m
now, starting to question thewonder.
And like, Yeah.
That's cool.
That's the spark.
That's the, yeah.
That's like, oh, cool.
So you have a question that youdon't know how to answer right
now, and you have somethinginside your game that you're
making in that you don't knowwhat to do with, and we can't
give it to you.
First step.
It's baby steps.
Scott (44:39):
You probably remember from engineering school, it's
like, no, you don't do that.
There's the method.
Which method are you going?
Kyley (44:46):
That's exactly what it is.
It is.
It is the method.
This is, this is the formula youuse to figure out this question.
Do you think you put these twoformulistic.
Figure out this question.
I don't know how to close thisconversation out.
We put a little hat on it.
a.m. (45:01):
But, yeah, we've thrown around the word suicide a dozen
times in this conversation, butI think.
You know, we shouldn't post thethe hotline because you just,
you don't know who's listeningand what state they're in and we
we are, we are not cliniciansand we are not any of that, but
if your local.
And you're confused.
Assuming you're safe.
You feel free to come and hangout.
(45:22):
And we're we're place.
You can come hang out if you'reconfused.
Make Tea.
We'll make TEA we've got Tea.
We'll hang out.
Yeah.
We will vet you though to makesure you're safe for our, for
our broader community.
But that's it safe is the onlycriteria.
Other than that all are welcome.
IMPORTANT NOTE
around the topic of suicide,which may be distressing for
some listeners.
If you are struggling withthoughts of suicide or know
someone who is, seek helpimmediately.
You are not alone and there areresources available to help.
Consider reaching out to atrusted medical professional or
contacting an organizationdedicated to crisis support,
(01:56):
such as the National SuicidePrevention Lifeline at 1-800- 2
7 3 TALK.
Be mindful that everyone'sexperience with mental health is
unique, and what is discussed inthis episode may not align with
your own experience.
Please take care of your mentalhealth, and reach out to a
professional if you're in need.
the National Suicide PreventionLifeline 1-800- 2 7 3 TALK.
a.m. (02:19):
And the voices in today's conversation are Angel Cruz,
Kyley Komschlies, Mohameth Seck,And our producer as always is
Scott Amore all are colleaguesof mine at DAE.
Let's listen in.
Scott (02:32):
Kyley had some dark stuff you wanted to start with.
So.
Kyley (02:34):
No.
I said it was a question thatthat could potentially be dark.
a.m. (02:37):
Did you disclose it yet or?
Kyley (02:38):
No?
Due to some of the conversationsI've had recently with folk.
And what you brought up in kindof huddle yesterday.
Like, whereas life is this,like, can feel like this grind
right now.
It's winter time.
Doesn't feel like anyone'shaving fun.
And so like, just my generalquestion is like, Why keep
going?
a.m. (02:55):
Wow.
Yep.
Kyley (02:56):
Like it seems like that's a question, like a lot of people
are, it's the answer of like, Iam just going, because that's
what I'm doing right now.
And I'm wondering like, Why?.
a.m. (03:05):
Yeah.
So I I'm gonna I'm.
I'm going to reframe yourquestion.
And we've used as a startingpoint.
Okay.
So.
The question I'm hearing youask..
What happens?
If the dog in the dog racerealizes that the bunny, he or
she is chasing.
Yeah, isn't a real bunny.
What's the reason to keeprunning.
Is that it?
Kyley (03:26):
Yeah, I think that's part of it.
It's a mixture of that.
Like, how do you know that themoney or chasing is actually the
bunny?
As one is one.
And it's not, not totally that,but as someone who is often
found himself, just like doingthe thing, because that's what I
do.
Yeah.
It's a mixture of that.
And then it's like thiscontinued practice.
(03:46):
Like I started this like kind ofprayer slash mantra with myself
coming from silence of God.
But like, God help me live mylife as opposed to like, God
help me live or, or continue toget this thing.
It's like helped me actuallylike live and experience this
thing.
For me when that Why gets fuzzy,that living gets harder.
Yup.
(04:06):
And so that's kind of where thatquestion comes from myself and
then talking to other people isjust like, things are hard up.
I'm still, I'm still going.
I'm still going.
I'm still going.
And rarely do I hear thoseconversations of like, This is
why I'm going as opposed to theact of going.
Which leads more to yourquestion of like, yeah, I'm
chasing this rabbit.
a.m. (04:22):
Yeah.
I mean I'll I'll I'll I'llcontinue.
Just, just framing of thisquestion.
I'll I'll.
The darkness on it.
Sure.
And trigger warning for folkslistening.
But, but, but Camus who's is.
You know, I'm not big onphilosophers per se.
But, but, but Camus would be myfavorite philosopher.
If we went down that path,mainly for his writing.
His, his narrative writing.
(04:43):
said that there is only onequestion for a human being.
The first question.
I'm paraphrasing, but the firstquestion, which is, should I
commit suicide?
And then in confronting thatquestion.
Now the whole thing, becausewhat he's pointing to there,
like it sounds dark.
And of course it is dark in acertain way, but what he's
pointing to is that thefoundational question is you
(05:04):
must generate meaning.
Yeah.
You know, in order to answerthat.
Question in the negative?
No, I will not commit suicide.
Requires that you generatemeaning.
And so for the existentialistand for the absurdist.
This sort of acknowledgementthat that life is absurd, that
this kind of chase this.
The things we do just I'll bein, if you step back and look at
(05:25):
them and it's like, it's just.
It's absurd.
It's just.
It makes no tell it.
And in the face.
And so, but that's not the end.
Right.
