Producers Aaron Benward and Cliff Young

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Act One Podcast - Episode 38 - Interview with Producers, Aaron Benward and Cliff Young.

Aaron Benward comes to Watershed Motion Pictures by way of the music business where he started his career as one half of the award-winning father/son duo Aaron Jeoffrey. He followed that up as the founding member of the 3 time CMA and ACM nominated duo Blue County. Aaron’s creative skills continue into his acting career where he can be seen recently in the Netflix Original series “The Ranch”, Sony’s “The Song” and City on a Hill’s “Acts of God.” He joined the Watershed team by packaging and negotiating a worldwide distribution deal for The Watershed Short Films Collection.

Cliff Young began his career as a founding member of Caedmon's Call. The band made 16 albums, sold over two million records and toured 48 states over 15 years. Cliff also served on the board of the Dalit Freedom Network, which helps the “untouchables” of India. Cliff began working full time for Second Baptist Church in 2006 as the Media Director. Cliff oversees the worldwide broadcast The Winning Walk and also has produced commercials, documentaries, and short films for the past 11 years.

GOD. FAMILY. FOOTBALL. features the rich, diverse personal stories of Evangel’s players, coaching staff, and the broader Shreveport community, set against the dramatic backdrop of the 2022 Louisiana high school football season. With the perennial high school football powerhouse—14 state championships in the last 20 years—coming off their worst season in school history, redemption is everyone’s goal. Pastor Denny Duron has returned to the head coaching position to lead this talented group of kids, with dreams of playing in college and the NFL, into prominence on the field, while molding them into future leaders off of it.  As the team faces struggle and triumph on and off the field, they are united by coach Duron’s formula for success: “God first, family second, and football third.”

GOD. FAMILY. FOOTBALL. hails from Propagate and is executive produced by Ben Silverman, Howard T. Owens, and Drew Buckley. The series was created and executive produced by Aaron Benward of Watershed. Jared Goetz of Ascending Media Group, NFL quarterback Russell Wilson in association with Why Not You Productions and Rob Gehring serve as executive producers. Cliff Young, Cody Bess, Scott Brignac, Chelsea Friedland and Matt Woolsey serve as co-executive producers.

GOD. FAMILY. FOOTBALL. is available to stream beginning September 1st on Amazon’s Freevee channel.

Trailer: https://youtu.be/dqUkf2DikBA?si=uOHPX4bGr-2NlWZc

The Act One Podcast provides insight and inspiration on the business and craft of Hollywood from a Christian perspective.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:03):
Look, myself, my partners, we are men of faith.
We know the story we want totell.
We are partnering oftentimeswith production companies,
people on our crew, things thatdon't necessarily have the same
lens, right?
So how do we shepherd what wethe story that we want to tell?
And that is to be as truthfuland as honest as possible.

James Duke (00:31):
This is the Act One Podcast.
I'm your host, James Duke.
Thanks for listening.
Do us a favor, and if you likewhat you hear, please subscribe
to the podcast and leave areview.
My guests today are producersAaron Benward and Cliff Young.
Both Aaron and Cliff came toprominence in the Christian
music scene in the 1990s, andnow they are filmmakers.

(00:53):
Aaron and Cliff joined forceswith filmmakers Scott Brignack
and Cody Best to launch theirfilm company Watershed Motion
Pictures, which is a collectiveof forward-thinking filmmakers
passionately dedicated toweaving redemptive narratives
that inspire change, evokeemotion, and ignite the
imagination.
Their latest project is the newshow God Family Football, a new

(01:17):
docuseries that features therich, diverse personal stories
of high school football players,coaching staff, and the broader
Shereepport community setagainst the dramatic backdrop of
the 2022 Louisiana high schoolfootball season.
God Family Football is availableto stream beginning September
1st on Amazon's Freevie channel.
I really enjoyed my conversationwith Aaron and Cliff, and I

(01:41):
think you will too.
Enjoy.
Aaron and Cliff, welcome to theAct One podcast.
It's great to have both of youhere.

SPEAKER_00 (01:49):
Thank you.
Thanks, man.
I'm excited for what we're gonnasee in Act Two and Act Three.

James Duke (01:54):
That's right.
Yeah, yeah.
The Act Two and the Act Threepodcast.
Very exciting.
Um by the way, where am Ispeaking to you guys from?
Are you guys are you both inNashville?
Where are you guys from?

SPEAKER_01 (02:07):
I'm in Houston right now.
And uh Aaron's in Nashville, Ithink, right?
Are you in Nashville?

SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
I'm in Los Angeles right now.

James Duke (02:14):
Oh he's in LA.
He's in LA with me.
Yeah, all right, very cool.
Do you do are do you split yourtime or do you mostly live here?
Do you mostly live where are youwhere do you hang out, Aaron?
Mostly.

SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
Yeah, so uh gosh, about 11 years ago, uh my wife
and kids and I moved to toBurbank, uh, and we lived in
Burbank for 10 years.
Uh our kids were in sixth grade,10th grade, and seniors in high
school.
Crazy times to take your kidsacross the but we did it, man.
We've been all always kind of anadventure type family, and so we

(02:46):
did, and then we recently a yearago moved back to Nashville.
So uh my wife and I now aregetting ready to celebrate 29
years of being married, andwe're empty nesters, and we have
a grand, our first grandbaby.
And dude, we're just living ourbest life between Nashville, LA,
and Houston.

James Duke (03:00):
So awesome! Congratulations, by the way, on
that.
That's awesome.
Hey, Clifford, you have youalways been a Houston boy?

SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
I have, yeah, I have since I mean I moved here when I
was about, I don't know, four orfive.
So I have always been here.
Now I've traveled for a longtime, so I I don't feel like
I've always been here, but uh uhI have.

James Duke (03:19):
Now, I there's so obviously there's people who are
listening to this podcast andthey're like, wait a second,
this says that you're talking toCliff Young and Aaron Benward,
and they're gonna recognizethese names from from music that
they might have listened to,well, at least for me in my
college years.
So when you say you traveled alot, Cliff, it's because you

(03:40):
were on tour, right?
For years with Cademan's Call.

SPEAKER_01 (03:43):
You were the you were the I was one of the I was
one of the singers, myself andmy wife, uh, who we started the
band back in 93.
And uh then also there's uhDerek sings as well.
And so uh we got a seven of us,so it's a small orchestra, but
yeah.
Traveled full-time for uh, Idon't know, 15 years, something

(04:05):
like that.

James Duke (04:06):
You guys did you tour you toured for 15 years?

SPEAKER_01 (04:08):
Yes.
Wow, a long, long time.

James Duke (04:11):
So that's and and for people who don't know you so
you now I'm in try, I'm tryingto help me clarify this.
So I have a solo album of yours,but you started with your dad,
is that right?

SPEAKER_00 (04:28):
I did, man, right out of high school.
Uh my dad was a gospel singergrowing up, and right out of
high school, I was like, he'slike, That's something we can do
with your life.
I said, Dad, I want to do whatyou do.
He goes, Oh my gosh, we gottapray.
And so anyway, we he just said,Man, look, why don't we go into
college?
Um, why don't you come travelwith me a little bit, see if you
even like being on the road andda-da-da.
And so that turned into mesinging one song with him in his

(04:50):
concerts, turned into you know,making albums together, and we
we were we were uh I think thefirst and only father-son duo in
Christian music in most genresto be to be exact, by Aaron
Jeffrey.
And so uh I was always singingwith my dad and wishing I could
sing cool music like Cliff andhis band.

James Duke (05:10):
Yeah, for us and you went so then you did it, so then
you um did you make a couple ofsolo albums?
Was that yeah?

SPEAKER_00 (05:17):
So um after uh my dad and I made four albums
together, and then I had anopportunity to make a solo
record, uh, and it came out to athundering applause of nothing,
landed just on its like a deadrat.
And um, from that point on afterthat, I actually had another
career.
I've had like nine lives, like acat, man.
Uh, I had uh a career in countrymusic, and I signed a record for

(05:38):
country music.
The duo is called Blue County,one of my close friends.
And we had some hits in countrymusic and toured for about five
years there.
So I've kind of had in theChristian world and in the
mainstream world, um, on themusic side of things.
And you grew up in Nashville?
I did.
So we moved.
Well, I met Cliff when we wereeight years old.
We started playing basketball uhtogether uh and became the best

(05:59):
of friends and still to thisday.
And um my dad was actually uh onthe staff at a church where that
at Cliff's dad's pastors andstill pastors called the Second
Baptist Church in Houston,Texas.
And um, and then my dad got tosign a record deal when I was a
freshman in high school, and sowe moved to Nashville then, and
so then it was Nashville.

James Duke (06:18):
Yeah, I lived uh my my one little brief connection
to you guys is I lived outsideof Houston when I was between
the ages of six and ten.
We lived in Alvin, Alvin, Texas.

SPEAKER_01 (06:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alvin and and then right next toPearland at uh yes, my dad
worked in Pareland.

