Ep 6. Reawakening Instincts and Crafting Life from the wild with Eva and Will from Wild Beings

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
On the sixth episode of Accurate Hunts.
How did it feel in your mind toconsume that meat for the first
time?

Speaker 2 (00:15):
So I can tell you exactly because it's still such
a strong visceral memory.
Yeah, you can never, unless youjust go full memetic and say
see you later to your wholefamily and everything and learn
how to hunt and be okay withbeing alone, which would make
you eventually crazy.
We're always going to be partof the system to a degree.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
And he said but the feet are the highest carriers of
bacteria on the external partof the animal because they're
always in the mud, they're inthe ground.
So he said, you've just hung itupside down, or be it in a cold
area, so where does bacteria go?
It grows and you come down.
So not something I'd considered.
And now I remove the hawks.

(00:55):
Here we are again AccurateHunts at Life Outdoors, and
tonight I have two specialpeople that I've met along my
journey and I've learned a lotfrom them, and they live an
outdoors life and I think I livean outdoors life and they put
me to shame.

(01:15):
I've never slept in a caveovernight.
So we have Eva and Will joiningus tonight from the central
coast.
Welcome guys.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Thanks, dodge, thanks Dodge, good to be here.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Good to be here, thanks for having us, but I want
it to tonight's a little bitdifferent.
We obviously are huntingoutdoors based podcast and this
falls more into the outdoorstype conversation.
I stumbled across you guys whenI was doing a bit of a
recording traveling junket inthe last six months and we met

(01:46):
at a random location on a randomevent and it did involve
animals and some skinning.
So if you want to maybe touchon how you ended up at that
event and what it was, yeah,absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
So.
That event was a seven dayusing the whole animal course
with Dr Teresa Camper, which isan amazing, amazing skilled
primitive skills teacher fromthe UK.
She was on season eight ofalone and she has been someone
that I've been really followingher work for many years because,

(02:18):
in regards to, like primitiveskills and ancestral technology,
there's not a lot of skilledpractitioners of that in this
country.
It's really hasn't fullyintegrated into the culture here
yet, but it's huge overseas.
It's so big in America and inEurope, and so she is one of the

(02:38):
many inspiring people that Ifollow online.
And yeah, gordo.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
You're a fan girling.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
And there was no hiding that.
It was obvious.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, yes, yeah, absolutely.
Just because her work is sothorough, like she has spent so
much of her life delving intothe traditional tanning and then
using the whole animal as well,and she's shown that she's
capable of that by going on thealone and the Stone Age
documentary thing she was on aswell, where I think it was for a

(03:11):
month they had to make alltheir own.
Did you watch that?

Speaker 1 (03:13):
They had to make it yeah, surviving the Stone Age.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, yeah, that was awesome and that was really
incredible, because Will and Iare really into, you know, the
more Stone Age technology aswell.
And so, yeah, gordo fromBushcraft Australia brought her
over here and we were like, yes,let's get onto that.
And then, yeah, we meet afriendly guy that brought the
Wellbeys down, and that was you.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
And then Kangaroos Correct, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yes, that was a fun little journey.
I met both Gordo and Theresaand actually spent a bit of time
on both their courses and I didrecord some stuff with them.
I had some audio issues withGordo so you won't hear that one
, but I did lay down an episodewith Theresa and it was super
interesting.
I learned a lot in a shortamount of time.
I didn't do the full seven daycourse, I was only there for one

(04:03):
day of each.
But just an interesting ladyand her ability to explain step
by step the process and watchingher work with an animal she
hadn't worked on before was veryinteresting.
I actually get that comment abit with hunting.
If I go into a new area orpeople say, well, how do you not

(04:23):
get lost?
And it's utilizing the sameskill set but just applying it
to a different area or her to adifferent animal.
So it was cool to see hercaught off guard with some weird
functions of Kangaroos that shewasn't used to.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Absolutely.
That was really fascinatingactually watching her analyze
the anatomy as she was breakingit down, and she actually said
that the anatomy of the Kangaroois the most similar to human.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
With reference to a collar bone as well.
Their shoulder has a collarbone attached, whereas deer and
goats and things don't.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Absolutely.
And then the skin being sodifferent because the neck
obviously it was a lot thinnerand on deer that's the thick
part the rump is still very,very thick.
But yeah, it was justfascinating watching her kind of
navigate through that animaland not ever knowing it, but
really figuring it out as shegoes and applying her skill set

(05:27):
with other animals onto theKangaroo was very cool.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
And you guys did some weird stupid stuff with
Kangaroo parts, you know, usingbladders as water containers and
all sorts of things.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Do you want to talk about the eye?

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, what did you do ?

Speaker 3 (05:42):
There was lots of cool stuff we picked up from
that course.
One of them was the I believeit's called the Bittress Fluid
in the eyeball.
It's like made up of mostlyproteins which can be used as a
binder with different materialslike crushed up charcoal.
Or if you heat up bones so muchwhere it's still white but it

(06:07):
just crushes into a powder supereasily, then you can mix it
with that and then you got likeblack and white paints that you
can go and paint with.
So finding out that the eggwhites is pretty similar and you
can just use that if you don'thave eyeballs on hand, but it's
still cool to like.
You know, put a use Absolutely.

(06:28):
There's many different things.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
That's a cool use.
I don't think there's any eggwhites available in Kangaroos,
so stick to that.
And bones as well.
She was using bones for things.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
Yeah, we did.
We made a whole bunch ofdifferent bone tools.
People ended up with differenttools out of the animal because
we all had different bones towork with, but some of them were
like hide fleshing tools,basically different bits of like
jewelry.
Yeah, lots of awls and weavingneedles and things like that.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
And for anyone who doesn't know what an awl is, a
bone awl is something that you apiece of bone, obviously that
you sharpen into a point thatyou then push a hole through the
hide, so then you can sew.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah, that's a yeah, a pre stitching method.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Pop that through and then follow it.
Yes, that was.
It was an interesting courseand as soon as I didn't tell you
this.
But I was sitting in the circleand I'd just finished
interviewing Teresa when youguys all walked in and I was
like, oh, I know that lady andthat was you.
I was had been following youonline prior, just on Instagram,

(07:42):
watching your stuff, and thatwas on Wild Beings.
So this is your setup and whereyou've come from.
If you want to, you know, justtell us a bit of your history
and where you've come from andhow you started that.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, so I founded Wild Beings, which is the
organization that Will and I run, in 2020.
And at that point in my life, Iwas living in a bell tent on my
aunt's beautiful, beautifulproperty which is like 200 acres
in the middle of Yango NationalPark, which is like very, very

(08:14):
vast and wild out there.
And I was living out there fora year.
And at that point in my life, Ihad already been living outside
for a couple of years beforethat and that was the first time
I was traveling around.
A lot before that, that was thefirst time that I was in one
place and on one piece of landfor a whole year and I really

(08:36):
just really got deep into themore, yeah, bushcraft skills and
ancestral skills, because I wasin one place and you need to be
really grounded and have timeand space to be able to go into
these skills Because, as youwould have seen, dodge they yeah
, they're not just quick thingsthat you can just figure out on
a weekend or something.
You have to really put a lot oftime and energy and focus into

(09:00):
them to be able to practice them, to figure them out as well.
So, yeah, I founded Wild Beingsthen and since then, will and I
and our other co-founder, clay,have just been running camps,
basically just getting peopleconnected to the bush and also
teaching them bushcraft skillsand skills that bring them into

(09:21):
more of a relationship with thebush Like that's pretty much the
basis of it.
It's not just bushcraft orsurvival we do those skills but
the intention that we have andthe foundations is to make
people understand that we haveevolved as hunter-gatherers.
We've always had relationshipwith the land, and the only
thing different now is thatwe're living in cities and not

(09:43):
utilizing all of those sensesand those innate knowings that
are already within us.
So, yeah, it's been a reallyamazing journey.
Yeah, and it just keeps growingorganically.
You know, here on the CentralCoast there's a lot of beautiful
alternative people that want.
They just want more realnessand more nature connection, and

(10:05):
to be able to offer that in apractical way as well has been,
yeah, really really awesome.
And then it means that we'vebeen able to deepen into those
skills that we are so passionateabout, about living, yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
So that's in a nutshell Two questions and I'll
let you answer them separately.
When did it start for you, thewhole wanting to be more
connected and living outdoors?
Was it a childhood thing ormore of a teenage thing, and was
there something that happened?
And then the second question isyou say more alternative people
.
I actually it's interestingword, I suppose but you would

(10:41):
say that they're alternative,but alternative to what we're
doing now.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
They're not alternative to what we have done
for centuries.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
That's right.
Yeah, more normal people.
Really, we should say yeah.
So I grew up here on theCentral Coast and I was really
lucky Like we always livedreally close to the beach or we
had a bush reserve in the back.
So I always was exploring thebushlands when I was younger.
But, yeah, I had a pretty rowdyupbringing and oh, not

(11:12):
upbringing, but teenage yearsand early 20s going and partying
a lot.
So I kind of wasn't reallyfocusing on that aspect of what
I'm into, and it wasn't until Istarted traveling Australia in
2017, yeah, that I just kind ofremembered oh, this is amazing.
I really love this lifestyleand I love the bush and I want

(11:35):
to learn what all these peopleare doing.
I started meeting all thesepeople living off grid or living
out with indigenous communitiesand they were just living life
differently and I hadn't beenexposed to that kind of, yeah,
alternative reality for a reallylong time and that kind of
sparked me wanting to do thatwith my own life.

(11:55):
And then, yeah, when I cameback to the coast in 2018,
that's when I started gettinginto the bushcraft side of
things so foraging wild greensand learning about medicines in
the bush and things like thatand previously to that I'd been
a vego for like most of my life.
My mom's a vegetarian.
Never ate red meat.

