Writer/Director Brandon Dickerson

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
People bring this up a lot in freelance writing of
all sorts, like 80% get it outthere.
It's 80% done, or you know, justget it out there and keep going.
Whereas I'll tend to go and justkeep pining over this until I
get to what I think's 110%.
And I've spent, I could havemade five things in that time,
you know.

(00:20):
And I think the people that aredoing well and moving forward
are the ones that just, youknow, churn it, churn it out.

James Duke (00:35):
You are listening to the Act One podcast.
I'm your host, James Duke.
We appreciate you taking sometime out of your day to listen.
And if you like what you hear,be sure to subscribe and leave
us a good review.
My guest today is director andscreenwriter Brandon Dickerson.
Brandon Dickerson is anaward-winning writer, director,
producer honored for his work infilm, documentaries,

(00:57):
commercials, and music videos,including the coveted cons Gold
Lion.
With comprehensive experience asa DGA filmmaker, Dickerson also
enjoys serving as an educator,writer, speaker, and improv
teacher.
Brandon is currently directing,producing his commissioned
screenplay Catherine, the truestory of 1880's social justice
pioneer, Dr.
Catherine Bush.

(01:18):
Earning his MFA and film degreeat Vermont College of Fine Arts,
Brendan continues his dedicationto teaching by investing in the
next generation of storytellersat the VCU Richard T.
Robertson School of Media andCulture, as well as mentoring
students globally as a superprof ambasitor.
Brandon is a talented guy, he'sa sweet guy, funny guy, and I

(01:40):
think he's a deeply thoughtfulperson of faith.
And I really hope you enjoy ourconversation.
Brandon Dickerson, welcome tothe Act One podcast.
It's great to have you on.
So good to be here, James.
Thanks so much.
We were just chatting beforehandabout how we have all these
mutual friends.
You're one of those guys that Ifeel like was in the room

(02:02):
probably at some place, and thenand then you would walk out and
I'd walk into it.
Or I was in a room and then Iwalked out and you walked in.
So we for some reason we nevermet, but I Yeah, let's tell the
true story.

SPEAKER_00 (02:16):
I've tried to meet you a bunch and you've like run
across the room.
You're like, oh, here he comes.

James Duke (02:22):
That's the truth.
No, but it it is funny how uhyou know they always say
Hollywood is a small town.
And I I've just known of so andthen you know, you talk about
the Christian community andHollywood even smaller.
And and so so many people wouldthe reaction that I would get
when I would tell them, youknow, I know of Brandon, I just
have never met him.

(02:43):
The reaction I would get wasalways, really, like you don't
know, like like it was somethingwrong with me.
Like there was some form of somedeformity, there was something
like how could you not knowBrandon?
So anyway, it's great to finallymeet you sort of face to face.

SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
So absolutely, yeah, it's fantastic, man.
It's great.
Great.

James Duke (03:04):
Thanks for you've had a you've had a uh just a
really fascinating career that Iwanted to introduce people to.
And um you you are you are a umuh a writer, director, producer.
You you you've uh worked in alot of different spaces.
Not you you've you've madefeature films, you've um uh been

(03:26):
hired to write uh uh otherpeople's work, you've written in
um the space for uh obviously uhwith music videos and
commercials.
So there's a there's a lot ofstuff I want to talk to you
about, but you've also uh itseems to me lived a very
interesting life.
Your your family has been on alittle bit of a uh an adventure,
and I want to make sure we spentsome time talking about because

(03:47):
you're just so people know,you're coming to me.
We're speaking right now.
I'm sitting in I'm sitting inLos Angeles in my home, and you
are speaking to me from whereyou live now, which is in
Portugal, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 (04:00):
Yeah, and not only Portugal, I I am on an island in
the middle of the AtlanticOcean.
And one of my favorite things todo right now, and sometimes I
can tell if somebody's lookingon their phone or or googling
the Azores.
So we're on the Azores Islands,I'm on Sao Miguel Island, and if
uh you look, you're shocked, itis just these islands in the

(04:22):
middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
So we are thousand milesactually away from Lisbon.
We moved to Lisbon in Septemberand then fell in love with the
Azores here and moved here inMarch.
So yeah, I'm coming to you.
I may get the award for the mostremote uh podcast.
I mean, we are just on thisbeautiful island.

(04:44):
Um, we love it here.

James Duke (04:46):
So well, bravo for technology because the image uh
is crystal clear.
I don't know.
Uh you have fiber on the island,right?

SPEAKER_00 (04:55):
No, they do.
People think we moved toGilligan's Island.
They're like, Do you have, youknow, are there grocery stores
or there's uh it uh yeah, it hasvery fast internet and and and
surfing, which is something Ididn't have when we ended up in
uh in and around Austin.
So back to my California rootsin in a way.

James Duke (05:16):
That's great, bro.
Well, I want to get to kind ofwhy you're there.
We'll we'll we'll we'll getthat.
I want I want to start off justum because one thing is you've
been a pastor, you you you'veobviously spent time in in um in
ministry.
Um and so I want to I was alsothe Kool-Aid man.

SPEAKER_00 (05:33):
I just want it's it's never been documented that
I was for a summer I worked asthe Kool-Aid man.
So I just want to add that aswe're talking resume.
I just want to make sure thatit's noted.
Yeah, oh yeah, we dress up inthe suit and go to grocery
stores and do like specialappearances.
So it's uh it's never beennoted, and I never get the the

(05:55):
um props that I want for havingit.
It was icy bear, and then Iupgraded to Kool-Aid Man for one
summer.

James Duke (06:02):
So that sounds like either that sounds like either
the worst summer job or maybepossibly paid really well in the
80s.

SPEAKER_00 (06:10):
I mean, this was like you made a lot, so it was
great.

James Duke (06:14):
That's great.
I love that.

SPEAKER_00 (06:16):
And I put the Kool-Aid Man suit in a short
film, so I was like, I have themost interesting uh, you know,
uh costume design, whichprobably was illegal to put you
know a copyrighted image, but Ihave some early, early kid short
films in high school thatinclude the Kool-Aid Man,
illegally, I think how to usethem, you just get it in there.

(06:36):
Um yeah, use what you have, usethe tools in hand, right?
That's the that's the filmmaking101.

James Duke (06:42):
Well, so talk to us a little bit about how um how
you came to be.
Um, like where you where are youfrom originally?

SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
Yeah, I grew up in Fullerton.
So um, yeah, behind the orangecurtain down there in the 80s in
Fullerton was the kid that saw amovie called The Champ.
I don't know if you rememberRicky Schroeder and John Voigt.
Yeah, that film destroyed me asa little kid.
I saw it twice and I couldn'tbelieve that you could see the

(07:12):
same movie, know exactly whatwas gonna happen, and it wrecked
you.
And so it was like I was eightyears old and asked my dad what
the you know how these films aremade, and he explained to
director, and everybody elsewanted to be, you know, play for
the Dodgers or be firemen.
And I said I wanted to be a filmdirector.
So I was a very young age, andbeing in California, you know,

(07:35):
you can get some some supportfor that, but that was that was
it.
The classic, you know, VHScamera when I graduated from
eighth grade uh graduation andand sort of haven't stopped
since.
So but yeah, that's where I grewup.
Grew up and grew up in Flirton,California.

James Duke (07:53):
Now, was now did you grow up in a uh a religious
home, a Christian home?

SPEAKER_00 (07:57):
Or I did, you know, um I I had a really well twofold
positive experience.
Then my parents got divorcedwhen I was quite young, which is
actually how I pulled off thevideo camera.
Like I was able to sort of turn,you know, uh guilt gift, was it
a guilt spike?

(08:18):
Yeah, it was.
It was a complete like thatChristmas, I cashed in uh on so
many things.
So um, with all the thenegatives of being a child of
divorce, it probably helped mymy film career at a young age.
But um, yeah, you know what'sinteresting.
I was thinking about thisrecently that I had, and it's

(08:39):
almost like you just don't hearthis anymore.
I had a really positive youthgroup experience.
Like I feel like I, you know,probably so many of your friends
as well, so many friends I hadare sort of like going through
the the difficulties and traumasthat they had in that.
I actually had an incrediblypositive youth group experience.

(09:02):
EV free Fullerton, uh, somegreat friends, some great sort
of mentors, uh, also a creativeencouragement, like all those
VHS movies I was making foryouth group.
I was filming all sorts ofstuff, had places to show work,
and um and then later in life,uh after college, uh a church

(09:26):
that I was working with youth atbought me a film camera, not not
a video camera, a CP16 filmcamera, which was the start of
music videos.
That's how I started shootingmusic videos was with a film
camera.
So did it shoot 16?

James Duke (09:42):
Was that a 16 mil?

SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
Yeah, it was 16 millimeter film camera.
Wow, yeah, it was incredible.
Yeah, it was incredible.
But for me, growing up in a I Idid grow up in a Christian home,
but of course, with divorce, youquestion that.
You go, you know, um what uhwhat is true, what is what is
real, and um that positive youthgroup experience was

(10:04):
foundational, but it really wasnot until I would say when I
moved to Aspen, Colorado.
I I went to Cal State LongBeach, bombed my first semester
because it was too close to homeand I couldn't really figure uh
things out.
So I went to Aspen and I was aski bomb uh for that semester.

(10:24):
But being alone was incrediblebecause I went to this town
where I knew no one, and Irealized I could be anything I
wanted.
Nobody knew me, I had noculture, and I really felt God's
goodness and uh presence andgrace, and it was not because of

(10:45):
any um anything cultural.
It really was real andfoundational and profound, and
I'm I'm thankful for that.
It was a wild sort of route.
Um, but yeah, 19, I think thingstook a deeper root uh in
isolation because there justwas, you know, uh there's it

(11:07):
that can be a really positiveexperience, right?
Sort of soul searching.

James Duke (11:11):
So well it it and that isn't, you know, I I think
that that is probably anatypical, I mean it's not uh
it's not typical.
Um you often hear someone atthat age kind of you know sewing
their wild oats or something.
And right, right.
Um that's a really um for uhgrowing up, I like I'm I'm

(11:32):
curious.
Uh I I've been watching some uhSpielberg stuff lately and just
talking about the influence,obviously, that almost all of
his films reflect the trauma ofthe divorce in his life.
Right, right.
Um as an as an artist, um do youum uh are there are there key oh

(11:55):
how to say it, maybe wounds orexperiences that you feel like
you find yourself constantlyprocessing through uh with your
art and that that have reallyinfluenced a lot of your a lot
of your work?

