On this episode of ACADEMY ANONYMOUS:
- "Conclave" Costume Designer FINALLY breaks into Costume Designers Guild - but will it be enough to overcome the "Contemporary Curse"
- Jacqueline West falls short at BAFTA as "Dune, Part 2" loses ground
- "Wicked" the perfect recipe for Costume & Production Design crossover nods
- Robert Eggers and Linda Muir welcomed into BAFTA & CDG - "Nosferatu" looking good to double-up on Costumes & Makeup
- After FINALLY returning with a nod for last year's "Napoleon," can the Costume Designer of "Gladiator 2" go back-to-back?
- Arianne Phillips' BAFTA-"bounce-back" a promising sign for "A Complete Unknown" after guild and Makeup snub.
- Can Tim Burton's Makeup effects give "Beetlejuice Beetlejuice" an edge in the Makeup category
- As actress campaign stumbles, can "Maria" still reap nods Below-The-Line
- "The Substance" looking like the favorite for Makeup but is the team too unfamiliar for Academy voters
- "Emilia Perez" the rare international title to make Makeup guild - a positive sign or a red-herring
- In Makeup, where performance matters, at least one nod featuring the work of "Man of a Thousand Faces" Sebastian Stan looks promising
- All signs point to Makeup voters omitting any work modeled after real-life people. Will voters really go full-genre this year?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jules (00:14):
hey, welcome back to academy.
Anonymous, I'm jules and thisis joseph, all right.
Joseph (00:19):
Well, let's jump into costume design, which is sort of
the sister category of bothproduction design and makeup.
So voters there are sort oflooking at both of those
categories to help inform thedecisions, along with the
decisions that you know, theguilds, the guilds, their sister
organizations, have made in thesame branches right.
(00:41):
So, um, let's start talkingabout the films that have sort
of coalesced into a consensus.
This, like production design,has somewhat calcified maybe.
Jules (00:50):
But I do feel there are less sure things, less sure
things here In this categorythat people are perceiving as
sure things.
I think there's room here tosurprise one or two.
Joseph (01:00):
All right.
Well, let's start off with acouple of films that seem like
locks.
Wicked seems like a lock, yeahdefinitely.
And it would be the secondnomination for the costume
designer and that helps.
Jules (01:10):
Yeah definitely.
Joseph (01:12):
Let's talk about Dune Part 2, which is kind of
interesting right.
Jules (01:17):
It is interesting because you would think that that's a
lock.
However, I was really surprisedby the BAFTA snub and I wonder
if there's something to that.
You know, for some reason Ican't help but recall the snub
that happened at BAFTA last yearwith screenplay, when Cause of
the Flower Moon missedscreenplay and that was kind of
(01:39):
shocking.
That was kind of shocking andthat repeated at the Oscars, and
so a part of me is wondering isthere something occurring here?
Why, why the hell would it getsnubbed Right From costume
design?
Joseph (01:50):
You're right, I hadn't thought about that, but that's
very interesting.
I think that, overall, cominginto the Guilds month, the month
where all or the majority ofthe Guilds were revealed there
was much more anticipation forDune II to perform better all
over the place, and so the BAFTAis no exception, and it might
be a symptom of studios likeWarner Brothers needing to
(02:13):
revise whatever strategy they'recoming up with in terms of
dividing films into parts oneand parts two and, depending on
whatever haul, or lack thereof,that Warner Brothers is able to
accomplish with Dune II on Oscarmorning, if it's on the low end
, they're definitely going tohave to rethink what their
strategy is for Academy Awards,because you got to imagine that
(02:38):
to split this movie in two,beyond making money, you would
hope that it would carry somemomentum into possibly being a
film that wins several AcademyAwards, and right now it feels
like it's going to be lucky tomatch the number of nominations
that Dune Part 1 got andcertainly going to have a
difficult time matching thosewins.
So you can only I think ifyou're makers or campaigners of
(03:00):
Dune, you're going to have tosit after Oscar nomination
morning, depending on what theoutcome is, and really consider
did we shoot ourself in the foothere by not making one longer
film that possibly could haveone best picture over a coda or
over power of the dog?
Right and I think that itshould be a possibly it could be
a worrying sign for somethinglike wicked again, part one
(03:23):
right which has a part twocoming at some point right?
Jules (03:25):
100, I think you're.
I think you're right.
But what?
Why do you think?
You think it got snubbed?
Because it came out too earlyand other titles are sort of
competing for attention and itsort of fell by the wayside.
Or you think there's somethingmore particular, distinct at
work?
Joseph (03:42):
well, I think that one of the biggest things is just
the idea of for Dune 2, everysingle craft category that is
going to make the decision tonominate it again is going to
have to consider do I nominatethe same caliber of work again?
You know I nominated JacquelineWest for the costumes, the
(04:03):
excellent costumes, in part one.
Did the costumes change a lotbetween part one and?
Jules (04:08):
part two there are certainly differences.
Joseph (04:09):
There are new characters a new world, but is there
enough there for me to benominating this twice?
And I think that's a questionthat is going to be posed not
just on voters of the costumedesigners branches all of the
branches, whether it'scinematographers and editors, so
you might just end up seeingnominations for dune 2 for those
(04:32):
categories, those craftcategories, those below those
below the line categories formembers and branches that
thought there was somethingeither really new or just
diehard fans of what was therein part one right and I'm afraid
that in terms of costume, theyjust were not big fans of it
this time or they didn't seeenough substantial change for
(04:53):
them to nominate it again Now.
I will say that Jacqueline Westisn't necessarily a perennial
nominee at BAFTA.
You know, she's someone who didnot get nominated.
Example for the revenant atbafta and she did pull off that
nomination and I think that partof it is that, unfortunately,
there's this element of costumedesign that tends to favor this
(05:16):
concept.
I I would, I would assume, ofeither fantasy period, but
there's also this, I think,underlying bias about dressing
women, and sometimes jacquelinewest can work in these very
masculine environments if youthink?
Of something like the revenantand the work is very detailed,
but because, there aren't, youknow, lush female characters
(05:39):
that you're dressing.
Think about the work that jennybeaven does on something like
cruella, or even something like,you know, mad max, which again
isn't necessarily very feminine.
But there's this dystopianelement right that's very.
You know it's very attentioncalling attention calling
fantasy, and so because therevenant is more, I think,
(06:00):
catered around sort of thismasculine space I think
unfortunately it failed to getthat baptist nomination and if
you think about something likedune 2, is there a lot of what
some people would perceive, youknow, as the traditional, you
know, female costume fantasysilhouette no, not really this
happens to be the category whereyou're going to nominate a lot
(06:23):
of disney princess outfits andhow you sort of realize them,
and there's a nominee this yearin the work of wicked right and
the work that goes into galindaright and that's going to be an
element that really calls theirattention right but sort of
these other types of costumescan sometimes sort of be
overshadowed by those, and so itmight be an element of that,
but I don't think that she's asure thing to show up right, so
(06:45):
exactly.
Jules (06:45):
So I don't consider it a sure thing.
Um, I would say the only twofilms in this category that feel
pretty secure to me are wicked,and especially nasferatu, which
differs from other categorieslike makeup, which will get into
a second, and production design.
I feel pretty sure it's goingto get nominated here in costume
design.
(07:06):
The costume work there reallystands out.
It'll be her first nomination,even though she works with
robert eckers often, um, and Ithink that, uh, that's a film
that they're going to respond tothis branch.
Um, the costume work is verydetailed.
Um, that fits the piece really,really beautifully.
So I find those to be the twolocks.
Joseph (07:27):
Everyone else is sort of you know, not sure she's very
interesting, the costumedesigner linda muir for nas, for
rot too, in the sense thatshe's been working for a long
while and she just as you said,accomplished that guild
nomination and I think that'squite a feat for her and I think
it is foreshadowing thatnomination at the guilds and
that nomination at BAFTA thatthey're going to embrace her
(07:49):
work for the first time at theacademy right so I agree with
you.
I think that's in in very youknow, very likely territory,
even though, again, she'scertainly not any type of
perennial favorite.
It would be her firstnomination, right.
The other individual that a lotof people are pegging for this
award in the consensus more orless, is someone like Liza
Kristol for a conclave, and it'ssort of interesting right.
(08:12):
Number one because, well, lizaKristol is a former nominee and
she was nominated for anonymousat the Academy.
But when she got thatnomination at the Academy, she
failed to get the nominationwith her own guild and that's
kind of strange.
Right, so sort of the Academywas ahead of her in that sense.
But another reason why peopleare pegging her for that
(08:33):
nomination is because a lot ofpeople had her down to get that
nomination in 2022 with her workon All Quiet on the Western
Front.
They had figured that becauseshe was a former nominee, she
would be able to get thatnomination for all quiet again
another very masculine space,right where she was not
nominated for the guild yetagain.
Um, she was nominated at baftaand so people had pegged her to
(08:56):
get that nomination, but itfailed to get that nomination,
possibly because some of thedesigners sort of thought that
her work sort of melded sofluidly into the production
design that maybe there was onlyneed to nominate the production
design and the cinematographyand the costumes could wait, but
technically you would thinkthat a film that gets
cinematography, production,design, makeup would certainly
(09:17):
lead into costume.
At the same time, you have tokeep into account that of all
those teams, she's the only onewith a nomination at that point.
And when she gets thatnomination, she still doesn't
even have her first guildnomination.
Jules (09:30):
Right right.
Joseph (09:31):
And so something going against this piece is that it is
a contemporary piece, which isagain something that costume
designers do not rush tonominate.
You have to think of thingslike again, la La Land with Mary
Sophries, the Devil.
The devil wears prada, which isabout fashion, and so that's
something working againstconclave and costume design as
well as production design.
Jules (09:50):
Right also, as you were saying the point about, they're
not a lot of women in that filmand so it's a very masculine
space another masculine space, alot of dressing men right in
particular which is sort ofinteresting, right, because it's
a very masculine space, butit's also a very intricately
fashion space.
Joseph (10:07):
And you can, you know, make of that whatever you will,
but it's kind of interesting tosee this masculine space that
has all this I don't know detailand beading and color we could
talk about that for days, but Ithink that that helps that.
You know, it's possibly themost again interesting, colorful
yeah you know, detail-oriented,overt, I would say, masking
(10:32):
space available compared tosomething like the revenant or
something like or somethingquiet or oppenheimer or even
something like oppenheimer,which last year was dressing a
lot of men exactlythey did get in and she did get
in for the first time and shehas famously never been
nominated, but the film was justenough of a best picture
contender.
But that was a period piece,right.
But I think what really bodeswell for lisa crystal getting
(10:52):
her second oscar nomination isthat she was finally invited to
her guild with her with theguild nomination.
It was her first guildnomination, which is a big
accomplishment yeah and shecould possibly even win that
category.
So I think all signs arepointing to her finally getting
that second nomination.
And, you know, maybe we talkabout symmetrical years maybe
(11:12):
this is the year where conclaveis able to manage edward
berger's first nomination intocostume with lisa cristo who's
been there, and maybe they'llfail to get that nomination for
production design, because hegot that with aqua in the
western front, possibly.
Jules (11:25):
So that's a possibility, right, possibly.
And uh, on the note of peoplewho, uh, artists who were
nominated last year gladiator 2was a nominee last year for um,
napoleon right team wasnominated last year for nap for
Napoleon, and so that's onereason why I'm really skeptical
(11:47):
about them getting anothernomination back to back for
Gladiator 2.
I personally don't think it'sgoing to happen.
Maybe if Napoleon hadn't beenthere, I think it would have a
better shot.
What do you think?
Joseph (12:00):
Well, I agree with you.
I think that that nominationfor the costume designer of
Gladiator 2 with Napoleon isgoing to complicate her chances
this year.
This is something that we alsotalked about in production
design is sort of workingagainst Arthur Max in the
production design category.
They got nominated as a pairlast year, but the costume
(12:21):
designer specifically has onlyever been nominated beforehand
for gladiator, and so she wasfinally able to get that second
nomination at the academy forsomething like napoleon.
You have to wonder if they are.
So they have so much urgency tonominate her for a third
straight away, right?
She doesn't have as as noted asa name as some of her other
(12:42):
peers who have had third, fourth, fourth or fifth nominations
already, and so I do thinkthat's something working against
her.
But it does show that, in termsof someone like Lisa Crystal,
again, when the costume designerI think it's Ellen Miroshnik
and the costume designer ofGladiator 2, the costume
designers for Oppenheimer andfor Napoleon are finally able to
(13:03):
break in, I think it does showthat they're at a moment right
now, the costume designers wherethey're rethinking these
costume designers that they'veleft off the list for a long
time, or possibly for forever,and so they're really open to
giving Ellen her firstnomination for Oppenheimer it's
the best picture movie andthey're really open to giving
(13:24):
the costume designer of Napoleon, who is also a costume designer
of Gladiator 2, her secondnomination in X amount of years,
even if it's not a best picturemovie.
But I do think that somethingcomplicating her chances this
year is the idea that are theyready to not just nominate her a
second time for Napoleon, butthey're ready to nominate her
back to back for Napoleon andnow for Gladiator?
Jules (13:46):
too I agree.
Joseph (13:47):
I also think again, it's yet another really masculine
space and I feel like now we'regetting into an area where maybe
the category is just toomasculine.
Yeah, I agree, right, and thatshould definitely be a red flag
to people.
Jules (13:58):
Right and Blitz got the BAFTA nomination.
I don't think right now it'sstrong enough to get nominated
into this lineup.
What about you?
Joseph (14:06):
Well, I think it's interesting that it was able to
pull off that BAFTA nominationbecause it got so few others
right.
It would have been interestingto see if it had gotten costume
design and production design.
But, even if it got costumedesign.
It makes you wonder if, again,the idea of it being too much of
a masculine space is sort ofpopping its head, rearing its
head, and we want to be able to,you know, design costumes for
(14:29):
women as well.
So I do think it's interesting.
