Screenwriter Eboni Freeman

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Act One Podcast - Episode 31 - Interview with Screenwriter, Eboni Freeman.

Eboni Freeman is a native Angelino who got her start in the television industry working for FOX Sports.  While at FOX, she won an Emmy for her work on the 2015 Women’s World Cup.  In 2016, Eboni was chosen as a Sundance Episodic Fellow and was also selected for WeForShe’s WriteHer List. She most recently was co-producer on the hit NBC series THIS IS US.  While on THIS IS US, Eboni has been nominated for two Writers Guild Awards and a Humanitas Prize.

SPOILER WARNING: Eboni and I discuss the final episode of THIS IS US during the first 30 minutes of this episode.

The Act One Podcast provides insight and inspiration on the business and craft of Hollywood from a Christian perspective.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:04):
I remember one day there was like a script line
next to my desk, just lyingaround, and I was bored.
So I picked it up.
I just read it and I was like,oh yeah, duh, people do this.
Like I watched TV.
I watched TV.
It was like a light bulb wentoff.
I got on the computer, ordered,I probably typed in how to write
a screenplay.

(00:25):
And I read the book from coverto cover, and I took the
principles of the book and Iwrote a screenplay.

James Duke (00:41):
This is the Act One Podcast.
I'm your host, James Duke.
Thanks for listening.
Please don't forget to subscribeto our little podcast at hand
and leave us a good review.
My guest today is screenwriterEbony Freeman.
Ebony is a native Angelino whogot her start in the television
industry working for Fox Sports.

(01:02):
While at Fox, she won an Emmyfor her work on the 2015 Women's
World Cup.
In 2016, Ebony was chosen as aSundance episodic fellow and was
also selected for We for SheedsWriter List.
She most recently wasco-producer on the Hit NBC
series This US, which wediscussed quite a bit on today's

(01:23):
podcast.
And while on Vista, Ebony hasbeen nominated for two Writer's
Guilds Awards and a HumanocopePrize, which is really cool.
Ebony is a wonderful person whoI know you will enjoy hearing
from.
But this is a spoiler warningfor you Vistaz Us fans who
haven't watched the finalepisode yet.
Ebony, Ebony and I do discusssome things that might ruin it

(01:47):
for you.
So this is your official spoilerwarning.
Enjoy.
Ebony Freeman, welcome to theAct One podcast.
It's great to have you on.

SPEAKER_01 (02:01):
Thank you.
I'm excited to be on.

James Duke (02:05):
You know, we we connected uh through a you know
an Act One alum, and um we'reable to spend some time just you
know catching up and talking.
And I really wanted to inviteyou on to the show because I
think that your or show, thepodcast, because that your your
journey, I think, is afascinating one, one in which I
think a lot of young, aspiring,uh, emerging writers can learn

(02:29):
from.
And I also just find you to be afascinating person.
So wow, okay.

SPEAKER_00 (02:33):
Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
So that's always good in this business.

James Duke (02:41):
So, first off, let's let's talk about the, you know,
obviously the elephant in theroom.
I've never known, I've neverspoken to someone who just had a
long-running hit TV show go offthe air in the last 24 hours.
So we're actually talking.
Um uh, we're actually talking,it's been less than 24 hours

(03:01):
since the finale, the seriesfinale of This Is Us, um, aired.
So, what's that feel like?
So, you were you were on the youwere a writer on the show for
how many years again?

SPEAKER_01 (03:13):
So, for four seasons of the show, and this is us has
been on for six seasons.
So, I joined in season three.

James Duke (03:20):
Okay.
So you were you are working on ahit TV show for four seasons.
What's it like to suddenly haveit?
I mean, I know for you it's beenover with for a while, but yeah.
What's it like?
What's it like to uh post ThisIs Us after the finale?
Do you have any can you explainthe feelings or is are there

(03:41):
feelings?
Is it uh talk a little bit aboutthat?

SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
Yeah, I think a lot of people have been asking me
for like the last maybe likefour or five months now.
Like, how do you feel?
It's almost over, like, andhonestly, like even with my
therapist like talking about it,I'm like, you know, I don't
really feel much of anythingright now.
Like, you know, when peoplewould ask.

(04:14):
We finished breaking the finalepisode, maybe like two months
or a month and a half before itwas, you know, over, over before
this last episode aired.
But we were, you know, stillmeeting up, um, watching cuts of
episodes, stuff like that.
And so every so now and again,we'd still have some work to do.
But it hit me.

(04:35):
I was surprised.
I got a little emotional justwatching it, um, which that
doesn't happen to me quite oftenbecause I've seen the cuts of
the episodes.
I've, you know, I know it'sgonna happen, you know.
Um, but I think I was a littlebit surprised at how emotional I
felt about it all.
But and just reflecting back aswell on my time on the show and

(04:59):
how grateful I've been to workwith some incredible people.
Um, just thinking about that,and I was looking at photos and
stuff, just doing a lotyesterday.

James Duke (05:10):
It was like graduate graduation ceremony or
something, like yeah, that'sfunny.
Um, you know, I if I remembercorrectly, the the creator and
showrunner, uh, it's DanFogelman, right?
Dan Fogelman.
Um I think he had said in in ina in a particular interview a
while back or something that heactually knew how the show was

(05:32):
gonna end back in season one.
Um, now that it's um over with,um, I wonder if you could talk a
little bit about that.
Was the finale kind of always?
Did you guys make any changes toit?
And you know, and obviously,characters, you know, there's
lots of things that havehappened between season one and
season six.
It's such a character-drivenshow, but I'm just curious about

(05:54):
um that comment in particular.
Um, was it as far as you know,was it still the the the idea
that he had to close the show atthe very beginning?

SPEAKER_01 (06:05):
Yeah, so and shout out to we have Dan Fulham is the
creator and showrunner.
We also have two othershowrunners um who've been on
the show since season one.
Um, and I believe they came onas showrunners towards the end
of season two, but Isaac Abticaand Elizabeth Berger.
Um, they so yes, so as far as Iknow, when I came on in season
three, I think he had a prettygood idea that he wanted to end

(06:30):
the show in season six.
Um, and I don't quite know if heknew exactly all the pieces that
were gonna be there on the finalepisode.
But I will say, as about a yearor so ago, I think in season
five, maybe end of season four,season five, we actually he did,
you know, kind of start writingpieces of the series finale

(06:53):
because um for those of you whohave seen it or probably will
have seen it now on Hulu or allthat, um we have a lot of stuff
that was shot um a year ago umthat was used in the series
finale because as you know, wehave in different go in
different timelines, and we havea lot of younger actors who are

(07:15):
playing our, you know, theyounger versions of our adult
actors and the original, youknow, younger actors who played
the younger versions of the bigthree, you know, they were
growing as children do, um can'tstop, you know, stop them in
time.
So they were becoming teenagers,and um, you know, I think that

(07:36):
it was an amazing idea on Dan'spart to shoot the stuff ahead of
time.
So we were able to capture themas they were at that age, and
it's almost like time stoodstill.
So I think because of that, whenwe got into this final season,
literally about half of the thefinal episode had already been
shot.
So it was just filling in um allof the present day stuff at that

(08:00):
point.

