Ep. 22 Zeb Jones PART 2 on hunting Sambar Deer. Weather patterns, The moon and the 90-10 rule

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Part two of our chat with Zeb jones. Renowned hunting expert Zeb Jones joins us for an insightful journey into the world of deer hunting. Uncover the secrets of Sambar and chital deer behavior, as Zeb delves into the impact of environmental changes and alarm calls on these elusive creatures. Learn how weather patterns and moon phases can influence deer activity, offering parallels that even seasoned hunters will find enlightening. Whether you're battling the elements or syncing your hunting schedule with deer movements, Zeb's wisdom reinforces the importance of time in the bush.

Explore the intricate dynamics of the Sambar deer rutting season, where Zeb reveals the 90-10 rule of breeding cycles. Discover how environmental shifts like drought can alter these patterns, and why understanding them is crucial for successful hunting. We debunk myths surrounding antler casting and highlight survival tactics like synchronized birthing among deer species. By understanding these behaviors, hunters can tailor their strategies and anticipate deer movements with greater accuracy.

Venture into the realm of ethical hunting and deer management as Zeb addresses the challenges of maintaining balanced populations. From discussing potential solutions like incentivising hunters to control deer numbers, to examining the role of mentorship and educational resources, Zeb offers a comprehensive perspective on ethical practices. Plus, gain insights into the importance of mentorship and resources available for both novice and intermediate hunters. Whether through personal guidance or structured courses, Zeb’s expertise paves the way for a deeper understanding of deer behavior and hunting strategies.

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If you have a question, comment, topic, gear review suggestion or a guest that you'd like to hear on the show, shoot an email to [e-mail] or via our socials.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back.
This is part two of this chatwith Zeb Jones.
If you are just tuning in nowfor the first time, please go
back and listen to part one,Otherwise you may struggle to
make sense of the first half ofthis.
But listen together makesperfect sense.
It was a really enjoyable chat,Went for three hours and I got

(00:21):
a lot out of it and I reallyhope you guys do so.
Here's part two, Enjoy.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
So Samba are funny, right, like if you've hunted
chittle and I've hunted chittle,but only with the bow, right,
if one chittle out of a mob seesyou and does its little bark,
the whole mob runs withoutquestion.
I saw it with a spiky, right,you know it's a full Samba
hunter.
I was stalking in on this mobof chittle and this one spike,
he pinned me right Of 30 deer.

(00:47):
He pinned me and I've just gone.
They won't pay any attention tohim.
So I kept doing what I wasdoing, because I was hunting
samba that had white dots, right, and he went and they all just
didn't even think for a splitsecond.
They all took off hunting on it.
Every animal has some sort ofalarm call.

(01:08):
Right, samba is the honk.
It is not a communication as inI'm over here.
It's huh, what are you?
Something's there come outwherever you are, so they've
seen you.
And there's different honks.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
It's always fun talking about killing stuff.
We just had some technicaldifficulties.
Zeb is back, the joys oflong-distance podcasting, but we
were talking about thecloverleaf, the three things we
had midweek hunting, we had nomoon or lack of moon, and then a

(01:48):
cold front trying to get outjust after that, and you said I
want to tell you why.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, so basically what happens with a cold front
is the deer go into survivalmode.
You know they don't like beingwet and cold and the rest of it.
So they they generally hide inthe thicker gullies, they'll
bunker down sort of thing.
And if it's an extended periodof time, so it might, you know,

(02:13):
like two or three days where acold front just hangs around and
it's windy and it's raining andit's just really miserable,
it'll just put so much pressureon those deer that when that
weather breaks and it comes outclear that they just have this
overwhelming desire to go andget sun, if they can get some
sun, so they'll be out in theclearings and also to feed,

(02:36):
which, coincidentally, usuallyis better in the clearer areas
because the sun can penetratethe canopy and it allows that um
, different you know bushes andthat to grow.
Um, so yeah, that that coldfront is is a massive thing.
And if you've done any uh, likewhen I say I don't do study of

(02:57):
deer, I watch what the americansdo, because there's such a big
population of people and there'sso many smart people and a lot
of them are hunters.
I read up on whitetail huntingafter cold fronts and I've
applied that to Samba and it's100% relatable.
And also with the moon, they'veactually got little wheels that
they use to time the moon withrut activity and best times of

(03:24):
day to hunt.
I can't remember the name of thewheel, but you can sort of
basically buy it for the yearand you spin it around to the
date that you've got to gohunting and it can tell you
whether you should be huntingmorning, afternoon or whatever,
or don't bother.
So I did a bit of study intothat and I've applied that to
Samba.
But the biggest problem withall of this is people don't have

(03:45):
the time to implement it.
You can't go hunting on aThursday because you've got to
go to that board meeting oryou've got to run that small
business or you've got to dropthe kids off at school.
You can't go after that coldfront because you know, for
whatever reason, you know you'vegot commitments.
But if you could time all thosethree things together and do
that consistently, I'd nearlyhazard you know, I could bet a

(04:10):
house on it that you would bemore successful hunting in those
conditions than just huntingwhenever you possibly could.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
And trying to line it all up.
What's that song?
Two out of three ain't bad.
I mean, if you can tick acouple of those boxes, you're
still.
The other thing is I always sayto people is just yes,
obviously we're talking aboutideal situations, but the flip
side is you're not going toshoot them from your couch, so
get out there.
Time in the bush, time in thebush, number four yeah,

(04:45):
eventually we'll have top 10,the 10 commandments.
Obviously you talk about therut.
Now I know Samba don't havelike a fallow-like specific rut
where it's, you know, 21-dayperiod, pushing out a little bit
longer with an extra second rutand another estrus and things.
Can you explain how the Sambarut works?
And I also want you to throw inthere like another estrus and
things.
Can you explain, uh, how thesamba rut works?

(05:05):
And I also want to want you tothrow in there like wattle
bushes and things, because Iknow that a lot of guys say that
when the wattles are floweringand so yeah, run me through that
yep.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
So the wattle thing is is purely it's it's timing of
the year.
So at the moment we're in fullwattle bloom, so it's just a
really good time to be in thebush.
It coincides with early springor late winter, and it's just in
general.
Because what we've got to talkabout with Samba is in general,
and I like to call it the 90-10rule 90% of the Samba will be

(05:39):
doing this and 10% will be doingthat.
So we don't want to worry aboutthe 10% too much, we want to
worry about the 90%.
So area-specific sand, the rut,roughly at the same time every
year.
That's what I've found.
So depending on your area.
So if you can find an area andfind rut activity, pay note to

(06:02):
when that is because in general,conditions allowing so I'll
explain that in a bit conditionsallowing it will happen at the
same time the following year aswell.
Right now, what can change?
That is weather.
So I talked to a deer farmeryears ago that explained about

(06:23):
when he was siring hinds.
Was the hinds that were, youknow, yearling and hadn't bred
yet, had to hit a certain weightof their growth before they'd
actually cycled for their firsttime.
So that's related to how muchfeed they have in that time

(06:44):
between being born and when theyhit that weight.
So in a good year they hit theweight early, so they might be
getting bred at 12 months old,whereas if it's a drier year it
might take a few extra monthsfor them to hit that target
weight.
For their body to say you'rebig enough now to cycle and to
breed weight for their body tosay you're big enough now to

(07:10):
cycle and to breed.
So a rut can be determined bythe season.
But generally in in an area ofsamba, uh, it will happen
roughly at the same time everyyear.
So pay attention when you'rehunting an area.
If all the scrapes are activethe wallows are really active
you're smelling ruddy st.
Chances are that will happenagain the following year.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Just pause on that for a second, talking about that
one deer or that group of deerin a bad season, that let's just
okay.
Full circle-y.
Tell me a rough rut date August, okay.
So if we're working on August,they're rutting in August, and
then the hinds are pregnant.
For how long?

