On this episode of ACADEMY ANONYMOUS:
- A very complete consensus five for Production Design
- A Robert Eggers breakthrough Below-The-Line
- Susie Davies just the right kind of vet and “Conclave” the right kind of vehicle to beat the “Contemporary Curse”
- Overlap between sister categories - Production Design, Costume Design and Makeup
- The mandatory Visual Effects nominee
- Can Production Design and Cinematography go 5-for-5
- Directors who Production Designers seriously love - Tim Burton & Ridley Scott
- Is it ever wise to discount Arthur Max for a spot among the Production Design five
- Is the lineup COMPLETE without a historically-rendered period piece - the secret weapon for “A Complete Unknown” spoiler
- Can breakthrough “Nosferatu” Below-The-Line love translate into Best Picture
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joseph (00:13):
hello oscar watchers.
We're a couple of hours or afew days, depending on how you
look at it before oscarnominations come out, and you're
joining us on the AcademyAnonymous podcast.
I'm your co-host, joseph.
Jules (00:25):
I'm Jules.
Joseph (00:27):
And we're going to start talking about production design
.
That's achievement.
In production design, we'refinally talking about a category
that does not have a long listfrom the Academy, so we get to
contemplate all 114 films thatwere submitted in this category.
No, but really it's kind ofinteresting.
This category does not have along list but it has sort of
(00:47):
calcified over the last fewweeks into what is more or less
a solid top five consensus forthis category and let's talk
about what those films are andwe'll go little by little and
we'll start talking about whatwe're seeing as locks likely,
very possible, very possible,vulnerable.
So let's start with a film thatI think is certainly a lock here
(01:09):
, and I think that's nathancrowley, getting in for his work
on wicked yeah I think that's afor sure thing to be nominated
yeah, I agree 100 okay, and thenwe can also talk about dune 2
and that possibly being a lock.
What?
Jules (01:22):
do you think I agree?
Joseph (01:23):
lock, okay.
And then of course, there's thework on the Brutalist, judy
Becker, the production designerthere.
Jules (01:29):
I think that's a lock too , even though there's been
recent reporting of possibleusage of AI for certain things.
That's in the ether.
Joseph (01:42):
I heard AI directed it.
Brady Corbett hired AI todirect it.
Jules (01:47):
But whatever the case, that's not going to affect the
nominations.
That sort of controversy cameout too late.
It may affect the winners.
However, right now the Boodleis for production.
Design is a lock.
Joseph (02:00):
I think that you're right.
I think the film, though, ischallenging enough and certainly
long enough to possibly be afilm that could potentially be
snubbed here.
But the fact that Judy Beckerhas been nominated before for
her work on American Hustle andthe very nature of the film
having to do with architecture,Exactly.
I think it is a lock here andthen after those three, opinion
(02:21):
has sort of calcified around thefinal two which.
I think we have some prettyinteresting things to talk about
.
But, let's start with Conclaveright, best Picture movie.
We're going, you know, behindthe scenes into the quote.
Unquote papacy has a lot ofdetail into it and I think a lot
of people are also high on thisidea that Edward Berger managed
(02:42):
to get that nomination for AllQuiet on the Western Front and
that he's goingger managed toget that nomination for all
quiet on the western front andhe's going to have some of that
leftover goodwill yeah, I agree.
Jules (02:49):
I think that this category isn't super welcoming
to films that are contemporaryyeah, so that's certainly
something that's going againstconclave.
However, um, I think it benefitsfrom its competition.
It benefits from being a strongbest picture contender.
It benefits from its setting,so to speak, of the film and its
(03:11):
entirety having so much to dowith that setting that has a
real life anchor to it.
So that's something that thiscategory should have something
real life, not fantasy, orsomething that's very that.
This category should havesomething real life, not a
fantasy, or, yeah, somethingthat's very rooted in reality.
And so, even though Conclave iscertainly possibly not, you
(03:32):
know, the story is clearly notrooted in reality, the setting
is, and so I think that's onereason that it's doing well in
this category and why I see itas being a very likely nominee
here.
Joseph (03:42):
I mean.
Another element to talk aboutis the idea number one that it
is a contemporary piece and, asyou said, that is we'll call it
the curse of the contemporaryNotoriously difficult to be a
contemporary piece and benominated here.
You know, when you think ofsomething like Barbie, that's
something that productiondesigners sort of classified as
fantasy and less contemporary,although there is contemporary
(04:03):
elements.
Same thing with poor things andpoor things.
Jules (04:10):
There are these, the fantasy elements the fusion of
fantasy and contemporary orfantasy and period.
Joseph (04:12):
Those are the things that you know help the movie,
make the finish line exactlythis movie doesn't have that,
but what it does have is formeracademy award nominee, suzy
davies right I think doing theproduction design she was
nominated for mr turner.
I believe that was her firstnomination, but she's sort of
been dabbling with thesecontemporary films and she had a
lot of good mentions for workthat I thought was great in
Saltburn last year, right, soshe won her guild for that and
(04:35):
so I think that's a big helphere is that Susie Davis is a
former nominee, right, right,and then the other thing to talk
about about the final filmhappens to also be a focus
features release.
Interesting winter focusfeatures release burning up the
box office.
It's nas for ratu, right, right.
What do you think about that?
Jules (04:55):
you know, the race has calcified into those five, nas
ratu being that fifth spot, um.
I do think it going in itsfavor is that it was really
peaking at an important time,being a hit over Christmas.
I also think that its genre andits sort of folklore setting
helps it be something that couldbe attractive to this voting
(05:16):
body to look at, to put on thescreener, to watch and to put on
their ballot.
I hesitate because he's neverbeen recognized by this branch,
the production designer.
The production designer correct,and that it's also his first
nomination at the Art DirectorsGuild.
Right and again, Robert Eggers'films haven't really spoken to
(05:42):
many people, many branches otherthan cinematography at the
academy right.
This stands to be one that'sgoing to break that mold.
How, to what extent it's goingto break it is a question mark
um, for me personally, I'm alittle bit skeptical of it
because just the very nature ofthe film like I said, the
setting uh, helps the film quitea bit in this regard.
(06:02):
However, the way the film isconstructed, its palette, you
know, it's really dark Um, andsometimes the setting can be a
little bit more in thebackground.
Um, as you experience the film,again, the the, there's a lot
of shading, there's a lot ofdarkness.
Um, again, the palette is very,has a very particular hue to to
(06:24):
establish a certain kind oftheme and to pay homage, and so
I think those elements of thefilm I think murky the waters a
little bit in terms of theproduction design and it getting
recognized by this guild.
Now, add to that what Imentioned earlier about, uh,
this production designer notbeing recognized yet by this
(06:44):
branch and their firstnomination at the art directors
guild.
I'm I'm not 100 sold on it.
I do think it benefits from itscompetition, like I said, and
its success at the box office,but I could, I could see it
easily be a surprise snub allright.
Joseph (07:00):
Well, those are the five that have sort of cemented
themselves into this categoryand are the consensus five.
You know, it's interestingbecause two Focus Features
titles their Focus Features, Ibelieve hasn't pulled off two
nominations here before.
They're very different titles.
At the same time they have veryspecific vulnerabilities that
you just spoke to.
Now it's interesting becausethe five that are being quoted
(07:23):
as the cemented five and I don'tknow if you think those are the
favorites at this point theyhappen to go five for five with
the BAFTA nominees.
Right.
Right and not impossible torepeat five for five.
I think last year we saw allfive BAFTA production design
nominees become all five Academyaward nominees for production
design, and I think also in 2017, we saw all five BAFTA
(07:48):
production design nomineesbecome all five Academy Award
nominees for production design.
But barring those two years,what if I told you that, on
average, bafta is only gettingthree of their production design
nominees into the Academy Awardtop five for production design.
It's concerning which do youthink are the higher ranking
(08:09):
three?
Jules (08:10):
It would probably be the Brutalist Dune and Wicked.
Right, I would say.
