Breaking Free: Life After Mormonism and Embracing Christ

This episode of the Abundant Life podcast delves into the profound journey of Cody Bentley, a former member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) who has transitioned to a born-again Christian. The discussion, guided by hosts Saso and Ben, emphasizes the contrast between the doctrines of Mormonism and traditional Christianity, particularly focusing on the notion of grace. Cody recounts his upbringing within the LDS faith, highlighting a performance-based relationship with God that left him feeling spiritually malnourished. He shares his struggles with addiction and the burdens of guilt that permeated his life as he sought fulfillment through works rather than faith. The podcast explores the pivotal moment when Cody discovered the freedom and assurance found in a relationship with Jesus Christ, which allowed him to break free from the cycles of shame and guilt that had characterized his previous religious experience. Through heartfelt dialogue, the hosts and Cody reflect on the transformative power of grace and the importance of a genuine connection with Jesus, contrasting it with the institutional emphasis found in the LDS Church.

The episode presents a candid exploration of Cody's spiritual metamorphosis, detailing how he transitioned from a life steeped in the doctrines of Mormonism to embracing the teachings of Christianity. Central to this transformation is the realization that salvation is not contingent upon human efforts but is a gift of grace received through faith in Jesus Christ. Cody articulates the stark differences in his understanding of God, moving from a performance-driven faith to one marked by unconditional love and acceptance. The discussion touches on the challenges faced by those leaving the LDS Church, where adherence to doctrines can lead to a fear of losing community and identity. Cody's journey serves as a beacon of hope for others who may find themselves questioning their faith and seeking a deeper, more fulfilling relationship with God. The hosts encourage listeners to reflect on their own beliefs and consider the liberating message of the Gospel, which offers assurance and peace through faith alone.

Takeaways:

• The journey from Mormonism to Christianity encompasses profound spiritual transformations and a discovery of grace that is no found in any other religion.
• Key differences exist between the concepts of salvation in Mormonism and traditional Christianity, particularly regarding grace and works.
• Post-Mormon life often entails navigating relationships with family and friends who remain within the LDS faith, presenting unique challenges.
• Experiencing a genuine relationship with Jesus can lead to significant personal growth and healing, as evidenced by Cody's transformation.
• The importance of scripture, particularly the Bible, is emphasized as a source of truth and assurance for believers transitioning from Mormonism.
• Understanding the differences in the definitions of familiar terms in both faiths is crucial for meaningful dialogue and connection.

Links referenced in this episode:

• Abundant Life Podcast
• Lamp Light Ministries
• Stay in the Fight
• Gospel Talks

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Foreign podcast, bringing youencouragement and challenging believers
to spiritual change and growthby applying biblical principles to
everyday life.
And now your hosts, SassoMendez and Ben Arellano.
Welcome, everybody, to theAbundant Life podcast.

(00:22):
This is episode number 67, andI'm here with my good friend and
faithful servant in the faith,Sasso Mendez.
Hey, good evening, Ben.
What's up, brother?
How you doing?
I think we're doing wellbecause we've two podcasts, like,
pretty close together.
Yeah, we're almost onschedule, bro.
Like, it just doesn't normally happen.
Like.
No, it's not.
We've not been on schedulesince like 2021.

(00:42):
Since we started.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
We were like, ah, we're gung ho.
It's like January 2nd, beingat the gym.
And then the 6th of January, you're.
Like, yeah, New Year'sresolution out the window.
Let's watch tv.
And today, well, we've got aspecial guest with us today.
We have Cody.
Cody, would you introduce yourself?
Yeah.
Thanks for having me here.
I've been looking forward to this.

(01:03):
I'm Cody Bentley.
I've been in Phoenix, Arizonafor past 15 years.
I work in tax for PricewaterhouseCoopers.
Okay.
And performance coach.
And performance coaching.
I'm trying to get into moreperformance coaching, but putting
that on the side a little bitand focusing on just my job in tax

(01:25):
right now, but planning tobuild it up in the future with the
performance coaching.
I saw you have Tacoma been.
I don't know.
Ben saw that.
Yeah.
Like Tacomas.
Yeah, it's.
I call it the.
The show pony.
Sometimes my friends make funof me because I don't really take
it off roading.
It's the.
The show pony.
Why, why would you, though?
You know what I mean?
You know, I.

(01:45):
If I was 16 again, I wouldlove to drive that thing all over
the mountainside and.
But you know, it's just more.
But you buy an 88 for that.
You know what I mean?
Right?
Yeah.
I mean, it's like new shoes inschool, nobody, like, I never ran
a race with the new shoes.
I take them off and put my oldshoes on.
And then when I went intoclass, I put the new shoes back.
I would never.
But I played basketball inthese shoes, though.
You know I'm saying, like, I mean.

(02:06):
In the gym or outside on the back?
In the gym.
I know I wouldn't wear myself.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You were on the pavement.
You take it easy.
Yeah.
Like, Pastor, he takes hisbrand new Bronco and it's all dirty.
And like, that's like a fiftythousand dollar vehicle.
Like, what are you doing?
We did take the Jeep up in themountains and that was fun.
I mean, it, you know, wasn'tnecessarily a super expensive vehicle,

(02:27):
but it wasn't either cheapeither and, but it was nice looking.
But we did, we did take it upin the hills, but you know.
The trees scratch it if youget too, like.
Yeah, Arizona print striping.
Yeah, we, but we didn't, wedidn't take it to that extreme, you
know, we took it in themountains and we got it dirty, muddy.
That's okay.
I just wouldn't want to get itdented or scratched.
But it was black too, so yougot to watch out, be careful, you

(02:49):
know, because black scratches.
You notice everything on black.
Yeah.
So.
But yeah, Tacoma, man, I did see.
The Tacoma out there.
That's my.
One of my dream, dreamvehicles or, or tundra.
I do like the tundras.
I mean, you're gonna waste alot more gas, but.
And I don't really have needfor a truck.
I just like them.
Like, I think they're just cool.
Like.
Yeah, I think it's just coolto have like a, like a V8, you know,

(03:09):
lifted.
You know, they have like bigma babe magnet cars.
That's like, help me move.
Magnet car is a truck, right?
Oh, you got a truck, right?
Can, can you help me move?
It's July or it's August.
Like, like, are we friends?
Oh, we're friends on Facebook.
Like.
Oh, yeah, that.
That says a lot.
We're not really friends.
We're just.
Yeah, yeah.

(03:29):
So.
So, Cody, what do you, youknow, what's your poison?
What do you like to eat, man?
Like, where do you, where doyou go?
Like, what's, what's your,what's your go to when you're, you
know, you're gonna go out, eat.
All right.
So Crazy Mike's wings.
You guys been there?
Yeah, I've seen it.
I've not been there.
You've been there.
That's a Pastor Georgeendorsement right there.
It is, it is.
I.
I got onto it before I metPastor George, so.

(03:49):
Okay, they got the spicyfries, the spicy garlic parmesan
wings, the dry rub.
It's pretty good.
It's 20 bucks, though, for 12 wings.
It's pretty pricey.
It is pricey.
I got a second loan when Iwent there, but I heard the second
line of credit.
I heard the wings are pretty meaty.
Like, I heard they're beefy.
Like, you know what I'm saying?
Like, you Go to B Dubsometimes and chicken.
The chickens don't have leg day.
You know, it's just they're a little.

(04:10):
Like day about chest.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I don't know.
I'm gonna have to try it out.
I've not.
I think they are a bit meatierand I think they do their homemade
sauces right, like.
They do.
They do.
And yeah, the spices, the rubs.
Georgia said they use tallow.
So does B Dubs, you know.
True, true.
But yeah, I think that's.
I like to support smallbusiness too, you know, on a Sunday

(04:31):
night, if Rebecca's not withme, I will go to crazy Mike's.
It's on the way home.
They put a little bit moresauce than I like.
You know, I like a little dry.
You want to get the dry rub?
The dry rub?
Yeah, There you go.
But it's good.
Do they make them extra crispy?
They said they did, but.
Are they breaded or are they.
No, straight up.
Just like beat ups.
Okay, okay.
Just like beat up.

