Ep. 11 Hunting on the wrong side of the fence with Haroon Khan

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Most of the time when I'm hunting in the state forest
, I'm navigating, trying torecord my hunts, I'm trying to
look for sign, I'm trying tolook for deer, so I'm doing a
lot of things.
So it can be a bit stressful attimes.
And I just turned and there wasa Sambar standing on literally
on top of me, at about fivemeters away.

(00:28):
Wow, literally five meters away.
And she's looking down on melike this.
They think that halal is justlimited to processing.
For me, halal has a much deepermeaning to it.
It starts all the way from howyou even got the money to to
hunt that, if that makes sense.

(00:49):
All right.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Welcome back to another episode of accurate
hunts a life outdoors.
It's a bit chilly in in here.
You might be able to see thesteam.
We've got the fire going behindus, joined today in person by
Haroon Yep.
Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you again.
Thank you, we met this morningand we'll get into that pretty
quickly.
But, haroon, I've been watchingyour videos pop up out of

(01:20):
nowhere seemingly, and you knowthe video contents are relevant
for more.
I like the editing style.
I envy someone who can edit,because I can't, and I know you
said it takes up a bit of time.
That's definitely a big part ofit, what goes into a video and
what doesn't.
But it's like we've met outhere, we're on a farm, we've

(01:43):
been hunting.
It's, you know, accurate Hunts.
The show's called Life Outdoors.
It's what we try and do and Itry to do a lot of my episodes
outdoors in this sort of setting, and the regular listeners and
watchers will know that when wemeet out at Accurate Hunts HQ
and things like that, it's justa bit.
It's a more, less formalsetting and a more casual
conversation and and that's whatwe're here to do.

(02:04):
And you, uh, you mentioned thatyou hadn't ever heard a fellow
but croak yeah, when we weretalking yeah.
So we, uh.
I said well, what are you doingon this weekend?

Speaker 1 (02:14):
and you just happen to be coming through sydney,
yeah, yeah, so you live inbrisbane, I live in brisbane yes
, uh, it was coincidence, purecoincidence, that I have a camp
set up, a hunter's camp sort ofa thing, for a small group of
ours.
And then, yeah, we just startedtalking and then you said, just

(02:37):
come over, and then it'sliterally on the way.
I mean, we don't even have totake a left or right, it's
literally on the way.
So I said I'm not missing thisfor anything.
Even if it would have been outof the way, I would have never
missed this opportunity.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Makes it easier when it's on the way.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, it's just definitely you know, because
I've never when you said, youknow there's still a chance,
although we were in the tail endof April, and I think there's
still a chance to hear some ofthe croaking, and yeah, we'll
get into it.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
But this is exciting.
I'm glad you're excited by it.
One of the main reasons Ibrought you out here is your
background.
I want to say nearlytraditionally is and completely
is state forest, public landhunting, and I wanted to show
you how it's done.
On the other side of the coin,yeah, and we experienced a few
of those differences today.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
It was a weird feeling.
I've always been on the otherside of the fence thinking am I
on the right side?
Am I on the right side or not?
But every time I had to remindmyself okay, I'm with someone
here, I'm not doing anythingwrong.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
It feels strange walking around with the cattle.
Yeah, true, and we did see.
I reckon we saw 15 or so deer,I suppose this morning maybe,
yeah, quite a few In total, yeah.
Some were in an area we couldn'tget to and then some obviously
were.
We'll break into that a littlebit later.
But one of the things I noticed, and I've seen it before, but

(04:03):
when I introduced State foresthunters to private land hunting
and you brought it up before Igot a chance to mention it and
you said there's, there's nosign, like there's not much
footprint, there's not much poo.
And you're right, it'sdifferent.
And traditionally I spent a lotof time looking up, looking
around yeah, for deer, but notso much looking down.

(04:25):
And then it wasn't until Istarted podcasting and talking
to you know, state foresthunters who don't have the
private access.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
You guys spend a lot of time focused on sign exactly,
exactly that's what uh, uh,that's what I've kind of
experienced from a purely frommy experience like, uh, you find
sign, like you find all signfine, at least you know that
they're there but then you'relooking for that fresh sign.
And then, once you find thatfresh sign, then I'm starting to

(04:52):
look, you know, more up ratherthan down.
So, yeah, it was a completelydifferent experience for me to
just start off completely withjust looking up and even the I
don't know if I mentioned thisto you even the walking style
you were walking you had a briskwalk yep, and this might
surprise some people, but Ican't walk briskly and you, you

(05:13):
constantly, we were constantlytrying to keep up with you
because you know, uh, you know,in the back of my mind I'm still
tuned to that state forest walk, class walk, yeah, and that and
admittedly, where we werewalking today was quite open too
.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, so I was not.
You know, I'm still I'm doing alot of omar version of glassing
omar sitting down here on theside.
He doesn't use binoculars, hejust sees deer with his bionicle
eyes, but I was doing what hedid and so I do a lot of
scanning and, like I said, I'mlooking for inconsistent shape,
color and movement, and there isonly cattle on this property,

(05:50):
so anything smaller than that,yeah, and horizontal is a high
chance of it being a deer, yeah,so that's very different to
state it is.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
It is, but it's different experience.
I've, uh, I've hunted only once, like I said, uh, in a state,
in a private property, but itwas, it was.
It was.
I didn't, honestly, I wouldn'tsay that I did any of the
hunting, it was just there was afarmer.
He just told us where to go.
We just follow the signs, takeleft, take right, and there'll

(06:19):
be a dam.
Look across.
It showed up, they were there.
So that was my experience ofprivate land hunting.
But and I think I told you thatbefore we started the hunt and
I think you purposely made uswalk through some you know
gullies up and down but yeah,definitely it was a different

(06:39):
experience.
I wouldn't say that it was easy, it was.
A lot of things were still thesame.
You, other than this, lookingfor the sign, you're still
looking for the deer and you'restill looking, you're still
walking, still trying to keep.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
You still got terrain and wind.
Terrain and wind Terrible windthis morning and you're trying
to keep the sound low.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Everything else was similar, but and other than that
, it was just and I wasn't doingmost any of the looking.
It was you and Umar with hisbionic look you know eyes and
stuff I.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
it was kind of a relief to be honest, to sit back
a bit.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
To sit back a bit, just relax, just hold my rifle
and just move on.
Because most of the time I'mwhen I'm hunting in the state
forest, I'm navigating, tryingto record my hunts, I'm trying
to look for sign, I'm trying tolook for deer, so I'm doing a
lot of things.
It is so it can be a bitstressful at times, so, but this
was a bit relaxing experience.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
You look relaxed.
Yeah, you've even taken yourshoes off, of course.
So behind us here we've got thefire going and there's two
pairs of boots drying out.
That got quite wet this morning.
We don't need to name brands.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
But we'll say I'm wearing my lowers and they are
pretty dry.
I haven't taken them off yet.
Yeah, but there's a pile ofwater on here.
You wrung out your socks, orone of you wrung out your socks.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we got pretty wet, yeah, but we are
completely drenched.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
We were gonna record this outside, but I don't know
if you can hear it in the audio.
It's raining out there prettyheavily and we had a lot of rain
this morning and then itstopped for a bit, but the grass
was just soaked.
Soaked, yes, and it was kneeheight in some sense.
Oh, leeches, yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yes, we pulled.
I thought they were only atNundle, because that's the only
place that I have everexperienced leeches and big fat
ones, and I hate them.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
I think I've pulled three off me that were stuck on
and I've probably found 10 justtrying to get on this clothes.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, I think while you were coming in, there were
still some leeches on you, yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
I'll probably find one somewhere when I get home.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
You find your way into the most strangest places
sometimes.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
I want to rewind.
We'll talk about today as itpanned out a bit later.
But you immigrated from India.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
Now Indians, the band hunting, yep, and that was
before your time.
But I want to paint a pictureor imagine how that even happens
for a country, because I feellike it's probably not that far
off that it might trying tohappen here.
Because I feel like it'sprobably not that far off that
it might trying to happen here,like, how does a country succumb
to that?
Or it was it just a okay, we'llback down?

(09:11):
Or do you know much about thehistory of why it was banned?

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Look, it's purely political.
It was purely political becauseat that time, because, because
India is one majority, themajority of Indians are the
religion over there is Hinduism,and most of them are
vegetarians.
So the majority of Indianpopulation is vegetarian and all

(09:38):
the powerful ministers back inthose days and leading to here,
they're all very they, they'reall anti-hunting.
Um, and that's why, althoughindia has a very rich history of
hunting, if you think about it,you know, during the british
rule, india was one of the mostthe prime, primest land in the

(10:00):
world to hunt he used to haveall have all those Maharajas and
all the English Dukes.
They all used to come down tohunt over there.
Different styles of hunting andit's a very rich, diverse
forest.
You have a lot of variety ofdeer species.
You have dangerous animaldangerous species, there are
tiger, leopard.

