February 28, 2024 • 33 mins
How does competition fit into the creative process? We're joined by Abby Posner, Rachel Garcia, and Thu Tran for a candid roundtable discussion all about songwriting competitions. Explore the highs and lows of participating in these events, how to pick which song to enter, and the impact contests can have on a guitarist's career.
Additional resources:
- Listen to Part 2 on Patreon.
- Visit Abby Posner’s website and watch the video for "Get Loud" - her 2023 USA Songwriting Competition grand prize winning song. Her latest album is Second Chances.
- Visit the Singer and the Songwriter's website and listen to "The Art of Missing You" - their West Coast Songwriters International Song Contest winner. Their latest album is In the Bleak Midwinter.
- Visit Jeffrey Pepper Rodger's website for an inside look at his song "Fly" - a grand prize winner of the John Lennon Songwriting Contest.
- Learn more about the contests mentioned in this episode: John Lennon Songwriting Competition, Kerrville's Grassy Hill New Folk Competition, NewSong Music Performance & Songwriting Competition, USA Songwriting Competition, West Coast Songwriters International Song Contest.
The Acoustic Guitar Podcast theme music is composed by Adam Perlmutter and performed for this episode by Thu Tran.
This episode is hosted by Nick Grizzle and Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers, produced by Tanya Gonzalez, and directed and edited by Joey Lusterman. Executive producers are Lyzy Lusterman and Stephanie Campos Dal Broi.
The Acoustic Guitar Podcast is produced by the team at Acoustic Guitar magazine, including:
- Publisher: Lyzy Lusterman
- Editorial Director: Adam Perlmutter
- Managing Editor: Kevin Owens
- Creative Director: Joey Lusterman
- Digital Content Director: Stephanie Campos Dal Broi
- Digital Content Manager: Nick Grizzle
- Marketing Services Manager: Tanya Gonzalez
Special thanks to our listeners who support the show on Patreon.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nick Grizzle (00:44):
Welcome to the Acoustic Guitar Podcast.
I'm your host, Nick Grizzle,joined by co-host Jeffrey Pepper
Rogers, who, you may know, wonthe 2008 John Lennon Songwriting
Contest with his country tuneFly.
This episode is all aboutsongwriting competitions.
We're joined by Abby Posner,Rachel Garcia, and Thu Tran.
(01:04):
Abby Posner has been a workingmusician in Los Angeles for the
past 18 years.
She is the grand prize winnerof the 2023 USA Songwriting
Competition with William HCarpenter for their song Get
Loud.
Rachel Garcia and Thu Tranwrite, record, and perform
together as The Singer and theSongwriter.
They won the West CoastSongwriters International Song
(01:28):
Contest for their song the Artof Missing You.
Our candid roundtable discussionexplores the impact contests
have on musicians' careers, thehighs and lows of participating
in these events and what role,if any, competition plays in the
creative process.
Be sure to check out the linksin our show notes to learn more
about our guests and their music.
(01:48):
You'll also find the link tosupport the Acoustic Guitar
Podcast on Patreon, that'spatreon dot com slash
acousticguitarplus.
If you can't make a pledge atthis time, you can also support
the show by leaving a review onApple Podcasts.
Thanks for listening and forchipping in if you can.
We begin with Jeffrey PepperRogers asking Abby Posner why
(02:09):
she started entering songwritingcompetitions.
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (02:11):
What was your goal when you started to
enter contests?
What were you hoping for, Imean, aside from the obvious
which is to win?
But what were you aiming toaccomplish?
Abby Posner (02:24):
Yeah, so I've been writing music for a long time.
I've been at this for a littleover 15 years and I never really
even thought to apply for thesethings.
To be honest, I was reallyfocused on touring and I was
really focused on sync licensingand so I honestly didn't even
(02:47):
really think to go this routeuntil I first applied the John
Lennon Songwriting Competitionand then I just thought, well,
why not, it's just an extrabonus.
So I never have written songsspecifically for songwriting
competitions and that'ssomething that's.
It's almost like you have tochange your mind frame a little
(03:10):
bit, almost like writing songsfor sync licensing.
I write songs from the heart asan artist, and then when I'm
writing songs for briefs formusic supervisors in sync
placements, it's kind of adifferent.
I'm writing from a differentplace.
So I never really thought towrite specifically for a contest
(03:30):
.
Yeah, but it just so happensthat this last song that I wrote
with my co-writer, WillCarpenter, won the USA
Songwriting Competition and wewere specifically writing
because it was a cause we werevery passionate about and it was
art to raise awareness and tobring to make sure that people
(03:57):
felt heard and seen that weren't.
Nick Grizzle (04:01):
So was that written specifically for the
competition?
Abby Posner (04:04):
No, not at all.
We had no intention of winningany prizes.
We were writing kind of with alittle bit of a sync.
He's one of my co-writers Iwrite licensing music with, but
we really just want.
We were feeling a lot of rageat the time.
This was after Roe v Wade, youknow, got overturned and we both
(04:26):
just sat down and wrote a song.
Nick Grizzle (04:29):
And Rachel and Thu , how about you?
Rachel Garcia (04:31):
We've always been independent musicians.
It's always just been the twoof us.
So I think one of theintentions of submitting for
these competitions was to feelsupported, was to garner support
(04:51):
from a larger institution.
We've always felt a bit stuckto sort of move our career
forward.
Like, as we grow as artists,our career has often not
followed, and so I think we sawit as one of the avenues to gain
(05:14):
outside support.
So it wasn't just the two of usreally hustling, but just
getting this like outside and, Ithink, also some validation
from the industry and from folkmusic.
It's sort of this like outsidestamp that says we actually like
(05:35):
, approve of these two peopleand we think that they're good,
and so that sort of.
.
.
It's just sort of like on yourwebsite, you know this little
mark, or it's on your socialmedia, and I think when people
are booking you, even if theydon't know what the competition
is, they sort of have this likeoutside, institutional
validation of like 'we approveof these two people, you can
(05:58):
trust them,' and so I think Ithink we were searching for that
as well.
Nick Grizzle (06:05):
How do you pick which songs to enter?
If you're not writingspecifically for this contest,
say any given contest, how doyou choose which song?
Is there something inparticular about a song that
kind of stands out as this wouldbe good for a competition?
Abby Posner (06:21):
Yeah, I think that you kind of go through, at least
for me, I go through my albumand I think about what's the
hook, what's the catchiest,biggest hook?
I also think about genre andwhich, because I write a lot of
different genres in my on myalbums and so I'm thinking, well
, what's gonna be like thebiggest thing that can grab
(06:44):
somebody's ear and make themwant more?
