January 31, 2024 • 31 mins
Like so many musicians of a certain generation, our guests started playing guitar in large part because of the Beatles. Today, Laurence Juber, Mimi Fox, and Tim Sparks each take a different approach to arranging, adapting, reharmonizing, and reimagining these tunes. Tune in for a lively roundtable discussion, chock-full of inspiring musical examples, all about playing the music of the Beatles on acoustic guitar.
Additional resources:
- Access Part 2 of this episode on Patreon.
- Visit Laurence Juber's website. Watch his Acoustic Guitar Sessions performance and pick up a copy of DADGAD Guitar Essentials to take an in-depth lesson with the fingerstyle master.
- Visit Mimi Fox's website. Watch her perform “Blackbird” for Acoustic Guitar Sessions.
- Visit Tim Spark's website. Learn how he arranged composer John Zorn’s avant-jazz project Masada for acoustic guitar.
This episode is hosted by Nick Grizzle and Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers, produced by Tanya Gonzalez, and directed and edited by Joey Lusterman. Executive producers are Lyzy Lusterman and Stephanie Campos Dal Broi.
The Acoustic Guitar Podcast is produced by the team at Acoustic Guitar magazine, including:
- Publisher: Lyzy Lusterman
- Editorial Director: Adam Perlmutter
- Managing Editor: Kevin Owens
- Creative Director: Joey Lusterman
- Digital Content Director: Stephanie Campos Dal Broi
- Digital Content Manager: Nick Grizzle
- Marketing Services Manager: Tanya Gonzalez
Special thanks to our listeners who support the show on Patreon.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nick Grizzle (00:11):
Welcome to the Acoustic Guitar Podcast.
I'm your host, Nick Grizzle,joined for this episode by
co-host Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers,and today we've got Beatlemania,
with a lively roundtablediscussion chock full of
inspiring musical examples, allabout arranging and performing
the music of the Beatles onacoustic guitar.
Like so many musicians of acertain generation, our guests
(00:34):
started playing guitar in largepart because of the Beatles.
Laurence Juber has been playingBeatles tunes for 60 years and
seriously arranging them forfinger style guitar since the
mid-1990s, after playingalongside Paul McCartney as a
member of Wings.
Guitarist, composer, andprofessor of jazz studies Mimi
Fox taught herself to playguitar at 10 years old when her
(00:56):
cousin gifted her a copy ofRubber Soul.
Though perhaps best known forhis klezmer, folk, and jazz
playing, Tim Sparks was alsogalvanized by the Beatles in his
youth.
Each of our guests take adifferent approach to arranging,
adapting, reharmonizing andreimagining these tunes.
After you've listened to theirconversation, I encourage you to
check out the links in our shownotes to learn more about them
(01:19):
and hear even more of theirmusic.
You'll also find the link tosupport the Acoustic Guitar
podcast on Patreon, that'spatreon.
com slash acousticguitar plus.
Thanks for listening andchipping in if you can.
Now I'll kick things over toMimi Fox, who tells us about the
first Beatles song she learned.
Mimi Fox (01:36):
You know it's still in my brain.
I could play it two ways.
It would be.
"I've just seen a face, whichis the first song from the
Rubber Soul album.
It's still in my brain.
I've just seen a face.
I can't forget the time orplace where we just met.
Still in my brain, Exactly 50plus years later.
(02:06):
Still in my brain.
But I learned every song fromthat album.
I remember when I worked out myown arrangement of the intro to
Michelle I came up with and Iwas so excited when I was 10 and
(02:27):
I had worked that out.
You know, that just seemed.
I remember I brought my guitarto school and I play that.
But actually a song that Irecorded on my most recent album
is you know, Laurence wastalking about John's songwriting
because I was so enamored withPaul and I had arranged so many
of his pieces for solo guitar.
But anyway, recently I recordedin my life and you know again,
(02:49):
it's just so, you know, etcetera.
(03:33):
So, yeah, and so to me thatthat's another song from the
album that now I reallyappreciate.
But anyway, yeah for sure, I'vejust seen a face.
It will always be in my brainand that was the second song I
learned.
The first one will makeLaurence and Tim, and hopefully
all of you laugh was by anotherband lesser known from the
(03:58):
British invasion, the animals,who I was also very fond of when
I was 10.
So, anyway, that that concludesthis portion.
Tim, what about you?
What was your first one?
Tim Sparks (04:10):
Well me I don't know .
I enjoyed hearing all the Beatles tunes from the
early 60s but then, you know, Iwas also listening to Hendrix
and I guess the album that whenI was really coming of age that
pressed me the most, withSergeant Pepper's, that album
and in the white album I learnedRocky Raccoon.