(12:16):
When I was younger I used tohave a bit of chicken and fish
here and there, but I was apretty hardcore vego.
And then, yeah, I did asurvival food challenge with a
friend, so we only ate food thathe hunted and that we foraged
for those two weeks and that'sthe first time I introduced wild

(12:37):
meat back into my world and Ihaven't really looked back ever
since then.
It was really.
It just made a lot of sense toeat the land that's around us.
It just made so much sense.
So, yeah, I haven't reallylooked back since then.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
I want to know about your start Will, but you got to
wait because she just saidsomething that I can't, I can't
ignore for now.
We'll have to come.
I can't come back to it.
How did it, how did it feel inyour mind to consume that meat
for the first time?

Speaker 2 (13:11):
So I can tell you exactly, because it's still such
a strong visceral memory.
I was out at the bush camp thatwe were staying at and I was
literally by the fire.
It was all smoky and it was.
It was kangaroo jerky that wehad got from Roadkill kangaroo
and I remember eating it andchewing it really slowly and I

(13:34):
was like, all of a sudden itsounds like I feel like it
sounds cliche, but it washonestly like.
My body was like yeah, this is,this is what is normal, this is
what we need.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
Like it's not.
It's not cliche at all.
It's a common comment frompeople who try for the first
time.
It's their body, it's just.
It's like an exuberant yes 100%.
What I'm missing.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Absolutely, and it was.
It was like my, it was like agenetic awakening kind of thing
that my body was hungry for thiswild meat and like mentally it
made so much sense because I'vealways been so as many of us so
anti the mainstream meatindustry, and so all of a sudden
it all just made sense Like, ofcourse, wild meat it's right

(14:20):
here and yeah, it was reallycool.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
That's exciting.
Right your turn Will.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
All right.
So when I was like a kid, Ispent a lot of my time like
going for bush walks with my dadand that.
And then when I was a bit older, like you know, me and the kids
in the neighborhood would gospend a lot of time in the bush
building tree houses and havingglove gun wars and jumping into,

(14:47):
yeah, and jumping off likecreek banks, into Lantana for
fun and like it was just a veryyeah, I had a lot of freedom in
that sense to just go andexplore the nature around with
my friends and that, and I guessthat really like planted a seed
for me, because then when I gotolder and you know I was in

(15:11):
high school then you got yourHSC coming up, you got a lot of
distractions that pull you awayfrom the natural world and, yeah
, of course, like partying anddrinking and all that stuff.
When I was a young fella andjust kind of, yeah, veered away
from that side of things forlike a little while.
It was always still there I'denjoy like going for surfs and,

(15:34):
you know, trail runs every nowand then, but it wasn't, like
you know, the main pillar thatmy life is based off, like it is
now and, yeah, I've always beenkind of like, you know,
thinking about environmentalthings and being, you know, a
bit conscious about things thatway, and like back in the day

(15:58):
when a lot of those like vegandocumentaries came out and they
were saying, oh, you know, likewe're doing all this damage from
factory farming so it's betterto just eat plants for the
environment.
So I was like, oh yeah, I'lljust, I'll just do that then and
anyway, that eventually led medown a path where I became like
obsessed with, like the idea offruits, because it's like this

(16:22):
it's basically a gift from thetree or an exchange where you
know you receive the nutrientsand the sugars from the fruit
and you just your role then isto disperse the seeds so it can
reproduce somewhere else.
So I thought that was just likethe most amazing like concept.
I just wanted to do more ofthat.
So I ended up in the tropics,traveling around Borneo, chasing

(16:45):
like rare species of duriansand stuff, and learning all the
different, the different kindsof trees and what they looked
like and what flowers they hadand what the fruits tasted like,
and basically started buildingthis like deep connection in a
sense to all these trees,because I'm like really learning
about all their details andflavors and smells and all these

(17:09):
sort of things.
And basically, when I came hometo Australia, I felt like a
sense of emptiness almost,because I didn't have, you know,
that nature I was connecting toover there, I wasn't connecting
to it here.
So I felt like this, likesomething was missing out of my
life, basically.
And, yeah, I was just going fora run in the bush one day and

(17:33):
it just sort of like hit me, youknow, like this place has all
these amazing plants they'rejust not, like you know, exotic
fruiting trees that they havelike cool other uses and edible
in other ways.
So, yeah, the way I like toexplain it is the bush kind of

(17:54):
gave me a slap across the headand said you know, we're all
here waiting for you to learnabout, mate, like whenever you
are.
And yeah, that just sent medown a bit of a rabbit hole,
learning about like all of, yeah, all of the native plants and
their uses.
And I was still eating a vegandiet at that point in time, with

(18:15):
like that environmental thinggoing on.
And then, anyway, when I metEva and some other friends and
that, and you know, heard theconcept of like eating things,
like roadkill or conservation,hunted meat and all those sort
of things.
It was like, oh, you know, thatdoes kind of make sense.

(18:37):
Before I wanted to, like youknow, not have, like not be
taking life because you know youwant to conserve the
environment.
But that's not as simple as itis.
It's more complex and deep thanthat.
And yeah, and basically theplants were my introduction into

(18:57):
the world of all of nature,basically.
And then that just started likea train of learning, all these
different skills from you knowlearning about the plants to, oh
, you can use plants to makefire, oh, that's pretty cool.
Oh, you can use plants to makecordage.
You can use cordage to makestring bags or fishing line or,

(19:19):
yeah, to lash things together ormake shelter.
And then just suddenly realizingthat you know nature is really
all that we do need, Like if youinclude us as all of nature as
well, like everything else thatwe have in modern life is just
extras, like, yeah, we all loveit, or some of us really like

(19:43):
you know, like to live in ahouse all the time and work from
home on a laptop, like we arenow, but they're not necessarily
like you don't actually need it.
Once you have the knowledge, orsome of the knowledge, from the
land and how it can provide foryou, and I feel like coming into

(20:05):
wild beings and that kind ofthing that was like a really
strong thing I wanted to sharewith people is, like, you know,
nature has all this value for usand we have all this value we
can give back to nature.
Let's, let's do that, let's tryand make like people

(20:28):
enthusiastic about caring aboutthe land, because you can see
like it's intrinsic value fromall of that knowledge, if that
makes sense.
So like if you go for a bushwalk, you're not going for a
walk gun.
Oh, yeah, there's some trees.
You cut them down, it wouldn'tmake a difference.
You're saying, oh, that'smedicine, that's food, you can

(20:51):
make shelter, that's how youmake fire.
That tree helped me out when Iwas bleeding everywhere and I
was able to, like you know, stopthe blood flow and stop
infection, like just starting tobuild like ropes of
relationships with all theplants and all the animals and
like everything that's aroundyou and it's just really, yeah,

(21:13):
it's a beautiful feeling to havethat and it makes things like
bush walks much more engagingrather than, you know, just
seeing trees, your brainsrecognizing the patterns of all
the plants and all the movementsand everything.
No-transcript, it's justfeeding you information about
the landscape constantly.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
I think the ropes of relationships is a really good
comment, and I hadn't thoughtabout it like that.
I think that hunters getmistaken for people who don't
notice things.
But we are similar but in adifferent direction.
So we might start with theanimal.

(21:54):
We're hunting an animal, butwhilst doing that we're noticing
the wind, the weather, thetrees.
They're eating, the brush thatthey're living in, the way the
undergrowth is different,seasonal fruits and things
they're picking, and we donotice.

(22:15):
Okay, well, the deer are hereat this time of year because
that plant is flowering andthey're eating it.
So I think we forget that we'redoing those things.
They nearly become subconscious, A bit like you going for a
walk.
You are just walking, but inyour mind you're subconsciously
picking up on all those thingsyou just mentioned.

(22:36):
I want to ask what the worstfruit you tried was.
So you had some stinky ones.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
Nony is definitely the strongest tasting fruit I've
ever had in my life and I'vehad durian and jack fruits and
chimpadaks and all that stuff,but Nony is like, yeah, I don't
hate it either, so it's hard toanswer that question.
If anyone listening to thispodcast wanted to taste a fruit

(23:07):
that I think that they wouldfind the absolute worst, it
would be Nony.
It's kind of like spicy bluevein cheese that had been left
out in the sun for a couple ofweeks.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Dodge, I'll send you a personal video of me trying
Nony for the first time up inthe tropics last year.
That's basically what it was.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
In saying that the whole plant itself and the tree
and the fruit is extremelymedicinal and if you look up
some of the pollination culturesand stuff, how they use it,
it's like one of their mostimportant plants.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
No, you lost me at spicy.
I don't do spicy, I don't evenlike chili and pepper.
But what an introduction, bothof you to come from a vegan,
vegetarian style life and thenmoving into still, I'm assuming,
predominantly plant based, butwith the introduction of wild
game and wild meats.

(23:58):
Do you remember the first timeyou tried meat in that capacity?
We were like as vibrantly asEva does.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
Yeah, except I don't have feelings as vibrantly as
Eva does.
So for Eva it was like thissuper intense experience, but
for me I wanted it to be reallycasual, because we're talking
about eating meat here for thefirst time, or is this just yeah
?

Speaker 1 (24:25):
It feels like you're planning something else for the
first time.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
Yeah, but anyway, because I knew how Eva would
react to me wanting to try meatas well.
So basically, so she couldn'tgo.
Oh, what do you feel?
What's going on?
I planned to do it when we hadfriends coming over for dinner,

(24:50):
so she was just sitting theretrying to be super casual.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
I was trying to keep it so casual and for the context
, we had been living in a bushcamp at this stage for half a
year and I was bringing back.
We were still vegan at thispoint and I was bringing back
Roque all the time.
We were always skinning things,butchering things.
I was munging on that meat, soit was really cool.

(25:13):
Will was exposed to the bodiesof dead animals well before he
actually started to eat them,which was really cool.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
And yeah, before I was eating meat, I was skinning
the animals and butchering themso I could bring the meat back
for my friends.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
Bring it back for us, yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
And you never felt the urge just to cook some up.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
No, not at that time.
Yeah, I guess it was a littlebit of a process for me to like
sort of fully, you know, take itthrough my brain.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
What was the first?
What was the meat?

