Ep. 12: DIY New Zealand public land Red Stags and importing 23kg of antlers from Canada!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
They issue you with the NZ Police, issue you with a
temporary firearms permit.
It's an A4 printout, basically,which is your online
application, but it's colour andthey sign it with ink and
that's what you have to carrywith you at all times when
you're over there, along withyour Aussie licence and passport
and other identifying.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
And she goes.
Well, it's because it's like aset of antlers, you know it goes
down the conveyor belt.
We've got to process it like abag.
I was like, oh no, these arejust like single ones.
She goes oh, don't worry aboutthe fee.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
then so in my head I'm like right, I've got like 30
.
Yeah, the stag let out one moreroar and it looked like he was
going to come towards us becausehe was just standing there
staring at us for probably allof felt like ages.
It was probably a minute,minute and a half just roaring
staring at us trying to figureout what we were.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Back to Accurate Hunt .
So Life Outdoors.
I have Gio with us tonight,coming from what I would call
the city, but anywhere north ofMiddigong is the city, as we've
just discovered.
We've just been talking aboutsomething we'll rip and do later
and I told him to shut upbecause he was giving away all
the details and I don't liketalking about it before we start
.
But looking forward to tonight,we're going to cover some fun

(01:24):
stuff domestically andinternationally.
Geo's been up to.
So welcome to the show, mate.
How you been.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Thank you very much great to be here long time
listener.
Yes, um yeah, yeah, trying to,trying to get out as much as
possible, but, um, yeah, I'mkeen to tell the story and keen
to describe what adventures I'vebeen on, both here and over in
New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, well, that's what we're here to talk about.
I've been like you said.
You're a keen listener.
You've been hanging around.
I think that's how we met.
I just missed that message.
I had another podcast-relatedtopic some time ago and kept in
touch.
It turns out we've got a fewfriends in common, and Joel,

(02:12):
tristan and Dean as well.
We're sure that's right.
Yeah, poor old Dean, I ruinedhis private access.
I'll let him deal that storybecause he's coming on soon to
talk about something as well,but it's.
You've been doing somethingrecently that I, I want to say,
envy.
I do do a fair bit in NewZealand, but it's a little bit
different.
We do a lot of the estate stylehigh fence guided stuff, and
you've been over there playing,doing the free range,

(02:34):
self-guided stuff, and that'swhat I got you on here to talk
about.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, yeah, keen to keen to go through it.
It's, it's, it's such anawesome place.
So, yeah, it blows my mindevery time I go there.
So, yeah, I love to talk aboutit.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
How many times have you?

Speaker 1 (02:53):
been.
I've been over there twice thisyear and last year, and I mean
I call myself a pretty newhunter.
I've been hunting for aboutthree and a half years.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Talk about that.
Why did that start?

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Well, I've actually owned rifles for I'm 36 now.
Pretty much shortly after Iturned 18 and applied, got the
permit to acquire, went into thestore and I sort of said, what
do you want to do?
And I said I want to shoot somerifles, I want to go target
practice but also want to getinto hunting.

(03:31):
So, long story short, ended upwith a Weatherby Vanguard 270.
And yeah, I mean I did a bunchof range days and enjoyed that a
lot but never actually got intothe hunting side of things.
Yeah, I mean I did a bunch ofrange days and enjoyed that a
lot but never actually got intothe hunting side of things
because I just didn't knowanyone that hunted.
None of my friends hunted.

(03:52):
I'm a as I've heard you saybefore first-generation hunter.
You know none of my familyhunted, but it's always appealed
to me.
I was actually born in Europe,in Italy, and moved to Australia
when I was three.
I've grown up and lived inSydney my whole life, here on
the northern beaches.
So the beach is somethingthat's a big part of my life,

(04:17):
either in under or on the water.
That's sort of where I spendmost of my time.
But the hunting side I justnever got into and it wasn't
till it was after a crate I've Ithink COVID had just hit.
So plenty of time you know tospend locally.

(04:38):
And I was with a mate shout outto Jack and he said he was going
to, yeah, for a hunt on theweekend and that was kind of it.
The rest is history.
I said, mate, let's do this,teach me, and sort of how do you
do it?
I didn't know where to start.
I think I actually had an Rlicense back, way back when I
was, you know, 18, 19, but letthat lapse because I just never

(05:00):
used it and so renewed the fee,paid the fee, renewed the R
licence and he said this is whatyou've got to do, book this
forest and we'll go down, andthe rest is history.
So that was relatively new tohunting but done a fair bit of
it over the last three and ahalf years.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
The majority has been .
Has all of it been public land?

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, it's all been public land hunting.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Can you just go and check out a private block when
we spoke about it?

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah, I've hunted.
That was the first so recently.
You're right recently, througha friend, through work, got
introduced to a property ownerand went over there, but I
wouldn't call it hunting, it wasmore shooting and that was only
for a couple of hours.
How was it?

(05:53):
It was well okay.
So we went there.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
I don't know the answer because we spoke about.
When I asked you to come on thepodcast, you were like going
down that afternoon.
I was.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, it were like going down that afternoon.
I don't know how it went.
Yeah, it went well, it wentwell.
So it just kind of blew my mind.
Actually.
We get there and I met theproperty owner and we had dinner
and a beer, and then it wasalready dark by then, because it
was only recently.
So we went out for a bit of aspotlight and literally the

(06:28):
first paddock gate that weopened there was a, like a
decent buck just just standingthere.
Um, we didn't take it, it was.
It ultimately gave us a slip,but we, um, we went and bumped
into shortly after a mob of six,six does and, yeah, shot one.
That was probably within thefirst half an hour and, yeah,

(06:49):
took the meat, chucked it on theback of the ute and that was
kind of it.
So, yeah, very, very privateland spotlighting, yeah.
So I haven't hunted it per se,I've, I've shot that one time,
but pretty much the last fouryears have been exclusively
state forest hunting, bothcentral, west and down south.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, and you can keep.
I keep blocks like that as meatruns, you know like.
If they're that easy and youneed some meat, just whip out at
night and go and get a few andit gets it done pretty quickly.
You don't need to put the fullweekend into.
But it's not as romantic either.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
I had literally come back from New Zealand and so I
didn't have much of a leave passto go for longer than what I
did, so I drove down.
I think it was probably 3o'clock or 4 o'clock.
I left here in Sydney, got downit's a couple of hours south of
Sydney and probably two and ahalf hours Got there, had dinner
, went out for a spotlight anddrove home all in the one night.

(07:50):
So, yeah, definitely what Iwould call a meat run.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
No, that's efficiency at its max.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
And okay, so you've done a few state forests and
things and you've becomereasonably confident in New
South Wales state forestsSuccessful.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, I think we've got a.
Yeah, absolutely, I think we'vegot a really good system.
You know the R licence system,obviously, compared to some of
the other states in the countrythat don't have public land
hunting Queensland, for instance.
But yeah so probably try andget out every on average, maybe
every couple of months.

(08:29):
I'll probably do maybe six orseven hunts a year, All seasons,
winter, summer, the rut.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
Do you prefer to target one forest and know it
well, or do you sort of touch ona few, depending on seasons?
Or do you?

Speaker 1 (08:44):
sort of touch on a few, depending on seasons.
I do like the aspect oflearning new terrain, learning a
new forest, the challenge ofbeing somewhere you haven't been
.
The challenge I've got is witha two-year-old.
The time now is so hard to get,and so I've tended to focus on

(09:07):
forests that I know and havesort of scouted and I'm pretty
familiar with.
So don't get me wrong, I doenjoy different forests, but
I've tended to, probably in thelast year or so, focus on the
same forest.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, I'm going to ask you a question I haven't
asked other people this, but Iwant to make it a bit of a
regular question and it's whatwould you consider a successful
hunt?
And I'll give you my answer.
Like I said, I haven't askedthis question before and to me,
a successful hunt is killingsomething.
I'm not at the point where asuccessful hunt is coming home

(09:41):
with a smile on my face notseeing anything, and it comes
from a private land background,not these guys that spend four
or five years trudging throughstate forest not to shoot
anything, so situational yeah,yeah, look, definitely a
successful hunt is definitelyone that I come home with, um,

(10:02):
with some meat.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
That's definitely a success in my books.
But at the same time, in theearly days of state forest
hunting, I was going multipletimes, multiple trips with
nothing.
And for me I mean, yes, I huntand the main goal is to get meat
.
But for me I work in the city,you know corporate job, nine to

(10:27):
five, monday to Friday.
I live in what you'd describeas the city, you know the
suburbs of Sydney.
It's, for me, getting out to thebush is a way to really switch
off, unwind, disconnect, and so,you know, being out there is
just a success in itself.
Having the time to be immersedin nature, that's really a big

(10:52):
part of it too.
A big part is obviously cominghome with meat, because I ended
up having to buy a chest freezerat home and that's stocked.
We eat venison at know once ortwice a week at a minimum, um.
So for me, a big part of it is,you know, being um, you know

(11:14):
being in a position where youcan, you know, feed the family
off the things that you catch,be it deer, or, or fish, or you
know anything else yeah, and youmentioned earlier that you're a
pretty keen fisho.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
Being that close to the beach, do you bow hunt as
well.
Like you're a spearfisher, sodo you bow hunt.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
I haven't made the transition yet.
Some of my mates do now thatsort of.
I've got a decent crew ofpeople that I can hunt with and
most of them actually I fish andspearfish with.
So some of them have made thetransition to bow hunting.
I haven't yet, but I candefinitely see myself making

(11:57):
that transition soon.
I think I wouldn't say I'vefully mastered, if you like,
hunting with a rifle yet.
You know there's a lot ofthings I want to achieve with a
rifle first before I up thechallenge and move to bow
hunting, but I can definitelysee myself going there in time.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
Flipping that around a little bit, I found that I
wouldn't call myself a bowhunter, by any means.
Definitely a bow shooter.
Not a bow hunter, but anylittle bit of bow hunting I do
do, or spend time with someonethat does do.
It makes you a better rifleshooter because it forces you to
get closer, it forces you topay attention to the wind more

(12:35):
it the little things that youcan kind of let slip a little
when you're rifle hunting.
But I think yeah, yeah, itimproves.
It will improve you as a riflehunter if you did try it.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Big time, big time it's.
As you know, having done acouple of state forest hunts,
it's bloody hard.
It's bloody hard enough with arifle, but I can definitely see
the way that your skills wouldjust get so much better.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Leave the go for your private block.
That's right, maybe yeah,absolutely when the when the
pressure's not on as much.
So a couple of years now threeand a half years in new south
wales state forest, and then youdecided how did the new zealand
thing come about?
Because it's sort of notsomething most people do early

(13:22):
on in their hunting journey.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah, I was thinking about this the other day.
I think I'd actually probablyshout out to Tristan for getting
me onto Hunter's Club.
So, for anyone that hasn'twatched any episodes that those
guys do, it's a really, reallysleek production, mainly hunting
in New Zealand all sorts ofspecies, and they do some free

(13:49):
episodes on YouTube.
They also have a paid seriesthat you can purchase, or single
episodes if you like, but thatreally just showed me how, like,
what hunting is in New Zealandand what it's all about, and
that just appealed to memassively.
So I think you and I spoke, um,when I was doing a bit of

(14:10):
research into it and andultimately I did go the diy
route on public land.
But, um, it's just, I mean,regardless of whether you go
guided or diy, it's.
I encourage everyone to lookinto it and and get over there.
It's, it's so close the thescenery's amazing that the hills
are just.
You know they're challenging,as, as I'll tell you in a little

(14:33):
bit, but it's, it's just sogood being there and it is just
so close, like four and a halfhours.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
You know you can get flights for 600 bucks return if
you book far enough in advance.
I liken it to, or I say thatit's usually the first
international step for someone.
For an Australian hunter, myfirst international trip, I went
to Africa.
That's not normal.
That's not the normal journey.