James Duke (08:01):
Wow, that's really interesting.
That's the the uh um the the thewriting process for a show like
this, where you were not only doyou have all these different um
you know characters in withinthe family that you have to keep
track of with their ownstorylines, but you have their
their younger selves.
So you're you're you're jumpingin time.

(08:24):
Um what was can you just talk alittle bit about the process in
the room of like was there a wayin which you guys kept track of
all these characters in thedifferent timelines?
Um uh what was the process interms of of knowing kind of
where everybody was and and uhall the characters were in the
in the process?

SPEAKER_01 (08:45):
Yeah, so I think first off, when I first uh
joined, they had already therewas on the wall, like um above
the the board with all of ourcards and everything, there was
a big timeline that had beencreated of just like you know,
major events, births, you know,uh big three were born here, all

(09:08):
those different things.
But I'll say our scriptcoordinator who's who um is now
she was staffed on the show.
So she is now executive storyeditor on the show.
She's so amazing because shekind of she was on the show
since season one.
She basically is the historianof the show.
Like um she is the keeper of itall, and she knows if you have

(09:32):
any questions about you're doingsomething, you're like, hey,
have we, you know, said thatalready?
Like, have we established, youknow, uh that someone has, you
know, sister is still alive orwhatever the case may be.
She's the one that you know wego to.
So I think you know, it's it'skind of difficult because I

(09:54):
think sometimes when we'rebreaking stuff, we're like,
wait, did we we wrote that wasin a script, but did we error
that?
Can we change that?
You know, so sometimes you canget caught up by things that
you've said and you have tostick to as far as the history
and the lore.
And the fans of the show arereally good about remembering

(10:14):
the lore.
They'll call you out.

James Duke (10:19):
Like uh that's that's that's one of those
things that's very differentabout television today than it
was years ago.
And I you know, you'd get viewermail back in the day, but you
guys get real-time current onTwitter and social media.
Hey, why did you let thathappen?
Why did you, you know, why'd youdo that to Toby?

SPEAKER_01 (10:39):
You know, we don't think you have all the Twitter.
Yeah, the weirdest thing to methough, with the this season, as
we're done, I've seen us somestuff on Twitter about I think
once in one episode, way backwhen they before I think I came
on staff, they mentioned thatRebecca had a sister.

(10:59):
And for some reason, Twitter waslike, what happened to her
sister?
Why haven't we learned anythingabout her sister?

James Duke (11:07):
It's a conspiracy.

SPEAKER_01 (11:08):
Yeah.
All the details.
I mean, it's a good thing thatpeople are so locked into the
details of it all.
And I think that's a big part ofthe show.
Um, we literally, that's theother part that I think when I
came on staff, it was verydifficult for me at first to um

(11:30):
even figure out how to pitch forthe show because because it
literally is taking yourstories, your ideas could
literally be in any portion orpart of these people's lives.
It's so broad, also so veryspecific, but also so broad in
where your imagination can go.

(11:50):
I think I had to learn kind ofhow to you know get my mind to
to work that way.
So, but that's the cool partabout it.
I find it's fun now.

James Duke (11:58):
Yeah.
Do you uh uh I know you, I knowyou I know you can't play
favorites, but I mean when youhave a when you have such an
amazing cast, like that's one ofthe things about this is us,
right?
It's just such a such afantastic ensemble cast,
particularly with the big three,but you know, all the entire
cast.
Do you did you uh did youparticularly enjoy writing uh um

(12:23):
one one character's voice inparticular?
Was there was there was there acharacter that you kind of
really identified with that youalways felt like you got a
little extra something, even youyourself?
Or or or even maybe a better wayto ask the question is were
there any characters in the showthat you felt like reflected you
as you wrote in kind of yourthoughts on the world and things

(12:44):
like that?

SPEAKER_01 (12:45):
Yeah, I'd say, I mean, first off, I've done most
of my so I've written fourepisodes um over the course of
my time on the show.
I usually wrote one episode perseason.
And two of my episodes were sortof specialized episodes, but
I've done a couple of episodeswith um Susan Kelecci Watson,

(13:09):
who plays uh Beth on the show.
And um I don't know if I haveone character that I enjoy sort
of writing for more, but I wouldsay that um, you know, with her
episodes that I've done withher, um, Our Little Island Girl
and then Our Little Island GirlPart Two, those episodes were
really special and I connectedwith um very deeply on a

(13:31):
personal level, um, because itit goes into sort of her past as
someone who, a young black womanwho wanted to be a dancer.
And so that was kind ofdirectly, you know, my life.
Um so when I write, wrote OurLittle Island Girl, the first
one, it was very much so in away that I wasn't expecting that

(13:53):
I would have that opportunity.
It was very much, very personal,very specific, um, in a lot of
things that were me.

James Duke (14:02):
Did they know that when they assigned that script
to you?
Did they know that about you?

SPEAKER_01 (14:07):
Yes.
So so the fact that she was adancer, actually, the funny part
is is that well, God knew itbecause he I wasn't even, I
wasn't there yet when Dandecided to make uh everybody had
been wanting to see bestbackstory, and Dan had decided
they're gonna do it seasonthree.

(14:28):
And he, Susan Kalecchi Watson,has a dance background, and so
he thought, oh, let's make her adancer without any sort of
specificity or whatever, justthe idea.
And um, once I came on staff,uh, and once we got to the point
where we were actually breakingthe story for that episode, I
just started like nobody else inthe room had any sort of dance

(14:51):
background, not even a littlebit, not even like a scoosh.
Like, so, and I was, you know,new writer on staff.
I was, I didn't even know if Iwas gonna get an episode to
write that season.
That's what I was told by theshowrunners.
So I was, you know, once thatcame up in the room, I just
started pitching like crazy.
I mean, just basically about mylife, uh, you know, studying

(15:14):
mostly ballet, being the onlyblack uh girl in an all-white
like environment in the balletworld, what that was like for
me, how it felt having thisdream, um, you know, all those
things.
And so once a couple days ofthat, I remember the showrunners
came back in one day to the roomand they're like, okay, so
Ebony's gonna write this episodebecause none of us know what the

(15:37):
heck we're doing when it comesto dance.
So yeah, that was how I got thatwas how I got the episode.