Jacqueline Duran if she were toget nominated for this, it
would be her 10th nomination,and so there would be something
very interesting about that.
She has been someone capable ofgetting a nomination for her
work as the only thing her filmis nominated for remember Cyrano
yeah, um, I don't think it's adone deal.
(14:50):
I think that BAFTA nominationcertainly presents her as a dark
horse, but let's talk about hercollaborator on Cyrano, who got
a nomination alongside with her, who's eligible this year for
his work in Maria right andthat's uh, massimo.
And so what do you think aboutmaria possibly making it into
this list?
I mean, we're talking aboutvery little female energy that
this category requires.
Jules (15:11):
I like the.
I like that we're costumingwomen particularly callous.
Um, I am interested in that.
It was nominated for its guildand I think initially I thought
it stood a really good chance towin its category in the guild
the costume designers guild, um,and by winning its category I
(15:32):
think it would make it a shoe into get nominated.
That being said, someone wasreally left out of that category
.
Uh, that was surprising, was acomplete unknown.
Maybe they would have won hadthey been in that category.
And now, as the buzz for mariahas really died down a lot
following the the sort of dyingdown of angelina jolie's chances
, as we had pointed out earlierin our podcast, um, before those
(15:56):
snubs started to occur I feelthat it's become harder to see
that film winning that categoryin that guild and more likely,
possibly something likeNosferatu winning that category.
So right now I don't think thatI see Maria having enough of a
chance to break in here.
Joseph (16:14):
It's interesting.
I mean it sort of brings usinto another major contender,
which is A Complete Unknown, asyou had mentioned.
So, we talked about needingthat female energy and maria
fits that to a t but we're alsogoing to need some real energy,
some energy of somethinghistorical or biographical right
maria certainly fits that to at, but so does a complete
(16:35):
unknown, and a complete unknownwas able to get that bafta right
and so there's sort of thissymmetry going on right between
maria and a complete exactly,yeah they're sort of you know,
crossing each other in terms ofwhat they're trying to campaign
on or or distinguish themselveson.
And so maria gets its guildnomination for period right and
is, uh, costuming real people,and then a complete unknown gets
(16:57):
the bafta nomination for, again, costuming real people.
Both costume designers havebeen nominated before.
Jules (17:03):
Arian phil is probably a little bit more and,
interestingly enough, arian philwas nominated with her last
collaboration with mangled withjames mangled for walk the line.
Yeah, so there's a symmetrythere, right?
Um, and she was not nominatedat the bafta for walk the line.
Oh wow, yeah, I'm pretty sure.
Don't call me, but I'm almostpretty sure that she was not.
Joseph (17:23):
Oh, that's very interesting and so, yes, she was
snubbed from her guild.
Possibly that was because theydid not have an opportunity to
see it.
Some of those earlier announcingguilds including costumes and
film editors, did not list thecomplete unknown, but since it's
gained so much steam, one canonly assume that maybe they
weren't as widely viewed by thatpoint when the guild announced.
(17:45):
But there's been this idea thatthere have been films to show
up late or to get snubbed by thecostume designers guild that
are able to sort of muster likea bafta bounce back after they
get a bafta nomination, and soI'm thinking of someone like
jacqueline duron, who gotsnubbed by her guild for Little
Women in 2019.
(18:05):
But she was able to get a BAFTAnomination for her work on
Little Women.
And that led to an Oscarnomination and then an Oscar win
, right?
So the lack of a guildnomination for a complete
unknown?
Jules (18:17):
is not a death sentence Exactly.
Joseph (18:19):
Someone else to do it is someone like Sandy Powell for
the Irishman, and someone likeMary Zoffries, I believe, for
Ballad of Buster Scruggs.
It's important that all of themare former nominees.
But Arianne Phillips is aformer nominee, so she's in a
perfect position to sort of takethat BAFTA nomination and
translate that into an Oscarnomination 100% I agree, and it
(18:40):
would really help us sort offulfill that requirement of
having a sort of historicalbiographical film within here.
Jules (18:46):
Right, I agree.
I know another contender,possibly Beetlejuice.
Beetlejuice got a CostumeDesigners Guild nomination.
I'm not seeing it so much forthat film.
Same thing with Furiosa.
I think Furiosa should be onthis list, but is not going to
be on this list.
Furiosa, I think Furiosa shouldbe on this list but is not
(19:08):
going to be on this list.
Purphree Contenders theSubstance yeah, a bunch of
Purphree Contenders, but I feellike that's the main.
Those are the main.
That's the main group.
What do you think?
Joseph (19:17):
Well, I think that I agree.
I think you have Colleen Atwoodin Beetlejuice, beetlejuice and
Tim Burton, of course, afavorite in costume design.
Is there enough work there?
I think that ever since ColleenAtwood won an Oscar for one of
the fantastic creatures, filmsBetty.
Redmayne.
I think she sort of has beensort of left out of this list
(19:37):
because she has now beenrewarded so abundantly.
But her work is always greatand Tim Burton's always going to
be something that costumedesigners check out.
As same thing for jenny beavenand furiosa, which I 100 agree
with you should be on there.
Fantastic work again.
So well rewarded.
Nominations for miss harrisgoes to paris, nomination for
cruella and a win for cruellaand mad max, so she's just been
(20:00):
so abundantly rewarded.
Both those films, I think, wouldhave needed their production
designers alongside with them togo the distance in terms of
securing a nomination.
Um, you bring up something likethe substance, which I'm afraid
is just too contemporary, muchlike amelia perez.
Both those films well done, butare going to be left out of
production designers and costumedesigners.
(20:21):
But there is one title that isa period piece that you would
think maybe could figure in here, because the category is a
little bit thin, but I don'tknow.
What are your thoughts aboutsomething like the brutalist
crashing this list?
Jules (20:35):
you know, I'm not, I'm, I'm not sure I see the brutalist
making it into this list.
Um, for some reason in thatfilm, possibly because there's
so much attention being put toother aspects of that film, but
the costume designing, although,uh, fitting the period, uh,
more than well.
(20:55):
Um, wasn't the thing, wasn't aa technical element that I
walked away, that I walked awaywith.
What about about you?
Joseph (21:04):
I would agree, and I think, more importantly, the
filmography of the costumedesigner is a little bit, uh,
thinner or behind compared tothe other contenders in this
category, and I think that'sreally the most difficult thing,
maybe if it was a costumedesigner like Linda Muir who's?
Been doing it a little bitlonger, she'd have a little bit
more of an edge.
But, as we said, it a littlebit longer, she'd have a little
(21:26):
bit more of an edge.
Jules (21:26):
But, as we said, you know , costume designers are going to
look at those films that arelisted for cinematography and
production design.
Joseph (21:32):
The brutalist is going to be one of those right?
Um, it's also a period piece,but it also reminds you of
something like uh, everythingeverywhere all at once, in the
sense that no one was reallyexpecting it to show up there,
but it's able to show up therebecause it is a major contender,
and it's not in cinematography,it's not in production design,
it's not in makeup, but it is ahuge best picture movie.
Jules (21:50):
Right.
Joseph (21:50):
And it is an eclectic sort of display of costume work.
Jules (21:54):
Right.
Joseph (21:54):
But it also brings me up to that idea that you know we
do not have a short list forcostume design.
But maybe the next best thingwe can do is look at the BAFTA
long list and look at the guildnominations to sort of narrow
down who we think can sort offill out this field If we feel
like maybe we have a little toomuch masculine energy or we
don't have enough biographicalmaterial.
(22:15):
If you look at the BAFTA longlist, the BAFTA nominees in and
of themselves I think they endup showing maybe three to four
nominees sort of go from beingBAFTA nominees to Oscar nominees
.
But if you look at the longlist from BAFTA ever since
they've been published, you'llfind even more sort of overlap,
and so there you can sort ofmaybe get four to possibly five
(22:38):
nominees that are going to be atthe Oscars.
And if that's the case again,the BAFTA nominees this year
were Blitz, jacqueline Duran AComplete Unknown Arianne
Phillips, conclave, nosferatuand Wicked and a lot of those
sound good, but the movies thatcame up short that maybe could
reveal who can spoil any one ofthose films is Dune II with
(23:00):
Jacqueline West, um with shakiniwest.
Previous nominee beetlejuice,beetlejuice, emilia perez
furiosa and gladiator 2.
I will say so not even thebrutalist, not even the
brutalist right.
Um, but again, the back to longlist did not have everything
everywhere all at once nor didthey have a film from massimo,
which was pinocchio, right,right, um.
(23:21):
So I do think they're not goingto be perfect.
They don't have to be perfect.
Maybe there's a dark horse herethat we're not even too aware of
, but I do think that it'sinteresting that the BAFTA
nominees, four of them areveterans and you have one newbie
, nosferatu and Linda Muir lookspretty secure to get that
nomination, and of the five thatwere left out, the only newbie
(23:44):
is Emilia Perez, and I thinkthat it's far off from a
nomination, but any one of thoseveterans can steal a spot,
whether it's Dune II,Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice,
Furiosa Gladiator 2.
Jules (23:57):
If you had to choose one.
Which one do you like?
Joseph (23:58):
the most to steal a spot .
Dune 2, for sure.
Dune 2, jacqueline West I wouldagree with that.
And if we look at the guild forthe costume designers, you have
Imperium.
You have the Book of Clarence,which was one of my favorite
films of the year, which wasabsolutely fantastic.
I'd love to see this nomination.
You have Maria Gliator 2, nasfor rottu and saturday night
saturday night from dannyglicker.
He's a former nominee too, andthis is again, interestingly
(24:19):
enough, another one of thosehistorical biographical elements
that the category could reallyuse.
Yeah, um, and so people arepegging from there really only
nas for rottu and some peoplegladiator too, but we've sort of
said that that doesn't soundthat great.
Right, a back-to-backnomination, but from period,
traditionally you would seethree to four films nominated,
(24:39):
and right now, how many are youpegging from there?
I believe you're only peggingone Nosferatu.
Jules (24:44):
Yeah, you know, that's true.
I only have Nosferatu right now.
Joseph (24:47):
That technically is a little bit off?
I don't think it's impossible,but it's a little bit off.
They do have some off years.
Maybe this is one of those.
Like I said, maybe they justdid not see a complete unknown
with enough time and for somereason, both the designers for
costumes and productiondesigners did not like Blitz for
this category.
Jules (25:07):
Are they average?
Three or two to three?
Three to four, three to fourreally, so not even two.
Joseph (25:11):
Not even two, but it is possible.
I think something like in 2016,when you had Jackie and
Florence Foster Jenkins I thinkthose might have been the only
two, because I think Allied wassnubbed and then you had La La
Land, which is a contemporarypiece, and so it does.
It can happen, but it's notwhat usually happens.
You should be looking for threeto four, and then on the
(25:32):
fantasy side is where you shouldbe looking for one to two.
Right, and the fantasy nomineeswere wicked, which seems like a
no-brainer beetlejuice.
Beetlejuice.
Borderlands is far away,furiosa is far away, but dune 2
looks pretty good, so you cantake two from there as well.
Um, the only problem is thatright now, you're just taking
one from period instead oftaking both nosferatu and maria,
for example right um.
(25:53):
And then you have contemporary,which is emilia perez.
The substance fall guy,challengers and conclave, and
most people, including yourself,are pegging for conclave to get
in but again, not an easy thingto do to be a contemporary film
and get one of those spots.
I mean we're pegging that lisacrystal between her first guild
nomination and get the spothaving been snubbed for aqua on
(26:15):
the and concrete being such abig, being such a big contender
possibly being there incinematography and production
design, that that's going to bethe winning uh recipe or formula
for her to get in.
Um, there should definitely besome overlap between costume
design and makeup, and so if welook at the makeup shortlist for
the academy and we maybe, youknow, sort of cross out some of
(26:36):
those titles that are going tohave a very difficult time
making a dent here because ofthe nature of the film or that
they're very contemporary pieces.
We can take away, for example,emilia perez and the substance,
but we can also almost assuredlytake away the apprentice, a
different man right waltzingwith brando.
We just have a handful of titlesthat are sort of wrestling for
what should be, on average, twomovies to show up in makeup and
(27:00):
costume.
Now, it can go as little as one, although most of the time it's
two, and it's even gone as highas four, and maybe that's the
kind of year we're in.
I'll tell you what the titlesare now, but in 2020, it went
all the way up to four.
Granted, it was a pandemic year,so you have to, you know, put
an asterisk next to that, butthe titles would be wicked,
which looks really good for itand as far out, to which we're
(27:22):
pegging for it.
And then there's beetlejuice,beetlejuice dune and maria right
right and so not very often dothey get three.
So if we're sort of saying thatwicked and as far out to other
films to sort of bridge makeupand costume, then maybe we are
going to see dune be a makeupnominee and not a costume
(27:43):
nominee, even though that's notwhat I'm thinking right now
right.
Jules (27:46):
I think that's a really good point.
On that note, I think my finalpredictions for costume design
are going to be wicked, and us,for our two, I'm going to go
with conclave, for sure.
I'm going to go with a completeunknown and for that last spot,
I think I'm going to go withdune part two I think that's
(28:11):
five for five what I'm pegging.
Joseph (28:13):
Wicked seems like a lock nos for raw team seems like
it's going to happen.
Conclave should beat the Curseof the Contemporary.
And then I really do think thatthe BAFTA bounce back is a
thing and that Arian Phillipswill be able to ride that into a
nomination for a completeunknown.
And finally, I'm not sure I seeanyone that is compelling
enough to knock off Dune Part 2.
(28:33):
And maybe this is just a yearwhere we're going to have more
than two nominees, both inmakeup and in costume.
Or maybe, just maybe, makeup isso competitive with
contemporary titles that wemight see a couple of perceived
favorites like Wicked orNosferatu maybe not make that
list.
Jules (28:51):
Right, right.
I completely agree.
Joseph (28:53):
And so if you had to pick a spoiler for those five,
who would you pick right now?
Jules (28:57):
as a spoiler, I think I'd go.