(15:00):
Most people tip the toe in thewater and try New Zealand
because, although the hunts maybe expensive, from the guided
point of view the travel's not,whereas if you go to africa you
spend a lot more on the flightbut a lot less once you get
there.
So it's uh yeah, it'sdangerously close and some guys
are just addicted to it and theydo it regularly.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
it seems like that started for you yeah, I mean, if
I can do this trip once a year,I'll be, I'll be a happy man.
Um, as, yeah, for all thereasons that you mentioned, it's
so close.
Um, they have a really goodpublic land system.
You, you know you literally.
Well, you literally just put in, you go into the department of
conversation of conservationwebsite in new in New Zealand

(15:46):
and it's basically your firstname, address, details, email
where you're hunting, and youclick apply and it spits out a
PDF.
That's pretty much the permitfrom a public land perspective.
There's obviously other stepsas Aussies to get over there
which we can get into as well.
But yeah, it's pretty open.

(16:08):
You just book where you want togo and go.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
How did you pick where you wanted to go?

Speaker 1 (16:15):
That I did have a bit of guidance with.
So a friend of mine that liveshere is a Kiwi.
He has a friend over there thathunts and he actually joined us
on that first hunt.
So it was myself and him andanother guy that didn't hunt but

(16:35):
in the lead up to it he hadhunted there.
He had hunted there a couple oftimes in winter and sort of in
summer.
So I knew the conditions andknew sort of the terrain and I
was happy to go where he sort ofsuggested to in that general
area.
Was he going with you?
He ended up coming with us thatfirst year.

(16:57):
He didn't this year, but hecame that first year but
actually met us on the secondday.
So, um, and we can get into itum later.
But but the start of the trip'sa bit of a river crossing and it
had rained.
I was actually over there for awedding the first year I went
there.

(17:17):
So that was the originalpurpose of the trip to to the
south island and uh, I feel forthem, but they must have had 100
mil of rain on their weddingday.
You know, in the marquee it wascompletely sealed.
The wedding guests had sort oftwo inches of water, you know,
at their feet.
And so when we got there to thespot, he sort of marked it, sent

(17:41):
me the marks on the app and weapp and and, um, we get there
and the river, you know, was Imean we did a dry run without
our packs.
It was up to our chest, um, youknow, at the deepest point, and
flowing really hard, whereasyou know, and freezing,
absolutely freezing, whereas youknow, he'd said, when he hunted

(18:02):
it, he, you know, he said, oh,it's probably probably waist
high, so it was running probablya couple of foot, um, higher
than it and it would normally.
So, um, he ended up sort ofmeeting us on that second, on
that second day, but we, wewasted probably six hours trying
to find a safe spot to cross,and that's the whole thing in
itself.
You know, those, those riversare, can be pretty, pretty

(18:25):
dangerous.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
So not to be underestimated, that's for sure
that's a lot of weight thatwater can push to oh yeah,
especially when you're carryinga you know 30 kilo pack on your
back with a rifle.
Yes, nervous, it's like whenyou fall over at the pub and you
don't want to drop your beer,do anything, you'll fall over,
but you won't drop your rifle,that's for sure yeah, did you do

(18:46):
it in multiple trips, or youjust carried all your stuff over
in one go and then got dressedon the other side yeah, so the
so the first year we did it.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Well, we had to find a safe spot to cross, so we
actually tried probably three orfour times in that sort of five
or six-hour block that it tookus to cross, and we did a dry
run just in our togs and crocsCrocs are an essential bit of
gear when river crossing overthere and so we finally found a

(19:20):
place.
It was sort of hard to theriver was splitting too, so we
had to cross at a point that wassafe and then find another spot
to cross.
That was almost like twocrossings in one.
We did that without our packsand, um, then we we crossed back
and then did it with a fullyloaded pack the second time.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
So, yeah, it took us two guys yeah, that stuff's
pretty fun and scary at the sametime.
Yeah, yeah, definitely so hemet you on the second day.
So we'll just start with yourfirst trip on the first year.
Was it pretty daunting or wereyou excited, do you think?

Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, very daunting.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
I mean, you're at the bottom where the river is, but
I know what you're looking at,even though I don't know where
you were.
It's a massive hill in front ofyou most times.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah, definitely, I know what you're looking at,
even though I don't know whereyou were.
It's a massive hill in front ofyou most times.
Yeah, definitely.
So there was a sort of um rivermouth, if you like.
That that um fed into the mainriver that we had to cross, and
so we're staring down thevalleys, sort of up the river,
and I'm just going how the hellare we going to do this?
It's raining, it's windy, it'scold.
I'm with another mate who hedoesn't hunt here in Australia
or overseas.
He was just there for the hikeand the experience and it was

(20:33):
his friend that ultimately gaveus the pins in the area and
where to hunt.
But then was meeting us on thesecond day and it was daunting
as hell, you know.
We almost gave up.
We were at the point wherewe're like we'll try one more
time, but we just, yeah, it'simpossible to cross it at this

(20:54):
point, so I'm glad we didn't andwe crossed it and then, yeah,
hiked sort of 10K up the riverand got to the hut that we all
agreed that we'd meet at.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Were you on a trail.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
There's a trail that leads to the hut.
So the thing about New Zealandis they've got a really good app
called NZ Topo and that's kindof what I use for the majority
of the planning of the hunt andit marks out where there's
tracks, where there's huts, itmarks hunting areas, so where

(21:31):
you're allowed to hunt, thingslike that.
So you can mark waypoints, youknow, leave a snail trail.
It measures, you know, yourelevation, your distance, you
can measure distances.
So it's pretty useful.
So we got to the hut and wewaited there for him and
inreached him to let him knowthat it was a bit of a nightmare

(21:54):
to cross.
But, yeah, sure enough, by thetime he got there in the morning
, first thing he managed tocross at the original spot
because the water had subsided.
It drops pretty quick.
It rises and drops pretty quickfrom from what I've experienced
.
And, um, yeah, sort of threehours after that he was, he was
with us at the hut and we westarted the hike up to the, to

(22:17):
the tops and when.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
When you say hut for those people that haven't been
over there, can you describelike?
Do you know much of the historyabout the huts and why they
were set up and where they are?

Speaker 1 (22:28):
I don't know much about the histories.
Maybe you can describe.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Only a little bit and please jump on and correct me
if I'm wrong.
But the majority of thembelonged to fur trappers and
things that was along theirroutes while they were trapping
possums and wallabies andwhatnot over the years and they
were built.
But there was an issue andagain someone's going to blast
me for doing talking about thiswrong.

(22:53):
There's an issue just recentlywhere I'm going to say doc, went
in and demolished a heap ofthem and yeah, okay they weren't
supposed to.
They sort of knew they'd'd berepercussions but they wanted to
get rid of them because theywere introduced, type you know.
Anyway, that ended up in courtor whatever.
So please someone correct meand tell me the real story.

(23:14):
But yeah, very old.
Snowy Mountains style huts haveyou seen any of those?

Speaker 1 (23:19):
They are, I haven't, no, no, but I have seen some
over there and they range insize, they range in quality.
Some you can book, some youcan't.
The main one that we used forthat first night was I think
it's got one bunk bed and oneother mattress in it so it

(23:42):
sleeps three.
I think you can sleep a fourthon the floor, but it's pretty
basic.
That's pretty much all that'sin there.
It's a wooden with a tin roofmost of the time tiny shack, and
that's pretty much it.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
So I'm going to get out of the bad weather.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
We used the hut on this year'strip just because we had some
weather coming in on the lastday and didn't want to be hiking
down a mountain in thoseconditions.
So, yeah, we stayed there.
But the downside with it wasactually when we got there the
first night this year it waspeak raw and the hut was full

(24:25):
and there was probably 10 tentsaround around the hunt, so they
are popular on those tracksatmosphere though yeah, it was.
It was we actually got in latethis year.
So, um, um spoke.
I only spoke to a couple ofpeople, um that were there.
Um, yeah, the first thing thatthat I saw was a, a nice eight

(24:45):
pointer head just resting upagainst the, against the hut,
which was pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
It definitely got us all excited, um but yeah, did
you use the hut as a base justfor the first night or for the
whole hunt?

Speaker 1 (24:58):
well, so we flew both times.
So the first trip I I flewinternal from Queenstown to
Christchurch.
This year we flew.
I just flew from Sydney firstthing in the morning.
We got to Christchurch probably2 o'clock and so we used the

(25:19):
hut as a base only because bythe time we got the car and
drove it's a couple of hoursfrom Christchurch.
By the time we crossed theriver the sun had, like
basically the sun had alreadyset, and so it was head torches
on and we got there pretty late.
So we just pitched a tent nearthe hut and then hiked the side

(25:41):
of the hike the next morning.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, and they just kept coming back to there each
night.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
No, no, no.
So we set up on the tops, so wepacked the tents up.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
How far are we talking from the river?
Just to visualize From theriver to the hut and then from
the hut to the top.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
River to the hut was about 10K, pretty flat.
There's a few smaller rivercrossings that you have to do,
but pretty much it's a narrowtrack so it's pretty easy going.
So that's about 10K and then,yeah, from the hut it's more

(26:17):
about the vertical metres thatyou're ascending because there's
no track to where sort of thespot that we were hunting.
That's kind of the mostchallenging part of the.
You know, the spot that we werehunting, um, that's, that's
kind of the.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
That's the most challenging part of of the whole
whole experience and can youliken the terrain and what you
were sort of pushing throughwhen there was no track?
Can you liken that to anythingwe have here in australia, like,
was it ferns, was it mossy, wasit?
You know, there's nothing superprickly over there.
There's some that really wantto eat you.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
No, and yeah, that's a good point.
I mean, over there, you knowyou're walking through, you know
tussock and you know long grassand you know nothing over there
can really, yeah, compared toAustralia, we don't have the
snakes.
You're wearing gaiters, butpurely for grass seeds and
moisture protection rather thansnake bites.

(27:07):
So yeah, look, the non-trackascent, the climb up was.
It's thick as anything.
It's as you said, it's mossy,it's slippery.
Your foot's going through treeroots.
You know, carrying a fullyloaded pack, you know 30 plus
kilos tree roots, you know,carrying a fully loaded pack,
you know 30 plus kilos.
It's actually pretty dangerousboth going up and going down.

(27:30):
So you really need to take yourtime.
But the hills are steep.
They are very, very steep.
We think the ascent was 930metres from the hut to basically
where we set up camp and thenyou're pretty much on the tops.
But you can go another 100metres if you want to the very

(27:52):
top.
So yeah, it's a big climb andit's just you've got to go slow.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
There's no other way to do it?
And why had you picked thatspot, Was it?
You're chasing reds, tarchamois.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, mainly reds.
We'd seen a bunch of reds thefirst year, I think.
So last year we only had a dayand a half on the tops, just
because of the timing and theway that we'd planned it and a
day of the side coming in andout staying at the hut, but we

(28:30):
went so, yeah, so we sawprobably 40 deer in that day and
a half on the tops.
I was a bit early for the rawlast year so we didn't actually
see any stags, but we knew thearea had deer and the guy um who
we went with had seen deer andany numbers.
So we figured that was sort ofour best, best bet.

(28:51):
And yeah, we didn't.
We didn't see anyone else upthe tops there, um, no other
hunters, um, so and that was thesame for this year as well well
, that's, that's the other thing.
You you go somewhere so hard toget to, chances are you're not
going to, you're going to cutout most people.
We bumped into a couple thatwere crossing when we were

(29:14):
crossing this year and they'dheard a bunch of roaring but
they just hunted the river andthe flats at the bottom.
So some people do do that andand they're there, but I don't
know.
I like going up the tops, beingable to just sit on a on a
ridge and just glass and spotand stalk.

(29:36):
I really enjoy that.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
You don't get a lot of that state forest hunting
here in new south wales, so youdon't get the long range
visibility that's right yeahthere's not a whole lot of use
for a spotting scope, but so ifyou're running a spotting scope,
then are you guys sharing loadsin your backpacks, or is
everyone just looking at theirown?