Speaker 3 (25:51):
Yeah, it was kangaroo .

Speaker 1 (25:53):
It was an Eastern Grey kangaroo, yeah right, there
must have been a lot of cleanroads near you guys.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Absolutely Always.
That's a living requirement ofwhere we are.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
Right, so we've done the vegetarian video.
Moving into the meat side ofthings, how do you guys, how do
you survive without what wewould call the mod cons and
things Like?
How do you find?
I don't know what the questionis, I suppose, but how do you
switch off from the things thatwe think we need, that we don't

(26:26):
actually need?

Speaker 3 (26:30):
Well, luckily for us it comes pretty natural because
we don't really like a lot ofthose things, like we try and
base our life as much as we canin the outdoors yeah, whenever
I'm talking for both of us herebut yeah, I feel the most calm,
the most relaxed, the mostproductive when I don't have

(26:54):
Like, when I'm not checking myphone, if I'm on the land where
we live and we've got a lot ofjobs and stuff we need to
constantly do and it's all basedaround nature.
So it can be like you know,hide, tanning or foraging or
redding fibres or collectingfibres to weave, like there's a

(27:16):
lot of like just small jobs likethat and just keeps you engaged
.
Yeah, and by the end of the dayyou feel really great.
You've done a whole bunch ofstuff.
You've been outside all day.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
And this is.
It's nearly full time for youguys, while beings.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Well, pretty much like it's interesting, you can
never really fully leave thesystem.
That's what.
After many years of havingfantasies about that and living
pretty far away from society attimes, I've realized that, yeah,
you can never, unless you justgo full memetic and say see you

(27:54):
later to your whole family andeverything and learn how to hunt
and be okay with being alone,which would make you eventually
crazy.
We're always going to be partof the system to a degree and so
what we've been trying toachieve lately is like finding
that balance.
So we're living out in abeautiful bush area where we can

(28:15):
do all of those ancestralskills and processing animals
and tanning that we couldn'tjust do in a suburban backyard.
But yet, then again, we stillhave that connection when we
come down to the coast to do ourprograms and our camps and
we're still coming in gettingfruit and veg from the farmers
markets and things like that,and recently just started

(28:38):
actually eating poultry from alocal regenerative agriculture
farm, because we realized well,I've only been eating red meat
for the last five years becauseall I've eaten is kangaroo and
deer and goat and eel and fishhere and there, but not much

(28:58):
there, and there's been a coupleof roadkill birds that we've
eaten, but I realized thatthat's not actually from a long
term health perspective.
We need to diversify ourprotein intake and so, yeah,
it's hard for me to swallowbecause my values are really
strong about wild living, butthe reality you have to kind of

(29:20):
swallow it and be like.
Well, right now we're notliving on land where we'll be
able to hunt all the time andraise our own chickens and
things like that.
So, yeah, we're buying meatfrom local regenerative
agriculture and for us that'sthe closest thing we can get
Exactly, that's right.
We would never, ever buy anymeat anywhere near a shopping

(29:42):
center or anything like that,but that's the closest that we
can get to creating that rightnow.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
And it's well.
For me, it's like you know, ifyou look at hunter gatherer
cultures that have livedthroughout the past and still
exist today, you find that thecultures that had the most
diversity in their diets are theones that were the healthiest
and, you know, had the bestphysiques and the best teeth and

(30:11):
all that sort of stuff.
I think it's a disservice toyour own personal health to
exclude certain things out ofyour diet.
This day and age, we're notliving in like the same
conditions that allow us to befull blown hunter gatherers.
So you've got to, you know, dothe best with what's around you

(30:32):
and regenerative agricultureproducts.
Yeah, I think it's a good, agood step.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
It's better than buying it from the shopping
center, but still, while game isstill at the top, I think.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
Just talking quickly on while game.
Go kill duck.
Oh my God, that's just the bestthing.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Pretenderized.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Oh no, we just put it straight in the camp oven on
the fire but it was like themost amazing flavor that it like
was like butter, like so oilyand tasty.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
Yeah, do you know if you can hunt ducks?
Is that something that?

Speaker 1 (31:13):
you just want to put a caveat on this conversation
that the picking up of nativeanimal roadkillers, the
technicality of illegal legality, Absolutely.
You guys can do what you do.
We can do.
Yes, so you can do.
Well, the duck hunting thing isa major topic in the hunting

(31:34):
world at the moment.
But so in Victoria there is aduck season and in New South
Wales there is a duck season forshotgun harvest to ducks over
rice fields.
In New South Wales Mostly thereis some private dams, but so
they're decimating rice fields.
They just they fly in by thetens of thousands and demolish

(31:56):
like 25 or 30 acres a night offreshly planted.
They flood the fields and thenplant the seeds and then as soon
as the seed sprouts, the ducksjust fly in and eat it.
So they have an interesting.
I'm not super well versed on myduck hunting but from what I
understand and some of the boyslistening we shaking their heads

(32:17):
because they just come backfrom a duck hunt and I didn't go
with them.
But the way it works, thefarmers really want you to come.
They.
It's not like deer huntingwhere it's all tied up.
This is a hey, who's coming.
We need help like and and it'syeah, it's good fun.
Apparently I haven't done it,but what are they shooting them

(32:39):
with?
shotguns.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
Wow, that would have to be a really good aim.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
Well, yes, yeah, the boys learned pretty quickly that
it's not as easy as it mightlook and I think four of them
went down for sort of three daysand come back with half a dozen
ducks like seven or eight ducksand that was it for their first
trip.
Just because there's, you know,new for them, for skills and
things.
But there's different ways todo it.

(33:04):
Down in Victoria they do a lotof calling, so they'll squawk
and call the birds in to a setof decoys that they've set up in
front of them.
So again, not not my area ofexpertise, but definitely it's a
thing.
It is highly regulated andlicensed and bag limits and
things are very highly enforced.
Yeah, not a.

(33:27):
It used to be legal in NewSouth Wales on public waters but
they've dropped that a fewyears ago.
Now it's only on private landin New South Wales, a little bit
less regulated than it is inVictoria, but it's really off
for that one.
Now I was going to say when wemet Will the first time you

(33:48):
mentioned you had a bow and youwere looking to.
You know, do some more bowhunting and how's your bow
hunting journey going?

Speaker 3 (33:56):
Yeah, it's been really fun.
I actually started heading outduring the right last year with
a good friend and yeah, we spenta lot of time just observing
and watching deer and you know,getting up half an hour before
first light comes through andjust trying to get into a good

(34:19):
spot where we can observe themand hopefully come across them.
And then after that we had wegot like fully busy with
traveling and running events andall that and I basically hadn't
got back around to getting intoit till, you know, a couple of
weeks ago now.
So yeah, basically it's beensuper fun.

(34:41):
The thing I love about it isit's just another layer of what
I was talking about before, likegoing out into the bush and
seeing all the plants that youknow.
It's just like the next layeron top of it and all those
things seem to complement themlike each other really well.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Have you had any really close encounters or
harvested anything yet?

Speaker 3 (35:05):
Yeah, I've had a couple of close encounters.
No, I haven't harvestedanything yet, but yeah, like
going out when it's still darkto the point where you can't see
like 30, 40 meters away fromyou.
I was basically, yeah, walkingto where I needed to go, to get

(35:26):
to where I was thinking that thedeer were going to go, but
instead they're actually rightin front of me and it was so
dark I couldn't see anything.
And yeah, the first time I hadshoes on, the first time I
started going out recently, Ihad shoes on and I was walking
down the track thinking, man,like I am just making so much

(35:49):
noise, this is ridiculous.
And I bumped the deer when Iwas like 40 meters away and that
was me trying to sneak.
So second time I went out noshoes and I think I must have
been, you know, 10, 20 metersfrom a deer before bumping them.
So that's just like, yeah, it'sclose, yeah, that's close.

(36:11):
That's within shooting range onthe bow for me personally.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
I saw you shooting a target the other day.
It was pretty consistent.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
Yeah, yeah, I'm happy with my groupings at 20 meters.
It's a bit of like.
There's an ethical thing thatcomes in there as well.
You want to be able to shootconsistently within a range that
you're going to hunt at andthen you know if you want to
hunt at a further range.
Then you got to practice to getit basically sort of in this

(36:42):
range because you don't want to.
You basically don't want tomiss the mark, because it's just
going to be a really long, hardslog to try and find the animal
and you're just hoping it'sgoing to be injured enough to
even be able to track down, asI've seen photos of animals with
arrows hanging out of them thatare still like living, like you

(37:03):
know.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
Interesting experience on the weekend just
gone.
We were filming for a TV show onit on my property and friend of
my wife's was the cook, thechef for the week or for the
weekend, and she was a bowhunter or she is, and I'll let
her tell the story at some point.
But we would go so she would dobreakfast and lunch for us and

(37:27):
then, while we were out hunting,she'd go the other way and go
bow hunting.
She actually killed moreanimals than we did on the TV
show.
She had a really misfortunateis that the word unfortunate
situation where she actually,without giving too much of the
story away, shot the animal shewanted to shoot but as the arrow

(37:48):
exited it came out at a 45degree angle, deflecting off a
rib, and then hit a secondanimal that was not behind the
animal she was shooting at andthen ensued a probably an hour
and a half of trying to stalkthat animal in not ideal
situation.
Anyway, she got it done andyeah, it was.

(38:09):
It was very emotional for herand very real for us.
We were sitting on the hillwatching an all through
binoculars with two way radio,telling her what was happening
because she couldn't see theanimal initially.
We could.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
It was.
It was pretty raw to watch thatfrom a distance, but her
ability to follow it through andpush through the emotions to
get it done, to end thatanimal's life that she didn't
really need or mean to woundyeah and she's, like you know,
18 meters is her sweet spot.
She says, yeah, just just sub20.

(38:47):
So, yeah, I get that.
And I mean we don't.
From a rifle hunting point ofview, I feel there's probably
less of a connection with theanimal because we're not so much
in their zone of influence.
You guys are really pushingthat, that boundary, and I do
respect that.
I've done a bit of bothshooting, you know.