(10:21):
So it has history.
But then later on it got mixedup with politics.
You know, some few powerfulpeople decided, okay, we're just
going to ban hunting altogether, and then that's that was about
it and that's how I was,although, yes, during my time

(10:42):
hunting was banned, obviously,so we didn't hunt.
But I come from a family ofgenerations who used to hunt.
So it was, if I remember itcorrectly, hunting was banned
back in 1977 or 74.
But then my father, before thathe used to pretty much hunt,

(11:03):
and my father's elder brother,he was a forest officer and
quite a, you know, at a highlevel so, and he used to use my
dad as a, as you know, as ameans of culling deer as well
and where there is problems ofdeer in farmland and stuff like
that.
So he used to use them as a, asa professional color sort of

(11:25):
thing and species of deer overthere so you have.
I'll start with the biggest oneto the smallest one.
So the biggest deer species oractually it's not really a deer
species, it's an antelopespecies.
So I don't know, is there?
I don't know the technicalitiesit's neil, right, it's an
antelope.
Yeah, it's an antelope, yeah,so that's the biggest one.

(11:47):
And then you have the secondone, sambha yeah, they're there.
And then the third one isChitlidir.
Fourth one is there's a thingcalled Chikara, so that's an
Indian gazelle.
It looks exactly like a gazelle, but it's just Indian and

(12:09):
they're small.
And then you have Cho Singa,that's a Hindi word for four
horns.
Cho means four, singa meanshorns, so that's a four horn
deer.
So that's a very there I wouldsay like hot the hog deer, just
the same size as a hog deer.

(12:29):
And then you have a black.
You have black buck over thereas well.
That's the deer species.
And then in the big game youhave, uh, we have Indian Gore,
which is also called bison,g-u-r, g-a-u-r, g-a-u-r, g-a-u-r
.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, so they've got like a Terminator looking hump
on their back.
Exactly Alien versus brand new,literally it looks like white
socks, very similar to ourBantang.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, exactly yeah, but a bit more.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
They have the same curve curve a little bit more
ripped, like they've been at thegym, oh, yeah, they're, they're
.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
They're big like a band-aid on steroids.
Yeah, they're very uh.
There have been stories of them, you know, hitting a truck and
rolling it over stories.
But yeah, they're big, they go.
They can go up to a thousandkilos.
So that's the.
That was the big game back then.
Um, elephants were never hunted.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Sacred, yeah, exactly because of the hinduism,
they're one of the gods.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Elephants were never hunted.
They were too sacred.
Yeah, exactly because of theHinduism they're one of the gods
.
Elephants were never really thetargeted species there.
And then, yeah, that's prettymuch the prey species you can
say.
And then you have the wild catfamily.
You have tiger, leopard,leopard, black panther, and in

(13:46):
the northern parts of india,near the himalayas and stuff,
you have snow leopards overthere as well.
So, yeah, quite a diverse, youknow, species of animal over
there, and even the forestitself.
You walk for like 200 metersand you will see 100 different
types of flora and fauna.
So, yeah, it's a prettybeautiful forest in India.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
What about birds Birding shotgun?

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Birding is not really big in India.
It's more in Pakistan, theother side of the border there.
So yeah, that's pretty bigbecause most of the migrating
birds come through that region.
So it was quite.
It's quite big in pakistan.
Yeah, but india was more forthis the deer species and then
so in australia you've shotchittle yep, samba, yep, fallow

(14:35):
yep.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Is there anything red ?
Yes, I have.
Is that it for the deer?
Yeah, that's it for the deer.
Do you feel slightly more, Iwant to say connected to the
Samba and the Chittle, like, wasthere any like?
Oh, like, this is like what mygrandfather used to hunt.
Have you ever considered that?
It's a different setting?

Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, it's a look.
They look a little differenthere.
I would say that Chittle isdefinitely bigger over here,
probably because of theenvironment and the feed they
have and and whatnot.
Uh, different region, but they,uh, they look, exactly they.
They look they're slightlybigger, but the pattern, the,
the heart and everything is thesame.
But in terms of feeling, yeah,I do get that, especially with

(15:18):
sambar, because, um, in india,sam and and their behaviorism is
the same Because Sambhog, youknow, they're the favorite prey
species for tiger over there,and so they're.
What do you call the way?

(15:40):
They are not getting the word?
What's the word for cagey?
Right?
yeah, yeah, they're on edgethey're always on the edge and
you know they are, you knowthey're always alert and they're
done.
And it's true, they're hard oneof the hardest issues to hunt.
So they're very shy animal ingeneral.
Even in india it was, you knowyou had to go in the deepest

(16:02):
part of the forest to actuallysee them.
So yeah, I mean it's not.
Look, I never hunted in Indiaso I don't exactly have that
full connection that you'resaying.
But yeah, I mean it feels niceto you know, have a species that
you know my.
Now that you tell me it kind offeels like that.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah, you hadn't considered it.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
I never considered that.
But my father, yeah, I grew uplistening to.
Although I never hunted inIndia, I grew up listening to
stories from my dad.
You know about how he used tohunt, how his father used to
hunt, you know, and theirfavorite was always cheetledeer
and you know they're like 200,250, cheetledeer and you know

(16:47):
they're like 200, 250, uhcheetledeer in a herd.
They've seen that, they haveseen.
So, yeah, now that I did youtell me about.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
It kind of feels special I have a theory about
samba, and I haven't spokenabout it too loud because it's a
crazy one, but you say thattheir main predator is tigers.
Tigers, yeah.
What's their color?
What color is a tiger?
Orange, black, orange and black?
What color do you have to wearwhen you're in?

Speaker 1 (17:12):
public land.
Oh, okay, yeah, true.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, I have a theory that they possibly might see
orange slightly more on thealert spectrum.
I'm not saying they see orange.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
That doesn't really help us state forest hunters.
No, no, I'm not saying they seeorange.
That doesn't really help usstate forest hunters.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
No, no, I'm pointing that out to you, but I've just
and I've never had anyone proveor deny or, like I said, I
haven't mentioned it, but it'sjust a little internal theory
where I understand.
They might not see orange, butthey might notice that color of
gray means danger.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
If they see it in shades of gray.
No, I've never thought about it, but yeah that's a good point,
because they're well, other thanchittle, I suppose, the only
ones that are hunted by tigers,yeah, traditionally
traditionally yes and I knowthey're well removed now and
things, but they still have thatinstinct.
They have a lot of instinctsthey're born with of course it's
in their genetics, so it staysand you mentioned to me today

(18:03):
that Sambar are probably yourfavorite to chase.
Well, they have been so far.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
So far, yes, like we've quite recently, have been
chasing more of Sambar thanFallows or Reds, because, since
I live in Brisbane, so thenearest forest to me, the
productive forest to me, areNundle and Hanging Rocks, which
hold a good number of Reds andFallows, so I wouldn't say I've

(18:27):
shot many, but I've shot few.
Enough to you know, for me, toyou know, focus my attention
towards you know, a bit morechallenge, you know, in terms of
chasing them.
So, yes, amber, are currentlyon top of my list and it's
exciting to, it's just reallyexciting to just chase them
because they're so sharp, bloodysharp, because fallow in a, in

(18:54):
a state forest setting, I thinkI I heard in one of your
podcasts that you mentionedabout they have their circle of
influence, correct?

Speaker 2 (19:02):
yeah, that's the word fallows have in state forest.
They have their circle ofinfluence, correct?

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, that's the word Fallows have in state forests.
They have a circle of influenceof about 150 meters maybe, but
approximately 100, 200, 250meters, depending on
circumstances.
But then Sambo, on the otherhand, I think they are, it's 300
meters, 200, 250, 300 metersbecause they're big ears.

(19:26):
They do their job for whatthey're meant for, because I've
stepped on a small twig and hada samba honking at me at about
300 meters, which is insane ifyou think about it.
Wind's perfect, everything'sperfect.
So it couldn't have been thewind, it's definitely the twig
sound that, you know, alarmedher and then honked at me and

(19:49):
then just bolted away in justfew seconds.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
And we saw that today with when we ended up down the
bottom on that little herd andthey were, I think, I said, 55
or 65 meters from us, yep, andwe'll break it down a bit more,
but the one you shot was 66, Ithink, but they were not really
alert to our presence or not tothe point where they weren't
running.
So that circle influence onprivate land is closer because

(20:15):
they're used to farmers,vehicles, cattle, you know,
there's a little bit morehappening.
So, yeah, it's interesting tohear you say that Sambra's a lot
wider.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Oh, definitely, definitely.
I mean, I have a high level ofrespect for them as well because
the way they're a big bodiedanimal, right, so you would
think when they move they wouldmake a lot of noise right in the
bush.
I have a story about this.

