Writer/Producer John Glenn

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Glenn (00:02):
To your second question, when you rewrite
something, the guiding light,the DNA of it, it has to be has
to have two things.
An incredibly strong theme thatyou understand.
Like you know, and even putanother way, it's like, why are
you writing it?
Like, why does it matter?
I mean, if you could because ifit doesn't matter to you, like
if you don't think it cansomehow change the world or

(00:22):
expose a percentage of theaudience to ideas that you think
are important or beliefs thatyou think are important, you're
never gonna be able to rewriteit without ruining it.
And then it has to have aprimary character that you
completely understand and thatyou're in love with.
Because that's the person youprotect.
You don't protect yourself oreven necessarily the project,

(00:42):
you protect the protagonist.

James Duke (00:54):
You are listening to the Act One podcast.
I'm your host, James Duke.
Thanks for tuning in.
If you like what you hear,please subscribe to our podcast
and leave us a good review.
My guest today is writer,producer, director John Glenn.
John is a screenwriter,producer, director, and
showrunner with over 25 years ofexperience creating film and
television at the highest level.

(01:15):
He launched his career in 1999when he sold his spec screenplay
Red World to Jerry Bruckheimerand Walt Disney Pictures.
Since then, Glenn has written,sold, and produced original
films and series for every majorstudio and network in
Hollywood.
And when I say everyone, Iliterally mean every single one
of them.
His current series, Robin Hood,uh for Lionsgate and MGM Plus,

(01:39):
starring Sean Bean and ConnieNielsen, premiered November 2nd
of 2025 and is currentlystreaming.
So be sure to check it out.
Now, this is actually a specialepisode of the podcast because
this is sort of a sneak peek atour Act One producing and
entertainment executive program.
This particular conversationwith John is actually from uh

(02:02):
our class in November when hespoke to our students on his new
show, Robinhood, that we usedas a case study.
So please enjoy this bonusepisode of the podcast.
Why don't we start with thebeginning of your career?
When did you decide you wantedto become a writer and come out

(02:25):
here in Hollywood and startmaking stuff?

John Glenn (02:29):
Oh man, I think I always knew I would be in the
arts somehow from the time I wasyoung.
And I was always drawing andand writing my own comic books
and you know that sort of thing.
And I was always into music andyou know, films, television,
you know, probably very similarto, you know, most of you know,

(02:51):
you all, everyone on the call onthe Zoom.
I'm from I'm from Alabama, so Iwas, you know, pretty far away
from any, you know, connectionsor any really even an
understanding of of Hollywood oryou know what it was about.
And I came out here when I was18 to be an actor because I
thought, well, that, you know,it just made the most sense to

(03:11):
me.
And you know, because I likedactors and it looked like it
would be a fun way to make aliving.
You know, so so I I startedacting and you know, and I did
that, you know, and would dosort of the I guess every all
the sort of stuff younger actorswould do, you know, write, you
know, and you know, we'd throwthese plays at coffee houses and

(03:32):
that sort of thing.
And you know, I even when Icame out here though, I'm I I'm
not really sure that Iunderstood entirely that you,
you know, you can make a prettygood living writing.
I just you know, it just didn'tcross my mind.
And I just wasn't I wasn'tsuper versed on the film
industry or how it how itworked, you know.
And at a certain point I I I Ijust realized I wasn't a very

(03:56):
good actor, you know, likepretty quickly.
I was like, yeah, I don't knowif I'm actually good at this,
but that's really you know, butI would start to rewrite my
friends' plays and I would, youknow, start to write different
plays, and and then I I justsort of I just liked writing.
I mean, I really liked thatprocess and I liked the I liked

(04:18):
the solo nature of it, eventhough I like to write with
people.
I I I still write with otherpeople, friends and and Kenny
and Jacob, you know, who wereyou know very well.
And then, you know, and then Idon't know, I just I was playing
music too and in a band, andbut that lifestyle wasn't quite,
I could just sort of see evenin success where that would
probably lead, you know,probably not to a lifestyle

(04:42):
conducive for family, and that'syou know, the other things that
I wanted in life.
And uh I don't I decided I justdecided to write a script one
day, and then I just sat downand wrote a script.

James Duke (04:51):
And uh did you literally uh not the only
scripts you had seen had been asan actor going out for
auditions, basically?