Joseph (28:58):
I'd go, blitz yeah, I think blitz might make a lot of
sense.
I think maria is right thereyeah but it's such a limited,
you know, wardrobe in the sensethat it takes place over a very
few number of days and also verylimited cast of characters.
It's hard for me to think thatjacqueline Duran could not get
in for her excellent costumingin Pablo Larraín Spencer right
(29:21):
but Massimo is going to be ableto get in for the costuming in
Maria right so I think I wouldgo with Blitz too okay, and
that's our dive into our finalpredictions for costume design.
Let's take a look at thecategory of best makeup and
hairstyling, and we have a shortlist there, or a long list, I
should say, to help us sort ofnarrow down this field.
(29:43):
It's already incrediblynarrowed down.
Keep in mind that this categoryis usually determined by
bake-off, something like thevisual effects category is, and
the visual effects branch thewildfires might have complicated
that issue, so I don't knowwhat impact that might have.
Let's start digging into some ofthese semi-finalists, um, and
(30:05):
some of them look really goodand very promising, and I'm just
going to run through them allbecause I do think this is a
category where there's maybesome false confidence in people
in terms of how it's going toend up.
So let's start with thesubstance.
Right, which is a best picturefavorite?
Um, one of the few ones on thislist.
You know it's a genre film.
(30:27):
Yeah, I think this.
Jules (30:29):
I think that film is locked for this nomination I
think it looks pretty good for alock.
Joseph (30:34):
I think the Achilles heel here is that the team is
not really well known, I think,to the Academy, so that's
something to look out for ifsomething happens there, I mean.
The other thing is genre bias.
This would be.
This is certainly pushing thegenre envelope for traditional
Academy of voters, even in amakeup branch.
When you see a movie likeanything from david cronenberg,
(30:55):
shortlisted or long listed inthis category, I should say it's
not very often that the davidcronenberg film ends up with a
nomination.
The popularity, the substance,could prove the difference maker
, but that's just something tobe aware of right then there's
wicked right, which has to be abig favorite here, like
blockbuster, musical, um, a lotof the sort of background hair
work that's going on, but Iimagine a lot of it is also the
(31:15):
makeup work done on cynthia revoright.
It's going to be the bigcalling card for the film.
And then there's nasferatu,which is interesting because
this is one sort of categorythat really does welcome the
sort of classic monster monstermovies of the past and nasferatu
, of course, has its origin inthe early silent film, and so
(31:35):
that's going to be somethingthat, traditionally, the branch
would be very excited for, youknow the character of dracula
has been on here multiple times,right, so that's something to
look out for.
Then you have something likebeetlejuice.
Beetlejuice, right, which hasto be a favorite tim burden in
this category, has doneextraordinarily well.
The first beetlejuice, anominee, a winner.
It has qualified once again.
(31:56):
A couple of interesting thingsthere.
Um, dune part two isshortlisted here, uh, which is
interesting in the sense that itlost this award, one of the few
losses it had in 2021, when itlost to tammy faye.
Jules (32:09):
I thought that was a controversial loss and the very
interesting thing is that it gotsnubbed from the makeup, makeup
and hairstylist guild.
Joseph (32:16):
Right, and we're going to start cross-referencing these
films with the films thatactually got spotlighted there.
But to finish running down thelist, you also have A Different
man, which is terribly, terriblyedgy, I would say, for what the
Academy would go for.
But you do see some, like Isaid, david Cornerbrook films
show up here, so I'm notsurprised to see it on the long
list, right, but certainly, asyou start talking about certain
(32:40):
vulnerabilities in films andcampaigns, there's something
kind of interesting going onwith a different man in the
sense that, well, first of allit's sort of a genre piece.
It's certainly an independentfilm, a very idiosyncratic film
right right at the same, it'sdoing this amazing sort of
makeup job on Sebastian Stan,who won a Golden Globe for his
(33:02):
performance here, but you kindof lose the makeup work maybe
halfway into the movie right,which is possibly a
vulnerability here.
And the other aspect is, youknow, as sebastian stan said,
there is some part of this filmthat is tackling this element of
disfigurement right and we'veseen that play out well for this
(33:26):
branch in films, for example,like wonder and films like mask.
And the problem here is thatthis movie is much more
challenging.
Possibly it's not based on atrue story or anything, but it
is taboo, pushing in the best ofways.
I really love the film, one ofmy favorite films of the year.
Jules (33:47):
Yeah, I really like that film as well.
Including a different man herein this category is very
interesting because obviouslythe film is dealing with
characters that are strugglingwith neurofibromatosis and
that's not something that yousee often portrayed in film and
recognized in this category, andthere's very distinct work
(34:11):
being done in sort of the facialdisfigurement of Sebastian
Stan's character, and I justthink it's a very interesting
aspect, dynamic, that doesn'toften get included into this
category, that I think theywould like to spotlight.
Joseph (34:28):
That's possible.
I do wonder if there's going tobe part of them that are
probably would rather avoid it.
I do think it maybe brings upsome interesting questions as to
you know, what we get, what'spossible with makeup.
I certainly think it's the kindof film where had it been in
the bake-off it would have beensuch a striking inclusion on the
(34:48):
list right, and the work, howhe was able to accomplish the
makeup work would have been veryattention calling.
It would have been somethingvery boundary pushing and
possibly very exciting formembers to see.
But since we're unsure as towhat part the Bake Off played in
the process, you know the moviein and of itself could sort of
(35:09):
get lost among these bigger,more notable titles.
Another movie to talk about isEmilia perez, and that should be
a favorite for so manycategories it's included here.
This is maybe one of the fewcategories where it should not
be a favorite right that said,it did get a surprising
nomination at bafta and we'lldig into those nominees in a
little bit um.
And then the final threeinclusions on this list I think
(35:32):
were surprising to a lot ofpeople and I think they've also
been possibly unfairly sort ofdismissed as contenders in this
category and that's maria withangie and julie the apprentice
with sebastian stan againsebastian stan, sort of being
the man of a thousand faces thisyear, which is great.
Uh, two wonderful films, twowonderful makeup jobs, and then
(35:54):
you have waltzing with brando,which was really sort of left
field choice, but really nice tosee also well, it makes sense
also also.
It really does.
It really does, and it lookslike they did a one hell of a
makeup job there.
Jules (36:06):
I haven't seen the film yet I don't know when it's going
to be distributed but itcertainly looks like a great
makeup job again.
Joseph (36:11):
That bake off, I think, might have been the difference
maker for some of these filmsyeah um, keep in mind that when
it comes to makeup, they'renominating the team, and so I do
think we're going to see inthis category a couple of new
individuals, new uh nominees,but we are going to see a
substantial amount, I think, ofprevious nominees and I think
it's worth breaking down.
(36:32):
You know where they all standin that regard.
So we have the substance right,which I think is, as you said,
one of the locks in thiscategory.
But no one on that team hasbeen nominated for an Oscar
before.
A lot of international, I think, artisans on that team, as is
it's sort of sister projectbecause, again, it's sort of a
French film, sort of not aFrench film.
(36:53):
The substance is sort of aFrench film, sort of a British
film, sort of not a French film.
The Substance is sort of aFrench film, sort of a British
film, sort of an American film.
Amelia Perez is sort of aMexican film, a French film shot
in Australia, spanish actors,so it's sister sort of project.
Amelia Perez from Cannes.
Also, its team doesn't have anyindividuals who were nominated
previously.
So I think that's kind ofinteresting.
And then, of course, theWaltzing with Brando team has
(37:14):
not been nominated either for anOscar, although I do think
there are some people who havesome pretty steep credits when
it comes to something like Emmys.
So that's interesting.
And then, if you look at someonelike Wicked, who's also kind of
a favorite here, there's reallyonly one individual on its team
who has reaped one nominationand a win for that nomination.
Then you have the team of theApprentice, which also has one
(37:36):
nomination between them, I think, on the hair side.
At the same time, the filmmaker, the director, ali Abassi, has
gotten other films nominatedhere, I think Border in 2018.
So I think the branch isfamiliar with his type of work.
Then you have, for example,speaking of Sebastian Stan.
You have A Different man ofsebastian stan.
You have a different man and,uh, the prosthetics designer, I
(37:58):
believe, there has twonominations to his filmography.
You have the nasferatu team, Ithink has an individual of two
nominations to their filmography, and you have the beetlejuice
beetlejuice team right, which Ithink has a couple of people,
one with a win and a nomination,I believe.
And then it's kind ofinteresting because it listed
among beetlejuice's team right,which I think has a couple of
people one with a win and anomination, I believe and then
it's kind of interesting becauseit listed among Beetlejuice's
(38:20):
credits for makeup is NeilScanlon, who famously has a
bunch of accolades from theAcademy on the visual effects
side.
So I think Warner Brothers andthe team of Beetlejuice really
wants to highlight the specialeffects makeup work on the film.
I don't know if that's going tobe an element that is a turn on
(38:41):
to voters or a turn off tovoters.
What I do know is that there arenot very many visual effects,
special effects artists who havebeen nominated for both visual
effects and for makeup.
Yeah, and so neil scanlontrying to sort of be nominated
in the makeup category.
That could be interesting,something that excites them, or
(39:02):
it could also be something thatthey would rather just nominate
strictly hair and makeup peopleand prosthetics people, right,
um.
So it'll be interesting to seeif that nomination does come
into fruition, if maybe thatsort of special makeup effects
element that it has is whathelped it get to the finish line
and then, surprisingly, one ofthe most experienced and awarded
(39:24):
makeup teams is actually theteam of maria right, yeah which
has multiple individuals withnominations I think possibly
three or four of them, and somewith a couple of nominations,
and there again is a film thatmost people have dismissed up to
this point Right.
Jules (39:37):
Right.
And something that I findreally interesting about Maria
is that our experience watchingthat film the first time several
months ago at a festival wasthat the audience around us had
a little bit of a hard timefeeling like Angelina Jolie
looked like Maria Callas, right,and even though I thought the
(39:59):
makeup work was well done inthat film, I think the film ends
with in the credits you havefootage from Maria Callas and
when you see her and you've justseen the film it doesn't help.
It doesn't help in that, youknow, even though the makeup
work is well done, angelinaJolie doesn't look very much
(40:21):
like Maria Callas, unlike, youknow, kristen Stewart, who had a
very eerie resemblance toPrincess Diana in her film.
Joseph (40:29):
Right.
Jules (40:29):
So I think that's something that goes against the
movie, despite having thesedecorated artisans and several
nominations between them.
I think that's one reason whythat film hasn't caught fire in
that category.
Joseph (40:42):
Is it transformative enough?
I think is the question thatwe're posing here.
Is the work on Angelina Jolieas Maria Callas transformative
enough or is it justcomplementing Angelina Jolie's
sort of presence?
Jules (40:55):
It is good work and I do think it's solid work.
Joseph (40:57):
Yes, it's up to the academy to decide if it was
transformative enough it doeshave a couple of things going
for it, but let's talk about,for example, as you start to
narrow this list down.
Let's talk about who got intothe guild right, and I think
that's a very good place tostart, because the guild has
sort of shown who the nomineesare going to be, except for
maybe a handful of titles, andthose handful of titles recently
(41:20):
.
They have something in commonand that's, I believe, a couple
of films that got blanked.
There, as you say, is all quieton the western front and
society of the snow right, um,one of them, I think, would end
up winning the oscar right.
But both those films that gotleft out are international
productions, foreign productions, productions from another
country.
That's probably an element asto why they did not get in.
(41:45):
But the other nominees, in eachyear respectively, were
highlighted at the Guild.
So the other thing I would sayis, if you go back a little
further, you're going to seemaybe a couple of American
titles miss the Guild.
So the other thing I would sayis, if you go back a little
further, you're going to seemaybe a couple of American
titles miss the Guild Award andstill manage to get an Oscar
nomination, but they're, for themost part going to be able to
(42:06):
get a BAFTA bounce back, whichmeans they'll be nominated at
BAFTA for the makeup categoryand be able to sort of use that
to catapult them into the finalfive for the academy.
But if we look at the guild'snominees this year, I think
there are certain categories inthe guild that are more
important.
So there's contemporary workfor makeup and contemporary work
(42:27):
for hair.
Then there's period andcharacter work for makeup and
period and character work forhair and then there's the more
special effects prostheticsection.
The absolute best place to be at, from my experience and what
I've observed, is in the specialeffects prosthetic section.
That's really where a lot ofthe chewiness is found for
(42:48):
voters.
And so this year, among thenominees that are eligible for
the Oscar, you'll find theSubstance Beetlejuice,
beetlejuice and A Different man.
So those are really, you know,scene-stealing sort of
prosthetics works and prostheticdesigns that are going into the
film and sort of what thebake-off would really sort of
(43:09):
show off.
Jules (43:09):
Yeah, highlight.
Joseph (43:11):
So it's great to have all three of those films there.
I think that's a huge advantagefor all of them.
I do think that of genredominance here you know a lot of
horror, horror comedy and evensome sort of independent horror
element, with a different manmaybe.
So I do wonder if that's goingto play a factor into the voting
(43:34):
branch saying you know, I wanta different style of film.
And then in some of the othercategories you'll see, for
example, emilia Perez and theSubstance again listed for
contemporary makeup.
They're contemporary films, notthe best category to be in, but
it's again really important tobe mentioned here.
And then you'll see Beetlejuice, beetlejuice and Wicked
nominated for the first time inthe period and character makeup
(43:57):
section.
So Wicked did not make theprosthetic section and Amelia
Perez did not make theprosthetic section, but at least
they're being nominated.
A different man made theprosthetic section, the effects
section and nothing else.
But so we basically have hereis about five nominees.
I believe that the guild reallythrew their weight behind, and
so that would be the substanceEmilia Perez, beetlejuice,
(44:21):
beetlejuice, wicked and ADifferent man.