(20:45):
I was at one of the stateforest in South Coast and we had
spotted a sambar about 700meters away.
We were just glassing the areaand we spotted a sambar.
She came out of a tree line,just followed the tree line for
about 40, 50 meters and justwent in.
So I spotted that area and Iand I said, okay, let's come

(21:09):
back in the evening and maybesit over there.
She might come out of, come outof there.
So we went back and, uh,obviously things look really
different.
You know, when you're lookingthrough your binoculars and when
you're actually dead thingslook really different.
Like where the hell was this?
So we tried to.
It was me and my mate.
So we there was a creek flowing, a river actually flowing.

(21:33):
So I'm my mate sat on on oneside of the river and I and I
followed the river line about100, 150 meters.
So in case if anything comesfrom either direction, you know
we both have the wind wasblowing on our face at that time
, so anything about 100, 150meters, so in case if anything
comes from either direction.
You know we both have the windwas blowing on our face at that

(21:54):
time, so anything coming fromthe side we could have still
caught it.
So I was sitting there next tothe just right next to the river
.
I had a hundred meter viewalong the river and anything
that crosses I can see it rightand sitting there for about half
an hour and then there's akangaroo that just comes out,
hops out and you know we need.
I'm not a sit and wait personmuch.

(22:15):
I like to walk in stock.
I get restless.
So I was just bored and I wasjust recording the kangaroo and
he was.
He came about 20 meters awayfrom me and he's doing his thing
.
He's just eating nicely, has noidea.
It was really cold.
I had my hoodie on, with mygaiters on, so I was nicely

(22:35):
camouflaged and he was doing hisown thing.
I was just recording and then Ijust heard a small snap.
You know behind me, youobviously you know when you're
focused on one thing and thensuddenly something's behind you.
You get it scares you like whatthe hell is behind me.

(22:57):
So I got scared and I just heldmy rifle on.
It was on my right hand sideyeah, I was facing that way and
it was on my right hand side andI just turned and there was a
sambar standing on literally ontop of me, at about five meters
away.
Wow, literally five meters away.
And she's looking down on melike this.

(23:18):
How did you feel scared?
She honked and, and, and youcan hear them from about 300
meters away.
When they honked Sounds like afreight train horn at a level
crossing.
Oh, it literally blew my earsaway and then scared the shit
out of me and then just ran intothe thick bush.

(23:39):
You did or she did.
The point I'm trying to make isshe came through one of the
gnarliest stuff, right she?

Speaker 2 (23:49):
didn't take the easy route.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
She didn't take the easy route right and she did not
make a single sound until she'sright on you yeah, that's the
beauty about it.
They're so big, there's suchbig bodied animals and they can
move such stealthily throughthat gnarly stuff.
It's just amazing.
That's when I got hooked on toSambar.
You know, this is what I'mafter.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Get stealth to the next level.
Exactly Similar situation,different animal it was a moose
and it was.
We were calling like we weredoing, but facing that way, and
I was a little bit naive andthinking about it too much.
But again, one had appearednext to us at 10 meters, no
noise, and these things have gothuge five foot antlers and we

(24:36):
can't walk through the brushwithout our backpacks making
noise.
How did they and they're justyou know tilt their head and he
looked at us and they tilt theirhead and he looked and then he
just kept walking, cause we werein an area, it was public land,
it's.
Canada, so it's a bit different,but no pressure, yeah, so we
weren't really again, we had thewind in our face and what he

(24:58):
did sent us later.
But he went down the bottom andthen sat and a hundred meters
broadside for about 10 minutes.
I regret I don't know where thefootage has gone.
I've lost the memory card orwhatnot.
But it wasn't legal so I haveto have a certain amount of
points to be legal.
And the hunter and I sat thereand we're like what can we do to

(25:19):
its antlers to make it legal?
Like what can we file off?
What can we fix this?
And I didn't shoot.
It got some great footage andthat client returned the
following year and shot a bigone.
But it was the sound like yousaid, it was just silence.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah, nothing, I would assume.
For a fallow, which is alighter animal, yeah, I would
understand them not making anoise, but she was full-size
hind right so you would assumethat they would have made.
She would have made some oneson black, but then she just

(25:55):
bolted away and then just amemory, like definitely that's a
one of the.
That's the point.
When I got hooked because thatwas the first time I I went to a
state forest to chase samberand then six since then I've
just been obsessed with them,and how many of you harvested um
or been there while someoneelse harvested About six.
All five hines and then the lastone that I went to.
I got a stag on that, my firststag.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Hell of a stag.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you, look, I neveractively looked for a stag, I'm
more of a meat hunter, so I takewhatever I get but at the end
of the a stag.
I'm more of a meat hunter, so Itake whatever I get, but at the
end of the day, stag is a stag.
Excitement level is definitelythrough the roof.
But then this particular guythat I was chasing and we had

(26:44):
you had some history with him.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, two months ofhistory.
The first time we spotted himhe was still in velvet and we we
knew it was him because he hada big scar on right under his
shoulder.
So we knew exactly who you know, this tag, who this, who he was
did you not have an opportunityor you?

(27:06):
yeah.
So the first time we spottedhim it was when we were
returning back from the hunt inthe afternoon session.
It was night.
We were going back to the campand he was standing in the
middle of the road, not spookedat all, 20 meters away, just
standing there for about fiveminutes just in the lights, and

(27:26):
then we literally had to get offthe car and just say shoo, and
then that's when he buggered offinto back into the state forest
and that's when we just notedwhere, which way, he went, and
that was luckily um hunting zone, the green zone.
So the next day we came back tothat area and started scouting

(27:47):
and scouting it hard and thenstarted finding some sign of his
like some um rob crees andstuff like that.
So we did that for a couple oftrips.
You know, for for almost amonth we hunted that scattered
that area but never saw himagain.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
How often were you flying back down?
Um because it's not a just adrive yeah, no, no, I fly.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
Oh, yeah, I'm, yeah, I, I was crazy back when I
started hunting, but then nowit's just just a drive for you.
Yeah, no, no, I fly off.
Yeah, I was crazy back when Istarted hunting, but then now
it's just trying to be practical.
But now, yeah, I just fly downto Canberra every two to three
weeks and then I have my matewho lives there.
It's just two hours away fromhim, so it's more convenient
that way.

(28:27):
No gear, nothing, just get mybackpack and stuff.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
That's it so you got a glimpse yeah you tracked
roughly where he was.
You found some sign yeah didyou get another glimpse?

Speaker 1 (28:38):
yep, uh, the other glimpse.
Again, it was in the night.
Uh, we were heading back again,but this time we were heading
back home.
Um, that's when we spotted him.
Uh, we were taking a turn, andsometimes what happens is when
you take, when you're goingthrough those clear cuts, you're
taking a wide turn and thelight goes, your spotties go all

(29:02):
it covered the whole ground andhe was literally, he was with
the hind, he was literally rightnext to the road, standing over
there, and then we just stoppedthere and then took the biners
out and then checked, checked itout.
It was the same stack, but thistime he was in heart antler.
So I said probably he'snocturnal.

(29:23):
Uh, you know, because obviouslyhe's, he's gotten that big
because he's smart, he's notgetting out in the open during
the day.
And I think I read it somewherethat Sambar have a radius of
about five kilometers and theycan be anywhere within that.
So that's the second glimpsethat I got, and then we had

(29:46):
forgotten about it.
We were just doing our ownthing.
You know, the last trip that Iwent to, we were just scouting
new areas, hunting new new zone,new hunting blocks, and then
the last session.
You just don't know what I mean.
Sometimes, you know, you justget that gut feeling.

(30:07):
You can say that let's just goback to that area and let's just
sit where we saw him.
The second time we're comingout, let's just sit there.
If not him, something elsemight come out, but let's just
try.
And then, uh, we went thereabout 45, about one hour before
sunset, and just set ourselvesup and then the wind was.