But I feel that, just based onthe year that we're in, the
competition that we have, I dothink it's going to be, at the
very minimum, four repeat.
Joseph (08:23):
Well.
Jules (08:23):
Because Conclave, I think , looks pretty strong here.
Joseph (08:25):
Right, so four is pretty good.
I think it has happened, maybeat least once.
Like I said, they averagedthree and they have gone in five
before, although it's certainlynot always.
Maybe the year has calcifiedenough.
I'd like that among your listedfive and the cemented five
there's a lot of crossoverbetween costume and production
design, because we should seefilms.
(08:47):
Sort of get both you know,costume designers and production
designers.
They really do speak to eachother, and so they're looking at
films that are nominated at theCostume Designers Guild and
costume designers are looking atfilms that are nominated at the
Production Designers Guild andthey're looking at the other
films at BAFTA that are going tohire for costume production
designers guild and they'relooking at the other films that
bafta, the gun iron for costume.
All these guilds, all these,all the members of these
(09:07):
branches are sort of looking attheir neighbor categories and
seeing where I can find anotherinteresting potential nominee
right, and so I like that.
You have a lot of crossoverthere.
And then the other categorythat you should look at also is
something like cinematography,where we've seen a lot of
crossover there as well.
In the year 2021, I believe,all five production design
nominees which didn't matchbafta's production design
(09:30):
nominee list.
They were also the academy listfor cinematography right and so,
among the five, how many ofthose are being considered for
cinematography right now?
right, the buddha list dune andnasaratu and conclave four yeah,
so that, so four, I think, is agood number yeah I'm not sure
it should be five, but four is apretty healthy number yeah, and
(09:50):
so beyond costume and beyondcinematography the other
category that really speaks toproduction designers at least
there should be one film, if notmaybe one or two films.
Sort of bridging the twocategories is something like
visual effects, and so it has tobe that the favorites to sort
of bridge that gap, I believe,should be dune 2 right I think
(10:11):
it's dune 2, but I think formost people might even be wicked
over dune 2.
Jules (10:14):
Oh, that's right, because you do have multiple yeah we're
, we're, we're not, we're, we'renot as confident in the wicked
visual effects nomination, butcertainly I think that's.
Joseph (10:23):
Those two films are the ones to look at, to, to show up
here yeah, dune 2 should reallybe, at the very least, the one
movie minimum that there shouldbe bridging visual effects and
production design, and, like Isaid, you'd have to really look
to find a film that does notbridge those categories.
Right now we've talked about thecemented five, but let's see if
we can possibly sniff out wherethe spoiler is here.
(10:46):
I think you and I have alreadypointed out to the couple of
films that are vulnerable.
If we do not see those filmsmake it to the end, let's see if
we can figure out which film ortwo could possibly leap in
front of them by just a littlebit.
And we don't have a long listhere, so it could be all 114
films.
But we can use a couple ofthings to sort of narrow down
(11:07):
the field.
Right, and why don't we startwith the art directors guild?
Right, and the first categoryto look at is period, and so the
nominees were a completeunknown gladiator 2, nas for rot
2, saturday night, and thebrutalist.
Right, and of those five, we'reprojecting the brutalist
nasferatu to make that finalfive right and they are the only
(11:31):
two to cross over with baftaproduction design correct right,
right, and then usually periodis going to give you three to
four nominees and I will sayit's a little bit off.
Jules (11:41):
Our numbers are off, because we only have two right
now.
Joseph (11:44):
But the other titles Saturday Night, A Complete
Unknown and Gladiator 2, youwould assume are running behind
some of the films, for example,in fantasy for the Art Directors
Guild and the nominees forfantasy were Alien, Romulus,
Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice Dune 2,Furiosa and Wicked, and usually
we're getting one to two filmsfrom there and usually no more
(12:06):
than that, and it seems veryclear that we are going to get
at least two films from thereRight, right, exactly.
Barring a major upset.
We should see Nathan Crowleyand we should see Dune 2 both
being nominated.
Right.
So that's four, and then there'sthe contemporary category,
which again there's the idea ofthe curse of the contemporary
category, and that's whereyou're going to find conclave
civil war.
(12:26):
Emilia perez, the substancetwisters right and so we're sort
of pegging and everyone else issort of pegging conclave to
come out of that and to have twoperiod films, two fantasy films
and one contemporary film right, not a bad balance.
it's a nice balance, but again,the only contemporary films to
really pull this off wereParasite, Best Picture winner
(12:49):
and Foreign Language Film winner.
It was one of the few texts itwas able to get.
What about the Father, which isanother Best Picture nominee
winner for Best Actor?
And what about La La Land?
Right, La La Land was anotherproduction design contemporary
nominee that was able to getthis nominee out.
So the sort of pattern I'mtrying to pitch here is conclave
(13:11):
stands a very good chancebecause it is a best picture
nominee and it also has suzydavis behind it, so I'm thinking
that it's going to follow inthose same steps I agree 100.
Jules (13:22):
It'd be interesting to see some other films make some
noise here, but they're, as youwere saying, far behind Some
films that made this fantasycategory, like Furiosa, who
definitely deserves to be onthis list of production design
nominees, but won't.
Yeah, but you were going tobring up.
Joseph (13:42):
Well, I think the other element to bring in here to sort
of factor in, is, if we want tonarrow all those titles from
the art directors guild evenfurther, I think the place to
look at is the bafta long lists,and the long list from bafta
have been a real blessing interms of really narrowing down
the field.
Um, as I said, the BAFTAnominees for production design,
(14:05):
the BAFTA 5 production design.
They usually result in onlyfive nominees at the Academy,
which might leave out Conclaveand Nosferatu, and if we're sort
of saying that there's somevulnerability there, the BAFTA
long list has eventually shownall five academy award nominees.
So if there is a movie lurkingto sort of spoil the fourth or
(14:30):
the fifth spot, you shouldexpect to find it on that bottom
half, those films that got leftout of bafta right
and the films that got left outat bafta.
Those were beetle, wereBeetlejuice, beetlejuice, blitz,
a Complete Unknown, gladiator 2, and the Substance.
Now, a bunch of those gotnominated for the Guild but one
(14:52):
did not.
And that's Blitz, right, right,and you would expect that Blitz
would have had a more prominentshowing at BAFTA, right,
especially for someone who'sbeen nominated as often as Adam
Stock stockhausen.
But the fact that it didn't isprobably a red flag, right, but
it is there on that bottom halfof that list, which means that
if there's going to be a spoiler, maybe adam stockhausen has
(15:13):
enough favor within the branchto get nominated here right,
well, his, he's never beennominated without a film being
known for best picture, correct?
yeah, that's the.
I think the achilles heel forhis campaign is that his four
nominations they all came withbest picture films and blitz
seems too far, that seems liketoo far a bridge for them.
Right, and you know, speakingof too far a bridge, I think the
(15:33):
other film here that I think isjust too far for the academy to
embrace is the substance rightexactly again.
You talk about the curse of thecontemporary.
There's, uh, the filmmakersbehind that are the designers
behind that.
They're not necessarily knownby the guild.
They got nominated for theproduction design the production
design guild this year, butthey're not necessarily very
well known and also we have astrong contemporary contender,
(15:54):
exactly I do not think that we Idon't think that we are in a
place to be nominating or seeingtwo nominations for two
contemporary films unfortunatelyright, so that leaves, so that
really just leaves beetlelejuice.
Beetlejuice, a Complete Unknown,and Gladiator 2, of which maybe
the favorite here to steal aspot is Gladiator 2 because it
(16:16):
is designed by Arthur Max right,which is a pretty storied name
for production designers andcertainly within the Academy for
nominations, and several ofwhich came with working with
ridley scott.
I think possibly all of themcame with.