(04:52):
Just straight up.
Yeah.
Nice.
So that's your favorite placeto go?
You know, we went to BuffaloWild Wings too, not too long ago,
and it was Pastor George andmy friends Chris and Jeff.
I've seen him there a couple times.
And they mentioned how oftenyou had been sasso with at Buffalo
Wildling.
The waitress.
The waitress actually cameover to our table and repeated us

(05:12):
your order.
Wow.
She said he usually gets this.
Sometimes once in a whilehe'll substitute out this side.
But it's pretty muchtraditionally this order.
And she just repeated it.
That's Chelsea.
Chelsea.
That's Chelsea.
So now she's got a shout outon the podcast.
Now we have reason to tellher, hey, you need to listen to the
podcast.
I've invited her to Freedomthe last.
And so, yeah, so episode 67,that's, you know, Chelsea.

(05:34):
The funny thing is that shehas my number memorized and so if
I go there with the party,I'll text her.
And then she did send me apicture of her brand new niece.
So, I mean, I mean, we're like homies.
We're not Facebook friendsyet, but we're moving towards that.
You know what I mean?
Working towards that.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I mean, I wentthere, I think Monday already.
I figured you'd already beenthere two, three times.

(05:55):
I told Cody, go about fourtimes a week.
I just been there once this week.
We're gonna go tonight andwe're gonna probably go tomorrow.
Yes, at least three in there.
And crazy.
I think of crazy.
Mike's.
Is it crazy?
Mike's.
Right.
Yeah.
If they had, like.
They have that Kool Aid.
I love iced tea.
So if they had iced tea, Imight sit down there.
But BDubs is close to work,and, I mean, our waitress is phenomenal.

(06:16):
And so 13 bucks lunch special,you can't beat it.
And we're working on the othertwo waitresses.
I mean, they're.
They're just right behindChelsea doing pretty.
Pretty decent.
I mean, there was one beforeChelsea that was pretty good.
She left, and then she brought me.
Two teas to start, which, youknow, I fell in love with her for
that.
For that reason.
Well, I mean, on her last day,on the way out, she just comped our

(06:36):
meal.
Yeah, she didn't.
We didn't even pay.
No, we didn't.
And I felt.
I mean, we still tipped her.
I think we still tipped her.
We've tipped her well.
Yeah.
Yeah, we gave her the tip forwhat we would pay in the food.
Yeah, we.
We sent her on her way very well.
So.
Yeah, but.
So I don't go.
Pastor George doesn't go asoften as I do, but he does go there.
And I.
I was there, and I saw himcome in and he did the all you can
eat wings about a week and ahalf ago, and he put out.

(06:58):
He put down 20.
Wow.
20 wings.
I mean, I think I've put down15 is probably the most I've put
down.
And it's because Diane and Iboth ordered.
We ordered, I think, 20 wings,and she, you know, smashed five.
That's out of five.
She tapped out of five.
And, wow, disappointing.
And I did 15, but I also didthe salad, too, so.
Man, I was.
I'm usually stuffed after 10in a salad, so I had 15 in the salad.

(07:20):
I was pretty.
That's pretty stuff.
So I don't think I could.
The.
The.
The all you can eat is justnot worth it to me.
It's not.
I'm not going to get my.
The bang for you.
It's all you can eat tonight.
You know what I mean?
I know, but I'm not gonna.
20.
20.
20 wings would be.
I'd definitely tap out.
I probably have no salad, andit's 25 bucks.
I don't think I.
I'd make out.
Well, I could, but should I?

(07:41):
That's the thing, right?
Could and should are two verystrong words.
Because could I.
Yes, I could, but probably not.
Well, I mean, if you don't get fries.
You know what I mean?
If I close my eyes, I can See,my wife like looking at me like,
you shouldn't do it.
I'm not going to tell you whatto do, but I can't.

(08:02):
I can't support this.
That's what she would say.
So.
So anything else you like?
Like, what did you have fordinner tonight?
So I had a tuna fish sandwichtonight, mixed in some relish with
it and there you go.
Okay.
Okay.
You know what?
I went to five guys, right?
And they had a.
They have a protein styleburger with lettuce and they do mayo,

(08:25):
ketchup and relish.
Delicious spread.
Mayo, ketchup and relish.
Yeah, they put it together.
You know, it's expensive, right?
Yeah.
So I can go to.
To in and out, get a proteinstyle, seven bucks, you know, three
by three, three cheeses, threemeats there they have double with
bacon and it was like 13 bucks.
But it was significantlybetter than in n out.

(08:45):
It was an upgrade.
Yeah, it was.
It was.
I wanted to stay in.
I didn't want to go out.
You know what I mean?
In and out.
It's just, it's.
It's good.
Yeah, it's a good burger.
Yeah, it's good.
Five guys was another level.
Good.
Wow.
Yeah.
No fries.
No fries.
The fries started like five bucks.
Yeah, they're all a cart, right?
Is that where they have therosemary fries or am I thinking.

(09:06):
I think so.
Yeah.
It's five guys, right?
Is that how much of fries?
Five?
Five.
Oh, no, just the burger, please.
That's six.
I'm.
I'm good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think they give you like 10bucks, but then they give you like
a whole bag and then they justdump all kind of fries there.
I think one time I went there,I got the fries, the burger and the
drink, and it was like 20 someducks before by dynamics.

(09:28):
So it was in the real days.
So it was very expensive.
Yeah.
My word.
I haven't been to five guysand it's been a minute.
I haven't been there.
It's like the massage for, forthat price we did.
There was a.
There's a burger joint we hitthe other day.
I can't even remember the name of.
Is.
Yeah, I can't remember the name.
We were.
Must have not been good.
We were downtown.
It was pretty good.

(09:48):
It was okay.
I don't know that I.
It sounds like it's okaybecause you don't remember.
Is it Smash Burger?
Is that.
No, that's not a.
That's not a place.
Smashburger is okay.
It's good.
It's Smash it has its.
It has.
Dan, do you remember what theburger place was called?
All right, yeah.
In the.
In the day and age of Google,we still don't know.
I could probably.
Where was it at?
It was downtown.
It was like McDowell and 7th.

(10:12):
7Th Avenue.
7Th Ave.
Maybe.
Where Payways at.
And they have a bunch ofrestaurants, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think.
I think that's.
I think that's smash.
Is it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe it is.
I know that area fairly well.
It's a burger, Joe.
I mean, I know where all therestaurants are, so.
It was pricey, though.
I mean, I think Diana and I ate.
It was about 30 bucks, so, Imean, that was pretty pricey.
And it was okay.

(10:32):
It was.
The fries were actually pretty good.
I like the fries.
Not somewhere I'd want to goall the time, though, so.
And five guys is delicious.
I'll tell you what, though.
I'll be honest.
The.
The burger at B Dubs, it'spretty good.
Like, I like it better thanthe Chili's Burger.
I know I'm gonna hurt yourfeelings, bro, but I think I like
it better than the TexasRoadhouse burger if we could add

(10:54):
bacon to it, which I think you can.
Oh, dude, you can add bacon to anything.
Yes.
It's just.
Unless you're at in and out.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
That's right.
There's no bacon there.
That's where they.
They're missing it.
Yeah.
Maybe they're Jewish or something.
I don't know.
I don't want to.
It could be.
I don't know.
But they have Bible verse ontheir cups.
They do have Bible verses.
Yeah.
And on the bottom of thefries, right?

(11:14):
I think.
Yeah, yeah.
If I tell them, like, you guysshould put bacon, they're like, hey,
did you see the 60 cars in thedrive thru?
Yeah.
I think we're doing okay.
Like, okay, I'm sorry.
I'll stay in my lane.
I'll shut up over here.
They know their business model.
I'll go to fries and get theOscar Mayer already cooked bacon.
I'll add it, but.
Yeah, so you, like.
You said you liked B Doesbetter than Texas Roadhouse Burgers.

(11:37):
You know, the.
The Texas Roadhouse burger is bigger.
They give you a bigger chunkof meat.
And the bacon is pretty good.
The bacon is really good.
But the taste.
I don't know.
The.
Whatever they put on theburger at B Dubs.
And it's greasy, too.
That's what I like about it, too.
Like, the bun's greasy,everything's greasy.
Like, it's just.
It's an unhealthy burger, butit's good.
It's definitely better than Chili's.

