May 28, 2024 • 45 mins
Could you imagine transforming from a disenchanted accountant to an outdoor gear innovator? Sam from Alton Goods did just that. He traded in balance sheets for rugged landscapes, inspired by his childhood camping trips and experiences with the Duke of Edinburgh program. Listen as he recounts the pivotal moment that spurred him to leave a secure corporate job and plunge into the uncertain but exhilarating world of entrepreneurship. Discover the origins of Alton Goods, named after Alton National Park, and how their first product—an ultralight hammock—set the stage for a thriving business.
As the conversation unfolds, we delve into the success story of Alton Goods, which saw an unexpected boost during the COVID-19 pandemic when outdoor activities became the go-to escape. Sam shares fascinating insights into the durability and cost-effectiveness of his products, backed by customer testimonials and the strategic advantage of their direct-to-consumer model. Learn about the innovative development of their Nanopore fabric, a game-changer in breathable and waterproof technology, steering clear of harmful chemicals and offering unparalleled performance.
Finally, we touch on the vital importance of community connections in the outdoor niche. Sam shares personal stories about meeting influential figures like Gordon Dedman and how these relationships have evolved into valuable collaborations. Whether you’re an outdoor enthusiast interested in hammock camping and temperature control solutions or an aspiring entrepreneur looking to understand the nuances of product development and networking, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge and inspiration. Join us for an engaging discussion that goes beyond the gear, highlighting the passion and perseverance behind Alton Goods.
For the latest information, news, giveaways and anything mentioned on the show head over to our Facebook, Instagram or website.
If you have a question, comment, topic, gear review suggestion or a guest that you'd like to hear on the show, shoot an email to accuratehunts@gmail.com or via our socials.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Music.
It's an early morning andthat's when it starts to get
really cold.
Mm-hmm.
And one kept my butt dry, yep,but you've got the foil on the
bottom, yep, it actually givesyou a bum warm.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah, that's right, gordon Dedman from Bushcraft
Survival Australia.
So I had bushcrafters buyingour gear so I wanted to learn
everything about bushcraft.
So I went and did three of hiscourses.
Yeah, did you know that was no,some smartass put a comment on
there saying it's a marketingcompany or something or other,
but I only knew about that whenI saw the sort of get uploaded.
(00:40):
I had no idea.
Yeah, it's awesome, it'sfantastic.
Like, yeah, it's um.
One of those moments whereyou're like, oh, wow, like
people really believe in us,like that's so good, like we've
been working hard to make thesegood products and welcome back
(01:02):
to another episode of accuratehunared Hunts.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
A wife outdoors, but today we're actually indoors
with Outdoors Company.
Welcome to the show, sam.
Thanks, dodge, thanks forhaving me.
This is Sam from Alton Goodsand a bit of a journey on.
This.
One Reached out to Sam and hesaid oh, we're in Brisbane.
I said, oh, okay, I'll be therein a few days.
So we're flying up to spend theday here and see what's going
(01:26):
on in the factory, check out theproducts and have a bit of chat
and see if we can swindle theminto getting some
hunting-related contenthappening on the socials, always
open.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Thanks for having us.
No, thank you.
Thanks for coming up to thislittle bush hut.
We've got out in the sticks yes, in the sticks, a couple of
hours west of Brisbane.
The sticks meaning pine pallets.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Sorry, I guess western brisbane the sticks
meaning pine pallets.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Sorry, I guess, but uh, what does alton mean?
What?
Where's the word come from?
So it's actually the name of anational park in western
queensland.
So alton national park, um, youhave some affinity with it.
I really like westernqueensland.
Um, my old man's fromcharleville so um done a few
trips out there and was inspiredby like the just the ruggedness
of the place and it's just sortof like impossible to survive
(02:10):
out there almost.
So that sort of inspired me tosort of yeah, like with the gear
that we create, we want it tobe really hardy, really tough
and for those like really toughparts of Australia.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
So now you think you can survive out there.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
No no, no, it's a no way, but, um, look, it was, it
was that, but the name alsolooked really cool.
So there's um, there's nodenying that.
I saw the name and I was like,oh, that that looks pretty cool
as well.
Um, it's got like a good, niceand short, good structure to it.
It's also a sort of the start.
Yeah, that's something I neverthought about.
But, um, I remember doing atrade show down in Melbourne and
(02:43):
like we were top of the listand I was like, oh, you know,
we're nobody's in the back.
Your hands, ac.
Yeah, there you go, there yougo.
So you've done the same.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, not on purpose, but and at start, like you know
, this is from a personalventure of you're into backpack
and hiking yeah, so, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
So through school, I mean as a kid, my parents always
took us camping, probablybecause we couldn't afford to do
any other holidays, but it was,you know, looking back, it was
like it's just really fondmemories as a kid, going camping
with mum and dad and mysiblings.
And then in high school I gotinto Duke of Edinburgh, which is
(03:24):
like for those of you thatdon't know, it's like an outdoor
program among other things.
You do some community serviceand whatnot, but a big part of
it is the expeditions.
So myself and my close mates athigh school did a lot of stuff
with Duke of Edinburgh and thatreally, like you know, as
teenagers, like got us into thissort of thing that we really
(03:44):
loved doing.
You know we love getting nicegear and going out and doing
cool trips.
And then, yeah, into uni.
I continued that on with mymates.
We'd go hiking, camping, allsorts of stuff, bit of hunting,
and I became an accountant outof university and I hated it.
So I did that for five years,got my CA.
(04:04):
Just couldn't stand like onemore day in that office.
It just was not for me.
So I guess I had a bit of amid-twenties crisis and I
resigned and I looked within andwas like what am I actually
passionate about?
Like what do I want to do as ajob?
Because this isn't working forme, I'm not happy, Like I'm not
enjoying it, it's making me agrumpy person.
(04:25):
So I pretty much like just setout and said I'm going to start
a business doing camping gear.
And yeah, that's sort of howthe story started.
What was your first product?
First product was a ultralighthammock.
How do you even start thatprocess.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Not many people in Australia make those things.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
No, okay.
So about a year before Iresigned from my full-time job,
maybe a couple of years before Iactually had started, alton on
the side with a mate and we wereboth working in retail.
He worked at Country Road, Iworked at Meijer.
We liked selling, we likedcamping, that whole passion
thing.
We were like let's start alittle business on the side and
(05:05):
see what happens.
And I think at the time we werekind of looking at like
overseas, what's like big, andwe saw these ultralight hammocks
in America were popular.
So, yeah, we just jumped onAlibaba and we started looking.
We're like, all right, we'llstart with a hammock, yeah, and
(05:25):
we got a batch put in a coupleof grand each and sold them to
mates mainly.
But yeah, a couple of yearslater we started to see like
we'd get an order and be like,oh, is this?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
one of your mates.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Like no, that's not one of my mates, oh, this must
be like a real customer.
And then, yeah, when I quit myjob, I sort of bought him out
and I went alone.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Started with the hammock.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah yep.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
So if anyone's looking for any products, it's
alibabacom.
It's got to start somewhere,that's it.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Obviously developed some big relationships since
then.
Yeah, and like you, look at ourhammock today.
Nothing like that.
Oh no, it's like the ninthiteration.
So, yeah's, you can get.
There's plenty of alibabahammocks out there, um, and
there's brands that sell off theshelf hammocks.
But yeah, ours is real, it'sone of our most thought through
products because it's the oldest, um, there's like the most
(06:17):
variations over the time.
yeah, we use like a six-wayripstop nylon which I I don't
think there's any other brand onthe market that uses that.
It means we can use a reallylightweight fabric.
It's super strong.
We use the tie-out loops andthe straps on the trees are made
of UHMWPE, which is essentiallyunbranded Dyneema Strongest
(06:38):
fabric material in the world, Ithink.
It's stronger than steel, theysay.
And yeah, I've got thedouble-ended storage bag which
means you can like deploy itreally quickly.
Anyway, it's a nice bit of kit.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah, we'll go through it.
We'll take a video of us usingit at some point.
What's its weight limit?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Because I'm a tiny guy.
Yeah, it can hold 300 kilograms.
So yeah, I've not met anyonethat goes over 300 kilos.
Beau, you asked me to ask thatquestion.
You can fit two people in thereif you need it.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
There's your answer Two skinny people and I'll stick
on the hammock for a second.
I actually haven't hopped in itand I will when we're finished.
But the general in my mind andquestion from other people when
I see them using it is do youjust end up in a bunch?
Because our centre of gravityis our top torso sectional, it's
not the middle of our body.
Do you think you find yourselfslouching down?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
to the bottom of it.
Yeah, so look, hammocks aredifferent for everyone, right?
But if you go down the realnerdy kind of hammock camper
route, you do what's called likea diagonal lay.
So if you turn your body on adiagonal you can get completely
flat.
But personally, like it doesn'tworry me, I sit in there as a
(07:51):
banana and I'm comfortable.
So it just comes down topersonal preference.
But you can get that flat layif you do the diagonal.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
And you're also not, you know, travelling with a full
Hilton hotel.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
The idea is you're lightweight, exactly, you're
trying to be as comfortable asyou can without carrying as much
yeah, yeah, it eliminates theneed for, like, a sleeping mat
and that sort of thing so youcan, like you said, you can hold
sleeping system right down to asuper compact little fundle.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Now why does the sleeping system go on?
So you started with the hammockand then you're into bags yeah,
so I think the tarp was likeone of our.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
The tarp was one of our early like successful, you
know products that got a lot ofum sort of people interested in
the brand um.
And then from that we sort oflike we marketed that tarp as
something that could be usedover a hammock system or a
ground system.
So we sort of use that as like,like our sort of um capstone
and then under that hammocksleeping system and then we
(08:48):
developed a ground sleepingsystem.
So we did the um.
You know, the whole range ofsleeping mats started out with
one mat and now we've gotprobably seven or eight
different varieties of sleepingmat, um that.
So you've got the ground systemand the hammock system and then
we'll probably eventually do atent as well.
But yeah, I guess we we sort ofjust follow where our customers
(09:09):
kind of want us to go andthere's input from with
internally.
But yeah, we're not, we're notmarried to any idea or anything
like that.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
We're open-minded and keen to try different things
and you mentioned your customerstraditionally, where they come
from and sort of what are theyusing your products for?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
So it's funny Like the brand has kind of gone in a
direction based on where ourcustomers were coming from early
on.
