Oscar Season 2025-2026: Forecasting Venice Film Festival, Predicting Telluride Film Festival Lineup

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hey, welcome back to Academy Anonymous.
I'm Jules and I'm Joseph, andon this episode we're going to
be talking at length about theVenice Film Festival, which
starts on Wednesday, the 27thExactly, and then, at the very
tail end, maybe we'll talk atiny bit about the Telluride
Film Festival, which starts onFriday, right, exactly.

(00:34):
I think it's an excellent timeto start digging into, maybe
take a profile picture of thedifferent movies and what kind
of impact they can have, ormaybe what kind of impact we're
expecting them to have.
We're anticipating, um, and Ithink maybe the best place to
start is, you know, taking alook at the festival

(00:54):
historically speaking, um, it'sa very important stop.
It's, it's been a veryimportant stop for a long time.
Um, yeah, recently, especially,uh, yeah, uh, certainly.
But, um, if you even look backat something like if you go back
20 years to 2005, um, whenbroback mountain won the big
award, golden lion, um, what youtend to see is that this

(01:15):
festival will produce, ingeneral, at least two best
picture nominees from within itscompetition sections,
specifically the competitionsection.
It's not always the case thatthere's two.
Sometimes that may go down toone, and there's even been a few
off years where you have maybenone, but that is the exception

(01:39):
Most of the time.
You're going to get two, whichis really important because it
means that not only that, amongthat list of competition titles,
we're going to get two, whichis really important because it
means that not only that, amongthat list of competition titles,
we're going to have our firsttaste of some kind of best
picture uh nominee, in much thesame way that whoever wins the
palm d'or sort of, you know, isessentially, yeah, it's
solidifying its place among bestpicture um.

(02:00):
You're going to get two peopleout of this venice competition
lineup, but you're also going tocut out a bunch of movies
because they've nevernecessarily gotten, for example,
five movies from competitioninto best picture um.
So you're going to startgetting the impression of if
there, if all the movies aregood, who has an advantage and
which movies maybe just aren'tgood, and so it'll be clear that

(02:23):
there are you, you know acouple of favorites Now.
So again, if you look atsomething like 05, brokeback
Mountain is the big winner andgets a Best Picture nomination,
and this is a year of only fiveBest Picture nominees, but in
that same competition lineupyou'll have Good Night and Good
Luck and that'll also score aBest Picture nomination.
And so I guess what I'm tryingto say is that, even when the

(02:44):
list was downgraded to just fivenominees, venice has always
been good at letting us know youknow, maybe possibly likely two
people who are going to getnominated.
And if you look at 05 and youlook at that list of competition
and you start to maybe makesome educated guesses about who
could have rounded out a top 10,even in 05, the Constant Garder

(03:05):
is also on that Venicecompetition list it could have.
Also, it could have beenExactly, it could have made it
into best picture In the year of10.
Exactly.
And so that's why I say thatit's if you're, if you're erring
on the side of caution, I thinkyou want to pick maybe two
movies that are going to breakout.
Now, that's strictly speaking incompetition.
There have been years where atitle that's outside of

(03:27):
competition in a parallelsection, but usually just in the
out of competition section theycan get into Best Picture as
well.
It does not happen as often asin competition, but if you look
at, for example, you're like2018, you have your two movies
from competition that willgraduate to a Best Picture
nomination.
You have your two movies fromcompetition that will graduate
to a Best Picture nomination andthat's the Favorite, and Roma,

(03:48):
but A Star is Born plays out ofcompetition for Warner Brothers
and they're able to have thatmovie also be nominated for Best
Picture.
So it's not unheard of to havea third Best Picture nominee
among the Venice films.
It's just more likely that thatthird nominee it's extremely
likely that it'll be in anothersection, and that section is

(04:10):
usually Usually out ofcompetition, exactly.
And so another really goodexample Is a year like 2016, for
example, when La La Land andArrival Both play in competition
and they both get into BestPicture, but there is a third
movie within Venice that gets inand that's Hacksaw Ridge, which

(04:32):
played out of competition.
So three movies could possiblyhappen.
Just look for that third moviesomewhere else, and two movies
are definitely going to happen.
And so the most recent example,let's look at last year.
You have the Brutalist right,which makes it into Best Picture
from competition in Venice, andyou have I'm Still here, which

(04:52):
makes it to Best Picture out ofcompetition from Venice no, in
competition, excuse me, from incompetition at Venice.
If you had to maybe pick atitle that played somewhere else
, that maybe would have gottenclose.
That you and I maybe thought isat the heels of the 10th spot.
It would have possibly beensomething like September 5.

(05:13):
Well, that played in Venice ona side section which was
actually Horizons, which doesn'thave the best track record for
sort of crossover Oscar successwhatsoever.
But if there had to be a thirdfilm you would imagine that that
might have been a really goodfit.
Um, I will also say that withthose two movies that get

(05:34):
nominated for for best picturefrom venice, it doesn't really
matter where they come from.
If you look at something likethe brutalist, last year it went
to competition without any sortof distributor.
You know it was going to make asale at the festival, right, so
it doesn't matter that itwasn't coming right out of you
know the slate from FocusFeatures or Searchlight or

(05:57):
whatever.
And if you look at a film likeI'm Still here, which is again
extremely fascinating, it'scoming from Sony Picture
Classics, which does well at theOscars in general.
But Sony Picture Classics hasnever actually had a movie in
Venice competition that had madeit into Best Picture, not since
2005 at least, and so that'skind of a big historic thing for

(06:19):
them to have a movie at Venicein competition, go to a Best
Picture nomination.
They hadn't really done that,at least not since 05.
So not only is that a big deal,but if you kind of look at it,
if you run through the list ofwhat those movies are, those two
movies that make it into BestPicture foreign films are not
necessarily, or foreign languagefilms are not necessarily, the

(06:43):
best odds.
It tends to be more Englishlanguage.
So, for example, in 2019, youhad Joker and Marriage Story
English language.
2017, you had Shape of Water,three Billboards English
language, and so they tend tofavor English language films.
2022, you had Banshees ofEinisharan and Tar, and so the
fact that Sony Picture Classics,which doesn't do it often, was

(07:11):
able to do it for a foreign film, and that the other film
happened to be this, thisenormous three-hour epic that
didn't even have a distributorwith it, it just goes to show
you that just the quality andtaste of the films match well
enough with the industry votersthat you should see two movies.
Get in Now, if you do.
If you, it has happened that youjust see one, but especially
when you expand that list to 10nominees, you force 10 nominees

(07:35):
I think the odds favor two, andso, for example, a few years
that only saw one.
For example, in 2021, only onecompetition title made it into
best picture, which was power ofthe dog, which was a huge
success, but dune played out ofcompetition and made it to best
picture also.
So, again, maybe not three fromvenice a year, but you still
had to.
You look at something like 2020nomadland was the big winner

(07:59):
and it made it into best picture, and it was a year of only
eight nominees.
I believe one night in miamiwas playing supposedly, um in us
was a year of only eightnominees.
I believe One Night in Miamiwas playing supposedly out of
competition section, and hadthere been a forced 10 nominees,
it would have been an excellentbet and that was a COVID year.
You look at something like, forexample, before 2016,.

(08:20):
You tend to just have the onemovie that gets in, so Spotlight
gets in, and the year beforethat, birdman gets in, and that
was a little bit of a dry spellfor Venice.
I don't think they were makingas notable a selection as
attention calling a selection,so they didn't get movies in At

(08:41):
the same time.
Those were also shorter lists,right?
Those were, you know, lists ofeight films, I think each year,
2015, and in 2014, um, a yearlike 2013, you had filomena get
in from competition and thenagain you had warner brothers.
Excuse me, you had warnerbrothers outside of competition,
uh, able to push gravity intobest picture, right.

(09:02):
So I just like the idea thattheir track record, their track
record, demonstrates that thereshould be two films.
If you want to be very strictand just predict one success,
one crossover success, you coulddo that, but I think the trend
right now is for two, and so, aswe start breaking down the

(09:22):
nominees, I'll ask you at theend who you think is looking the
best to have one of those twospots.
And then, I think, other trendsthat we can sort of point out to
larger trends is you know,these films tend to be big
movies.
They get nominations across theboard, but they also usually
have corresponding directingnominations, writing nominations

(09:44):
and acting nominations.
So even something like I'mStill here, it's not foreign
film and picture, it's foreignfilm actress and picture.
The Bueless got three actingnominations, along with writing
and directing.
Maestro had acting nominationsalong with directing and writing
.
Poor Things as well, banshees,tar, roma, the Favorite, and

(10:07):
even the out competition titleslike hexal ridge, was still able
to get directing even if itdidn't get writing, and it had
an actor as well, and sowhatever movies come out of
venice, they should possibly belike these bigger package movies
yeah, they're going to be ableto get into best picture because
you have actors who enjoy theperformances, yeah, and writers
who enjoy the writing, anddirectors who enjoy the way that
the film is directed, and so Ithink all that's going to be a

(10:29):
factor and should hopefullymaybe give you a clue as to who
you think is really going to popin this section and has the
best path forward to securingthose nominations.
And and speaking of acting andwe'll get into this later but
the other thing you can look atis if you look outside of best
picture, you know venice hasbeen historically pretty good at
getting actors in, despite themnot landing in best picture

(10:53):
movies.
So, for example, in 2020, asidefrom those best picture movies,
you have someone like vanessakirby able to be nominated after
winning the best actress awardfor pieces of a woman, and you
have, for example, despite notwinning any award and really
sort of struggling at the end ofthe race, kristen Stewart got
nominated for Spencer, and Ithink it's enormously important

(11:14):
that it was a film thatpremiered at Venice and had a
positive reaction coming out ofVenice.
Ana de Armas for Blonde isanother one I would want to say
that you know, had Ana de Armasfor Blonde is another one I
would want to say that you know,had Ana de Armas not played
Venice and played South bySouthwest instead, or Sundance
right, that that might not havehappened.
Maybe even can it might nothave happened.

(11:34):
And you were saying that there'salso a trend in that a lot of
the performances that getspotlighted post-Can and end up
getting an Oscar nomination asof late at least, the trend has
been they tend to be actorsplaying real people.
Oh yeah, yeah.
If you kind of look at it, youknow, among the performances
that will come from Venice andbe nominated for an Oscar, you

(11:58):
will see a lot of sort of takeson real life figures.
So you have again the work inmaestro, for example, um.
You have the work in blonde.
You have the work in spencer,um.
It's not always the case, um,but even, for example, something
like pieces of a woman right,which is which is fiction, and
nomadland, which is fiction.
In venice you also had um, the,the supporting performance from

(12:20):
one night in miami, which wasbased on a real figure, right,
and so I do think that that'ssomething that occurs.
If you look at something like2019, maybe there's a little bit
of a dry spell, but we are on astreak since 2020, I believe,
to have some real life figures,have their performance shown in

(12:40):
Venice and then have thatperformance be selected for an
Academy Award, you know, severalmonths down the road.
And so I think that's anotherthing to look at Right, and I
think that if we take all theinformation and all the research
that you've done and we look atthe lineup, the official lineup
in competition for Venice, agroup of films is certainly the

(13:02):
group that to pay most attentionto is j kelly begonia um, no
other choice, even though thatwould be a foreign film.
That part-time wook hasn't beenhere in a while, um, and that's
something to keep an eye on.
Frankenstein, and then you havea house of dynamite, and then
you have a couple of you know,know real life figures, films

(13:24):
around, revolving around reallife figures, like the Smashing
Machine and the Testament ofAnne Lee, also being in
competition, and so these, this,this group of films, are the
ones that we're most keeping aneye on and who, technically,
with all the information you'vesaid, joseph, are the ones that

(13:44):
tend to break out.
Yeah, exactly, I think you'reright to point out those
projects, and as we start goingthrough the lineup and
pinpointing movies, we'll starthandicapping who has the best
opportunity here.
But, yeah, I think the filmsthat you just mentioned are the
ones I think, to you know, watchmost closely from competition.

