June 12, 2024 • 14 mins
Catch up with singer-songwriter (and La Luz lead guitarist) Shana Cleveland in this bonus Acoustic Guitar Sessions episode. We talk shredding, open tunings, playing guitar outside, and enjoy a performance of “Quick Winter Sun” from her latest album, Manzanita.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joey Lusterman (00:00):
Welcome to the Acoustic Guitar Podcast.
I'm your guest host, JoeyLusterman.
Usually I stay behind thescenes of the show, but I'm
filling in while Nick is out ofthe office.
For this Acoustic GuitarSessions mini-sode, I'm joined
by singer-songwriter andquote-unquote secret shredder,
Shana Cleveland, who you mayalso know as the lead guitarist
in La Luz.
Before our conversation,Cleveland kicks things off with
(00:22):
a performance of her song QuickWinter Sun from her latest album
, Manzanita here in the valleythe hours are cut Down from the
(01:01):
hills up above Double the dark.
Shana Cleveland (01:06):
Now the new season's come, there goes the
quick winter sun.
Woke up too late.
Now the day's almost done.
(01:45):
There goes the quick winter sun.
All of the others around ushave gone.
Look, we're the last humans Outon the trail.
(02:22):
Too far, we feel our way backto the car.
Joey Lusterman (02:55):
Swallows return to their houses of mud.
There goes the quick winter sun.
Do you have a differentapproach when you're, when
you're playing or writing foracoustic versus electric?
Shana Cleveland (03:13):
yeah, the biggest difference is when I
play electric I use a pick and,um, when I play acoustic I never
really use a pick, prettyexclusively finger picking on
acoustic and using a pick onelectric.
On acoustic I use a lot of opentunings, but on electric I
never really do and it'shonestly just probably a
(03:34):
convenience thing.
Like with Laloos, I don't wantto be switching guitars in the
middle of the set, so I justkind of keep it simple.
But with my solo projects onacoustic it feels a little more
relaxed, I guess.
So I just kind of will allowmyself to do several different
tunings and just kind of makepeople wait a little bit.
Joey Lusterman (03:58):
I noticed you made a bumper sticker that says
I break for alternate tunings.
Shana Cleveland (04:03):
Yeah, it's surprisingly popular.
Joey Lusterman (04:05):
I bet.
What is it about playing analternate tunings that you like
so much, and do you have afavorite?
Shana Cleveland (04:12):
Yeah, I do so.
My favorite for the last twoalbums I've been really into
Open G minor, and so forManzanita and for my album Night
of the War Moon, both haveseveral songs in open G minor.
I I feel like for the nextrecord I have to like give that
one up cause I've just been sointo it for so long.
(04:33):
But um, but yeah, open tunings.
I feel like for me it's likeopen tuning, open mind, like I
can just kind of let my mindwander easier.
It's so easy to make somethingsound good right away in an open
tuning.
I think it kind of takes thepressure off and it kind of lets
the inner critic take a break.
(04:54):
And for me that's the bestplace to start writing a song
from, where I'm sort of justwandering around and not too
worried about really what chordsI'm playing or you know doing
something right or wrong.
It's just sort of you can justkind of noodle.
I feel like in a way that is isis really inspiring for me.
(05:18):
I read that you like, reallylike, to play guitar outside,
and so I'm wondering what therole of nature or the wilderness
is in your artistic practiceyeah, I feel like it's kind of a
similar thing that I getplaying outside as as uh is
playing in an open tuning, whereit's just kind it just is an
(05:38):
environment where I feel like Ican kind of get outside of my
head a little bit when, if I'msitting inside of of a room,
that's that's really sort ofcontrolled, I feel like I I can
hear, I can hear mistakes better, I can sort of it's.
There's something a littleintimidating I think about,
(06:00):
about too much control, and sowhen I'm outside there's there's
other things going on and theworld just seems to be going on
without me and sort ofuninterested in what I'm doing,
and I feel like that's just areally nice environment for
imagination.
Joey Lusterman (06:22):
Going back to a little bit about the differences
between the Solo Project andthe La Luz thing.
I know La Luz isn't like a surfrock band necessarily.
I don't want to pigeonhole itlike that, but it strikes me
that fingerstyle acoustic guitarand surf rock are both really
guitar-driven.
There's a lot of emphasis puton technique and speed and and
(06:44):
kind of flair, and so I waswondering if you see a
correlation between that, likekind of surf rock riff, lick,
shredding, and fingerstyle solostuff yeah, I mean, I, I, I
think so I, I think that I amsort of drawn to a a bit of like
.