(11:57):
Definitely better than Chili's.
Have you tried Chili's?
New one, the Quarter Pounder?
I have.
Not that.
That is phenomenal.
Is it.
Is it a single or double meat?
So double Quarter Pounder or single?
I think it's single.
Okay.
But it's very good.
Really?
You know when they smash itand it crisped up the patty?
Oh, yeah, that's the best.
The texture.
That's why I used to likeFreddy's, but Freddy's.
I don't know.
During Biodynomics, they.

(12:17):
Their patties got reallysmall, but they.
But they smash them.
Get the crispy edges to, like Freddy's.
I lift up my shirt and said,this is what I want my patty to look
like.
Right.
I don't.
I don't want whatever this isright here.
Like, come on.
Give me a break.
And Freddy's is kind of dirty.
Think so.
It's like the AMC of movies.
Like, it's always.

(12:38):
Like, do you guys ever mop inthis place?
You know?
True.
This is terrible.
That's how I felt when we wentto slim pickings or slim chickens
or whatever.
Whatever it's called.
Is it dirty?
It was super greasy.
I was sliding, bro.
I was like, ice skating.
It was bad.
The electric slide, you know,like, practically pee.
You know, you probably could, man.
All right, so.
And just.

(12:59):
We'll move on here.
But you said you did live.
You do live by the loving hut.
Yes.
There's nothing loving about that.
No, it's if.
If you're not vegetarian.
And even if you are, I mean, Ithink it's just.
Did you try it?
I did.
My ex wife, she was vegetarianfor a little while, and I would go
with her sometimes, but it'sjust like cold, wet noodles.

(13:21):
A lot of their dishes are justnot appetizing.
No, it's still in business.
It is.
I don't know how they'rehanging on.
Wow.
That's real love right there.
Yeah.
Well, that's what they shouldname B dubs.
Love dubs.
Yeah, It's a good idea.
I mean, I've been married 25years, but if she ever said, let's
go to the loving hut, I'mlike, don't do it.

(13:42):
No, don't do it.
There's nothing loving about that.
I couldn't do it.
I couldn't do it.
No, no.
It almost feels sinful to doit, bro.
Yeah.
I mean, run.
We're Under Grace, we movedon, so.
Yeah, no, thanks.
Hard pass.
Hard pass.
All right, well, let's getinto some content here.
Before we get into thecontent, Visit us at AbundantLife

(14:04):
FM.
You'll get a.
All of our show notes,especially for episode 67, and follow
us on Instagram or Facebook.
And we're starting to put outsome cool reels now, bro.
I found a cool app.
You did an awesome job onthose reels.
It was AI that did that.
Doesn't matter.
And it's good.
It's like they, like.
I don't know, like, YouTubeloved it.
Like, YouTube was, like,making some of these videos kind
of viral.

(14:24):
It was kind of cool.
And Instagram didn't give meso much love, but.
No, they do not.
But they came out phenomenal, dude.
And it's cool because it doesall the.
The subtitles and everything.
Like, it, like, I.
I literally just click anddrag the video into the thing and
it does everything like, It's.
It's cool.
20 bucks a month.
Easy, easy.
I get.
We gotta get some sponsors.
I told Nicole I gotta.
We gotta get some moresponsors for that 20 bucks a month.

(14:46):
Kiko.
Kiko, you listening?
My buddy.
Hook me up, brother.
All right, well, let's get in here.
So today we're gonna betalking with Cody and Cody.
Cody's gonna.
This is a really.
I've been really excited aboutthis episode, and actually this morning
I had a chance to listen toCody on another separate podcast
called Gospel Talks.
This is Pastor George's gocheck that one podcast.

(15:07):
So, yeah, if you.
If you get a chance, check outGospel Talks.
It's really good.
And so Cody, Cody hastransitioned from Mormon, being a
Mormon to being a born again Christian.
And so this episode is goingto be talking about his journey and
everything that culminatedwith it.
I mean, there's a lot to it.
There's a lot to unpack with this.

(15:27):
So very excited about this episode.
And I think Sasso is going tokick us off with our key verses.
And from Galatians, I thinkit's galatians 1:6:8 or something
like that.
Yes, sir.
Galatians 1:6:8.
The Bible says, I marvel thatyou are so soon removed from him
that called you into the graceof Christ.
Unto another gospel, which isnot another, but there be some that
trouble you and would pervertthe gospel of Christ.

(15:50):
But though we are an angelfrom heaven, preach any other gospel
unto you than that which wehave preached unto you, let him be
accursed.
Right?
And so, you know, one of thethings that I heard this morning
in, in the podcast that youwere on with Pastor George is that
there's a lot of, a lot ofterms in Mormonism and in Christianity
that are very similar and,but, but the definitions are different.

(16:14):
They're definitely differentand something that we're probably
going to get into here shortly.
But first I just want to startoff, you know, can you share a little
bit about your, maybe your upbringing?
I know I think you hadmentioned in the podcast you were,
you were born into the, intothe Mormon faith.
And just what was yourunderstanding of God, Jesus and salvation
and that sort of thing?
Yeah, sure.

(16:34):
So, yeah, I was born into theChurch of Jesus Christ of Latter
Day Saints.
I remember my 88 years old.
I was born, I was baptizedinto the church.
My grandparents, I remember,gave me my first set of scriptures,
the Book of Mormon and the Bible.
Okay.
And from there I just did thethings that were expected to be done

(16:58):
in the church, all the wayfrom serving a mission to I went
to the BYU schools.
And as far as how I understoodmy relationship with Jesus Christ,
it was something that I don'tthink I could really articulate at
the time with as far as howthat relationship played out in terms

(17:21):
of my own fulfillment from within.
But now I would describe it as.
It always felt like I waslacking something where in Second
Nephi there's.
It talks about in the Book ofMormon how you are saved by grace
after all you can do.
And that's different from whatit says in Second or in Ephesians

(17:44):
chapter two.
Right.
You are saved by gracethrough, Through Jesus, through faith.
Through faith.
And it is a gift of God.
It's a gift of God.
It doesn't come from anywhere else.
And I did not receive it likethat in the Mormon Church.
It did not come to me in theform of a gift.
It came to me as something Icontinually had to work towards.

(18:07):
Right.
And so growing up, somethingelse that inhibited my connection
to God in a performance basedworks, based religion was.
I had a pornography addiction.
And so that was very shamingfor me to never really understand
what repentance was in terms of.

(18:29):
In the Mormon Church, they sayyou need to confess and forsake your
sins.
And when they say forsake,they mean it's only true repentance
if you never do that sin again.
And so that's, that'sdifferent from how the Bible would
expounds on, on what it meansto forsake.
That's more of a turning yourheart towards God and letting go

(18:54):
of holding on to the sin.
Not that you won't ever sinagain, but that you're turning your
heart towards God.
And that.
That's something that was loston me in the LDS faith because I
wasn't forsaking the sin.
I kept returning to it andtherefore it must have meant that
it wasn't true repentance.

(19:14):
And what did that mean about me?
It meant that I wasn't worthy.
It meant that I wascontinually striving towards what
seemed like to me as thisperformance that just never was enough.
And so yeah, it just got.
Got me locked in a shame cycle.
So you had mentioned that you got.
It was a Book of Mormon and a Bible.

(19:36):
Yeah, that was the bi.
The Bible.
Is that, was that a.
Like, what version was that?
Is that like a specific Mormonversion of the Bible?
Was it.
Because I.
I'm not quite sure how that,how that works.
I know that Mormons read theBible, but I'm not sure what, what
version is that?
Yep.
So it's the, it's the KingJames Version with annotations and,
and just edits from JosephSmith that he did.

(19:59):
Oh, okay.
So it's actually edited.
It is there, there's some.
There's usually.
Wow.
Notations at the bottom whenit is edited and it shows which it.
It's largely the King James Version.
It's really.
It's very close.
Okay.
The edits aren't that.
There's.
There's not that many edits to it.