You also said that therealization that, that, you
know, the, the whole thing isfundamentally absurd.
It's not the end point.
That's the starting point isokay.
If that is so now.
For what will I live?
And there's an imperative todefine that there's an
obligation.
(05:45):
Requirement to define that andto divine that every day.
You put that in the context of asociety that.
Fundamentally.
Two minutes in folks I'm alreadyon my.
It's the society of a tangent,but you put that in the context
of a society that from day one,Takes you out of that question.
Around what is your generatedmeeting and then replaces it
(06:08):
with here's the meeting.
Here's where you're supposed tobe.
Here's what you're supposed tochase.
Here's what you.
Here's your supposed to ride goand then reward you for going,
right.
And so.
Dog running around the raceshop, chasing the rabbit because
you're suppose to want therabbit.
And so it leads you away fromthat question that, you know,
the camera and theexistentialist pointing to,
which is no.
What does the meaning?
(06:29):
I'm generating.
Angel (06:30):
I feel like that's a question that.
Really won't be answered.
And so I agree with you.
When you talk about society,because that's exactly what it
is, but.
At some point.
You have to separate yourselffrom society to actually kind of
do some self-reflect thingstowards yourself and.
Let's see, what is the meaningof living right.
(06:52):
I would definitely say that.
It could get really dark.
We like, like why.
Why, why should I keep going?
You know And at the end of theday, it comes down to the
choices that you make.
'cause some people really dotake that choice.
I'm going to commit suicidebecause.
I don't have nothing to livefor.
I can't do this no more.
I it's just too much for me.
(07:13):
Right.
It goes back to how powerful ourbrain is.
Where we can actually train ourminds to go down a certain.
And.
What we put our minds to ispretty much what will take
place.
So the meaning.
I mean.
I would definitely say like ingeneral, meaning will be
liability, especially if youhave you.
(07:34):
You know, humans that rely onyou.
That is a huge reason.
But when it comes to yourself,That can be a question.
It could go on for like, Ages.
a.m. (07:46):
I'm just sitting here thinking about it.
Okay.
Do we really want to get intothis or do we want it?
Yeah, let's.
Really get into this to thedegree, to which, you know,
we're up, we're getting intothis.
So.
I had an obviously failedsuicide attempt as a young
human.
13.
And The sort of reflection backon it.
You know, there's no way to bein this world.
(08:08):
And be me.
I don't even know what me is.
At 13.
But what I have clarity about isthat there's no way to be in
this world.
Given what the invitations andthe pressures and the.
Whole thing is.
The, what I do know is I can'tbe me.
Without even knowing who me isright at that age.
(08:29):
I have no clue.
That's, you know, the commonversion of, of where you get to
that extremes.
I'm sure there are many pathsthat saying I'm sure that
chemical issues I'm sure.
Right.
But I say that.
To then say.
What I think the Experienceactually was, was.
Not.
There's no way to be me in thisworld.
(08:49):
Like that's kind of one layer,but then deeper layer that is.
Oh, I'm already dead.
Like, I actually don't exist inthis thing.
I'm playing what I'm supposed toplay, but I don't actually exist
in this thing.
And so, and I'm tired of therole.
I'm tired of the, yeah, becauseagain, I saw the bunny, the
bunnies fake.
But what there is to do is tochase the bunny.
(09:10):
And there's so I'm not, I'malready not here.
So what's the point.
Right.
Unfortunately having, you know,Not read yet.
Kevin with that point.
It did after that experience,get the realization.
Oh yeah, shit.
I gotta, I gotta, I gotta makeup a bunny.
That works for me.
And then, you know, A goodhealthy Hardy, fuck you to.
What all the various stuffedbunnies were that were being
(09:32):
thrown at me.
We did get dark.
Kyley (09:35):
I started I said so.
Angel (09:37):
I mean.
I feel that it's necessarybecause.
Darkness exist.
Yes.
Kyley (09:43):
And I do.
And then I asked this questiontruly, because I think people
ask themselves this question.
And I often I've asked myselfthis question during this time
of the year.
Fortunately, I'm not in thatplace right now.
When I, I have in the past, myapproach was very different.
It wasn't, I can't be me.
It's that?
Me causes harm.
Hmm.
Right.
I'm I'm in the way I'mproblematic.
(10:04):
My softest is, is making theworld a worse place.
Yeah.
Scott (10:08):
I think we work our way through day to day.
Whatever it is we choose to dowith our time sometimes.
It chooses us.
Depending on how our life hasbeen.
Unfolding.
But there's always this illusionof separateness, I think.
When did you know.
When, when do you hit that pointwhere you realize that you're
not really separate, but theencouragement is to, I think you
(10:32):
said in the last podcast, like.
You know, individuate.
Way too.
Claim your own space.
Has to come full circle to thisidea of like I'm part of a
bigger picture.
You know, sometimes you don'thave that.
In the moment.
In those desperate moments whenyou need it, the most.
And if that happens oftenenough, you can start to believe
(10:52):
that.
I am separate.
I am no good.
I am bad.
I am damaging whatever it is.
Like your narrative that you'retold from other sources.
Thing that changed it for me wasit was really late in life too.
I was probably.
Late thirties, 40 of like thisidea of, you know, oh, like life
is kinda like a dance.
(11:13):
You know, like the point is notto get someplace on the floor.
It's just a dance.
And, you know, I'm not a dancer,but you get the idea.
The point of the dance is thedance.
And.
You know, that, that in the.
Sort of sacred stuff that I wasreading.
You know, There's there's warthere's.
Love there's, you know, passionand all these things are.