And that is not a necessarilybad place to start formulating
what your final five should moreor less look like there was one
title that was completelysnubbed from the guild, which
called a lot of people'sattention because it's period
work, it's genre work, it's thesort of genre work they've
(44:42):
recognized in the past, andthat's Nosferatu.
Jules (44:44):
Yeah, I'm feeling like that could be an indicative snub
.
Joseph (44:48):
And then the other really big sort of snubbing that
the Guild did was Dune Part 2,with no nominations there.
Jules (44:55):
Yeah, that one was the most shocking.
Joseph (44:56):
I think that was really surprising, because some people
were excusing the Nosferatu snubas possibly they hadn't had an
opportunity to see it.
Nosferatu snub, as possiblythey hadn't had an opportunity
to see it, whereas it's verydifficult to think of a valid
reason or a very good reason asto why they would leave out Dune
2 other than, as you'vementioned before, in other
episodes.
I've seen it, I've rewarded itand that's enough.
Jules (45:19):
But there's also an important point to note here,
and it's that the submission ofDune and the makeup category
this year for the Oscars is abit different, because they only
submitted the work of a fewartists as opposed to the
entirety of the film, that mighthave an effect on whether the
film gets nominated or not.
Joseph (45:37):
in this category, you're right, that may be a factor at
the end.
I will say I didn't mention it,but those two individuals
submitted for Dune Part 2, theyare three-time nominees and
they've yet to win, and I don'tknow if that's an argument for
them getting nominated or anargument, as you've said,
against them being nominatedright, in the sense that the
team which I think would, Iwould imagine, is more expansive
(45:57):
, has been sort of whittled downto just two individuals.
Right, but what's good for boththose movies is that they had
what we like to call a BAFTAbounce back.
Right, because the BAFTAshortlisted five films and their
five films included what somepeople are calling locks, the
Substance Wicked, and then theyhad Amelia Perez and they
finally included Dune Part Twoand Nosferatu, and so the films
(46:20):
not to make it onto there were.
Jules (46:22):
Beetlejuice.
Joseph (46:23):
Beetlejuice, beetlejuice and A Different man.
Now, if you analyze the BAFTA,you kind of realize that over
the last couple of years theBAFTA nominees for makeup have
been pretty good.
They've been averaging aroundfour of those films nominated
for BAFTA makeup crossing overand being Academy Award nominees
for makeup, which I think is avery good streak and a very high
(46:46):
rate of crossover.
So it's interesting to seeBAFTA's five compared to the
five more dominant titles at theGuild.
And the other reallyinteresting thing about BAFTA is
that there is a long list andso, because there is a long list
, you get to see the other filmsthat were not nominated.
Of the titles that were notnominated, the only two eligible
(47:08):
films for the Oscars that madethe Oscar long list are
Beetlejuice.
Beetlejuice, which wasnominated a bunch of times at
the Guild Award, and theApprentice, which was not
nominated at all at the GuildAward.
But there's somethinginteresting about the apprentice
and the fact that somethingthat this category is missing
and we talk about all the timeis that we're going to need some
(47:29):
real people, some historical orbiographical people in this
category.
And you know, a film like acomplete unknown, which is a
favorite for so many oscars,didn't qualify here right and so
that's a trend that, if youexamine over the years and we'll
talk about it in a minute sortof it becomes apparent that the
bafta five have a hole in thembecause they don't really have a
lot of historical biographicalmaterial there, and the Guild 5
(47:54):
also have sort of a hole in thembecause they don't have any of
that either, and the AcademyAward category has been really
pro, including at least one filmthat has that element to it.
Now here's the good news thebafta long list as it's been
published over these last fewyears, it actually has had every
(48:15):
single makeup nominee at theacademy except society of the
snow, and society the snow, Ithink, ends up being nominated
because not only is it doingkind of a unique sort of weather
effect, on the skin and on theindividuals and that sort of
really stood out from the othercontenders.
But also it was highlighted atthe european film awards, much
(48:37):
like all quiet on the westernfront was the year before, and
part of its team were previousnominees for their work on Pan's
Labyrinth.
All that to say that thereisn't necessarily a film
positioned in the same way thisyear to sort of reap that
nomination.
There was no one reallyhighlighted at the European Film
Awards for makeup that's goingto be able to cross over or that
(49:00):
is eligible.
And the foreign film, theforeign language film that's
most prominent here is AmeliaPerez and that got guild
nominations anyway.
And no, none of these films arereally dealing with, you know,
that sort of element of, again,environmental changes on the
skin or environmental effects onthe skin, and so I'm not sure
(49:24):
that.
I'm pretty sure that we can saythat all the makeup nominees
are going to have come out ofBAFTA Right, which is bad news
for a bunch of films that didnot get nominated for BAFTA or
get shortlisted for BAFTA,including something like Maria
or something like Brando, butthat's a really positive sign
(49:45):
for something like theApprentice or Beetlejuice, if
the stat is to stand that BAFTAhas had all of the eventual
Academy Award nominees formakeup from their long list, all
except, again, just that onefilm, society of the Snow, and,
as we said, it's really unlikelythat a film is going to be able
to repeat that trajectory.
Then it sort of bodes well thatthe eventual makeup nominees
(50:08):
will come out of the five BAFTAnominees and either the
Apprentice or Beetlejuice, orboth usurping a couple of those
titles or one of those titles.
So BAFTA should have again it'sbeen averaging four nominees
out of their five nominees formakeup and the individual or the
film that's missing is usuallyagain in their long list.
(50:31):
So they should really have allfive, and right now I think
we're looking at seven titles.
So I don't know if you agreeand you would pick your five out
of those seven titles, or ifmaybe there is something that is
going to sneak in without bathto having spotlighted it, maybe
something like a different man.
I don't know.
What are you thinking?
Jules (50:50):
Right.
I mean, I think the biggestthing that gives me pause in
this category is that I wouldlike to include some real people
.
I think that's a trend.
That being said, the Makeup andHairstylist Guild actually
didn't include a lot of realpeople at all this year, and
that might be thedifferentiation between this
year and other years, when theydo include in the Guild real
(51:13):
life figures, and those reallife figures replicate again at
the Oscars.
So that could always happen.
I'm thinking right now that Ifeel really good about the
Substance and about Wicked, andI'm going to say that
Beetlejuice.
Beetlejuice has sort of thelegacy behind it and the
(51:33):
financial success and mentionsin the Guild for it to get in,
and Tim Burton does well in thiscategory.
I think A Different man is anopportunity to spotlight
something different in thiscategory.
I think the makeup artistswould be impressed by the work
in that film and it's somethingyou don't really see often in
(51:54):
this category.
I think that makes it stand out.
And, honestly, the last spot isa tough one because I'm torn
between Nosferatu, which I thinkis really good that it got the
BAFTA nomination, and again thesort of as you were saying
earlier in this episode, thatmonster figures tend to do well
in this category, and Nasferatuis a figure very well known in
(52:21):
that world and the Apprentice,which I think has fabulous work
done.
I think the hairstyling in thatfilm is terrific, the makeup is
very good, you see thecharacters in that film and you
really see and feel the peoplethat you've been seeing all
these years in torment, and sothe work there is just spot on
(52:45):
and terrific, and so I would notbe the least bit surprised to
see that film slide in here,possibly instead of Nosferatu,
or possibly, well, instead ofNosferatu, and you'd have the
inclusion of both Sebastian Stanfilms A Different man and the
Apprentice or Nosferatu does getin, and really it's one or the
(53:08):
other Sebastian Stanfilm, eithera different man or the
apprentice.
Right now I think the safestthing is to include Nassaratu.
I wish the apprentice had beennominated at the BAFTA.
The BAFTA has been, as you weresaying, on a streak of getting
about four right, and if Iinclude Beetlejuice, beetlejuice
and the apprentice, on a streakof getting about four right,
and if I include Beetlejuice,beetlejuice and the Apprentice,
(53:28):
they'd be only getting three.
So right now I'm tempted to gowith consensus of the Substance
Wicked, beetlejuice, a Differentman and Asmaratu, but I'm
really, really, really, reallyconcerned about the Apprentice.
I think that has a reallylegitimate shot of getting into
this category.
Joseph (53:45):
Well, here's some other patterns to sort of keep in mind
as you start finalizing yourlist.
I like your list, and one ofthe things that I like about it
is that you have potentially twocostume nominees there in
Nosferatu and Wicked and thereis some crossover significant
crossover between makeup andcostume design.
You'll see movies that wereshortlisted in costume at BAFTA,
for example, like Emma, crossedover into a makeup nomination
here, crossover between makeupand costume design.
You'll see movies that wereshortlisted in costume at BAFTA,
(54:06):
for example, like Emma, crossover into a makeup nomination
here.
Or movies that were shortlistedin or longlisted in makeup at
BAFTA, like Pinocchio in 2020,make it into costume in the
Academy Awards alongside makeup,and so there's this
relationship going on betweencostume and makeup, and so you
should have at least one title,and you have that, but on
(54:27):
average it's two, and that'sgood that you have wicked and
nosferatu there.
But the other thing to sort ofbe aware of is that this
category also has a lot to dowith performance, right there
are a lot of performances thatare aided by makeup, and makeup
artists are aware of that andthey highlight that, whether
it's something like 2019's jokeror 2019's judy, and so this
(54:47):
category tends to sort of favoror average about three
performances right nominated foran acting oscar that are also
nominated for makeup.
Right now on your list, youhave basically two films that
are favored for nominationsthere, which, which is Wicked
and the Substance, but you'rereally missing another film for
acting, unless possibly, theinclusion of a different man
(55:10):
here could spell a very good dayfor a Sebastian Stan and actor
for a different man.
Jules (55:16):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point.
You're right, that's a trendthat's really important to keep
in mind.
There should be some actors whoare getting nominated for
acting.
Their films show up on thislist.
You're absolutely right aboutthat.
Joseph (55:29):
Now you can also, as you said, swap out Sebastian Stan
films and put in the Apprenticeinstead of A Different man, and
maybe again that bodes well forSebastian Stan reaping a
nomination for the Apprenticeand Lead Actor, and you'll keep
that three acting overlap.
It's good to keep in mind thatthe last time that there was no
real person included in thiscategory was in the year 2016,
(55:52):
and that's when this categorywas limited to just three films.
so when there was three films in2016, there was no real person,
and in years like 2017 and 2018, there were still real people,
and since it's been expanded,it's always had real individuals
, and your list right nowdoesn't have any, not without
either the apprentice, maria orbrando in there, and that's a
(56:14):
very odd thing, and 2016 wasalso the last year that there
was really no overlap betweencostume and makeup, and so we
already talked about how yourlist does have those two films,
but I think it's just importantto say that when the list grows
from three to five, there'salmost always certainly costume
(56:34):
overlap and acting overlap.
Jules (56:37):
And it grows in 2019?
.
Joseph (56:39):
In 2019, it's expanded, but in 2016, when it was just
three nominees, had theyexpanded it, one would imagine
that a film like Florence FosterJenkins would have landed one
of those two spots.
And Florence Foster Jenkins, loand behold, was a nominee for
actress for Meryl Streep and anominee for costume design.
And so it just makes sense thatthere should be costume people
and acting people in thiscategory and real people.
(57:01):
Florence Foster Jenkins wouldhave forced that category to
include real people.
So I think it's important tokeep in mind that sort of
connection between all thoseelements.
And speaking to that, if yousort of examine the BAFTAs, I
think it's sort of similar andit sort of expands that idea
because, beyond the BAFTAs beinggreat at predicting the Oscar 5
(57:22):
nominees for makeup from their5 nominees for makeup at BAFTA,
besides them being great atpredicting the 5 Oscar nominees
based on the 10 movies longlisted for makeup at BAFTA,
beyond that again, thiscrossover between costume and
makeup, it tends to be that atleast two films that were
(57:45):
nominated for the BAFTA atcostume end up being Academy
Award nominees for makeup andthe only two films eligible this
year are actually Nosferatu andWicked.
So possibly those are two filmsthat are going to be very
difficult to snub, as opposed tothe other titles that did not
make a nomination at BAFTA forcostume design.
(58:07):
Right, and if you look at theguild, if you look at the guild,
then you sort of take awaythose two films that they didn't
get, which is all quiet on thewestern front and society, the
snow.
The guild does tend to have alot of those eventual nominees
and those real people included.
So, as you said, maybe thething this year is that there
isn't going to and those realpeople included.
So, as you said, maybe thething this year is that there
isn't going to be any realpeople because the guild did not
(58:29):
include them.
Right, I think that's apossibility, right?
So I think it's a trickycategory.
It's going to be a trickycategory to get right.
Jules (58:36):
Right.
Well, right now, what would yousay are your predicted final
five for this category?
Joseph (58:45):
I think, keeping all those things in mind, I like
BAFTA having four of the fivenominees for the Oscars, so I
would keep the Substance fromBAFTA as an Oscar nominee.
I would keep Nosferatu andWicked they have that costume
element from the BAFTA costumeand then the Guild totally
(59:06):
snubbed Dune 2, but I think theteam is good enough, the work is
good enough and the film ispopular enough and I think
everyone knows it famously lostthis category in 2021.
So I think they'll keep Dune 2.
And that's four of my BAFTApeople, four people from BAFTA,
into my prediction for theAcademy.
And then that last spot I'mactually going to continue with
the trend that BAFTA has all thenominees within their long list
(59:29):
and I'm going to go with theApprentice and that's going to
give me, I think, an element ofsomebody real here, which is,
you know, the contemporarycharacters of the Apprentice,
and I think it's also going tolend me a crossover between an
actor nominee and a makeupnominee, right, and so I would
say the substance dune to nas,for raw to wicked and the
(59:50):
apprentice.
Right now, I think beetle juiceis going to be extremely close,
but I do wonder if the inclusionof someone like neil scanlon is
going to be more of a turn offand turn on that's a good point.
Jules (01:00:02):
That's a really good point.
Um, all right, well, that's ourdive into our predictions, our
final predictions for bestmakeup and hairstyling.