Ridley scott was nominated forthe first gladiator has yet to
win, will hopefully win at somepoint, but I wonder if his name
(16:38):
is going to be too tempting toleave off the list, and when you
see a contemporary piece, oryou see the production designer
of Nosferatu who, again, whosecareer isn't as expansive yet,
if it's going to be tooirresistible to not include
Arthur Max, voting these branchmembers a lot of the times
(17:02):
they're voting by habit of thefilmmakers that they have
perceived or experienced to begreat at sort of exploiting or
demonstrating the power of theircraft.
Exactly.
So you'll see a Steven Spielbergfilm, even when he's working
with a new production designeror a production designer he
(17:22):
hasn't worked with before orwho's relatively new.
The power that Steven Spielberghas to influence members of the
production designer branch isimmense.
They know that Steven Spielberguses production design in a
very specific way, in acompelling way, in an
interesting way, in a way that'svisually telling the story, and
so, no matter who hecollaborates with, production
designers are going to payattention to who.
Jules (17:43):
Spielberg is working with .
That's an excellent point, nomatter who he collaborates with
production designers are goingto pay attention to who
Spielberg is working with.
That's an excellent point.
Joseph (17:46):
No matter who, Christopher Nolan works with the
same thing.
I would argue there arefilmmakers like Lanthimos and
Chazelle who also have that sortof reputation.
Right right.
And Ridley Scott is one of thosefilmmakers.
Ridley Scott is a filmmaker whois really respected amongst the
members of the productiondesign branch and certainly his
collaboration with Arthur Maxwill be sort of historic and is
(18:08):
really well regarded.
And here they are again.
I could easily see him sort ofleapfrog, someone who's just
getting started, who in maybe 10years time will have that same
sort of weight with theproduction designers and that's.
Robert.
Eggers and his collaborationwith his production designer.
Jules (18:24):
What I don't like is that he was just nominated last year
for napoleon arthur max exactlyand so that, to me, is one of
the biggest things that gives mepause.
I don't think he's ever hadback-to-back nominations at the
academy no he hasn't.
And so I think part of this uhfor the branch is going to be
this understanding that napoleon, you know, wasn't as big of a
(18:47):
thing as it could have been.
You know it managed threenominations because the techs in
that film are very strong, andmanaged those nominations
without the film really doingmore than that.
And then it's a similar storywith Gladiator 2, a film that
doesn't stand to get severalabove the line nominations or
have a huge impact in thisAcademy season and might just
(19:11):
get a few little sprinklednominations here and there.
This is a category that he wasjust in last year.
I feel tempted to think thatthey're going to want to go
somewhere new.
Joseph (19:23):
Yeah, that could be the case.
And speaking of something like,again, those filmmakers that
have a reputation for, you know,really highlighting production
design, you have Tim Burton withBeetlejuice.
Beetlejuice he's working with ateam that isn't necessarily the
one that he's most known for,the one that he has helped reap
nominations, but certainly anyTim Burton film is going to
(19:43):
strike the curiosity and theinterest and probably the
admiration of productiondesigners, and I think that's
why it's even on this BAFTA longlist.
Granted, we have possibly toomany fantasy films as it is, and
that's the Achilles heel.
But there's also, there's anaspect to Beetlejuice,
beetlejuice where the you knowproduction design is a little
bit more based in you knowmodern, you know contemporary,
(20:05):
right right, there is thatelement contemporary, exactly
that might not be as wellregarded yeah um, but now that
we speak about gladiator 2 andbeetlejuice, beetlejuice and
those being filmmakers, andpossibly even steve mcqueen and
adam stockhausen whosecollaboration on 12 years a
slave was adam's firstnomination right and certainly,
you know, a world war War IIfilm that's done accurately or
(20:27):
attempts to be done accuratelyis going to be something that's
attention calling to members.
There's something to be saidabout how the cemented five is
pretty well rounded in the factthat we have four previous
nominees and only one newbie,and that sort of one newbie is
the production designer ofNosferatu and the other
production designers.
(20:47):
They've all been nominatedbefore, whether it's Judy Becker
for the Buddha List or theConclave team or the Dune 2 team
or the Wicked team.
So I think there's something youknow very balanced about that.
But at the same time, theproduction designers if you look
at them historically at theacademy, when they're nominating
new people, a couple of thingsare happening.
(21:08):
Either they're nominating newartisans that have not been
nominated before, but they'regetting in with their movie that
is a best picture movie.
And so, for example, the teamfrom poor things is not, does
not have a very expansivefilmography, but because poor
things is this huge best picturemovie, it's easy for them to be
nominated and eventually winthat category right, and the
(21:29):
other thing is that by thatpoint maybe your ghost has a
little bit more of a reputationto already coming off of
something like the favorite tosort of highlight right
production design in these sortof period fantasy fusions right
correct.
But is that the case forNosferatu?
Nosferatu?
The production designers areprobably just being exposed to
(21:50):
Robert Eggers for the first time, his production designer for
the first time, and it's not.
No one is really pegging it tobe a best picture, sure thing
right now right right.
So you would wonder if theproduction designers usually,
when they're letting in someonein new, it's because their movie
isn't best picture or becausetheir director, for example,
happens to be someone who's beenhighlighted by that guild
(22:12):
before.
I think of, for example, theteam behind the Tragedy of
Macbeth in 2021.
They were able to be nominatedfor the first time and that was
also not a best picture movie,so very much like Nosferatu.
Sort of like Nosferatu, has thissort of very specific
atmosphere, right, very specificdetail.
But the Coen brothers, by thatpoint, had sort of been, you
(22:34):
know, introduced to theproduction designers, whether
it's in all their filmography,but specifically movies they
nominated, like True Grit, andso Robert Eggers doesn't have
that yet right.
So I do wonder if that ispossibly what's going to undo
the nazferatu nomination hereright.
Jules (22:51):
I think that those are all excellent points and really
get to the core of why that filmis vulnerable in this section,
in this uh category.
Um, I'm unsure of what's goingto happen with that film.
I want to say that I feeltempted to stick to the
consensus Again.
I like the genre that Nosferatuis in, I like the world that
(23:13):
it's playing with.
I really feel like the palette,like I mentioned, I think,
could hurt it a bit, the palettethat's in the film.
Um, I'm not sure, do you seeother contenders that you would
say, oh well, there's a big onethat we haven't talked about.
Joseph (23:27):
Well, I think the last one to talk about is possibly
the dark horse here the biggestdark horse the biggest dark
horse because on paper no one isrushing to include it, and I
understand that.
And certainly on paper one wouldargue that the biggest dark
horse is someone like arthur maxfor gladiator 2 right but what
(23:48):
if we talk about, for a second,a complete unknown right, right
which made its guild at theproduction designers guild in
the period section where we onlyhave two films right now?
Right, and we can also talkabout this idea that it also
made the bafta long list, and ifwe're saying that the bafta has
all nominees, it's there in thefilms that were left out.
(24:08):
But it also brings an elementinto this category that isn't
really there right.
So we have our period films, wehave our fantasy films.
We even made room for acontemporary film, we have one
new individual and we have afilm by previously nominated
designers and we have a filmthat you know has had directors
(24:29):
sort of put their stamp on whatthe craft can do, like edward
berger and certainly, uh, nathancrowley and the team of
universal, who's trying torecreate oz, and you know denivo
new, who's been nominating thiscategory for Arrival and Dune.
So he's no stranger here.
But what about the idea thatthere really is no film on this
(24:53):
list that is sort of extremelyhistorical or extremely
recreational, trying to recreatesomething very specific?
Right.
You know they're either dealingwith sort of mythical spaces or
fantastical spaces or spaces,you know, in the sense of
conclave, that do exist but areagain being sort of attacked
from a sort of mythical sort ofway.
(25:13):
You know no one has really beenso deep inside the Vatican that
we know that this is.
You're quoting something right,right, whereas you have a movie
like A Complete Unknown thathas these photographs and these
references and they're trying toquote them as closely as
possible.
Jules (25:29):
Right and it was a big endeavor of trying to make.
Joseph (25:31):
New.
Jules (25:31):
Jersey into Greenwich Village.