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Nine or 10 months.
They're very similar to a cow.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yep.
So then nine or 10 months theyhave their baby and then we go
into drought.
You would assume the next rutwould be August, but that mum
would be an Easterist in Augustagain and ready.
But those yearlings, or 18months old, the two-year-olds
and things, if they've had thatdrought, are they then getting a
staggered rut because they'renot hitting it in August?

(08:13):
They're underweight, so they'recoming in again in, let's say,
October by the time they hitthat weight or November, in late
spring, yeah, so that'sprobably the 10%.
Okay, but then that's a flow-onfor their whole life.
Unless they miss a season, theymight get bought in to
oesterous with their mums.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Anyway, that's just a weird theory.
It is.
But what you find is and if youhave done any study on mule
deer specifically, they tend tocarve in a very short period and
what it is, it's called, it'sgot a special name can't
remember what it is because Idon't pay attention to this sort

(08:54):
of stuff but basically whathappens is they drop all their
calves at the same time,relatively, you know, so that
the cougars and the wolves andthe coyotes don't kill all their
calves spread out over the year.
It's a known thing for preyanimals to drop all their calves
at once so that the predatorscan't possibly kill them all,

(09:14):
and Samba do the same.
But, like we talked about withthe 10%, there's going to be 10%
that are going to be outside ofthe normal breeding cycle 10.
There's going to be 10 that aregoing to be outside of the
normal breeding cycle.
But what you will notice iswhen you, when you're hunting an
area, you will find most hindswill either be pregnant or have

(09:37):
a calf of similar size to thenext cow or hind and calf that
you find.
It's they to find.
You know it's pretty well,right, you know what I mean.
But then every now and againthere's obviously an odd one,
but they're the 10% Right, so Ihunt the 90% yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
And do you think would you find the 10% in that
same group?
Or do they find their ownmother's club and hang around
with their other 10%?

Speaker 2 (10:08):
I think they intermingle, it's just yeah,
they're just not getting.
It's probably a survival traitof Samba, because you know
clearly people have talked inthe past that Samba can hold
their antlers for more than oneyear, which is complete BS.
It doesn't happen.
I don't think there's anyantlered animal that holds their
antlers longer than 12 months.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Not on purpose, I mean, it does happen by accident
sometimes if there's somedamage.
Yeah, yeah, but there's usuallysomething wrong with it.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, it's not a norm , but with Samba and the reason
why they thought Samba did thatwas because at any time of the
year you could find a hardantlered stag yeah, but what
that is is there's a variationin when they cast by quite a
fair bit.
That's the same with tuna.
I know a bloke messaged me theother day saying he found a

(11:01):
fresh cast on the track, becausehe'd walked along the track to
get honey and when he came backit was laying there.
He clearly would have steppedover it, so it had just been
cast.
And that's what.
September, and now you quiteregularly find deer casting into
January, but then you'll findsome stags that are rutting in
January.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
I saw the.
It was only yesterday.
Was it?
Corinne Davissa, I think hername is?
And their hog deer?
Hi, corey Corey.
They got a hog deer place andwhatnot in Sambra and whatnot,
but they just shot one the otherday and it cast after they shot
it like as they shot it.
Yeah, Yep, so, like you said,that's the anomaly.
Coming back to rutting activity, and we we touched on it

(11:45):
earlier where they're?
They're a non-vocal speciesgenerally.
Generally, do the stags makeany noise?
And um, hinds honk.
And then so a couple ofquestions.
The stag noises, hind noises,and using that to your advantage
in a being honked at situation,but also using some callers I

(12:09):
know there's a couple of mouthcallers.
I've got one just heresomewhere.
Do you use them?
How do they work?
Rip into some noise stuff forme.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Rightio, so let's go with the first one.
Do samba make noise?
They all make noise.
Do Samba make noise?
They all make noise.
They don't sort of call in arut, speaking like as in a
fallow buck or a red.
I have heard stags call threetimes in my life of hunting them

(12:38):
since I was eight.
I'm 42.
Um, two of those times I likewitnessed the, the deer's mouth
moving and and the sound comingout, so I could tell it was that
that particular deer.
It wasn't, it wasn't.
You know, I was looking at deerand heard this noise.

(12:59):
It was like I saw it do it in aworld exclusive.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Zeb is going to give us an indication of what the
sound is like.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
Have you ever heard a potty calf?
So it's a moo.
It's a moo like that and it'sonly stag, so I've heard make
that noise.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
Is it layout?

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, you could hear it probably from within 100
yards quite clearly.
The two times that I've heardthat particular call, the stags
have been really rutty and quiteaggressive.
I believe it's something theytalk to each other about, as in
stags it's always been wherestags have been together that

(13:43):
I've heard that noise, wherestags have been together, that
I've heard that noise.
And I've heard a stag make moreof a squeaky sort of a noise
which sort of simulates an elkcow paw, and I have not ever
witnessed a hind making or acalf making a squeaky noise.

(14:06):
But I've seen enough footagethat other people have shown me
of calves making that almostsqueak from the.
What's that?
That samba call?
I can't remember what they callit Flexmark yeah, so that
squeak.
I've never physically heard itin person, but I've seen video
footage of little deer makingthat noise.

(14:28):
Um and so then, going intousing it, yes, I've, I've played
with the flex mark a fair bit.
I've got a hoochie mama now,which is another elk caller but
it's a hand operated one.
I use that primarily so I canvideo and do it at the same time
.
It's a lot harder to to videoand mouth call because there's

(14:48):
actually a bit of effort insqueezing and biting and all the
rest of it.
But what I've found with theflex mark and the hoochie mama
is it attracts femalespredominantly, in my experience,
that are either heavilypregnant or have a calf

(15:09):
somewhere.
Now I don't know if you knowthat Samba stash their calves.
They don't actually physicallybed with them.
So when they've got young calvesyou'll quite often walk in on a
river flat and you'll bump outa calf and you'll go where's the
mum?
Mum is usually a couple ofhundred yards away, bedded away
from it, and that's a predatorysurvival thing, because calves

(15:33):
don't actually have much scentfor the first couple of months
of their life, believe it or not.
And that is so that predatorslike dogs and tigers can't
actively sniff them out whilethey're curled up and the mother
beds away from them purely sothat she can divert danger,
because she has a scent.
There's no point in her beddingnext to her calf, because if a

(15:55):
predator comes in and they haveto make an escape, she might be
quick enough to get away, butthe calf isn't, so she beds away
from her calves.
So when you use that flex markand you bring in a hind, she's
probably coming in looking forher calf because she believes
that it's calling to her.
So I've always sort ofcautioned on the side of if

(16:16):
you're calling to shoot a deer,be mindful that you're probably
going to orphan a calf that'snot going to survive if you're
going to shoot that animal whenit comes in.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
Circles right back to our first conversation about
Jagermeister and you know,stewardship and ethical hunting
things, and that's a tricky one,that one.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
It is.
So, yeah, this is the huntingethics that can mean one thing
to someone and to someone else.
I've always struggled to shoothinds.
Dad never installed in me shootthe hinds.
His theory was the hinds werethe breeders.
We shoot the stags.
So I've always had this stagmentality and I find it really
difficult to shoot hinds, justpurely of my own.