(04:32):
That was when I learned to play.
It's more like years later Icame back to the Beatles and
what I think about this wholeBeatles thing now is you know,
there's a famous saying by Dante, the Italian Renaissance or
Italian medieval medieval poet,who said that what we call
modern is what we have decidedwhether or not we want to keep,
(04:53):
collectively as a civilization.
And I think what's happened nowis after, after that, those 60
years, the Beatles materialstands up and it's kind of being
appreciated in a differentlight.
Because actually, you know, inthe period right after the
Beatles, in the 70s, 80s, youknow people heard so much.
(05:14):
Beatles are just kind of tiredof it, you know.
I mean, and when you heardBeatles bands they were just
trying to dress up like theBeatles and sound exactly like
them.
But now there's a veryinteresting universe of people
who are doing interpretations.
It's very rich kind of quality,I think.
Laurence Juber (05:33):
The dressing up thing we call boots and suits.
It's interesting because Mimidid her arrangement of In my
Life in the original key in A,but you've done it up the octave
.
When I went to arrange it andthis was in the 80s when it was
(05:57):
very close to John's death and Ididn't think about doing it up
the octave, I just it just feltdark and I ended up doing it,
doing it in D and just placement, where you put the arrangement
(06:23):
on the guitar makes a bigdifference to how it speaks.
My choice is do I go to theoriginal key?
Do I find a place to put it onguitar that is guitaristically
satisfying?
Because that's a reallyimportant criteria for me.
Mimi Fox (06:40):
Yeah, I mean for guitarists.
Obviously for solo guitar it'sa different world and obviously
A and D give us the opportunityof using open strings.
It's their familiar tonalities.
I also play Blackbird in theoriginal key because it just
feels right and maybe somewherein my musical memory you know,
(07:03):
tim, you were talking about howthe Beatles were really
emblematic of the era that wewere all living through,
everything that we were goingthrough, and so somewhere it's
sort of like in a musical memory.
It's stored in there in acertain way.
So I learned the originalarrangement of Blackbird.
But then when I went to do myown, I put in a little plug for
(07:28):
Acoustic Guitar Magazine.
I actually did a session onBlackbird and you can find it
online.
It was a lot of fun to play itand teach it.
But anyway, yeah, there'ssomething nice about the
original keys and there'ssomething nice about exploring
the different keys.
It's all what we feel.
Laurence Juber (07:47):
Yeah, I found that I couldn't work the melody
into the Blackbird accompanimentbecause the accompaniment is so
self-sufficient.
Mimi Fox (07:57):
Wait til you hear my weird- ass version.
Laurence Juber (07:59):
I've done is I do it DADGAD in the key of A,
and then it all works out thatway.
Tim Sparks (08:08):
Nice I do it in Drop D.
And going to Mimi's commentabout having the open strings, I
mean that's one of theadvantages of using an alter
tuning of some kind, whetherit's a drop D or a DAG or
whatever is that it does giveyou more flexibility in the
bottom end.
And because Paul's baselinescan be so important in the
(08:33):
texture of this stuff it's likeI saw her standing there in DAG,
DAG and D, because that way Ican get when I go to the five
chord, I have the open string.
If you stick with the originalkey, you don't have that
flexibility.
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (08:49):
I wanted to maybe circle back a little
bit to something that Lawrencesaid a little while ago about
sort of all the layers in thesesongs.
I mean, they not only have thereally strong melodies, they not
only have these genius chordprogressions, but especially
after the very early years, Imean they have so many counter
(09:12):
melodies, instrumentalinterludes on other instruments
they have even like thebaselines are so melodic often.
So I'm wondering, when you setout to do a song like that on
one guitar you've got two handshow do you go about sort of
making an impression of all ofthat, all those different parts
(09:37):
which a lot of times they seemall seem so integral to the
songs?
Tim Sparks (09:42):
Well, I'll jump in there, I'll show you what song I
(10:08):
got .
.
There it is.
So there's a kind of a justtaking the melody of the song
(11:05):
and coloring it in with someinteresting jazz chords that are
different from the original andgive a different insight into
the tune, a different feel.
I particularly like the way thesong in the melody has this E7,
sharp 9.
It's in the melody, so there'san example.
Mimi Fox (11:28):
That's cool.
That makes me think of thisarrangement that I did of
Daytripper on the baritoneguitar.
So I'm going to pull out mybaritone for a sec.
I try to take these pieces andthen think of, because they were
so perfect as they were writtenand we were.