Joseph (25:33):
Exactly, and it's very, you know, detail oriented and
there are moments in the film,unfortunately, that could be a
little bit broad, but there ispossibly enough scenery that is
era specific.
And that does the job, as yousaid, of trying to make it
Greenwich Village Right, and soI wonder if maybe that isn't the
(25:56):
film that's going to leapfrogeither the contemporary piece in
Conclave or Nosferatu, which isjust too new in terms of being
introduced to both the designerand Robert Eggers.
You have A Complete Unknownwhich is again a more
historically or trying to be amore historically accurate
(26:16):
recreation.
James Mangold, you know doesn'tdo so great in this category
well in this category, but theproduction designer has been
nominated a bunch of times byhis guild.
He's never won, but we knowthis movie already is a much
stronger film than people hadperceived a month ago.
It's possibly a top five film.
Jules (26:36):
And as we were saying, yeah, as we had mentioned.
Joseph (26:37):
We had mentioned, you know, a while, a while back when
we started catching wind ofwhat kind of film it was and
what the reaction was.
But the other thing about it isthat the set decorator, who
again is in charge of so much ofthis detail, you know they are
a previous oscar nominee.
They were nominated, I believe,for their work on the irishman
right and so I do wonder if themirage of the dark horse is
(26:58):
arthur max but sort of the realdark horse is possibly a
complete unknown sneaking inhere I think that's really well
said and completely accurate.
Jules (27:08):
I think you're 100, right .
Um, I worry about completeunknown getting both a
production design nomination anda costume design nomination,
and we're going to talk aboutthat when we get into costume.
I think it's one or the other.
I do expect Complete Unknown toget a good number of
nominations.
I don't expect double digitnominations.
(27:29):
I worry that the morecategories you put in there, the
higher we get to that doubledigit range.
Right, that the more categoriesyou put in there, the higher we
get to that double-digit range.
I do think that it'll beimpressive for production
designers to consider a filmthat undertook the undertaking
of making New Jersey into circaBob Dylan Greenwich Village.
(27:49):
However, I know that I rememberreading in reviews when the
film was coming out thatcertainly critics thought that
there was work put into thatspace, into creating that world,
but that it wasn't 100%believable, so as to say I can
appreciate the work but I'm not100% convinced that it's New
(28:14):
York.
I wonder if that kind of nuanceis something that can be
present for the members of thisbranch also, and also that
beyond that New York world thatwe're recreating, a lot of the
spaces are interior spaces,smaller spaces.
There's certainly a lot ofaccuracy to them, but not as
(28:34):
attention calling as thatrecreation right.
Joseph (28:37):
Speaking of, yeah, that I think that on paper it would
certainly be, you know, lessimpressive than the work that's
being done on nosferatu andgladiator 2, but I wonder if it
hits just that sweet spot interms of well, here's a
production designer that we'regoing to let him for the first
time.
Well, lo and behold, he'sgetting in for a best picture
movie, right, unlike nosferatu.
And in terms of well, here's aproduction designer that we're
(28:58):
going to let him for the firsttime.
Well, lo and behold, he'sgetting in for a.
Jules (29:00):
Best Picture movie, unlike Nosferatu, and sometimes
we talk about this symmetry thathappens with filmmakers and
their films, and so if you goback to the last time that this
filmmaker had an Oscar contenderand walked the line, that film
ended up getting a costumedesign nomination but it didn't
get an eye for production design, and so there might be the
(29:20):
symmetry to having him sort ofin this kind of genre once again
and this time landing aproduction design nomination
right, and you know we'vealready flirted with the idea
that maybe walk the excuse me, acomplete unknown is going to
fulfill the journey that walkthe line started and yes, we're
possibly getting into that areaof double digits when we talk
about a film that's a top fivefilm according to the british
(29:41):
academy right and a top fivefilm according to the director's
guild award, I know we'retalking about films that are a
film that is now it's a big dealtechnically ahead of dune 2 and
technically ahead of wickedwhen you talk about that maybe
the idea of flirting with doubledigits for this movie is not a
bad one.
I go back to previous films thatare sort of tackling
(30:05):
articulating a very iconicfigure, especially in the music
space.
I think about Elvis and howthat film got eight nominations
and so I like around that numberfor it.
You know that sort of anomination range, but I a
hundred percent see what you'resaying.
Yeah.
Joseph (30:19):
The other interesting thing is that if we were to
somehow consider taking outNosferatu in favor of a complete
unknown, we're going to have astrictly best picture race
between all these films that weare anticipating to make.
The final 10, right, they willall be best picture nominees
between all these films that weare anticipating to make the
final 10 right they will all bebest picture nominees.
I think that'd be interestingbecause it puts them more or
(30:40):
less on an even playing fieldright there isn't necessarily a
name that is so much further outthere possibly nathan crowley
possibly, but he's had so muchmore luck with christopher
nolan's films than with otherindividuals films.
So so I kind of like that ideathat all five production design
nominees are Best Picturenominees.
Jules (31:02):
That doesn't happen often .
Joseph (31:03):
You know, I think it's happened a couple of times, but
it doesn't happen often.
And then the other thing I'llsay is, you know, speaking of
that sort of bias that some ofthose production designers have
in terms of bringing in a filmthat doesn't have a, hasn't had
a, a filmmaker, sort of growwith them and grow reputation
with them, like robert eggers orthe production designer,
(31:24):
because they've never reallysingled him out at the guild,
the baft, at any other award atthe academy.
Due to all that, if nosferatuis strong enough to get this
nomination, I would not besurprised if it is strong enough
to steal the 10th spot in BestPicture.
Jules (31:40):
I think that would be very surprising to a lot of
people, just based on the kindof movie.
It is Right, and you know it'salso the kind of film that did
really well at the box office,yeah, but I'm not 100% certain
all those people who did see ithow they loved it, right, even
though I think it's a strongfilm.
Um, but robert eggers is a isan artist that you know goes his
(32:02):
own way.
Um has a very particular style.
Uh, has very particular themethemes.
He wants to communicate in avery specific manner.
Um, so I'm not sure that Ithink it's popular enough to get
into that top 10, but certainlyit would make sense as you.
Joseph (32:15):
What if you were pressed and you had the option either
include nosferatu in productiondesign and bump it into picture,
or dump nosferatu and replaceit with someone else in
production design?
Which option do you think ismore likely, or do you think?
Jules (32:29):
I think it's more possible.
I I think of those two.
I think the latter that theydumped Nosferatu for production
design yeah.
Joseph (32:35):
Yeah, I think that could very well be.
Jules (32:43):
That's what I'm thinking, that maybe something like
Gladiator 2 or Complete Unknowncould end up doing.
Well, for right now, my finalprediction is going to be the
Calcified 5, the BrutalistNosferatu Dune, Part 2, Wicked
Conclave, and the one with thequestion mark attached to it is
Nosferatu, and my spoiler isgoing to be a complete unknown.
Joseph (33:02):
I think that's a very, very complete list.
I'm going to go with theBrutalist Wicked Dune 2,
conclave beats the ContemporaryCurse, but for that fifth spot
I'm going to leave out Nosferatu.
Okay.
And I'm going to put in AComplete Unknown.
Okay, and for my spoiler, Iknow that Nosferatu is very
(33:23):
tempting and, as I said, I meanthe power of Chris Columbus
could possibly get this movieinto that 10th spot.
But if not, I think it's veryunwise to place a bet against
Arthur Max.
Jules (33:34):
I think his reputation is just too legendary at this
point.
Right, that's a really goodpoint.
Well, those are our finalpredictions for production
design.
Again, tune in to our Twitterto see the very, very, very,
very, very final.
Joseph (33:47):
Yeah, a screenshot of what our final, final
predictions will be Right.
All right, that's everythingfor us here at Academy Anonymous
today.
We thank you for joining usTill next time.
I'm Joseph.
Jules (33:58):
I'm Jules and it's been a pleasure.