And then personally I gotinterested in those spaces and
it's interesting how the journeygoes.
But early on we had anoliveoured hammock and we
(09:48):
started getting bushcraftersbuying this hammock because
bushcrafters were interested inways that they could have a
compact sleep system, that theycould bring minimal equipment
and have a place to sleep.
So I started getting intobushcraft and looking into
bushcraft.
This was six, seven years agoand yeah, we sort of took quite
(10:09):
a bushcrafty direction in thebrand and now we're broadening
out to other sort of outdoorspaces.
But bushcraft was definitelylike a big influence in where
the brand started.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
And I know we spoke about it off air, but the impact
of COVID and like the timing ofyour business, yeah, and then
that causing yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
So I mean there were obviously a lot of unfortunate
things that happened duringCOVID, but for us it was
actually like a really goodboost for the business.
You had a lot of people thatcouldn't go overseas and, you
know, started holidaying intheir backyard, which was great.
There were big brands that ranout of stock, so people came to
(10:47):
us and during that kind of wholescaremongering phase of COVID,
bushcraft became really bigbecause it was all about how can
I survive in the bush andsurvive Coals run out of food?
Yeah, if coals runs out of foodor the electricity grid breaks
down, how can I survive?
So yeah, it was reallyfortunate for us.
It really helped boost thebusiness and brought a whole lot
(11:08):
of new eyeballs to the brand.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, Well, full disclosure.
I haven't known about Altonthat long, to be honest, but I
had two clients recently, jack'sone of them sitting over there
and I had a friend of mine, drYannick, come on on a hunt and
they both had a fair amount ofyour stuff and Yannick's got the
full sleeping system, hammock,ground set up as well and car.
(11:33):
I've got sleeping quarters setup at my block where we hunt and
he's like nah, it's all good,I've got my own.
I was like you're an idiot.
Anyway, he set it up and we hadrain and hail and all sorts of
things and he was substantiallydry and he was quite happy about
that.
I was like what is that stuffhe said out on?
He said it three times, whichmeans my Facebook algorithm
jumped on yeah, it's good, andnow it's all been seeing in the
(11:54):
ads?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Has he had our gear for a long time, yannick, I?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
feel like yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Because that name rings a bell.
He's in WA.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, I'm sure a fair bit opposed to him.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, Because back in the day, like early on, we were
writing handwritten notes toevery customer Right and that
name rings a bell Because it's aterrible one to spell.
Oh, that's probably why itstands out as well.
Oh.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yannick, but no, so they introduced me and I could
see it online and obviously itwas getting pushed to me through
the sponsored ads and things.
But looking through theproducts I'm like man, there's a
whole lot of crossover intowhat my interests are in the
hunting which is outside of theguiding is the backpacking and
the backcountry stuff.
(12:35):
Yep, and I know we spoke thismorning about the sizes of
things and how small you've beenable to get it, and one of the
things you put up is a photo ofsort of where you started with
something and then every coupleof years the product's getting
smaller.
Yeah, that's our hammock, theone I was.
Yeah, so like, how far can youpush it?
Like where does it just end upas a little.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, it's interesting Like we focus on
ultralight but to be honest,it's not like the one thing.
So when it starts to degrade,like the durability of the
product, we stop.
So you'll find like ourproducts aren't the lightest,
they're lighter.
The lighter ones are moreexpensive and in some cases,
(13:15):
less durable.
So we just try and find thatmiddle ground.
We try and have the best ofboth worlds of ultralight but
ultra-durable.
So yeah, the approach I've hadwith this brand from the
beginning is like bang for buck.
You know that's money andthat's also like carrying weight
(13:35):
.
So you don't want to carrysomething that's just going to
blow over in the next gust ofwind.
You know you want somethingthat's going to last and be
tough, but you don't wantsomething that's super heavy
either.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I mentioned to a few people that was coming up here
to have the chat and they'relike oh, that's pretty cool.
This stuff seems to be on par,if not better than the big names
, but at a better price point.
So that's definitely workingand being noticed.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, and that comes with being a direct-to-consumer
brand.
You can try and stay that way.
Yeah, and that comes with beinga direct to consumer brand.
So it's um, yeah, absolutely so.
Like we, we aim to have ourproducts spec as the same as the
really high end brands.
Um, but we have the benefitthat we're selling online direct
to the customer, so we don'thave to.
Um, you know, the the storedoesn't need to make a profit.
(14:21):
Where we make the profit, whichmeans we don't need to make, we
don't need to sell it as high aprice you can make 30% selling
to the public, or you can make30% selling wholesale.
Exactly that's right.
And then the wholesaler willadd up their 50, 100% on top of
that.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
And that makes it tricky.
And obviously during thedevelopment process you've had
some fails along the way andthings that just didn't work for
you yeah, the stories ofgetting massively wet, or
there's things that didn't workoh, honestly, I try and I try
and bury those like there's beenso many.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
There's been so many sleepless nights I was telling
jack off air about.
Um, he said to me.
The comment he made was ourcolor seems to be a really
important thing and I'm like,yeah, you know it's.
It's very important thateverything looks the same and
everything's the same colour.
It's part of our brand now andwe did have a, which is not why
we're colour-coded.
Yeah, we should have beenwearing all of it.
(15:14):
We did have a batch of productswhich has sold through now and
I won't mention, but the colourwas off by like a fraction and
I'm I'm a pretty bigperfectionist and, like my staff
will tell you, there are a badcouple of days.
After that came through, I waslike I was just depressed, like
I was like I can't, we're not,we're going to figure out a way
(15:37):
to just we're gonna have to getrid of all this product, like
we're gonna have to bin it.
We can't sell this Customer's,we can't sell this.
Did customers notice?
No one's noticed ever.
Yep, literally no one.
Free returns on those products.
No, there's nothing wrong withthe product and, to be honest,
it was.
It just shows the attention todetail yeah it was internal,
Like I had good people around mesaying mate, like you're
(15:59):
overthinking this one.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
I get that as a business owner, it's important
to have that consistency andcontinuity.
I mean we try to do it withwhat we do.
Yeah, I notice it here.
I mean everything isconsistently green.
Yeah, except there's someshirts over there.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah, so with the… there's breaking colour.
Yeah, with apparel it'sobviously a little bit different
.
People want to, you know, notwear the same colour every day.
We're not, like I've said,we're not married to anything,
you know.
We're open to the next thingand we'll eventually do
(16:34):
different colours.
It's been a financial thing,the colour idea.
So it's instead of having tobuy, like you know, 3,000 of
something because it's threedifferent colours, we can buy
1,000, which means we can bringout two other new products.
That's the reason we've donethe whole olive colour and, to
be honest, I love it and a lotof customers love it too.
You're married to it now.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah, on the crossover conversation I
purchased a couple of weeks agothis is your fold-out the
closed-cell mat, the closed-cellmat and the same version but in
the sitting pad, and I've laidon the mat inside.
I haven't taken it hunting yet,but I've been out and used the
sitting pad and Jack saidsomething this morning and I
hadn't considered it.
But that time when you're doingthat glassing is late afternoon
(17:17):
and early morning and that'swhen it starts to get really
cold.
And one kept my butt dry, yep,but you've got the foil, yeah,
on the bottom, yep, thatactually keeps your bum warm.
Yeah, that's right, and it's astronger pattern, you're saying,
than the lay down one, becauseyou know you've got a lot more
weight on a smaller.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yeah, the pointy sort of bum bones that go into it.
It's just that little bitthicker and what's it weigh
overall?
Oh, you're putting me on thespot here.
I reckon it's 200 and somethinggrand it's even less than that,
is it?
Speaker 1 (17:48):
It's not fair.
Anyway, we'll check that outand correct that.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
It's not much anyway.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
It's super light and tiny, but it's not something I
ever carried.
You just dealt with it.
Yeah yeah, but to add that tothe pack because it's not
something I would carry on everyhunt.
But if I know there's anopportunity to sit and wait, it
just goes in there now.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah, and it takes up no space as well, Folds down
inside itself.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I actually used it as a we had a little fire going
and I actually put it up aroundit as well.
Yeah right, turn it the otherway, and it pushed the heat back
to where you got it far enoughaway it doesn't catch a light.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Could you?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
So if we get away from the sleeping system, you've
also gone into, I mean, wheretitanium and things and there on
the light.
You nearly burnt your fingerwhen you dipped your finger in
because titanium is not doingyour heat things.
But you've got cook sets aswell and stoves.
What?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
else have we got in the cookware?
So yeah, we've got essentiallyyour whole kitchen.
So you've got cutlery cups,bowls, plates, what about your
little Cookware?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, your little stove.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
The twig stove.
Yeah yeah, you can see thatjust out over there Does it take
long to boil.
No, it's really quick.
It gets super hot compared to aLike a jet boil.
When you look at a jet boilit's got quite a narrow stream
of gas.
But yeah, you can put as muchtwigs in there as you want to
(19:13):
and really get it firing.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
One benefit of the jet boil is you can't fly with
gas.
Yeah, We've all been there, youcan always get twigs.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
I've been pulled up in the airport with that too.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, and the benefit too is it packs flat, so it
just packs into.
I saw that.
I saw that it's like less than10 mil thick.
Yeah, it's been such asuccessful product.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
I'm not defying everything unless you're above
the snow line somewhere in NewZealand?
Exactly, yeah, but the onething I was really excited about
seeing here was your newwaterproof material.
Yeah, yep.
So the nano-pointer I want toget into the nitty-gritty in
that because it's somethingthat's really important in my
pack.
Even if it's 38 degrees andsunny, my reindeer Yep, people
don't pack it.
I always pack it, because evena summer storm at the wrong time
(19:55):
of day, ruin your trip.
Ruin your trip, yep.
So how did you end up like it'sa new product into Australia
and I haven't worn the clothing,but I've seen the way the
fabric works.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
There's one behind you, actually that's an early
sample.
There's one behind you,actually, that's an early sample
Right Green of course.
Yeah, this one's actually gotgreen zips on it, but we went
with the black for a bit ofcontrast in the bulk order.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Mix it up a bit, yeah , but what's the design of the
fabric and why is it?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, so it's a three-layer fabric.
So listeners will be familiarwith some of the big brands out
there like Gore-Tex, pertex.
They're three-layer breathablefabrics.