Speaker 1 (29:54):
stuff?
That's a really good question.
Um, you would have thought Ilearned last year with, uh, an
overly heavy pack.
In fact, you know, speaking ofTristan, who's someone who's an
absolute gram chaser you knowex-Army or still in the Army, I
should say but I'd done a fewtours and you know he was

(30:18):
telling me how he cuts histoothbrush in half and you
squeeze the toothpaste out ofthe tube and, you know, go full,
minimal.
But I never got that and I neverunderstood why people did that.
I just, I don't know, you don'tknow, until you then are in a
position where you've got a packthat's way too heavy for you
and you, very quickly, you know,learn from that mistake.

(30:41):
And you would have thought thatI learned this year.
But, um, I probably did cutabout five kilos.
I managed to, you know, lastyear I think I had three knives,
two power banks, you know, fullcookware set up um, my own tent
, um, and not even one of thoselightweight ones, I think it's

(31:02):
three and a half kilo tent, youknow.
So, two manor, but still prettyheavy.
So, yeah, you kind of, you try,and you know, the more times
you do it, the better you get atit and the more streamlined
your gear setup is.
So yeah, I've forgotten ifthere was a question there that

(31:23):
you'd asked.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
No, I said, are you?

Speaker 1 (31:26):
sharing the loads?
Oh, sharing loads, yeah, so, toyour point, we did to an extent
, but not as much as we probablyshould have.
So, you know, you probably onlyneed one jet boil we had, you
know, one per person youprobably only need.
You could probably share a tent.
If you wanted to really need um, you could probably share it.

(31:48):
Share a tent if you wanted toreally um, um, you could share a
lot of things.
But I think, um, yeah, I thinkwe didn't really do that
properly this year and we'llprobably, um, probably, you know
our packs probably a little bittoo heavy, so next year we'll
probably be a little bit lightertwo of you hunting this year,
or just two, you and your yeah,two of us hunting, yeah, so
there's four of us all up twoguys that were with us for the
hike and two of us hunting, sotwo rifles.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
That's handy.
They don't carry a rifle, butthey can carry some meat out.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
That's right.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
It's funny we mentioned Tristan.
I mean I talked to him.
I don't talk to him that muchnow, but he put a post up the
other day on State Forest page,I think and it was about what's
in his backpack.
Yeah, I saw that the responseswere pretty interesting because
I understand that he's a Grahamchaser, but a lot of people
don't know that about him andthey were questioning things and

(32:41):
then the general consensus wasno, I just take a four-pack of
E's and a pack of Dari's and mydog's not, and a dog yeah.
There were some funny answers onthat.
But when you really get intothe serious, you know,
weight-restricted hikingchallenges, it's important, like
it matters, and it just itmattered.

(33:04):
And I'm definitely well awayfrom my peak fitness but when I
was at my peak I was, you know,fit enough that I could carry.
I think the worst one I did waslike 54 kilo pack out and that
was a.
It was a 10 day backpack tripand it was a mountain goat hunt

(33:25):
and it was just myself and theclient.
There's some other storiesrelated to that trip about bears
and things, but not important.
It was a 10-day pack-in and Itook everything, because the
hunters turn up with backpacksthat aren't designed for
backpacking.
And his was like an ebel stock,which is an american brand.
There's heaps of fabric, not alot storage and it's got these
arms that swing out.

(33:45):
It opens up and you can putyour rifle in there and then
pack it in it.
It's like a swaddle for it, butanyway it's just wasted fabric
and weight.
So I had the tent, I had thefood for both of us for 10 days,
I had my hunting gear, sleepingbag, the cooking gear I packed

(34:09):
in.
He had a mountain goat tag anda black bear tag.
So I packed in four cans ofbeer.
I thought we could celebrateone each.
So we got in there.
It wasn't a massive hike in, Iwant to say it was.
We quad biked for like threehours to as far as we could get
to a wilderness zone and then weparked them up and then it was

(34:30):
like a seven-hour hike and itwasn't treacherous.
It was along a creek bedcrossing 3,000 times.
But when we got there weactually got in late.
It was dark.
I'd never been to this place.
We were going to a dot on a mapthat my boss had showed me and
I was like no, I've had it.
We're setting up camp.
It's 10 o'clock and I said whathave you got in your backpack?

(34:51):
And he pulls it out and it'slike gun, chocolate, knife, rain
gear and that was it and he hadno room for anything else.
So we're unpacking and we setup tent and did all that stuff
and I got out the beers and Ishowed him.
I was pretty excited.
I thought it would be a nicetreat, because I don't actually

(35:17):
drink.
That was a waste of what's that?

Speaker 1 (35:20):
1.2 kilos or something, 50.
How heavy did you say it was 50?

Speaker 2 (35:22):
On the way out, I came out because we shot a gun.
Oh right, yeah, 50, how heavydid you say it was 50?
On the way out, I came out itbecause we shot.
All right, yeah, yeah, yeah,and he couldn't fit any more in
his backpack.
So, anyway, we'll get to theway out.
So I set up the camp.
We woke up in the morning andthe actual designated camp spot
was like 300 meters from us butwe couldn't see it at night time
and it was like a nice smoothsand bed and hot tie-up rails
for horses and all sorts ofthings and we camped on this

(35:44):
rocky piece of crap.
But it was like 10 o'clock atnight and I couldn't be bothered
going any further.
We hunted and, yeah, he wassuccessful and shot this
mountain goat.
But we packed out and so I hadthe mountain goat full body cape
because no one half mounts amountain goat full body cape and
some meat.
We couldn't take much.
We took a fair bit down to campand then we ate a fair bit for

(36:08):
two days and then we packed out.
But yeah, 52 kilos it was, andI remember getting back I just
had stuff hanging off mybackpack everywhere.
Not much was in it, everythingwas around it.
It was a sky archer 6200 inchbag.
It's a Stone Glacier Greatbackpack, love it.
It's just over there, out ofsight.

(36:29):
But we got back to the quad bikeand I remember taking my
backpack off and it's been along explanation, but I'll get
there.
And you know, when you walkdown the bottom, you walk down
steps and your brain thinksthere's one more, but there's
not, yeah, and your feet just doit and you're like, oh, you
stumble a bit all the same onthe top, you think there's one

(36:50):
more and you put that big stepin but there's nothing there.
I took my backpack off and likeI went to walk but my body was
correcting for a backpack Ididn't have on and I did these
weird like moon walk.
It's like a baby elephant, ababy giraffe sorry, they've just
been born legs everywhere andonly for, like I reckon, four or
five steps.
And then my body worked it out.
But that was the weirdestfeeling.
And, uh, I definitely went homeand culled a lot of gear and I

(37:14):
never took beer again.
We went to whiskey because youcould take one bottle of whiskey
and get a lot more shots out ofit that's right.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
That's right, that's insane though and I wasn't
comfortable.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
But I was at, yeah, my peakish fitness, which is
like 83 kilos and strong andkeen and dumb, but I wouldn't
want to do it now yeah, no, it'sum 30 kilos.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
You reckon yours was oh, it was well with the rifle.
Yeah, so the pack I tried tothis rifle's probably four, four
and a half kilo.
All that with, you know, skypeand Bipod, and you know yeah,
what pack are you?
Running.
It's a Bushbuck.
What do they call them?

(37:59):
Destroyers?
90 litre oh a big one.
It's big, yeah, yeah.
Well, it has the capacity to bebig.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
I mean, you can always pack it down.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
That's right.
Yeah, so you can.
I mean, I use it for shorthalf-day trips here in Australia
, but it cinches.
The beauty of it is it's notthe most lightweight pack.
But you know, you can take theSkylid off and that's, I think,
5 litres, and then the sidesjust really cinch down pretty

(38:32):
hard.
So you end up with a prettylight pack and it's got a meat
shelf, which is good.
So it's got that littleexternal frame.
It does Not a full externalframe, external frame.
It does, oh, not the not a fullexternal frame.
It kind of, um, the pack kindof just comes apart and you can

(38:54):
shove meat in in between the,the pack and the on the shelf.
Um, in saying that actually youcan take the whole pack off and
just have it as a, as a frame,so, yeah, I guess it does.
Um, it have that.
So that's pretty good.
So that carried most of ourgear on our trip.
So, yeah, so with the riflepack, water, I think it was

(39:14):
about 31, and then, yeah,heavier on the way back.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Were you concerned about water being up there?

Speaker 1 (39:22):
No, as far as the availability.
No, so I carry one of those.
I bought one of those.
I forget what they're called,the life straws, the water
filtration systems.
So it comes with the one I gotcame with like a foldable bag
with a big kind of sort oftwist-top valve.

(39:44):
You can kind of scoop the waterout of tarns or you know the
alpine lakes, they call themtarns.
So we, and when we set up at thetops, when we were looking at,
you know, places to set up campeven when we're rescouting this
year for tossing up whether wego somewhere else or not, but

(40:06):
typically the flattest, you know, when you're on the tops
there's not a lot of flat groundand so when you are looking for
an ideal campsite, typicallythe edges of the tarns are going
to be the flattest spots, andso where we were set up for camp
was, you know, 20 metres from atarn and that's all fresh water
you could, you could probablydrink it.

(40:27):
I mean, it's not moving.
Um, I think we did last year.
Almost the time you're boilingthe water anyway, for you know
food like if you're usingdehydrated meals and stuff.
But um, I just ran it throughthe, you know the filter and
it's as good as any water, ifnot probably the best water
you'll drink.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
so um, I don't think there's a whole lot of
nervousness around drinking thatwater.
I mean, they don't have beavergiardia type stuff.
Um, you know you're quite high.
You're not in livestock areas,it's again I.
I would probably personallytake the risk and drink it and

(41:06):
not take a filtration system.
But I'd want someone in camp tohave it and then I'd carry
something in return for them.
Just in case you only foundmuddy puddles.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
But yeah, yeah, I mean with, with, with that thing
, you can pretty much drink mostwater that you come across.
I think it's designed for know,muddy puddles and things like
that, but you know, the waterthat we were drinking was, I
mean, it's crystal clear, right.
It's feeding from a waterfall,sort of at the top of the bowl
where we would camp, so it getsreplenished with a lot of the

(41:37):
rainwater and topped up.
Is there any fish in there?
Not in the tarns, I mean, wedidn't.
Certainly in the streams, yeah,big time.
There's plenty of big, bigtrout that we saw.
You could just see them.
You're just walking along theriver and you just look over and
oh, there's a, there's amassive trout right there.
A couple of boys, um, broughtsome, some rods and had a few

(41:58):
casts, but no luck, um, butthey're definitely there that's
why it took you six hours tofind a crossing.
Yeah, yeah, no, definitely it'ssomething that, yeah, next time
you'd come better prepared.
You know, more lures and moreflies.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
And you said your rifle, your rifle.
Your rifle weighs four and ahalf kilos.
Is it something you wouldconsider lightening up and, you
know, buying a specific mountainrifle that might kick your ass
when you shoot one because it'sso light, just to save some more
weight?

Speaker 1 (42:35):
Yeah, I'd definitely consider it.
I just run the.
I just have the one mainhunting rifle, the 270.
I don't have sort of I've got a22, but obviously deer hunting
it's the one rifle that's beenmy go-to and I find it's a
pretty good all-rounder.
It's definitely as 270s do.
They've got a bit of kick, butI like the way they shoot and
it's always shot pretty well andpretty accurately.