And to check our, our final,final, final predictions.
They'll be on twitter atacademy anon.
Thank you for tuning in.
Thank you for joining us.
Joseph (01:00:19):
I'm jules and I'm joseph .
You've been listening toAcademy Anonymous.
Jules (01:00:23):
And it's been a pleasure.
The music on this episode,entitled Cool Cats, was
graciously provided by KevinMacLeod and incompetechcom,
licensed under Creative Commonsby Attribution 3.0.
Http//creativecommonsorglicenses buy 3.0.
Joseph (01:00:56):
Disclaimer the Academy Anonymous Podcast is in no way
affiliated or endorsed by theAcademy of Motion Picture Arts
and Sciences.
hey, welcome back to academy.
Anonymous, I'm jules and thisis joseph, all right.
Joseph (00:19):
Well, let's jump into costume design, which is sort of
the sister category of bothproduction design and makeup.
So voters there are sort oflooking at both of those
categories to help inform thedecisions, along with the
decisions that you know, theguilds, the guilds, their sister
organizations, have made in thesame branches right.
(00:41):
So, um, let's start talkingabout the films that have sort
of coalesced into a consensus.
This, like production design,has somewhat calcified maybe.
Jules (00:50):
But I do feel there are less sure things, less sure
things here In this categorythat people are perceiving as
sure things.
I think there's room here tosurprise one or two.
Joseph (01:00):
All right.
Well, let's start off with acouple of films that seem like
locks.
Wicked seems like a lock, yeahdefinitely.
And it would be the secondnomination for the costume
designer and that helps.
Jules (01:10):
Yeah definitely.
Joseph (01:12):
Let's talk about Dune Part 2, which is kind of
interesting right.
Jules (01:17):
It is interesting because you would think that that's a
lock.
However, I was really surprisedby the BAFTA snub and I wonder
if there's something to that.
You know, for some reason Ican't help but recall the snub
that happened at BAFTA last yearwith screenplay, when Cause of
the Flower Moon missedscreenplay and that was kind of
(01:39):
shocking.
That was kind of shocking andthat repeated at the Oscars, and
so a part of me is wondering isthere something occurring here?
Why, why the hell would it getsnubbed Right From costume
design?
Joseph (01:50):
You're right, I hadn't thought about that, but that's
very interesting.
I think that, overall, cominginto the Guilds month, the month
where all or the majority ofthe Guilds were revealed there
was much more anticipation forDune II to perform better all
over the place, and so the BAFTAis no exception, and it might
be a symptom of studios likeWarner Brothers needing to
(02:13):
revise whatever strategy they'recoming up with in terms of
dividing films into parts oneand parts two and, depending on
whatever haul, or lack thereof,that Warner Brothers is able to
accomplish with Dune II on Oscarmorning, if it's on the low end
, they're definitely going tohave to rethink what their
strategy is for Academy Awards,because you got to imagine that
(02:38):
to split this movie in two,beyond making money, you would
hope that it would carry somemomentum into possibly being a
film that wins several AcademyAwards, and right now it feels
like it's going to be lucky tomatch the number of nominations
that Dune Part 1 got andcertainly going to have a
difficult time matching thosewins.
So you can only I think ifyou're makers or campaigners of
(03:00):
Dune, you're going to have tosit after Oscar nomination
morning, depending on what theoutcome is, and really consider
did we shoot ourself in the foothere by not making one longer
film that possibly could haveone best picture over a coda or
over power of the dog?
Right and I think that itshould be a possibly it could be
a worrying sign for somethinglike wicked again, part one
(03:23):
right which has a part twocoming at some point right?
Jules (03:25):
100, I think you're.
I think you're right.
But what?
Why do you think?
You think it got snubbed?
Because it came out too earlyand other titles are sort of
competing for attention and itsort of fell by the wayside.
Or you think there's somethingmore particular, distinct at
work?
Joseph (03:42):
well, I think that one of the biggest things is just
the idea of for Dune 2, everysingle craft category that is
going to make the decision tonominate it again is going to
have to consider do I nominatethe same caliber of work again?
You know I nominated JacquelineWest for the costumes, the
(04:03):
excellent costumes, in part one.
Did the costumes change a lotbetween part one and?
Jules (04:08):
part two there are certainly differences.
Joseph (04:09):
There are new characters a new world, but is there
enough there for me to benominating this twice?
And I think that's a questionthat is going to be posed not
just on voters of the costumedesigners branches all of the
branches, whether it'scinematographers and editors, so
you might just end up seeingnominations for dune 2 for those
(04:32):
categories, those craftcategories, those below those
below the line categories formembers and branches that
thought there was somethingeither really new or just
diehard fans of what was therein part one right and I'm afraid
that in terms of costume, theyjust were not big fans of it
this time or they didn't seeenough substantial change for
(04:53):
them to nominate it again Now.
I will say that Jacqueline Westisn't necessarily a perennial
nominee at BAFTA.
You know, she's someone who didnot get nominated.
Example for the revenant atbafta and she did pull off that
nomination and I think that partof it is that, unfortunately,
there's this element of costumedesign that tends to favor this
(05:16):
concept.
I I would, I would assume, ofeither fantasy period, but
there's also this, I think,underlying bias about dressing
women, and sometimes jacquelinewest can work in these very
masculine environments if youthink?
Of something like the revenantand the work is very detailed,
but because, there aren't, youknow, lush female characters
(05:39):
that you're dressing.
Think about the work that jennybeaven does on something like
cruella, or even something like,you know, mad max, which again
isn't necessarily very feminine.
But there's this dystopianelement right that's very.
You know it's very attentioncalling attention calling
fantasy, and so because therevenant is more, I think,
(06:00):
catered around sort of thismasculine space I think
unfortunately it failed to getthat baptist nomination and if
you think about something likedune 2, is there a lot of what
some people would perceive, youknow, as the traditional, you
know, female costume fantasysilhouette no, not really this
happens to be the category whereyou're going to nominate a lot
(06:23):
of disney princess outfits andhow you sort of realize them,
and there's a nominee this yearin the work of wicked right and
the work that goes into galindaright and that's going to be an
element that really calls theirattention right but sort of
these other types of costumescan sometimes sort of be
overshadowed by those, and so itmight be an element of that,
but I don't think that she's asure thing to show up right, so
(06:45):
exactly.
Jules (06:45):
So I don't consider it a sure thing.
Um, I would say the only twofilms in this category that feel
pretty secure to me are wicked,and especially nasferatu, which
differs from other categorieslike makeup, which will get into
a second, and production design.
I feel pretty sure it's goingto get nominated here in costume
design.
(07:06):
The costume work there reallystands out.
It'll be her first nomination,even though she works with
robert eckers often, um, and Ithink that, uh, that's a film
that they're going to respond tothis branch.
Um, the costume work is verydetailed.
Um, that fits the piece really,really beautifully.
So I find those to be the twolocks.
Joseph (07:27):
Everyone else is sort of you know, not sure she's very
interesting, the costumedesigner linda muir for nas, for
rot too, in the sense thatshe's been working for a long
while and she just as you said,accomplished that guild
nomination and I think that'squite a feat for her and I think
it is foreshadowing thatnomination at the guilds and
that nomination at BAFTA thatthey're going to embrace her
(07:49):
work for the first time at theacademy right so I agree with
you.
I think that's in in very youknow, very likely territory,
even though, again, she'scertainly not any type of
perennial favorite.
It would be her firstnomination, right.
The other individual that a lotof people are pegging for this
award in the consensus more orless, is someone like Liza
Kristol for a conclave, and it'ssort of interesting right.
(08:12):
Number one because, well, lizaKristol is a former nominee and
she was nominated for anonymousat the Academy.
But when she got thatnomination at the Academy, she
failed to get the nominationwith her own guild and that's
kind of strange.
Right, so sort of the Academywas ahead of her in that sense.
But another reason why peopleare pegging her for that
(08:33):
nomination is because a lot ofpeople had her down to get that
nomination in 2022 with her workon All Quiet on the Western
Front.
They had figured that becauseshe was a former nominee, she
would be able to get thatnomination for all quiet again
another very masculine space,right where she was not
nominated for the guild yetagain.
Um, she was nominated at baftaand so people had pegged her to
(08:56):
get that nomination, but itfailed to get that nomination,
possibly because some of thedesigners sort of thought that
her work sort of melded sofluidly into the production
design that maybe there was onlyneed to nominate the production
design and the cinematographyand the costumes could wait, but
technically you would thinkthat a film that gets
cinematography, production,design, makeup would certainly
(09:17):
lead into costume.
At the same time, you have tokeep into account that of all
those teams, she's the only onewith a nomination at that point.
And when she gets thatnomination, she still doesn't
even have her first guildnomination.
Jules (09:30):
Right right.
Joseph (09:31):
And so something going against this piece is that it is
a contemporary piece, which isagain something that costume
designers do not rush tonominate.
You have to think of thingslike again, la La Land with Mary
Sophries, the Devil.
The devil wears prada, which isabout fashion, and so that's
something working againstconclave and costume design as
well as production design.
Jules (09:50):
Right also, as you were saying the point about, they're
not a lot of women in that filmand so it's a very masculine
space another masculine space, alot of dressing men right in
particular which is sort ofinteresting, right, because it's
a very masculine space, butit's also a very intricately
fashion space.
Joseph (10:07):
And you can, you know, make of that whatever you will,
but it's kind of interesting tosee this masculine space that
has all this I don't know detailand beading and color we could
talk about that for days, but Ithink that that helps that.
You know, it's possibly themost again interesting, colorful
yeah you know, detail-oriented,overt, I would say, masking
(10:32):
space available compared tosomething like the revenant or
something like or somethingquiet or oppenheimer or even
something like oppenheimer,which last year was dressing a
lot of men exactlythey did get in and she did get
in for the first time and shehas famously never been
nominated, but the film was justenough of a best picture
contender.
But that was a period piece,right.
But I think what really bodeswell for lisa crystal getting
(10:52):
her second oscar nomination isthat she was finally invited to
her guild with her with theguild nomination.
It was her first guildnomination, which is a big
accomplishment yeah and shecould possibly even win that
category.
So I think all signs arepointing to her finally getting
that second nomination.
And, you know, maybe we talkabout symmetrical years maybe
(11:12):
this is the year where conclaveis able to manage edward
berger's first nomination intocostume with lisa cristo who's
been there, and maybe they'llfail to get that nomination for
production design, because hegot that with aqua in the
western front, possibly.
Jules (11:25):
So that's a possibility, right, possibly.
And uh, on the note of peoplewho, uh, artists who were
nominated last year gladiator 2was a nominee last year for um,
napoleon right team wasnominated last year for nap for
Napoleon, and so that's onereason why I'm really skeptical
(11:47):
about them getting anothernomination back to back for
Gladiator 2.
I personally don't think it'sgoing to happen.
Maybe if Napoleon hadn't beenthere, I think it would have a
better shot.
What do you think?
Joseph (12:00):
Well, I agree with you.
I think that that nominationfor the costume designer of
Gladiator 2 with Napoleon isgoing to complicate her chances
this year.
This is something that we alsotalked about in production
design is sort of workingagainst Arthur Max in the
production design category.
They got nominated as a pairlast year, but the costume
(12:21):
designer specifically has onlyever been nominated beforehand
for gladiator, and so she wasfinally able to get that second
nomination at the academy forsomething like napoleon.
You have to wonder if they are.
So they have so much urgency tonominate her for a third
straight away, right?
She doesn't have as as noted asa name as some of her other
(12:42):
peers who have had third, fourth, fourth or fifth nominations
already, and so I do thinkthat's something working against
her.
But it does show that, in termsof someone like Lisa Crystal,
again, when the costume designerI think it's Ellen Miroshnik
and the costume designer ofGladiator 2, the costume
designers for Oppenheimer andfor Napoleon are finally able to
(13:03):
break in, I think it does showthat they're at a moment right
now, the costume designers wherethey're rethinking these
costume designers that they'veleft off the list for a long
time, or possibly for forever,and so they're really open to
giving Ellen her firstnomination for Oppenheimer it's
the best picture movie andthey're really open to giving
(13:24):
the costume designer of Napoleon, who is also a costume designer
of Gladiator 2, her secondnomination in X amount of years,
even if it's not a best picturemovie.
But I do think that somethingcomplicating her chances this
year is the idea that are theyready to not just nominate her a
second time for Napoleon, butthey're ready to nominate her
back to back for Napoleon andnow for Gladiator?
Jules (13:46):
too I agree.
Joseph (13:47):
I also think again, it's yet another really masculine
space and I feel like now we'regetting into an area where maybe
the category is just toomasculine.
Yeah, I agree, right, and thatshould definitely be a red flag
to people.
Jules (13:58):
Right and Blitz got the BAFTA nomination.
I don't think right now it'sstrong enough to get nominated
into this lineup.
What about you?
Joseph (14:06):
Well, I think it's interesting that it was able to
pull off that BAFTA nominationbecause it got so few others
right.
It would have been interestingto see if it had gotten costume
design and production design.
But, even if it got costumedesign.
It makes you wonder if, again,the idea of it being too much of
a masculine space is sort ofpopping its head, rearing its
head, and we want to be able to,you know, design costumes for
(14:29):
women as well.
So I do think it's interesting.
Jacqueline Duran if she were toget nominated for this, it
would be her 10th nomination,and so there would be something
very interesting about that.
She has been someone capable ofgetting a nomination for her
work as the only thing her filmis nominated for remember Cyrano
yeah, um, I don't think it's adone deal.
(14:50):
I think that BAFTA nominationcertainly presents her as a dark
horse, but let's talk about hercollaborator on Cyrano, who got
a nomination alongside with her, who's eligible this year for
his work in Maria right andthat's uh, massimo.
And so what do you think aboutmaria possibly making it into
this list?
I mean, we're talking aboutvery little female energy that
this category requires.
Jules (15:11):
I like the.
I like that we're costumingwomen particularly callous.
