Writer/Director Christine Swanson

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Act One Podcast - Episode 44 - Interview with Director and Screenwriter, Christine Swanson.

Christine Swanson is the writer/director of the new film, ALBANY ROAD, starring Renée Elise Goldsberry and Lynn Whitfield. The film is about a New York executive who is forced to share a rental car with her ex-fiancé's mother, only to discover that the mother is hiding a major secret. The film is being released in theaters on November 15th.

A visionary storyteller from Detroit, multiple award-winning director Christine Swanson earned her MFA in Film from New York University’s Tisch School of the Arts, one of the nation’s top-ranked graduate film programs. Recognized early as a talented filmmaker, Christine was selected by NYU faculty as the Willard T.C. Johnson Fellow, the most prestigious fellowship given to the student who has achieved high standards in his or her work. CNN identified Christine as one of the most promising filmmakers to emerge from NYU’s graduate film program since Martin Scorsese, Ang Lee, Oliver Stone and Spike Lee (Christine’s NYU directing teacher). Christine earned her Bachelor of Arts degree from the University of Notre Dame, double majoring in Film Theory and Japanese. She was chosen by the Notre Dame Alumni Association as The Rev. Arthur S. Harvey Award recipient, acknowledging her achievements in the arts. 

Christine has developed, written and/or directed entertainment projects for HBO Films, Lionsgate, Universal Television, Warner Bros. Television, CBS Television Studios, TV One, A&E Networks, BET Films, Starz and Faith Filmworks. Christine’s movie directing credits include the network and cable television records breaking The Clark Sisters: The First Ladies of Gospel, starring Academy Award nominee Aunjanue Ellis. The film won “Best TV Movie” from the African American Film Critics Association and the Satellite TV Award for “Best Television Movie.” The film was nominated for five NAACP Image Awards including “Outstanding Directing in a Television Motion Picture” for Christine and a Critics’ Choice Awards Nomination for “Best Television Movie.” Christine also directed Aunjanue Ellis in their powerful short film, Fannie, about the ground-breaking testimony of human, voting and civil rights icon, Fannie Lou Hamer, in front of the Democratic National Convention’s Credentials Committee in 1964. Fannie earned an NAACP Image Award nomination for “Outstanding Short Form Film" and won two awards at the Bronzelens Film Festival (best acting and best short). 

Christine has also directed All About You, All About Us, To Hell and Back, Love Under New Management: The Miki Howard Story (which broke network ratings as the most watched original movie in the network’s history) and For the Love of Ruth, for which Christine earned an NAACP Image Award nomination for “Outstanding Directing in a Television Motion Picture.” In addition to writing the above movies, Christine was a screenwriter for Woman Thou Art Loosed. Christine recently completed her award- winning feature film, Albany Road which stars Hamilton star Renee Elise Goldsberry and the legendary Lynn Whitfield. 

Some of Christine’s television directing credits include episodes of Chicago P.D., P- Valley, FBI, All American, All American: Homecoming, Found, MacGyver, Sweet Magnolias, Bel-Air, BMF and Roswell, New Mexico. Her memorable episode of Chicago P.D., entitled “Black and Blue,” was rated “Best Episode” of Season 6 by Fansided. 

The Act One Podcast provides insight and inspiration on the business and craft of Hollywood from a Christian perspective.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Movie making is about characters who transform.
So we're going through thattransformation process as
characters are learning andevolving and ultimately they
change 180 degrees from how theystarted.
It's almost like a walkingtestimony type experience and at
the end of the day, whoo,hallelujah.

(00:26):
We've had a church experience,but watching cinema and
experiencing a transformationprocess happening with a
character and we get toparticipate because it's an
empathy-producing machine thisis what I'm saying it almost
feels like church you arelistening to the act one podcast

(00:54):
.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
I'm your host, james Duke.
Thanks for tuning in.
If you like what you hear,please subscribe to our podcast
and leave us a good review.
My guest today is writerdirector Christinector Christine
Swanson.
Christine's developed, writtenand directed for HBO, lionsgate,
universal, warner Brothers, cbs, a&e, bet, starz and many more.
Some of her film creditsinclude the Clark Sisters, the

(01:16):
First Ladies of Gospel, allAbout you To Hell and Back and
For the Love of Ruth, along withher latest film, albany Road,
which is in theaters now.
So go check it out.
Christine also has extensiveexperience directing television,
such as Chicago, pd, p-valley,fbi, all-american, found,
macgyver, sweet, magnolias andBel-Air.

(01:36):
Christine is an accomplishedalum of the Act One program.
She's full of a lot of wisdomand insight.
I really hope you enjoy ourconversation today.
Christine Swanson, welcome tothe Act One podcast.

(02:01):
It's great to have you.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Glad to be here.
Thank you for having me Act.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
One podcast.
It's great to have you, glad tobe here.
Thank you for having me.
Christine, I'm a big fan ofyours, I think you do some
amazing stuff and I want to makesure that we spend time just
talking to you about all kindsof stuff.
But there's a project comingout of your latest endeavor,
which is a film that you wroteand directed and it's called
Albany Road, and I had theprivilege to watch it.
It's fantastic.

(02:25):
Congratulations, thank you.
Let's start there.
Let's start with Albany Road.
What was the, what was theimpetus for Albany Road?
Because obviously you're aprofessional, you've been
working as a writer, directorfor years, and so what made you
decide to strike out and makethis film now?
What made you decide to strikeout and make this film now?

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well, this is a story that I probably started writing
or thinking about 20 years ago,wrote it within the last 10
years and then I've beenshopping it around Hollywood and
just I didn't get any bites.
The couple of bites that I didget was really.
One was from this, uh, aproducer of faith who really

(03:05):
loved the storytelling and feltthat there was, he saw this as a
faith-based movie and he reallywanted to make it and take it
to market.
Another one was anotherproducer who wanted to take it
to fox searchlight, thought itwould be a perfect film for fox
searchlight.
And he, he said, well, I'mgoing to find, I'm going to go

(03:26):
attach a director to this andI'm going to take this to Fox
Searchlight.
And at that point I was likewhoa, I'm a director, like who
has, who wrote out of necessity,and so either I direct this or
not.
And his response was well, whoare you?

(03:47):
You know?
and at that point he's like Idon't think I can sell you.
And I said, well, I think Icould sell myself, and but he
didn't want to put me in frontof Box Searchlight.
So I said, well, I'm going totake my script and I'm going to
keep it moving and thank you forconsidering it.
And, by the way, you havedaughters, I know, and one day I

(04:07):
hope your daughters don't facesomebody like you who is small
minded in their ability to thinkthat a woman cannot direct the
script that she wrote.
So that was that.
And then it sat on the shelffor another five years or so and
then I just delved intotelevision directing.
For probably the last five years, I've been kind of, you know,

(04:30):
pounding the pavement with that,and then, right at the end of
2022, I just felt a nudge, andthat nudge was it's time, a
nudge, and that nudge was it'stime, you know, and time for
what?
And God's like go, go do AlbanyRoad.
And I was like but with whatbudget?

(04:51):
With what money?
Like we don't, we don't.
And then I just I'm like, no,no, no, that's not right.
So I just kept focusing on TVdirecting, tv directing, and at
a certain point, god kept comingback.
He was like you need it's timeto go do this movie.
I said, but what money?

