Oscar Season 2025-2026; Sundance Film Festival Re-Cap; New Voices, Splashy Premieres, Skittish Distributors and Titles That Can Go the Distance

Episode Transcript
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Jules (00:13):
hey, welcome back to academy, anonymous, I'm jules
and I'm joseph and welcome toour first episode of season two,
covering everything from theoscar race to interesting news
happening in the industry, tofilms and film culture.
Um, and we just finished wavinggoodbye to the 2024 2025 oscar

(00:34):
season, um, and we're beginningthis new chapter right, and
we're very excited because lastwe actually started this podcast
a few months ago yeah, so wewere starting the 2024 2025
season around december, whichwas really the end really close

(00:55):
to the close to the end thatfirst phase exactly of the
nominations being revealed bythe academy, and so you know, we
started pretty sort of verymuch in media rest and we got to
see it through, but this isactually our first opportunity
to tackle the race from the verybeginning.
So that's pretty exciting andwe're glad that you're here with

(01:17):
us.

Joseph (01:17):
Right.
So Oscar season 2025 to 2026,blank page, starting completely
new, fresh.
Everything from last year isgone, is by the wayside yeah
we'll see.
Maybe there's going to be afactor and some carryover could
be really interesting.
Right, but a whole brand newboard to start with and everyone

(01:38):
starts at zero right right, andI couldn't think of a better
way than to launch our secondseason, than to discuss what is
probably one of the biggestevents you know for pieces on
the board officially and what wethink some of their strengths
and weaknesses are some of thethings that caught our eye.

Jules (02:10):
I think that's the best place to start yeah, and some of
the things we might starttalking about now we might be
talking about all as wellthroughout the year, exactly as
uh, things start to heat up,exactly um, and you know what?
The Sundance is always a veryinteresting thing because it's
uh, you know, such a worldfamous festival, especially for
independent film.

(02:31):
But it always happens typicallyright smack in the middle of
all this Oscar chaos.
The nominations have come out,the uh campaigning for the phase
two of the Oscar winners isbeginning is underfoot, so it's
sort of happening right at amoment when everyone is sort of
really focused on what's goingto happen with the oscars yeah

(02:51):
and so it always feels like soearly to start talking about
films for the following year,when the oscar ceremony hasn't
even wrapped up yet yeahum, so in that way the sentence
is kind of strange, the timingright, but it's also exciting
because you get your firstglimpse of films that are going
to be talked about throughoutthe year, hopefully, yeah, and

(03:12):
in that way it's a very excitingfestival and we had the
opportunity to attend this year.
We saw a large number of films,both in person and virtual, and
, of course, with the that uhSundance may be moving soon.
You know it's one of the finalopportunities you have to see uh

(03:33):
the Sundance lineup andscreenings in the Utah location,
which is so synonymous with uhSundance, it's success, its
legacy.
So that's always nice.
And yeah, what do you think?

Joseph (03:47):
I completely agree.
Very fortunate to be able tohead out over there and meet a
lot of really interesting peopleattending screenings, working
the festival.
I also think you know there'sno better time to be talking
about Sundance, because rightnow I think Deadline was
reporting that Utah's governoris having an issue with the idea

(04:08):
that they want to ban the prideflag from sort of government
institutions and that is goingto directly affect whether
Sundance participates in thatstate.
I think it's an absolutelyexcuse me, I think it's an
absolute no-brainer for Utahstate.
Excuse me, I think it's anabsolute no-brainer for Utah
State, Utah government officials, the people of Utah.
It is dumb to force Sundanceout of Utah, so synonymous.

(04:32):
The experience with Utah.
In the background, suchappreciation that festival goers
have for Utah and theinfrastructure they have there,
is just amazing.
To sort of split hairs on anissue that is that stupid is
just really sad anddisappointing.
And there's snow and mountainsin other areas.
Colorado is right there.

(04:53):
You know what I mean, so don'tmess this up for a stupid reason
.

Jules (04:58):
Yeah, and that's part and parcel with the climate that
we're all undergoing right now,which just seems to be filled
with disappointing, justdisappointment after
disappointment, news and newsand news.
So it's not surprising, butit's very disappointing to hear,
right, and so we'll see whathappens there.
Yeah.

(05:19):
I certainly think they're goingto end up moving to a different
location, which again is goingto be bittersweet, because,
again, the Utah mountains hasbeen always so synonymous with
the experience of Sundance as awhole.
Yeah, but it's tough to gowhere you're not welcome.
Absolutely, a hundred percent,I agree.
We're not welcome.
Don't worry, there are plentyof other places They'll be happy
to have us, exactly.

Joseph (05:39):
All right.
Well, let's start digging intothese lineups, and I think the
best way to proceed is let'stalk about documentaries first
and then we'll work our way intothe narrative films.
And I think the reason for thatis because, you know, looking
through Sundance history, one ofthe things that sticks out
foremost in my mind is that thisis the place where you want to

(06:02):
premiere a documentary Rightmind is that this is the place
where you want to premiere adocumentary right.
This is an excellent place forthe future of documentary
filmmakers.
They have a lot of support fromthe institution, sundance
Institute, but beyond that,members are going to be watching
these films, the films thatwere selected, the films that
won some type of award, thefilms that were able to get a
lot of attention.
And I think this is the bestplace to start, because Sundance

(06:27):
is so documentary rich, yeah.

Jules (06:28):
And when we mentioned members, again we're talking
about, you know big picture, youknow eventually the Oscar
Academy members.

Joseph (06:37):
Right, exactly.
So you know, from what I'veseen historically, we'll be
seeing maybe, at least I want tosay, two to three eventual
Oscar nominees for BestDocumentary from within this
lineup of US documentary, worlddocumentary and possibly
premieres, and that's justnominees.
When we talk about theshortlist that I think I believe

(06:59):
includes up to 15 films, we'llbe seeing many more shortlisted.
The films here are incrediblypopular, they have a lot of
success down the line andthey're just wonderful every
year and this year was noexception and there's a lot of
titles that are already workingtheir way up that sort of
screening list that members aregoing to start, you know,

(07:19):
developing over a year's worthof of time of movies premiering
and then reading stories on themand then seeing it win awards
and premiere in certainfestivals.
So there are a lot of standoutdocumentaries already.

Jules (07:31):
Right, and so, as you were saying, joseph, sundance is
such an important platform fordocumentaries, you can expect
many of these documentaries tobe films that people and critics
and voters discuss andcontemplate throughout the rest
of the year.
Um, looking at the us uhdocumentary competition, um,

(07:56):
there are a few titles here thatI think uh really stood out and
people were very much talkingabout, very much had a lot of
buzz, and so let's see uh, acrowd favorite was selena y los
dinos, yep, uh, which I believenetflix is in the hunt to try to
pick up, um, I believe, if I'mnot incorrect, obviously, a

(08:16):
documentary about the greatselena quintanilla, and never
before seen footage of her andher family and her band, los
dinos, and so, um, that's goingto be a crowd pleaser.
And there's a film that manypeople talked about and I
believe it's actually premiering.
I mean, it's it's also having ascreening at south by southwest

(08:38):
currently, um, and it's uh, theperfect neighbor, oh yeah,
right, which we got a chance tosee, which is a very compelling
documentary, a very powerfuldocumentary, very disturbing
documentary, about a dispute inan impoverished Florida
neighborhood that escalates intosomething really ugly and

(09:00):
catastrophic and that made quitea few waves.

Joseph (09:04):
Yeah, absolutely, and catastrophic, um, and that made
quite a few waves.
Yeah, absolutely, I think thatwas certainly one of the most
talked about titles on thefestival roster narrative or
documentary.
A lot of people were able towatch it, you know, without you
know.
Going too deep into spoilers, Iwill say that the way the film
is composed it reminded me a lotof last year's nominee composed

(09:26):
it reminded me a lot of lastyear's nominee for documentary
short film incident.

Jules (09:28):
Yeah, because the film yeah, the film is using a lot of
found I mean a lot of uh mediathat already exists, you know
exactly right, it's using it'ssort of reappropriating this
footage that is already inexistence so this isn't a sort
of documentary that's going togive you the talking heads or
recreations.

Joseph (09:48):
It's really using a lot of factual material and putting
you sort of right in the middleof the situation.
Yeah, the editing is quiteremarkable.
A lot of people have talkedabout it, but I definitely think
this is going to be one of thestandout documentaries from the
entire year yeah I completelyexpected to be shortlisted and
to be in the hunt for the topfive spots and I would call it a

(10:10):
favorite.
Right now, I will say this wasone of the first films.
One of the really a patternthat happened in the festival,
unfortunately, is that this isone of the only films to get
picked up right away.
Yeah, right, and so netflixpicked this up and that, that,
I'm gonna say, is my worry,because I think netflix,
actually their documentaries,they don't.

(10:30):
They do well, absolutely verywell here, even though something
like daughters yeah left offhere right, I did, but they do
really well here, um, butthere's something about watching
this sort of but there'ssomething about watching this
sort of reappropriated footage,I think, in a theater with other
people.
That is quite striking and I'mafraid that because of the

(10:53):
nature of the documentary, itmight get sort of lost in the
sort of Netflix content realmand it might not get the moment
in film culture that it deservesand that it would have would it
come out in a theater or thatyou know people were to see it
in a group.
You know there's somethingabout putting the netflix n on
it that I'm afraid might I'mafraid might whittle down its

(11:17):
power.
I don't know if that's just apresumption of mine.
Like you said, netflix doesreally well in this category,
but the idea that this couldhave gone to maybe a more high
profile theatrical distributionroute I think would have been
even better.

Jules (11:31):
Right, right, no, I agree with you.
Maybe I'm a little bit lessskeptical because of you know
how, again, how well Netflixtends to do in that category.
You're right.
Daughters, which also premieredat Sundance, was very
surprisingly left off the listlast year.
Um, I definitely see theparallel between this film and

(11:52):
the short film incident whichgot nominated last year.
As you were saying, the the waythe film is uh, structured, you
know, almost entirely out ofbody cam footage and, um, uh,
surveillance footage.
Um, there was a lot ofparallels with that short film
and it it creates quite astriking experience, really
tense.
Yeah very tense.

Joseph (12:12):
And when it finally hits , it's absolutely you know like
devastating yeah yeah, 100%.

Jules (12:19):
Another film that did really well at Sundance here in
this category was Seeds, whichis exploring, you know, black
generational farmers in theSouth.
There was a lot of praise forthat documentary.
Unfortunately we did not get achance to see it, but I do
wholly expect that film toappear on the shortlist for

(12:40):
documentary and to be a verystrong contender, as you were
saying, to make the final five.

Joseph (12:44):
Absolutely.
I believe this is britney shinefeature documentary debut.
Don't hold me to that, but Ibelieve it is.
It shot in sort of strikingblack and white talking about
these black farmers in theunited states.
It was a very popular film.
A lot of great mentions for it.
I've I've been told that it's.

(13:04):
It looks absolutely beautiful.
Yeah, black and white Right, andI would totally expect this to
be, as you said, shortlisted,possibly in the top five at the
end.
This was a film that wassupported by the Sundance
Institute and you know wehaven't said anything about this
yet, but it was the winner ofthe grand jury prize and that is
an excellent position to be in.

(13:27):
I think the door is still openas to who is going to pick this
up and I think multiple peoplewould want to pick it up, so
that may give it a little bit ofan edge, possibly depending on
who commits to it, but I thinkwhoever commits to it, the film,
I think, is ready to be one ofthe standout documentaries of
the year.

Jules (13:46):
Right and 100.
It, the film I think is readyto be one of the standout
documentaries of the year.
Right and 100, I agree, andalong the lines of selena los
dinos, uh, documentaries thatmaybe were a little bit more
populist and crowd pleasers.
Yeah, we have the marley matlindocumentary not alone anymore.
I know that quite a few peopleuh liked that documentary and
and Andre is an Idiot wasactually a winner.

(14:06):
It was, I think, the audienceaward winner for this section,
and so those two I expect to befilms that get picked up
eventually.

Joseph (14:16):
Actually, andre is an Idiot is already being backed, I
believe by A24.

Jules (14:20):
Oh, okay, well, that makes sense.

Joseph (14:21):
Even for that reason alone, I would say it makes it
all the much more likely that itis going to land in those 15
and I would watch it be one ofthe most one.
As you said, one of the biggestcrowd pleasers yeah, the
documentary field this year,picking up a bunch of regional
critic mentions all the way topossibly an oscar nomination.
This isn't necessarily acategory where 824 does yeah

(14:44):
extremely well, but you knowthey're going to get.
They're going to get a footholdon this race eventually yeah and
this has a lot of fans yeah alot of fans and it's a kind of a
unique topic, a very uniquetopic, kind of an interesting
topic, I think.
Um, so I would not sleep onthis yeah this is another one
where I feel very confident thisis going to be a top 15 lister

(15:05):
yeah, and centered around andre.

Jules (15:07):
Um, he's uh, has a a diagnosis.
It's a more, it's a terminalterminal, and so he's capturing,
uh, these, uh last moments oflife, and his experiences and
his experience of hisrelationships, and so I think
it's that kind of sweet spotwhere it's sentimental enough,

(15:28):
where people are reallyresponding audiences, but it's
also, I think, centered aroundthis really charming and sort of
irresistible character at itscenter.

Joseph (15:42):
This is absolutely going to be one of those films that I
believe it's the ida awardsthat has a an award for most
memorable character in adocumentary.
I believe it's theinternational documentary
association that does list thataward.
Andre is going to be there forsure andre will be there right
so it's going to be a verycompetitive film.
I wonder if it could find anaudience in theaters.

(16:04):
I think it just might.
Like I said, I think there wasa lot of fans for it.
I think that's one reason that.

Jules (16:09):
A24 picked it up and a documentary that was in this
section that you and I got tosee and we loved was Predators,
which is this deep dive into howto catch a predator, the series
and the sort of you knowlayered experience that is
watching that show and watchingthese perpetrators.

(16:30):
You know get humiliated, rightum and a lot of, uh, very
interesting psychologicalperspectives on you know uh that
trauma, not just the trauma ofyou know uh the show uh was
capturing, but also the traumaof watching that show and

(16:51):
watching these predators beingcaptured on live time right um.
It's just an absolutelyfascinating documentary.
I absolutely loved it yeah Iloved this movie and I think it
was my favorite film that I sawat Sundance.
I thought it was spectacular,yeah, uh, really thought
provoking, just absolutelyfascinating.
So up my alley so up your alleyit was so it was such a a

(17:15):
wonderful film.
Um, I don't know that this kindof film kind of really ends up
permeating the documentarycategory that much, um, but I
would love to see it.
Yeah kind of really ends uppermeating the documentary
category that much.

Joseph (17:29):
But I would love to see it kind of, you know, be able to
find its way, its foot in there.
I'm with you.
I think this was the best filmthat I saw at Sundance.
It's just so complexly renderedand rendered with so much
authenticity, and I was justreally surprised by how much
command the director, david Alls, had on the film.
Really really interesting,thought-provoking stuff.

(17:52):
I don't think that this film isgoing to get as large an
audience, unfortunately.
I think it probably won't belisted in that 15.
It didn't win any prizes,unfortunately, from Sundance,
that 15.
It didn't win any prizes,unfortunately, from Sundance.
It hasn't been picked up yet,but I we were talking about it.
This feels like the kind ofthing that would feel right at
home with Strand releasing orKino Lorber.