(11:37):
Told through ritual.
And celebration of ritual andthen.
What are you going to do?
Is the big question.
Everybody kind of panics, like,what am I going to do?
Oh my God, what am I going todo?
Angel (11:47):
You know, growing up.
I've always felt like I wasseeing from someone else's lens.
And just looking at everybody.
How.
They were better than me and Imean, siblings.
And also I'm ashamed justbecause, you know, being in a
foster home.
And then.
You know, Transitioning.
(12:09):
To back to my biological mom.
Was a huge transition.
And so.
It was two differentatmospheres.
And so.
Being in foster home, I wasloved care for.
And I felt like that was veryimportant, those first five
years of my life, because it's,you know, it's needed, you.
(12:30):
You know, especially at thatstage.
And then going, transitioningback.
Two.
Okay.
It was different.
It was chaos.
And I had siblings and.
We were treated differently.
And so growing up, it was justlike, oh, okay.
She's better than me.
What's so special about her.
(12:52):
You know, Not getting the sametreatment.
And so that led me growing up.
To seeing things like fromdifferent lens, like.
That's how I need to be in orderto be loved or accepted, or look
that Mr.
I'm way.
And.
It wasn't until, I mean, manythings happened throughout.
That gap.
13 years old until I was like18.
(13:15):
It just.
A lot of things happen.
It just came down to like, Feveryone I'm going to do this my
way.
I'm going to choose.
To live.
Life.
That I want to live.
And it wasn't more, it wasn'tlike an arrogant.
Prideful.
Attitude.
It was more like, I'm going tobe who I want to be, because I
(13:36):
don't need to live this way oract this way to be accepted.
I'm going to actually dedicatemyself.
To learning.
I'm a dedicate myself to doingwhatever it is that I have to do
to become this person that Iwant to be.
And this person that I want tobe is pretty much become the
person that I would have lovedfor people.
(13:59):
And I ain't going to.
You know, be specific on who,but.
For people to look at me the wayI wanted to be looked at.
And so, yeah, it just got to thepoint on like F the whole world.
I don't care.
I don't even care what you say.
More like it is what it is, but.
That transition itself.
Also led to a dark.
(14:21):
Moment of my life, because thenlayers started to come off and
peel off and I'm like, oh, okay.
I didn't know that.
I still felt this way at.
I didn't know that this wasstill attached to me, you know?
And it did lead for me toattempting suicide.
At one point.
I do appreciate the people thatI was around at the time.
(14:42):
But it was a really, really darkmoment.
And.
I don't know how I overcame it,but.
It was hard.
It was hard.
It was hard.
But I would definitely say whenI did overcame it.
It made me.
Be as strong a person.
Instill that questions thoughremains.
Why am I living?
For what.
(15:03):
And so I just told myself I'mnot living for myself.
I'm living.
Another person.
I'm living for whoever I'maround them.
I'm living for whoever.
I can impact.
You know, In a way that willhelp them.
You know, so it's, it'sdefinitely how you train your
mind.
Hmm.
Scott (15:20):
I'm curious that did that change when you had kids.
Looking at a couple of you.
Did you feel like something.
Aligned differently.
Angel (15:29):
It did, but it took time.
Because when I became a parent,I had no idea.
I thought I knew what I wasdoing, but I had no idea what I
was doing.
And he took time.
To actually.
See that.
She's.
A whole human being.
You know, She actually exists.
You know, But yeah.
(15:51):
Yeah.
And even then like, Even then.
We're still our own self.
So.
That question is still remains.
You know what I mean?
It's still remains becauseyou're one person.
And you still have to get up andlive every day.
Yeah.
Oh, Hmm.
a.m. (16:10):
Public therapy session.
I to answer your question.
I don't want to Dodge yourquestion.
Cause that's what actually hadme from the thing about the
group.
The thing kids were, I say, Ialways say kids.
I have one biological child.
I have two nephews that Iconsider my children.
By the time that.
Th they were all born.
I was well past, like I had aclarity about myself and that,
you know, And so these sort ofissues just weren't on the table
(16:32):
and.
You know, the last sort of phaseof my marriage.
A version of the same darkness,I think sort of entered because
I think there was, there was asimilar.
Not anywhere near, you know,but, but.
That sense of, you know, I'mchasing a rabbit.
That I actually don't want.
Like in terms of the lifestyle,in terms of the, you know And
again, I, I don't know if thisis the only way people get to
(16:55):
the places we're talking about.
Right.
But there does seem to be athing.
In this society that it is verydifficult for people to break
out of.
Who they're known to be.
And.
To internalize.
As who I know, I be based on whoI've known to be.
And then now I can not onlybreak out of that out there, but
(17:16):
I can't break out of this inhere.
And yet there's a part of methat knows this ain't me.
Angel (17:21):
Would you say is because the expectation.
Of what other people.
a.m. (17:26):
I think a good, it can be healthy things like expertise, a
sense of genuine obligation andcommitment and care.
Like you said, like I can't.
You know, like I actually, Iheard you saying I'm having a
negative impact, which implies.
That I actually care about thesepeople.
Put the world, right.
And so it can come from that.
I think.
It can come from more burdened,like, you know people force me
(17:48):
to be this way.
Like they won't let me, right.
So I think it can be.
Either side of it.
But, but, but rightly orwrongly, I think the, the
individual senses that There'sno way to be me here.
There is this, this, you know,Again, there is who I'm supposed
to be.
And then maybe even aninternalization of that.
And some part of me, whether I'maware of it or not.
(18:08):
Is just like this ain't us, thisain't us, this ain't us.