And I'm really specificallyfocusing in on choruses, making
sure that it's a little bit ofan anthem, something that is an
earworm.
The last song that Will and Isubmitted is a very big, almost
anthem piece.
(07:05):
We've been submitting it forsports games and arenas and I
think that that was somethingthat perhaps caught the ear of
the contest was that it was big,it had a theme, it had a
message and there it was very.
.
.
You know, we both produced itand we both kind of added.
(07:28):
I added a more organic, naturalelement to that production,
while Will took the reins andadded more of an electronic feel
.
And I think that when you worktogether as a team it really
boosts your chances, because I'ma lone wolf producer normally
and I just he just makes mesound better because he's a
different person and he'sapproaching music in a different
(07:50):
way.
So I think it's this song one,because it was a collaboration
of two very different minds.
Nick Grizzle (07:59):
Yeah, and that's Get Loud.
Was that one right?
Rachel Garcia (08:03):
Abby
Yeah, "gGet Loud.
I relate to it.
Abby shared.
A lot goes into it a lot ofconversations about what they
would like, what they wouldrespond to, what the specific
audience in that region mightrespond to, for instance, like
the Curville Folk Festival isgonna be like a really different
choice than something that'snational.
(08:24):
I think for us we definitelychoose what we think is our best
song Songs that we wrote almostkind of split, so songs that
feel like we both had a heavyhand in, and then, I think,
songs that are general enoughthat people can sort of overlay
their own story and life ontothe meaning of this song, and
(08:46):
then specific enough that it'slike interesting.
So we call that in our band, wecall that telescoping.
So a band, so a song thatreally has that like granular
detail, we call it thinginess,like the stuff and the details
of a song, so someone's reallyinterested, but also like a
general enough message that itcould fit many people's like
(09:08):
lives and stories.
Abby Posner (09:10):
I love that so much .
I totally agree with you onthat, Rachel.
That's like that's, and that'salso just an incredible thing
for sync.
You know, like if you haveuniversal lyrics that are kind
of like we don't really knowwhat the song is about, even
though the writers are like,this is a very important message
to us.
It could mean something sodifferent to everyone, and I
really agree with what you saidthere for sure.
Thu Tran (09:31):
Oh, I was going to say that it's something I learned
from Rachel as a writer.
Rachel's a poet and that, likeI think the kind of anthemic
stuff is like what I would havealways logically been like, oh,
something really catchy is whatpeople are going to like.
But I've learned from Racheland her writing is so specific.
(09:52):
I'm always like that's sospecific, like no one's who's
going to relate to that, butit's -without getting kind of
too like shop talky about it-like there's something about
thinking.
When you're talking about, like, choosing a song for the
songwriting competition, you'reup against a bunch of people,
right, if it's an onlinesubmission, then it's tons more
(10:14):
people.
But like, all these writers arewriting songs and sometimes
it's that really specific momentof the lyric-- that's really
what differentiates you.
So it's they're never going toremember the title or whatever.
But if there's some detail inthere, they're like oh yeah,
it's that song and it's got likean egg in it.
You know, like that's allthat's needed to be, like that
(10:35):
kind of sifts to the top.
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (10:36):
Yeah, I was just going to add from my
own experience, because I, afterwriting songs for several
decades, I had this feelingabout entering the John Lennon
Songwriting Contest and I woundup winning for this song.
But there was this veryspecific feeling that I had
about that song, that most ofthe stuff that I had written
(11:00):
felt very tied to myidiosyncratic style as a
guitarist, as a singer, andthere was something about this
song that I wrote that felt morelike elemental, like I could
hear a bunch of people maybegrabbing it and singing it a
little bit more.
I don't know it's.
(11:22):
It's it's related to theuniversal element that you're
talking about, but it's alsoabout, maybe, something that
other people could perform toand I was like, ok, I'm going to
enter this and it seemed to bea good instinct and, you know,
lightning struck on my firsttime out with that.
(11:42):
But it kind of.
It leads to another questionthat I wanted to ask you all to,
which is about categories,about genre.
So in my own experience, Iwound up entering the country
category, even though I've never, ever considered myself a
country songwriter.
But that song that's what itwas, you know, was based on a
(12:05):
fiddle tune, part of it and itwas.
You know it was based inbluegrass and country, but a lot
of times choosing a genre isdifferent.
I mean there's folk and there'sAmericana, and there's singer-
songwriter.
I mean, songs can be looked atin so many ways.
So how do you figure whereyou're going to mean, along with
(12:29):
choosing the song, what box areyou going to put it in?
Abby Posner (12:32):
Yeah, that's a really good question.
I think that's where I strugglesometimes because I am so
inspired by.
I mean, I love music, period.
I just love all music and I'mso influenced by soul and
Americana and folk and rock andpop and sometimes I'll just
splatter that all on a page.
(12:53):
This song that Will and I wrotehappened to be a very rock kind
of alternative song, which is alittle bit outside of my
category.
I tend to write more folk andAmericana.
We did have a little tinge of abanjo in there, but Will was
the one that submitted and andit was submitted under
(13:15):
alternative rock and I wouldhave never and none of my other
songs would fit that category.
So it was.
It was wise that he submittedunder that, you know.
So it was, yeah, that.
I think that was.
That was part of the winningdeal.
If we had done Americana, Idon't know, I don't know that we
(13:35):
would have won.
Thu Tran (13:36):
That's such a great point, Abby.
I think it made me think.
I think one of the thingsyou're choosing in choosing the
genre to compete in is to choosewho your competitors are,
because I feel like in some waysthis just makes me think like
music is such a hard thing tomake compete, like it's kind of
(14:01):
antithetical to how I feel aboutmusic.
and I think about it sort oflike it's like the Westminster
dog show, because, all dogs aregood dogs.
How pure they are in theircategory is not why I love dogs,
you know.
(14:26):
So to like, judge it on, likeit's for it's like.
Nick Grizzle (14:29):
That's not the point, of dogs man.
Thu Tran (14:33):
And if I'm gonna like be labor that metaphor, I feel
like our music's like a mutt andit has no place winning any of
these things.
But if it's going to beconsidered, that's pretty nice
you know, yeah, yeah, it'swonderful.
Abby Posner (14:53):
I love that so much .
I really really love that.
We think of our song as a mutttoo, because it's a little bit
of everything you know well,those are the best dogs.
Those are the best dogs,although I do have a.
I have a purebred, I have abasset hound, but he is a rescue
, so don't judge there.
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (15:08):
I just wanted to double back to ask
when entering, because we'vemade a few references here to
the recordings and I knowcontests are different in terms
of whether they want a veryproduced recording or something
simpler or.
But how do you think about that?
You know, do you, do you feellike is a simple demo going to
(15:32):
be okay, maybe for some contest?