(18:13):
They're gonna find success withthis film.
I think that's the home forthis kind of film.
Again, they're not necessarilyoutlets that figure largely
every single year in thedocumentary race.
That's why, as excellent as itis, that's why I hesitate, like
you to sort of name it afrontrunner here Right.

(18:34):
So still a wonderful film.
Yes and I mean Speak, I thinkalso heard really good things
about right and I think it hassort of this youthful aspect to
it and this youthful perspectiveto it.
I think that's going to beunique to the film.
It has not been picked up yet,but I would not be surprised to
see netflix include this in itsarsenal.

(18:55):
Right, I could see it becomingvery popular on netflix
streaming and possibly figuringinto one of those 15 spots as
well right, and are there anyother documentaries that you I
think we mentioned, the onesthat kind of pulled the most
attention?

Jules (19:10):
I don't know if there are other documentaries you want to
mention specifically from thissection.

Joseph (19:13):
I think from this section.
That's it.
I would remind listeners thatyou're dealing with the grand
jury prize winner being Seedsand the special jury prize
winner being the directing forthe perfect neighbor, which is
will be on netflix, and theaudience award went to andre's
an idiot, which will be releasedby a24 later this year, I

(19:34):
believe correct, and so we uhcontinue on our um exploration
of the documentaries in thisfestival.

Jules (19:43):
let's go to the World Cinema Documentary Competition
and see what titles we wereseeing or feeling the most buzz
from the festival.
Off the top of my head, primeMinister, about the New Zealand
Prime Minister, jacinda Ardern,was something that quite a few
people I thought were talkingabout.

(20:04):
I think that was a documentaryI thought were talking about.
I think that, you know, was adocumentary.
I think it might have won theaudience award.

Joseph (20:09):
I think it did win the audience award and so, like I,
said.

Jules (20:11):
I think that's the kind of documentary that you know a
wide group of people respond to.

Joseph (20:17):
Yeah, it might find an audience.
Yeah, it might find an audience.

Jules (20:20):
I don't believe it has been picked up yet but if it is
picked up, audience award winnercould definitely find an
audience.
Um, I heard quite a few peopletalk about mr nobody against
putin uh, which has a you know abig timeliness uh with uh
concerning the us ukrainianrelationship, which is going in
a you know very troublingdirection as the us russian

(20:42):
relationship as well.

Joseph (20:43):
Absolutely, I think that this was another standout from
the festival, a standout fromthe world section.
I definitely think this titlewill be among the 15 and I would
not be surprised to see it landamong the five.

Jules (20:57):
I don't think interestingly enough, we were
talking about it when we werepredicting our final oscar
predictions.
You know, the last three yearshave had a documentary that is,
you know, at least somewhatdealing with this conflict
exactly you know, last yearthere was a surprise of
porcelain war making it in whichwon the grand jury prize, which
won the grand jury, yeah um.
So you know that's quiteinteresting, and so you know

(21:19):
this.
This topic is something thatthis documentary branch is
certainly Wants to highlight.

Joseph (21:26):
Absolutely, and I think this fits right in there,
possibly even more pressing nowthan it's been before with this
new administration.
But the film is very unique.
You sort of have this insideraccess by this teacher who's
able to sort of document howRussia is presenting the
invasion on Ukraine to youngstudents, and I think even the

(21:48):
director or he's accredited as aco-director.
This teacher even stayed on thejob to sort of gain access to
this footage I've heard.
It's very fascinating.
I cannot wait to watch it.
I think that this will bepicked up by someone, possibly
like Magnolia, and it will havea lot of success.
I think we will be hearing thistitle, mr nobody against putin,

(22:09):
come up again a lot as the yearstarts winding down.
I think this would be a greatmoment to segue, however, into
another film that's on thissection right, which is 2000
meters to, and andreerivka right, which is the follow-up of miss
taslov chernov, who, uh, whosedocumentary 20 days in maripool

(22:32):
won best documentary in 2023.

Jules (22:35):
Um, and again, I felt this film had a very good
reception and I do expect thisfilm again to be in that, you
know, shortlisted 15 right.
Absolutely, I absolutely agreethat it's.

Joseph (22:42):
It's going to be in that short list of 15.
Right absolutely, I absolutelyagree that it's going to be
there.
I think it's going to be there.
It could very well get one ofthose spots.
He is a previous winner.
This documentary was met with alot of acclaim as well.
A lot of people thought it wasquite compelling, sort of, I
believe, sort of a journey tothe front line yes.
Right, and so it might beinteresting to see if there's

(23:06):
room for both right.
Right 2,000 meters and Mr Nobodyversus Putin.
And that's why I bring it up,that's why I said it was a good
moment to mention it, becausethis conflict, again, it's not
getting smaller, it's onlygetting bigger, it's only
getting more troubling.
And case in point there wasenough room and spotlight,
excuse me.
There was enough room andsunlight, excuse me, there was
enough room in Sundance tospotlight them both.

(23:27):
And there was enoughappreciation for both.
I expect both to make the top15 and at least one to crack the
five.

Jules (23:34):
Right, the grand jury prize was cutting through rocks,
uh, about the first electedcouncilwoman of an Iranian
village, um, who's trying tobreak patriarchal uh traditions,
um, by trying to teach teenagegirls how to uh ride motorcycles

(23:55):
, and that's in an effort to umprevent these young girls from
entering into these childmarriages, right, um, and so I
think that that's a verycompelling premise.

Joseph (24:09):
Very timely as well.

Jules (24:10):
Very timely and we unfortunately did not get a
chance to see it, but we heardreally good things about it and
that just feels like a filmthat's also destined to make
this final crop of documentariesfor Oscar voters at the end of
the year.

Joseph (24:22):
Right, I completely agree.
This should be a a top 15 film,especially with that grand jury
prize.
You know it's important tomention that sundance, the oscar
documentary branch, doesn'ttend to favor one section over
the other.
They are going to shortlistfilms from both yeah almost in
equal measure.
So winning the grand jury prizeyear is great.
The topic is really timely.

(24:43):
I think that this would be a nobrainer to include at the at
the year's end.

Jules (24:49):
Right, and then as far as the films that in this category
that I thought made the biggestimpact I don't know if there's
another film you wanted tomention in particular- I heard
good things about how to build alibrary.

Joseph (25:02):
Again, I didn't get a chance to see it.

Jules (25:04):
And I know that there's another film.
There's actually another filmthat has a similar topic.
That's in the premiere section.

Joseph (25:09):
Yes, that I've heard even more about.
But the Dating Game is kind ofinteresting because it does have
an Oscar-winning producer who'spart of the production team,
and I believe she was part ofthe production team for the Edge
of Democracy and Virunga andthe White Helmets.
She's won an Oscar, part ofthis team, so I don't think you
can count it out.
I believe it's sort of lookingat these eligible bachelors from

(25:34):
China who are signing on tothis sort of dating service.
But of course I think it thenstarts talking about bigger
issues in China, right?
But of course I think it thenstarts talking about bigger
issues in China, right?
Possibly the role ofmasculinity in China, possibly
the certain types of powerdynamics within couples in China
.
I can imagine it's going to bevery interesting.

Jules (25:56):
No one has picked it up yet, but I do think it's of note
that it does have an Oscarwinning producer on its team
Right, a hundred percent, and Ithink those were the biggest
titles to come out of thissection, the ones that I think
had the most buzz, right and so,uh, now we should move on to,
uh, the premiere section right,they do list documentaries

(26:18):
within the premier section, sothere's a number of
documentaries here right, uh you, you had Come See Me in the
Good Light, which was anaudience favorite and it was the
winner of the Festival FavoriteAward, and about two poets, one
of them, andrea Gibson, who hasa terminal cancer diagnosis and
their partner Megan Fowley.

(26:40):
That was a film that quite a fewpeople responded to yes.
And that director has madeanother popular film a couple
years ago.

Joseph (26:49):
That's right.
Good Night, oppie Ryan White, Ibelieve, is his name.

Jules (26:51):
Which missed out on a documentary nomination but had a
lot of mentions.
Right it was close.

Joseph (26:56):
Yeah, and we saw that last year right with a bunch of
the films that were shortlistedfor the Oscar documentary.
Remember Ibelin the remarkablelife of eibelin, that filmmaker
was coming off the painter andthe thief, and so, uh, the
filmmaker of union was comingoff of crime and punishment.
So I would not be surprised tosee ryan white on the list again

(27:16):
.

Speaker 3 (27:16):
This and this time possibly make it into the final
five I hear.

Joseph (27:19):
It's a very emotional experience and also very
rewarding for the audience, forthe subject matter.

Jules (27:25):
They found it very rewarding right um middletown I
heard a little bit about fromthe filmmaker of boy state and
girl state the team.
Yeah, right, um, about a groupof teenagers, I think, in new
york, and they're doing astudent film and then somehow
they uncover a toxic wasteconspiracy, right?

Joseph (27:42):
so that seems, uh, that caught a few people's attention
yeah, it's had its fans, and Iwill say also that I think this
is one of the final productionsfrom participant films, so
that's kind of interesting too,I thought right, um, move your
body.

Jules (27:57):
The birth of house.
The birth of house music.
Um, I heard a few peopletalking about that.
Uh, it's Never Over by Jeff.
It's Never Over.

Joseph (28:04):
Jeff Buckley, obviously centered around Jeff Buckley,
the late Jeff Buckley, right andyou got Amy Berg on that one
who's very popular, and you haveElegance Braden, I believe, who
was just coming off hisnarrative debut, the Inspection,
I believe, in 2022.
He's the filmmaker behind Moveyour Body.
Both of those film had theirfans right, uh, deaf presidents

(28:28):
now.

Jules (28:29):
Um, I believe in the uh deaf university, um, the world's
only deaf university in the1980s.
Um, they're trying to find, Ithink, a new president right for
for that university.
Um, I think that also kind ofwas a documentary that qualified
as a little bit of a crowdpleaser.

Joseph (28:46):
I think, yeah, I think it did have a lot of fans from
the people who saw it inSundance I spoke to a few people
who really liked it and DavisGuggenheim also behind that
documentary.
You're going to recognize himfrom a film like An Inconvenient
Truth, which was nominated Ibelieve he won for that and
something like Waiting forSuperman.
So he comes to Sundance all thetime and he's been at the

(29:08):
Oscars.
Would not be surprised to seethis shortlisted either among
the 15.
Right, and let's see.
I mean well, you also had FolkTales from Heidi Ewing who's
coming off her narrative debut Ibelieve I'll carry you with me.
Sort of a hybrid documentarynarrative debut I believe I'll
carry with me sort of a hybriddocumentary narrative debut,
which is a great movie.
Wonderful film from the pandemic2020.

(29:29):
But she's been recognizedbefore for her work on Jesus
Camp, I believe, and they werefans for this film.
Again, a youthful perspective,right.
That might be something thathelps it stick out.
And David France is back.
That might be something thathelps it stick out.
And David France is back.
David France directing FreeLeonard Peltier, which, coming
off of a year where werecognized you know sort of the

(29:52):
incarceration system andsomething like I'm Ready Warden,
got nominated for shortdocumentary film.
That may be a timely enoughtopic, right?
So I would not be surprised tosee David France show up with
this documentary at the end ofthe year and speaking of, uh
that topic, you know, uh, theprison system.

Jules (30:10):
you know there's another film in this category called the
alabama solution from thefilmmaker behind um, capturing
the freedmen, which is anincredible film, um, the alabama
solution, right, and quite afew people were talking about
that film.
It was very praised, um praisedabout a group of incarcerated
men exposing a cover-up in anAlabama prison.
I heard it's a tough watch, butI heard it's a very compelling

(30:34):
piece, right, I fully expectthat film as well to make an
impact.

Joseph (30:38):
Yeah, it could make an impact.
Questlove is back with hisdocumentary on Sly.
Stone, and I believe that'salready on streaming.
It had a very positivereception, very warm reception.
Of course, Questlove comingfrom his Oscar-winning Summer of
Soul, which premiered atSundance as well.
I think also Sally sort ofsticks out in this section.

(31:00):
Right, that's coming fromNational Geographic, which is
sort of always a favorite here.
It doesn't always make the five, but I think you can count on
them to make the top 15.
right um, that's coming fromnational geographic, which is
sort of always a favorite hereyeah, doesn't always make the
five, but I think you can counton them to make the top 15.
And that's going to be on theastronaut sally ride and her
relationship with tamilshaughnessy.
Um, this had a lot of fans aswell and actually I think this
is screening now at south bysouthwest as well yeah so I

(31:23):
think it's going to play a fewfestivals before finally coming
out on Nat Geo.
But I think being in that Geopresentation it's going to make
it very competitive as well.

Jules (31:31):
Right, I also heard a few people talking about the
Stringer, which is sort of aninvestigation into one of the
most, or possibly the mosticonic photograph from the
Vietnam War and sort of exposinga lot of unseen, unheard of
layers to that photograph.
That got a good reception fromthe festival.

(31:54):
And, speaking of timely matters, the Librarians is a film.
I think Sarah Jessica Parker isa producer on that film.
Oh, really, yeah, I think so,and so that film tackling sort
of the crisis that's happeningaround this country and
libraries because of thisadministration and the
right-wing politics sort ofsurrounding our country at this

(32:15):
moment.

Joseph (32:16):
It's a very timely topic and I've definitely heard a lot
of people talking about it andI definitely expect this film to
make that shortlisted 15 15 aswell I mean, it really is a very
complete list of films here tosort of represent so many
different topics in documentaryfilmmaking timely pieces,
biographical pieces, interestingangles, interesting characters

(32:39):
like andre.
I think the issue here is goingto be sort of whittling down
all these documentaries withtremendous potential to land in
the 15 and possibly the five.
Whittling it down to just 15, Ithink, is the challenge.
I will say that Sundance hasbeen on a tear lately.
I think you know something likelast year.

(32:59):
They had four documentaries.
You know eventually go and benominated for best documentary.
That included sugar cane,porcelain war, black box diaries
was on the world section, aswas soundtrack to kudeta.
So that's four eventualnominees.
They had even more films thatwere shortlisted and then, you
know, in a year like 2022, theyalso had a, I think, four of the

(33:24):
eventual nominees and thatincluded fire of love, navalli,
which was the eventual winner.
All that breathes, a house madeof splinters.
And in 29, I think in 2019,they also had four.
They had, I believe, americanfactory, the edge of democracy.
Honey land was very popularthere.
Yeah, um in, I'm sorry, thatwas 2019.

(33:45):
And in 2020 they had a summerof soul.
They had flee, which gotmultiple nominations across
various categories and they hadwriting with fire, I think most
recently.
Their lowest year is 2023 whenthey got two documentaries in in
the final five.
Again, more were shortlisted,but those were 20 Days in

(34:06):
Maripool, which ended up winningagain, it won the Audience
Award.
I believe that year and theEternal Memory which we had seen
there as well and that won theGrand Jury Prize in the World
section.
So I do expect somewherebetween at least two, possibly
as many as four, nominees tocome out of here, and I do.
I will say that a film thatwins the grand jury prize is in

(34:29):
really really really strongposition.
You look at a film.
As I said, the Eternal Memorywon this Writing with Fire, I
believe, won this and so youhave to really believe that a
film like Cutting Through Rocks,which won the grand jury prize
on the world section, is in areally strong position, as is
the winner of the Grand JuryPrize on the US section, seeds.

