Oscar Season 2024-2025: Recapping an Eventful Oscar Night; The Good, the Bad and the Ugly of the Oscars Telecast; Surprising Wins and Shocking Snubs; Sean Baker makes history; “Anora” is Queen and NEON is on top of the mountain, again

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jules (00:15):
hey, welcome back to academy, anonymous, I'm jules
and I'm your co-host, joseph andon this episode we're going to
be recapping, finally, oscar,oscar night, the Oscar winners,
the ceremony, giving ourthoughts about how everything
went down and sort of markingthe end of this journey, which

(00:35):
has been the 2024-2025 season.

Joseph (00:38):
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, I think a lot of thingswe thought were going to happen
did occur.
Yeah.
I think some people weresurprised at some of the
outcomes and then some things wewere hedging our bets on did
not pan out.

Jules (00:50):
Pan out, unfortunately but I want to say that we at
least saw a big miss coming andwe're going to get to that when
we get to the best actresscategory.
I think a lot of people wereshocked by that.
Yeah, at least on social media,it seems.
But that was if you listen toour previous episodes, you know
not too difficult to see thatthat was going to happen, right,

(01:11):
ultimately, our call, you know,was false.
It was, you know.

Joseph (01:15):
Yeah, not right I wish we could have capitalized on the
the sort of prediction we hadthat definitely wouldn't be able
to sort of climb up themountain yeah, and overall there
were 23 categories and we gotfive categories wrong some of
the toughest too.

Jules (01:32):
I will say yes, I will say that are so tough I will say
I was pretty happy that we gotone right that most people got
wrong and that was editing.
Yeah, um, we'll get to that, um, and so you know, five wrong
out of 23, that puts us in thetop five percent more or less
derby uh, which is not bad, butit's short of our, of our goal

(01:54):
yeah we wanted to be in the top50, top 25 of gold derby.
That's always our goal, our goalis to, you know, for lack of a
better, you know way of it, ourgoal is to win and uh, we, we
did it this time.
I'm, you know, pretty uhfrustrated about that.

(02:15):
But five wrong in the category,I mean in the in the, you know
race overall, and, uh, top 5% ofgold Derby.

Joseph (02:20):
Yeah, it's not bad.

Jules (02:21):
Not bad.

Joseph (02:28):
Hopefully next year we get even closer to that goal of,
uh, top 20, top 25, I mean, aswe talk about it, we'll see that
there are just some categoriesthat are just so difficult to
get right.
Um, but sometimes that's avirtue too, you know yeah, well,
we'll see.

Jules (02:39):
I mean, I'm really hoping we make an improvement for next
year.
So, um, the night started offwith the cynthia rivo and ariana
grande uh tribute.
I thought that was a high noteokay for me.
Honestly, the production of itwas very nice, was very lovely.
Obviously, those are twopowerhouse vocalists, so so that

(02:59):
was that was wonderful to see.
But I still have an issue withhighlighting a particular film.

Joseph (03:05):
The favoritism.

Jules (03:06):
Yeah to open the ceremony .
The blatant favoritism.
Yeah.
The sort of obviousness ofhaving a huge, financial,
successful film be the sort ofopening of the Oscars, kind of
relegating the rest of thenominees to like second class
almost.

Joseph (03:22):
Yeah, it could be a little distasteful sometimes.

Jules (03:24):
I don't like that.
Again, wicked ended up winningtwo Oscars out of its 10, which
I think is a pretty low haul forthe 10 nominations it had.
So, even though it was the mostpopular film, it was not, you
know, the most awarded film ofthe night.
And so I just don't, like, youknow, spotlighting one
particular film because thatjust happens to be the film that

(03:47):
the general public might haveseen the most.
So even if the production cameout well and it was well
designed and well executed, Ijust generally I think that's
distasteful, I think it's kindof corny, I think it's kind of
the blatant favoritism it's kindof.
You know, the blatantfavoritism sits poorly with me.

Joseph (04:07):
I, I don't like that I mean, it's not surprising to me,
right and they do it all thetime, yeah but I do think it was
well executed and I think onething to talk about as we go
through the ceremony is just theidea that the oscars, I think,
is the first stage to launch acampaign right and the campaign
for campaign for Wicked Part 2for good.
Yeah, whatever you want to callit yeah.

(04:29):
Has officially started.
And I think it started on ahigh note, right In terms of
that performance.
So I think that that's, ifyou're Wicked or Universal, it's
a good way to start yourcampaign and hopefully we'll
touch upon that through the restof the night.

Jules (04:43):
Right campaign and hopefully we'll touch upon that
through the rest of the night.
Right, so it came out.
It came out very.
It was very well done, butagain just the favoritism I I
don't like.
And um, conan o'brien with hisuh, he's a sort of the the new
uh was the mc of the night.
The host uh, it's his firsttime hosting yeah I thought he
did okay.
Know, I thought most of hisjokes landed, but there was

(05:07):
something overall about theceremony that I felt a little
stale, you know, um, sort of, uh, a little sloppy, a little
rushed.
I don't know if you felt thatway.
You know I, like the show,certainly had a mandate this
year of going, you know, notoverdoing the time and finishing

(05:27):
on time, and so I certainlynoticed that it was a faster
ceremony, it ended faster, itfelt like it ended faster but it
started earlier too.

Joseph (05:35):
No, yeah, it started earlier.
That was the best decision.
Everyone anyone took all nightright.
It was that decision right andum.

Jules (05:41):
So I think that panned out for them.
But overall the ceremony to mefelt a little, a little bit flat
I don't know about you if alittle stale again, really kind
of put together, um, a littlesloppy, especially when we get
to the um in memoriams and ohyeah, sort of tributes that were
being that were being held.
Um, you know the supportingcategories getting you know the

(06:04):
supporting categories, gettingyou know one, the presenter, the
winner, to sort of speak on theother nominees, but in the lead
categories they get clips, youknow.
So something about it feltunbalanced and just kind of
rushed.

Joseph (06:15):
There were some awkward production decisions, but I mean
, as far as Conan was concerned,I will say that I enjoy his
humor and so I found him to be asuitable host.
I'm not going to say that youknow he's anything really
special, or the best host ever,but I thought he did a very good
job and I would like to see himagain.

Jules (06:32):
Okay, segwaying into best supporting actor, kieran Culkin
.
No surprise, that was a veryobvious winner.

Joseph (06:40):
An anticlimactic way to start the ceremony, in my
opinion, the one category thateveryone's you know very sure of
.

Jules (06:46):
I think that's why it usually starts with the
supporting category and I thinkthey usually try to make it the
most obvious supporting category.

Joseph (06:54):
I mean to their virtue.
I think that Kieran Culkin, youknow, delivered the charm and
sort of quirky, awkward energyhe has and the room ate it up
and as an audience member from.
You know, on the other side ofthe tv you ate it up, and so I
think that was a successfulchoice.
Um, the other thing we'll talkabout, I think, is so they
presented the nominees.
Robert downey jr.

(07:15):
Um, you know he's talking aboutall the nominees, but they
don't get clips and so veryearly on.

Jules (07:20):
It dawns on you that the acting nominees are not going to
get clips and I think that wasa controversial choice right,
because some people love, somepeople love clips, some people
like specific tributes fromdifferent actors, right?
You know, it's sort of.

Joseph (07:32):
I think most people like clips, though I agree, I I
would bring back the clips andyou'll see that we're going to
see an even more controversialdecision to include the clips
for lead performances.
But, anyway, in the supportingperformances they withheld the
clips.
I will say that I was kind oftouched by that moment where
Downey Jr started talking aboutJeremy Strong only because

(07:54):
earlier on in the show theyalluded to the idea that Jeremy
Strong was in the stands whenDowney Jr was first nominated
for chaplain.

Jules (08:01):
And you can sort of tell that when Jeremy Strong for
those words he was moved, thatwasplin, yeah.
And you can sort of tell thatwhen Jeremy Strong for those who
weren't, he was moved, yeah,that was touching.

Joseph (08:07):
And you know we've had this whole season of these two
sort of succession actors.
I don't think that JeremyStrong was upset at Kieran
Colton winning I just think hewould have preferred to win
himself.

Jules (08:18):
No, no, I think he just has you of straight face.
Um, I don't know.
Yeah, no, I do think so and Ido feel like kieran, if I
remember correctly in the speech, made it a point to you know.
Point out jeremy strongparticularly, you know, because
they have that successionconnection and they've worked
together for so many years, andso I thought that was also nice.

(08:38):
And back to your point, Ithought of the four acting
winners.
I think kieran might have hadthe speech I most liked.
I know it was pretty breezy inhis way.

Joseph (08:47):
All I remember was four kids.

Jules (08:51):
That's really the only thing I took out of it, yeah,
but you know it was self, it was.
It was, you know, sort of inhis way, self-effacing and, you
know, charming and quirky, and Ienjoyed it and I felt like it
played well in the room.
I know there have been somecontroversial takes on Twitter,
which have been all week.

Joseph (09:07):
Have there I haven't heard those.

Jules (09:09):
Yeah, some about what he was commenting about wanting
kids for his wife and whatnot.

Joseph (09:15):
Having bought more kids with the trophy.
Exactly, yeah, I thought thebest there's going to be a
response by one of the winners.
I thought that was grade A win.
The winner for live actionshort film?

Jules (09:27):
oh yeah, people, people talk about that no, actually
people have been critical ofthat as well oh really, oh yeah
so so, yeah, you know, uh,twitter has been going, you know
, pretty crazy with.
You know hot takes film twitteryeah post, post the ceremony,
so anyway, you know.
So I thought that the speechlanded well.
And it was like, like you said,it was a nice way of starting
the ceremony, you know, and itwas, it was charming, I thought.

(09:49):
And so that was Kieran Culkinwinning, and from there we moved
on to the animated featurecategory.

Joseph (09:59):
Which was fun.

Jules (10:00):
Which was fun because it was fun in the sense that it was
a little bit of a surprise itwas.

Joseph (10:07):
It wasn't the favorite which was the wild robot, which
is the film.
It was, yeah, it was the filmwe predicted to win.

Jules (10:11):
We were wrong, so in that way it wasn't fun that we got
that one wrong.

Joseph (10:14):
Yeah, we sort of started thinking, damn, we must have,
might have gotten a lot wrong,right and so that was uh kind of
uh frustrating for mepersonally, but very happy for
flow.

Jules (10:23):
Flo Lavia made history.

Joseph (10:25):
It's great to see that Flo won that.
Lavia made history, you know.
But let's also like spend sometime talking about the idea of
winning an Oscar.
We talk about it all the time.
It's momentum versus stats.
In the case of Flo, themomentum died a little bit right
Because it lost that BAFTA.
Wild Robot had won so manythings, including the Pga and

(10:46):
the annie awards.
Up to the lead up here and umwatson gromman was maybe we
theorize going to take awayvotes from flow.
At the same time, we had sortof discussed how no animated
feature was able to crack sound,let alone an animated feature
from dreamworks cracking soundand score along with animated
feature and then lose this raceand so right.

(11:08):
I don't know where the wildrobot lost this race, but if
you're the campaigners or ifyou're dreamworks, you really
have to be sort of uh,considering where something went
south right you know the ideathat this young director won for
flow, although he's verydeserving you know that he's
able to sort of cross a finishline that I'd said more

(11:30):
reputable filmmakers haven't yet, you know, like the French
filmmaker Sylvain Chaumet or theIrish, I believe, filmmaker Tom
Moore.
It just kind of shows that howsuccessful Flo's campaign was
and that maybe there was a Idon't know if we had thought
that there was too manyinternational choices and that
would take away from flow maybeflow had the benefit of being

(11:53):
what we saw, a pattern of whichis a film without dialogue, one
of two animated, future animatedfilms to win, without dialogue
prevailing over its competitionmaybe the history of it was
really enticing maybe becauseit's it's latvia which has never
claimed a prize here in anycategory right.
Um, I don't know where it went.

(12:13):
Right for flow.
I'm I'm glad it's the winner.

Jules (12:17):
A lot of people are sort of theorizing that we've entered
this new chapter within theacademy, that this win following
the win for uh right miyazakiand the boy in the heron could
signal that the academy wants toembrace more international fair
, maybe more mature right there,right possibly right, and I

(12:38):
think that's a point that we'regonna maybe bring up as we we
discuss what happened over thenight, in that you know, it's
clear that the electorate of theuh academy awards has really
changed right and has reallyevolved and and evolved into
something that's sort of like anew beast, right, um, which is
exciting and also, you know, alittle bit terrifying if you're

(13:00):
an oscar predictor and you knowjust, the landscape has changed
so much Right and it's harder tosee.
You know where this newelectorate is going to place
their passion Overall.
You know, throughout the nightit seemed, you know from several
of the winners that you knowit's certainly not the academy
that it used to be, right and sostats, and our show is largely

(13:21):
built on stats Right and sostats, and our show is largely
built on stats, right, statsonly take you so far.
Right.
So we'll maybe touch up on that,as we keep talking about the
show.

Joseph (13:31):
We had maybe suggested also that on this particular
Academy Awards we may see moreof an international vote.
Right, I don't know if we'regoing to stick with the idea
that that's what we saw Right.
But I agree with you we'redefinitely seeing a new sort of
Academy electorate which isn'tjust going to vote in the most
money-making animated feature,the animated feature.

Jules (13:51):
they took their kids to, or the most popular film.

Joseph (13:52):
yeah, yeah, exactly.

Jules (13:53):
That was followed right then and there by Actually.
I just want to point outsomething I forgot to mention.
It was pretty funny when ConanO'Brien was in his jokes how he
mentioned the call Sophia Gascontweet.
I thought that landed.
Pretty funny yeah.

Joseph (14:09):
I agree With the vulgarity.
You tweeted what?
Yeah, no, I agree.

Jules (14:15):
And it felt appropriate let's all mention the elephant
in the room, while still kind ofincluding her in the joke a
little bit, and I was happy tosee that she still got an
applause from the room.
So that was a cool way ofhandling a tricky territory, I
agree, even though I did learnthat she sat apart.

Joseph (14:34):
I was about to ask you that, yeah, that she sat apart
from the Emilia Perez party yeah.
Of course, which I think waskind of shady.
I mean to have her sit apart,but I I kind of got that feeling
when they cut away at her.
Yeah, yeah, um yeah but I agreewith you, I think it was great
to have her there.
I think it was they.
They navigated that trickyterritory well and yeah, it was

(14:58):
good, it was great to see herthere because she sort of earned
her spot yeah, yeah, but backto the categories.

Jules (15:03):
The next category announced was animated short,
exactly, which we also got wrong.

Joseph (15:08):
So it was back to back wrong and I thought, wow, this
freaking sucks and we couldn'treally comment on this category,
right, yeah, but we were, wedid have the privilege of seeing
all the nominees and they wereall oh, we love, yeah, then the
animation category, the shortfor short film was wonderful.

Jules (15:24):
All of them were great.
We urge you to see them all,yeah my personal favorites were
Beautiful Men and Wonder toWonder.
I thought they were fantastic,but I also really loved, loved,
loved, yuck.
I really liked Magic Candiesand I really liked In the Shadow
of Cyprus, and so it was areally beautiful category
overall.
I had my money bet.
I had my bet on that.

(15:45):
It was going to be yuck, um,you know, and that it's sort of
you know, qualified as thatcharming, you know, um, somewhat
innocent, um animated shortthat they usually go for it.
It was really well done.
However, you know we had talkedabout a little bit before

(16:08):
showing our final predictions onTwitter that animated shorts
that are a foreign languagedon't tend to do so great in
this category, so I think wetook that for granted a little
bit.
Yeah, and the short that endedup winning was actually a short
that has no dialogue.
Yeah.
And I think that greatly helpedin that film prevailing right.