So the benefit of them iswaterproof but let air through,
so breathable essentially like abreathable rain jacket, because
(20:40):
if you want to keep rain offyourself, you can wrap a garbage
bag around you and keep wateroff, but you'll sweat inside it.
So we yeah, there was, it waspretty fortuitous, like right
place, right time Met a fabricscientist who worked at a big
fabric company in the US andwent out on his own, wanted to
(21:03):
work with someone to develop athree-layer breathable fabric,
but one that was made in a moresustainable manner to some of
the other big brands.
There's some pretty nastychemicals and whatnot in those
other fabrics and also, onceyou're done with them, they
don't biodegrade very well.
(21:23):
So, yeah, we worked with thisguy and we developed Nanopore
over about a year and a half andit's, yeah, it performs at that
high level like superbreathable, super waterproof,
over 20,000 breathability andwaterproof.
But it's that more sustainableapproach.
It doesn't have the carcinogensin it that some of these other
(21:46):
fabrics do, but yeah, it's been,it's been awesome, like it's so
cool to like have a like.
We're not the biggest brand inthe world, but to have, like,
this market leading fabric ispretty awesome.
Um, it's, yeah, it's been superexciting and it's, um it's,
it's really helped us sort oflike get the brand out there and
, um, get people interested.
(22:06):
So it's been perfect for thejacket and the swag having that
breathability and waterproofnessand, yeah, we're keen to like
bring out, you know, futureproducts using this fabric.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
How do you treat it long term?
One issue I have with my raingear is it's waterproof
initially.
But then one thing I did a lotof horse riding in Canada and
you'd wear your waterproof stuffbut just the branches you would
push it through was actuallypushing the water in.
Yeah, it wasn't drip, it wasdrip proof, but not from this
constant and the snow would fallon your lap while you're riding
(22:40):
and would just work its wayinto the fabric and I hadn't
treated it very well.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, there's some like important care.
Yeah, so the.
The beauty of this fabric isthat it doesn't need to be
treated.
So, um, ever, ever, yeah so the.
The way that, like a lot ofthese other fabrics, work is
they've got waterproof coatingson them right, and then after a
year or two you're told to youknow, respray it with um, with
(23:05):
the water repellent, um sort ofchemical.
Essentially.
Ours, ours has a membrane, sothe middle layer of the three
layers is a membrane.
It's essentially got nanoscopicholes in it that allow air to
go through but won't let thewater-sized molecules back
through.
So it's hardware.
(23:29):
There's nothing like it doesn'twear away or anything like that
.
Like a chemical on the outsidedoes a coating.
It's not a treatment.
Exactly so it's.
Yeah, it doesn't need to betreated is the short answer to
your question.
Yeah, yeah, it's pricey though.
Yeah, you know, if you get ajacket that's just like a single
waterproof coating on it, it'sgoing to cost less.
(23:51):
But you know this has been agear wheel last year for you
know many years.
What's the price point?
So the jackets are $479 at timeof recording and the swag is
$699.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I've paid $700 for a waterproof jacket.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, look it's a lot of money, but it's not at the
top right, it's still not at thetop.
Yeah, like the competitor.
Like I said, it's for serious,serious expedition, yeah, like
$479 for a three-layer jacket isgreat value, but it's a lot of
money for the average punter.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
I get that, but if you're getting the longevity of
it, that's right.
It's something you're going touse all the time.
Exactly, I've seen you, youknow, couple up with a couple of
people and you've got the Alconedit that sits in here, yep,
and you do some things.
How do those sort ofrelationships come about and how
have you seen that grow thebusiness?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, so, like we often get asked this question, a
majority of our relationshipshave been really organic
customers.
Yeah, so, like scotty's likeprobably you know one of the
biggest people we work with andhe just bought one of our
products as a customer back inlike 2016 probably.
(25:03):
Um, I was working out of mygarage at home and I'd just gone
off out by myself, away from mybusiness partner, um, and yeah,
like I look back and I'm likeembarrassed, the product we sold
Scotty right, because it wasjust such an.
We were early on like we didn'tknow anything back then.
Um, but yeah, we just sort ofgrew together.
(25:26):
You know, scotty's becomemassive and, um, you know, we've
grown as well and it's justbeen a symbiotic, kind of like
organic friendship I suppose.
And then in recent years we'vewe've brought out like a product
together and it's become alittle bit more formal and that
sort of thing.
But, um, yeah, that was reallyorganic.
And then, you know, throughscotty meet people like silly
(25:46):
and um, yeah, it's the outdoorcommunity, I feel it's not that
big in Australia.
You sort of get to know peopleand become friends and then,
yeah, you work together onthings.
So we might work together onsomething, who knows.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Stay tuned, we'll work on that.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
What's it like for you?
How do you meet people?
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I talk to a lot of people yeah, a lot of people,
and I'm always on the phone.
My wife says to me why are youalways on the phone?
And then she'll say I use thisexample, I gave this the other
day and it hasn't happened, butit's an example.
We've got this antique piece ofchina.
Do you know anyone that canhelp me appraise that?
I'm like, yes, I do, that'ssuch and such and such and such,
because I speak to such, that'sniche, you know.
So that's the problem.
(26:28):
I, I talk to people and then Ifind out their niche strengths,
yeah, and then I just make thatin my terrible memory.
And you know, and then at somepoint I really I thrive on
connecting people, yeah, people,yeah, and that's the guiding I.
You know, I take people hunting, I watch them enjoy something,
and then I get my enjoyment outof it.
I can connect them with amemory or experience yeah,
(26:48):
another good.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Another good example is Gordon Dedman from Bushcraft
Survival Australia.
So I had bushcrafters buyingour gear so I wanted to learn
everything about bushcraft.
So I went and did three of hiscourses.
Which ones did you do?
One, two, three, yeah, up tothe.
To be honest, in the earliestone I did the structures changed
since then but I did like anintermediate.
(27:11):
All of them were up in Darwinand you know like I could turn
up on day one and not knowanything.
And now, like I talk withGordon on the phone and we
discuss product ideas and I gethis feedback Never a short
conversation with Gordon either.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
I spent a couple of days with Gordon on two
different courses.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
I spent a couple of days on the phone with him, yeah
.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
That I spent a couple of days on two different
courses.
I spent a couple of days on thephone with him yeah, that's
before he gets to talking aboutproducts.
We supplied him with a heap ofskins.
He had a Teresa lady come overfrom the States.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
The skin tending course.
I supplied the skins for thosecourses and she's coming back
again.
But yeah, he's a greatconversation.
Yeah, a lot of knowledge,definitely in that area, but
that's a great connection fromyour business point of view.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yeah, and again it was all organic, like I did a
course with him, had a beer withhim after the course, started
chatting on the phone.
You know, just friendships thatsounds like.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Gordon, where's it going?
Where you are now is not whereyou imagined you'd be.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
no, no, not at all.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Uh, yeah, it's did you have imaginary goals and
you've smashed them, or they'rejust different directions or, um
, like, what's the nice to haveat five years time?
Obviously you got thisbeautiful warehouse and space
yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Like I, I think it constantly evolves.
When I was working as anaccountant in an office, I hoped
to have something in my garageat home, and when I was doing
that, I hoped to have a smallwarehouse, which then, when I
had the small warehouse, I wantto have a bigger warehouse.
So I think it just evolves.
Don't try and think too farahead and as to where it goes.
(28:51):
Like it, yeah, that changes.
Like it, it goes where ourcustomers sort of want it to go
and the team like now I've got afew staff around me, so where
you know we talk internally, um,and you know, we've seen in the
last five, six years, thingschange.
Like things change quickly.
So it, yeah, we're just tryingto not think too far ahead.
(29:12):
We just try and make sure thatwhat we're doing is the best we
can do for ourselves, for thecustomers, for everyone involved
.
Try and just keep high quality,high attention to detail and
just make sure we're enjoyingourselves.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
I want to circle back to your swag build that you did
with Scotty.
One thing I've been dealingwith lately is the last 18
months is an incredible amountof leeches down in our area.
Okay, and we just had a localhunting club had a trip up to
Nundle State Forest and Icouldn't make it, but the
leeches up there have beenreally bad and there's a story
(29:49):
about one guy doing the servebill of salt around his swag on
the ground.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah right.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Okay and I'm interested.
I can see that they can't getin, but what went into the
design of a swag.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
So that's actually the bug net tent A swag's a
different product which is noton display because we're sold
out.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
You sold a display model.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
We just don't put it here because then people come in
and go I want that one and weneed to keep a couple, you know.
Um, so this product here, um,that was and this is the bug net
tent for people who obviouslycan't see it.
Um, that was really designedaround the like Northern
Territory dry season.
(30:33):
That's really what it was aimedtowards.
Um, there was and this is thisis myself and Gordon chatting
this product.
So, um, for those of you thatare familiar, like the military
in Australia uses like a box bugnet.
Um, we actually ended up makinga box bug net with, like a
built-in floor, which you knowwas something that we heard.
(30:53):
It was missing and like, keepgoing down that road.
And we ended up with thisproduct, which there were things
.
There were issues with the boxbug net that the military uses.
It's like a bit of a nightmareto set up.
You've got four corners thatneed to tie out.
You can't like put it upstandalone.
So that you know, there werejust little bits and pieces with
that that we wanted to improveand, yeah, we landed on this and
(31:15):
people often ask oh, it's notwaterproof, what do you do if it
rains?
The idea of this product isit's modular.
It's designed really for a dryseason sort of climate going out
when you know there's not goingto be rain and if there is rain
(31:37):
you can bring a light, shelterum, and then those two, exactly
yeah, and it's all modular.
It's like you only take whatyou need, yeah, and it packs
down pretty small too oh nothing, yeah, size of a water bottle.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
But uh, and what about the swag?
I mean, so I have a swag, yeah.
So that I mean, like everyother one has a swag big canvas
yep thing that's this side, thisround and yep, yeah.
So that, like every other onehas a swag, a big canvas thing
that's this size this round.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yep, yeah, so that was like a….
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Is the swag a backpack item?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Yeah, it is.
Yeah, so Scotty actually cameto me and was like you know,
there's room for a swag.
That's not massive, like we allknow.
Now you drive down the highwayand people have got the swags on
their roof because they don'tfit in the car.
Like that's how big they are,the big king's doubles.