(34:52):
So I think we have a bunch ofreally competitive films here
and I mean, I don't know if youagree with me, but my gut says
Seeds, the Perfect Neighbor.
Cutting Through Rocks.
Yeah.
Those films are really at thetop yeah, yeah.
Then followed closely bysomething like Andre's an Idiot.
I think Sally is going to havea very good shot.

Jules (35:11):
Yeah Right, I agree 100%.
Those would be my top picks aswell.

Joseph (35:17):
The Librarians also might be the Librarians.

Jules (35:18):
yes, One to watch out for .

Joseph (35:20):
Yeah, and of course she was recently nominated.

Jules (35:23):
Yes, yes, she was recently nominated for short
film for Death by Numbers.

Joseph (35:27):
Yes, so she's coming fresh off a nomination she may
actually repeat.

Jules (35:31):
Yeah, or it may affect also, or maybe possibly.
And now we're going to segueinto the narrative features that
were included in Sundance thisyear.

Joseph (35:41):
Right, and just for a little bit of background,
there's been a lot of criticismsort of levied at Sundance this
year.
With their selection of films.
There are a lot of outlets thatare dismissing this year as a
less competitive year in termsof films that premiered and have
, you know, very rich futures,not just in terms of how well

(36:04):
they do with critics and howwell they do with audiences, but
certainly how well they do withOscar voters.
I want to say on the recordthat I'm completely against that
opinion.
I think it was a very stronglineup.
I think you had a lot of reallystandout films and I think you
have a handful of films herethat absolutely have a very
strong future for the Oscars,even though it's several months

(36:25):
down the line.
I think they're very strongprojects with very strong
prospects.
And I think also, some peopleare being too quick to dismiss
the idea that Sundance isn'twhat it's used to be, which is
again a saying that I absolutelyhate, because Sundance is so
necessary to this industry andcertainly to the American side
of this industry.
It's a place where filmmakersgo to sort of announce

(36:48):
themselves, and that's atradition that is not only
necessary but that should be, Ithink, absolutely championed and
encouraged, and, if anything, Ithink Sundance could do a
better job of retaining some ofthose filmmakers to have them
premiere more work here onanother section.

(37:09):
But I do think it was a stronglineup and the reality is that
even if you look at last year,this is where A Real Pain sort
of set its first flag right intowhat was eventually two
nominations and a win forsupporting actor.
Eventually two nominations anda win for supporting actor and
even something like a differentman premiered here which won a
golden globe for Sebastian Stanwould have been nominated for

(37:30):
Sebastian Stan, I firmly believe, had he not had the apprentice
and certainly helped SebastianStan get nominated for the
apprentice right and wasnominated for best makeup at the
Oscars, and so we're sort of ina little bit of a record here
where there's at least going tobe one Sundance movie that is

(37:50):
going to cross over and getAbove the line.
Above the line nominations yeah,usually more than one.
Again, if you look at a realpain, above the line supporting
actor original screenplay adifferent man in makeup.
Before that you have somethinglike past lives, right, which
again picture.
And original screenplay adifferent man in makeup.
Before that, you have somethinglike past lives, right, which
again picture yeah an originalscreenplay was very competitive

(38:11):
for actress um, you have coda,of course, which was the
eventual winner, right, right,um, in something like 2022, you
had living right that finallygot bill nye nye for best actor,
nye for best screenplay, sothere is at least going to be
one.
I don't know that we're in thedays where a film like get out
and call me by your name andmanchester by the sea sort of

(38:33):
premiere here and sort of grabthe industry attention.
I think, unfortunately, there'sjust a lot of power being put
right now in con and a lot offilms are trying to wait till
con to premiere yeah, we talkedabout that in our final episode
of season one, which is that youknow, after onora again, sean
baker uh, you know, a staple ofsunnets at some point right sort

(38:57):
of starts premiering films incon.
He doesn't really come backvery often.
I think we're at this moment inthe industry and for oscar
voters where there's just a lotof power in con, certainly for
international voters I thinkit's too much power, but I
certainly expect a couple offilms, two or three films, to

(39:18):
translate to oscar voters.
And even if you look atsomething like last year right,
where we had a real pain and adifferent man on the narrative
side, there were a lot of titlesthat I thought were competitive
.
So after Sundance everyone hadthe Outrun pegged as a surefire
actress nominee for SaoirseRonan and possibly a competitive

(39:39):
title for adapted screenplay.
And I think something that'simportant to talk about here,
because people have been sort oflevying this criticism for the
quality of films, sort ofexcusing why a lot of them
haven't been picked up yet.
I think you look at the outrunand that's a film that should

(40:00):
have been nominated for moreoscars, would have been
nominated for more Oscars.
I just think that the rightperson didn't buy it and they
didn't push it.
Well, this is a studio ordistributor that had other
titles like I'm still here, andso I think that the reason why
you're seeing a lot of thesetitles not picked up yet it's

(40:21):
just because the market is sovolatile right now.
Not picked up yet.
It's just because the market isso volatile right now and I've
always been someone whochampions that what needs to
occur is we need to have moresmall distributors you know
we're in a time where, becauseyou have, the studio is
basically reluctant todistribute anything with them

(40:42):
with a brain, um riskor off with a heart, anything
that's risky or anything that's,dare I say, adult or mature or
not, a piece of spectacle thatyou need to have more boutique
distributors.
You need to have more A24s,more Neons, more Janus films,

(41:04):
and I think that's where thefuture is is places like
Metrograph getting bigger,places like Magnolia getting
bigger, and I think it'snecessary and I think that's why
the market is slow right now isbecause then what happens is
you have Sony Classics pick upall these films.
They don't necessarily knowwhat to do with all of them,

(41:25):
they don't market them well, andsome of these titles, I think
from last year, could have beenmore competitive.
Something like my Old Ass,which got an Iron Fret Writers
Guild Award, could have beenmore competitive in that
category had it not been pickedup by Amazon, which doesn't
really know what it's doing interms of campaigning for
accolades and awards and aneventual Oscar nomination.
I think the same could be saidabout something like Will and

(41:49):
Harper might have had betterprospects had it not been a.
Netflix film, and so I thinkthat's what has to happen is
more boutique studios have topop up.
The ones that already existhave to get stronger, and I
think that it's bad to have Neonbuy a bunch of films that they
then do not know how to release,nor do they care to release

(42:11):
really well, because they'rejust waiting for con.
I would say the same thingabout A24.
I'd say the same thing aboutSony Classics.
It would be better for allthese films and for the industry
in general to have moreboutique distributors who are
going to give each of thesefilms sort of the time and
attention they require, becauseI honestly do believe so many of

(42:32):
them are locked and loaded,ready to compete for an Oscar,
ready to compete for voters'attentions and ready to capture
an audience.
I really do think that.
So I don't think that this isgoing to be, for example, a year
like 2018, where you hadessentially no Sundance titles,
walk out with a nomination, butI think what happened there was

(42:54):
that the titles that wereeligible were too niche.
I mean, you're talking aboutone of the most championed films
that year yeah famously washereditary right with tony
collette.
You know almost you know,getting the lion's share of all
the actress regional criticsawards.
But it's going to be such adifficult sell as a first film,

(43:14):
even with a previous nomineelike tony collette.
Um, you talk about bo burnham?
Who made a classic yeah witheighth grade yeah he wasn't able
to get in 824, I think had atough year that year.
Um, you look at someone likeharry mulligan for wildlife, who
hadn't been nominated.
I think a second time yet yeah,yeah um, who would be nominated
two years after that, I believe,and so I almost feel like it

(43:37):
was too spread out and there wasno film that was, I think,
popular enough to get multiplenominations, because if you look
at that, that's a trend here.
If you look at past lives, it'stwo, a real pain, it's two
living, it's two, and they'regreat when it comes to acting
and screenplay.
Sometimes some text will get in, as you saw, a different man,

(43:57):
um, but I I definitely thinkthat what happened in 2018 is
not going to play out this year,because I think that there are
films with enough potential inmultiple categories.

Jules (44:09):
I think that's really well said and I completely agree
with you on all those points.
Very well said.
I will say that, let's see,looking at the US dramatic
competition section section,there are a few films that stand
out here.
Um, let's see the biggest onebeing uh sorry baby, which was,
uh, I think, captured the uhmost of the attention from this

(44:32):
section and I would say from thecaptured among the films that
captured the most attention ofthe festival period.
Yeah, um, from eva victor.
It's her directorial debut.
She also wrote it.
The film won the screenwritingaward, which I believe is the
same award that I believe.
A real pain one, yep, same one,right, and we did get the

(44:54):
chance to see this film.
I did think it was among thestronger films I saw at the
festival.
I thought that had a lot ofstrengths.
It's certainly a veryparticular, singular voice that
we're hearing from for the firsttime, from Emma Victor.
I think you can really feelthat in the piece.
A lot of people are alreadycomparing her to someone like

(45:14):
Greta Gerwig or Phobe right fromyeah, from fleabag yeah um, you
know she has the kind of voicethat sort of strikes that middle
ground between you know, humorand also some, you know, really
sort of distinct melancholy, um,and the film as a whole, I
think, has this undercurrent ofmelancholy that I find that I

(45:37):
interesting, but it's also feelslike a very low key film.
You know, um, I don't knowabout you, uh, but you know it's
the world, it's depicting thesetting.
You know it feels very low key,more so than I would say a film
like, let's say, uh, gretaGerwig's directorial debut, uh,
bird.
The filmmaking style remindedme a lot of one of my favorite

(46:02):
filmmakers, which is Dan Salat.
In a way, you know, there'ssomething kind of very bare
about the piece, you know, verystripped back, sort of like
micro budget.
You know know, very sort ofsimple, straightforward micro
budget, sort of um kind ofstorytelling, um and uh.

(46:24):
I thought that was interesting.
Again, I love dan sad's filmsand I see that there was a lot
of promising things about thisdebut um, and I can see why
people were responding soemphatically to it as well.
It's a singular voice from AvaVictor and just broadly, she's

(46:47):
also acting in the film and hercharacter is undergoing a
traumatic experience and thefallout of that traumatic
experience, and I think it alsohas.
It's a personal story for thisfilmmaker as well, and I think
you can feel that in the piecetoo.
Um, that's, that's one of itsstrengths.
In my opinion.

Joseph (47:04):
No, I I completely agree .
I echo everything you've said.
I I do think that this is thekind of film where if you were
to take away ava victor's name,or if ava victor's name was more
known already within theindustry, like greta gerwig, I
think that this film would belocked and loaded.
I think this is an easy pickupfor anyone.

(47:26):
I think it's an easy campaignnot an easy campaign, but it
should be a formidable campaign.
It's, I think, a very poignantmovie.
I definitely think she is goingto possibly get the large share
of you know any accolade thathas to do with breakout
filmmaker or first film I Iworry sometimes about where

(47:48):
we're at as an industry becauseI want her to have the
opportunity to make more films.
I'm worried that she's going tobe either co-opted into writing
something for a studio which isimpersonal and would be, I think
a step back I think, for us asaudience members who want to see
more films, from her point ofview and sometimes I worry that

(48:10):
they're going to put her into atv show, like they did with lena
dunham, and I think that that,you know, sometimes isn't the
best thing that could happen toa filmmaker a filmmaker who is
really showing a distinctsingular voice.
I think girls was was wonderful, but I I do think that lena
dunham belongs on the big screenright um, so I do worry about

(48:33):
that, but I do think that thefilm has the legs to get
nominated for originalscreenplay.
I would not be surprised if itturns into something bigger
either.
Um, like I said, if you were totake the exact same film and
when you were to put gretagilwig starring in it, and this
being greta gilwig's debutfeature, I think the prospects

(48:56):
would be much brighter.
Only because greater gilwig ismore known.
Um, this is coming from pastelright, which gave us after sun
right um, and they found successthere, getting paul meskel
nominated.
Of course.
They gave us moonlight.
Um.
A24 picked it up really quickand they have a relationship
with pastel, so that's notsurprising.

(49:17):
Big beach is also in here andthey've made films that have
found audiences and have foundsome um love from oscar voters
and and end of year accoladesand things like that.
So I don't think that's theproblem.
I think sort of her anonymitywould be the most difficult
hurdle, but if you watch thefilm, I think you're going to be
touched by it.
Um, and as the year sort ofprogresses and it becomes clear

(49:42):
as as always happens, that youthink you're gonna have
quote-unquote better, strongermore appealing movies than what
you see at first rightthat most of the time does not
happen and you can talk to codaabout that.
You know most of the thesemovies that stand out here will
continue standing out and willactually only get better, I

(50:04):
think, in your memory.
You know, as the yearprogresses and they have
opportunities to sort of impress.
So you never know if somethinglike Sorry Baby is going to find
an audience, a wide audience intheatrical, and that might just
be the last push that it needswide audience in theatrical and
that might just be the last pushthat it needs.
But when I see that screenplaysdo really well coming out of

(50:24):
sundance, I think this is one ofthe biggest screenplays to keep
an eye on, right at the veryleast right.

Jules (50:29):
I would say that I differ from you in certain aspects in
that for me, the field of thefilm is just too, you know, kind
of again stripped back,micro-budget.
That for me, I'm not sure rightnow, even though it was among
the films that I most respondedto at Sundance.
I'm not sure right now that Isee it as a film that I feel

(50:53):
sure is going to break throughin such a big way.
There's a polish to a real painthat I don't think is in this
film big way.
There's a polish to a real painthat I don't think is in this
film just yet.
And for some reason, when Ithink about this film and I
think about A24 buying this film, I certainly don't think of
something like Sunday, like,excuse me, after Sun, which was

(51:14):
a masterpiece in my opinion.
I see, honestly, I feel moresomething like last black man in
san francisco or from sanfrancisco, um, in this really,
uh, beautiful, lovely film.
It came out in 2019, that wasbought by a24, but it had a very
like, you know, low level kindof release part.

(51:36):
You know, very select theaters,mostly um on demand, um, at
least during the 2019 landscape,and you know it was a very
worthwhile film.
It had a lot of praise fromcritics, but it was just
operating on a much lowerregister.
Um, again, I think that there'sa little bit more polish in
that film too, at least visually.
It was a, it was was a granderfilm.

(51:57):
The cinematography in thatmovie, for example, last Black
man from San Francisco Um, andyou know, I just feel like again
, this film is operating on amuch lower register where I'm
not a hundred percent sure orconfident that it's going to
break in, even with an A24acquisition and pastel behind it
.
I don't know.
That's sort of what I'm feelingright now.

(52:17):
Again, it's carried by thestrength of this, the promising
potential of this filmmaker.
I'm just not 100% sold yet thatit's a surefire contender for
something like screenplay thefilms that have sort of these
shortcomings.

Joseph (52:31):
They have these weak points, these Achilles heels.
Every film has it, even the filmthat eventually wins, whether
it's Nora or Conclave or Coda,power of the Dog, whatever.
Every film has its weaknessesand it has its strengths.
It always comes down, in myopinion, to the campaign.