James Duke (06:36):
A little different, but uh yeah, yeah, a little
different.
I remember we we would uh uh mydad took us a couple times to um
to camp in Galveston on thebeach, and um I remember that.
Remember spending the night Iwas a little kid, but uh yeah, I
I I I remember Alvin's claim tofame is it's the hometown of

(06:58):
Nolan Ryan.
That's how everyone in Texasknew it.

SPEAKER_01 (07:01):
Yep, that's true.
That's true.
And uh a friend of ours just didthat uh facing Nolan
documentary.

James Duke (07:09):
I I I really liked it, I watched it.

SPEAKER_01 (07:12):
Yeah, it was really good.

James Duke (07:13):
Yes, it was really good.
Um, so yeah, so Cliff, you uhAaron mentioned it.
You so basically both of youguys came from families where
both of your fathers were inministry, yes.
Um, and you, Cliff.
So your father is a verywell-known um pastor, he uh uh
second Baptist there in Houston.

(07:34):
Right.
Uh-huh.
And so I just want to kind ofstart there for both of you
guys, and we'll start with you,Cliff.
Um oh, what do you tell peopletoday in terms of what it was
like to grow up under kind ofthe Christian microscope of
being a pastor's kid at a largechurch, um, people knowing your

(07:58):
dad.
Um, what was what was it likegrowing up?
Was it was did faith come to youmore naturally or or or you
know, a lot of preacher kidstalked about, you know, faith,
they had to go find their theyhad to go find faith their own
way.
Just curious how it was for bothof you guys.

SPEAKER_01 (08:14):
Yeah, I mean, I I uh of course I was baptized and and
all of that when I was seven,um, in the church and all of
that.
But yeah, when when when I uhwent off to college, uh that was
really when I guess my faithkind of became my own.
It wasn't not really until then.
I mean, think about all thesermons, all of the Bible

(08:35):
lessons, all of everything thatI never heard in my life.
It wasn't until I got intocollege really on my own in my
dorm room that I really graspedthe gospel and it really uh
became my own.
But look, there's there'sgrowing up the way that I that I
did in the finish bowl, as Isay, um with everyone watching

(08:58):
all that.
I I'm sure I have many scars,seen and unseen uh from that.
And uh, you know, therapy isgreat.
I recommend it.
Uh so yeah, you know, it it I II don't I didn't know anything
different, but yeah, yeah.
I mean when you when you leaveand you're traveling you know

(09:21):
all over the country, you can beon the other side of the world,
and you still have that feelingthat people are watching you
because they know who you are,and they're whatever you you
know there's uh some somebaggage there.
I promise so yeah.

James Duke (09:36):
How about you, Aaron?
Uh you're because your dadobviously it was a pretty you
know, I mean, it's one thing tobe a pastor, but your dad was a
performer.
That's a whole other kind oflevel of scrutiny and people
looking and paying attention.

SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
Really interesting you said, James.
I mean, because the thing uhjust kind of hit me as I'm
thinking about it is that wordperformance.
And I think, you know, I couldtalk a long time about this
because of the journey for me infaith, you know.
On one hand, the the what I wasgiven fundamentally and learned
fundamentally uh in the church,uh I don't man, I I treasure and

(10:12):
don't take for granted becauseit really rooted me in the truth
of the word and truth of of whatit is, and it's alive and it's
it's it's breathing and it'smoving amongst us and all the
things.
However, you know, also thechurch really, really, I don't
know.
I shouldn't, I don't know howmuch credit I should give the
church.
Being raised in the church, Ithen took on this kind of

(10:34):
identity of okay, I gotta makesure everything looks right,
feels right, is right, saysright, da-da-da-da-da.
When um, and that became a amajor identity crisis for me as
I continued to grow up.
Um, and that felt like value, myvalue was completely immersed in
if I was performing right, if Igot it all right and looked

(10:55):
right and was successful and allthe things.
And honestly, James, I wanna itwas only about it was through
COVID, man, to be quite frank,that I got really, I got right
on my face before God said, God,I I I I I want to be honest
above all.
I want to be integrous aboveall, which means it doesn't
matter what I do, it's a matterof about who I am.
I began on this journey of uh ofidentity and really, really

(11:18):
accepting who I am, who I am inGod, who I am in Christ
specifically.
And that's changed everything.
And the peace that I that wetalk about so often, you know,
and quote, peace that passesunderstanding the whole thing, I
found when I surrendered that.
And um, so now, man, it's justthis beautiful daily journey of
giving everything and letletting God take care of it all

(11:38):
and just showing up and andgiving who I am to the world.
That's great.

James Duke (11:44):
Now, uh, so Aaron, you're you know, you're a dad.
Clifford, are you are you areyou a dad?

SPEAKER_01 (11:49):
Uh I got five.

James Duke (11:50):
Okay, so yeah, I'm I'm talking to I'm talking to a
couple of experts here.

SPEAKER_01 (11:54):
Yeah, I would say, yes.

James Duke (11:56):
What do you guys do do you do things?
I mean, of course you do thingsdifferently, but I'm curious,
what did you take from yourfathers in terms of how they
raised you as well-knownChristians in in certain spaces,
at least in Houston, right?
To kind of how you guys haveraised your kids.

(12:17):
Um, was there um were thereaspects where you were like,
Yeah, I'm not I'm not gonna dothat?
Or I was you where you werelike, no, no, no, this needs to
be a part of of how I raise mykids.

SPEAKER_01 (12:30):
Honestly, I I for me, I uh honestly, I think most
people do this in some way.
And I think I'm my parent has myparent as a reaction probably to
the way I was parented.
To be honest.
And some of that is good andprobably some of it is bad.

(12:54):
My my my dad is a very is a is avery kind of uh uh you know,
type A large he's the equivalentof four people when he's in the
room.
And uh so roaming uh uh that wayis is um you know it's tough in
a lot of ways.

(13:15):
But my dad, like Aaron justsaid, I I I mean, I I grew up in
the truth and I grew up with uhthe the scripture and the
knowledge of Christ and veryChrist in our home.
And that is that's that's reallythe most important thing,
honestly.
We talk about a lot ofpsychobabble and parenting.
Uh but I definitely so that's adefinitely a good thing.

(13:38):
But in my reaction, I think Ithink probably I'm I'm a very
permissive parent.
I'm uh pretty relaxed and funand all that kind of stuff.
So yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (13:51):
Yeah, I mean, I think I think you know, we all
uh if we're honest, take try totake the good things of our
parents, um, emphasize thosethings, and then also look at
the things that we maybe thatcauses trauma, that causes
wounds or whatever, because weall do it, we've all done it to
our kids.
And and hopefully be able to,you know, change that pattern in

(14:14):
our life and with our childrengenerationally.
Um my dad, man, he was he's he'sa creative man, he's he's a he's
a feeler.
And so what he one of the thingsthat I so thankful for is he was
very honest with me in our inour communication about you know
being a young, being a teenageand you know, being horny and
going through all the things wego through.

(14:35):
It wasn't a situation that youlet's not talk about that.
It was let's dive into that,yeah.
And uh consequently, that's beenone of the things that you know
we how we raised our our kiddosis is the there's nothing off
limits, man.
You know, let's go, you know,let's do life together.

James Duke (14:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I know.
I every day I I I I ask myself,boy, at the end of the day, I
go, Well, what can I do to screwup my kids today?
I think about what did I do ornot do?
What can I say or not say, youknow?
Yes.
Um, exactly.
So, you know, like I I as longas they can pay their own
therapy bill, I guess one day.

SPEAKER_01 (15:10):
Exactly.
Hey, I'm I rely on my wife forall that.
I, you know, yeah, I think shedo, I think she's doing a great
job.

James Duke (15:18):
Yes, I think all of our wives are doing great jobs.
That's really funny.
So I was really excited to talkto you guys today because
obviously I have this backgroundas a you know, as a fan of you
guys.
Like I said, I I remember um Iremember hearing bus driver,
right?
Like my freshman year in collegeor something, right?

(15:40):
Or sophomore year, right?
And it was just like, what isthis?
You know, this is cool, youknow.
And um so cool.
You guys, and you guys did thatcover to to to um to Rich
Mullins.
Anyway, I just right, and um soyou know, I've been a fan of you
guys, and like I said, I like Isaid, Aaron, I Aaron, I think I

(16:00):
think I could have sworn it wasyou, but maybe I'm wrong.
But I could have sworn I heard Ican't on I was my music was
shuffling the other day, and Icould have sworn I heard a
version.
Remember that old worship song,Shout to the Lord.
Yeah, that was my very swornthat was you.
Was that you?

SPEAKER_00 (16:16):
It was my very first relief in the solo artist.

James Duke (16:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So anyway, so obviously I have athis background.
I think a lot of people have thebackground of of uh of you guys
as fans and stuff, but you guyshave since transitioned from um
touring musicians and all andand and singer songwriters, you
guys have transitioned intofilmmakers, and um the name of

(16:40):
your company is WatershedProductions.
Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 (16:44):
Watershed Motion Pictures, yeah.