(05:11):
And he's like well, what do youhave?
I'm like we don't, we don't, wedon't have it.
Okay, lord, I all I have is afish and a loaf.
What am I gonna do with that?
And I kid you not, god was likemove just.
And this movie ended up being100% financed by my husband,
producer Michael Swanson, andmyself, and we just started with

(05:37):
not enough money, just wentinto production, and then we're,
just we're pulling money fromall different sources.
Not sure if a couple of my kidswill make it to college just
using the resources that we had,which really, at the end of the

(05:58):
day, those are God's resources,and what God can do with our
little.
And what God can do with ourlittle is the end result of that
is Albany Road.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
Wow, and I can tell you, having seen the film, it
looks like an expensive film.
I don't know what your finalbudget was, but it looks like a
quality, high production, studioreleased, released film.
So you guys definitely knowwhat you're doing.

(06:29):
I, I, um, the the.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe story.
Um, uh, you said you've beenworking on this now for over 10
plus years.
Um, and, and it's interestingfor those who you know, I'm not
going to give anything away.
We want you to go see the film,but it's your film is structured
, I think, in a reallyinteresting way and that it

(06:51):
starts as a two hander and thenit shifts.
So like the first hour of thefilm is like a two hander and
then it shifts and becomessomething else and then it kind
of shifts.
You know, it's just, it's areally interesting structure
because it's part road trip,part family drama.
Can you just talk about it?
Because it seems like it alsohas maybe a deeply personal film

(07:16):
.
There's some parts to it.
So I'm just curious where didthe story come from?
Where did you get inspired?
And then, how much of it haschanged over the years?
Or is what we're watching todaywhat you first wrote?

Speaker 2 (07:31):
What we're watching today is probably 90% what I
first wrote Wow.
So most of that is in the movieand the few changes I'll
explain.
But many years ago I did afeature film called All About
you almost now 25 years ago andit starred Renee Elise
Goldsberry, who is a star ofAlbany Road and who, debbie

(07:55):
Allen, was also in my movie.
And then I would watch Reneeand Debbie Allen interact and I
thought, wow, that is reallyinteresting, like they're so
funny together.
And then I thought, wow, thatis really interesting, like
they're so funny together.
And then I thought, you know,in my head I'm like, oh, it
would be interesting to putthose two in a movie.
And I was like, oh, it shouldbe a road trip movie.
And then it was like, oh, itshould be in a snowstorm, you

(08:17):
know.
So I just mind that in the backof my head and then fast forward
later, like my husband's momdealt with some health issues
and a lot of it she kept hiddenfrom us Because that's what
parents do, I think, sometimesand I was just marveling at the

(08:37):
fact that this could occur andit really stayed with me in a
deep way.
So I just combined those twoelements and I'm like I'm going
to make a movie together abouttwo intergenerational women who
find each other and they hateeach other but they're forced to

(08:59):
go on a road trip together andthen I'm going to put them in a
snowstorm, they're going to haveto go through all these kind of
obstacles and I'm going to makeit a comedy and a rom-com.
So it was just a challenge ofall of that and putting it into
storytelling and just to seecould this work?
And so and mind you, I'm agraduate of the Act One writing

(09:20):
program, I went to NYU filmschool and I trained as a
filmmaker, director primarily.
And at some point in my life Idecided, like you know, I'm not,
I wasn't getting work as adirector, but people were coming
to me for writing jobs and Ijust felt like I don't feel,
like I have the training, like Iwas just writing based on pure

(09:45):
talent, meaning like as adirector, so I can reverse
engineer things.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
Yeah, it was intuitive for you.
You were just like absolutely.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
I did feel that I lacked the structural tools to
do it like from a blank page,you know.
So that's why I actually wentto act one, I think in, and I
did the writing program.
I really felt like that kind ofgave me the foundation to
really be a true screenwriter.
So I can say with confidencelike I'm a director and a

(10:19):
screenwriter, you know so, inpost-Act One, I wrote Albany
Road and I just felt like youknow so.
And post act one, I wroteAlbany Road and I just felt like
you know.
And then as a director, I'mlike this is a movie that I know
I could make, that I want tosee.
You know, part of it was likehow do I make this?
And, honestly, like I thoughtit was supposed to be this

(10:41):
budget and, as you can tell,like production wise, based on
what you see, I don't know thatit could have been any better if
a student had made it.
You know what I mean, right,including with the talent, with
the level of talent that we had.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
It's a great cast.
It's a great cast yeah.
No, I agree with you.
That's the cool thing aboutwatching an indie film where you
just go, wow, this and thisisn't.
And some people might even takethis as a negative.
I don't mean it's negative, butthere's shot it, the production
value that you see that's onscreen, uh, it's really well

(11:29):
done.
It's, it's a um, it's aninteresting story about these
two women who, um, go on thisroad trip and then kind of uh,
things in their lives begin tobecome revealed and and um, uh,
renee is fantastic in it.
But we have to, we have to talkabout Lynn Um.
So, lynn Whitfield, who I'msure many people who will

(11:54):
recognize, she, uh, I don'tthink I've ever seen her in a
role like this before.
Um, and it's she's in a rolelike this before and it's she's
funny, she's sarcastic, she'sbiting, and yet she's also
deeply flawed and human and shehas these like towards the.

(12:15):
There's a reveal about midwaythrough the film.
That's it's this quiet momentthat you filmed with her.
That is quite beautiful, it's.
It's a little startling Becauseit's the subject.
What's happening is reallyintense, but it's, it's a quiet

(12:36):
moment, it's a beautifulperformance by her.
Can you just talk about, like,the casting process of this film
and and, and there's just youras a, you know, as a director,
you've written something and nowyou're trying to see it come to
life, and what was the processof of casting like and what?
What?
What was it like working withRenee and Lynn?

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Well, I'll say with Renee I cast her in my first
feature film and I hadauditioned over 200 women and
Renee walked in the door.
She didn't even audition.
I was like that's her.
I was that that person is astar and I hope she can act.
And it turns out that onlybecause she act she can sing her

(13:22):
butt off.
She can do a few things, right,yeah, maybe one, a Tony for it
for Hamilton.
So that it was.
I always had Renee in the backof my mind to play the lead, but
I actually wrote it for like a30-year-old Renee and, fast
forward, I ended up casting the50-something-year-old Renee, and
that's one of the things thatwe changed in the writing is

(13:44):
that when I cast Jay AlphonseNicholson to play opposite her,
he's considerably younger thanher.
So we were like, what can we doto justify this cougar looking
relationship without it feelinglike a cougar relationship?
And then that's why we embeddedinto the storytelling that they
met when she's at a place inher life that having a family is

(14:05):
no longer an option.
So that's that's the 10 percentthat that changed to uh,
accommodate, uh, where?
Where the actors right now?
And it really I think it workedout beautifully.
Um so.
So when renee agreed to do it,I knew I had a movie.
So, um, now the casting of lynnis interesting because we had
another actress on board and welost her two weeks before

(14:27):
shooting no yes.
So we went down the casting listand it's funny because I didn't
.
I never saw lynn whitfield asthis character.
No, there was a part of me thatresisted casting her, which is
utterly ridiculous now.
But I just want to own up tothe fact that it was by God's
grace that we have LynnWhitfield and not by my genius,

(14:52):
because my lack of genius couldnot foresee what Lynn Whitfield
could do until Lynn Whitfielddid it.
And actually I knew this when Ihad we offered her the role and
I had a meeting with her and Iwas like, oh my gosh, we offered
her this role.
I don't know if she could do it, but you know the way things

(15:14):
are set up you have to make anoffer first.
So when I had I had a FaceTimemeeting with her and she called
me from Louisiana, where she'sfrom, and 10 seconds talking to
the real Lynn Whitfield, I waslike, oh my gosh, she could do
this.
Uh, because mainly the thecharacter Paula required, um,

(15:39):
just a real.
The word that Lynn and I usedis a folksy element.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
She's grounded yes.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yes, there's no air to her beyond her own arrogance,
but she was just grounded insomething that was different
than what we would see LynnWhitfield in, say, like in
Greenleaf, right, right.
So it was just a question ofdid I feel that she can do it?
And in the conversation I knewright away she could.