(39:08):
So that's a bow hunting.
I'm not.
I don't want to put myself as abow hunting it.
I'll do that when I'm I don'tknow when, when I'm bored from
rifle hunting.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
Yeah but I couldn't agree more with that, like when
you're saying, yeah, with bowhunting and needing to get you
know within 20 meters, like I'vedeveloped like so much more
respect for those animalsbecause you know I still haven't

(39:40):
like harvested an animal fromthe land yet because you have to
keep going out there.
You got to keep getting up andobserving them and you know, so
far, every single time the deersoutsmarted me or being more
skillful than I am.
So like, yeah, I just keepbuilding like this respect for
those animals and how incredibletheir survival instincts are

(40:04):
and they're hearing and theirability to detect movement and
smell.
And oh man, it's incredible andand it's such a rush, even if
you don't like go and get ananimal to be sort of sneaking
through the bushes quietly asyou can, and then suddenly, 10
meters away, you hear a deerlike make an alarm call and then

(40:27):
like run away a little bit andtry and figure out what the hell
is going on.
Like man, it's just like such arush.
And and even like even justsitting in a hide, like if you
sneak out to somewhere where youwant to just go and sit and
wait for a deer to walk past,where you've been seeing them
move through, like with all theother aspects of nature

(40:52):
connection going on.
It's still like a reallybeautiful interactive experience
.
You're still up for seeing thesunrise.
You're going from completesilence out in the bush,
surrounded by nature, tosuddenly one small bird starts
chirping away probably theeastern yellow robin and then
followed by other birds comingin and slowly building up and

(41:15):
then you hear the cookaburras goand then they sort of wake
everyone else up and you knowit's just a beautiful time of
day to be out in nature andconnecting with the land and
still having like a like anobjective like hunting to do.
It's more of a reason to go anddo it because I feel like you

(41:36):
know humans are creatures ofcomfort a little bit and if you
go oh yeah, wake up at you knowfive o'clock and get down into
the bush to listen to birds,like although I enjoy it every
single time and love it likeit's just just doesn't quite do
it for me, like especially if Ihave a late night or something
like.
But you know just yeah.

(42:02):
And it's like it's that feelingthat we've been doing this.
It's in our DNA, like we'vebeen doing this for so long and
it's only just the recenthistory, now that we've started
farming and moved away fromhunting, but it's still, I
believe, like really, reallybeneficial and innate to

(42:24):
everyone, to you know, get outthere and spend that time in
nature.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
As you just said, you haven't had that hands on
killing experience yet.
We connected recently.
You guys put in an order forsome venison and I said yeah, I
can feel that.
So I went and I think you hadan event or something and you
needed some things for.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
And I went and shot three fellow does just at a
local block close to here.
I was only after two and thenthere was two standing side by
side and I thought, well, I'llmake them busy, they won't waste
it.
And you guys turned up the nextday, I think.
Anyway, just the smiles on yourfaces, I think they're still.
Your cheek muscles are stillrecovering and to us, or to us

(43:15):
spending my family and myself,it's quite, it's very common to
have, you know, deer and thingshanging around at home in the
cool room or on the table, andyou guys sort of experienced
that with my kids hanging aroundand they're just very matter of
fact.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
You know we try to introduce them to all that, so
it was nice for them to you know, meet you guys and then see
what you guys can create fromthose.
So what?
What did you need them for andwhat have you done with them?

Speaker 3 (43:42):
Do you want to start, and I'll fill in any gaps, it's
probably a long journey.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Oh, it was incredible , like I just want to say, it's
actually one of my most favoritethings to do to be like
skinning and butchering animal,because it brings my mind so
hyper, focused into the presentand I have a very busy mind.
Not many other things do that,and so it was actually really

(44:07):
awesome.
We did two of them the nextmorning, I think, and then two
of them in one day and then onethe next day, but yeah, so we
got them obviously for becausefor ourselves, for eating and
also for the ancestral skillsgatherings that we run.
We always cater dinner and wealways cater wild game, whether

(44:31):
it's kangaroo or goat or deer.
So we took a whole shoulder ora leg there and we're cutting it
up for making wild jerky with.
Some of the kids there were likehelping me cut that up and put
it on the skewers to put on thedrying rack, and so, to start,

(44:55):
we wanted to try out some stonetools that will had made at
Teresa's course.
So we actually skinned thefirst year with just stone tools
and we butchered the wholething with just stone tools.
And when I say stone tools, I'mtalking about like a little
flake, like.
So that's a tiny little chip,like from a little flake from

(45:20):
one of the flints and how long?
it would have taken.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
So when we say when we say butcher as well, we're
talking about just until, likethe main cuts.
So taking the legs off likeseparating the backstraps.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Yeah, not down into stakes and cuts and things, but
not completely, no, but it tookus, I think, to skin it alone
probably an hour, which is a lotlonger than usual, and then,
because the flint blade wasgetting dull by the end of
butchering, it was.
So it was a tedious process,but we were committed our

(45:58):
stubbornness for like no, we'redoing this whole thing with just
the, just the stone.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Do you remember having fatigue in your hand from
holding such a small blade?

Speaker 2 (46:08):
I didn't have fatigue , but I just had like cuts all
on all over my finger, like fromholding it like that.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
But yeah, skinning the deer, even not yourself.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Well, exactly, but it did require a lot of
concentration because the angleon where, how you have to hold
that, because it, when it'ssharp, it will slice straight
through the meat, slice straightthrough that skin.
So it's so amazing.
But you had to be reallyprecise about the angle, how
you're cutting it and everything.
But towards the end we werekind of just like hacksawing

(46:40):
with a tiny little stone, stoneblade to get the the meat off.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
But something I learned from Teresa.
Just to interrupt and it was todo with.
You guys went on to use theskin, or you still are, and
things.
But every people listeningmight understand this.
I close my eyes while Idescribe it, but when you're
skinning for to use the skinlater on in making clothing,
every tiny, tiny little linethat you put in it with the

(47:08):
knife, oh when you're fleshingit actually opens up and can
tear and makes a weak pointAbsolutely.
She taught me a whole differentway to skin, and that was, she
said leave as much meat on theskin as you can, which?
Goes against everything we doas skinning for taxidermy style
skinning.
But yeah, that was a real eyeopener for me, even the little

(47:30):
cut through the white layer,what it's called, but the tiny
little cut through that, asyou're fleshing it just opens up
the little membrane.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's been something.
That's why we're really keen tostart getting our own deer,
because obviously the last fewyears we've been getting deer
off other hunters and thingslike that, and of course that's
not part of that culture.
Yet you know, like you say, youguys want to get it done

(48:02):
quickly and efficiently, and sothe priorities are different.
But it makes such a differencewhen we're working with the
hides and fleshing them anddegrading them.
When there's not heaps ofdamage, like it just makes a
completely different material atthe end of it.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Yeah, living room, wasn't it?

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Yeah, some of it was at the front.
We hung it up on the meat hooksat the front and then we had
them all curing in the livingroom while we were breaking it
down.
It was great, it was awesome.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
Yeah, and I must say, out of all the hides that we've
gotten from hunters, the onesthat you gave to us with those
deer, oh wait, no, we did that.
Yeah, you were about to give mea couple of it.
Yeah, I was going to say, man,you skinned them so well.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
You did that yourself .
Pat on the back to yourselfWill.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
The kangaroos were pretty good.
You know why.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
So the first course they weren't, because I did them
the 100th way and you guys wereon the second course, so you
got the better batch.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Oh, did Theresa give you a little talk?
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (49:12):
she did.
She gave me a little smack onthe wrist.
That's awesome, but also it wasthe size of kangaroo that she
requested was smaller than whatI provide.
I was like, oh, big ones.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
Surely yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
No, it made life terrible.
Yeah, absolutely, anyway, soyou, got the skin off one with
some traditional tools, and thenyou manned up and used real
tools.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
Yeah, we used our knives for the second one and
the third one.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
Yeah, so basically, essentially from those animals,
we kept the trickier from one ofthem, which is like the wind
pipe for using for things likeholding your bow needles.
It's like it's a good shape fora case, you know.
So that would have been anotheritem used back in the Stone Age

(50:02):
times because of its shape andit's nice and hard.
Obviously, we took all thebrains out to use for brain
tanning.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
That's not obvious at all.
Oh yeah, Well, that'll be asfor you guys.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
Yeah, well, yeah, we found a really good.
Yeah, teresa actually taught usa really good way to get the
brain out, because prior to that, oh my goodness, will and I had
really massacred some skulls.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
All kind of rocks and hammers involved.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
Does it matter if you scramble?

Speaker 1 (50:36):
it.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
No.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
Okay, so I would normally go up through the
spinal cord, scramble it andthen pour it out.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Yeah, we haven't done that yet.
Teresa just soars out with alittle saw a rectangle in the
back of the skull and then justreaches in and grabs it out.
But I'm yet to come in from theother side, which we're keen to
do, so we took that out.
And then obviously we got theheart, kidneys, liver tongue.

(51:08):
Tongue.
We didn't get that.
We left the eyeballs for thisone.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Yeah, we're a little bit busy with stuff.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
What's that?
Didn't need to paint your nails, no no, not this time.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
Not that time.
I love using the tails as myfeather duster at home.
I use the details to get allthe cobwebs and dust the place.
So just drying them out,preserving them.
We got all of the hawks skinoff, so from the shin down,

(51:47):
after we've already butchered itall, broken it down.
Is that the cannon bone?
Yeah, so we peel the skin offthat and that's still in the
freezer because we're gonna makelittle.
It's called like do-claw,little pouches, and it's such a
thing for a lot of the primitiveskills people over in the

(52:08):
States and you just see themmake these beautiful little bags
that are full of the tannedlittle do-claws, like all sewn
together, and it's just reallycool.
It's just amazing.
We kept all of the bones andwe've made, we've made some
holes, you made some hooks.
What else?