(42:57):
So I would.
But what would you be?
You'd be saying about a kilofor a lightweight rifle Maybe
get a 10-inch free now I reckonyou'd say yeah, you'd say of a
kilo.
So I mean there'd probably beother things in my pack I'd

(43:19):
ditch first.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
You know, definitely share the load a bit more next
time.
How did you go?
Let's get into the food stuff,because food really interests me
.
But what did you pack?
And you mentioned dehydrated,so I'm assuming you went down
that route.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
Yeah, we did, we did.
That's kind of the easiestthing in the backcountry is just
a bunch of dehydrated meals.
You can get them anywhere Overthere, you can buy them in
supermarkets and you knowthere's a hunting and fishing
store pretty much, um, you know,on every corner almost, or so
it seems nice or hunting relatedstore, uh, so yeah, you can

(43:53):
pick those up anywhere they're.
They're not cheap.
They're probably range betweensort of 12 and 15 bucks
depending on where you buy themand what size they are, but that
was sort of our main, and $15depending on where you buy them
and what size they are, but thatwas sort of our main staple
over there.
You know, breakfast, lunch,dinner, so breakfast they do a
cooked brekkie or they do a, youknow, like an oats type thing,

(44:14):
granola and oats and things.
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
What brand did you go with?
We went with Downhouse.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
No, we went with backcountry cuisine and actually
so on that it was Easter Sundaywhen we landed, and so it
occurred to me that luckily itdid, but nothing would be open
when we land, and so things thatwe were planning on getting

(44:44):
over there, like things like youknow, gas, um, buying all the
meals when we landed, all thatstuff we couldn't do.
So we ended up taking the mealswith us, but and ended up
through for another friend of afriend getting getting some gas
bought for us ahead of time.
So so that was handy.
A little tip for travellers youcan't fly with gas canisters,

(45:11):
that's right.
That's right.
So, but you know, christchurchAirport's got a Bunnings
literally next door to it.
So that's what we did last time.
And unless we fly on GoodFriday or Easter Sunday, yeah,
which this year happened to besort of peak raw, you probably
won't have the same issues, butyeah, so backcountry cuisine.
So the point of all of that was, when we landed, we obviously

(45:33):
had to take it over there withus because we couldn't buy it,
because we were starting ourhunting trip pretty much the
moment we landed Out of customslike that.
Well, so they actually made amate of mine who mixed things up
.
He thought he'd sort of mixthings up with a different brand
and they let the, becauseBackcountry Cuisine is a Kiwi
brand.
They had no problem with that.

(45:54):
You declare that we had meatand you can go on their website.
And I rang in advance and theysaid there should be no issues
with freeze-dried foods.
But they the customs officerthat my mate got actually took
the non-Kiwi brand meal off him.
So I don't know whether he justwanted to try it or what, but,

(46:14):
um, one of his meals got got gottaken.
So, uh, I don't know whetherthat's um actual rule or what,
but yeah, did you find that youpacked too much food?
We did, yeah, yeah, we did.
So we ended up with a bit leftover only because we were
successful this year and I shota stag, so we ended up eating

(46:38):
that for most of our meals.
So we had a bit left over, butessentially we only took
breakfast, lunch and dinner forum the days that we were there.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
So if we not shot something, probably you want to
shave some weight.
I drop like, uh, like usuallyone breakfast and one dinner.
I always find that there'll belike at least one night you come
home and just react like no,just not eating, just going to
bed.
And I've never come home andgone.
Oh jeez, like I've ran out or Ialways still have something

(47:11):
left.
But yeah, you've got to becareful.
But I carry.
I've got one backcountry stylemeal in my emergency bag at all
times and it's probably well outof date.
This is from New Zealand days.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
They last four years.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
They're well out of date because they didn't air
longer than that.
But I found a Clif Bar that nolonger resembled a Clif Bar, I
don't know, it was all crumbledup.
Did you have any snacks?
Did you take anything?

Speaker 1 (47:39):
So hot choccies, definitely a welcome drink, um,
when you're up there and it'scold and wet and windy, uh, like
it was for us.
So, and they weigh nothing,that's right.
Sachets of that um cup of soupI found was was another good
sort of snack, um, any sort ofin between meals or if you just

(48:01):
don't feel like a full meal.
That that's kind of a goodlightweight.
Obviously, coffee um, we didn'treally take too many snacks, or
I didn't anyway.
A couple of boys took somechocolate and and some um snakes
, which got devoured pretty muchthe first day, um, but no, we
didn't really take too manysnacks apart from that and

(48:23):
another thing to consider isyou're rubbish because you've
got to take things out with youso often.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
I consider the packaging on things and I try
not to take cans, because it'shard to pack down on your way
out and you're still way a fairbit.
One of my favorite meals is twominute noodles and tuna sachet
and you sort of you know, cookyour-minute noodles and then
throw your tuna in at the endand heats it up and just mix a
bit of protein with your crappyMSG two-minute noodles.

(48:51):
But yeah, we do the sachets,because you can actually pack
them down quite small.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
I mean that's the thing on the MSG side.
I don't know what they've gotin them, but definitely after a
few of them, after a few days ofeating the backcountry meals,
you know they all start to tastethe same.
So it's good having a bit of avariety.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
What about energy, though?
Do you think they gave you whatyou needed while you were up
there?
I find they're really high insodium, and you've got to be
careful that you don't get a bittoo salty.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
Yeah, definitely, lots of salt, lots of other
stuff obviously.
But yeah, I mean, we weren'thungry.
I would say I think, you know,between all the snacks that we
had, I mean, most of the time wewere, you know, walking around
and hunting and doing stuff.
So you don't really think youkind of just eat because you

(49:46):
need to, and sometimes we'd, youknow, have a late lunch and
then no dinner type thing.
So we'd have a big brekkiebecause you wouldn't eat before
the morning hunt.
You'd come back around 10,coffee brekkie and you probably
wouldn't eat lunch until 3 or 4before you go out for the, for
the afternoon session and, um,as you said, you come back and
you're like no, straight to bedso it's better.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Anyway, enough about the food, unfortunately, we
better get into some huntingstuff.
So you've already given awaythe ending.
You shot a stag.
How many deer did you see thisyear?
If you saw, you know, 30 or solast year.
Yeah, a lot more, 30 or so lastyear.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
Yeah, a lot more stags.
So last year we went about justover a week earlier than this
year.
So I think last year the tripstarted on the 23rd, which
should be sort of I mean, I'm noexpert, but that should be sort
of.
The roar should be in motion.
We didn't hear any roaring lastyear.

(50:43):
I heard a very faint roar onthe 26th on the way down.
This year was next level up.
We crossed the river and everyside of the mountain, every sort
of valley we walked past, had astag in there roaring its head
off.
It was like we were there forthe peak of it and it was

(51:07):
awesome.
But, yeah, no stags.
Last year probably 40 hinds ina short period of time.
So there's definitely deerthere and some of the locals are
saying that actually thechoppers aren't allowed in there
, which is why the populationsare a bit higher in that area.
This year we probably saw 15 inthe sort of two and a bit days

(51:33):
on the tops that we had, butdefinitely more stags.
I think we saw three stags.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
Yep, yep.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
And one obviously met your demise.
Do you want to tell us how thathappened?

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Yeah, so it was.
Actually we had just gotten tothe top.
So the climb, as I sort ofalluded to before, was the most
brutal thing I've ever done inmy life.
Six hours later we get to thetop and set up camp, exhausted,
had a meal and there was abouthalf an hour left of well, half

(52:10):
an hour before sunset, and wesaid, all right, well, we don't
have long, but let's go have alook.
Near camp, it was probably 400metres to a vantage point that
overlooked pretty much the wholeside of the mountain.
And so we went over there andyou know, as they're running out
of light, set up the tripod,put the binos up, sat down, put

(52:32):
my eyes to the binos and Ireckon it was all of maybe 15
seconds, and I was like, guys,there's a deer, there's a deer,
and I couldn't really seebecause it was, it was probably
700 meters.
I ended up ranging it um, soit's pretty far, but I just
somehow my binos landed on itand and there it was, um and

(52:54):
it's not that easy to spot inthe tussock country until you
get your eye in for it yeah,yeah, no, and.
And so I guess I was lucky or Idon't know, but spotted him
pretty much straight away.
I couldn't tell whether it wasbecause it was so far away and
we didn't have a spotting scope.
I just had my 10 times binosand he had a better look and I

(53:17):
was like, yeah, no, because hewas facing away.
He was probably 100 metres fromthe tree line and just sitting
there, he just sat down and hewas roaring and he got up and
then I could tell he turned hishead and I was like, oh yeah,
it's a stag.
I wasn't sure on how big he was, but you know, before that trip

(53:39):
never shot a stag, never shot abuck.
So I shot a heap of does, abuck.
So I've shot a heap of heap ofdoes, a couple of spikers here
and there actually shot a buckwith no antlers.
Um, as my fourth deer, I thinkprobably shot about 25 now.
But, um, you know, it's likeI've had buck or stag repellent
on every time I hunt because, um, yeah, I've had had a few

(54:00):
opportunities but never shot one.
And so, you know, when I sawhim I was like, guys, I'm going,
I'm going, and I didn't reallycare if it was a massive trophy
or not.
I just it was.
You know, it was a stag and itlooked like an okay one.
So I thought, yep, I'll goafter it.
And with the fading light Ijust said, yep, I've got to go

(54:23):
now.
And so I pretty much ran.
There was a series of guts andkind of the approach was mostly
hidden for at least the first300 metres.
And I got to a point where andI had to roll the dice in terms
of if there was other deer andhinds that saw me than saw deer,

(54:44):
but the wind was swirling, itwasn't really consistent.
It was kind of up my ass and soI had to really just act
quickly.
And so I got to about I think Iranged him at 350 or 340.
And I had a good ledge I couldget a rest on and he'd sort of

(55:05):
moved.
Since I saw him, since Ispotted him, probably 10 minutes
had passed since that initialsighting and I thought he's
moving, he's starting to walk,he probably senses something's
up.
I know he hasn't seen me, buthe's probably caught my wind and
knows something is not right.
Yeah, got a whiff and he's upand he was stretching and he was

(55:27):
off for a walk.
So I thought I've got to arrangehim and I'd done a little bit
of longer range practice aheadof it, ahead of the trip, and so
I was semi-confident that Icould get the shot off with the
bipod and a proper rest.
And so I thought, yep, I'llhave a crack, I'm pretty certain

(55:51):
I can do it.
And he'd sort of paused.
I waited for him to turnbroadside, so I set up and lay
prone and I was steady, Ifocused on my breathing and
which was, yeah, the adrenalineat that point in time was crazy.
But got a rest, focused on mybreathing, sort of bottom of my
breath, just slowly pulled thetrigger, squeezed it on and

(56:16):
heard the thud, the delay.
On that distance that's probablythe longest, it's easily the
longest range shot I've done ona deer and the thud, heard the
thud and instantly sort of gotthe wobbles and I was like, okay
, that must be a pretty goodshot.
And yeah, it didn't go far.
I think he went maybe all of 10meters and dropped it.

(56:37):
And that was it the feeling.
I mean, it was just I can'tdescribe it the range of
emotions.
I just looked back at the boysand they're waving and I started
just running towards him, likeonce I'd seen his drops, and try
to get there before dark andget him, because by that stage,
you know, sunset had happenedand it was sort of nearing on

(57:01):
last light.
So, yes, I got there and it wasexpired.
The shot ended up being prettymuch straight through the heart,
so it was actually a little bitlow, but it worked out well,
just behind the shoulder andyeah, so I was kind of yeah very
happy with that and just enoughtime for a few photos.

(57:23):
The boys, um came down with um,you know, with a few spare hands
, and um we, uh, yeah, we, wetook, we took a bunch of meat
and um got a bunch of photos andwalked back under head torch a
long way back.
Yeah, we've um, because he wasdown probably.
I was probably 100 metres lowerfrom where we were, maybe even

(57:45):
more.
Yeah, it was a pretty big packout back to the tents, but a
very happy one at that.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
I bet your legs were weary after that day's walking.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Oh, definitely, definitely, yeah.
I mean I don't say that lightlythat climb is by far the
hardest thing I've ever done.
You know it's um, it's not easy.
So, yeah, the legs weredefinitely jelly.
But got back to camp and I said, you know dinner, just straight
to bed and um, yeah, stoked,yeah, stoked.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
He's on the wall behind you, isn't he?

Speaker 1 (58:23):
He is.
Yeah, Turn the camera.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
For those that are watching you can see it.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
So he's a nine-pointer, so he's got.
So he was five by four.
Yeah, five by four.
So he's probably not the best.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
There we go, that's a better angle For those that are
listening and not watching.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
I apologize, but we'll put a photo up um, yeah,
so end up being five by four andand mate, to me that's as a
first um, it's an absolutetrophy.
And uh yeah, hanging proudly onon the fireplace did you keep
hunting the rest of the trip?
We did.
Yeah, we definitely did.
So that was day two.