(17:01):
It's not even ethics, it's more.
I don't know.
I just like them, I like seeingthem, I don't like killing them
that much.
But when I want to eat one, I'llpick the perfect one.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
We'll get back to Sam in a second.
I want to pause on that becauseit's a conversation that I've
been having recently with a fewpeople and someone has coined a
phrase and I'm going to steal itoff him.
Shane's his name and he listensto all the podcasts.
Shout out shane and it's uh.
I started the first half of thesentence and he finished it,
but it's um, you know, let himgo, let him grow, but shoot a

(17:35):
doe and it's the.
The topic on that is and Iwelcome your opinion we have too
many deer in australia and weare not doing anything about, we
are not doing enough about it,and because we're not, the
government is trying to do whatthey think is best, which we all
obviously agree is not the bestoption and things, but baiting

(17:56):
and aerials and whatnot.
But I think it's nearly ourfault and I know that's a
controversial topic and I'mguilty of it.
You've just admitted you'vedone it too.
We are selective.
We want to, you know.
Oh, it's nice to see them, butI want to shoot a stag, so let
them.
But what we're actually doingis allowing numbers to just I
know you say that, samba, youknow are not explosive in

(18:20):
numbers, but I think they,they're our I want to say nearly
our largest population of deer.
I heard across australia and andthat that's partly due to your
dispersion model, saying that.
I know you said the queenslandborder.
I mean technically they do goall the way up to coburg
peninsula, but that's a wholedifferent herd yeah, technically
, yeah, there's a bit of a gap,yeah they are there, but they

(18:40):
were placed there.
And then there's theories aboutwhy they are along the Great
Dividing Range, being thathunters have taken said calf
home and helped dispersion,whatever, but in theory they
disperse other than others.
So I don't know.
I've gone off topic and it'sjust hot on my mind at the
moment.

(19:00):
This and I nearly wanted to.
Uh, we're toying with aconversation of and I think it
was tennessee or something, butum, robbie kroger, from blood
origins pointed out to me we'rediscussing this and he said
there's a, there's a model overthere where it's um, shoot a doe
to earn a buck and you so youcan't go and get your buck tag

(19:21):
until you've shot a doe or two,just to keep numbers in balance,
and that's great.
Anyway, we've turned off topicand please talk about it if you
want to.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, no.
Also, the ADA a little whileago had an initiative for
shooting a doe Let the youngstag grow, shoot the doe and it
was basically a badge that youcould get.
If you shot two hinds within ayear, you could get this badge
right, so it was some sort ofsilly incentive to shoot some
more hinds.
I don't think it's silly.

(19:53):
Well, what I mean by is you knowwho really wants a badge, you
know what are you going to dowith it, but you know you've got
this little trophy badge thatyou know what value is it?

Speaker 1 (20:05):
It's for the guys who can't shoot stags, you know.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Let's tell it what it is Well whatever, I'm not going
to go down that road.
Yeah, I do see we have nomanagement of our herd.
So if we want to include Sambaas a herd, we do not manage it
at all.
The only real management that Isee that we do do is to allow

(20:29):
hound hunting, because houndhunting reduces numbers
indiscriminately.
From calves all the way throughto mature stags, they all get
shot.
You know, when a deer runs outin front of a hunter, they are
shooting them.
They're not going.
Oh, that's not big enough.
You know what I mean.
So hound hunting definitely isour really only management of

(20:54):
numbers that we have in Victoriafor Samba deer, because
stalking alone doesn't affectthe numbers in any great
meaningful way.
So what is the answer?
I suppose it would be good tobe able to manage our herd so

(21:20):
that we did have better trophies, like in Europe, where they
don't shoot stags until they'reat the back end of their um
growth period.
Basically, like they shoot 10and 12 year old animals I don't
shoot eight and nine year oldanimals that have got these
beautiful big antlers.
They let them get on on thebackside of that and then they

(21:41):
start shooting them and that'spurely to improve the herd.
We've got no way ofimplementing that in Victoria.
So the only way we couldpossibly help manage the deer is
to incentivise people to shootthem.

(22:03):
Which what would you want to do?
You could put a bounty on themand then all of a sudden people
are just out there killingwilly-nilly.
I'm happy for the government todo what they're doing.
I don't believe it's 100%necessary where they're doing it
.
I believe it's necessary inareas, but I think they're sort

(22:25):
of a little ill-advised on whatis out in the forest.
So I'd love to take some ofthese officials that think that
there's 2 million or 1 millionsalmon deer in the high country,
because I'd like them to showme where they are, because I do
a lot of hunting and they're notthere.
I can take you into countrywhere there is very few to, if

(22:47):
any, samba deer for kilometresand kilometres and kilometres in
the bush, and then you can comeout to where it's better
hunting hunting as in.
There's more deer there, butthere's still not deer in every
gully.
There's still not deer twokilometres past where the main
group of deer are.
So I think the numbers aremassively inflated and, yeah,

(23:12):
maybe we could do more tocontrol the numbers, but it
hasn't been asked of us either.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
No, it's something we're facing here in New South
Wales, it's you know, know.
We've got the local land servicegoing around parading as you
know, the answer getting intofarmers pockets and, you know,
just getting access andthermally culling deer and
things like that.
I, uh, I posted a thing youmight have seen.
I posted on the accurate huntspage the other day and it's a
picture of a guy laying in bedon the phone.

(23:39):
He's ringing reception at thehotel and he says hello, I'd
like a wake-up call please.
And she says if you stopshooting the small bucks, you
may just get to shoot a big buck.
And that causes stir too,because people are like no, no,
if it's brown, it's down, or ifI don't shoot it, someone else
will, and all those things are100% true.
But if you don't shoot itbecause and again this comes

(24:04):
this is not early on in yourhunting career, this is later on
, when you've shot a few things.
If you leave it, there's a highchance that someone else
actually won't shoot it, justbecause no one shot it to the
point where you're at whenyou've seen it.
So deer are clever.
Obviously you're pointing outthat by going thermal we're
going to remove like part oftheir camouflage, which I can

(24:27):
see.
The issue is, I don't know the.
The management model and thingsin australia is a tricky one,
because I can definitely seeboth sides of the coin.
And one thing we push for herein new south wales access to
national parks, which you guyshave a little bit better access
than we do, um so, but Iactually don't think it's going
to yield the results that peoplethink it will.

(24:49):
I don't think it's going to bethe amen that that we want it to
be, and it's for exactly whatyou said there.
Selective hunting and stalkingis not a productive, it's a,
it's a component, but it's not aoverly productive way of no.
So the reason we would getaccess to a national park is to
control feral animal numbers.

(25:10):
If I'm going into a nationalpark that has rusa in it, I'm
thinking of one particular.
I'm not shooting a pig or a foxnot happening not happening
like and I'm not, we'll see.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
we're not allowed to in our national parks there you
go.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
I'm not shooting a hind or a doe or whatever.
I'm holding out for the bigrusa stag, because that's what
I'm in this forest for.
So I am the problem where theywant us in there to shoot feral
animals and it's just not goingto happen.
Anyway, I want to get back toSam, because that's what we're
here for oh, yeah, yeah.

(25:45):
That's what we're here for.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Something will have to be done eventually because I
think hunting organisations willneed to step up and maybe try
to be a bit more of the answer.
And so I think last year thenumbers stated that public land
hunting killed 100,000 Sambalast year in Victoria.

(26:11):
So maybe if we could doublethat we might see a significant
difference in the numbers.
But what we've got to do iseducate the people that are
counting the numbers, because wedon't want them counting them
on farm fringe or in areas wherethey're not hunted.
Sure, Because those numbers areinflated Perspective.