(52:28):
Some needles, jewelry.
I've got one of the bones in myear as a spacer, and this is
not from the dev.
This is a.
Is it a fibula or a fibula?
No, I can't remember.
This is what it's either atibia or fibula.
Of One of those two yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Of what's the process .

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Of a gray kangaroo.
Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
Have you processed skins yet?
We're in the process.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
So we have removed the hair, we've removed the
green, and now we just need toneutralize them before we then
start applying the fat solution,before we soften them into
buckskins.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
Yeah, that's pretty exciting.
You threw out terms there thatagain no one else knows what
you're talking about de-grainingand things like that.
And, theresa, from memory therewas no grain on the kangaroo
skins or there was a step thatyou had to change from deer
skins to kangaroo skins.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
Yeah, so with the kangaroo skins the grain layer
is really like securely attachedto the mid-dermal layer, so
it's incredibly difficult tograin them.
So when we did our course withher, she had changed the process
and so we de-haired them, butwe left the grain on and

(53:52):
fat-tanned them.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
So and usually you don't like when you're making
like buckskin.
And don't get confused,listeners, by the name buckskin,
it's just a generic term nowfor a material.
You can make it with any animal, it's just.
The end product is hair andgrain removed, which are the two
like.
The grain is essentially thehair follicle layer that you

(54:15):
have to scrape off.
It's a really tedious process.
It requires a lot of strengthand manpower to get it done
right.
But you really wanna get thatdone right because the better
you do that, the more softer theend product is gonna be.
But with the kangaroo that wasa trip out leaving the grain on,
because usually that's just a.

(54:36):
You don't do that if you wantnice soft, supple buckskin
material.
But that was a really coolthing that Teresa learned.
They're totally different.
The makeup of their skin isjust so different to deer and
goat and reindeer and all thethings that she's tan.
So that was really cool.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
Did it still end up being soft?
Absolutely like so soft, likegoat skin, supple soft.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Yeah, more like, yeah , real softer than goat skin,
Like, absolutely like, yeah,really velvety soft, which was
so surprising considering it hasthe grain layer on, but they're
a lot thinner.
There's the skin.
Well, the ones that we had,anyway for the second course,
the bigger males are probably abit thicker, but the smaller

(55:19):
females were a lot thinner andthat was really nice to work
with.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
Now, what have you done with the meat?
While you're here, I picturesome fresh fennel from just
around the corner as well.
Oh my God.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
And we went home and we cooked up that, because you
sent me through as well like arecipe for and you know, will
and I we're not like gourmeteaters, we're just like great,
give us some deer and a coupleof boiled potatoes, baked
potatoes, whatever, like we'rehappy and some wild greens.
We're not super fancy eaters,but you gave us that recipe and

(55:53):
then the wild fennel and we werelike, okay, let's make a real
fancy dinner.
It did not look anything alikethe one in the photo, but How's
it tasty?
It was absolutely tasty.
Yeah, I think it was the one ofthe back straps that we roasted
with the fennel, just so good.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
And what other things have you created with the meat
You've?

Speaker 2 (56:14):
done, jerky some things.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
Yeah, we've done jerky.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
We've made some burger patties with the meat
mixed with liver.
It's a really great way toconsume it.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
Your favorite dodge.

Speaker 3 (56:27):
Yeah, especially if people don't really particularly
like the texture or taste ofliver, it's a really easy way to
incorporate it into.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
Does it bind the mince like fatwood?

Speaker 2 (56:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
Yeah, a little bit, yeah.
But another thing that, anotherreason that I put them in the
burger patties cause I'm morethan happy to just eat the liver
as it is Weirdo.
But yeah, it's actually morebeneficial for your health to
have small amounts of it moreregularly, because it's so high

(57:01):
in particular, nutrients likevitamin A and copper and things
like that, and you can actuallyget too much of those nutrients.
So why?

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Is your body just rejected, then and pass it out
because you've got too much, oris it an overload?

Speaker 3 (57:16):
I think it's an overload, so it's much better to
.
Yeah, if you've got like aliver and you expand it out
across a whole bunch of burgerpatties, then you just have them
a little bit each time and Ireally do notice a lot more of a
boost of energy in that when Ido get to have it in that way,
Flavor profile too.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
it's probably easier to hide in.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
I can't taste it.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
Absolutely completely .
We could give you.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
I'll give it a try next time.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
And you, yeah, you wouldn't really taste the flavor
, especially when you add herbsand everything as well.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
In your bush camp style living.
Storing 3D area is notpractical, like you, obviously,
using refrigeration and thingsas well, but if you were, you
know, trying to live off theland completely, killing three
animals is not.
Unless you're in a tribe, it'snot a practical thing to do.
So have you done the jerkeysand the smoked meats and things?

Speaker 3 (58:12):
Absolutely yeah, we tend to like not.
So when we do it like in natureand we dehydrate meat, we tend
to like not use lots of smoke,like we don't create smokers and
try and smoke at all becausethe smoke is actually
carcinogenic.
But we do use fire and the firebasically dries the air.

(58:34):
So you have a small fireunderneath the meat, not trying
to create lots of smoke, butjust the heat from the fire
drives out the air and helps todrive the meat.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
And also I've done plenty over the years, plenty of
batches of just sun dried jerky.
It's obviously not as tenderbecause it's not temperature
controlled and all things likethat, but it still does the job
and it preserves it.
And one really amazing, amazing, very old traditional food that

(59:05):
we've been making lately isPemmikin.
Have you heard of Pemmikin?

Speaker 1 (59:09):
I have, and I saw you put up that, so tell us what it
is.
Oh, so it's just normal.
Looks like dusty dirt balls.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
Yes, it does look like that and it doesn't taste
absolutely amazing, but you canmake it taste better.
Like we.
That was pretty good we had.
We just added some extra saltbecause it's so.
It's rendered fat, which werendered from your dear that you
gave us, and jerky that youblend up and put them into a

(59:39):
little ball, like so you'reputting, you're mixing the jerky
in with that tallow.

Speaker 3 (59:45):
It's like a Stone Age Bliss ball, yeah, and it's so
incredible.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
If you want to go deep in the rabbit hole.
I love researching likeanthropological essays on
Pemmikin because it was like themain staple, like ongoing on
long journeys and long ventureswhere there's not an abundance
if they're in like really coldclimates and things like that.
This food lasts for decades.

(01:00:12):
Like Pemmikin, it'sself-preserving, so it will last
you for so long and you can addI think they added like
cranberries and other wildberries and then you've got a
full whole fats, carbs andproteins all right there.
So you're pretty much set.
It will keep you alive.

(01:00:33):
It's obviously you're probablygonna get sick of it if you're
just surviving on that, but wetook some out on our hike that
we went on a few weeks ago andit was just amazing like how
much it sustained us, like theenergy that just there wasn't a
drop in energy.
It just kind of keeps going.
Yeah, I am, so I have so muchawe for that food just because

(01:00:57):
you can make a whole bunch of it.
You don't need a fridge, youcan go for as long as you want
and you're set.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
I was just looking up the history of the word, but is
it saying here, north American?

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Do you know what the word means?
I didn't quite find an answer.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
Probably means dried meat ball with rendered fat.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
It's right in that new past you reckon with the
meatballs, tomato sauce, right?
So we've got.
You've used all the meat.
You've used the fat.
I'm interested to know ifyou've got any other uses for
that.
Was there much fat on them?

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Yes, yeah, we've got a couple of jars at least.
We cook all of our stuff withthe tello.
We cook all of our like.
Anything we're frying, we usetello.
Yep.
And also making tello bombsbecause it's so good, I'm so
good for your skin.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
I was going to say have you gone down the path of
soap?

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
Not yet, but that's next.
We've got a mate who just madesome with lard, but we want to
make it with tello, so that'snext on the.

Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
I've got to make sunscreen with it as well.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Yeah right, I've got a recipe I can send you.
I got it from a mutual friendof ours, but Wild Food Master.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
Oh nice, that's so cool.
He sent it and.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
I looked at him like, oh, probably don't have time
for that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
But yeah, wow.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
I do have the recipe.
So we've got skins, meats, fats, used organs, track, use bone
tendons.
What do we use tendons for?

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
So yeah, so with the deer I catch the back straps in
you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Silver skin.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
Yeah, and the tendons out of that cannon bone as well
, and then a lot of the othertendons we end up like pressure
cooking and breaking it down, soit's actually really great
medicine for you as well.
It's really healthy.
People are selling gelatin andstuff as like food supplements

(01:02:55):
these days and you can just slowcook.
You make it with some tendonsin it and consume it that way as
well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
What are we doing with the back skin, the silver
skin?

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
Yes, so basically I just scraped all any sort of
meat that was left on it offcompletely and then dried it out
, and then you can pull it apartinto strands and with those
strands you can make things likebraided fishing leader lines,
or you can use it as thread forsewing leather Probably lots of

(01:03:27):
other uses too.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Binding your arrow tips.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
Yeah, so yeah, putting stone points on wood for
arrows or spears, you can usethat to tie it on, and it's
really great for those kind ofthings because it self-tightens.
You don't need to do anyparticular knot, you just kind
of throw it underneath itselfand it will tighten and clamp

(01:03:51):
down on it as it dries out.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
From what I understand, it's similar to raw
hide being really constrictiveonce it's dried.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Yeah, right.
So what have you got left?
Is there much left?
You've got meat left.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
We have got meat left .

Speaker 3 (01:04:06):
We have some bone shards left, like some little
splinters, from crushing them up, and I've been using those to
make some toggle and compositehooks basically.
So that basically means a hookthat is essentially like a small
stick with a bone spike tied toit with natural cordage Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
And also.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
No, I've been working on that kit, though, for a
while, and I just need to figureout what species of fish to
target.
I had to go.
I had some gorge hooks made upwith some senior leader lines
and I had to go trying to catchsome potty mullet on them, but
they were so small that theirmouth couldn't actually fit

(01:04:53):
around the gorge hook, so that'sgoing to be a bit of a problem
if you're trying to catch them.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
And that's the thing with a lot of these skills If
we're not getting shown andtaught these things, you kind of
reverse engineering it and ittakes a lot of time to actually
succeed.
But that's part of it for us.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
I was going to say does that make it feel more real
you?