James Duke (15:44):
That's great.
That's great.
Yeah, talk a little bit aboutthe writer's room experience for
This Is Us for a lot of um ouraudience who are you know
they're who are interested inwriting for television.
Give us a little bit of the nutsand bolts experience there.
So um you talked about gettingthat episode.
So what does that mean for theuninitiated?
So you came on as a staff writerin season three, and uh you said

(16:10):
you were pitching.
So, what is it, what what's theprocess of like who gets to
write episodes and how did youget to write episodes?
And then if you're not writing aquote unquote episode, what else
are you doing in the room?

SPEAKER_01 (16:23):
Yeah, that's a a great question.
So um really, so when I gothired as a staff writer, um, and
this was I can't remember whogave me this advice, but a
writer that I knew that wasworking in the business gave me
an advice to um basically, I wasgonna have a call with the
showrunners on kind of like whatthey were expecting of me and

(16:46):
all that stuff.
And and um, you know, so theythey gave me what they were
expecting of me as a staffwriter, which was basically I
would be in the room um to toyou know take some time to kind
of see how they worked, um, andthen and then you know, pitch
from there.
Um and they told me right offthe bat that as a staff writer,

(17:10):
because we have like we do 18episodes for the show, and
there's about 13 of us,including you know, our
showrunners.
Um, and so most of thehigher-ups, how it works on the
show, most of the higher-ups,they do at least two episodes
per season.
Um, and you know, Dan Fogelmanis gonna do the first episode,

(17:30):
the last final episode, theshowrunners are gonna do two
episodes, all that stuff.
So really, it's like they'relike, we may or may not give you
one.
And also, just for the listenersto know, when you get hired as a
staff writer, usually it's justa 20-week initial contract.
So the show, at least for abroadcast show, is gonna go
beyond those 20 weeks.

(17:51):
And that's basically becausethey're like, we don't know, we
might want to like fire you, youknow, um, if it doesn't work
out.
So yeah.
So, you know, so with the show,um how they do it is most of
most of all of our jobs, nomatter if you're a co-EP or a

(18:11):
staff writer, all of our job isbasically every day going into
the writer's room or being overZoom on a writer's room, and we
are breaking story for theepisodes.
Um and basically once, dependingon what you know the showrunners
decide, as we're breaking story,sometimes it's decided before

(18:32):
they pick, they decide thatwhich writer is going to take
that story and go off and writeit.
And um, and yeah, so some showsI've heard from other people,
um, other writers that I know,some shows actually um group
write episodes, I've heard,where you know, I think one
person does get the the credit,but they break it up and and

(18:54):
sort of kind of do it that way.
But with our show, it's verymuch um, if you're not in the
writer's room, you're probablydoing these things.
You're you're off on an episode,writing your episode, or you
might be in production.
So with our show as well, we gotthe opportunity to, if once you
write the episode, you're alsoproducing it.

(19:16):
So you're doing all the thingsum to produce the episode.
You're going to all the meetingsfrom you know, costumes to uh
props to all that stuff, tonemeetings with the director.
And so you, if you're not in thewriter's room, you might be on
set, you know, for your episode.
So that's essentially, butagain, that's like the maybe the

(19:36):
writing process is about a monthof your time there, but and then
being on set is you know anothercouple of weeks or so.
So most of my time is actuallywas actually in the writer's
room breaking story on whateverepisode we were at that point.

James Duke (19:51):
You know, I always find the excuse me, the the
hierarchical nature of awriter's room so fascinating,
and that, you know, the There'sthese steps and these roles that
you know it and um and and yetwhat I've also always found
fascinating is uh I've I've I'vetalked to a lot of different
people about their writing roomexperiences, including

(20:13):
showrunners.
And and there there tends to besome consistent things I I hear.
One is um that writers' roomscan be very tough because
because you're in there everyday with each other and you're
just literally you're justtalking, you're just talking all
day to each other about yourlives, about what's going on,

(20:35):
about the story.
Like you're you're all you'reall mining right each other's
lives for stuff that you canwrite for the characters, right?
Um, so it can get tough, right?
I've heard it can get very toughand intense.
But then the other thing I'vealso ever always heard too is
that writers are so generouswith new and upcoming writers,
like older right seasonedwriters tend to always try to

(20:57):
appreciate and value the hardwork that young writers put into
it.
And they try if they if they seethe work being put into it,
they'll help them along the way.
I'm just curious, was that youron this show?
Was that did that does that ringa bell?
Or the was your experiencesimilar in both of those ways?

SPEAKER_01 (21:16):
Yes, um, most definitely.
I think like number one, we weretalking about just the nature of
being in the writer's room for,and this is before Zoom when we
were together in person foreight plus hours.
Um, you know, it I think I wasshocked by how I would go home

(21:38):
and and feel exhausted, justlike my brain.
I'm like, my brain like hurts.
Like I'm not used to, you know,it's like I wasn't running
around doing anything, like, youknow, it's pretty you're you're
sitting there in a chair thiswhole time, but like I'm tired,
I'm exhausted because I've justbeen thinking all day and you

(22:00):
know, solving problems and allthose things.
And sometimes it can get reallyemotional, especially on our
show, if you can imagine thekinds of issues that shocking.

James Duke (22:10):
Shocking, the writers room for this just in
breaking news.
The writer's room for this is usgot emotional every once in a
while.

SPEAKER_01 (22:17):
Right.
Shocker, right?
Um, so there were there were alot of moments that you know
where you are being incrediblyvulnerable to other people on
your staff to your coworkers ina way that any other probably
job or whatever you wouldn't be.
Um, and I think that when Ifirst joined, um, it was like

(22:40):
you said, like at least on thisshow, it was definitely everyone
very much so welcomed me.
And as, you know, and with ourhigher ups, um, definitely were
there to, you know, offeradvice.
Um, you know, just if if you hadany, because the thing is you

(23:01):
have your showrunners, right?
And they're doing a million andone things.
They're, they're, they are busy.
Um, they've got a lot going on.
And so I think what's reallygreat about those who are like
the co-ep level, who a lot ofthe writers who are co-EP level,
they might have had their ownshows at some point, which on

(23:22):
our show we have a couplewriters who, you know, they've
been writing for a while andjust like seasoned veterans in
the business.
And so it was really great to beable to um come to them with
whether it's questions about,you know, kind of like getting
feedback from them on how you'redoing in the room, if you're not
quite sure, or even likequestions about the business,

(23:43):
um, you know, for other thingsum that you may need a little
bit of advice for.
So I definitely got that.
Um, I I still get that.
I still, I mean, I text, youknow, the writers on the show
that are like, you know, Iconsider, I really admire them
and I admire their advice.

(24:04):
And especially now that I'mgoing into like developing and
stuff like that, I'm constantlybothering and asking questions.
And hey, you know, you know,what should I do about this?
Or can I see what you did forthis and all those things?
So um, yeah, they they've beenan amazing help, and I've
learned a lot from all of them.