Yeah, they need a trailer forthe swag.
Yeah, um, bigger than a tent,when they're meant to be smaller
(32:18):
.
So, and it was funny because hecame to me with that and I was
like I've actually been thinkingabout the same thing for a
couple of years and then fromthere we sort of, yeah, got to
work on designing it and it'ssimple, it's a swag that packs
down small.
You don't have to, you know,have a trailer to carry it.
So it's probably like a littlebit heavier than like taking a
(32:42):
tent, but it's a different thing.
It's a different experience, aswe all know, like the joy of
sleeping in a swag.
Right, it's nicer than sleepingin a tent.
You're a little bit moreexposed to the environment.
Um, I'm for hunting.
It's probably better becauseyou want more visibility.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Um yeah, that's how it came about.
Yeah, well, I'm, and we've gotall these yeah, we've got a.
We've got a safe out the back Iwas uh going through the
products with the what and she'slike, oh, I want, I want the
double sleeping mat.
I don't need it.
We've got the big double kingswag.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Now it feels like we're going to end up with
another swag.
Yeah, all of our stuff's reallybeen quite individual and I
think it probably lends itselfto our customer.
As we speak, we're mainly likea male consumers probably 75, 80
percent um guys that are doinghardcore activities like you
know hunting, bushcraft, etc.
(33:38):
So that generally lends itselfto an individual style sleep
setup.
But recently, you know, there'sbeen a lot more couples um
shopping from us so we movedinto that double sleeping mat
and we've got other double sleepsetups in the works, most
likely one of these bug nettents in a double size, um.
But yeah, all that stuff'shappening in the background.
(33:59):
That's a double size.
You just need to spoon eachother.
Yeah, exactly, it'd be acomfortable night.
They'd be very close yeah, I,yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
I want to have a tip.
If there's any stories in yourback catalogue of your own
personal camping trips, yeah,and you're like, how have you
incorporated your products intoyour own trips?
And I think about the swagversus the hammock set up.
A lot of the places I huntdoesn't have a flat spot.
(34:31):
Yeah, it's got trees, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I mean, look to be honest with you, I'm probably
more of a ground sleeper.
I've used the hammock system.
There are so many benefits withhammock camping, right, because
you're not on the ground,you're up off the wet.
It packs down small et ceteraTemperature, yeah, so with the
hammock there's two solutions totemperature.
You can put a sleeping matinside it which will block the
(34:58):
wind flow under your backbecause they're quite breathable
, which is great for summer.
But there's also an underquiltwhich I don't know if you can
see that over there.
That's an underquilt.
Essentially it's a sleeping bagthat wraps around the bottom of
your body.
Um, it's a big investment.
You want to be a pretty keenhammock camper but it's honestly
(35:19):
I, if I was going to the snowlike I think that would be the
most comfortable, most warm outof the weather setup you could
have is under quilt, top quilthammock.
No matter like what sleepingmat you're using, it's got a
huge R value.
You were down in the snow.
It's going to be cold, it'sgoing to be a bit uncomfortable.
But to answer your questionabout personal experience, I
(35:42):
actually had back in the daylike a fully nylon bivy, right.
So a bivy is essentially alightweight swag.
Our product could be called abivvy and yeah, I was like this
is fantastic.
It packs down so small, it waslike $150 because it was nylon
(36:09):
and yeah, I slept out in it abunch of times.
Then one night the rain camethrough and like I slept out in
it a bunch of times.
Then one night the rain camethrough and like it was all
sealed up and just thecondensation, like it was just I
woke up.
I mean, I didn't even fallasleep, I was covered in water
and that's the reason that wewent for this breathable
material.
Right is, if it gets humid inthere which when you're
breathing all night, if you'reall shut up, it gets humid, it
(36:31):
escapes.
Exactly, it has a way to escape.
And yeah, I mean, this was justa.
I've never used it again, itwas a piece of junk, it was just
a capsule of water really Backto the hammocks.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
You spoke about a sleeping.
What do you call it?
The top piece?
Top quill, top quill?
You spoke about it sleeping.
What do you call it?
The top piece, top quilt, topquilt?
Yes, and I don't know who itwas recently.
It actually might have beenJack, but talking about sleeping
bags, when you're laying onthem, there's no benefit to the
piece because it's allcompressed, that's right.
Yes, so the warmth in a bagcomes from the loftiness of the
material trapping your body heat.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Yeah, so it doesn't work.
When you um the, the air getstrapped in the feathers and
warmed up by your body.
So if the feathers are flat,the air can't get trapped in
anything.
So, yeah, technically, with asleeping bag, the bit that your
body's weight is on is flattenedand it's got no use.
(37:31):
So that's, that was the reasonbehind bringing out quilts.
A quilt is essentially asleeping bag.
It's got the back cut out of it.
Um, still a tubular of yourfeet, yep, still tubular.
Oh, there's different varieties.
Ours closes in fully aroundyour feet.
Some of them can zip open.
We went for the fully wrappedin, um, like closed in one,
because there's a way, that sortof like, you can get through a
(37:53):
zip and in in.
In my mind you're only using itwhen it's cold, you know.
So that's why we went for theclosed in and we like to keep
things simple, less things tobreak.
But yeah, that's the wholebenefit of a quilt.
And then, by removing thatsection out of the back, you can
go a little bit wider.
So you're, like you know, morelike your bed at home, a bit
more comfortable, and it's alsolighter because you've removed
(38:25):
that whole section from yourback, but in saying that, like
there's something snug and andsecure about a sleeping bag,
right?
yeah, exactly, and you know, Iknow that I roll around a lot,
so it, which you can do in aquilt, but you know, with a
sleeping bag you might want toroll and then that down will,
will lost out.
You know the bit that you'vejust lifted up, but the thing
about a quilt, too, is that youhave to have a good sleeping mat
, because that will create thatwarmth under your body.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
One thing that Yannick had, and it's just
sleeping mat cover.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
The fitted sheet, the pillow.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
That's important.
I've spent a lot of timesleeping mats and age and the
time you're next to it.
Yeah, like you slip off.
Yep, it just pops out the sideyeah, so the fit half, you're
not getting back on it.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
The fitted sheet was like such a simple yeah, it's a
simple idea but like, no, I'm noof one other brand that doesn't
, they're really rare and, um,there's a few benefits to it.
Like you said, it gives youthat extra grip so you don't
slip off.
It holds your pillow in place,which is great because you don't
lose it during the night.
And the other one the big oneis a sleeping mat is a
(39:28):
completely like impenetrableplastic or nylon, right when you
think about it, so you're goingto sweat and stick to it by
having that sheet.
Yeah, and it just creates thatlike softness of like a bed at
home.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
So again, if you're in this, you know the Flynet one
in summer and you've got thaton there.
You don't really need asleeping bag, you could just lay
on it.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
You could yeah, you really could or you could use
like our.
We've got like a summersleeping bag, packs down super,
super tiny and it's just thatlittle bit of like cover for the
morning.
You know when that little bitof coolness comes through just
before sunrise.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Yeah, where do we see it going product-wise in the
future?
I mean, just filled up youreskies with the baskets and the
dividers.
Yeah, with the crates overthere and then getting into the
clothing.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Yeah, so look, there's a lot of sampling
happening in the background.
If I had to categorise, likewhere it was going, it's
probably like more of the same,I guess, with just like sort of
minor movements into newcategories.
But yeah, like a lot ofsleeping system stuff happening.
(40:39):
And then probably the biggestarea that we want to get more
into is bags and packing andthat sort of stuff.
There's been a lot of requestsfrom customers for that.
So yeah, it's taken a bit oftime but we want to get it right
.
So you know, we have to samplequite a bit and get the
materials right and the designsright and all that sort of stuff
.
It takes time.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Yeah, it does.
I saw the other day on your VIPpage on Facebook.
Jack put the photo up but yoursleeping bag got used on alone.
Yeah yeah, did you know thatwas?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
No, some smartass put a comment on there saying, oh,
it's a marketing company orsomething or other.
But I only knew about that whenI saw it get uploaded.
I had no idea.
Yeah, it's awesome, it'sfantastic.
Yeah, it's one of those momentswhere you're like, oh wow,
(41:31):
people really believe in us.
That's so good.
We've been working hard to makethese good products, especially
that show.
I mean good products andespecially that show.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
I mean, people are going to that show now, knowing
what they're in for.
Yeah, so they buy appropriateequipment, yeah and fuels falls
in that category.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
That's exciting yeah, no, it was honestly like so
cool to see um, and I know frompersonal experience like that,
uh, I know a few people thathave worked that we both know
who have worked on that show andit's, yeah, they don't want to
show brands, you know, it's notabout that.
(42:04):
It's all about the people andtheir experience, you know, and
what they're doing.
It's not about the products.
So pretty cool to like to havethat little flash of the product
on there.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, it needs to go on your socials.
Yeah, we'll work on that.
Yeah, well, thanks for havingus in the shop.
It's uh, it's impressive to seethe stuff.
I'm excited to see where itgoes in the future.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
I'm excited to see how it crosses over into my
world yeah, we're um, we'redefinitely, like I've said to
you, off air, like we have notlike targeted hunting as a
customer, and not because wedon't want to, but it's just.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
That was my question to sam, I was like, because you
look at companies sometimes thataren't in the hunting space,
but new products, and sometimesthat's a business choice yeah,
to provide products that suitthat market, but we don't want
to be seen in that marketspecifically and yeah, it's um,
I'm here.
So, sam, I like shooting stuffyeah, um.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
No, we'll work on that.
Yeah, it's um, I've looked atit's time.
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, well, Idon't have a um.
What are you gonna have areason, a property to go to?
Yeah, I've.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, a genuine reason A property, to use it on.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
I've probably got a genuine reason, but I just need
to figure out what it is.
But yeah, it's just, we've been, you know, we've grown a lot in
the last six, seven years andwe're sort of at capacity at the
moment with what we do.
So as time goes by, we'll, youknow, expand into these
different categories, or atleast marketing to those
(43:39):
categories and interacting withthem a little bit.
They're already selling into it.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Exactly, yeah, it's a byproduct.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah, we're well aware of that market and, like,
for us, we just try to do whatwe do best, which is making like
high-quality gear that lasts along time and has like a nice
aesthetic to it and, fortunately, like that aesthetic lends
itself nicely to to um hunting.