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
feel like you're back , absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
How long ago, working this out for the first time.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:19):
And because from that experience with the gorge hooks
, because when I heard aboutthem originally I was like oh
easy, it's so much more simplethan what's a gorge hook.
It's a flat piece of bone Likethat's quite small, with a
groove in the middle of it soyou can tie your string or
fishing line around or whateveryou have, and you basically rig

(01:05:41):
it up so it's parallel to thefishing line and so you put your
bait on it, like that.
So when the fish swallows itit's swallowing, it Like if
that's the gorge hook, it'sswallowing on that way, and then
when you go to pull it out, itrotates sideways and gets
clogged in its throat or in itsguts.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
That's very size specific, because a small one
would just pull out of a largefish and a large one can't get
consumed Exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:06:11):
Yeah.
So from that little experienceI was like, okay, well, for some
fish you do actually need tomake hooks.
So that's why I've gone andmade some of those composite and
toggle hooks and so now whenthe fish goes to bite it, you
can sort of give it a pull andtry and hook it on, rather than
just waiting for it to hopefullyswallow the entire thing whole.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
So I think the gorge hooks would work a lot better
for more aggressive species offish and you mentioned that you
cooked some of the shoulder foran event you had, and you've
mentioned previously that youare hosting regular events.
What are some of the topicsyou're covering or some of the
events you're hosting?
I know you do stuff with schoolkids and juniors.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
So I'll start with the weekend camps that we do.
We do them at our mates awesomelike rainforest property here
on the Central Coast.
We've been doing them there foralmost four years now and
they're pretty much weekendfamily camps and we focus on
shelter, building fire byfriction, wild foods and

(01:07:21):
medicines, foraging.
They're the main workshops thatwe do there, but we also we've
done like eel trapping there andrandom spontaneous things like
making jerky, making cottage.
So it's it's based around those.
You know, shelter, fire byfriction and foraging, but it's

(01:07:44):
not limited to that.
So the point of that is to getpeople out camping of all ages,
from all different backgroundsand levels of experience.
We get people that have neverbeen camping ever before and
then we get people that are likereally into their bushcraft and
deep into that world and that'sso awesome for us because then
it creates this kind ofenvironment where we're also

(01:08:05):
learning and also creating thatspace for people that aren't
super comfortable in thatenvironment to come and learn
about it.
And the practical skills issomething that we really love
because it brings brings peopleinto their own body then then
they get to make these thingswith their own hands and then

(01:08:25):
leave without confidence.
It's just there's somethingreally, really satisfying about
making, crafting something orwith your own body and using
your own knowledge and the landaround you to then craft
something or make something andthen go home with that knowledge
and a physical thing as well.
So we try and try and base itoff that it's great for the kids

(01:08:48):
.
Like the hands on stuff is justamazing.
We've got people that bringtheir kids that they might say,
oh, like my kids on the spectrumor blah, blah, whatever.
But then you see the kids outin the natural environment and
they're totally sweet, like it'slike we're all designed to be
outdoors, kids especially.
So yeah, we do.

(01:09:09):
We do seasonal camps there.
We have an Earth Skills onecoming up in May which we just
cover the topics like what wesaid, and also it's a fun
culture.
We do like shed cooking on thefire and it's a fun communal
vibe, which is really awesome aswell, just to be outside with a
group of people that you'regetting to know, yeah, learning

(01:09:32):
new things on the communal vibe.

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
Comment at Dan, who I met on the same course.
You guys did, dan Pro.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
Shackle, oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
Oh yeah, so the communal house situation that is
built and creating, yeah,follow open living or something
it's called.
I've been following that onInstagram, facebook.
That's a crazy concept in it.
Interestingly, good way.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I haven't.
I haven't been up to date withwhat's been happening with it
lately.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
The house is finished .
They're living in it.
They've got two other peoplethat have joined them in the
community, because it's not thattype of thing, but it's yeah
it's incredible, interesting wayto do things in this current,
current lifestyle that wenormally live in.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
Yeah, sort of a trend and going differently.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
you said you mentioned about creating a safe
space for people to feel, touchand have emotions, and I know
off air we spoke about killing alive animal and how that
impacts people and I know thatforms part of one of your
courses.
How have you found that to beenreceived in front of these?

(01:10:44):
People aren't used to that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
So it's actually.
It's actually been so beautifulto bring that element in.
We've done it three or fourtimes now over the years with a
couple of roosters and a goat aswell that I dispatched at our
last family camp.
So that's about.

(01:11:07):
Oh, there's about 50 peoplethere, like all together, and
half of them are children andsome of them have been exposed
to like Live growing up on farmsand things like that.
But a lot of these kids comefrom the city.
So we always like check in,obviously with the family and
say, look, this opportunity hascome up and we would really like

(01:11:29):
to do this in a, in a groupsetting, and everyone's usually
always okay with it and thepeople that aren't comfortable
with it we go somewhere private,so it's not in the main area.
We go somewhere private to makesure that everyone feels
comfortable and Really createlike this space.
It's a space of like reverencethat we're about to take this

(01:11:51):
life and if you want to come andwitness that something as real
and raw as that, then pleasecome and hold your respect
whilst that's happening.
And you know we've had youngboys in the past be like, yeah,
let's kill it, let's kill therooster, and that's also so part
of kind of guiding them intothat's, that's not the kind of

(01:12:14):
vibe that we're going for.
And then when we're actuallymaking the cut because that's
how I do it, I cut their throatsthose boys change and there's
like the potency of that momentwhen you're witnessing something
die.
It's actually.
It's something that, yeah, Idid not take lightly at all and

(01:12:37):
we we welcome and invite likeall kinds of emotions.
Some kids get upset, some, somekids are like you, like gross
blood, and Our job is to kind ofhold that and allow them to
feel safe to express all ofthose things.
And then we talk about it andit's something that we're
disgusting, discussing for therest of the camp and talking

(01:12:57):
about how everyone felt.
But, honestly, the feedbackthat we've got from some of the
parents and how much they werelike to see the death of an
animal in a beautiful, lovingway.
And I think that some peoplewhen they think about killing
animals, they don't think aboutit as a beautiful, loving way,
because it's not alwaysbeautiful loving, but it so can
be.

(01:13:17):
And I think that's that's a bigpart of my Passion in that
world is creating that space toshow people that we have been
doing this forever and it is.
It is a difficult thing, butit's also just a part of the
cycle of life and if you do thatwith respect and educate people
, it's really quite incredible,like I think we would agree at

(01:13:40):
all the camps that we've donethat it's just been this
beautiful communal thing andthen we're all eating this,
restore the goach like, and yeah, it's, it's just so beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:13:52):
Because, like as well I think you know pretty much,
everyone who comes to the campsalready eats me anyway most of
them and, yeah, most of them doand I think it's the same with
like everyone else in the world.
Most people Eat meat, butthey're not necessarily exposed
to these sort of experiences,but nonetheless, these things

(01:14:14):
are happening without us beinginvolved in it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:16):
Letting someone else do the killing for them?

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
Yes, yeah, and sort of shying away from it.
And I think it's a reallyimportant part of it because you
know you have a certain, likeyou know, gratitude for your
food.
If you've seen an animal that'sbeen alive and and then to know
that that animal has beenkilled so that you can eat and

(01:14:39):
that's what is involved withlike a lot of the meals that you
eat it just changes yourperspective on life a little bit
, like I reckon it's like, yeah,you just have a lot more
gratitude for the fact thatthings need to die for you to be

(01:15:00):
alive in one day, that you'regonna die as well and go back to
the land and, you know, bebroken down by all the different
bugs and insects, and thengoing to the mycelium and the
trees and the plants, and yeah,it's just, it's just incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
It comes back to you spreading the seeds of the fruit
you're eating and then goesaround in a cycle.
I think I spoke when I spokeearlier about being removed from
the animals zone of influence.
From a rifle hunting point ofview, I feel that the hands on
cutting throat is the equivalentof the bow hunting verse rifle

(01:15:38):
situation like I've harvested,shot, killed hundreds of animals
, but and I've forgotten some ofthem or most of them
specifically, but the ones thatI've put down, and I'll clarify
that, as you know, whether it bea pet or a farm animal or
something, but a point blankdealing with whether it be cut

(01:16:03):
throat, bullet to the head, andwhether that be for food
consumption or for old age orfor sickness, they're different
and they carry a whole notherlevel of emotion and I think
that I also think that peopledon't understand it and, because

(01:16:24):
we don't articulate it, thatthey think we love killing and
and that they put the two in thesame category.
But you know, harvesting ananimal hands on for meat
consumption or to put it out ofpain, is very different to
hunting something that has noidea.
You're there and to do it yetto the animal doesn't make a
difference.
They're still dying.

(01:16:45):
But you know, they know they'rein the something's about to
happen because you're holdingthem.
They're in the paddock eatinggrass.
So we can't deny that they havedifferent reactions to it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
When you first started hunting dodge was was
the kill like more emotional foryou than than it is now?
Or?

Speaker 1 (01:17:08):
I'd say it's more emotional now than it was then.
Okay why I'm a little moremature now and I've spoken about
this before the sort of youknow stages to becoming a hunter
and the first one that Istarted, if it was just being a
shooter and you go through thestage through there.
If it's brown, it's down likeonce.