(30:29):
It was coming from the westtowards the northwest, towards
southeast direction, so it was abit cross and we were glassing
that area.
So and about for about 45minutes we were just glassing
the area for where we thoughtthat he might pop out from.
But then, for some reason,reason and I was fasting, we

(30:52):
were both my mate and I, we wereboth fasting at that time and
it was time for us to.
It's a funny story.
It was time for us to break ourfast, because right at dawn you
break up, you break our fastand you know what happens when
you're fasting the whole day andyou're drawn drinking water, no
, no, food, nothing.
Your brain starts playing,hallucinating stuff and we were

(31:14):
not feeling it.
We were just tired, we werelethargic.
We spent two days not foundanything.
My mate shot a pig, but thennothing else other than that, so
we were just just not in.
He was about 15 meters awayfrom me, he was sitting, he was

(31:34):
glassing, and then it was timeto break our fast and then I had
the the dates with me and, uh,he forgot to keep his.
So I I ate one and I threw onethere, and then I didn't have
water on me because we didn'tneed water, because we were

(31:56):
hiking the whole day.
He had water, so he's throwingthe water bottle at me and we
were playing like this and youwould think, right, like you're
just.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Making noise.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
Yeah, we're making noise and then creating all
sorts of ruckus.
We were just, you, nearly givenup, given up, yeah, and that's
what happened.
And then, for some reason, Idon't, and because I was
throwing stuff at him, so I hadto turn towards him and do that.
And so I just looked towards myleft, on my back, because the

(32:26):
wind was doing that, so it was,this area was still clear.
Towards my left, on my back,because the wind was doing that,
so it was, this area was stillclear.
And I see him coming, crossingthe road, the main road, uh, and
then I I tell my, my, my friend, I'm just trying to show it

(32:48):
would point him towards that.
He, he's just where, where hemeans it was quite a, it was, uh
, it was a clear-cut area with alot of blackberry in it.
So we were sitting in a veryawkward position trying to save
ourselves from the blackberry.
So he couldn't and it was verycrunchy.
So we were not able to movemuch and I did not have my rifle
on me.
It was not even my turn toshoot.
He had the rifle with him and Iwas trying to point it at him,

(33:10):
uh, and he, he's not, he's, hewasn't getting it.
He, we, I was recording it andthen spent like three minutes
and and that that guy that thatstack was, he was.
I could see that he was nervous,right.
Uh, he, he wasn't completely.
He was not just great browsingor grazing and just moving along

(33:31):
.
He constantly kept lookingtowards us Because the thing was
we were sitting on the top sideof the valley and it was coming
down and he was crossing theroad where there was a creek, a
dry bed, so probably he was notable to see us.
But then he might have feltthere's something wrong because

(33:54):
of the way he was moving.
And then I said, okay, this isgetting too much, because the
closer he was getting, thebigger he was getting.
But I first thought he was justa spiker or something, you know
, when I saw him at about 200meters and then he started
coming close and he startedgetting bigger and bigger.
I said oh, man.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Did you consider it might have been the same stag at
that point?

Speaker 1 (34:13):
No not at all.
I did not know it until I sawhim.
You went up on him.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I crawled my way to myfriend and then I just told him
pass me the rifle, pass me therifle.
And he's like the mistake thatI did was I told him it was a
stag and he was like oh, can Ishoot please?

(34:33):
I can't see it.
Just tell me where it is.
I'm like I've been telling youfor the last four minutes you
can't see.
It's now or never.
And he was nervous, the similarway to you know the dog that we
shot today.
He was upright and he was aboutto bolt.
I said it's now or never.

(34:54):
So he just gave me the rifle.
And then I because if I waslying down I had no view, even
prone no view.
So I had to stand up and take afreehand shot.
There was no tree.
It was a clear cut how far I'mreally bad at judging the
distance stand up and take afreehand shot.
There was no tree.
It was a clear cut how farReally bad at judging the

(35:14):
distance.
But I would say under 150meters, 120 to 150 meters, it's
usually a shot that I don't take, but at that point of time it's
a big target too.
It's a big target.
Yes, exactly, but that time Idid not have a choice.
I had to take a call and then,you know, took the first shot,

(35:35):
felt good because you could see,when the shot landed on him
there was burst of mud, dustcoming off him, which was quite
apparent.
That, yeah, I got him.
And then he went about forabout 60 meters and he was he
still had good visuals on him.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, clear, veryclear.

(35:56):
It was all open.
So, and then I took the secondshot and that was the proper.
It landed straight in its heart, didn't go more than 50 meters,
it just rolled up.
And when I went close to him,and even at that point we did
not know how big he was, and andthat's the beauty of these, uh,

(36:16):
samba deer and many of thesebig beers, is you really don't
know how big they are when youactually, until you actually get
close to them, they're big.
And when I I got close to them,we saw the same mark on the
shoulder and it was the happiestday, happiest day for me, and I
literally cried next to it.

(36:37):
I didn't put it on the video,but I literally had tears.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
Get that video on the Patreon version.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
I literally had tears in my eyes when know it's, it's
, it's such a beautiful thing.
You, yeah, you're, you'retaking a life, but at the same
time there's a purpose for it.
You know that right.
So it was quite special for mebecause I had been chasing him
for a while.
It was not just out of the blue, and then he did turn up out.

(37:09):
He just come up out of the blue, no doubt about it, but just
finally getting him.
And then you know, uh, then see, looking at him, I sat there,
we didn't, because it wasgetting dark, so we decided not
to, because I wanted to keep the, keep the shoulder mount and
and, and I didn't want to messit up.

(37:30):
It, do it in the night, try to,you know, process it.
So we left it, for the nightwas quite a cool night.
So we came back in the morningand, you know, sat next to it
and cherish the moment you cansay, and my a bit, and then took
some pictures and then he's gota cape done and it's currently
sitting with the taxidermist andit's just a waiting time now.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Is that your first caping job?
Yeah, tough one to start on.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Luckily we had coverage there.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
So we went on.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
YouTube, and then we started looking at different
video, different versions of theone, the easiest one that we
could understand.
We just followed the steps, wetook our time.
Obviously, we're notprofessionals, so we took our
time.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
You had plenty of time too, yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
It took us about two and a half hours to do that.
I'm sure a person who knowswhat he's doing he would do it
in pretty much an hour or so butthat's actually quite quick, I
mean, is it?
Well, maybe because we were twopeople, I guess yeah but for a
first time, that's and he wasbig.
You're trying to roll it wouldhave been easier if he was
hanging up, but you know, tryingto roll him over on all the

(38:45):
sides, uh and so I'm sure yougutted him out and carried him
out whole no oh yeah, I, I triedto do that, but this time this
year, he was just too big to dothat.
So we, we took as much as wecould.
Uh, we couldn't take the frontportion much because we were
trying to keep it and a lot, of,a lot of dirt got into it.
So the back portion wascomplete the back straps, the

(39:07):
back portion, everything wasgood enough to a lot of weight
still that's still.
He was easy over 300 kilos.
Easy, if not less.
Uh, easy.
So that's.
There was a lot of meat on himand it was.
He was not the taxidermist I'mnot.
I'm not a professional, I'm notexperienced enough to judge but
the taxidermist, when he saw ithe said, mate, if you would

(39:27):
have let him go, he's a trophyhunter he was.
He was saying, oh, youshouldn't let him go because if
you would have let him go andshot him the next year he would
have been 32 plus.
I said this is public landyou're talking about.
Yeah, next year I probablywouldn't have seen him.
This is the biggest tag thatI've seen in my life I wouldn't,
did he go 30?
well, not quite he was 28 and ahalf.

(39:47):
That, that's in my dictionary.
He's big enough.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
I've never shot it.
Sorry, I'm going to my leg here.
I feel like I'm gonna leech Go,I do.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
Here he is.
You can feel them crawling.
Got him mate he's.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Where is he there?

Speaker 1 (40:03):
he is, oh yeah he's dead.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Oh, he's not dead, he's full.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
He's dead?
No, he's not dead, he's full,he's full, he's left you.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yes, so if you can see that on the camera, yeah,
he's still in the photo.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's one of the best
experiences of my life.
You can say it's still fresh,it's not very old.
Just about three weeks ago now,mm-hmm yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Beautiful.
You'll live off that one for awhile.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Oh, yes, definitely, and I, it's gonna stick with me
definitely for a while.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yeah, but it keeps the bug going, the Sambra bug.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
It means now it's my.
I feel obligated now because Itook the rifle away from the
poor guy.
I feel obligated now because Itook the rifle away from the
poor guy.
I feel obligated now, uh, toyou know, uh, get him a stag as
well.
But then I think you know thisis one thing that I, a very wise
person, once told me that don'tstress about getting a stag,

(41:04):
you know it will come, time willcome, he will turn up someday.
Just do your thing, keep doingthe basics consistently, and
then he will come to you.
Don't worry about it, just havefun, just go out there, just do
your own thing, even if you'regetting high, you're getting
better at it, improve yourskills and then they will come

(41:24):
to you eventually.
So, and it worked, and itworked exactly so, and that's
exactly what I'm doing now.
It's not like, oh, I've shot astag and I'm done, but I'm not
actively looking for them.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Tick that one off and move past it.
Move past it.
With the red you shot.
Was it a stag or a hind?