Do you feel like you wantsomething that's more really
studio release worthy?
Abby Posner (15:41):
For me.
I love producing and so I andthis is again, this is just my
own personal experience I don'tmake anything half I would.
I would personally never submitan unfinished demo.
I also just love the process ofproducing and I want to make it
(16:02):
as good as I possibly can and Ialways want to challenge myself
to be better on each song andon each album and I want to
challenge myself to grow as anartist and as a producer.
So personally, I steer awayfrom unfinished or just kind of
raw demos.
Some of the stuff that Iproduce in general is a little
bit raw, but it's on purpose,because I like that gritty, the
(16:25):
grittiness.
But I would, I would definitelyalways submit at least a final
mix, if not a final master, andthat's just.
That's just me.
Thu Tran (16:35):
I agree with that.
I think we've mostly onlysubmitted completed mastered
songs and I think it just and Iknow many competitions don't
require that and I think ifyou're treating it like a game
which kind of it is right it's acontest, that you're thinking
about the other players as welland it's just you want it to
(16:59):
hold up against other people whomight would be, you know,
submitting a fully finishedmastered thing, and so it might
not do your song that manyfavors.
But again, yeah, there areplenty of like great songs and
that lo-fi kind of demo qualityis part of its appeal.
But I try to put myself in thethe headspace of the judges if
(17:23):
they're listening back to, backto things you know, sometimes
it's like it's super quiet orit's grainy or it's just popping
noises and and that can get youout of the zone and yeah,
although some some of thecompetition I guess I'm thinking
in particularly like of theKerville, is you two Rachel and
and two you.
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (17:42):
You went down to Kerrville, right, you
were part of that competition,so they have.
I was actually just lookingover their, their, their contest
rules and they make this.
They say in all caps, I thinkyou know make sure the lyrics
are really clear and and theywant it and they're very strict
about it has to be two peoplemaximum, two people on stage
(18:03):
stripped down.
Nick Grizzle (18:05):
So, as I understand it, that whole
competition, kerville, is youdon't submit a song, you go and
you perform and then that's yourentry, right?
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (18:15):
No, you submit a song and then you get.
If you're a finalist, you godown and and perform.
Rachel Garcia (18:20):
It's like the Super Bowl in that town.
It was an kind of unbelievableexperience that we were sort of
warned about, but it was reallysomething to see it unfold over
two days.
Yeah, you submit songs and thenyou play your entries.
JPR (18:36):
and there's what Thu: there's 24 finalists and six
winners.
Nick Grizzle (18:40):
You mentioned that it was like the Super Bowl.
Can you walk us through thosecouple days?
Rachel Garcia (18:44):
Oh my gosh yeah.
So it's hot, it's like over 100.
And then so all of the theatersare outside.
The days that you perform are.
You're in an outdooramphitheater, so so is the
audience, so there's a realadvantage to going early in the
(19:05):
day.
Okay, kerrville, texas, and Ithink what I mean about the
Super Bowl is there's a lot ofsort of feverishness about this
competition, both among thepeople who've made it into the
24 and among the peopleattending.
(19:27):
It has a really long legacy,and I remember sitting in the
audience watching my fellowparticipants and seeing everyone
around me had paper and penciland they were marking notes on
their, on their sheet of paper,and sort of grading the songs as
(19:47):
we were, as I was watchingpeople play.
Thu Tran (19:50):
And, to be clear, there are judges.
The audience is not judging,but they are taking notes as if
they are.
Rachel Garcia (19:56):
Yeah, there's a bit of like a leaderboard
feeling and I remember sitting,you know, the people around me
not knowing that I was going tobe performing and watching this
happen, and it just sort of thepressure was just sort of
mounting in that way.
I also knew that we were likeday two at the end of the day
and so I was like, oh no,everyone's going to be so tired,
(20:17):
they would have maybe alreadyslotted in their six, you know,
in their minds so we'd have tolike essentially unseat someone
from like the six potentialwinners they were holding in
their minds.
Thu Tran (20:31):
This is also to say like it's like the Super Bowl,
because I know nothing aboutsports or athleticism, so that's
probably as close to acompetitive sports game as I'll
ever get to compete.
Abby Posner (20:43):
It's like a dog show.
I'm closer.
Thu Tran (20:46):
I will.
I have more chance of competingin a dog show than in a Super
Bowl.
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (20:50):
And yet the other part of that and I
know it's you know there areother contests that also have
this, that are around events, soyou have a bunch of songwriters
coming together and you knowthe community aspect of of them.
You know, like also in Colorado, like the Rocky Mountain Folk
(21:11):
Festival or the Telluridefestivals that have these events
and so a lot of chance to meetother songwriters, to kind of.
You know you're competingagainst each other but I'm
wondering, has it hadexperiences that sort of made
you where that community aspectof it was meaningful, where you
sort of feel like, well, this ismy, my tribe, you know, make
(21:35):
connections that are that turnout to be something that that
you know you come back to inanother way, outside of the
contest?
Thu Tran (21:45):
Yeah, I think like to contrast that what Rachel is
describing, we stayed at theKerrville Folk Festival for a
week after the competition andit was that was the whole thing
for us.
Like to be able to sit around acampfire, Like it was such a
stark contrast to like feelingthat amount of adrenaline and
(22:08):
stuff about that comp, thecompetitive aspect of it.
It just felt so antithetical tomusic.
And then, once we were sorelieved, once it was over, and
then the week after, sittingaround a campfire with all of
the other you know competitionquote unquote and just like
enjoying their songs, playingmusic together, jamming on each
(22:29):
other's songs, learning eachother's songs, playing covers
together, Like I was like, ohyeah, that's that's the point,
Like that's so much the value ofthis.
Nick Grizzle (22:39):
Do you feel that that community aspect as well
within?
You know the songwritingcompetition community.
Do you do you ever chat withother people who participated in
them?
Or you know trade tips orhorror stories or anything like
that?
Abby Posner (22:57):
I think that what Rachel and two are talking about
is like being in person withpeople and and seeing them live
and having an experiencetogether.
I've I've only said I havesubmitted to Kerrville and I've
submitted to, I think, the newsong competition and haven't
(23:20):
gotten in.
But I think that there's theonly thing I can compare it to
is like getting a showcase at,you know, like Americana Fest,
like we had a showcase inNashville and we got to meet
other showcase artists and havethat kind of bond, um.
Or or having a showcase at FolkAlliance, which, which we do
this year as well, um, becauseyou're in person and you're
(23:43):
you're like, you're just, you'rein a space together and you're
getting to know each other andyou're playing music and you're
supporting each other.