(59:05):
We had a couple more days.
Unfortunately we got fogged out.
The next day we woke up, youknow, the alarm went off pretty
early, an hour before at leastan hour before first light, I
think it was and looked outsideand it was such a still night.
On a bed it was.
There was not a breath of wind,it felt like there was two
stags roaring literally eitherside of our tents.

(59:28):
It was.
I've never heard anything likeit.
It was, yeah, just anexperience.
But we woke up, unfortunatelyjust completely fogged in and
that lasted till most of theearly afternoon, so I think it
was about 2 o'clock, so ourvisibility was very limited.
They were roaring, but we justmade things very difficult,

(59:49):
virtually impossible, so had ahunt.
We saw, we got eyes on one.
Actually that afternoon the foghad lifted and actually it was.
The boys were most of the boyswere in the tents just having a
snooze and I was fleshing outthe head and one of my mates had

(01:00:10):
just come out of his tent andhe goes JA, ja, come over here.
I was like what he's like?
Ja, just come over here.
So I crept over because wherehe was sitting was probably
about 10 metres away.
He was sitting on a rock nextto the tents and I was kind of
my vision was obscured by theside of the mountain that we
were camping next to.

(01:00:31):
And I went over there and Ilook up and on the ridge there's
just an awesome stack, justlike out of a movie, like
something out of Hunter's Club,just perfectly skylined, just
roaring his head off.
And I just said don't move,just stay very still.
And I kind of just reallyslowly crept around the side of

(01:00:55):
my tent, got the binos, got therangefinder ranged him, got the
rangefinder, ranged him he was400 metres, got the rifle and
set it up and then actually oneof the other guys unzipped his
tent and I was like don't move,don't move.
He was the one that was goingto take the shot.

(01:01:16):
I go, just use my rifle.
You know it's all set up.
And unfortunately actually bythe time he came over, um, yeah,
the stag, let out one more roar.
And and, uh, it looked like hewas going to come towards us
because he was just standingthere staring at us for probably
all of felt like ages it wasprobably a minute, minute and a

(01:01:37):
half just roaring, staring at ustrying to figure out what we
were, and he ended up giving usa slip.
So he went over the ridge andwe chased him.
We went up and got intoposition and tried to look for
him but he was long gone.
He was down in the bush roaringback at us.
But yeah, he gave us a slip.

(01:01:57):
So that was the second day,probably the highlight of the
sorry the third day, most ofwhich was fogged out.
And then saw some others on thenext day, but it was like gale
force winds and they were prettyfar.
We just couldn't get close andthat's when the weather started

(01:02:19):
to come in that afternoon.
So we went back, packed up andheaded to the bottom, did a bit
of fishing and did a bit ofhunting.
Down the bottom there wasplenty of sign, sign like I've
never seen, but just it'sdifferent, it's much harder in
thick bush.
So, yeah, we just didn't get anopportunity in that hunt.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
You sent me a video of you guys crossing the river.
Was that on the way out?

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
I should have sent you one on the way over actually
, because, whilst it was runningpretty low, both of the guys
that went before us, my matesthere's four of us, two of the
guys that didn't hunt decided togo first and and despite it
only being waist high, I endedup in the tree, so completely
drenched head to toe.
But, um, yeah, definitely theway back was was scary.

(01:03:12):
Um, I'd actually taken a Ilearned my lesson from last year
and um thought what I'll dobecause I saw, saw them doing on
on hunters's Club was pack raftand I ended up just getting
this.
It's a two-man sort of, just acheap kind of like Kmart

(01:03:37):
inflatable raft.
So I bought that.
I think it's about even $40.
And I thought this will be thebackup plan if we do get weather
, because you have to expect.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
Did you pack up the whole trip with you or just took
it across?

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
No, no.
So we left it in the car.
So we left it in the car on theother side of the river,
knowing that we could, if it wasbad, swim across, get it, bring
it back and just do trips withthe packs in the raft.
And as it turned out, yeah, wegot a bunch of rain the second
last day and the crossing on theway back was pretty bad.

(01:04:12):
It was a bit of an adventure,to be honest.
We ended up having to go getthe raft, so one of the guys
swam across, inflated it, and wethought we'd do it because by
this stage the river was justflowing Like it was going quick
and it's deceptively.
You know.

(01:04:32):
You sit there and you go, it'snot that bad.
And then you look at it againand you go, yeah, or you know
you'll throw a rock in there orsomething, or you see a stick
floating past and you actuallysee how quick the water's flying
.
You go, okay, and deep too.
So, yeah, long story short, weended up getting the raft, my
mate, we had some ropes.

(01:04:52):
I took 60 meters of paracord aswell, which was in the car, and
with the idea that we'd do likea pulley system and ferry the
gear across and then just swimacross at the end, but very
quickly realised that that wasproving to be more challenging.
You couldn't script it.
We were trying to get the ropeacross, I think we taped it to a

(01:05:16):
rock and then threw it, but itwas too wide to actually be able
to throw a rock that far, andso we got a smaller rock, and
this is.
You know, time was passing, itwas sort of, and it was almost
getting to sunset again on thatlast day and we got the rod and
we got a pebble and we tiedfishing line to the pebble,

(01:05:38):
taped it and cast the rod acrossto a mate who was on the other
side so that he could tie thepebble paracord to the rock
which was attached to thefishing line, wound that back
and got it.
So, you know, we eventually gotthere.
And then yeah, I think it wasthe first trip the raft just
filled up with water, like itwas.

(01:05:58):
There was proper rapids and, um, you know the weight
distribution.
It just filled up with water,almost ripped it out of our
hands and we almost lost thewhole thing there and then,
without even attempting acrossing.
So we had to think a bitdifferently.
What we ended up doing was thefirst two guys put their packs.
So the raft.

(01:06:20):
My mate came across the raft andwe were all there with his pack
and all of our packs.
He ended up loading the raftwith two packs and two guys swam
next to the raft and basicallyjust kicked and within it must
have been two seconds.
They were like 50 metres downthe river, like it was quick and

(01:06:41):
approaching like another set ofrapids, so they had to keep
kicking.
They did make it and so we'reall cheering.
You know that was half theproblem solved.
Two of the guys packs across and, you know, two people across.
But we had to get the raft backand so my mate ended up getting
in the raft and paddling itback, and so we basically just

(01:07:04):
did trips where he'd put, forthe rest of the gear, a pack in
with himself sitting on top ofit and I would just push him out
into the middle and he'd justpaddle like hell and you'd end
up over 100 metres downstream.
But you know that's what we did.
We did that for both the packsand then a separate trip with

(01:07:26):
rifles and the head.
So yeah, probably six trips allup.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
The oars on those 40 dollar aren't great?

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
no, they're not, especially when you're trying to
paddle a, you know 40 kilos,plus yourself probably 120 kilos
, and antlers are in the way andrifles.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
You're paranoid about losing over the side just need
the antler to pop the side onceand you bug it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
That's right, that's right.
So I don't know what we do nexttime.
I don't know how we do itdifferently, but that's the
challenge of you know, huntingpublic land You've got no
interest in choppering up.
I was going to say I did lookinto it.
It's not the cheapest.
I mean it's you know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
Split between four of you, though you get up in one
trip.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
You would, you would, but I think it still worked out
to be.
I did bring a chopper companythe local one there, and I think
it worked out to be somethinglike three grand for the four of
us.
So you can definitely do it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
I'd definitely consider it.
Yeah, for next time.
I know some people listeningprobably think, oh, that that'd
be cheating, choppering it in.
But you're only over there forhow long was your trip?

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
yeah, so that's the thing you you save.
Our trip was five days.
You save two days.
You save two days, but also youcan go deeper.
You um, it's not like you'renot walking.
You're still doing a lot ofwalking when you're on the tops,
and so you're really justsaving.
You're not buggered when youstart either.
You're not buggered.

(01:09:01):
Yeah, that's right.
So you could do a day in.
Like, if we somehow, you know,started the hike after the river
crossing, you could do thewhole thing in one day to the
top, and you'd get there for anafternoon hunt, 10k up.
That took us probably threehours, and then, depending on
your fitness level, some of theguys can do it in four.

(01:09:24):
I think it took us like fiveand a half.
So, yeah, that's pretty much afull day worth of hiking, but
you're still losing a day.
That's the point.
And so you chopper in, you'rethere, you're fresh, you can do
a lot more walking on the tops.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
The other benefit to choppers that people don't think
about is on the flight in Imean in Alaska and things you're
not allowed to shoot on the daythat you fly in.
But you actually get just aquick glimpse of the terrain
around where you camped,especially if it's your first
time in.
You might have e-scouted it,but just to physically lay eyes

(01:10:00):
on the surrounding threekilometres from where your camp
is, just quickly from above.
You might want to film itbefore you land.
And then when you're in campyou're like, oh geez, that spot
looked good, looked better thanit did, or that spot looked
worse in person than it does ona map just gives you a quick
little advantage.

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
Yeah, definitely definitely.
Um, even just you know, beingon the tops looking back down
the valley, you notice, younotice little clearings and you
go, that looks really good.
Um, you know from elevation, sofrom a chopper it'd be even
better.
So, yeah, definitely, the timesaved is a big thing.
But yeah, the e-scouting sideof things I mean I think I

(01:10:43):
mentioned before the NZ Topo isgreat because it shows you you
can toggle between satellite andtopo.
So that's pretty good.
You can zoom right in and youcan just flick between the two.
All sorts of overlays.
But the other thing we used wasjust Google Earth.
You know, ahead of the trip Idon't know how many hours I

(01:11:06):
spent just 3D and it's allreally good picture quality.
You know, you can zoom right in.
You can almost do like a little, almost like a fake sort of
chopper, you know, with the 3Dimagery so you can really scout
and, to your point, around water, looking at different spots.
You can find where those tarnsare.

(01:11:28):
You can find where you knowdifferent bits that you want to
different areas that lookappealing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
Yeah, the chopper's a .
It's a viable option and peoplemight freak out because they
you know price, usually by thehour, say three grand by the
hour or something, for a fiveseater.
So you guys plus the pilot.
But it's a 10-minute flighteach way, or 15 minutes from

(01:11:57):
most of these hangars up towhere you want to hunt.
And the other thing, if you geta good chopper pilot and you
slip him a couple of hundy, theydrop you into the better spots.
Most of these guys are huntersor they just transfer hunters
all season.
They know where the choppershave been, they know where the
hunters have been and if you canuse that to your advantage, it
helps Definitely definitely so.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
It's something I would encourage people to do.
I mean, I saw your stories whenyou went.
What was it?
Two years ago?
Now you know the footage thatyou took out of Queenstown.
It's just yeah, it's unreal, sogood.
So yeah, I would definitelyconsider it, just for all the

(01:12:41):
reasons that we mentioned.
You can go deeper.
You know, going over there youcut out the time you get to see
the terrain much, much better.
So, yeah, time you get to seethe terrain, much, much better.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
So yeah, it's also handy just to have as a backup
for the exit.
Uh, you know, if weather turnsyou need to get out fast.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
It doesn't hurt to let them know that you're going
to be up there and say hey guys,I might give you a ring on
anytime this week and that'sright I know where you are now.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
I know you've written some notes for tonight and we
haven't looked at them yet, andthey're about how to was it how
to book or how to fly over witha firearm yeah, both, both um.
So I have to remind myself thequestions that I get asked
regularly with the the newzealand stuff is how do you get
a firearm over there?
And it has changed in the lastfour or five years.

(01:13:30):
When old mate had his littlecar see you, do love in the city
that was a hot rod driver couldyou hear that?

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
yeah, I'm, I'm on a, I'm on a main road, so I'm
actually just going to get mycharger, so uh it doesn't die on
me, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
But uh yeah, the importation of travellers with
firearms changed.
I don't know who it was, butold mate did his little shoot-up
over there and wherever he didit, and they changed the rules.
So you've been through itrecently and I thought we'd
break into it and just wait foryou to finish doing some reno's

(01:14:07):
on your house.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
Probably should have.
It would have been smart toactually have the charging cable
next to where I was set up.
So, apologies, I will get thatsorted.