James Duke (16:45):
Sorry, what sorry, watershed motion pictures.
And um, you guys have been uhproducing some content.
Matter of fact, you havesomething coming out um soon.
Aaron, you want to uh tellpeople a little bit what that
is?
It's it's a new docuseries onAmazon.

SPEAKER_00 (16:59):
Yeah, man.
I'm this is this is uh wow, it'sa major passion project.
Um basically the backstory is umI've had a mentor since I was 12
years old.
Um I'm third I'm I'll be uh 50in September, so you can do the
math.
But his name is Denny Duron.
He is the the pastor, thechancellor, has been the head

(17:23):
football coach of a schoolcalled uh Evangel Christian
Academy, connected to ShreveportCommunity Church.
Well, I met him at 12 years old,he made a major made a major
impact on my life, and sincethen has been a very vocal part
of my life.
And um over the years and movinginto wanting to tell stories and
things, I've always had this inthe back of my mind and often

(17:43):
talked with Denny about tellingthe story of Evangel Christian
Academy.
Well, we were working on kind ofbut started to develop a
scripted version of it becauseit's pretty unbelievable because
they started their footballprogram in 1989, um, borrowing
jerseys and and and equipmentfrom a neighboring school in
Shreeport, practicing in parkand parking lots, and within

(18:04):
four years, uh they won adistrict championship.
And by year five, they won theirfirst state championship.
And so um they went on to behave have gone on to become just
a pedigree program and apowerhouse in all of high school
football.
Well, it's because of theculture uh that Denny created.
And um it was it was 2020.
He and I were just catching up.

(18:24):
He was retired, he's got uhseven kiddos and I think 13
grandbabies.
He and his wife were enjoying uhretirement, and we were just
catching up as we often didabout once a quarter.
It was football season.
I said, How's the football teamdoing?
He said, Wow, he said, Aaron,we're first time in our history,
we're oh and three to start theseason won a game.
And I was like, What?
What why?
He's like, Man, we've we've lostthe culture.

(18:47):
Uh we're a really young team.
I said, Well, what are you gonnado about it?
Because I mean they they went onan 85-game home winning streak.
I mean, this is the type offootball team they've been.
That's right.
And he said, Man, I'm gonna I'mgonna come out of retirement, I
think.
And and uh and I said, Are youserious?
He goes, Yeah.
I said, when?
He said, Tomorrow.

(19:08):
I went, Wow, can I uh maybe thisis the way we're supposed to
tell the story because the storyis so powerful.
Uh, maybe we're supposed to doit in real time.
Can I bring some cameras downand see if we can't put together
a little sizzle?
Uh he said, absolutely.
Long story short, we had uhdeals from Peacock, close to one
from Discovery Plus, and throughthe process is too no need to go

(19:29):
into it all unless you want to.
We uh finally signed a deal uhwith Freebie, which is the new
ad-based platform for Amazon.
Uh, and uh this will be theirbasically their first piece of
faith centric content becauseit's called God Family Football.
And we we document the journeyof Danny coming back to bring
the the program to nationalprominence and bring the the the

(19:50):
culture of God first, familysecond, and football third uh to
the forefront.
So we're really, really excited.

James Duke (19:55):
That sounds great.
That sounds that sounds reallyexciting.
So it yeah, it does sound likeIt just kind of almost out of
not necessarily of necessity,but just it just sounds like uh
the docusary, the nature of itbeing a docuseries just kind of
developed naturally because hewas coming back and it just
like, hey, let's do this insteadof a scripted version or
whatever.
What were the challenges thatyou guys faced in creating a

(20:18):
docuseries?
I mean, this is obviousobviously, um, you know, a lot
of people that are listening tothis uh work in the business, so
they understand the differencebetween scripted and unscripted,
but you you you have no script,you're you're gonna get a bunch
of cameras, you're gonna film abunch of high schoolers.
Um and uh what were some of theyou know, what were some maybe

(20:39):
the unique challenges that youguys faced as you were trying to
craft a narrative, craft astory?

SPEAKER_01 (20:44):
Yeah, well, I will say, like Aaron said, this is
Aaron.
Aaron came to uh Watershed and Imean he he was he started
talking about this almostimmediately.
I mean, really.
And I mean, I mean, we knewabout Denny and his relationship
to the team and all that stuff.
And so this is something he wasgonna do something eventually,
scripted or unscripted orsomething with this, like he

(21:05):
said.
And so uh uh, you know, it'sinteresting once you and Aaron's
Aaron's been way more involved,uh way more involved than than I
have.
But you know, when when you comein and you're like, hey,
Amazon's gonna do it.
You're kidding me, it looksgreat.
Oh, we you know uh hired theshare one of the guys that did,
you know, uh um what you callit.

(21:28):
Aaron Help me.
Hard knock.
And all these different guys aregonna be great.
And you're like, man, it's gonnathey're gonna get him in town,
we're gonna start, seasonstarts, and then bang, here's
gonna come this great show.
And uh I think Aaron might tellyou that it's a little bit more
uh a little bit more to it thanthat.

SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
I'm telling you, look, look, it's been a you
know, and it's it's it's it's agood I'll do I'll do I'll do two
different uh viewpoints of it.
Let's go to the brand, just kindof the how the how to scripted,
as we all know, we have we weknow what we have to accomplish
every day on our schedule.
We have an X amount of pages,blah blah blah.

(22:04):
And it's it is there, and if youdon't get it, you're gonna have
to find figure out a way to getit, right?
On the unscripted side ofthings, which is our this is our
first foray into that.
Um, it is the to me, it is themost um tangible version in
storytelling of surrenderbecause you are literally going

(22:27):
after and following stories andhoping to discover and
believing, of course, life isfull of conflict, so we'll find
conflict, we'll find it's allabout relationships anyway,
character, the whole thing.
Our way in was this nationalprominent high school football
team.
They'd send more division oneand NFO players to to to these
places out of this little300-member high school.

(22:47):
We know that's our way in, butonce we get in, we really hope
there's something therecompelling, right?
So it's this every day ofsurrender, and and as you do
that, you begin to to follow,follow the stories and follow
the scenarios.
And man, I gotta say, some daysyou get to the get to the
production office and going, ohmy gosh, what have we done?
Is this uh they've given us Xyou know X amount of millions of

(23:09):
dollars to do this?
How we you know, and then thenagain, it happens every single
time.
And um, so that was one of thebiggest things.
But I think ultimately this isthe this is a testament and a
testimony and a story, James,for your listeners, of miracle
of the miraculous.
Here's what I mean.
Nowhere, I get I get um themandates about quarterly from
our agency as far as what thenetworks are looking for, and of

(23:33):
course, as filmmakers and peoplethat are trying to create
content, we're going, okay, whatwhat are some things?
How can we, how can what are theright pitches?
Nowhere ever have I seen on amandate high school football,
faith-based docuseries needed,wanted, anywhere.
And it really came down to, andwe stayed with it, man, for over

(23:53):
two years.
And I gotta give him credit, I'mgonna make sure he listens to
this to Jared Getz.
Jared Getz was a was a former uhpresident of uh television for
Lionsgate.
He went for many years and didDisney before that.
He now has his own companycalled Ascending Media, and he
got a hold of our sizzle andliterally said he what I mean.

(24:14):
He was basically arepresentation to uh to
everyone.
And without him, honestlycontinuing to stay with it.
We had gone to free, we had goneto IMDB, which now is freebie
originally, and they had passed.
He came back to them, they haddinner.
He goes, I have dinner again.
This is a year and somethinglater, a year and a half later.
I've dinner with them tonight.
I said, Man, go one more timewith God family football.

(24:35):
And that was the that was thethe breakthrough that night at
dinner, they said, you knowwhat, we think we missed it, and
there we are.

James Duke (24:42):
That's awesome.
I love hearing those kind ofstories.
It's great.
One of the things I think that alot of people don't get about
this business is how important,and you know, I don't mean to
maybe they do, but but but theimportance of relationships,
building relationships andconnections with people who who

(25:04):
advocate for you when whetheryou're in the room or not in the
room.
And so, like when you buildrelationships with like with
like this executive and theseother producers and people like
that who know how to come in andadvocate for you and for your
projects, it makes all thedifference in the world.
And that all starts with justbeing authentic, just building
relationships with people, justbeing human with them, just just

(25:26):
connecting with other people andsuch a level where they want to
work with you.
They they they like the projectsyou're bringing in because
there's I'm sure there's a lotof projects that everyone sees,
and but but they're that theymight be interested in or at
least think are somewhatinteresting, but then the people
who are making it um uh is thething that oftentimes puts it
over the top.

(25:47):
It's like I want to work withthat person.
I think that person has a uniqueperspective, they have a unique
POV.
And so I imagine a docuseriescoming in with this kind of
topic, like you said, no one'sasking for this, but yet you
guys saw it, and this guy sawit, and and and now Amazon and
Freebie saw it.
So um I I love hearing thosekind of stories.