(20:19):
But the claim that the.
The Mormon Church makes, Ithink it's the.
There's 13 articles of faithin the LDS Church and the 8th article
of faith says that we believe.
We.
We accept the Bible as theword of God as far as it was correctly
translated and that it lendsitself to.

(20:42):
Or at least for me, I'll speakin first person.
I never was sure how much Icould trust the Bible because I don't
know.
I don't know which part.
They didn't conclusively ordefinitively state which parts were
correctly translated.
They kind of just left it outthere for I don't know.
I like how much I can trust this.
But you know, the Book ofMormon, let's, let's read that.

(21:05):
Because Joseph Smith said thisis the most correct book of any book
on earth.
And so when Joseph.
Everyone in the church knowsthat statement.
If you're been in the churchlong enough.
And so the priority is readingthe Book of Mormon, the pri.
It's that the Bible is asecond class citizen to the.

(21:25):
The Book of Mormon in, in thechurch, with that said, they encourage
you to, to read the, theBible, but it always seemed like
to me like the directive wasread the Book of Mormon first and,
and then read the Bible.
Okay.
Always prioritize the Bible.
So you know, I, again withthat statement in the article of
faith number eight there, asfar as it was correctly translated

(21:50):
that, that just, I, I justwasn't able to trust the Bible because
I, I just wanted to be a goodmember of the Mormon Church.
But then drawing towards theBible, which is something I, I wanted
to do more over the years as Iwas a member, I just kind of seemed
in a position of conflict.
Yeah.
So you, you would say the Bookof Mormon takes precedent over the

(22:13):
Bible?
Absolutely.
And, and I think any, anyfaithful adherent in the LDS Church
would say the same thingbecause I have a.
Buddy that you know, is afriend at work and in his door he
does have the Book of Mormon,but I don't ever see it moved from
the door.
But I'm sure he reads it andI, I was just curious because he
would like quote it sometimesor say something.

(22:35):
I don't know.
Where did they get the namesof the books?
Is it named after a prophet or.
There's a prophet in the Bookof Mormon named Mormon and he was
the, the reasoning behind itbeing named the Book of Mormon.
The, which I've heard over theyears in the church is that he abridged
the different books thatsupposedly came from multiple authors.

(22:56):
Right.
And so since he was the onethat abridged, got dubbed the, the
Book of Mormon.
But you know, I always, I kindof proposed out there, why, why don't
they just call it AnotherTestament of Jesus Christ, which
is the subtitle.
You know, it kind of justseems a little off that you would
have it labeled the Book ofMormon when LDS people, they don't

(23:18):
worship Mormon.
And, but yet his name's on thebook and also that goes into that
statue Moroni, the goldenplated statue Moroni on top of temples.
I also find that misleading interms of Mormons don't worship the
angel Moroni at all, but yetthey have the, the statute of him.

(23:39):
So Mormons wouldn't look atthat as idolatry and they don't worship
him in an idolatrous way.
But you know, why, why isn'tit a statue of Jesus Christ if it's
a statute of anybody?
And you know, there's notreally an answer to that.
I'm Rebecca Mendez withLamplight Ministries, where I serve

(23:59):
the Lord by loving others.
Through biblical counselingand workshops.
Every day we're reminded ofour fallen world through disappointment,
grief, fear, despair.
We need a Savior.
And in Jesus Christ we havethat Savior.
He came to rescue us, offeringHis Spirit to guide us and His Word

(24:20):
to comfort, correct and lead us.
If you're a follower ofChrist, eager to grow in Him, I'd
be honored to walk thisjourney with you through one on one
biblical counseling.
Together we'll explore God'sword, find encouragement, and pursue
faithful obedience to our Savior.
Please Visit me at lamplightministries.com to book your appointment

(24:42):
today.
So, so tell us a little bitabout your, your conversion.
I know that's pretty recentand I, again, I heard you, I heard
the story this morning on the,on the podcast with Pastor George.
But, but tell our listenerswhat, how, what did that look like?
Yeah, so I, I just hadquestions mounting over the years

(25:03):
as far as my involvement withthe church and if I felt like I was
in alignment with my valuesand my beliefs and where my heart
was at the time by continuingin the faith.
And it eventually got to thepoint where I just said, you know
what, I'm not really movinganywhere in my spirituality.

(25:24):
I've just been the sameperson, it feels like, for years,
and I just wasn't seeing any growth.
And so I think that was a bigpart of what eventually got me to
find enough courage to takethat first step outside of the church.
And that's a big deal for theLDS members as it is, I'm sure with

(25:45):
a lot of other faiths where,you know, that was the religion of
my family, a lot of myfriends, lds growing up, the identity
is so much wrapped aroundbeing lds.
And, but you know, over theyears, my, my family, one by one,
they had left the church orjust stopped, stopped practicing

(26:08):
religion altogether.
And so I would say I didn'thave as much of a tie towards the
LDS Church as some othersmight have because, you know, take
the family in Utah, forexample, who, the, the man of the
family has all his businesswrapped up and his LDS contacts and,
and all his friends.

(26:29):
You know, it could be an evenharder transition out of the religion
for people like that.
So for me, I feel like I wasfortunate in that I was able to more
objectively kind of evaluatemy situation based on how I felt
with my relationship with Godwithout a lot of the extra community

(26:52):
aspects kind of pulling meback in.
And so that's not to say Ididn't have a lot of friends still
in the church.
I did and I still do.
But the.
The main thing was I wanted.
I wanted to move in an upward direction.
And I think part of me insidewas just yearning for more.

(27:14):
And so I, I took that chance.
And I think November 2023,when I went to Northwest Valley Baptist
for the first time and starteddoing the exchange Bible study with
George, Pastor George.
And it was almost immediately I.
I started experiencing growth,radical growth and very transformational

(27:37):
type of growth where the, theplain reading of the Bible just spoke
to me in such a healing andwholesome way.
It.
I.
I just kept turning back to itand looked forward to each.
We.
George and I, we visited atStarbucks every Thursday, and he

(27:57):
was very generous with his time.
I think we spent, on average,at least an hour and a half, sometimes
two hours on those Thursdays.
Now, Mormons don't drink coffee.
So you went to a coffee shop?
Yeah, yeah.
So.
Pastor George, come on, man.
I know, bro.
Come on, Jewish guy.
To eat a pork sandwich.
That's right.
That's right.

(28:18):
He was doing.
He was drinking the coffeeright in front of me and.
Wow.
I, you know, I just barely hadmy first cup of coffee.
I would say maybe four months ago.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
First time in my life, really.
And, you know, I, I think it'sa little bit of an acquired taste.
It definitely.
I'm still learning how to do that.

(28:38):
Trying to teach my wife.
My wife still does not drink.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, yeah, so just, you know,I, I'm just exploring kind of what.
What tastes good there.
Seeing the right balance withthe half and half.
Right there.
You go heavy on that.
Right.
So, yeah, like I said, it was.

(29:00):
It was a great experience to,for me to that honeymoon phase of
being introduced to, to theBible in a way that, you know, getting
into the, The Hebrew and the,The Greek and, And really like, peeling
back.
What is it saying here?
What does this verb mean?
What's the etymology here?
You know, that was so helpfulin, in me uncovering what is God's

(29:24):
word.
What does he want?
Not.
Not something that'ssubjective or based on how somebody's
feeling.
That's so prevalent in theMormon Church.
How does it make you feel thatthat's just constantly being brought
up?
Is that kind of.
I know I've heard of burningin the bosom.
Is that burning?
Is that kind of what you'retalking about?
And, and that's kind of likethe test of truth.

(29:46):
Okay.
If you feel good about itthrough what they.
They would say is promptingsfrom the Holy Spirit, you got your
answer.
But, you know, basing Your,Your search of truth based off of
how you're feeling.
Dangerous.
Yeah, that is dangerous.
And I don't think LDS membersknow how dangerous that is.

(30:08):
I didn't even realize howdangerous it was.
It just.
That was what I knew.
That's what, that's what thestandard or the test of truth was
presented to me as.
And this is how God wants youto do it.
And they, they compare that to.
I think it's in James.
If, If God.