Speaker 2 (01:14:20):
And if you are listening, what you're missing
out on here is in the backgroundwe can see Geo's chest freezer.

Speaker 1 (01:14:28):
I can give you a tour if you like.
It's pretty well stocked.
'll just get a little chessfreezer tip for people.

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
I don't do it only because I haven't done it yet.
But um, one thing I used to doon our other one was we had a
whiteboard next to it and I hada full list on the whiteboard as
to what was actually in thechess freezer.
And then when you pulledsomething out you had to rub it
off, because I just keep puttingthings on top and I forget
what's at the bottom.
The problem with chest freezesis everything's at the bottom,

(01:14:56):
everything's always at thebottom that's.

Speaker 1 (01:15:00):
That's definitely true.
I've ended up having to justsort it into bags, really um
sausages, um mints, backstraps,fish that's kind of how I sort
it and just pull out a whole bag.
There's no other way to get tostuff in the bottom.
It's just too difficult and youcan't even.

Speaker 2 (01:15:20):
You actually can just write on the chest freezer
because they're that whiteboardmaterial anyway you could,
because they're tin.
You can white on right on themwith a whiteboard marker and
then rub it off as you go, soyou just keep it on the lid, so
you know what's left in there.
The other thing is we spokeabout it last week or whenever
it was, with someone else, but II'm guilty of this all the time

(01:15:40):
.
You put hot meat in the freezerand it, by the time it freezes,
it all locks into the bagsunderneath it and then you can
never get it out.
And if you get it out, it willnever go back in the same spot
that's true.
It's like a game of tetrisalmost sometimes right, yeah,
what have you got written for us?
How did it?
What was the process?
Yeah, so yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
So I had to remind myself because ahead of the
podcast, I thought, geez, I, youknow, even this year I was
telling you before we startedrecording that that's why I told
you to shut up, yeah, yeah,like I almost missed a step this
year in terms of the, the form,one of the critical forms that
I needed to do, that I justcompletely forgot about.
So, um, you heard of the podcast, I was jotting down some notes,

(01:16:21):
but essentially, if you'regoing to do it yourself and and
do public land DIY, you want tohave your permit in at least
four months.
So you want to get your gear,you know, and everything kind of
sorted, your plan roughly fourmonths before, because you do
need to.
One of the key inputs into theapplication on the New Zealand

(01:16:44):
visitors firearm application isyour flight details, and there's
just no way to do theapplication without those
details.
So that's kind of the hardthing.
There's many hard steps, butthat's one of them, and so you
probably need to plan well inadvance.
Probably you know more thanhalf a year and have a rough
idea of the dates that you'regoing to go and then, closer to
roughly four months out, bookyour flights and, um, and start

(01:17:08):
the application process.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
Sorry Is that when tickets open for flights four
months?

Speaker 1 (01:17:14):
I think it's a year.
I think it might be up to ayear, I'm not actually sure.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
I've never booked that far in advance.
You could book six months outand start the process.

Speaker 1 (01:17:23):
You could.
You could, yeah, so you couldbook your flights whenever and
then, as long as you're leaving,four months time lead time.
That's the critical thing.
Four months is the minimum.
Four months is the minimum.
I did it three and a halfmonths the first year and it got
through.
I was going over there anyway,so it wouldn't have been a

(01:17:45):
massive deal.
But yeah, so you can.
They do recommend at least fourmonths.
The thing is you kind of haveto have nerves of steel because
that part of the process the NewZealand visitor's firearm
license and I'll go through thesteps that you have to do to get
it you don't get it untilpretty much a couple of days
before you travel.

(01:18:06):
So that's the bit that'snerve-wracking, do you?

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
think that's on purpose.
I don't know, but like theylook at it and go, oh he's not
turning up.

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
Until then, we'll just issue it now yeah, I have
thought that and I did ask themthis year, because this year I
got it two days before my trip.
The last year I got it ninedays, so I went back and when it
got to about a week out Iproperly started freaking out.
And the downside with this DIYpublic land hunt is that you

(01:18:40):
can't contact the team.
So you can submit yourapplication but you ring the
firearms registry over there andthey can't help you.
They just say it's a team thatyou know you can't ring.
You can email and I've emailedbefore.
Say it's a team that you knowyou can't ring.
You can email, and I've emailedbefore and it sort of takes a
month for them to come back toyou, type thing.
So they're definitely notresponsive and there's no way to
contact them.
I think the first year I evenrang some of the local police

(01:19:02):
stations just to see if therewas anything they could do and
they just pretty much said no,you have to, what you're doing
is correct and you just got towait, wait your turn.
So, yeah, wait your turn.
But what I would say is, ifyou're two weeks out and you
haven't got anything, definitelywhat helped this year was the
registry actually emailed on mybehalf and CC'd me in, and I

(01:19:24):
think, yeah, they must haveemailed one of the managers
there.
But yeah, they pretty much cameback to me the next day and
said your application looks good.
Apologies for the delay,everything looks fine.
You should be good to get yourpermit before your trip, so
don't worry, but we'll processit basically in a couple of days
.
So that bit of it is the firstthing that you need to think

(01:19:47):
about really in this wholeprocess.
So leave yourself plenty oftime and apply.
But to do that, there's a thingover there called RealMe, which
is their login portal, and it'sthrough that that you apply for
the visitor's permit.
What you need is very, verydetailed notes of your trip.

(01:20:10):
They're going to want to knowpretty much to the hour what
you're doing.
So full itinerary.
This is when I'm landing.
This is, in fact they ask forthe rental car company that
you're going to use, obviouslyall your flight details, where
you're going to stay, and sowhat else do they need?

(01:20:30):
They need copies of yourfirearms license, your passport.
So really, for this wholeprocess, both on the Border
Force side here in Australia andthe New Zealand side, there's
the key documents that you'regoing to need is your passport,
your firearms license, your regopapers for your firearms and
your driver's license.
They're sort of the key fourdetails that you need through

(01:20:55):
pretty much every step.
So back to the New Zealand side,the real me.
You set up an account, you login, you apply for the New
Zealand visitor's permit license, you put in all your trip
details, you upload all yourphotos, your passport, your ID

(01:21:15):
and everything, and then you doa test.
So it's a multiple choice kindof test, but it's basically you
have to pass that to be eligibleto apply and then you apply.
One thing that they do ask foras well and this depends on your
itinerary is where you're goingto store the rifles.

(01:21:36):
So you have to be very specificwith you know your details
around that, and last year I wasat a wedding so I wasn't
hunting start to finish like Iwas this year, where I just said
I'm literally getting in thecar and we're driving to the
spot.
Storage will be in my tentStorage.
I will not basically leave therifle side for the duration of

(01:21:57):
my time in New Zealand.
Last year I had to because theyneed proof that you can have
safe storage.
So I was like oh, what do I dohere?
I rang a couple of the firearmstores what do I do here?
I rang a couple of the firearmstores.
They were a bit reluctant to.
You know, they're just so busyand timing they just kind of

(01:22:19):
have to be there when you wantto pick them up and whatnot.
So it was just a bit toodifficult.
And he just said I'd like tohelp you but I can't.
I was like okay, back to thedrawing board.
I don't know anyone inQueenstown that can you know.
Keep them for me.
I ended up finding a guy who Ijust rang him.
He runs a precision shootingtype course.

(01:22:42):
And I rang him and I said mate,you don't know me, but I'm an
Aussie and coming over to do aself-guided hunt.
I just need.
I was hoping that you might beable to store my rifles while
I'm at a wedding in Queenstownand then I'll be flying to
Christchurch and doing a huntfrom there.
And I said you know, happy topay or whatever you like, but

(01:23:04):
this is the kind of problem I'mtrying to solve for and he was
really good about it.
He goes yeah, mate, that's fine.
So he ended all for and he wasreally good about it.
He goes yeah, mate, that's fine.
Um, so he's ended up sending mebecause you need full name,
their address and their umpermit details, their, their
license number and as part ofthe application.
So, um, yeah, a couple emailsback and forth and sent those
across and I was able tofinalize the application.

(01:23:25):
But yeah, they want to know youknow if you're traveling in
your itinerary, if there'speriods where you might be
staying at a hotel before orafter your hunt, that they're
safely stored.
And so the challenge is, if youdon't know anyone, you kind of
have to just ring around and tryyour luck.

Speaker 2 (01:23:42):
Can you just put down a hotel, or does the hotel need
to have safe storage?

Speaker 1 (01:23:46):
The hotel needs to have safe storage.

Speaker 2 (01:23:49):
My understanding is that most hotels any ones that
I've traveled through,especially south africa actually
had most hotels have a safe,and be it for firearms or for
cash or gold or whatever.
Um, have you?
Did you look into that?

Speaker 1 (01:24:04):
I did.
Yeah, I definitely did the.
The places, um, the hotel wassaying it didn't, which
basically ruled out that, but Iended up just getting lucky.
So I think it was the thirdperson.
I rang and he said, yep, it'sfine, so I didn't bother
exploring that further.
But yeah, so it helps if youknow someone that's a local that

(01:24:27):
you can store your firearms at,or if you get on someone that's
willing to help you out.

Speaker 2 (01:24:33):
Yep, righto, so you got it over there, or you got
that part of the permit.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
So that part of it.
Yeah, so I was going to say so,the Aussie side of it, and I
mentioned before the dockhunting permit, similar to our
licence system here.
But essentially you know you'rejust filling in details.
So that's the other document.
That is an instant spit out ofa PDF that you keep and it's
valid for I think several months, maybe three months, and as a

(01:24:59):
fee I think it's $25.
So that's the New Zealand side.
On the Aussie side it's alittle bit quicker.
What you have to do is there's acouple of actual different ways
, but there's nothing online,actually I found.
So last year there was nothingonline.
This year I found an articlewritten by Mansfield Hunting and

(01:25:20):
Fishing, dan and Vic.
They did a little write-up ofit.
So for anyone listening thatwants to have a look at that,
that's a pretty good write-up.
That helped a lot this year,just to refresh my memory.
But the way I did it is this isthe step one regardless of how
you do it is register withBorder Force In there what's

(01:25:42):
called integrated cargo system,so you get a login Depending on
how many firearms you're taking.
And I remember ringing theDepartment of Defence and they
said you've got two options youcan use a restricted goods
permit, which is a form, or youcan register through the
Department of Defence and youget what's called a permit for

(01:26:07):
export of goods and essentiallyyou can export more than five
rifles if you want to.
So you go down the track Ifit's easier.
It might be a little bit moretime-consuming at the start but
you can do it through us andthat way, if you're carrying
multiple rifles or whatever,you're always going to be in the
system.
So I ended up going that routethrough the Department of

(01:26:30):
Defence and so I registered.
So what you do is you registeras a user of the Defence Export
Controls website and basicallythey issue it's called a CCID.
You then use that to registeras a client of Defence Export
Controls and what they issue youis a DCRN and then basically

(01:26:52):
you complete an application toexport or supply controlled
goods and technology.
So that application you prettymuch put in your rifle details,
your license details, your rego,your Department of Conservation
NZ permit, because you knowpeople go over there for
shooting comps and so they askfor your invitation for the

(01:27:14):
competition.
So in this case it was ahunting permit and a screenshot
of the application that I'dsubmitted for the visitor's
licence for New Zealand.
Once you've done that, yeah, asI said, you receive the permit
for exported goods, and that'sthat's the first part.

(01:27:35):
The second part of the Aussieside is through border force and
that's a b957 exportdeclaration, and that's just a
one pager.
They do have a key on the backfor some of the definitions that
they're asking for, so it's,you know, you just refer to the
back of the page, but that's aone-pager.
And once you fill that in againwith very, very similar details

(01:27:57):
, you end up getting an EDN,which is Export Declaration
Advice.