Um, I am interested in that.
It was nominated for its guildand I think initially I thought
it stood a really good chance towin its category in the guild
the costume designers guild, um,and by winning its category I
(15:32):
think it would make it a shoe into get nominated.
That being said, someone wasreally left out of that category
.
Uh, that was surprising, was acomplete unknown.
Maybe they would have won hadthey been in that category.
And now, as the buzz for mariahas really died down a lot
following the the sort of dyingdown of angelina jolie's chances
, as we had pointed out earlierin our podcast, um, before those
(15:56):
snubs started to occur I feelthat it's become harder to see
that film winning that categoryin that guild and more likely,
possibly something likeNosferatu winning that category.
So right now I don't think thatI see Maria having enough of a
chance to break in here.
Joseph (16:14):
It's interesting.
I mean it sort of brings usinto another major contender,
which is A Complete Unknown, asyou had mentioned.
So, we talked about needingthat female energy and maria
fits that to a t but we're alsogoing to need some real energy,
some energy of somethinghistorical or biographical right
maria certainly fits that to at, but so does a complete
(16:35):
unknown, and a complete unknownwas able to get that bafta right
and so there's sort of thissymmetry going on right between
maria and a complete exactly,yeah they're sort of you know,
crossing each other in terms ofwhat they're trying to campaign
on or or distinguish themselveson.
And so maria gets its guildnomination for period right and
is, uh, costuming real people,and then a complete unknown gets
(16:57):
the bafta nomination for, again, costuming real people.
Both costume designers havebeen nominated before.
Jules (17:03):
Arian phil is probably a little bit more and,
interestingly enough, arian philwas nominated with her last
collaboration with mangled withjames mangled for walk the line.
Yeah, so there's a symmetrythere, right?
Um, and she was not nominatedat the bafta for walk the line.
Oh wow, yeah, I'm pretty sure.
Don't call me, but I'm almostpretty sure that she was not.
Joseph (17:23):
Oh, that's very interesting and so, yes, she was
snubbed from her guild.
Possibly that was because theydid not have an opportunity to
see it.
Some of those earlier announcingguilds including costumes and
film editors, did not list thecomplete unknown, but since it's
gained so much steam, one canonly assume that maybe they
weren't as widely viewed by thatpoint when the guild announced.
(17:45):
But there's been this idea thatthere have been films to show
up late or to get snubbed by thecostume designers guild that
are able to sort of muster likea bafta bounce back after they
get a bafta nomination, and soI'm thinking of someone like
jacqueline duron, who gotsnubbed by her guild for Little
Women in 2019.
(18:05):
But she was able to get a BAFTAnomination for her work on
Little Women.
And that led to an Oscarnomination and then an Oscar win
, right?
So the lack of a guildnomination for a complete
unknown?
Jules (18:17):
is not a death sentence Exactly.
Joseph (18:19):
Someone else to do it is someone like Sandy Powell for
the Irishman, and someone likeMary Zoffries, I believe, for
Ballad of Buster Scruggs.
It's important that all of themare former nominees.
But Arianne Phillips is aformer nominee, so she's in a
perfect position to sort of takethat BAFTA nomination and
translate that into an Oscarnomination 100% I agree, and it
(18:40):
would really help us sort offulfill that requirement of
having a sort of historicalbiographical film within here.
Jules (18:46):
Right, I agree.
I know another contender,possibly Beetlejuice.
Beetlejuice got a CostumeDesigners Guild nomination.
I'm not seeing it so much forthat film.
Same thing with Furiosa.
I think Furiosa should be onthis list, but is not going to
be on this list.
Furiosa, I think Furiosa shouldbe on this list but is not
(19:08):
going to be on this list.
Purphree Contenders theSubstance yeah, a bunch of
Purphree Contenders, but I feellike that's the main.
Those are the main.
That's the main group.
What do you think?
Joseph (19:17):
Well, I think that I agree.
I think you have Colleen Atwoodin Beetlejuice, beetlejuice and
Tim Burton, of course, afavorite in costume design.
Is there enough work there?
I think that ever since ColleenAtwood won an Oscar for one of
the fantastic creatures, filmsBetty.
Redmayne.
I think she sort of has beensort of left out of this list
(19:37):
because she has now beenrewarded so abundantly.
But her work is always greatand Tim Burton's always going to
be something that costumedesigners check out.
As same thing for jenny beavenand furiosa, which I 100 agree
with you should be on there.
Fantastic work again.
So well rewarded.
Nominations for miss harrisgoes to paris, nomination for
cruella and a win for cruellaand mad max, so she's just been
(20:00):
so abundantly rewarded.
Both those films, I think, wouldhave needed their production
designers alongside with them togo the distance in terms of
securing a nomination.
Um, you bring up something likethe substance, which I'm afraid
is just too contemporary, muchlike amelia perez.
Both those films well done, butare going to be left out of
production designers and costumedesigners.
(20:21):
But there is one title that isa period piece that you would
think maybe could figure in here, because the category is a
little bit thin, but I don'tknow.
What are your thoughts aboutsomething like the brutalist
crashing this list?
Jules (20:35):
you know, I'm not, I'm, I'm not sure I see the brutalist
making it into this list.
Um, for some reason in thatfilm, possibly because there's
so much attention being put toother aspects of that film, but
the costume designing, although,uh, fitting the period, uh,
more than well.
(20:55):
Um, wasn't the thing, wasn't aa technical element that I
walked away, that I walked awaywith.
What about about you?
Joseph (21:04):
I would agree, and I think, more importantly, the
filmography of the costumedesigner is a little bit, uh,
thinner or behind compared tothe other contenders in this
category, and I think that'sreally the most difficult thing,
maybe if it was a costumedesigner like Linda Muir who's?
Been doing it a little bitlonger, she'd have a little bit
more of an edge.
But, as we said, it a littlebit longer, she'd have a little
(21:26):
bit more of an edge.
Jules (21:26):
But, as we said, you know , costume designers are going to
look at those films that arelisted for cinematography and
production design.
Joseph (21:32):
The brutalist is going to be one of those right?
Um, it's also a period piece,but it also reminds you of
something like uh, everythingeverywhere all at once, in the
sense that no one was reallyexpecting it to show up there,
but it's able to show up therebecause it is a major contender,
and it's not in cinematography,it's not in production design,
it's not in makeup, but it is ahuge best picture movie.
Jules (21:50):
Right.
Joseph (21:50):
And it is an eclectic sort of display of costume work.
Jules (21:54):
Right.
Joseph (21:54):
But it also brings me up to that idea that you know we
do not have a short list forcostume design.
But maybe the next best thingwe can do is look at the BAFTA
long list and look at the guildnominations to sort of narrow
down who we think can sort offill out this field If we feel
like maybe we have a little toomuch masculine energy or we
don't have enough biographicalmaterial.
(22:15):
If you look at the BAFTA longlist, the BAFTA nominees in and
of themselves I think they endup showing maybe three to four
nominees sort of go from beingBAFTA nominees to Oscar nominees
.
But if you look at the longlist from BAFTA ever since
they've been published, you'llfind even more sort of overlap,
and so there you can sort ofmaybe get four to possibly five
(22:38):
nominees that are going to be atthe Oscars.
And if that's the case again,the BAFTA nominees this year
were Blitz, jacqueline Duran AComplete Unknown Arianne
Phillips, conclave, nosferatuand Wicked and a lot of those
sound good, but the movies thatcame up short that maybe could
reveal who can spoil any one ofthose films is Dune II with
(23:00):
Jacqueline West, um with shakiniwest.
Previous nominee beetlejuice,beetlejuice, emilia perez
furiosa and gladiator 2.
I will say so not even thebrutalist, not even the
brutalist right.
Um, but again, the back to longlist did not have everything
everywhere all at once nor didthey have a film from massimo,
which was pinocchio, right,right, um.
(23:21):
So I do think they're not goingto be perfect.
They don't have to be perfect.
Maybe there's a dark horse herethat we're not even too aware of
, but I do think that it'sinteresting that the BAFTA
nominees, four of them areveterans and you have one newbie
, nosferatu and Linda Muir lookspretty secure to get that
nomination, and of the five thatwere left out, the only newbie
(23:44):
is Emilia Perez, and I thinkthat it's far off from a
nomination, but any one of thoseveterans can steal a spot,
whether it's Dune II,Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice,
Furiosa Gladiator 2.
Jules (23:57):
If you had to choose one.
Which one do you like?
Joseph (23:58):
the most to steal a spot .
Dune 2, for sure.
Dune 2, jacqueline West I wouldagree with that.
And if we look at the guild forthe costume designers, you have
Imperium.
You have the Book of Clarence,which was one of my favorite
films of the year, which wasabsolutely fantastic.
I'd love to see this nomination.
You have Maria Gliator 2, nasfor rottu and saturday night
saturday night from dannyglicker.
He's a former nominee too, andthis is again, interestingly
(24:19):
enough, another one of thosehistorical biographical elements
that the category could reallyuse.
Yeah, um, and so people arepegging from there really only
nas for rottu and some peoplegladiator too, but we've sort of
said that that doesn't soundthat great.
Right, a back-to-backnomination, but from period,
traditionally you would seethree to four films nominated,
(24:39):
and right now, how many are youpegging from there?
I believe you're only peggingone Nosferatu.
Jules (24:44):
Yeah, you know, that's true.
I only have Nosferatu right now.
Joseph (24:47):
That technically is a little bit off?
I don't think it's impossible,but it's a little bit off.
They do have some off years.
Maybe this is one of those.
Like I said, maybe they justdid not see a complete unknown
with enough time and for somereason, both the designers for
costumes and productiondesigners did not like Blitz for
this category.
Jules (25:07):
Are they average?
Three or two to three?
Three to four, three to fourreally, so not even two.
Joseph (25:11):
Not even two, but it is possible.
I think something like in 2016,when you had Jackie and
Florence Foster Jenkins I thinkthose might have been the only
two, because I think Allied wassnubbed and then you had La La
Land, which is a contemporarypiece, and so it does.
It can happen, but it's notwhat usually happens.
You should be looking for threeto four, and then on the
(25:32):
fantasy side is where you shouldbe looking for one to two.
Right, and the fantasy nomineeswere wicked, which seems like a
no-brainer beetlejuice.
Beetlejuice.
Borderlands is far away,furiosa is far away, but dune 2
looks pretty good, so you cantake two from there as well.
Um, the only problem is thatright now, you're just taking
one from period instead oftaking both nosferatu and maria,
for example right um.
(25:53):
And then you have contemporary,which is emilia perez.
The substance fall guy,challengers and conclave, and
most people, including yourself,are pegging for conclave to get
in but again, not an easy thingto do to be a contemporary film
and get one of those spots.
I mean we're pegging that lisacrystal between her first guild
nomination and get the spothaving been snubbed for aqua on
(26:15):
the and concrete being such abig, being such a big contender
possibly being there incinematography and production
design, that that's going to bethe winning uh recipe or formula
for her to get in.
Um, there should definitely besome overlap between costume
design and makeup, and so if welook at the makeup shortlist for
the academy and we maybe, youknow, sort of cross out some of
(26:36):
those titles that are going tohave a very difficult time
making a dent here because ofthe nature of the film or that
they're very contemporary pieces.
We can take away, for example,emilia perez and the substance,
but we can also almost assuredlytake away the apprentice, a
different man right waltzingwith brando.
We just have a handful of titlesthat are sort of wrestling for
what should be, on average, twomovies to show up in makeup and
(27:00):
costume.
Now, it can go as little as one, although most of the time it's
two, and it's even gone as highas four, and maybe that's the
kind of year we're in.
I'll tell you what the titlesare now, but in 2020, it went
all the way up to four.
Granted, it was a pandemic year,so you have to, you know, put
an asterisk next to that, butthe titles would be wicked,
which looks really good for itand as far out, to which we're
(27:22):
pegging for it.
And then there's beetlejuice,beetlejuice dune and maria right
right and so not very often dothey get three.
So if we're sort of saying thatwicked and as far out to other
films to sort of bridge makeupand costume, then maybe we are
going to see dune be a makeupnominee and not a costume
(27:43):
nominee, even though that's notwhat I'm thinking right now
right.
Jules (27:46):
I think that's a really good point.
On that note, I think my finalpredictions for costume design
are going to be wicked, and us,for our two, I'm going to go
with conclave, for sure.
I'm going to go with a completeunknown and for that last spot,
I think I'm going to go withdune part two I think that's
(28:11):
five for five what I'm pegging.
Joseph (28:13):
Wicked seems like a lock nos for raw team seems like
it's going to happen.
Conclave should beat the Curseof the Contemporary.
And then I really do think thatthe BAFTA bounce back is a
thing and that Arian Phillipswill be able to ride that into a
nomination for a completeunknown.
And finally, I'm not sure I seeanyone that is compelling
enough to knock off Dune Part 2.
(28:33):
And maybe this is just a yearwhere we're going to have more
than two nominees, both inmakeup and in costume.
Or maybe, just maybe, makeup isso competitive with
contemporary titles that wemight see a couple of perceived
favorites like Wicked orNosferatu maybe not make that
list.
Jules (28:51):
Right, right.
I completely agree.
Joseph (28:53):
And so if you had to pick a spoiler for those five,
who would you pick right now?
Jules (28:57):
as a spoiler, I think I'd go.
Joseph (28:58):
I'd go, blitz yeah, I think blitz might make a lot of
sense.
I think maria is right thereyeah but it's such a limited,
you know, wardrobe in the sensethat it takes place over a very
few number of days and also verylimited cast of characters.
It's hard for me to think thatjacqueline Duran could not get
in for her excellent costumingin Pablo Larraín Spencer right
(29:21):
but Massimo is going to be ableto get in for the costuming in
Maria right so I think I wouldgo with Blitz too okay, and
that's our dive into our finalpredictions for costume design.
Let's take a look at thecategory of best makeup and
hairstyling, and we have a shortlist there, or a long list, I
should say, to help us sort ofnarrow down this field.