(16:29):
It also was a short that wasdealing with a more serious
subject matter of trauma andptsd um, so I also think that
that helped yeah um also the thebackground of the artists.

Joseph (16:42):
Yeah, I mean I think we saw that there's a preference
for those English languageanimated shorts.
It is a foreign short, producedin Iran, even though it's
dialogue-less, and we kind ofthought that the advantage of
that short, which is about 25minutes, almost half an hour,
the short, I believe.

Jules (17:02):
One of the longer shorts, one of the longer shorts
dealing with a more serioustopic.

Joseph (17:06):
But one of its advantages, I think that we felt
was the idea that voters weregoing to see it and see that it
had no dialogue and so it wouldstick out from the other four
nominees and also see that orsort of take for granted, or
sort of assume that because ithas no dialogue, it doing the
most right visual storytellingright.

(17:26):
That's the way they were goingto feel and that's why you and I
were sort of, after seeing it,thinking that it was a strong
challenger right you know Iagree with you.
I sort of graded my gut here.
My gut said that yuck had allthe, all the things that yeah,
all the, they checked all theboxes to appeal to them.
But overall that sort ofpattern of them choosing those
English language animatedfeatures, you have to go all the

(17:47):
way back, I think, to 2013 or2015,.
Bear Story, which actually Ithink is dialogue-free too, even
if it's produced in anothercountry.
But, those filmmakers from Iran.
Something that else might havehelped them was that the two
filmmakers responsible I believetheir co-directors on it they
were involved so heavily in theproduction.

(18:07):
Right, they were right.
They were on the creative side,the editorial side, the
storyboarding side.
So I think maybe voters sawthat I wanted to reward that.
I think it's an opportunity tosort of lend a spotlight to the
Iranian animated filminfrastructure and sort of you

(18:28):
know lean their support to sortof developing that country,
developing the animated filmscene there.
So I think that all that mighthave been part of the decision.

Jules (18:38):
Right.
I would have loved a win forBeautiful man, which I thought
was just great, and for W Wonderto Wonder, which I thought was
great we talked about how thosetwo shorts might have actually
hurt each other.
I think they hurt each otherbecause of the way that they're
made.

Joseph (18:51):
The specific skill set, yeah.
At the same time, you couldargue that a short like Magic
Candies and Yuck might have hurteach other as well, because
they had sort of battlingchildhood.
Yeah, exactly so.
In the Shadow of the Cypressmight have just had enough to
stand out from all of its othernominees on top of the other
idea that it's motivated bywanting to support those two

(19:12):
filmmakers and support theIranian industry for animation,
right and I will say that that'sbeen another hot take on
Twitter.

Jules (19:19):
You know the acceptance speech by those filmmakers.
People didn't like the way theyou know male presenter.

Joseph (19:25):
It was supposed to be a bit, I think.

Jules (19:27):
I think so too.
But the male filmmaker, the wayhe kind of ripped the phone
from her hand and I think it satpoorly with a lot of people, I
think the way that the femalefilmmaker was sort of treated in
that moment.
However, the slide that peoplefelt was being shown in that
moment, I think it was a bittreated in that moment.
However, you know, the slidethat they, that people felt was
being you know shown in thatmoment.

Joseph (19:47):
I think it was a bit lost in communication.
Right, right, I think it'sinteresting that I haven't seen
a lot of the conversation, butit's interesting that the
conversation has revolved aroundthat and not necessarily that
they got their visas approved.
Right right right.
In less than you know they gottheir visas approved and had
such little time to get to theceremony.
I think that's the larger pointhere.

Jules (20:07):
Right and the next category, costume design, was
also a very obvious winner thepredicted favorite was Wicked.
The costume designer madehistory the first black man to
win an Oscar for costume design,and only, I think, the second
black individualume designer toever win following the legendary

(20:27):
Ruth Carter.
Right.

Joseph (20:28):
Right, who won twice for Black Panther, twice for Black
Panther.
I'm sure she'll win again,right, but it's been nominated
so many times so yeah, that wasgreat to see.
It was great to see him makehistory.
The room was aware of it.
Yeah.
Conan highlighted it, was awareof it.
Yeah, conan highlighted it.
Yeah, yeah, he made he.

(20:48):
He got a standing ovation, yeah, um, and his second nomination
after doing west side story,which I thought he was a dark
horse for as well, so it's greatto see him win here right.

Jules (20:55):
And then the next category, I believe, was
original screenplay, um, whichwas somewhat anticipated because
of real pain, had made things alittle bit, you know, somewhat
confusing, possibly with theBAFTA win, you and I felt pretty
never bought it right, you andI felt pretty confident that
Sean Baker was going to, uh,easily win that category.
It was his, he did win and itwas his first win of four that

(21:17):
night, right, um, and I thinkmaybe that started projecting,
you know the Onora sort of nightthat we were going to be having
.

Joseph (21:25):
I think it demonstrated when he accepted it that, you
know, the crowd was enthusiasticabout the film, at least.
But you and I had sort ofstated that the WGA had never
missed a winner unless thewinner was disqualified or
unless the winner was Green Book.
Right, exactly who happened tolose to a film that was not
nominated for the Oscar.
Exactly.

Jules (21:43):
He took a moment to thank the sex worker community and if
you know sean baker's films,you know that many of them deal
with, you know, sex work, sexworkers or immigrants, people
sort of on the edges of society.
That's a really big umoutsiders in a way.
Uh, that's a really big aspectof his uh cinema, which is
something that really um, that Ireally respond to that's.

(22:04):
That's very compelling andpowerful for me personally, and
so I felt that that was veryappropriate, right, and I don't
know, I kind of, I kind of gotthe feeling from Sean Baker that
as soon as he won that awardand original screenplay, you
know, he just doesn't strike meas the kind of artist that you
know was, you know, going tohave an issue if that was the
only Oscar he was going to winthat night.

(22:24):
No, you know he was going to befine if it was just his original
screenplay win, but that'sobviously not what happened.
But I kind of got that vibe,like you know, oh, I have an
Oscar screenplay, great, that'sawesome, right, you know, and
not necessarily expecting thatto grow into the behemoth that
it did grow into Right, but atthe same time I don't think he
was a filmmaker who wasoblivious to how well a chance

(22:48):
his film stood in so many othercategories.

Joseph (22:50):
So I don't think he was gonna for lack of a better word
Adrian Brody his speech therescreenplay and just be the most
hated man of the night by thetime Best Picture rolled around.

Jules (22:59):
Yeah, I think all his speeches were pretty economical
which I thought was great to see.
Following that category, we hadmakeup and hairstyling, which
was an obvious win for thesubstance.
That was the clear favorite.
It would become the only winthe substance was going to have
that night.
You and I were alreadypredicting that it was going to

(23:20):
be the only win the substancewas going to have that night,
that it was going to be the onlywhen the substance was going to
have that night.
I know on Twitter someone postedthat there's some sort of mini
or there's some sort ofcontroversy in that the lead
supervisor in the hairdepartment wasn't recognized by
the Academy or by the filmmakersthat won that category and she

(23:42):
had to leave before theproduction was over because of,
um, uh, I'm not exactly sure why, but she left and someone else
took over, some kind of thinglike that, and and that
filmmaker got completely snubbedout of a mention or, you know,
uh, an award, nomination, um, inthis category.
So that's not nice to see.

(24:04):
You know that that kind ofsucks, because there's such
great work in the substance fromthe makeup and hair department.
You know, I think everyone whowas a part of that crew deserves
to be spotlighted.
They did terrific work.
So, I don't know.
What do you think?

Joseph (24:18):
I agree that's.
That's unfortunate.
I don't know the exact detailsof the situation, but anyone who
was involved in the makeup ofthe substance, whether you were
a crew or department heads, youhave a lot to be proud of I
think it was one of the bestones of the night.
Personally, in my opinion, Ithink it was such an amazing
makeup job, um, amazing makeupeffects job, um.
What I will say is that when Isaw the ceremony and they

(24:41):
announced this award, I don'tthink the audience ate it up, I
didn't, he.
I didn't see any standingovation for the film and that
sort of made me feel again thatwe were sort of on the right
track that the substance is justtoo off putting a film to give
a standing ovation to you know Imean makeup usually doesn't get
a standing ovation but neitherdoes uh production design, and I

(25:01):
think it did get uh some peoplestanding up for him.
In general, the room will standup in unison for someone
they're incredibly excited about, but there will be winners that
get some portion of the room tostand up for them.
I didn't see anyone go too nutsfor that win in makeup.

Jules (25:17):
At least that was my experience right and prior to
the makeup uh category, wemissed another category that was
right after the Sean Bakercategory for original screenplay
and that was adapted screenplay.
Yeah, we forgot to mention thatand Conclave was the favorite
there and Conclave won.
Yeah.
Again, not a big surprise.
I think people thought that wasgoing to be one of two awards
that Conclave was going to winthat night, or three, or

(25:38):
possibly three, I think you andI felt pretty confident that it
was going to be the one win thatConclave was going to get, and
it was.

Joseph (25:49):
I mean, we were pretty confident that the night would
be dictated by the film editingwin.
Whoever won that or whoeverlost that Right.

Jules (25:53):
Right.
And so, after the makeup award,we got the Bond tribute, which
you know which was well done.

Joseph (26:01):
I will say it was well done, it was well executed.

Jules (26:04):
The production was good.
It was performed well.
The singers that performed Lisaand Doja, cat and Ray.
I thought they did a reallygood job.
It was really weird at first tosee Margaret Qualley have you
know her big, you know kind ofdance number.
You know, I like it in thesense that I think quali should

(26:25):
have been a nominee for thesubstance.
I thought she was great in thatmovie, um and so in a way I was
happy she was included in theceremony.
But it's a weird inclusion.
Uh, margaret, quali doesn'thave a lot of association to the
bond world does she have anyassociation to the bond world?

Joseph (26:43):
yeah, I don't think so, unless it's foreshadowing her
association to the bond possibly, possibly, um, she performed
well.

Jules (26:50):
It just seemed a little bit odd, um random, yeah right,
and then, even if the productionwas well done, it's sort of a
random yeah exercise.
To begin with, you know, this,this, this performance, this
tribute, and someone pointed outon Twitter, you know, it's also
kind of off-putting and extraawkward that, in a way, we're

(27:12):
doing this tribute to highlightthese producers from the Bond
franchise when the film hasalready just sold to Amazon, you
know, and those producersaren't going to be part of it
anymore, right?
So in a way that's kind ofweird too.

Joseph (27:26):
It was very, very strange.

Jules (27:28):
The Academy often does, I guess in an effort obviously-.
Entertainment value yeahentertainment value, to add some
kind of to add more viewership,more eyes on the screen these
tributes or these kind ofmoments, but again, they're
always dictated by what's themost popular thing we can do, as
opposed to what's the mostappropriate thing we can do, or
what haven't we done for a while.

(27:49):
Right and so um.
It often feels out of place,feels forced, feels inorganic,
feels, you know, contrived,Exactly, very contrived, and
this was no exception,unfortunately, although
well-executed.

Joseph (28:04):
Yeah, contrived, and this was no exception,
unfortunately, although wellexecuted.
Yeah, well executed by everyone, from quality to the
choreography, the dancers, dojacat, all those things they all
did a fantastic job, but I agreewith you it's.
It feels forced, it feelsawkward and it feels especially
sort of not just arbitrary, butmaybe a little bit.
You, if you're a film fan, youknow the idea that this, the

(28:26):
legacy of this franchise, isgoing to be in the hands of
Amazon, who will sell yourmother for for a penny, if they
can, you know, is a little bitoff-putting, you know.
So I just found the entirething awkward.
Yeah, I absolutely did too.
That said, I will say, andagain, we were, we're going to
speak about it throughout theceremony, but yet again, I think

(28:47):
we have another instance whereQuali was not nominated, right,
right, but she got on stage andthat's the important part right
Right, right right.
Because in the future, Qualiwill be up for an award again.
Right.
And people are going toremember that she was on stage.
Right right.
That's an important part of thefuture campaign, whether it's
next year, two years, five yearsfrom now.

(29:07):
Right.
So her team know that that'ssort of.
If we can have her on stage, wewant to, and if that means
quality has to dance, she'lldance.

Jules (29:18):
Well, again, I think quality should have been there
as a nominee, but I digress.
Well, she'll be there next time.
Now, um, the next category wasprobably the one of the most
important categories of thenight, which was best film
editing the category of thenight and that's when we were
going to see full stop, if thiswas going to be on a normal
night or if there was room foran upset right.

Joseph (29:40):
So we sort of said that this was an absolute must win
for conclave, right right,because conclave was upper the
award and no film that had beensnubbed from best sound design,
mixing, editing, whichever, ordirecting had been able to win
this award since 1950.
, which was, I believe, kingSolomon's Mines, right, right.

(30:03):
So if Conclave was able to sortof overcome history, and it was
the favorite in this category,it was the favorite on Gold
Derby and it was the favorite onbetting markets.

Jules (30:12):
It was the favorite to win.

Joseph (30:13):
If it was going to be able to overcome this sort of
history hurdle, then I wouldthink it had enough support to
win Best Picture.

Jules (30:20):
Or at least it could put up a fighting chance.

Joseph (30:29):
If it didn't and it lost to something like the eventual
winner on Nora, right, right,which is something that you had
predicted.

Jules (30:32):
Yes, we thought it was going to be a very good night
for Nora, right, and soultimately we predicted that
Nora would win film editing,because the history just wasn't
on the side of uh Conclave andnone of the other nominees could
really eclipse, um, the sort ofmomentum that onora had.
As well.
As you know, the other nomineesjust never kind of uh conjured

(30:54):
up enough momentum in and ofthemselves there was a moment
pairs um you know, not enoughpeople were associating wicked
with editing right I mean thepairs was kind of, you know,
deal away after all thecontroversy.

Joseph (31:06):
So there just wasn't another film besides those two
that I think that couldtechnically win that category
and make sense there was amoment, I think, where I felt
that if wicked is going to havea sort of dune part one, mad max
fury road kind of night and winhalf of its awards, right and
just sort of right weep.
We floated that wins throughoutbelow the line categories that

(31:28):
it could win this because, it'shis second nomination, right?
obviously, when wicked doesn'twin that and they go with
something like a nora, it goesto show you that wicked excuse
me, wicked was not as popular assomething like mad max or doom
part two just sort of sweep,those below the line, categories
right and I think we thinkwe're going to see that.

Jules (31:44):
I think that overall, you know, wicked had a poorish
night.
You know it won the twocategories that it needed to win
, that were the clear favorites,right, and it underperformed
everywhere else, which isparticularly odd for a film that
overperformed with nominations.
Yeah, so it just made it clearthat sort of this, you know,

(32:05):
mainstream confection is whatthat's what it was.
It was a mainstream pick, youknow, and it wasn't something
that voters were flocking toleft and right or that it was,
you know, uh, I think, extremelycompetitive and most of its
categories, um, possibly,someone might even say possibly,
a little over nominated,possibly, um, garnering 10
nominations.
It's just, it's weird to see afilm be as nominated as Wicked

(32:27):
and be as popular a film asWicked was last year and walk
out with two wins.
You know, you think of filmslike Mad Max and other spectacle
driven films like Dune, part 2.

Joseph (32:38):
A little closer to Barbie actually, right, just
that one win.

Jules (32:41):
Exactly, exactly.
But even Barbie, the behemoththat it was, fell short of the
nominations that Wicked did.

Joseph (32:48):
Yeah, no double digits.

Jules (32:49):
So you would think that a spectacle-driven film like
Wicked, having done as well asit did with nominations, would
do better with wins, and it didnot Right.
So I think that that doesn'tspeak too well of Wicked's
performance for the night.