(30:28):
God will.
If you want to know the answerabout something, then pray about
it, and God will.
I'm totally butchering thescripture, so I don't even want to
try quoting it.
But they say it says it rightthere in the Bible, and they kind
of stretch it to their own interpretation.
And that's where, you know,feelings change.

(30:48):
How I felt 10 years ago aboutcertain things is different how I
feel now.
And using that as the compassfor finding God's truth is very sketchy.
It's given me differentanswers over my life.
And anchoring to the Bible asthe anchor of truth, that doesn't

(31:11):
change.
Those words are preserved overall the years it's been in place,
and that's where I can find mysecurity and assurance of salvation
on a whole nother level Inever knew was possible previously.
Yeah.
I mean, because it seems like,you know, it's kind of like a moving

(31:31):
target.
Right?
You're.
You don't know.
Like you said, it's.
If it's subjective and youjust don't quite know, like, what's.
What is the truth?
If you don't know what truthis, like, what are you striving for?
What's the point?
Like, and our God is truth.
I mean, he's.
He's defined as truth.
He's not giving us the truth.
He is the truth.
He's the truth the way the life.

(31:52):
And, and so I think it's.
It's more comforting and it'smore secure.
Right.
Because you're, you're, you'reon a solid rock.
You're.
You're on.
You're built.
You're building your faith onthe truth.
Well, I think things havechanged too.
Right.
In the, in the Mormon Church,where I don't think they drank soda
and then that came into playand, like, he'll tell me things.

(32:12):
Like, back in the day,there's, like, they were really frowned
upon birth control, and thenthey've kind of eased up on that.
And it seems like as oursociety progresses in the wrong way
as far as values concerned,like, they have to be appeasing to
that crowd where I grew up inChristianity my whole life.

(32:35):
And it's the same.
Yeah.
The verses didn't change.
The.
I mean, the church may havechanged as far as, like, you should
wear a suit and things like that.
Dress code.
Yeah.
But on the major things,there's no.
Well, yeah, things that have changed.
It's the same.
It's like.
It's even like, you know,recently the.
The Pope of the CatholicChurch passed away.

(32:55):
And from what I understand, this.
This particular Pope thatpassed away was a little more progressive,
a little more liberal.
Then.
Then previous.
Really progressive.
Yeah.
Than previous popes.
And it's just like.
It's a moving target, man.
Like, why, if you're changingthe rules all the time.
And that's what I love aboutthe Scripture, that's what I love
about our God.
Because he doesn't change.
He's immutable.
He doesn't change.
He's not one God.
Speaks.
Yeah.

(33:15):
He's not one God.
Someday and the next day adifferent God that you're like, you're,
you know, walking on hot coals.
You don't know what to do.
Like walking on eggshells.
Like, am I messing up today?
Or what's the rule today?
Or are you changing today?
He doesn't change.
I don't think, really, to knowGod is to know that he's not out
there looking to strike you down.
Yeah.
That he's merciful.
He's.
And because he's loving.

(33:37):
You go through consequences of sin.
Sure.
And it's because he loves you.
It's not because he.
I'm gonna give it to you today.
Yeah.
Like, your parents had a badday at work and you messed up.
Like, I'm gonna get you.
He's waiting with the belt.
Waiting with them, justwarming up in the bullpen, you know,
their arm and getting thepaddle ready.
And I think that's how weperceive God.

(33:57):
But that's not who he is if wetruly know Him.
Right.
No.
Yeah.
And I.
You think of love, of mushy.
Mushy.
But love is sometimes, youknow, chastisement, because you don't
want that.
You know, if you have kids,you know, you're like, your central
nervous system, right.
Is it's pain because your bodyloves you.
And like, hey, don't put yourhand in the fire.

(34:18):
It hurts.
Oh, it hurts me.
Well.
Well, it's like, don't gorunning down the mountain, because
when you fall, it hurts.
Like.
Okay, okay.
I'm sorry.
I walk.
I walk I walk.
So, yeah, I think, you know,that's Easter egg.
Yeah, Easter egg.
I will say, you know, LDSmembers do perceive God as a very
loving God, but to your point,there have been a lot of changes
in the church, and it has goneback and forth on different issues.

(34:41):
It has not stayed consistent.
Sometimes it changes to whatis politically expedient or, you
know, depending on thepolitical landscape of the day, that
the church has changed.
You know, with polygamy, the.
The US Government was going toshut it down, and then all of a sudden,
the prophet got a revelationthat, oh, God doesn't want us to

(35:02):
practice this anymore.
And it's the timing of God, ofwhat they say.
But, you know, it looksawfully like a coincidence with the
timing of the US Governmentalmost shutting it down.
And Mormons do drink soda.
I will say, okay, they do.
They.
And people think it's acaffeine thing, but they say it's
not.

(35:22):
So they can drink soda, theycan't drink coffee.
But, you know, you can knockback five Red Bulls and not have
to worry about that being.
But did they ever ban that atsome point when you couldn't drink
soda?
I've never heard that.
Okay.
The most recent fake news on my.
Part, the most recent thing Iheard they changed was with the garments
that LDS members wear.

(35:44):
That for women, it was alwaysthese long sleeves.
And it was always talked aboutin Sunday school settings that that
was for.
For modesty purposes.
And now all of a sudden,they've nixed the sleeves, and everyone's
saying, well, what about allthose modesty discussions that we
had?
Wasn't this what God wanted usto wear these for purposes of modesty?

(36:06):
And now the church is saying,oh, no, no, it never was about modesty.
And so it's just little.
Little things like that backand forth that leave members kind
of just always.
Wondering, is the prophet likethe Pope?
I would say he's not revered as.
As much as the Pope, is he.
The.
The.
The LDS prophet is consideredto have a direct line to God and

(36:29):
to speak on behalf of allworld matters, you know, with him
receiving revelation for notjust himself, but for everybody,
specifically the church.
And so he.
He is revered.
He is in some ways praised,but I wouldn't say worshiped.

(36:51):
He's not a deity.
He's not a deity.
Yeah, okay.
Because I.
I mean, he had said.
He went.
They had a conference at BYUor the church there, and he was saying,
the prophet told us this, likea revelation.
And I'm like, so there's aChanges from year to year.
Like, yeah, like, we have atheme right.
Of the year, but it's a chargefrom the Bible.
It's not like Pastor Shaw, youknow, had buffalo wild wings and

(37:13):
the chicken wings, told him,like, hey, you know, your women don't
have to wear skirts.
They can wear pants to church.
I mean, that just seems reallyweird to me.
Or odd.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So.
So you, you were doing theexchange with Pastor George.
Now, was it through theexchange that you became a point
again believer?
Is that where you got saved?
I think that was a big factorof the, the watering and the nurturing,

(37:38):
the planting that happenedwith me, and just God being able
to use George as the vessel hewas in that process.
I would say on March 15, 2024,it was a really special day when
my wife and my.
My daughter, she's 8 years oldnow, she was probably 7 at the time.
We were vacationing inPrescott, Arizona at an Airbnb, and

(38:02):
it was just such a beautifulday filled with just wonderful blessings
and just a lot of connectionwith my family and just God opening
up my eyes to what he was doing.
He's.
He was doing with me in mylife and just so much healing with.
Within my family and, and just the.

(38:23):
I.
I just felt so much just therealization of how Jesus died for
my sins.
He.
He finished the work on the cross.
He.
He finished the work and, andhe is enough.
There's nothing I need to doto be saved other than believe in
Jesus Christ that He is Lordand acknowledge that he is risen

(38:47):
from the dead.
And not just acknowledge that,but to trust and depend on him to
incorporate that into my lifeand how I live and turn towards God
with my heart and knowing thatthat's it.
There's no other qualifiers tothat statement in, in believing in
Jesus Christ and that I haveconfidence and assurance in my.

(39:13):
Of my salvation, and I neverhad that previously.
And that's made such a difference.
Knowing that God can meet mewhere I'm at with grace and that
no matter where I'm at, nomatter, you know, what.
What may come, he did.
He did the work.
It's finished.

(39:33):
And my belief in him securesthat salvation.
Yeah, I guess it's kind ofdifficult if you're, if you're trying
to obtain salvation throughgrace, after all you can do, because
how much is enough?
Like, how do you know you'vedone enough?
You know, and so what.
At what point?
You know, where's the line?
Yeah, where's the line?
Like, it's.
I don't know, I.