(26:34):
I'm fully happy for thermalcrews to go through and
absolutely slay deer where we'renot allowed to hunt, to the
point where there's no deerthere.
I don't care because we're notallowed to hunt there.
It's going to upset a lot ofpoachers that poach it.
But you know what I mean.
I don't care.
There's no loss to the storiesof the community.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
There's no loss to the ethical legitimate hunter,
and if that makes the governmentthink that they're winning,
well let them have it.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Let them have it, that's right, and then add on to
the farm fringe stuff.
So I know a lot of farmers nowhave transitioned from oh I like
seeing the deer to kill everydeer that you see.
So the farmers are on board nowKill all the deer within that
farm fringe.
Do it, get it done, or at leastget it to a point where the

(27:25):
farmers are happy with thenumbers that are there, because
they used to be happy with them20 years ago they were happy.
Do you have regulations?
on thermal usage on private land, that's fine no, so private
land, is it's legal fordestruction of deer?
Yeah, yeah, um so spotlightokay, I want to.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
I want to go back to the the verbal thing, because
I've been honked at, uh, and youknow, numerous times and I've
seen the result.
Or you know a flash of a deerrunning away.
But for those that arelistening that maybe not have
experienced it or don'tunderstand it, the only way I
can explain it is an air horn,when you're not expecting it,
right behind you, yeah.

(28:04):
Or you know a train at a levelcrossing that's blowing its horn
, like it is a bone-tinglingloud noise that comes out of a
tiny little voice box on ananimal and it often perplexes me
and you know we'll get thereeventually.
I know we've been going for 17hours, but you're going overseas
and you're going to hear someanimals make some noises over

(28:25):
there that are incredible andamazing to hear.
And then you hear a big samperjust go bah.
And that was quite loud foreveryone listening in their car
and I apologise, I was a little-girl on that one too, by the
way.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
Oh yeah, well, I'm a juvenile, I'm a juvenile.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
All right too, by the way.
Oh yeah, well, I'm a juvenile,I'm a juvenile, all right.
Um, uh, yeah, just haven'treached my first estrus.
Um, but um, it's an incrediblesound.
And then you know,comparatively, to like a moose
who is bigger, again, uh, maleand female, and they make a
weirder, smaller sound, like Idon't understand how animal

(29:03):
vocabulary works.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
Let's dive into it a little bit.
So you've got moose and elkright, that are your main vocal
ones in America, whereas yourwhitetail and your muleys are
less vocal, like especially amule deer.
So think of mule deer and Sambaas probably very similar.
So the sounds that you'rehearing those honks are alarm

(29:29):
sounds.
So fallow deer have a bit of agrunt bark, so do red deer, and
then obviously every animal hassome sort of alarm call.
Right, samba is the honk.
It is not a communication as inI'm over here, it's huh, what
are you?
Huh, something's there.

(29:51):
Huh, come out wherever you are.
So they've seen you and there'sdifferent honks.
So on the last trip we got thehonk.
You're there, I'm tellingeveryone that you're there, honk
, I can still see you.
I can see you, I don't knowwhat you are.
Honk, honk, honk, and it goeson and on and on and they don't
move.
But then we also had the honk.

(30:14):
Oh shit, a hunter, and that wasa stag that we put up
unexpectedly and he give us thefull volume, full noise, honk.
That is designed to almostintimidate you a little bit, to
make you think twice about ohshit, what?
No, is that something I want tochase and grab a hold of
because you're a tiger, and itgives him that split-second

(30:38):
advantage to get two or threebig strides on you, because a
tiger needs to be within 30yards of its prey to launch an
attack that could be successful.
If it's 50 yards away, aSambadier is going to outrun it.
It's got faster leak speed.
It can't do it.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
Remember that time when you said you didn't study
things that didn't help you killdeer.
I think you've actually provedthat you have done some studies
over there.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
I've done some study, but I don't scientifically.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yeah right, a Tigus Uranus, or whatever its
technical name is, it doesn'tmatter.
So the staghonk.
You can probably.
Is it easy to tell thedifference between a stag and
hind if you can't visually seethe result?

Speaker 2 (31:26):
yep, a big stag and a hind.
Definitely, because usually bigstags are very quiet and quite
happy to slip away withoutmaking any noise.
That's because they've beeneducated right.
So you're talking about eightor ten year old stag.
He've been educated right.
So you're talking about eightor a 10-year-old stag?
He's been educated by huntersto get to that age.
So he knows what you are.

(31:48):
So he doesn't have to and hedoesn't like letting everyone
know.
He's happy to let his hindstake the brunt, right?
Or the young stag.
It's been clearly demonstratedwith hound hunting that stags
will run hounds back through agroup of hinds so that the dogs
drop off him and onto the hinds.
Stags have been doing it fordecades, right?

(32:11):
So stags sacrifice everyoneelse so they can survive,
whereas hinds they're naturalmothers.
They've got that nature aboutthem, so they protect the herd.
Right so they're.
They're likely to stand thereand honk at you up to a hundred
times.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
I've heard over a hundred honks from the one deer
that just will not go awaybecause it's obviously got a
calf or something nearby heyguys, dodge button in middle of
a podcast here, but I justwanted to ask you a favor If you
can head over to the AccurateHunts YouTube channel, subscribe

(32:49):
, like, leave a comment on yourfavorite video, anything like
that, it really helps.
Youtube's burying us at themoment and anything like that
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If you can jump on our socialsAccurate Hunts on Facebook.
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Accurate Hunts on Instagramnothing special, we're on there.
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(33:15):
give us a share.
It all helps and it all keepsthis podcast running and at the
top of everyone's list.
So I do appreciate it.
Again, thanks for listening andhope you enjoy the rest of the
show.
Catch you.
I know you're not hunting hinds, but is that useful If someone

(33:36):
was to hunt a hind?
Or just hunting Sanbury General?
If it's Brownstown and you gothonked at and you were trying to
hunt that deer, are youstanding still to then try and
locate it and then maybe take astep sideways to get it to
respond and then take a shot?
Or is it better to sit down andlet it?
You know, go back, they're notgoing to calm down very quickly,

(33:57):
are they?

Speaker 2 (33:59):
They can.
So Sambur are funny right, likeif you've hunted chittle and
I've hunted chittle, but onlywith the bow right, if one
chittle out of a mob sees youand does its little bark, the
whole mob runs without question.
I saw it with a spiky, right,you know it's a full Samba

(34:20):
hunter.
I was stalking in on this mobof chittle and this one spiky
pinned me right Of 30 deer.
He pinned me and I've just gone.
They won't pay any attention tohim.
So I kept doing what I wasdoing, because I was hunting
Samba that had white dots right,and he went and they all just
didn't even think for a splitsecond.
They all took off hunting themall.
Now Samba, don't do that.
Samba can quite often hear ahonk and not even lift their

(34:43):
head from feeding, depending onwhat animal does the honk or
what style of honk it might beStyle of honk, but also who did
the honk?
If it's a young deer, they'remore than likely might pay a
little bit of attention, but notmuch attention.
But if it's a matriarch hind,then they're going to all pay
attention or a big stay.

(35:04):
But so the honk?
Yeah, if you hear a honk thenit's obviously a way of locating
a deer If you can tell whatkind of honk it is.
So there's the honk, shit.
It's a hunter.
I'm out of here, usuallyfollowed by a 300-kilogram deer
crashing through the bush withno regard to eye safety.
You know, they just must squintand just go for it because they

(35:25):
don't worry about bushes orshrubs or anything.
They just go beelining.
That deer is gone, wave goodbye, go find another deer.
But if you get that inquisitivehonk I've seen something, what
was that then there's a reallygood chance.
If you stay still or get low tothe ground and reduce your human
figure and even make a bit of acall with a flex mark or I've.