(52:53):
So there's really no very bigreason for the Last Black man in
San Francisco to get zeronominations and Minari to walk
away with five nominations,other than the campaign just was
not there.
And so, in my opinion, thebiggest hurdle that Sorry Baby
is going to have is that it is a24.
And, as we know, they're goingto have a stacked slate of

(53:17):
critically acclaimed films,films that are going to play in
more popular, as I said, morepowerful festivals, and sundance
like con right now, and that isgoing to be the difference
maker.
I don't think a24, as we sawlast year, is going to be good
at getting more than two orthree films nominated throughout
all of the academy awards rightand as soon as the brutalist
shows up, then sing sing isgoing to have a problem being

(53:38):
nominated for very many right,right and and sort of.
You know sing sing gets.
You know its trial is thetheatrical market.
It sort of flopped and thatleft an opening, and they
weren't going to sit and waitfor sing sing to make a a
comeback, even though theyscheduled it for a re-release.
No, we both know that thatwasn't going to happen.

(53:58):
They were going to jump on thequickest pony that would take
them to a best picturenomination and they did that
with success.
But so, in my opinion, it's notthat these films sort of are
more low-key and will be lessembraced, it's that they're not
going to be campaigned to thesame degree.
So if you campaign this movielike last black man in san
francisco, as passionately asyou can paint minari, then it

(54:22):
should really have no problemgetting the two nominations of
past lives.
Now I will say something likeafter sun, which again suffered
because everything everywhereall at once is there right,
unlike after sun.
I do think that something likeSorry Baby is a more it's
singular, but stillconventionally told film.

(54:42):
I do think that there is moreof an artistic bend to After Sun
, which maybe was lessaccessible to some voters.
I don't think that's Sorry Baby.
At the same time, I don't wantto position it as you know Sorry
Baby.
I'm sorry for the comparison,but I mean it as a compliment.
I don't want to sort of alignit with tiny furniture either,
right, where it's a verysingular take and it's such a

(55:03):
wonderful voice, but it's notnecessarily the thing that is
going to be most poignant toviewers.
I think this is an incrediblymoving story, right, not just a
great voice, but a story that'sgoing to reach a lot of people
and it's going to be very moving.
And and I know that there aregoing to be people in the
industry you know the higher upsactresses who are going to be

(55:24):
dying to work with her and aregoing to be big fans of this
film in particular.
And so to me it comes down tothe campaign, and already it
sort of starts, you know, in theback only because it's A24.
And so if A24 focuses, I thinkabsolutely you can have the past
live nominations here as well.
Now, if they get distracted andgo elsewhere, then I think

(55:48):
obviously you could see it notget any nominations, sort of
like Bo Burnham did with eighthgrade.
Right.
So can they stay focused?
Will they be committed?

Jules (55:56):
Right, I know, I think those are really good points
that you bring up Again.
I'm just not fully seeing itjust yet, but I think that those
are definitely worthwhilepoints to sort of chew on as to
why something might or might nothappen in this particular case.
A film in this group that didreally well for audiences was

(56:17):
Twinless.
We did see that film.
I quite liked this movie.
It was very enjoyable, verycharming, and I'm a big fan of
this filmmaker.
You know we saw their firstfilm straight up on Netflix, I
believe and we liked again hisvoice and his sort of
perspective and I think he justcontinues that trajectory in

(56:39):
this film and he just, I feel,is gifted at making a very, you
know, entertaining, charmingvehicles, and this is no
exception.
I do think this is the bestperformance I've seen yet from
Dylan O'Brien, who gets a chanceto really flex some muscles

(56:59):
here some acting muscles, I meanand I think he does a wonderful
job here and I just thoroughlyenjoyed this piece and it's no
surprise why most people didenjoy it as well.
And again, this was theaudience award winner.
Yeah.

Joseph (57:14):
Audience award winner.
Special jury prize for Dylan Oo'brien yeah he got great
mentions.
James sweeney, I think, is afilmmaker of our time.
Actually I I don't hate thelena denham comparison again,
and I mean it as a compliment.
You know someone who's reallysort of at the pulse of young,
uh, members of society, youngmoviegoers, and so I don't think

(57:35):
that this is the film that'sgoing to take him to any sort of
, you know, big awards night ora lot of accolades at the end of
the year, but it is anotherstep to getting there, not
unlike someone like Cooper Rafeagain, who was here in the
festival with a TV project, butagain these voices that are
going to form over time.
I just want to stress the ideathat I think it's great that

(57:57):
James Sweeney got another filmand I want to see a third film
of his right I don't want to seehim co-opted into writing
spider-man, whatever right, andI don't want to see him sort of
forced onto onto tv.
Like I said, I just don't knowif the future is there.
I think it was a uh, too muchof a a hiatus for Lena Dunham in

(58:21):
her return to the big screenAll those Years on Girls again
wonderful program but I want tosee her on the big screen.
And again, Phoebe.
I think Phoebe belongs on thebig screen.
She should write and direct forthe big screen.
That's where we need her.

Jules (58:34):
Right Interesting thing about Lena Dunham.
I feel that she's had a littlebit of a resurgence with some of
her recent film projects and Ithink you're right, I think we
lost a little bit of her duringthe girls program, which I think
started off strong but it kindof went downhill.
You know, I think the start ofthat show had its strengths but

(58:55):
you know I was less enthusedwith some of the later seasons.
And then you see her again, youknow becoming less infused with
some of the later seasons andthen you see her again, you know
becoming more of a force as afemale filmmaker and I think
that's really nice to see.

Joseph (59:06):
I mean when you see, yeah, when you see katherine
called birdie, you realize damn.
We missed at least two reallygood lena dunham films between
yeah you know, a tiny furnitureand katherine, called birdie um
because she was making that show.
And again, all power to you,you know, to make whatever sort
of art you want to make, but itis at the expense of the cinema,

(59:27):
right?
It's the cinema's loss.
And so I really think that LenaDunham, and even someone like
Greta Gerwig, who I think isgetting too co-opted into making
these giant blockbusters, youknow, I really I'm sure she's
going to have a wonderful takeon the chronicles of narnia and
it's going to be, you know, astep forward in her career and
her artistic sort of repertoire,and I'm sure it's going to be

(59:50):
wonderful.
But I would really love to seeher, you know, make another
original film, right?
You?

Jules (59:55):
know, yeah, um, another film, uh that won a uh jury
prize, special jury award forensemble cast, was plain clothes
, which we did get the chance tosee, and some people were
talking about this film as well.
It has this 90s vibe.
It's shot on film, you knowit's.
Uh, it certainly gives off.
You know hardcore 90s vibes, um, about an undercover officer

(01:00:17):
who's trying to lure and arrest,you know, gay men for public
indecency.
Um, I like this film.
I thought there were virtues ofthis film, um and uh, it was a
good uh outing for, uh, carmenemmy, his first film, um, and I
particularly enjoyed, uh, thetwo leads, tom Blythe and

(01:00:40):
Russell Russell, who I love,russell Tovey Some people were
talking about that film.
Let's see.

Joseph (01:00:49):
What did you think?
Well, I was a big fan of thefilm as well.
Wonderful first film.
Again, I'm not sure it's goingto have the broad support it
needs to go beyond, you know,beyond mentions for first film,
this is a surefire IndependentSpirit Award nominee, and I say
that with the highest regard andthe highest compliment.
The best televised award.

Jules (01:01:08):
I'm a little surprised.
Very good, very good film.
I am a little surprised, sincewe were talking about Twinless
and this goes back to a pointyou were making earlier very
strongly about distribution andacquisition this film, twinless,
as charming as it is, I'msurprised it doesn't have a US
distributor quite yet.
I believe it's.

Joseph (01:01:27):
Republic Pictures who have picked?

Jules (01:01:28):
up the world?
Are they distributing it?

Joseph (01:01:29):
That's what IMDb says.
They've picked up worldwiderights and so, unfortunately, I
think this is going on streaming.
But I think again, jamesSweeney is for theatrical.
A movie like Twinless is to seewith an audience.
I think that's the next stepfor him and I think it's in the
offing.
I think three or four yearstime he will be in theaters.

Jules (01:01:51):
Right Playing Clothes does not have a distributor, but
I feel like that film couldreally fit in Strand Releasing I
have no idea what strandreleasing is waiting for here.
I really do not um another filmthat we saw was actually a
ended up being quite a big filmbecause it won the dramatic
competition grand jury prize wasatropia um uh, which has a very

(01:02:13):
interesting premise of a sortof you know, faux iraq sort of
uh setting that's being used sothat incoming um uh soldiers can
sort of you know exercise andpractice run before they enter
the you know quote unquote, realthing.
Um, it's, uh, it's a sharpcomedy, it's a sharp satire.

(01:02:34):
Um, I liked the film.
I enjoyed watching it.
I thought there were parts ofit that I thought were quite
interesting andthought-provoking, and also I
laughed quite a bit, and so Iquite enjoyed it.
I think critics were more mixedon it.
It did end up winning thecompetition, the special jury

(01:02:57):
prize.
I think people were surprisedby that, and no one has bought
this film either.

Joseph (01:03:02):
I'm not surprised that no one has bought it.
This is, hands down, thebiggest surprise for me at
Sundance.
I absolutely adored this film.
Alia Shaka and a great ensemblecast you just bust a gut for an
hour plus's.
Wonderful, it's wonderfullymade, it's wonderfully shot,
wonderfully edited.
Uh, again, a great ensemble.

(01:03:23):
I cannot wait to see what elsethis filmmaker makes hayley
gates.
I'm so happy that it won thegrand jury prize.
The fact that it doesn't haveagain a distributor speaks more
to what I will call thecowardice of the market right
now.
Um, and maybe some reluctanceof audience members to go.
And, you know, try to discoversomething new or experience
something new, because thisisn't, you know, a conventional

(01:03:44):
story by any means, nor is itconventionally told by any means
but, it is so worthwhile, soworthwhile, right.
I hope it gets a theatricalrelease.
I'm thinking magnolia.
I don't think magnolia shouldsleep on this.
I think they could have asuccess here.
So that's what my gut saysright if not ifc, I think.
To me this is an absoluteclassic.

Jules (01:04:05):
I cannot wait to see this again um other films that we uh
caught here.
We did see sunfish and otherstories on green lake.
I quite like that.
It was, uh, you know, sort ofan episodic film, but it was
told really anthology, yeah, ananthology film, excuse me, um.
It was told really sincerely,um, and I was quite moved by it
and so I I enjoyed watching thatfilm another great ensemble

(01:04:28):
joanna hogg is part of theproduction team there uh,
wonderfully made, I think alsoone of our favorites.

Joseph (01:04:34):
Another great ensemble, beautifully shot, uh, really
promising filmmaker.
Again, no one has bought this,but again they're just sleeping
on it because maybe they'reafraid of the market.
They're certainly risk averse,but you look at what Magnolia
was able to do with Thelma and Ithink it just speaks to the
possibilities here of when adistributor really can sort of

(01:04:58):
tap into what's going to speakto an audience.
Right.
And I think this coming of agestory was absolutely wonderful.

Jules (01:05:04):
Right.
We also saw Ricky, which youknow personally.
I was a little bit let down by.
It's a very compelling storyabout a 30-year-old man who's
coming out of incarceration andadapting to life.
He's been incarcerated ofincarceration and adapting to
life.
He's been incarcerated since hewas a young man, so there's a
very interesting dynamic that'splaying out, of sort of missing

(01:05:26):
your growing up hood and havingto just adapt to adulthood right
away.
I don't feel like the filmreally delivered on its premise
too much for me, but it was avery interesting story.
I think some people did likethat film.

Joseph (01:05:40):
It actually won, I believe, the Best Director Prize
on the special jury, so that'sgreat.
And, of course, stephen Jamesis a really wonderful actor
really underrated actor does awonderful job here, as does
Cheryl Lee Ralph in a supportingterm.

Jules (01:05:54):
Right, I like to love Brooklyn about this sort of
relationship triangle between aman and two women, but there's
something very breezy about thepiece and very accessible and
also very honest, and so I likethat movie.
Um, I didn't hear quite a lotof.
I didn't hear a lot of talkabout it, though unfortunately.

Joseph (01:06:14):
No, this was another one that I really enjoyed, just
again, wonderful, wonderfulactors.
You have Andre Holland, nicoleBeharie, dawanda Wise a great,
great group of actors.
I thought it was beautifullyshot and wonderfully edited.
I really look forward to whatthis filmmaker makes next.
And I believe there's somethingreally interesting about it,

(01:06:35):
because I believe the screenplaywasn't specifically written for
this group of cast nor thisdirector, but it was written a
while ago and the sort ofartists maybe Andre Holland sort
of came to the script and theysort of made it their own and I
thought it was a very authentic,sincere film and, again, I can

(01:06:55):
really see this finding anaudience.
I can really see this findingan audience.
Another film.

Jules (01:06:59):
we really see this finding an audience.
Another film we caught wasBunny Lover about a
Chinese-American cam girl, and Ibelieve Rachel Sennett is
involved as a producer in that.
She's also in the film for alittle bit.
For a little bit and this camgirl gets involved in this sort
of relationship with this guyover cam, it kind of goes a

(01:07:20):
little bit awry.
You know, I felt this film hadsome potential and uh, I liked
some of the things it was doing,but overall I think it felt a
little bit um, it didn't quitemeet its potential um, and I
think some people were uhcritical of the piece as well I
mean, I did, I, I I liked theactors in it and I and I did

(01:07:40):
think that she did get somesincerity from her, from her
cast, and I do think the piecewas well cast as well.
And moving on to the worldcinema dramatic competition,
there are a few films here thatI think really stood out.
Among them was DJ Amit, whichwas the winner of the special
jury prize and the audienceaward and the audience award,

(01:08:03):
and this film I actually heardquite a lot of people talking
about.
I heard it was a crowd pleaser.
Unfortunately I did not get thechance to see it.
It's about a young 15-year-oldboy in North Macedonia who's in
love with music and is sort ofusing music as a way to, you
know, navigate, you know aconservative community, and I

(01:08:23):
think he also is in throes offinding his first love.
So this film did really welland I expect that it's going to
be a crowd pleaser for manyfestivals to come.
I believe that it's going to bea film that's going to pop up
in many other festivals.
Let's see.
I heard quite a bit about CactusPears, which I think was going
to be a film that's going to popup in many other festivals.
Let's see.
I heard quite a bit aboutCactus Pears, which I think was

(01:08:43):
just announced as a film that'sgoing to be part of the New York
New Directors, new FilmsFestival, which is a festival
that we love A great festival.
It's really a nice thing to beaccepted into that festival.
And this is a queer story, uh,taking place in india.
An indian film between a 30something uh man who falls in

(01:09:08):
love with another indian manfrom the countryside while
grieving his father, I'mgrieving his father, and so I
heard spectacular things aboutthat.
Um, I expect that we'll behearing more about it as well.
Two Women is a Canadian filmabout these two women and sort

(01:09:28):
of their.
I think it's a friendshipbetween them and one of them is
about to engage in a love affairor infidelity and using
something like that to sort ofstart over, start a new chapter,
uh, sort of possibly exercisesome demons.
Um, this is a film that I heardquite a bit about, uh, and it's

(01:09:53):
also a film that I think is uhgoing to be playing at other
festivals as well, and it didwin a special jury award for
writing also.
Um, there's the turkish film,the things you kill, which I
heard a lot.
A lot of people were talkingabout.
I heard people were sayingpeople were saying that it's a
surefire contender for bestforeign film, uh, which is

(01:10:14):
interesting, and I think a manis dealing with the death of his
mother and I think he enlists afarmer to help him enact some
kind of act of vengeance.
Um, so I heard a lot, quite abit about that movie.