James Duke (24:24):
All right.
So then my last this is usquestion, then we'll move on.
Uh I know there's a lot of thisis us fans out there, they want
that.
Okay, so from and this is justyour opinion.
So this that you can you cantake you can answer this however
you want, you know, if it wasconversations in the room with
other people, or just you, justyou as a writer and uh and I'm
assuming you were also a fan ofthe show.

(24:46):
Maybe you hated the show, youI'm just kidding.
Uh but um you know, post thefinale, um what do you think?
Um, what do you think lifelooked like for the big three
going forward?
Like if there was an like wherewhere where do you, you know, do
you did you guys talk about thator just you yourself, like just

(25:06):
you know, as a fan as of thecharacters, like what do you
think uh happens to the bigthree um going forward?

SPEAKER_01 (25:15):
Well, uh, I think that it's interesting because
the show when the show starts,the character Kevin's character,
he's sort of the most um Randallis incredibly successful as well
in his career and in his familyand all that stuff.
But Kevin is like the super,he's like the actor, he's rich

(25:36):
rich and famous and all thosestuff.
And I think it's reallyinteresting that by the time we
get towards the end of theseries, Kevin is living a
simpler life.
Um, he is sort of um, you know,not so much in the limelight or
worried about being thelimelight like he was.
He is, you know, finallysettled, married, he has

(25:58):
children, all those things thathe's wanted.
And so, you know, I'd imaginethat that, you know, I think
that's what, you know, sort oftheir lives are gonna look like.
I think Randall and the way thatwe envision him, and for those
that watch the final episode,um, you know, he makes a comment
about the DNC and all thatstuff.

(26:18):
And so I think in our brains,you know, we didn't want to go
there and just say it.
We didn't, you know, um, but Ithink he has, I would I would
envision that I don't know if hewill become president of the
United States, but I, you know,I think he would definitely run.
Um, and I think he would havesome sort of long career in
politics and um, you know, justsort of take Kevin's place as

(26:41):
being in the limelight in sortof his later years of his life.
Um and and yeah, and I thinkKate, you know, she's we say it,
you know, she's she's doing alot as far as the music school
and and and working with youknow the blind and all that
stuff.
So I think you know, hertrajectory is probably similar

(27:02):
to that.
Um, I didn't really envisionmuch more, but but yeah, I think
it's I think it's reallyinteresting.
I think, yeah, Randall, Randallis gonna be a really, really big
deal.

James Duke (27:11):
And um, yeah, so I okay, I do have one more
question, but um it's it's youknow, it's more of a comment
too, but just curious yourthoughts.
I I think in addition to justgreat writing and great um
acting that made the show sopopular.

(27:33):
Um I there's not a lot of showsthat really celebrate like
there's a lot of families.
I mean, there's a lot of showsthat actually show families.
But but this is us trulycelebrates family.
It celebrates family bonds, itcelebrates um what unites
people, what divides people.
Obviously, it talks about evenuh family outside of blood

(27:58):
family, you know, like there'sthere's these bonds that connect
us and make us family, and it'sand it's really celebrated.
And I'm just curious what yourthoughts are on that, because in
the end, that's what I think isone of the biggest takeaways of
the show is that there was thisreal sense of uh everyone's
family is unique and differentand special.
But in the end, um when familyworks, when family works well,

(28:22):
it works really well to thebenefit of you know everyone in
the family.
There's this real sense of loveand acceptance and community
inside a family.

SPEAKER_01 (28:32):
Yeah, I think I'd have to agree with with
everything you said, and I thinkthat's why um for me, I loved
Dan Fogelman's this decision,creative decision on how he did,
you know, ended the show on thatfinal episode.
Because I know, like, you know,the train, you know, when

(28:53):
Rebecca passes, that's you know,such a creative moment.
It's such an emotional moment.
And um, you know, I absolutelylove that episode as well.
But I think like our finalepisode is very indicative of
like what our show has been as awhole, like it's about it really
at the end of the day, it'sabout um the bonds of family and

(29:17):
the small moments and thosethings that you know, those
milestones, like I mean, evenjust the scene of them if him
teaching them to shave and likethat's really what the show is,
in my opinion.
And yes, we've done all theflashboards and the future and
the mysteries kind of and allthat stuff.

(29:38):
And and um, but I think at theend of the day, like when you
think about the legacy of theshow, that's what I think about
is like when you watch This IsUs, it makes you it takes you
back to your childhood, it takesyou back to like what it felt
like to sort of go through thegrowing pains that we're
watching the big three gothrough.

(29:59):
And then for those who areexperiencing parenthood now,
they're you know, they'reexperiencing all those things
that the big three areexperiencing.
Um, and I I really love too thethe his decision to sort of, you
know, a lot of it was uh it endson Randall looking at Deja and

(30:21):
her future grandchild and hisfuture grandchild.
And in the past, it's Jack andRandall.
And I think that was a reallyinteresting choice, too, because
those are the two adoptedmembers of, you know, sort of
that family.
But even so, not being blood, asDeja is carrying on um the

(30:43):
Randall's history of William andall that stuff, so it so did
Randall, you know, sort of carryon really like the Jack legacy.
Um, so yeah, so that's why Ijust I I just love, love, love
how Dan, you know, put ittogether and and and wrote that.
I just thought it was reallytruly beautiful.

(31:06):
Um, and yeah, it just gives youthose nostalgic uh feelings
about what it means to be afamily and and all of that.
So yeah.

James Duke (31:15):
I I really do think that that's and I think about
even the there's another showthat ended the same time you
guys did, which I also it wasblackish, right?
Like blackish, same thing,right?
Celebrated families,specifically the black family
experience.
But I mean, it was a show that Icould watch with my kids.
I mean, it because it familydynamics are universal, and oh

(31:36):
yeah, um, and it was aridiculously funny show, and um,
and so yeah, it's interestingthat both shows are ending at
the same time.
Um, I think that did it airopposite, you guys.
Now that I think about it, Iwonder did it air opposite?

SPEAKER_01 (31:50):
This is you know what?
I don't know because I feel likeblackish switched times a few
times, like I think they did.
I yeah, I feel like we've alwaysbeen on Tuesdays, yeah.
Um, at least since I joined,we've always been on Tuesdays,
but and I feel like Blackish waslike Thursday at one point, and
I don't know, but yeah, I thinkanother really great yeah.

James Duke (32:12):
Um let's let's talk a little bit about um how you
became a screenwriter.
You you grew up in the church.
Was was the idea of beingworking in Hollywood and being a
professional screenwriter uh inyour family and in where you
grew up?
Was that something that was umaccepted and normal?

(32:32):
Was that was that did that andand was that even something you
were interested in as a youngperson?
Because I know you obviously youwere in the arts because you
were a dancer, um, or was thissomething that came to you uh uh
later, your passion to write?