Speaker 1 (41:44):
No, no, they were all hinds.
I've shot a spiker, a couple ofspikers, but yeah, none of them
were trophy size you can say Ishot a red in Nandu, yeah, cool.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
I put a post up about it and I said that the fact
that I shot it was not important.
What annoyed everyone was thatI said where I shot it, yeah,
and I was like but it's none atall like hunters campfire have
whole podcasts related toshooting like they have.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
It's no secret that there's deer in this, or there
were 40 50 people coming rightnow, right now so there's, I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
It's a weird.
I don't quite understand itbecause I'm not in the state
forest side of thing.
I didn't quite realize what Iwas doing by saying that and it
definitely ruffled some feathers.
Look, I feel with all honestyPennsylvania is going to book
out now, it still gets.
That's what everyone said.
That was the comment.
I put it up and I said Nundleand everyone's like oh, Nundle

(42:45):
is going to book out now.
I'm like everyone knows nanduand everyone's like oh, nandu is
going to book out now.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
I'm like everyone knows everyone.
Yeah, everyone's always bookedout look means uh I understand I
understand the sentiment,because it takes hard work for
people to, but the point is, Ifeel, in my humble opinion and
without any offense it's it'sit's a bit hypocritical to, you
know, say on one hand, that wewant to promote hunting, right,

(43:13):
and we want to get more huntersgetting out there, and on the
other hand, you're being sosecretive about sharing.
Not, look, I'm, I'm the one I'm, I don't sit on the fence, but
I'm on the side where I don't.
I don't share my gpscoordinates, but I'm on the side
where I don't share my GPScoordinates, sure, but I would
say a general area.
I would tell people you knowhow to find a deer habitat,

(43:36):
where could they be hangingaround?
What would they be eating?
You know what to look for.
And then you go into the hardyards Hiding a state forest and
saying, oh, they're not, it's,everyone knows it.
There's no point.
It's just counterintuitive inmy opinion.
Uh, but yeah, it uh.
I do get a lot of uh and andthis has happened in my recent

(43:59):
video as well that I hunted inwhen I hunted at nandu.
So I kind of mapped out myapproach to a particular block.
So I got the Google image andthen I started drawing some
lines as to where I'm going tosit and at what time, or where I
know the deer were feeding andat what time they might be

(44:21):
coming.
And this is all based on myresearch right experience.
It's not guaranteed that thedeer are going to be there.
I am devising a plan, I'm goingwith my instincts, I'm doing my
homework and I'm going thereand I'm sitting.
It's no guarantee that the deerwill come from there.
So I share that and I got quitea bit of a lash back, uh from,

(44:45):
uh, from people saying where'sthe hunting spirit of you know,
just doing your thing and youknow, and all of that.
There are a lot of positivepeople who you know appreciate
I'm trying to help people.
It's like if I wanted to enjoyhunting, I would have done that.
I wouldn't have recordednothing.

(45:07):
But what really makes me happybecause I have done that and I
have done that, I wouldn't haverecorded nothing.
But what really makes me happybecause I have done that and I
have seen that, I've felt thatpersonally is that when I have
taken new hunters to a stateforest and they have been
hunting for over two years andthey have never seen deer, and
when they lay their eyes on thedeer and their eyes just light
up, they get so happy, even ifthey don't shoot.

(45:30):
And that's what happened withthat friend of mine when we
spotted that stag, that fellowbuck, he was so excited.
He has been hunting stateforest for over two and a half
years.
Never found success.
Seen some deer running whilehe's drying out never found
success.
Seen some deer running, youknow, while he's drying out.
But then that really thatreally makes me happy, right,

(45:56):
and that's the reason I try tohelp people and show them my
plan.
It's not that I'm sharing myspots.
Go and shoot there, even if Itrust me, even if we share spots
with people, if you're notdoing the right thing, because
there are a lot of things in thestate forest that needs to go
right, the spot's only one ofthe factors.
Yeah, it's just one, and I thinkit's the minimal factor,

(46:18):
because there's a lot of thingsworking against you in the state
forest.
So even if I hand out freespots over the internet, it's
going to be the same.
It's's going to be the same,it's not going to make us?

Speaker 2 (46:31):
it's not going to make any bit of difference.
Yeah, it's a trippy top, trickytopic.
Yep, and, like I said, I'm notfully up to date with the
nuances of it because I don'tfocus on the the state forest
things we're going to make quitea few people angry with this
conversation we're gonna.
We're gonna name what.
We're gonna name it over the onthe wrong side of the fence
hunting on the wrong side of thefence Hunting on the wrong side
of the fence.
That's going to be the clickbait, but what we're referring

(46:52):
to is, you know, he spent hiscareer hunting on the state
forest and looking over intoprivate.
And then today, the majority ofthe deer we saw were even
though we're on private, we'reon private next door, they're on
the wrong side of the fence.
Everything's always on thewrong side of the fence.
Yeah, true, so you've had asubstantial amount of success

(47:12):
increasing recently.
Obviously, you had a bit of aslower start and then and then
increasing.
Yep, I wanted to, uh, somefaith-based questions.
I'm a pretty faith-based personand comes up pretty regularly
in the podcast, but obviously,you know, follow islam.
You're a muslim.
Yep, I've been wanting to havesomeone on and ask the questions
about how.

(47:33):
I even asked omar.
I said how come you didn't getthe beef pie where it was?
A cafe, where we are?
And he said I weren't surewhether it was halal meat.
So then I my question to you ishow does hunting cross over
into that?
Um, what steps do you guys take?
What's what's different to howyou've seen other people look?

Speaker 1 (47:55):
um, halal is a the misconception that I have felt.
That is there in the westerncountries.
That is there in the westerncountries.
They think that halal is justlimited to processing of the

(48:19):
mean.
Halal has a much deeper meaningto it.
It starts all the way from howyou even got the money to to
hunt that, if that makes sense.
So you earn halal way hal.
Basically, what halal means ispermissible.
Non-halal means not permissible.
Haram that's an Arabictranslation.
So I have earned my money in ahalal way.

(48:40):
I paid my dues in a halal way.
I bought my gear in a halal way.
I'm following the state foresthunting rules in a halal way.
Right, I'm following the stateforest hunting rules in a halal
way.
I'm not hunting on exclusionzones, I'm not spotlighting.
So a combination of all of thisis halal hunting.

(49:01):
It's not just going thereinsulating the throat and get
into the argument about drainthe blood, don't drain the blood
and all of that stuff.
Halal hunting starts from theorigin.
How you even got to that point?
So and obviously, yes, I'm notsaying that the beef pie it did

(49:23):
not come on that counter in ahalal way.
It's not been.
It's part of it.
The slaughtering of the animalis part of halal hunting, but
then it makes up a big part ofit that it needs to be
slaughtered.
In a certain way.
There are differences inopinion about facing it in the

(49:45):
direction of the Kaaba, which istowards the west, which is the
holy place in our faith, andthere are certain procedures.
You close the eyes.
Different people have differentopinions.
But that, but the at the end ofthe day, the important thing is
you slit the throat and whileyou're doing that, you're saying

(50:06):
Bismillah Allahu Akbar.
So you say that, can you say'resaying Bismillah Allahu Akbar?
So yes, you said it case I wasBismillah Allahu Akbar.
So Bismillah is in the name ofGod and Allah work, but is God
is great.
You say the prayer and you slitit and and you do it in the most
yeah, you can say that it's notyou still at the end of the day

(50:26):
killing its, do, but do it inthe most humane way.
So you, you're, you're still atthe end of the day killing it,
but do it in the most humane way.
So you're taking a shot andthen you try to go to that
animal as soon as you will, tryto reach them as soon as
possible.
Sometimes there are, you knowthere are exceptions, where you
hunt with a bow or you injuredan animal and you didn't find

(50:48):
them.
So, yeah, so even for that youhave flexibilities, like when
you're putting your cartridgesin your magazine, you pray
Bismillah, allahu Akbar, and youshoot it.
So you have the intention, soyou have flexibilities to that
as well.
So, yeah, it has a broadermeaning to it, but we are quite
particular about it.

(51:09):
So, um, we don't consume, and asimilar thing in in jewism as
well.
So they have kosher, kosher,kosher meat.
So they are particular aboutthey have their own uh set of
ways.
So these are all.
So, without getting into toomuch detail of I mean uh, so you

(51:30):
have all the three abraham,abrahamic religions that stem
out from the same place, so youhave similar um practices.
You can say and yeah, so we arequite particular about that.
So it has to be.
And I've actually done a podcastwith the hunter campfire boys.