Joseph (33:02):
Right, and I agree with that.
We should probably touch onhistory here Sean Baker winning
the film editing categorybecomes, I believe, the first
director-editor to win thiscategory on their first try.
Right, and if you check out ourprevious episode where we break
down who we were predicting towin for the night, we had said
that Cuaron and the Coenbrothers were winners in this
category, but it was not theirfirst nomination.

(33:24):
And I think the other thing tomention is that one reason why
this category was so importantfor us, when we were sort of
considering who's going to winBest Picture, when it's looking
a little bit closer than we hadinitially thought between
Conclave and Onora, it's justthe idea that if Onora managed
to win here which it did it wasgoing to follow in that
trajectory of everythingeverywhere all at once.

(33:44):
Right.
But certainly something like theDeparted and Crash, which were
two more contemporary films thatdon't have that fantastical
element like everythingeverywhere all at once, but that
still managed to win thiscategory and therefore sort of
solidify its ability to win BestPicture.

Jules (34:01):
Yeah, it sort of foreshadowed the night that
those films were going to have.
That ended up with those filmswinning Best Picture Right.

Joseph (34:08):
And I also can't stress enough the idea that Enora won
here.
Not only is it again a filmthat doesn't shout Best Film
Editing because it's not workingwith multiple timelines,
doesn't have that soundnomination.
You know the post-productionwork in general is not something
that you know work in general,it's not something that you know
screams out to voters.
It's sort of, I think, thefirst film to win this category

(34:30):
without nominations at thecinema audio society or the
motion picture sound editors.
Even someone like the departedand everything everywhere that
once had nominations there, andI'm pretty sure that crash might
have gotten a nomination atleast from the motion picture
sound editors.
I have to double check that.
But a Nora really did not getany sort of mentions for its
sound work.

Jules (34:49):
Right, exactly, I will say this was the category, one
of the top categories, I thinkwe were most proud of to have
predicted right.
This was one of our big yamblesthat was going outside of what
most people were thinking.
We went with our gut that itwas going to be a nora.
We got it right.
I was really happy about that.
Um, again, this is sean baker'ssecond award of the night um,

(35:13):
soon to be four, right, um, andI will say, you know, even if
it's not a film, that it's thekind of film that typically wins
this category.
I think we mentioned in aprevious episode and this is
important to, to to bring upagain, you know, I think it.
It was important that you knowSean Baker has edited most of
his films and so there's anunderstanding within the

(35:35):
artistic community, the filmcommunity community, that he's a
filmmaker and he said in hisspeech that a lot of his film
you know so much of hisfilmmaking is.
You know this three-partprocess where you're you know
you're creating the film, you'redirecting the film, you're
writing the film and you'reediting the film.

Joseph (35:51):
I actually love his speech yeah.

Jules (35:53):
Right.
And they're sort of allintertwined in this really
beautiful way.
Right.
And I really feel that that youknow sort of understanding of,
you know his process and how heis an editor who has, uh,
continuously edited his filmsand how his editing is a big you
know part of his filmmakinghelped him carry that win,
despite, you know, the film notbeing what typically wins the

(36:14):
category.
Sean Baker edits his filmsreally well.
You know, um a normparticularly has, you know, a
really beautiful editing workwith tone, um and sort of
navigating this different genre,the different genres.
It's sort of juggling.
It does that really beautifullyand so I'm really happy to see
a film like this win thiscategory.

(36:34):
I prefer there to be more youknow winners in this category
that aren't necessarily theflashiest.
You know in editing and what'smost edited and what has the
most cuts.
You know sometimes it is justas strong.
Just you know in editing andwhat's most edited and what has
the most cuts.
You know sometimes it is justas strong.
Just you know, as an editormyself, sometimes it's just
about how well you cancommunicate the story and
character and tone.

(36:55):
And so seeing more winnerswithin that realm where it's
just a really beautifully donepiece of work that communicates
essential elements ofstorytelling, I think I'd like
to see more of that in thiscategory.
Typically it falls into what isagain the flashiest.
What film has the flashiestediting?

Joseph (37:12):
right and so that I actually, you know, was really
happy to see personally rightand I agree with that, but it's
certainly not the typicalacademy fair.
I did check.
Crash was nominated for boththe sound mixers Guild and the
Sound Editors Guild, so I thinkAnora is the first film since I
don't know when to win thiswithout any sort of sound
support.
I think what it really goes toshow is whoever was sort of

(37:33):
managing the campaign forConclave, which is a film that
is very well directed and EdwardBerger's second try they needed
to crack that category.
They needed to crack thatcategory and if not, you know,
the sound work is also top notchin that film.
They needed to break into thatcategory too.
And sort of the Focus Featurescampaign sort of really fell off

(37:55):
when it did not get doubledigit nominations and it missed
those two categories.
I think that was sort of thenail in the coffin for that film
winning more awards thanadapted screenplay right, and
certainly losing film editingright, um.

Jules (38:10):
So again, hugely important award, and it sort of
dictated the rest of the, therest of the night.
You know in the direction itwas going to head.
Yeah, and then the followingcategory was best supporting
actress.
Uh, you know there was somespeculation that Isabel
Rossellini could possibly upsethere.
You and I felt very confidentthat it wasn't enough, you know

(38:31):
time, to sort of bridge the gapbetween her and Zoe Zaldana.
So Zoe Zaldana easily won thiscategory.
You and.
I suspected that that was goingto be the big win for Amelia
Perez.
No matter how people feel aboutAmelia Perez, the Academy
clearly liked it to get 13nominations.
It fell very short of what Ithink it could have been and
what Netflix, I think, washoping it was going to be, um,

(38:52):
but it was not going to walk outwith zero awards and this was
going to be the biggest award itcould win, um, and probably the
, the award that was easiest forus to, easiest for it to win,
because I don't think anyoneassociates the problems with
amelia perez with me, withzoysia dania's performance in
the movie um, and, again, she'san actor that people are very
familiar with.
So I think that was a veryexpected win.

(39:16):
People in the room seemed pretty, uh happy when she, when she
won, she got a standing ovation.
People seemed pretty moved byher speech when, uh, when she
was mentioning, uh, herbackground.
She's the third Latina to winthat category and the first
Latina to win for a movie thatisn't West Side Story, which is
significant.
Um, the first uh woman, um, uh,latino, uh, you know, with of

(39:40):
Dominican origin, to win thatcategory, as she said in her
speech, also significant, and soit was an important moment for
the Latino community as well.
Yeah.
And so again, not a surprise andan expected win there.

Joseph (39:57):
Yeah, and again she was able to survive all the backlash
.

Jules (40:00):
Yes, and the next category was production design.
A very clear winner, clearfavorite here was Wicked, and
that's exactly who won.

Joseph (40:08):
Nathan Crowley finally wins, though, which is nice,
exactly.

Jules (40:10):
Yeah, that was nice to see.
I will say that these were.
I'll just reiterate these arethe two awards that Wicked had
to win costume and productiondesign and it did win.
Yeah.
I was just curious who wasgoing to be able to, you know,
beat that.

Joseph (40:24):
There's one where I thought it would win.
Yeah, I was just curious if itwas going to be able to, you
know, beat that.
There's one where I thought itwould beat the odds.

Jules (40:26):
Yes and we'll get to that .
Let's see, you know some bitshere and there.
The Ben Stiller bit was prettyfunny with the production design
.

Joseph (40:35):
Yeah, that was really funny, that was really funny,
that was great.

Jules (40:38):
I think maybe some people who understand production
design too well might not havefound it super funny, but it
played really well, because ifyou do understand production
design, it's a pretty funny jokeagain ben stiller zero oscar
nominations as well.

Joseph (40:50):
Put that out exactly um, let's see.

Jules (40:53):
Afterwards came the best original song category mick
jagger.
Mick jagger, which you knowbest.
Presenter of the night oh yeah,his present, his presentation
was great, I loved it um he saidbob, yeah, bob, dennis favorite
yeah songs weren't included inthe original song um and so, as

(41:13):
we all know, the original songswere not able to perform, but
again, we did find room tospotlight wicked and define
gravity, yeah and, and and bond,but somehow not for the actual
nominees.

Joseph (41:27):
Yeah, that was original song.
Why couldn't we get doja cat,uh ray and lisa to perform the
original songs?

Jules (41:34):
I think that would have been very entertaining having
done that right and um again,just a little like if you're
gonna cancel the songs?

Joseph (41:41):
okay, great, cancel the songs, but then cancel every
musical number except the inMemoriam, exactly.

Jules (41:46):
And not only that.
If you're someone said it onTwitter if you're that
embarrassed by the songs, thenjust cancel the category.
Yeah.
No more original song category.
That it's just kind of ugly anddistasteful to have a category
you know for original song andnot have the opportunity to
perform those songs.
To me it just doesn't sit well.

Joseph (42:04):
I mean, and those girls from Wicked are going to have a
song next year.
You can just hear them singnext year, right?
So yeah, overall I wasdisappointed.
I mean those writers, dianeWarren, the guys from Sing Sing
it would have been great to seethem on stage performing this or
to see someone performing it.
Right, but yeah.

Jules (42:25):
The songwriters of Amelia Perez.
When you know the song, thesong, uh, the usage of song is
so integral to the experience ofthat movie.
You know, and personally Ithought it was a highlight of
the movie.
You know, it would have beennice to, you know, have them
have their moment Right Um tohave their songs performed.
The winner here was a clearfavorite, El Mal from Emilia
Perez.
We had stipulated in ourprevious predictions that that

(42:48):
song is so tied to the ZoeZaldana performance that they
kind of come in a pair in a way,they're kind of a part of one
package, and so Emilia Perezcould at least count on those
two wins for the night.

Joseph (43:01):
And it did.

Jules (43:02):
And it did, and that was halfway marked through the show,
and it did and it did, and thatwas halfway marked through the
show.
And the next category was adocumentary short film, which I
was very eager to see.

Joseph (43:11):
Right, we were able to see Again great films.

Jules (43:13):
We were able to see four of these shorts.
We were only not able to seeDeath by Numbers, which looks
really good too.
It looks really good.
We saw I Am Ready Warden,incident Instruments of a
Beating Heart and the Only Girlin the Orchestra.

Joseph (43:24):
Incident easily.
One of the best films nominatedperiod.

Jules (43:30):
Yes, Incident is the clear best short nominated of
all the three short categoriesand, as you said, one of the
best films that were nominatedthat night period.
An astounding piece of work.

Joseph (43:44):
By Bill Morrison.
Yeah, I believe he made acouple of documentary features.
A powerful piece of work byBill Morrison.
I believe he's made a couple ofdocumentary features Maybe this
sort of introduces him to morevoters.
I think would be the good thinghere.

Jules (43:53):
I was happy to see that he got a nomination Again.
Just an incredible piece offilmmaking.
Some people had stipulated thatpossibly it could win.
I thought that it was.
Oh, it's impossible yeah thatkind of film just doesn't win
this category.

Joseph (44:06):
Cerebral right and people were going to look down
upon it.
I think because of the way itwas made right, right, which is
sort of reappropriating thisfootage and sort of piecing it
together and not sort of thetraditional yeah you know
portrait piece or interviewpiece or fly on the wall piece.

Jules (44:20):
So a very interesting film an incredible, incredible,
incredible film.
I think you should all check itout.
Um, and we predicted the onlygirl in the ark or start will
win and thankfully it did win.
It closed the gap because I amready.

Joseph (44:32):
Warden was the favorite, but it closed the gap at the
end and you and I had talkedabout at least I felt that the
sort of small hollywood factorthat's going on there was going
to help it.
The, the.
Netflix release was going tohelp it.

Jules (44:46):
There are a lot of elements in that short film that
are, you know, certainlyhelping it.
You know, kind of go all theway to that win the background
of that artist of Oren, you know, having parents who were in the
film industry early on.
I think this category likes alot of sort of musical
documentaries as well, so that'sgoing to do well.

Joseph (45:08):
Um, I just felt like an older generation was going to
look at this short and respondto it heavily um, there was a
moment when I had theorized andI I told you this after I saw
them that what we might have issort of a double down on the two
texas short films one of thembeing I'm ready warden with the

(45:28):
idea of the death penalty intexas, right, right.
And the other one being a shortfilm in live action, right right
so that was a theory of minethat that could be one of the
headlines coming out of theawards that the academy was
going to sort of push forwardthis statement that you know.
It's very important to look atthese two shorts that have very
important issues in Americaright now in the United.

(45:50):
States right now.
That did not come to fruitionin either category really but
certainly not here.

Jules (45:55):
Right, I had said that you know, having Death by
Numbers, I Am Ready, warden andIncident kind of all have their
political charge that they wereall going to take away votes
from each other.
Yeah, and I was going to help amovie like the only girl in the
orchestra which kind of standsout a little bit amidst that
pack, yeah, and I think that'ssomething that definitely
happened in that category.
Um, let's see.

(46:17):
Uh, so we got that one right,thankfully.
The next category was acategory that a lot of people
were anticipating, which wasdocumentary film.
We had predicted no Other Land.
No Other Land was the clearfavor in that category.

Joseph (46:30):
It was tricky, though after that, after Lost Right.

Jules (46:32):
There was some, you know there was some thinking that
possibly again, maybe possiblytoo controversial, too current
kind of film to win in thiscategory.
Yeah.
Considering thePalestinian-Israeli conflict
that's ongoing and other peoplewho thought that that was
something that was really goingto help the film go all the way

(46:53):
to the end.
It's a very, very powerfuldocumentary that unfortunately,
still does not have adistributor, unsurprisingly In
the United States unsurprisingly, but I think the timeliness of
the subject matter and, again,it's an incredible documentary
prevailed and it won thatcategory and I think a lot of
people were happy to be able tosee the representatives of the

(47:13):
film.

Joseph (47:13):
Both protagonists, exactly both protagonists, great
speech.

Jules (47:16):
I think it was the best speech of the night, my favorite
yeah, it was the best speech ofthe night.
It was very moving, it was verypowerful, it was very direct,
it was very, you know, uh,precise, succinct and compelling
.

Joseph (47:29):
It was a great speech.
I think it was very uh classyfor the academy to give them
that moment.

Jules (47:32):
Yeah, and um, I was really happy to see that and I
think I can say for most of uswe were happy to see that one
for that documentary now, ifsomeone would just release it.
Yes, please, please, please.
People need to see thisdocumentary film.
The next category was sounddesign, and you and I were, you
know, very much anticipatingthis category.
We were going out on a limb andsaying that it wasn't going to

(47:55):
be Dune Part 2, which was thefavorite.
Why?
Because it lacked the editingnomination.
Exactly, exactly.

Joseph (48:01):
And that it was too close to Dune, part 1.
Right exactly, right, exactly.
And that it was too close todune part one.
Right, and that when dune parttwo wins at bafta you know it
was nominated seven times atbafta compared to only five
times at the academy right couldit really win two academy
awards?

Jules (48:13):
right and underperform with five nominations, yeah
right.

Joseph (48:16):
And then everyone was sort of on pins and needles
because they thought the upsethere was a complete unknown
right, right, because it had wonthe cinema audio society.
But we said the problem with acomplete unknown is not just
that it doesn't have an editingnomination, which is pretty
vital to winning sound most ofthe time, right, but also that
it didn't get a BAFTA nomination, right, right.

(48:36):
And so we were sort of thinkingif there's anyone that could
upset Dune here, it would bewicked, right, why?
here it would be wicked.
Why?
Because this is the same sortof category that gave awards to
let me rob, to dream girls tochicago.
They like visual effects film.
Well, let me rob is likechicago with the visual effects
nomination.