SPEAKER_01 (32:45):
Yeah, so I grew, you know, growing I grew up in LA
and and um surprisingly so, eventhough well, I had a bit of a
childhood on the East Coast, butfrom like 11 on, I was in LA.
And I gotta say, I'd never notonce thought about working in
Hollywood.

(33:08):
Like it did not, that's great,even, it wasn't even a thought
in my mind.
Now, granted, I didn't, therewas no one in my family who you
know did that or was any on mymom or my dad's side, there was
really no connection that we hadto the business.
I think one of my brothers likeum best friends, he he was an

(33:31):
actor.
So that was probably the onlylike actor we knew, and he he
had done some stuff.
Um, but yeah, like truly, it hadnot crossed my mind.
And really at the time, I wasmost of my early school years,
really through high school, Iwas very much interested in
dance, and I very much wanted topursue that as a career.

(33:53):
Uh, and so when I quit in highschool and I went off to college
at the University of Michigan, Ireally was one of those students
that had no idea, likeabsolutely no idea what I wanted
to do with my life.
And so I jumped from likephysical therapy.
I thought maybe I want to be aphysical therapist because maybe

(34:14):
that will allow me to work withdancers and and keep, you know,
keep in that that world.
And then when I decided thatwasn't for me, um, I sort of
moved into like a morecommunications major.
And it it was sports managementand communications, so it had
sort of a side of like sportsbusiness.
But um, you know, even doingthat, I sort of threw myself

(34:38):
into that because I really justdidn't know what else I wanted
to do.
So I was like, sports is alucrative business, like, you
know, I guess.
Like, so when I tell you Iworked for the athletic
department, I I mean, I was Iwas in it, I was trying to make
it make it work.
Um, but the summer before mysenior year, I had an

(34:59):
internship.
I came back out out here to LA.
I had an internship um for FX,which was on the Fox lot.
So I now I'm like in that world.
Um, it's in publicity.
And um, I was really like, youknow, it was a small department
at that time.
Um, this was like over 10 yearsago, so I'm sure they're bigger

(35:21):
now.
Um, but they, you know, I workedfor them and I was sort of bored
because they didn't have muchfor me to do.
Um, and so I just I remember oneday there was like a script
lying next to my desk, justlying around.
And I was bored.
So I picked it up.
I don't even know what it wasfor.
I think it was like for a showthat didn't quite get on air or

(35:44):
something like that.
But um I just read it and I waslike, oh wow, this is
interesting.
Like, oh yeah, duh, people dothis.
Like I watch TV, I watch movies,but it's not like how it is now,
where like with everyone'sobsessed with knowing who wrote
the stuff.
Like writers, people weren't,you know, you you knew

(36:06):
directors, you knew who youcould name directors, you knew
who Spikley was, you knew whoSteven Spielberg was, you know,
all that.
Um, and so I just it was likeliterally when it was like a
light bulb went off, like anaha, you know, as Oprah was
saying, moment.

James Duke (36:21):
Someone, someone actually someone actually gets
paid to write these things.

SPEAKER_01 (36:25):
Yeah.
I was like, oh, cool.
So then I literally, when I sayI got on the computer at work,
went on Amazon, or and this isbefore Amazon Prime, so you
know, ordered the ordered, Iprobably typed in how to write a
screenplay, whatever the firstbook was, came to my house and I

(36:48):
read the book from cover tocover, and I took the principles
of the book and I wrote ascreenplay.
And it was about right what youknow, it was about being a
resident advisor at a Midwestcollege in the Midwest.
Um, and that was basically whatit was about.
And um I enjoyed the process,and so I was like, okay, hey,

(37:09):
let me write another one.
And so I wrote a second script.
And by that time, I was like,Well, I really like this.
This is really cool.
I think it was tapping intosomething creative that I a
creative outlet.
I mean, I was always creative.
I danced, I was, you know, so itwas just like, oh, this is I
really find this to be fun.
So when I went back for mysenior year in Michigan, I

(37:29):
enrolled in um a uhscreenwriting course in the film
school for the for the first myfirst semester back for my
senior year.
Again, like just my favoriteclass.
I was so excited about it, sointo it.
We I wrote another originalscreenplay.
And then basically that classgave me a lot of like confidence

(37:51):
that, oh, maybe I have a littlebit of a nap for this.
And I think my professor wasvery encouraging.
And so the second semester, myfinal semester before I
graduated, I took um their sortof uh second class after that
class, which is where yourewrite the script that you
wrote in the first uh class.
And so by that time, um by thetime I was getting ready to

(38:14):
graduate, I was very much like,I'm moving back to LA and I'm
gonna be a writer.
Like that was the point where Ilike said it out loud.
Like, um, and I feel like myparents were like, all right,
like I mean, I don't, you know,they didn't like they were very
encouraging.
I think they were very muchlike, well, you got to get a
job.
Like obviously I knew how to getlike a job and there were bills

(38:36):
to be paid and I had studentloans to pay off.
So there was never like, I wasnever that type of person where
it was like blah they blah, I'mjust gonna like kind of, you
know.
So yeah, I came back and um Ithink naively, I thought it
after that first year, I wasgonna, you know, sell a
screenplay and make millions.

(38:57):
Um, and it took almost 10 years.
Um, and so yeah, that wasbasically the process, but uh it
was yeah.

James Duke (39:05):
So you were you were in college when you discovered
this passion.
And what was it?
You you know, you mentioned youreally liked it, and so you
wanted to do it again.
What was it that you liked?
I mean, you talked about being acreative outlet, but I'm just
curious in terms of when youfind something new, what is it

(39:26):
that makes you want to go backto the well and do it again and
again?
What do you what what what ex Idon't know if you can remember
those feelings, remember thosethoughts, but what was it that
made you want to say, you knowwhat, I liked this, I want to
write again.

SPEAKER_01 (39:39):
Yeah, I think I just like I think it was the
storyteller in me.
Like, even as a dancer, I wasalways, I think I more so skewed
on the, you know, I think if Ipictured my life as a dancer, it
would probably be more as achoreographer.
Like I would probably be one ofthose dancers that dances
professionally for a littlewhile.

(40:00):
but quickly goes into the thechoreographer route.
I was more into telling storiesin that way.
And so I think when it came tothe screenplay of it all, I just
I really enjoyed telling storiesrelated mostly for me, relatable

(40:20):
stories about things that wereconnected to my life.
And um you know I thought I waspretty good at uh pretty good at
you know developing characters.
And so I think it was just Ithink what drew me to it was I
felt like I had a knack for it.
And um you know I think that wasone of the reasons why I kept

(40:43):
pursuing it is because I feltlike and I felt like I was
getting positive feedback fromother people that like hey you
you know obviously you have tokeep developing your craft but
that I have something there thatwas worth developing I guess.
Yeah.

James Duke (41:03):
Why did you quit dancing?

SPEAKER_01 (41:06):
Because I knew I wasn't going to make it as a
professional dancer.