(35:49):
I've tried rubbing trees withsticks and stamping my foot and
grunting and doing all sorts offunny little noises.
They can.
They're quite inquisitive, theywill come in for a look or
they'll step out just, and theydo a lot of this sort of stuff
right where their head's bobbing, trying to get a different
angle on you, because they'veseen something they haven't
smelt you.

(36:09):
If they smell you, they're goneright.
They don't ever second guesstheir nose, they second guess
their eyes and their ears.
So, yeah, a honk can allow youto get that location and I've
shot a few deer that have beenhonking at me and you can move
around a fair bit if you reduceyour height down to an animal,

(36:30):
because they've obviously notreally worked out what you are.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
You could be a kangaroo, or yeah, it could be
another deer.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
I've done the old you know bend down and sort of try
to give myself a back line andbasically ran at them and they
don't run away until you standup.
Um, I've tried all sorts offunny things.
I've been the wallaby in thepaddock and that works.
Uh, sandbag, like I talkedabout earlier.
Have that.
They have a natural um safetyzone around them which I reckon

(37:04):
is about 30 yards in thickcountry and it might be out to
50, 60 meters in more opencountry, and the more open it
gets, the bigger it gets.
But what it is is that thatsame 30 meter zone that a tiger
needs to be within.
So if that tiger, if you arethe tiger and you're inside that
zone, you'll get a honk.

(37:25):
That is, oh shit, hunter, I'mout of here.
You won't get the honk, whatare you sort of thing.
But outside that zone you canquite regularly get that honk.
What are you zone?
Because you're outside of thatnatural zone.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
I call it the zone of influence.
Yeah, two things scent youspoke about and you said it's
unavoidable.
It's unusual that they willsecond-guess their ears
considering the size of theirears From a caping point of view
and taxidermy their ears areactually quite enjoying it.
Yeah, they're huge, they'reeasier to do than a small one.

(38:02):
Yeah, and so you're sayingthey're easier to do than a
small one?
Yeah, and so you're sayingtheir scent is unavoidable?
Oh, sorry, they don't secondguess their scent.
Do you do anything to maskyours other than wind direction?

Speaker 2 (38:14):
No, okay, so you're not one.
I wash all my clothes in Dominoor whatever the hell.
It is that the wife has Whiteor white is brighter colours?
I don't believe in any of that.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
What about camouflage ?

Speaker 2 (38:28):
It's all scented.
I definitely use camouflage,but that's to hide from hunters,
gotcha.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
And on the camouflage topic, one that I ask every
Samba person I know, and theyall have a different answer
orange.
Now, obviously, state forest,you've got to wear orange and
things.
What colour are tigers?
Orange.
So in my mind, originally Iused to think that what a dumb
choice.
You'd think that they would becoded to see that colour of grey

(38:56):
as a threat.
What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Well, you're thinking the wrong way.
You're thinking from the preyside.
Think of the predator.
Why would he be ironed if adeer could see?

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, that's what got corrected when I asked everyone
.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
So basically it's a colour they can't see.
Apparently, if you readanything about deer's vision,
they can't see that colour.
It blends in with greens orbrowns or something.
I've hunted with blaze orangesince I was 17.
I've hunted with blaze orangewhen I was bow hunting.

(39:33):
I don't believe that it glowsor it shows up, usually solid
colours.
So if I have a blaze cap, if Icould get mine, it's got black,
you know through it.
So if you go black and whitethen it just looks like anything

(39:59):
else.
But yeah, I honestly don'tthink they see it.
They can't see it becauseotherwise we'd never get that
close otherwise we wouldn't beable to shoot them.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
One of the other ones was that I learnt early on in
my non-samba hunting career waspositioning yourself.
So you're looking at what Iwould call the north face, which
.
Can you explain that and Ihaven't looked into it too much
and I don't use this in mynormal hunting career but
wouldn't you, you know the sunrises in the east?

(40:30):
Wouldn't you be not looking fora face that faces the sun
directly as it's rising?
Like why a north face?

Speaker 2 (40:41):
So I don't subscribe to the North Face theory.
There's a few things that havebeen a common thing that people
have said.
It's like, sam, do you bedthree-quarters of the way up a
hill?
Well, yes, they do, but theyalso bed everywhere in between,

(41:02):
all the way to the river flats.
So there's rules.
People have talked about thingsfor so long that people just
think that that's so.
The North Face thing, right,don't forget North Face and
think where does the sun impact?
At the first chance it can.

(41:23):
So when it comes up over thehill in the morning, where does
that sun hit?
I don't look at my compass andgo, oh, it's not a north face,
I'm not looking at that.
If it's got sun on it, it's gotsun on it.
It could be, you know, like adifferent.
It's going to have some sort ofnortherly aspect to it, but it
could be a northeast, it couldbe a northwest, depending on

(41:50):
where the hill is.
It could almost be a southaspect as well, because just the
way the sun works, depending onthe terrain you know what I
mean the flatter it is.
If it's a flat, well, whataspect is a flat?
Is it northeast, southwest,what is it?
It's all all of the above isn'tit?
And the theory is that Samba arelooking for the sun, and that's

(42:11):
true for the very coldestmonths of the year, but it's
totally the opposite.
In December and January, whenit's really hot, they're not
looking for the north face atall, they're looking for shade,
and the temperature where theystart looking for shade is very
similar to when we start lookingfor it.

(42:31):
So the way I look, what I tryto teach is if you're
uncomfortable sitting in the sunand looking to sit in the shade
, so are the deer.
If you are sitting in the shadeand you're uncomfortable and
you want to sit in the sunbecause it's nice and warm, they
are doing the same.
So don't worry about whattemperature it is, just go.
What do I want to do?
Comfort level.
I want to sit in the shade.
The deer are sitting in theshade.

(42:52):
I want to sit in the sun.
That's what the deer are doing.
But there's always 90 and 10,right?
So 90% will be following thatand 10% will be doing something
completely different Sitting ona sunny hillside in a 30-degree
day.
What are some othermisconceptions of Samba?
Yeah, here's a good one.
Have you ever heard that Sambadeer bed up behind trees to hide

(43:15):
from hunters?
I have.
They put a tree there.
So I just had the client lastweek not this last one, but the
one before and he was talking tome about how he'd been on a
hunter education course and theytalked about how the samba put
put the tree in over their vitalsign, vital zones and all this

(43:36):
sort of thing.
And I said, all right, well,when we find a deer bed today,
I'll explain to you why the deerbed is there.
Can I guess?

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Can I guess?

Speaker 2 (43:46):
All right, yeah, have a guess.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
Just because it's a slightly flatter spot, because
the dirt goes up towards thetree.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Well, 50% of the way there, yeah, right.
So why is the tree there?
Did the deer pick that?
The tree was there?
No, no.
So, right, we need to draw apicture in our minds, right?
So we've got a slope and thenwe've got a tree growing out of
the slope, right straight up.
When we get heavy rain, whathappens with the dirt and the

(44:16):
twigs and the leaves?
We get erosion that runsdownhill.
What does it hit when it getsto the tree?
The stump, right, the butt ofthe tree.
So, naturally, over time andusually the bigger the tree, the
more time the tree has beenthere, right?
So over 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 100years, that tree has grown

(44:40):
there.
That debris has built up at thebase of that tree and it forms a
natural flat spot and it's soft.
And guess what?
The deer walks along and goesthere's a natural flat spot, I'm
going to sit there, it's goingto be comfortable.
It doesn't think shit.
There's a tree.
Oh, I know old mate sittingover there with his 300 prc and

(45:00):
his Swarovski scope and he'sgoing to shoot me from 780 yards
away.
He doesn't know that.
He hasn't adapted to hidingfrom modern hunters, he's
adapted to hiding from tigers.
Right, he's still got thatinstinct.
He doesn't have the instinct tohide from 300 PRCs at 780 yards

(45:22):
, right, but that tree hascreated that flat spot.
Another one was the hide behindstumps.
Well, naturally when a treefalls over it drags out a bit of
soil and then over time thaterosion once again naturally
fills up that hollow.
Sometimes they turn intowallows, but sometimes they turn

(45:42):
into the best flat spot you'veever seen.
And then what happens is abushfire comes through, burns
that log completely.
So you don't even know that thelog was there and you go wow,
look at this awesome spot.
And that was formed from a treefalling over the roots pulling
the dirt out.
The erosion coming down fills inthe flat spot.
The deer comes along and goesthat's a cool flat spot.