So we're aware of that customer.
It's just a matter of findingthe time to do activities with
(44:07):
that customer.
Another one is um motorbikecamping.
Yeah, like, yeah, we littlepennies on the thing they got to
fit everything in there.
It's such a massive customerfor us but we just have no no
one here does that right.
So we need to start lookinginto that market and those
(44:29):
community events and that sortof stuff.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yeah, some guys on the back of their bike with the
hammock set up.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah, they love it.
They love it.
It's interesting how there'sdifferent activities.
You don't even realize thatlike your product is like, it's
perfect for that yeah, and youknow cookware and things,
everything lightweight yeah,that's it, lightweight sturdy,
exactly, yeah, yeah, right now.
Thanks for having us here onthe show.
No, thank you for coming up,appreciate it.
(44:54):
No, thanks very much, lookforward to talking again soon.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Bye for now.
Music.
It's an early morning andthat's when it starts to get
really cold.
Mm-hmm.
And one kept my butt dry, yep,but you've got the foil on the
bottom, yep, it actually givesyou a bum warm.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah, that's right, gordon Dedman from Bushcraft
Survival Australia.
So I had bushcrafters buyingour gear so I wanted to learn
everything about bushcraft.
So I went and did three of hiscourses.
Yeah, did you know that was no,some smartass put a comment on
there saying it's a marketingcompany or something or other,
but I only knew about that whenI saw the sort of get uploaded.
(00:40):
I had no idea.
Yeah, it's awesome, it'sfantastic.
Like, yeah, it's um.
One of those moments whereyou're like, oh, wow, like
people really believe in us,like that's so good, like we've
been working hard to make thesegood products and welcome back
(01:02):
to another episode of accuratehunared Hunts.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
A wife outdoors, but today we're actually indoors
with Outdoors Company.
Welcome to the show, sam.
Thanks, dodge, thanks forhaving me.
This is Sam from Alton Goodsand a bit of a journey on.
This.
One Reached out to Sam and hesaid oh, we're in Brisbane.
I said, oh, okay, I'll be therein a few days.
So we're flying up to spend theday here and see what's going
(01:26):
on in the factory, check out theproducts and have a bit of chat
and see if we can swindle theminto getting some
hunting-related contenthappening on the socials, always
open.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Thanks for having us.
No, thank you.
Thanks for coming up to thislittle bush hut.
We've got out in the sticks yes, in the sticks, a couple of
hours west of Brisbane.
The sticks meaning pine pallets.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Sorry, I guess western brisbane the sticks
meaning pine pallets.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Sorry, I guess, but uh, what does alton mean?
What?
Where's the word come from?
So it's actually the name of anational park in western
queensland.
So alton national park, um, youhave some affinity with it.
I really like westernqueensland.
Um, my old man's fromcharleville so um done a few
trips out there and was inspiredby like the just the ruggedness
of the place and it's just sortof like impossible to survive
(02:10):
out there almost.
So that sort of inspired me tosort of yeah, like with the gear
that we create, we want it tobe really hardy, really tough
and for those like really toughparts of Australia.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
So now you think you can survive out there.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
No no, no, it's a no way, but, um, look, it was, it
was that, but the name alsolooked really cool.
So there's um, there's nodenying that.
I saw the name and I was like,oh, that that looks pretty cool
as well.
Um, it's got like a good, niceand short, good structure to it.
It's also a sort of the start.
Yeah, that's something I neverthought about.
But, um, I remember doing atrade show down in Melbourne and
(02:43):
like we were top of the listand I was like, oh, you know,
we're nobody's in the back.
Your hands, ac.
Yeah, there you go, there yougo.
So you've done the same.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, not on purpose, but and at start, like you know
, this is from a personalventure of you're into backpack
and hiking yeah, so, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
So through school, I mean as a kid, my parents always
took us camping, probablybecause we couldn't afford to do
any other holidays, but it was,you know, looking back, it was
like it's just really fondmemories as a kid, going camping
with mum and dad and mysiblings.
And then in high school I gotinto Duke of Edinburgh, which is
(03:24):
like for those of you thatdon't know, it's like an outdoor
program among other things.
You do some community serviceand whatnot, but a big part of
it is the expeditions.
So myself and my close mates athigh school did a lot of stuff
with Duke of Edinburgh and thatreally, like you know, as
teenagers, like got us into thissort of thing that we really
(03:44):
loved doing.
You know we love getting nicegear and going out and doing
cool trips.
And then, yeah, into uni.
I continued that on with mymates.
We'd go hiking, camping, allsorts of stuff, bit of hunting,
and I became an accountant outof university and I hated it.
So I did that for five years,got my CA.
(04:04):
Just couldn't stand like onemore day in that office.
It just was not for me.
So I guess I had a bit of amid-twenties crisis and I
resigned and I looked within andwas like what am I actually
passionate about?
Like what do I want to do as ajob?
Because this isn't working forme, I'm not happy, Like I'm not
enjoying it, it's making me agrumpy person.
(04:25):
So I pretty much like just setout and said I'm going to start
a business doing camping gear.
And yeah, that's sort of howthe story started.
What was your first product?
First product was a ultralighthammock.
How do you even start thatprocess.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Not many people in Australia make those things.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
No, okay.
So about a year before Iresigned from my full-time job,
maybe a couple of years before Iactually had started, alton on
the side with a mate and we wereboth working in retail.
He worked at Country Road, Iworked at Meijer.
We liked selling, we likedcamping, that whole passion
thing.
We were like let's start alittle business on the side and
(05:05):
see what happens.
And I think at the time we werekind of looking at like
overseas, what's like big, andwe saw these ultralight hammocks
in America were popular.
So, yeah, we just jumped onAlibaba and we started looking.
We're like, all right, we'llstart with a hammock, yeah, and
(05:25):
we got a batch put in a coupleof grand each and sold them to
mates mainly.
But yeah, a couple of yearslater we started to see like
we'd get an order and be like,oh, is this?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
one of your mates.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Like no, that's not one of my mates, oh, this must
be like a real customer.
And then, yeah, when I quit myjob, I sort of bought him out
and I went alone.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Started with the hammock.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah yep.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
So if anyone's looking for any products, it's
alibabacom.
It's got to start somewhere,that's it.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Obviously developed some big relationships since
then.
Yeah, and like you, look at ourhammock today.
Nothing like that.
Oh no, it's like the ninthiteration.
So, yeah's, you can get.
There's plenty of alibabahammocks out there, um, and
there's brands that sell off theshelf hammocks.
But yeah, ours is real, it'sone of our most thought through
products because it's the oldest, um, there's like the most
(06:17):
variations over the time.
yeah, we use like a six-wayripstop nylon which I I don't
think there's any other brand onthe market that uses that.
It means we can use a reallylightweight fabric.
It's super strong.
We use the tie-out loops andthe straps on the trees are made
of UHMWPE, which is essentiallyunbranded Dyneema Strongest
(06:38):
fabric material in the world, Ithink.
It's stronger than steel, theysay.
And yeah, I've got thedouble-ended storage bag which
means you can like deploy itreally quickly.
Anyway, it's a nice bit of kit.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah, we'll go through it.
We'll take a video of us usingit at some point.
What's its weight limit?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Because I'm a tiny guy.
Yeah, it can hold 300 kilograms.
So yeah, I've not met anyonethat goes over 300 kilos.
Beau, you asked me to ask thatquestion.
You can fit two people in thereif you need it.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
There's your answer Two skinny people and I'll stick
on the hammock for a second.
I actually haven't hopped in itand I will when we're finished.
But the general in my mind andquestion from other people when
I see them using it is do youjust end up in a bunch?
Because our centre of gravityis our top torso sectional, it's
not the middle of our body.
Do you think you find yourselfslouching down?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
to the bottom of it.
Yeah, so look, hammocks aredifferent for everyone, right?
But if you go down the realnerdy kind of hammock camper
route, you do what's called likea diagonal lay.
So if you turn your body on adiagonal you can get completely
flat.
But personally, like it doesn'tworry me, I sit in there as a
(07:51):
banana and I'm comfortable.
So it just comes down topersonal preference.
But you can get that flat layif you do the diagonal.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
And you're also not, you know, travelling with a full
Hilton hotel.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
The idea is you're lightweight, exactly, you're
trying to be as comfortable asyou can without carrying as much
yeah, yeah, it eliminates theneed for, like, a sleeping mat
and that sort of thing so youcan, like you said, you can hold
sleeping system right down to asuper compact little fundle.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Now why does the sleeping system go on?
So you started with the hammockand then you're into bags yeah,
so I think the tarp was likeone of our.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
The tarp was one of our early like successful, you
know products that got a lot ofum sort of people interested in
the brand um.
And then from that we sort oflike we marketed that tarp as
something that could be usedover a hammock system or a
ground system.
So we sort of use that as like,like our sort of um capstone
and then under that hammocksleeping system and then we
(08:48):
developed a ground sleepingsystem.
So we did the um.
You know, the whole range ofsleeping mats started out with
one mat and now we've gotprobably seven or eight
different varieties of sleepingmat, um that.
So you've got the ground systemand the hammock system and then
we'll probably eventually do atent as well.
But yeah, I guess we we sort ofjust follow where our customers
(09:09):
kind of want us to go andthere's input from with
internally.
But yeah, we're not, we're notmarried to any idea or anything
like that.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
We're open-minded and keen to try different things
and you mentioned your customerstraditionally, where they come
from and sort of what are theyusing your products for?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
So it's funny Like the brand has kind of gone in a
direction based on where ourcustomers were coming from early
on.
And then personally I gotinterested in those spaces and
it's interesting how the journeygoes.
But early on we had anoliveoured hammock and we
(09:48):
started getting bushcraftersbuying this hammock because
bushcrafters were interested inways that they could have a
compact sleep system, that theycould bring minimal equipment
and have a place to sleep.
So I started getting intobushcraft and looking into
bushcraft.
This was six, seven years agoand yeah, we sort of took quite
(10:09):
a bushcrafty direction in thebrand and now we're broadening
out to other sort of outdoorspaces.
But bushcraft was definitelylike a big influence in where
the brand started.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
And I know we spoke about it off air, but the impact
of COVID and like the timing ofyour business, yeah, and then
that causing yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
So I mean there were obviously a lot of unfortunate
things that happened duringCOVID, but for us it was
actually like a really goodboost for the business.