The music on this episode,entitled Cool Cats, was
(34:26):
graciously provided by KevinMcLeod and license under
creative commons by attribution3.0.
Http//creativecommonsorg.
Joseph (34:30):
Licenses forward slash by forward slash 3.0 disclaimer
thelaimer the Academy Anonymouspodcast is in no way affiliated
or endorsed by the Academy ofMotion Picture Arts and Sciences
.
hello oscar watchers.
We're a couple of hours or afew days, depending on how you
look at it before oscarnominations come out, and you're
joining us on the AcademyAnonymous podcast.
I'm your co-host, joseph.
Jules (00:25):
I'm Jules.
Joseph (00:27):
And we're going to start talking about production design
.
That's achievement.
In production design, we'refinally talking about a category
that does not have a long listfrom the Academy, so we get to
contemplate all 114 films thatwere submitted in this category.
No, but really it's kind ofinteresting.
This category does not have along list but it has sort of
(00:47):
calcified over the last fewweeks into what is more or less
a solid top five consensus forthis category and let's talk
about what those films are andwe'll go little by little and
we'll start talking about whatwe're seeing as locks likely,
very possible, very possible,vulnerable.
So let's start with a film thatI think is certainly a lock here
(01:09):
, and I think that's nathancrowley, getting in for his work
on wicked yeah I think that's afor sure thing to be nominated
yeah, I agree 100 okay, and thenwe can also talk about dune 2
and that possibly being a lock.
What?
Jules (01:22):
do you think I agree?
Joseph (01:23):
lock, okay.
And then of course, there's thework on the Brutalist, judy
Becker, the production designerthere.
Jules (01:29):
I think that's a lock too , even though there's been
recent reporting of possibleusage of AI for certain things.
That's in the ether.
Joseph (01:42):
I heard AI directed it.
Brady Corbett hired AI todirect it.
Jules (01:47):
But whatever the case, that's not going to affect the
nominations.
That sort of controversy cameout too late.
It may affect the winners.
However, right now the Boodleis for production.
Design is a lock.
Joseph (02:00):
I think that you're right.
I think the film, though, ischallenging enough and certainly
long enough to possibly be afilm that could potentially be
snubbed here.
But the fact that Judy Beckerhas been nominated before for
her work on American Hustle andthe very nature of the film
having to do with architecture,Exactly.
I think it is a lock here andthen after those three, opinion
(02:21):
has sort of calcified around thefinal two which.
I think we have some prettyinteresting things to talk about
.
But, let's start with Conclaveright, best Picture movie.
We're going, you know, behindthe scenes into the quote.
Unquote papacy has a lot ofdetail into it and I think a lot
of people are also high on thisidea that Edward Berger managed
(02:42):
to get that nomination for AllQuiet on the Western Front and
that he's goingger managed toget that nomination for all
quiet on the western front andhe's going to have some of that
leftover goodwill yeah, I agree.
Jules (02:49):
I think that this category isn't super welcoming
to films that are contemporaryyeah, so that's certainly
something that's going againstconclave.
However, um, I think it benefitsfrom its competition.
It benefits from being a strongbest picture contender.
It benefits from its setting,so to speak, of the film and its
(03:11):
entirety having so much to dowith that setting that has a
real life anchor to it.
So that's something that thiscategory should have something
real life, not fantasy, orsomething that's very that.
This category should havesomething real life, not a
fantasy, or, yeah, somethingthat's very rooted in reality.
And so, even though Conclave iscertainly possibly not, you
(03:32):
know, the story is clearly notrooted in reality, the setting
is, and so I think that's onereason that it's doing well in
this category and why I see itas being a very likely nominee
here.
Joseph (03:42):
I mean.
Another element to talk aboutis the idea number one that it
is a contemporary piece and, asyou said, that is we'll call it
the curse of the contemporaryNotoriously difficult to be a
contemporary piece and benominated here.
You know, when you think ofsomething like Barbie, that's
something that productiondesigners sort of classified as
fantasy and less contemporary,although there is contemporary
(04:03):
elements.
Same thing with poor things andpoor things.
Jules (04:10):
There are these, the fantasy elements the fusion of
fantasy and contemporary orfantasy and period.
Joseph (04:12):
Those are the things that you know help the movie,
make the finish line exactlythis movie doesn't have that,
but what it does have is formeracademy award nominee, suzy
davies right I think doing theproduction design she was
nominated for mr turner.
I believe that was her firstnomination, but she's sort of
been dabbling with thesecontemporary films and she had a
lot of good mentions for workthat I thought was great in
Saltburn last year, right, soshe won her guild for that and
(04:35):
so I think that's a big helphere is that Susie Davis is a
former nominee, right, right,and then the other thing to talk
about about the final filmhappens to also be a focus
features release.
Interesting winter focusfeatures release burning up the
box office.
It's nas for ratu, right, right.
What do you think about that?
Jules (04:55):
you know, the race has calcified into those five, nas
ratu being that fifth spot, um.
I do think it going in itsfavor is that it was really
peaking at an important time,being a hit over Christmas.
I also think that its genre andits sort of folklore setting
helps it be something that couldbe attractive to this voting
(05:16):
body to look at, to put on thescreener, to watch and to put on
their ballot.
I hesitate because he's neverbeen recognized by this branch,
the production designer.
The production designer correct,and that it's also his first
nomination at the Art DirectorsGuild.
Right and again, Robert Eggers'films haven't really spoken to
(05:42):
many people, many branches otherthan cinematography at the
academy right.
This stands to be one that'sgoing to break that mold.
How, to what extent it's goingto break it is a question mark
um, for me personally, I'm alittle bit skeptical of it
because just the very nature ofthe film like I said, the
setting uh, helps the film quitea bit in this regard.
(06:02):
However, the way the film isconstructed, its palette, you
know, it's really dark Um, andsometimes the setting can be a
little bit more in thebackground.
Um, as you experience the film,again, the the, there's a lot
of shading, there's a lot ofdarkness.
Um, again, the palette is very,has a very particular hue to to
(06:24):
establish a certain kind oftheme and to pay homage, and so
I think those elements of thefilm I think murky the waters a
little bit in terms of theproduction design and it getting
recognized by this guild.
Now, add to that what Imentioned earlier about, uh,
this production designer notbeing recognized yet by this
(06:44):
branch and their firstnomination at the art directors
guild.
I'm I'm not 100 sold on it.
I do think it benefits from itscompetition, like I said, and
its success at the box office,but I could, I could see it
easily be a surprise snub allright.
Joseph (07:00):
Well, those are the five that have sort of cemented
themselves into this categoryand are the consensus five.
You know, it's interestingbecause two Focus Features
titles their Focus Features, Ibelieve hasn't pulled off two
nominations here before.
They're very different titles.
At the same time they have veryspecific vulnerabilities that
you just spoke to.
Now it's interesting becausethe five that are being quoted
(07:23):
as the cemented five and I don'tknow if you think those are the
favorites at this point theyhappen to go five for five with
the BAFTA nominees.
Right.
Right and not impossible torepeat five for five.
I think last year we saw allfive BAFTA production design
nominees become all five Academyaward nominees for production
design, and I think also in 2017, we saw all five BAFTA
(07:48):
production design nomineesbecome all five Academy Award
nominees for production design.
But barring those two years,what if I told you that, on
average, bafta is only gettingthree of their production design
nominees into the Academy Awardtop five for production design.
It's concerning which do youthink are the higher ranking
(08:09):
three?
Jules (08:10):
It would probably be the Brutalist Dune and Wicked.
Right, I would say.
But I feel that, just based onthe year that we're in, the
competition that we have, I dothink it's going to be, at the
very minimum, four repeat.
Joseph (08:23):
Well.
Jules (08:23):
Because Conclave, I think , looks pretty strong here.
Joseph (08:25):
Right, so four is pretty good.
I think it has happened, maybeat least once.
Like I said, they averagedthree and they have gone in five
before, although it's certainlynot always.