And again, back to that, that,that.
Yeah, that, that dog racingthing it becomes, it just
becomes you realize.
The rabbit's fake, but you'restill running at full speed and
it's like, whoa, huh?
Y.
But there's no other thing to doin Rome.
Well, what else am I doing onthe racetrack?
If I'm not running after the.
What is there to do here?
Yep.
It's a loop.
(18:30):
Yeah.
Kyley (18:31):
They mowed their naming flowers in the middle of me to
go smell.
Scott (18:33):
I remember this.
I had a particularly like roughpatch probably 15 years ago or
so, just trying to figure out,like, what am I doing?
Well, you know, am I going theright way?
Am I doing the right thing?
Am I.
Should I just.
Do the opposite of my instincts,you know, for a change and see
if that helps.
You.
Just trying to figure it out.
And a good friend of mine.
Sent me this hand, drawnpostcard that he made to have a
(18:56):
little, like a little Pac-Manand a ghost on it and stuff.
And it was just like this.
You know, saying hello kind ofthing.
But I had been, I had told himkind of what I was going through
and stuff, and he, his way of.
Addressing it was, he said,There was something wrong with
your ghost.
Hmm.
You know, and I was like,there's, you know, it kind of
resonated with me in a way oflike, oh yeah.
(19:16):
Like the spirit that animates meis confused or caught or
something.
And it needs to be kind ofshaken up a little bit.
And it really just took like a,you know, a trip out of my own.
Out of my own house, out of myown environment, out of my own
group of friends and justtravel.
Just go some place I've neverbeen before and just kind of
look around.
And, and when I got back, I kindof had more clarity as to like
(19:38):
what was missing.
But that phrase, it's somethingwrong with your ghost is going
to really resonated with me.
And I think about it quite abit.
a.m. (19:45):
It's the way you just set apart.
Part of that Scott ruins.
When I do road trips a lot.
Right.
And fewer the last couple ofyears, and then I would love,
but I love like road trips andlong road trips.
And I.
I've said this to people all thetime.
It's either proactively or inresponse to like, Like, but you
don't.
Yeah, you're on the road for amonth and you don't know anybody
(20:07):
and you're not going with them,but I'm like, One of the things
I love about road trips is notmeeting strangers.
The although that's great.
But it's getting to be astranger.
Everywhere I go, I am anabsolute, I could be anybody.
I could be a CIA spy.
I could be a wall street banker.
(20:28):
I am a stranger.
And they get to go in thoseplaces and just generate myself.
I love that.
It's free of all their, norabbits inherently.
There are no rabbits.
Yeah.
Mo (20:37):
What do you mean when you say there's no rabbits, like
there's.
a.m. (20:40):
There's no expectation of who I'm supposed to be.
Mo (20:42):
What are you supposed to like, what are you supposed to
chase or,
a.m. (20:44):
Yeah.
I'm supposed to be, I'm supposedto act like I walk into a place
where people don't know me.
At all right.
Particularly if it's a differentgeography.
Right.
Like, like a differentsubculture in the country.
There's nothing for me to liveup to.
Other than the broad, basichuman boundaries of don't be
rude.
And don't be, which is fine.
But there's nothing I have toperform.
(21:06):
Whether I want to, or not.
I have to.
I have to actively generate.
Well, I am here.
Versus like I walk in thisbuilding.
I think we all have really goodrelationships.
I think we all have free to, Ifeel freedom to kind of like I'm
having a whatever day to kind ofsay that.
And we make that part of ourpractice, but I walk in.
And you all know who I am.
(21:27):
You know what I mean in thesame, like I know who you are,
there's a certain amount of thatyou can't escape, even when it's
healthy.
But when I'm road tripping andI'm in some dive bar in, in, in
some tiny town in, in, inTennessee or wherever.
Nothing.
They know nothing.
Yeah, the CEO and nothing.
I'm just, I mean, Now there isa, like a dive bar in a small
(21:47):
town.
You know, in Tennessee.
There are some things certainly.
Sure for sure.
As a brown man.
Yeah.
Potentially, right.
So, so a certain amount of thatyou can't escape, but
Scott (21:59):
you got to stand up and be like, all right, I'm going to
call it huddle here.
Then we're going to check in.
I find the regions that we sortof have a historical sense of
not being accepting toeverybody.
Ironically or the places wherepeople seem to be most friendly
and open and we'll have aconversation with you.
You know, on, on multiplelevels.
You know, just even if it's justsmall talk, so it's this weird
(22:20):
kind of like.
I feel like maybe there's asense of like, see we're not so
bad.
You know, We'll say hello toeverybody and, you know, Ask you
how you're doing and you know,where'd you get those shoes or
whatever, whatever it is therethey use to kind of break the
ice.
But that's covering up you know,A whole lot of mess.
Under there you.
Just like, you know, Whensomebody says.
(22:42):
Bless his heart.
But they really mean.
Yeah.
Mo (22:45):
Took me a while to realize what that meant.
It's all someone from NorthCarolina.
Kyley (22:48):
I don't know if anyone else resonates this, but my, my
Why for continuing to go is verymuch based on the why I didn't
want to go for a period of timeand making the world a better
place for the, the, the me.
Of the now.
I don't know, like, not me as aperson, but like who.
Who I could have used around mein that point in my time, if
someone was just glad to seeyou.
(23:10):
Looking out asking questionsinviting you.
This soup and.
What do you want to be about?
Not in a way of like, you haveto be about it, but like, how do
you source what it is you'reabout in the world?
That's something that I thinkabout sometimes.
Mo (23:24):
That question was asked more when I was a kid.