(16:06):
And then we were lucky enoughthat she was like you know, I
want to, I want to do this andI'm like OK.
So I call that God's divineprovidence, because I think God
knew that it was time for Lynnto get her flowers.
And I think in this role,everywhere we have screened it,
people just go bananas over herperformance and it's just, it's

(16:30):
beautiful to watch because she'sso deserving of it, but in a
but not seeking it.
She's not seeking flowers andthat's exactly why you give them
their flowers, you know,because she's just, she just put
in work and it was work for her.
It was work for her to groundthis character, because her

(16:51):
go-to is is this more, um, uh,erudite?

Speaker 3 (16:58):
erudite, yeah, regal, almost, yes, yes, and it was
like crush the regal land.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
And then, even at certain times, I'm times I'm
like Lynn.
There are gonna be times when Ineed you not to wear makeup.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
And she was like what ?

Speaker 2 (17:12):
And I'm like, yes, we have to just take off the mask.
Take off the mask, and it was alittle bit of a step for her
but she just leaned into it.
That's what I'm saying like itwasn't just an everyday acting
role.
This is oscar level type of ofcommitment and performance and

(17:34):
and delivery of of thischaracter that she had to pull
out of the the recesses of ofher toolkit to make sure that
this character showed up in theway that she did.
So that's just that kind ofwork.
Ethic and allegiance to thestory is just amazing.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
What's your process for working with actors?
What's your process for workingwith actors?
You mentioned about talking tothem about makeup, things like
that.
A lot of people don't realize.
Oftentimes, with indie films,there's not usually a lot of
time to rehearse, so I'm notsure if you guys had any kind of

(18:21):
rehearsal or whatever.
So just walk us through.
What's your process likeworking with direct actors on
set?

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Well, I would say that most of the actors that I
chose for the lead roles werepeople that I knew or worked
with.
So J Alphonse Nicholson Idirected him in Pea Valley.
So when I directed him, likeday one, I looked at this guy
and I was like this guy's amovie star and he doesn't even
know it.
And that's when you have tosnatch people up before they get

(18:48):
, before they know in theirheads that oh, I'm, I'm Denzel,
because they're more amenable toworking with you on the lower
budget.
So, I looked at that guy and Iwas like he's, he's a young
Marlon Brando.
I looked at that guy and I waslike he's a young Marlon Brando
and I just got excited aboutthat because you don't see that

(19:09):
every day and I just felt like Idiscovered something and like
it was a secret.
And like obviously it's not asecret because he was discovered
to be cast on P-Valley and he'smagnificent in that.
But I saw him differently, as aleading man playing opposite
for renee gillsbury and becauseof their age difference nobody
would think of them as a couplein a movie and I'm telling you,

(19:34):
their chemistry sizzles like somuch it's like it's.
It's just like um tom hanks andand megan and.
Megan Meg Ryan.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Meg.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
Ryan, that kind of special energy and so, just as a
director, that's what I'mdirecting for what is it that we
can create that feels magical,that will pop off screen and
touch audiences?
So a lot of times, like becauseI have, because I've worked
with them, I know what they cando, maybe before they know what
they can do.
I know what they can do, maybebefore they know what they can

(20:05):
do, or they know what they cando and I know what I want them
to do.
And it's really creating thatsynergy and being on the same
page.
So I already know theirinstrument because that's why I
cast them.
So with our film we did not haveany rehearsal process and even
Lynn Whitfield because she'sreally old school, I'm talking

(20:28):
from the Negro ensemble theaterdays and she kept saying I
really think we should have hada table read and we just didn't
have time to get all the actorswhere we needed to go.
And I think it kind of workedin our favor that we didn't do a
table read.
I'm sure Lynn would disagree,but it was like because we were
working off immediate andexpedient energy and we shot

(20:52):
this film in 23 days so wedidn't have a lot of time.
That's fast, you know, tofigure out everything, but I
think once these actors likeespecially around that dinner
table scene, they got to feeleach other's energy, it started
to solidify and then fireworksjust started to pop off.

Speaker 3 (21:14):
So that's a big set piece.
Talk about that.
When you scheduled that, didyou schedule that early in the
middle?

Speaker 2 (21:21):
late, because that's everybody yeah, that was
scheduled like at the top ofpre-production or prep, because
once we had the location we knewthat we had to get everybody
there.
For that, maybe for that dinnertable scene alone we shot three

(21:41):
days.
Oh wow, yeah, we had over 14hours of footage for a 12 minute
scene.
Wow.
So it was.
It was very well thought outand covered and you know, the
magic on that at that table wasjust.
It was this kind of crazysynergy.

(22:01):
And it's interesting because Istarted off with the first
close-up, I started on LynnWhitfield and normally you save
the close-up for a talent ofthat level for last and honestly
, in hindsight, I don't know,what I was thinking.

(22:22):
I was just thinking in order,seating order and like, so wham,
we just put camera on lynn andshe's just going non-stop,
non-stop, non-stop and like, andthen that's when I think the
other cast members was like ohmy goodness, I better bring my
a-game yeah yeah, and it justworked out really well.
So, um, the guy who plays billy,his name is joe holt.
He's an actor that I directedin Bel Air and All-American

(22:44):
Homecoming, and he's such anactor of another level than I
was.
I just in my mind, in my head,I'm like I'm going to use him
one day I don't know what yet,but I'm going to use him.
I just stored him.
So when I did this easy, easycall to make like this is you
come play with us?

Speaker 3 (23:07):
I thought your cast had really good chemistry.
So can we talk?
Just let's.
Let's get in the weeds a littlebit here, for if we've got some
aspiring directors listening tothis, that so the so the table
scene.
If you haven't seen the filmyet, there's what 10 characters
around the table.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
So that's actually.
People don't realize this.
Shooting a 10 person tablescene is actually challenging.
Can you walk us through?
How do you get coverage?
How do you shoot?
What was your thought processin planning Cause you don't have
a lot of time but you did takethree days.
That's amazing.

(23:39):
Talk about shooting sceneswhere you have that many
characters, that, all by the way, they all have lines, they all
have reaction shots.
Can you just talk about that?

Speaker 2 (23:52):
Yes, so.
So I've wanted I've alwayswanted to do an epic dinner
table scene a lot in Europeanmovies that are done super well
and I wanted everybody to havesignificant emotional moments
and I didn't want to cheatanybody of the nuances of what

(24:16):
they were feeling.
So I knew to cover that scene.
We're just constantly movingthe camera around so everybody
has their moment.
So I'm shooting everybody'scoverage in a standard classical
way.
So you have all the actorsrepeating that whole scene.