Maybe the year has calcifiedenough.
I'd like that among your listedfive and the cemented five
there's a lot of crossoverbetween costume and production
design, because we should seefilms.
(08:47):
Sort of get both you know,costume designers and production
designers.
They really do speak to eachother, and so they're looking at
films that are nominated at theCostume Designers Guild and
costume designers are looking atfilms that are nominated at the
Production Designers Guild andthey're looking at the other
films at BAFTA that are going tohire for costume production
designers guild and they'relooking at the other films that
bafta, the gun iron for costume.
All these guilds, all these,all the members of these
(09:07):
branches are sort of looking attheir neighbor categories and
seeing where I can find anotherinteresting potential nominee
right, and so I like that.
You have a lot of crossoverthere.
And then the other categorythat you should look at also is
something like cinematography,where we've seen a lot of
crossover there as well.
In the year 2021, I believe,all five production design
nominees which didn't matchbafta's production design
(09:30):
nominee list.
They were also the academy listfor cinematography right and so,
among the five, how many ofthose are being considered for
cinematography right now?
right, the buddha list dune andnasaratu and conclave four yeah,
so that, so four, I think, is agood number yeah I'm not sure
it should be five, but four is apretty healthy number yeah, and
(09:50):
so beyond costume and beyondcinematography the other
category that really speaks toproduction designers at least
there should be one film, if notmaybe one or two films.
Sort of bridging the twocategories is something like
visual effects, and so it has tobe that the favorites to sort
of bridge that gap, I believe,should be dune 2 right I think
(10:11):
it's dune 2, but I think formost people might even be wicked
over dune 2.
Jules (10:14):
Oh, that's right, because you do have multiple yeah we're
, we're, we're not, we're, we'renot as confident in the wicked
visual effects nomination, butcertainly I think that's.
Joseph (10:23):
Those two films are the ones to look at, to, to show up
here yeah, dune 2 should reallybe, at the very least, the one
movie minimum that there shouldbe bridging visual effects and
production design, and, like Isaid, you'd have to really look
to find a film that does notbridge those categories.
Right now we've talked about thecemented five, but let's see if
we can possibly sniff out wherethe spoiler is here.
(10:46):
I think you and I have alreadypointed out to the couple of
films that are vulnerable.
If we do not see those filmsmake it to the end, let's see if
we can figure out which film ortwo could possibly leap in
front of them by just a littlebit.
And we don't have a long listhere, so it could be all 114
films.
But we can use a couple ofthings to sort of narrow down
(11:07):
the field.
Right, and why don't we startwith the art directors guild?
Right, and the first categoryto look at is period, and so the
nominees were a completeunknown gladiator 2, nas for rot
2, saturday night, and thebrutalist.
Right, and of those five, we'reprojecting the brutalist
nasferatu to make that finalfive right and they are the only
(11:31):
two to cross over with baftaproduction design correct right,
right, and then usually periodis going to give you three to
four nominees and I will sayit's a little bit off.
Jules (11:41):
Our numbers are off, because we only have two right
now.
Joseph (11:44):
But the other titles Saturday Night, A Complete
Unknown and Gladiator 2, youwould assume are running behind
some of the films, for example,in fantasy for the Art Directors
Guild and the nominees forfantasy were Alien, Romulus,
Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice Dune 2,Furiosa and Wicked, and usually
we're getting one to two filmsfrom there and usually no more
(12:06):
than that, and it seems veryclear that we are going to get
at least two films from thereRight, right, exactly.
Barring a major upset.
We should see Nathan Crowleyand we should see Dune 2 both
being nominated.
Right.
So that's four, and then there'sthe contemporary category,
which again there's the idea ofthe curse of the contemporary
category, and that's whereyou're going to find conclave
civil war.
(12:26):
Emilia perez, the substancetwisters right and so we're sort
of pegging and everyone else issort of pegging conclave to
come out of that and to have twoperiod films, two fantasy films
and one contemporary film right, not a bad balance.
it's a nice balance, but again,the only contemporary films to
really pull this off wereParasite, Best Picture winner
(12:49):
and Foreign Language Film winner.
It was one of the few texts itwas able to get.
What about the Father, which isanother Best Picture nominee
winner for Best Actor?
And what about La La Land?
Right, La La Land was anotherproduction design contemporary
nominee that was able to getthis nominee out.
So the sort of pattern I'mtrying to pitch here is conclave
(13:11):
stands a very good chancebecause it is a best picture
nominee and it also has suzydavis behind it, so I'm thinking
that it's going to follow inthose same steps I agree 100.
Jules (13:22):
It'd be interesting to see some other films make some
noise here, but they're, as youwere saying, far behind Some
films that made this fantasycategory, like Furiosa, who
definitely deserves to be onthis list of production design
nominees, but won't.
Yeah, but you were going tobring up.
Joseph (13:42):
Well, I think the other element to bring in here to sort
of factor in, is, if we want tonarrow all those titles from
the art directors guild evenfurther, I think the place to
look at is the bafta long lists,and the long list from bafta
have been a real blessing interms of really narrowing down
the field.
Um, as I said, the BAFTAnominees for production design,
(14:05):
the BAFTA 5 production design.
They usually result in onlyfive nominees at the Academy,
which might leave out Conclaveand Nosferatu, and if we're sort
of saying that there's somevulnerability there, the BAFTA
long list has eventually shownall five academy award nominees.
So if there is a movie lurkingto sort of spoil the fourth or
(14:30):
the fifth spot, you shouldexpect to find it on that bottom
half, those films that got leftout of bafta right
and the films that got left outat bafta.
Those were beetle, wereBeetlejuice, beetlejuice, blitz,
a Complete Unknown, gladiator 2, and the Substance.
Now, a bunch of those gotnominated for the Guild but one
(14:52):
did not.
And that's Blitz, right, right,and you would expect that Blitz
would have had a more prominentshowing at BAFTA, right,
especially for someone who'sbeen nominated as often as Adam
Stock stockhausen.
But the fact that it didn't isprobably a red flag, right, but
it is there on that bottom halfof that list, which means that
if there's going to be a spoiler, maybe adam stockhausen has
(15:13):
enough favor within the branchto get nominated here right,
well, his, he's never beennominated without a film being
known for best picture, correct?
yeah, that's the.
I think the achilles heel forhis campaign is that his four
nominations they all came withbest picture films and blitz
seems too far, that seems liketoo far a bridge for them.
Right, and you know, speakingof too far a bridge, I think the
(15:33):
other film here that I think isjust too far for the academy to
embrace is the substance rightexactly again.
You talk about the curse of thecontemporary.
There's, uh, the filmmakersbehind that are the designers
behind that.
They're not necessarily knownby the guild.
They got nominated for theproduction design the production
design guild this year, butthey're not necessarily very
well known and also we have astrong contemporary contender,
(15:54):
exactly I do not think that we Idon't think that we are in a
place to be nominating or seeingtwo nominations for two
contemporary films unfortunatelyright, so that leaves, so that
really just leaves beetlelejuice.
Beetlejuice, a Complete Unknown,and Gladiator 2, of which maybe
the favorite here to steal aspot is Gladiator 2 because it
(16:16):
is designed by Arthur Max right,which is a pretty storied name
for production designers andcertainly within the Academy for
nominations, and several ofwhich came with working with
ridley scott.
I think possibly all of themcame with.
Ridley scott was nominated forthe first gladiator has yet to
win, will hopefully win at somepoint, but I wonder if his name
(16:38):
is going to be too tempting toleave off the list, and when you
see a contemporary piece, oryou see the production designer
of Nosferatu who, again, whosecareer isn't as expansive yet,
if it's going to be tooirresistible to not include
Arthur Max, voting these branchmembers a lot of the times
(17:02):
they're voting by habit of thefilmmakers that they have
perceived or experienced to begreat at sort of exploiting or
demonstrating the power of theircraft.
Exactly.