(46:04):
I'm sitting there because Idon't want to sit on a hill like
this.
I want to sit on a flat spot.
That's why stags love ridges,because naturally ridges have
these little ups and downs andwhen you get that little steep
up and then the little flat out,that's where they'll have beds
up there.
The stags particularly lovebedding on ridges.
That's why they love rock,those big rock bluffs that

(46:28):
everyone wants to find.
There's natural flat spots atthe top of them, and especially
at the bottom of it, and that'spurely through natural erosion
of the soil.
It's not because of any otherfeature.
It is that there is a flat spotthere and the deer know it.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
You know what it's like to walk across a hill with
crooked ankles.
You're looking for a flat spotto rest on.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Yeah, that's why they form game trails right, so they
walk the same way regularlyenough to form a flat walking
surface.
Where do we?

Speaker 1 (46:59):
walk when we're in the bush?
We're just dumbos, aren't weJust trying to make sense of
what they're doing?
Yeah, where do we walk whenwe're in?

Speaker 2 (47:04):
the bush.
We're just dumbos, aren't weJust trying to make sense of
what they're doing.
Yeah, well, I think what'shappened over the years is some
people have been veryintelligent and have made deer
hunting into something right,whereas I dumb it down a bit
right.
So I don't want to know thescientific botanical names of

(47:24):
the plants.
I don't want to think that thedeer has comprehension of I'm
going to stand behind this treeso the hunter can't shoot me.
It's pure coincidence thatSamba stand behind a tree,
because there's so many bloodytrees for him to stand behind.
You know, when they live inthat open country, they don't
run to a tree and stand behindit, they go oh shit, you got me.

(47:49):
So a lot of what has been saidin the past is it's not
misinformation, but it's.
You know you're making it outto be something more than it is.
Deer react to their environment, their habitat, hunting,
pressure, the weather, that sortof thing, nothing more they

(48:10):
don't have conscious thought of.
I'm going to.
You know they don't dig outbeds, right.
Why don't they use their feetto dig out a bed?
They don't do that.
They naturally find flat spots.
I've never found a bed where Icould physically see scrape
marks, where they've been tryingto flatten it out or even move

(48:31):
a stick.
That was there.
So quite often and I findmyself doing this and I laugh at
myself is if I see a deer bedand it's got a rock in the
middle of it and I think shit,that would be uncomfortable, I
kick it off from it and I thinkmaybe one day that'll be good
karma and a big stag will besitting there one day because
he's more comfortable sittingthere without the rock.

(48:51):
Make it better for him.
That's my silly brain.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
So in that silly brain of yours, we're going to
head towards wrapping up.
We've still got a little bit toget to, but everything we've
covered tonight, and more, isavailable through a hunting
course that you do it is.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
How does the?

Speaker 1 (49:11):
course operate?
How do people find you Sure?

Speaker 2 (49:15):
So I've got a couple of different ways we can do this
.
Basically, I like to educatepeople.
I like to see people enjoyinghunting right, because I believe
if we can promote people intoenjoying it, we'll have more
people doing it.
It makes it harder for thegreenies and the lefties to get
rid of us, right?
So the more people doing it,the better, but we want people

(49:35):
doing it the right way,ethically, all the rest of it.
But also to do that, you needto enjoy it, right?
So bumbling around in the bushfor 15 years trying to work it
out for yourself isn't alwaysthe best way to do it.
So, trying to get onto someonelike a mentor, if you can get a
mentor, a personal mentor,that's key, right?

(49:57):
So don't worry about me.
If you can find someone to showyou the ropes, that's done it.
They're the ones that you wantto cotton on to because they're
just going to shorten up yourlearning.
Right, because they've done itbefore.
But if you haven't got thatperson in your circle of hunting
friends or whatever, check outmy website, so

(50:17):
wwwzebrashuntingcom, and thereyou will find a link to my
online course.
So, basically, the onlinecourse is 16 modules, goes
through a heap of differentlessons, from sign to navigation
, the gear you need shotplacement, field butchering,

(50:38):
caping, how to find an area, allthe rest of it.
So everything in there, for thenew hunter up to the
intermediate hunter to get to apoint where you can be
successful on your own right.
Now it's interactive so it hasan online forum where you can
post questions and they comenotification straight to me.

(51:01):
So you might do the course andyou might be doing a navigation
module and something might makesense to you.
Post it up on the forum andthen I'll get the notification
and I'll answer your question.
So that's a cool kind of way,sort of interactive online
course that's a great course.
Yeah, and I'm going to expand onthat hopefully next year and

(51:25):
make it more interactive, whereI might actually do sell it as
sort of a separate thing to thatonline course.
But it will run very similar,where a group of people will
join up and then, over four orfive months, I'm going to take
you from zero to get in yourfirst deer right.
That's going to be the mission.

(51:46):
So if you've literally gone anddecided I've looked at a wild
deer magazine, that's it.
I'm hooked.
I'm going to do this.
I'm going to help you get yourfirearms license, game license,
all the gear you need how tofind a spot, how to shoot.
I'm thinking about doing arange day and then going through

(52:07):
to a weekend away as a groupwith me so that we can go and
have a hunt and hopefully that'sat the end of that we can get a
deer each.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
And you're not going to take them to where you took
Christoph?
Obviously no.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
But so I'm going to be working on that one over the
summer actually.
But I've also within Patreon.
So if you haven't heard ofPatreon, it's just another.
It's a paid platform that itwas created to support content
creators and artists and all therest of it.
A lot of YouTubers have gotonto it to make some income.

(52:44):
Basically is what it is.
So, because my channel is sosmall in size, the views that
you get from YouTube and the adrevenue that you make is minimal
.
It's a couple of thousanddollars a year kind of thing.
So, to sort of build it intosomething, patreon's just become
a way of having your supportersand your followers donate to

(53:10):
you so that you can continue todo what you're doing.
And, to be honest with you,without the support that I've
got on Patreon, I wouldn't bedoing anything of what I am
doing now, because it isactually allowing me financially
to remove myself from my tradeof 25 years and follow this path
that I'm on.

(53:30):
But within Patreon I have amentor tier, so it's $250 a
month, but what that does is itgives you access to me.
Phone, you know, zoom calls.
Computer screens you know.
We talk about where you'rehunting, strategies to hunt your

(53:53):
areas or any question you'vegot.
You know you can ring me, emailme, message me, whatever, and
over that month you've got myattention.
Now there's only three peopleper month that can get onto that
tier, just so that I don'tspread myself out too thin,
because quite often you get acouple of blokes that are just
full-on.
They just want to knoweverything and it takes up a lot
of time.