James Duke (41:10):
I truly I quit I like how I I I like how
practical and realistic you areI love it.
But but why what what made youwhat made you how did you come
to that conclusion?

SPEAKER_01 (41:21):
Yeah so I was very much on um I danced like I got
into it like six or seven yearsold.
And um when I got to be like 11or 12 I got really into it where
I was on like a uh I went to Iwas in Debian Dance Academy for
a little while um when I when Igot to like 12 years old.

(41:43):
And that is very much like asemi-professional track as far
as like you're taking 16, 18classes a week.
You are yeah you it is your lifeand you are really training um
on a high level with high levelteachers to you know go into the
professional uh professionalworld and so I think once I got

(42:08):
there um and I I one thing aboutme I was a very hard worker I I
worked very very hard and I knewthat about myself and my
teachers saw that in me and allthat stuff.
But I recognized the because thething about dancing is you know
yes you can work hard but thereare certain things physically

(42:30):
and certain natural abilitiesthat you just you need to have
it you need that part and thenyou need the other part.
But um I think I recognized inmyself there were certain
natural abilities that just itwas going to make it very very
difficult for me.
And so it just I think it mademe um a little bit uh it's it

(42:51):
sort of made me lose a littlebit of my love of it at the time
because as a teenager I'm like Ilove this so much I work so hard
I'm dedicating my life younglife to this and and I why don't
I have the things that theseother young dancers have I wish
I had you know her feet her legsher whatever and so I think I

(43:14):
got disillusioned by it and sothat was the reason why I quit I
was just like I don't think thatI can uh realistically put more
years of my life into uh reallybecause the dance world is just
as cut I mean that's a cutthroatworld it's hard world and so I
feel like you know I just didn'tthink that I had it in me

(43:35):
essentially I I've I've knownsome dancers in my in my life
and I I uh some of the beststorytellers I know uh or have
known um have been dancers likethe I I I understand what you're
saying in terms of that I alsoknow that they all have feet
problems they all have that'sthe downside you know what kind

(43:59):
of dancer were you so I mostlyum mostly ballet um and uh do
you still do you still have feetdid you quit enough or do you
still have feet problemsyourself?

James Duke (44:11):
Oh I don't have any feet problems because I quit so
I didn't do when I got intopoint which is what creates all
those problems I probably didpoint for about maybe three
three or four years before Iquit and so um and even then I
wasn't when we were at when Iwas at Devon Dance Academy we

(44:32):
were doing ballet but we werealso doing modern and jazz and
all and it was a little bit morewell rounded and so I wasn't on
point shoes like ballet dancersare all day every day um
essentially um so my feet areare perfectly for anyone who
wants to know I feel yeah yeahyeah inquiring Maya that's weird

(44:53):
but okay um TMI sorry um so youum so in that you mentioned you
know it uh that kind of that 10year journey for you um which is
something we talk about at actone a lot um so inside that 10
year journey you actually youhad a career you had a different

(45:14):
career and so you were you werewriting right developing your
writing career but but full timeyou were going to work at at uh
fox sports or something rightisn't that right yes yes i had a
whole career like what did itell you i so i started pretty
early on when i graduated iended up getting a job at fox

(45:35):
sports um basically from myconnections from the internship
from knowing people in hr overthere and so um i got an
opportunity to be an executiveassistant to the um eVp in
graphics um at fox sports and soi didn't know anything about
graphics but it was an executiveassistant job I didn't need to

(45:57):
um and so I was like great I cando this it was a very much like
eight to five job um and I canwrite and I really genuinely
thought that like maybe I wouldbe in the job one to two years
max and then I would transitionto writing but um you know that
as the year after the first yearwent by as executive assistant

(46:18):
the my boss he he liked me andso he offered me a promotion as
a coordinator and so I was likeokay great more money like so I
moved to coordinator and thenyou know do I did that job for a
year or two and so basically mytime at Fox Sports I ended up
while I'm writing I ended upmoving up in the department um

(46:42):
all the way to producer leveland so by that time when I was
like at producer level I wasreally um you know I had my own
projects that was working on Iworked the Women's World Cup um
I you know I was really doingwell at Fox Sports and I think
even though I was writing andand at this time I was mostly

(47:04):
writing features um I wasn'treally seeing much you know
there will be little here andthere were you know like oh I
got a manager now.

SPEAKER_01 (47:14):
Okay, great.
I have a manager that's a win orwhatever or oh I'm a part of
this new writer's group and youknow this is this is really
going to help me get a littlebit further you know in my craft
and all that stuff.
Oh I have an interview for ashowrunner's assistant or I have
an interview for a writer'sassistant then don't get the
jobs you know so it was a lot ofthose things happening um and it

(47:37):
just not not enough nothingreally was happening and so I
just kept taking the the bumpsat Fox Sports kept taking the
promotions because you know whywhy not?
And I genuinely liked the peoplethat I worked with.
I mean I really liked the peoplethat I worked with like I'm
still friends with them today.
Like I still talk to my managersand my bosses at Fox that's how

(48:01):
much that's great.
That's that's that's reallygood.
Yeah yeah so but um but yeahreally it was a crossroads for
me it got to the point whereafter I worked at the Women's
World Cup I remember that summerI mean and I that was a hard
that whole women's world cupthat was a lot of work and I

(48:21):
remember after it being asuccess and I thought to myself
hmm maybe I should just do thislike maybe this is you know
maybe this is the crossroads ofme deciding like get rid of
writing once and for all andjust pursue this career Fox
Sports because people liked me.

(48:42):
I was just like I could reallygo far here and probably be
fine.
And I remember actually my uh aboyfriend that I had at the time
he was like he's an entrepreneurand he gave me um a podcast to
listen to it was um Dave Ramseyhad you know he has multiple

(49:03):
stuff but he had a podcastentree leadership which is
mostly geared towards likepeople salespeople and um I
listened to this podcast thisone episode and it talked about
it's basically him talking tothese sales people who are
complaining about the resultsand all this stuff and he's
basically like basically liketelling them you're not doing

(49:24):
enough like you're you know whydon't you basically put so much
activity so much work within hesays a 90 it was a three month
period put so much activity thatliterally creates a combustion
and I'm probably not saying thiscompletely right but I remember
it was just like go go go ashard as you can for three months

(49:45):
and then and then come back andtell me you don't have any
results.
And so it just clicked with meand I was like hmm maybe I'll
try that this will be my lastsort of hurrah and see you know
if this is really what I want todo.
And that's what I did.
I literally I wrote as manyscripts as I could I just just

(50:06):
started writing scripts afterscript after script after
script.
And I also one of the big thingsthat I did at that time was I
changed from writing screenplaysto TV pilots because I felt like
at that time what was happeningin the TV landscape was really
exciting.
There were stories that werebeing told that I wanted to tell

(50:26):
black women at the forefront ofthese stories and I was like
okay this is the medium that Iwant to be in.
And so those two things togetherchanged your TV um you know just
put like I was put where I waslike you know kind of a hermit
in a in a little cave like if myfriends were hitting me up to do

(50:47):
anything it was always I can'tI'm writing I can't I'm writing
I was that was constantly like Ididn't do anything for three
months.
And one of the scripts that Iwrote out of that three month
period I applied to a bunch ofTV fellowships and I got into
Sundance episodic lab and thatchanged everything.
So that was really thetrajectory.