SPEAKER_01 (26:09):
What and Aaron's definitely a great example of
you know, uh, someone who wentin and kind of really had just
formed a great relationship withJared, and uh uh it's it was
definitely not just uh hey,here's this thing.
Oh, it's great, I'll sell it ina business type thing.
I mean, Aaron's done such agreat job, and I and and they

(26:30):
really do have a uh relationshipnow, and it's it's it's amazing.

James Duke (26:34):
And you and so you guys filmed for how long did it
take you to film season one?

SPEAKER_00 (26:40):
So we we filmed the entire football season.
So we were basically there fromAugust to November.

James Duke (26:45):
Okay.
Yeah.
And so and then you thenbasically you you did you find I
guess here's my question.
Did you find the show in theedit?
Like where do you feel like youfound the show?

SPEAKER_00 (26:59):
Um that's a good question.
Um we've had we started with aparticular uh team initially in
post.
Um we weren't getting we weren'tgetting to a place that the
network was really feeling likewe could get to.
It was just a subjective,honestly, a subjective viewpoint

(27:19):
of it.
Sure.
Um of course, then we kind ofbrought on some a new guy.
His name is Matt MatthewWoolsey.
He's been for 16 seasons.
He basically ran posts for BigBrother and was able to really
kind of dive in.
And it was, I think it washonestly at the time, you know,
people, it's frustrating forpeople that are there from the
beginning and let down andwhat's all going to happen.

(27:40):
But I think, you know, hindsightbeing 2020 has been a blessing.
He had no, he came in withoutknowing one frame of content
that we shot in the field.
He came in and then had toassess.
So it took him like two or threeweeks just to go through
hundreds of hours of footage toget his head wrapped around it.
He and I had so many differentjust conversations around it all
just so he could wrap it.

(28:01):
But once he did, I feel like hehad a he had a at a viewpoint
and he had a POV back to that,that we didn't have because
we're so forced for the treessometimes.
Um he was able to go, dude, thisthis is this is this is this is
a gem, this is amazing.
This started pointing out thingsand really pacing it in a way
nothing changed content-wise.

(28:21):
So it is what it is.
It is a school that puts Godfirst, family second, and
football third.
And they have created championsbecause of that formula.
That's the show, right?
You get to see the lives ofthese kids.
There's a lot of drama, there'sa whole thing that happens
because they're high schoolkids.
However, it was just a pacingkind of uh version of what we
had, what we had filmed thatbegan to step it up and really

(28:45):
create something that created alot more energy, a lot more
excitement, a lot better TV, aswe all often tell.

James Duke (28:50):
Yep, yep.
Uh I love I love I I really umI'm looking forward to the to
seeing the show.
I look if if uh what's thatnetwork?
If Bravo can make you know showsout of people selling real
estate and and rich womenfighting each other, you know,
it's like you can make a showout of anything.
And and um, and uh what I thinkthere's wasn't there another

(29:14):
high school football show likeon Netflix or something?

SPEAKER_02 (29:17):
Yeah, was that a few, yeah.

James Duke (29:19):
Yeah, was that like a comp for you guys?
Like when you guys went in, wasthat were those shows um I don't
like I don't even know if thoseshows were necessarily
successful or anything, but um,but when you were pitching it,
was that like a comp for youguys?

SPEAKER_00 (29:33):
I think so.
I mean, in some respects, it'slike look, you know, having a
high school football docuseriesand nothing new.
What is new for us?
And what one of the things thatFreebie said to us, because I,
you know, early on, I'm like,look, this is not a faith-based
show.
However, it's faith becausethat's what they used to be

(29:54):
create champions and and createkids to believe in themselves
more than they thought they evercould.
And they go, no, no, no, that'swhat makes it different.
That's why we like it, that'swhy we want it.
So Title Town, I think TitleTown is the one you're thinking
of in Netflix.
You know, that was about asimilar, very successful
program, I think, in Georgia.
Uh, but but you'll see the coachhad a very different philosophy,

(30:14):
very different.
He was degrading, he had a lotof controversy around him, that
kind of a thing.
Our our our POV, Danny, coachCoach Danny Duran, is all about
elevating, encouraging,believing, putting putting
priority in this right place.
You know, football is not goingto be God around here, is what
is one of his big quotes.
And really raising up them to beyoung men, that's what he's

(30:37):
doing it for.
Yeah.
Is to create young men ratherthan you know, just these little
boys running around with pads.

SPEAKER_01 (30:44):
Yeah, Denny's coaching method is almost
counter to any coaching methodyou've ever seen at times.
I mean, I mean, there are timeswhere they go, Oh man, he's
about to rip that guy's facemask off, and that's when he
goes grace and he's calm and andall of that.
And there's times when you'relike going, oh, this isn't that

(31:05):
big deal, and he'll just get allover him.
You know, it's uh he just hejust uh I don't know, he just
has a different way of doingeverything, and it really does,
and it's driven.
I've never seen anyone who takestheir faith like he does and
uses it both practically and andand like he does.

(31:30):
Wouldn't you agree?
I mean, I've never seen anyone,I've always said, you know, when
you're when you're parenting,don't use God, you know, your
parents like I know the Lorddoesn't want you to do this, and
would would Jesus do that, youknow, to their kids, and then
you know, then God and you know,then God becomes this like
disciplinarian God that sitsback and's like, you shouldn't

(31:53):
be doing that.
But then he is able to usescripture, his faith, the Bible,
his relationship with God injust the most unbelievable ways
in huddles, pre-game talks,post-game, when they win, when
they lose.
It's it's actually incredible towatch.

James Duke (32:10):
That's really that's neat.
It is it when you're dealingwith a true subject, when you're
dealing with a real life personwho clearly, Aaron, you have
admired for years.
I mean, he's a mentor of yours.
How do you and how and I'm justyou know, how did you guys,
because obviously I haven't seenit yet, the audience hasn't seen
it yet.
How did you guys handle maybethe not so great moments, you

(32:34):
know, where someone maybe isn'tat their best?
And because that makes goodtelevision, conflict, and and
and so how do you honor theperson that you see as a mentor
and you want people toappreciate, but at the same
time, you know, make portraythem in a very authentic real
life where real light wheremaybe they aren't uh at their

(32:55):
best 24-7 because they'rebecause they're human.

SPEAKER_00 (32:59):
Show the truth, you know.
This is all about the truth.
Um, and you know, the one of thethings going into this is uh
somebody who has such a heartconnection, and and he's one of
my he is probably my favoriteperson on the planet with Denny,
is I was incredibly uhprotective of him.
Um not protective of him fromthe standpoint because there's

(33:22):
anything there that I peopledon't need to see, because he
literally is what you see iswhat you get, and how you see
him on screen is exactly how youwould see him if you were eating
having Mexican food with him.
But making sure that because youlook, myself, my partners,
Cliff, Scott, and Cody, we aremen of faith.
We know the story we want totell.

(33:42):
We are partnering oftentimeswith production companies,
people on our crew, things thatdon't necessarily have the same
lens, right?
So, how do we shepherd what wethe story that we want to tell?
And that is to be as truthfuland as honest as possible.
Now, in the wrong hands, certainshows can become something that

(34:03):
they weren't intended to be.
In the right hands, theycontinue to be the thing that
they were intended to be.
And so, to your point, there isan instance this season where
one of the one of their bestfootball players who will be a
five-star recruit, he'll be asenior year is coming in this
fall.
He's already recruited by 20plus schools, and we'll have
more.

(34:23):
He had a major, major freakoutmoment at halftime of a game.
I mean, I I was like, is heokay?
Like, is he losing his mind?
Okay, I think typical Hollywoodwould have rushed the cameras
and stuck it in his face anddone that.
And I'm not doing this to likepat myself on the back.
I'm telling you that to yourpoint of how do you monitor?

(34:45):
I I did the opposite.
The guys, we're gonna stay away,we're gonna allow this, we're
not gonna we're gonna because itcould have been detrimental to
his future.
If college coaches would haveseen a crack in his armor or a
mental scenario that maybehasn't been developed fully yet,
and maybe been detrimental tohis future.
So, my point is it's abouttelling the truth at the same

(35:05):
time protecting the integrity ofthe people and not exposing it
and making it bigger and makinglight of it so that we can it
can be a better TV.
We already have great TV.
We have great TV by showing thetruth.

James Duke (35:19):
I I mean, I just can't help but think about
myself, right?
And just go, imagine your worstmoments in high school are
recorded and broadcast foreveryone in the world to see.
And yeah, I mean, I look, I'vewatched plenty of reality TV
shows where you've, you know,you look, you know who on
Survivor who they are casting asthe villain.