(54:13):
But that's why I've sort of cutit off at three, just so I can
give you that time that youdeserve.
You know, um, so that's thathas been really successful.
I've had numerous people taketheir first year or their first
day or their best day after amonth or two of mentoring
basically just phone calls,messages.

(54:35):
You know, a few Google linksshared between each other.
This is how I'd hunt that spot,or I might even actually have
knowledge of that area whereI'll say you're wasting your
time there, go around the corner, drop into there.
Then you're gonna be on thedeer.
But yeah, at the moment that'ssort of what I've got going on.
I've got some bigger plans forthe next year with some drop

(55:00):
hunts, which will be self-guidedstyle hunts, where I'll take
you into areas, drop you offwith, with, obviously, some
knowledge and GPS with somewaypoints on it of interest, so
that that way you know thequestion about the guy coming
from Sydney might be worthcontacting me.

(55:21):
You pay me a, you get droppedoff into a productive area.
At least that way you knowyou're not wasting your time
driving to and from and havingto do heaps of scouting.
I'm putting you into areas thatI have knowledge on and I know
that there's going to be trophydeer or you know deer that you
want to harvest for me in thatarea, all you've got to do is

(55:42):
piece it all together.
Where you know deer that youwant to harvest for meat in that
area, all you've got to do ispiece it all together.
Where you know where the personthat can't afford to or I'm
booked out for a guided huntmight enjoy doing the
self-guided style hunt but beingplaced into the hotspot, if you
want to say it like that, andthese are on public land.

(56:02):
Yeah, all public land.
So I am the only one that Iknow of I was getting there.
So correct me if I'm wrong, giveme a message.
If you are a business running ahunting business that's running
in Victoria on public land thathas Parks Victoria tour guide

(56:22):
licence, I'd like to hear fromyou.
You can look me up on theirwebsite, parksvictoriacom and go
to tool guides.
Click on hunting as an activityand you will see all the tool
guides that are licensed to hunton public land.
So state forest and nationalpark in Victoria.
You'll see all the tool guidesthere listed.

(56:43):
It's a pretty long list.
Just Seb, it's me, just Seb,just me, yeah.
So I have weekly interactionswith Parks Victoria, a fair bit
with GMA as well too, becauseI'm always in the bush.
They're actually quiteinterested to know what I'm
observing, which is, you know,it's all part of it, I suppose.

(57:04):
Yeah, but I've got a prettygood relationship with Parks
Victoria through being the firstlicensed tour guide operating a
hunting business.
They're actually quiteintrigued to what I wanted to do
and where I wanted to do it andall the rest of it.
So it's been quite good dealingwith it.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
Congratulations for heading down that path.
You get to the pointy end ofthe game when you're the only
ones.
I mean like not in the samescope at all, but in my fencing
business in my local area hereand this came up tonight on a
Facebook post I'm pretty sure Iam the only licensed fencer in
my area and the license carriesnot a whole lot of weight.

(57:44):
It's just a fair Department ofFair Trading.
You know I'm a licensed tradesperson but you know regularly I
get comments on Facebook.
You know my fence blew down andthere's just like 30 tags of
like handyman and I can fix itand Jim's this and whatnot.
And I don't actually usuallycomment my own business, I just

(58:05):
say something like I don't carewho you go with, like just ask
for their licence details ortheir insurance details or
anything.
And it's the same in our gig onthe guiding thing.
There used to be an AustralianGuides Association and there
isn't at the moment.
There is a little bit of pushfor one in return, but the first

(58:29):
place it will appear will be inthe Northern Territory because
it's highly like the money upthere is incredible for American
clients.
Yeah, and then hopefully itfilters down because I think
isn't a rising tide lifts allboats Like, I think, if we can
increase the quality andstandard across the board and I
say this a lot, there's a lot ofguides out there.

(58:50):
There's very few outfittersthat do it well, anyone can be a
guide.
You can take people hunting andmake two or 300 bucks or
whatever, but it's when you getto that next level, like you
have, it's yeah, that's thepointy end of the triangles.
Now, before before we wrap up,uh, I've said it 97 times,

(59:11):
you're heading somewhere in thenext couple of days.
That's why I nabbed you justbefore you fly out.
But by the time this episodecomes, uh to air and I'm
probably going to split it intwo because it's been a pretty
long one, but we'll see how itgoes you will already be over
there or maybe on your way back.
But where are you headed?

Speaker 2 (59:31):
What are you doing?
So I'm heading to Montana, yeah, so Montana, flying into
Bozeman and then driving outtowards Gardner.
I believe it is to go and catchup with some friends that are
already over there now actuallythey flew out a week ago.
Um, he does a bit of taxidermyback home and every year he goes

(59:51):
over and does like a weektaxidermy sort of course to try
and improve and learn differenttechniques and whatnot.
But then he also catches upwith a friend that has an
outfitting business calledSpecimen Creek Outfitters and
basically they've got a bit of aplan to try and set up an

(01:00:13):
outfitting business to takeAussies over to Montana and
start guiding there.
So my mate's got a guidelicence and everything already,
so he's been doing that for acouple of years, which is pretty
cool.
But if he did set up a business,I said that I'd be interested
in maybe jumping on board to bea guide for maybe a couple of

(01:00:34):
hunts a year, but also toorganise bookings for Aussies
for my viewers, for anyone inAustralia that might be looking
to go over, like bookings forAussies for my viewers, you know
, for anyone in Australia thatmight be looking to go over and
chase an elk, or they also didgoats, bighorn sheep, mule deer,
I believe.

(01:00:55):
So you know, and that's kind ofpart of what I did in Africa as
well is set up that base forpeople to be able to contact
someone that they trust toorganize a hunt internationally,
so that you don't get caughtout on some sort of dud trip, um

(01:01:15):
, and like what we talked aboutprior to the podcast, with what
you're doing is, you know, youcan't really recommend something
unless you've been there andyou've experienced it.
So part of this trip is gettingover there, is learning how the
ranch runs.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
This is your recce.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
This is my reconnaissance.
So when I come back, if I'mgoing to sell a hunt to Montana,
I can say, well, this is whatthe accommodation's like, the
food's like this, the guidesthat are there are awesome
people, the hunting is like this.
The guides that are there are,you know, awesome people, the
hunting is like this, et cetera,et cetera.
Exactly like what I've done inAfrica and that's only a new

(01:01:52):
thing for me.
But I kind of build off myreputation.
I think everyone that sort offollows me can sort of see that
you know I'm not full of hotwind and bullshit.
So hopefully you know, if youare intending to hunt overseas,
internationally, somewhere, thatyou can take my word that you

(01:02:14):
know what I'm saying is true andI can alleviate a lot of the
issues that you can have whenyou go on an international hunt
which I've done myself, youwould have done before where you
get over there and it's notwhat you're expecting and it can
be a quite disappointingexperience if you've paid a lot
of money to get there, taken alot of time off, work, et cetera
.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
I think we've come full circle to Christoph again,
and it comes down to managingexpectations, and that's what
we're trying to do.
I mean, you know I'm not goingto send someone to africa, that
you know he's not into thatstyle of hunting, and I can tell
them that before I go there.
Or you know we send themsomewhere else in africa.

(01:02:56):
That's not, you know, the yeah,different style high fence stuff
, estate stuff, but it's, butit's a whole other.
It's not what people imagine ashigh fence, but that's a topic
for another night.
But it's funny you talk about,you know, familiarities.
I mean Zeb and I only spoke onthe phone the other day for the
first time really, and you knowhe starts mentioning this place.