Jules (48:52):
And we also said that for musicals who that technically
do well in this category, for amusical like wicked to do as
well as those musicals did interms of nominations and also
get a category like visualeffects and editing, and also
got a category like film editingthat it kind of had everything
in its arsenal to prevail hereand win this category.
It would be another coup forwicked yeah uh, which again we

(49:15):
thought could you know reallycapitalize on this sort of
spectacle?
Uh, you know status, and so youknow we were going all in on
wicked.
And then they announced thewinner and it's freaking Dune
Part 2.
And now, instead of getting youknow, I think by now we're by.

Joseph (49:32):
I think we're three down yeah we're two down.

Jules (49:34):
No, we're two down.
Um, cause they haven't saidlive action short yet, um, so
we've got two down and now wehave our third down and you know
I'm pretty frustrated, I'mpretty upset.
You know, the BAFTA win, Ithink, was a big reason people
were predicting Doom Part 2 towin, carrying that momentum or
maybe the BAFTA revealing thatyou know, that movie was safe in

(49:58):
this category, and I was justso frustrated we got that one
wrong because again it was aclear favorite and it just
didn't make sense to us.
But that's exactly whathappened.
Doom part two won best soundand I'll also say that the win
for doom part two here.
To me it came across like thereare several people within this
academy, in the phase two partof this academy, again, there's

(50:21):
a phase one for people who votefor nominations, which is
different from the phase two forpeople who vote for winners,
which is the academy at large.
You and I have hypothesized fora very long time that the group
of people who are voting forthe nominations is a much
smaller group.
But overall this one for DoomPart Two made it clear to me
that the academy at large wouldhave wanted to see more

(50:42):
nominations for Doom Part 2.

Joseph (50:44):
It's interesting because I agree with what you're saying
at the same time.
But by this moment in theceremony, bafta has more or less
lined up pretty well, with theAcademy Only missing one tech
right, which was Anora, whichwas the most telling tech.

Jules (51:05):
But other than that BAFTA .
Well, I mean they missed thedocumentary category as well.
I mean the craft categories,the craft categories, yeah, in
the craft categories.

Joseph (51:13):
they're getting most of them right.
They missed the editing one forOnora and Conclave.
They still get it for soundthey give it to Dune.
But I think it goes to show youhow important it was that the
Academy diverged from BAFTA inthat editing category, but how
it's sort of more or less prettysimilar in those other tech

(51:34):
categories.
So we're kind of in this awkwardplace where BAFTA, by the end
of the night, we're going to see.
Bafta had a huge hand in a lotof these winners.
Yeah, At the same time, in acouple of very pivotal races,
BAFTA fell short including filmediting, Right exactly.
So we should have stuck withthe BAFTA winner here.

Jules (51:50):
Yeah, we should have, we should have, and, and kicking
myself that we didn't pick thefront runner there.

Joseph (51:56):
So that's three down and I'm pretty pissed at Wicked, to
be perfectly honest, becausewhat the hell Wicked?

Jules (52:00):
should have won this Right and it made sense for
Wicked to win this.
But, like I said, I think itjust becomes clear that as a
whole, the Academy would haveliked to see Dune Part 2 have
more of a presence here.
Possibly a nomination for bestdirector, possibly a nomination
for best film editing, possiblya nomination for best costume
Makeup you know makeup.
I think the Academy at largewould have liked to have seen

(52:22):
more Dune Part 2 in generalRight.
Next category was visualeffects Easy win here for Dune
Part 2.

Joseph (52:30):
The Dune section of the ceremony.

Jules (52:31):
The Dune, Part 2 section, and you know it performed with
flying colors.

Joseph (52:37):
It's kind of weird.
How do you not know the winnersin advance and put both these
wins back to back?
I'm just saying a little bitweird to me right, so again,
doom part two prevailed there.

Jules (52:46):
And then the next category is live action short
film.
Right, okay, so far, so far,it's wrong it's like no, these
categories shouldn't even count.

Joseph (52:55):
They're wonderful films, but no one's going to get these
right.

Jules (52:57):
No, there are other years where the favorite seems more
obvious.
I think this was a year wherethe favorite was less obvious in
all three of the shortcategories.

Joseph (53:07):
I think the favorite was obvious.
No, it just fell short.

Jules (53:09):
No, no, no, I don't think it was as obvious.
I think last year we hadfreaking Wes Anderson win live
action shorts.

Joseph (53:15):
That was a scam and Wes Anderson didn't even go and pick
up that reward.
Please take that back.

Jules (53:20):
No, but my point is that for the live action shorts, I do
think there are other yearswhere the winner feels just more
clear.
I think this year it felt alittle bit more nebulous, like
two or three or four werecompeting for the win here.
You know there was a lastminute surge, but we had
predicted it before that lastminute surge.
It was tight that Aileen pardonme stood the best opportunity to

(53:45):
win this, typically the filmthat wins this category at least
recently, the trend has beenthat they're usually English
language speaking short films.
Just the political, politicaltimeliness of a lean was going
to help it prevail and win thiscategory, so you and I were
predicting that that's what Mikegot said.

(54:05):
That wasn't the favorite,though.
The favorite was um the man whocould not remain silent Again.
We had the opportunity to seeall these shorts and I liked
most of them.
They were successful see allthese shorts and I liked most of
them.
Are successful.
I liked most of them.
I will say that Aileen, whichwas the one we were predicting
was my, was my least favorite.

Joseph (54:20):
I enjoyed it.

Jules (54:21):
I was my least favorite, um, but I really liked the man
who could not remain silent.
And my favorite one of thecategory was I'm not a robot.
I thought that was really, uh,well done, very clever, um, uh,
compelling.
You know, I really liked thatshort.
That was my personal pick.
I just thought that, again, theforeign aspect of it and that

(54:44):
typically those kind of you knowsharp, clever, you know
somewhat comedic, humorous shortfilms don't tend to do so great
in this category.
They like more dramatic work,sometimes sentimentality.
So again I thought that thatfilm was on the outs here, but
again it was my favorite.
The favorite for everyone atlarge was the man who Could Not

(55:06):
Remain Silent.

Joseph (55:06):
Which was based on a true story.

Jules (55:08):
Right, and I thought that was a very powerful short as
well.
I really liked that one.
And then last minute it becameAline who became the favorite,
which was probably the most, Isuppose, relevant topic.
Right right, exactly Right foron the United States side.
Right again, but we hadpredicted that before.
The last minute.
Storage before everyone else.

Joseph (55:25):
Yeah, our gut said that Aline would be a thing they kind
of go for was close.
Yes, some people had said thelast ranger was also.

Jules (55:35):
There were some people floating that the last ranger is
a possible you know kind ofsomething that could, you know,
tug at the heartstrings ofvoters and we also thought that
when we saw Anuja, sort of thecredit sequence of Anuja if it
did win would be instrumental insort of getting it that win
right, right, right.
But the winner ended up beingI'm Not a Robot.

Joseph (55:55):
Which was your?

Jules (55:55):
favorite Was my favorite, and so I'm actually really
happy that that short won.
I'm just really frustrated thatI didn't predict my favorite
Right, but again, I was going.
Your favorites hardly ever win.

Joseph (56:06):
I'm saying a person's personal favorites hardly ever
win.
It's a bad thing to go onListen the first, I think,
foreign language short film towin, since I think maybe 10
years yeah.

Jules (56:18):
Something like that, maybe a little bit longer.

Joseph (56:20):
Yeah, so it does not happen often.
I will say that when I saw itand I agree with you I enjoyed
it immensely and I think it'sthe film that Companion should
have been Spoiler alert.
But I thought it was the filmthat demonstrated a writer, a
director, a producing team thatwas ready to make an expanded
feature ready to make a firstfilm, right, Sort of a plug and

(56:42):
play sort of movie.
All the other films as well,done as they are, you don't
really see, necessarily, itdoesn't shout out, oh well, I'm
ready to pay this person to makethis film.
But this film I'm Not a Robot,I think does shout that Right,
right, Great to see a female.

Jules (56:57):
I believe filmmaker?
Yes, and they had a really goodspeech.
I really like the speech.
They referenced the Kieran.

Joseph (57:02):
Colfin thing, I'm not having your baby.
Yeah, it was like verymatter-of-factly.
I'm not having your childrenbecause I won this award.
Yeah, an Oscar's fine, but no.

Jules (57:12):
But no, I really liked her speech quite a bit, so I was
really happy for the win.
I'm just really frustrated thatwe got it wrong and now we're
down to four wrong, and so I'malready kicking myself because I
wanted to get three max.
But, at least we got one shortright.
I mean.

Joseph (57:29):
I'm not happy about that .
I think we did better than mostpeople.

Jules (57:32):
No, still, I don't know.
So that's frustrating.
There were moments, rightbefore we got to the memoriam
Sprinkle Doral where, um, theywere paying tribute to, uh,
filmmakers, to filmmakers, toartists that we lost.
Morgan Freeman came out andpaid tribute to Gene Hackman.
Right before he tragically losthis life and, uh, his wife as

(57:54):
well.
Um uh, just days before theceremony Extraordinary actor.
Extraordinary actor.
It would seems like absolutelytragic circumstances.
They're still investigating, Ithink, what happened.
So that's just a tragic storyall around.

Joseph (58:09):
Our heart goes out to our loved ones, our family
members.

Jules (58:13):
And such a great loss for the film community, you know.

Joseph (58:15):
Gene.

Jules (58:15):
Hackman is one of the all-time greats.
He could do anything, anything,absolutely anything.

Joseph (58:21):
And, like I will say that, if you're someone from the
younger generation, you can puton Gene Hackman from the 60s or
70s and it's just as effectiveas anything he made later in
life.
Yeah.
You know I love Gene Hackmanand everything, but I'll always
remember being 11 years old andwatching him in theaters in
Heartbreakers and absolutelysplitting my gut laughing at him

(58:45):
.
Yeah, absolutely fantasticactor, he could do anything.

Jules (58:48):
An incredible actor and such a huge loss for the
community, and he will beincredibly, incredibly missed,
and so they paid tribute to him.
Quincy Jones also got a tributefrom Oprah Winfrey and Whoopi
Goldberg yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
But I want to say that was later on, that was
later on.

Jules (59:04):
But I'm going to mention that.
You know, I think that therewas a missed opportunity here to
pay tribute to one of thegreatest filmmakers to ever live
.
David Lynch, many of us arestill recovering from that loss.
You know it feels like a blackhole loss, personally to me I'm
sure to you as well David Lynchis one of our you know heroes,

(59:31):
um, who tragically passedrecently and there's a missed
opportunity there.
You know Isabella Rossellinifinally managing to get a
nomination at 72 years old.
Tell me how that happens, um,she beautifully.
She wore blue velvet as atribute to david lynch.
her date was her date was lauradern, it was a beautiful moment
how do you not?
Get those two on stage.
Yeah, to say a few words aboutone of the greatest filmmakers

(59:51):
to ever live yeah like davidlynch.
You know that didn't sit wellwith me um it didn't sit well
with me.

Joseph (59:57):
Um, it didn't sit well with me either, and I think it
was a missed opportunity becausethey were there in the audience
.
And then I'll also saypersonally for me I think you
should have said more aboutjames earl jones yeah, I think
what he, his impact in theindustry and in american or
united states, film culture isjust immense yeah I wish they
would have invited someone tospeak on his behalf, on his
behalf specifically such animmense figure for acting and

(01:00:21):
for movies.
So I think that those twoindividuals should have gotten
the same sort of standouttreatment that gene hackman got
granted.
I?
I read somewhere that theyhadn't included gene hackman in
the package, so they had to likeimprovise something right, but
I I I feel like we could haveextended bigger tributes to all

(01:00:42):
of those individuals alsomichelle tractenberg yeah
recently passed so tragically.

Jules (01:00:47):
As a young woman who you know gave us really memorable
parts, I'll never forget ifyou're a kid in the 90s, you
definitely saw harriet the spy.

Joseph (01:00:54):
you know harriet the spy and that's a very meaningful
movie If you ever saw GossipGirl, you know she had a very
memorable part there, right.

Jules (01:01:00):
And if you saw one of my favorite films of all time,
mysterious Kid, right, she's sogreat in that, where she worked
with Betty Corbett, yes, and youknow, hearing about her tragic
loss was horrendous um againshock.

Joseph (01:01:15):
Yeah, our hearts go out to her friends and family
absolutely, and so you know.

Jules (01:01:18):
I think she was also missing from the package, and
people have mentioned a fewother artists miss a lot of
young people, because I thinksome people brought up the idea
that.

Joseph (01:01:27):
I'm sorry if I'm misspeaking here, but I think
maybe brad renfro was cut fromthe package one year, yeah, yeah
they, they do that a.

Jules (01:01:35):
They really have to revise that.
And there were other artiststhat people have mentioned on
Twitter, I think in the Latincommunity Right, who were also
not represented there.

Joseph (01:01:44):
One of the actresses from All About.
My Mother passed away.

Jules (01:01:46):
Yes, and so you know it's just, you know it's sort of.

Joseph (01:01:51):
Make that section bigger , cut the Bond section, and I
was actually a big fan of right,the music that they used.

Jules (01:02:00):
I think I liked it.
I think when the presentationwas more artistically inclined,
you know, I found it to bepowerful.
With that music um, I forgetthe composition piece, you know,
but it's one that I've I'veheard, that I've heard before
and there's a very, verypowerful piece of music and you
know, I prefer a presentationlike that which, again, I think,
feels more artisticallyinclined, than necessarily

(01:02:23):
something that's sort of veryobviously sentimental.
I know people had issues orsome people didn't like it and
some people liked the sort ofsentimental touch.
I personally prefer what we weregiven this night to other
ceremonies.
That's just me.
I prefer that they go in thisdirection.
But yeah, some people weremissing the sort of sentimental
tap.

Joseph (01:02:43):
I think they do a sentimental thing so often that
when you don't see it.
You're kind of like what thehell is this?

Jules (01:02:49):
Right, yeah, yeah, but I didn't mind it.
I didn't mind it.

Joseph (01:02:52):
But again extend the tribute, try to include more
individuals, especially youngpeople that they miss so often.
And again, I think that figureslike James Earl Jones and David
Lynch make Doja Cat perform toa commemoration to David Lynch.
That'd be wonderful, yeah, yeah.

Jules (01:03:09):
A hundred percent Okay.
So the next category was BestCinematography.
The favorite was the Brutalist.
Yeah, and this was, I believe,the first award the Brutalist
won that night.
Yeah, again, no surprises there.
I think that the Brutalist wasthe favorite and also the film
that deserved to win thiscategory.
You know, obviously the Vistavision of it all was part of the

(01:03:32):
campaign.
Right.

Joseph (01:03:33):
So that was something I think was going to attract
voters to voting for this moviein this category, not a super
competitive category, thoughyeah, I kind of think that
amelia perez, sort of nosedivedmaria's on one nomination dune
just won and nosferatu did notget that best picture nomination
right um.

Jules (01:03:49):
The next category was international film and, uh, most
people were predicting I'mstill here, even if amelia p
Perez kind of had everything itneeded to have to get that win.
There was a last minute searchwhere I'm still here from.

Joseph (01:04:01):
Brazil.
One or two people still thoughtthat Amelia Perez would still
win Right right, but you and Ipredicted I'm still here as soon
as the nominations.
We thought that was going tohappen Come on Right.

Jules (01:04:10):
We thought it was going to be one of two that that film
was going to win.
At least we were going to bewrong, as you'll see soon, and
so that film prevailed there,very happy for Walter Saez,
who's an amazing filmmaker.

Joseph (01:04:24):
Brazil made history the first Brazilian film to win that
category, oscar history forBrazil Right and.