You know, jeffrey, you weretalking about the layers, all of
(11:49):
the different things.
So I try to imply the layersthrough a jazz lens sometimes
and come up with differentthings.
And then I come in now, right,so I've got that.
(12:18):
But then when I come, so I see,and so I'm, I'm keep trying to
(12:48):
keep that infectious groovegoing.
I picked a baritone, which thenis much more similar to a bass,
you know, and then, and then I'mplaying the melody in octaves,
which is a more of a jazztechnique and, I think you know,
kicks it off, and then when Icome to that second part, when
it modulates to A, you know, Igo right into a jazz bass line,
(13:10):
cause for me as a jazz, thisbass line sort of sounds to me
like it could be like all blues,and it's just such an
infectious bass line.
So anyway, so for me it's justsort of all connected, and then
I get the harmonics in there andit's a very guitaristic kind of
(13:37):
thing that you can do.
So I like to use everything theguitar gives me to try to
create that layering and implyit, uh, without having to have a
whole band with me, which iskind of cool, and of course,
having a strong rhythmic driveis very helpful for that.
Laurence Juber (13:56):
So anyway, See, I do it in DADGAD in D, Because
I like to keep the partsconsistently going.
(14:16):
You know whether it's two orsometimes three parts, but I
love the counterpoint and Ithink part of it for me is just
the challenge of making the bassline and the melody work
together.
Nick Grizzle (14:34):
If you had advice for someone making their own
arrangement of a Beatles tune onsolo guitar, what would you say
is something you got to makesure you nail this, or start
with this, or you know whatwould you say.
Tim Sparks (14:47):
I'll jump in here.
Often when people are trying toplay guitar they think of
chords.
They start, say you think C,what you think of putting your
finger on the root of the chordand making the chord.
But a lot of the coolest stuffcomes from starting from the
melody and finding the chord.
Going the other way, going down, and even if you don't know
(15:09):
anything about theory, justexploring the different shapes
and intuitively recognizingthose can be helpful.
I'd like to show you a littleexample.
Recently this is a Lenny Breauarrangement of Hard Days Night,
a sample of it.
You know, lenny had this way ofplaying these shapes, this
(15:51):
tritone kind of combination fora seventh chord like that is A
and then this is D7.
So I took some of that and Idid this arrangement of so
(16:47):
that's full of these chordshapes, that instead of having a
bass of the chord that namesthe note, like here, instead of
C7, I'm making a voicing thathas the seventh in the bass.
Nick Grizzle (17:02):
There's one way to look at it Laurence.
How about you?
What would you say is somethingyou have to really pay
attention to?
Laurence Juber (17:09):
Well, you have to start with the melody,
because without the tune youdon't have a tune.
I mean, it's the melody, evenif you change the articulation
of it.
I think the melody is the placeto start, and I just look to
the melody, I look to the bassline and then I try and find a
(17:30):
place where the voice works.
And it's not always easy withBeatles songs because especially
when you get into the middleperiod, for example with
Strawberry Fields, it's in thecracks.
I mean it's between A and Bflat, because they slowed one
version down and sped up theother one and they met in the
(17:50):
middle, and so when I went toarrange it I just couldn't find
a place that it would fit, untilI realized that DADGAD that
that the E flat major 7 chord,which of course you can't do in
standard tuning in that voicing,and then everything fell into
(18:16):
place.
But there's the intro, there'sthat seventh, actually it's a
ninth voicing over D.
I mean it's a G9 over D.
Tim Sparks (18:38):
And the timbre is nice.
It's like a cello kind of sound, exactly.
Laurence Juber (18:42):
It puts it in and that's really.
I mean, that's pretty close tothe original key.
It's a little higher, but itbrings back.
It resonates in the same way asthe record does, and that's not
always necessary or appropriate, but in this particular case it
(19:03):
was the only way that I couldfind to arrange the song.
That was really true to myexperience of the song and I
tend to favor lower registerstuff.
I just like the voice of theguitar when it's in that kind of
Tim Sparks (19:22):
what I like about your arrangements DADGAD is in
DADGAD they don't sound likeDADGAD.
Laurence Juber (19:29):
Well, thank you, and that's really because I'm
applying my musicalunderstanding to it, that I'm
not just DADGAD as as a dronetuning, I'm just using it as
another standard tuning and justfinding where the notes are and
not being bound by chord shapes.
You know, I create my ownwhatever I need to, or look over
(19:56):
and kind of.
You know oh that's how he doesthat.
Tim Sparks (20:06):
So Segovia said to make a successful solo guitar
arrangement of a piece that camefrom another setting was it
should sound better than theoriginal it was based on.