Speaker 2 (01:28:04):
So two forms on the Aussie side.

Speaker 1 (01:28:06):
Absolutely.
Yeah, the two forms really thekey ones on the Aussie side it's
the permit to export goods andthe export declaration advice
and with those two things, alongwith your firearm rego at the
airport, you pretty much gostraight to the Border Force
counter, which is in Sydney.
It's down near where you go getyour GST refund, your tourist

(01:28:27):
refund scheme, and they justcheck your serial number.

Speaker 2 (01:28:31):
That's before you check into your flight.

Speaker 1 (01:28:33):
Before you check in?
Yeah, absolutely.
So you get to the airport,first thing you do is you go
down to the counter there.
They check it, they open it up,check the serial number and
then they escort you back to thechecking counter and they stand
there while you check into yourflight and then they escort you
to the oversized goods wherethey watch the rifle get put on

(01:28:55):
the belt and scanned and offthey go.
So definitely allow time,enough time before your flight
to do that.
The first year I went overthere, we ended up missing our
flight by two minutes.
The first year I went overthere, we ended up missing our
flight by two minutes.
So, safe to say, the missus wasnot too happy with me.

(01:29:16):
No, I bet.
Yeah, rerouted via Auckland.

Speaker 2 (01:29:22):
Did they handle your rifle?

Speaker 1 (01:29:24):
They handled my rifle in so much as they checked the
serial number.
So you open it up.
Obviously, you've got a hardlock case.
You pop it open, they look atit and check the serial number.
So you open it up.
Obviously, you've got a hardlock case.
You pop it open, they look atit, they check the serial number
, put it back and you lock itall back up.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
I think to know is they're not allowed to unless
they have a firearms license.

Speaker 1 (01:29:41):
Oh, okay, didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
Because you're not allowed to unless you have a
firearms license.

Speaker 1 (01:29:45):
Yeah, I mean it may have just been they tilt it, so
they look at it.
So I'm not yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:52):
It's not an argument I want to have with them either.
While you're in that, position?

Speaker 1 (01:29:57):
No, definitely not.
Yeah, the other thing to noteis your ammo.
So you put it's quite specific,you put how many rounds.
If you've got a removalmagazine, you've got to list
that as a separate item.
The number of rounds thatyou're taking, they've got to
list that as a separate item.
Um, you know the number ofrounds that you're taking,
they've got to be packed intheir original factory case, um,
so there's a bit to it and it'sgot to be separate, obviously

(01:30:20):
in your check-in bag so that cango with your regular suitcase.
That doesn't have to go intooversize um.
So, oh, and the other thing, um,which I didn't have noted down
here, is you have to let yourairline know.
Most, depending on the airline,you have to either ring them or
there's a specific form thatyou have to fill in within at

(01:30:41):
least a week, uh, weeks notice,so, um.
So last year, um in new zealand, pretty easy, just rang them,
said yep, yep, no problems notedthis year, emirates and I left
it until about four days beforeand it got to the day before and
I rang them.
I said I still haven't got mybecause they say you don't go to

(01:31:02):
the airport unless you have aconfirmation from us saying that
we've checked your applicationand that you're okay to travel
with a firearm and so, on top ofthe New Zealand permit, I'm
going.
Oh my gosh, I haven't heardfrom the airline.
So I rang them and they werepretty good.
They escalated it and prettyquickly got an email saying, yep
, no problems.
But yeah, that's a criticalstep too to let the airline know

(01:31:25):
.

Speaker 2 (01:31:27):
I know what's next.
Well, that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:31:31):
Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much it.
So I've covered kind of all theforms that you need to do.

Speaker 2 (01:31:36):
What about coming back?

Speaker 1 (01:31:37):
then, yeah, sorry.
So I should mention, when youget to New Zealand, you get your
bags and you go to a specialcounter.
You tell them that you'rewaiting on a rifle and they
bring it.
You go to a room and they checkit.
They issue you with the NZPolice, issue you with the

(01:31:57):
temporary firearms permit it'san A4 printout, basically, which
is your online application, butit's colour and they sign it
with ink and that's what youhave to carry with you at all
times when you're over there,along with your Aussie licence
and passport and otheridentifying details.
So, yeah, they check the rifleand you're pretty much good to
go, so straight to get therental car, or you get picked up

(01:32:20):
and off you go.
But I can't stress enough inthat application, just, you can
never have too much detail.
Detail, like you, you knowaround safety specifically.
Um, so you know things.
Like you know, my rifle will besecurely locked at all times

(01:32:41):
when not in use.
Um, you know, I even put Ibrought a bike chain and it's
going to be chained to theinside of the boot in the car.
Um, that sort of level ofdetail will all help that
process, because the last thingyou want, as they did.
They had to clarify somedetails.
Last year they came back and ifyou don't check your emails or

(01:33:03):
you miss it, then you run therisk of actually then it being
on you in terms of the reasonwhy they don't end up processing
your, your application.
So, as much detail as you can,that's the most important thing.
But then after your trip, samething.
You go to the airport.
Yeah, they check it, they.
You know it's a lot easiergoing back, they pretty much

(01:33:25):
just go yep, no worries, tear upthe license and you go to the
counter and give it to theairline and they bought it for
you.
You get to Australia and theythen recheck everything.
So you go through the declareline, they open up everything.
You'd be declaring stuff anywaybecause you've been in a

(01:33:45):
wilderness area.
So, your boots, they want tocheck, your tent, they want to
check.
You know we had some leftoverfreeze-ddried food, so I'm
literally ticking yes toeverything.
On the way back, um, you knowanimal parts, yes, uh.
So, um, yeah, you come back andand they check whether you go
through everything and, um, yeah, that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:34:05):
So nothing we haven't covered.
You just touched on it then,but was the head itself, so you
boiled it out while you wereover there.

Speaker 1 (01:34:14):
It's got to be boiled , yeah, so you can't bring.
I think on one of your otherreps you mentioned Green skins.
Green skins yeah, so you can'tbring those back in.
But with the heads yeah, I hadto boil it at a friend of a
friend's place this year and doall of that.
So I had to allow time on thelast day to do that before our

(01:34:35):
flight.
So we were a bit rushed again.
Probably next time allow alittle bit more time.
But I ended up just boiling itall out, Actually went through
the car wash to gurney it offthere and bubble wrapped the
hell out of it there and bubblewrapped the hell out of it.
So bag, bubble wrap all overthe antlers and over the skull

(01:34:59):
and pretty much that's good togo.
It just checks in.

Speaker 2 (01:35:01):
It goes through it's checked luggage.
One thing I have had them bepretty firm on is the points.
They weren't worried about itbeing a deer, but the points had
to be covered so they wouldn'tstab anyone.
And yeah, so we do that by agarden hose.

Speaker 1 (01:35:18):
So you just yeah garden hose and a lighter and
you sort of heat it up a bit andthen you push it over the point
and then duct tape it on yeah,yeah, I saw a couple of guys
last year that um had come froma safari or guided tour and they
had racks for days on theirtrolleys and yeah, they had
garden hoses on the ends, sothat was pretty cool.
I ended up just doing doublebubble wrap kind of thing, just

(01:35:44):
ultra padded on all the points,and just ended up looking like
this funny kind of bubblewrapped, kind of bubble-wrapped
kind of head.
But yeah, it did the trick andthey were happy with it.
And I sort of did it at thecounter, to be honest, because
we were so rushed.
I got there and I go is thisgood enough?
They go.
Yeah, that's fine, that's fine,checked it in and off, we went.

Speaker 2 (01:36:04):
That's it.
And then did customers check itover pretty thoroughly.

Speaker 1 (01:36:07):
Oh yeah, so the other .
There's so many things to it.
So the other thing is I don'tknow, maybe you know, but
bringing it back.
I ended up.
This is ahead of time.
I looked up what therequirements were to bring back
ahead if I was to be successfuland the only things I could find
on Border Force website wasthat it had to be clean, free of

(01:36:30):
flesh and fully boiled.
But I did notice that theMinistry of Primary Industries
in New Zealand are able to issueyou with a certificate which
has a unique reference numberbasically describing what it is
that you're carrying.
So I figure some countries wantthat.
I'm not clear on whetherAustralia needed it, but I

(01:36:50):
showed it to the customs personand she looked at it and that
was yeah.
She said that's fine.
So I don't know whether I'dyeah do you know.

Speaker 2 (01:37:00):
Again, I agree that it's probably a nice thing to
have.
I haven't.
I've had people use it in thepast and not use it.
It's essentially a vetcertificate.
So when sometimes you'retravelling internationally and
they request a vet certificateto say what the actual animal is
that we're dealing with andthat it was killed legally kind
of thing, and my reference tothat is, you know, ibex and

(01:37:23):
things coming out of spain andwhatnot and that's actually
quite hard to get over theresometimes because they might
want to take a two-weekprocessing on that and you're
like, no, I'm out of themountains now and I'll fly home
tomorrow.
So they actually in thosesituations they actually usually
pre-issue them illegally, butit's pre-issued so that by the
time you're shot at you'vealready got your vet certificate

(01:37:48):
and then you can fly out.

Speaker 1 (01:37:55):
Yeah, so the sense I got from speaking to them last
year was that they could do thatand I would just need to let
them know and basically it wouldbe pre-issued this year.
The person I was speaking tothere because you basically go
on the website Ministry ofPrimary Industries, new Zealand,
you put in what you're chasing,you know, red deer or chamois
or whatever it is the rough kindof weight and everything and
that application basically sitsthere.
You pay a fee of $50 NZ dollarsand, should you need a

(01:38:20):
certificate to be issued, theyissue it and they keep the fee,
or otherwise, if you don't useit, they just refund you the $50
.
So you know you're not losingout if you don't get anything.

Speaker 2 (01:38:33):
I think, like you said earlier, it's not a bad
thing to have too muchinformation.

Speaker 1 (01:38:36):
That's right, that's right.
And so this year she said ohwell, you have to let us know at
least two days before the tripand I go oh, I'll be at a
reception.
You know how am I going to callyou?
I can't call you.

(01:38:56):
I can't, I can't call you.
She goes oh, you can send anemail.
So I ended up sending an emailfrom the tops, from the inreach,
just saying um, yep, can youplease issue?
Um, it's tagged out.
Can you please issue to thisemail address as per application
in the system?
And yeah, got to the bottom andchecked.
Once we got into reception andthe permit was scanned in um,
they actually scanned thephysical document that had the
original ink stamp andeverything.
And she said I could pick upthe physical permit, but we ran
out of time and I didn't end upneeding it anyway.

(01:39:18):
So something to think about.
If you do want to just dotevery I and cross every T, if
you are planning on doing that,it's a good thing to have, just
in case.

Speaker 2 (01:39:29):
Did you look at bringing any meat home?

Speaker 1 (01:39:34):
I yeah, I didn't think you could, but it's
possible is it?

Speaker 2 (01:39:40):
yeah it's a great it's a gray area and I won't get
into it too much, becausesomeone showed me how to do it,
but it was.
It's along the lines of you dowhat you do up on the mountain,
then take it down the bottom, goto the butcher, and they will,
if they're nice enough whichmost of them are hunters anyway
so they will wrap it in theirpaper and then put their stamp

(01:40:01):
on it which just says product ofnew zealand, and then you can
fly home with it.
It's got to be frozen, butyou're allowed like 15 kilos or
something like it's.

Speaker 1 (01:40:10):
You're not going to feel 32 kilos, but it's a good
way to get some backstraps homeyeah, definitely I'll have to
look into that for for next time, because I mean, that's the
thing you know.
Obviously, um, we didn't end upeating, um, you know the whole
thing.
Um, when we're up there, wedefinitely got through a fair
bit, but um, that's kind of onyour mind, you know you don't

(01:40:32):
want to kind of leave thingsthere and if we could have
brought it back.

Speaker 2 (01:40:39):
we definitely would have, so that's good to know.
As an avid listener of thepodcast, I'm going to say have I
told you the story of when Iwas on my honeymoon and all the
antlers I brought back?
Have I mentioned that story?