You had a lot of people thatcouldn't go overseas and, you
know, started holidaying intheir backyard, which was great.
There were big brands that ranout of stock, so people came to
(10:47):
us and during that kind of wholescaremongering phase of COVID,
bushcraft became really bigbecause it was all about how can
I survive in the bush andsurvive Coals run out of food?
Yeah, if coals runs out of foodor the electricity grid breaks
down, how can I survive?
So yeah, it was reallyfortunate for us.
It really helped boost thebusiness and brought a whole lot
(11:08):
of new eyeballs to the brand.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, Well, full disclosure.
I haven't known about Altonthat long, to be honest, but I
had two clients recently, jack'sone of them sitting over there
and I had a friend of mine, drYannick, come on on a hunt and
they both had a fair amount ofyour stuff and Yannick's got the
full sleeping system, hammock,ground set up as well and car.
(11:33):
I've got sleeping quarters setup at my block where we hunt and
he's like nah, it's all good,I've got my own.
I was like you're an idiot.
Anyway, he set it up and we hadrain and hail and all sorts of
things and he was substantiallydry and he was quite happy about
that.
I was like what is that stuffhe said out on?
He said it three times, whichmeans my Facebook algorithm
jumped on yeah, it's good, andnow it's all been seeing in the
(11:54):
ads?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Has he had our gear for a long time, yannick, I?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
feel like yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Because that name rings a bell.
He's in WA.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, I'm sure a fair bit opposed to him.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, Because back in the day, like early on, we were
writing handwritten notes toevery customer Right and that
name rings a bell Because it's aterrible one to spell.
Oh, that's probably why itstands out as well.
Oh.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yannick, but no, so they introduced me and I could
see it online and obviously itwas getting pushed to me through
the sponsored ads and things.
But looking through theproducts I'm like man, there's a
whole lot of crossover intowhat my interests are in the
hunting which is outside of theguiding is the backpacking and
the backcountry stuff.
(12:35):
Yep, and I know we spoke thismorning about the sizes of
things and how small you've beenable to get it, and one of the
things you put up is a photo ofsort of where you started with
something and then every coupleof years the product's getting
smaller.
Yeah, that's our hammock, theone I was.
Yeah, so like, how far can youpush it?
Like where does it just end upas a little.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, it's interesting Like we focus on
ultralight but to be honest,it's not like the one thing.
So when it starts to degrade,like the durability of the
product, we stop.
So you'll find like ourproducts aren't the lightest,
they're lighter.
The lighter ones are moreexpensive and in some cases,
(13:15):
less durable.
So we just try and find thatmiddle ground.
We try and have the best ofboth worlds of ultralight but
ultra-durable.
So yeah, the approach I've hadwith this brand from the
beginning is like bang for buck.
You know that's money andthat's also like carrying weight
(13:35):
.
So you don't want to carrysomething that's just going to
blow over in the next gust ofwind.
You know you want somethingthat's going to last and be
tough, but you don't wantsomething that's super heavy
either.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I mentioned to a few people that was coming up here
to have the chat and they'relike oh, that's pretty cool.
This stuff seems to be on par,if not better than the big names
, but at a better price point.
So that's definitely workingand being noticed.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, and that comes with being a direct-to-consumer
brand.
You can try and stay that way.
Yeah, and that comes with beinga direct to consumer brand.
So it's um, yeah, absolutely so.
Like we, we aim to have ourproducts spec as the same as the
really high end brands.
Um, but we have the benefitthat we're selling online direct
to the customer, so we don'thave to.
Um, you know, the the storedoesn't need to make a profit.
(14:21):
Where we make the profit, whichmeans we don't need to make, we
don't need to sell it as high aprice you can make 30% selling
to the public, or you can make30% selling wholesale.
Exactly that's right.
And then the wholesaler willadd up their 50, 100% on top of
that.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
And that makes it tricky.
And obviously during thedevelopment process you've had
some fails along the way andthings that just didn't work for
you yeah, the stories ofgetting massively wet, or
there's things that didn't workoh, honestly, I try and I try
and bury those like there's beenso many.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
There's been so many sleepless nights I was telling
jack off air about.
Um, he said to me.
The comment he made was ourcolor seems to be a really
important thing and I'm like,yeah, you know it's.
It's very important thateverything looks the same and
everything's the same colour.
It's part of our brand now andwe did have a, which is not why
we're colour-coded.
Yeah, we should have beenwearing all of it.
(15:14):
We did have a batch of productswhich has sold through now and
I won't mention, but the colourwas off by like a fraction and
I'm I'm a pretty bigperfectionist and, like my staff
will tell you, there are a badcouple of days.
After that came through, I waslike I was just depressed, like
I was like I can't, we're not,we're going to figure out a way
(15:37):
to just we're gonna have to getrid of all this product, like
we're gonna have to bin it.
We can't sell this Customer's,we can't sell this.
Did customers notice?
No one's noticed ever.
Yep, literally no one.
Free returns on those products.
No, there's nothing wrong withthe product and, to be honest,
it was.
It just shows the attention todetail yeah it was internal,
Like I had good people around mesaying mate, like you're
(15:59):
overthinking this one.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
I get that as a business owner, it's important
to have that consistency andcontinuity.
I mean we try to do it withwhat we do.
Yeah, I notice it here.
I mean everything isconsistently green.
Yeah, except there's someshirts over there.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah, so with the… there's breaking colour.
Yeah, with apparel it'sobviously a little bit different
.
People want to, you know, notwear the same colour every day.
We're not, like I've said,we're not married to anything,
you know.
We're open to the next thingand we'll eventually do
(16:34):
different colours.
It's been a financial thing,the colour idea.
So it's instead of having tobuy, like you know, 3,000 of
something because it's threedifferent colours, we can buy
1,000, which means we can bringout two other new products.
That's the reason we've donethe whole olive colour and, to
be honest, I love it and a lotof customers love it too.
You're married to it now.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah, on the crossover conversation I
purchased a couple of weeks agothis is your fold-out the
closed-cell mat, the closed-cellmat and the same version but in
the sitting pad, and I've laidon the mat inside.
I haven't taken it hunting yet,but I've been out and used the
sitting pad and Jack saidsomething this morning and I
hadn't considered it.
But that time when you're doingthat glassing is late afternoon
(17:17):
and early morning and that'swhen it starts to get really
cold.
And one kept my butt dry, yep,but you've got the foil, yeah,
on the bottom, yep, thatactually keeps your bum warm.
Yeah, that's right, and it's astronger pattern, you're saying,
than the lay down one, becauseyou know you've got a lot more
weight on a smaller.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yeah, the pointy sort of bum bones that go into it.
It's just that little bitthicker and what's it weigh
overall?
Oh, you're putting me on thespot here.
I reckon it's 200 and somethinggrand it's even less than that,
is it?
Speaker 1 (17:48):
It's not fair.
Anyway, we'll check that outand correct that.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
It's not much anyway.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
It's super light and tiny, but it's not something I
ever carried.
You just dealt with it.
Yeah yeah, but to add that tothe pack because it's not
something I would carry on everyhunt.
But if I know there's anopportunity to sit and wait, it
just goes in there now.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah, and it takes up no space as well, Folds down
inside itself.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I actually used it as a we had a little fire going
and I actually put it up aroundit as well.
Yeah right, turn it the otherway, and it pushed the heat back
to where you got it far enoughaway it doesn't catch a light.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Could you?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
So if we get away from the sleeping system, you've
also gone into, I mean, wheretitanium and things and there on
the light.
You nearly burnt your fingerwhen you dipped your finger in
because titanium is not doingyour heat things.
But you've got cook sets aswell and stoves.
What?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
else have we got in the cookware?
So yeah, we've got essentiallyyour whole kitchen.
So you've got cutlery cups,bowls, plates, what about your
little Cookware?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, your little stove.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
The twig stove.
Yeah yeah, you can see thatjust out over there Does it take
long to boil.
No, it's really quick.
It gets super hot compared to aLike a jet boil.
When you look at a jet boilit's got quite a narrow stream
of gas.
But yeah, you can put as muchtwigs in there as you want to
(19:13):
and really get it firing.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
One benefit of the jet boil is you can't fly with
gas.
Yeah, We've all been there, youcan always get twigs.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
I've been pulled up in the airport with that too.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, and the benefit too is it packs flat, so it
just packs into.
I saw that.
I saw that it's like less than10 mil thick.
Yeah, it's been such asuccessful product.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
I'm not defying everything unless you're above
the snow line somewhere in NewZealand?
Exactly, yeah, but the onething I was really excited about
seeing here was your newwaterproof material.
Yeah, yep.
So the nano-pointer I want toget into the nitty-gritty in
that because it's somethingthat's really important in my
pack.
Even if it's 38 degrees andsunny, my reindeer Yep, people
don't pack it.
I always pack it, because evena summer storm at the wrong time
(19:55):
of day, ruin your trip.
Ruin your trip, yep.
So how did you end up like it'sa new product into Australia
and I haven't worn the clothing,but I've seen the way the
fabric works.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
There's one behind you, actually that's an early
sample.
There's one behind you,actually, that's an early sample
Right Green of course.
Yeah, this one's actually gotgreen zips on it, but we went
with the black for a bit ofcontrast in the bulk order.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Mix it up a bit, yeah , but what's the design of the
fabric and why is it?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, so it's a three-layer fabric.
So listeners will be familiarwith some of the big brands out
there like Gore-Tex, pertex.
They're three-layer breathablefabrics.
So the benefit of them iswaterproof but let air through,
so breathable essentially like abreathable rain jacket, because
(20:40):
if you want to keep rain offyourself, you can wrap a garbage
bag around you and keep wateroff, but you'll sweat inside it.
So we yeah, there was, it waspretty fortuitous, like right
place, right time Met a fabricscientist who worked at a big
fabric company in the US andwent out on his own, wanted to
(21:03):
work with someone to develop athree-layer breathable fabric,
but one that was made in a moresustainable manner to some of
the other big brands.
There's some pretty nastychemicals and whatnot in those
other fabrics and also, onceyou're done with them, they
don't biodegrade very well.
(21:23):
So, yeah, we worked with thisguy and we developed Nanopore
over about a year and a half andit's, yeah, it performs at that
high level like superbreathable, super waterproof,
over 20,000 breathability andwaterproof.