SPEAKER_00 (12:10):
Absolutely.
You know, the um I think it'sRenoir or somebody that said you
make the same film over and overin these themes.
And to answer your question,I've realized, and I think it's
when I came here to Portugal andhave had some space to sort of
look back on, especially thefeature films, and I'm kind of
making the same film over andover, and it's about people

(12:35):
struggling uh with finding worthin their work, and I think
that's the wound that I keeptrying to play over and over in
films, and then the truth isthat's the wound I'm I'm daily
wrestling with.
So even though it wraps up inthe third act of my feature

(12:57):
films, it is not totally wrappedup in my personal life.
You know, it's that classicthing where you put your
self-worth in your work and youknow intellectually and and uh
all sorts of other ways thatthat's not healthy.
But yeah, that struggle, and Ido think that kind of goes back

(13:18):
to childhood stuff, and even umI think the double whammy of
divorce and I was an only child,which I didn't I didn't realize
had such a stigma.
I think my parents did a goodjob, even though I cashed in on
that one uh season of sort ofnot playing the only child

(13:40):
privilege card.
So I didn't know till I went tocollege, and people said, Oh,
you don't act like an onlychild.
And I said, Oh, what's a what'san only child act like?
I don't know that.
But I will say the loneliness ofyou know, you're going through
divorce and you have no oneelse, and I kind of poured it
into um, I don't know if you cancall it filmmaking, whatever I

(14:03):
was doing at that young age, butI did receive a bit of accolades
that I think was a drug ofchoice, you know, um, like, oh,
here I do these things, peoplelike them, and I like the way
that I feel when I makesomething that people
appreciate, and then I think asan adult, and certainly when you

(14:24):
become a professional, that's amixed blessing.
Like nobody, you know, if I'mhaving honest conversations, I'm
like, nobody feels sorry for youfor oh, you made your four
movies and hundreds of musicvideos.
You know, there's no pity inthat, and I'm and I'm thankful.
But then you've made yourcareer, the your livelihood, and

(14:46):
all of that.
And so to really separate yourworth provisionally and
artistically and creatively,it's tricky.
And I can't say, you know, I'dlove to say I've mastered it,
but I I really feel like that'smy daily um challenge is like I
want I want to be in the thirdact of my own movies.

(15:08):
You know, like what it look likeon on a screen.

James Duke (15:13):
No, you've haven't you haven't reached you haven't
even reached the midpoint yet,buddy.
You haven't even reached right.

SPEAKER_00 (15:17):
I know, I know.
I'm in the messy, yeah, I'm inthe the whiff of death or
something.
I don't know.
The darker the darker bits, butI want to get there.
I'm trying, I'm working on it.
I'm working on it.
But that's a great, that's agreat question.
Because um, yeah, the answer isyes.
I these themes keep keep comingup.

James Duke (15:40):
I I think that I think that uh when you look when
you look at and you probably umuh don't think about this
because we often don't thinkabout it for ourselves, but you
know, whenever you look atsomeone's body of work, you can
actually see uh little tracesand hints of this kind of stuff.
I think a true artist is alwayskind of working out, like you

(16:03):
said.
Uh they're they're working,they're always working these
things out and over and over andover again.
And for you, when you started,um um uh music was it mute was
music videos kind of your umforay into the business?
Did you like what was your firstprofessional gig?

SPEAKER_00 (16:24):
Yeah, yeah, it was all music video.
So that I took that um thatsuper 16 millimeter film camera
and was living in um New Mexico.
Brian Belknap, our mutualfriend, was there as well.
Um, and I would just find bandsthat were coming through and

(16:44):
then try and meet them and andshoot music videos.
So, first professional, I thinkum uh I think it would be Five
Iron Frenzy.
I don't know if you know thisband Five Iron Frenzy.

James Duke (16:57):
My my my my wife my wife is a fan.

SPEAKER_00 (17:00):
Okay, there you go.
So I think that likeprofessionally, there were a few
videos prior to that, um really,really uh echoing green,
actually.
I think may have been my firstvideo.
I did this documentary, like adocumentary short for a band
called The Prayer Chain.

(17:20):
Um, but then where it took offwas Sixpence None the Richer.
Where so I was doing a lot ofthose videos, and I did those
guys had become friends, and umSteve Taylor, you know, this is
right after Kiss Me, and SteveTaylor did the coolest thing,
and and I had been doing quite abit of music videos at that

(17:41):
time, all the uh five-minutewalk videos I did exclusively,
and then I started doing stufffor two with the mail, and then
Sparrow, and then it startedgetting bigger and bigger, then
Switchfoot, a bunch ofswitchfoot videos.
But um coming off of Kiss Me,Steve Taylor, you know, every 11
directors wrote for the ThereShe Goes video, and um and the

(18:07):
band, yeah, no, it's crazy.
I and in the he trusted me, andthe band trusted me, and that
video blew up.
And then, of course, this is atime depending upon the age of
your listeners.
There's this thing called musictelevision that showed music
videos and VH1, and so thatended up being a uh you know, uh

(18:30):
in heavy rotation and top 10video, and so so then music
videos really took off, and thenum two things happened.
Disney I pivoted, I was veryfortunate when music videos
started dying, and you hadNapster come and the whole music
video thing, and then MTV wasn'tplaying videos like this perfect

(18:53):
storm, and so I was making aliving as a music video
director, and uh then I jumpedto Disney.
I did this jump five musicvideo, and it was for Beauty and
the Beast, and that's how I metit.
It was like Disney.
I did probably 40, you know,Disney.
This became my thing for uh Iwas able to jump from when music

(19:17):
videos died.
Uh I was very fortunate to startdoing Disney music videos, which
were thriving because they haduh you know their own channel,
they DVDs, so anytime they woulddo radio, yeah, Disney Radio.
Yeah, Disney Radio.
I mean, it was just a thing, andthey were very good to me.
And I became uh you know thego-to guy for a season, and that

(19:39):
was incredible.
That was just good fun becausethey would take, like in this
case, they would take a song,they would re-release um Beauty
and the Beast, and then theywould just take the song and get
one of their acts and add Beautyand the Beast, you know, or it
would be Pinocchio or SnowWhite, or you know, I just did

(20:02):
all these videos, and then ofcourse they had the movies, so
then I was doing you know CampRock 2 and uh Lemonade Mouth and
Princess Protection Program, allof that, and then a bunch of
buddy videos, like all the dogvideos.
I was doing all the BeverlyHills Chihuahua, you know, every
everything with dogs, and so Imean it was comedy.

(20:23):
Pix uh all the Pixie, you know,when Pixart picked up the um
Tinkerbell franchise, and thenit was like you know, they get
Zendaya to do, you know, aTinkerbell video, and Selena
Gomez and Demi Lovato and JonasBrother, all that.
So that's how um but then incommercials, go ahead.

James Duke (20:44):
No, I'll I was just were you in-house, or this was
all contracted out work, allcontracted, all contracted,
yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (20:52):
And it just um, yeah, I mean you'd have to
compete, compete for them, butonce you get that ball rolling
and you know, you start buildingrelationships.
And for me, there were all thesedivisions.
So there was the the direct toDVD division would make music
videos, the the Disney Channeloriginal movies would make

(21:15):
videos, then Narnia, then theywould make Narnia, and I would
do the videos for uh Switchfootfor Narnia and Steam and Chris
Chapman for Narnia, and so itwas yeah, it was really I was
very, very fortunate um forthat.
And then commercially, I justhad the craziest thing happen.
Someone we were in the Bay Areabefore we moved to LA, and this

(21:39):
production company called KaboomProductions had seen my music
video work.
I think this was right when thesixpence video hit, and they
said, Would you ever considercommercials?
I said, Absolutely, I think thatcould be good fun.
And so the first commercial, Imean, this is the first
commercial I did won a cannedgold lion.

(22:01):
So it like it like you win theyou win the Oscar the very first
one, yeah.
The very first one.
So yeah, if you can do that,that's a good way to start in
commercial.
So I was what was thecommercial?
So what was the commercial SanFrancisco Jazz Festival?
So it was um, and it was probono.

(22:22):
This is something that notknown.
I did the first commercial Idid, I did for free, and then
just to like get my you knowfeet in the door, and kaboom was
like, the the creative on thisis great, and you should do it,
and then it just I didn't evenknow.
I was doing another commercialin Europe, and I got a fax,

(22:43):
which tells you what year thiswas.
We got a fax that said um youwant a gold lion, and we thought
it was a a prank, and we calledpeople there and they go, No,
you did, you know, they haven'teven announced it.
What had happened is the Frenchthey will not allow a gold lion
to go unaccepted.
So they found out I didn't evenknow the commercial was up for

(23:06):
it, and so they tracked me downand made sure that I was there
because you know, it'd be thebiggest offense for a gold lion
to go.
It was insane.
Next thing we know, it wasinsane.
Next thing you know, you're youknow, we're over there.
Our son was one year old, andwe're like, you know, flying
into you know, and you've seencan your whole life, and there's

(23:28):
the red carpet and all thestuff, and it's the you know,
it's the advertising side of it,but still it was you're you're
you're sitting there holdingyour uh gold lion next to Sean
Penn and George Clooney, yeah.
Yeah, but those guys aren't atthe those guys, it was actually
all the it was none of the atthe film guys, because this is
the advertising side of the ofCan.