(39:53):
I guess I would struggle withnot knowing.
I mean, I'll be honest, evenas a Christian, I've had doubts of
my salvation.
I've had, you know, bits oftime where I've just doubted my salvation.
And I think every Christiangoes through that.
But at the end of the day, Iknow that Jesus died for my sin.
When he said it is finished,it was finished.
And when he rose from thedead, I mean that, that was it.

(40:15):
Like there was nothing else tobe done.
Like it was it.
And, and I put my faith in that.
I put all my eggs in that basket.
But yeah, I think it would bedifficult for me to know how good,
how much is enough.
And I think, I think any worksbased religion, if there's a religion
that you're in that is worksbased, which, anything outside of
being a born again believerChristian is a works based religion.

(40:36):
How much is enough?
Like how, how much do you haveto do?
I mean, I know there's, youknow, there's even the extreme Muslims
that will die for their faithand they'll kamikaze a jet into a
twin tower.
But how, I mean, was that enough?
You know, I think that's wherewe get the second part of that verse
where he says, not a worksthat any man should boast.
Because I mean, if you have ateam of people right at work, typically

(40:59):
there's like one or two topperformers, a couple people that
are medium performers, andthen you have one or two bottom performers
and they could potentially allget paid the same.
But the people that are topperformers, they do more than the
people that are bottom performers.
I think that's where thatverse comes from because it's eliminating
works by saying, well, whileBen did 60%, I did 61%.

(41:24):
So I mean, I need a bigger mansion.
I did more for my salvationthan he did for his.
And God says, nope, we're all level.
Your righteousness is filthy rags.
It means nothing.
Yeah, and it's dependent on me.
Because if it dependent onyou, it's not good enough.
Right.
We all fall short.
And I think that latter partof that versus not it works is because

(41:46):
we would right any.
I mean we, we know people thatI make the best pancakes or I do
the best of this or I do thebest of that.
And yeah, and they one up youon everything.
And it's like, I've tastedyour pancakes.
They're not that great.
Okay.
Just for the record, they're okay.
Yeah.
And I think that's whathappens when, you know, if we could
Work towards it.
And I think my.

(42:07):
My friend, and I'm concernedfor him, and I think he's a morally
decent person.
I mean, he'll let a swear wordpass here and there.
So does that, you know, drawthe line down of where he should
be?
Where maybe another personwould not say that.
And it's exhausting to.

(42:28):
To live like that.
And right now we can just restin the finished work of Jesus Christ.
It doesn't give us an excusebecause he said, shall we continue
in sin?
That grace may abound, God forbid.
But we don't have that hangingover our head, right where it's a
wrath of God.
If I have a bad couple days, it's.
It's.
Yeah, you know, come ask forFirst John 1:9.

(42:49):
Right.
If we confess our sins, thatdoor is always open for us.
And I think when you talkedabout, like, you know, you were living
in that fear or that cycle ofshame or whatever that is, that he
doesn't remember one sin fromthe other.
And he even told us right ashe walked this earth, you are to
forgive your brother 70 times 7.

(43:10):
So even if he does the sameoffense to you, you know, what is
God, he has no limit, right?
When he died on the cross,like all my sins were future.
And that's what I say, thathe's the only relationship.
Like, if your wife knew what ascumbag you would be at times, she
would not marry you.
She would not sign up for that.
I know my wife would not.

(43:31):
She would have signed thatprenup so fast.
But God knew all that.
And he said, I still going toenter into this relationship because
I love you beyond what youcould ever imagine.
And it's.
There's no conditions attached.
It's you.
It's a free gift.
And all you have to do isaccept it.
And we're just so used to, youknow, well, Cody bought me lunch,

(43:51):
so I gotta.
Next time we go, I gotta buyhim lunch because we feel that obligation.
Or you might say, yeah, salsa,better buy me lunch.
I took care of him, you know,and he ate a lot, and he even got
extra cheese on his burger.
But God, God does not likethat, right?
And he wants us to serve himand do things for him out of love,
not out of obligation.
And there's a big differencewhen you start living for God out

(44:13):
of love and not because I feelobligated to do our comp.
I mean, mean, we should becompounded with love, right?
You said that so well, if thatcould really be understood in the.
The lds Church, what thatlooks like, you know, obligation
versus it.
Just being born within you asa born again Christian.
Yeah.
I think there would be a massexodus out of the LDS Church.

(44:34):
But how do you, how do youarticulate that?
How do you describe that to,to somebody of a faith that's only
known one way?
Yeah, I don't know how to do it.
And I've been on both sides now.
I've been in the church andI've been out of it and I'm just
trying to play around with,hey, what's, what's the best way
to approach this where I'm notgoing to come across as offensive

(44:54):
or, you know, not so muchworried about offending people because.
Right.
What, what does Paul say inGalatians that, you know, am I here
to please people or am I hereto please God?
If I was here to pleasepeople, then I wouldn't be a servant
of Christ.
Christ.
Yeah.
And so I, it's not aboutoffending, but the prejudice that,
that's what I'm trying to bevery careful with because it's very

(45:16):
easy, you know, for to stepinto prejudice and judgment and see,
you know, make a, a blanket statement.
Like I, I even heard growingup in Texas one time, all Mormons
are going to hell.
Well, that sounds like judgment.
Right.
And that, that sounds like cross.
We don't know that.
That sounds like crossing the line.
There's only one judge.
It's, it's God.

(45:36):
He knows what our salvation is.
And so, you know, LDS peopleare very sensitive to those kinds
of judgments.
And, and anything that evencould be perceived as a judgment,
even if it's just a Christiantalking from a place of conviction,
you know, that, that could bevery offensive to a Mormon.

(45:58):
And so if the, if the point isto have productive dialogue to where
we're building bridges andwitnessing in an effective way where
Christ can use us as thevessels we hope to be, then it's
a delicate balance.
It's a delicate balance to strike.
But like you were talkingabout, if we can just articulate

(46:20):
in a way where it could beunderstood by members in the Mormon
Church of what does arelationship with Jesus Christ look
like out of obligation versusit just being born naturally within
us as those new creatures withnew desires, new motives that, that
are, that just come with beingborn again, I mean, that would sell
itself.
But how do you, how do youdescribe that?

(46:42):
Yeah.
How do you fully leave, toexperience that right?
To leave all that behind andsay, I wanna, I want that.
I mean, that's there's a lotof consequences on this earth where
you might lose your family,you might lose your friends, but
you, you go to the truth.
I mean, I, I think it's for him.

(47:02):
I'm, you know, I'm, he's my friend.
He's probably my best friendat work, you know, as they would
say, whatever.
And I'm just concerned, youknow, because he is a decent human
being and I just like, man,but this, this is the truth.
Like, you would, you wouldlove it, but you got to come over.
And I think in the same breathhe thinks the same thing of me.

(47:23):
Like, oh, he's a good friendand he needs to, like, he's trying
to get me to come and thingslike that because he cares about
me in his own way.
But it's tough.
I get it.
Yeah.
Like it's.
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(48:06):
Stay in the Fight is a greatway to keep God in your focus and
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And I think that's probablythe hardest thing, right?
Because I bet you, I would bewilling to bet there's a lot of Mormons
that are maybe in a place kindof like you.
They were maybe curious ormaybe even just not quite satisfied

(48:32):
or they're just wonderinglike, is this real or is this, you
know, why am I not feelinglike this confirmation from the Holy
Spirit or why.
Why am I not growing in this faith?
Like, I think there's probablyother people that are other LDS members
that are just like that.
And, and, but maybe there's afear because of the consequences

(48:54):
of what if, if, ifChristianity is correct and they
move over there, there'sconsequences, right?
I mean, you're, you couldpotentially use friends, family.
I mean.
Right?
I mean you probably couldspeak better to this than, than I
would because you probably know.
But what would you say to that?
Like, is it.
Do you think that's a, that'sa big hindrance?
I think the bigger hindrancewould be just not knowing the difference,

(49:18):
not knowing that somethingelse out there exists okay.
And not being able to compareand contrast in your mind, what does
it.
Look?
I, I think a lot of members inthe, the Mormon Church do have a
fear like you're talkingabout, but I think it's, it, It's
a lot of times more at thesubconscious level.
Okay.
Of.
Okay.
I'm not consciously aware ofwhat's keeping me in a state where

(49:43):
I'm not feeling like I'm, I'mgetting that growth that I want.
And part of me feelsmalnourished, but I think that's
more some of the, thegroanings of the soul that aren't
always verbalized.
At least it was for me.
And I've seen it with othermembers too.
Friends that I've had personalconversations with that.