Jules (01:04:30):
I remember Fernanda Torres I saw it on Twitter that
she had said in an interviewthat that was the award, that
she had said in an interviewthat that was the award that she
most wanted the film to win.

Joseph (01:04:40):
Yeah.

Jules (01:04:40):
And that she didn't really care about anything else.
Of course not that that was theaward that she felt she most
wanted.
I'm Still here to win.

Joseph (01:04:46):
I really think, if there's anyone in that room that
didn't give a damn, it wasFernando Torres.
About winning something, Ithink.
The win for Brazil, yeah, andfor Walter, and for Walter.

Jules (01:04:55):
Yeah, and so that was really nice to see.
I think it was the favorite andagain, I think it was a film
that deserved to win thatcategory.
So happy to see that Originalscore right after cinematography
.
Another brutalist win, thefavorite in that category.
The Baptist streak lives onRight Exactly, and I certainly
think in this group it was themost attention calling musical

(01:05:16):
score Right and probably thescore that you know voters are
going to remember most Mm-hmm.
So its win is not a hugesurprise.
Yeah, and again it was afavorite.
Yeah, really a talented guy.
You know, there was a joke hereand there where Conan O'Brien
brought up Onora having a bignight, a good night Right up on

(01:05:41):
aura having a big night, a goodnight right, and then he
mentioned you know, uh, the sortof, uh, americans, finally an
american finally standing up toa bully russian right, and so I
think that joke landed reallywell that night I think it was
his best joke to be yeah, Ithink it was his best joke, you
know, in a ceremony that wassomewhat kind of reserved, with
its political takes, which Ipersonally did not like seeing.

Joseph (01:05:58):
Yeah, but I understand, I mean.

Jules (01:06:00):
Yeah, but I thought it was still nevertheless
unfortunate to see, and so let'ssee, I think after that we go
into, which was weird becauseoriginal score got left for so
late in the night.

Joseph (01:06:13):
Again, I go back to the argument that somebody knows who
these winners are, because ifyou're telling me that you
paired the Wicked Wins sotogether and the Br late in the
night.
Again, I go back to theargument that somebody knows who
these winners are, because ifyou're telling me that you
paired the Wicked Wins sotogether, and the.
Brutalist Wins so together andthe Dune Wins back to back.
I don't believe in coincidences, so somebody knew Interesting,
If you ask me.

Jules (01:06:29):
Interesting?
Well, it was.
Uh, it was interesting becauseyou were having a late night
surge, a late night surge forthe buddha lists.
Winnings yeah, exactly, maybegetting a little momentum here
and then, finally, we get tobest actor right, and the
favorite is certainly adrianbrody but chalamet has worried

(01:06:50):
about the gap we were worriedabout chalamet because of that
sag win and that maybe that wasa revelation of something to
come.
We had talked about how thisquartet was missing sort of a
real life figure, an actorplaying a real life figure from
you know, there should be awinner amongst the quartet that

(01:07:13):
is playing a real life figure.
We thought it was going to befernanda torres, but timothy
shalloway was option two wasoption number two about playing
the iconic bob dylan.

Joseph (01:07:23):
He was waiting in the wings and the sort of the poetry
of him winning at the age of 29which was sort of tying adrian
brody as the youngest winner,for the pianist exactly and can
adrian brody really do itwithout two sag awards?

Jules (01:07:36):
that was no sag awards, right that was something that,
even as the night, even as wewere getting ready to start the
night, it was really kind ofgnawing at me.
You know, are we really wrongabout adrian brody?
Are we really wrong aboutadrian brody?
Because I started thinking well, you know, the sag typically
doesn't get.
You know, they do pretty wellin the sense they do.
You know the last in the last30 years, I think there's only

(01:07:59):
been nine years where they'veonly they've gotten more than
one, uh, sag winner wrong at theOscars.
Um, so usually they get, youknow, one winner wrong.
Um, you know, for the peoplethat end up the quartet that
ends up winning the Oscar yeah.
They usually only get wrong.
We had tweeted that, yeah right, um, more than one.
There's only been nine yearswhere that's happened, and you

(01:08:21):
and I were so sure about demimore.
So I was thinking, well, ifdemi more is going to lose, then
maybe we're wrong and thinkingthat timothy chalamet is also
going to lose.
Um, add to that again, he'splaying a real life figure,
right?
So we were really having coldfeet.
Second thoughts about TimotheeChalamet not predicting him.

(01:08:41):
I almost changed our Gold Doryprediction in the last minute to
Timothee Chalamet, but I'm gladthat I didn't, and so-.

Joseph (01:08:49):
Maybe people did hear his speech.
No, I don't think so.

Jules (01:08:54):
He wanted to be one of the greats.
He graded himself right out ofthe window.
No, I don't think so.
He wanted to be one of thegreats.
He graded himself right out ofthe way.
No, no, I don't think it's that.
Like I said, I just think thatAdrian Brody is just so good in
the brutalist that I think itwas going to be hard for voters
not to vote for him.
Personally, that's what I think, and Adrian Brody prevailed.
The brutalist won its third winof the night, like I said.

(01:09:17):
Third win of the night.
Like I said, close black, backto back to, you know,
cinematography and originalscore, and then we get to.

Joseph (01:09:20):
Well, I will say this in my opinion, what we saw is just
another suggestion that thebaffta has more sway here than
we had initially thought againadrian brody, loser of the sag
award, winner of the bafftaaward, wins the Oscar Right and
we'll see this play out again,right.

Jules (01:09:38):
And becoming the first actor since the start of the
SAGs to uh win two Oscarswithout ever once winning a SAG
award, stepping foot on stage Atthe SAG awards For the SAG
individual, which again that's,that's breaking a certain
history with the SAGs.

Joseph (01:09:53):
Um they in history with the sacks.
Um, they did sort of, I want tosay I wanted to mention that
they did finally catcheveryone's memo or frustration
at the lack of clips, and theyfinally started putting some
clips on, I believe right and Ithink we can talk about that.

Jules (01:10:04):
You know, I wasn't again, we didn't.
We don't like this sort of, youknow, separation between the
acting categories and thesupporting categories.
So the acting categories, Iguess, are worthy enough of
getting clips, but thesupporting categories, so the
acting categories, I guess, areworthy enough of getting clips,
but the supporting categoriesare again treated a little bit
more like second-class citizens.
They don't get clips.
Yeah.
I get that they're all decisionsthat are made in an effort to

(01:10:27):
sort of save on time, possibly,but still, you know it doesn't
sit right with me.
You know, either show clips foreverybody all four acting
categories, or don't show clipsfor everybody, all four acting
categories or don't show clipsfor any.
Just treat everyone equally.

Joseph (01:10:58):
I don't like inadvertently expressing that
one kind of actor is moreimportant or significant or
worthy of more emphaticattention than another kind of
actor, a supporting actor.
I 100 agree, but I will say wehave not given the devil his due
yet, which is we were big fansof some of the below the line
categories that were presentedin such a way where they
highlighted the tremendousachievement of those artisans
yes, and theiracies.
So when you have acinematography category where
you speak about the work of LilCrowley and I believe it's

(01:11:21):
coming from an individualinvolved with the film like Joel
Alwyn or you have Al Fanningspeaking on the costume designer
from a completely unknown,Arianne Phillips, or you even
have the actress from Mariaspeaking on Ed Lachman.

Jules (01:11:35):
I thought that was wonderful.
Yeah, that was beautiful.
They should do that every year.

Joseph (01:11:38):
Yeah, that was absolutely beautiful these
artists are stars too yes, youknow they're stars in their sort
of field right, absolutely,that was absolutely beautiful to
see.

Jules (01:11:47):
I think that was my favorite thing about this
ceremony.
It was so moving to get thosecraftsmen, those artisans, you,
their attention, their duespotlight.

Joseph (01:11:57):
Yeah, and sort of have the camera on them and sort of
listen to and see how moved theyare by those words.
Exactly it was just sowonderful.

Jules (01:12:03):
I loved, loved, loved.
That I can't tell you how muchI love that.

Joseph (01:12:07):
Give the devil his due.
They did that right.
Yeah, and they need to do itfor every category, including
production designers, yes andmakeup artists.

Jules (01:12:13):
Yes, but they did that right.
Right, and some people eventalked about how an original
score.
Oddly enough, even though thesongs didn't get performed, they
liked how they got thecomposers to talk about the
making of the song, yeah, andhow you know their choices and
their creative sort of artistryin creating these songs.
I also thought that wasappropriate.

(01:12:34):
Those were all good decisions,so that was a really beautiful
thing to see from the Academy.
I hope they continue to do itfrom here on out.
I agree, because it wasabsolutely beautiful to see.

Joseph (01:12:42):
It's also great to see, you know, someone like Lily Rose
Depp on stage representing sucha highly nominated film and
such a highly successful film,even though she didn't get
nominated right right and shegot a lot of positive mentions
for that.
It's great that she gets amoment on stage for that right,
and I will say, you know.

Jules (01:12:57):
Back to your point about the bafta getting it right.
You know that maybe this issomething that we'll mull over,
either at the end of thisepisode or as we continue
forward.
You know, which is the academy?
Rightta is the element that hadmost you know sway or you know

(01:13:23):
sort of emphatic positioning,whatever you know in terms of
deciding these Oscar voters,when, just two years ago, in
2022, you know it was theopposite the BAFTA did
horrendously and got none oftheir winners to win at the
Academy Awards, and the SAG didterrifically and all of their
winners were replicated.

(01:13:43):
So it's really, as we mentionedat the start of this episode,
in this really odd place wherewe're not really sure right now
where we stand, we're at acrossroad, it seems.
You know with you know whoreally has the influence in
determining these winners,because I'm not sure you can
fully say it's the BAFTA, whentwo years ago they did so
terribly or that it's a sadbecause this year they fell

(01:14:05):
short.

Joseph (01:14:05):
Right?
I mean, I think you're rightthere.
I think there are other factorsthat we can talk about possibly
having a large influence on theceremony this year and possibly
for years to come, which isboth a good thing and a bad
thing, but I'll save that forthe end, when we sum up the
entire thing, right?

Jules (01:14:22):
So I mean, everyone talked about the Adrian Brody
speech Right, and so AdrianBrody ends up, I guess, having
the longest best actor speechever, which to me is incredibly
odd to hear, because I justremember that Will Smith, king
Richard, best actor speech beinglike two hours long, and you
know it was an emotional oneafter the you know famous slap

(01:14:43):
Um.
and so when I heard that I waslike, really, I mean, what did
we count?
Will Smith, um, because thatseems long to me.
And again, adrian Bode's speechwas long.
I think people have met thespeech with some criticism that
it was indulgent, that it waslong.
I thought it was very indulgentand that it had a sort of these
, you know, kind of vagueplatitudes you know, and it

(01:15:05):
wasn't focused enough with thekind of messaging he wanted to
communicate.

Joseph (01:15:09):
You and I also talked about how he was maybe you know
offhand sort of railroading someof his work in between this
movie and the pianist.

Jules (01:15:18):
I think that's what I didn't like most.
I didn't like that it felt asif he was saying that the work
he was doing in between thosetwo films was so subpar.
You know, even if whateverprojects you were a part of
weren't what you had envisionedor what you had hoped, you know

(01:15:39):
you still, I would like to thinkas a, as an artist, appreciate
the collaboration and theprocess and the process, all the
work that goes into creating ashow, an episode, a film, a
feature film.
You know, it's not just aboutthe ultimate outcome how good is
it?
It's really, it's really aboutyou know making art together
with all the ultimate outcomehow good is it?
It's really, it's really aboutyou know making art together
with all these individuals, allthese craftsmen, all these

(01:16:01):
filmmakers, all these artistswho have, you know, these
ambitions and these dreams andthis creativity.
It's the process that you, youknow, should, you know, adore,
that you should, you know,aspire to, you know, celebrate.
You know, not necessarily howsuccessful a film is that you
were involved with was in thatyou were involved with how

(01:16:22):
successful that film was or not,you know.
So that didn't sit well with me.
I felt like that's something hewas inadvertently saying, and I
was also kind of awkwardbecause Kieran Culkin was in the
audience and so was JeremyStrong, and I know that he was a
part of the succession team.
I think he even got, you know,an Emmy nomination or two from

(01:16:43):
his involvement in that.
So it kind of felt like he wassaying these are the two best
things I've done with my life,or my career.
Rather, I should say um, andeverything in between has just
been so subpar.
And then, from now on, I hopeto continue in this trajectory,
to continue to do great work, asif saying the work in between
was just not great, it was justbelow.
Yeah.
Below that.
I really didn't like the waythat that sounded, that kind of

(01:17:06):
you know.
You know it was justunfortunate, it just didn't
sound great to me.

Joseph (01:17:11):
I didn't like the gum thing.

Jules (01:17:12):
Yeah.

Joseph (01:17:18):
You have to.
You have to know your categoryis coming up.
Swallow your gum or or do notchew the gum or throw it away in
the previous category.
Do not save your gum to thelast minute so that you have to
throw it at somebody yeah evenif that somebody is your partner
is your invitee, whatever.

Jules (01:17:31):
It's just not the best.
Look, it doesn't good.
And then the thing that Ireally didn't like also was when
he asked the band to stopplaying the music Hardly anyone
can pull that off.

Joseph (01:17:44):
Hardly anyone can pull that off, and Adrian Bodie did
not.

Jules (01:17:46):
No, and you know I get that it's hard, you're emotional
, you're in the moment.
You want to.
You know you never know ifyou'll be back there ever again.
And so you want to.
You know, really take that,take it in, take in that
spotlight, give thanks if youwant to give thanks.
You know.
Just, you know, speak on behalfof the film, on behalf of your
career, okay, I understand allthat, but the way he, kind of

(01:18:08):
you know, told the musical bandokay, stop playing right now you
know, stop playing.
Not his first rodeo, you knownot his first rodeo, the way it
sounded, felt a little bit too.

Joseph (01:18:17):
It lacked tact.

Jules (01:18:19):
It felt kind of rude you know, it felt aggressive.
Yeah, you know and possibly alittle bit, you know, lacking
understanding that he had been,you know, talking for a while.
Right.
And so kind of you know, youknow, I'll wrap it up.
You know, you know, I'll wrapit up, you know it hasn't been
wrapped up in a while.
Yeah, they played the music onhim again.

(01:18:39):
Right and so it just felt verystern and aggressive in a way
that I don't think made him comeacross, I think, the way he
would have liked.
Yeah, and so I think you knowthere were several aspects about
that speech that kind of dimmeda little bit his win, I think,
which is unfortunate because,again, I think he's such a
deserving winner.
I think he gave such a greatperformance, a terrific

(01:19:06):
performance.
In my opinion he absolutelydeserved to win.
but people have just beentalking about the speech now,
you know, and so that'sunfortunate to see as well.

Joseph (01:19:11):
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, I definitely have finaltakeaways on this, but I'm
going to save that for the end.

Jules (01:19:17):
Are you sure?

Joseph (01:19:18):
Yes, I'm going to save that for the end as a final
takeaway, but you know it's goodto see him win, other than you
know the discussion that's beenhad about his speech.
Very good performance and againleaning BAFTA's way, and we got
it right.

Jules (01:19:31):
Right, and now we move on to the best director category.
Uh, the favorite was Sean Bakerfor Nora.
Um, we predicted Sean Baker forNora.
This became the third Oscar forSean Baker to win this night.
Um, I am particularly, you know, I'm so glad, uh, for Sean
Baker having this moment.
He's one of, you know, myfavorite filmmakers.