(24:37):
So you multiply.
There were eight people there,okay, and on average maybe I'll
do two to three takes, all right.
So three times eight already is24.
That's just on the close ups,right, and then with a two
camera setup and then we'redoing wide shots and I probably

(24:58):
have like two or three wide shotangles of that, three wide shot
angles of that.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
So let's just say that 30 times.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
We're doing that whole scene 30 times and it's a
long, and it's a long scene 12minutes, right, with multiple
angles, and every time the actorsee, the actor's job is to
repeat, right, so it's.
It's like they were, they weregracious and they were patient,
but for three days we did it 30times and what you see?
The end result of that is theediting of of the, the, the, the

(25:37):
best moments of those 30 takesand were you and did you, uh,
highlight?

Speaker 3 (25:42):
I mean, obviously you wrote the script, but did you
go in and kind of highlight,okay, um, this, this line is
their moment, this reaction shot.
I gotta get this reaction shot.
When you're planning your shotlist, are you looking at,
looking at all that?

Speaker 2 (25:57):
right.
So um it, my shot was wasmainly about getting the proper
coverage and then, as I'mshooting them if I'm okay now,
this is Renee's close-up, so asI'm watching it on the monitor,
I'm fine-tuning things.
Okay, so we'll do a rehearsaltake, you know, and then we'll

(26:19):
do the take-take and, based onthe take and, mind you, these
actors are high caliber, so theyhave made choices about what
their, about their performances,so, and and nine times out of
ten, they're always on point.
So my job is to fine-tunesomething.
If there's something that Iwant that they're not giving me,
I'll tell them.
Okay, on this take at thispoint, but a, b, c and d make

(26:41):
this adjustment and they'll dothat, and so I did that for
every single actor.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
Yeah, yeah.
And they all have TV experienceso they know how to come in and
hit their mark and go, you knowkind of thing.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
All of them have film and TV experience.
Yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
So when you are so, let's take a step back, maybe
not necessarily this scene, butjust the writing process.
When you are crafting a scene,you've got moments right that

(27:20):
obviously have to move the plotforward, right right, but
there's a lot of character workin this film.
So I'm curious how much room doyou at all create for any kind
of improvisation, any kind ofwhat is kind of your Because
it's your script?
I'm just curious Was there anyrewriting on the spot?

(27:43):
Was there any?
Just what was that like?

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Well, honestly, really 90% of the script is what
you see in the movie, but thereare moments of improvisation
that happen in the moment that Ithink some of the actors found
that they just rolled with itand it just becomes right.

(28:12):
Of course, that right.
So that's really a function ofbeing tuned into who your
character is and what choiceswould they make and whether or
not sometimes they do it.
They don't run it by mesometimes, and it's like they do
it in character and if it works, it works.
If it doesn't, I'm like, don'tdo that this time, you know, but

(28:34):
I'm telling you they were there, you know, and I don't want to
give certain things away because, but I know certain things were
like improvised.
That really made the momentmore poignant.
Yeah, I didn't write like.
I'll just sayyle.
Pouring at the table when hepoured oh yeah, yeah, he did

(28:57):
that in the moment, okay, andthen it's, it's like now, it's
like so hilarious.
You know that I'm you, I'mgonna get credit for that.
But, honestly, the actorsreally found, um, the the juicy
pieces that that brought scenesto life in in ways that I could
not have thought of.
And that's part of writing is,you give the foundation and then

(29:22):
you have to let the actors dotheir work and find who these
people are and let them expressit in the way that actors do.
And again, my job is to justyay it or nay it, but nine times
out of ten I'm rooting for yourchoices because I trust your

(29:46):
take on who this character is.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
One of the things that I noticed about this film
and you.
I just found it, I found thisinteresting and I wanted to ask
you about it.
I was pleasantly surprised thatthere were quite a few scenes
in this movie that you reallylet kind of air out and breathe
and take its time.
And I was thinking about youbeing this, you know, very

(30:15):
successful TV director and Ithought, oh, you know, like
typically in TV your scenes are,you know, two pages and you're
out, one and a half pages andyou're out, and you have quite a
few scenes in this movie thatyou really spend time with.
The characters is a lot of.
I'm just, was that, um, wasthat intentional on your part?

(30:36):
Just because the, thecharacters there's, the work
that you're trying to completewith some of these scenes, it
just I I just thought, oh, thisis not, this doesn't feel like
tv, this feels like film interms of the, in terms of the
way the scenes, a lot of thescenes flowed and were edited.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Okay, so this is my seventh feature film, yeah.
No, but I know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
Well, I know you as a TV director.
That's what.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
I'm saying so when I looked at it.
Yeah, yeah, I'm a filmmakerfirst.
Yeah, and even when I directtelevision, like most people are
like, wow, you direct like afilmmaker I'm like, well, how,
how else does one direct?
You know, is is.

(31:23):
I look at it because, um, we,we work in a cinematic medium,
whether it's TV or film.
It's how are we using umcinematic tools to express
storytelling, right?
So I think what you see andfeel is is is really the
manipulation of cinematic toolsto highlight storytelling.
And it's interesting thatyou're like, well, this doesn't

(31:45):
feel like TV.
It depends on what kind of TVyou watch, because sometimes a
lot of television is verycinematic, like like P-Valley or
or BMF.
I've directed and recently Idid an episode of Bel Air, but I
shot it like a movie.
So it's going to feel like amovie although it's television.
So I feel like that's mydirecting style, no matter what

(32:07):
the medium is Right.
So it's no different withAlbany Road, is is I'm going for
mostly cinematic, becausethat's the mandate as far as
filmmaking goes.
For me, again, it doesn'tmatter if it's big screen or
small screen.
And to that end, mycinematographer, spencer Combs I
actually worked with him on apilot and he just hit it off so

(32:31):
well.
And I kept him in mind for whenI did this movie and I reached
out to him.
Spencer shoots Sons of Anarchy,he shoots how to Get Away with
Murder, he shoots Veep.
So he works on these bigbudgeted, high level productions
all the time and I was like,hey, would you be interested in
shooting like a low budgetromcom that will shoot in

(32:55):
Champaign, illinois, in thewintertime when it's freezing?
And I didn't know that I couldget a Spencer Combs.
And he was like I've beenwaiting my whole career for
something like this.
So, honestly, it's havingpeople who are really good at
what they do, working with adirector who knows what she

(33:16):
wants, and then getting highcaliber actors like we can't
shortchange them, right.
So I was always looking forwhat's the most cinematic way
that we can tell this story withthe time and the tools that we
have.
So I'm a filmmaker first.
I love movies.
I came into this business onlywanted to be a movie director,

(33:39):
not even thinking aboutdirecting television at that
time, which is almost 30 yearsago.
Right Now, tv is reallyubiquitous, it's everywhere and
that is primarily like where Iget most of my work, you know.
So those skills aretransferable.
It's just you have tounderstand.
I always teach my students thatmovies is a director's medium,

(34:00):
television is a writer's medium.
You have to know where you are.
So when I'm directingtelevision, it's always in
service to the showrunner andtheir vision and with the team
that they've already set up.
So I have to plug into thatright.
When I do a movie, I create theworld, I build the team and
they have to plug into my vision.
So the approach is going to bedifferent and the the hopefully

(34:23):
the feeling is different too.
Um at at in terms of the endresult.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point.
Um, so I I'm trying to figureout can we, can we?
Can you answer this questionwithout giving anything away for
people who haven't seen themovie?
But, um, to you, what is thedeer, or who is the deer?