(14:06):
Before getting into the detailsabout it, I would say that it's
worth mentioning the jury, andso the jury president this year
is Alexander Payne, right, and Ithink other notable jury
members who was last there for,I believe, downsizing I believe
he was there for downsizing,which was not necessarily a good
year for him, I believe,downsizing I believe he was
there for downsizing, which wasnot necessarily a good year for

(14:27):
him.
And the other sort of membersof the jury include Fernanda
Torres, who's sort of an alumnusfrom last year, right, last
year, yeah, from I'm Still hereand again, just to remind you
that I'm Still here was ironedfor best picture based on the
strength of the campaign and thequality of the movie, but it
wasn't necessarily a favoritecoming out of Venice, you know
it lost Best Actress, it wonScreenplay.
It was sort of a film that alot of people, I think, really

(14:52):
really liked passionately orreally loved passionately.
But there's something verynaturalistic about the piece
that didn't.
You know, it's just notnecessarily like a Poor Things,
for example, or a La La Landthat just immediately has all
this display of emotion andenthusiasm coming from the
people who watch it, and so I dothink it was extremely
celebrated.
But it was also sort of, youknow, possibly overshadowed by

(15:16):
glitzier.
You know, glitzier, it's yourright, had fernanda tours won
the best actress prize, as somepeople were predicting after
when people were thinking aboutwho was going to win the awards,
I think it might have, you know, certainly would have gotten
what it got in the end, butfaster, exactly, absolutely.
I completely agree with you.
But so if we look at the restof this jury, we have Mohamed

(15:38):
Rousseloff, who had success lastyear, I think, for the Seat of
the Sacred Fig yes, wonderfulmovie, but that was at Cannes.
Fernando Torres is there.
Zhao Tao, who is amazing welove Zhao Tao Exactly.
And then also Christian Mongeau, the Romanian filmmaker, who is
probably most well-known.
For four months, four months,three weeks, two days Exactly,
he's there, and so AlexanderPayne is the jury president, and

(16:02):
this may become a factor laterand maybe we'll mention it
towards the end, but sometimesVenice could acquire this
reputation of the jury president, maybe playing favorites.
I remember in 2018, for example, when Roma did really well at
the festival and I think it wonthe biggest prize.
That year, guillermo del Torowas the president.

(16:23):
I think it won the biggestprize that year, guillermo del
Toro was the president, rightand so For example, the year
that Brad Pitt and CateBlanchett won or, yes, brad Pitt
and Cate Blanchett won, I thinkin 2007, best Actor and Best
Actress, alejandroGonzález-Señorito, was part of
the jury.
He was part of the jury even ifhe wasn't the president, right.
You know, technically, zeng Ypart of the jury, even if he

(16:46):
wasn't the president.
You know, technically, zhangYimou was the president that
year and they gave the prize toAng Lee.
I don't know if maybe they'recolleagues, so I'm sure they've
spoken before but even someonelike last year when Isabel
Huppert, for example, had thechoice to give it to Fernanda
Torres, but Nicole Kidman isright there.
I don't know.
I think it can debate that.
Maybe the jury president'spreference could play a factor.

(17:07):
And in this case you haveAlexander Payne, who's worked
with George Clooney, who is incompetition, yeah, and is
certainly a colleague of NoahBaumbach's yeah.
He's also, I'm sure, reallygood friends with Jim Jarmusch.
He's also, I'm sure, reallygood friends with Jim Jarmusch,
you know.
So I'm sure he also has a widepalette of appreciation for film

(17:30):
.
But I do think that it's onlyhuman for these things to sort
of come up in discussion, atleast as an observer, you know,
you can't help but notice.
But anyway, so that's the jury,and let's start looking at the
competition lineup and let'ssingle out a few titles that we
think could break through andmaybe talk a little bit about
them.
So the first one I want topoint out is Begonia, right.

(17:51):
And so you have Yorgos.
He's already won the big one,right, and this is his third
time competing in competition.
Exactly, this will be his thirdtime.
He won the big one for poorthings which Damien Giselle gave
to them, who was again a comicof Emma Stone, whatever.
You just can't help but noticeit.
But even something like theFavorite which played here, won

(18:13):
two awards, and it won an awardfor Olivia Colman.
So at this point Yorgos hasgotten his performers recognized
.
I think he's been recognized asa director.
He has won the biggest award,and the question mark is can he
even win any more awards here?
Are you just going to say Iwant to give it to someone who
is not Yorgos?

(18:35):
I would definitely say I don'tknow if you agree that Venice
has been the kinder festival toYorgos, as opposed to Cannes.
Would you agree with that?
Well, cannes had Kinds ofKindness last year and Killing
of a Sacred Deer and the Lobster.
And the Lobster, yes, he hadmore crossover.
I would agree with that.

(18:55):
Exactly, more crossover.
Oscar success with Venicepremiering films.
Now, I'll also say that thoseVenice premiering films have
been give or take period pieces.
Yes, I think that matters, orwe can at least call them
costume pieces, right, and sohere we have a more contemporary
Yorgos, which can sometimes bea more confrontational Yorgos I

(19:19):
don't want to say edgier, butpossibly a little bit more
prickly.
If you saw Kinds of Kindness,this is maybe something you got
a taste for.
Um, right, and so I think thatcould be interesting.
Um, he tends to do better withperiod pieces than contemporary
pieces.
Um, the lobster got an eye forscreenplay.

(19:39):
Yes, for sure.
Exactly, I mean, at the Oscars.
Uh, lobster got an eye forscreenplay, but nowhere else.
Um, one of his first films, umdog tooth, was nominated for
foreign film, I believe.
Um, but really the bigbehemoths have been, uh, period
pieces, exactly because he hasthat below the line support and
begonia, isn't that?
Um, I will say it's kind ofinteresting also to note,

(20:01):
historically, like when yorgoshas had, you know, a good
premiere at venice.
He has had fox searchlight havehis back, yeah, and so that's
the favorite and, um, poorthings.
And this time he's working withfocus, right, which is kind of
interesting, right, becausethey've had such a tremendous

(20:24):
collaboration in the past thatit's kind of weird to see yorgos
here with focus instead ofsearchlight.
Yeah, it's a little bit strangeto me.
Um, I should also mention that,you know, in my research,
historically speaking, when Ipointed out those films that
make it into best picture, thestudio to sort of beat, you know
, since 2009, um, the expandedlist, the studio that has had

(20:46):
most success has beensearchlight, and so venice has
been incredibly, incredibly goodto searchlight.
Yeah, we're talking about blackswan, we're talking about
banshees of anisharan, right,nomadland.
Um, searchlight, I think, wouldbe the favorite here, but it's

(21:07):
odd because Searchlight doesn'teven have a film here this year,
which is odd.
I mean, I think the last time Isaw them not have a serious
film here was 2016, and theyended up buying Jackie.
Yeah, someone would wonder ifmaybe this year they're buyers.
Yeah, they may be buyers, but Ido think it's interesting to
note that searchlight does thebest here.

(21:27):
They're not going and they'renot even going with their boy,
yorgos, right?
Um, so I think that's aninteresting thing to think about
.
Um, the other studio that hassecond best maybe we'll talk
about in a little bit, becausetheir film will come up as
netflix.
Yeah, netflix, who out of thoseuh, I, 16 years since 2009, has
gotten four films in from thatcompetition section?
Searchlight has gotten eight.
Well, even this year, out of 21titles, they've got three.

(21:51):
Yeah, they have sort of stackedthe board in their favor.
So I think that's aninteresting aspect to the Yorgos
bid.
I mean, obviously, all eyes aregoing to be on the performances,
right, emma Stone, jessePlemons but I wonder if that's
kind of a con, because EmmaStone has been handsomely

(22:13):
rewarded, already has two leadactress Oscars.
I wonder if there's a sort of Idon't want to say Emma Stone
fatigue, but certainly a.
You know we can pause, we don'thave to, you know, nominate
Emma so quickly after her secondOscar, yeah, um.
So I think, and also you knowthat the while the collaboration
is a great one, the Yorgos EmmaStone collaboration, it's still

(22:36):
something that they've beenvery exposed to already, um, and
so I wonder if that's going tobreak new ground.
I'm not sure.
And the thing about JessePlemons is, I think he'd be an
amazing contender.
However, as we were saying, Iworry that it's a contemporary
piece and in Jesse Plemons' case, he's already been recognized
with a nomination not super longago for the Power of the Dog,

(22:59):
right, I do think it'sinteresting of the possibility
is interesting that JessePlemons could be the rare actor
to win both a Cannes Best ActorPrize and a Venice Best Actor
Prize.
Yeah, and pretty close togetheralso, right, and I think also
Back to back, exactly, yeah,consecutively, I think, yeah, he

(23:20):
would be in rare company there,if, if any.
I do think that for a while wehad that Jesse Plemons streak,
until A24 decided to notcampaign Civil War.
But Jesse Plemons has beengreat at getting his movies into
Best Picture.
If he gets nominated himselffor Best Actor.
At least.
That's a category shift.
Yes, and we've spoken before ofthe power of the category shift
.
Exactly that's important forvoters to feel like it's

(23:43):
different, because I've nevernominated Jesse for lead and he
has the skill to carry a movie,um.
And I also think anotherinteresting thing to think about
is that Jesse, technically he'sa little bit ahead for the
Academy and behind with theprecursors, and what I mean by
that is that when he gets in forpower of the Dog he didn't have

(24:04):
a Golden Globe nomination or aSAG nomination.
So maybe a place like the SAGis really sort of chomping at
the bit to have an opportunityto finally nominate him
individually in some kind ofcategory, and that's going to
help him, I think.
Also the young man who has asupporting role there, he might
be a little bit of a scenestealer.
So that's something to look at,and I think also it's going to

(24:29):
be exciting when we start seeingsome reactions.
I've always debated whether ornot emma stone is leading this
right, right, and so it's goingto be interesting to find out,
because I would argue, actressis empty, and so I would rather.
I'd rather someone be anactress than it's supporting
actresses.
It's more fool.
And then the other thing Iwould say is again with what you
had mentioned about Emma Stoneand her work with Yorgos is can

(24:51):
Emma Stone even get thatnomination for Yorgos?
I mean, there is JenniferLawrence and her collaboration
with David or Russell Rightright, right, exactly.
So she was able to get SilverLinings and lead American Hustle
and Supporting and Joy leadRight right, right.
Emma Stone is already atwo-time winner, but you have
Emma Stone sort of shaving herhead and possibly playing more

(25:28):
of an antagonistic character,and those may all be things that
voters really savor.
We're going to talk about moreof this throughout the season,
but Best Actress needs a veteran.
We need a veteran in that topfive and right now you would
think there are many options,but there aren't.

(25:48):
And some of the options that wedo have, I think, have really
problematic cases like JuliaRoberts and After the Hunt and
Cinque Revo and Wicked for Good.
So you know we need a veteran.
Is Emma Stone going to go leadfor Begonia?
I'm not sure.
Is Emma Stone going to go leadfor Begonia?
I'm not sure.
But if this pops at Venice,then certainly you know, I'm not

(26:12):
sure that they would have ahard time placing her again for
another nomination for this.
Yeah, I agree.
And also, actually I wanted tomention before we move on from
Begonia, is that it is a remake.
That's right.
Yes, that's a very importantaspect, and the team that made
the original are associated tothis project, which I think

(26:32):
matters and I think is important.
Yeah, so, addressing that,which I absolutely agree with
you, this film is based on aprevious film called Save the
Green Planet, which was a filmfrom South Korea, I believe, and
this film in and of itself issort of a partnership with CJ
E&M, which is a company, a filmcompany out of South Korea, and

(26:56):
you may recognize their logofrom movies, like you know, a
lot of the Bong Joon-ho movies,for example.
They've worked together and soI think there was an
announcement, I think earlierthis year or late last year,
this idea that the company wantsto explore remaking or sort of,
you know, having these projectsthat are in their library,

(27:19):
bringing them to the US,bringing them to US audiences,
and they don't specify thatthey're all going to be remakes.
They may just release some ofthat catalog here for the first
time, or maybe for the firsttime so extensively, but this
project is, I think, born out ofthat sort of same initiative
from that company to, you know,harbor more of a creative

(27:41):
footprint here in the US, and soI think that's going to be an
interesting thing to look at.
Yeah, I think that's a positivething.
I think it's a positive thing.
I think it's going to beinteresting.
But I think I mean coming rightout of the gate, if you have a
film that captures audiences andall of a sudden is some kind of
front runner, that's a huge winfor your company.

(28:02):
Yeah, and I think the industryis looking at that.
I think the industry is lookingto see okay, well, how is this
first endeavor of this SouthKorean, really well-known
company working withinternational artists to remake
something from their library?
What kind of success is thatgoing to have?
And I think what's also goingto be interesting is that if you

(28:23):
look at any sort of footagefrom Save the Green Planet and
you look at any footage fromBegonia, like the trailer,
tonally, they look so different.
They do.
They look so different.
Yeah, they do, um, but I thinkthat's something that voters are
going to appreciate.
Yeah, um, but so I I'm glad youbrought that up.
I think that's going to befascinating.
I can't wait to see how thatturns out.