Shana Cleveland (07:04):
I think that I am sort of drawn to a bit of
like showiness with guitar.
I think that, like, I justhesitate with that because I am,
you know, self-taught and I'vealways I don't really know
anything about the technicalaspects of music or guitar, and
(07:24):
if I'm in an environment withpeople who do and who want to
talk to me about playing thefifth or whatever, just very
simple music theory stuff, it'sjust completely over my head.
And so I but I don't know, I amlike I've always just been
really into interesting guitarand and guitar solos.
(07:46):
I love guitar solos.
Um, so, yeah, I think that likethat is, uh, that's always just
kind of what's interested meabout guitar.
I've never really been a big, abig, uh, strummer and I feel
like I'm getting farther andfarther away from that.
You know, as, as I go, um, yeah, it's, yeah, I don't know it's
(08:08):
funny to think of it that way,because I do I think I'm like a
secret shredder.
Joey Lusterman (08:12):
I feel like I try to kind of hide how much joy
it gives me, that's awesomewhen you're playing songs like
Quick Winter Sun or Evil Eye andSheriff of the Salton Sea.
They have this like reallyintricate and propulsive
fingerstyle playing and I'm justcurious about how you develop
patterns or, if you have like,if you hear it in your head
(08:32):
first or if you're playing andthey kind of develop naturally.
Shana Cleveland (08:36):
Yeah, I don't, I don't know really, I feel like
it's.
I feel like it's, it's so muchit's.
It's.
What I love about open tuningsis that sort of getting to a
place where I'm I'm, I'mcomposing without thinking and
so I think that, yeah, a lot ofthe guitar parts, especially for
(08:57):
my, my acoustic solo work, areso, so intuitive.
It's almost.
It's almost a hindrance at times, because if I go to play the
songs that I haven't played themin a while, I'm relying 100% on
muscle memory and, uh, andsometimes that doesn't come
through, you know, and it's justlike this crazy puzzle.
(09:19):
I feel like that what's likethe beautiful mind where there's
like equations flying by orwhatever.
I feel like I'm just like lostin guitar land with like no map
to get out.
Yeah, so it's.
I, it's totally.
Yeah, it's, it's intuitive andI.
That's what I love about it.
(09:39):
But it is a little scary for mebecause if I don't sort of
practice every now and then,then it can be hard to kind of
find the songs again.
Luckily, I'm really good atlearning things by ear, so
that's kind of what I have to doagain is like relearn the songs
if it's been a while do youhave a regular like practice
routine?
not really.
I mean, I like to practice inthe sunshine and so I like to go
(10:02):
outside and and like sit, sitin an office chair chair and
play guitar in the sun.
That's my favorite thing.
I feel like I kind of hatepractice.
To be honest, I love justroaming around without any
intention, but practicing forshows feels like so boring to me
(10:23):
.
But when I'm actually doing itI always find that I do in fact
love it.
Joey Lusterman (10:27):
You know, but it's hard for me to get the
motivation sometimes to topractice and then can we talk a
little bit about the likespecific gear that you use, like
what's your main acousticguitar uh, yeah, I, my main
acoustic is, uh, it's thisAlvarez from the 70s and it's
pretty unique.
Shana Cleveland (10:48):
It's got like a classical guitar neck and
headstock but it's a steelstring.
I usually use silk and steelstrings on it and it just sounds
really nice and I've got a LRBags pickup inside.
I kind of like the wide neckand, yeah, I just like the way
(11:11):
it sounds.
I like the way that silk andsteel strings sound, how they're
sort of a midway between aclassical and a steel string and
, yeah, I'm not much of a gearnerd.
So I found this one and I justsort of was immediately drawn to
it and I never really playanything else.
Joey Lusterman (11:33):
Well, it sounds really good on that record,
especially with all the otherinstrumentation.
Shana Cleveland (11:38):
I've worked with a lot of the same people
for most of my solo records, andthere are people that I've
known for a long time, and soit's just it's mostly improvised
.
Um, I'll, I'll send them thesongs a couple of weeks in
advance and then we'll just gointo the studio and, um, I'll
have my guitar parts, you know,laid down first, and then
(12:01):
they'll just kind of try stuffand I'll say, yeah, like that or
maybe more like this, and yeah,we just kind of feel it out.
Do you ever record outside inthe sunshine?
And I'll say, yeah, like thator maybe more like this.
Joey Lusterman (12:07):
And yeah, I would just kind of feel it out.
I don't Do you ever recordoutside in the sunshine?