(01:19:54):
He's a huge inspiration for meas a filmmaker.
Um, uh, his films, the themeshe explores in his films, the
characters that his filmsrevolve around.
It's a big inspiration for me.
So it's really been, personallyfor me, a very beautiful thing
to see, um, the moment he's hadthis year the celebration, uh,

(01:20:14):
that there has been for his workthis year, the celebration, uh,
that there has been for hiswork.
Um, just one of my favoritefilmmakers and very happy to see
him win this oscar um, and nosurprise here, no surprise here,
no surprise.

Joseph (01:20:24):
I think brady corbett had a little bit of momentum of
some.
I mean a little bit of a headstart or not a head start, but a
little bit of momentum withthose wins at globe and bafta
overall.
The brutalist was picking upawards late in the night.
Yeah.
So maybe there was some energyin the room for that, but the
DGA has had a fantastic streakhere and they continue to do so

(01:20:45):
because they went with Onora.
Right and so Sean Baker here,really no big surprise.
And the DGA streak stays moreor less alive, other than 1917
for Sam Mendes Right.

Jules (01:20:59):
And stays more or less alive other than 1917 for Sam
Mendes Right, and it was nice tosee, you know, a big, you know
battle cry in that Sean Bakerhas in pointing out the
importance of the theaterexperience.

Joseph (01:21:07):
He made it about the theaters.

Jules (01:21:08):
And you know that he also did the same at the DGA, At the
DGA, and you know, I thinkthat's a that's a cause he
really cares about.
I think it's a cause he reallycares about.
I think it's a very essentialcause at this moment in time
when we're losing theaters leftand right.

Joseph (01:21:19):
Audience members ate it up.
They ate it up at the DGA, theyate it up at the Academy Awards
.
I think it's a massive factorin why the film is able to sort
of bridge the gap between voterswho like voting for Parasite
and voters who like voting forOppenheimer.
Just that idea that again, it'sa film that is playing in

(01:21:40):
theaters, where films belong,and so I think that's major, and
I think that that to me, youknow, leads me to one of my, you
know, late takeaways, whichI'll leave for the end again.

Jules (01:21:49):
Right, um, but uh.
That's a message that you and Ialso feel very passionate about
.
And so you know, uh, a SeanBaker win representing.
That is also a really beautifulthing to see.
It's a win for that sort ofpassion to keep that
longstanding, important culturalmilestone tradition alive at a

(01:22:11):
moment when it really needs thesupport.

Joseph (01:22:13):
Yeah, really needs the support.
Yeah, I don't know if he did hequote it when he won best
director that idea that neonkept this movie in theaters for
like more than 100 days, I thinkI.
I think he might have I know hedefinitely did at the dga, but
I think he might have at theacademy awards.
And again, it's just this ideathat he's something he's really
passionate about very deservingcause.
I think in that that themajority of the industry is in

(01:22:35):
favor of that.

Jules (01:22:36):
Right, exactly.
And then we get to one of thebiggest categories of the night.

Joseph (01:22:43):
Hence why they left it second to last, second to last
If they could have.

Jules (01:22:46):
they might have left it for last if they could have, and
so a lot of people wereanticipating what was going to
happen.
Was Demi Moore going to prevail, as she was the favorite after
winning the SAG and the Globeand, I guess, the Critics'
Choice?
And was Mikey Madison going tosurprise after her BAFTA win?

(01:23:06):
Or was Fernanda Torres going toshock everyone by being, you
know, the first winner in thiscategory, the first Brazilian
woman to win this category, butalso the first winner to have
not even won a SAG or beennominated for a.

Joseph (01:23:20):
SAG and um and win this category, but people on the
carpet were talking about thatidea that you know it's going to
be one of the final awards ofthe night and Demi Moore is
going to get such an emotionalspeech at the end.

Jules (01:23:31):
Well, her speeches have been absolutely terrific.

Joseph (01:23:33):
Sure, they have yeah.

Jules (01:23:34):
But don't count your chickens before they hatch.
Right, exactly, and you and Iwere going out on a limb and
saying that Fernanda Torres wasgoing to win this category.
None of these actresses, noneof these actors, had faced
Fernanda Torres yet.
Right, this was their moment tobe able to face her.

Joseph (01:23:54):
Yeah, exactly, and that it was able to muster a Best
Picture nomination.
Exactly, and that sort ofshowed how passionate the
Academy was.

Jules (01:24:01):
Momentum was on its side.
It had upset.
It's been doing well in the boxoffice.

Joseph (01:24:04):
It upset Emilia Perez at the end for International Film
Right and, most importantly, Ithink, one of the most deciding
factors for us, which again isanother takeaway of mine no real
person, right, right of mine.
No real person, right, right.
She's the real person to win ifyou're going to have a real
person included in the quartetwhich they like to do which they
like to do traditionally.
this feels like it would befernanda torres and if you see

(01:24:27):
the film again the film and thatwhat it's about, so compelling
for the moment we're living inthat we thought that would
prevail and not to mention thatshe's not an unknown actress,
right, she's the daughter ofFernanda Montenegro, who, you
know, as years go on, prettyfamously lost this award to
Gwyneth Paltrow For Shakespearein Love.

(01:24:48):
For Shakespeare in Love.

Jules (01:24:49):
Right, right, people remember that and so she wasn't.
I'm not going to say she wasmost people's number two, she
was everyone's number three.
Right, you and I said thatpeople were sleeping on Fernanda
Torres.
Right.
And that she was going to win.
Yeah, and we had a lot of faithin that, because you and I had
a lot of faith that Demi Moorewould lose.

(01:25:10):
Yeah.
Unfortunately.
You know everyone was rootingfor Demi Moore.
You know absolutely everyonewas rooting for Demi Moore.
You know absolutely everyonewas rooting for Demi.
Moore yeah.
No matter how you felt about themovie, it's just such a
beautiful, poignant story.
Her speeches have been killer.
It's so beautiful to see herfinally getting her flowers, as
she's long deserved, for a verystrong performance and the kind

(01:25:31):
of performance that took a lotof bravery of film, uh, that you
know she's not typically in,and again, it took a lot of
bravery to be in that in thatfilm and to be in that part, um,
and so that was just somethingthat, no matter how you felt, I
think you were going to be happyfor that.
Win, right, um.
But you and I were seeing a lotof red flags Voters were seeing
.
Voters were saying that theywere being, you know, repulsed

(01:25:55):
by the work.
Right, there were just notenough people.
We weren't hearing a lot ofvoters say how ecstatic they
felt about it.
We were actually hearing theopposite.
Right.
They didn't like it.
How often are you going to votefor a film that you don't like
very much?
Yeah, in the top spot.

Joseph (01:26:10):
We had talked about the nature of the film being sort of
a two.

Jules (01:26:13):
A two-hander with Margaret Qualley.
A two-hander with Qualley.

Joseph (01:26:15):
The idea of not a lot of dialogue in the film.
Yeah, not a lot of traditionalOscar chewy scenes.

Jules (01:26:21):
Right, and you know the genre bias, Of course.

Joseph (01:26:25):
The body horror genre bias which only Natalie Portman
has beaten on her secondnomination.
Right, right.

Jules (01:26:30):
And even again, that film Black Swan, you know, is not as
you know.

Joseph (01:26:35):
Quote unquote bonkers as this film you know kind of you
know, you know uh certainly notas gory, right, um.

Jules (01:26:42):
But you know, by it's late, in its second act and its
third act it's really going tothese extreme lengths to, you
know, um express its critique,which again is part of the
experience, part of the film, um.
So it makes sense for the film,but it's not going to be
something that is going to befor everyone Right, and so there
were just way too many redflags, she, and then, and then,
to tap it all, to top it all off, she lost the BAFTA.

(01:27:04):
Right.
Which was an award that sheneeded to win, because the
substance did well there.

Joseph (01:27:09):
Yeah, and Enora did poorly, poorly the the film that
it lost to in that category.
Mikey madison had done poorlyup after so there was really no
reason to not give that to demimore or to one of the other
actresses right, and so all ofthat spelled big problems for
demi more.

Jules (01:27:25):
So you and I felt very pretty solid, I think, as the
red carpet was rolling and yousaw how beautiful demi more
looked.
You know, and just everyone,like you said, prepared for thei
Moore win and the speech, youand I were starting to feel
could we be wrong?
I mean, are we wrong?
Everyone says we're wrong, andshe was the clear favorite, but
you and I in our gut, I thinkfelt pretty solid that she was

(01:27:47):
not going to win this category.
Not for that, no.
And so where we failed was thatwe thought that the biggest
competitor was going to beFernanda Torres.

Joseph (01:27:55):
We underestimated it.

Jules (01:27:56):
And actually it was the winner, mikey Madison, for Onora
, who ended up winning thiscategory.
I will say personally, you knowI was happy to see that she was
certainly my pick of thecategory.
She gives one of the absolutebest performances of the year in
my opinion.
She's terrific in Onora.

(01:28:18):
She's truly having a star'sborn moment in that film.
There's so much range, there'sso much talent in that
performance.
So seeing her win to me I'm notgoing to say it wasn't a shock,
because I just felt that becauseof her young age and because
she's not so, she's sort of anew, she's a new face for so
many in the academy.
And because of what young age?
And because she's not so she's,she's sort of a new.
She's a new face for so many inthe academy.

(01:28:39):
And because of what she'splaying, you know, and how sort
of confrontational that kind ofmaterial can be in the film uh,
of anora, you know her, her, heras a stripper.
You know that was going to besomething that most voters were
going to sort of.
You know, hesitate to give theOscar win to, but personally,

(01:28:59):
for me I do think she was thebest in the category and
ultimately I think that thatprevailed.
I think most voters must havefelt that and or the love for
Nora was able to propel her tothat number one spot.
Whatever the case and we'll digin a little bit now you know, I
will say for me it was a shockto see her win, for the reasons

(01:29:21):
I just mentioned.
But it was a happy shockbecause I thought she so
deserved the win in thiscategory and she was phenomenal
in an aura, absolutely terrific.
But a shock nonetheless.
I really thought that thosefactors her age, what she's
playing were not going to helpher prevail in this category,

(01:29:43):
and I was dead wrong.

Joseph (01:29:45):
Yeah, I agree, I really didn't see Mikey happening here.
I credit this again in largepart to that BAFTA.
I think they got all the actingwinners correct, and I don't
think that's incidental.
They've gotten the majority ofthe winners correct, and I don't
think that's incidental.
They've gotten the majority ofthe night correct, except
something like Best Director andBest Screenplay, where they did
not give it to Onora but theWriters Guild Award and the DGA

(01:30:08):
prevailed.
You know, I was reallysurprised to see her up on that
stage.
I really thought Franny Torreshad the winning recipe and stood
out from the competition.
It's hard for me to quoteexactly where it comes from,
other than the film was justthat beloved and that again it
was the BAFTA winner.
I mean, you had also brought upthe idea, which I think is
important.

(01:30:29):
And we really have two foreignlanguage performances, winning
two acting Oscars.

Jules (01:30:33):
As soon as the you know win happened, I looked at you
and I said you know, maybe wedidn't put enough stock into
that thing that I mentionedearlier, which is Zoey Saldana
winning for a foreign film andthen having Fernando Torres win
for another foreign film andhaving those two foreign
performances be a part of thequartet, which has never
happened before.
Right, that that was sort ofyou know a bridge too far you

(01:30:57):
know, that they weren't going togive the quartet two spots to
two foreign films.
Right, that that felt a littlebit.
You know that maybe we shouldhave paid more attention to that
.
I also want to say that thestat remained alive that I
didn't put enough stock in, thatI feel most people were putting
stock in.
I didn't think it mattered thatmuch, or that Fernanda Torres,

(01:31:18):
as you said, had the rightrecipe to derail that narrative
and that narrative is no actorhas won a lead acting Oscar
since the start of the SAGs andnot been nominated for a SAG
award.
I still remember when KristenStewart missed that SAG award
and everyone you know went upand you know threw their hands
up and said well, that's it,she's not winning.

(01:31:39):
If she gets nominated.
She's lucky to get nominated,because she's definitely not
winning, because she missed thatSAG.
Right.
And so, you know, there werepeople who were talking about
that and I said well, you knowit's different circumstances,
it's a different kind of youknow, she still won the Golden
Globe drama, which has a reallygood track record.
Yeah, um since 2000 fernandatorres, exactly, and so I

(01:32:00):
thought you know that's notgoing to matter as much in this
sort of chaotic year, in thischaotic best actors category,
and I will.
You know we we were wrong youknow wrong because I think, as
we mentioned, you know thatforeign thing might have played
a part here, and that sack thingmight have played a part here,
and that sack thing might haveplayed a part here, as well,
right, but if there was anyoneto sort of beat that stat, in my

(01:32:22):
opinion, it was fernanda torresfor this movie, not just
because it's a real person, notjust because she is the daughter
of fernanda montenegro, butalso because that film manages
to be a best picture nomineeright and, I think, the only
time we have two foreignlanguage film nominees included
among the top 10 in picture.

Joseph (01:32:42):
And it wasn't supposed to be there.
So I thought the stars hadaligned and I will say that I
don't think the stars will alignso perfectly ever again for
there to be two foreign languageperformances to win.
So I don't know if this issomething that could ever happen
to be perfectly honest, if twoforeign language performances to
win.
So I don't know if this issomething that could ever happen
to be perfectly honest, if twoforeign language films could
ever win at the same time well,as you said, you know the

(01:33:03):
academy is going in this newdirection, so exactly you know
it's becoming more international, and the more international we
get, I think, the more chancesof something like that occurring
in the future.
I think that it can happen, butif ever there was a chance for
it to occur.
I think this would have beenthe year.
At the same time, we talk abouthow important it is that she
did not get in for that SAG, butyou have Adrian Brody able to

(01:33:24):
win two lead actor Oscarswithout winning a SAG ever.
And so what is it?
The SAG is important or the SAGis unimportant?
Right.
And so it's in a really sort of,as you said, transitional place
.
But I do think that we learnedthat you know the SAG is
important, for whether you'regoing to win or not, you need to
at least have that nomination.

(01:33:44):
I don't think we're going to beable to have two foreign
language performances win.
A lot would have to.
The Academy would have to takeyet another sort of evolutionary
step, which I think will takesome time to get there.
And we also learned that it'snot that important to be real,
because now we have 2016, 2022,and 2024.

(01:34:06):
Right.

Jules (01:34:07):
Where no real people were elected and they had options.

Joseph (01:34:10):
They had significant options and I would understand
this win better if Mikey Madison, I think, had a more compelling
filmography, if it was the sameperformance given by Margaret
Qualley, who at this point has amore impressive filmography
than Mikey Madison.
There are young actresses whoturn in amazing performances

(01:34:33):
stars-born performances, as yousaid that lose, and so it's sort
of a tough one for me to put myfinger on, except to note that
I think it's possibly aharbinger for the future, in
both good and bad ways.
How, how so well, just thatidea that some of those things

(01:34:54):
that you would hang your head onare less important.
Right, right, and some of thosepeople have talked about the
academy is getting younger andit's getting more international.
I think that that's all true,but I also think if there are,
you know, award shows and stepsin the campaign that are getting

(01:35:14):
less important, you, not youand I talk about okay, so bafta
misses a nora in some pretty bigcategories, right, screenplay,
film, editing, eventually bestpicture when we talk about it
right, but they get actress,right.
The one place where I think theacademy is headed or sort of
solidified or calcified betweenthis year and last year is that

(01:35:37):
the top dog is Khan.
And if you want to be a moviethat's competitive, you have to
go to Khan Right and you have tosort of compete at Khan and do
well at Khan, and a lot ofthings have to go your way.
I mean, I sort of said that hadthe Palme d'Or gone to Seat of
the Sacred Fig instead of Enora,this could have been a
different story.
Had greta goeg not been thepresident, maybe would have gone

(01:36:01):
to see a sacred fig and wemight have had a different story
.
Right, right, um.
Same thing with mila perez,right same thing with the
substance.
So many films are coming fromkhan that it feels like khan
probably has the most influenceon the oscars now, and I feel
like that's a good thing,because you have a lot of good
movies there and it's veryinternational.
And it's very international andthat's a bad thing, because

(01:36:23):
they're not accepting everymovie Right and they're not
necessarily always the mostobjective, in my opinion.
Again, this is a place that didnot want to invite.
I tweeted, this did not want toinvite mike lee's hard truths,
right, and so, by virtue of that, a movie like hard truths will

(01:36:44):
essentially never get in right?
Uh, probably mike lee's film,however many he has left, will
probably never get in.
A lot would have to go right.
Gretata Gerwig can't Q&A MikeLee into an original screenplay
nomination or Mary AnnChabaptiste into an acting
nomination.
Neither can Barry Jenkins,short of her handing her truth

(01:37:06):
to Paul Dior.
It would be very difficult tosee that film anywhere within
the Academy because they're sosort of calcified in their
tastes.
I think the con influence, likeI said, it's a double-edged

(01:37:26):
sword.
There's good there, but I alsothink that there's significant
bad.
Right.