John Glenn (04:59):
Yeah, the only scripts I'd ever seen were
pieces of scripts for auditionsor that sort of thing.
But then I started to read, Iread a bunch of plays.
I was very into playwriting andthat sort of thing.
And so I, you know, I you know,I had I sort of had a language,
you know, for it, I guess.
It comes down to it.
And but then this was like, youknow, this was in the like, I
don't know, 1995-ish orsomething, 94 when I came out

(05:22):
here, 93 actually, when I cameout here, but it was like the
mid-90s, you know, and there wasa huge, you know, kind of
feature spec market, you know,and you read these stories, it's
like, oh, this guy sells ascript for a million dollars,
and this gal sells a script fora million dollars.
And and but I wasn't reallyinto Hollywood movies, you know,
I was into like the Hollywoodtype of films that I were, I was

(05:43):
into, you know, kind of theindie stuff, like John Sayles.
I loved John Sayles, I stilllove John Sayles.
He's you know, probably thegreatest influence on me in
terms of you know Hollywood.
And so I thought, oh, you know,I could do that, I could
direct, I can write my ownmovies and go, you know, get a
million dollars.
And and so I did that, and Ihad, you know, a degree of

(06:04):
success.
I mean, people, my writingstarted to get out there, and
people were responding to it,and I had really kind of
interesting people attaching tothese small movies, but you
know, I was making like $20,000for a script, which was awesome,
you know.
I'm like, oh wow, I just gotpaid $20,000 for something I
just did, you know, between myyou know, waiting job, you know.
And but I I just wasn't makinga, you know, I just I just knew

(06:31):
it'd be tough to make a livingdoing that.
So I was not into likeHollywood summer movies and all
that sort of thing.
It was kind of the the heightof Bruckheimer and you know all
that sort of thing.
And but I decided to sit downand write a like a my version of
a huge Hollywood blockbustermovie, and so I went to see
every single movie that year.
I think this was like '97or '96, somewhere in there.

(06:53):
And I just wrote my version oflike a giant Hollywood action
film.
And it's so and it sold.
Like it would be it sold inlike a total bidding war, which
is just completely crazy becauseit was really in my mind, I was
designing my sellout.
Like, I'm gonna sell outbecause I need you know, I was
engaged at the time, and youknow it was a cash grab.

(07:15):
It was a cash grab.
Literally, I mean it literallydesigned, you know, but then so
suddenly I was just like, oh,he's this big movie high concept
person, and then I just didthat for like 10 years, and I
had no interest in television atall.
I had zero interest intelevision, I had no, you know,
no desire to really be in it,and I didn't really know much

(07:36):
about it.
But uh a film executive thatI'd written a couple of movies
for ended up going to run atelevision a network and and uh
talked me into writing a pilot.
And I kind of did it as afavor.
I mean, I really did.
I was like, he really wanted tocrack this particular world,
and and I this was like, I don'tknow, this is like a in

(07:58):
September, late September of Idon't remember what year.
And uh and so I went and Iwrote this thing, I was done
with it in two months, and thentwo weeks later, they're like,
oh, we're gonna make it.
And then two weeks later, I wasin New York prepping it, and
you know, it was so fast, it wasso different than my film
experience.

(08:18):
And I thought, wow, this ispretty cool.
And then I got there and Irealized that everyone wanted to
actually hear what I had tosay.
You know what I mean?
That I realized I was the bosswhen it came right down to it.
You know, and I'm not a controlfreak, but there is a there's a
big difference between writingbeing a writer in a movie and
right and creating a show, youknow.

James Duke (08:38):
Yeah, yeah, because you would you you would they
didn't even they didn't probablydidn't even want you on set as
the writer of your of yourfilms, yeah.

John Glenn (08:44):
No, they would always go to someone else, you
know.
And I've done that too, whereyou get brought into a movie and
you do production you writes onset, but it you're you're it's
often you're that often thatthat that job or piece of it
often doesn't go to the originalwriter because you know you're
probably and it's probably smartbecause you're just burnt by
that point, you know.
You know, at a certain point,you're not I for me anyway, I'm

(09:06):
not sure how to make anythingbetter at a certain point.
You know, because everythingbecomes a lateral move or a
negative move, and you sort offeel, okay, this is the time to
give it to another writer andmove move on.
So it was a strange, I didn't,you know, it just I don't know.
I've always been, I think, goodat just letting things come to
me.
Just kind of I just do the workand then whatever happens

(09:27):
happens.
And and uh I think for I thinkfor me that was very helpful
because I wasn't attached to anyparticular result.
I just wanted to write.
What show was that again?
Did it end up going from pilotor was you just shoot the play?
It was a show called Drift, andand uh you know, we cast Ches
Palmeteri and Marsha Gay Hardenand like Vanessa Farlito and
Jason Omara and like all thesereally really interesting,

(09:51):
really good actors.
And again, it's like I was sortof the center of that, you
know, and and and dealing withthe actors in a way that a that
a that a film director, youknow, deals with with with that,
you know, and then then thenhiring the director, you know,
which was nice because then thedirector is there to serve, you

(10:11):
know, your vision, notnecessarily his or her vision.
So yeah, I mean it was just itthat's kind of I think I was
trying a bunch of differentthings because I was always
creative, and then just havingat least enough self-reflection
to understand what I'm good atand what I'm not good at, and to
lean into what I'm good at.