Shana Cleveland (12:11):
No, no, that would be great.
That's the thing about studiosthey don't usually have much
sunshine.
Joey Lusterman (12:18):
Yeah, and it's always so weird.
I haven't done it in a while,but going into the studio, it's
like you want me to make musicin here.
Shana Cleveland (12:28):
It's like you want me to make music in here.
It's like so dead.
I know you go for a lunch breakand it's like it's blinded.
Joey Lusterman (12:34):
So one thing we like to ask everybody who comes
on here is about like words ofwisdom.
So is there a piece of advicethat was given to you that
really resonated?
And it can be specific aboutlike guitar technique or
songwriting or just life ingeneral?
Shana Cleveland (12:50):
I guess I I just try to not put too much
stock in in uh rules in generaland I think that, uh, you know,
I think that there there's a lotyou encounter a lot of
snobbiness.
You know, in different realmsof the music industry, just from
(13:12):
, like, going into a guitarstore and asking a question or
you know, or taking lessons it'syou'll run into people who say,
oh, this is the way that youhave to do this and that's never
true.
Never true.
(13:34):
When I started finger picking, Istarted by playing banjo and I
was like, okay, I got this banjo, I want to go take a class
because I don't know what I'mdoing on this thing.
And I went into a store andthey were like, well, you have
to choose.
Whether you're doing Scruggsstyle or claw hammer,
everybody's got to choose.
And I was just like that soundslike such BS.
And I just started learning onmy own and that really ended up
being the best guitar lesson Icould have taken is to just
(13:55):
learn banjo.
I feel like it was, but I don'tknow if anyone would have ever
told me that.
I think there's just a lot ofthere's so much freedom and just
kind of coming up with your ownrules to hear more from shana
cleveland.
Joey Lusterman (14:13):
Be sure to check out the show notes for this
episode.
If you're enjoying the acousticguitar podcast, please head
over to our patreon page atpatreoncom.
Slash acoustic guitar plus.
This is a listener funded andyour pledge of $1 or $5 or $9 a
month helps us to continue toproduce new episodes.
Plus, you'll get instant accessto a whole bunch of great perks
(14:34):
, like exclusive live streamworkshops, song transcriptions
and guitar lessons.
If you aren't able to make acontribution at this time, we
understand.
Another way you can support theshow without spending any money
is to leave a 5-star ratingalong with a review on Apple
Podcasts.
Thanks again for listening andfor supporting Acoustic Guitar.
Welcome to the Acoustic Guitar Podcast.
I'm your guest host, JoeyLusterman.
Usually I stay behind thescenes of the show, but I'm
filling in while Nick is out ofthe office.
For this Acoustic GuitarSessions mini-sode, I'm joined
by singer-songwriter andquote-unquote secret shredder,
Shana Cleveland, who you mayalso know as the lead guitarist
in La Luz.
Before our conversation,Cleveland kicks things off with
(00:22):
a performance of her song QuickWinter Sun from her latest album
, Manzanita here in the valleythe hours are cut Down from the
(01:01):
hills up above Double the dark.
Shana Cleveland (01:06):
Now the new season's come, there goes the
quick winter sun.
Woke up too late.
Now the day's almost done.
(01:45):
There goes the quick winter sun.
All of the others around ushave gone.
Look, we're the last humans Outon the trail.
(02:22):
Too far, we feel our way backto the car.
Joey Lusterman (02:55):
Swallows return to their houses of mud.
There goes the quick winter sun.
Do you have a differentapproach when you're, when
you're playing or writing foracoustic versus electric?
Shana Cleveland (03:13):
yeah, the biggest difference is when I
play electric I use a pick and,um, when I play acoustic I never
really use a pick, prettyexclusively finger picking on
acoustic and using a pick onelectric.
On acoustic I use a lot of opentunings, but on electric I
never really do and it'shonestly just probably a
(03:34):
convenience thing.
Like with Laloos, I don't wantto be switching guitars in the
middle of the set, so I justkind of keep it simple.
But with my solo projects onacoustic it feels a little more
relaxed, I guess.
So I just kind of will allowmyself to do several different
tunings and just kind of makepeople wait a little bit.
Joey Lusterman (03:58):
I noticed you made a bumper sticker that says
I break for alternate tunings.
Shana Cleveland (04:03):
Yeah, it's surprisingly popular.
Joey Lusterman (04:05):
I bet.
What is it about playing analternate tunings that you like
so much, and do you have afavorite?
Shana Cleveland (04:12):
Yeah, I do so.