Joseph (01:10:27):
The filmmaker, I believe , is actually iranian and I
think his previous film,terrestrial verses uh, was well
noted in 2023, I believe, and Ithink that was on certain regard
, in con, and so he's sortstarting to develop a little bit
more of a filmography with,possibly, international voters.
So I think you're right, itwould not surprise me at all to
see this being selected for oneof.

(01:10:50):
It is co-production or so forsome countries, uh, pick for
international film, right and uh.
Well, there was also the virginof query lake, um, which is, I
believe, an echo production, butit's taking place in argentina
based on, I believe, a couple ofshort stories from this
argentinian writer, and Ibelieve it's a bit of a coming
of age story with these, um,sort of these teenage girls and

(01:11:13):
their relationship with thissort of boy, that they're
infatuated with I think that hadits fans again.
I do think that in the worldcinema section you'll see less
crossover from Sundance in termsof the bigger awards, but
you're going to see a lot ofselections here for
international film.
These films will a large numberof them will end up
representing some kind ofcountry, so I would not be

(01:11:35):
surprised to see Argentinaelecting the Virgin of Quarry
Lake.

Jules (01:11:40):
I think Canada electing two women.

Joseph (01:11:42):
Yes, canada possibly electing two women.
I certainly think my gut saysthat the UK is going to pick
Cactus Pears to represent the UK.
And DJ Ahmet and the Things youKill are interesting, right,
co-productions, co-productions,but also they have that Turkish
background.
I don't know if turkey willactually submit them.

(01:12:02):
I wonder if north macedoniamight select dj ahmet and if the
things you kill might end upbeing selected by something
possibly like from france, maybe, or poland.
I've heard very good thingsabout it.
Yeah, um, maybe even turkey.
I don't know, I have to seewhat turkey selections in the
past have been, but I think itmight be a bit edgy for them.

(01:12:24):
I'm not sure, but I expect alot of the films that you just
mentioned to be selected torepresent a country competing
for international future.

Jules (01:12:34):
Yeah, and we did see a film on this section called Lose
.
That is a Hongong kong chinaproduction.
Um, starring, you know, in asmall part, isabelle huper.
Um, but unfortunately for thethe filmmaker, flora lau.
Um.
I think she's had some kind ofpresence in con um at some point

(01:12:54):
.
I think one of her films was inthe uncertain regards section
in 2013.
But, you know, unfortunately itwas a little bit of a
disappointment for me.
I don't think it fully reachedwhat it was going for.

Joseph (01:13:06):
And if we look at the Midnight section, a couple of
titles that stand out.
I mean, unfortunately thereception for Opus wasn't very
good and it's hitting theatersoon, so we'll see if it's able
to find an audience with ummoviegoers.
Um together actually was astandout here at sundance.
I think the audience ate it up.
We saw it, I think in themidnight premiere.

(01:13:28):
We saw it on the premiere yeah,the actors were there, the
director was there.
Um, they ate it up, I think,and it was actually one of the
titles that sold really quickly,I think neon picked it up, I
think.

Jules (01:13:40):
I think it's sold for the highest price from the festival
.

Joseph (01:13:43):
Thus, far, I think neon sees a lot of you know
possibility in the marketplacefor a film that's sort of you
know a horror but sort of ahorror comedy and also a body
horror.
Post the substance, right, postthe substance.
I think that that was one ofthe headlines, right?
People were talking about howthe substance had made it a
market that was anxious to gettheir hands on horror films and

(01:14:04):
release it to audiences.
I don't know when they plan onreleasing this neon, and I think
, again, neon has that same a 24problem, which is they're going
to focus in on one or twomovies at the expense of all the
other ones.
We'll see if Together benefitsfrom that or suffers from that.
Again, it's a comedy.
Right, it's a horror, but it'salso a comedy.

(01:14:25):
I think this could find anaudience in the US, and I think
that's what Neon is banking on.

Jules (01:14:35):
Right, you know we saw the film.
You know there were some thingsabout it that I quite liked.
I do think it's a film that,again, the audience completely
ate up.
It had a very good yeah uh,reception from the crowd and I
think there's potential for itto do well, as you were saying,
at the box office.
However, you know, I don't know, I don't know if you can
replicate something like thesubstance.

(01:14:57):
I mean, this is very differentfrom the substance, besides the
body horror element aspect to it, um, but I don't know if
they're going to be able toreplicate that same success,
right?
Personally, I don't think ithas as much.
You know, for lack of a betterterm, substance to sort of carry
it over, you know, into thatsort of uh territory, right, but
you know I think it could dowell.

Joseph (01:15:17):
I don't think I'm I'm seeing any awards prospects here
, but I think that if neon playsits cards right, they could
maybe have a success on theirhands here like long legs you
know the campaign they rolledout for that I would certainly
not wait for october orcertainly the end of the year.
I think this is a good summermovie actually you're gonna get
a lot of good, good summer moneyfrom this right and uh.

Jules (01:15:40):
Moving on to the next section, which usually has a
group of interesting films,right um, east of wall, you know
about a, uh, a horse trainer,her ranch.
It's a refuge that's that alsofunctions as a refuge for
wayward teenagers.
Um, I think people quite likethat one.
I think it won the audienceaward at this section and it, um

(01:16:02):
, and it also was bought,interestingly enough, by sony
picture classics, yeah, uh,which is a very good acquisition
team to have.
Um, another title that quite afew people were talking about
you know as being probably themost sundancey title out there,
which is by design, where awoman switches bodies with that
of a chair.

Joseph (01:16:22):
Julia Lewis, julia Lewis .

Jules (01:16:24):
Actually has sort of a mixed response, but I was
actually.
I didn't get a chance to see it, but I was actually very
surprised by the amount ofpeople who actually found
something really kind ofinteresting about the piece.
Yeah, and I heard it's shotreally beautifully and that the
film again has more pros thancons.
Yeah, and I heard it's shotreally beautifully and that the
film again has more you knowpros than cons.

(01:16:45):
Yeah, let's see.
Another film I heard about inthis section was Mad Bills to
Pay, or Destiny Vida Que no SoyMalo, about a Brooklyn man sort
of you know navigating, you knowhis teenage girlfriend and you
know hustling through the Bronxtrying to get by.
So I did feel that this kind ofwas a crowd pleaser for a lot

(01:17:09):
of people.
I think it won an award here.
I heard quite a bit about thatmovie.
I heard a bit about the ZodiacKiller Project, which is sort of
this furthering this furtherexamination of the Zodiac Killer
Project, which is sort of thisfurthering this further
examination of the Zodiac Killer.
I think that film had some fans.
And Reigns Over Babel, I thinkhad some fans too.

Joseph (01:17:30):
Yeah, some people at Sundance really liked that film
as well, I think, from aColombian filmmaker, first film,
I believe.
All those films, I think, havetheir fans and some of them even
have, you know, buyers who arewilling to sort of take the risk
and release them to majoraudiences and I think some will
even find some success there.

(01:17:51):
But I do think that those filmsin general are going to have a
tough time finding an angle intothe awards season, whether it's
end of the year, accolades orcertainly anything sort of
broadcast and eventually Oscars.
I think the title that hasreally stuck in people's minds
and we've spoken about it atlength is Sorry, baby.

(01:18:13):
I think the future is brightthere.
I think the other title thatdoes not get mentioned enough
that we have yet to talk about,which I think is really
important bright there.
I think the other title thatdoes not get mentioned enough
that we have yet to talk about,which I think is really
important, is Omaha.
Right, it does not getmentioned enough as a movie that
has so much potential to crashthat race, right, right.

Jules (01:18:31):
We saw this film.
I loved this movie.
I think it's really well done.
It's very moving, it's verytouching.
It's a feature debut and itstars Joe Marzaro, who's been
having John Marzaro, who's beenhaving an incredible last few
years.
He's always great.
John Marzaro he's alwaysterrific.
Just last year he was inSeptember 5.

(01:18:52):
The year before that.
He was absolutely phenomenal,in my opinion, in past lives.
So it's just a matter of timebefore John Pajaro gets
recognition.
Exactly, a very beautiful actor, very talented actor, and he
gets an incredible part here anddoes a beautiful job.
He really breaks your heart bythe end of it.
The film is taking place duringthe financial crash about a

(01:19:16):
father and his daughter and hisson undergoing this road trip,
and it's going to be revealedlater on in the film, uh, what
the intent of the road trip is.
Um, again, john marjora isabsolutely beautiful here.
The young actress who plays thedaughter I thought was just
stellar, stellar, stellar.
She is so gifted, uh, very pure, very natural talent and it's

(01:19:42):
just a very moving film.
It's very well done and verytender and intimate and powerful
.
And so.
I don't think enough people talkabout this movie.
I'm very surprised that itdoesn't have a buyer.
Yes.
I would think that this wouldbe a film that some studio or
some smaller boutique studiowould see as a horse in this

(01:20:06):
race?

Joseph (01:20:06):
Absolutely, I would blame this again on the
marketplace.
I would blame this on thecowardice, the risk adverse,
distributors, but I absolutelythink I'm shocked that this
hasn't yet to be picked up.
To me, this kind of reads likewhen bleaker picked up mass,
remember in 2021.
I think that bleaker would havetried campaigning this and they

(01:20:30):
may have had some success.
Um, certainly, something likesony picture classics, I think,
could have picked this up orcould potentially still pick
this up.
I think it would be a strongfilm to add to its repertoire,
even though, again, sony PictureClassics is sort of
specializing more and more inthese foreign films, if you look
at something like the Outrun.
But I think this film hastremendous potential.

(01:20:51):
I think that young actresscould definitely get a lot of
mentions for her breakoutperformance.
And of course, john Margaro isfantastic in this.
I'm going gonna repeat what Isaid, which is the idea that the
film again not unlike sorrybaby, I think is locked and
loaded with what it delivers,right, what it sets out to
deliver and what it accomplishes.
So that if you were to put amore established name on it

(01:21:14):
right, if it was not adirectorial feature debut, right
If this was I'm looking at thelist now if this was presented
by Ira Sachs, the future wouldbe much brighter.
Right, because there is thatbias.
Right, but without the bias ofthe name filmmaker behind the
film, the film is incrediblystrong and I think all it needs

(01:21:38):
is the right distributor to Afind an audience and, b sort of
coax that into a nomination forscreenplay, certainly for John
Magaro.
So I'm hopeful that someone'sgoing to you know, smarten up
and pick this up soon.

Jules (01:21:54):
Yeah, I really liked that film and, like you said, I
think those were the two biggesttakeaways from this section
with regard to future.

Joseph (01:22:05):
Oscar prospects.
But now, moving on to thepremiere section, I think we're
going to find a couple morefilms there that stick out, and
certainly what I would call theheavy favorites.
Here.
Let's start with a film calledLurker right, what I would call
the heavy favorites.
Here.
Let's start with a film calledLurker right, which was one of
the few films to definitely getdistribution via movie right, a
movie finally breaking out lastyear with the Substance.

(01:22:27):
But I'm not sure they're goingto find the same type of success
here that they did with theSubstance.
They have a couple movies thatthey're going to release here.
I just think it's more, youknow, catering to their great
audience that they have onstreaming.
I think that's what this is for.
But it had some really greatnotices, especially for its
actors.

Jules (01:22:43):
Yeah, this is a film I was very disappointed to have
missed.
I really wanted to see thisfilm.
Hearing the movie acquired itis great.
It seems right up their alley.
It seems right up my alley.
It's the kind of film I wouldlove.
This man, played by a actor whoI think has a french background

(01:23:04):
, uh, theodore pellerin, who isa very strong actor, um, who
sort of gets infatuated, I think, and uh, sort of, you know,
wiggles his way into the worldof a musical artist, I believe,
played by archie metkawe, um anduh, medec medecque, and he, uh,
I remember him from having a apivotal part in salt burn.

(01:23:26):
He's been breaking out right andso those two actors, I think,
had a lot of mentions from thisfilm, um, a lot of acclaim, and
I think this was a film that Ithink really did well.
We heard a lot about it when wewere at the festival, yeah,
people who kind of said, youknow, it was an experience
watching it.
It was kind of a cringe fest ina way.

Joseph (01:23:45):
Yeah, but in in a good way a lot of people, a lot of
people mentioned ingrid goeswest yes, kind of like that.

Jules (01:23:51):
Yes, and I really love ingrid goes west great.
I love that film.
Um and so, uh, you know, Ithink this film has a little bit
more of a dramatic bend to itthan Ingrid Goes West.
Possibly.
You know, it's not as comedic Ithink.
Um, but uh, I think that itsounds absolutely spectacular.
I can't wait to see it and uh,yeah, that was a film that was
talked about.

Joseph (01:24:11):
I'm glad Mubi got it.
Yeah, I think another titleworth mentioning here is All
that's Left of you, right, whichis directed by Sherian Davos.
I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncingthat, but I certainly remember
her from her wonderful film in2009, I believe Amrika, which I
believe went to Sundance as well.
She's been working on TV for alittle bit and she even stars in

(01:24:34):
this film, but it's sort of afilm that's talking about, I
think, the Israeli-Palestinianconflict, so it couldn't be more
timely has yet to be picked up,but it had a lot of really good
ink coming out of the festival.
I think there were even somemusings about this film possibly
being selected to represent acountry in the international

(01:24:55):
feature race, and that's why Ibring it up, like those other
films that we talked about on inthe world dramatic section.
I wouldn't be surprised if allthat's left of you is chosen to
represent, uh, one country,because I think it is a
co-production.
Um, among the internationalfeature race.
Uh, to me again, this isanother title that again I it
should, it should be picked upalready.
Um, it just speaks to themarket, um, but they say it's

(01:25:17):
very good, they say like.
so I've heard the the label epica lot I think in in the fact
that I think it may bechronically chronicling multiple
points of view or multiplemoments in time yeah um, but
again such a timely topic, andso I would not be surprised to
sort of see this film sort ofrepresent someone in
international future and maybeeven finding some success, um

(01:25:39):
success with audiences.

Jules (01:25:40):
Right, Exactly, I agree.
You know, I heard good thingsabout this film too.
I thought that it was.
I heard that it was a verycompelling piece.

Joseph (01:25:49):
And then the other, when you know, when we speak about
crossover success with audiences, I think there are two films
that are again just reallyprimed to break out, hopefully,
that are again just reallyprimed to break out, hopefully,
I think, over the spring.
Which is number one the Banquetright.
Which is by Andrew Ann.
We had an opportunity to seethat.
We did see that had a wonderfulensemble.

(01:26:09):
I think you know this is acrowd pleaser.
It was certainly a crowdpleaser when we saw it in its
premiere.

Jules (01:26:16):
Yeah, it's a film that's pretty ready for mass appeal.
You know it's a film that'sit's pretty ready for mass
appeal, right?
You know it's a remake of theang lee film, right?

Joseph (01:26:22):
and james shamus, I even think is sharing some of the
credit here for the screenplay.
I think he wrote the originalone right, and it sort of came
to the festival with bleakeralready, uh, with the film
already attached.
So I think bleaker may have asuccess here.
And if it does find success,the reason why I mentioned it is
because I wouldn't be surprisedif a successful the banquet a

(01:26:45):
banquet that breaks out over thespring, that can make a nice
chunk of of change, is able tosort of muster some type of, for
example, sag ensemblenomination at the end of the
year.
Um, and it would be a very bigcoup, I think, for andrew ann,
who hasn't really had anopportunity to sort of show his
movie to wider audiences yetright.