(51:51):
We did a very thorough and ifanyone's interested in that, you
know they can watch it on thehunters campfire that we walked
through the whole.
And my brother is a bit more.
He's a learned person, he's a,he's an imam, so he's basically,
he has a lot of knowledge, youknow which go which, where he

(52:14):
links all of this to theauthentic history behind it and
scientific reasons as well.
So, yeah, there's a lot of moreinformation on this, but yeah,
that's pretty much an overviewof what we believe.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
So today we might as well talk about that hunt and
what happened, because we'lltalk about the hunt and we'll
talk about how it worked.
But then you shot one and wedidn't slit the throat.
So I wanna ask you about thatwhen we get to that.
But I appreciate your views onthose things.
It's like I'm always interestedin learning about that.
So we'll circle back to thatwhen we, if we talk about that

(52:52):
part, we'll skip the whole hunt.
But today we met up early.
It was 5.30, I think.
Yeah, we met up and I wasconcerned, wet and drizzly.
I was concerned about the fog.
I had fog here recently, yeah,you did mention that.
And that just ruins everythinguntil about 8 o'clock when it

(53:14):
finally lifts.
But today we had rain, which isbetter, surprisingly, and that
was the first time we met.
But we geared up at the truck,we had a bit of a chat and then
we headed out and, to be honest,I was disappointed we didn't
see anything quicker, becauseI'm sort of used to that on this
place.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
I'm still convinced you did that on purpose.
It took you the long way.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
There was a point when we're down the bottom of
that creek and I said I like no,I think I can hear croaking,
yeah, and Omar picked it up tooand we just like something.
But it wasn't solid enough andthere was wind and yeah, so we
kept moving and we had the windwas terrible for us.
It was at our back, so that'swhy I dropped down.
We circled up and around and wetook a few glassing

(53:54):
opportunities, which is mostlyjust to get his breath back.
Wasn't used to my fast pacedbrisk walking, my private land
walking.
But then he spotted at onepoint.
He was like anyway, it turnedout it was a wallaby, but that
was a prior with his nobinoculars.

(54:15):
We moved along, we found someon the other side of the face,
and that's when we sort of heardthe croak yeah.
And that was I asked you beforewe recorded.
I said what was your favoritepart, and you said that.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
It was exciting and I your favorite part and you said
that ah, it was.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
It was exciting and I don't think he was far away,
although he was on the otherside of the fence.
Uh, we were talking, so thoseones we could see were 345 and
he was less.
Yeah, so 250 to 300.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
it was very clear, you know.
But as soon as I got my, mycamera to at least record it,
it's, it's croaking.
He was keeping quiet.
He was just croaking for likethree seconds, maybe three, four
seconds, and then, uh, quiet,so what?

Speaker 2 (54:52):
you can even do is you can edit the audio in.

Speaker 1 (54:58):
But then, but then, even those three, four seconds,
I just felt something in mystomach.
You know, yeah, it's justpraying to God that you know,
just do it once more, do it oncemore.
Just wanted to keep on hearingthat over and over again because
it was such a surreal feeling,because I've never experienced
that before it creates adifferent way to hunt them too

(55:22):
yeah because you're hunting themvocally.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
You're like, oh, there they are.
Yeah, I can't see them, butI'll head down there it's not
like like it's mainly.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
I would have probably heard croaking, I would have
experienced it before, but whathappens is the rut season, which
is like the prime time of theyear to hunt these bugs, falls
right at the time of Ramadan,and then usually we don't hunt
during that period, but thenbecause it's hard to do so

(55:55):
without drinking water exactly.
But then this year, I don't know, it's just, I was just being
restless, you can say, and Ijust wanted to get out.
I was going through stuff at,at, at work, at my workplace,
and even even this, this tagthat I shot, like I didn't even
want to go to that trip I was.
I was really, you know, therewas some messed up stuff going

(56:16):
on in my work, at my work, andso I just my wife said, just go,
just go.
And you know, just, uh, chillout.
And then, you know, come backfresh and then we'll deal with
it.
So we don't usually hunt duringthat, because it's a month of
sacrificing things that you loveand you just devote all your
time in prayers and the rutseason falls right back in the

(56:42):
middle of Ramadan.
But then, inshallah, next yearprobably we're going to get the
rut because the Ramadan monthkeeps on, because it's related
to the moon, so it shifts byabout 15, 20 days every year.
So next year hopefully we'regoing to be right, you know,

(57:03):
perfect, bang on time, andhopefully next year I'm going to
try and, you know, get thatexperience again.
I've been a lot colder.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
That was just a taste today, yeah it was just a
teaser.
It was a morsel.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
I'm hooked now.
I'm probably hooked now.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
Before we heard it today we saw there was a spike
with three does, yeah, and thenwe moved forward a little bit
further and then we heard it andI said, oh, like, I don't think
that's, I'm pretty sure that'snot him croaking.
It sounded slightly more mature, yep, didn't sound like
essentially a two-year-oldcroaking.
And then we, you know,continued hunting and it was

(57:43):
very hard to explain to you anda little bit hard to do but to
walk away from that croak.
Yeah, hard to explain to youand very, a little bit hard to
do but to walk away from thatcroak, yeah, yeah, because in
your brains you're like, why ishe going that way?
But there was one section Iwanted to check out, because if
we didn't check it out and wewent down and then I would have
wanted to go back up there andit would have been gaining
elevation again.
So anyway, we went back aroundand then we eased ourselves

(58:04):
around a corner, knowing thatthose deer were in this area and
sure enough they were quiteclose 70 or so, yeah and then we
moved in a bit closer and againit was just this little spike
with uh, three or four does andthey were on, they knew
something was up, but we werelike 60 meters away and they
moved away and I gave them somecalls and they looked and turned

(58:26):
back but they weren't yeah,they weren't interested.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
They were like ah, that's not.
They were like ah, that's notreal.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
We know that's he's faking that, yeah.
So then we moved further aroundand continued along this track
and I spotted them.
I was in front and I just likeI can't remember if I said
anything.
I just put my hand out orclicked or something and like
stopped and everyone stopped andI could just see one doe at
that time.
But then, yeah, you tell it howyou saw it from your angle.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
Yeah, so as soon as you, I was you were quite close
or yeah, it was quite close.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
I didn't look back.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Like always, I was looking down for sign, you know,
and then suddenly I hear youclick, and then I stopped and
then I saw a doe one doe comingdown, and then one more came
down and I think you asked mewhat do you wanna do?

(59:20):
I said, yeah, I'll take it.
And then there was a tree rightbehind me, on my left hand side
, and then I got, because it wasa step up Elevated.
Elevated slightly up so I wasgetting a better shot.
And then there was a third doewho came in and she was looking

(59:41):
straight she saw, she looked asyou were moving behind the tree,
just casually.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
But then she saw you appear between the trees, yeah,
and she was like, ah, I don't abranch, yeah that's uh.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Yes, what's this thing sticking out of the branch
is's something, something wronghere shiny skin and so uh, and
then yeah, I mean.
So I was like, do I shoot or doI not?

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
because I really wanted to get a buck uh, the
conversation was so I wasstanding next to him and I said
they're looking at us yeah yeah,what do you want to do?
Yeah, I said I don't mind ifyou shoot one, that's fine.
It's not on camera, cause Iknew Omar was trying to film it.
but he was a little bit furtherbehind and this doe was looking
at us.
So if I motioned to him to comeforward they would have all run

(01:00:28):
.
And I just cause we spokebefore the hunt.
I said what's more importanthere, trying to, you know,
secure some footage.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
and you said footage, but then, in the heat of the
moment, he really wanted toshoot one but and I just said,
it doesn't matter which one youshoot, yeah, but honestly I
thought umar was getting half ofbecause I maybe at least half
of the deer and I was happy withthat, but later on we found out
that he wasn't getting anyreasons from where he was

(01:00:56):
standing and you'll see it inthe footage, but he could see
the two that were just in frontof her, but not the one that we
were looking at, correct?

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
um?
So you'll see if you do see thefootage when the video comes
out.
There's a shot that's taken,yep, but the two, the deer that
you see aren't the ones we'reshooting, and it's actually just
slightly around the tree line alittle bit further yeah,
cameraman, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
And then, well, we took the shot and then, um, she
just fumbled around for a bitand then, probably just five
meters, she rolled up and then,while we were walking towards it
, the most gut-wrenching thingis there's a bug appearing from
the back.
I was like why the hell did Iwait?
But, like you said, probably ifwe would have waited she would

(01:01:39):
have ran and the whole herdwould have ran.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
And they were right on that crossover between our
block and the other block,exactly All they had to do was
go uphill and they wereuntouchable.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Yeah, they were untouchable.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
Which is exactly where they went.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Yeah, at the end of the day, yes, they were croaking
tick, saw a buck tick.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
I didn't you know other than the state forest buck
that I told you about you know,even looking at them, they're
such majestic animals, and thatwas a fleeting glimpse today
which you won't see on footagebecause Omar pointed the camera
at it but didn't record Record.
Yeah, Although I keep remindinghim.
He's learning, he's learning.
So that was a good experienceand it all unfolded quite