(28:56):
Um, probably another big movieto talk about in this lineup is
jay kelly.
It's a stacked cast.
Um, uh, this is, I believe,noah bomback's uh, second third.
It's his third, his third filmin competition, right?
Um, after white noise andmarriage story.
One was a huge success and onewas a huge debacle.
Right, and all All three arefrom Netflix.
Yeah, and I think Netflix isunder the impression that Jay
Kelly is their big candidate.
It has, again, a stacked cast.

(29:16):
It certainly seems to be aboutsomething that they would have
an interest in Certain themesabout Hollywood showbiz, and
Noel Baumbach has yet to benominated for best director.
Um, so one wonders if this isreally the breakout film for
Noel Baumbach to finally go allthe way and have it be a huge

(29:37):
contender.
At the same time, I personallyhave doubts if it's going to
rank among his best films andand be that kind of vehicle that
be that is able to go all theway.
It's interesting.
I wasn't even a huge fan ofmarriage story.
To be perfectly honest, I lovemarriage story.
I kind of had the feeling where, like, if everyone loves the
bomb back film, I.
I actually did not like it thatmuch.

(29:59):
I prefer the bomb back filmsthat did not get a best picture,
um, but Bombeck films that didnot get an, I am, a best picture
, but I do think you bring up ahuge point.
So, first of all, netflix has alot of movies here.
Jay Kelly, I think, comes to theforefront.
Bombeck it's his third time,like Yorgos, but he hasn't won.
He hasn't won, unlike Yorgos.
Unlike Yorgos, you know, youhave George Clooney, who is just

(30:24):
, I think, synonymous with Italynow, and so I can't imagine
that.
You know, the press andaudiences there aren't going to
really enjoy having him be atthe festival.
It looks like it really catersto sort of what he can bring to
any project, project.

(30:45):
Um, the cast is absolutelystacked, which can be a
double-edged sword.
Um, people are already talkingabout, you know, the return of
laura dern and adam sandler,again, right, um, but this cast
includes, you know, billy kudrowand, um, so many people that it
might be difficult, andinternational people.
That wonderful actor, I thinkhis name is lars, yeah, um, he's
in this film as well, and so,and so it has a lot of these, a
lot of things going for it.

(31:05):
You know the Americans aregoing to like it because you got
George Clooney and no Bob backthere.
That brings in the independentpeople.
But international audience isgoing to like it because it's
they.
It's set in Italy, as far as Iknow, and you have international
members to the cast right, andcritics might like it because it
has this sort of metafictionaspect going to it and you could
argue that if we're going toplay friends, you know this

(31:28):
would be the movie thatAlexander Payne is going to
adore because it has hisprevious collaborator in it,
george Clooney from theDescendants.
But it's also a road trip movie, right, and it has.
I'm sure Alexander Payne, youknow, has a fine appreciation
for you know what adam sandlercan bring to any movie, um, but

(31:49):
he has his former collaborator,laura dern, in the movie right,
and noah bombeck, alexanderpayne, both screenwriters, both,
you know, known for theirwriting right, right, um, and so
on paper.
If the festival was canceledand none of the films could show
, if alexander payne probablyhad to pick one movie to give an
award to that you didn't see atall, yeah, you could argue,

(32:09):
would be jay kelly, jay kelly,um, but I do think that there
are some issues with it in thesense that, like you know,
sometimes if you're the favorite, it's not a good, a good spot
to be in.
Remember, I always go back tonoah bomback did not stick the
landing with white noise, whichwas tough because that novel is
just so seminal, right, um.
And that same year, bardo, youknow, just did not take off and

(32:34):
did not have many fans for thefilm, which I love, by the way.
I actually, I really love Bardo, um, and I wish I could see
those 20 minutes that were cutout of the film.
I like Bardo too, yeah, right,but so, like, there's that other
project that's maybe a littlebit self-reflexive but just
turns off a lot of people, andso it'll be interesting.
And another interesting thingwill be if it does find success

(32:57):
there, does that success carryover?
Because, like I said, georgeClooney in Italy on a road trip
to Alexander Payne might nothave the same resonance in New
York, might not have the sameresonance.
Is it playing Telluride?
Yes, in Telluride.
It's not going to Toronto.

(33:18):
No, it's not.
I think that's interesting.
I think that's interestingbecause, but it's the one that's
, it's.
It's just short of that to beperfect.
Yeah, otherwise it's going tothe other three yeah, yff tell
you right and uh, right, buttoronto could possibly be the
more mainstream populistfestival and it's opting not to

(33:38):
go there and so, just you know,is it the film that people want
right now?
Um, yeah, on that note, I willsay that of, we'll talk about
the next.
The other two netflix moviesnext, I will say that the one on
paper that sounds like the bigpush from netflix is jay kelly,
but the one that to me soundswith most potential is actually

(34:01):
catherine bigelow's movie, um, ahouse Dynamite, which is also
going to play the New York FilmFestival.
This is Catherine Bigelow'sreturn to the Venice competition
, since I think it was, yeah,2008 for the Hurt Locker, which
kind of registered with theAcademy in 2009.

(34:22):
And I don't know, seeing thepremise of that movie, it just
sounds very timely of the momentand I see very little
possibility for it to not be abig success for her.
I mean, I agree on paper.
The one that may be aboutsomething a little bit more

(34:45):
urgent is House of Dynamite.
I think this is CatherineBigelow's one of her first, or
maybe her first collaborationwith Netflix, which is maybe
where some of my distrust comeswhich, again, on paper, is an
excellent project, but it justdid not have, um, enough of a,

(35:06):
enough of a unique sort ofstorytelling perspective to make
the project stand out enough,and so part of me does wonder if
working with netflix is goingto dim down some of the
creativity of the project.
There's also some aspects thatI think could be um problematic.
Again, it's a big ensemble, it'sa great cast, it's an amazing

(35:27):
cast, right, that's going for it, yeah, and you have Tracy Letts
, you have Rebecca Ferguson, youhave Idris Elba, greta Lee,
willa Fitzgerald, and so youhave A group of people who've
yet to be recognized by theirpeers Collectively, yeah,
collectively, like a who's whoof actors who have not scored a
nomination.
But also, it's kind ofinteresting because when you
look at Zero Dark Thirty right,it's another very good cast, but

(35:50):
you do have that central figurewho's able to sort of carry the
piece with Jessica Chastain,right, and so I do wonder if
we're going to have that thistime.
So I'm debating whether thefilm is going to sort of format
itself more like vignettes andwe're sort of going to travel
from one perspective to theother, right, um, as opposed to

(36:10):
intertwined, exactly as opposedto intertwined or, for example,
idris elba being the leadingcharacter and, you know, dealing
with, um, this particular, uhpart of the storytelling world,
and then this particular part ofthe storytelling world and, and
sort of you know, having idrisElba be the surrogate point of
view for the audience member.
I do wonder if the film isgoing to depart from that sort

(36:33):
of Zero Dark Thirty format andwe're instead going to have a.
This is how it would happen inreal life if missiles were
coming towards us from theperspective of someone you know
who has to give the pressconference, and then the
perspective of someone who isactually with the president, and
then the perspective of, youknow, and we're going to see a
bunch of, like I said, the jets,like almost episodic, right.

(36:53):
And then another question I haveis the idea that the
screenwriter on this is thescreenwriter from Jackie, who
won screenplay For Jackie.
Screenplay For Jackie, yes, andI think that that's part of the
appeal why they said this is agreat project to have at Venice,
because not only do we have thedirector of the Herlocker but
we have the writer from Jackieon it.
But I do wonder, thinking backon Jackie, if the script is

(37:15):
necessarily the tightest partabout it, and I think that,
jackie, the script is good, butI think that so much of what
Pablo brings to it creatively isa standout, and again you have
the Natalie Portman performance,sort of holding all these
things together, and so there'swhere some of my skepticism
comes from.
But on a subject, on a level ofsubject matter, it seems like a

(37:40):
project that would really standout and I also think that, like
as you said, it got invited toNew York, and I know that New
York isn't necessarily New Yorkis always going to invite Jim
Jarmusch.
They're not necessarily alwaysgoing to invite Catherine
Bigelow, right, and so when theyinvite this film, it's probably
because they have a lot ofadmiration for some aspect yes,

(38:02):
about how it was made.
Yeah, yeah, admiration for someaspect about how it was made?
Yeah, I agree.
And you know, catherine Bigelowhas been missing in action for
a while.
You know, let's not pretend asif, since the Hurt Locker, she's
only had a string of misses.
She had one film that came outin 2017, detroit, which was
critically acclaimed.
It just did poorly at the boxoffice.

(38:23):
I think it came out around thistime, august yeah, around this
time and just never really, youknow, transcended that Right,
but it was by no means a poorlyreceived movie.
Yeah, so I think we're prettyconfident it's going to be well
received and that, given thesort of political landscape, or
really just the landscape of youknow, the country at this

(38:45):
moment, I feel it stands to be afilm that really, as I said,
stands out.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I wouldhope so.
I think one one of the strongaspects of the Hurt Locker was
the script.
I just don't want this film tosort of feel or be dismissed by
some people, as it's aninteresting piece of, you know,
conjecture or fantasy on whatthe situation would be like.

(39:07):
But it is fantasy.
It's not like Zero Dark Thirty,when you're trying to chronicle
some element of reality that isdeeply there.
And certainly the same thingfor the Heart Locker and
certainly for Detroit.
So I do.
How do I say this?
I think she's an extraordinaryfilmmaker, but I worry about
Netflix bringing the what's thatfilm from Adam McKay Don't Look

(39:31):
Up.
I'm worried about the don'tlook up of it, all of the
hypotheticalness.
That's interesting.
That's where my fear comes from.
That's interesting.
And then the other Netflix filmin competition is Guillermo del
Toro's Frankenstein.
A huge passion project for him,finally making Guillermo del
Toro's Frankenstein A hugepassion project for him, finally
making it to the screen, itlooks like an enormous endeavor.
He kind of revisits that in allhis films, like the

(39:52):
Frankenstein aspect of creation,and so I think we're all
excited to see that there's anaspect of Frankenstein that to
me at this moment feels a littlebit too similar to Nightmare
Alley, as in a film that istechnically incredible,
technically extremely well doneand a film that will be embraced

(40:15):
by the Academy on a technicallevel.
But you know that that's sortof the end game of that project.
You know, I just not seeing alot of acting contenders coming
out of it.
I'm not seeing the you know,pressure to nominate Guillermo
del Toro again for Best Director, and so in a way, it would be a

(40:37):
nomination if it were a movieto make it into Best Picture.
It would be a nomination forBest Picture and text Like
Nightmare Alley Exactly, andthat to me looks too similar to
night morality, which happenednot that long ago.
Um, so that gives me a lot ofpause.
I think that's a.
I think that's a great point.
I think when we think about thefrankenstein property, we don't
immediately think theperformances.
Um, that said, you do have theway overdue oscar isaac in it.

(41:01):
Oh, way overdue, whose accenton the trailer I think I did not
enjoy.
So I do wonder about that,Right, and I think it's also
important to note that Guillermohas already won the big one, so
I'm not sure if he can win thebig one again, unlike some of
these other people that we'retalking about, like Yorgos
Lanthimos, who's yet to win thebig Exactly, but I think it's
like, yeah, I think it'sinteresting that, like Bigelow,

(41:24):
guillermo hasn't been here for awhile Bigelow, more than a
while, really.
But the idea that you have NoahBaumbach on his third, it's
important to note that, likethat first big breakthrough for
Guillermo had that actingelement.

(41:49):
Yeah, and I think that's prettyimportant.
It wasn't just one performance,it was a bunch of performances
that were in for that.
Yeah, so that's sort of theAchilles heel for this movie.
Yeah, again, I think thetrailer is absolutely beautiful,
yeah, gorgeous, and I'm surepeople are going to go crazy for

(42:10):
Jacob Elordi there, and I wouldactually argue that he's the
one to watch because, based onPriscilla, I think he has a lot
of potential and I think theindustry is eager to sort of
have him nominated for something, some kind of Golden Globe or
something I did not likenecessarily.
I mean, I liked it.
I just don't think it's goingto play to the Academy to have
that sort of voice effect on himas that I heard in the trailer.
Right, um, for for for Jacob,for Jacob, for Jacob.
Um, he is very good and Ithought he was very good, but

(42:32):
also he's been making these sortof independent movies and he
was on that, that mini seriesfrom Chris.
For me it would just seem like,if he's given enough meat,
oscar isaac is certainly anactor that I think many actors
want to nominate already.
Uh, for his first oscarnomination, that's very, very,
very overdue.
Yeah, yeah, but is this it?
I'm just not sure.
Yeah, that's exactly how.