(01:27:06):
So yeah fire island was a huluthing exactly right and it
didn't have a lot of appealthere yeah, and then uh spa, uh,
spa night spa night was.

Jules (01:27:15):
Uh, you know it was.
That was a smaller problem,right?
I'm not sure.
If it was, it might have beenstrand releasing.
I right.

Joseph (01:27:19):
I'm not sure.
If it was, it might have beenStrand releasing, I think maybe
Rekina Lorber that released that, but I think it's great for him
to finally have a film that'sgoing to get out there to a
larger audience in a theatricalsense.
Right.
And I don't think it's outsidethe realm of possibility to have
a SAG Ensemble nomination there, when you have bowen yang with
the gladstone um, you have uhyoung jin yoon, you have joan

(01:27:41):
chen wonderful actors, uh, uh,actors that are are getting a
chance to to shine, and, and Ieven think one actor is making
his english language debut, so,uh, calumary trans in this as
well, so I would not sort ofcount that out yet, right, um?

Jules (01:27:57):
I, you know, I think it's a film that for me stood out
more, more than anything, forits colorful cast, exactly which
I think they're all verycharming, and I will say that I
see more like a possibleindependent spirit award, best
screenplay nomination, kind ofmore than I do like a SAG award,
you know, for the ensembleright now, at least for me.

Joseph (01:28:23):
But I get what you're saying If it's a film that makes
a good amount of money.
It could factor in a bigger waypossibly, and I think it could
be a sleeper hit.
I really do.
I think I would also mentionthe Ballad of Wallace Island,
which is coming out pretty soonand that has focus features
behind it.
Really interesting story herein the sense that it's sort of
based on a short film that wasnominated for a BAFTA for Best
Short Film.
People have mentioned thesupporting turn by the actor who

(01:28:47):
I think is actually one of theco-writers as well there, um,
the lead actor also involvedwith that short film, one of the
co-writers on that, um, and Ithink it could find a lot of
crossover success.
You know, um, it seems like ithas.
It's going to have its elementof romance and humor and I the

(01:29:10):
other reason I bring it up isbecause, if it is a success, I
do think that there's originalmusic in here and so I would not
be surprised especially withthat.
As I said, aforementioned baftanomination for the short and bbc
is involved in the productionhere it could be a contender for
song exactly I would not besurprised to see it contend for
something like original song andfor it to get some bafta love

(01:29:32):
and on those long lists,depending again on how it does
in the market and right now Ican see it sort of again being
sort of a sleeper hit.

Jules (01:29:39):
Right, and two films that I think are interesting to
mention here because I thinkthey similarly kind of, you know
, disappointed for people alittle bit.
I'm just going to mention themreally quick.
Was you know kind of?
The Cumberbatch had a moviewith the thing with feathers
which I don't think, you know, Ithink people were mostly
disappointed by it.
And also, interestingly enough,olivia Coleman had a film with

(01:30:03):
John Lithgow Jimba which I thinkalso kind of disappointed.
We didn't get a chance to seeeither.

Joseph (01:30:07):
But Sophie Hyde, I believe the director of that had
directed.
Colette Julio Brand beforehandand that figured into the race
and I think Emma Thompson gotreally close to nomination for
that right and two other filmsthat I think did really well
that again unfortunately didn'tget a chance to see were iris
sax's.

Jules (01:30:24):
Uh, peter hujar's day.
Um, we love iris sax.
He's an incredible filmmaker,yeah uh in 2023.
His most recent film, passages,was one of the best films of
that year.
Went to sundance, went tosundance, um, and actually did,
you know, factor into the racesomewhat?
uh, francis Graus was anincredible actor, one of my
favorite actors.
He ended up winning the NewYork Film Critics Circle for

(01:30:45):
Best Actor, and so you know itwasn't.
You know he didn't get an eyefor any of the broadcast rewards
, but it was a film that was inthe bubble.

Joseph (01:30:52):
Yeah, and it included Adele Xeropoulos, oh yes, who
everyone remembers from BlueZoologist Color, and Ben Whishaw
is there, who he's going toreteam with, and so Ben Whishaw
is in this film playing thefamous photographer Peter Hujar,
and I think the film has anexperimental take.

Jules (01:31:07):
I think it's just basically a conversation between
him and his friend LindaRosenkranz in the 1970s and his
apartment and I think that'spretty much the premise of the
film is just the conversation.
I think some people were alittle bit thrown off by that
premise, but I think criticshave really responded to it.
It was bought by Janus Films,yeah, which is a huge coup.

Joseph (01:31:29):
First time, I no, they released Passages as well.

Jules (01:31:33):
No, no Passages was Mubi.

Joseph (01:31:34):
Mubi, I'm sorry, excuse me.

Jules (01:31:40):
I thought Mubi would have picked this one Right, but I
expect this film to do reallywell with critics and to sort of
be in that conversation ofyear's best these top 10 list,
top 15 list, top 20 list,whatever.
I think it's a film that'sgoing to have a good chunk of
acclaim.
And another film that did wellwas Rebuilding.
It had a very good criticalreception and, of course, it's
very timely because it has to dowith a wildfire that's

(01:32:03):
occurring in this community,right off of this American
tragedy that happened with theCalifornia wildfires.
That was something that peopleon the ground at Sundance were
really talking about and it'sjust a very timely story.
And it got very good mentionsfor Josh O'Connor and his
performance Um, he's coming offa great year last year, he has

(01:32:23):
another great year coming upthis year, and so I expect him
to be a, you know, formidablefigure just with all his
projects point blank this year,um, and so he can add this to
that long list.
I think he has the music mancoming out as well, um, and he's
, and he's got a good number ofprojects coming out.

Joseph (01:32:42):
Right.
I think, if nothing else,rebuilding will be an additional
feather in the cap of JoshO'Connor.
I fully expect him to be aroundfor Cannes with one of his
other titles.
And then I expect him to bearound for Telluride or possibly
maybe even Venice for anothertitle.
So I think we'll be seeing JoshO'Connor at plenty of festivals

(01:33:05):
and it's only a matter of timebefore he finally is nominated
and sort of the angle here ofthe group of work might actually
end up pushing him to thatnomination this year.
I don't know if Rebuilding isthe title Unfortunately it
doesn't have a distributor yetbut I do know that the filmmaker
, I think, worked well withBleaker Street a few years ago

(01:33:27):
with A Love Song, and so Iwouldn't be shocked if Bleaker
Street sort of rolls the dice onthis film and sort of
capitalizes on that idea thatJosh O'Connor is going to have a
really big breakout year.
And and you know, the thingabout iris sax and peter
hoosier's day is as amazing ashe is.
You know, it's just hard forhim to ever figure into the

(01:33:48):
oscars and you sort of have tohave such a monster perfect
situation for that ever tohappen unfortunately
unfortunately, he's such anamazing filmmaker but because
he's, he's told so manydifferent stories, and so many
stories that you would thinkwould appeal to the academy.
Anyway, whether it's little menor love is strange, right, um,

(01:34:11):
he just hasn't been able tocross over, and I'm not sure
that peter hoosier's day isgoing to be the film to sort of
have a crossover, even thoughagain.
Ben wishaw has been on thebubble for a while now.
And so it's only a matter oftime.

Jules (01:34:23):
Yeah, I would look out for Ben Whishaw again.
I think this film is going to,you know, be something that
critics mention at year's end tosome degree, and I would watch
out.
Ben Whishaw, I think, is in theright place to be in a place of
contention with regard toregional critics, possibly even
New York Film Critics Circle orNational Society of Film Critics

(01:34:43):
.
So watch out for Ben Whishaw inthat capacity.

Joseph (01:34:47):
I mean it's going to happen at some point.
We know that.

Jules (01:34:49):
And I would say probably one of the films we most heard
about at the festival talkedabout was If I had Legs I'd Kick
you Right, starring Rose Byrne.

Joseph (01:34:59):
Yeah, I think, after that group of films, I'm going
to say that the films thatremain are what I call the big
three, and these are the filmsthat I think have the most
potential to go the distancewith Oscar voters and accolades
and, you know, sort of stickaround in the conversation,
especially as we start goingthrough the summer season and

(01:35:20):
the fall season and we startgetting these other lineups and
films again, they will fall bythe wayside.
All you have to do is look upBlitz from last year, right,
right.
So I think these are the bigthree and I think a great place
to start is, as you said, if Ihad legs I'd kick you.

Jules (01:35:34):
Right, this is Mary Bronstein's second feature, her
first one being Yeast, which Ithink came out a while ago, I
don't even remember and so thisis a film that, again, we heard
a lot of people talk about, andit's basically a film.
We did get the opportunity tosee this film, and it basically

(01:35:54):
centers around a woman, you know, kind of undergoing this kind
of nervous breakdown because alot of uh chaos is surrounding
her regarding, you know, herparenting and her child and you
know, uh, her marriage and herprofession.
So everything is sort of, youknow, chaotic, coming to a head

(01:36:16):
and um, and so, you know, it's a, it's a sort of a dark comedy,
you know, has a lot of darkelements to it, um, but also,
you know, there's quite a bit ofhumor to it.
You know, we had an audiencethat was laughing at a lot of uh
set pieces.
Um, I will say that there's abig safty's energy to this movie

(01:36:36):
, very, very, very big um, andit's, you know, not surprising.
Mary Bronson, I think, is oneof her partners.

Joseph (01:36:45):
I believe it's Ronald Right, ronald Bronson Right.

Jules (01:36:48):
He's been a collaborator, he's collaborated with the
Safdie brothers, and so I feelthis film is really inspired by
that style.
I would say that that's anaspect to this film that I find
a little bit detrimental.
You, I would say that that's anaspect to this film that I find
a little bit detrimental.
You know, I think there's a lotof you know again chaos going

(01:37:09):
on in this film, but in a way Ithought sometimes the film was a
little bit distracted by thatchaos as opposed to kind of, you
know, focus.
I think the film could havebeen a little bit more focused.
I do think it centers around agreat performance by Rose Byrne.
She's a great actor.
She a very under, uh,underestimated, actor, um, she's
always phenomenal.
She's absolutely phenomenalhere.
She gets a chance to reallyshowcase what she can do and

(01:37:31):
she's riveting, um.
So I think that's probably theaspect of this film that most
stuck with me and I thinkprobably the aspect that I think
has the most potential to kindof carry over as the year
progresses.

Joseph (01:37:44):
Right, it's a very claustrophobic piece that's
going to make some viewersuncomfortable.
I think some critics have evenquoted as being a very
unpleasant experience, but onethey're grateful for anyway.
The problem is that some Oscarvoters are just going to find it
unpleasant, right, and some ofthem may be short on the
gratitude because they have amore conventional mindset when

(01:38:09):
it comes to films.
Right, I do think that RoseByrne is a very undervalued
actor.
She has yet to be nominated.
I think she will be nominated atsome point I think she's going
to be very competitive here if,if critics get behind her.
I think you know it's not, inmy opinion, unlike tony collette
and hereditary in the sensethat it's an unconventional pick

(01:38:30):
for the traditional academyawards voter or or broadcast
award voter, and so this wouldneed a lot of support from
regional critics and certainlythe top three new york la
national film critics, um, but Ithink it's it's possible that
that happens for her.
I think one theme that we'regoing to talk about throughout

(01:38:50):
this season is sort of the softyyeah brothers, the a24
connection, again A24distributing this movie.
They have yet to announce whenthat is, but we already know
that they have two SoftieBrothers movies, individual
films coming out later this year, probably going to figure

(01:39:11):
heavily into the race at somepoint.
And so I think I wonder ifthere's enough energy to go
around to sort of to push eachmovie.
Um, and we sort of talked aboutthis with sorry baby, but one of
the big issues for any filmreleased by a24 is that a24 is
gonna have to pick a favoriteright they're gonna have to pick

(01:39:33):
a second, and if you're outsideof that you're gonna have a
difficult time sort of gettingin right, and so I think that's
part of the issue here, andanother one is that there isn't
much else to campaign besidesRose Burns turn.
I don't think the screenplay isgoing to be embraced by the the
writers branch.
I do think that the film mayforeshadow what ends up being a

(01:39:57):
big year for ASAP Rocky.
He does appear in Spike Lee'sfilm, which I think is going to
end up going to con.
We'll see what happens.
He's very good in this film too.
People have mentioned him as avery strong ensemble.
A lot of people were making alot out of Conan O'Brien.

Jules (01:40:13):
I thought he was actually pretty good in this film.

Joseph (01:40:15):
He was very good in it.
It has one of my favorites.
Danielle from Patty Cakes is inhere she's absolutely wonderful
and there here and she'sabsolutely wonderful and there
is so much going on in the movieand there's a lot of things
that are unconventional, dare Isay, erratic.
Yeah, um that it may be aturnoff to voters, but if
critics really champion this,they're gonna force the voters

(01:40:36):
hand to at least watch it.
Watch this film and pop thescreener, for example.
I'm not sure if they're goingto campaign this comedy or drama
at the golden globes.
Right, if she gets a nominationthere, I think that helps.
Rose byrne is no stranger tothe sag awards, I believe.
I think she's been nominated, Ithink at least with her

(01:40:57):
ensembles, if not individually.
Um, so it wouldn't surprise meto see her get a mention there,
even though we know that they'renot necessarily nuts for Safdie
Brothers films?
They haven't really crashedthere yet.
But again, the Safdie Brotherstheme will be a large part of
this whole season.
And so this is the entry pointand as festivals appear, we're

(01:41:19):
going to revisit the name Safdieand unconventional turns and um
filmmakers that are ripe forattention, and we're going to
find out if.
If mary bronstein maybe figuresin there.
It's not her first film.
Actually, that film yeast, Iactually think starred a young
greta gerwig, yeah, so there isa little bit of a connection

(01:41:40):
there.
And does a24 have the firepowerto sort of campaign everything
equally and sort of make a dentin each individual race?
we're going to find out, butthere's a lot of a lot of, um,
sort of weak points in terms ofhow appealing the film is.
For example, we haven't evenstarted talking about theatrical
.
I don't think this is uncutgems at all.

(01:42:01):
I I think you know uncut gemsthe way they.
They release that, on sort ofcrashing christmas day with adam
sandler it's.
It's tough for me to think thatthis movie is going to be able
to find a theatrical audienceright, and I think that that may
be a major factor, especiallywhen you consider that the other
two safty brother movies may bebigger audience players in
terms of releasing theatricaland finding an audience and

(01:42:23):
making some money, and thatmight be a pivotal hurdle for
this film.

Jules (01:42:29):
Right.
I think, like I said, I thinkit bears mentioning that, you
know, even though I think youand I were a little bit more
okay, a little bit morerestrained with our enthusiasm
for the film, it was a film thatdid well critically.
You know it has a lot ofcritical acclaim.
Critics really responded tothis and maybe we won't be
mentioning it down the line, butthis film was actually picked

(01:42:51):
up to be screened at the BerlinFilm Festival.
That's right, and it would goon to win the Best Actor Award
for Rose Byrne, which was a hugecoup for her.
Yeah.
And again, if you see the film,again it's not.
If you see the film, it's nothard to see why.
You know, the film is really, Ithink, at its best when it's
sort of really focused in onthis performance.

(01:43:14):
That is, uh, very, verycompelling right from rose burn
and that wasn't, uh, I think, anuncompetitive win.