Speaker 2 (34:51):
Or one of the things that I learned in my
screenwriting classes is there'sthe idea of a visual metaphor
that encompasses the theme inthe storytelling.
And I'm a filmmaker of color,I'm a black female, I'm actually
half Korean as well, and so Ijust feel like a lot of black

(35:14):
movies in particular don't dealin the space of imagery, they
deal in the space of dialogue.
It's telling stories by talking, talking, talking, talking,
talking, you know, and justwe're just shooting people
talking, and it's not asinteresting to me and that's not
.
That's not what inspires me asa storyteller and what I wanted

(35:37):
to do, particularly with thistype of story and these types of
people.
I wanted to make sure that wealso highlighted the themes of
the storytelling in ways thatare visual, and so one idea was
to incorporate the symbolicobject that really spoke to

(36:05):
meaning on a different levelthat, if set up properly, the
audience would understand.
That's what that was is thedeer.
There's a metaphor, that of adeer, that represents, um, the
prime, the paula character andand her journey in the

(36:25):
storytelling, from where shestarts to where she ends, and we
know that every time we see thedeer, it will remind us of
Paula.
Yeah, so, because the deerreminds Paula of herself.
So you plant that properly,then the payoff is going to

(36:46):
happen later.
So I just want to play withthat, and that was that was why
I used the deer metaphor.

Speaker 3 (36:51):
And I, honestly, I really love that explanation.
I don't fully know thecriticism that you're referring
to, but I know your response toit, which is leaning more
heavily on visual imagery, and Ithink that that is such a
powerful I think reminder foranyone who's listening, who's

(37:13):
aspiring is this is first andforemost a visual medium and,
for all intents and purposes, weshould be able to turn the
volume off and watch thepictures and still know what's
happening, still feel somethingfrom the character, like the

(37:36):
subtlety of the performances andwhat you're showing us.
What you don't show us is justas important as what you show us
.
All that goes into what itmeans to make a film, and I love
that.
This is just kind of somethingthat you've added into this film
that you thought was necessary.

(37:56):
Was that always in the script?
Was that from the verybeginning?
That's interesting.
Yeah, I like that.
What was it like?
Your husband produced this filmwith you and I had the
privilege of meeting him andhe's a fantastic guy, man, just
an amazing guy, has had asuccessful career on his own as

(38:17):
a producer and an executive, andwhat was it like?
Is this the first film you guysmade together?
No, so you've made other filmstogether.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yes, this is maybe the third film that we produced
together.
What's?

Speaker 3 (38:32):
it like working with your husband on set every day.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
Honestly, it's a question that keeps coming up
over and over again and I'm alittle surprised by it, because
the assumption is that it's hardto work with your spouse,
potentially, but like he's aproducer of the highest level,
he's senior VP of production ata studio.

(38:56):
So it's like, dude, if you'regonna have a producer, have that
producer.
He just happens to be myhusband, so we have a very, um,
a cohesive working relationshipbecause we both do different
things and we complement eachother, kind of like in a
marriage, right?
Um?
So, honestly, he's easily thebest producer I've ever worked

(39:19):
with and like I wouldn't have itin any other way.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
um, I can imagine just the advantage of having
that second hand where, where hecan anticipate things that
before you even need him he can.
You know, any good producer isgoing to do that, but he's your
husband, so he's able to do thateven more on top of it and it
might be.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
It's all our money, so he's very on top of it.
It was, it was, it was greatand um, it's something that we
want to do more of, I think,beyond making movies.
Our greatest productions todate have been our four children
, and the cool thing is everyone of our kids worked on this

(40:00):
movie.
Oh, that's awesome A couple ofthem.
We pulled them out of school todo that because it's the family
business, and my oldest songraduated from NYU film school.
He's a filmmaker.
My third son is a freshman atUSC in the acting program, very
much involved in business.

(40:20):
So it's a family business andit was great that they could see
what we do and then they canalso help in the process of
making dreams come true fortheir parents.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
When did you realize you wanted to be a director?

Speaker 2 (40:33):
so I can tell you that, like as I was thinking
about my memoir, which I'm sonot into that, but I'm just
saying if I were it it was likegrowing up, interestingly, like
we all watched a lot of tv, butI wasn't interested in
television so much.
But I love the experience ofbeing in a theater and watching

(40:57):
this huge screen, essentiallyteaching me story and structure,
but also allowing me to have anexperience of empathy.
Now, television does that tooin its own way, but the way that
movies do it, I say moviemakingis about characters who

(41:23):
transform.
So we're going through thattransformation process as
characters are learning andevolving.
Then ultimately they change 180degrees from how they started.
It's almost like a walkingtestimony type experience and at
the end of the day, hallelujah,we've had a church experience.

(41:46):
Tv is about characters whoprocrastinate, so it's just
constantly going on and on andon and they never really change.
But watching cinema andexperiencing a transformation
process happening with acharacter and we get to
participate because it's anempathy-producing machine this

(42:09):
is what I'm saying it almostfeels like church and I feel
like it's like a service, and Ifeel like it's like a service
and it's an opportunity to seeourselves and characters in ways
that we have to deal with ourmessy vulnerabilities, in ways
that we see characters change ornot.

(42:32):
It reflects back to us our ownhumanity and the things and the
messiness that we need to tackleourselves.
I just, I'd love, I'd lovegoing on that journey and as a
younger person, I just I justconnected with the theater in
that way Now, movie, movie andcinema in that way, when I was a

(42:55):
freshman at the University ofNotre Dame and my husband was a
sophomore, he was like agovernment major and I was a
finance major.
Only because I'm like, well,that's what you studied to get a
job.
I didn't know.
Right, spike Lee came to mycampus freshman year to talk
about do the right thing andwhen I heard him talk I was like

(43:15):
people make movies for a living, like I didn't know that I grew
up in Detroit, michigan.
People shoot movies on thestreets.
I didn't know that.
So two things happened myfreshman year.
They shot the movie Rudy and Isigned up to be a PA.
I was technically a PA on Rudyand then Spike Lee.

(43:36):
It was a sign.
It was a sign and God came.
Oh God, I didn't mean that,sorry, strike back.
Spike Lee came to campus and Ichanged my major right then and
there, and so did Michael.
We both changed our major tofilm.
I did research on Spike Lee andlearned that he went to NYU

(43:58):
graduate film school, and sowhen I finished Notre Dame I
applied to NYU graduate filmschool.
I got in and Spike Lee was mydirecting teacher my last year.
No, way.
Yes, so it's full circle moment.
God ordained Honestly, because,first of all, you know how hard
it is to get into NYU graduatefilm school.
Dane, honestly, because, firstof all, you know how hard it is

(44:18):
to get into NYU graduate filmschool Very, very difficult.
I didn't know that.
I just declared my freshmanyear in college.
That's where I'm going becauseSpike Lee went there and then,
three or maybe four weeks ago,spike Lee invited me to screen
Albany Road for his NYU classthe same class that I took when
he taught me and Spike saw itand was in tears, kissed me on
the cheek and thanked me forbringing my movie.