(23:51):
And so, but it was like Tractorand all of my heroes that were
commercial and music videodirectors uh were all there, you
know.
And this is when like MichelleGondry and Spike Jones and um
all those guys are doing, theywere like heroes to me in the
commercial and music videoworld, and um, but it was nuts,
and so then European commercialstook off, and I I was doing but

(24:15):
what's funny is a gold lion willget you two years of just
insanity in the commercialworld, and then you're not hot
anymore, right?
And uh, and to be honest, in theDisney world, when I switched to
feature films, um, they found anew me, and I I couldn't go
back.
So, like once I was done, once Ibecame a feature film director,

(24:40):
I was not hirable in commercialsor music, it like killed my uh
livelihood, which is interestingthing.
Why do you think that is?
Well, I think to be well lookingat Disney, um so I was directing
at least something every month,if not a couple things a month,

(25:04):
and sort of insider baseball, isthat what you say?
Insider baseball.
And so the uh is that the truthis if you're an executive at any
place, right?
You want job security, and soyou have um five treatments for

(25:26):
music video directors, right?
And there's some newup-and-coming director, there's
like a mid-level director, andthen there's the guy that did
the last five videos.
So I was that guy for a while.
I was the guy that they go,look, sure, he can direct Camp
Rock 2 because he just did theDemi Selena video for Prince's

(25:48):
Protection program.
And the reason is if it goeswrong, that executive is not in
trouble because all he has tosay is, Hey, I hired the guy
that did this.
Like it's not on me.
If they hire the new guy, theyare taking a huge risk.
And if it goes south, it's onthem, which is why when you're

(26:10):
that guy, it it plays to yourbenefit.
And then the minute you're notthat guy, it's impossible.
So for me, I went from being theguy to they found the next guy,
and then when I finished filmingSaronia, I came back and I'm
like, guys, I'm back, you know.
Hey, let's let's do another, youknow, 20 videos.

(26:32):
And they're like, ah, we got,you know, this guy's doing just
as good of a job as you did,maybe better.
And you know, so yeah, it'sinteresting.

James Duke (26:43):
I mean, there's a machine, it's a it's a machine
over there, right?
Like, so it's just like they'reconstantly having to output.
So if you step out of it, theyjust they bring someone else in,
and the machine just has to keepgoing.

SPEAKER_00 (26:55):
Totally, and everybody's happy for you.
They're like, hey, you're afeature film director now.
And the interesting thing isthat's what I wanted to be since
I was eight years old, eventhough I you know love that.
But then the the reality is umit's very different.
You know, I have a lot offriends that are commercial
directors that don't want to domusic uh films because they know

(27:18):
this.
They go, Man, I don't know if Ican provide for my family.
I want to make a movie, but I'mdoing commercials and I'm you
know, I'm a working director.
Um so it's interesting.
It uh I it well here's thehere's the thing that is true
though, right?

(27:39):
And and to be honest, is hadSaronia become you know, indie
darling Sundance hit huge, wellthen yes, probably I could have
uh, you know, just having thesesort of humble films that people
enjoy but are not massive hits,I'm not able to capitalize on

(28:04):
that in a way because it's it'smore about working class.
I mean, it's it's more like youknow, blue-collar work of just
you know, I'm I'm no longer atthe factory.
Hey, why'd you leave thefactory?
Well, I went off and did thisthing, and they're like, Yeah,
well, you're you know, it'sfunny because there's literally
a part in Saroneia that film Ifilmed, not knowing that it

(28:25):
would be prophetic in nature ofhim saying, like, you're not
what's hot right now, you're notwhat's hot, and then then we
finish the film, and and that'skind of what happened to me was
exactly what happened to thecharacter in the self-fulfilling
prophecy.

James Duke (28:40):
So in a sense, it's in a sense, it's like leaving
the job to go start your ownbusiness, sure.
And then you come try to comeback, and they're like, No, no,
no, like you went and startedyour own business, you know what
to do now.

SPEAKER_00 (28:51):
Like, go out there and you know, yeah, um, and
they're happy for you.
They're like, That's great, andthen everybody's excited, but
that's what gets back to the umlike I envy, and I'm sure we
grass is always greener.
You envy people that do this fora hobby when you and it's been
very fortunate to make a livingdoing it, but when those things

(29:13):
are connected, this matters,yes, right?
Who cares if you go and doanother Disney music video, like
you did a bunch, and to behonest, creatively, there wasn't
a lot more I wanted to do.
I did, you know, I quit countingat a hundred, and so I I think I
did everything I wanted to docreatively in music videos,

(29:33):
right?
So, but the reality was, youknow, two kids and a family, and
it it's like that's and becauseI don't have a plan B, I'm like,
what are my other marketableskills?
You know, like now I'm a featurefilm director, and fortunately I
I went on to make more moremovies, but it's a tricky, it's
just tricky, it's a trickything, and these are all you

(29:56):
know, very fortunate problems tohave, but it's I don't know,
it's interesting, probablyinteresting in this format to
discuss these kinds of things.

James Duke (30:04):
Yeah, for sure.
I I'm curious if we could nerdout a little bit, get a little
nuts and bolts um for our body.
Um let's let's talk aboutdirecting music videos and
commercials because myexperience have lots of friends
similar to you who are in thisspace, and it's the process is
fascinating to me.
I I'm I'm curious if you couldbreak down if I've got some

(30:27):
aspiring directors, uh, peoplewho want to direct music videos,
commercials, that listening.
What um what does a music videodirector do?
How does one how does one becomeone?
And um what um what does thatlook like?
Um does is it my my kind of takeon it is you are uh you're a

(30:52):
writer director in these spacesbecause you are you're working
with the client to essentiallyto build out the creative,
right?
The idea, the concept typically.
And then it's your job then toexecute it.
Um, could you break that downjust a little bit more um for
our audience in terms of whatthe the role and the function of
a music video director is?

SPEAKER_00 (31:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
And there's kind of traditionalparadigms.
I go way back, you know, I wasshooting all my original videos
for years on film, not becauseI'm uh I mean, one could argue
that I I held out very longbecause I'm some sort of purist,
but the reality was it justwasn't the technology wasn't

(31:35):
there, but that lets you knowhow far back this goes.
So now there's some of the sameparadigms, but it's worth noting
that you can go find your friendin a band and shoot something
and put it on YouTube.
That's a way.
But I think what you're talkingabout is like, what's the the
professional traditionalparadigm?
And what that is, you have aband that's on a label.

(31:56):
Okay, so they're on a label, andhistorically they had quite
large budgets.
Um now the budgets are smaller,but there's still some healthy
budgets.
And so the label gives the bandthey're like, you have an album,
you have a single, and we'regonna give you$150,000 to make a

(32:17):
video for that signal.
Now what happens is they go outto directors, so they're looking
at reels, and usually they'llpick you know three to five
directors.
The six months one had 11.
I've heard um, you know,sometimes it's it's a couple,
but it's always you'recompeting, and you're right,
you're completely right aboutthe writer director because you

(32:38):
write the idea.
So as a director, you writewhat's called a treatment.
And when I started, those werewritten, and as time went on,
they became elaborate websitessometimes, depending upon the
scope of the the project.
So it's anything from I mean, itat a minimum, it's kind of like

(32:58):
a pitch deck would be.
And you are showing your idea,and you say, um, you know, it's
either gonna have a story or nothave a story, it's gonna um, you
know, what the band's gonna looklike, and and all these photo
references, there's pictures,and so you make your
presentation, and uh then theband and the label will decide

(33:25):
who gets the video.
Now the other thing to note is,and this is still the case in
the in the in the grand scheme,a director is signed to a
production company.
So um uh I was at kaboomproductions, then I was at uh
propaganda, which was um why wemoved to LA, and that was a huge

(33:49):
production company.
Then I was at Crossroads, mergeat Crossroads, and so they will
have um a roster of directors,and so typically directors
within the same productioncompany will not compete, um,
but different productioncompanies will compete.
And so that is also a contract,so to speak, to bring it in

(34:10):
budget.
My idea has to be a$150,000idea.
So then they say, let's do it,and then that production company
produces the music video, andyou go and you shoot it, and you
edit it, and you bring it, youknow, all the way, all
production kind of takes space.
But it's different incommercials because you don't

(34:32):
write it.
So that can gold lion that Iwon, I didn't write the idea.
It's basically like being handeda script, and on that side of
things, you have um historicallyan advertising agency, a client,
and all of that.
What's interesting now is a lotof those things are getting
blended, or you'll have in-houseor a production company will

(34:55):
also create content, generateideas.
But uh generally speaking,that's it.
And that's why music videos arefun because you're coming up
with the ideas.

James Duke (35:04):
Right.
And they used to be quitelucrative.
I I know because music videos,like you said, the budgets have
have uh shrunk.
I I even line produced somestuff back in the day, and and
it's and I remember speaking tothis director who he was like
this, he had done like you know,huge ones, similar to you.
You know, he he did he did someBritney Spears and back in the

(35:27):
day, and he had done um uh ACDC,like he had done all these back
in the day when they had thesebig budgets, and then um uh I
think he I think he wasEuropean, I think he was over in
Europe or something.
And uh and uh the project I wasworking with him on was was like
the the 20th, you know, this wasyears ago, but it was like a

(35:49):
20th of what and I remember himjust on the phone, just just
letting like he wasn't mad atus, but he was just letting us
have it.
He was telling us about how theyused to give me millions of
dollars to do these things, andnow you know everything is and
it's so I know that I know thatthe that that has shifted and
changed, but having said that,like you said, there are still

(36:10):
some the occasional nicebudgets, but commercials also in
particular, that I don't think alot of people realize that um
kind of as with television,because there's such a because
there's so many commercials areneeded, there's so many of these
types of projects needed, um uhyou can you can you can earn you

(36:31):
can earn a nice living justworking in, depending on what
you do, just working incommercial and music video
spaces, because there are thereis such a huge demand and huge
need.
So these production companies,uh like you said, are churning
out all these projects.
So um when you think about that,when you think about like the
opportunity that someone wouldhave to kind of jump into a

(36:53):
system like that, what would beyour advice on an aspiring
director?
What what do they need to do toget known as a director?
What kind of what kind of advicewould you have for them in in
the marketplace today?
Um what do they need to be doingto build like well?
First of all, let me take a stepback.
What should they be doing todevelop their skills as a

(37:14):
director?
I was talking to a buddy ofmine, Scott Teens, was I don't
know if you know Scott.

SPEAKER_00 (37:17):
Oh yeah, Scott's awesome.
Yeah, I I heard your yourpodcast interviews great.

James Duke (37:22):
Yeah, and we and Scott and I were always
somebody's like, well, no onegives, you know, writers can
just write, right?
Yeah, but directors, no one'sjust letting you go out and
practice directing.