Joseph (01:43:20):
I think it was competitive.
There were a lot of choicesthat year, so I think it was
great for rosebird to sort ofturn that out, um, and it's a
great sort of first step again.
I think the next step isdeciding a release date, trying
to get an audience to watch itand then sort of again forcing
the hand of critics, andcertainly major critics, which I
think tony collette forhereditary, hereditary was

(01:43:42):
missing.
Sometimes you really have topush their hand if you want to
make something like rose burnhappen.
Um, and then again, I thinksort of ingrained in the movie
is that if it goes anywhere itsort of goes by herself because
there's so little else to topoint out in the movie.
That's, you know, ready for avoter to say oh, I want to

(01:44:03):
nominate that.
Yes.
The next movie to talk about, Ithink um, in that big three, is
actually the adaptation of thebroadway musical kiss of the
spider woman which premiered atsundance right, and that was one
of the bigger titles topremiere.
I think a lot of peoplementioned how it was not a
typical movie you would show atSundance, certainly because it's

(01:44:25):
a musical, but also it lookedlike a bigger project, and I
will say that that when I saw it, I was really sort of impressed
by how much movie was there interms of, you know, everything
they were able to achieve, andwhat I can only imagine and what
I think has been sort of said,has been a more modest budget.
I think we're talking about thehigh twenties or the thirts, um,

(01:44:47):
and so a lot of things goingfor this project.
I mean, bill condon is nostranger to the oscars, right?
Yes, um, a former academy awardwinner for gods and monsters,
but he also made kinsey, whichwas able to get a nomination for
laura linney, um, gods andmonsters, of course, nominated
for ian mckellen and lynnRedgrave, and then he was able
to get one of the few writingnominations for a musical with

(01:45:10):
Chicago, and then his filmDreamgirls, another musical,
showed up in eight categories, Imean, three of which were song,
but Jennifer Hudson won an.
Academy Award.
Eddie Murphy was honored forsupporting actor.
Captain Zeta-Jones.
Captain Zeta-Jones Won forChicago.
Exactly, even though RobMarshall, I believe, directed
that film.
But again, the costumes and, Ibelieve, the art direction, the

(01:45:33):
sound work.
I think the sound work ofDreamgirls even won and I think,
even if you look at somethingmore recently, like Beauty and
the Beast, the live actionremake there, Got a few
nominations.
Got a few nominations,including for production design
and costume design.
It was a huge hit in theaters.
I think it's a very impressivemovie.
I think there's a lot going forit.

(01:45:54):
A lot of people were talkingabout the performances.
Yes.
And the performances, I think,are certainly a highlight of the
film.
Yes, you know, and I thinkthat's across the board, I think
people were really sort of uhamazed by the job that Jennifer
Lopez does and sort of they kepttalking about this idea that
she hasn't been in a musical andI, you know it.

(01:46:15):
Just, it's absolutely crazywhen, when you see the film,
that she has not been in a bigmusical.
Um, the musical numbers are sowell realized.
I thought they were some of themost visually rich, uh sort of
set pieces I saw within the filmand possibly within the
entirety of Sundance.
I think this is certainly oneof Tobias Schleiser's I hope I'm

(01:46:36):
pronouncing that right One ofhis uh best looking films.
Yeah.
Um, and there's again.
There's a lot of work there and, um, I think that's a great
place to sort of spotlight thework of someone like colleen
atwood, oh yeah, who's doing thecostume design there and again,
she's no stranger to, uh,academy awards and nominations
and don't know her legendarysort of collaborations with tim

(01:46:56):
burden.
Um, the production design andthe musical numbers again, is
quite beautiful as well.
Um, I believe, uh, scottchambliss, who has yet to be
nominated for an oscar but hasbeen nominated plenty of times,
uh, among his guild.
Um, so they did beautiful workthere, um, and then I mean back
to the performances.
I mean, jennifer lopez is awonderful job in the musical

(01:47:18):
aspects and there's a lot ofcomedy to it.
Um, but I think not enoughpeople mentioned how great Diego
Luna is in this film and he hasmore of a supporting turn here,
but he's so perfectly cast.
I bought him in the musicalnumbers but more than anything,
sort of the dramatic heart ofthe film that he shares with his
scene partner.
I thought he did a fantasticjob and I again would not be

(01:47:42):
surprised to see a lot ofmentions for him later in the
year.
And then a lot of people had somany great things to say about
the young actor, tonya Tu.
Tonya Tu, who is the lead inthe film yes, right, and he just
did an absolutely fantastic jobFantastic Right, and he got a
lot of great ink.
I think this is one of his firstfilm roles, and certainly his

(01:48:03):
first leading role yes, firstfilm roles and certainly his
first leading role.
Yes, right, because he is thetrue lead of the film and he is
playing the role that was, Ithink, made popular by william
hurt, um, who won an oscar forthe same role in 1985.
Um, and I think it'd be good totalk about that, the idea that
something really going for thisfilm is that it's such a

(01:48:23):
respected property.
Right in 1985 it was able toscore nominations for picture
and director for the greatbabenko um.
William hurt was able to win,you know, raul julia, yeah, who
played um valentine.
Valentine did not get nominatedbut he got really close, he got
really close and I will say hewas campaigned as a co-lead,

(01:48:43):
even though he did get a lot oftraction.
I think he did get a goldenglobe nomination, also nominated
for screenplay at the academyawards.
At the golden globes even soniabraga was nominated for the
part of, uh, the spider woman,um, and again, sonia braga has
yet to be nominated, but againshe was nominated for that at
the golden globes.
Um, and then, beyond that sortof layer of sort of prestige

(01:49:04):
that the project has, you sortof add on this additional layer,
because it gets adapted fromthe original novel and from the
movie again into the Broadwaymusical and then you put in
names like Terrence McNally, youput in names like Chita Rivera,
you put Kander and Eb, and soit's just a really respected
project.
And now it's come to BillCondon again.

(01:49:25):
I wouldn't call him an oscarfavorite, but I would certainly
say he's on their radar and hemakes projects that they respond
to.
Now, not all his projects dowell, um, but I think more often
than not he makes a projectthat voters, that resonates with
voters.
Even something like I remembermr holmes was a, was sort of a
sleeper hit in 2015 and I thinkif it had the campaign had been

(01:49:48):
managed a little bit better.
I wouldn't be surprised to seeIan McKellen pick up more steam
for that and certainly more textfor that film, again teaming
with Laura Linney.
There it even includes TomFleischman, who has won an Oscar
, has collaborated with somereally prominent filmmakers.
So again, to me, this is one oftwo Sundance projects that has

(01:50:18):
a lot of sort of pedigree rightand a lot of contention for
numerous categories sort ofbuilt into the project in and of
itself.
You know, I'm talking about thecostumes, the production design
, the sound, the acting.
I think by virtue of it, beingable to compete in multiple
categories.
It stands out and so-.

Jules (01:50:37):
That's to its benefit.

Joseph (01:50:38):
That's really to its benefit.
It's sort of the opposite of,for example, something like If I
had Legs, where, again, I can'tsee it having much more
traction than best actress,right.
But here's something that couldhit above the line and even
below the line because it is amusical, um, and I also think
that you know when I, when, whenwe saw it, I think the audience

(01:51:01):
really ate it up and so I I dothink that the commercial
prospects on this film are highand could potentially be, you
know, unconventional numbers forwhat is a Sundance premiere.
So I think that's yet anotherfactor going for it, and so I
think that this is a strongcontender for a lot of
categories.

Jules (01:51:21):
Right, you know, I think I was like you.
I was impressed with a lot ofaspects of this film.
I think it has a lot ofstrengths and a lot of
compelling aspects to it.
I will say I do think that it'snot a film that's going to be
for everyone interesting aboutthis film and that I think it's

(01:51:47):
a very interesting antitheticalpiece to what just happened last
year with Emilia Perez andNetflix, in that I feel this
film is a more proper, adequate,fair representation of, for
example, the trans experience,queerness in general, the story.
The film is very queer forward,which I think think is one of
its biggest strengths.

(01:52:08):
There's a lot of Latinoinvolvement in the project.
It feels very Latino-centric.
I know the 1985 film had moreto do with, you know, brazilian
politics, but this one is moreLatino-centric, aiming to sort
of have you know this issupposed to be occurring in an
argentinian prison, um, but youknow the film feels that way.

(01:52:29):
You can feel the latinocollaboration and talent in this
film, not just from its youknow, uh, no, from its uh
respect for the source material,but also the performers, and so
, in a way, I feel like peoplewho had more of an issue with
Emilia Perez tend to reallyrespond to this film.

(01:52:50):
That, I think, does a lot ofthings that Emilia Perez didn't
do so well, and maybe even viceversa.
If you really liked EmiliaPerez, maybe you'll like this
film a little less, because,again, they're both sort of
opposite.
They're both dealing withsimilar ingredients, but the
ultimate product feels different, right?
And so I also think there'ssomething interesting too, as

(01:53:12):
you were saying, the trajectoryof this material that has had
such a long history, history,and really, you know, a history
that is sort of imbued withcritical acclaim but also awards
.
So you talk about the 1985 film, which was a winner of Best

(01:53:32):
Actor and was nominated for BestPicture.
You talk about the Tony musical, which swept the Tonys that
year, and so I think this filmhas that going for it and maybe,
possibly, that's something thatit's going to have to fight
against, because it has all thisreiteration of material, right,
um, possibly we'll see whathappens there, um, but I think
there's a lot of rich thingsabout the film.

(01:53:54):
I do think the musical numbersare just dazzling.
They're beautiful, they lookgreat, yeah.
Um, the production design andthose numbers is wonderful.
The costumes are divine, yeah,and I will say that I thought,
you know, jennifer Lopez was areally big standout in this.
She's sort of synonymous withthe musical numbers, right,
because that's when she appearsExactly.
And you know, I thought shegave an incredible performance

(01:54:17):
here.
I think it really highlightsall her strengths as a performer
.
You know her as an actress, heras an actress, her as a dancer,
her as a singer it's all sortof packaged into one and it's a
very it's a it's a it's awonderful performance from her.
You know, I will say I thinkyou know Jennifer Lopez has had

(01:54:38):
this sort of unfair relationshipwith the Academy Awards.
She was so unfortunatelysnubbed from hostels a few years
back, which was incrediblydisappointing.
And you know, when you look ather filmography and you look at
films like Selena and Out ofSight and an actor who's never
had her due, you know she has areally, you know, prime spot
here to really shine and reallykind of you know, make up for

(01:55:01):
those losses and nominationsbecause she gets a real chance
to shine here.
You can't help but see whenshe's on the screen she really,
you know, she gives, she there's, there's.
You get a little bit of MarilynMonroe, you get a little bit of
Ava Gardner, you get a littlebit of Rita Hayworth you just
feel that presence, you feelthat glamour, you feel that
exuberance um of you know 50smusical yeah musical starlets

(01:55:26):
and it's really just lovely,it's just really uh powerful
it's really memorable too.

Joseph (01:55:31):
Yeah, that's what the film is asking of her, and she
delivers in eight like aces,aces yeah, yeah, and so she's
whenever she's on screen.

Jules (01:55:39):
You can't help.
But, you know, feel the echo ofthose beautiful starlets and
it's a great aspect to this film.

Joseph (01:55:45):
It's a very, it's thrilling yeah, an audience has
clapped and yeah, absolutely andI completely agree with you.

Jules (01:55:50):
I think this is one of diego luna's best performances.
I was completely convinced byhis character, oh yeah, and I
think the chemistry betweenbetween him and 22 was very
compelling, yeah, and verybelievable, um and so, yeah, I
thought he was fantastic hereand he fits the character like a
glove like a glove,spectacularly um.
And then I will say I thought Iagreed 22 was absolutely

(01:56:12):
fantastic here.
I think he carries the entirefilm on his shoulders.
It's so exciting to see a newperformer, you know, kind of
take on this risk and thisventure and carry it off
wonderfully.
Um, he has a beautiful voiceand so whenever he's in the
musical numbers it also standsout to me and there's just so

(01:56:32):
much heart and soul to hisperformance.
I think he was really a aperformance that stood out to a
lot of people throughout thefestival period and I think he
really is the heart of thismovie, um, and so I hope to see
traction for all of theseperformers I mean when you look
at someone like tonya too, andyou know the national world
review hands out thatbreakthrough actor thing right

(01:56:54):
he's definitely going to contendin awards like that and again,
certainly golden globes, andagain, if, if people push, push
it forward, you know, I reallydo think that he has a chance to
to sort of come close at thevery least.
Yeah, yeah I would love thatagain.
I think he's the heart here.
I would love to for these threeperformers to get traction.

(01:57:15):
I agree with you, theperformances here are probably
for me the biggest highlight ofthe movie.
Um, and, as you said, billconan is no stranger to the
academy awards.
I think he is on their radarand there's some.
You know this feels very.
You know he excels here.
He excels in the musicalaspects of this movie because

(01:57:36):
this is sort of his bread andbutter in a way and he does it
wonderfully.
But I also felt like I wasquite touched by several aspects
of the relationship between thetwo men and I thought that was
handled with care as well.

Joseph (01:57:49):
Yeah, I think that's one thing going for the movie is
that it does have sort of thisglamorous musical aspect that is
very much an homage to goldenHollywood musicals and again, it
absolutely aces all of that.
But it's also a really movingstory right and it has a
timeliness that is is perfectfor the campaign right now if

(01:58:10):
you're going to campaign this.
Um, I also think that you knowit has had so many iterations,
but bill condon makes some boldchanges here yes, I think it's
probably the most.

Jules (01:58:22):
I think it's the most radical film that Bill Condon
has ever done, in my opinion.
You know, and I think that'syou know, not saying nothing.
Right.
Right, but I a hundred percentagree with you.

Joseph (01:58:32):
And I think that it's going to be changes like that
that I don't want to, you knowget to and you know speak to in
death on.
But I think those changes thatare really going to make, you
know, critics and audiencemembers sort of say, oh well, I
do think it's adding somethingnew to the discussion.