(35:41):
They they know what they'redoing, right?
They that's kind of how thoseshows are structured.
But I like what you're sayinghere, because as people of
faith, we have to be different.
You know, that's one of thethings we talk about at Act One
a lot, which is how are youdifferent?
How are you different?
We're supposed to be different.
How are you different?
And is it is it is it thecontent that you create, or is

(36:03):
it who you are when creatingthat content?

SPEAKER_00 (36:06):
James, no, no, you know, I don't want this to be be
offensive to anyone listeningbecause it's not intended.
Cliff and I and our partnersdon't view our competition as
faith-based filmmakers, right?
We view our competition withMark Burnett, with those that
are making shows like this atthe highest level, or Steven
Spielberg Spielberg and makingmovies at the highest level.

(36:28):
Because, you know, we we talkabout acknowledgement.
I'm sure you have on yourpodcast that, you know, just
because we're people of faith,we we allow ourselves, we allow
the the standard of our creationand the standard of our art to
be compromised.
Going back to the initial thingyou said earlier, how do you
show real conflict?
Well, in our show, we're beep,we're bleeping out F bombs.

(36:51):
Not I honestly, I wanted to keepthem.
The network wanted to bleep themout.
Seriously, because these arehigh school kids that are
pursuing a lot of them pursuingGod, a lot of them buying into
the culture that that who theyare in Christ.
But okay, so they don't sayF-bombs?
Of course they say F-bombs.
Yeah, you know what I mean?

(37:11):
It's a little thing, but um toto your point of the of showing
things in a way that's honestand truthful and authentic and
still glorifying God.

James Duke (37:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, look, uh I think all ofus know like that a lot of this
content that we kind of weretalking about, and we have we
talked to a lot a lot of peopleabout it, is we just want to we
just want people to tell thetruth, you know, just tell the
truth.
And when you put a glossy veneeron everything, like the glossy

(37:40):
veneers, you know, work fine onsome things, um, but when you
put a glossy veneer oneverything, that's that's not
that's not how real life is,right?
Like real and and so that's thequestion.
If everything is a felt boardSunday school lesson, then you
know we're not getting to thereal heart and the real root of

(38:03):
the truth.
It's not that's not that it'snot that you should never do a
felt board Sunday school lesson,it's just that you shouldn't
make every single story a feltboard Sunday school lesson.
You have to have a goodperspective on this, yeah.
So let's talk a little bit abouthow did these two, you know, CCM
Christian music artists, thesetwo guys that grew up in the

(38:26):
church and started doingministry and are musicians,
singer-songwriters, uh touringon the road.
How did you guys transition intouh film?
When when had you had you alwaysmade film and uh or was this a
uh a brand new thing for both ofyou guys?
Just uh Cliff, how about westart with you?

SPEAKER_01 (38:47):
Well, I mean, uh basically what happened is uh uh
Aaron called me up and he'slike, Hey, you want to go to uh
you know uh Waffle House andhave breakfast?
Yeah, and he went over there andhe goes, Hey, I think it's time
for us to stop doing music andgo into film.
I go, Okay.
And that was it.

SPEAKER_02 (39:03):
It was a straight part of the uh but now, you
know, it's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 (39:11):
From so Aaron, I'm not well I'll let Aaron speak
for himself, even though youknow I may do it better.
Um, I uh I was working at uh thechurch, uh I was touring still
some and the church, and um webasically started doing these

(39:33):
short films we would do forsomething we call beach retreat,
we take like 5,000 uh you knowteenagers and stuff to the
beach.
You know, they have the serviceat night and do all that.
And so one year we had an ideafor us to do like a short film.
We we'd you know done somedifferent things here and there,
and uh the interesting thingabout it was they said don't

(39:53):
don't preach in the film, justkind of just tell a story that
we can use, that the the speech.
The pastor, student pastor,whatever can use uh almost as an
illustration, like a parable.
And so we did.
I got it together, the firstfilm, and that's kind of how it
started.
And uh we ended, we've made, Ithink we're maybe about to be on

(40:13):
the 11th, maybe, but somewherein there we called Aaron because
Aaron got the film through atotally different way, and he
was living in LA.
So I called Aaron just to watchthe the films and see what he
thought.
And I don't know, now we cantransition to Aaron's side of
it.

SPEAKER_00 (40:28):
So my uh so back when I was in Christian music,
um, my my wife and my son, LukeBenward, who's now gonna be 28,
he was five years old.
My wife's an actress, she washosting a show on CMT, she's an
acting coach now.
Um, and she got a call from heragent in Nashville to say, Hey,
he was in kindergarten.
Hey, they're looking for afive-year-old to play Mel

(40:50):
Gibson's son in a movie calledWe Were Soldiers are gonna be
shooting in Fort Benny.
Do you think your son would dolike an audition?
She goes, I don't know.
He's in kindergarten right now,but I'll take him.
Long story short, he got therole.
That began his career in as anactor and has been still to this
day.
And so everything from Walmartmovies like Because of Win Dixie

(41:11):
and How to Eat Fried Worms tomultiple Disney Channel films to
Dear Johnny played the autisticson of uh with Chane Tatum.
And the guy, my son has had anincredibly illustrious career.
He actually leaves today foranother movie in Virginia.
But because of that, I wouldcome in and off tour to where
they were on location, whetherit was Spokane or Austin or or

(41:31):
or LA or whatever.
And I just, you know, when Iwould come off tour, it was the
you know, the father of thechild actor, and but he's a
musician and da-da-da-da.
And I would talk, I would chatwith producers and kind of watch
the process.
And you know, knowing that theartist journey is a short-lived
oftentimes, I was thinking, youknow, I've always been one who's

(41:52):
very interested in tour budgetsand sponsorships for the tours
and merchandise and more thanjust the writing the songs and
being the singer.
And I'm like, man, this is thesame thing in a different medium
where I'm able to be creative,able to have kind of do the A
plus B equals C side of my brainas well.
But really, it looks as if it'sreally based upon relationships

(42:15):
because I watched producers andI watched them with directors
and I watched them how theynavigated certain things.
And anyway, long story short, Iwas like, man, I think maybe one
day I that's something that myskill sets would would really
really work well with.
And long story short, I hadstarted kind of we moved to LA.
I was still, I had I still andstill in the music business in

(42:36):
certain in certain ways from andstarted the first project with a
friend of mine, a movie thatactually we shot about three and
a half years ago, finally.
But through that, is when Cliffcalled me and said, Hey man, we
got these short films, we watchthem.
And I was thinking to myself, ohmy gosh, there's no how am I
gonna tell my buddy, you know,these films are really bad

(42:56):
without even watching them.
And so I drug my feet andfinally, like three months
later, he goes, dude, sit downright now.
I want you to watch the first 90seconds of this particular movie
called The Assignment.
I did, and I was like, Whoa!Like, you guys know what you're
doing.
The the production quality wasincredible, they were all local
actors, their budgets of like 30grand, no money.

(43:17):
And I'm like, who's doing this?
So, long story short, he told meI flew to Houston, I sat with
Cliff, Scott Brignack, and CodyBess, who the four of us now
make up watershow motionpictures, and we started
dreaming.
And I turned to Scott Brignack,who has so far written and
directed our our our featuresand was doing the shorts.
I said, What do you want to do?

(43:39):
And he said, I want to makefeature films.
I said, Do you have an idea?
He said, I do.
It's called Playing God.
It's a con movie, small timecon.
I said, Have you writtenanything yet?
No.
So we speak.
I said, Cliff, I turned to Cliffand I said, Cliff, God has
afforded you so manyrelationships when it comes to
people that have kingdom heartsand kingdom pockets.

(44:01):
And do you know anybody whomight want to fund a movie?
He said, probably.
He calls he calls one person.
The first person he calledagreed to fund our first project
called Playing God, which is nowin Hulu.
Um, my son's one of the leads,Michael McKeon is one of the
leads.
Um, Alan Tudik.
It's a great, great littlemovie, con movie.

(44:21):
And I'll let Cliffix kind ofexplain it.
But that's what we we beganwith, man.
And we be now, and that has thenturned into we have a multi
multi-uh project slate ofthings, God Family Football
being one that's our first timeto sell to a network.
We have another YA moviestarring Jordan Fisher that
we're going to be going out within this summer, um, and multiple

(44:42):
other projects in development.
And it just started with guysgetting together, like-minded,
like-hearted, desiring to dosomething different, and really
trusting God to open the door tomake it happen.
And um, it's really it soundssimple, but it really is.

James Duke (45:00):
Yeah, yeah, that that is that sounds like it's so
easy peasy, everyone.
Just go find yourself a cliffyoung who can get some money,
find you a Scott Brigand who canwrite and direct everything.
You got it, you got it, baby.
You got no, no, no.
I mean, honestly, though, I lovethe idea of you guys coming
together.
I mean, man, it makes all thedifference to the world.
This is something I I alwayspreach, always preach to at Act

(45:22):
One about, which is find yourtribe, find the people that you
want to do this together withbecause you it's so hard.
The last thing you want to do isdo it alone.
And I love the fact that youguys found each other and
working together.
It's that's that's uh it'sfantastic.
I I you know, I'm curiousbecause of your backgrounds in

(45:43):
music, what what what have youguys found that is, if at all,
um, is translatable between thetwo industries?
Uh, what skill sets or issues orwhatever that you guys um had in
the uh music business uh thatyou have found has come to

(46:04):
either help you or hurt you orbenefit you in some way as you
transitioned into the filmbusiness?