SPEAKER_00 (37:32):
I know that's that's what I was saying about envying
you know, painters or musicians.
You can write a hundred songsand you only show me 10 of them,
yeah.
Or you know, painting, but Ican't make you know 50 movies
and show you the three best.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (37:48):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (37:48):
So um, yeah, it's so true.
It's interesting.
I think basically your yourquestion, the the break-in, and
in that space, the thing that wetalked about earlier is what
makes it so difficult is thatjob people are not taking risks,
and so they're hiring the samepeople.
So the top music video guys umare like the top music video

(38:13):
guys when these nostalgicstories that I'm telling of my
early music video careers.
There's like five of those guysthat are still doing it, and the
reason I think they're stilldoing it is because of the risk
adverse nature of it.
Um and uh I had a um a goodfriend who's a music video

(38:37):
commercial getting into TV thatwas actually visited us here on
the island, and he was lamentingjust the challenge of the
industry, and um there's so fewof those jobs that are there's
so few jobs open to new talent,I guess I would say.
Like the harsh reality is thebreak-in is is really difficult.

(39:01):
And so my advice would be theflip side is I'm sure everybody
talks about this.
I mean, now you know, back thenyou had to have a a film camera,
and then you had to go do youknow, transfer telesine at
company three, and then you hadto like to make something was so
difficult.
Whereas now you can, you know,get a black magic pocket camera

(39:26):
and go make something amazing.
So my advice is go find a bandin the music video space, find a
band that you love, like go toum go to a club, you know, go
hang out at Largo and just gosee every show and meet the vans
and those relationships and andyou know, build your your reel,

(39:50):
build your your work so that youhave to have something to show.
Like there's no way to breakinto if you want to break into
music video.
Or commercial commercial sotricky because you really have
to have a production company.
Like people are not uh thatseems to me, and and maybe

(40:12):
people that are still doing itcould speak to this better, but
I uh I don't see how you don'tdo that, and that's that's
another route is build your reeland then go find these
production companies that areare going to partner with you
and then try and find you work.

James Duke (40:33):
Yeah, there's no there's no independent
commercial world, like you kindof have to work in the system of
advertising agents andproduction companies.

SPEAKER_00 (40:41):
Totally.
Um what is the it's interestingthat well on the on the band
side, you go and you shoot yourfriends.
I remember like that sort ofhappened to people, um, like a
director that's doing a bunch ofvideos for his friends, and then
your friends are smash mouth,and now you're and then you're
the hot like if that band hits,you could be making a meeting

(41:06):
mediocre video, you know, andall of a sudden you're the guy
that directed the the video forwhoever it is.
So yeah, that's the way to doit.
Go out there and shoot a videoand then make sure that band
blows up, and then you're youknow, but anyway, I cut you off.

James Duke (41:23):
You're saying no, I was just I was just curious.
How does how does one developthat visual aesthetic?
Um, do you just what I alwaystell people is just like what
what you just said, there's noexcuse these days.
Like you have you have anamazing camera in your pocket,
like what you and I are talkingabout shoot it on an iPhone.
Yeah, I mean, I'm talking to youon an iPad that can shoot like

(41:45):
it, like these things arepossible nowadays.
There's no excuse to kind of goout and so if you were kind of
designing a course for someonewhere they said, Brandon, you
know, how do I learn how todirect?
The two things, and you tell me,check, check my uh check the
advice that I give and tell mewhat you think.

(42:06):
But I always say, um uh find anexcuse to find an excuse to
shoot something with actors sothat you're getting the
experience of learning how tovisualize a story, but you're
also learning how to directactors.
Those are those are the thosewould be the two essential how
to communicate with actors, howto, how to, how to work with

(42:27):
them, how to collaborate withthem.
And then also how do I how do Itell the story visually?
What what is that good advice?
What would be kind of uh youradvice for someone who's an
aspiring uh director?

SPEAKER_00 (42:40):
Absolutely.
And I love that you're asking meto teach a course because I I
love teaching.
Like that's my my other,especially at this point with
like 25 years behind.
I actually just am completing auh master's, not because of
anything else, but I found somany people have asked me to
teach, and then they're like,Oh, you need a master's.

(43:01):
I go, really?
The you know, the the the fourfeature films are not enough.
They're like, no, what youreally need, you know.
What the kids really want tohear from is someone with a
master's.
So, but now I have both.
So uh, so you're you're callingmy bluff in that you're asking
me to teach right here and now,and I love it.
The I would since we're talkingabout music video, I would take

(43:24):
exactly what you're saying.
Because here's the importantpart you just mentioned to work
with real actors, and that's whyit seems silly to work with a
real band, but that's whereyou're gonna learn that dynamic.
Because let's take it on theshort film.
It I mean, there is somethingcharming and cool about shooting

(43:45):
all your friends and that, butthe minute you work with real
actors is where you're gonnalearn, and you learn more
through failure.
So you need to get out there andfail a lot, fail quickly and
often, and start doing it, andyou're gonna learn because you
learn more from that than fromsuccesses.

(44:05):
So, on the music video side,find a real band that you don't
know and pitch them on an idea,on a on a concept, and then
you're going to understand uhhow the whole thing works.
You're gonna understand that youknow they created a piece of art
that you're slapping somethingon top of, and that's a delicate

(44:26):
relationship because you'reeither enhancing or just
completely ruining what they'veworked on.
And I've worked with you know,bands that are a dream and
collaborative, and bands thatare a nightmare, and certainly
uh solo artists that are thatway too.
And so you have to learn thatbefore if you're gonna get to

(44:48):
that production company stage,they're gonna look at somebody
that's worked with a real band,even if they're not known,
versus this is my uh you know,brother doing a lip sync to
something.
I would not waste your timedoing um, you know, taking a
cold play song and getting youruncle to sing, and like that

(45:11):
does nothing, yeah, in in myopinion.
In the same way, um the actors,like I mean, you'll when I went
to I went to um after getting anEnglish degree, I went to NYU's
cheater film program.
They used to have they stillhave it, but it it used to be
amazing in that you could in andgo to NYU Tish, and it was like

(45:31):
uh 13 hours a day, six days aweek over you know four months,
and you made short films, andbut you could get actors, you
know, because they wantsomething for their real.
So you can do casting, and uh ifyou have a good idea and a good
script, and you can work withreal actors and get that
experience, and that experienceis gonna be so much more than um

(45:56):
your friends.
You can crew up with somefriends, you can get your you
know, your buddies to to um gaffand boom and you know, all that
stuff, but in terms of in frontof the camera, I would just
start with real talent, and thenI would make something, watch
it, learn, make something else,watch and learn, make, you know,

(46:18):
just keep keep going.
The other thing too, and thishappens in writing, and and this
is also something that uh youknow daily I work on, but that
that idea of just getting stuffout there.
Like I find that you know peoplebring this up a lot in freelance

(46:39):
writing of all sorts, like 80%get it out there, it's 80% done,
or you know, just get it outthere and keep going.
Whereas I'll tend to go and justkeep you know pining over this
until I get to what I think's110.
And I've spent, I could havemade five things in that time,

(46:59):
you know.
And I think the people that aredoing well and moving forward
are the ones that just you knowchurn it, churn it out.

James Duke (47:08):
I agree.
I I I think that is such goodadvice.
Both of those things are suchgood advice because I though
those are those are two placesthat I find a lot of aspiring
filmmakers often get stuck isthey get stuck with um not
working with people who arebetter than them.
Oh you gotta work with peoplewho are more talented than you

(47:28):
so that you know where are thegaps that I have to fill.
And and and the second one is soworking with professional bands,
that's really good insight.
Excuse me.
And then that and then that partthere you just said you you've
gotta, I I've I've say this amillion times, which is take the
job.
Work begets work, begets work,begets work.

(47:48):
Like take the job, learn fromthe job, build relationships
with people on that job.
And more times than not, thatwill birth other opportunities.
And you've got to just get intothat, you've got to get into
that process of just creating.
You can and you can't sitaround, right?
Like that's the struggle that adirector, an aspiring director

(48:08):
can have, which is they'rethey're sitting around waiting
for someone to give them moneythat they can make their citizen
cane.

SPEAKER_00 (48:14):
And it's just right, it's just not realistic.
No, it does not happen.
I love what you say aboutworking with people better than
you.
I I did that early on, and Ithink it served me really well
in that you know, early videos,it was I shot them, I edited
them, I brought craft service toI literally did everything.

(48:36):
And it was, it fortunately cameto me in the Bay Area.
I was renting a camera, rentingan Aerie camera, and at the um
at the camera shop, when thewhen my stuff was on the table,
the guy went in the back, andthe cinematographer that was
getting his own gear pulled theorder, pulled the order over and

(48:58):
wrote down my phone number.
Because he just said, Who isthis getting all this gear?
And so Cold called me and said,Um, hey, it looks like you're
shooting your own stuff.
And he's like, I'll shoot yournext video for free.
And uh, and he and I did he andI did, you know, 30 music videos

(49:18):
together.
Because he he came in, his namewas Norman Bonnie, and um he
came in and uh shot, you know,and I was like, wow, he's
better, he's better than me.

unknown (49:31):
Wow.

SPEAKER_00 (49:31):
And so yeah, so then it was um, and then editorially
I met this guy, John Francis,and I was like, he's so much
better than me as an editor, andso yeah, it's collaborative that
way, and so you've gotta beegoless and and and that's
what's so fun.
I mean, those early music videodays, I I really love the just

(49:56):
it was like position afterposition, letting go of, and I'm
like, this guy's way better thanme.
This guy's way better than me,you know, this guy's way better
than me, and just and I think Iit helped build a career earlier
by being collaborative withreally talented people.
So that's that's I'm just sayingyour advice is is fantastic.