So you'll see a Steven Spielbergfilm, even when he's working
with a new production designeror a production designer he
(17:22):
hasn't worked with before orwho's relatively new.
The power that Steven Spielberghas to influence members of the
production designer branch isimmense.
They know that Steven Spielberguses production design in a
very specific way, in acompelling way, in an
interesting way, in a way that'svisually telling the story, and
so, no matter who hecollaborates with, production
designers are going to payattention to who.
Jules (17:43):
Spielberg is working with .
That's an excellent point, nomatter who he collaborates with
production designers are goingto pay attention to who
Spielberg is working with.
That's an excellent point.
Joseph (17:46):
No matter who, Christopher Nolan works with the
same thing.
I would argue there arefilmmakers like Lanthimos and
Chazelle who also have that sortof reputation.
Right right.
And Ridley Scott is one of thosefilmmakers.
Ridley Scott is a filmmaker whois really respected amongst the
members of the productiondesign branch and certainly his
collaboration with Arthur Maxwill be sort of historic and is
(18:08):
really well regarded.
And here they are again.
I could easily see him sort ofleapfrog, someone who's just
getting started, who in maybe 10years time will have that same
sort of weight with theproduction designers and that's.
Robert.
Eggers and his collaborationwith his production designer.
Jules (18:24):
What I don't like is that he was just nominated last year
for napoleon arthur max exactlyand so that, to me, is one of
the biggest things that gives mepause.
I don't think he's ever hadback-to-back nominations at the
academy no he hasn't.
And so I think part of this uhfor the branch is going to be
this understanding that napoleon, you know, wasn't as big of a
(18:47):
thing as it could have been.
You know it managed threenominations because the techs in
that film are very strong, andmanaged those nominations
without the film really doingmore than that.
And then it's a similar storywith Gladiator 2, a film that
doesn't stand to get severalabove the line nominations or
have a huge impact in thisAcademy season and might just
(19:11):
get a few little sprinklednominations here and there.
This is a category that he wasjust in last year.
I feel tempted to think thatthey're going to want to go
somewhere new.
Joseph (19:23):
Yeah, that could be the case.
And speaking of something like,again, those filmmakers that
have a reputation for, you know,really highlighting production
design, you have Tim Burton withBeetlejuice.
Beetlejuice he's working with ateam that isn't necessarily the
one that he's most known for,the one that he has helped reap
nominations, but certainly anyTim Burton film is going to
(19:43):
strike the curiosity and theinterest and probably the
admiration of productiondesigners, and I think that's
why it's even on this BAFTA longlist.
Granted, we have possibly toomany fantasy films as it is, and
that's the Achilles heel.
But there's also, there's anaspect to Beetlejuice,
beetlejuice where the you knowproduction design is a little
bit more based in you knowmodern, you know contemporary,
(20:05):
right right, there is thatelement contemporary, exactly
that might not be as wellregarded yeah um, but now that
we speak about gladiator 2 andbeetlejuice, beetlejuice and
those being filmmakers, andpossibly even steve mcqueen and
adam stockhausen whosecollaboration on 12 years a
slave was adam's firstnomination right and certainly,
you know, a world war War IIfilm that's done accurately or
(20:27):
attempts to be done accuratelyis going to be something that's
attention calling to members.
There's something to be saidabout how the cemented five is
pretty well rounded in the factthat we have four previous
nominees and only one newbie,and that sort of one newbie is
the production designer ofNosferatu and the other
production designers.
(20:47):
They've all been nominatedbefore, whether it's Judy Becker
for the Buddha List or theConclave team or the Dune 2 team
or the Wicked team.
So I think there's something youknow very balanced about that.
But at the same time, theproduction designers if you look
at them historically at theacademy, when they're nominating
new people, a couple of thingsare happening.
(21:08):
Either they're nominating newartisans that have not been
nominated before, but they'regetting in with their movie that
is a best picture movie.
And so, for example, the teamfrom poor things is not, does
not have a very expansivefilmography, but because poor
things is this huge best picturemovie, it's easy for them to be
nominated and eventually winthat category right, and the
(21:29):
other thing is that by thatpoint maybe your ghost has a
little bit more of a reputationto already coming off of
something like the favorite tosort of highlight right
production design in these sortof period fantasy fusions right
correct.
But is that the case forNosferatu?
Nosferatu?
The production designers areprobably just being exposed to
(21:50):
Robert Eggers for the first time, his production designer for
the first time, and it's not.
No one is really pegging it tobe a best picture, sure thing
right now right right.
So you would wonder if theproduction designers usually,
when they're letting in someonein new, it's because their movie
isn't best picture or becausetheir director, for example,
happens to be someone who's beenhighlighted by that guild
(22:12):
before.
I think of, for example, theteam behind the Tragedy of
Macbeth in 2021.
They were able to be nominatedfor the first time and that was
also not a best picture movie,so very much like Nosferatu.
Sort of like Nosferatu, has thissort of very specific
atmosphere, right, very specificdetail.
But the Coen brothers, by thatpoint, had sort of been, you
(22:34):
know, introduced to theproduction designers, whether
it's in all their filmography,but specifically movies they
nominated, like True Grit, andso Robert Eggers doesn't have
that yet right.
So I do wonder if that ispossibly what's going to undo
the nazferatu nomination hereright.
Jules (22:51):
I think that those are all excellent points and really
get to the core of why that filmis vulnerable in this section,
in this uh category.
Um, I'm unsure of what's goingto happen with that film.
I want to say that I feeltempted to stick to the
consensus Again.
I like the genre that Nosferatuis in, I like the world that
(23:13):
it's playing with.
I really feel like the palette,like I mentioned, I think,
could hurt it a bit, the palettethat's in the film.
Um, I'm not sure, do you seeother contenders that you would
say, oh well, there's a big onethat we haven't talked about.
Joseph (23:27):
Well, I think the last one to talk about is possibly
the dark horse here the biggestdark horse the biggest dark
horse because on paper no one isrushing to include it, and I
understand that.
And certainly on paper one wouldargue that the biggest dark
horse is someone like arthur maxfor gladiator 2 right but what
(23:48):
if we talk about, for a second,a complete unknown right, right
which made its guild at theproduction designers guild in
the period section where we onlyhave two films right now?
Right, and we can also talkabout this idea that it also
made the bafta long list, and ifwe're saying that the bafta has
all nominees, it's there in thefilms that were left out.
(24:08):
But it also brings an elementinto this category that isn't
really there right.
So we have our period films, wehave our fantasy films.
We even made room for acontemporary film, we have one
new individual and we have afilm by previously nominated
designers and we have a filmthat you know has had directors
(24:29):
sort of put their stamp on whatthe craft can do, like edward
berger and certainly, uh, nathancrowley and the team of
universal, who's trying torecreate oz, and you know denivo
new, who's been nominating thiscategory for Arrival and Dune.
So he's no stranger here.
But what about the idea thatthere really is no film on this
(24:53):
list that is sort of extremelyhistorical or extremely
recreational, trying to recreatesomething very specific?
Right.
You know they're either dealingwith sort of mythical spaces or
fantastical spaces or spaces,you know, in the sense of
conclave, that do exist but areagain being sort of attacked
from a sort of mythical sort ofway.
(25:13):
You know no one has really beenso deep inside the Vatican that
we know that this is.
You're quoting something right,right, whereas you have a movie
like A Complete Unknown thathas these photographs and these
references and they're trying toquote them as closely as
possible.
Jules (25:29):
Right and it was a big endeavor of trying to make.
Joseph (25:31):
New.
Jules (25:31):
Jersey into Greenwich Village.
Joseph (25:33):
Exactly, and it's very, you know, detail oriented and
there are moments in the film,unfortunately, that could be a
little bit broad, but there ispossibly enough scenery that is
era specific.
And that does the job, as yousaid, of trying to make it
Greenwich Village Right, and soI wonder if maybe that isn't the
(25:56):
film that's going to leapfrogeither the contemporary piece in
Conclave or Nosferatu, which isjust too new in terms of being
introduced to both the designerand Robert Eggers.