(01:02:20):
textbook.
Took the shot.
Like you said, she stumbledfour or five meters, she goes
uphill and then tumbles downhillinto some blackberries.
Yeah, and that all went to plan.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
So we learned a few tips and tricks from you about.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
Well, we'll get to that.
You can explain that in asecond, all right.
But I want to ask yeah, you canexplain that in a second, all
right.
But I want to ask, yeah, andthen I've already asked omar and
asked his answer, but so thenwe went over there and she was
obviously very dead, yeah, sothere's no benefit in slitting
the throat yeah, you can saythat because at the end of the
day, uh, slitting the throat iswhen they're alive, you try.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
When you slit the throat, you're taking away its
ability to breathe anymore, soit dies quicker.
The blood flows and it diesquicker, right, so you're
getting it out of its misery.
But then at that point of time,by the time we reached because
we spotted that buck and then wejust started walking towards it

(01:03:20):
trying to get a shot at him bythe time we came back she was
already dead.
So there was no point inslitting the throat.
But, like I said, whilechambering my ammunition I had
already said my prayers.
So we were all still good there.
Yeah, but it's not that this isa backup in case things don't

(01:03:45):
go as planned.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
but the first preference should always be to
try to go there as soon aspossible, yeah, and try to slit
its throat, get it out of itsmisery as soon as possible yeah,
yeah, I've done a fair few homekills, killing sheep and things
at home, and it's actually froma RSPCA point of view, it's

(01:04:07):
illegal for another animal tosee you kill another animal.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
Yeah, even in Islam.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
yeah, that's exactly the same so you know it should,
you know, be out of sight of theothers.
So I use my method for homecures is I use a .22 and I shoot
them in the head at point blankand then cut throat.
Yep, so it's a bit of a.
I want to say I'm a bit of agirl Like.
I don't like cutting throatwithout shooting in the head,
because they squirm a bit andthey're a bit jumpy and they

(01:04:34):
make a bit of noise and ah,doesn't it?
So?
Bullet in the brain, yep, andthen cut the throat.
So the heart is still pumping,yep.
Now I approached a vet friendof mine and I asked how long
does the heart pump for afterthey've been shot in the head?
Right?
And he said I can't google thatand you probably shouldn't, but
he, we sort of worked it out atabout three minutes, two and a

(01:04:57):
half to three minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
So the heart still pumps?
Yeah, I've also been brain shot.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
Because my question was I've got four to do, Can I
just shoot them all?

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
And then cut all four Because it's quite, it's
annoying to shoot one, drag itout, cut it, throw it.
So from a you know process andworkflow point of view, process
and workflow point of view, andthat's when he pointed out that
it's not you're not supposed tolet the other ones see what
you're doing, but so that's whatI do now.
I'll shoot two or three andthen that's when I can cut
throats and the heart is stillpumping and then still empties

(01:05:29):
them out.
But I do it more.
From a I'd say that the bulletto the head is the humane part
ended, and then the cutting ofthe throat is more physically,
just bleeding out, pulling theblood out.
But when you chest shoot, froma hunting point of view, 90% of
shots are neck and chest.
They've already done thebleeding out, but it's just the

(01:05:50):
inside in the cavity usually andthat comes out once you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
It's not as efficient as the neck cut, that's for
sure, Of course, comes out onceyou.
It's not as efficient as as theneck cut, that's for sure, of
course.
Yeah, um, so cutting the throat, yeah, like, uh, like you said,
means when it's still alive,like, I think, the three minutes
that you mentioned, the hearts,this it's dead right, like it's
just a muscle, correct, it's aspasm or well, I don't know
what's the technical term for it, but it's just the body after,

(01:06:22):
but it's not feeling anything atthat point.
So, slitting the throat, Ithink it just drains out, and
when the heart's still pumping,so the blood is still trying to
move out and it's coming out ofthe neck.
So but in terms of shooting,look, there's a prescribed.

(01:06:44):
This is a prescribed way thatyou know.
There is no.
Obviously, when you're shooting, there's blood coming out of
the cavity anyways, but theruling is for general, how to
slaughter an animal, rightgenerally.
So you slit a throat, the bloodis gonna just flow out of it,

(01:07:07):
but from a hunting point of view, we still follow the same
things, but blood, at the end ofthe day, is still coming out.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
There's a bit of leeway.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
Yeah, that's why I said there's a bit of leeway,
because back in those days, backin, you know, I'm talking about
1,000, 1,400 years ago therewere no rifles and high-tech
bows.
Back then, you know, there werespears and basic bow and arrow,
so an animal wouldn't haveprobably died from that

(01:07:36):
instantly.
So they had time to do that.
But then we're still followingthe same practice, just to
ensure that we're not leavingany room for any ambiguity in
that.
Because once you start gettinginto oh, what if this, what if
that?
Then you start getting into allsorts of arguments about what
is right and what is wrong.
So just go by the book.

(01:07:57):
What does the book say?
Just do that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
Now, from a trophy point of view, yeah, oh, I knew
you would get to that.
And you said you told meearlier with your Sambi, you did
it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
Yeah, Because when we reached it it was still kicking
its legs.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
So what I'm asking is a cut to the throat is a
terrible, not the end of theworld, but from a taxidermy
point of view, that's not whereyou would normally cut something
.
Yeah, so they have to hidethose stitches, which you can do
in a SAMUS DAG, yeah, but witha thinner head, things like
fallow you'd really struggle tohide.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
Right, yeah, I mean, look at that time it was in the
heat of the moment.
Sure, you know the firstinstinct.
Yeah, the first instinct for uswas to dispatch it humanely as
much as possible.
But then later on I realized ohokay, because I knew at that
time that you know it's hard to.
But this is a new thing thatI've just learned from you is,

(01:08:55):
sambo, you can still work out,but fallow it's muchow it's more
.

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
They just got more hair to cover stitches.
Yeah, exactly, it's like youknow.
Yeah, exactly, coming here,then you'll get a scar, but you
cut up in here, your hair coversit.
Hmm, if you've got to be, right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
When I called the taxidermist and I told him
goodness I, I did slit thethroat he said you just.
He said, okay, get it to me andthen we'll see what we can do
with it.
Many saw it.
He saw it.
He said okay.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
I can.
I mean, taxidermists aremagicians.
Yeah, yeah, they can do somecrazy stuff, crazy stuff, yes,
yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
But then he said, yeah, don't worry about it, I'll
fix it.
So I was really relieved bythat, but until then I was
really stressed.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
So we got a doe on the ground today and you said it
was you.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
Oh, yeah, I mean because mostly I chase fallow,
mostly at Nundle or HangingRocks or Tugalo, and
predominantly we get chocolatefallow over there.
You know the odd beige goldenbrown, but this one was this one
that we showed.
You'll see it in the videosthat we call it common, you call

(01:09:56):
it common Common.
This is common Common.
Okay, it's not very common forme?

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
Yeah well, just pure orange with white spots.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
Oh, nice, okay, so that's the real fallow.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
Well, so I?
Is there a history?
Originally I thought that too,but we had a guest on that.
His explanation was there'sonly one fallow, it's just a.
It's not.
I always thought there was fourcolors.
He said there's one and it'sjust a gradient from that to
that and anywhere in between.
However, the majority of themtend to be grouped in these four

(01:10:26):
colors.
There's variants all the waythrough, so it's all one species
.
Um, it's just a slightlydifferent color variation.
Traditionally in this area wedon't get many chocolates.
I did shoot a velvet chocolatebuck, which is kind of
contradictory, because it's oneway to get rid of chocolates is
to shoot your bucks.
But the genetic line is here,but most of them are that common

(01:10:48):
and mantle colored.
Okay, yeah, the beautiful,beautiful skins beautiful skins.
Very nearly like a chittle.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
Yeah, exactly, and I'm not a big fan of chocolate,
maybe because I see it socommonly.
I love chocolate, not fallowjust chocolate in general, yeah,
but yeah because we see them socommonly means in nonetheless,
just when I see these, such abeautiful coat of the white in
the bottom.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
They definitely stand out in the bush very easy to
spot, definitely.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
So yeah, I would have kept the skin if I wouldn't be
traveling down south.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
You still can.

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
Can I?
Oh, yeah, we've got a freezer,cause you've got it in the
freezer.
Yeah, there's nothing wrongwith that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
Cause the way I cut it.
It's the same way you would doit for skinning.
All you need to do is just downthe arms to join those cuts
Might as well.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
just buy some salt on the way.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
Don't just freeze it.
Just freeze, it Perfect yeah,drop it off here on the way back
and we'll give it to you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
Why not then?
Yeah, why not then?
I thought you know, because,the way you asked me, do you
want to keep the skin on withthe guts as well?

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
no, gutted first.
All right, like we did.
I want you to talk about that.
I want you, yeah, because I didit I did it the way I normally
do it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
Yeah, but it's different to some people it was
not normal in my, in my book.
It was definitely veryinteresting the way, because
I've never seen that.
I've watched a lot of videos onYouTube of different sizes and
different countries, but I'venever seen the way you've done
it.
So basically and please correctme if I'm wrong if I'm going in

(01:12:32):
the right sequence is youstarted off with the throat just
below the?
Is you started off with thethroat just below the, not
exactly at the joint just belowthe throat, and you would cut it
inwards and then you took thewindpipe out and then you got
back to the backside of thefallow and then you made a hole

(01:12:53):
in its what do you call it?
All around the bum Bum, andthen you took the whole thing
nicely, what do you?