James Duke (50:15):
Um, the I don't know by the way, have you seen uh my
wife is a huge was a huge fan ofthat the band The National, and
um yeah have you seen thatdocumentary?
I think it's called Mistaken forStrangers.
Have you seen that documentary?
No, oh bro, you'd love it.
What's it about?
It's it's so great.
So it starts off as the leadsing, the lead singer's uh

(50:38):
brother um wants to make adocumentary about the band.
And the the brother is uh he heconvinces the band to allow him
to do that.
So he's gonna follow them aroundand make a documentary.
The problem is is the lead itthe lead singer's brother is is
a is a bit of a doofus, likehe's not he's kind of a like he

(51:01):
can't keep a job, like he's abit of a like he's kind of a bit
of a loser.
And so it's like his olderbrother is trying to help him
out, but you see it all playingout in the documentary, and the
brother will do things likeforget the camera, or he'll
he'll not he'll not show up ontime when the band's like it's

(51:23):
that he keeps and it just endsup this documentary shifts and
ends up being about thispersonal dynamic between these
two brothers because heeventually kind of fires his own
brother and he and then theykind of but they have to they've
invested so much, they got tofinish the documentary.
And it's a it's a it's afascinating look inside like a

(51:43):
tour, the the the the world ofuh of a big rock band kind of
going on a big tour, but it'sbut it's uh but it really shifts
and becomes this um thisdocumentary about about brothers
and uh familial bonds, and it'sreally it's it's really a
fascinating documentary.
It's it's way better than what Iwas expecting it to be.

(52:04):
So you should have.

SPEAKER_00 (52:06):
Yeah.
I've seen the I think it's MikeMills.
There's a Mike Mills project.
I'm a huge fan of anything he hedoes.
And I think he did somethingwith them that became um sort of
inspired.
Come on, come on, but maybe I'mI'm off.
But yeah, it's good stuff.
That's awesome.
It's good stuff.

James Duke (52:27):
Let's talk a little bit about excuse me.
Let's talk a little bit aboutyour film career because you you
talked about Left Disney.
Um, you went off and you made uhthis film Saronia.
So so tell a little tell us alittle bit about um what what
what brought about that projectand and what what's it about?

SPEAKER_00 (52:45):
Yeah, it's crazy.
The um so we're in Hollywoodliving there, you know, in LA,
and my wife's mom gets cancer.
And so she's given it stage fourin like six months to live.
And so we within 10 days justmove our whole family to Waco,

(53:06):
um, just to Texas.
And this is this is uh preprefixer upper Waco.
This is like this is not um uhand so I I have to say that
because when people sometimeshear the story that you know now
they're like, oh, you you wentto work.
I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
This is this is this is uh youknow what year would it be?

(53:30):
2009, 2010.
Um, so yeah, a really tendertime family-wise.
Everyone thinks it's kind oflike good for the family, but
career suicide, um, you know, tomove to you know, small town
Texas.
What happens though is I slowdown from all the commercials

(53:52):
and music videos, and with twofriends, one um uh musician, and
then another is a theaterteacher there, and um, we just
start uh writing songs around umWes Cunningham's music, um,
who's a friend, and um and so weactually had the soundtrack uh

(54:18):
before we had the um you knowbefore before we had the movie,
and so we actually took 40 songsthat he had been writing in his
basement and and he had movedabruptly from LA to Waco, and
then we had also for differentreasons done that.
So the story was crafted aroundsomebody that uh when he's told

(54:40):
he's no longer relevant, moves,you know, to Saronia.
And Saronia is actually afictitious name for Waco.
Um, because at that time, youknow, Waco was just uh, you
know, quaresh, it was like had avery different reputation.
So we avoided saying Waco inanything.
So Saronia, but we were justhaving a blast writing this

(55:01):
script, and so the three of uswould just meet at a cafe and
write, and then I'd write, andthey would write, and we just
you know came up with this greatscript, not thinking at all that
it would, you know, get financedand become a film.
And then um, yeah, my wife atthat time had this company
called Raven and Lily, and uhthis family invited us over to

(55:26):
dinner, and I was just a plusone, you know, joining it.
And uh they had kids, so youknow, they're like, What do you
do?
And I was like, Oh, I do, youknow, Jonas Brothers videos and
that kind of stuff.
But uh the husband just says, Imean, I say, but I'm writing a
film right now, and he said,Does it just take money to make
a film?

(55:46):
I said, Yeah, and he's like, Oh,I know a guy that uh that may be
interested.
And then yeah, week week laterwe met um Gary Haven, the owner
of Curves, and and he financedthe film.
It was crazy.
Like so we yeah, he just he uhyeah, he he finally so it came,
you know, in the most unlikelyof circumstances, and it was

(56:10):
such a a beautiful, beautifulthing that and it was kind of I
mean, one of the coolest partsof it was that Kirsten's mom was
lamenting the fact that we hadyou know uprooted the family,
and then before she passed, Iwas able to tell her like
because of this, I'm mychildhood dream is coming true,

(56:30):
you know.
This what it seems is thishorrible thing, and it was
horrible and and sad and andpainful, but out of that, that's
how my my first feature filmcame.
So it's a crazy story, and weshot it in in Waco, and um,
yeah, it was a wonderful the thefilm was a wonderful experience.

James Duke (56:53):
Did it and did you did it get distribution or can
people still see it, right?

SPEAKER_00 (56:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It did.
It did.
I um I don't keep track ofthey're all on um iTunes, the
others um keep moving.
Uh the yeah, they're on forthree years on Netflix, two two
of my feature films, and then umwhat's so interesting is like

(57:17):
someone will say, like, oh, Iwatched uh Victor on Tubi, or
and I go, I didn't know it wason a tubi, or like uh you know,
Man and Jack O Glampi was uh youknow featured on Amazon.
We watched it, so I don't youknow, once you sort of sell the
film, you're it's not in your umhands.
So uh and I didn't even know howlong they would be on on

(57:39):
Netflix.
So um what was the anyway?
Yeah, you can I think all ofthem are on all of my films are
on iTunes, and then pick a week,they they jump around
everywhere.
They're being traded on the openmarket somewhere.
So it's funny here in Portugal,you know, people were you know
trying to find them and theythey shift all the time.

James Duke (58:00):
So are you so you're setting so here you are finding
yourself in Waco, um, shootingyour first feature film?
Did you yeah, did you by the wayyou shot it in Waco?

SPEAKER_00 (58:10):
Yeah, we did.
Yeah, shot it on film, shot 35.
It was a blast.
It was so fun.

James Duke (58:17):
And what was that process like for you finally
kind of stepping into thatexperience?
Did you do kind of what wetalked about before?
Did you surround yourself with alot of people that you knew that
you had a relationship with tokind of help you through the
process?

SPEAKER_00 (58:31):
Or were you both and um both and I mean I was you
know, at this point, it was likeI'd waited a long time.
I'd been, you know, directingfor 15 years, um, and always
wanting to do films, and so Iwas just thrilled.

(58:52):
I was just, you know, put me in,coach.
I was I was so excited.
I'd spent so much time on set.
This is an interesting umanother insider thing, is that I
had been given the advice to,you know, there's two ways to

(59:13):
go.
And I think this is what you'reasking.
You can either surround yourselfwith the people that you've
worked with or hire the mosttalented person.
Here's the mistake that I made,to be honest with you, is that I
hired a few key people from mymusic, video, and commercial
world that are incrediblytalented.

(59:34):
And it dawned on me on day threethat I've never worked with them
more than two days.
Right?
This insane aha moment and a bitof an oh crap moment.
And in hindsight, it makes totalsense.
But I did surround myself withsome people that I loved that

(59:57):
were talented, but they weremusic videos.
Video commercial people and Iand it and it was not easy.
And so I did not make thatmistake twice.
But I will say I made my firstfilm harder than it needed to
be.
I'm I'm pleased with the endresult, but it was harder than
it needed to be because I didbring up some people that I

(01:00:22):
worked with, and there reallyare different mindsets, skill
sets.
To come out and have amazingcraft service and cranes and all
that on commercials is onething.
An indie film shot in Waco is atotally different beast.
And so I don't care how much weget along.

(01:00:46):
Um it I didn't do that again.
You'll see that I then workedwith people that worked in film
on my next three three films.
It was um it was film folks.
So that's a great question.
Um yeah, and I had been giventhat advice, and I had I had

(01:01:07):
choices in each, and I I moreoften than not went with the
person I had a relationshipwith, and I'd say 50% of those I
regretted, to be honest.
Um so yeah, it's interesting.
And then I worked with um uh Ijust did interviews, you know,

(01:01:29):
like on Victor.
Um, my second film, I justlooked at reels and stuff, and
Byron Shaw was just thecinematographer that I liked his
work.
We hit it off, and it was just adream, like it was amazing.
You know, his crew justcompletely understands all the
nuances of putting in reallyhard days in independent film,

(01:01:52):
and so yeah, it's it'sdifferent, different, different
mindset, different beast, likegoing, you know, 20 days is not
is not a day or two days, it'sjust completely different.

James Duke (01:02:07):
And how did and how did Victor come to be?
It was it was brought to youbecause it's based on true
story, right?

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:13):
Yeah, true story.
So Greg Wilkerson and I had donea documentary a decade before,
and um, and we had talked aboutand met with his father about
remaking the cross and theswitchblade.
I don't know if you rememberthat film from way, way back.
And um, and then his father hadpassed away.

(01:02:36):
He didn't want to do that, buthe wanted to sort of be in that
universe.
It's like if he had alien, hewanted to make Prometheus.
Like, so we made an adjacentfilm uh that is a true story,
Victor Torres, that kind ofhappened five years after that
story with Wilkerson.

(01:02:57):
Greg and I had uh stayed intouch, had a great time on this
Life in a Box documentary thatwe'd done a decade before.
And and then now, you know, I Ihad a a feature under my belt,
which was great.
So it wasn't he didn't have totake the risk of a first time.
I was no longer a first-timefilmmaker, and uh, which is

(01:03:19):
helpful.
And then that was crazy becausethat was a you know a bigger
film, a period piece.
Um, and uh yeah, it was it wasawesome.
And I love doing true stories,and it was really interesting
because Victor's still alive.
So I was able to, he had writtena memoir, but then I interviewed
him and and and based the um thescript on um more than just what

(01:03:46):
was in his memoir.