(01:58:52):
But so I really think that tome, the only as someone who
loves the original 1985 movie, Ithink that one of personally,
for me, one of the shortcomingsis that I feel like it could
have a little more brutality interms of its depiction of the
prison system, right?
um, I get why you maybe don'twant to, you know, depict that

(01:59:14):
too, sort of um vividly, becauseyou are trying to balance these
two aspects.
Um, that would feel odd, youknow it's.
It's certainly a juggling thatyou have to do, um, but to me,
the only sort of reason why thisfilm isn't locked and loaded in
several races and and certainlylike sort of cementing its

(01:59:36):
competitiveness in multipleraces above the line and below
the line, is really only becauseit hasn't been picked up yet.
And again, the only thing I cansay to that is that it's a the
volatility of the marketplaceand sort of the cowardice and
and and being risk averse.
Um, I think this movie wouldactually do really well, really
well, if you put in the righthands if you put in the right

(01:59:58):
hands and you show it to a wideaudience and you release it at
the right time.
But I think it needs care.
I think it needs care becauseit's a very?
Um, specific project and so youcan't be putting it fourth or
fifth or sixth on your list.
But if someone like foxsearchlight had bought this film
, I would have said yes, youknow.
Digga luna is going to benominated, jr flover is going to
be nominated, tony 2 is goingto contend.
Costumes, production, design,sound, the works, but they

(02:00:22):
haven't bought it yet.
I don't know why they're.
They're waiting necessarily.
All I can say is maybe they'rewaiting till after con.
Um, one aspect that I wouldtalk about is you know, speaking
of searchlight, I I think thiswould fit really well for sony
classics yeah there is this sortof international element and I

(02:00:43):
actually feel that this filmcould potentially play even
bigger overseas than in thedomestic market.
Right, and so part of me youknow, knowing that sony classics
likes releasing these sort ofum international films to
domestic audiences, I thinkwhoever picks this up
internationally is going to bereally big um.
It's going to be very importantbecause you have to campaign to

(02:01:05):
more international voters.
I think you have to focus yourcampaign on all of these aspects
.
I don't think a campaign sortof dedicated just to Tonya 2 or
just to Jennifer Lopez is reallygoing to work for the film.
I think you have to sort ofcampaign it as one giant product
, one giant film, all thesedifferent aspects.
And then I do do think there'sa there's a part of me, that

(02:01:28):
sort of you know, I there's anelement in the way the film is
made and what it talks aboutthat, you know, kind of flirts
with the aesthetic or the colorsor a little bit of the yeah
100% skewness of our film that'swhy I thought of sony classics
again.
I don't know why they haven'tjumped on it, but I know that

(02:01:48):
the outrun took a while to sortof stick with sony classics, I
guess, to maybe get a numberthat they liked.
And I know that this is one ofthe pricier films at sundance.
But again I do feel like thefilm to a certain extent sort of
campaigns itself.
Uh, once you sort of commit toit right right um, and that it
does have a bright future interms of the, the major

(02:02:11):
theatrical market.
Um, I don't know if sun endswas the place to premiere it.
I wonder if a section in conwould have been better.
Um, there is more internationalappeal there.
Um, I don't know if it couldplay.
I mean, some people have saidthat it might play Toronto or
Telluride later.
I don't think that's a badthing.

(02:02:31):
I don't know if this is abetter fall release, winter
release or summer release.
I can't make that out yetbecause I think it has to be a
really sort of intricatecampaign and rollout of
intricate campaign and rollout.

Jules (02:02:48):
But I think if you're a distributor and you commit the
time to it, I think there's anabundance of a reward that
you're going to reap with thisfilm at the end yeah, you know,
I think you know we're waitingto see who buys it, and I think
the fact that it's lacking adistributor right now is what's
kind of creating someuncertainty here right, um, but
almost everything in sundance islacking in distribution.

Joseph (02:03:06):
Exactly that's a big problem, yeah exactly.

Jules (02:03:09):
It's certainly not alone in that conversation, but we'll
see what happens there.

Joseph (02:03:15):
And then I think the last film I'll talk about as the
big three is Train Dreams right, which is one of the rare films
to have been able to pick up adistributor right.
In.
Netflix, yes, and so right,which is one of the rare films
to have been able to pick up adistributor right, and netflix,
yes, and so we know that netflix, to a certain degree believes
in the film is going to try tocampaign the film.
Um, a lot of things going forthis film, right we didn't get a
chance to see it.

Jules (02:03:36):
Yes, we did, but we did hear really really good things
about it.
It got really well receivedcritically.
It has a really good criticalreception right and you know, I
think amongst these top three weconsider it to be probably, you
know, the top of the top threeright, exactly.

Joseph (02:03:51):
I think this is again one of the the, I guess, the
most competitive title againbecause, like kiss of spider
woman, it has multiplecategories where it can hit.
Um, people have certainlytalked about the turn from joe
egerton right and um who's duefor a who's due for nomination.
At some point People have reallyspotlighted the cinematography
and well, you know, let's startwith this.

(02:04:13):
This is another feature.
So this is the same team moreor less from Sing Sing, that
sort of failed to sort ofcapture that nomination in
January.
They went on to premiere a filmin Sundance in January.
Capture that nomination injanuary.
They went on to premiere filmin sundance in january and again
it was met with overwhelminglypositive, uh, reception by
critics and audiences.
And so clint bentley isdirecting this one, but he did

(02:04:35):
score a nomination on thescreenplay for sing sing right
along with uh, greg queter, uh,who scored a nomination for
writing as well.
He's co-writing this one.
I believe they're bothproducing Black Bear is one of
the companies behind this film.
They were also working on SingSing, and so I debate whether

(02:04:56):
that's a plus or a minus.

Jules (02:04:57):
Right, because they were just there.

Joseph (02:04:58):
Exactly?
Is this a plus in the sensethat we're more familiar with
their work and we know that thisisn't a one-off?
We know that they make goodfilms and we know that we sort
of skipped them last year and wehave sort of an iou?

Jules (02:05:11):
of them.

Joseph (02:05:12):
Well, they get nominated as writers right, but they
didn't get nominated for the bigone yeah and again.
This is, you know, again, amovie that could potentially
compete for best picture.
Yes, right, the reception isreally good and Netflix is
behind it.
So you have to wonder ifthey're going to approach it
with the IOU or they're going toapproach it with the sort of

(02:05:32):
been there, done that.
I want to nominate you, notconsecutively, right, I don't
want to nominate youconsecutively.
Clint Bentley had previouslydirected Jockey, which did
really well here at Sundance aswell, and you know, at one point
there was this idea that youknow Clifton Collins Jr could
finally muster a nomination forthat.
It didn't happen.

(02:05:53):
It was too small of a film, toointimate of a film, so he
hasn't necessarily broken in asa director yet.
It is based on a popular novellawhich I believe was shortlisted
for the pulitzer, and I thinkthat helps, and the writer in
and of himself isn't a strangerto the to the movie treatment

(02:06:15):
because, uh, he, I think, alsowrote the source material for
jesus the son which was madeinto a film and although a
wonderful film and even thoughit didn't make much noise when
it came out I think 2000, 2001,I think it's only grown in sort
of admiration and appreciationfrom, from viewers, both in the
industry and just cinephiles.

(02:06:36):
Um, so I think that that reallyhelps.
Um, I think casey affleck is anexecutive producer on this and
I think he might have beenattached to to act in it, to be
the lead in it at some point,right, um, but this is again a
film, a period piece, um sort ofchronicling this uh individual
who's uh a laborer laborer inthe american west and sort of

(02:06:57):
you get to see time pass as he'sworking on these different
things and also, I think,recovering from a tragedy or
tragedies involved in somematter, right I think there's a
familial loss, but at the sametime there's just people keep
talking about this sort ofepicness.
Yeah to the film, right, um, andalso a lot of visual beauty to

(02:07:18):
the film.
And the cinematographer is alsowho also worked on jockey and
he was able to get a mention, Ithink, from the spotlight, a
spotlight award from thecinematographers guild.
So he's not a complete who alsoworked on Jockey, and he was
able to get a mention, I thinkfrom the Spotlight Award from
the Cinematographers Guild, sohe's not a complete stranger
there either, and I think he'spresented films at the camera
image, so he is slowly buildingthat sort of reputation amongst

(02:07:39):
his cinematographers and it hasa very good supporting cast,
from what I've heard, includingWilliamiam h macy and felicity
jones um, and the story just inand of itself.
What I know of it sounds like itcould certainly be the kind of
thing that would be nominatedfor adapted screenplay.
I think joe edgerton, as we said, is very much overdue due for a

(02:08:01):
nomination, but there's thisaspect to the performance, which
is that the film has a lot ofnarration, has what I've heard
is a lot of narration by thewonderful will padden, yes, but
I do wonder if that is going toaffect how you know actors, you
know sort of perceive theperformance.
If they're gonna, you know,take that away from the

(02:08:22):
performance and maybe sort ofhave that be a reason why they
keep him off.

Jules (02:08:25):
Is that a plus or a minus ?

Joseph (02:08:26):
Is that a plus or a minus?
I don't know.
Again, I do think a ClintBentley not unlike Greg, is not
going to necessarily be able toto break into director yet,
because they're very specificabout who they want to highlight
.
But I think it's certainly incontention for adapted
screenplay actor, possiblypicture.

(02:08:46):
People talk about thecinematography and, again, he's
no stranger to cinematographers.
Now, I think a lot of it isreally going to depend on
Netflix, right.
I think a lot of these films,the big idea that I, my big
takeaway, is that it really alot of it depends on the
campaign, right.
If focus features may befocused on DD a little bit more

(02:09:07):
than Conclave, the outcome mighthave been different.
If it wasn't Amazon behind myOld Ass, the outcome might have
been different.
If it wasn't Sony Classics withthe outrun, it might have been
different.
So I do wonder if Netflix hasthe ability to sort of campaign
multiple movies and you knowthey're going to pick up movies
down the line and if they'regoing to give this film the sort

(02:09:30):
of rollout that it would need.
I also wonder if you know, fromwhat I understand the way it's
photographed, if it wouldn'tbenefit from a large screen.

Jules (02:09:39):
Yeah, right, right, I agree with you 100%.
I think this film has all theingredients to make a big impact
in terms of the acclaim, thesource material, joe Edgerton,
who I think a lot of people wantto see nominated, awarded in
some capacity.
He's one of our great actorsand this team was there just

(02:10:01):
last year, so obviously theyrespond to the work to some
degree, since Sing didn't get aneye for best picture, but it's
still got three nominations,among them a best actor
nomination and best screenplaynomination.
I do wonder again if theback-to-back kind of thing is
going to hurt or help.
I, my gut right now tells methat it hurts that they were
just there nominated forscreenplay, right, and I think
it does hurt that it's a netproduction, I mean a Netflix

(02:10:24):
that Netflix acquired, uh, thethe project, um, because I don't
think that they're that greatat, you know, uh, juggling a lot
of their releases.
I usually have, like one horseum, that they're kind of put all
their attention to, um.
That being said, you know theydo pretty well in the acting
categories.
You know they do manage to getattention for some of their

(02:10:47):
actors in the in the actingcategory.
So I think that's going forJoel Edgerton.
Like like you said, I think itwould benefit from a theatrical
experience based on what peopleare saying about the photography
, and so I have questions aboutagain, as you were saying,
netflix back-to-back nominations, but it is a film that I think

(02:11:08):
has all the right elements tohave staying power.

Joseph (02:11:13):
Yeah, I agree.
I think this is a film thatcould hit above the line and
below the line.
I would have preferred and thisis again the minutiae of an
Oscar season, but that's reallywhat it comes down to had Sing
Sing been released when it wassupposed to be released in 2023,
and they had a gap.
I would like its chances better.

(02:11:34):
Right, I agree.
If it wasn't consecutivenominations, I would argue that
because Sing Sing was notreleased in 2023, it probably
missed out on more nominationsthat it might have gotten, had
it been released in 2023.
That's again another mistake,and so those are things that
hopefully movies and campaignsand producers and financiers and
distributors are payingattention to.

(02:11:55):
You know you shouldn't wait toacquire these movies.
You shouldn't wait a whole year.
That that's something hopefullyyou learned last year through
sing sing um, and we'll talkabout this, because there are a
bunch of movies that are goingto be released late, that are
from last year, that you knowthe sort of energy behind them
has been sucked out and that'sprobably poor decision making.

(02:12:17):
And the other thing is that Iwould have liked it more had
this film not been Netflix andhad maybe been focus features.
Had they moved from A24 to focusfeatures.
I think that would have beengood.
Or another boutique instead ofNetflix.
Like I said, I think what we'verealized the last year with
Netflix is that Netflix is nevergoing to win Best Picture

(02:12:40):
Unless they really really reallytotally recalibrate their uh
structure of releasing films.
It just the respect isn't there, um, so there's a chance that
this is just another sort ofreally wonderful film that sort
of gets lost on netflix.
I sort of think about, you know, something like mudbound that
was sort of able to muster thatattention at the end, um.

(02:13:04):
Multiple actors got attentionfor it, the screenplay was
nominated, the cinematographywas nominated um.
But I do think that they wereable to beat the odds right
mudbound, because usually it'sthe kind of film that would get
lost and lo and behold, thatyear was, I think, netflix's
first competitive year at theoscars.
They did not get an hour forbest picture, not amongst nine.

(02:13:26):
They might have, though theymight have, but starting then,
you know, netflix starts to havea little bit of a streak Right
and so, that being said, in 2017, that was the Netflix movie
they were pushing.

Jules (02:13:38):
There wasn't multiple Netflix movies and you kind of
know that at some point they'regoing to get something flashier
than Train Dreams of, know thatat some point they're going to
get something flashier thantrain dreams and they're going
to give train dreams the sort ofthe, the, the b movie treatment
unless, unless, for example,con comes through and they don't
find anything that they feelhas enough broad appeal for

(02:13:59):
either audiences or the academyand they end up saying, well,
you know, we didn't find thatmuch at con, so we're going to
put all the chips on traindreams I mean, that could happen
, it could happen, it couldhappen.
I really doubt it if it didhappen, it would be a very good
thing for train dreams I don'tknow.

Joseph (02:14:15):
I don't know that it would be a very good thing for
train dreams because, like Isaid, I think netflix sometimes
is not always a positive to havein your corner right.
I really think that we'regetting to a moment for Oscar
voters where you have to sort ofprove yourself in the market,
and so when Sing Sing comes outand doesn't make much money.

(02:14:37):
I think that that's adetermining factor, and maybe
Train Dreams may have been ableto capture an audience.
I'm not sure.
At least it does have thatsource material that probably
has a good amount of fans.
And maybe that would havetranslated to to some success at
the box office Right.
But so I do think that those arethe big three.
If I had legs I'd kick you,kiss a spider woman and train

(02:15:00):
dreams, and then I would alsokeep an eye out for rebuilding,
rebuilding Peter Ho dreams, andthen I would also, uh, keep an
eye out for rebuilding um,rebuilding peter hoosier's day,
um, certainly joshua connor,with the year he's gonna have um
.
But more importantly, on the usdramatic side again, the right
campaign for omaha and the rightcampaign for sorry baby could

(02:15:21):
really, really, really, you know, surprise you know, surprise
you, right?

Jules (02:15:28):
Yeah, that was our very big dive into the Sundance Film
Festival 2025.
It was a pleasure to attend thefestival and to be able to see
the films that we saw, and again, we see a lot of potential,
handled with care and in theright way for a lot of these
titles to be able to compete.
Yeah, let's hope that they landin the right way for a lot of

(02:15:48):
these titles to be able tocompete.

Joseph (02:15:49):
Yeah, um let's hope that they are land in the right
hands.
Yeah, they have to go to theright hands and you have to be
smart about it and you have tobe committed, but there's
absolutely a lot of potentialhere all right and uh, so this
concludes this episode.

Jules (02:16:01):
Um, thank you for joining us on what is episode one of
our season two.
We're going to be in this sortof spring summer season.
We're going to be trying tohave a usual time slot of
Fridays so you can look for anew episode of Academy Anonymous
every Friday.
Perfect, mark your calendarsand signing off.

(02:16:24):
This is Jules and I'm Joseph,and it's been a pleasure.
The music on this episode,entitled Cool Cats, was
graciously provided by KevinMacLeod and incompetechcom.
Licensed under Creative Commonsby Attribution 3.0.

(02:16:45):
Licensed under Creative Commonsby Attribution 3.0.
Http//creativecommonsorg.
Licenses by 3.0.

Joseph (02:17:01):
Disclaimer the Academy Anonymous podcast is in no way
affiliated or endorsed by theAcademy of Motion Picture Arts
and Sciences.

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