(01:17:30):
You sort of start shootingthings like this is cool and
from a Success point of view, oh, you know, you successfully
shot 20 rabbits tonight or twofoxes or whatever you're chasing
, but not from a.
I wasn't in the food side ofthings early on, I was, you know
.
That came later on.
I definitely shot things andleft them and wasted them and

(01:17:52):
and you know, along the way I'mlike, oh, hold on, this is
actually a resource here thatI'm wasting and learning and
it's developing and still going.
And now that's about all we buyfrom the shop.
The wife buys chicken when it'son sale because everything else
we supply we, you know, yeah, Iswap meat for fish normally

(01:18:13):
with friends, but other thanthat, you know, we supply only
am in venison and beef ifsomeone's doing a home kill.
So I now have a more honestconnection to what I'm
harvesting if that makes senseand I think it changed my wife
when we had kids and I thinkit's silly for me to say that it
didn't, because it definitelydid.

(01:18:34):
But once you have offspring andchildren, you appreciate what
it takes to create something.
I don't think you guys don'thave kids yet and things like
that and you've definitely got adifferent appreciation and
level of things than I do.
But for my personal journey,once I had children, it's weird
to put that onto animals, butyou understand what happened to

(01:18:58):
create something to then be ableto take something away and that
meant something to someone orto something.
Yeah, so I'm at that stage.
It's not, as I'm still quitenumb to some aspects of it.
The blood and the guts and goredoesn't know no impact.

(01:19:19):
Yeah.
However, the impact andunderstanding of what we're
doing and the conservation sideof killing as far as okay, well,
we need to kill some, but wedon't need to kill everything is
growing and I'm developing thata little bit more.
Good question, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:38):
Do you think there's more people in like the hunting
community that you're involvedin that?
Do you have that approach orI'm just trying to cause?
I'm so not in that world.
Is the mentality what is thementality is like?
Is there more?
Is there hunters that arereally, yeah, wanting to hunt
ethically and use everything, oris it mostly like, okay, let's

(01:20:01):
just kill for fun, or food.

Speaker 1 (01:20:04):
I think there's been a large push in the last five or
six years for consumption andnearly to a, I want to say,
annoying or negative point and Iwas only talking about this to
someone the other day.
Normally, normally years ago,you would put a photo up on
Facebook of an animal you'd shotand everyone say nice, buck,

(01:20:26):
nice.
And the comments are shiftingnow and the first comment I
screenshot of this and sent itto the other day was nice, eater
, or that looks yum, or sopeople are shifting towards that
as the okay, you've shot it now, but you're gonna eat it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:43):
Yeah, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:20:45):
So I've definitely seen that as a public shift and
I think with the push of and wesee it with trophy photos I mean
trophy hunter of some.
I've got a lot of dead animalsthat I like to shoot for antlers
and things, but your trophyphoto is normally you standing
behind the animal, proudlyshowing off with a smile, and

(01:21:06):
that's in a photo situationthat's misread by people who
don't understand the situation.
But there's been a real pushlately for the photo.
Well, not even a push, it'sprobably more of a subconscious
thing, but the photos arechanging and what we see online
of a and I actually take thisnow and I'll put this photo up.
I just took it the other day,but it's the opposite.

(01:21:27):
So the hunter's actuallylooking down at the animal and
you're behind them over theirshoulder and the hunter's in
focus, but the animal's blurry.
It's just the photo I preferand it's like, hey, I've shot
something, but it's a respectfulphoto.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
it's not about the trophy, and I think the emotions
are flipping.

Speaker 1 (01:21:47):
And or maybe they're not flipping.
They've always been there, butthey're definitely becoming more
mainstream.

Speaker 2 (01:21:54):
That's really great because I feel like it's such an
amazing resource, especiallyhere, like in Australia, with,
even with conservation, huntinglike it's.
If you didn't have the skills,yeah, why would you not go and
get your own food, like if youknew how to like?
It just makes so much sense.

Speaker 1 (01:22:16):
It's made trickier by the fact we can't sell it Like
you know I've shot those to youguys and I gave them to you.
I can't do anything.
So on my local property hereI've got more deer than I can
consume.
Yeah, but what do I do?
My freezes are full right now.
I could have shot one the otherweek, but I got nowhere to put
it, so I didn't.

(01:22:36):
But technically I need tobecause there's too many on that
place.
So it's like and I don't alwayshave people that want to turn
up the next day and grab it- soI'll let you know next time, but
.

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
It's absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:22:51):
It's yeah I think you know finding guys like you that
maybe don't have the huntingaccess or skills but then want
to use it more than we can.
And you mentioned to hunterswant to use the whole animal.
I would say I use the wholeanimal but to me that's four
legs and the back straps.
You know you guys using thewhole animal is, you know

(01:23:14):
trackies to make pencil cups,but yeah.
You know it's a different.
I can just imagine your kid atschool sitting in there with the
little cup and their pens orthe quills.
My kids don't use pens, they usequills.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
With charcoal and I liquid.

Speaker 3 (01:23:34):
That's right.
I think it's really interestingtalking about like hunting
animals for consumption as well,because when my first sort of
was getting into the idea of it,I didn't even consider that
you'd hunt them for anythingelse.
Like I didn't understand thatat all.
So and then, like I wasthinking, oh yeah, like if

(01:23:54):
you're hunting, you'd prefer,like you know, animals that
aren't super old, like maybelike one or two years old would
be ideal.
So you go and like sparkles andstuff like that.
And then when I started sort ofbeing more exposed to the
hunting world and you know,following some of the bow
hunters and that on Instagramand social medias and they got

(01:24:17):
all these photos of all theselike deer with crazy antlers and
all that stuff, and I wasthinking, like man, like I mean
it's going to be a lot of foodand that, but like wouldn't you
prefer the smaller one with themore tender meat and just the
sparkles?
But then realizing, like youknow, that's not, that's not

(01:24:37):
like the goal for some peoplewhich is fine as well.

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
And I say that with what I do.
That meat is a byproduct.
It's not my goal with thetrophy side of it, and this
current like from Christmas tonow is the peak period to
harvest deer, cause they've gotthe most fat on them.
Beyond that and I think a lotof people, when they say they

(01:25:01):
don't like eating venison, isbecause they've been given some
meat or cooked some meat thatwas a buck or like someone shot
it and then during the huntingseason or the breeding season
which is just about to happen, Isuppose and it's been poorly
handled and it's an older animalso it's innately tougher,

(01:25:25):
chewier, and if it's poorlyhandled then it will have scents
and things attached to it thataren't amazing.
But I challenge everyone to eatbuck meat that's been handled
properly because I can.
I can handle it and cook it ina way you wouldn't even notice.
You just think it was a midyear dough.

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
Absolutely Just slow cook it right Like.

Speaker 1 (01:25:46):
Yeah, well no, but even the handling you know if
it's a buck that I mean theypiss on themselves.
Yeah, yum no, so no.

Speaker 3 (01:25:55):
So yeah, tell me about how you handle.

Speaker 1 (01:25:59):
Some people are into that.
They're a bloody buck.
So I use two knives.
So I use one for you know,cutting skin, and then, once
I've cut through the skin, thatknife goes away and stays away
so you're not crosscontaminating that flavor and
scent through unto the meat side.
So once I've done my main skincuts, that knife's gone.

(01:26:20):
Or you wash it, rinse it,whatever if you've got access,
but it just goes away.
And then I pull out a differentone and then you do all the
skinning with a separate knifeand then I have a butchery knife
.
So I sort of remove thosechances of cross contamination.
Something I learned not thatlong ago, if someone corrected
me, was I used to hang thingsand, just because I was lazy,

(01:26:42):
still had the feet on it and soI would skin it, but I didn't.
You never skin out the cannonbone part and leave the hoof on.
And they said why'd you do that?
I said, well, it was justconvenient at the time.
And he said but the feet arethe highest carriers of bacteria
on the external part of theanimal because they're always in
the mud, they're in the ground.
So he said you've just hung itupside down, albeit in a cold

(01:27:05):
area, so where does bacteria go?
It grows and it's going to comedown.
So not something I'd considered.
And now I remove the hocks allthe time.
But I think poor handling ofmeat will lead to a poor
experience on the eating sideand, like I said, I'll challenge

(01:27:25):
you to a cook off of a younggoat person, old goat.

Speaker 2 (01:27:30):
And.

Speaker 1 (01:27:31):
I can pretty much say I can remove that smell and
flavor from the meat Because Idon't think the meat itself
carries the scent and a mixtureof it is also.
It's on your hands.
So you've got to be carefulabout gloves and things or just
washing hands, but it's also inyour mind.
If you've just killed a fox andI've had this experience and

(01:27:52):
then ate it, it tasted like whatwe smelled when we shot it.
Or when we skin it, becauseit's in our mind, we have that
memory.

Speaker 2 (01:28:04):
That's a really great point to make, like it's more
about the psychology that you gointo it with and also education
, like just knowing how to makeit taste good.

Speaker 1 (01:28:16):
Like you're saying, you have to come and do one of
the education courses we run.

Speaker 2 (01:28:19):
Yeah, we definitely.

Speaker 1 (01:28:21):
I've got a spot for you both and you'll have more
opportunity bow hunting goatsthan you will deer, that's for
sure.
You talk about bumping deer andthey run.
If you bump a goat they run,but they just run over there.
They don't run three ridgesaway.

Speaker 3 (01:28:40):
And with deer.
What I've been told anyway isif you bump them, just leave
them, Because then they'll breaktheir patterns up.
So if you sort of startle thema little bit, just wait till
next time before you haveanother go.

Speaker 1 (01:28:57):
Yeah, they'll come back that evening to the same
spot.
Or if it's hot, they need tocome to water, so that doesn't
really matter too much.
But if you're on a game trailthat they're using regularly and
you bump them if it's a hot dayyour scent will dissipate quite
quickly and they'll be backthat afternoon.

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:16):
If you've shot one there or to be different, they
might go around it.
But yeah, definitely if you're.
Unless you can see them, thenyou keep hunting them and keep
pushing them.

Speaker 3 (01:29:28):
I wanted to ask you some questions about imitating
like deer, doe calls and stufflike that, and how you
incorporate that into yourhunting.

Speaker 1 (01:29:38):
Yeah, I'm looking around because I've got some
gadgets Bear with me for a run.
So this here is called aFlexmark Samba Stalker and it's
a little mouthpiece reed.