And I think that the differenceis is the ones that uh, this
recent one that we won, it wasonline and you know we're not in
a space together and likecelebrating and um, meeting
other people in other categoriesin person.
(24:04):
So I think the in person effectis very special with Kerrville
and uh new song and these other,you know, performing
competitions.
Nick Grizzle (24:13):
Do you ever get feedback from uh, you know the
judges or or anything in thesecompetitions?
I mean?
Abby Posner (24:20):
yeah, there was one time I got feedback from, I
think, the internationalacoustic songwriting competition
, which I was like a runner upfor Um, and yeah, there was.
There was some goodconstructive criticism and also
things that they really liked.
I think for that one, but Idon't.
I don't actually know if we gotfeedback on the the USA
songwriting competition.
Thu Tran (24:42):
I think there was one um competition through Nashville
Songwriters Association um thatdid have a panel and they gave
anonymous feedback and it wasinteresting.
Specific to that, it was aNashville based uh competition
it was, but it was only onlinesubmission so anybody could
(25:04):
submit, but you really got us.
I think to me feedback saysjust as much about the feedback
giver as the feedback receiver,and so, like it was really
interesting to hear whatNashville songwriters like
valued and like they were reallyum looking for, like stronger
choruses, stronger hooks andlike the type of folk
(25:28):
storytelling that our music ismostly based around.
You know, I would, you know,even like the strongest of
choruses that I think it's likeit's it's not catchy enough for
them, and so that was reallyinteresting feedback to hear
another person's perspective of,but their perspective also
being really informed by the,the sliver of the industry that
(25:51):
they are experts in, you know.
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (25:52):
Well, I wonder, uh, talking about having
that, um, credential, and Ihave to say that's it is very
meaningful, and there's thisbasic reality that there are a
zillion songwriters out thereand you know, if you have that,
that stamp does mean something.
You know, my John Lennonsongwriting contest win was in
2008.
It's still right at the top ofmy bio.
(26:14):
You know, in, in, in talkingabout the value of, of having
that sort of credential, arethere specific things that you
feel like doors that have openedfor you a gig that you've
gotten, a connection that you'vemade that has happened in part
as a result of of this, or isthat just too hard to trace?
Abby Posner (26:34):
I think it's like unseen stuff.
Like you know, I put out analbum recently, uh, had a PR
campaign, a radio campaign, thiswin, you know, like there's all
these different things kind ofhappening simultaneously and you
don't know if it's because ofthis win or it's because, oh hey
, I heard this one song on theradio.
(26:54):
Um, but I think it's.
It's kind of like when you putsomething into the world, you
know it's this kind of whirlwindof activity starts to happen
around it, whether it's veryminuscule or not, like the word
of mouth, whatever it is.
So I do wonder sometimes well,why did I get that opportunity?
(27:15):
Was it because of the of thewin?
Why am I booking that festivalnow?
Is it because they saw that?
But they won't?
Ever I haven't had somebody saydirectly hey, abby, I saw that
you won the USA SongwritingCompetition.
Will you come and play, youknow, mild music or whatever
festival it might be.
I just think that there's like,whenever you this is what I
(27:39):
encourage artists to do is justlike keep putting things out
there.
There's, it creates movement insome way.
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (27:45):
Maybe it's really it's just getting
past that you know that gate,where then somebody's gonna
decide to dig in a little deeper.
I mean, whatever happens isgonna be based on your music,
you know, not based on acredential itself, right?
Abby Posner (28:01):
Yeah, I mean it's unfortunate.
I think right now we're livingin a time where streaming is so
prominent.
People look at Spotify playsand they look at followers and
they like that's how they judgeif you're good enough or not.
But yeah, there is something tobe said for all of these things
.
If you have that as acredential, I think that it
certainly doesn't hurt.
(28:21):
I just don't know if that's whyI've gotten certain
opportunities.
I'm not sure.
Rachel Garcia (28:27):
I think I relate to what you're saying around.
It sort of whips up some energy.
We also haven't had like reallydirect feedback that it's like.
This is why we often think oflike the main goal of a gig that
we have is to get another gigfrom that gig, and it's sort of
(28:51):
just by putting yourself intothose situations and sort of
engaging with it, it I don'tknow it's it kind of opens this
like air stream of more things,but I don't know that there has
been like a direct pointed boost.
Thu Tran (29:11):
Yeah, and I think about that.
It isn't like some.
There's like some marketingadage where it's like it takes
people like three times ofseeing something to recognize it
or legitimize it.
And I feel like puttingyourself, even if you're a
finalist and you don't win.
There's these blasts of theselittle cycles of like, well, the
new song finalists areannounced, and then it's the
(29:35):
competition, and then it's thewinner is announced and you're
kind of lumped in and I kind ofimagine a mysterious listener
out there being like the singerand the songwriter huh who?
And then a month later thesinger and the songwriter with
the curvil, and then they'relike God, keep hearing about the
singer and the songwriter whothe heck are they?
(29:55):
And I would hope that somebeing kind of looped into that,
that those little cycles, justhelps to kind of subconsciously
enter into people's minds.
Rachel Garcia (30:07):
I also feel like it sort of gives your fans that
have been with you, those truefans, something to be really
excited about.
You know it's January and sofor the last decade there's been
like the tiny desk right thatwe often send something in for,
and we've been sort of noticedby the tiny desk like a couple
(30:29):
of times, like into, like a topfive nature, like outdoor
They'll do like a feature.
Yeah, some feature, butobviously not a winner, and
we'll sort of send that out aslike here's this new song that
we've submitted for this.
But I think in sort of techtranslation, people think of our
(30:56):
fans that we've won.
So there's always a couple ofpeople that write us and they're
like I love it, I'm so excited,like I knew it, congratulations
, I knew it and we try tocorrect them.
But it's this really sweetthing of like oh, I've hitched
my wagon to the right band andsort of like this is my team and
(31:20):
so I don't know, there's a bitof like a boost for everyone
that's with you, like I knowthat, like my mom, when this
happens, she's really lifted.
You know, like it just sort ofit creates this.
I just think of like airplanewing lift like around everyone
that's sort of supporting you islike really pumped about these
(31:41):
little things, however littlethey might be.
It makes them feel like theyinvested in the right place, I
think.
Abby (31:48):
super well said.
Abby Posner (31:50):
I totally agree with that.
I think that it's like you sendout a mailing list with the
announcement and people are like, oh my gosh, amazing, we knew
it, like we've been followingyou since 2010 or whatever, and
they get so pumped because theyare exactly like Rachel said,
like you're along for the ridewith this band and you've seen
(32:10):
them through highs and lows andit's just like a win for them.
I love that.
It's so true.
I felt that I felt so much loveand I felt so lifted up by my
fans when I announced this, youknow.