We're on other people.
Looked at what I was doing.
And he said, you know, likethere's a lot of, oh, you look
like you could do this, or youshouldn't do that.
Oh, that makes me wonder howmuch that shaped.
Me person with tech.
Cause I thought tech was cool.
I like electronics and all that.
Growing up.
I don't.
I wish people asked me more ofthat question.
(23:45):
Yeah.
Because I feel like the.
When you're young.
People look at your data.
They're kind of like.
I don't know.
John someone making a decision.
Kyley (23:53):
I think something we forget sometimes is tech is a
vehicle.
Engineering is a vehicle.
Math is a vehicle like they,aren't not, they don't
necessarily have to be the endresult.
They are a.
A a way to do something right.
Poetry, all those things areways of, of.
Doing some form of work in theworld.
And without that about.
(24:14):
You're just making tech.
Which can be okay.
But I haven't found it to befulfilling for myself.
Part of the reason I leftengineering to engineer wasn't.
It was what I was doing withwhat I had, that that actually
mattered.
It had gave me a reason to keepdoing stuff.
All right.
Mo (24:30):
Did you ever ask yourself a, why this, why this pathway.
Kyley (24:33):
Why engineering?
A hundred percent know why Ichose engineering.
I can, I can, I can tell you themoment I chose to be an engineer
and my lifetime.
I think we actually talked aboutthe podcast.
I was building stuff with whatconnects and my dad was like
many, be a great engineer.
And then there was some timedown the road, like that was
like, oh, that is a thing in mybrain.
And then someone said to me,you're good at math and you want
to make money.
Go to college for engineeringand like cool.
(24:56):
That's it.
We did it.
We're doing it.
I'm going to have a fence and acar and a family.
It's going to be great.
Angel (25:04):
But that goes back to what most.
I was like, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
What are you into?
What are you?
What would you like, would youlike to try this?
Would you like to try thatversus, oh, I see.
Becoming this, you know,
Mo (25:15):
there wasn't much of an exploratory real.
Or more questioning.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kyley (25:20):
The funny thing was I got the car and the fence didn't get
the family that had been workedout.
Cause it all kind of fell apart.
Because of the engineering.
In some capacity.
But then I was like, cool.
Now I want to grow food.
And that's where I actuallystarted like exploring something
I inherently was interested in.
Which was like, how do you makethe world work?
Like we have all this stuff.
How do you actually like mesh itin a way that makes sense while
(25:42):
helping people at the same time?
The idea of taking what peoplethrow away, putting it into
compost, making more food, andthen giving it to folk.
Blew my mind.
Mo (25:52):
Hm.
That's almost like going back tothe analogy with the dogs and a
rabbit.
It sounds like you realize thatrabbit.
Was it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was the.
Yeah.
Kyley (26:02):
Yeah.
And that, and that inherentlytouched on things that I was
actually interested, but Ididn't know.
Nobody like, no question.
The idea of like, how does stuffwork together?
That's what I really liked it.
And how do you work with peopleto solve problems that actually
matter.
And like make people's livesbetter.
That's really what I wanted tobe about when I was.
In high school or whatever.
And.
I got transformed into making.
(26:24):
Helicopter parts for people.
Busking on the street.
You need a rotor.
Five bucks.
By far.
Angel (26:30):
That changes my perspective of.
You know, being a parent.
How am I looking at?
a.m. (26:36):
I think there's another again, we usually get the, the,
the.
Yeah, the rabbit analogy and I.
But th one of the, you know,fresher diseases we have in the
world right now, it's likethoughts will diseases.
Is, is this sort of Yeah, forthe first toxic positivity.
But, but, but we've now got Thissort of toxic relationship, I
think with purpose.
Hmm, where it's like theassumption that there is a
(26:56):
golden rabbit, you have todefine for yourself.
And I think the rabbit, I thinkthe.
The flip may be.
The realization, not of.
Clarifying like that.
Why that.
A couple of you were referringto.
I think the realization may benot that the why is about the
nature of the rabbit.
But the nature of how I run.
(27:17):
Right.
That that that sense of meaningis not in the outcome.
But in how I want to run.
You know what moves me in mymovement.
Because if it's about definingthe perfect rabbit for me,
Running is still going to gettiring.
Yeah.
Angel (27:32):
So.
I mean, he was talking aboutlike running earlier in a
racetrack.
I'm just like, oh, there's nomoney to chase now I'm running
in circles.
Like the first thing that cameto mind was okay.
I'm going to stop running incircles and I'm going to choose
to go.
This track and just go find myway.
And I feel like oftentimes we.
(27:54):
Have to take different paths tokind of explore different areas,
to see.
Like to define that part ofourselves.
cause even just chasing thebunny around.
Could get tiring, boring, andlike, okay, what's the meaning I
give up.
I'm not chasing you anymore.
You just stay right there.
(28:14):
I ain't running up to you nomore.
Mo (28:16):
Sometimes I'd like to get lost.
I go off the path and then justnot know where to go after that
and just, just sit there andthen find something else to
chase.
For me, I like getting lost andjust.
It's an adventure.
And just figuring out what'swhat's what, where to go.
Scott (28:30):
You kind of see something new.
Yeah.
Because you could
a.m. (28:34):
Be a stranger.
Yeah.
Be a stranger to yourself.
Like, I don't know the path.
Yeah.
It's it's it's what creativework is.
It's why I push create, youknow, like it's not a.
It's not about getting into amuseum or getting an album
publish.
Are they like art is the accesspoint to all this stuff.
Like to make something trulynew, you have to first get lost.