(42:53):
That's exactly how I feel rightnow.
Um, I think the next title togo to is the 824 title.
Uh, speaking of priscilla, um,the 824 title being the smashing
machine, right, right, and sothere's been a lot of
anticipation for this movie,because you know it's so
Oscar-baity for Dwayne Johnson.
Right, the trailer came out awhile ago.

(43:15):
Right, we're getting also dualfilms from the Safdie brothers
who are splitting up for thefirst time.
Yeah, and there was.
I thought at one point thatthis film was going to Cannes.
That's how early the footagecame out and the first
photographs came out, right.
But it did not go to Cannes, itwaited till Venice.
And I've always debated whetheryou can do a festival with the
two Safdie brothers at the sametime, and I was right.

(43:39):
You cannot, right.
So there's only one Safdie inthis festival and the other
Safdie is going to wait tillDecember.
But some interesting thingsabout this project right, it's
based on a real-life figure andwe've already talked about how
that's an advantage when itcomes to acting nominations from
the Venice competition lineup.
It's an advantage full stop foracting nominations.
You know, that's sort of catnipfor actors who vote for other

(44:00):
actors, but also, as you said,for this statistic of in
competition.
Yeah, that, exactly that tendsto matter.
You got your veteran therebecause emily blunt was
nominated.
Finally, for oppenheimer, I'mplaying another real life person
.
Uh, she's got a category shift.
She might have a category.
She might have a category shift.
That's going to be interestingto see.
Right, like emma stone forbegonia, is she really lead um,

(44:23):
or is she supporting?
Or is she supporting or arethey going to insist that,
whatever screen time she has,we're going to push her and lead
.
Yeah, and of course, we havethe sort of storied venice
controversial in my opinion thisopinion of uh, I'm sorry, this
sort of take on that happens invenice, which is the
transformative performance thatmakes me look at someone in a

(44:43):
different way.
And so this was, this happenedwhen Mickey Rourke was in the
Wrestler and that won the bigaward.
And you had Brendan Fraser inthe Whale, didn't win anything,
didn't win anything, but youknow it.
Just the narrative takes offthat this actor has just
transformed himself to such adegree that I have to nominate

(45:05):
him or he has to win.
Right, and I will say I thinkit's interesting.
One thing I want to bring up is,in a way, you know, is Emily
Blunt going to be supporting orlead?
It would make sense for EmilyBlunt, I believe, to push for a
lead campaign because she'salready done a supporting
campaign.
So if I were her, I can easilyimagine saying well, you know

(45:27):
what we've already done, youknow the supporting part, let's
try to push for lead.
And Emma Stone the opposite,sort of like I just won for lead
, you know, I'm okay going downto supporting.
So that's interesting that I'mthinking about.
But I'll also say as to what youwere saying right now about the
Rock.
You know everything you'resaying, I believe, also is true,
but I think something that goesagainst Dwayne Johnson and

(45:50):
we'll be talking about this asthe year goes on is that he's
playing a real life figure.
That's a, that's a plus, that'sa pro, but it's still within
his comfort zone because it'sstill in the fighting world.
You know, it's still a wrestler, um, ufc fighter, rather, I
should say Um, but it's stillnot so far removed from his

(46:11):
familiar sort of thing.
So, and I think that actors,his persona right, exactly so
thing, yeah, so and I think thatactors, his persona Right,
exactly, so I don't, I thinkthat actors are going to take
that into account, possibly,even if the performance is very
strong.
That's something that I thinkhe's going to have to contend
with throughout the award season.
You know, how much of a stretchis it really for Dwayne Johnson
Right, and how eager is theAcademy to just have him be?

(46:33):
Because, let's face it, thatwould help ratings.
That would be an excellent coupfor your ratings.
Another thing I want to mentionhere is you know, and also about
Dwayne Johnson, also not unlikeBrendan Fraser, who ends up
getting his first nomination andwin with not necessarily the
best filmography.
You have that going with.

(46:54):
That's something that DwayneJohnson has to contend with as
well.
You know very spottyfilmography.
Is the Academy ready to justembrace him right off the bat
into a lead performance?
Technically, the performancesthat do end up doing that kind
of thing are transformative ones.
So that's going for him.

(47:14):
But again, this wrestling, thisfighting aspect to the
performance is something that Iam weary about.
I also think it's interestingthat, again, at one point I
thought this was going to canand at one point I would have
thought, well, maybe that's kindof, you know, a no-brainer,
because dwayne johnson haswalked that carpet for southland
tales which bombed there.
But, um, I think it'sinteresting that a24 opted for

(47:38):
venice.
I think if you're in the, ifyou're aware of how the industry
works, you have to know that atthis point a24 and neon are
just at each other's neck over.
Who has, you know, should I say, a stronger dominance on their
little, on their smaller nichemarket?
Right, and um, why I bring thisup is because I did want to

(48:01):
bring up the idea of.
I don't think A24 had the canthat they wanted when Eddington
bows in competition.
I think they had great titleselsewhere.
Like you were a big fan ofPillion, for example.
Oh yes, that's so good, butlet's face it, that wasn't their
main objective.
Their main objective was to bethere for Ari Aster and to
convert that into millions ofdollars at the box office and

(48:25):
probably an awards campaign andsome kind of awards campaign for
somebody, right, and justnothing happened.
None of that happened, no, no.
And so you got to think thatthey want to have a better
Venice, but want to have abetter Venice.
But looking at their history,their Venice isn't always that
great.
I'm looking at their slate fromother years and you have the

(48:46):
Whale, which was able to win,which is fantastic, right.
But then you have Priscilla,which is a wonderful film and
did really well at Venice, butit couldn't really make a dent.
You had Baby Girl, anothergreat film that won an award at
Venice.
I think that's their first'msorry, no, that's two years in a
row.
Best actress oh, yeah, that'strue.
Yeah, kaylee and nicole, yeah,still cannot get one of your
actresses in for an oscar.

(49:07):
And uh.
Then you had that same year.
You had queer and you werefinally going to get this actor,
who's so overdue and and weassume is possibly you know, the
academy knows that and he'staking on this role that's so
different and challenging andprovoking, um, in a, in a, in a
very, uh, confrontational filmfrom william s burroughs, based

(49:28):
on william s burroughs work, um,and they can't make that work
either to such a degree wherethey end up buying a movie that
year.
Uh, the brutalist right, and wehad thought, like, when we heard
that the brutalist was in factnot going to have Focus Features
roll out the movie in the USlike it had in other
international places, we kind ofthought, well, it kind of makes

(49:49):
sense for A24 to buy becauseSing Sing did not take off over
the summer, and so you want tosort of shore up your chances.
Maybe this is the best spot tobuy something.
Want to sort of shore up yourchances.
Maybe this is the best spot tobuy something, um, but I just
bring that up with the idea thatsmashing machine, if it goes
the way of these other films, itmay not be the slam dunk that
they wanted, and so then that'ssort of a lackluster performance

(50:10):
at can and venice.
Yeah, and you know it's notgood.
Something that I think isinteresting about, um, the
smashing machine is that it'snot going to Telluride, which I
find quite interesting.
I know they took the Safdiebrothers, they took Uncut Gems
to Telluride and, I think, hadkind of a polarizing reaction.
It got unanimous praise fromcritics, but I think people

(50:32):
weren't so crazy.
So maybe A24 wants to sort ofopt out of Telluride for the
Safdies from here on out, wantsto sort of opt out of Telluride
for the Safdies from here on out.
But still, if it were, I'm justtempted to think that if
Telluride thought it was one ofthe best best films of the year,
it would be in that lineup.
It's also not going to NYFF noteither.
It's not going to NYFF, noteven in a side section, like out
of you know, on the sidesection.

(50:52):
So those things give me pause.
Also, we had talked about thisbefore, but the safdies have
gone to venice before.
Right, they were there withheaven knows what.
Yes, and the horizon section in2015.
Yes, that film was selected forthe main slate of new york,
yeah, and so there is a littlebit of suspicion here, whereas
since we're not seeing it allover the place, that maybe the

(51:13):
quality isn't there.
Um, I also think this is one ofthose titles where, as soon as
the Smashing Machine has goodenough critics and enough juice
to campaign on thetransformation of Dwayne Johnson
, if this movie makes $50million, that's really all I
need to do.
That's the other thing I wasgoing to say.
I think that's something that'salso going for the movie in
that, as we saw with the IronClaw, which did pretty well from

(51:35):
A24 as well, you know, I thinkthere's an audience for this
type of movie.
The Rock certainly carries anaudience with him and his box
office successes, you know, canprove that.
So I think this film stands tomake A24 some money and that's
going to help.
That could be tempting forvoters, right?
That may be the differencebetween them being able to land

(51:58):
nominations or not.
We've also talked about thatweird thing where, like Dwayne
Johnson has an uber competitivebest actor race and Emily Blunt
can almost walk to a nomination.
Especially if Emily Blunt hadbeen snubbed for Oppenheimer,
she would certainly be nominatedfor this film, but that's not
the case.
So I'm curious to see how thisis going to pan out.

(52:20):
Right now, my gut says it'sgoing to be more middle of the
road.
Yeah, I have a feeling likethat too, you know, good, not
great, right, but again, there'sso many other factors that it
has going for it that that mightbe good enough, right?
I think now is a good time forme to jump to a movie from Jim
Jarmusch and we can talk aboutit briefly, because Jim Jarmusch

(52:43):
just is not the ostrich cup oftea, because he's too Jim
Jarmusch, thank God for that.
So he's got father, father,mother, sister, brother, some
speculation about this movie,because I think people were
anticipating it for Cannes.
It didn't make Cannes and thisis a pattern that we'll continue
to see.
Right, there were rumors thatCannes rejected it.
They didn't like it.

(53:04):
Yeah, I think, at one point Ithink I read the story that
Vicky Krebs was asked about it.
Yeah, and you know, I think shesaid something like you know.
So, which is true, which istrue, it is true.
But he's always not made moviesfor ken and ken has always been
happy to show them.
Right, right, um, so I do thinkthat you know something smells

(53:26):
off there, um, but it's jim's, Ibelieve.
First time in venice sincecoffee and cigarettes with k
planchette.
Wow, it's gonna be gonna begreat to see k planchette in
that.
Um, I bring this.
I bring this up because we talkabout competitors and a24 and
neon, but we should talk aboutmovie because, um, this is one
of the few movies.
This is one of the few moviesthat movie will have at venice

(53:49):
and specifically in competition,and so movie is going to be
releasing this film later on.
Um, k blanchett's in it, um, Ithink it's going to be great to
have Tom Waits and CharlotteRampling in the same movie.
I have my drivers in it, vickyCreeps, and so the cast is great
, and I wouldn't be surprisedthat critics really like this
movie.
I just really wonder if it couldever have any sort of traction

(54:10):
at the Academy.
But what is MUBI going tocampaign?
Exactly Because all they've gotis again a lackluster can when
they have Lynn Ramsey'swonderful film, but again it's
so difficult for Lynn Ramsey toget any nomination for the
Oscars.
Like I said in our last episode, that's going to be a very
polarizing movie for sure.
Exactly so are we going to seemovies sort of, you know, miss

(54:31):
out this year because they spentso much of their resources
trying to just break throughlast year yeah, so much of their
resources trying to just breakthrough last year.
Yeah, that will probably havethem sort of say, okay, I'm
gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna setout this round and, you know,
build up for next year.
Um, I think that could be afactor, um, but anyway, I mean,
I do think that critics aregoing to, like I said, they're

(54:52):
gonna eat at the possibility ofseeing tom waits and charlotte
rampling play what I thinkparents or like it's a trip tech
movie.
So I think that, oh, really,yeah, so I think one chapter is
father, second chapter is mother, third chapter is sister,
brother.
But are they related?
Like were they lovers?
No, no, no, also completelydifferent.