(29:43):
It's already incrediblynarrowed down.
Keep in mind that this categoryis usually determined by
bake-off, something like thevisual effects category is, and
the visual effects branch thewildfires might have complicated
that issue, so I don't knowwhat impact that might have.
Let's start digging into some ofthese semi-finalists, um, and
(30:05):
some of them look really goodand very promising, and I'm just
going to run through them allbecause I do think this is a
category where there's maybesome false confidence in people
in terms of how it's going toend up.
So let's start with thesubstance.
Right, which is a best picturefavorite?
Um, one of the few ones on thislist.
You know it's a genre film.
(30:27):
Yeah, I think this.
Jules (30:29):
I think that film is locked for this nomination I
think it looks pretty good for alock.
Joseph (30:34):
I think the Achilles heel here is that the team is
not really well known, I think,to the Academy, so that's
something to look out for ifsomething happens there, I mean.
The other thing is genre bias.
This would be.
This is certainly pushing thegenre envelope for traditional
Academy of voters, even in amakeup branch.
When you see a movie likeanything from david cronenberg,
(30:55):
shortlisted or long listed inthis category, I should say it's
not very often that the davidcronenberg film ends up with a
nomination.
The popularity, the substance,could prove the difference maker
, but that's just something tobe aware of right then there's
wicked right, which has to be abig favorite here, like
blockbuster, musical, um, a lotof the sort of background hair
work that's going on, but Iimagine a lot of it is also the
(31:15):
makeup work done on cynthia revoright.
It's going to be the bigcalling card for the film.
And then there's nasferatu,which is interesting because
this is one sort of categorythat really does welcome the
sort of classic monster monstermovies of the past and nasferatu
, of course, has its origin inthe early silent film, and so
(31:35):
that's going to be somethingthat, traditionally, the branch
would be very excited for, youknow the character of dracula
has been on here multiple times,right, so that's something to
look out for.
Then you have something likebeetlejuice.
Beetlejuice, right, which hasto be a favorite tim burden in
this category, has doneextraordinarily well.
The first beetlejuice, anominee, a winner.
It has qualified once again.
(31:56):
A couple of interesting thingsthere.
Um, dune part two isshortlisted here, uh, which is
interesting in the sense that itlost this award, one of the few
losses it had in 2021, when itlost to tammy faye.
Jules (32:09):
I thought that was a controversial loss and the very
interesting thing is that it gotsnubbed from the makeup, makeup
and hairstylist guild.
Joseph (32:16):
Right, and we're going to start cross-referencing these
films with the films thatactually got spotlighted there.
But to finish running down thelist, you also have A Different
man, which is terribly, terriblyedgy, I would say, for what the
Academy would go for.
But you do see some, like Isaid, david Cornerbrook films
show up here, so I'm notsurprised to see it on the long
list, right, but certainly, asyou start talking about certain
(32:40):
vulnerabilities in films andcampaigns, there's something
kind of interesting going onwith a different man in the
sense that, well, first of allit's sort of a genre piece.
It's certainly an independentfilm, a very idiosyncratic film
right right at the same, it'sdoing this amazing sort of
makeup job on Sebastian Stan,who won a Golden Globe for his
(33:02):
performance here, but you kindof lose the makeup work maybe
halfway into the movie right,which is possibly a
vulnerability here.
And the other aspect is, youknow, as sebastian stan said,
there is some part of this filmthat is tackling this element of
disfigurement right and we'veseen that play out well for this
(33:26):
branch in films, for example,like wonder and films like mask.
And the problem here is thatthis movie is much more
challenging.
Possibly it's not based on atrue story or anything, but it
is taboo, pushing in the best ofways.
I really love the film, one ofmy favorite films of the year.
Jules (33:47):
Yeah, I really like that film as well.
Including a different man herein this category is very
interesting because obviouslythe film is dealing with
characters that are strugglingwith neurofibromatosis and
that's not something that yousee often portrayed in film and
recognized in this category, andthere's very distinct work
(34:11):
being done in sort of the facialdisfigurement of Sebastian
Stan's character, and I justthink it's a very interesting
aspect, dynamic, that doesn'toften get included into this
category, that I think theywould like to spotlight.
Joseph (34:28):
That's possible.
I do wonder if there's going tobe part of them that are
probably would rather avoid it.
I do think it maybe brings upsome interesting questions as to
you know, what we get, what'spossible with makeup.
I certainly think it's the kindof film where had it been in
the bake-off it would have beensuch a striking inclusion on the
(34:48):
list right, and the work, howhe was able to accomplish the
makeup work would have been veryattention calling.
It would have been somethingvery boundary pushing and
possibly very exciting formembers to see.
But since we're unsure as towhat part the Bake Off played in
the process, you know the moviein and of itself could sort of
(35:09):
get lost among these bigger,more notable titles.
Another movie to talk about isEmilia perez, and that should be
a favorite for so manycategories it's included here.
This is maybe one of the fewcategories where it should not
be a favorite right that said,it did get a surprising
nomination at bafta and we'lldig into those nominees in a
little bit um.
And then the final threeinclusions on this list I think
(35:32):
were surprising to a lot ofpeople and I think they've also
been possibly unfairly sort ofdismissed as contenders in this
category and that's maria withangie and julie the apprentice
with sebastian stan againsebastian stan, sort of being
the man of a thousand faces thisyear, which is great.
Uh, two wonderful films, twowonderful makeup jobs, and then
(35:54):
you have waltzing with brando,which was really sort of left
field choice, but really nice tosee also well, it makes sense
also also.
It really does.
It really does, and it lookslike they did a one hell of a
makeup job there.
Jules (36:06):
I haven't seen the film yet I don't know when it's going
to be distributed but itcertainly looks like a great
makeup job again.
Joseph (36:11):
That bake off, I think, might have been the difference
maker for some of these filmsyeah um, keep in mind that when
it comes to makeup, they'renominating the team, and so I do
think we're going to see inthis category a couple of new
individuals, new uh nominees,but we are going to see a
substantial amount, I think, ofprevious nominees and I think
it's worth breaking down.
(36:32):
You know where they all standin that regard.
So we have the substance right,which I think is, as you said,
one of the locks in thiscategory.
But no one on that team hasbeen nominated for an Oscar
before.
A lot of international, I think, artisans on that team, as is
it's sort of sister projectbecause, again, it's sort of a
French film, sort of not aFrench film.
(36:53):
The substance is sort of aFrench film, sort of a British
film, sort of not a French film.
The Substance is sort of aFrench film, sort of a British
film, sort of an American film.
Amelia Perez is sort of aMexican film, a French film shot
in Australia, spanish actors,so it's sister sort of project.
Amelia Perez from Cannes.
Also, its team doesn't have anyindividuals who were nominated
previously.
So I think that's kind ofinteresting.
And then, of course, theWaltzing with Brando team has
(37:14):
not been nominated either for anOscar, although I do think
there are some people who havesome pretty steep credits when
it comes to something like Emmys.
So that's interesting.
And then, if you look at someonelike Wicked, who's also kind of
a favorite here, there's reallyonly one individual on its team
who has reaped one nominationand a win for that nomination.
Then you have the team of theApprentice, which also has one
(37:36):
nomination between them, I think, on the hair side.
At the same time, the filmmaker, the director, ali Abassi, has
gotten other films nominatedhere, I think Border in 2018.
So I think the branch isfamiliar with his type of work.
Then you have, for example,speaking of Sebastian Stan.
You have A Different man ofsebastian stan.
You have a different man and,uh, the prosthetics designer, I
(37:58):
believe, there has twonominations to his filmography.
You have the nasferatu team, Ithink has an individual of two
nominations to their filmography, and you have the beetlejuice
beetlejuice team right, which Ithink has a couple of people,
one with a win and a nomination,I believe.
And then it's kind ofinteresting because it listed
among beetlejuice's team right,which I think has a couple of
people one with a win and anomination, I believe and then
it's kind of interesting becauseit listed among Beetlejuice's
(38:20):
credits for makeup is NeilScanlon, who famously has a
bunch of accolades from theAcademy on the visual effects
side.
So I think Warner Brothers andthe team of Beetlejuice really
wants to highlight the specialeffects makeup work on the film.
I don't know if that's going tobe an element that is a turn on
(38:41):
to voters or a turn off tovoters.
What I do know is that there arenot very many visual effects,
special effects artists who havebeen nominated for both visual
effects and for makeup.
Yeah, and so neil scanlontrying to sort of be nominated
in the makeup category.
That could be interesting,something that excites them, or
(39:02):
it could also be something thatthey would rather just nominate
strictly hair and makeup peopleand prosthetics people, right,
um.
So it'll be interesting to seeif that nomination does come
into fruition, if maybe thatsort of special makeup effects
element that it has is whathelped it get to the finish line
and then, surprisingly, one ofthe most experienced and awarded
(39:24):
makeup teams is actually theteam of maria right, yeah which
has multiple individuals withnominations I think possibly
three or four of them, and somewith a couple of nominations,
and there again is a film thatmost people have dismissed up to
this point Right.
Jules (39:37):
Right.
And something that I findreally interesting about Maria
is that our experience watchingthat film the first time several
months ago at a festival wasthat the audience around us had
a little bit of a hard timefeeling like Angelina Jolie
looked like Maria Callas, right,and even though I thought the
(39:59):
makeup work was well done inthat film, I think the film ends
with in the credits you havefootage from Maria Callas and
when you see her and you've justseen the film it doesn't help.
It doesn't help in that, youknow, even though the makeup
work is well done, angelinaJolie doesn't look very much
(40:21):
like Maria Callas, unlike, youknow, kristen Stewart, who had a
very eerie resemblance toPrincess Diana in her film.
Joseph (40:29):
Right.
Jules (40:29):
So I think that's something that goes against the
movie, despite having thesedecorated artisans and several
nominations between them.
I think that's one reason whythat film hasn't caught fire in
that category.
Joseph (40:42):
Is it transformative enough?
I think is the question thatwe're posing here.
Is the work on Angelina Jolieas Maria Callas transformative
enough or is it justcomplementing Angelina Jolie's
sort of presence?
Jules (40:55):
It is good work and I do think it's solid work.
Joseph (40:57):
Yes, it's up to the academy to decide if it was
transformative enough it doeshave a couple of things going
for it, but let's talk about,for example, as you start to
narrow this list down.
Let's talk about who got intothe guild right, and I think
that's a very good place tostart, because the guild has
sort of shown who the nomineesare going to be, except for
maybe a handful of titles, andthose handful of titles recently
(41:20):
.
They have something in commonand that's, I believe, a couple
of films that got blanked.
There, as you say, is all quieton the western front and
society of the snow right, um,one of them, I think, would end
up winning the oscar right.
But both those films that gotleft out are international
productions, foreign productions, productions from another
country.
That's probably an element asto why they did not get in.
(41:45):
But the other nominees, in eachyear respectively, were
highlighted at the Guild.
So the other thing I would sayis, if you go back a little
further, you're going to seemaybe a couple of American
titles miss the Guild.
So the other thing I would sayis, if you go back a little
further, you're going to seemaybe a couple of American
titles miss the Guild Award andstill manage to get an Oscar
nomination, but they're, for themost part going to be able to
(42:06):
get a BAFTA bounce back, whichmeans they'll be nominated at
BAFTA for the makeup categoryand be able to sort of use that
to catapult them into the finalfive for the academy.
But if we look at the guild'snominees this year, I think
there are certain categories inthe guild that are more
important.
So there's contemporary workfor makeup and contemporary work
(42:27):
for hair.
Then there's period andcharacter work for makeup and
period and character work forhair and then there's the more
special effects prostheticsection.
The absolute best place to be at, from my experience and what
I've observed, is in the specialeffects prosthetic section.
That's really where a lot ofthe chewiness is found for
(42:48):
voters.
And so this year, among thenominees that are eligible for
the Oscar, you'll find theSubstance Beetlejuice,
beetlejuice and A Different man.
So those are really, you know,scene-stealing sort of
prosthetics works and prostheticdesigns that are going into the
film and sort of what thebake-off would really sort of
(43:09):
show off.
Jules (43:09):
Yeah, highlight.
Joseph (43:11):
So it's great to have all three of those films there.
I think that's a huge advantagefor all of them.
I do think that of genredominance here you know a lot of
horror, horror comedy and evensome sort of independent horror
element, with a different manmaybe.
So I do wonder if that's goingto play a factor into the voting
(43:34):
branch saying you know, I wanta different style of film.
And then in some of the othercategories you'll see, for
example, emilia Perez and theSubstance again listed for
contemporary makeup.
They're contemporary films, notthe best category to be in, but
it's again really important tobe mentioned here.
And then you'll see Beetlejuice, beetlejuice and Wicked
nominated for the first time inthe period and character makeup
(43:57):
section.
So Wicked did not make theprosthetic section and Amelia
Perez did not make theprosthetic section, but at least
they're being nominated.
A different man made theprosthetic section, the effects
section and nothing else.
But so we basically have hereis about five nominees.
I believe that the guild reallythrew their weight behind, and
so that would be the substanceEmilia Perez, beetlejuice,
(44:21):
beetlejuice, wicked and ADifferent man.
And that is not a necessarilybad place to start formulating
what your final five should moreor less look like there was one
title that was completelysnubbed from the guild, which
called a lot of people'sattention because it's period
work, it's genre work, it's thesort of genre work they've
(44:42):
recognized in the past, andthat's Nosferatu.
Jules (44:44):
Yeah, I'm feeling like that could be an indicative snub
.
Joseph (44:48):
And then the other really big sort of snubbing that
the Guild did was Dune Part 2,with no nominations there.
Jules (44:55):
Yeah, that one was the most shocking.
Joseph (44:56):
I think that was really surprising, because some people
were excusing the Nosferatu snubas possibly they hadn't had an
opportunity to see it.