Nick Grizzle (32:22):
That's the end of part one.
The conversation continues onour Patreon page.
The Acoustic Guitar podcast isbrought to you by the team at
Acoustic Guitar Magazine.
I'm your host, nick Grizzle,joined for this episode by
Jeffrey Pepper Rogers.
The Acoustic Guitar podcast isdirected and edited by Joey
Lusterman.
Tony Gonzalez is our producer.
Executive producers are LyzyLusterman and Stephanie Campos
(32:43):
Dal Broi.
Our theme song was composed byAdam Pearlmutter and performed
for this episode by Thu Tran.
If you enjoy this podcast andwant to support us, visit our
Patreon page at patreoncom,slash acoustic guitar plus or
find the link in the show notesfor this episode.
As a supporter, you'll haveaccess to exclusive bonus
episodes, along with otherspecial perks and if you're
(33:04):
already a patron.
Thank you so much for yoursupport.
Welcome to the Acoustic Guitar Podcast.
I'm your host, Nick Grizzle,joined by co-host Jeffrey Pepper
Rogers, who, you may know, wonthe 2008 John Lennon Songwriting
Contest with his country tuneFly.
This episode is all aboutsongwriting competitions.
We're joined by Abby Posner,Rachel Garcia, and Thu Tran.
(01:04):
Abby Posner has been a workingmusician in Los Angeles for the
past 18 years.
She is the grand prize winnerof the 2023 USA Songwriting
Competition with William HCarpenter for their song Get
Loud.
Rachel Garcia and Thu Tranwrite, record, and perform
together as The Singer and theSongwriter.
They won the West CoastSongwriters International Song
(01:28):
Contest for their song the Artof Missing You.
Our candid roundtable discussionexplores the impact contests
have on musicians' careers, thehighs and lows of participating
in these events and what role,if any, competition plays in the
creative process.
Be sure to check out the linksin our show notes to learn more
about our guests and their music.
(01:48):
You'll also find the link tosupport the Acoustic Guitar
Podcast on Patreon, that'spatreon dot com slash
acousticguitarplus.
If you can't make a pledge atthis time, you can also support
the show by leaving a review onApple Podcasts.
Thanks for listening and forchipping in if you can.
We begin with Jeffrey PepperRogers asking Abby Posner why
(02:09):
she started entering songwritingcompetitions.
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (02:11):
What was your goal when you started to
enter contests?
What were you hoping for, Imean, aside from the obvious
which is to win?
But what were you aiming toaccomplish?
Abby Posner (02:24):
Yeah, so I've been writing music for a long time.
I've been at this for a littleover 15 years and I never really
even thought to apply for thesethings.
To be honest, I was reallyfocused on touring and I was
really focused on sync licensingand so I honestly didn't even
(02:47):
really think to go this routeuntil I first applied the John
Lennon Songwriting Competitionand then I just thought, well,
why not, it's just an extrabonus.
So I never have written songsspecifically for songwriting
competitions and that'ssomething that's.
It's almost like you have tochange your mind frame a little
(03:10):
bit, almost like writing songsfor sync licensing.
I write songs from the heart asan artist, and then when I'm
writing songs for briefs formusic supervisors in sync
placements, it's kind of adifferent.
I'm writing from a differentplace.
So I never really thought towrite specifically for a contest
(03:30):
.
Yeah, but it just so happensthat this last song that I wrote
with my co-writer, WillCarpenter, won the USA
Songwriting Competition and wewere specifically writing
because it was a cause we werevery passionate about and it was
art to raise awareness and tobring to make sure that people
(03:57):
felt heard and seen that weren't.
Nick Grizzle (04:01):
So was that written specifically for the
competition?
Abby Posner (04:04):
No, not at all.
We had no intention of winningany prizes.
We were writing kind of with alittle bit of a sync.
He's one of my co-writers Iwrite licensing music with, but
we really just want.
We were feeling a lot of rageat the time.
This was after Roe v Wade, youknow, got overturned and we both
(04:26):
just sat down and wrote a song.
Nick Grizzle (04:29):
And Rachel and Thu , how about you?
Rachel Garcia (04:31):
We've always been independent musicians.
It's always just been the twoof us.
So I think one of theintentions of submitting for
these competitions was to feelsupported, was to garner support
(04:51):
from a larger institution.
We've always felt a bit stuckto sort of move our career
forward.
Like, as we grow as artists,our career has often not
followed, and so I think we sawit as one of the avenues to gain
(05:14):
outside support.
So it wasn't just the two of usreally hustling, but just
getting this like outside and, Ithink, also some validation
from the industry and from folkmusic.
It's sort of this like outsidestamp that says we actually like
(05:35):
, approve of these two peopleand we think that they're good,
and so that sort of.
.
.
It's just sort of like on yourwebsite, you know this little
mark, or it's on your socialmedia, and I think when people
are booking you, even if theydon't know what the competition
is, they sort of have this likeoutside, institutional
validation of like 'we approveof these two people, you can
(05:58):
trust them,' and so I think Ithink we were searching for that
as well.
Nick Grizzle (06:05):
How do you pick which songs to enter?
If you're not writingspecifically for this contest,
say any given contest, how doyou choose which song?
Is there something inparticular about a song that
kind of stands out as this wouldbe good for a competition?
Abby Posner (06:21):
Yeah, I think that you kind of go through, at least
for me, I go through my albumand I think about what's the
hook, what's the catchiest,biggest hook?
I also think about genre andwhich, because I write a lot of
different genres in my on myalbums and so I'm thinking, well
, what's gonna be like thebiggest thing that can grab
(06:44):
somebody's ear and make themwant more?
And I'm really specificallyfocusing in on choruses, making
sure that it's a little bit ofan anthem, something that is an
earworm.
The last song that Will and Isubmitted is a very big, almost
anthem piece.
(07:05):
We've been submitting it forsports games and arenas and I
think that that was somethingthat perhaps caught the ear of
the contest was that it was big,it had a theme, it had a
message and there it was very.
.
.
You know, we both produced itand we both kind of added.
(07:28):
I added a more organic, naturalelement to that production,
while Will took the reins andadded more of an electronic feel
.
And I think that when you worktogether as a team it really
boosts your chances, because I'ma lone wolf producer normally
and I just he just makes mesound better because he's a
different person and he'sapproaching music in a different
(07:50):
way.
So I think it's this song one,because it was a collaboration
of two very different minds.
Nick Grizzle (07:59):
Yeah, and that's Get Loud.
Was that one right?
Rachel Garcia (08:03):
Abby
Yeah, "gGet Loud.
I relate to it.
Abby shared.