(55:13):
Yeah, I think they're alldifferent, and I think that
Vicky Krips, cate Blanchett andCharlotte Rampling are in the
same one.
Oh, okay, oh, that's reallyinteresting, okay, well, I love
every Jim Jarmusch film, so Ireally hope this does well and I
hope I can see it soon.
Yeah, along those lines, we'lltalk about another movie that I
think stands to be like the JimJarmusch film Not necessarily

(55:35):
the Academy's cup of tea justbased on the filmmaker, and
that's olivia si is muchanticipated wizard of the
kremlin.
We love.
Olivia si is here.
The guy can do no wrong.
He's an amazing filmmaker.
We got to meet him once.
Well, he did some wrong invenice a few years ago, right,
well, I mean just personally, Iknow, you know, I agree with you
.
We got to meet him at the newyork film festival a while back,
for when he was there forPersonal Shopper, and he's just

(55:59):
such an incredible filmmaker.
But so, outside of their youknow, cup of tea, I expect this
to be a very Olivia Sia's movie.
It sounds fascinating.
The subject is absolutelyfascinating.
Sounds like an incredible rolefor Paul Dano A very, very, you
know, attention-grabbing rolefor Jude Dano.
Um, a very, very, uh, you know,a tension grabbing role for

(56:21):
Jude Law playing Vladimir Putin.
Um and uh, again, you have thatreal life factor.
And you know there's atimeliness to all of this,
unfortunately and sadly, whichmight not turn off all all Oscar
voters, right, because sort ofrevisiting the territory of the
Apprentice last year, or theopposite.
Things are so bleak here in thepolitical landscape and Trump

(56:44):
and Putin and all that crap,that might just not be the right
moment, I don't know, but Ican't deny that it sounds like a
fascinating story.
I'm very curious to see what thereception will be.
I will say that, based on whatwe were talking about prior to
this episode is that you know,olivia Size doesn't do great
with Venice.
He does better with Cannes.

(57:05):
Yeah, and I think he sort ofhas unfortunately lost a little
bit of favor with Cannesrecently.
But I think you know Venice iswhere he unspooled Wasp Network
and that was just not a goodmoment for him.
Yeah, and again, based on reallife figures too.
Yeah, so there's a lot ofreason to be suspicious about

(57:27):
how this is going to turn out.
It is going to, interestinglyenough, it is going to TIFF, but
it's not going to NYFF, Ibelieve.
And New York and New York lovesOlivia Sines.
They really do.
So there is something therethat you know reads a little bit
off to me, but nonetheless, wehad talked about that pattern of
real people.

(57:48):
Jude Law and Paul Dano both fitthat bill.
Jude Law has been doing amazingwork.
He's one of our finest actors.
He was there last year for theOrder.
He was great in that.
He was great in the Order, andso I think that you know, if the
film stands out, I think itwould be great to see both of
those actors get Oscar attention.
I just think that an OliviaSize vehicle isn't the right one

(58:10):
to get them there Right, and Ithink the speaking of the Wizard
of the Kremlin, I think thebest movie to jump to now is the
testament of ann lee.
Yes, and you see that that is afilm that I'm especially
watching, I'm very worried about, in a good way, I think that

(58:30):
you know mona fastwald, thedirector, you know, had a moment
with the brutalist.
She was a producer on thebrutalist, she was a co-writer
on the Brutalist, firstnomination Nominated last year.
So a part of me wonders, youknow the way, as we've talked
about in previous episodes, youknow, there's patterns that just
stick and so once they've had,you know, once they've sort of

(58:52):
indulged in a filmmaker, theytend to give it a little bit of
a break before they jump onboard to indulge them again.
Possibly, you know, with awardsattention, there are some
filmmakers who are the exceptionand so part of me thinks, you
know, they just did MonaFastball last year with the
Brutalists, even though it wasBrady Corbett's directorial

(59:13):
achievement.
Are they going to do monafastball again so soon?
This seems unlikely to me.
However, this is a veryinteresting film, um unique, a
very unique film, tackling, youknow, the religious founder, the
shakers movement, right, uh,amanda safe read, who is a past
nominee in 2020 for manc um, has, I think, a great role here.

(59:35):
It seems it a musical.
It's sort of kind of like amusical, you know, and there's a
weird wavelength here becauseyou know it's a musical.
But also, I think themusicality of the piece is going
to tie in with the way theShakers, you know, worshipped,
you know, with that kind ofdancing and expressive gestures

(59:57):
and movements.
I think that's going to be tiedinto the whole musical aspect
of it all.
Um, and you know, I don't know,I I think this film stands to do
well, um, and it doesn't have abuyer right now.
It would certainly need to geta distributor and, you know, any
film that's going to be that'sgoing to get get distribution so

(01:00:19):
late into the year really needsto ramp things up in order to
have everything prepared for anOscar campaign.
It's not easy to buy theBrutalist and then roll out a
huge Oscar campaign.
That's why a lot of studios gointo these fall festivals
already having their pony themovie that they're pushing, the
movie that they're pushing.
But if someone were to buy itand release it for an Oscar play

(01:00:40):
and it does well with critics.
Amanda Seyfried would be anexcellent candidate to be in the
Best Actress race.
It is very empty.
We need a veteran in thatlineup and right now, the best
we've got right now is apossible fourth nomination for
Cynthia Erivo, for Wicked, whowas just there last year.

(01:01:02):
Emma Stone just won.
Emma Stone just won Emily Bluntis she supporting, is she lead?
It's not her movie.
She was also just nominated too.
She was just nominated, butit's also more of the Rock's
movie possibly.
J-law is like a very off moviefor them.
Yeah, the film is going to beextremely polarizing.
So we need a veteran here andAmanda Seyfried fits the bill.

(01:01:23):
Fits the bill.
And on top of that, you knowand we've talked about this in
previous episodes we need and weshould have on this lineup a
real life figure.
Right and right now we don'thave anybody.
So have anybody.
So Amanda Seyfried, in a way,kind of ticks both of those
boxes.
She ticks the box of the vetand she ticks the box of a real
life figure.
I think what's fascinating to meabout the Ann Lee film is that

(01:01:49):
it's so interesting that they'resort of playing the Brutalist
playbook step by step Venice nodistributor.
We're going to make a dealafter the festival.
We shot in 70 millimeter.
Brady is essentially supportingMona this time, after the roles
were opposite for the Brutalist.
In a kind of weird way, they'rejust coming off this year,

(01:02:13):
where there was this hugemusical that took Cannes by
storm, which was Amelia Perez.
The Oscar winning musician isback on this, daniel Daniel
Blumberg, I believe, is his name, and so I just find it
fascinating that they're playingwhat seems to me like the exact
same strategy that reallyworked out for the brutalist.

(01:02:34):
So imagine if it does take off,I think.
I think that that's such awonderful headline.
Um, I'm really watching thatmovie, uh, with eager
anticipation to see what happens.
Um, and, like I said, it isfollowing this, as you were
saying.
It is following the sameplaybook as the buddhalist.
Um, in a way, I remember bradytalking about how they went into

(01:02:59):
venice, knowing that, trustingthe work they'd done, trusting
the achievement they'd made, andknowing that aren't just having
faith that that once theyplayed it on 70 millimeter in a
huge venue like venice, it wouldreally speak to people what
they were trying to accomplishwith that film, and it did um,
and so in a way it's, you know,I see the same as you were

(01:03:21):
saying, the same pattern herewith mona in a 70 millimeter.
Let's put it out in venice andlet's prove people wrong and see
why this is a major film, amajor event, right?
Um, can they do that twice in arow after the brutalist?
I think that's the thing thatgives me a lot of pause, right?
No, I agree with everythingyou're saying and I want to jump
at this point because I thinkit's the best time to do it.

(01:03:43):
I want to jump to the topic ofbuyers and sellers at Venice.
There are more titles incompetition that I think we need
to take a look at, but they'renot necessarily the most typical
thing you see, historicallyspeaking, in terms of, you know,
foreign language films.
For example, um, you meanwinning venice, winning the
golden line.
No, I'm saying launching from avenice debut into a nomination

(01:04:07):
for best picture.
So, for example, like I saidwhen I'm still here, does it not
very many foreign films do it?
Um, certainly, a foreign film,like parallel mothers, is able
to get a nomination for aperformance, but when, when I'm
Still here, is able to go fromVenice competition into a best
picture nomination.
That does not happen very often.
I think Roma is another one,but I think that the pedigree

(01:04:28):
for Roma was so much moreimmense than that of I'm Still
here, and so it definitely canhappen.
But I think, after you know,highlighting a lot of the
English language films, we'vetouched upon a topic that I
think is really important andsomething that we should all be
looking out for, and that's theidea again of buyers and sellers
, and so the Brutalist sort ofstole the festival last year,

(01:04:50):
and it was able to get a dealfrom A24, and A24 was able to
sort of, you know, to thedetriment of Sing Sing unroll
that campaign with tremendoussuccess, winning a bunch of
Oscars and getting a nominationfor Best Picture, and so
certainly one of the most highprofile films for sale is going
to be the Testament of Anne Lee,another one is probably going

(01:05:13):
to be the Wizard of the Kremlin,right, and so I think my first
question would be what are somestudios or distributors that are

(01:05:40):
buying, because their slate ispossibly a little bit hollow on
Thinks the Campaign?
It just brought this idea to methat, you know, when you have
those two films, but especiallyAnn Lee and 70mm, when you have
that playing.
Could we see a move fromSearchlight to buy the film?
Right Right now the bestthey've got is Rental Family,
which is going to TIFF, and theyalso have Bradley Cooper's film
going to New York, but it'sjust again odd for Searchlight
not to be at Venice.
And so when you look at thefact that they're going to be,

(01:06:03):
you know, trying to push RentalFamily and Bradley Cooper's film
, which aren't going to a bunchof places at the same time, I do
wonder if they're going to feellike we could use another film
to campaign.
I mean, I'm not sure they havethe strongest actress campaign
right now and if you look belowthe line their film to campaign,
I mean, I'm not sure they havethe strongest actress campaign
right now and if you look belowthe line their their campaign is
not very good either.
I think I think the reason thatI don't love searchlight for it

(01:06:26):
and I think this is an issuethat you know uh, this film is
going to have to court that I uhthe I'm talking about the
testament of anne lee that thebuddhalist was able possibly to
court better, and it's that.
How much of an audience isthere for a musical about the
Shakers founder.
You know, I'm just not sure.

(01:06:46):
To me it doesn't sound likesomething that's destined to
make a lot of money and that'sokay.
We don't care about that.
But unfortunately the industrycares and the Brutalists was
able to mount a huge financialsuccess.
I think remember the film wasmade for, I think like $10
million or something like that,which is just astounding and

(01:07:08):
mount a big success out of thisepic story about this architect.
That campaign really worked.
But can you really spin thiskind of movie into that kind of
success?
I'm not sure.
Yeah, no, I'm not sure.
So I think that that would besomething that gives a lot of
buyers pause.
Yeah, it could be, and then theother studio correct me if I'm

(01:07:28):
wrong.
That is possibly a little bitlight on things.
To campaign, unless they launchsome surprising campaigns by
the end of the year, is maybeSony Picture Classics right,
they don't have a very big slate, but again, like movie, they
just spent so much effortgetting I'm still here into best

(01:07:49):
picture that maybe they're alsogoing to say I think I need to
sit this round out maybe moviemovies, maybe not a bad one,
you're, maybe Mubi, because it'ssort of like if the best we've
got is a polarizing film likeDie my Love, which isn't going
to any festivals right now, eventhough I have a suspicion that
it will go to Telluride and morespecialized stuff like the

(01:08:10):
Mastermind Jim Jarmusch's film,right.
I do wonder if they think, well, you know what.
We might as well hedge our betsand if we can't get in Jennifer
Lawrence, her best actress, wecan get in Amanda Seyfried.
I could totally see that.
And then you always have tobring up the idea of the two
companies that maybe worked withboth those filmmakers before.
You have A24, who jumped onboard, but you know they have

(01:08:30):
Marty Supreme in the back burnerand you have to imagine that
they're all going to be on thehook for the smashing machine to
a certain degree, but otherthan that they don't have too
much.
So, for example, if Emily Bluntshifts down to supporting, they
do have a spot open to campaignfor actress.
If Amanda Seyfried is astandout, I think they've got
too much on their plate,absolutely.
I mean, I think that theirpriority is Marty Supreme, right

(01:08:53):
.
And then you know, mona,actually her last film was
handled by Bleecker.
I was thinking about Bleecker,and Bleecker, I don't think, has
anything this year, but again,I think that they spent a lot of
their effort trying to make theMike Lee film happen last year
and it didn't happen,unfortunately.
Wonderful film, it just didn'twork out.
But so I do wonder who is goingto end up stepping up to the

(01:09:17):
plate to buy these films.
Or are they going to sit therebecause no one has the resources
to buy them?
Um, for example, I don't thinkneon can buy anything.
Neon bought everything out ofcan.
I don't know how neon couldsqueeze one more dollar out of
anywhere.
Um, well, I mean they might,but that won't happen.
I don't know how they couldpossibly do it.
And so, while we're on thistopic, I think why don't we drop
the name of a few other filmsthat could potentially break out

(01:09:39):
, maybe, and that are going tobe available?
And so, like, on the out ofcompetition section, you're
going to have Gus Van Sant makea comeback with Dead Man's Wire,
which I believe is also goingto TIFF.
Yes, it is going to TIFF, basedon a real story.
Isn't it going to NYFF as well?
No, it is not.
As far as I know, it is not.
It's going to TIFF, which ismore popular.
It's interesting, based on areal-life historical event, it,

(01:10:04):
funnily enough, has anotherSkarsgård in it in the lead role
.
Al Pacino's in there somewhere,colman Domingo's in there
somewhere.
No one's bought it.
I think there had been talkabout how this project was at
one point at Warner Brotherswith one of the Hughes brothers.
It was on the blacklist agesago, I think.