(44:42):
Yes Cause he said he's like youdon't know this, but today is my
mom's birthday, so we screenedit on his mother's birthday and
he, when he was a freshman incollege, he lost his mother and
the movie just spoke to him in avery special way and it was, it

(45:03):
was, it was beautiful.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
Wow, that's a powerful story.
That's amazing.
You so Wow, that's really cool.
So when you went to NYU, whileyou were studying at NYU, had

(45:26):
you and Michael married or wereyou guys together yet While you
were at NYU?

Speaker 2 (45:28):
We met when we were 17.
And we met in DC, washington DC, oh you met before Notre Dame.
Yes, he was from Chicago, oh,DC.
Oh, you met before Notre Dame.
Yes, he was from Chicago, ohwow.
And he went to my senior promin high school and I probably
would have gone to theUniversity of Michigan.
But he heavily recruited me tolook at Notre Dame and I went to

(45:50):
Notre Dame.
I graduated in May of 94.
We got married in July of 94.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
Oh, wow, that's amazing.
And so you guys were both inNew York at the time, and then
when did you come out to?
When did you guys come out toLA and start working out here?

Speaker 2 (46:09):
I graduated from NYU in 1999.
And we came to LA right after Igraduated.
We were going to go for it andwe did.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
What was that?
Talk a little bit about that.
I'm curious.
You know like I'm not askingthe questions for you know you
don't have to grind any axes ifyou don't want to, but I think
it's important to have thisconversation after everything
that our business has gonethrough.
Here you are.
You're a woman of color, andthe business has not always been

(46:44):
kind to women or people ofcolor, and you came out here in
99.
What were?
Was that struggle real?
Is that something that you hadto do and what is some maybe
some things you've learnedthrough that process?

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Yeah.
So I had a lot of success witha short film that I made at NYU.
It played at Sundance, it wasnominated for a student Academy
award and it really opened up alot of doors.
It won the first ever HBO shortfilm competition, which led to
a development deal at HBO.
Just a lot of things thrown onmy lap before I was ready.

(47:24):
But we kind of got baptized byfire, like into the industry.
So we decided to make a featurefilm right in 1999.
And that's the film it's AllAbout you.
That starred Renee Goldsberry,and we just didn't think

(47:44):
anything of anything because wehad independent financiers and
our company.
We called it Faith Filmworks.
We were just walking out onfaith, we were just doing all
that.
But long story short, we made agreat movie that actually had a
lot of traction.
It's a cult classic now.
But we could not get Hollywooddistribution because at that

(48:05):
time they told us this movie'snot edgy enough for the Black
audience.
There's no audience for it.
And we were like, no, there'san audience of Black people who
go to church, particularly blackwomen, who will show up and
support movies like this.
And I was just ahead of my timebecause two years later Tyler

(48:26):
Perry came out with a movie thatwas geared towards black women
who go to church and blah blahblah and blah, blah blah.
So it was just it's dealingwith an industry that, to me is
has a certain mindset about howthings should be and then they
own everything.
They the, the, the production,the distribution, and now they

(48:49):
own the theaters.
So it's it's really troublingmonopoly that's in place.
So it's like if you're notsupported by them here, then you
can't get it distributed here,then who's going to see it?
Right?
And back then, like, our moviecame out on dvd.
It was the highest selling dvdin the history of the, of that

(49:11):
company's um record.
So, and that was mostly by wordof mouth.
So when a movie does well byword of mouth on DVD, that means
it would have done gangbustersin theaters.
So it was coming face to facewith an industry that just was
not, you know, and it was.

(49:32):
I was ahead of the industry inmy mind in terms of the content
that people wanted to see, andthis is the same thing that
happened fast forward, 25 yearslater with Albany Road.
I pitched it, nobody wanted tomake it, so we just made it on
our own and then we wrapped itaround for distribution and
people wanted it for streamingand I'm like, no, you guys, guys

(49:53):
are missing it.
Like this is, this is theholiday movie of the year.
Like, if you can't wrap yourmind around that, then, um,
we'll just have to take it outourselves.
And here we go, we're taking itout ourselves and it's a huge.
It's a faith-based movie.
We don't advertise it as that,but of course it's a faith movie
.
I've just done it in a way thatit doesn't clock you over the

(50:16):
head with the messaging or feelPollyannish, but it's highly
commercial and highlyentertaining.
It just happens to have a faithmessage as well.
So it has all the componentsthat really can work and for
what it's worth, with aprimarily black cast, we
screened it at roger eberfest,which was 700 white people in a

(50:37):
theater, uh, in champaign,illinois, we got two standing
ovations.
So it has it has majorcrossover appeal.
So here we are in the david andgoliath situation again, with an
industry that is, quite frankly, imploding because they don't
know what they're doing.
They spend a lot of money on onthe wrong things.

(50:59):
They spend too much money onmarketing and advertising and
not enough on actually creatinggood content and not enough
sharing revenue with the artistswho create the content.
So I feel like we're just in ain a time in this industry where
everything is in influx.
But, um, I look at it as if um,um again, if it's a David and

(51:24):
Goliath story, um, who won right?
If it's, if it's a story of umgreat upheaval in a worldly
system that negates the truth ofGod's love, at the end of the
day, god is on the throne andGod will have the final say.

(51:48):
So I don't look at this like,even if I say it's a David and
Goliath story, I'm on the sideof the right team.
I'm on the side of the rightteam.
We know how that ends right.
And that doesn't mean let me bevery clear, because this is
where I feel a lot of Christianpeople have muddied the waters

(52:09):
okay.
It doesn't mean that, becausewe are people of faith, that we
prostitute the gospel for filthylucre.
It does not mean that.
It does not mean that we throwtogether movies with a
faith-based message to getChristian audiences to show up
and support and then we make allthis money and do what with it

(52:33):
Preach.
Where is that money going?
It's going into the pockets ofpeople prostituting the gospel
for filthy lucre and thestorytelling is mediocre at best
.
What you're selling is you'reselling the idea that we're

(52:53):
evangelizing the world usingthis tool, this medium, as a
ministry tool, all the whilewhere you know you're just
lining your pockets.
And if you were just honestwith it then we can respect you.
You're just a corporation andyou're doing it for profit and
your goal is the highest ROIpossible.

(53:15):
Say that, but don't say God'sbehind this and God's behind you
, because the fruit of that isnot obvious.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
Yeah, yeah, that's such a good word.
I've always said hey, listen,if your Christian film is so
great, why don't you submit itfor festivals and let it compete
in the marketplace?
And what I often get told is oh, because the message gets
rejected.
And I would venture to say it'snot your message that's getting

(53:45):
rejected, it's the quality ofyour filmmaking that is
oftentimes getting.
But that's an easy kind ofcop-out for a lot of people in
that space.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
That's very interesting, because part of the
thing that I did is I wanted toput it in festivals, and
particularly festivals that hada high concentration of Black
women, and in most of thefestivals we've submitted in, we
have won Best Feature Film.