A lot goes into it a lot ofconversations about what they
would like, what they wouldrespond to, what the specific
audience in that region mightrespond to, for instance, like
the Curville Folk Festival isgonna be like a really different
choice than something that'snational.
(08:24):
I think for us we definitelychoose what we think is our best
song Songs that we wrote almostkind of split, so songs that
feel like we both had a heavyhand in, and then, I think,
songs that are general enoughthat people can sort of overlay
their own story and life ontothe meaning of this song, and
(08:46):
then specific enough that it'slike interesting.
So we call that in our band, wecall that telescoping.
So a band, so a song thatreally has that like granular
detail, we call it thinginess,like the stuff and the details
of a song, so someone's reallyinterested, but also like a
general enough message that itcould fit many people's like
(09:08):
lives and stories.
Abby Posner (09:10):
I love that so much .
I totally agree with you onthat, Rachel.
That's like that's, and that'salso just an incredible thing
for sync.
You know, like if you haveuniversal lyrics that are kind
of like we don't really knowwhat the song is about, even
though the writers are like,this is a very important message
to us.
It could mean something sodifferent to everyone, and I
really agree with what you saidthere for sure.
Thu Tran (09:31):
Oh, I was going to say that it's something I learned
from Rachel as a writer.
Rachel's a poet and that, likeI think the kind of anthemic
stuff is like what I would havealways logically been like, oh,
something really catchy is whatpeople are going to like.
But I've learned from Racheland her writing is so specific.
(09:52):
I'm always like that's sospecific, like no one's who's
going to relate to that, butit's -without getting kind of
too like shop talky about it-like there's something about
thinking.
When you're talking about, like, choosing a song for the
songwriting competition, you'reup against a bunch of people,
right, if it's an onlinesubmission, then it's tons more
(10:14):
people.
But like, all these writers arewriting songs and sometimes
it's that really specific momentof the lyric-- that's really
what differentiates you.
So it's they're never going toremember the title or whatever.
But if there's some detail inthere, they're like oh yeah,
it's that song and it's got likean egg in it.
You know, like that's allthat's needed to be, like that
(10:35):
kind of sifts to the top.
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (10:36):
Yeah, I was just going to add from my
own experience, because I, afterwriting songs for several
decades, I had this feelingabout entering the John Lennon
Songwriting Contest and I woundup winning for this song.
But there was this veryspecific feeling that I had
about that song, that most ofthe stuff that I had written
(11:00):
felt very tied to myidiosyncratic style as a
guitarist, as a singer, andthere was something about this
song that I wrote that felt morelike elemental, like I could
hear a bunch of people maybegrabbing it and singing it a
little bit more.
I don't know it's.
(11:22):
It's it's related to theuniversal element that you're
talking about, but it's alsoabout, maybe, something that
other people could perform toand I was like, ok, I'm going to
enter this and it seemed to bea good instinct and, you know,
lightning struck on my firsttime out with that.
(11:42):
But it kind of.
It leads to another questionthat I wanted to ask you all to,
which is about categories,about genre.
So in my own experience, Iwound up entering the country
category, even though I've never, ever considered myself a
country songwriter.
But that song that's what itwas, you know, was based on a
(12:05):
fiddle tune, part of it and itwas.
You know it was based inbluegrass and country, but a lot
of times choosing a genre isdifferent.
I mean there's folk and there'sAmericana, and there's singer-
songwriter.
I mean, songs can be looked atin so many ways.
So how do you figure whereyou're going to mean, along with
(12:29):
choosing the song, what box areyou going to put it in?
Abby Posner (12:32):
Yeah, that's a really good question.
I think that's where I strugglesometimes because I am so
inspired by.
I mean, I love music, period.
I just love all music and I'mso influenced by soul and
Americana and folk and rock andpop and sometimes I'll just
splatter that all on a page.
(12:53):
This song that Will and I wrotehappened to be a very rock kind
of alternative song, which is alittle bit outside of my
category.
I tend to write more folk andAmericana.
We did have a little tinge of abanjo in there, but Will was
the one that submitted and andit was submitted under
(13:15):
alternative rock and I wouldhave never and none of my other
songs would fit that category.
So it was.
It was wise that he submittedunder that, you know.
So it was, yeah, that.
I think that was.
That was part of the winningdeal.
If we had done Americana, Idon't know, I don't know that we
(13:35):
would have won.
Thu Tran (13:36):
That's such a great point, Abby.
I think it made me think.
I think one of the thingsyou're choosing in choosing the
genre to compete in is to choosewho your competitors are,
because I feel like in some waysthis just makes me think like
music is such a hard thing tomake compete, like it's kind of
(14:01):
antithetical to how I feel aboutmusic.
and I think about it sort oflike it's like the Westminster
dog show, because, all dogs aregood dogs.
How pure they are in theircategory is not why I love dogs,
you know.
(14:26):
So to like, judge it on, likeit's for it's like.
Nick Grizzle (14:29):
That's not the point, of dogs man.
Thu Tran (14:33):
And if I'm gonna like be labor that metaphor, I feel
like our music's like a mutt andit has no place winning any of
these things.
But if it's going to beconsidered, that's pretty nice
you know, yeah, yeah, it'swonderful.
Abby Posner (14:53):
I love that so much .
I really really love that.
We think of our song as a mutttoo, because it's a little bit
of everything you know well,those are the best dogs.
Those are the best dogs,although I do have a.
I have a purebred, I have abasset hound, but he is a rescue
, so don't judge there.
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (15:08):
I just wanted to double back to ask
when entering, because we'vemade a few references here to
the recordings and I knowcontests are different in terms
of whether they want a veryproduced recording or something
simpler or.
But how do you think about that?
You know, do you, do you feellike is a simple demo going to
(15:32):
be okay, maybe for some contest?
Do you feel like you wantsomething that's more really
studio release worthy?
Abby Posner (15:41):
For me.
I love producing and so I andthis is again, this is just my
own personal experience I don'tmake anything half I would.
I would personally never submitan unfinished demo.
I also just love the process ofproducing and I want to make it
(16:02):
as good as I possibly can and Ialways want to challenge myself
to be better on each song andon each album and I want to
challenge myself to grow as anartist and as a producer.
So personally, I steer awayfrom unfinished or just kind of
raw demos.
Some of the stuff that Iproduce in general is a little
bit raw, but it's on purpose,because I like that gritty, the
(16:25):
grittiness.
But I would, I would definitelyalways submit at least a final
mix, if not a final master, andthat's just.
That's just me.
Thu Tran (16:35):
I agree with that.