Nosferatu snub, as possiblythey hadn't had an opportunity
to see it, whereas it's verydifficult to think of a valid
reason or a very good reason asto why they would leave out Dune
2 other than, as you'vementioned before, in other
episodes.
I've seen it, I've rewarded itand that's enough.
Jules (45:19):
But there's also an important point to note here,
and it's that the submission ofDune and the makeup category
this year for the Oscars is abit different, because they only
submitted the work of a fewartists as opposed to the
entirety of the film, that mighthave an effect on whether the
film gets nominated or not.
Joseph (45:37):
in this category, you're right, that may be a factor at
the end.
I will say I didn't mention it,but those two individuals
submitted for Dune Part 2, theyare three-time nominees and
they've yet to win, and I don'tknow if that's an argument for
them getting nominated or anargument, as you've said,
against them being nominatedright, in the sense that the
team which I think would, Iwould imagine, is more expansive
(45:57):
, has been sort of whittled downto just two individuals.
Right, but what's good for boththose movies is that they had
what we like to call a BAFTAbounce back.
Right, because the BAFTAshortlisted five films and their
five films included what somepeople are calling locks, the
Substance Wicked, and then theyhad Amelia Perez and they
finally included Dune Part Twoand Nosferatu, and so the films
(46:20):
not to make it onto there were.
Jules (46:22):
Beetlejuice.
Joseph (46:23):
Beetlejuice, beetlejuice and A Different man.
Now, if you analyze the BAFTA,you kind of realize that over
the last couple of years theBAFTA nominees for makeup have
been pretty good.
They've been averaging aroundfour of those films nominated
for BAFTA makeup crossing overand being Academy Award nominees
for makeup, which I think is avery good streak and a very high
(46:46):
rate of crossover.
So it's interesting to seeBAFTA's five compared to the
five more dominant titles at theGuild.
And the other reallyinteresting thing about BAFTA is
that there is a long list andso, because there is a long list
, you get to see the other filmsthat were not nominated.
Of the titles that were notnominated, the only two eligible
(47:08):
films for the Oscars that madethe Oscar long list are
Beetlejuice.
Beetlejuice, which wasnominated a bunch of times at
the Guild Award, and theApprentice, which was not
nominated at all at the GuildAward.
But there's somethinginteresting about the apprentice
and the fact that somethingthat this category is missing
and we talk about all the timeis that we're going to need some
(47:29):
real people, some historical orbiographical people in this
category.
And you know, a film like acomplete unknown, which is a
favorite for so many oscars,didn't qualify here right and so
that's a trend that, if youexamine over the years and we'll
talk about it in a minute sortof it becomes apparent that the
bafta five have a hole in thembecause they don't really have a
lot of historical biographicalmaterial there, and the Guild 5
(47:54):
also have sort of a hole in thembecause they don't have any of
that either, and the AcademyAward category has been really
pro, including at least one filmthat has that element to it.
Now here's the good news thebafta long list as it's been
published over these last fewyears, it actually has had every
(48:15):
single makeup nominee at theacademy except society of the
snow, and society the snow, Ithink, ends up being nominated
because not only is it doingkind of a unique sort of weather
effect, on the skin and on theindividuals and that sort of
really stood out from the othercontenders.
But also it was highlighted atthe european film awards, much
(48:37):
like all quiet on the westernfront was the year before, and
part of its team were previousnominees for their work on Pan's
Labyrinth.
All that to say that thereisn't necessarily a film
positioned in the same way thisyear to sort of reap that
nomination.
There was no one reallyhighlighted at the European Film
Awards for makeup that's goingto be able to cross over or that
(49:00):
is eligible.
And the foreign film, theforeign language film that's
most prominent here is AmeliaPerez and that got guild
nominations anyway.
And no, none of these films arereally dealing with, you know,
that sort of element of, again,environmental changes on the
skin or environmental effects onthe skin, and so I'm not sure
(49:24):
that.
I'm pretty sure that we can saythat all the makeup nominees
are going to have come out ofBAFTA Right, which is bad news
for a bunch of films that didnot get nominated for BAFTA or
get shortlisted for BAFTA,including something like Maria
or something like Brando, butthat's a really positive sign
(49:45):
for something like theApprentice or Beetlejuice, if
the stat is to stand that BAFTAhas had all of the eventual
Academy Award nominees formakeup from their long list, all
except, again, just that onefilm, society of the Snow, and,
as we said, it's really unlikelythat a film is going to be able
to repeat that trajectory.
Then it sort of bodes well thatthe eventual makeup nominees
(50:08):
will come out of the five BAFTAnominees and either the
Apprentice or Beetlejuice, orboth usurping a couple of those
titles or one of those titles.
So BAFTA should have again it'sbeen averaging four nominees
out of their five nominees formakeup and the individual or the
film that's missing is usuallyagain in their long list.
(50:31):
So they should really have allfive, and right now I think
we're looking at seven titles.
So I don't know if you agreeand you would pick your five out
of those seven titles, or ifmaybe there is something that is
going to sneak in without bathto having spotlighted it, maybe
something like a different man.
I don't know.
What are you thinking?
Jules (50:50):
Right.
I mean, I think the biggestthing that gives me pause in
this category is that I wouldlike to include some real people
.
I think that's a trend.
That being said, the Makeup andHairstylist Guild actually
didn't include a lot of realpeople at all this year, and
that might be thedifferentiation between this
year and other years, when theydo include in the Guild real
(51:13):
life figures, and those reallife figures replicate again at
the Oscars.
So that could always happen.
I'm thinking right now that Ifeel really good about the
Substance and about Wicked, andI'm going to say that
Beetlejuice.
Beetlejuice has sort of thelegacy behind it and the
(51:33):
financial success and mentionsin the Guild for it to get in,
and Tim Burton does well in thiscategory.
I think A Different man is anopportunity to spotlight
something different in thiscategory.
I think the makeup artistswould be impressed by the work
in that film and it's somethingyou don't really see often in
(51:54):
this category.
I think that makes it stand out.
And, honestly, the last spot isa tough one because I'm torn
between Nosferatu, which I thinkis really good that it got the
BAFTA nomination, and again thesort of as you were saying
earlier in this episode, thatmonster figures tend to do well
in this category, and Nasferatuis a figure very well known in
(52:21):
that world and the Apprentice,which I think has fabulous work
done.
I think the hairstyling in thatfilm is terrific, the makeup is
very good, you see thecharacters in that film and you
really see and feel the peoplethat you've been seeing all
these years in torment, and sothe work there is just spot on
(52:45):
and terrific, and so I would notbe the least bit surprised to
see that film slide in here,possibly instead of Nosferatu,
or possibly, well, instead ofNosferatu, and you'd have the
inclusion of both Sebastian Stanfilms A Different man and the
Apprentice or Nosferatu does getin, and really it's one or the
(53:08):
other Sebastian Stanfilm, eithera different man or the
apprentice.
Right now I think the safestthing is to include Nassaratu.
I wish the apprentice had beennominated at the BAFTA.
The BAFTA has been, as you weresaying, on a streak of getting
about four right, and if Iinclude Beetlejuice, beetlejuice
and the apprentice, on a streakof getting about four right,
and if I include Beetlejuice,beetlejuice and the Apprentice,
(53:28):
they'd be only getting three.
So right now I'm tempted to gowith consensus of the Substance
Wicked, beetlejuice, a Differentman and Asmaratu, but I'm
really, really, really, reallyconcerned about the Apprentice.
I think that has a reallylegitimate shot of getting into
this category.
Joseph (53:45):
Well, here's some other patterns to sort of keep in mind
as you start finalizing yourlist.
I like your list, and one ofthe things that I like about it
is that you have potentially twocostume nominees there in
Nosferatu and Wicked and thereis some crossover significant
crossover between makeup andcostume design.
You'll see movies that wereshortlisted in costume at BAFTA,
for example, like Emma, crossedover into a makeup nomination
here, crossover between makeupand costume design.
You'll see movies that wereshortlisted in costume at BAFTA,
(54:06):
for example, like Emma, crossover into a makeup nomination
here.
Or movies that were shortlistedin or longlisted in makeup at
BAFTA, like Pinocchio in 2020,make it into costume in the
Academy Awards alongside makeup,and so there's this
relationship going on betweencostume and makeup, and so you
should have at least one title,and you have that, but on
(54:27):
average it's two, and that'sgood that you have wicked and
nosferatu there.
But the other thing to sort ofbe aware of is that this
category also has a lot to dowith performance, right there
are a lot of performances thatare aided by makeup, and makeup
artists are aware of that andthey highlight that, whether
it's something like 2019's jokeror 2019's judy, and so this
(54:47):
category tends to sort of favoror average about three
performances right nominated foran acting oscar that are also
nominated for makeup.
Right now on your list, youhave basically two films that
are favored for nominationsthere, which, which is Wicked
and the Substance, but you'rereally missing another film for
acting, unless possibly, theinclusion of a different man
(55:10):
here could spell a very good dayfor a Sebastian Stan and actor
for a different man.
Jules (55:16):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point.
You're right, that's a trendthat's really important to keep
in mind.
There should be some actors whoare getting nominated for
acting.
Their films show up on thislist.
You're absolutely right aboutthat.
Joseph (55:29):
Now you can also, as you said, swap out Sebastian Stan
films and put in the Apprenticeinstead of A Different man, and
maybe again that bodes well forSebastian Stan reaping a
nomination for the Apprenticeand Lead Actor, and you'll keep
that three acting overlap.
It's good to keep in mind thatthe last time that there was no
real person included in thiscategory was in the year 2016,
(55:52):
and that's when this categorywas limited to just three films.
so when there was three films in2016, there was no real person,
and in years like 2017 and 2018, there were still real people,
and since it's been expanded,it's always had real individuals
, and your list right nowdoesn't have any, not without
either the apprentice, maria orbrando in there, and that's a
(56:14):
very odd thing, and 2016 wasalso the last year that there
was really no overlap betweencostume and makeup, and so we
already talked about how yourlist does have those two films,
but I think it's just importantto say that when the list grows
from three to five, there'salmost always certainly costume
(56:34):
overlap and acting overlap.
Jules (56:37):
And it grows in 2019?
.
Joseph (56:39):
In 2019, it's expanded, but in 2016, when it was just
three nominees, had theyexpanded it, one would imagine
that a film like Florence FosterJenkins would have landed one
of those two spots.
And Florence Foster Jenkins, loand behold, was a nominee for
actress for Meryl Streep and anominee for costume design.
And so it just makes sense thatthere should be costume people
and acting people in thiscategory and real people.
(57:01):
Florence Foster Jenkins wouldhave forced that category to
include real people.
So I think it's important tokeep in mind that sort of
connection between all thoseelements.
And speaking to that, if yousort of examine the BAFTAs, I
think it's sort of similar andit sort of expands that idea
because, beyond the BAFTAs beinggreat at predicting the Oscar 5
(57:22):
nominees for makeup from their5 nominees for makeup at BAFTA,
besides them being great atpredicting the 5 Oscar nominees
based on the 10 movies longlisted for makeup at BAFTA,
beyond that again, thiscrossover between costume and
makeup, it tends to be that atleast two films that were
(57:45):
nominated for the BAFTA atcostume end up being Academy
Award nominees for makeup andthe only two films eligible this
year are actually Nosferatu andWicked.
So possibly those are two filmsthat are going to be very
difficult to snub, as opposed tothe other titles that did not
make a nomination at BAFTA forcostume design.
(58:07):
Right, and if you look at theguild, if you look at the guild,
then you sort of take awaythose two films that they didn't
get, which is all quiet on thewestern front and society, the
snow.
The guild does tend to have alot of those eventual nominees
and those real people included.
So, as you said, maybe thething this year is that there
isn't going to and those realpeople included.
So, as you said, maybe thething this year is that there
isn't going to be any realpeople because the guild did not
(58:29):
include them.
Right, I think that's apossibility, right?
So I think it's a trickycategory.
It's going to be a trickycategory to get right.
Jules (58:36):
Right.
Well, right now, what would yousay are your predicted final
five for this category?
Joseph (58:45):
I think, keeping all those things in mind, I like
BAFTA having four of the fivenominees for the Oscars, so I
would keep the Substance fromBAFTA as an Oscar nominee.
I would keep Nosferatu andWicked they have that costume
element from the BAFTA costumeand then the Guild totally
(59:06):
snubbed Dune 2, but I think theteam is good enough, the work is
good enough and the film ispopular enough and I think
everyone knows it famously lostthis category in 2021.
So I think they'll keep Dune 2.
And that's four of my BAFTApeople, four people from BAFTA,
into my prediction for theAcademy.
And then that last spot I'mactually going to continue with
the trend that BAFTA has all thenominees within their long list
(59:29):
and I'm going to go with theApprentice and that's going to
give me, I think, an element ofsomebody real here, which is,
you know, the contemporarycharacters of the Apprentice,
and I think it's also going tolend me a crossover between an
actor nominee and a makeupnominee, right, and so I would
say the substance dune to nas,for raw to wicked and the
(59:50):
apprentice.
Right now, I think beetle juiceis going to be extremely close,
but I do wonder if the inclusionof someone like neil scanlon is
going to be more of a turn offand turn on that's a good point.
Jules (01:00:02):
That's a really good point.
Um, all right, well, that's ourdive into our predictions, our
final predictions for bestmakeup and hairstyling.
And to check our, our final,final, final predictions.
They'll be on twitter atacademy anon.
Thank you for tuning in.
Thank you for joining us.
Joseph (01:00:19):
I'm jules and I'm joseph .
You've been listening toAcademy Anonymous.
Jules (01:00:23):
And it's been a pleasure.
The music on this episode,entitled Cool Cats, was
graciously provided by KevinMacLeod and incompetechcom,
licensed under Creative Commonsby Attribution 3.0.
Http//creativecommonsorglicenses buy 3.0.
Joseph (01:00:56):
Disclaimer the Academy Anonymous Podcast is in no way
affiliated or endorsed by theAcademy of Motion Picture Arts
and Sciences.
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