You have A Complete Unknownwhich is again a more
historically or trying to be amore historically accurate
(26:16):
recreation.
James Mangold, you know doesn'tdo so great in this category
well in this category, but theproduction designer has been
nominated a bunch of times byhis guild.
He's never won, but we knowthis movie already is a much
stronger film than people hadperceived a month ago.
It's possibly a top five film.
Jules (26:36):
And as we were saying, yeah, as we had mentioned.
Joseph (26:37):
We had mentioned, you know, a while, a while back when
we started catching wind ofwhat kind of film it was and
what the reaction was.
But the other thing about it isthat the set decorator, who
again is in charge of so much ofthis detail, you know they are
a previous oscar nominee.
They were nominated, I believe,for their work on the irishman
right and so I do wonder if themirage of the dark horse is
(26:58):
arthur max but sort of the realdark horse is possibly a
complete unknown sneaking inhere I think that's really well
said and completely accurate.
Jules (27:08):
I think you're 100, right .
Um, I worry about completeunknown getting both a
production design nomination anda costume design nomination,
and we're going to talk aboutthat when we get into costume.
I think it's one or the other.
I do expect Complete Unknown toget a good number of
nominations.
I don't expect double digitnominations.
(27:29):
I worry that the morecategories you put in there, the
higher we get to that doubledigit range.
Right, that the more categoriesyou put in there, the higher we
get to that double-digit range.
I do think that it'll beimpressive for production
designers to consider a filmthat undertook the undertaking
of making New Jersey into circaBob Dylan Greenwich Village.
(27:49):
However, I know that I rememberreading in reviews when the
film was coming out thatcertainly critics thought that
there was work put into thatspace, into creating that world,
but that it wasn't 100%believable, so as to say I can
appreciate the work but I'm not100% convinced that it's New
(28:14):
York.
I wonder if that kind of nuanceis something that can be
present for the members of thisbranch also, and also that
beyond that New York world thatwe're recreating, a lot of the
spaces are interior spaces,smaller spaces.
There's certainly a lot ofaccuracy to them, but not as
(28:34):
attention calling as thatrecreation right.
Joseph (28:37):
Speaking of, yeah, that I think that on paper it would
certainly be, you know, lessimpressive than the work that's
being done on nosferatu andgladiator 2, but I wonder if it
hits just that sweet spot interms of well, here's a
production designer that we'regoing to let him for the first
time.
Well, lo and behold, he'sgetting in for a best picture
movie, right, unlike nosferatu.
And in terms of well, here's aproduction designer that we're
(28:58):
going to let him for the firsttime.
Well, lo and behold, he'sgetting in for a.
Jules (29:00):
Best Picture movie, unlike Nosferatu, and sometimes
we talk about this symmetry thathappens with filmmakers and
their films, and so if you goback to the last time that this
filmmaker had an Oscar contenderand walked the line, that film
ended up getting a costumedesign nomination but it didn't
get an eye for production design, and so there might be the
(29:20):
symmetry to having him sort ofin this kind of genre once again
and this time landing aproduction design nomination
right, and you know we'vealready flirted with the idea
that maybe walk the excuse me, acomplete unknown is going to
fulfill the journey that walkthe line started and yes, we're
possibly getting into that areaof double digits when we talk
about a film that's a top fivefilm according to the british
(29:41):
academy right and a top fivefilm according to the director's
guild award, I know we'retalking about films that are a
film that is now it's a big dealtechnically ahead of dune 2 and
technically ahead of wickedwhen you talk about that maybe
the idea of flirting with doubledigits for this movie is not a
bad one.
I go back to previous films thatare sort of tackling
(30:05):
articulating a very iconicfigure, especially in the music
space.
I think about Elvis and howthat film got eight nominations
and so I like around that numberfor it.
You know that sort of anomination range, but I a
hundred percent see what you'resaying.
Yeah.
Joseph (30:19):
The other interesting thing is that if we were to
somehow consider taking outNosferatu in favor of a complete
unknown, we're going to have astrictly best picture race
between all these films that weare anticipating to make.
The final 10, right, they willall be best picture nominees
between all these films that weare anticipating to make the
final 10 right they will all bebest picture nominees.
I think that'd be interestingbecause it puts them more or
(30:40):
less on an even playing fieldright there isn't necessarily a
name that is so much further outthere possibly nathan crowley
possibly, but he's had so muchmore luck with christopher
nolan's films than with otherindividuals films.
So so I kind of like that ideathat all five production design
nominees are Best Picturenominees.
Jules (31:02):
That doesn't happen often .
Joseph (31:03):
You know, I think it's happened a couple of times, but
it doesn't happen often.
And then the other thing I'llsay is, you know, speaking of
that sort of bias that some ofthose production designers have
in terms of bringing in a filmthat doesn't have a, hasn't had
a, a filmmaker, sort of growwith them and grow reputation
with them, like robert eggers orthe production designer,
(31:24):
because they've never reallysingled him out at the guild,
the baft, at any other award atthe academy.
Due to all that, if nosferatuis strong enough to get this
nomination, I would not besurprised if it is strong enough
to steal the 10th spot in BestPicture.
Jules (31:40):
I think that would be very surprising to a lot of
people, just based on the kindof movie.
It is Right, and you know it'salso the kind of film that did
really well at the box office,yeah, but I'm not 100% certain
all those people who did see ithow they loved it, right, even
though I think it's a strongfilm.
Um, but robert eggers is a isan artist that you know goes his
(32:02):
own way.
Um has a very particular style.
Uh, has very particular themethemes.
He wants to communicate in avery specific manner.
Um, so I'm not sure that Ithink it's popular enough to get
into that top 10, but certainlyit would make sense as you.
Joseph (32:15):
What if you were pressed and you had the option either
include nosferatu in productiondesign and bump it into picture,
or dump nosferatu and replaceit with someone else in
production design?
Which option do you think ismore likely, or do you think?
Jules (32:29):
I think it's more possible.
I I think of those two.
I think the latter that theydumped Nosferatu for production
design yeah.
Joseph (32:35):
Yeah, I think that could very well be.
Jules (32:43):
That's what I'm thinking, that maybe something like
Gladiator 2 or Complete Unknowncould end up doing.
Well, for right now, my finalprediction is going to be the
Calcified 5, the BrutalistNosferatu Dune, Part 2, Wicked
Conclave, and the one with thequestion mark attached to it is
Nosferatu, and my spoiler isgoing to be a complete unknown.
Joseph (33:02):
I think that's a very, very complete list.
I'm going to go with theBrutalist Wicked Dune 2,
conclave beats the ContemporaryCurse, but for that fifth spot
I'm going to leave out Nosferatu.
Okay.
And I'm going to put in AComplete Unknown.
Okay, and for my spoiler, Iknow that Nosferatu is very
(33:23):
tempting and, as I said, I meanthe power of Chris Columbus
could possibly get this movieinto that 10th spot.
But if not, I think it's veryunwise to place a bet against
Arthur Max.
Jules (33:34):
I think his reputation is just too legendary at this
point.
Right, that's a really goodpoint.
Well, those are our finalpredictions for production
design.
Again, tune in to our Twitterto see the very, very, very,
very, very final.
Joseph (33:47):
Yeah, a screenshot of what our final, final
predictions will be Right.
All right, that's everythingfor us here at Academy Anonymous
today.
We thank you for joining usTill next time.
I'm Joseph.
Jules (33:58):
I'm Jules and it's been a pleasure.
The music on this episode,entitled Cool Cats, was
(34:26):
graciously provided by KevinMcLeod and license under
creative commons by attribution3.0.
Http//creativecommonsorg.
Joseph (34:30):
Licenses forward slash by forward slash 3.0 disclaimer
thelaimer the Academy Anonymouspodcast is in no way affiliated
or endorsed by the Academy ofMotion Picture Arts and Sciences
.
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