But it's that more sustainableapproach.
It doesn't have the carcinogensin it that some of these other
(21:46):
fabrics do, but yeah, it's been,it's been awesome, like it's so
cool to like have a like.
We're not the biggest brand inthe world, but to have, like,
this market leading fabric ispretty awesome.
Um, it's, yeah, it's been superexciting and it's, um it's,
it's really helped us sort oflike get the brand out there and
, um, get people interested.
(22:06):
So it's been perfect for thejacket and the swag having that
breathability and waterproofnessand, yeah, we're keen to like
bring out, you know, futureproducts using this fabric.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
How do you treat it long term?
One issue I have with my raingear is it's waterproof
initially.
But then one thing I did a lotof horse riding in Canada and
you'd wear your waterproof stuffbut just the branches you would
push it through was actuallypushing the water in.
Yeah, it wasn't drip, it wasdrip proof, but not from this
constant and the snow would fallon your lap while you're riding
(22:40):
and would just work its wayinto the fabric and I hadn't
treated it very well.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, there's some like important care.
Yeah, so the.
The beauty of this fabric isthat it doesn't need to be
treated.
So, um, ever, ever, yeah so the.
The way that, like a lot ofthese other fabrics, work is
they've got waterproof coatingson them right, and then after a
year or two you're told to youknow, respray it with um, with
(23:05):
the water repellent, um sort ofchemical.
Essentially.
Ours, ours has a membrane, sothe middle layer of the three
layers is a membrane.
It's essentially got nanoscopicholes in it that allow air to
go through but won't let thewater-sized molecules back
through.
So it's hardware.
(23:29):
There's nothing like it doesn'twear away or anything like that
.
Like a chemical on the outsidedoes a coating.
It's not a treatment.
Exactly so it's.
Yeah, it doesn't need to betreated is the short answer to
your question.
Yeah, yeah, it's pricey though.
Yeah, you know, if you get ajacket that's just like a single
waterproof coating on it, it'sgoing to cost less.
(23:51):
But you know this has been agear wheel last year for you
know many years.
What's the price point?
So the jackets are $479 at timeof recording and the swag is
$699.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I've paid $700 for a waterproof jacket.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, look it's a lot of money, but it's not at the
top right, it's still not at thetop.
Yeah, like the competitor.
Like I said, it's for serious,serious expedition, yeah, like
$479 for a three-layer jacket isgreat value, but it's a lot of
money for the average punter.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
I get that, but if you're getting the longevity of
it, that's right.
It's something you're going touse all the time.
Exactly, I've seen you, youknow, couple up with a couple of
people and you've got the Alconedit that sits in here, yep,
and you do some things.
How do those sort ofrelationships come about and how
have you seen that grow thebusiness?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, so, like we often get asked this question, a
majority of our relationshipshave been really organic
customers.
Yeah, so, like scotty's likeprobably you know one of the
biggest people we work with andhe just bought one of our
products as a customer back inlike 2016 probably.
(25:03):
Um, I was working out of mygarage at home and I'd just gone
off out by myself, away from mybusiness partner, um, and yeah,
like I look back and I'm likeembarrassed, the product we sold
Scotty right, because it wasjust such an.
We were early on like we didn'tknow anything back then.
Um, but yeah, we just sort ofgrew together.
(25:26):
You know, scotty's becomemassive and, um, you know, we've
grown as well and it's justbeen a symbiotic, kind of like
organic friendship I suppose.
And then in recent years we'vewe've brought out like a product
together and it's become alittle bit more formal and that
sort of thing.
But, um, yeah, that was reallyorganic.
And then, you know, throughscotty meet people like silly
(25:46):
and um, yeah, it's the outdoorcommunity, I feel it's not that
big in Australia.
You sort of get to know peopleand become friends and then,
yeah, you work together onthings.
So we might work together onsomething, who knows.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Stay tuned, we'll work on that.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
What's it like for you?
How do you meet people?
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I talk to a lot of people yeah, a lot of people,
and I'm always on the phone.
My wife says to me why are youalways on the phone?
And then she'll say I use thisexample, I gave this the other
day and it hasn't happened, butit's an example.
We've got this antique piece ofchina.
Do you know anyone that canhelp me appraise that?
I'm like, yes, I do, that'ssuch and such and such and such,
because I speak to such, that'sniche, you know.
So that's the problem.
(26:28):
I, I talk to people and then Ifind out their niche strengths,
yeah, and then I just make thatin my terrible memory.
And you know, and then at somepoint I really I thrive on
connecting people, yeah, people,yeah, and that's the guiding I.
You know, I take people hunting, I watch them enjoy something,
and then I get my enjoyment outof it.
I can connect them with amemory or experience yeah,
(26:48):
another good.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Another good example is Gordon Dedman from Bushcraft
Survival Australia.
So I had bushcrafters buyingour gear so I wanted to learn
everything about bushcraft.
So I went and did three of hiscourses.
Which ones did you do?
One, two, three, yeah, up tothe.
To be honest, in the earliestone I did the structures changed
since then but I did like anintermediate.
(27:11):
All of them were up in Darwinand you know like I could turn
up on day one and not knowanything.
And now, like I talk withGordon on the phone and we
discuss product ideas and I gethis feedback Never a short
conversation with Gordon either.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
I spent a couple of days with Gordon on two
different courses.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
I spent a couple of days on the phone with him, yeah
.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
That I spent a couple of days on two different
courses.
I spent a couple of days on thephone with him yeah, that's
before he gets to talking aboutproducts.
We supplied him with a heap ofskins.
He had a Teresa lady come overfrom the States.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
The skin tending course.
I supplied the skins for thosecourses and she's coming back
again.
But yeah, he's a greatconversation.
Yeah, a lot of knowledge,definitely in that area, but
that's a great connection fromyour business point of view.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yeah, and again it was all organic, like I did a
course with him, had a beer withhim after the course, started
chatting on the phone.
You know, just friendships thatsounds like.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Gordon, where's it going?
Where you are now is not whereyou imagined you'd be.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
no, no, not at all.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Uh, yeah, it's did you have imaginary goals and
you've smashed them, or they'rejust different directions or, um
, like, what's the nice to haveat five years time?
Obviously you got thisbeautiful warehouse and space
yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Like I, I think it constantly evolves.
When I was working as anaccountant in an office, I hoped
to have something in my garageat home, and when I was doing
that, I hoped to have a smallwarehouse, which then, when I
had the small warehouse, I wantto have a bigger warehouse.
So I think it just evolves.
Don't try and think too farahead and as to where it goes.
(28:51):
Like it, yeah, that changes.
Like it, it goes where ourcustomers sort of want it to go
and the team like now I've got afew staff around me, so where
you know we talk internally, um,and you know, we've seen in the
last five, six years, thingschange.
Like things change quickly.
So it, yeah, we're just tryingto not think too far ahead.
(29:12):
We just try and make sure thatwhat we're doing is the best we
can do for ourselves, for thecustomers, for everyone involved
.
Try and just keep high quality,high attention to detail and
just make sure we're enjoyingourselves.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
I want to circle back to your swag build that you did
with Scotty.
One thing I've been dealingwith lately is the last 18
months is an incredible amountof leeches down in our area.
Okay, and we just had a localhunting club had a trip up to
Nundle State Forest and Icouldn't make it, but the
leeches up there have beenreally bad and there's a story
(29:49):
about one guy doing the servebill of salt around his swag on
the ground.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah right.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Okay and I'm interested.
I can see that they can't getin, but what went into the
design of a swag.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
So that's actually the bug net tent A swag's a
different product which is noton display because we're sold
out.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
You sold a display model.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
We just don't put it here because then people come in
and go I want that one and weneed to keep a couple, you know.
Um, so this product here, um,that was and this is the bug net
tent for people who obviouslycan't see it.
Um, that was really designedaround the like Northern
Territory dry season.
(30:33):
That's really what it was aimedtowards.
Um, there was and this is thisis myself and Gordon chatting
this product.
So, um, for those of you thatare familiar, like the military
in Australia uses like a box bugnet.
Um, we actually ended up makinga box bug net with, like a
built-in floor, which you knowwas something that we heard.
(30:53):
It was missing and like, keepgoing down that road.
And we ended up with thisproduct, which there were things
.
There were issues with the boxbug net that the military uses.
It's like a bit of a nightmareto set up.
You've got four corners thatneed to tie out.
You can't like put it upstandalone.
So that you know, there werejust little bits and pieces with
that that we wanted to improveand, yeah, we landed on this and
(31:15):
people often ask oh, it's notwaterproof, what do you do if it
rains?
The idea of this product isit's modular.
It's designed really for a dryseason sort of climate going out
when you know there's not goingto be rain and if there is rain
(31:37):
you can bring a light, shelterum, and then those two, exactly
yeah, and it's all modular.
It's like you only take whatyou need, yeah, and it packs
down pretty small too oh nothing, yeah, size of a water bottle.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
But uh, and what about the swag?
I mean, so I have a swag, yeah.
So that I mean, like everyother one has a swag big canvas
yep thing that's this side, thisround and yep, yeah.
So that, like every other onehas a swag, a big canvas thing
that's this size this round.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yep, yeah, so that was like a….
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Is the swag a backpack item?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Yeah, it is.
Yeah, so Scotty actually cameto me and was like you know,
there's room for a swag.
That's not massive, like we allknow.
Now you drive down the highwayand people have got the swags on
their roof because they don'tfit in the car.
Like that's how big they are,the big king's doubles.
Yeah, they need a trailer forthe swag.
Yeah, um, bigger than a tent,when they're meant to be smaller
(32:18):
.
So, and it was funny because hecame to me with that and I was
like I've actually been thinkingabout the same thing for a
couple of years and then fromthere we sort of, yeah, got to
work on designing it and it'ssimple, it's a swag that packs
down small.
You don't have to, you know,have a trailer to carry it.
So it's probably like a littlebit heavier than like taking a
(32:42):
tent, but it's a different thing.
It's a different experience, aswe all know, like the joy of
sleeping in a swag.
Right, it's nicer than sleepingin a tent.
You're a little bit moreexposed to the environment.
Um, I'm for hunting.
It's probably better becauseyou want more visibility.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Um yeah, that's how it came about.
Yeah, well, I'm, and we've gotall these yeah, we've got a.