That's what that's what I was gonna ask you.
So you you wrote the script aswell, and and when you're
dealing with a with a real lifesubject matter, did did you find
you said you said you enjoymaking them?
I'm just curious, is are thereany um do you approach it
differently at all?
Because in that case, right, theperson's still alive, you're

(01:04:08):
able to interact with them.
Did you feel a um uh I wasspeaking to someone else about I
think Brian Ball or someoneabout telling true life stories?
And like, does it does it feellike a different level of like a
caretaker, if you will, in termsof like you're telling this
other person's story and youwant to get it right?
Is it is it different in in thatsense, making those kind of

(01:04:28):
films?

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:29):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I've been fortunate,I've heard others that have done
films with you know true storiesthat are um where the people are
alive.
Um Victor was gracious and kindof understood um the process,

(01:04:50):
you know, it was tricky becauseyou know he'd come to set, and
it's weird.
Here's somebody, you know,playing you, you know, the
young, the young you, and um butI feel like you can't be you
have to make a great movie, andthat was the thing that I said.
I said, look, we're either wemake a documentary, and

(01:05:13):
everything is just you know,we're just gonna spend the time
making a documentary, or we'regonna make a feature film based
on this true story.
Um, but it's not a bio pick,like we've got to um, yeah,
there were three guys in thegang.
I need that to be one guybecause we don't have time and

(01:05:33):
nobody in the audience wants tohear you know the nuances of
these three guys.
This this all three guysrepresent the you know the bad
guy in the gang.
And so we need that to be that.
So I was writing Thomas Ward,who uh also wrote uh Serenia
with me, uh also wrote thatscript with me.
And so it was nice to have umyou know somebody to to bounce.

(01:05:57):
This this latest film that Iwrote with Brian Bellmap um is a
true story, but it's 1880s.
Oh, yeah.
And so, yeah, so um it's calledCatherine, and it's about uh
true story of this uh CatherineBushnell, who is a doctor, which

(01:06:18):
tells you, you know, how amazingshe is in the 1880s, and she
ends up in Chicago in Hell'sHalf Acre, exposed to
prostitution, specificallyforced prostitution,
specifically young girls, endsup uh in Wisconsin exposing um

(01:06:39):
basically trafficking in the inthe lumber camps, and true
story, and totally unknown.
Like nobody knows.
Catherine Bushnell is not ahousehold name.
And so that was interestingbecause you have somebody that
nobody knows, right?
And it's a historical figure,and you only have so much.
And we had uh an author thatwrote a book of historical

(01:07:05):
fiction on it that we needed therights to that actually was how
I came to the project.
She's 94, her name's Lori Lutz,and I the first time we're
sending notes, I go, What have Idone?
I am I have somebody who wrotehistorical fiction who spent a
decade of their life researchingthis person, they care so much

(01:07:25):
about Catherine Bushnell, andthey're going to, you know, not
understand.
They've never read a scriptbefore.
The best notes that I may haveever gotten on a screenplay was
from a 94-year-old Lori Lutz anduh Amy Header that's at the um
Center for Biblical Equality.
And they have no film, and Iended up getting like incredible

(01:07:48):
insight and notes, and theyunderstood.
They said, they said, uh, oh, Isee why you because she goes to
Denver and Chicago, and we hadto make it one place, and she at
94 says, Um, oh, I understandwhy you just got to move the
story along.
So anyway, I've actually hadpretty positive experiences with

(01:08:10):
with um true stories.
Of course, a single frame is adocumentary, and that's a whole
other thing where you have atrue, you know, somebody who's
alive and on camera, and that'sa whole other um thing.
But um yeah, I don't know if Ianswered.
I don't even know what ouroriginal question was.
We went down a rugby trail oftrue stories, but I love true

(01:08:32):
stories.
The other thing too is I feelfor me, in the and I know a lot
of people that do this and dothis well, if I'm gonna, if
there's gonna be a faith elementfor me in a film, I really want
it to be true story.
Because like Victor, right?
I'm playing it in all sorts ofplaces, and in Victor, it's a

(01:08:53):
redemptive story, and it'sthrough his faith that he
overcomes drugs and and uh andit's true.
And what was great was uh I hadin QA's, you know, all of these
would do like a limitedtheatrical and then go to
Netflix or go to whateverstreaming service.
And so there would be screeningsand you would be there, and I

(01:09:15):
would get somebody saying, like,I feel like it's a little
heavy-handed that Victor hadthat moment where he um, you
know, kind of had his come toJesus moment in that film.
It's great because I said, Well,that's what happened, and here's
his phone number, you know.
So it's like it's like, youknow, it's like you can talk to

(01:09:37):
him.
I I just I'm just telling a truestory, you know, and so that can
be problematic for you.
And I know not everyone comesover uh drugs through faith, but
that's this story, and um, andso I'm just telling a true
story, and so for me, um, reallyVictor's the only one that kind

(01:09:59):
of deals that directly, butbecause it was a true story, it
was wonderful because anybodythat not only either had an
agnostic viewpoint but a hostileviewpoint, it was just not
debatable because it's it's whathappened.
You cannot like it and you don'thave to see the film, but you
can't say we're being didacticor you know, I'm just I'm just

(01:10:22):
telling a true story, andbecause he's alive, it's it's
incredible because I wouldfollow that up with you know,
you can talk with him if you youcan ask him, you know.
This is how you know this is uhthis is this is what really
really happened in his life.
And the other thing that's coolfor that particular story, this
happened when he's 18 and he'sin his 60s, so not only is it a

(01:10:45):
true story, but it stuck.
Like what happened therecompletely transformed the rest
of his life, and that's nice.
So I'm always interested inthat.
That's why I like this Catherinefilm because um, you know, it
deals with a really strongfemale character, it deals with
a heavy, heavy issue of youknow, young girls forced into

(01:11:08):
prostitution, but it's a truestory.
Whereas if you dealt with thatand it wasn't true, I think you
open yourself up to all sorts ofcriticism of like you're
creating a you're kind of tryingto create something to
manipulate or that, and and soanyway, I love true story films.

You I want to um I want to talk about uh Amanda and
Jack go glamping because I yeah,yeah, there's there's a
backstory to it that I think issure I want to kind of unpack.
You yeah, part of what I wassaying earlier is you're I feel
like it sounds to me, based onme getting to know you, is that
your your family hasn't been ona bit of an adventure journey.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:49):
Oh, yeah.

And so uh tell us a little bit about the origins of
your film, Amanda and Jack.
Yeah, because I'm I'm fascinatedabout them.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So um, so we lived on, so afterKirstis' mom passed, we moved to
Austin.
I made uh Victor uh made asingle frame, and we had, you
know, coming from LA, you don'tnobody owns land, right?
You know, I grew up inFullerton, and then we lived in
you know Hollywood and SilverLake and Studio City, like

(01:12:23):
nobody's talking about landownership.
And here we are, here we are inAustin, and now you know it this
probably isn't the case anymorebecause it's blown up so much.
But back then, just outside oftown in Elgin, you could buy
land for just you couldn't buy asingle apartment in LA for what
we bought 25 acres of land for.

(01:12:46):
And so it started with that, andthen we, you know, we were
intrigued by the tiny housemovement and cut to.
We're living out there on thisland in a in a refurbished, we
refurbished a Spartan trailer,and so we move out there with
our kids.
You know, they're like six andwell, let's see, but that time

(01:13:06):
they're like 14 and uh 11, yeah,something like that, right?
So we move out.
We were about to all four of usgo into the Spartan, and the day
I think two days before, we werethinking, like, what are we
doing?
Like this is crazy.
And May Lee, our daughter, wesort of talked with her about

(01:13:29):
what would you think if we gotMason an airstream and that be
his room?
And so it's sort of like shegave permission for Mason to
have his own room.
So we had the so Mason had theairstream adjacent to the
Spartan, and that's how welived.
And we lived there a coupleyears, like 240 square feet.

(01:13:49):
Wow, and uh yeah, it was wild.
And we called it Green Acresbecause we were rookies, and uh,
and it really just I learned alot and it was very difficult.
And I started riding, and what Idid just for fun, we had
donkeys, and then we hadalpacas, and so with the
donkeys, I they just why whydon't why not?

(01:14:14):
Donkeys are awesome, donkeys areamazing, and guess how much a
donkey James.
Guess how much a donkey costs toyou have all this land, right?
My wife is like Snow White lovesanimals, so she's the one that
suggests let's get a donkey.
So we look it up.
Guess what a donkey costsdelivered on Craigslist?

(01:14:37):
20 bucks.
20, 20 bucks.
You can get a donkey for 20delivered to your house.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:45):
Are you being serious?

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:46):
I'm dead serious.
Our donkeys, and so I named themDonkey and Yodie.
So it was Donkey Yody, and so wehad uh, and I love them, but
they just I had such a hard timewith them that I started writing
a blog and I called it storiesabout my ass.
And so that's what started allthis was I was writing these

(01:15:10):
stories and calling it storiesabout my ass, and it was like my
struggles and all of that.

And so you bought you bought a bunch of so because
they were so cheap two donkeys.
Oh, two two donkeys, twodonkeys, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:22):
Even though they were yeah, and then and then
Laverne and Shirley, which werethe alpacas, and so so donkey
was the first star of Amanda,what was originally called When
Jack Went Glap Glamping, thatwas the original film title,
When Jack Went Glamping, and soI pivoted from I was still

(01:15:42):
writing the stories about myass, but then I started writing
the script for Amanda and Jack,and uh and I wrote it there, you
know, in in in Elgin in BastropCounty, and um that so that's
kind of the origin in that one.
Like if in Sarony we had themusic first, in this we had the

(01:16:02):
set and the donkey first, andthen I built everything, right?
It's back to what do you have?
Like, what's the tool in yourhand?
I'm like, I've got a clampingretreat and I've got a donkey.
Um, let's let me write a storythat takes place here.
But here's the hilarious thing,James.
What I didn't so the film getsfinanced and cast and great,

(01:16:24):
everything happens, and Irealize, oh my gosh, I just made
a movie that happens in my home.
Where does my family live?
I had to kick my family, I hadto kick my family out of our
home to film a movie.
So we had to get an Airbnb intown for it.
I'm like, sorry, sorry guys.
I dad's gonna film a movie inyour in your room, you know, in

(01:16:49):
the house.
And so, yeah, so that's that'show that happened.
And that's a good case of uh afriend.
So this is a nice way ofblending those two stories.
Abe Martinez is somebody thatI'd worked with as a
cinematographer on somecommercial stuff, but he does TV
and film, and so it was theperfect blend of like a friend

(01:17:11):
who's talented, who knows film.
So he was my DP on that, andthat was super fun, like to get
to shoot that film with Abe.
So that's great.
I brought it all together on onmy fourth, fourth film.
So but yeah, that's that's howglamping came about.
So we shot it, shot it on our onour land.