Speaker 3 (54:10):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Can we just talk just a littlebit about something that I just
have a question Kind of the ideaof underrepresented groups.
I recently there was a passingof an actor who I adored growing
up.
I've often, you know, here I am, I'm a white guy from the South

(54:33):
.
I was born and raised inMemphis, Tennessee.
Here I am.
I'm a white guy from the South.
I was born and raised in Memphis, Tennessee, and I grew up
watching TV way too much TV thanI should have and one of my
favorite shows growing up wasGood Times.
I loved that show and I havebeen told recently that that is

(54:53):
a black show, been told recentlythat that is a black show and I
I understand why it's calledthat, but all I know is that as
a as a white kid growing up inmemphis, um, I identified with
all the characters in that showand particularly I love the dad
who just the actor just passedaway.
It makes me think of this andhe reminded me a lot of my dad

(55:23):
and I.
Just I had so much connectionto those characters that when
people tell me it was a Blackshow, I go I don't know if it's,
you know, I don't know.
So here's my question to you Iknow that there are
underrepresented groups, I knowit's important, but, having said
that, you touched on like Iwouldn't call your film a black

(55:44):
film Like where have we not gonefar enough and where would you
say maybe we've gone too far?
What's your kind of take on?
Because I do think that filmlike you said earlier, film are
empathy machines and we need tobe introduced to worlds and
people's lives that we don'tknow, don't encounter on a

(56:07):
regular basis, things like that.
But I feel like some of thishas turned into marketing ploys
versus, like guys.
This is a human story and sowhat's your take on all that?

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Well, that's one of the things that I had hoped to
do with this movie, and I'vegotten the answers already in
the festivals that we'vescreened at, and we're getting
standing ovations from whitepeople and white people telling
me please stop calling this ablack movie, because this movie
spoke to me and moved me in sucha way that I haven't felt in a

(56:43):
long time that you know I'm.
You know that doesn't computewith me or for me, so, but for
black people?
Black people will say, oh mygosh, I've never seen a movie
that had images of us shown inthis way that really reflected
humanity so deeply that I'm sotouched and I'm like.

(57:08):
They're like this is brand newfor us, almost, and so see the
discrepancy of that.
So what that is speaking to isagain an industry that has
created a model for, foradvertising and marketing
purposes, that this is thisbecause it has black people in

(57:30):
it, right, as opposed to lookingat the story for um, the
inherent value of, of what thestorytelling is, and then coming
away with it saying this has isa universal story, that that
has a message for all ofhumanity, yeah, like no so
that's not what they see.

(57:50):
First, because they don't knowhow to sell something that
really is universal with justAsian people, yeah, just black
people, right.
So that's that's, that's alimitation of imagination for
marketers, right?
But let's, let's flip it andsay it like this this is a

(58:14):
faith-based movie.
Would white Christians see itas that?
I think the answer is yes.

Speaker 3 (58:22):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
How do we get it to white people?
And how do we say, whiteChristians, this is a movie for
you, and could white Christianslook at the poster and decide is
this a movie for you?
And could white Christians lookat the poster and decide is
this a movie for me?
So I think it's again amarketing thing, but I think

(58:47):
once we people of faith agreethat there is no Greek or Jew,
there is no male or female, ifwe really believe that and we
tell you, my gosh, god isreflected in the storytelling.
Don't miss it.
I would love to see thegroundswell of support from
white Christians, you know, butwhite Christians have been

(59:11):
talked to and marketed in such away, like I said, by the people
selling you know, prostitutingthe gospel for filthy lucre that
they only think a faith-basedfilm looks like this.
So then they becomeclosed-minded and now there's a
conundrum.
But here's the thing I feltinherently, that my job was to

(59:36):
do this movie.
And then, really, the endresult is not my business.
If God told me to do this,which I believe, so then the end
result is God's business and Ibelieve it will find its way
into the hearts of allChristians, if that is indeed
what they're seeking, like theysay.
You know, I think because ofthe way they've been marketed to

(59:57):
, in many ways they're.
They have been fine tuned to beagenda oriented as opposed to
being story oriented, andbecause if you're story oriented
then Christ can drop a parablein your spirit and speak to you,
no matter where it comes from.
Are you open to that?

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
Amen.
Yeah, I mean, you and I bothknow as storytellers there's
rules to genre and now,unfortunately, there's this
sub-genre marketing that thereare rules to and maybe less
rules and more boxes that haveto be checked.
And I think that people don'tmiss the fact that those boxes

(01:00:39):
are not inherently true.
They are boxes that people havesaid how do we maximize dollars
to reach it?
Minimizing certain things inthose kind of stories and
elevating other things that it'slike, wow, that is neither,
that is neither.

(01:00:59):
It's based, but I don't know ifit's faith.
I forgot to ask you when youbrought up Spike Lee by the way
who, by the way, I forgot to askyou when you brought up.

(01:01:24):
Spike Lee, by the way, who, bythe way, is arguably our most
celebrated black filmmaker anddoesn't make what you call black
film.
Do the Right Thing is is abouta particular subset of black
culture, but it's not likeMalcolm X.
Malcolm X, these are not films.
These are films that someonelike me, a white guy who grew up
in the South, can completelyimmerse myself in.
Mo' Better Blues.
I can completely immerse myselfin these stories because

(01:01:49):
they're human stories.
Anyway, I digress a little bit.
What would you say are maybeone or two key lessons you
learned from from Spike?
Maybe watching his films orhaving him talk to you, mentor
you a little bit, whether it'sin class or whatever.
What are some things you maybeyou learn from him?

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Well, it's the idea of being the, the general of the
storytelling.
So a lot of directing.
It's not a sexy job, you know,I think people think it is, but
it's really having a vision andreally the tools and the mindset

(01:02:30):
of a general, like leading anarmy and we are going to get
this done.
And so I just learned from himearly on is like it's the cult
of personality sometimes, Likehe just commands a certain type
of allegiance and wanting to dowhatever it is that he tells you

(01:02:56):
to do.
And I realized right away, likeif you cannot command an army,
this job is not for you.
Because what he did, startingout, especially on an indie
level, just required this kindof war-type mentality.
Like today I have enough toshoot these two scenes.

(01:03:19):
Tonight I'm getting on thephone to ask for more money.
Like it just requires a skillset that that forces you to come
outside of your own ego and anddecide like this is what I want
to get done by any meansnecessary, to quote Malcolm X.
So I just I learned that earlyon and I learned that in film

(01:03:43):
school, like the directors whoactually get things done are are
generals at heart, they're teamleaders at heart and they're
creatives.
But it's like if I can't managethe, the army, then I can't win
this war, because filmmaking iswar.
That's what I learned.
That's really I.

(01:04:03):
I learned that from spike rightoff and I was like either you
lead and have a, have thepotential to thrive, or you'll
get swallowed up in the processand you'll never come out of the
trenches.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
That's good.
What would you kind of to wrapthis up?
We have a lot of aspiringfilmmakers, a lot of aspiring
directors listening to thispodcast, podcast.
If you, uh, if you were talkingto young christine today, uh,
starting out again, um, what,what would be your advice to um

(01:04:43):
someone who says, uh, I justheard your podcast, I want to be
a director.
What do I do?
What's what's?
What's your advice?
Where should they start?
What should they be doing?
How should they start investinguh early on in their career?

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Well, it's, it's, it's okay.
Let me give.
Let's start with TV, becausefilmmaking is is so hard that I
don't even know how to begin toadvise people today.
And and it's it's hard if youdon't have one or two things, if
you don't have talent and thatgeneral mentality that I said

(01:05:17):
and financing, forget it.
If you don't have financing,you're not making movies.
You're just not, because thegoal of making movies is for
people to see it.
If you can't finance it andthen get it distributed, so
that's a whole nother podcast inand of itself.
But let's just say televisiondirecting, because there are
tons of TV shows out there andeveryone requires a director.