Speaker 1 (01:40:51):
No, I can't recall.
Yeah, not to me directly.

Speaker 2 (01:40:54):
Well, I'll retell it and it's a similar situation and
similar issues, but with a lotless paperwork and preparation.
And it happened so randomly.
We were in what's called thecountry music capital of Canada
and I can't remember the town,but it was a dive and it was not
what it looked like.
It was going to be on the mapsWrong season or whatever, I

(01:41:15):
don't know, but it was terrible.
But we went to the localhunting store, because that's
what you do when you're on yourhoneymoon, and we were in a
massive, massive care for van.
We pulled up at the front ofthis thing and there was, you
know, just homeless peopleeverywhere and sad sort of
looking town.
But inside the hunting shopthere was all these on the wall

(01:41:38):
mule deer white towel, mule deerwhite towel, mule deer white
towel, just skull caps all theway around and it just made like
the whole circle of the shoplittle square was.
And I just spoke to the guy andhe's like, oh, my brother and I
shot pretty much most of those,some of my uncles and some of my
dads.
He's like, are any of them forsale?
He said, well, you want to buysome?

(01:41:58):
Like he'd never been asked that.
He said maybe.
I said how much?
He said 15 bucks, 10 bucks.
I said how many do you want tosell?
Sell, like I didn't evenquestion it.
How many do you want to sell?
And anyway, so we, he said,we'll pick which ones you want.

(01:42:19):
So I went around and I picked,you know, 10 nice sets.
I said, right, 150 bucks.
He goes, I'll make it 100,that's fine.
Us or canadian I'd say, but um,he goes.
Do you want more?
I was like, okay, why he goes?
Look, okay, come with me.
Anyway.
He walks out the stop, turns theclose sign around, locks the

(01:42:39):
door behind us.
He said follow me to my house.
So we get to his house and he'sliterally got this pile of
death that's eight foot high andit's just antlers stacked on
top of antlers and they've justskull capped them with a recipro
saw and stuck them on the pile.
So they've still got fur onthem, but from five years old
through to last month, sort ofthing.

(01:43:00):
And anyway we went through thepile and I picked some really
nice ones and and the same thingis 10 bucks, 10 bucks a set,
and I mean like a set on a skullcap, but some of them were
still on the skulls and theskulls were rotten and that he
said we better cut that skulloff.
He gets out a Husqvarna chainsawwith a blade on it that's wider
than my screen.

(01:43:20):
I can't even get it in thescreen.
It was a huge, massive saw andI'm in flip-flops and it's
raining and I'm standing on theskull and he's got this huge
sore and we're trying to cut theskull right next to my toes and
my wife's.
Like man, this is gonna endpoorly, you know.
We got him off and, uh, we, wefilled up.

(01:43:41):
There was a bath inside thiscamper van because the thing was
huge, and we filled up the bathwith these things and we're
like, right now, what's the nextstep?
We went to the local walmart.
We got, uh, domestos likebleach, scrubbing brushes,
knives, black plastic bags, ducttape, um, another duffel bag

(01:44:01):
because we had no duffel bag forthese things and detergent and
a pot, a boiling pot, and itwasn't until I was ringing it up
across the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:44:11):
I'm like this is a kill kit.
This is a kill kit.
Would have loved to have seenthe checkout person.

Speaker 2 (01:44:18):
That's my kill kit in my backpack.
Now that's different.
You know that's got knives andthings in it, but this was like
a proper.
We've murdered 20 people andwe're going to dissolve their
bones inside our little bus andfor that next 24 hours.
That little, poor little campervan just stunk of boiling out
rotten heads.

Speaker 1 (01:44:37):
Why were they so cheap?

Speaker 2 (01:44:40):
They meant nothing to him.
Like he just had that many, hewas stoked to make $250.

Speaker 1 (01:44:47):
Really.

Speaker 2 (01:44:47):
Like they just meant nothing to him.
It's like someone who lives ona, on a farm that just has
fallow on it, I suppose, likethey just pick up antlers and
it's just nothing.
Yeah and uh anyway, but thekicker was.
So when we went to take themhome I filled a duffel bag and
we were flying.
It was qantas, I'd say, and 23kilos.

(01:45:08):
So I I measured this duffel bagout, it was probably like 22.9
kilos of antlers all jangledtogether.
There was skullcap we'd likeextra cut off with hand saws
just to get the grams down.
And we got the bag reallycompressively filled and we got
to the counter and she said, oh,what are you checking in?
And on the thing, there was anoption for antlers and I'm like

(01:45:28):
antlers and she goes in there,and I'm like antlers and she
goes in there.
I was like, yeah.
She said, well, there's usuallyan extra fee for antlers and I
was like, oh, okay, well, howmuch is it?
She goes 150 dollars, how manydo you?
have.
And I was like, what's the feefor?
And she goes well, it's becauseit's like a set of antlers, you
know, it goes down the conveyorbelt.

(01:45:49):
We've got to process it like abag.
I was like, oh no, these arejust like single ones.
She goes, oh, don't worry aboutthe fee.
Then so in my head I'm like,right, I've got like 30 sets of
antlers and $150 a set.
That part was fine.
And then we got through toSydney.
Customs and they pull them to gothrough them all and they were

(01:46:09):
clean and he's like separatingthem into species, like in
muleys on this side and whitetail on this side, and he's like
we don't know what these are.
I said, well, they're antlersof deer and he said what type of
deer?
I told him he goes, but arethey endangered?
Yeah and this is where the vetcertificate thing comes in.

(01:46:30):
I had none of that, so he'slike we might have to send these
to canberra to get identified.

Speaker 1 (01:46:35):
I said I can identify and I said I can show you a
photo of every single americanthat's right, get your phone.
Here's a he's jim shocky withten of them like um, anyway the
concept.

Speaker 2 (01:46:49):
It was an awkward conversation for like maybe only
two or three minutes and mywife's next to me, like I was
like I've just married thisguy's, what's he doing?
Getting all this crap acrossthe border?
And he said the guy said I'mgonna let you go this time.
But and then he started goingon again and I was into him like
trying to teach him a littlebit in an angry and my wife's
like he said he's, and my wife'slike he said he's going to let

(01:47:10):
you go this time.
He said he's going to let yougo this time.

Speaker 1 (01:47:15):
Just get out of here.

Speaker 2 (01:47:17):
Anyway, walked out with a 23 kilo duffel bag of
white tail and leather.

Speaker 1 (01:47:21):
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:47:23):
I've still got just on the other side of this wall.
I've still got a fair few ofthem.
I might give them out as gifts,or the wife makes chandeliers
or something.

Speaker 1 (01:47:30):
I was going to say, yeah, have you done a chandelier
?

Speaker 2 (01:47:33):
Not a chandelier, sorry, she did a lamp, so to say
A timber base, with thiswhite-tailed antlers coming
around it and a pole going upthe middle with a lampshade on
top.
I'll leave the chandeliers toold mate Rapid Effects.
He does really nice chandeliersand I don't want to touch them.
I've seen them actually.
Yeah, they're really good.
We did you talk.

(01:47:53):
I'm going to make some noisehere when I get one of the lamps
that we started making.

Speaker 1 (01:47:56):
I was going to say.
There is one thing I have seen,amongst the hundreds of forms
that you fill out, is on the NZside there's sites declaration,
which has a list of species thataren't endangered, and um,
that's something that I justalways keep um in in my uh, in
my pack.

(01:48:16):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:48:18):
Holy smokes, hello antler, on a nice bit of spotted
gum that's waiting for it was.
We've got a match set, so it'slike a bookend.

Speaker 1 (01:48:25):
Oh, you do, You've got the other one.
Yeah, great, look at that.
Um that's a nice Look at that.
That's a moose.

Speaker 2 (01:48:32):
Headside table.
Put your watch and phone onthere, or something.
Yeah, and it was too nice tosell, so I kept that one for the
office.

Speaker 1 (01:48:40):
That's beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:48:41):
Sites, sites.
Yeah, they don't look afterthose things.

Speaker 1 (01:48:46):
So yeah, I don't know whether that helps or not or
whether that would help in ascenario like you had, where you
just whip it out and it saysyou know, whatever deer like red
deer is not endangered.
It doesn't help the identifyingside of things, but it sort of.
If they can identify it, thenpretty quickly you can see that
it's not.
So I don't know, I just kept itin my pack of forms.

Speaker 2 (01:49:15):
I just pressed a button on my microphone and,
instead of muting me, it turnedme on.
Have you been able to hear mefine?

Speaker 1 (01:49:21):
I've been able to hear you.

Speaker 2 (01:49:23):
yeah, I was a bit worried there.
I had no audio for the last 25minutes.
If you can't hear me if youcan't hear me, you would have
known, but uh, well, that's uhsort of all the things I wanted
to cover tonight, jay, is thereanything you want to add?
I think we were talking about atopic for tonight and what I
wanted to look at was thedifference between the new
zealand you know, our licensingpublic land model versus the

(01:49:46):
australian one, and just justyour final thoughts on how
accessible New Zealand is forAussies.

Speaker 1 (01:49:52):
Very.
I mean, if you can get past theform bit and just the nerves of
steel to, you know, get yourpermit two days before you fly,
type thing.
If you can get past that, thenit's awesome.
Definitely do it.
As you said, it's so close,it's a three-hour flight, you
know whether you go toQueenstown or Christchurch or

(01:50:14):
wherever North Island even butcertainly it's so accessible,
it's so easy.
The culture over there is.
The thing that struck me wasjust the hunting and fishing
culture that they have overthere.
Like I'm there boiling thishead on the side of the road and
guys are walking past going ah,that's a great head, oh, is
that PB and chat for half anhour just because they love it,

(01:50:40):
and so it's a great spot to go.
It's.
You know, there's no realnasties, so you know you don't
have to worry about spiders orsnakes and yeah, I mean the
abundance of beauty there isjust so good.
So if you can do it, you know,once you do it I guarantee

(01:51:01):
you'll do it again and again,and again, and so, whether it's
DIY or through a guide, I meanyou can't really go wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:51:09):
Well, thanks for that .
Thanks for the detailed,detailed breakdown.
I hope that helps those thatare listening and watching, and
we'll want to cut that down intoa separate little video so then
you can share that video around.
And then there is informationonline about the things that you
just had to work out yourself,and for a small fee of 259.
Geo doesn't know this yet, buthe's going to process paperwork

(01:51:29):
for everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:51:32):
So send him all your information and get him to do it
for you.

Speaker 2 (01:51:34):
Now he knows how to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:51:37):
Hey, as long as I can come on the trip as well.

Speaker 2 (01:51:40):
It's his new sideline business, he'll do it in his
name and then you can take itoff him when you get on the
other side.

Speaker 1 (01:51:45):
That's right.
But hopefully I didn't confusepeople listening too much, but
hopefully I didn't confusepeople listening too much.
As I said, there's a goodwrite-up through that Mansfield
website, so have a look at thatif you want a summary.

Speaker 2 (01:51:58):
They travel to New.
Zealand.
Mel, she was just in NewZealand two weeks ago, or
something shooting, oh did they.

Speaker 1 (01:52:04):
Okay, I don't know them, but that's the only thing
I could find that was recentfrom I think June last year,
which was awesome, so well doneto them.
But yeah, find that was recentfrom I think June last year,
which was awesome, so well doneto them.
But yeah, so hopefully that'sgiven you confidence.
It's really easy to do onceyou've got your head around what
you need to do, and definitelydo it if you can get the chance.

Speaker 2 (01:52:25):
I hope this has helped a few people.
It's definitely helped me andI'll get that link for that
article and we'll get it sharedwhen the episode comes out.
Thanks for your time tonight,Gio.
It's been great chatting andwe'll talk soon.

Speaker 1 (01:52:37):
It's been great to be here.
Thanks for having me See youguys.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 12: DIY New Zealand public land Red Stags and importing 23kg of antlers from Canada!

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.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Cold Case Files: Miami

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Ep. 12: DIY New Zealand public land Red Stags and importing 23kg of antlers from Canada!

Cold Case Files: Miami