We've got a safe out the back Iwas uh going through the
products with the what and she'slike, oh, I want, I want the
double sleeping mat.
I don't need it.
We've got the big double kingswag.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Now it feels like we're going to end up with
another swag.
Yeah, all of our stuff's reallybeen quite individual and I
think it probably lends itselfto our customer.
As we speak, we're mainly likea male consumers probably 75, 80
percent um guys that are doinghardcore activities like you
know hunting, bushcraft, etc.
(33:38):
So that generally lends itselfto an individual style sleep
setup.
But recently, you know, there'sbeen a lot more couples um
shopping from us so we movedinto that double sleeping mat
and we've got other double sleepsetups in the works, most
likely one of these bug nettents in a double size, um.
But yeah, all that stuff'shappening in the background.
(33:59):
That's a double size.
You just need to spoon eachother.
Yeah, exactly, it'd be acomfortable night.
They'd be very close yeah, I,yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
I want to have a tip.
If there's any stories in yourback catalogue of your own
personal camping trips, yeah,and you're like, how have you
incorporated your products intoyour own trips?
And I think about the swagversus the hammock set up.
A lot of the places I huntdoesn't have a flat spot.
(34:31):
Yeah, it's got trees, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I mean, look to be honest with you, I'm probably
more of a ground sleeper.
I've used the hammock system.
There are so many benefits withhammock camping, right, because
you're not on the ground,you're up off the wet.
It packs down small et ceteraTemperature, yeah, so with the
hammock there's two solutions totemperature.
You can put a sleeping matinside it which will block the
(34:58):
wind flow under your backbecause they're quite breathable
, which is great for summer.
But there's also an underquiltwhich I don't know if you can
see that over there.
That's an underquilt.
Essentially it's a sleeping bagthat wraps around the bottom of
your body.
Um, it's a big investment.
You want to be a pretty keenhammock camper but it's honestly
(35:19):
I, if I was going to the snowlike I think that would be the
most comfortable, most warm outof the weather setup you could
have is under quilt, top quilthammock.
No matter like what sleepingmat you're using, it's got a
huge R value.
You were down in the snow.
It's going to be cold, it'sgoing to be a bit uncomfortable.
But to answer your questionabout personal experience, I
(35:42):
actually had back in the daylike a fully nylon bivy, right.
So a bivy is essentially alightweight swag.
Our product could be called abivvy and yeah, I was like this
is fantastic.
It packs down so small, it waslike $150 because it was nylon
(36:09):
and yeah, I slept out in it abunch of times.
Then one night the rain camethrough and like I slept out in
it a bunch of times.
Then one night the rain camethrough and like it was all
sealed up and just thecondensation, like it was just I
woke up.
I mean, I didn't even fallasleep, I was covered in water
and that's the reason that wewent for this breathable
material.
Right is, if it gets humid inthere which when you're
breathing all night, if you'reall shut up, it gets humid, it
(36:31):
escapes.
Exactly, it has a way to escape.
And yeah, I mean, this was justa.
I've never used it again, itwas a piece of junk, it was just
a capsule of water really Backto the hammocks.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
You spoke about a sleeping.
What do you call it?
The top piece?
Top quill, top quill?
You spoke about it sleeping.
What do you call it?
The top piece, top quilt, topquilt?
Yes, and I don't know who itwas recently.
It actually might have beenJack, but talking about sleeping
bags, when you're laying onthem, there's no benefit to the
piece because it's allcompressed, that's right.
Yes, so the warmth in a bagcomes from the loftiness of the
material trapping your body heat.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Yeah, so it doesn't work.
When you um the, the air getstrapped in the feathers and
warmed up by your body.
So if the feathers are flat,the air can't get trapped in
anything.
So, yeah, technically, with asleeping bag, the bit that your
body's weight is on is flattenedand it's got no use.
(37:31):
So that's, that was the reasonbehind bringing out quilts.
A quilt is essentially asleeping bag.
It's got the back cut out of it.
Um, still a tubular of yourfeet, yep, still tubular.
Oh, there's different varieties.
Ours closes in fully aroundyour feet.
Some of them can zip open.
We went for the fully wrappedin, um, like closed in one,
because there's a way, that sortof like, you can get through a
(37:53):
zip and in in.
In my mind you're only using itwhen it's cold, you know.
So that's why we went for theclosed in and we like to keep
things simple, less things tobreak.
But yeah, that's the wholebenefit of a quilt.
And then, by removing thatsection out of the back, you can
go a little bit wider.
So you're, like you know, morelike your bed at home, a bit
more comfortable, and it's alsolighter because you've removed
(38:25):
that whole section from yourback, but in saying that, like
there's something snug and andsecure about a sleeping bag,
right?
yeah, exactly, and you know, Iknow that I roll around a lot,
so it, which you can do in aquilt, but you know, with a
sleeping bag you might want toroll and then that down will,
will lost out.
You know the bit that you'vejust lifted up, but the thing
about a quilt, too, is that youhave to have a good sleeping mat
, because that will create thatwarmth under your body.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
One thing that Yannick had, and it's just
sleeping mat cover.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
The fitted sheet, the pillow.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
That's important.
I've spent a lot of timesleeping mats and age and the
time you're next to it.
Yeah, like you slip off.
Yep, it just pops out the sideyeah, so the fit half, you're
not getting back on it.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
The fitted sheet was like such a simple yeah, it's a
simple idea but like, no, I'm noof one other brand that doesn't
, they're really rare and, um,there's a few benefits to it.
Like you said, it gives youthat extra grip so you don't
slip off.
It holds your pillow in place,which is great because you don't
lose it during the night.
And the other one the big oneis a sleeping mat is a
(39:28):
completely like impenetrableplastic or nylon, right when you
think about it, so you're goingto sweat and stick to it by
having that sheet.
Yeah, and it just creates thatlike softness of like a bed at
home.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
So again, if you're in this, you know the Flynet one
in summer and you've got thaton there.
You don't really need asleeping bag, you could just lay
on it.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
You could yeah, you really could or you could use
like our.
We've got like a summersleeping bag, packs down super,
super tiny and it's just thatlittle bit of like cover for the
morning.
You know when that little bitof coolness comes through just
before sunrise.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Yeah, where do we see it going product-wise in the
future?
I mean, just filled up youreskies with the baskets and the
dividers.
Yeah, with the crates overthere and then getting into the
clothing.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Yeah, so look, there's a lot of sampling
happening in the background.
If I had to categorise, likewhere it was going, it's
probably like more of the same,I guess, with just like sort of
minor movements into newcategories.
But yeah, like a lot ofsleeping system stuff happening.
(40:39):
And then probably the biggestarea that we want to get more
into is bags and packing andthat sort of stuff.
There's been a lot of requestsfrom customers for that.
So yeah, it's taken a bit oftime but we want to get it right
.
So you know, we have to samplequite a bit and get the
materials right and the designsright and all that sort of stuff
.
It takes time.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Yeah, it does.
I saw the other day on your VIPpage on Facebook.
Jack put the photo up but yoursleeping bag got used on alone.
Yeah yeah, did you know thatwas?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
No, some smartass put a comment on there saying, oh,
it's a marketing company orsomething or other.
But I only knew about that whenI saw it get uploaded.
I had no idea.
Yeah, it's awesome, it'sfantastic.
Yeah, it's one of those momentswhere you're like, oh wow,
(41:31):
people really believe in us.
That's so good.
We've been working hard to makethese good products, especially
that show.
I mean good products andespecially that show.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
I mean, people are going to that show now, knowing
what they're in for.
Yeah, so they buy appropriateequipment, yeah and fuels falls
in that category.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
That's exciting yeah, no, it was honestly like so
cool to see um, and I know frompersonal experience like that,
uh, I know a few people thathave worked that we both know
who have worked on that show andit's, yeah, they don't want to
show brands, you know, it's notabout that.
(42:04):
It's all about the people andtheir experience, you know, and
what they're doing.
It's not about the products.
So pretty cool to like to havethat little flash of the product
on there.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, it needs to go on your socials.
Yeah, we'll work on that.
Yeah, well, thanks for havingus in the shop.
It's uh, it's impressive to seethe stuff.
I'm excited to see where itgoes in the future.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
I'm excited to see how it crosses over into my
world yeah, we're um, we'redefinitely, like I've said to
you, off air, like we have notlike targeted hunting as a
customer, and not because wedon't want to, but it's just.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
That was my question to sam, I was like, because you
look at companies sometimes thataren't in the hunting space,
but new products, and sometimesthat's a business choice yeah,
to provide products that suitthat market, but we don't want
to be seen in that marketspecifically and yeah, it's um,
I'm here.
So, sam, I like shooting stuffyeah, um.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
No, we'll work on that.
Yeah, it's um, I've looked atit's time.
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, well, Idon't have a um.
What are you gonna have areason, a property to go to?
Yeah, I've.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, a genuine reason A property, to use it on.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
I've probably got a genuine reason, but I just need
to figure out what it is.
But yeah, it's just, we've been, you know, we've grown a lot in
the last six, seven years andwe're sort of at capacity at the
moment with what we do.
So as time goes by, we'll, youknow, expand into these
different categories, or atleast marketing to those
(43:39):
categories and interacting withthem a little bit.
They're already selling into it.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Exactly, yeah, it's a byproduct.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah, we're well aware of that market and, like,
for us, we just try to do whatwe do best, which is making like
high-quality gear that lasts along time and has like a nice
aesthetic to it and, fortunately, like that aesthetic lends
itself nicely to to um hunting.
So we're aware of that customer.
It's just a matter of findingthe time to do activities with
(44:07):
that customer.
Another one is um motorbikecamping.
Yeah, like, yeah, we littlepennies on the thing they got to
fit everything in there.
It's such a massive customerfor us but we just have no no
one here does that right.
So we need to start lookinginto that market and those
(44:29):
community events and that sortof stuff.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yeah, some guys on the back of their bike with the
hammock set up.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah, they love it.
They love it.
It's interesting how there'sdifferent activities.
You don't even realize thatlike your product is like, it's
perfect for that yeah, and youknow cookware and things,
everything lightweight yeah,that's it, lightweight sturdy,
exactly, yeah, yeah, right now.
Thanks for having us here onthe show.
No, thank you for coming up,appreciate it.
(44:54):
No, thanks very much, lookforward to talking again soon.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Bye for now.
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