I think we've mostly onlysubmitted completed mastered
songs and I think it just and Iknow many competitions don't
require that and I think ifyou're treating it like a game
which kind of it is right it's acontest, that you're thinking
about the other players as welland it's just you want it to
(16:59):
hold up against other people whomight would be, you know,
submitting a fully finishedmastered thing, and so it might
not do your song that manyfavors.
But again, yeah, there areplenty of like great songs and
that lo-fi kind of demo qualityis part of its appeal.
But I try to put myself in thethe headspace of the judges if
(17:23):
they're listening back to, backto things you know, sometimes
it's like it's super quiet orit's grainy or it's just popping
noises and and that can get youout of the zone and yeah,
although some some of thecompetition I guess I'm thinking
in particularly like of theKerville, is you two Rachel and
and two you.
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (17:42):
You went down to Kerrville, right, you
were part of that competition,so they have.
I was actually just lookingover their, their, their contest
rules and they make this.
They say in all caps, I thinkyou know make sure the lyrics
are really clear and and theywant it and they're very strict
about it has to be two peoplemaximum, two people on stage
(18:03):
stripped down.
Nick Grizzle (18:05):
So, as I understand it, that whole
competition, kerville, is youdon't submit a song, you go and
you perform and then that's yourentry, right?
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (18:15):
No, you submit a song and then you get.
If you're a finalist, you godown and and perform.
Rachel Garcia (18:20):
It's like the Super Bowl in that town.
It was an kind of unbelievableexperience that we were sort of
warned about, but it was reallysomething to see it unfold over
two days.
Yeah, you submit songs and thenyou play your entries.
JPR (18:36):
and there's what Thu: there's 24 finalists and six
winners.
Nick Grizzle (18:40):
You mentioned that it was like the Super Bowl.
Can you walk us through thosecouple days?
Rachel Garcia (18:44):
Oh my gosh yeah.
So it's hot, it's like over 100.
And then so all of the theatersare outside.
The days that you perform are.
You're in an outdooramphitheater, so so is the
audience, so there's a realadvantage to going early in the
(19:05):
day.
Okay, kerrville, texas, and Ithink what I mean about the
Super Bowl is there's a lot ofsort of feverishness about this
competition, both among thepeople who've made it into the
24 and among the peopleattending.
(19:27):
It has a really long legacy,and I remember sitting in the
audience watching my fellowparticipants and seeing everyone
around me had paper and penciland they were marking notes on
their, on their sheet of paper,and sort of grading the songs as
(19:47):
we were, as I was watchingpeople play.
Thu Tran (19:50):
And, to be clear, there are judges.
The audience is not judging,but they are taking notes as if
they are.
Rachel Garcia (19:56):
Yeah, there's a bit of like a leaderboard
feeling and I remember sitting,you know, the people around me
not knowing that I was going tobe performing and watching this
happen, and it just sort of thepressure was just sort of
mounting in that way.
I also knew that we were likeday two at the end of the day
and so I was like, oh no,everyone's going to be so tired,
(20:17):
they would have maybe alreadyslotted in their six, you know,
in their minds so we'd have tolike essentially unseat someone
from like the six potentialwinners they were holding in
their minds.
Thu Tran (20:31):
This is also to say like it's like the Super Bowl,
because I know nothing aboutsports or athleticism, so that's
probably as close to acompetitive sports game as I'll
ever get to compete.
Abby Posner (20:43):
It's like a dog show.
I'm closer.
Thu Tran (20:46):
I will.
I have more chance of competingin a dog show than in a Super
Bowl.
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (20:50):
And yet the other part of that and I
know it's you know there areother contests that also have
this, that are around events, soyou have a bunch of songwriters
coming together and you knowthe community aspect of of them.
You know, like also in Colorado, like the Rocky Mountain Folk
(21:11):
Festival or the Telluridefestivals that have these events
and so a lot of chance to meetother songwriters, to kind of.
You know you're competingagainst each other but I'm
wondering, has it hadexperiences that sort of made
you where that community aspectof it was meaningful, where you
sort of feel like, well, this ismy, my tribe, you know, make
(21:35):
connections that are that turnout to be something that that
you know you come back to inanother way, outside of the
contest?
Thu Tran (21:45):
Yeah, I think like to contrast that what Rachel is
describing, we stayed at theKerrville Folk Festival for a
week after the competition andit was that was the whole thing
for us.
Like to be able to sit around acampfire, Like it was such a
stark contrast to like feelingthat amount of adrenaline and
(22:08):
stuff about that comp, thecompetitive aspect of it.
It just felt so antithetical tomusic.
And then, once we were sorelieved, once it was over, and
then the week after, sittingaround a campfire with all of
the other you know competitionquote unquote and just like
enjoying their songs, playingmusic together, jamming on each
(22:29):
other's songs, learning eachother's songs, playing covers
together, Like I was like, ohyeah, that's that's the point,
Like that's so much the value ofthis.
Nick Grizzle (22:39):
Do you feel that that community aspect as well
within?
You know the songwritingcompetition community.
Do you do you ever chat withother people who participated in
them?
Or you know trade tips orhorror stories or anything like
that?
Abby Posner (22:57):
I think that what Rachel and two are talking about
is like being in person withpeople and and seeing them live
and having an experiencetogether.
I've I've only said I havesubmitted to Kerrville and I've
submitted to, I think, the newsong competition and haven't
(23:20):
gotten in.
But I think that there's theonly thing I can compare it to
is like getting a showcase at,you know, like Americana Fest,
like we had a showcase inNashville and we got to meet
other showcase artists and havethat kind of bond, um.
Or or having a showcase at FolkAlliance, which, which we do
this year as well, um, becauseyou're in person and you're
(23:43):
you're like, you're just, you'rein a space together and you're
getting to know each other andyou're playing music and you're
supporting each other.
And I think that the differenceis is the ones that uh, this
recent one that we won, it wasonline and you know we're not in
a space together and likecelebrating and um, meeting
other people in other categoriesin person.
(24:04):
So I think the in person effectis very special with Kerrville
and uh new song and these other,you know, performing
competitions.
Nick Grizzle (24:13):
Do you ever get feedback from uh, you know the
judges or or anything in thesecompetitions?
I mean?
Abby Posner (24:20):
yeah, there was one time I got feedback from, I
think, the internationalacoustic songwriting competition
, which I was like a runner upfor Um, and yeah, there was.
There was some goodconstructive criticism and also
things that they really liked.
I think for that one, but Idon't.
I don't actually know if we gotfeedback on the the USA
songwriting competition.
Thu Tran (24:42):
I think there was one um competition through Nashville
Songwriters Association um thatdid have a panel and they gave
anonymous feedback and it wasinteresting.
Specific to that, it was aNashville based uh competition
it was, but it was only onlinesubmission so anybody could
(25:04):
submit, but you really got us.