James Duke (51:10):
That's great because excuse me um you you you you
said a lot there in terms ofjust I think a lot a lot there's
a lot to to for people toprocess who might be in a
similar um similar situationbecause you know a couple of
things one is um you know Ialways I've always told people

(51:31):
um in any kind of space workbegets work begets work begets
work in other words take the jobright like don't just sit around
don't just say no to everyopportunity that comes your way
and just sit around hoping andwaiting for the opportunity
right like instead if it's alegitimate opportunity I'm not
saying you know go do any singlething but I'm saying like work

(51:53):
does beget work it leads toother work because more times
than not especially in ourbusiness so much of that work
comes from relationships andpeople who meet you in other
contexts and they and they youknow they they will let people
know or they will let you knowabout an opportunity you know
that kind of thing.
But the other thing too isyou're gaining skills you're

(52:15):
gaining you know as a writeryou're you're living you know
it's lived experiences thatcreate a deeper well in which
you can write from all that kindof stuff.
And of course you know you gotto pay the bills.
So you know it's kind ofimportant you know um no
starving artists around herethat's right that's right
exactly and so um you know thatto me uh speaks volumes right so

(52:40):
if you're listening to thispodcast and you're sitting in
your mom's basement and you'regonna be a basement and you're
refusing to go out and get thatjob because you want to write
the next great Americanscreenplay I think Ebby and I
are saying together go get a jobget a job that's right go get a

(53:04):
job.
But no more than that like I Ithink what one of the things I
think is great about your yourjourney is um you you you
actually said to yourself I'mgoing to go until I can't go
anymore.
And then and then you talk aboutthis idea of hitting it really

(53:24):
hard for a certain period oftime.
And I think that's kind ofpretty awesome um what when you
were just when you were justtrying to crank out scripts
right when you were just likeI'm gonna hit it hard I'm just
gonna crank out these scripts umwhat were you using as kind of a
gauge um that what you werewriting was you know any good

(53:48):
was worthwhile uh you know likeuh because that's the other
thing that I hear all the timewell I don't have anybody to
read my stuff I don't haveanybody to tell me you know and
yet here you are you're justlike okay fine I'm gonna go an
intense period of time I'm justgonna write right right right
right what in what what was agauge for you?
How did what was that processlike for you?

SPEAKER_01 (54:06):
Yeah that's a really good question.
So yeah during that time when Iwas going going going cranking
out as many scripts as I can Iwas actually involved in a
writer's group and so I wouldsay during the period of those
10 years I I have been involvedin a handful of writers groups
over the years through peoplerelationships that I have made

(54:27):
people that I knew who knew thatI you know wrote and wanted to
write and you know would sort ofbe connected that way.
So I remember that particularyear I had had a friend of a
friend actually we met we metthrough a friend and at a thing
a writer's thing and he wasstarting up a writer's group and

(54:48):
he invited me to join and soduring that and they were all
also mostly there was one personwho mostly did screenplays but
everybody was mostly um tryingto get into the TV space.
And so um I think that wasreally important for me because
I had you know transitioned towanting to do that.

(55:08):
And so we would meet once a weekum and we would turn in pages
and so everything that I waswriting they were reading they
were giving me notes um and thatwas for that particular pilot
that I um applied to thefellowships for they they read
that pilot.
They gave me notes on that pilotum and that was how I

(55:31):
workshopped it.
And you know I think even thoughyou know obviously as a writers
group we're all you knoweveryone is sort of doing the
best that they can becausethey're not working in the
business yet.
So they're they're we're allworking off the knowledge that
we have um and I think that'sthat's great and that'll get you

(55:53):
far.
And then of course when you dobreak into the business you'll
learn a lot more you know you'llyou'll learn a whole nother
whether whether you whether youlike it or not right whether
that's why I always tell writerstoo I think I think a lot of
writers um sometimes are prettybent on well I have to get my
script and get notes from a aworking writer.

(56:15):
Like I need them to like and I Inever did I never did and I
think number one it's that'svery hard to do because you know
people are busy and and youcan't just be giving your
scripts that so I think like youknow it it goes really far it'll
get you really far to find adedicated group of writers as
yourself who have the work ethicthat you have um and um to can

(56:40):
workshop your your scripts and Ithink that um again agents for
for new writers showrunners I'msure when the showrunners for
this is up read my script I'msure they could have given me a
million different ways I couldhave done better on it but what

(57:00):
they were looking for yes I hada a concept of of the craft and
and of writing a script andscenes and all that stuff I had
the technical stuff down but Ithink more than anything what
they got from my script was whoI was as a writer my voice my
point of view and that's what Ithink leapt off the page.

(57:22):
And so I think don't get boggeddown by the the I have this
thing and and I have to havethis you know professional give
me notes or else I'm not gonnago far I think that's that's not
true.

James Duke (57:35):
I think so that's really that's really good
advice.
I can't I can't agree with youmore try to find writers similar
writers at your level with yourpassion with your work ethic to
write to write to be in awriter's group with where you're
reading their stuff they'rereading your stuff that makes a
yeah that makes a huge thatmakes a huge difference.

(58:00):
One of the things that I'veheard a lot uh people I've
talked with is um particular youknow for writers particularly
for television um but but allwriting in general is POV is
really important right like uhfinding your voice and um and
having having a particular pointof view is really important.

(58:24):
Could you break that down for usjust a tiny bit from your
understanding of what why isthat so important for a young
emerging writer to develop yeahso I think first of all it was
something that didn't reallyclick for me until like

(58:45):
literally when I started writingfor TV and that and that sort of
clicked because when I startedwriting TV pilots the reason why
I wanted to do it I I thought tomyself I said first of all for
the last whatever seven eightyears I've been writing these
screenplays that haven't beengetting any traction because

(59:08):
really quite frankly I waswriting stuff that I thought you
know was popular.