(01:10:24):
So it'll be interesting to seeif this project takes off.
There's some interestingfootage, if anyone wants to
YouTube it, on the individual onwhich the film is based, and
you can find that on YouTube.
Another film from a director whohasn't been here for a while is
Julian Schnabel in the Hand ofDante, and that's again.
They've been making that filmfor years and, speaking of Oscar

(01:10:46):
Isaac, he's in that film, butit's not surprising that it's
going to be out of competition.
That seems like a title thatwould have played in competition
, and also surprising that itwon't be going to NYFF.
And they love Julian Schnabel,exactly I surprising that it
won't be going to nyff?
Exactly exactly, um, I do.
I did hear that he got intolike a some kind of issue with
his financiers because hepromised that it wasn't going to
be more than two hours.
It is.
He promised it wasn't going tobe in black and white.

(01:11:06):
It is in part, and so maybethat's where the issues come
from.
I think it's interesting becausethis cast includes jason jason
momoa, gal gadot and oscar isaacand mart Martin Scorsese and Al
Pacino, I think, and so I meanthe project sounds fascinating
to me.
It sounds fascinating.
I love Julian Schnabel, but apart of me is smelling a little

(01:11:28):
bit of Megalopolis here Could be.
There's actually a documentaryon Megalopolis going to the
festival too, by Mike Figgis,which could be fun.
So a few more titles.
Rose of Nevada is the new filmfrom Mark Jenkins, who is known
for Annie's Men, collaboratedwith Neon on that film.
Has Callum Turner in it, hasGeorge McKay, so it does have

(01:11:53):
headliners on it that you caneasily sort of distribute your
film around Going to New York,which was cool.
That looks like it's going tobe an interesting movie, it's
going to be really cool.
It's going to play on a sidesection.
We'll see if anyone picks thatup.
I think that someone will pickthat up for sure, because that's
going to New York as well.
And you have Motor City right,which is from the director of

(01:12:13):
Old Henry, which went to Venice,and you have pretty marquee
names on this.
You have Ben Foster, who isamazing, shane Woodley, alan
Richeson's in this.
I think what's fascinating hereis that this film is coming from
Black Bear, and a few weeks ago, I think, black Bear announced
that they're going to startdistributing their own movies

(01:12:34):
and distributing movies.
So, for example, at South bySouthwest, you had the Matthew
McConaughey film the rivals ofAmzia King, yeah, and so no one
picked that up.
And so Black Bear said we'll doit ourselves, and so it'll be
interesting to see.
Are they looking for a buyerhere or are they just, you know,
waiting to announce we're goingto sort of sell it ourselves?
So that'll be interesting tosee.

(01:12:56):
And then I think the last onethat I think really called my
attention was Late Fame, yeah,which is also going to New York,
yes, Features the amazingWillem Dafoe, yeah, who is
essentially in every movie thisyear.
Great Elise in that, yes,second film From Ken Jones.
Second film, or third film, Ithink it's Benicio Del Toro,

(01:13:17):
yeah, we love Kent Jones' firstfilm.
Diane.
Diane was amazing, it wasfucking incredible.
Mary Kay Place won a bunch ofcritical awards for that.
No buyer on this yet, and Ithink Killer Films is involved
with the production here.
Sammy Birch wrote thescreenplay.
Sammy Birch from May toDecember.
Who got nominated for May toDecember?
Right, great writer, absolutelyright, great writer, absolutely

(01:13:37):
.
And so this is certainly oneproject that I would keep an eye
on for someone like a sonypicture classics to really
consider picking up, becausethey don't really have anyone to
campaign for actor, um, orsupporting actress, maybe, um.
So I would definitely keep aneye on this one.
This is playing on horizons, um,and I do think that, on the

(01:13:57):
negative side, horizons hasn'thad traditionally a great
reputation for crossing over tothe Oscars.
That said, a movie likeSeptember 5 played on Horizons
opening night and obviously wasa big deal.
It was pretty close, it wasreally close and got nominations
, and so I think maybe that's atrend that we're going to see.

(01:14:18):
I think it's great that it gotselected for New York too, so I
do expect someone to pick thisup.
A lot of the people wementioned could end up being the
buyer.
Fox Searchlight could even endup buying it, so it'll be
interesting to see what happensthere.
Okay, so, going back to the maincompetition lineup, I think the
next thing to do is talk aboutsome of these foreign language
films lineup.

(01:14:39):
Um, I think the next thing todo is talk about some of these
foreign language films, um,international films that are on
here, um, and I think I want tostart with, um what I think is
the most high profile one, right, um, it's been on the news
lately because there's been sometrouble with the writers guild
war, the writers guildassociation.
That's no other choice.
Yeah, from park john wook um,park john wook, like jim
jarmusch, is more of a can guyum, and so I don't think he's

(01:15:00):
been in at venice since.
Uh, sympathy for lady vengeance.
Um, lady vengeance, the film,um, so doesn't go to venice very
often.
Again, there's just that rumorthat this was a movie that can
passed on, and venice is sort ofgetting this reputation of you
know picking up the leftoversnow, and so, um, this movie's
going to come out.
Have a trailer, I think looksgreat.
Um, the controversy, of course,is that um park jean-puk and

(01:15:24):
his co-writer, don mckellar, Ibelieve, a canadian, canadian
writer, filmmaker, um, wereworking on uh scripts for their
show the sympathizer for hbowhile the strike was going on,
and um, I think they've startedmaking statements about how you
know it's, it's it, it's not asbad as it sounds um, but um.

(01:15:45):
Anyway, really interestingthing about this movie is that
it's actually based on a donaldwestlake a good uh noir crime,
uh uh novelist novel it's calledthe Axe and that it's already
been made by Costa Gavras, whomade Z in 1969 a wonderful

(01:16:05):
filmmaker hasn't really gone tothe Academy for a while, but
this was back in 2015, I think.
He made a version of this film,and so this film, like the
other South Korean property, hashad a couple of iterations now,
so that'll be interesting tosee.
Um again, this is another southkorean um film that has that
identity that I do wonder, ifyou know we're in this place in

(01:16:25):
the industry that's growing witha growing, a more international
appetite, if we're going to beeager to have that.
And again, if you look at thestory, I think it's universal,
um, I think it has, you know,this uh subtext that a lot of
people are going to be uh ableto relate to economic woes, so
to speak.
I think the actor has also donesome work in Hollywood.

(01:16:45):
Oh, really, I think he was inthe GI Joe franchise, for
example, where he had a rolethere.
I would look for Lee Byung-hunto have possibly a breakout role
in this film, and so theproblem with no Other Choice, in
my opinion I don't know if youagree is that it is a neon film
and neon is just way too busy toreally campaign it.

(01:17:09):
And the other thing is thatPark Chan-wook has sort of
proved to just not be theacademy's taste right, but I
would watch out for this film.
I think that certainly there'spotential here.
Yeah, there's potential.
And again, roma and I'm stillhere, able to get the best
picture, parallel mothers andI'm still here able to get
performance.
But the odds are not in theirfavor and the headlines right
now are not necessarily in theirfavor, but I think the film

(01:17:30):
looks extremely timely.
Yeah and um, jeff, jeff franco,jen franco, rosie has a
documentary out.
We love jen franco.
Yeah and um, I actually thinkinteresting note about that is
that daniel blumberg is doingthe music.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah, um, and he wasshortlisted.
He's already been nominated, uhright for fire at sea and

(01:17:51):
documentary.
His last film, not tornoshortlisted for foreign film and
documentary, um, and then, forexample, another uh, foreign
film we should probably talkabout.
I can't wait for francoisozan's film, the Stranger Right.
That looks really cool.
He's had a tough time gettinginto the Oscars, though.
Right, yeah, but I loveFrancois Lauzon.
Yeah.
I think someone else to talkabout is Laszlo Nimes.

(01:18:13):
Laszlo Nimes yeah, he's got anew film with Orphan.
Yes, right, his last film thatwent to Venice did not do great,
which was Sunset.
I was not a fan of that film atall.
I enjoyed it but I think thathe Can might be a little bit
better for him.
And again, there's just thatidea that they can pass on this
film.
I think it could be a goodcontender for Hungary of

(01:18:35):
Hungary's submission.
Then again, you have thefilmmaker Ild El Dico and Yeti.
She's directing Silent Friendand she was previously nominated
for On Body and Soul in 2017.
That could end up beingHungary's choice for the Oscar.
Again.
This is another title thattechnically was sort of pitched
at the Cannes market, so youwould have thought that this

(01:18:56):
would have been in the officiallineup, but it was not.
Opening night is going to havePaolo Sorrentino for La Grazia.
That's a film from mooby um,and it's again really
interesting because I thinkpaulo, despite being italian,
has had a preference to show hisfilms at can, and so usually
what happens is that paulo runsto some kind of trouble at can
and then goes back to veniceright and then has a good

(01:19:18):
resurgence at venice and then isable to go to can again.
Um, he, he's coming offParthenope, which had issues,
but his last film at Venice wasactually the Hand of God, which
was able to get him anothernomination for foreign language
film.
I think, for example, theTunisian filmmaker, kator
Benhania, has had success at theOscars recently and so she had

(01:19:40):
the man who Sold His Skinnominated for Foreign Language
Film and Four Daughters and FourDaughters exactly Nominated for
Documentary Films Submitted forForeign Language Film that year
and it made the shortlist.
So look out for her film, theVoice of Hin Rajab, which is
actually going to address, Ithink, a real story that took
place in everything that's goingon in Gaza, and so that could

(01:20:02):
certainly be attention grabbingto voters and to press and to
viewers.
So watch out for that filmthat's in competition.
Pietro Marcello has a new film,deuce.
His last film, warden Eden, didreally well.
Beautiful film.
I think this is a dark horsecontender for best actress.

(01:20:22):
Oh, valeria.
Valeria Bruni, yes, couldhappen well, um, beautiful film.
I think this is a dark horsecontender for best actress.
Oh, valeria.
Valeria bruni, yes, uh, couldhappen.
Um, actually, I think based ona real person too, so that
should be interesting.
Um, the problem with pietro istechnically, for some reason,
whenever he's at venice, he endsup losing the submission from
italy because palo sorrentino isalways there, and so that's
unfortunate for him.
Um, another film for example totalk about is um kaya malaga.
That's unfortunate for him.

(01:20:43):
Another film, for example, totalk about is Kaya Malaga.
That's a film I thought wouldhave gone to Cannes, and from
the Moroccan filmmaker, mariamTouzani.
Again, I thought it would havegone to Cannes because Touzani's
previous films, the BlueCaptain and Adam, went to Cannes
, and Blue Captain had a lot offans, I think, in the Answer and
Regard section, and both thosefilms were the submission from
Morocco, and this film is partlyfunded by Morocco Filmmakers

(01:21:07):
Moroccan so it could end upbeing their choice.
That said, the star is theCarmen Moura, who is just
amazing, and to see herheadlining a film is just going
to be an absolute treat.
If we're talking about foreignfilms, I think it's interesting
to note that I think the onlydebut film that is going to be
in competition is actually afilm from Xu Qi I believe is the

(01:21:29):
way you pronounce her name andmost people are going to know
her from the Assassin and justan actor who regularly works
with Hao Shao-shin, and so Ithink it's interesting that she
got invited to competition.
So I'm anxious to see how thatdebut turns out.
She's amazing in the Assassin.
On the documentary front, wehave some interesting titles.