(28:54):
You can't write original, shortstory until you first get lost.
You can't write an original songuntil you first get lost.
Yeah, you can only replicatesongs.
You can only replicate theessays.
If you, if you were on a path,you know, Chuck D never make the
same album twice.
Great.
Bit of advice.
They're going to watch it andmake the album again.
Once you're successful, they'regonna watch make the album get
(29:15):
mad and never make the samealbum twice.
That's death.
But that, that, that wanting towander off the field, like, I, I
absolutely one of the things welike don't do this encourage
kids to take time off.
Like that gap year idea or thatwalk about idea.
Like it's so critical at thatage, I think to just.
Go bump up and not lay aroundand watch TV or whatever, but to
(29:36):
go bump up against the world, godo a thing, right.
And, and, but I think with thatwandering is about as, again,
not finding like what's, what'sthe right golden money for me.
But, but understanding, oh yeah,man.
I enjoy.
Hills.
Like my version of running.
If it's got Hills, I love it.
(29:56):
Or I enjoy.
Uneven terrain.
Or I enjoy flat terrain, right?
Like.
This is how I run it.
If I can run like this.
To the point somebody madeearlier, it almost doesn't
matter what the rabbit is.
As long as I could run likethis.
I'm good with life.
Angel (30:14):
I think that's why I had a hard time.
Throughout my life sticking todoing one thing.
And I eventually became Jean ofall trades.
Because.
Anytime I something caught myinterest.
And.
I began curious about I'm like,I want to learn how to do this.
(30:35):
I'm going to learn how to dothat.
And, you know, eventually withsome of those things, Aye.
I have this Gale or the tool,but.
It's not something that I.
Pursued.
But it's there.
You know,
Scott (30:48):
Yeah, I found that too.
I did try something because it'sinteresting to you and you go
through it, but it doesn'treally make your heart sing.
And then.
Just having a few times for me.
Five 10 years down the line I'mcalled to, to do something in
that skill is exactly what'sneeded.
And it's like, oh, Dan was whatit was for.
That was what the originalinquiry was about.
(31:09):
You know, I had to get out of myown way.
To like, make it work.
Hmm.
Angel (31:13):
Now, so think like I see why like some.
Even college students.
After people go to college.
Whatever they went to collegefor.
It's not what they want to do.
So they spent, you know, I mean,I didn't really attend college
for that long but I've heard somany stories.
(31:33):
Like you spent so many yearsstudying this thing, and once
you're done with it, like.
I don't even want to do this,or, you know, I've seen people.
Actually go to those years andwhen they're done, they're not
even.
In the field.
So it's like, that's, that waslike years of your life that you
(31:53):
wasted.
Yeah.
Mo (31:54):
Some of the people I know who are.
Does I.
Because people told them whattheir, why was.
And mostly from parents.
Or everybody was going tocollege.
So they had to go or in all myfriends and calling, what am I
going to do?
I think those people were scaredto get lost.
So today he just jumped on the.
I'm going to college' and I gota few friends, went in
undecided.
To figure out what they want todo.
(32:14):
Find a major, graduated.
Still it's still not what theywant to do.
Angel (32:18):
Even with some of my students, when I engage with
them in conversations, I.
I asked, like, what do you liketo do?
What are you interest?
Yeah.
And some will be like, I don'tknow.
Or, you know, I really start,like picking their brains.
Like, what about this?
Are you.
Into cooking are you into, like,you're not just naming all these
(32:40):
things to see like water tointerest, you know?
And.
Kind of helping them.
Figure out like how they cannavigate.
And use that and put it intowhat they're doing here.
But I do hear a lot of, I don'tknow, And I think this okay.
Because, you know, there's stillgrowing and still developing
that.
(33:00):
I feel like that age is.
You know, you're like a sponge.
Kind of, I don't know if thatmakes sense.
Scott (33:06):
I think the.
There's a sense that kids thesedays, you know, we always like
kids these days.
But there's a sense that they'realoof and they don't care and
they're not paying attention andstuff, but I feel like they're
absorbing everything.
Constantly and no.
Exactly what's going on.
Even, you know, too much theouter circles.
Yeah.
Where they are.
a.m. (33:26):
Too much.
He has too much information,which further forces, this kind
of sense of what you have to do,what you have to take care of,
what you think we've got like.
You know, 12 year olds who, youknow, Indirectly and maybe even
certain ways directly.
I've been told that they have tofix the planet.
They're going to be responsiblefor fixing the environment.
Yeah.
You know, like that's insane.
(33:48):
That's why I'm going to be thenext 60 years.
Yeah.
It's one of the guys who has tofix the planet, like.
Kyley (33:53):
Or live in a unfixed planet.
Those are your two options.
a.m. (33:56):
That's what I'm going to be, right?
Yep.
I'm going to die or I'm going tochase.
A shit ton of money.
So I could shield myself rightfrom the impending doom.
Like those are my sort of setoptions, like, ah, Yeah.
Yeah.
Scott (34:07):
As if the regular amount of existential dread was.
Right enough.
We're going to add a littlefrosting on there for you.
a.m. (34:13):
And we.
Do it so casually, like, it'sjust, we just do a matter of
fact, we just kind of throw itout there just from like, Sixth
grade teachers teaching, youknow about climate change and
what you need to know.
We do it on the positive side.
Somewhere, you.
We're in full therapy mode.
So let's do the whole thing.
The big catalyzing event free.
So I, I was, I was I mean thislegitimately No joking.
Like I had a disease statecalled intelligence.
(34:36):
Like extreme intelligence.