(01:05:39):
So I would say, minimally, whatyou need to start off with is
craft, like you know how to tella story using actors, camera,

(01:06:00):
camera and department heads anddepartment heads include
production designer, costumedesigner, head of hair and and
then having the language and theacumen to speak to a
cinematographer to discuss howare we going to cover scenes?
Okay, so that's that.
So that's an acumen that youdon't just wake up knowing you

(01:06:22):
actually have to study and haveexperience doing before
somebody's going to let you on aTV show with a budget of
between five to $7 dollars andhand over the reins to you and
say go, fulfill your dreams.
It doesn't it just it doesn'twork like that.
You know so.

(01:06:42):
And now, on top of having anacumen to talk to everybody
below the line, you also have tobe able to direct actors.
And I'm talking, you're talking.
You can have actors who juststarted out yesterday to 50 some
odd year veterans, and your jobis to communicate to all of
them, and rather quickly,because time is money to get

(01:07:06):
what you need, based on what thescript requires.
You also have to have anunderstanding of how scripts
work and how what writers arewriting, what their intent is
and how can you communicate thatto the actors and then to the
cinematographers.
And then you pull it alltogether in like a, a steaming

(01:07:27):
pot of gumbo, and it also has totaste good.
So it's it's not for the faintat heart, but at the same time
it is, is.
It is something that that youcan aspire to do and be
successful at it.
But the steps are many, theprocess is long and the other

(01:07:49):
thing I didn't add on top of itis okay.
So you're a great artist, youcan communicate well, you know
what you want.
But do you, can you?
Can you manage the politicallandmine that?
That is a tv set that theshowrunner hates, the, the
studio executive and the um yeah, studio executive is, is, is,

(01:08:13):
um is on his way out and he'sgiving notes?
It's a political landmine a lotof times.
So it's like having theexperience and the maturity to
manage that part and, honestly,like for me, I didn't get the
wisdom to manage that until Igot beat up brutally many times

(01:08:39):
and, like you get beat up somuch, you're like OK, I'm going
to learn this lesson and learnfrom it and do things
differently going forward.
So at this point, I'm sure Ihave discouraged a lot of people
from doing this.
I'm sure I have discouraged alot of people from doing this,
but, my goodness, if you stillwant to continue to do it,
knowing what I just told you,then then maybe this is what

(01:09:02):
you're supposed to do Do youthink?

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
do you think film school is still the the thing to
encourage people to do?
Or, given the fact that theaudience is so fractured and
that it's come to us now that,with the technology, with
iPhones and everything you knowYouTube, everything is would a
better pathway at this point be,if you're starting out, to just

(01:09:26):
go out and just start creatingstuff Like what's your kind of
take on that?

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
Yeah, so okay, I'm going to say this, knowing that
film school has a huge price tagon it, so it's not available
for everybody, ok.
But at the same time, an iPhoneis right, so I could just do
that.
That's not what film school isfor.
No.

(01:09:50):
Film school is where you go tohave opportunities to fail
Safely, that's it.
Film school is where you go tohave opportunities to fail
safely, that's it.
That's it.
You're just practicing anddiscovering what your voice is,

(01:10:14):
who you are as an artist andhaving opportunities to do
projects where you're beingincubated.
I cannot tell you how valuablethat experience is because,
because of film school and we Idid this I can apply that same
skill set on any set.
Knowing I've been through it, Iknow how to work with a crew, I
know how to do this in acertain time frame, I know that
the hair department is two hoursbehind so I have to figure out

(01:10:34):
how to switch gears.
So I've had practice doing that.
Now you can do that on your own, short or have you.
But film school, again, is anincubator for a time, a few
years, that you spend safely sothat you can try things out and
fail and or succeed.
But it's not the end, all thebe all, but I highly recommend

(01:10:57):
it because why jump into thisindustry?
I'm like you have the rest ofyour life to work.
My son did that.
He was a freshman at NYU filmschool.
He's like mom, I know all this.
I don't need you to spend moneyfor me to go to film school to
learn this.
And I'm like well, I'm notsending you to film school or
college to learn how to makefilms.
I could teach you that myself.

(01:11:18):
I'm sending you there to learnabout who you are in the context
of interacting with otherpeople and other experiences.
So what you're doing is you'rehoning your character.
You're discovering what you'remade of.
You're understanding where youneed to grow.

(01:11:39):
You're understanding like, wow,I developed in this way as a
human and like this is what itfeels like when I put those
skills to work.
That's what that's about.
And so any especially youngperson, when you have an
opportunity to go to college, tostudy abroad, to try some
things before jumping into theworkforce because you have the

(01:12:01):
rest of your life to work, it'snot that sexy people.
Use that opportunity to honewho you are as a person, develop
your spiritual tools, communewith God, you know, go hiking
and explore other countries.
If you can, then jump into this, because it's a hamster wheel

(01:12:28):
sometimes that's going to behard to jump off.
So there's no rush.
There's no rush to be the nextgreat, whatever OK.
But that time of youth it'sfleeting and it's a gift
Discover who you are.
Fail at some things.
Ok, you want to fail early.

(01:12:49):
You don't want to get on thebig stage and fail.
But even if you did, you'regoing to learn something from
that.
But because you have failed,that's not going to be
devastating to you.
You're going to learn from thatand grow.
So that's, that's film school.
That's the value of film schooland I highly recommend it.
If you can get it or just go tocollege, that's that can be

(01:13:13):
your film school.

Speaker 3 (01:13:14):
Okay, so yeah, do it if you can, and it doesn't hurt
if Spike Lee is your professor.
Didn't hurt, christine, thishas been an absolute joy.
I love talking to you.
I think so much of what you sayresonates with me and I think
it's going to resonate with theaudience and we're very proud of

(01:13:37):
you and you're an accomplishedfilmmaker.
You've done a lot and I thinkpeople are going to really enjoy
your latest film.
So just a reminder Albany Roadin theaters November 15th and
I'll make sure everyone gets allthe information on this, on the

(01:13:57):
uh, on the podcast too, theycan look up where to buy tickets
and all that kind of stuff sothank you.
Thank you so much.
Oh, we always like to close ourpodcast by praying for our
guests.
Would you allow me to do that?
Yes, thank you, heavenly father.
Just uh you.
Thank you for Christine, thankyou for just who she is, how you

(01:14:18):
have uniquely created her to bea storyteller, to be a
filmmaker, to be a director, awriter and director.
Thank you for birthing storiesin her and giving her the skills
and the tenacity and theperseverance to tell these
stories.
God, we pray that you wouldjust continue to develop in her

(01:14:46):
the woman that you want her tobe the mother, the wife, the
friend, the director, the writer.
God, I pray you would bless herendeavors.
I pray you would bless herendeavors.
I pray you would bless herfamily, bless her work, bless
this project, and we just thankyou for the time spent together

(01:15:06):
today and we love you, god.
We pray this in Jesus' name andyour promises we stand.

Speaker 1 (01:15:11):
Amen.
Thank you for listening to theAct One podcast, celebrating
over 20 years as the premiertraining program for Christians
in Hollywood.
Act One is a Christiancommunity of entertainment
industry professionals who trainand equip storytellers to
create works of truth, goodnessand beauty.
The Act One program is adivision of Master Media
International.
To financially support themission of Act One or to learn

(01:15:35):
more about our programs, visitus online at actoneprogramcom,
and to learn more about the workof Master Media, go to
mastermediacom.
Thank you, bye.