Nick Grizzle (20:19):
That's tough to do , especially with these tunes,
you know.
Laurence Juber (20:25):
But that's a challenge, is how do you make
the arrangement compelling forthe audience?
Mimi Fox (20:34):
I was going to say to me.
I try to put my own personalstamp on it, honor the beauty of
the melody.
I mean, one thing we haven'ttalked about and it's probably
the best compliment I can getfrom a reviewer critic is if
someone will say that you playlyrically.
And I think about the lyrics tothe tunes and I try to put that
(20:58):
into what I am creating.
So, for example, with she'sLeaving Home, you know.
So again, I'm trying to takethe beauty of the melody and
(21:54):
really be expressive with it andalmost as if I'm singing the
lyrics.
And thank God for everyone thatI'm not actually singing the
lyrics, because what I lackvocally I try to make up for
instrumentally and so.
But then there are times like Iwas thinking about.
And then, jeffrey, this came tocome back to what you were
(22:16):
saying about the layering,because in this case I'm playing
the cello part on the guitarand combining all of the parts
and just trying to make it verymusical.
But honor the lyrics and theintent.
Yeah, sometimes the song just iswhat it is and it doesn't need
(22:37):
to.
In this case it's a little bitof reharmonization as I get
going and I have more of aclassical kind of technique that
I was using on it.
Sometimes I try to reallyreharmonize something and still
keep the lyrics in mind, likeBlackbird, so that I will have
(24:46):
and then the last verse, etc.
So I'm hearing the beauty ofthe melody, but I'm trying.
You know, paul sings it andplays it and it's perfect as
what it is.
But for me, as a composer and aplayer, I try to find, you know
, obviously the harm is veryreharmonized, but the melody is
always there.
To me the melody is sacred.
(25:08):
So that's a whole differentapproach, because there is no
way to take what Paul did, likeI said, it's a perfect picture.
So I'm trying to create anotherpicture using what he wrote as
the jumping off point.
Laurence Juber (25:34):
Yeah, by comparison.
I mean my arrangement ofBlackbird is again, I'm in
(25:59):
DADGAD in the key of A.
My benchmark was actually notPaul's version of it.
I used to play that with KennyRankin and Kenny's voice I mean
it sang like he had a Frenchhorn in his throat.
So and I think it's important,not just the lyric but the tone
(26:21):
of the melody, kind of how themelody sits on the guitar and
how vocal it can be on theguitar Because the voice of the
instrument is so important.
But I also I mean Tim's pointabout simplicity and you don't
(26:45):
have to put a lot in thearrangement if you can keep
things simple.
You know it's such a beautifulmelody.
(27:09):
I chose not to try andreproduce what the Beatles did,
but just did my own approach tothat one.
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (27:15):
We're talking lots about the melody
here and obviously these songshave such strong melodies.
But there's also a lot of songswhere, because they were very
into such big vocal arrangementsyou know choral kind of
arrangements Sometimes it'salmost hard to tell what the
melody is.
I mean, and the impression ofthe original recording is, like
(27:38):
you know, it's multiple voicesand then so I'm wondering in
cases like that, do you ever tryto I don't know somehow suggest
that quality of a bunch ofvoices in harmony on the guitar?
Mimi Fox (27:55):
Yeah, I mean, I did that on the little snippet I
played of she's Leaving Home.
That is actually implying it.
There are parts of it playedout where the melody is on top,
but it's also, you know, it'salso all there.
So if I'm coming up here, sothere's got a counterpoint going
(28:38):
on.
Laurence Juber (28:39):
that's implying different, you know, the
different voices, the actualvocal thing, and yeah, I mean
you can do it like if I neededsomeone, I mean just with block
harmonies too.
(29:00):
Where it gets tricky is whenyou've got counterpoint going on
with this harmony counterpointbut you've also got the melody
as a separate thing.
Tim Sparks (29:12):
One thing about the arrangement.
Now there are tunes that havesuch a signature riff built into
them, like Day Tripper right, Imean, you can't do a solo
version of that tune withoutputting that bass line into it,
you know.
But a lot of songs less is morecan be that can also work
because, like Laurence said, ifyou have the melody and you
(29:35):
really phrase that, you don'thave to have a really busy
arrangement to have somethingthat really works for the
listener.
I recently did an arrangementfor a show of Paul McCartney
tune.
I based it on Sergio Mendes'Brazil 66 arrangement.
Nick Grizzle (30:10):
That's the end of part one.
Tune in to part two to learnmore about this arrangement, our
guest's varied approaches torhythm and groove, and much more
.