(01:21:51):
We're going to have, forexample, mark by Sophia, from
Sofia Coppola by Marc Jacobs.
That could be a visuallyinteresting film.
Werner Herzog, who's winningsome kind of, I think, a
Lifetime Achievement Award, hasa documentary, ghost Elephants,
and that's probably going toplay for sure in Telluride.
Oh, interesting, he says it'snot, you know, any type of sort
of natural documentary.
I think there's some black andwhite footage into it.

(01:22:12):
It's a fascinating premise.
You guys want to read about it.
I can't wait for this film.
It's absolutely fascinating,and Wer Farzog is one of the
greats, so I can't wait for that.
Ross McElwee, the Americandocumentarian, is showing a new
documentary called Remake, whichis actually, I think, about the
death of his son, and it'sgoing to, I think, use sort of

(01:22:32):
home video footage.
That could be a reallyinteresting project.
And then you have a film byAlexandre Ophelipe, 7852.
That film was about theinfamous shower scene in Psycho.
His new film is actually aboutKim Novak.
I think it's called Kim Novak'sVertigo and I think it's about
her experience on that film.
Kim Novak, I think, isreceiving some kind of award, a

(01:22:54):
Lifetime Achievement Award, fromVenice as well, and then I
think the more notable sort ofmaybe films that could
potentially break into the Oscarrace could include, for example
, cover Up from Laura Poitras,who last time she was in Venice
won the Golden Line for All theBeauty and the Bloodshed.
This is out of competition.

(01:23:14):
It will be playing in New Yorkas well.
It's also going to Telluride,most likely.
Yeah, so maybe Telluridedefinitely going to uh.
So maybe, tell you right,definitely going to new york.
I think it's interesting thatit's out of competition.
Um plan b is on the productionhere.
Um, which is good.
Um, cover up, I think.
Um, it's going to be a, aportrait on um, this writer who
uh discussed and wrote about um,I think, the practice of, of

(01:23:37):
torture from the americanmilitary, so that should be
interesting.
Asima herschel is, I believe,his name Distribution up for
grabs.
Her previous film was releasedby Neon, so I do wonder if Neon
is going to take the bait andtry to release this.
Lucretia Martel has adocumentary on Javier Chocobar
called Landmarks, and I thinkpeople have been waiting for

(01:23:58):
this one for a while.
Can't wait for that to be thatfilm about Chocobar, who was, I
think, assassinated on videotrying to fight for indigenous
land rights this was inArgentina.
No distribution on this yeteither.
Could potentially be a choicefor Argentina to send for
international film, also playingNew York film festival, and

(01:24:19):
also might play a telly ride, Ithink.
Oh, there you go.
And Lucretia Martel has been ajury president before.
Yes, this is not in competition.
However, you have the Tale ofCillian, which is from the
director Tamara Kotevska fromNorth Macedonia, who had a
tremendous amount of successwith Honeyland a few years ago,
getting into both documentaryand international film.
That was again released by neon.

(01:24:41):
Um, part of the production hereis coming from concordia, um,
which helped make thedocumentary summer of soul time.
Michael j fox's documentary,still um.
Davis guggenheim behind thatcompany of of an inconvenient
truth fame um.
So watch for those movies topop.
And then, personally, I can'twait for broken english um from
jane billard and ian forsyth.
Um, they're the wonderfulfilmmakers from the Nick Cave

(01:25:03):
documentary 20,000 Days on Earth, yeah, and that's going to have
Tilda Swinton and George McKay.
Yeah, and Nick Cave andCourtney Love, and it's going to
be about the English singer,marianne Faithfull, and it's
called Broken English, after heralbum called Broken English.
That sounds great.
And then another title that Ireally wanted to point out was a
film playing out of competitionum called scarlet uh, from

(01:25:24):
mamoru hosada and um.
His film, mirai, was able toget a nomination in 2018 for
animated feature um, and then hereleased bell in the can
premiere section in 2021.
A lot of people thought thatwould get in.
G kids handled their release onbell and it fell short of a
nomination.
Um.
They were able to get Mariah inafter a director's Fortnite

(01:25:45):
premiere in Cannes in 2018.
So I'm curious to see whathappens.
I think what's fascinating hereis that Scarlett is going to
play New York Film Festival,which is a great get.
Mirai did not.
I actually don't even thinkBell played New York.
The other thing is that Sonywill be releasing this film, and

(01:26:05):
so I think that it may havesome crossover success with US
audiences.
So I really look forward toseeing what the reception is,
and I definitely think that's atitle to watch in the animated
feature race, yeah, and I thinkwe all anticipate what's going
to happen with venice.

(01:26:26):
I think one movie that we haveto talk about, we haven't talked
about yet, um, is lucaguadagnino's.
After the hunt, I left it forlast, right, I left it, which
you know.
Luca guadagnino is no strangerto venice.
Um, he won the director prize,I, I believe, for Bones and All.
He's a favorite there.

(01:26:48):
Challengers was supposed topremiere there, but then they
moved it, the studio moved it,so then they took it out of the
Venice premiere.
Amazon MGM was a studio on thatas well.
Yes, queer went there last yearand this year he's going, but
out of competition.
And so for me, for me and you,joseph, I feel like it's a

(01:27:09):
little bit of a red flag.
It's attention calling at least.
Yeah, I don't know why theywould put Luca Guadagnino, a
Luca Guadagnino film, outside ofcompetition, unless the film is
just not as good as the otherLuca Guadagnino films Suspiria
forgot to mention that one.
A bigger splash, a biggersplash.
Yeah, exactly so.
He's a perennial favorite here.

(01:27:30):
To be out of competition isvery strange.
The last time I think he wasout of competition was for I Am
Love on a parallel section,right, I think.
I'm not even sure.
I think that might have been incompetition too.
No, it was Bela, and so it'svery strange for him to be out
of competition.
The film is going to have itsNorth American premiere at NYFF,

(01:27:52):
so that's interesting, but itwon't be going to Telluride.
So I don't know, I smell somered flags here that possibly the
movie is just not as good asLuca Guad guaranino's past films
.
Maybe it's going to be one ofhis weaker films.
Um, I personally wasn't crazyabout the trailer that I saw,
and we can reveal that actually,joseph has read an early draft

(01:28:16):
of the script.
I have been exposed to an earlydraft of the scripts.
It was an interesting read.
I think the script has changed alot.
You think so, but I think thatinevitably there's going to be
some part of the script in thefilm, and I can sort of see it
in the previews, and so thescript, I think, isn't as

(01:28:43):
developed as it could be.
I think it's an odd choice forLuca Guadagnino, and so Luca
Guadagnino is teaming up herewith Julia Roberts, which people
are talking about for BestActress, andrew Garfield for
Supporting Actor Ada Barry,supporting Actress Michael
Stuhlberg's in this, again,because Michael Stuhlberg is in
every Luca Guadagnino film,thank God.
Well, actually you know he'snot in Challengers.

(01:29:04):
I know what's up with that.
Let's re-edit that and putMichael Stuhlberg in.
Let's make the movie better,anyway.
So I think there's a lot ofanticipation for this film.
I was really surprised to see itout of competition, or is it
the reverse, that you were notso surprised after reading the
script?
I guess you're right.
After reading the script, I'mnot surprised to see it out of

(01:29:26):
competition.
I'm surprised that LucaGuadagnino directed it.
And even looking at the trailer, I think you know I'm surprised
that Luca Guadagnino directedthat.
Also, the trailer is odd to me,like for me, so much was off.
The tone seemed a little off tome.
So much, so much was off.
The tone seemed a little off tome.

(01:29:46):
His compositions, which arenormally so impacting for me was
, were also off.
I think the acting is a littlebit on a, on a different level
than what he's usually workingwith.
He's also working with briangrazer for the first time, I
think b Grazer, the go-toproducer for Ron Howard, a long
standing collaboration, butBrian Grazer, I believe, is a

(01:30:07):
producer on this film.
I kind of wonder.
This is maybe the rare film thatLuca doesn't go to the table
with, but instead he's invitedto the table and the movie's
already there, if that kind ofmakes sense.
And my pitch to you was themost I see Luca Guadagnino on
here is, you know, technically,a discussion with Amazon, mgm.
We helped you make challengers,right, so now you give us one.

(01:30:31):
You think so, maybe.
Maybe the thing that reallythrows me off, that really
throws me off, is the invitationto NYFF by Dennis Lim.
I think Dennis has, you know,yeah, he's very fine taste, very
fine taste, and he's veryscrutinizing.
He doesn't invite just anyoneand it's not, I think, even on

(01:30:52):
the spotlight section there,it's in the main slate.
However, I do want to say, andthis is important context in
that, you know, an Amazon and GMfilm has lately found its way
into the nyff lineup, and thisyear I mean last year was nickel
boys, um.
So I'm just saying they have apresence at this nyff lineup and

(01:31:13):
this year their horse is afterthe hunt.
That is true, that isabsolutely true.
That said, luca doesn't, isn'talways invited to new york, um,
and the other thing I'll say isthat the New York lineup in
general has me a little bit, uh,perplexed.
I mean, I would not havefigured, necessarily both the
inclusion of is this Mike on?

(01:31:33):
And after the hunt.
So I do, we'll see and maybeI'm just I'm going to be
incredibly surprised by thefilms.
Um, but I think you know, basedon discussions we've had about
the script and we'll talk moreabout it I mean we're about to
see what the actual film, theresponse to the film, is, and
it'd be interesting to see thedifferences between you know
what people are saying the filmis about and what it feels like

(01:31:54):
watching it and the script thatyou read.
But certainly, I wonder, wehave, we've had these
discussions where is this filmtrying to be?
Like a more watered downversion of, like tar?
Yes, you know, those are kindof the vibes that I was getting
from the trailer and from thediscussions we were having and I
just, yeah, I think thatthere's an element to that.

(01:32:15):
I think people are excitedbecause Julia Roberts is going
to be in a more complicated,complicated role, possibly a
more highbrow movie.
Andrew Garfield is getting castin a role that you know he
doesn't typically get, ayoDeberry doing a dramatic role,
which is not necessarily whatshe's known to do in movies, and

(01:32:35):
again you have Luca Guadagninoand I.
I also brought up the idea,well like, maybe, after
exploring the trio andchallengers, he really wanted to
flip that and explore adifferent kind of trio, maybe,
right, um, but I think there's alot of things that throw me off
about this film.
Uh, I will.
I think it's important tomention a couple of things about
out of competition, which is,again, it's outside of those two

(01:32:59):
films that generally get in forvenice competition into best
picture.
That said, they do happen.
Sometimes.
A star is born, he's able to doit.
It's outside of those two filmsthat generally get in for
Venice competition into BestPicture.
That said, they do happen.
Sometimes.
A Star is Born, is able to doit.
Hacksaw Ridge is able to do it,and so some films that have
been able to go from out ofcompetition to Best Picture are
Gravity, spotlight, hacksawRidge, a Star is Born and Dune,

(01:33:20):
and so it's really those five.
A Star is Born and Dune, and soit's really those five.
Maybe, if there was 10 spots in2020, one Night in Miami could
have maybe done it.
Other films to be out ofcompetition and get some kind of
nomination were Society of theSnow and WE and Victoria and
Abdul.
I remember they invitedConclave last year yeah, out of

(01:33:43):
competition, and conclave sortof passed and said, no thanks,
yeah, um, but that would havebeen again.
It's a movie that's highquality enough it would have
still gotten all those oscarnominations.
You'd have to think that thereason why they invited it to
out of competition is becauseartistically maybe it wasn't as
confrontational or challenging,um, and so maybe that that's
just the thing with After theHunt.
It's a very good execution of a, of a more typical or or um

(01:34:08):
routine type of movie, um, but Ido think that you know of that
list that I that I said.
You know Gravity Stars Born, uh,hacksaw Ridge, um, all those
movies benefited, I think, frombox office.
Yes, box office is a huge,important part as to why they
get into best picture andbecause this is an Amazon MGM

(01:34:31):
release, I do wonder if, uh,they're going to be able to
replicate that strategy.
You know, the box office fornickel boys wasn't, was mostly
non-existent, however, plan Bwas behind that film.
Right, it was mostlynon-existent, however, plan B
was behind that film.
And Air Force, right,absolutely, and Nickel Boys
doesn't need money.
But I think that, technically,you want this film to make some

(01:34:51):
money.
At the same time, it's fromAmazon, so Amazon doesn't care,
amazon just wants to put it ontheir streamer, right?
I think the other thing besidesmoney that sticks out to me from
these titles that are able tosort of cross over from out of
competition into best picture,the other thing that sticks out
to me is gravity star is born,uh, dune, for instance.
Those are all warner brothersmovies, yeah, um.