SPEAKER_01 (46:10):
Yeah, I mean, I think look, there there are
definitely similarities thereand and with storytelling and
everything like that.
But I know that every time we'rehaving a meeting and we're
discussing something orespecially talking about
marketing or sell something,Aaron and I always, you know, or
I don't know if Aaron and I aretrying to relate to each other
so we understand, or whatever,we always bring up music

(46:32):
something.
I mean, it's like back in whenwe did this in music and we're
trying to put whatever on theand then they're always like,
okay, listen, this is not music.
Doesn't it probably, yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah, yeah.
I promise it does.
I promise we'll get there.
And so yeah, I think we mighttry to relate music, the music
industry to it a little bit toomuch.
Um at times, you know, I'm Aaronand I can be like, well, back in

(46:52):
back in '96.
But no, you know what'sinteresting, and I've talked to
Scott about this recently.
Uh, my band Cadens, we just dida 25th anniversary of our first
national release record.
And um we went to uh we did likea Kickstarter thing and

(47:14):
re-recorded the record uh lastyear in Nashville.
And we just uh went and did twoshows at the Ryman uh in
Nashville, which is like youknow the original Grand Old
Opera or whatever.
And and um it was it was fun, itwas great as nostalgic.
Uh not we're not I'm notplanning on touring anymore or
anything like that.

James Duke (47:34):
You're not gonna make any announcement?
This is this is not using ourpodcast.

SPEAKER_01 (47:38):
I still sore from those two shows, just from
standing up and playing theguitar and singing, but um just
from standing up and playing.
Yeah, but I was telling Scottbecause uh Scott and the guys
actually filmed, we're doingkind of a documentary making of
the record and all that.
So, Scott, our you know, writerdirector with Watershed, I was
talking, I was like, you know,it's interesting because uh

(47:59):
myself and my wife, and then aguy named Aaron Tate, who's a
songwriter, wrote all the songswith us and all that, he had an
amazing way of writing.
And he had an amazing way of howdo I even say this?
His perspective, the way he camearound to the crux or the
meaning of the whatever of songswas such a roundabout way, and

(48:22):
it was so just kind of in theback door, like you didn't
realize, oh, that's what they'resaying.
Something that it may be a songwhere the chorus was seemingly
uh negative.
A great example.
The first uh lyric and song thatwe ever worked on uh was when I
was in college, and the thechorus is everything I do is not

(48:45):
enough for you, everything I dois not enough for you.
I know that song.

SPEAKER_02 (48:49):
I know that song.

SPEAKER_01 (48:51):
And so that it sounds like it's like nothing I
can do to you know please you,everything I do is not enough
for you.
But the whole song's about graceand relationship with God, and
how there's nothing we can dothat is that is good enough, and
nothing we do that's bad enoughto thwart his plan and his mercy
and his grace.
And such an incredible way ofcoming about writing that.

(49:13):
All of his songs, his lyrics hadthat in it.
And so Scott is the exact sameway as a storyteller.
And I know that that is whatattracted uh uh me to Scott
creatively was when he would goabout doing something, it was
just in that you know, yeah,yeah, yeah.

(49:35):
Uh you think he's gonna write astory about somebody running
away from home, and he ends upbeing the exact opposite, and
you didn't realize until the endthat he'd actually run away from
home.
You know, I mean just incrediblethings like that to where you're
uh it takes you a while.
Almost for lack of a better wayof saying for me, I uh it's

(49:56):
almost like a uh, you know,Tarantino-esque kind of pulp
fiction world where where youdon't really realize what's
going on until a certain point,certain moment.
He had a he has a great way ofwriting twists that really, you
know, really, really hit youwhere you are in a great way.
And um I don't know, I just lovethe way he writes stories and
tells stories.
And uh I think that's really themain thing that I was like, man,

(50:20):
this is very much like the way Ifelt when Caitlin started.
And um that's I don't know,that's that's my side of it as
far as how I apply that music.
Now there's there's marketingand there's all the different
things that are similar and andand all of that.
But uh as far as that goes, thatwas to me is like, man, he's
like a songwriter, and thesethese films are like you know,

(50:43):
songs, and it's just incredibleto craft them and to work on
them and to see where they goand to see how people respond to
them.
And that's the you know, thebiggest thing.

James Duke (50:53):
Well, and I cannot and I can only imagine too.
I mean, as a performer, when youtour, when you tour songs for
all those years, you know, I'msure, you know, at this point,
probably for the most part, whatparts of what songs are gonna
hit the audience in a particularway.
When are they gonna when arethey gonna stand and cheer?

(51:14):
When are they gonna raise theirhands and work, you know,
whatever.
Like you probably know, and thatthat's something too that when
it comes to film is knowing youraudience and knowing what works.
Like, we used to have a um actone faculty that used to use the
Beatles to teach screenwriting,and her whole point was um how
the Beatles got their start werein a bunch of rowdy British

(51:35):
pubs, yeah.
And they they if so, if you allthe early Beatles stuff starts
with you know, downbeat boom,and they get right into it
because they learn that if theytook too long, they people start
all the drunks would startthrowing things at them so and
so they had to get right intoyou know, can't pay me right
there to get right into it rightaway, and that's kind of what

(51:58):
led to their early popularityand things like that was that
their their music was so rightaway, you you're right into the
song, and um, and in a sense, asscreenwriters, it's like get me
into the story right away, getme into you know, get me to that
inciting incident as quickly aspossible.
Help me, you know, capture thataudience's attention, that
opening seek that openingsequence.

(52:19):
Like, how how is it how is itimmediately pulling someone into
a new world or a new adventureor whatever?
And and as and I'm just assumingas a musician that has served
you guys well.
I mean, would you say that,Aaron?

SPEAKER_00 (52:34):
Absolutely.
I mean, I think part of uh partof understanding uh what will
what you hope will work.
I'm gonna of course we neverknow exactly what's gonna work
until it does, but what you hopeis that um I think I think one
of the things that in this Ilove being partners with uh my

(52:57):
three partners.
Um Cliff, his understanding ofthe big pic of a bigger picture
um scenario creatively, um, aswell as understanding the nuance
of what we're trying to do as aas a company and what the

(53:19):
stories we're telling isamazing.
Scott, to Cliff's point he justmade is is absolutely simpatico
with that and is tirelesslypursuing uh how to have those
types of parable and naturestories that and playing God is

(53:42):
a prime example, and we shouldtalk about that in a second.
How we did that, and Cliff canspeak to that really well.
But I think thirdly, whenprobably I call our MVP is is
our our last partner, Cody Bess.
Cody is our DP, he also uh editseverything with Scott.
The guy if he was in Hollywood,would be one of the biggest DPs

(54:06):
on the planet.
He is a his eyes insane, his hiscreative um breadth of work is
unbelievable from high, highfashion for photography in Italy
and all the high fashion stuffall the way down to the most
minimalist lighting to createmost beautiful images and motion

(54:28):
picture.
He's got it all and and heunderstands intricacies of story
character.
So we have this kind of modelwhere we do the way the way we
develop our projects is verymuch the heavy lifting, the pen
to the paper, Scott, so far,because we haven't done anything
outside of him when it comes towriting.

(54:50):
But the collective is 25% equalshare, equal weight, equal
voice, equal inspiration.
And we believe that as wesharpen, we get to the best
thing that we can possibly dofor this particular picture.
And you know, that's how itworks in songwriting, you know.
Sure, you have those enigmas whowrite everything by themselves,

(55:12):
but more times than not, you gotyou're in the room trying to
create magic in three in threeminutes on tape, and it really
takes the give, the the yin andthe yang, the give and the go.
And sometimes it could be onelittle story that takes you to
the the hook of the song thathas nothing to do with what you
just said, but it takes youthere.
Similarly, with with creatingcontent on screen, is it it's

(55:33):
it's all about the process andthe journey to get to the
ultimate story.

SPEAKER_01 (55:37):
Yeah, it's it's interesting.
Yeah, I mean, uh uh we were verycollaborative, and Scott is very
much like that.
I mean, Scott will come in andhe'll have written uh, you know,
uh uh first, I don't know, thefirst 30 minutes of a film or or
whatever it might be, or thefirst episode of something, and
he comes in and literally willlook at it.

(55:59):
Aaron or myself or Cody mightgo, Holly, I don't know, I don't
like this at all.
That is not the right direction.
No way that's gonna work.
And he'll just go back and go,okay.
Well, let me, I mean, not thatwe don't have these big
discussions, we go, yeah, butwhatever.
And then the people are kind ofagreeing, ah, it's just not
working.
I'll go back and rewrite it.
I mean, it's it's just, youknow, it's it's it's it's fun.