The Acoustic Guitar podcast isbrought to you by the team at
Acoustic Guitar Magazine.
I'm your host, nick Grizzle,joined for this episode by
Jeffrey Pepper Rogers.
The Acoustic Guitar podcast isdirected and edited by Joey
(30:30):
Lusterman.
Tanya Gonzalez is our producer.
Executive producers are LyzyLusterman and Stephanie Campos
Dal broi.
Intro music for this episode isperformed by Laurence Juber.
If you enjoy this podcast andwant to support us, please visit
our Patreon page at patreon.
com slash acoustic guitar plusor find the link in the show
notes for this episode.
As a supporter, you'll haveaccess to exclusive bonus
(30:53):
episodes, along with otherspecial perks and if you're
already a patron.
Thank you so much for yoursupport.
Welcome to the Acoustic Guitar Podcast.
I'm your host, Nick Grizzle,joined for this episode by
co-host Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers,and today we've got Beatlemania,
with a lively roundtablediscussion chock full of
inspiring musical examples, allabout arranging and performing
the music of the Beatles onacoustic guitar.
Like so many musicians of acertain generation, our guests
(00:34):
started playing guitar in largepart because of the Beatles.
Laurence Juber has been playingBeatles tunes for 60 years and
seriously arranging them forfinger style guitar since the
mid-1990s, after playingalongside Paul McCartney as a
member of Wings.
Guitarist, composer, andprofessor of jazz studies Mimi
Fox taught herself to playguitar at 10 years old when her
(00:56):
cousin gifted her a copy ofRubber Soul.
Though perhaps best known forhis klezmer, folk, and jazz
playing, Tim Sparks was alsogalvanized by the Beatles in his
youth.
Each of our guests take adifferent approach to arranging,
adapting, reharmonizing andreimagining these tunes.
After you've listened to theirconversation, I encourage you to
check out the links in our shownotes to learn more about them
(01:19):
and hear even more of theirmusic.
You'll also find the link tosupport the Acoustic Guitar
podcast on Patreon, that'spatreon.
com slash acousticguitar plus.
Thanks for listening andchipping in if you can.
Now I'll kick things over toMimi Fox, who tells us about the
first Beatles song she learned.
Mimi Fox (01:36):
You know it's still in my brain.
I could play it two ways.
It would be.
"I've just seen a face, whichis the first song from the
Rubber Soul album.
It's still in my brain.
I've just seen a face.
I can't forget the time orplace where we just met.
Still in my brain, Exactly 50plus years later.
(02:06):
Still in my brain.
But I learned every song fromthat album.
I remember when I worked out myown arrangement of the intro to
Michelle I came up with and Iwas so excited when I was 10 and
(02:27):
I had worked that out.
You know, that just seemed.
I remember I brought my guitarto school and I play that.
But actually a song that Irecorded on my most recent album
is you know, Laurence wastalking about John's songwriting
because I was so enamored withPaul and I had arranged so many
of his pieces for solo guitar.
But anyway, recently I recordedin my life and you know again,
(02:49):
it's just so, you know, etcetera.
(03:33):
So, yeah, and so to me thatthat's another song from the
album that now I reallyappreciate.
But anyway, yeah for sure, I'vejust seen a face.
It will always be in my brainand that was the second song I
learned.
The first one will makeLaurence and Tim, and hopefully
all of you laugh was by anotherband lesser known from the
(03:58):
British invasion, the animals,who I was also very fond of when
I was 10.
So, anyway, that that concludesthis portion.
Tim, what about you?
What was your first one?
Tim Sparks (04:10):
Well me I don't know .
I enjoyed hearing all the Beatles tunes from the
early 60s but then, you know, Iwas also listening to Hendrix
and I guess the album that whenI was really coming of age that
pressed me the most, withSergeant Pepper's, that album
and in the white album I learnedRocky Raccoon.
(04:32):
That was when I learned to play.
It's more like years later Icame back to the Beatles and
what I think about this wholeBeatles thing now is you know,
there's a famous saying by Dante, the Italian Renaissance or
Italian medieval medieval poet,who said that what we call
modern is what we have decidedwhether or not we want to keep,
(04:53):
collectively as a civilization.
And I think what's happened nowis after, after that, those 60
years, the Beatles materialstands up and it's kind of being
appreciated in a differentlight.
Because actually, you know, inthe period right after the
Beatles, in the 70s, 80s, youknow people heard so much.
(05:14):
Beatles are just kind of tiredof it, you know.
I mean, and when you heardBeatles bands they were just
trying to dress up like theBeatles and sound exactly like
them.