(50:05):
It's just not always at thatsurface level.
Level where it can, you canput your finger on it.
Yeah.
Because there's just so muchelse going on in terms of the, the
belief system in the MormonChurch and how that, how members
gravitate towards that.
And I think the church is verygood at inoculating its own members

(50:29):
against the, the argumentsthat Christians sometimes present.
Sure.
And, hey, you guys might bemissing the mark when it comes to
grace and, and how someone issaved and, you know, you might be
a workspace organization here.
Would you like to look at.
And there's lots of argumentsagainst that to counter it.

(50:50):
There's lots of really smartpeople in the LDS Church, apologists,
just like in a lot of other religions.
And.
But it is mental gymnastics.
It was for me with trying tomake everything fit.
And I, I think I, I did havefear of leaving the church in terms

(51:12):
of just not knowing what, whatthe something else looked like.
Yeah.
You know, I, When I took thatfirst chance of going to a Protestant
Christian church, NorthwestState Valley Baptist, that first
Sunday, I was thinking in my,my mind, I said, you know, if I find
even more grievances with thisplace than I had with the Mormon

(51:33):
Church, I'm.
I'm probably just going to bedone with religion altogether.
And I really had that in mymind because I'm just.
I was really already burnt outwith religion at that point with.
In terms of thatmalnourishment I was experiencing
in the LDS Church, thatspiritual malnourishment where I
was very grateful that thatwasn't my experience.

(51:56):
But I've seen so many timeswhen people have left the LDS Church
just from a spiritualmalnourishment place, and they're
so burnt out with the conceptof religion, they don't even have
anything to do with God fromthat point forward.
There's a lot of members thatleave and turn agnostic or atheist.

(52:17):
I see that a lot.
And so I have, I have peopleapproaching me members in the church
and outside of the church,some, a lot of times saying it's
just unusual that somebodyleaves the Mormon church and they're,
they're joining anotherProtestant Christian church.
And how is that like for you?
And like what, you're not bitter?
Why are you not bitter aboutand just ranting about the LDS Church

(52:41):
and all the grievances youhave with it?
And I just, I didn't gothrough that phase.
Yeah, I, you know, God in, inhis graciousness with me and my path
that he set for me, he allowedme to immediately substitute the
LDS Church with somethingthat, what I, what I see now and,

(53:02):
and believe as the true gospelof Jesus Christ.
The plain reading of the Bible.
What does it say there?
It's, it's not complicated.
It, it says it repeatedly bymultiple authors.
It's been validated as ahistorical document that, that has
other external sources that itlinks to, to validate it.
And that's just not the casewith the Book of Mormon.

(53:25):
Right.
And so yeah, I didn't gothrough the bitterness phase.
I, I have, I, I know people inthe church that feel like they were
duped when they leave the church.
And what that looks likethough to an LDS member who's, who's
faithful to the LDS Church is,oh, that, that person, they just
weren't righteous enough orspiritual enough and they're just

(53:49):
bitter about life and they'rejust a bitter person and, and they
couldn't cut it, you know, with.
And so it, it does paint avery bad picture in, in LDS members
minds when, when someoneleaves the church that way.
So I see both sides of it.
Yeah, I see that.
The, the resentment.
I understand the resentment.
It's just something I neverreally gravitated towards when I

(54:12):
left the church.
I think part of it too isbecause if, I think if you convert
to a true gospel, there'sfulfillment there.
That hole that you felt.
Right.
Because it fell short of thetrue gospel.
And I think once you'refulfilled, there's really no reason
for me to attack or to beresentful because I found what I
was looking for all along.

(54:34):
And I think if you're, if youdon't convert and you just leave,
then you look back like ateenager that never grows up.
Right.
I think when you get to be inyour 30s or 40s or hopefully your
20s, you understand your parents.
Not that they were perfect,but you get why they said no or why
they didn't allow certain things.
And some people never maturebeyond that.

(54:54):
They grow up with bitternesstowards their parents.
And they're like, I shouldhave been.
Especially when you, if yougrew up in a Mormon home or even
Christian home, they're very strict.
It's not like you were allowedto do things other kids were doing.
And I think at times as ateenager you become resentful and
then you grow up, you're like,oh, yeah, that, that does make sense.
Like, well, now I'm gratefulyou said no to a lot of things that

(55:14):
I wanted to do.
Yeah.
And I think because you matureto that and I think with religion
you mature to that next level.
Like, yeah, I could begrievances, but really that's what
they believe.
But man, God's filled me withso much that there is no room for
that.
Right.
Because if I do, then I'msinning because I'm resenting, I'm

(55:35):
holding bitterness.
And I think there's arighteous anger for like, why didn't
you tell me the truth?
And because they don't haveit, they don't know it.
Yeah.
So I think it's just adifferent perspective because you
are full of that whole that,that God filled hole that everyone
has until we accept him andthen he, he makes us complete and
he becomes enough for us.
Yes.
Yeah.
So you, you mentioned that youcame to Northwest Valley Baptist

(55:58):
Church and this is.
Prior to you, you didn't havean invitation or it was in Pastor
George.
So I'm just curious, like,what prompted you to, to come that
day?
Like, I mean, I mean I was God moving.
I know God was drawing you.
I.
But what, I'm just, how didthat, how did that go?
Like.
Yeah, so basically I, I wantedto find another religion that had

(56:20):
the biggest de.
Emphasis on the institutionitself and the greatest emphasis
on the direct relationshipwith Jesus Christ.
Okay.
Because the LDS Church hassuch a great emphasis on the institution.
I think most religions do.
Right?
I think most religions areabout the, the church.
The, you know.
Yes.
Not.
Yeah, yeah, right, right.

(56:40):
Yeah.
The Mormon Church certainlyisn't unique.
The Catholic Church too.
Right.
Yeah.
And so what popped up were,after I did just some, some research
was Baptist and Presbyterian.
Those are the two that Ilanded on that fit that, that qualifier
that I was looking for.
And really the, the differencebetween going with a Baptist versus

(57:03):
Presbyterian came down to.
Okay, which one seems likethey're following The Bible as, as
closely as possible.
And, you know, the sprinklingon the bap, the, with the water for
the baptism withPresbyterians, that didn't seem like
it.
It was biblical.
It, it was by immersion thatthe baptism, Baptism.
Baptisms were done in the Bible.

(57:24):
So that, that really was the,the thought process there.
And I said, okay, I'll try outa Baptist church.
And yeah, from, from there it was.
So did you Google it or howdid you find Northwest?
I Googled it.
I looked at the Google ratings.
Oh, wow.
There's some bad ones in there.
Well, no, it was like 4.8.

(57:44):
It was like, it was pretty high.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think we have somefake news stuff in there.
Yeah, maybe it's been knockeda little bit lately, but yeah, when
I was looking at it, 100, it was.
Yeah, the Google ratings arepart of what drew me in.
I said, you know, a lot ofpeople are having good experiences
here.
I'll give it a shot.
That's cool.
That's.
That's awesome.