I think to me feedback saysjust as much about the feedback
giver as the feedback receiver,and so, like it was really
interesting to hear whatNashville songwriters like
valued and like they were reallyum looking for, like stronger
choruses, stronger hooks andlike the type of folk
(25:28):
storytelling that our music ismostly based around.
You know, I would, you know,even like the strongest of
choruses that I think it's likeit's it's not catchy enough for
them, and so that was reallyinteresting feedback to hear
another person's perspective of,but their perspective also
being really informed by the,the sliver of the industry that
(25:51):
they are experts in, you know.
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (25:52):
Well, I wonder, uh, talking about having
that, um, credential, and Ihave to say that's it is very
meaningful, and there's thisbasic reality that there are a
zillion songwriters out thereand you know, if you have that,
that stamp does mean something.
You know, my John Lennonsongwriting contest win was in
2008.
It's still right at the top ofmy bio.
(26:14):
You know, in, in, in talkingabout the value of, of having
that sort of credential, arethere specific things that you
feel like doors that have openedfor you a gig that you've
gotten, a connection that you'vemade that has happened in part
as a result of of this, or isthat just too hard to trace?
Abby Posner (26:34):
I think it's like unseen stuff.
Like you know, I put out analbum recently, uh, had a PR
campaign, a radio campaign, thiswin, you know, like there's all
these different things kind ofhappening simultaneously and you
don't know if it's because ofthis win or it's because, oh hey
, I heard this one song on theradio.
(26:54):
Um, but I think it's.
It's kind of like when you putsomething into the world, you
know it's this kind of whirlwindof activity starts to happen
around it, whether it's veryminuscule or not, like the word
of mouth, whatever it is.
So I do wonder sometimes well,why did I get that opportunity?
(27:15):
Was it because of the of thewin?
Why am I booking that festivalnow?
Is it because they saw that?
But they won't?
Ever I haven't had somebody saydirectly hey, abby, I saw that
you won the USA SongwritingCompetition.
Will you come and play, youknow, mild music or whatever
festival it might be.
I just think that there's like,whenever you this is what I
(27:39):
encourage artists to do is justlike keep putting things out
there.
There's, it creates movement insome way.
Jeffrey Pepper Rodgers (27:45):
Maybe it's really it's just getting
past that you know that gate,where then somebody's gonna
decide to dig in a little deeper.
I mean, whatever happens isgonna be based on your music,
you know, not based on acredential itself, right?
Abby Posner (28:01):
Yeah, I mean it's unfortunate.
I think right now we're livingin a time where streaming is so
prominent.
People look at Spotify playsand they look at followers and
they like that's how they judgeif you're good enough or not.
But yeah, there is something tobe said for all of these things
.
If you have that as acredential, I think that it
certainly doesn't hurt.
(28:21):
I just don't know if that's whyI've gotten certain
opportunities.
I'm not sure.
Rachel Garcia (28:27):
I think I relate to what you're saying around.
It sort of whips up some energy.
We also haven't had like reallydirect feedback that it's like.
This is why we often think oflike the main goal of a gig that
we have is to get another gigfrom that gig, and it's sort of
(28:51):
just by putting yourself intothose situations and sort of
engaging with it, it I don'tknow it's it kind of opens this
like air stream of more things,but I don't know that there has
been like a direct pointed boost.
Thu Tran (29:11):
Yeah, and I think about that.
It isn't like some.
There's like some marketingadage where it's like it takes
people like three times ofseeing something to recognize it
or legitimize it.
And I feel like puttingyourself, even if you're a
finalist and you don't win.
There's these blasts of theselittle cycles of like, well, the
new song finalists areannounced, and then it's the
(29:35):
competition, and then it's thewinner is announced and you're
kind of lumped in and I kind ofimagine a mysterious listener
out there being like the singerand the songwriter huh who?
And then a month later thesinger and the songwriter with
the curvil, and then they'relike God, keep hearing about the
singer and the songwriter whothe heck are they?
(29:55):
And I would hope that somebeing kind of looped into that,
that those little cycles, justhelps to kind of subconsciously
enter into people's minds.
Rachel Garcia (30:07):
I also feel like it sort of gives your fans that
have been with you, those truefans, something to be really
excited about.
You know it's January and sofor the last decade there's been
like the tiny desk right thatwe often send something in for,
and we've been sort of noticedby the tiny desk like a couple
(30:29):
of times, like into, like a topfive nature, like outdoor
They'll do like a feature.
Yeah, some feature, butobviously not a winner, and
we'll sort of send that out aslike here's this new song that
we've submitted for this.
But I think in sort of techtranslation, people think of our
(30:56):
fans that we've won.
So there's always a couple ofpeople that write us and they're
like I love it, I'm so excited,like I knew it, congratulations
, I knew it and we try tocorrect them.
But it's this really sweetthing of like oh, I've hitched
my wagon to the right band andsort of like this is my team and
(31:20):
so I don't know, there's a bitof like a boost for everyone
that's with you, like I knowthat, like my mom, when this
happens, she's really lifted.
You know, like it just sort ofit creates this.
I just think of like airplanewing lift like around everyone
that's sort of supporting you islike really pumped about these
(31:41):
little things, however littlethey might be.
It makes them feel like theyinvested in the right place, I
think.
Abby (31:48):
super well said.
Abby Posner (31:50):
I totally agree with that.
I think that it's like you sendout a mailing list with the
announcement and people are like, oh my gosh, amazing, we knew
it, like we've been followingyou since 2010 or whatever, and
they get so pumped because theyare exactly like Rachel said,
like you're along for the ridewith this band and you've seen
(32:10):
them through highs and lows andit's just like a win for them.
I love that.
It's so true.
I felt that I felt so much loveand I felt so lifted up by my
fans when I announced this, youknow.
Nick Grizzle (32:22):
That's the end of part one.
The conversation continues onour Patreon page.
The Acoustic Guitar podcast isbrought to you by the team at
Acoustic Guitar Magazine.
I'm your host, nick Grizzle,joined for this episode by
Jeffrey Pepper Rogers.
The Acoustic Guitar podcast isdirected and edited by Joey
Lusterman.
Tony Gonzalez is our producer.
Executive producers are LyzyLusterman and Stephanie Campos
(32:43):
Dal Broi.
Our theme song was composed byAdam Pearlmutter and performed
for this episode by Thu Tran.
If you enjoy this podcast andwant to support us, visit our
Patreon page at patreoncom,slash acoustic guitar plus or
find the link in the show notesfor this episode.
As a supporter, you'll haveaccess to exclusive bonus
episodes, along with otherspecial perks and if you're
(33:04):
already a patron.
Thank you so much for yoursupport.
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