But now there's a veryinteresting universe of people
who are doing interpretations.
It's very rich kind of quality,I think.
Laurence Juber (05:33):
The dressing up thing we call boots and suits.
It's interesting because Mimidid her arrangement of In my
Life in the original key in A,but you've done it up the octave
.
When I went to arrange it andthis was in the 80s when it was
(05:57):
very close to John's death and Ididn't think about doing it up
the octave, I just it just feltdark and I ended up doing it,
doing it in D and just placement, where you put the arrangement
(06:23):
on the guitar makes a bigdifference to how it speaks.
My choice is do I go to theoriginal key?
Do I find a place to put it onguitar that is guitaristically
satisfying?
Because that's a reallyimportant criteria for me.
Mimi Fox (06:40):
Yeah, I mean for guitarists.
Obviously for solo guitar it'sa different world and obviously
A and D give us the opportunityof using open strings.
It's their familiar tonalities.
I also play Blackbird in theoriginal key because it just
feels right and maybe somewherein my musical memory you know,
(07:03):
tim, you were talking about howthe Beatles were really
emblematic of the era that wewere all living through,
everything that we were goingthrough, and so somewhere it's
sort of like in a musical memory.
It's stored in there in acertain way.
So I learned the originalarrangement of Blackbird.
But then when I went to do myown, I put in a little plug for
(07:28):
Acoustic Guitar Magazine.
I actually did a session onBlackbird and you can find it
online.
It was a lot of fun to play itand teach it.
But anyway, yeah, there'ssomething nice about the
original keys and there'ssomething nice about exploring
the different keys.
It's all what we feel.
Laurence Juber (07:47):
Yeah, I found that I couldn't work the melody
into the Blackbird accompanimentbecause the accompaniment is so
self-sufficient.
Mimi Fox (07:57):
Wait til you hear my weird- ass version.
Laurence Juber (07:59):
I've done is I do it DADGAD in the key of A,
and then it all works out thatway.
Tim Sparks (08:08):
Nice I do it in Drop D.
And going to Mimi's commentabout having the open strings, I
mean that's one of theadvantages of using an alter
tuning of some kind, whetherit's a drop D or a DAG or
whatever is that it does giveyou more flexibility in the
bottom end.
And because Paul's baselinescan be so important in the
(08:33):
texture of this stuff it's likeI saw her standing there in DAG,
DAG and D, because that way Ican get when I go to the five
chord, I have the open string.
If you stick with the originalkey, you don't have that
flexibility.
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (08:49):
I wanted to maybe circle back a little
bit to something that Lawrencesaid a little while ago about
sort of all the layers in thesesongs.
I mean, they not only have thereally strong melodies, they not
only have these genius chordprogressions, but especially
after the very early years, Imean they have so many counter
(09:12):
melodies, instrumentalinterludes on other instruments
they have even like thebaselines are so melodic often.
So I'm wondering, when you setout to do a song like that on
one guitar you've got two handshow do you go about sort of
making an impression of all ofthat, all those different parts
(09:37):
which a lot of times they seemall seem so integral to the
songs?
Tim Sparks (09:42):
Well, I'll jump in there, I'll show you what song I
(10:08):
got .
.
There it is.
So there's a kind of a justtaking the melody of the song
(11:05):
and coloring it in with someinteresting jazz chords that are
different from the original andgive a different insight into
the tune, a different feel.
I particularly like the way thesong in the melody has this E7,
sharp 9.
It's in the melody, so there'san example.
Mimi Fox (11:28):
That's cool.
That makes me think of thisarrangement that I did of
Daytripper on the baritoneguitar.
So I'm going to pull out mybaritone for a sec.
I try to take these pieces andthen think of, because they were
so perfect as they were writtenand we were.
You know, jeffrey, you weretalking about the layers, all of
(11:49):
the different things.
So I try to imply the layersthrough a jazz lens sometimes
and come up with differentthings.
And then I come in now, right,so I've got that.
(12:18):
But then when I come, so I see,and so I'm, I'm keep trying to
(12:48):
keep that infectious groovegoing.
I picked a baritone, which thenis much more similar to a bass,
you know, and then, and then I'mplaying the melody in octaves,
which is a more of a jazztechnique and, I think you know,
kicks it off, and then when Icome to that second part, when
it modulates to A, you know, Igo right into a jazz bass line,
(13:10):
cause for me as a jazz, thisbass line sort of sounds to me
like it could be like all blues,and it's just such an
infectious bass line.
So anyway, so for me it's justsort of all connected, and then
I get the harmonics in there andit's a very guitaristic kind of
(13:37):
thing that you can do.