SPEAKER_01 (59:13):
I was writing stuff where I thought oh this this
with the idea of this would sellum and you know I was not really
writing necessarily what I waspassionate about or what you
know really was specific to meas a person.
And so when I asked myself thatquestion what would I want to

(59:36):
watch on TV then that was when Icame up with a story that was
incredibly personal to me.
Now it wasn't like you don'thave to have something that's
like ripped from your life orlike ripped from the headline
sort of thing but it waspersonal to me because it was
very specific to the people Iknew to the way in which from my

(59:59):
perspective Um, you know, peopleinteracted or were um, it was
just my point of view on lifeand the world, I think in that
script was very specific.
Um, and also authentic.
So when you, you know, thereason why it's so important is
because in whatever you do,let's say for TV, your

(01:00:23):
showrunners, let's say for ThisIs Us, we have a show, they're
looking for, you know, we have ashow about a family with these
different sorts of charactersthat are going through, you
know, one has weight issues, onehave, you know, one's adopted
all this stuff.
So you want to have a writer'sroom that um has a diverse, at

(01:00:43):
least more now, they're thinkingthis way, a more diverse uh
point, you know, of a versethought process.
And so that's how you, you know,you get these stories that you
get because we've all livedcompletely different lives.
And I think, you know, when theyread my script, um, which was

(01:01:04):
very, very black woman oriented,like from that lens um and that
point of view, um, I think thatit just resonated.
And so that's why I think, youknow, when when writers ask me
like, what's the one thing thatI can tell them to do?
It's my goodness, write um writesomething that you are again, it

(01:01:31):
doesn't have to be about anautobiographical account of your
life, but something that isspecific to you in some way,
shape, or form.
Um, because you're gonna writeit better.
You're just going to, okay.
You're gonna write, writebetter, you're gonna write, it's

(01:01:52):
gonna be more specific, it'sgoing to feel authentic to
people.
Um, and it's just gonna leap offthe page and it's going to uh
make you um desirable to thosethat are gonna be hiring you to
tell stories.
So yeah, but you know, that'swhat I yeah.

James Duke (01:02:09):
What makes your script unique is your own
uniqueness, right?
Like you.
Yeah, it's you.
And like if I'm reading, if I'mreading 10 different spec
scripts, um the one that's gonnastick out, because they might,
they're probably all at asimilar quality level in terms
of you know, they're writtencompetently or or you know,

(01:02:32):
they're you know, whatever.
But but the more unique yoursis, that's actually what's going
to make it stand out and take inpeople the reader will take
notice and and and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:46):
It's the other thing too is even thinking about this
now as like um being out of thewriter's room and going into
development, when you are soit's like you think of this
idea.
That's why I think it's peoplesometimes are so um uh precious
about ideas, and I thinkespecially like newer writers,
they like, oh my gosh, I can't,I can't tell you my idea because

(01:03:09):
you know that's gonna that's thething, and I don't want anybody
to steal it.
But when you think about pointof view, it's like you we could
literally say, I'm writing ashow about uh a black female
true crime detective in theSouth.
Like we could both have thosesame ideas, and because of how

(01:03:32):
different we are, we will attackthose two ideas completely
differently.
And you know, that's a thingthat comes along when you are
going into meetings and you'redeveloping and you're going out
for like open writingassignments.
Producers want to know you'reyou're basically pitching your
take on something, how you wouldtake the idea, the book they

(01:03:54):
want to turn into a movie,whatever, and you're saying,
This is how I would do it, youknow, like there's this book,
and they're meeting withwhatever how many writers, and
every single one of thosewriters, because of who how
different we are, we're gonnahave our own way, specific way
of how we see that story.

(01:04:15):
And so when you think of pointof view, I think even more now,
um I see the importance of thatand the importance of of how
that works.

James Duke (01:04:24):
So yeah, I a friend of mine says, people always
think like when they uh think oflike you know, the Tarantinos or
the Sorkins of the world, andthey go, um, oh, you know, it's
the way they write dialogue thatum, you know, that's their
voice.
And it and and and he's like,Nope, that's not their voice,

(01:04:44):
that's just the way they writedialogue.
Uh, it's the way they view theworld, it's the way they view
the world and and morespecifically, um, the way they
view those care, the way theyview those characters in that
world, and um and how um theirtheir own unique perspective on

(01:05:04):
the world, um, that that iswhat's gonna get reflected in
the art form, you know, like um,even you know, like I even think
even for you as a dancer back inthe day, right?
Like um you would interpret asong, right?
You would interpret, um, you theyou would, you know, your your

(01:05:25):
body would move to the to the tothe music, but what you were
interpreting was actually yourunderstanding of the emotional
experience of that song, whatthe what the lyrics were saying,
right, right?
And I think that's what we do asartists, right?
We do that as artists, we dothat as writers, we do that as
storytellers, as filmmakers.
And that's kind of the power ofthe the um the beauty of the

(01:05:46):
arts, you know, and we can andwe can help pro we can help
other people, um, the audienceprocess their own emotions.
You know, this is what you know,we go we're going back to the
old school days with Aristotleand the idea of catharsis, and
like to actually give theaudience this this cathartic
experience where they can umprocess their emotions and in an

(01:06:07):
outlet.
And you know, you you're on ashow that was very well known
for allowing people to havecathartic experience.
Um this has been this has beengreat, Ebony.
I really enjoyed um ourconversation, and um, I think
there's so much that I thinkpeople can learn from your
journey and just your um I'mjust so impressed with you.

(01:06:30):
And one of the one of the thingsthat I enjoy about uh uh doing
this podcast is that I think I'mintroducing to our audience
individuals who need our prayer.
And I think just the fact thatpeople get to know you through
this podcast, just know thatyou'll have people praying for
you and uh and praying for theseopportunities for you and all
this good stuff.

(01:06:50):
So, Ebony, thank you so much foruh being a being a part of this.
And um, we really appreciateyour time.
And if it's okay with you, Ialways close my podcast by
praying for my guests.
Would you allow me to do that?

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:02):
Yes, of course.
Thank you.

James Duke (01:07:05):
Heavenly Father, we just uh pause and um just stop
and thank you for who you areand what you do have done for
all of us.
And um, God, we thank you foryour goodness.
And uh and I just want to thankyou now for Ebony and thank you
for just her her life and hertalent and just her giftings,
um, the way she just brings somuch joy into the room.

(01:07:26):
And um God, just pray a blessingupon her.
God, we pray that you would umjust go before her and uh uh
with all these differentopportunities, and God, that you
would um uh just give her justan uh amazing space to do great
things in this business um as awriter and creator.
And God, I pray you would fillher with your creativity and

(01:07:47):
fill her with your imagination,and that she would uh be so
inspired to create uh that itwould just be uh just a huge
overflow.
And um, God, we just pray thatyou would uh protect her, watch
over her um uh through all ofthis.
And and we just thank you forthis opportunity.
And we pray this in Jesus' nameand your promise as we stand.
Amen.

(01:08:08):
Thank you for listening to theAct One podcast, celebrating
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in Hollywood.
Act One is a Christian communityof entertainment industry
professionals who train andequip storytellers to create
works of truth, goodness, andbeauty.
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International.
To financially support themission of Act One or to learn

(01:08:31):
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