My favorite for the last twoalbums I've been really into
Open G minor, and so forManzanita and for my album Night
of the War Moon, both haveseveral songs in open G minor.
I I feel like for the nextrecord I have to like give that
one up cause I've just been sointo it for so long.
(04:33):
But um, but yeah, open tunings.
I feel like for me it's likeopen tuning, open mind, like I
can just kind of let my mindwander easier.
It's so easy to make somethingsound good right away in an open
tuning.
I think it kind of takes thepressure off and it kind of lets
the inner critic take a break.
(04:54):
And for me that's the bestplace to start writing a song
from, where I'm sort of justwandering around and not too
worried about really what chordsI'm playing or you know doing
something right or wrong.
It's just sort of you can justkind of noodle.
I feel like in a way that is isis really inspiring for me.
(05:18):
I read that you like, reallylike, to play guitar outside,
and so I'm wondering what therole of nature or the wilderness
is in your artistic practiceyeah, I feel like it's kind of a
similar thing that I getplaying outside as as uh is
playing in an open tuning, whereit's just kind it just is an
(05:38):
environment where I feel like Ican kind of get outside of my
head a little bit when, if I'msitting inside of of a room,
that's that's really sort ofcontrolled, I feel like I I can
hear, I can hear mistakes better, I can sort of it's.
There's something a littleintimidating I think about,
(06:00):
about too much control, and sowhen I'm outside there's there's
other things going on and theworld just seems to be going on
without me and sort ofuninterested in what I'm doing,
and I feel like that's just areally nice environment for
imagination.
Joey Lusterman (06:22):
Going back to a little bit about the differences
between the Solo Project andthe La Luz thing.
I know La Luz isn't like a surfrock band necessarily.
I don't want to pigeonhole itlike that, but it strikes me
that fingerstyle acoustic guitarand surf rock are both really
guitar-driven.
There's a lot of emphasis puton technique and speed and and
(06:44):
kind of flair, and so I waswondering if you see a
correlation between that, likekind of surf rock riff, lick,
shredding, and fingerstyle solostuff yeah, I mean, I, I, I
think so I, I think that I amsort of drawn to a a bit of like
.
Shana Cleveland (07:04):
I think that I am sort of drawn to a bit of
like showiness with guitar.
I think that, like, I justhesitate with that because I am,
you know, self-taught and I'vealways I don't really know
anything about the technicalaspects of music or guitar, and
(07:24):
if I'm in an environment withpeople who do and who want to
talk to me about playing thefifth or whatever, just very
simple music theory stuff, it'sjust completely over my head.
And so I but I don't know, I amlike I've always just been
really into interesting guitarand and guitar solos.
(07:46):
I love guitar solos.
Um, so, yeah, I think that likethat is, uh, that's always just
kind of what's interested meabout guitar.
I've never really been a big, abig, uh, strummer and I feel
like I'm getting farther andfarther away from that.
You know, as, as I go, um, yeah, it's, yeah, I don't know it's
(08:08):
funny to think of it that way,because I do I think I'm like a
secret shredder.
Joey Lusterman (08:12):
I feel like I try to kind of hide how much joy
it gives me, that's awesomewhen you're playing songs like
Quick Winter Sun or Evil Eye andSheriff of the Salton Sea.
They have this like reallyintricate and propulsive
fingerstyle playing and I'm justcurious about how you develop
patterns or, if you have like,if you hear it in your head
(08:32):
first or if you're playing andthey kind of develop naturally.
Shana Cleveland (08:36):
Yeah, I don't, I don't know really, I feel like
it's.
I feel like it's, it's so muchit's.
It's.
What I love about open tuningsis that sort of getting to a
place where I'm I'm, I'mcomposing without thinking and
so I think that, yeah, a lot ofthe guitar parts, especially for
(08:57):
my, my acoustic solo work, areso, so intuitive.
It's almost.
It's almost a hindrance at times, because if I go to play the
songs that I haven't played themin a while, I'm relying 100% on
muscle memory and, uh, andsometimes that doesn't come
through, you know, and it's justlike this crazy puzzle.
(09:19):
I feel like that what's likethe beautiful mind where there's
like equations flying by orwhatever.
I feel like I'm just like lostin guitar land with like no map
to get out.
Yeah, so it's.
I, it's totally.
Yeah, it's, it's intuitive andI.
That's what I love about it.
(09:39):
But it is a little scary for mebecause if I don't sort of
practice every now and then,then it can be hard to kind of
find the songs again.