So I like to use everything theguitar gives me to try to
create that layering and implyit, uh, without having to have a
whole band with me, which iskind of cool, and of course,
having a strong rhythmic driveis very helpful for that.
Laurence Juber (13:56):
So anyway, See, I do it in DADGAD in D, Because
I like to keep the partsconsistently going.
(14:16):
You know whether it's two orsometimes three parts, but I
love the counterpoint and Ithink part of it for me is just
the challenge of making the bassline and the melody work
together.
Nick Grizzle (14:34):
If you had advice for someone making their own
arrangement of a Beatles tune onsolo guitar, what would you say
is something you got to makesure you nail this, or start
with this, or you know whatwould you say.
Tim Sparks (14:47):
I'll jump in here.
Often when people are trying toplay guitar they think of
chords.
They start, say you think C,what you think of putting your
finger on the root of the chordand making the chord.
But a lot of the coolest stuffcomes from starting from the
melody and finding the chord.
Going the other way, going down, and even if you don't know
(15:09):
anything about theory, justexploring the different shapes
and intuitively recognizingthose can be helpful.
I'd like to show you a littleexample.
Recently this is a Lenny Breauarrangement of Hard Days Night,
a sample of it.
You know, lenny had this way ofplaying these shapes, this
(15:51):
tritone kind of combination fora seventh chord like that is A
and then this is D7.
So I took some of that and Idid this arrangement of so
(16:47):
that's full of these chordshapes, that instead of having a
bass of the chord that namesthe note, like here, instead of
C7, I'm making a voicing thathas the seventh in the bass.
Nick Grizzle (17:02):
There's one way to look at it Laurence.
How about you?
What would you say is somethingyou have to really pay
attention to?
Laurence Juber (17:09):
Well, you have to start with the melody,
because without the tune youdon't have a tune.
I mean, it's the melody, evenif you change the articulation
of it.
I think the melody is the placeto start, and I just look to
the melody, I look to the bassline and then I try and find a
(17:30):
place where the voice works.
And it's not always easy withBeatles songs because especially
when you get into the middleperiod, for example with
Strawberry Fields, it's in thecracks.
I mean it's between A and Bflat, because they slowed one
version down and sped up theother one and they met in the
(17:50):
middle, and so when I went toarrange it I just couldn't find
a place that it would fit, untilI realized that DADGAD that
that the E flat major 7 chord,which of course you can't do in
standard tuning in that voicing,and then everything fell into
(18:16):
place.
But there's the intro, there'sthat seventh, actually it's a
ninth voicing over D.
I mean it's a G9 over D.
Tim Sparks (18:38):
And the timbre is nice.
It's like a cello kind of sound, exactly.
Laurence Juber (18:42):
It puts it in and that's really.
I mean, that's pretty close tothe original key.
It's a little higher, but itbrings back.
It resonates in the same way asthe record does, and that's not
always necessary or appropriate, but in this particular case it
(19:03):
was the only way that I couldfind to arrange the song.
That was really true to myexperience of the song and I
tend to favor lower registerstuff.
I just like the voice of theguitar when it's in that kind of
Tim Sparks (19:22):
what I like about your arrangements DADGAD is in
DADGAD they don't sound likeDADGAD.
Laurence Juber (19:29):
Well, thank you, and that's really because I'm
applying my musicalunderstanding to it, that I'm
not just DADGAD as as a dronetuning, I'm just using it as
another standard tuning and justfinding where the notes are and
not being bound by chord shapes.
You know, I create my ownwhatever I need to, or look over
(19:56):
and kind of.
You know oh that's how he doesthat.
Tim Sparks (20:06):
So Segovia said to make a successful solo guitar
arrangement of a piece that camefrom another setting was it
should sound better than theoriginal it was based on.
Nick Grizzle (20:19):
That's tough to do , especially with these tunes,
you know.
Laurence Juber (20:25):
But that's a challenge, is how do you make
the arrangement compelling forthe audience?
Mimi Fox (20:34):
I was going to say to me.
I try to put my own personalstamp on it, honor the beauty of
the melody.
I mean, one thing we haven'ttalked about and it's probably
the best compliment I can getfrom a reviewer critic is if
someone will say that you playlyrically.
And I think about the lyrics tothe tunes and I try to put that
(20:58):
into what I am creating.
So, for example, with she'sLeaving Home, you know.
So again, I'm trying to takethe beauty of the melody and
(21:54):
really be expressive with it andalmost as if I'm singing the
lyrics.