(56:19):
It's it's really fun.
I couldn't sit down and write ascript to save my life.
I can't even can't focus forthat long.

James Duke (56:26):
But taking notes.
Taking notes is a sign of abeing able to take notes is a
sign of a good writer.
That's one of the first thingsthat we we've learned is that
you gotta be able to take notes.
And um that that's a that's areally important attribute.
If you want to be a successfulwriter, you gotta be able to
take, gotta be able to take thenotes.
You gotta be able to figure outhow to make it work.

(56:49):
Um, Cliff, the uh Aaron'smentioned a couple of times, you
guys' first feature film um uhplaying God.
It's on it's available on Hulu,is that right?

SPEAKER_01 (56:59):
It is available on Hulu or anywhere where you can
uh you can get on Hulu if youalready have Hulu, it's on
there.
Uh, but if not, you canobviously you can uh rent it uh
or buy it, whatever.
Um pretty much anywhere.

James Duke (57:13):
Yeah, tell the audience a little bit about how
that film came to be and um andand kind of what the film's
about a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 (57:20):
Well, again, kind of what I was talking about earlier
about writing in the differentway of writing.
The whole idea was it startedout.
Uh we were gonna do kind of moreof a shorter, a shorter film
specifically for uh our retreatthat we're talking about.
And it was the idea was uh fourpeople, and I guess at the time

(57:41):
it was three people um basicallyuh argue the point of the
existence of God as that allstarted, but none of them
believe in God or relationshipwith God themselves.
So the whole idea was they'redoing this con and they were

(58:02):
trying to con this rich guy andit's uh um brother sister con
team.
They recruit their mentor, theirold crime uh mentor in crime is
uh Michael McKeon.
And uh they um they then uh goin to try to basically this

(58:26):
guy's searching for why hisdaughter died, and uh the the
millionaire is going up andthey're trying to take advantage
of that and use that to uhbasically rob him.
And he's searching around tryingto find who is God, going to get
like take a ayahuasca, and he'straveling all over the world.
He's you know, differentdifferent religions and
different things.
And so they're basically settingout to pretend that uh to play

(58:50):
God, basically, and to uhbasically, you know, trick him
out of his money, not him out ofhis money.
And so anyway, started thiswhole thing.
We're like, so you have thesepeople that are well, we'll call
them godless people, just forsake of ease, these godless
people, these criminals who aregonna try to pretend to be God
to this person who is seeking uhwho God is.

(59:12):
And so it's this veryinteresting way of trying to
this kind of like apologetickind of world that we got into,
uh, told by people who wereatheists or agnostic at best.
And so they got to go in andresearch and figure out who's
God, who wants, you know, andthen you end up one of the big
lines in it is we don't need togive him uh uh the God of the

(59:33):
Bible, the God of Oprah, the Godof whatever.
We just give him need to givehim the God that he wants.
And so that kind of sets him offon this journey.
And so there's just some greatstuff like that where they end
up talking about dying and whywhy bad things happen to good
people and why his daughter diedand all that.
Now it's interesting when youwalk out of this movie, uh when

(59:54):
you watch this movie, we weliterally have we tested this
movie a lot in LA all over theplace.
Austin, different places, allover.
And there would be aquestionnaire, of course, if
you've been to a testing of filmbefore.
And there'd be a questionnaire.
Most of some logical filmmakers,some are not.
And they would tell us somethingalmost a hundred percent of the
time.
The person on the end would say,I don't believe in God because

(01:00:18):
of da-da-da-da-da-da.
Or someone would say, I am aperson of faith.
And this was a movie that reallyspoke to me because I can tell
that this is a movie that peoplethat were atheist, agnostic, or
whatever else, they did had noidea any clue that we were
people of faith at all.
Um, but yet they always saidsomething about how what they

(01:00:39):
thought about God and what isGod, who is God to them.
And the people of faith thatwould go, yeah, we can tell this
is a faith movie.
I mean, it it's it's uh it was avery interesting.
It was almost 100% across theboard.
And um so I you know it's great.
I don't think it's a a perfectfilm, but I I don't it's it's a
fun journey.
It's it's uh it's it'sdefinitely a con movie has that

(01:01:01):
oceans 11 thing in there, butit's also very dramatic, very um
uh uh uh there's some veryhard-hitting places and very
tough places to watch.
And it's I don't know.
I think it's a I think it's agood first go at a feature.

James Duke (01:01:15):
And is it and did you guys shoot it?
Did you shoot it like rightbefore COVID, like before the
pandemic?
Or we shot it.
When did we shoot it?
2017?
17 or 18, yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
So it was a couple years before.
Okay.
And and uh what uh you know,Aaron said you, you know, you
went out and you raised themoney or whatever.
What was that like scaling upfrom short films up to a feature

(01:01:40):
film?
What were some maybe somechallenges you guys experienced
that you weren't expecting?
I asked these kind of I askedthe I asked the challenge
question a lot because I alwayssay that I think people learn
more from valleys than from frommountaintops.
And everyone loves to talk aboutmountaintops.
And I'm like, but tell me aboutthe valleys because I think that
there's uh there's so that'swhere most of the lessons are

(01:02:01):
learned.
So, like in terms of just themaybe some of the struggles or
issues that you guys had, whatwere what what what kind of
takeaways do you have?

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:09):
I mean, for for me, I would say the it was actually
tough.
We definitely made somemistakes.
I mean, we definitely, I mean, Iknow Aaron would say this 100%,
and that I would as well.
There are definitely things thatwe spent money on that we did
not need to spend money on.
And there were uh things that weshould have spent money on that
we didn't spend money on.

(01:02:30):
You know, and you know, it it'suh I and I, you know, funny,
when we go into a when we gointo about to go into a film,
I'm filming a short film rightnow in Houston for the Beach Ree
thing and working on it, and um,you know, Aaron or I or whoever
kind of like to we feel likewe're in charge or we can we

(01:02:50):
have a handle on things and welike to treat people a certain
way.
And because there was what 50something people on set at all
times, not even including cast,I think, or playing God.
Um you know, I don't even knowwhat to say.
Like here I am.
I'm I'm one of the guys whocreated this film.
I'm sitting there around all ofthese film crew that done all

(01:03:12):
these movies all over the worldand country and everything.
I'm kind of going, okay, I guessI'm just kind of along for the
ride here, you know.
And so there are a lot of thingslike I don't know, the the the
hierarchy in filmmaking bothersme so badly.
Just the whole, you know, one ofthe PAs would sit in the in one

(01:03:33):
of the actors' chairs just for asecond to get a photo of
themselves, and then one of theyou know, older PAs that have
been around longer, or one ofthe you know, co-directors,
people, whatever would go aroundand be like, hey, you know, you
can't sit there, you can't sitthere, you know, that kind of
stuff.
And I'm like, that's bull crap,I ain't doing that.
So I'm like, next time we dothat, we're treating everybody

(01:03:53):
the same.
No, I understand you have actorscome in, you know.
We have big time actors come inthat you know are used to being
treated a certain way and theyhave certain things, and that's
fine.
I get it.
Uh and that's that's a differentstory.
But when it comes to the crewand all that, we ain't we're not
doing that.
You don't sit there, you don'tsit, you're not supposed to go
in there.
Uh that ain't happening.
So we we uh everyone's aeveryone's uh in a family, and

(01:04:16):
they're oh, we're all a teamfrom the person who gets coffee
to the to the director to thewhoever.

James Duke (01:04:24):
So I love it, I love it.
Spoken like a man who toured ina band for 15 years.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:30):
Yeah, yeah.

James Duke (01:04:32):
Everybody, no, you're not you're not the only
one that gets the coffee.
We all get the coffee.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:37):
Right, right, exactly.

James Duke (01:04:38):
No, that's that's you know, that's so fascinating
too, because you're right thatthat Hollywood is built on all
these different hierarchicalsystems, and some are necessary
because they're they they'rethey're about production flow,
they're about they're abouttrying to get you know
expediting process, but then somany other of them, it's just
ego, it's just about and andmoney and right and and uh all

(01:05:02):
that kind of stuff.
And and yes, that's once again,how are we different?
You gotta ask that question, yougotta answer that question.
Right.
How are we different?

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:11):
Yeah, and I think you know, but coming from the
actor's perspective, I'll saythis being a musician for so
long, uh you know, we used tosay, I can't believe these
people have all these writersand contracts, and they have to
have what vegetables and whomeets, and they have to stay
hot.
Well, then after we had touredfor about four years
independently, and we said, giveus whatever you want.