And it got noticed in like fifthand sixth grade.
And then.
When I was 13 going into highschool.
They're like, holy shit.
And I went through like a week'sworth of like testing kind of
things.
Right.
Got tested with a hundred andfifty five, two hundred sixty
IQ.
And they were like, you're doingcalculus classes, you're going
to do like, and that was like,like, oh my God, I'm locked.
(34:57):
Like, this is going to be mylife and I didn't care.
And all those things.
I cared about music and I caredabout movies and I cared about
people and I cared about, andnow I was like, and everybody
was excited for me.
This was the nightmare.
Like they were like, oh, youwere sent.
You know,
Scott (35:15):
put this plant under the grow lights.
a.m. (35:17):
Yeah, the hyper grow lights, man.
That's.
I'm taking calculus classesfreshman year.
Like you.
You're doing the thing, kid.
You, this is amazing.
And I was like, Ah, but withouthaving awareness at that point,
you're not emotionally preparedfor any of that.
And so I was like, I can't, Ican't do this.
I can.
And then it was four years ofjust, you know, after getting
(35:37):
past that experience by fullhigh school, it was like, just
like.
Just, you know, and I got ascholarship to Rensselaer and
physics at the end of highschool.
Because, you know, I could justkind of coast through the thing
while I was engaging in allsorts of, you know, let's say
experimentations, On the sideand chasing the grateful dead
around.
Having a lot of fun.
(35:58):
And being self-destructive in acertain point of doubt.
And that was another, I mean,that point, fortunately, I was
going to mature enough that,that, you know, Like I was going
off and I had this thing, like.
This is going to go.
This is going to be, nobody toldme.
Any of you are still alive andlistening.
God dammit.
You didn't tell me abouttheoretical physics.
I can get into morephilosophical and artistic.
inquiry.
Right.
(36:18):
Though I imagine.
You know, being in a, you knowlab got a one up to Troy, went
up for the program, was like, ohmy God.
Just going to being at a benchfor the rest of my life or some
version of that.
And at that point I didn't.
You know, again, I had enoughwits about me, but I, but I just
opted out.
You know, it's like just blew itoff.
Then went and did a degree in.
World music and blah, blah,blah.
(36:39):
But like that's a case wherebrought my point is that I take
care of.
So like everybody around thething was positive.
Everybody thought they were outfor my best interest and nobody
had any attention that they werefucking killing me.
Almost literally.
Yeah.
Yep.
Mo (36:57):
Goodwill hunting.
You reminded me of.
As well as looking on the site,that sounds like a good little.
Yeah.
a.m. (37:02):
He internalized all the anger.
I, he externalized all theanger.
I internalized it.
I got into self abuse versus awhat would Damon's character?
Angel (37:11):
Yeah.
What if you would.
Took that route.
I mean, what if is, what iflike.
a.m. (37:18):
So.
Yeah, this is a full therapy.
A session.
I had an older brother.
Who died?
At about six months fromcomplications of poverty.
Which is my, you know, Darkhumor version of.
He died of diarrhea.
Like something they should nothave happened for lack of a just
basic, you know medicine.
Died before I was born and hewould have been the eldest.
(37:39):
And, you know, the Indian familyI'll just, and he would have
been the one that came toAmerica because we could only
afford to bring one.
When my mom came.
So he would have come.
And I would've stayed behind.
So this is part of it.
You said ghost earlier.
I got a twinge of it because itsits with me.
There's a part of me.
That is like, I'm leading hislife.
All right.
Because he would've came over,he would have had these
(38:00):
experiences.
I have no clue who he would havebeen, but in terms of like the,
you know, it's, it's like anactor that's stepped into a
different role, a role that wascast for somebody else.
And I think that may haveactually created a certain kind
of freedom in hindsight.
But I've always had that senseof, you know, It was also the,
what if question leads me there,right?
Because like, I I've got, whatif on three dimensions?
(38:22):
You know Because the way thatthings should have played out is
I was in India.
And grew up there and didn'tcome over here until like high
school or college age, which isone thing.
So down to the family, And then,then, you know, I mean in India
with the, you know, Random luckof the draw disease state.
I do think extreme intelligenceis a disease state.
Great.
I think they have access tohorrible thing to lead from.
(38:44):
There's a lot of good researchon that actually at this point
inverse relationship betweenhappiness and IQ past 120.
But, but with that disease statein the Indian context, at that
point in time, there.
There's no.
Remote possibility.
Ability that I could haveavoided.
That path.
No.
There was no music program I wasgoing into and there was no
(39:07):
grateful dead.
There was no, like there, noneof that.
So, so, yeah, so I got the Whatif on a variety of dimensions.
Scott (39:14):
I remember you talking about that before, and you had,
you had used the, the way it wasdescribed as a bit, you were a
begged child.
a.m. (39:21):
Yeah.
So in that tradition ones, youknow, if you lose a child
particularly a male childbecause patriarchal society.
And then even more extreme yourfirst male child.
Right.
So that.
The child born after that isyeah, basically like, like on
loan from the Lord.
Like you were prayed and Godhasn't decided whether you can
keep it or not.
(39:41):
So for the first year, you'renot allowed to.
Bye at anything, no clothing.
It has to be like used clothingfrom somebody else and all this
stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah, that was the whole.
Scott (39:50):
Yeah, I remember that.
That idea.
And then I came up in some, somesomething I was reading about,
you know, I was reading aboutmy.
Cultural background.
And there's a very similar thingin the Southern Italian.
Religious, you know, sort ofsense of like there's for the
first.