And that's I think that's on Netflix or Amazon
Prime or Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:38):
It just came off Netflix, it was on Netflix for
years, and um, and uh and thatstarted did like a limited
limited theatrical and then wentright there, but now yeah, I
think it's Amazon and yeah, it'sDamie David Arquette and uh Amy
Acker, who was also in Saronia,who's so talented, she's

(01:18:01):
amazing.

Now when you when you're shooting when you were
shooting a um uh comedy, umyeah, it's very different.
Yeah, I'm curious if it um andand then maybe you can give us a
little backstory, maybe evenwith the the other films to it
in comparison.
But do you um uh do yourehearse?

(01:18:26):
Do you want to catch stuff kindof fresh right on set?
Um, I'm different directors havedifferent opinions on this.
What's your what's your process?

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:34):
Yeah, on the comedy, so I wanted to set tone.
So like I had David come out andstay in the um yurt in the
glamping retreat, and he tellsthe story, and it's hilarious.
He got terrified.
He was like complete, and it wasliterally like in character, it
was the best thing I did becausehe needed no direction to be

(01:18:58):
this guy that does not want tobe glamping because I just had
him spend a night and he did notwant to be glamping.
So um we actually it'sinteresting you say that because
I'm realizing now the scenes Irehearsed were not the comedic
scenes, so like there's a kindof a heartfelt scene where
they're in the Spartan, which isweird.

(01:19:18):
I will say it's very weird, andI didn't realize this until I'm
shooting and I'm like when Davidgoes, Well, we're filming, and
it's the bed that I sleep in inour Spartan trailer, and he's
going and David's like, Whichside do you sleep on?
And I go, This is weird.
I go, This is I didn't think Idid not think this through of
like directing people in my, youknow, this is really bizarre.

At least tell me at least tell me you change the
sheets.
That's the most yeah, we did.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:46):
We did, we did, absolutely, absolutely.
The uh, but yeah, we rehearsedthe the scene where they're
having a glass of wine and sortof it's more of a thoughtful
scene.
We rehearsed those and Thenspent a couple days together out
there and sort of built youknow, Aiden Canto was there as

(01:20:08):
well, and just sort of spenttime getting to know each other.
Um, and got to work with JuneSquibb on that film, which she's
amazing.

She's incredible.
Oh, yeah, she was in um what wasthat movie?

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:24):
Oh yeah.
What do you think?
So I try to keep thespontaneity.
I didn't rehearse, and I lovethat you're asking this question
because I I don't know that Ithought of it so strategically,
but in hindsight, I never likefully rehearsed something that
needed a good punch.
I just sort of broadly uh gotthere.
Part of that, you know, it's anindie film and you don't have a

(01:20:46):
ton, but part of it was tryingto keep those whatever's meant
to be funny fresh.

unknown (01:20:53):
Yeah.

How how collaborative are you on set?
You're, I mean, that one of thethings that I think is
interesting about a writerdirector is you have some
writers who hold to their linesvery precious, and you have
others who are like, no, I'llI'll you know, we'll workshop
it.
We'll whatever for youpersonally, the fact that you um
uh wrote the scripts as well,are are you uh really

(01:21:16):
collaborative with your actorson set, or do you are you more
like, hey, this is how I wroteit.
I want you to say the words thatI wrote.

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:24):
Yeah, I'm not the say the words that I wrote.
Um, but it'd be misleading tosay that I'm like full improv,
even though I personally havenow fallen in love with and
teach improv.
I am not like a big uh let'sjust you know, broad stroke.
This is just a map.
So I'm somewhere in between, Ithink.

(01:21:44):
Where I like to do a lot of thatis prior to shoot day.
So table read to me is huge.
And table read is where I go,hey guys, I'm not precious.
Now is the time to bring thesethings up, and then I'll try to
talk with each actor separatelyin terms of their character,

(01:22:07):
their story arc, where they'regoing, how they feel about it.
And then um, and then they willuh yeah, have have insight.
And then there's all on acomedy, especially, then there's
a little bit of playful, likeone of my favorite improvs in
that is improvised that wasbrought up day of is in

(01:22:28):
glamping.
I mean, it's not a profoundthing, but it just makes me
laugh.
Is that when David's coming outof the forest, he puts hand
sanitizer on, and it was justsomething that he had in his
pocket, I have it in my pocket.
You know, this is pre-COVID whenDavid and I were the only people
that thought Purel was awesome.
So uh it was kind of an insidejoke.

(01:22:51):
And then he on one take just itwas like he just needs to walk
out of the forest, and then hejust uses Purel, and it was
hilarious because it and it washilarious because it was on
point with his character, likethis guy's a little melonic, and
like how do you you know comingout of the forest as a
germaphobe was great.

(01:23:11):
So there were those kind ofmoments that you tried to, you
know, be open for that kind ofimprovisation, but I'm not like
off the rails, like hey, anyanything.
You know what's interesting?
I and this is on the commercialthing, and I'd be interested in
I bet there's other, I wonder ifthere's others like this.

(01:23:33):
This is a problem I have, andand I want to use this
opportunity to find out if I'malone.
It's that on set, I'm reallynice.
Okay, I try and be reallywelcoming, kind, just that's my
vibe, right?
On set, especially oncommercials and music videos.

(01:23:55):
It gives the false impressionthat I want input from a variety
of people.
And so, so I I now and I startedto do this, I will tell my A D I
go, look, somebody on set isgoing to like chime in, somebody
like on crew is gonna chime inwith an idea.

(01:24:18):
And the reason is I give thefalse impression that I want
input.

SPEAKER_02 (01:24:22):
Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 (01:24:23):
And so it like my kindness backfires at time.
So like I really need strongADs, and I talk to them.
I'm like, look, I'm I it's justmy MO.
I'm not playing a role.
I'm just like, I like people, Ienjoy it, let's all get along.
I really want on set, like Iwant everybody to be working

(01:24:44):
together.
I hate it when there's dayplayers.
Um, I have this huge thing atthe start where I say we treat
cell phones like cigarettes.
If you need to use your cellphone, it's over here.
Here's the you know, if you're asmoker, there's the smoking
place, and that's where you doit.
And then cell phones, I'mmilitant about like you go over

(01:25:06):
there and do it.
Do not, in between takes, bringout your phone.
Do not do that, especially likethe clapper.
You know, you'll have a dayplayer clapper, and he's on his
phone, and it's like you'reright by the actors, like you're
this is you're right there, andyou're killing it.
Anyway, I don't know if uh Iwould love to hear if I'm alone

(01:25:28):
in this struggle, or if anybodyelse is like the kindness like
backfires on you.
I've had some hilarious likepeople that just would
inappropriately throw out anidea and it's just comedy.
Yeah, totally, yeah, like that.

You know what you should do, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:25:47):
Or like a you know, a guy that's doing an amazing
job, you know, is dolly grip,but then all of a sudden he's
like, you know, it'd be funny,or you know, it'd be a good
idea.
I'm like, oh bro, this is not.
I have given the falseimpression that I am looking for
your ideas right now, which isand then you sound like a jerk,
so you know that's a weirdbecause I'm not gonna, you know,

(01:26:10):
I'm not gonna come back and dothat.
So the the answer is I tell thead, I go, this will happen.
And it's hilarious because thenit happens, I go, you're right.
Yeah, if you said that, thatwould happen.
So I just sort of rely on agreat AD to like keep it sharp
and let it be known that um mynice guy thing, it does not mean

(01:26:31):
that I do not have a very clearvision of exactly what we're
doing today, and we can have funand it can feel light, but it
doesn't mean we don't knowwhat's going on, you know what
what's happening, or like, hey,anybody got some ideas?
I don't know what we're gonna dohere.

So that sounds like the right process.
I I I've often uh been in thepast, I I have been told that um
uh uh like quieter directorsneed louder, stronger ads, and
then uh louder directors needquieter, softer ads.

(01:27:13):
Like there's a there's a balancethere when you you want that ad
to um to kind of serve theopposite of you so that you can
be unleashed, do what you do.
And you don't you don't need toyou don't need to be play the
bad guy, or you don't need to bethe one that's that's uh you
know sending everyone away withall these different ideas.

(01:27:33):
You have someone who's ablebecause imagine if you have an
AD who's equally like you, justputting putting off vibe of oh,
we're all collaborating, we'reall making, you know, like it
could be.

SPEAKER_00 (01:27:45):
I thought I thought it'd be a good idea, like bring
a friend that nobody knows, givethem a job, and then fire them
dramatically on the first dayjust to like scare everybody,
and then I can just go on and benice the rest of the time, just
do a big dramatic, like havethem cry and walk offset.
I'm just like, oh man, let'slet's stay focused.

That's hilarious.
That's hilarious.
Cast a cast an actor just forthe sole purpose, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:28:09):
Totally, yeah.
Yeah, what's this on the callsheet?

Fired guy fired the number two on the call.
Yeah, exactly.
That was amazing.
The fact that you're not in therat race, right?
The fact that you're not livingin LA, you're living in the rat
race, uh, and you're able tokind of be out of it.
Um, do you feel like it givesyou better perspective as an

(01:28:34):
artist?
Like you feel like uh forwhatever you might lose by not
being able to go to In N Out, doyou feel like in a I do miss
that?
I will say I miss that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:28:44):
And Mexican food.

Those are the two things.
Not great Mexican food here.
But do you feel like, in spiteof that, do you feel like these
lived experiences and whatyou're actually living now, do
you feel like it it actually umcreates new colors on your
palette as an artist that youcan draw from?
Um is that is that somethingthat is a goal of yours, or is

(01:29:07):
it just hey man, I'm living myliving my life, just do it my
no, it's definitely it'sdefinitely a goal, but I want to
combine both of your questions.