And thank God for everyone thatI'm not actually singing the
lyrics, because what I lackvocally I try to make up for
instrumentally and so.
But then there are times like Iwas thinking about.
And then, jeffrey, this came tocome back to what you were
(22:16):
saying about the layering,because in this case I'm playing
the cello part on the guitarand combining all of the parts
and just trying to make it verymusical.
But honor the lyrics and theintent.
Yeah, sometimes the song just iswhat it is and it doesn't need
(22:37):
to.
In this case it's a little bitof reharmonization as I get
going and I have more of aclassical kind of technique that
I was using on it.
Sometimes I try to reallyreharmonize something and still
keep the lyrics in mind, likeBlackbird, so that I will have
(24:46):
and then the last verse, etc.
So I'm hearing the beauty ofthe melody, but I'm trying.
You know, paul sings it andplays it and it's perfect as
what it is.
But for me, as a composer and aplayer, I try to find, you know
, obviously the harm is veryreharmonized, but the melody is
always there.
To me the melody is sacred.
(25:08):
So that's a whole differentapproach, because there is no
way to take what Paul did, likeI said, it's a perfect picture.
So I'm trying to create anotherpicture using what he wrote as
the jumping off point.
Laurence Juber (25:34):
Yeah, by comparison.
I mean my arrangement ofBlackbird is again, I'm in
(25:59):
DADGAD in the key of A.
My benchmark was actually notPaul's version of it.
I used to play that with KennyRankin and Kenny's voice I mean
it sang like he had a Frenchhorn in his throat.
So and I think it's important,not just the lyric but the tone
(26:21):
of the melody, kind of how themelody sits on the guitar and
how vocal it can be on theguitar Because the voice of the
instrument is so important.
But I also I mean Tim's pointabout simplicity and you don't
(26:45):
have to put a lot in thearrangement if you can keep
things simple.
You know it's such a beautifulmelody.
(27:09):
I chose not to try andreproduce what the Beatles did,
but just did my own approach tothat one.
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (27:15):
We're talking lots about the melody
here and obviously these songshave such strong melodies.
But there's also a lot of songswhere, because they were very
into such big vocal arrangementsyou know choral kind of
arrangements Sometimes it'salmost hard to tell what the
melody is.
I mean, and the impression ofthe original recording is, like
(27:38):
you know, it's multiple voicesand then so I'm wondering in
cases like that, do you ever tryto I don't know somehow suggest
that quality of a bunch ofvoices in harmony on the guitar?
Mimi Fox (27:55):
Yeah, I mean, I did that on the little snippet I
played of she's Leaving Home.
That is actually implying it.
There are parts of it playedout where the melody is on top,
but it's also, you know, it'salso all there.
So if I'm coming up here, sothere's got a counterpoint going
(28:38):
on.
Laurence Juber (28:39):
that's implying different, you know, the
different voices, the actualvocal thing, and yeah, I mean
you can do it like if I neededsomeone, I mean just with block
harmonies too.
(29:00):
Where it gets tricky is whenyou've got counterpoint going on
with this harmony counterpointbut you've also got the melody
as a separate thing.
Tim Sparks (29:12):
One thing about the arrangement.
Now there are tunes that havesuch a signature riff built into
them, like Day Tripper right, Imean, you can't do a solo
version of that tune withoutputting that bass line into it,
you know.
But a lot of songs less is morecan be that can also work
because, like Laurence said, ifyou have the melody and you
(29:35):
really phrase that, you don'thave to have a really busy
arrangement to have somethingthat really works for the
listener.
I recently did an arrangementfor a show of Paul McCartney
tune.
I based it on Sergio Mendes'Brazil 66 arrangement.
Nick Grizzle (30:10):
That's the end of part one.
Tune in to part two to learnmore about this arrangement, our
guest's varied approaches torhythm and groove, and much more
.
The Acoustic Guitar podcast isbrought to you by the team at
Acoustic Guitar Magazine.
I'm your host, nick Grizzle,joined for this episode by
Jeffrey Pepper Rogers.
The Acoustic Guitar podcast isdirected and edited by Joey
(30:30):
Lusterman.
Tanya Gonzalez is our producer.
Executive producers are LyzyLusterman and Stephanie Campos
Dal broi.
Intro music for this episode isperformed by Laurence Juber.
If you enjoy this podcast andwant to support us, please visit
our Patreon page at patreon.
com slash acoustic guitar plusor find the link in the show
notes for this episode.
As a supporter, you'll haveaccess to exclusive bonus
(30:53):
episodes, along with otherspecial perks and if you're
already a patron.
Thank you so much for yoursupport.
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