Like nine months or somethingyou have to live as if the child
is not yours, you're taking careof it for somebody else.
(40:13):
Huge thing.
And the.
Yeah.
So it's an sense.
Of.
You know, All right.
We'll give you, we'll give it toyou, but you know, We have to
see if you can keep it.
If you deserve to keep thischild.
As yours.
a.m. (40:27):
I mean, you know, human beings are just so insanely
resilient.
If you think about how that typeof mythology goes up, it's
actually a psychologicalprotective device for the
parents because.
Yeah.
Parents who have children whodie young, have a higher
probability of.
Other children dying youngbecause of some genetic reason
or whatever.
And so this kind of mythologygoes up and it provides a
(40:50):
certain kind of psychologicalprophylactic for the parent.
Where it's like, don't get tooattached, but for cosmic
reasons, right?
So that if that second childalso passes, which again is
going to be a higher probabilitythan, you know, for if your
first one didn't pass.
It's less of a blow.
Right.
I'd imagine something like thatis why all stories like this
(41:11):
build up for practical reasons.
Yeah.
And so, and I'm sure, you know,rural India.
yeah.
A lot of infant deaths.
Yeah.
So,
Scott (41:19):
yeah, from, you know, What we think of as preventable
right now, but the timerdevastate.
a.m. (41:25):
Complications of poverty, man.
Aye.
Aye.
Aye.
Quote, unquote, enjoy thatphrase.
I think it underscores.
A reality.
We still allow to exist in theworld.
Unnecessary.
It's a fucking miracle we're allhere.
Yeah.
the rabbit.
Can we just create our own DAErabbit.
Jeez a rabbit.
If you're looking for one.
Lately, we just like together.
(41:46):
But like, What would that mean?
That's the one.
That's the question.
I don't, I I've been toyingwith, I actually looked at
vendors.
And actually sort of talkingabout the idea of a unicorn as a
mascot in the context of whatunicorn means in the tech world
and the entrepreneurship world.
I did.
Do you have a unicorn is likelythat one in a million.
You know, thing that is, youknow, But the idea here would
(42:08):
be.
Everyone's got an inner unicornand the work here is to find
your unicorn.
That's one unique thing thatonly can come from you.
And that's your unicorn.
Right.
The record is not the one in amillion.
The unicorn is the one thing inme that unique expression.
So I thought that would be kindof cool little, you know,
unicorn plushies that are.
(42:28):
Call get shoulder tattoos.
Okay.
It's temporary tent.
Kyley (42:31):
But I think that's that's.
I mean, that is something.
And there's two things I want toconnect to.
I don't know about it.
I'm going to work.
The conversation that you saidabout being able to basically
claim.
This next loss.
To God.
Is is an interesting approach tothis conversation as well.
That could be beneficial or notbeneficial, where like, if it's
bigger than you, it's no longerabout you, which then it can
(42:54):
kind of Sue some of this throughperiods of difficulty.
And I think we can use thatsometimes as a potential tool.
And I've used it in the pastwhere like, it's not about like
this moment in time.
It's about these moments intime.
As a way to reconnect with thatkind of.
That why?
Why have we keep moving forward?
And I, I, I do continue to askthat question, like in, within
(43:15):
the org, like how do we continueto make space for both students
and staff?
So.
B bring, bring their unicornaspect out in this thing.
Yeah.
I wonder about it sometimes.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Scott (43:26):
I'm here viewing things externally.
I'm not the.
Involved directly in a lot ofwhat's happening.
And I see.
Still, you know, the sort of.
Older.
You know, Montessori.
Ethic, you know kids learnthrough play and pleasure.
They're playing with somethingthey're discovering something
and there's a sort of forwardmomentum that comes from that.
(43:46):
That is less of.
What's the next thing it's moreabout, this is great.
And then discover something newand that kind of stuff.
So.
Did it, you know, the unicornhorns starts to pop out a little
bit.
Kyley (43:58):
Yeah.
And there is an interestingwhere we're actually talking
about on debrief yesterday,where one of our educators is
like, Hey, so what I noticedabout the content was as a
student started kind of goingout and finding other
information.
On making video games and I waslike, perfect.
Like that's, that's the turningpoint and kind of that thing
(44:19):
where it's gone from this, thestuff I'm consuming to like i"m
now, starting to question thewonder.
And like, Yeah.
That's cool.
That's the spark.
That's the, yeah.
That's like, oh, cool.
So you have a question that youdon't know how to answer right
now, and you have somethinginside your game that you're
making in that you don't knowwhat to do with, and we can't
give it to you.
First step.
It's baby steps.
Scott (44:39):
You probably remember from engineering school, it's
like, no, you don't do that.
There's the method.
Which method are you going?
Kyley (44:46):
That's exactly what it is.
It is.
It is the method.
This is, this is the formula youuse to figure out this question.
Do you think you put these twoformulistic.
Figure out this question.
I don't know how to close thisconversation out.
We put a little hat on it.
a.m. (45:01):
But, yeah, we've thrown around the word suicide a dozen
times in this conversation, butI think.
You know, we shouldn't post thethe hotline because you just,
you don't know who's listeningand what state they're in and we
we are, we are not cliniciansand we are not any of that, but
if your local.
And you're confused.
Assuming you're safe.
You feel free to come and hangout.
(45:22):
And we're we're place.
You can come hang out if you'reconfused.
Make Tea.
We'll make TEA we've got Tea.
We'll hang out.
Yeah.
We will vet you though to makesure you're safe for our, for
our broader community.
But that's it safe is the onlycriteria.
Other than that all are welcome.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.