SPEAKER_00 (01:29:14):
I want to answer both of them in that does it
open up creatively?
Absolutely, absolutely.
Like I, you know, most of myfriends here are Portuguese,
they have totally differentperspective.
I'm trying to learn thelanguage, I'm struggling, I'm
failing, I I see the mostbeautiful things, I I dive into

(01:29:37):
my deepest insecurities.
Um, you know, Kierce and I areclose, we don't have a faith
community, and that's reallyhard.
Um, so it's the in some ways thebest of times, the worst of
times.
Hey, I should write that down.
Best of times, worst of times.
That's a good start.
Um but here's the on continuingthe honesty.

(01:30:01):
I don't know how optimistic I amabout it because I think I am in
a golden era of that creativityand all of that.
I don't know if anybody'slooking for that, right?
Like, I don't know what to dowith that.
Like, I feel like I'm on thisisland and I've got all this

(01:30:26):
stuff going on and the the thestruggles and the beauty and
that, but I'm on an islandliterally and figuratively, and
so the beauty of me not being inthe rat race also is I I'm not
in the game.
Like I've you know, it forsomeone like me, you could say

(01:30:49):
on one hand, like amazing forfilms.
The other thing you could say islike not none of you know I
missed it on Netflix, maybe, oryou know, like I've seen one of
them, I've seen like not amonster, you know, uh just
amazing that I've made a careerout of it and I've done it, but

(01:31:11):
nobody's like uh oh no, he's onan island, let's get him back,
you know, because I'm not in therat race, and so that is the
career side of it ischallenging.
So it's tough because what's theperfect balance?
Like I've got your secondquestion.
I feel like I'm there's a lot ofbeauty happening.

(01:31:35):
I I'm wrestling, I'm I'mwriting, I'm I'm struggling, I'm
I'm seeing beautiful things.
I come home from surfing and I'mlike, this is God is good, and
you know, and I see thesethings.
But then it's like yeah, yeah,but then what do I do with that?
Like, what's my next, you know,if Catherine happens, that'd be

(01:31:57):
great, but what if it doesn't?
Yeah, right.
And what if this doc doesn't goanywhere?
Um, I'm not in a position, youknow, there's not like the
Azurian Film Commission that islike gonna, you know, give me a
gig.
And so it's pretty extreme.
Like the answer to your like I'mI'm going, I'm swinging for the

(01:32:18):
fences on it because I'mextremely out of the rat race.
Like uh, you know, top top fivepeople you know that are not in
a rat race right now.
Like I have, you know, I'm gonnawalk out, you know, onto this.
If you could see where I, youknow, would walk out after this,
you're like, you're not in therat race.

(01:32:39):
But the flip side is I'm not,you know, I'm not headed to set
tomorrow either.
So, you know, I'm shooting myown things and doing that.
And I I miss you know,community, it really is
community.
That's the thing I I miss.
And so my favorite thing, peoplego, what's your favorite thing?
Writing, this, that, and I go,day on set.

(01:33:02):
Oh my gosh, actors and that,everything from the you know,
costume designer to that, thecollaboration.
I'm just like, oh, I love it,love it.
And then even the editorial I'veworked with.
I mean, if you look at theeditors, I've like where I am in
my career and the editors I'veworked with, there's a huge talk
about like working with youknow, Sandra Adair, who's done

(01:33:24):
every one of Link Letters films,you know, and then does my film.
I tell her she says I'm I'm hersecond favorite director.
And um, so I've been reallyfortunate, but that relationship
I love.
Yeah, and so the flip side islike I'm on an island, and so
how do I and the best versionwould be I just travel, you

(01:33:47):
know.
Being empty ness, I can just,you know, when a job comes, I
travel, but we have not thatpump has not been primed back
back open.
There's no there's no Disney,there's no commercial, and you
know, this uh isn't a seasonwhere something other than that
I write somebody's you knowtracking down they're looking

(01:34:12):
for a young up-and-comer, youknow, they're not they're not
searching for me on an island.
So I don't know.
I don't know how I mean it'sgonna be it's gonna be really
interesting.
You know, we've all we haven'teven been here six months.
We've been in Portugal for ayear, and the creative side, the
soulful side, the thetherapeutic side is high.

(01:34:36):
Career, I'm hopeful because Ibelieve getting back to the
teaching, I believe that if youdon't have that, you're just
gonna make crap.
Like if you're if you're in LAonly seeing what everybody else
is doing in that rat race, Ithink quickly, and I don't mean
this in a judgmental way, butyou're just gonna start churning

(01:34:56):
out the same thing as everyoneelse.
And you know, I'm optimistic,and what I want to believe is
that the greatest stuff wouldcome from somebody living on an
island in the middle of theAtlantic Ocean.
Yeah, you know, I just am notthere, I just don't know.
I haven't done it yet.
I wish I could say I have.
You so I'm getting there, I'm inprocess.

Yeah, and and you know this to be true, and it's
just something that I thinkbears repeating.
I've said it before, and and inthat this uh it's important for
the in this industry, is likethere everyone wants to know,
everyone's looking for the nextthing, the new voice, right?
And it's and that's always sincethe beginning of the business,

(01:35:39):
they've all it's always beenabout finding the next person,
next step, next step, like who'sthe new voice, right?
Um, and in the mean, in themeanwhile, um you have uh
someone like you who's been inthe business, who is now living
life at a different at adifferent clip.
And it's you are uh like gainingall these experiences, you're

(01:36:03):
developing yourself as a personin terms of just your mental
health and and and and justeverything going on with your
life.
And that that is that is feedingyour soul and developing, you
know, filling up that cup thatnow you have more stories to
tell.
And to your point, we don't knowif they're interested, they you

(01:36:25):
know, we don't know if they'reinterested in those new stories,
but I but I will say this itsounds like you're coming from a
place of real um of real peace.
And it and it sounds like you'recoming from a place of of
wholeness, which is somethingthat I think for a lot of us
younger in the rat race thatthat are listen, maybe listening
to this podcast, um, that issomething that I think um it

(01:36:50):
cannot be overstated.
And that is as a person of faithworking in this business, you
cannot find your identity inyour work.
You cannot find your identity inthis business.
Your wholeness, yourcompleteness, your peace cannot
be in what you do, it has tocome from your identity and your

(01:37:13):
relationship and how youidentify with Christ and those
around you.
Your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 (01:37:19):
Yeah, no, I think that's the you nailed it.
I mean, I I think that's it.
You have to disconnect thosethings.
And I'm reminded too, like thegarbage in, garbage out, right?
Just super, super simple.
It happens in our lives, but italso happens artistically,
right?
Like if you're not feedingyourself with good, true, and

(01:37:41):
beautiful things, uh, it's a lotto ask for you to create
something good, true, andbeautiful.
So, you know, input input equalsoutput.
So I love that.

I love that.
That is a great place to I thinkto wrap up our conversation and
uh Brandon, man, you I I loveyou, buddy.
This has been a fantastic thing.
I'm so uh I'm so just so soimpressed with your heart and
your story and just everythingthat uh you've done.
And and uh I know uh so manypeople who just love you, and I

(01:38:17):
and I know why.
You just you have this you havethis presence about you, and I
and I think that the people onthat island get to experience
that right now.
They get to come in.

SPEAKER_00 (01:38:28):
So I'm happy for you.

Come visit.
I would love to be come on out,come.
I'm gonna look for I'm gonnalook for for flights and we'll
see.

SPEAKER_00 (01:38:37):
Yeah, do it.
Yeah, direct from Boston or fromNewark.
So come on, yeah.

We'll do a we'll do a uh a follow-up podcast
one-on-one, be like live fromthe island.

SPEAKER_00 (01:38:49):
Yeah, that'd be great.
We're here, we're at theretreat.
The source island retreats ithappening.
Here we are.
Yeah, that'd be awesome.

Hey man, this has been fantastic.
I I I really appreciate yougiving me your time.
I always like to close ourpodcasts by praying for our
guests.
I wonder if you would allow meto do that now.

SPEAKER_00 (01:39:07):
Uh absolutely.
I will take it, James.
Thank you.

Let's pray.
Heavenly Father, thank you fortoday and thank you for Brandon.
Thank you for just um just whohe is and uh how you have
uniquely created him to tellstories, um, uh tell stories
that resonate with the humanheart.
Uh God, the the way you havecrafted him to visualize um

(01:39:34):
stories that um matter uh in inin in in ways that sometimes
don't always um uh connect atfirst, but but the more we um um
watch them and and and and uhruminate over them, they they
continue to seep in truths.

(01:39:54):
And sometimes, God, that's thatis one of the most difficult
things for an And yet it justseems like Brandon is just it
just comes naturally for him.
So we thank you for thank youfor that.
Thank you for the way he seeslife.
And uh God, we just pray youwould uh bless his time on the
island.
Bless him his relationship withhis wife and his kids.

(01:40:16):
Um God, uh, we pray that thiswould be a fruitful season for
them as a couple, um, for hiswife's um work as as well as for
Brandon's.
We pray that uh they wouldconnect with people on the
island and that not only wouldtheir soul be refreshed, but
they would be a blessing andbenefit to those around them.
And and God, we do pray that umfor this new project he's

(01:40:39):
working on, for all um the otherfuture endeavors he has, that we
pray that as he develops thesestories that you birth inside of
him, we pray, God, that youwould send the audience, that
you would send the investors,that you would send the other
people who um would alsoresonate with the stories that
you're giving him, that that umthat draw out so much in us.

(01:40:59):
And and and we pray, God, thatthat uh he'd be able to uh
continue to create works oftruth, goodness, and beauty uh
wherever he is uh in this world.
And uh we just thank you forjust this time.
Just pray a blessing upon theirentire family.
And uh we love you, God.
We pray this in Jesus' name andyou promise to be standing.
Amen.
Thank you for listening to theAct One podcast, celebrating

(01:41:22):
over 20 years as the premiertraining program for Christians
in Hollywood.
Act One is a Christian communityof entertainment industry
professionals who train andequip storytellers to create
works of truth, goodness, andbeauty.
The Act One program is adivision of Master Media
International.
To financially support themission of Act One or to learn
more about our programs, visitus online at Act OneProgram.com.

(01:41:46):
And to learn more about the workof Master Media, go to
Mastermedia.com.

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