(01:05:31):
So we had Subway for lunch everyday, and we had pizza for dinner
every day for four years.
We finally realized, okay, weget it.
Maybe we need to have somethings here.
And so look, when I, you know,when we were picked up at the
airport or if we're to fly data,or we're we go into a place, you

(01:05:52):
know, yes, we would like to havethings pseudo-familiar, know
where we're going, have thegreen room, have a place we eat.
I get it.
And so actors are a differentstory.
I don't go in there and going,oh, actors are a bunch of you
know jerks and all that.
It's not that at all.
I mean, it it's they need somefamiliarity.
They knew Aaron knows as well asanyone does with Luke.
Um, but and we want to take careof the actors, but at the same

(01:06:14):
time, I mean, when it comes tothe crew and the the people and
the directors and all that, Imean, I can't I can't stand the
hierarchy and then the the egos,I can't stand it.

James Duke (01:06:24):
I mean, it's why I banned um it's why I banned
pizza from all my film sets.
I mean, it's I I love pizza,lots of people love pizza.
But if you're a crew membergoing from show to show and and
all they're doing is shoving,you know, cheap pizza down your
throat, it's like, no, givethese crew guys something good
to eat, give them somethinggood, give them something
healthy.
Don't like it's like it's notlike pizza's wrong or bad, it's

(01:06:46):
that that no, I'm not gonna be aset where they're gonna that
gaffer's gonna come in and belike, What?
You're giving me pizza, youknow, kind of thing.
I don't want to eat well, youknow.
Yeah, of course.
So, Aaron, you you know, yourson stars in the film.
He's one of the one of theactors that stars in the film.
Um, what was it like working?
Was that the first time youproduced a movie that your son

(01:07:08):
starred in?
What what's what what is thatlike to to work with your son uh
at that level?
It's got it's gotta be fun, butit's also there's gotta be other
parts of it maybe not so fun.
I don't know, maybe maybe foryou, but maybe for him.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:20):
Man, thanks for asking that question.
I it was uh it was amazing, itwas a dream come true, you know.
Continuing the kind of thelegacy we have on the in the in
the Benward side of me workingwith my father and not him
working with with me.
Um the the the the experiencewas uh you know, you have to ask
him for his take, but I think hewould say it was enjoyable.

(01:07:43):
It was incredibly collaborative.
And you know, as a as a father,there's no greater joy than to
watch your your children do whatthey love and what what they're
what they've been created to do.
And so to be able to be therefirsthand and watch him and his
process.
And obviously, as he's growninto a young man, um from five
years old to now the time whenhe shot a movie, I think he was

(01:08:06):
24, 25 years old, 24, 25 yearsold.
Um, and to see him and hisprocesses and see him as an
artist, uh, as a young man.
Um taking, you know, how hedealt with our director, you
know, uh for me to step, stepback and allow him, whether he

(01:08:27):
was frustrated with certainthings or he was over the top
about certain things or heneeded other things, to not to
allow that to happen, that thattransaction, that relationship
to develop a couple of times washard, to be honest.
Um, because he he got frustrateda few times that were pretty big
frustrations.
But allowing him and thedirector to to really work

(01:08:49):
through that created anincredible uh, I think trust
ultimately through it allbetween the two of them that
you'll that you'll see onscreen.
Um, and he he learned throughit, you know, and I think I
think Scott learned through itas well.
And instead of inserting myselfin there to make sure it was all
okay, allowing that tension thatthen created you know uh even
stronger performance, I think.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:11):
Yeah, and Luke had been Luke had been in a lot of
big uh uh sets like that andeverything, way bigger than
that, and Scott never hadactually.
So I think it was a learningexperience for Scott.

James Duke (01:09:22):
Yeah, that's what I'm curious what Scott would
say, like that.
And you know, even though you'refriends and partners, there's an
I'm sure there's some level ofintimidation and maybe worry or
anxiety that I've got dad onthis shoulder as my producer,
and and I'm trying to trying todirect his son, like you said,

(01:09:43):
on a big film set that maybe Ihaven't been at.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:46):
So um and and uh Aaron's oldest daughter was a
scripty.

James Duke (01:09:51):
Yeah, complete control, Bunward had every
aspect of production undercomplete control.
Uh that's funny.
She's like feeding new lines toa yes, totally, man.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:04):
Yeah, that's true, she really was.
Yes.

James Duke (01:10:08):
Wow, you guys.
Sounds like a lot of greatstuff.
Um, I think the audience uh isreally gonna get a kick out of
uh if they haven't found playingGod already, and and then and of
course, um God family footballand all these other projects.
So congratulations, thanks somuch.
This has been uh just afantastic conversation.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:27):
And I will say one thing too.
I'm gonna say, and I'm thinkingabout Aaron on this as much more
than anyone is that uh I willsay this that it takes serious
hard work to be in this world inthis business.
And you know, Aaron, for one,works his tail off all the time.

(01:10:49):
And he it's constant, constant,constant.
It it is it is not a thing whereit's like, ah man, we're just
gonna go and make this movie,and you know, we're gonna, you
know, have a you know, an altarcall at the end, and men's gonna
be a great movie, and we'regonna get this, you know, we're
gonna get this actor who used tobe really good and famous, get
him in there, and boom, there'sour movie.

(01:11:10):
No, it to make good film and tomake great films, it takes some
serious, serious work andserious dedication and serious
perseverance.
And uh we're we're we we'relearning that, we have learned
that, uh, but I will say that wewe we do uh work hard at what we
do.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:29):
Yeah, yeah.
James, I was gonna ask you aquestion before before we go.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:34):
Someone who has been doing this in Act One and very
connected to the industry andthe creatives and people like
ourselves, what would you say tous as we get off of this?
What would you tell us?
What would you encourage us withor suggest to us or challenge us
with?
Or what do you feel is neededright now?

James Duke (01:11:52):
Uh I mean, that's a boy, that's a great question.
I and that's a whole we could doa whole, we record a whole other
podcast on that.
Um you know, one of the thingsthat I think that I'm impressed
with you guys on is a little bitkind of what Cliff touched on
there is there's a there's alevel of humility that you have
to have in working in thisbusiness where you have to go,

(01:12:14):
look, I just have to keeptrying.
Things are not going to workout.
No's almost never mean no.
They they in this context, theyjust mean not right now.
And you have, and it's so hardto train your brain to think
when you have that meeting, whenyou have that pitch meeting,
when you meet with thatproducer, when you meet with
that financier, potentialwhatever, and you get a no to

(01:12:37):
retrain your brain to be like,no, it really just means not
right now.
And um uh perseverance issomething that is woefully
underappreciated.
But every single person that Iknow that has made any kind of
mark in this business has doneit over years and years of just

(01:13:00):
hard work, of just stick to itand just staying in there and
just trying to get stuff done.
And um, and I think you guys aredoing that.
And I would just say, I thinkmore than anything, you just
have to keep going.
And uh even when you taste alittle bit of success, it's it's
not like all of a sudden theball, the the boulder starts

(01:13:23):
rolling down the hill.
It's just like it's like, oh,there's a larger hill now that's
even steeper, and I gotta pushthe boulder even even even
harder.
And and that is kind of, Ithink, in the end, Aaron, to
your question, man.
My my hope and my prayer and myblessing for you guys is that
you would dig your heels in andjust push harder, push harder.

(01:13:48):
So I don't know if that's kindof what you were behind, but
that would be my thanks for uhstick to it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:56):
Did you coin that stick to it?

James Duke (01:13:59):
Yeah, that's right.
That's a Jimmy.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:00):
I like that.

James Duke (01:14:02):
I like that.
Hey, listen, I love you guys, Iappreciate you guys.
This has been fantastic.
I always like to close ourpodcast by praying for our
guests.
Would you allow me to do that?
Absolutely.
Uh Heavenly Father, we just wantto stop and um just thank you
for who you are, and just thankyou for what you're doing in the
lives of so many people arounduh around the world.

(01:14:22):
I especially want to thank youfor the work uh that you are
doing in the lives of of Aaronand Cliff and um God, uh not
only in them, but in theirfamilies and and just uh through
the work that they'reaccomplishing.
God, I just I just pray that youwould continue to work in them
and through them, that you wouldcontinue to uh uh fill them with
your creativity and yourinspiration.

(01:14:44):
Uh God, I pray you wouldcontinue to fill them with your
stick to it.
Um God, that they would uh thatthey would persevere, that they
would persevere um through allthe different challenges that
come our ways.
And God, I pray that you wouldjust bless them.
I pray a blessing upon all theirendeavors, I pray a blessing
upon their families, theirchildren, their marriages, uh,

(01:15:05):
and of course their work, God.
And um we trust you in all ofthese things uh because you are
a good God.
And uh we love you.
We pray this in Jesus' name andyour promises we stand.
Amen.
Thank you for listening to theAct One podcast, celebrating
over 20 years as the premiertraining program for Christians

(01:15:25):
in Hollywood.
Act One is a Christian communityof entertainment industry
professionals who train andequip storytellers to create
works of truth, goodness, andbeauty.
The Act One program is adivision of Master Media
International.
To financially support themission of Act One or to learn
more about our programs, visitus online at Act One Program dot
com.

(01:15:46):
And to learn more about the workof Master Media, go to
MasterMedia.com.