Luckily, I'm really good atlearning things by ear, so
that's kind of what I have to doagain is like relearn the songs
if it's been a while do youhave a regular like practice
routine?
not really.
I mean, I like to practice inthe sunshine and so I like to go
(10:02):
outside and and like sit, sitin an office chair chair and
play guitar in the sun.
That's my favorite thing.
I feel like I kind of hatepractice.
To be honest, I love justroaming around without any
intention, but practicing forshows feels like so boring to me
(10:23):
.
But when I'm actually doing itI always find that I do in fact
love it.
Joey Lusterman (10:27):
You know, but it's hard for me to get the
motivation sometimes to topractice and then can we talk a
little bit about the likespecific gear that you use, like
what's your main acousticguitar uh, yeah, I, my main
acoustic is, uh, it's thisAlvarez from the 70s and it's
pretty unique.
Shana Cleveland (10:48):
It's got like a classical guitar neck and
headstock but it's a steelstring.
I usually use silk and steelstrings on it and it just sounds
really nice and I've got a LRBags pickup inside.
I kind of like the wide neckand, yeah, I just like the way
(11:11):
it sounds.
I like the way that silk andsteel strings sound, how they're
sort of a midway between aclassical and a steel string and
, yeah, I'm not much of a gearnerd.
So I found this one and I justsort of was immediately drawn to
it and I never really playanything else.
Joey Lusterman (11:33):
Well, it sounds really good on that record,
especially with all the otherinstrumentation.
Shana Cleveland (11:38):
I've worked with a lot of the same people
for most of my solo records, andthere are people that I've
known for a long time, and soit's just it's mostly improvised
.
Um, I'll, I'll send them thesongs a couple of weeks in
advance and then we'll just gointo the studio and, um, I'll
have my guitar parts, you know,laid down first, and then
(12:01):
they'll just kind of try stuffand I'll say, yeah, like that or
maybe more like this, and yeah,we just kind of feel it out.
Do you ever record outside inthe sunshine?
And I'll say, yeah, like thator maybe more like this.
Joey Lusterman (12:07):
And yeah, I would just kind of feel it out.
I don't Do you ever recordoutside in the sunshine?
Shana Cleveland (12:11):
No, no, that would be great.
That's the thing about studiosthey don't usually have much
sunshine.
Joey Lusterman (12:18):
Yeah, and it's always so weird.
I haven't done it in a while,but going into the studio, it's
like you want me to make musicin here.
Shana Cleveland (12:28):
It's like you want me to make music in here.
It's like so dead.
I know you go for a lunch breakand it's like it's blinded.
Joey Lusterman (12:34):
So one thing we like to ask everybody who comes
on here is about like words ofwisdom.
So is there a piece of advicethat was given to you that
really resonated?
And it can be specific aboutlike guitar technique or
songwriting or just life ingeneral?
Shana Cleveland (12:50):
I guess I I just try to not put too much
stock in in uh rules in generaland I think that, uh, you know,
I think that there there's a lotyou encounter a lot of
snobbiness.
You know, in different realmsof the music industry, just from
(13:12):
, like, going into a guitarstore and asking a question or
you know, or taking lessons it'syou'll run into people who say,
oh, this is the way that youhave to do this and that's never
true.
Never true.
(13:34):
When I started finger picking, Istarted by playing banjo and I
was like, okay, I got this banjo, I want to go take a class
because I don't know what I'mdoing on this thing.
And I went into a store andthey were like, well, you have
to choose.
Whether you're doing Scruggsstyle or claw hammer,
everybody's got to choose.
And I was just like that soundslike such BS.
And I just started learning onmy own and that really ended up
being the best guitar lesson Icould have taken is to just
(13:55):
learn banjo.
I feel like it was, but I don'tknow if anyone would have ever
told me that.
I think there's just a lot ofthere's so much freedom and just
kind of coming up with your ownrules to hear more from shana
cleveland.
Joey Lusterman (14:13):
Be sure to check out the show notes for this
episode.
If you're enjoying the acousticguitar podcast, please head
over to our patreon page atpatreoncom.
Slash acoustic guitar plus.
This is a listener funded andyour pledge of $1 or $5 or $9 a
month helps us to continue toproduce new episodes.
Plus, you'll get instant accessto a whole bunch of great perks
(14:34):
, like exclusive live streamworkshops, song transcriptions
and guitar lessons.
If you aren't able to make acontribution at this time, we
understand.
Another way you can support theshow without spending any money
is to leave a 5-star ratingalong with a review on Apple
Podcasts.
Thanks again for listening andfor supporting Acoustic Guitar.
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