(58:05):
So we can start closing uphere, but I want to give you the
opportunity to just express,you know, you're talking to a Mormon
right now, and what would yousay to a Mormon right now?
Like, I mean, you've had thistremendous transformation.
I mean, and, you know, you'regrowing by leaps and bounds, and

(58:25):
you have this specialrelationship with Jesus and it's
real.
Like, it's, it's not like piein the sky and you're trying to search
for it and you're not tryingto do your best until you hit grace.
And, you know, what would yousay to a Mormon, you know, and, and
I love your, your, your heartbecause you, you, you aren't bitter
about any of it.
You're, you know, you're,you're loving still on your Mormon

(58:46):
friends.
And I think that's how itought to be because of, just like
you said, the, the, theplaying field is level at the bottom
of the cross.
It's level for all of us.
And we're all there.
We're all sinners, and we, andwe have the opportunity to be saved
by grace.
But what would you say to a Mormon?
I would say the biggest thingthat I probably could say in terms
of convincing a Mormon that Ifound a more fulfilling way, a closer

(59:11):
relationship with Jesus Christis just by sharing what it looked
like for me before and what itlooks like for me now.
And I can say just withsharing a story and experience about
my own life.
I was divorced in 2020 when Iwas still in the church and with
not having much of arelationship with God, as much as

(59:33):
I strive to have that relationship.
And I did really try.
I prayed and I readscriptures, Book of Mormon, Bible,
I went to church, I hadvarious callings.
So it wasn't a lack of effort.
I just did not have the.
So with that divorce, I endedup spiraling downward in a very negative

(59:54):
downward cycle.
You know, with beingpromiscuous, one night stands for
the first time in my life.
I had never done that before,you know, with the, the dating apps
and all of that.
It was very different from thevery conservative life I had previously,
but just different things likethat marijuana sort of started smoking

(01:00:16):
that and doing the edibles andjust getting further and further
away from God and evenquestioning God if he was good or
if he's real or, you know, isJesus Christ even.
Was he real?
Is this Bible fabricated?
Is, you know, all religion fabricated?

(01:00:36):
And I was going to a dark place.
And you know, I'm comparingthat to now and, and I am still having,
I'm on my second marriageright now.
And ever since I was saved andborn again, there are.

(01:00:58):
It is totally different interms of how I'm approaching things.
I still have struggles thatI'm going through and God is still
cleaning house within me rightnow and chastising me.
And that has been a verychallenging experience for me to
go through and have the Lordset me straight with these new desires

(01:01:19):
and new motivations.
But instead of it being thisinsurmountable task that I can never
achieve, you know, God'sgiving me that assurance that I'm,
that He's with me and all Ineed to do is just keep, keep believing
in Jesus Christ that He's theanswer and depend on him and trust
him with.
And so I share this because,you know, where I'm at right now

(01:01:44):
in my second marriage, withthings still being put in order in
my, my life and in myhousehold, my, my wife and I, we
actually separated four months ago.
And you know, if this was theold Cody, the old me, I would have
done the same thing before.
I would have, you know,engaged in the promiscuous sexual

(01:02:06):
activity again.
And, and I don't.
Marijuana or maybe I wouldhave tried another drug by now.
I'm not doing that now.
I'm at home and I'm gratefuland I'm having conversations with
God daily knowing that I don'tknow if me and my wife are gonna
reconcile, but that's notleading me to these states of extreme

(01:02:30):
anxiety.
God has Replaced those, that,that, those feelings of anxiety with
his love and the knowledgethat he's there and he's watching
over me and I have theassurance of my salvation and what's
happening in my life.
Even though I'm still going tobe going through challenges, I know
I'm walking with God.

(01:02:50):
And this is totally different.
The old me, I would havespiraled into the same, those same
behaviors.
I'm not, I'm not strugglingwith marijuana anymore.
I'm not struggling withwanting to see other women to fill
those voids or, you know, dothose same distractions and escapes
that I was doing before.

(01:03:10):
I, I can turn to the Bibleand, and pray to God and have that
fill me in ways that it's,it's so nourishing and just so healing
to have every single day withthe knowledge that God is with me,
that he is real, that Jesus isLord, that he is risen, and that

(01:03:31):
there, I, I don't, I don'tneed anything else.
I don't need to show up withanything other than my faith in Him.
That's it.
Amen.
And it's been sotransformative for me with that knowledge
and just comparing andcontrasting that time of when my
first marriage failed to wheremy second marriage is still in a

(01:03:52):
very real state of repairright now without, you know, any
promise of it going one way or another.
It's, it's a.
That state of uncertaintyreally doesn't seem like a state
of uncertainty because I have,I have God with me.
Amen.
Amen.
I mean, I think that's kindof, you know, what, we kind of preach

(01:04:13):
it ftl, God's enough and heshould be right.
He should be all that you need.
I mean, he should satisfy you.
And that's, that's how youachieve contentment, you know?
Yeah.
Because, I mean, tomorrownight, right, that's we're going
to talk about.
But I think when you have anaddiction or, you know, you're.
We're attracted by sin becausesin is fun for a season.
The Bible tells us that it's alie of Satan.

(01:04:33):
And I think, well, I know allreligion that is not in faith in
him alone is a lie of Satan.
It's a deception.
And I think, you know,Catholics, Mormons, they get close
to the truth, but it's not the truth.
And just as they would say,right, if you had 1% arsenic, would
you eat that chicken wing?
Yeah, like, of course not,because they'll kill me.

(01:04:55):
But that's what Satan does.
He pollutes the waters and itSounds good.
It looks good.
I'm with the culture of peoplethat are my friends.
They're friendly.
Our tradition.
Our tradition.
Like, my parents believe this,you know, Hispanics, Catholic, Catholicism.
Right.
It's a.
Yeah.
And then you learn, like, that's.
That's not the truth.
And.
Yeah.
And that's Adam and Eve.
He told them, your eyes willbe open.

(01:05:17):
And they were, but not howthey thought they were.
Right.
And so that's what he does.
He pollutes that, you know,other religions with the truth of
things that sound good, but alittle bit of, you know, not truth
is not true.
If.
If it was all just lies, it'dbe a lot easier to discern.
Yeah.
Right.
But that.
That mixture of truth andlies, that's.

(01:05:38):
Yeah, that's hard.
And I think we had Tony herelast time, and he said, I am committed
to.
This is real in my life and AAand all those things.
Rehab centers.
That wasn't it.
I can.
This is like, this is real to me.
I think that's what you're saying.
Like, this is different thanyou would have been if you were still

(01:05:59):
relying on.
Because it's on you.
Right.
And when it's on him, it's alot easier than, say, God, I can
do this.
You know, it's not in my power.
You know, I'm a sinner.
I need your help.
And this picture right herewhere he sticks out his hand and
he's like, I'm here to help you.
And that's like, wow.
Yeah.
Mind blowing.
Like, praise God that you're.

(01:06:20):
You're here to help me.
I'm not in this alone.
And you, like, in all ways.
Right?
He was tempted, just like man,yet without sin.
Like, he's acquainted with grief.
He's acquainted with our infirmities.
Yeah.
He walked the walk.
And that's just like, we dohave a perfect example.
And not Pastor Shaw.
Right.
I've seen him get mad or whatever.
He's not perfect because he'sa man.

(01:06:41):
And me as well.
And.
But we do have a standard thatwe can look to.
Like, wow.
That's who I aspire to beevery day.
Amen.
Amen to that.
Cody, I want to thank you somuch for coming on the show.
Thank you for yourtransparency, for your insights and.
And man, what a.
What a testimony, man, that.
That transformed lives.
I love that.
I mean, I think we mentionedthat in the last podcast with Tony.

(01:07:04):
Just.
Just seeing that transformlife is just amazing, you know, from.
You know, from being dead to,I mean, live in Christ and it's just
behold, behold, behold.
Things become new.
Yeah, things become new.
So thank you again for, forjoining us and yeah, hope to have
you maybe again on the showanother time.
And, and yeah, so anyway, Iwould love to just ask our, our listeners

(01:07:29):
out there if this episode hasbeen a blessing to you.
I'd ask that you subscribe tothe show again.
Visit us at AbundantLife FM,check us out on Instagram and Facebook
and we will see you in thenext episode.
And you can donate there as well.
There's a donate button.
There's a big green donatebutton on the, on the opponent life.
20 bucks for those reels.
Come on.
Yep.
Thank you guys for listening.

(01:07:50):
We'll see you next time.
All right, bye for now.
Thank you for listening to theAbundant Life podcast.
We pray you were blessed bytoday's episode.
Please visit us online atAbundant Life fm.
Until next time.
May God bless you.

(01:08:12):
Sa.