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
call it All around the bum, bum.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
And then you took the whole thing nicely, cleanly out
and you pushed it in and thenyou started slitting it from the
center all the way and youjoined that from the back, from
the bum side, to all the way tothe throat and you literally
just opened it up and it was so.
It looked easy while you weredoing it, but I'm sure I'll you
know, and it's quite effectivebecause and it's a perfect way

(01:13:25):
to even preserve the skin,apparently now, because the way
I used to do it, just straightaway, just go for the, just make
a slit near the tummy and thenjust take it all the way down to
the cavity and just take theguts out.
And it was a difficult waybecause you have, you have to.
There are some tight anglesthat you have to work with

(01:13:46):
holding a knife in there and youcan't quite see yeah, and you
can't see.
But with this way, you just openit up and everything was nicely
.
Uh, we were on flat ground, soit was nicely opened up and then
I could see what what we aredoing.
So the starting part was a bit,probably is a bit tricky, but
once you get, maybe once youslid through the whole thing, I

(01:14:07):
think it was, you know, openingup nicely the other thing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
So I used my axe to, so I opened up the chest cavity.
I didn't actually cut thediaphragm yet, but I opened up
the chest cavity and then youcould get in and that's why I do
the throat first.
So, um, it frees up the tracheaand esophagus so you can pull
it back into the chest cavityand, essentially, when you're
finished, you can hold up thethroat and what you've got is

(01:14:32):
the respiratory system and thenthe gut system and then
everything was still the bum andeverything all in one yeah,
that was, that was beautiful,one whole piece.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
That was really.
You made it look easy like I'llsay that again and again, but
it was I, I'm sure it's.
It's so much, it's much harder.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
It's fun doing in front of people who haven't seen
it, because it does it.
It is quite it's time efficient.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
I'm going to try it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
I'm definitely going to an all-size animal, it
doesn't change is it?

Speaker 1 (01:14:56):
uh, do you reckon it's going to be harder with a
deer, like sample?
Because with this you couldjust hold it, you could balance
it, you know, while you'resplitting it?
yeah, it's slightly harder, butif you have two people and you
can get it on its back with itslegs up in the air, um, or if
you're on the side of a hill youcan actually tie its back legs
up right to a tree, or and holdit something with the, with

(01:15:18):
antlers, because they get soyeah it's, but but I'm sure you
know what it's practice rightlike if it had antlers and we
were caping it right, I would dothat first.

Speaker 2 (01:15:28):
Yep, so I'll do the cape first.

Speaker 1 (01:15:31):
First and then the gut after all right got it um no
, but definitely learn a newtechnique, which was this is
quite unique.
But definitely learn a newtechnique which is quite unique.
I'm gonna try it definitely.
I'm gonna send you a video ofme trying to butcher it up, as
you said.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
Butcher it like there do it well or do it poorly.
Now, before we wrap up, thereason you're on this journey
and heading from Sydney throughto Canberra is you're hosting a
hunt for groups that you're apart of.

Speaker 1 (01:15:58):
So, yeah, we have a hunting group of about 300
people, in that it's a closedgroup, so every I would say, six
months we set up this and thewhole intention again is that
it's a very similar concept thatthe hunter campfire guys do Get

(01:16:21):
the newbies out there.
Try to share knowledge withthem as much as you can Pair
them up with the moreexperienced hunters, try to make
them understand how to find you, because that's what happens
with the new, with the newbie,that they get frustrated.

(01:16:41):
A lot of them, a few, the someproportion of those guys, they
start doing the wrong stuffbecause they're frustrated and
some of them they just give up.
And you know, the rest of them,they, they still carry on.
So we, we want to raiseawareness as to and I and I, uh,

(01:17:03):
and I say this that stateforest hunting can be.
It's hard.
I'm not taking that, I'm notsaying that it's not hard, but
once you understand the conceptof finding a deer, it gets a bit
easier.
It's not easy by any means, butit gets easier because you
start building up patterns andyou, when you understand, when

(01:17:26):
you look at a terrain, when youunderstand, when you look at the
features of the terrain, youstart building up a picture what
the deer might be doing.
If there's a deer, what they,what it might be doing down
there, start painting a pictureand then you start finding sign,
you start building all thosepatterns.
So, and that's what we try to,uh, you know, teach the, the
newcomers in in that camp.

(01:17:47):
And that's the main one, onepart of it.
The other part is obviously, uh,you know, uh, getting together,
having a bit of community youknow community building, you
know uh and then uh and justhave some good time and you're
gonna make new friends.
A lot of people make newhunting problem.

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
Find their hunting partners over there that's where
you found yours from yeah,exactly that's where I found my
problem you might need a new oneafter this one.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
Oh, yes, and I and now I'm going to sell my
binoculars.
They're useless.
When I'm with Omar, he's thebionicle man, yeah so that's
what we're doing and that'swhere I'm heading right now,
right after this, going therefor about five days.
It's going to be fun lookingafter and looking forward to it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
Get some fresh meat in camp now.

Speaker 1 (01:18:36):
Oh yeah, thank you.
I should really thank you forthat.
You know, reaching out, youknow you don't know me at all,
we have no common friends.
It means a lot that you justreached out and you just, you
know, invited me over to hunt onon this prime land, on this

(01:18:57):
prime land, and I can't thankyou enough.
It's just a very, very high.
I really don't have words toexpress how thankful I am,
because I've never reallyexperienced I usually get

(01:19:17):
trashed, you can say, for someof the videos that I post up and
the content, but then lookingthrough that and then contacting
me and inviting me over, itreally meant a lot and thank you
for that.
And the meet we've taken, thewhole thing.
This is going to feed all the40 people who are coming over

(01:19:41):
there, who are all gonna be verythankful to you.
So, you know, thank you,appreciate that, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:46):
Just on the taking the whole thing out they
literally took the whole thingout.
I mean we gutted it, yeah, butthey got the stick on the
shoulder, yeah, and carried itout.

Speaker 1 (01:19:54):
Yeah, that was yeah, and then, and then Umar would
struggle walking in a straightline and I'd have to.

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
It's a challenge carrying them out like that, but
it's better than one persondoing it on their back
definitely definitely she was abig, big doe, so plenty of meat
to go around plenty of meat, yes, look forward to hearing the
stories from that camp.
Oh yeah, for the peoplelistening watching, how do they
find your videos?

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
and you.
So I have my YouTube channelcalled Khan Adventures, so you
can find me there, and I'm alsoon the same with the same name.
I'm also on my other socialsInstagram and Facebook where I
post all you know short snippetsof stuff that I do, and on my
channel, of course, I have allmy hunts and they're on and not

(01:20:40):
just my hunts, but I try toeducate in terms of how to hunt
on state forest, how to besuccessful on state forest.
So, yeah, that's more of thecontent that I try to focus on,
but at the end of the day, I'mtrying to go out there have some
fun and share as much knowledgeas possible, and share as much
knowledge as possible and raiseas much awareness as possible.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
I think it's a becoming more of a thing yeah,
we were going to wrap up, butone more thing with newer
hunters that are appreciative ofthe help they've received, yeah
, so they then pass that onagain?
Yep, and I think we're movingaway from a there's a word for
it patriarchal I can't rememberwhat it's called, but hunting
used to be passed down throughgeneration, and there's been a

(01:21:24):
big influx of beginners who havecome from a background of no
pass down, so they're learningfrom videos, podcasts, social
media, whatnot, and then I'mseeing those people be a little
bit more willing to share, andit's nice to see no, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:21:43):
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
Like I said, like I, I saw theguy's eyes and I got hooked onto
it.
I said, okay, this is a feelingthat I.

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
That's why I got this I want.

Speaker 1 (01:21:51):
Yeah, that's it's true.
It's true.
Now I know, yeah, and uh,probably.
Uh, you know I'm still new atit.
I'm by no means I'm, andprobably, you know I'm still new
at it.
By no means, you know, Iconsider myself an expert or
anything.
I'm still learning.
But I try.
Whatever I learn, I try to passit on so that you know the guys
try to do the right thing andbe successful at the end and be

(01:22:12):
happy.

Speaker 2 (01:22:13):
That's it All right, everyone.
Thanks for watching.
Thanks for listening.

Speaker 1 (01:22:17):
Until next time.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
Thank you Anytime.
Thank you, that was good.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 11 Hunting on the wrong side of the fence with Haroon Khan

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.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Cold Case Files: Miami

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Ep. 11 Hunting on the wrong side of the fence with Haroon Khan

Cold Case Files: Miami