Jules (01:37:31):
Right, right, I also say these two factors about Mikey
Madison winning Number one.
Personally, I think it reallyhelped that we as voters not we
voters got to see on thecampaign trail Mikey Madison
much more often than they didFernanda Torres.

(01:37:52):
Yeah, and I think that mattered, because even though Fernanda
Torres has that Globe win, whichwas hugely significant I think
it's a big reason why I'm stillhere manage the Best Picture
nomination.
It's a big reason why I'm stillhere to manage the Best Picture
nomination.
She was not as present in theawards circuit, in the awards
campaigning trail, as MikeyMadison was, and I think that

(01:38:13):
was significant in that you'regetting less face time with the
voter I mean with the contenderas a voter.
But also the more face timethat I think you have with a
voter I mean, pardon me, with acontender the more I think you
can sort of in a way comparetheir person to the performance
they're giving.
And Mikey Madison, in my opinion, is so different from the

(01:38:38):
character that she's playing inOnora, the way she carries,
carries herself.
She's very soft-spoken, shesort of kind of wilts a little
bit in a very endearing manner,you know, um, you don't have
that sort of raw brash spunk,you know, of an aura and you
have this very you know, uh,young and polite and kind and

(01:39:03):
sort of you know, just in a wayit just feels like Tia and
Thesis of, uh, of the Onoracharacter and I think voters,
you know confronting that,seeing that more prevalent, you
know, having that be a moreprevalent aspect of the awards
campaign, that kind of helpedthem appreciate the performance

(01:39:25):
from Mikey Madison that muchmore.
It was already strong to beginwith.
It was already one of theyear's best to begin with in my
opinion, but that only helpedher case even more and I think
Fernanda Torres could have donea similar probably not
comparison or not, but certainlystrengthened.
You know the messaging of, youknow the woman that she's

(01:39:47):
playing and how important thatis for you know the Brazilian
people and how important it hasbeen for Brazilian history and
everything that that win wouldmean for the country.
You know aspects of herperformance and you know
elements outside of herperformance that could have been
that much more strengthened andemphasized if voters got more

(01:40:09):
face time with that contenderthroughout the process at the
SAGs, at the BAFTA, you know, atthe you know, you know post
Golden Globe, just throughoutthe awards campaign trail as a
whole and I think that thatmattered.
You know, I think that that hadthat was something that ended
up helping Mikey Madison, thatunfortunately, fernanda, because

(01:40:31):
she was so absent and she wasmostly a Golden Globe winner you
know that that I think thathurt a little bit.
I don't know if you kind of youknow see where I'm going with
this, but I think that it hurt.

Joseph (01:40:43):
I had never thought of that, but I don't know if you
kind of you know see where I'mgoing with this, but but I think
that it hurt.

Jules (01:40:46):
I had never thought of that, but I think that makes a
lot of sense.
It makes a lot of sense, right?
And I also want to say that Ifind it really interesting that
every year, especially recently,the best actress category
becomes like the most you know,dramatic category.
You know where there's bound tobe a surprise and people are
just holding in their breath fora surprise to happen.
And then the surprise happensand people feel different ways

(01:41:08):
about it.
You know, lily Gladstone wasthe favorite last year to win
and she was going to makehistory too.
And then Emma Stone ends upwinning her second and people
are like, what the hell, youknow?
And other people are like,thank God, you know, it's just
you know.
Other people are like thank god, you know, it's just, you know.
This very dramatic emotionalcategory for the oscars, for the
, for the film community, forthe cinephile community, for the

(01:41:30):
oscar-added community, that Ithink it's just so interesting
to see how, every year, the bestactress just sort of you know,
conjures up all this emotion andbecomes this, you know, uh,
spectacle in a way right, yeahthis category.
we're all just waiting for ourwinner to prevail and upset when
it does it and, just you know,bragging to high heavens when it

(01:41:51):
does, you know it just seemslike every year, count on the
best actress category to be, youknow, competitive as possible,
you know with uh, you know,stands on either side, and just
you know.
I want to call it like theevent category of the year.

Joseph (01:42:08):
Right.

Jules (01:42:08):
It almost feels like it's going to be best actress.
It's been trending that way atleast, and this year and this
year reached, you know, heightsthat we've never seen before you
know, with the online communityand the stand community, kind
of ripping each other apart,finding whatever things we can
do to undermine these campaignsyeah, again it's going in that
fun, but let's not make it toxic.

(01:42:29):
Yeah it's getting into thatterrain where it's like it's
such an event for people yeahthat it's primed to become
controversial, right, and primedto become, you know uh,
divisive in a way, right andjust you know know it's
interesting.
Like you said, it's veryvulnerable.
It can become very toxic veryeasily.
Right.

(01:42:49):
In this campaign and this awardseason.
It certainly did Right, but Ijust find that interesting.
Every year, count on BestActress to be the chaotic
category.

Joseph (01:42:58):
Yeah, no, I completely agree.
It's been trending that way fora while.
It'll be interesting to see ifit stays that way for the
foreseeable future, because itwasn't always that way, right?
No, no.

Jules (01:43:18):
Back.
When you know people are goingto miss that competition,
they're going to miss that youknow event, event momentous.
You know moment category,because, oh, it's so easy, we
know who's going to win, right,you know because people want
that in a way right people don'twant it, but they do want to do
right no, no, yeah, I agree.

Joseph (01:43:35):
I mean, I also think we're sort of in a in a weird
place with something likeactress, because I was going to
say, you know, when it was asure thing that kate plancher
would win for blue jasmine.
Oh yeah, some of these actresses, amazing actresses, who have
sort of figured into this raceover and over again, like judy
dench and meryl streep and helenmirren you know they're getting

(01:43:58):
older and so they're not takingon as many roles and so you see
them nominated less frequently,and that opens up the race
right to new, new performerswhich is also exciting yeah
right, and so that comes withwith the territory right um, and
actually best actor for a while, has been a little bit less

(01:44:19):
competitive, a little more dull,a little bit you know where
you're predictable.
Predictable a little bitpredictable a little bit, you
know.
Six, maybe six, seven peopledeep.
This year was really sort of lowyeah um, because some, some
performances never became ascompetitive, even something like
jesse eisenberg in a real pain.
But you're right, that's that'ssort of the the trajectory of
actors lately right, yeah,exactly.

Jules (01:44:41):
And then, finally, after the best director win, it became
clear that Onora was going towin Best Picture.
Had Onora lost this, it wouldhave made absolutely no sense.
Absolutely no sense.
It would have been probably theshock of the night, right, and
you know, it became clear afterBest Director that it was going
to be Onora's night and that andbecome the first filmmaker to
win four Academy Awards for thesame film on the same night,

(01:45:05):
right, I think people had saidthat the last record holder was
Walt Disney, but for twodifferent films, I believe, or
different films the same night,winning like four, I think.

Joseph (01:45:16):
Sean Baker won a lot A lot as we thought, we thought it
was going to cap out at fourand it ended up capping out at
five, five, correct five, five,correct, yeah, five.
And I will say also that Fiveof six, five of six.

Jules (01:45:27):
It only lost Yura Borisov and people were saying that
afterwards that if there hadbeen a casting award, possibly a
Norm might have won that aswell.
Oh yeah, and possibly alsosomeone floated the idea that
possibly, if Kieran Culkinwasn't in the picture and there
was someone less formidable inthat category, possibly Yura

(01:45:49):
Borisov could have prevailed andwon that category.

Joseph (01:45:52):
Very interesting.
Possibly.
People are being emboldenedonline and on Twitter.
But can you imagine?
Because Kieran Culkin hasenough to sort of be promoted
into best actor, right?

Jules (01:46:03):
Right People have.
Well, we'll get into best actorright.
Right, people have.
Well, we'll get into thatpossibly.
But people have had an issue,One of the biggest issues people
have with the quartet, which Ipersonally think is one of the
best quartets in the sense thatmany of them I think all of them
would have been what I wouldhave picked as the best, as the
strongest in each category, andI'm a fan of all the
performances to an extent, Someeven more so than others, you

(01:46:25):
know Mikey Adrian but I thinkpeople have an issue that it
feels like the first year wherefour leads won.
Right.
You know, and there was reallyno supporting actor that won.
Yeah, that's a point, that's apoint.
People want to make.
People, I guess, want to makeit more of a point, to make the

(01:46:46):
supporting categories actuallygo to, you know, supporting
performances or they considertrue.
You know, tried and truesupporting performances.

Joseph (01:46:52):
I mean that sounds good.
And so they bring up some sortof referendum to start to start
regulating who qualifies forsupporting and who doesn't, and
you have to meet a certain time,et cetera, et cetera, et cetera
.
Then it's just going to getannoying.
So unfortunately, this is justthe pattern right now.
It hasn't always been thepattern, nor do I think it will
always be the pattern.
I mean, judy dench won this forshakespeare in love right and

(01:47:14):
that win speaks for itself.
I mean, I don't, I can't evencomment on that right um, but so
the once upon a time timedidn't matter as much as in you
could have a really shortperformance, and I'm sure we
will get back there again atsome point.

Jules (01:47:27):
Yeah, I think it also depends a lot on the contender,
the circumstance, the filmyou're in.
I think in another yearIsabella Rossellini, with the
career she's had, she could haveprevailed with her eight
minutes Right.
You know just not against ZoeZaldana, which is is kind of
like a, which is a co-lead, andamelia paris exactly.

Joseph (01:47:46):
Um kind of interesting to think about, though.
You know, had they promotedkieran colkin as a lead actor
and because he's, you know, veryflashy, flashier than jesse
eisenberg, who's also wonderfulin the film, because that were,
if that were the case and it hadgotten that screenplay
nomination, would it?
It have been watched enough,liked enough to crack that top

(01:48:08):
10 for Best Picture?
You?
Have to wonder.
Sure Kieran Culkin probablydoes not win, but maybe a real
pain does walk away with thatBest Picture nomination.

Jules (01:48:17):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a really good point.
I think that's a really goodpoint.
I think that's a really goodpoint.
But anyway, anora walks out,breaks that record and was the
clear favorite with five AcademyAwards out of six.
And I will say someone alsomentioned this on Twitter that
we're trending in that directionthat the best picture winner

(01:48:37):
ends up being someone who wins agreat amount of awards the
departed.

Joseph (01:48:41):
We voted the departed Right.
Someone who wins a great amountof awards that departed right
voted the departed right.

Jules (01:48:44):
But you know, besides 2020, which was nomadland, which
only won three yeah, you knowwe're starting to get into that
territory and I guess 2021, alsocoda, which was only nominated
for three, but I won all threeum 2022, 2023 and 2024.

Joseph (01:48:58):
The best picture winner was the film that won the most
awards that night but I do thinkit's a little bit debatable,
because there was really noreason why Oppenheimer would
lose a category like Sound toZone of Interest, except that
Zone of Interest on the BAFTA.
There's really no reason whyOppenheimer would lose a
category like Adapted Screenplay, except American Fiction won at
Toronto People's Choice Award,right.

Jules (01:49:20):
But I think people are more referring to this idea that
the best picture is going towalk out with a large group of
award awards, even if they don'twin most of the categories or
all the categories, like OnoraOnora was only nine for six,
whereas Oppenheimer had like 13.
Even if you're not going to walkout, you know, with nine or 10
of those, you're still going tobe, you know, the most winning

(01:49:44):
film that year by a large margin, and I think that that to me, I
like that and to me, that makessense.
Because what I don't like is ayear like 2018 where Bohemian
Rhapsody gets four Oscars out ofits five and becomes the most
winning Oscar film that night,with five nominations, winning
four of them, and doesn't winbest picture you know I'm not a

(01:50:04):
big fan of that film, so I ofthem and doesn't win Best
Picture.
You know I'm not a big fan ofthat film, so I'm glad it didn't
win Best Picture.
But I prefer having Anora,everything Everywhere All at
Once Oppenheimer win the mostawards that night than having a
film like Bohemian Rhapsody notwin Best Picture but still
somehow be the most awarded filmthat night.
That doesn't make sense to me.

Joseph (01:50:21):
No, I agree with that.
I just think it's interestingthat, proportionally, onora won
a lot more than Oppenheimer did,because Oppenheimer, I think,
doesn't even pull in halfbecause it only won six Again.

Jules (01:50:32):
Iron man 13.
No, it won seven.

Joseph (01:50:33):
It won seven oh excuse me, it pulls in a little bit
more than half, but if sort offollows the trajectory of
something like the Departed,which the Departed out of five
nominations won four Right right.
And so out of six Nora wins five.
So proportionally it wins a lot.
And so I think you're right,they're trending that way.
I think they're trending to ifyou're the best picture film and

(01:50:54):
you're the favorite, I don'tknow, maybe we're not going to
see too many splits in thefuture between picture and
director, with sort of the shapethe academy is taking and also
the sort of, I think, moreembraced understanding position
that um filmmaking is adirector's medium and so with
this more international,possibly younger base, you know

(01:51:16):
that's even more prevalent, thissort of understanding right so
it's going to be harder to kindof, you know, break up the two
right, and we sort of talkedabout how nora was sort of
understanding.
So it's going to be harder tokind of, you know, break up the
two Right, and we sort of talkedabout how Nora was sort of a
perfect beast in terms of, ifyou're into arthouse films,
you're going to like it.
If you're into broad comedies,you're going to like it.
If you're into more sort ofdramatic independent fare,

(01:51:37):
you're going to like it.
If you're an internationalvoter and you're into sort of,
you know, discussions about, uh,international sort of relations
, the movie also serves thatpurpose as well, and so it
really had enough to pleaseeveryone, right.
It was enough to win the palmd'or, it was enough to win the
oscar, only the second movie todo so right after parasite and
again a parasite.

Jules (01:51:57):
Another movie, that again , there's just enough to please
everyone, even with subtitles onit right, right, and so I
believe parasite won four out ofsix, also out of six similar
four out of six, but still notfive.

Joseph (01:52:08):
Yeah, um, and so, yeah, I think that that was
interesting.
I think everything you've beenyou've been saying is is on
point and so anora was thefavorite.

Jules (01:52:19):
Uh, very early on to see, it was going to be an anora
night.
And again, sean baker breakshistory, history and that's all
she wrote.