(01:03:17):
He's going to Specimen Creek.
I said, oh, that's a prettynice place, and I don't know
whether he fully clicked onstraight away, but like I, I
have hunted that area and uh,the outfit I was with was right
next door.
Um, I've spent many nightsdrinking too many cheap coronas
and gardener and they do areally good prime rib down there
.
It's.
It's a great little town butand I believe the outfit you're

(01:03:40):
working for is actually brothersof the outfit that I- was
working for yes, so you musthave went with Hells of Roran.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
It's an amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
That's it.
Hells of Roran, it's an amazingplace, just that whole area.
Gardner Airport's an amazingairport.
That town is, you know, justfull of Bozeman.
Sorry Bozeman Airport, bozeman,sorry Bozeman Airport, bozeman.
Yeah, it's just full of likeold-school country and it's

(01:04:11):
actually I think it's the homeof.
I think they're in Bozeman?

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Yeah, it is, I saw that today.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Yeah, so yeah, they're in Bozeman, so you know,
definitely worth going to checkout.
I think First Lightsheadquarters are there too,
maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Yeah, Stone Glacier Just some interesting stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
But, yeah, it's a small world.
When you yeah, I've been to theStone, glacier place, schnee's
as well is there another bootsort of company.
Once you get into the gold andthe booking agency side of
things, it's a small world.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
I had a mate call in the other day and we're
organising a trip to New Zealandnext year.
Anyway, he's going where areyou going again?
And I'm sort of explaining itto him and he goes I've been
there somewhere and I said whatwas the name of the outfit?
And he goes, oh, hell Something.
And I go not Hell's aurora,because yeah, that's where I
went.
So my, my mate that I hunt withall the time has has been on a

(01:05:06):
hunt with hell's aurora and I'mgoing with the brother next door
, basically.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
So yeah, it is a small world yeah, well then, the
reason there is a there is afair few guys that have been
over at hell's aurora, and it'sbecause a lot of the guys he had
working over there wereaustralians.
So there's a couple that havebeen over there.
Jamie Bell is one, jamie.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
Bell yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
He's been in the industry for a long time and he
guided there for many years andthen his daughter has been over
there and worked there and thenfriends of his have gone and
worked there.
I'm trying to think of alltheir names right now.
And that's know, and that's howI got my start was through,
like a third person removed downfrom Jamie Bell had gone over

(01:05:47):
and then gave me my you know,connection and start.
So it's just one of thoseplaces that you'll be walking
around Shot Show and you'retalking about elk hunting and
they're like oh, I've been overthere and that's the same place.
Yeah, it's a crazy place on theside of yellowstone.
So, man, I look forward tohearing your stories when you

(01:06:09):
get back.
Um, we'll catch up.
We'll catch up in person atshot show also just on the shot
show.
Thing if anyone has never heardof shot show, this is not zeb
related, but or shot expo, Ithink they're calling it.
It is an amazing place to visitand I was talking to the
organizers down there todayabout something and like he said
, oh what does Shot Show mean toyou?

(01:06:30):
And I'm like I just I cannotexplain it.
It's like like I love chocolateand it'd be like me at the
Cadbury factory it's just fullof everything I love the people,
the industry, the new products,the old products.
You know, just this hub of hivelike this buzz of excitement,

(01:06:50):
and we haven't had one for a fewyears, so it's even going to be
extra special this year.
It's in Melbourne.
I think it's the 18th and 19thof October, october, yep.
Highly recommend anyone grabs aticket October, october, yep,
highly recommend anyone grabs aticket.
It's only I want to say it'slike $40, $28 a day or something
, $30 a day.

(01:07:11):
It's not crazy money.
I think it was, yeah, $50 forthe two-day pass or something.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
So yeah, anyway that's a side note.
There's been a few in thisepisode Highly recommend.
You'll be down there with.
Yeah, I'll be down there withPulver Safaris from South Africa
.
I'll be in their standpromoting their business.
But, yeah, drop in and have achat about it really.
Also, I've been invited to bethe guest speaker at the ADA

(01:07:39):
dinner.
So if anyone's in Melbourne Ithink on the 5th of October they
do have limited tickets jump onboard there.
I'll be talking there.
I think I've got two half hourslots there, so I think they do
like a four course dinner andthey give away, or the
presentation for the ArthurBentley biggest Samba of the

(01:08:01):
year is given that night and afew other different things.
So it should be a good night.
If anyone's interested inhearing what I've got to say a
bit more, if you're in town,have a look at buying a ticket.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
That's a pretty good invite to get there, mate.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
Yeah, I'm pretty proud of that one actually.
Yeah, so in front of all thepeers, which is good, yeah, I'm
sort of getting a little bithumble there.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
I do feel sorry for the organisers trying to keep
you to a half an hour time slot.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
Yeah, yeah, I know, yeah, I know it's a struggle.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
I think I don't even know how far we've gone in
tonight because we've brokendown halfway there.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
But, mate, I really appreciate it.
We were at 90 minutes and nowwe're at 60 minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
I hope they head across yeah, I know, but I hope
for anyone listening head overand check out Zeb's channel,
check out the YouTube stuff,check out the Patreon, Send him
a message and say hello, and for250 bucks a month you get

(01:09:12):
unlimited samba knowledge.
Uh, which is it's like.
I understand that people willbalk at that and say, god, it's
a lot of money for nothing.
But it's you know, you thinkabout if you want to book a
specialist appointment for yourkid to go and see a doctor.
It's $250 to $450 for oneappointment for an hour for a
specialist in an industry.
What you're getting here is aspecialist.

(01:09:33):
That's right.
You're getting a specialist inan industry for a month to you
know, basically to yourself.
You've got to share him withhis wife, kids and two other
people, but you know that's asmall price to pay, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
And I'm not overly, I know you know Errol's got his
books and whatnot.

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
And I technically well, true, but I technically
own Errol's books I thinkthey're in the corner over here
in my bookshelf but I don't readthem.
I'm more of this sort of personof conversation.
So you know, I'd love to comeand do your course, come and do
his course and just learn moreabout Sambra in general.
But I look forward to catchingup with you down at Chacho,
that's for sure.
Yeah, we'll be good.

(01:10:17):
Any final words before we wrapup.
I shouldn't say that becauseit'll be 25 minutes I'm going to
cut you off.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
We're done, we're calling it.
I do so.
Just, everyone just enjoyhunting for what it is.
Try to stay on the right sideof the line and everyone can
continue to enjoy what we've got, especially in Victoria, we've
got almost unlimited access to awhole heap of public land and
we don't want to stuff that upfor the next generation.

(01:10:44):
So just think about your impacton what could happen in the
future.

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
Well said, zeb, and we'll leave it there.
Thanks for now and for everyone.
I'll talk to you soon.
Thanks for listening.
Just wanted to remind you of acompetition we've got going at
the moment Hunt or Hat.
Now head over towwwaccuratehuntscom forward
slash podcast.
On that page you'll find asubmission form.

(01:11:15):
Send us in a question Now.
Topic-specific, generalizedquestion, beginner question,
advanced question, question forme, question for a guest,
whatever you want it to be, sendit through and if we read it on
air as one of the questions weroll through with our guests,
you get a chance to win a hat.
So either myself or the guestwill pick a winner, best

(01:11:37):
question and that person wins ahat.
Now, to compliment that,everyone that sends a question
in goes in the draw to win ahunt with me.
So not just those that win thehat and get on air, everyone who
sends a question.
So send them in.
I've loved reading and there'sbeen some pearlers and I look
forward to cracking through someof them a lot more than I
expected, to be honest.
So we're up to nearly 100 or so, but we're getting through.

(01:12:01):
So please send them in, keep intouch, let me know what you
think and good luck to all thosepeople who send in entries.