Speaker 2 (01:29:54):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:29:55):
And I'll just give you a little so that
specifically for Samba, but itworks for Fallow and it just it
gains their interest enough tousually well, sorry, my
experience has been that thefemales turn up less so than

(01:30:19):
males, but that's something youcan use just to in that
situation.
If you're close and maybethey're feeling a bit nervous,
you might be able to desensitizethem with a little and imitate
a young fawn that might be indistress and the others are like
, oh, hold on, that's notsomething to be scared about.

(01:30:40):
We need to investigate and theymay come looking.
But it also gives theopportunity.
If you spook them and they runand you go, they might go.
Hold on, what did I run from?
Is it just enough for them togive a split second of release
arrow and take that shot?

Speaker 3 (01:30:59):
Could you use that in the same way, like if you're
sitting in a hide waiting for adeer to walk past, and they're
walking past, but they don'tstop?
Can you actually stop them intheir tracks easier?

Speaker 1 (01:31:09):
Yeah, and if you're bow hunting you need to think
about your shot placement andyou need to time the call
Because if you do it at thewrong time they'll stop but
they'll have their arm back,closing off their vitals, and
like where you want to shoot isusually behind that shoulder.
So you sort of time it whenthey're just about to take a

(01:31:30):
step and they'll take a laststep and open their rib cage up
and then usually stop and lookat what the noise was but be
ready because they're looking.
So if there's a two person setup, sometimes it works where the
person over here calls andpulls them up and they look at
them whilst you shoot from aseparate area.
So you sit like five or 10meters apart.

(01:31:51):
In that situation I'm justgoing to lean over here because
I've got two other calls in here.
I'm back.
So this one is for chitl deeror access deer.

Speaker 2 (01:32:08):
Oh, that's so beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:32:11):
Let me see if I can.
It's a terrible high pitchscream, but it's a, so it
imitates the males.
Again, it's a reed caller.

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:32:25):
Easy access from the states.
And then now I'm going toreally stand up, because it's up
the other side of the room thisone talking about using whole
animal was made by a friend ofmine, dr Yannick, and it's a
buffalo horn with a reed callerin it and it's the fellow buck

(01:32:47):
caller, and I apologize for thevolume, but Ha, ha, ha, ha ha ha
, and I'm using my hand to sortof close down, close this down,
down and also change directionof ha ha ha so that is

(01:33:08):
incredible Specific time of yearfor that and that's coming up,
and if you did that now you maygain the interest of a spiker.
Being early season, but Ihaven't had one call back this
early and you can have differentresponses.
Some young ones will call backand some old ones will go.
That sounds different.

(01:33:29):
I'll go and investigate, butsilently, yeah, and they'll just
turn up right in front of you.
Sometimes they'll battle backand call back.

Speaker 3 (01:33:40):
Another question I had was when I was going out
during the rut, there was quitelarge numbers of deer all
hanging out together, whereasnow I'm only finding, like you
know, groups of one to threeFemales, and all females with
young ones.

Speaker 1 (01:34:02):
That's a good thing, because the rut's about to
happen and the boys will turn up.
Yeah, right.
So where do the boys go?
Well, they just live on adifferent property or a
different second, usually higherup.
So this time of year the boysare generally browsing on you
know sticky woody type plantsthat are higher up, whereas the

(01:34:22):
girls are down lower eating thegrasses and the Lush.
Yeah, correct.
So at the moment the boysprobably not.
At the moment, as of a week agoor so, the boys were in bachelor
groups, fellow specific andthen they're starting to peel
off and hate each other, right,and what they'll start to do is

(01:34:47):
move around and start to locatethe females and try to pick up
which ones are in early estrus,and just locate them and then
stay around them, but not tooclose.
But as the rut or the breedingseason cycle starts to happen,
they'll move in, and sometimesit's a younger one.
First we'll start to herd themtogether, and then an older one,

(01:35:08):
more mature one, will kick thatone out and take over the herd.
But it's not uncommon inheavily pressured areas to have
smaller numbers threes and foursand then sometimes during the
rut, he will bring severalgroups of three and four
together and hold them in a bitof a harem.
Well, they still eat and dotheir thing, but he hangs around

(01:35:30):
and eats and does his stuff allthe other ones and breeds as
they all cycle through theirestrus.
There's a couple of differenttypes of properties and I've
been on all of them and some ofthem are good and some of them
suck.
But the one I've got locallyhere it's big enough to hold all
the females in this area andthen the males come in during

(01:35:52):
the rut.
So I don't see any males thereuntil now.
I've just started seeing someturn up.
And then I've been to otherproperties where I was there in
Christmas time and there's buckseverywhere and the occasional
female and come rut there wasnothing.
They all went next door becausethat's where the girls were,
and then other blocks have allthe males and then they evacuate

(01:36:15):
.
Sorry, I already said that Someblocks have nothing and then
everything turns up during therut.
It just depends on where youare in the valley system and
what feed you've got at whattime of year.
So don't be disheartened ifthere's any females now, because
the boys will turn up soon.

Speaker 3 (01:36:34):
Yep, and then after the rut finishes, then they go
back to the bachelor groups.

Speaker 1 (01:36:40):
Yeah, they'll still hang around for a while.
I would say in my experiencedown here it's been probably
June or July when they reallystart to peel off and go back to
being solo, and then they'llhold their antlers still until
September, late August,september, early October,
sometimes depending on weather,and then that's yeah, they just

(01:37:03):
hang out by themselves.
Beyond that, I liken it to Iwas using the analogy the other
day schoolies.
So at the moment we're in HSEtime, so they're all focused,
they're hanging out, their mates, they're studying, they're
eating, they're fattening up andthey're doing something which
is just preparing for what'sabout to happen.
But then schoolies happens.

(01:37:26):
They all hate each other,they'll get in a brawl at the
pub, they're all chasing overone girl and they have this, you
know, two or three weeks ofcraziness and all things
happening.
They just they don't eat, theydon't sleep, they just want to
play, and then after that theyleave, the girls, go home and
they're all back to being matesagain.
Yeah, so I can.

Speaker 2 (01:37:47):
That's so funny.

Speaker 1 (01:37:49):
It's a terrible, terrible analogy, but so.

Speaker 2 (01:37:54):
After a true degree.

Speaker 1 (01:37:55):
On your courses.
You've got an exciting one atthe end of this year.
Who are you hosting?

Speaker 2 (01:38:02):
Teresa Camp, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:38:06):
So, we're.

Speaker 2 (01:38:07):
We're so excited about that.
She's coming back to Australiaand she's doing three two down
in Victoria and then one on thecentral coast up at our place.

Speaker 1 (01:38:18):
And slightly different piercings I saw in the
notes.
Yeah, oh yeah, they are.

Speaker 2 (01:38:23):
Yeah, we're doing.
We have asked her if we can dodear and they're going to do
kangaroo again.

Speaker 3 (01:38:32):
Yeah, for us it just makes more sense in terms of,
like, you know, anyone, as longas they've got permission from
private property owners, can goout and hunt deer without too
much trouble and be able to goand, you know, practice these
skills and integrate them intotheir lives pretty easily,
whereas kangaroo is a little bittougher.

(01:38:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:38:56):
Just a bit Again from a legality point of view, just
for those listening that may notknow if some of your listeners
are listening, but harvestingkangaroo with a bow and arrow is
not legal.
Yeah, so it's firearms only.
And I find that a lot of peoplein your guys skill set, when
they pick up this hunting,they're picking up the primitive
skills, whether it be long bow,traditional bow, compound.

(01:39:17):
So, yes, it's everything elsenon native is fine.
So you know foxes, rabbits,deer goats, things like that.
But yeah, stick away from thekangaroos, from the hunt outside
of things.
So yeah, that's exciting, yeah,that's exciting.

Speaker 2 (01:39:35):
So it's a week of we're doing, yeah, the
butchering and using the wholeanimal for a few days and then
making buckskin for a few daysand then making a leather pouch
from the buckskin.
So it's really cool.
She's added the element ofactually sewing and knowing how,
because sewing sewing animalskin is very different to sewing

(01:39:58):
cotton or other fabric, I thinkbehaves very differently.
So it's a whole other skill setin itself.
So we're so keen.

Speaker 1 (01:40:05):
And where do people go to find out about these
courses?

Speaker 2 (01:40:08):
Um, while beingsorg.
That's our website.
There's, yeah, all of ourupcoming courses for the next
few months.
Are there where yet to do thefull?
Um end of the year courses yet,but Teresa's one is up there,
um, so, yeah, they can sign upto our mailing lists, which we
just send out like monthlynewsletters of what's going on,

(01:40:29):
or follow us on social mediawe're pretty active on them.

Speaker 3 (01:40:32):
The events page has like a lot of our events off at
the moment.
Um, we've got like a women'sgathering coming up and men's
gathering, uh, the skillsgathering, and then the home
school thing that we've beendoing as well, which has been
really great, that's cool.

Speaker 1 (01:40:48):
Well, congratulations on everything you achieved and
look forward to continuing ourfriendship and relationship and
seeing if we can't provide youwith some more meat and
hopefully I won't need to causewe'll be sniping everything away
soon.

Speaker 2 (01:41:00):
Well, we'll always receive more meat.
It's going, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:41:05):
Thanks for being here .
I hope everyone's enjoyed it.
I've definitely learned a lotand I appreciate the skill set
you guys are bringing and hopingthat a few hunters can take
home some notes and maybe, youknow, leave, leave a few more
things at home instead of out inthe bush.

Speaker 2 (01:41:18):
Yeah, for sure, thanks so much for having us.
It's really great to, yeah,connect in with, with a hunter
like yourself and kind ofcrossover and learn from each
other.
I think it's a really coolcollaboration.

Speaker 1 (01:41:29):
Likewise Thanks to everyone and till next time.
Good night.

Speaker 2 (01:41:33):
Cool Thanks Dutch.

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