(01:35:13):
And so warner brothers isbetter at you know, you know
campaigning that populist film,yeah, um.
So I think it'll be interestingto see.
It'll be interesting to see.
It'll be interesting to see ifthe movie is going to be able to
cross over.
I have my deep suspicions.
I think there's something aboutbecause I think they're playing
on the same day, right theJulia Roberts and the George
Clooney movie.
There's something kind of weirdabout that for me, right?

(01:35:36):
You know the two actors fromTickets to Paradise or Ticket to
Paradise, you know, getting thesame Venice date.
Obviously they want to put allthe star wattage on just that
one day.
It's also the premiere ofBegonia, I think.
Oh, really, I think so, yeah,okay, really interesting, yeah,

(01:35:57):
but yeah, you can already sortof see that if the movies take
off.
You know sort of see that ifthe movies take off, you know
Julia Roberts and George Clooneyare essentially going to
campaign each other all yearlong, which could which is
really going to benefit them,but could also maybe go a little
tedious.
Yeah, and I will also say thatI don't know if the Academy of
today is really, you know, theAcademy of yesteryear where, you

(01:36:19):
know, julia Roberts and GeorgeClooney reigned supreme, you
know kind of thing.
You know, I think that maybewe're in a new age.
So in a way, I kind of, rightnow, my gut is that it's
unlikely that both of them willplay huge factors into the
awards race.
It'll be one of their movies,not both, um and I.

(01:36:40):
Just, you know the discussionswe've had after you've read the
script and what I saw in thetrailer and I'm a huge Luca
Guadagnino fan, by the way I'mjust not, I'm not loving it
right now.
I'm very iffy about it, butmaybe it's, you know, possibly
middle of the road enough forthe Oscars to finally be like,
okay, yeah, I'll watch this,like I'm only going to watch
five minutes of queer, but I cansit through all after the hunt.

(01:37:02):
You know what I mean, or I?
What was the bigger splashabout, anyway?
Or Suspiria, like what wasgoing on there?
All great films, yeah, yeah, Ijust think it's interesting that
he wasn't invited intocompetition.
And I also think it'sinteresting that, like I think
that if it was a great movie,they would not have had any
hesitation in inviting the LucaGuadagnino into competition.

(01:37:23):
It's because it's not like he'swon the big one.
Yeah, he hasn't, and he can'twin the big one for this one.
We know that.
But I also think it'sinteresting, sort of it's
emblematic of where theindustry's at now, where you
have these two marquee starsfrom, you know, 20 years ago
premiering films essentiallytogether at Venice.

(01:37:44):
They just also happen to befilms that are going to have a
stronger impact on streamingthan theaters, and you don't
really, you know, you don'treally think of George Clooney
and Julia Roberts as streamingstars, but I think that's kind
of where we're at as an industry, right, and it's tough to think
about their last films thatexisted in a more traditional

(01:38:07):
form, and I wonder if that'sgoing to be a turnoff, like when
you have Julia Roberts in thatfilm with Mahershala Ali that
did really well on Netflix.
That's sort of end of the world.
And you have George Clooney inMidnight Sky.
They're not films that arenecessarily poorly received and
that they don't have a bad wordof mouth and bad press.

(01:38:27):
There's just something aboutbecause they're not playing the
way that's considered.
More Oscar-friendly theaters,for example, they're just easier
to forget about.
I guess Begonia is still goingto have to come out in 2,000
theaters and make some money,you know.
So I do think that it'll beinteresting to see if this

(01:38:49):
festival is going to show like aresurgence for both of those
stars At the same time, inshowing that, it's also going to
admit that maybe box office isless important and that you know
, streaming is as valid asanything, and that maybe it's
not important how many theatersAmazon gets for After the Hunt
or how much money it makes, andit can go from out of

(01:39:10):
competition not making muchmoney at all and into a Best
Picture nomination just becauseit's that great to see Julia
Roberts in that role again, orwhether maybe we're right
there's something that you knowat the core is going to end up
tripping up both films.
Yeah, right, you know to toclose off our discussion on on
venice, and we'll be keep trackof all the developments and all

(01:39:32):
the news you know on on thewebsite, hopefully, and on
social, on social media, and youcan always follow us.
Um, but my, I think it'd begreat to close it by asking you,
knowing now that if I were toask you to select two films that
are going to graduate frombeing in Venice competition into

(01:39:56):
a Best Picture nomination, whattwo films do you select?
Yeah, right now, I think Iwould go with A House of
Dynamite as the Netflix filmthat splashes.
It doesn't have to be a Netflixfilm, right, but let's say,
netflix has three films incompetition.
Yeah, so A House of Dynamite,the Netflix film, and Begonia

(01:40:22):
Begonia from Focus Focus.
Yes, focus was able to get Tarin.
Yes, do you think Netflix canhave both movies come from their
camp?
I mean, searchlight was able todo this 2017, shape of Water
and Three Billboards outside ofMissouri.
Do you think Netflix has whatit takes to get two movies in at

(01:40:44):
the same time?
I think it could happen.
I think it could happenconsidering the horses.
I mean, I like the team behindJay Kelly, I love the story and
the premise and all thetimeliness of A House of
Dynamite and I love thecraftsmanship of Frankenstein.
So I think, yeah, it can happenOn paper.
For me, the movie that I thinkthat could really break out from

(01:41:05):
what I know about it is noOther Choice.
But the whole neon factor Ithink is super detrimental.
So if I had to pick two movies,I think you're right.
Netflix has been able to getfour of their films from In
Competition into Best Picturenominations and they have three
this year.
So I think one is automaticallya Netflix film and then I think

(01:41:25):
the other one because it shouldbe a film that sort of crosses
over into these other areas likeacting, writing, directing, and
is not a foreign film.
Typically, I do think that thebest candidate would be Begonia,
so I agree with you on that.
As far as netflix, I knowyou're saying a house of
dynamite and it makes a lot ofsense to me.

(01:41:47):
But seeing you know the footageand and the posters we have so
far and knowing, for example,that alexander payne is the jury
president, um, I'm going tolean in the area that jake Jay
Kelly is going to be the bigstandout.
Yeah, it could happen.
So Jay Kelly from Netflix andBegonia from Focus Features is

(01:42:10):
what I'll pitch.
Okay, okay, and again, we'llsee very soon how right or wrong
we are and how right our deepdives were.
And so, just really quick.
You know, telluride doesn't,famously doesn't reveal their
lineup until the start of thefestival.
Um, I was fortunate enough togo into Telluride Film Festival

(01:42:30):
a while back, a while back, uh,it was one of my favorite
experiences ever.
I love that festival.
Um, and some titles, just basedon the selections of the other
festivals and the premierestatus, that I think have a good
shot of showing up at TallyRide.
Hamnet, I think, is ano-brainer lock to premiere at

(01:42:50):
Tally Ride.
We expect it to do well thereand solidify its Oscar campaign.
Ballad of a Small Player.
If I had Legs I'd Kick.
You should be there.
We saw that at Sundance.
It was just an accident.
Novo, vox, sentimental Value,the Secret Agent, all Cannes
films that we saw.
Train Dreams, a film that wemissed at Sundance, I think has

(01:43:12):
a good chance of showing up at aplace like Telluride.
It's going to Toronto.
Tuner, which I think is aDustin Hoffman film, a film that
Dustin Hoffman is in.
That should be going to TallyRide.
I wonder if this standoutSundance film that we didn't
catch, unfortunately Black NewsTerms and Conditions.
It's going to NYFF.

(01:43:32):
I think that might show up atTally Ride.
The Laura Portris documentarycover-up should be there.
Jay Kelly, I think is ano-brainer to be there.
The Mastermind, I think is verylikely from Kelly Radker.
We saw that at Cannes.
Peter Hujar's Day is coming outsoon, I think November-ish.
That was a standout at Sundance.

(01:43:53):
That again we unfortunatelymissed.
But I think that has a goodchance of showing up at
Telluride.
Blue Moon, which was a Berlinpremiere from Richard Linklater,
I think that stands a goodchance.
Both Richard Linklater films Ithink will be there.
I wonder if La Grazia will makea stop at Telluride after Venice
.
Pillion, I think might be there.

(01:44:13):
The Perfect Neighbor, thedocumentary which we saw at
Sundance, I think it should playthere as well.
Dracula, I wonder if that'llplay possibly after um, after
it's Locarno premiere.
Uh, telluride, I mean it was.
It's gotten very uh bizarrereactions out of Locarno.
Um.
Radu Jude, that was a brilliantfilmmaker.
I look forward to seeing that.

(01:44:34):
Um.
Uh, there's a documentary aboutwith Hassan, uh, called with
Hassan and Gaza.
I think that might go there.
I wonder if the Darden brothersand my favorite Cannes film,
the Young Mother's Home willshow up there.
I think that they very wellmight.
And you know there's a website,a blog that Joseph introduced

(01:44:54):
me to, called Michael'sTelluride Blog.
Oh yeah, that's great which isa great blog, and I really
recommend you guys check it outif you ever can.
And he spends a great deal oftime and effort and research
into predicting the lineup for atelly ride and he's usually
spot on.
So I mean, just looking at hislast post, the films that he
sees as going in, and again, Iwould take this, as you know,

(01:45:16):
very good information and Ithink he really knows what he's
talking about.
He's got Hamnet it was just anaccident.
Sentimental Value, the Balladof a Small Player, secret Agent
Novo Vogue, tuner Springsteen,deliver Me From Nowhere should
be going there as well.
I think that that's.
I think he predicts that itwill, and I agree with him.
The History of Sound, which Iwas able to see at Cannes, sort

(01:45:41):
of has been quieting down sinceits Cannes premiere wasn't all
that.
The release date is actuallycoming up pretty soon, very soon
.
I liked it, but I think it wasmore of a muted reaction at
Cannes.
Jay Kelly he's predicting JayKelly.
Begonia, the mastermind,cover-up, ghost Elephants,
herzog.
Herzog is a favorite atTelluride Pileon, la Grazia

(01:46:04):
Resurrection by B Gann, which wetalked about.
We missed it, unfortunately.
I can Nuestra Tierra, which isthe Lucretia Martel documentary.
I think it's Landmarks, yeah,it's Landmarks in English
Nuestra Tierra, in Spanish, blueMoon, maybe A Private Life,

(01:46:26):
which was a film by a filmmakerwho we like, that's right,
rebecca Zlatowski, and it wentto Cannes.
We missed it, though, withJodie Foster.
So you should see those filmscomfortably get into the
Telluride lineup when it'srevealed.
He's got good intel, yeah, verygood, and we look forward to

(01:46:46):
seeing what the reaction isgoing to be post the beginning
days of Venice and the famousweekend of Telluride.
We're going to know a lot.
We're going to know a lotalready, and after the awards
race, I think most films willhave been seen.
Just a number of them won't.
I think there's still a rumorthat Marty Supreme might make a

(01:47:09):
pit stop at the NYFF.
No, oh well, they always havethat sort of scene.
Yeah, yeah.
So I think that's very possible.
I thought that might be Paul.
No, paul, pta is going to showby then, right, yes, september.
We can't wait for the PTA film,of course, and so you know, in
the next two months, we'll havea much better impression of what

(01:47:32):
the race is going to look likeand I think it'll be a little
bit easier for you and I to sortof shape the race.
Yeah, be able to make our calls, yeah, and some of those calls,
I think, will be spot on, andhopefully some of our
predictions with how these filmsare going to turn out at these
festivals isn't too far off,we'll see.
All right.
Well, for Academy Anonymous.

(01:47:53):
This is Joseph signing off.
This is Jules, and it's been apleasure See you next time.
The music on this episode,entitled cool cats, was
graciously provided by kevinmcleod and incompetechcom,

(01:48:14):
licensed under creative commonsby attribution 3.0
http//creativecommonsorglicenses buy 3.0.
Disclaimer the AcademyAnonymous podcast is in no way

(01:48:38):
affiliated or endorsed by theAcademy of Motion Picture Arts
and Sciences.

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