Joseph (01:52:26):
I mean.
Well, here are my takeaways.
We've already talked abouthorror.
Genre still needs a lot of workIf you're going to sort of
climb that mountain verydifficult to launch a campaign
on horror.
You need a lot of support fromyour distributor.
You need a lot of support fromyour distributor.
You need a lot of support fromwhere the star is in the

(01:52:48):
industry and sort of who'smaking the film.
Is it the first time we'rehearing about them?
So that's one thing.
Another thing is real people.
Real people.
I think optional in this newacademy.
I think optional in this newacademy.
Not that impressive to you knowTimothee Chalamet to learn how
to play the guitar and play theharmonica and sing like Bob

(01:53:09):
Dylan.
It's just not as impressive.
Same thing with Fernando Torres, I think.
Another takeaway is the genderbias is real and I don't think
that's going anywhere.
Right.
Timothee Chalamet cannot win onhis second nomination at 29
years old and Mikey Madison canwin on her first nomination in
lead actress in her 20s 25.

(01:53:29):
Not the youngest actress to win?
of course Still not, but stillone of the younger actresses to
win, and that's something thathas existed and is going nowhere
Right.
We also know that Club Zero isreal, and some people have sort
of debated that A CompleteUnknown was a strong contender
for the sound category.
But we had talked about how,whenever the Academy has forced

(01:53:51):
10 films into Best Picture, aminimum of three have walked out
with nothing, and so this yearwe have a new low.
We have a new low with two, butwe still have two.
And it wasn't just the obviousNickel Boys, which was only
competing in two categories, butit was even something like
Uncomplete Unknown, which was indirector and nominated eight
times.
Right, we know, that's real, Ithink.

(01:54:16):
Another takeaway for mepersonally is I think that I'm
at a place, after seeing theOscars for so many years.
I'm at a place after seeing theOscars for so many years.
I'm at a place to sort of feelthat if that is the case and
young men cannot win thiscategory, is it possibly a waste
to be nominating them?

(01:54:37):
Right.
I mean they have really close tono chance at winning this.
And if that's true, I mean,wouldn't it possibly be more
competitive to invite anotheractor who is in that 30 range
that you're more open to sort ofgiving the award to?
That's what I think.
And then the other thing Iwould say to that is I'm not

(01:54:59):
sure that I'm on board anymorewith any actor winning two
Academy Awards.
I've seen this enough times andI know all the double winners
and some of them are truly.
I think all of them give verygood performances and are
wonderful actors and some ofthem are absolutely iconic

(01:55:19):
actors.
You know Daniel Day-Lewis,meryl Streep, denzel Washington.
Anthony.
Hopkins, anthony Hopkins,anthony Hopkins Wonderful actors
Frances McDormand I adore.
I'm not sure any actor requirestwo Oscars.
Oscar history is so limited innominees and even more limited
in winners that I just don'tthink that there's a good enough

(01:55:44):
reason anymore to give anyactor to.
It's hard for me to sort ofjustify it, despite how great
they are.
I think you win and you haveyour name in the books and you
build your legacy and you don'tneed more Oscars to build that
legacy.
You know, I don't thinkDay-Lewis or Jack Nicholson, the
wonderful Gene Hackman, neededmultiple Oscars to be, you know,

(01:56:07):
some of the best actors thathave ever lived To cement that
legacy, to cement that legacy.
And so sometimes it just gets alittle bit repetitive, right,
and sometimes, a lot of thetimes, people win for films that
, or actors win for films that,or actors win for films that
people will debate isn't theirbest performance, and that's
going to happen, that'sunavoidable, but I'm not sure
that it merits the idea of thengiving them the award for then

(01:56:32):
what is truly their bestperformance.
So you talk about emma stone andsome people don't think that
her best performance is la laland right and some people want
her to win for poor things, thatshe wins, and she's a wonderful
actress and she's wonderful inboth films and I definitely
think that she had a verydeserving performance in Poor
Things.
Do I think that she needs twoOscars?

(01:56:52):
No, I don't.
I would rather see another oneof her peers get that award.
The same thing goes withsomeone like Sean Penn and you
know, I just I feel prettyfirmly now, believing that we
don't need to have actors winmultiple Oscars, that all we're
doing is sort of getting to apoint where certain actors won't

(01:57:15):
be up for the award again andcertain actors are going to age
out without that award.
So I mean Anthony Hopkins, oneof the best ever, right, two
Oscars.
Peter O'Toole, one of the bestever also, and no Oscars right.
And so at a certain point itgets a little bit absurd the
idea that we're handing outsomething that is quote, unquote

(01:57:37):
, very rare to the same personover and over again.
So I'm kind of against that now.
I think I just don't thinkthere's it's really all that
worth it, to be perfectly honest.
And the other thing I'll say isyou know, I was sort of the
first one to sort of bang thedrum for this, is it?
James mangled is either goingto be nominated for best

(01:57:58):
director here for a completeunknown, or he will probably
just not be nominated, and liketaylor hackford, he was
nominated in this category,which is wonderful, very good
director, although there arewonderful directors who will
never be nominated for thisaward, have yet to be nominated
for this award.
One thing that sort of becomesclear to me is that the urgency
isn't there necessarily to givean award to isabella rossellini

(01:58:23):
because she's 72, or JureFiennes because he's been
nominated here three times, andbecause the urgency isn't there,
we're sort of entering thisacademy that's getting younger
and more international, wherethese sort of actors are are
sort of the highest they'll beable to achieve.
More or less, in my opinion, isthat nomination Right?

(01:58:47):
And so when Sean Baker wins somany, which I think he's very
deserving it's a very deservingfilm and he's been working for a
long time I think it's veryworthy.
I think it's very worthy.
But I also think that I hadpointed out that can Sean Baker
win an Academy Award before PaulThomas Anderson can?

(01:59:10):
And obviously he can, and hecan win four before Paul Thomas
Anderson can, and so my gut saysthat, as amazing as a filmmaker
he is, there are justfilmmakers who will not win an
Academy Award, and Paul ThomasAnderson is probably one of
those filmmakers.
He has a film coming out nextyear and maybe I'll eat my words

(01:59:30):
, but I guess that's where I'msort of feeling it right now is
that you win on this sort ofperfect moment where everything
has coalesced, and if thatmoment hasn't materialized then
it probably gets more difficultfor it to ever be accomplished.
You know someone like QuentinTarantino who handed Sean Baker

(01:59:53):
the Oscar for director.
I'm not sure that he will crossthe line to win the Oscar for
best director.
I think he has two Oscarsalready.
That's true, he does Right, butI don't think that he'll win
that Best Director one.
And I think this kind of goeswith the idea that Marnie
Scorsese was yet again up for 10awards last year and they

(02:00:13):
didn't really give the movieanything, and that's not new.
They've actually done that toMarnie Scorsese a couple of
times.

Jules (02:00:20):
Certainly, I think, something like Gangs of New.

Joseph (02:00:22):
York, the Irishman, and so there's just this idea that
Martin Scorsese, a lot of starshave to align for him to win a
second Best Director award,because the first one came so
late in his life, unfortunately,and without that perfect moment
coalescing, just the timingnever adds up, unfortunately.

(02:00:45):
And then when you look atsomeone like Onora, the timing
added up perfectly.
And so how many Sean Bakerfilms have been ironed for an
Oscar before?
Just one for Willem Dafoe, theFlorida Project, right.
And how many have ChristopherNolan's films racked up
nominations for?
And he's only at two rightDirector and picture.
So without that sort of moment,sort of coalescing, you're sort

(02:01:07):
of reach, I think, a certainceiling that is very difficult,
very difficult to overcome.
I think I've already stressedthat, in my opinion, all the
power has now segued into Khanand I think con has always
demonstrated their willingnessto sort of spotlight really

(02:01:27):
worthwhile films, and I thinkthat there's problems with sort
of putting all the power in oneplace, right, that could be a
problem, right, because theyhave their own interests and
that could definitely show up ortaste, or taste yeah, and the
last thing I'll say is thatemilia perez blew up

(02:01:50):
spectacularly at the end aftersort of usurping all the energy
sort of midway into the season.
But I'm kind again with thatwonderful speech that Sean Baker
gave.
That seemed like the crowd ateup about the importance of
theatrical.
I don't think Netflix can everwin Best Picture.

(02:02:13):
I think that they're out of therace.
I think it doesn't matter ifit's Emilia Perez or if it's
Roma, or if it's the Power ofthe Dog or if it's Onora.
As long as you put Netflix infront of Onora, onora is going
to lose.
As long as you put Netflix infront of Coda, then Coda is
going to lose.
And so if Netflix is going tolose every single time that it

(02:02:35):
is up for best picture, is thereany point to nominating it for
best picture?
Aren't you just taking away thespot from someone who could be
more competitive?
And, like I said, I certainlythink that the industry right
now is going to a place or orthe academy awards where they
want to nominate more films thatare going to come out in
theaters and make a dent intheaters, and certainly the

(02:02:56):
international community is goingto feel that way yeah yeah.
so I think it was difficult fornetflix in the past.
I think they didn't get it donethis time and I think that
history kind of showing thatthey will not get it done.
They will not get it done untilsomething like the theater
going experience is dead, orevery movie took off that year

(02:03:16):
from going to theaters.

Jules (02:03:17):
Or maybe they have to sort of remodel their sort of
approach to how they dostreaming versus theater
experience, because they canstill technically be possibly,
you know, the Apple TV winner ofCODA.
You know, because I think ithad a theatrical release.

Joseph (02:03:34):
I guess enough of one Can they really walk back though
what their legacy is, which is,you know, minimal theaters,
minimal theatrical window legacyis which is, you know, minimal
theaters, minimal theatricalwindow they're gonna give.
Greta Gerwig's Chronicles ofNarnia, imax, give it an IMAX
release, and I'm sure they'regonna give an expanded window.
But can they ever really walkback the sort of damage that

(02:03:56):
they've done, I guess, in theirreputation and sort of standing
up to the idea that streaming afilm is just as good as watching
it in a theater?
That's sort of difficult for meto imagine.
Not only would they have to dowhat you said, which is increase
their theatrical window,increase their theatrical
outreach, but it would have tobe such an amazing movie to walk

(02:04:19):
back what has essentially beentheir point of view for all
these years, and I'm not surethey're going to be able to do
it.
And so, at this point, I thinkthat Netflix needs to maybe
reconsider how much moneythey're spending on campaigning
these movies.
I already know that they havereconsidered how much money
they're spending in making thesemovies.

(02:04:40):
Right, they've, they've done,they've done, they've pulled the
plug on some of their auteurfilms, should we say, and
focusing more on films that aremarketable.
Of course, amelia perez,something that they bought, not
something that they made whichinterestingly enough didn't do
well in streaming, which did notdo well in streaming.
That's why they're not going tomake them anymore.
I think they're willing to buythem but not make them.
So the the roma days of makingfilms like that and power the

(02:05:03):
dog.
I think those days are over.
I think at this point, they canbuy a nora or amina perez and
they're going to lose the oscaranyway, so why buy it?
They're not even doing well ontheir streaming service.
I think what the industry isgoing to require is for smaller
distributors to step up.
Whether it's distributors tostep up, whether it's janice or

(02:05:27):
metrograph that is up and coming.
Certainly a24 and neon arethere, uh, places like um
magnolia, magnolia or roadsideattractions.
The door is open for them topick up movies and campaign them
.
Well, because netflix is notwinning any oscars and I think
if everyone gets on the pagethat we know it's not going to
win a Best Picture Oscar, thenwe can just leave it off Best
Picture.
And so what's one of mytakeaways is, if you're a movie

(02:05:50):
next year and you're going toCannes, the blowback of being
distributed by Netflix, I wouldargue, is not worth it, and I
would extend that to Amazon aswell.

Jules (02:05:59):
That's what I was going to say.

Joseph (02:06:00):
What about Amazon to Amazon as well, that's what I
was going to say.
What about Amazon?
I think that you know it's notthe same Amazon that helped
release Manchester by the Sea,and so it's very difficult for
me to imagine that Amazon isgoing to be able to ride that
sort of Amazon MGM deal and hidebehind the MGM label and now be
a prestige distributor and beable to hold on to the Bond

(02:06:23):
legacy.
I think that's going to sourreally quick.
I think that the Nickel Boysgets in because the Plan B label
is powerful enough Other thanthat no good really came from
being a film associated withAmazon this year, and so, again,
anyone who's campaigning for anOscar next year and sort of
expecting Amazon to make thedifference, I would argue that

(02:06:44):
that's not the case.
If you're an MGM film, the samething because you're
essentially Amazon.
Now I just feel like you'rejust losing the respect of the
industry.
You have to have a lot of powerin the people who made it.
Someone like Plan B, even aquality film like Challengers,

(02:07:04):
couldn't get on here foranything.
Right.
Right.
So I would argue that you needto try to stay away from Amazon
as well, and it just goes toSean Baker's speech.
You know, the industry or theAcademy Awards, I should say
want to see films that arereleased for upwards of 90 days,
upwards of 100 days, right Intheaters with a large outreach.

(02:07:27):
I think that that's going to bekey to any film campaigning
from this moment forward.
So I think, if you're Netflix,you should just bow out by now,
and I think if you're a Netflixvoter and you're just voting for
the movie and you don't votefor this distributor in front of
it, you're sort of wasting yourvote.

Jules (02:07:47):
Well, I think a lot of those points are very
fascinating and certainly a lotof food for thought, valid in
sort of this sort of as you weresaying earlier, this transition
period that we're in, whereit's sort of somewhat confusing,

(02:08:08):
somewhat mysterious, somewhatunknown.
You know what's the futureahead, you know what path are we
going to take from here on out?
Clearly, the academy haschanged and it's changed in a
way that people 10 years agowould not have seen.
And you know, with that changecomes even, you know, greater

(02:08:32):
change in all areas involvedwith not just the Academy but
the film industry, and you knowwhere these artists want to
spotlight, you know, or whatthey want to spotlight, what
they want to celebrate.
So I think next year is goingto be interesting to see what
the next chapter is.
Yeah, I agree.
Well, that was our deep diveinto the Oscars ceremony, the

(02:08:53):
Oscar winners, how we did, whatwe failed at, what we got right,
and this sort of closingchapter of this Oscars 2024-2025
season.
It's been a very chaotic season, one of the most chaotic in
recent memory, and now everyoneis sort of just kind of deflated

(02:09:17):
.
You know, I think the momentafter the Oscars, everyone who's
a part of this sort of feels,this collective sort of quote
unquote deflation.
Yeah.
You know you're exhausted,exhausted, you're mentally
drained and also I don't know.
It's sort of like you put somuch energy into thinking about
this and now it's over andyou're kind of like, oh, I guess
that's it now.

Joseph (02:09:38):
Now what.

Jules (02:09:39):
You know, yeah, this feeling that I think all of us
who are tracking this fuel andso, yeah, what now is?
You know, your guess is as goodas mine.
You know, we'll, we'll, we'llsee what happens here on four.
You know, from here on out, yeahum, but anyway, so that's the
end of this chapter and we'll beback next week with our next

(02:10:01):
episode, tackling a new aspect,um, of the race that just
finished and, uh, the racethat's coming up.
We'll see where we uh, what we,what we tackle specifically in
our next, in our next episode,um, but until then, uh, this is
jules and I'm joseph and it'sbeen a pleasure.

(02:10:28):
The music on this episodeentitled Cool Cats was
graciously provided by KevinMacLeod and incompetechcom,
licensed under Creative Commonsby Attribution 3.0.
H-t-t-p colon forward slashforward slash creativecommonsorg
.
Forward slash licenses.

(02:10:49):
Forward slash, buy.
Forward slash 3.0.

Joseph (02:10:55):
Disclaimer the Academy Anonymous podcast is in no way
affiliated or endorsed by theAcademy of Motion Picture Arts
and Sciences.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Breakfast Club

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Breakfast Club

All Episodes

Stuff You Should Know