James Duke (10:30):
So you uh so about a 10-year period, you said you
were you became like the highconcept guy, so you were going
in, and then can you justexplain a little bit that how
that world was?
I don't think a lot of peopleunderstand that just because
something doesn't ever go intoproduction, like there's there's
tons of things that are gettingbought and sold, and people are

(10:52):
getting paid.
Can you explain just thedevelopment process as a writer?
Because I don't think peoplefully understand how it works.

John Glenn (10:59):
Well, I think there's there's yeah, I think
this this still exists.
There's sort of two, there'stwo branches, right?
There's writers that writeoriginal material, pretty
exclusively.
I'm one of those.
And then there's OWAs, whichare open writing assignments for
projects that are IP based ortitles that a studio owns.
I was always, I found the OWAkind of path challenging, you

(11:24):
know, because it it becomesalmost like a bake-off where I
don't know, one or others willhave Clash of the Titans and
they want a Clash of the Titansmovie.
And uh, you know, it's like yougo in, you pitch, you pitch
your take, but they're hearingtakes from like 30 or 40 other
writers.
So it's a very, it's that's athat's a that's a difficult
path.
You know, it's just it's justit's a lot of labor.

(11:46):
By the time you come up with apitch and do all of that, I
could have just written, writtenit.
I mean, I actually did writethe first draft of Clash of the
Titans for Warner Brothers, youknow, and they wanted to remake
that.
And uh, but I was justpassionate about that that
material.
That was like a movie from mychildhood that I was just super
into and Perseus and all ofthis, and there is also a huge
spiritual component to thatstory telling that I'm drawn to.

(12:10):
So you could I could do reallyinteresting things thematically,
you know, with it and bury kindof some of the stuff that I'm
drawn to as a writer, you know.

James Duke (12:21):
Wait, John, wait John.
I don't mean to interrupt you,but I just want to are so are
you telling me you're the onewho released the kraken?

John Glenn (12:29):
I didn't have the kraken in my first draft though,
and they were very upset bythat.
I hated they're like, you haveto put the kraken in, and I'm
just like, okay.
So I put the kraken.
I put the kraken in, you know.
Here's your kraken, you know,but you know, I've added your
kraken.

James Duke (12:46):
I've released the kraken for you, all right?

John Glenn (12:48):
Release the kraken.
But uh, but that but you know,but that was a that was a really
fun, that was a really, reallyfun project, and very supportive
executives and a lot of funpeople, a lot of really cool
people involved that I'm stillfriends with, you know, to this
day.
But uh, I've always been drawnto I think the better path is
frankly, it's it's sometimestougher, but I think in the end

(13:11):
it's more rewarding.
And and I think you I think youhave a greater chance of
success is original material.
Like I still almost exclusivelydo original material and infill
and I still I still do movies,you know, but it's always
original stuff.
I mean, and you know, I'vewritten three feature specs in
between showrunning and stuff inthe past five years, and I've
sold all those, you know, soit's just and people say it's

(13:33):
hard it's more difficult if it'soriginal material, and and
there's there's truth to that.
But if it's if it's good and ithas and it's and if it's
saleable, you know, if they cansee an audience for it, I think
it accelerates your career, youknow.

James Duke (13:50):
Your buddies, Jake and Kenny, told me
once a great concept that'spoorly written is way more
attractive in Hollywood than aso-so concept that's well
executed.
Would you would you agree withthat?

John Glenn (14:07):
Yeah, with I mean without a doubt, because I think
that there's a differencebetween a script and a movie.
They're I know I know somevery, very, very, very good
writers, but they struggle withconcept, like they struggle with
with understanding what a movieactually is, you know, and so
it trips them up often.
And it's kind of how I startedworking with a lot of other

(14:28):
writers was that I have a I I'malways I generate a lot of
ideas, self-generate, and Idon't have time to write them
all.
So I started kind of formingthem out to other writers that I
knew were good writers, and Icould help them with the
concept, the movie piece of itall.
And uh you know, but it is,yeah.
I mean, it's like a really I'veread a ton of really good, you
know, many, many, many very,very, very well written scripts
that aren't movies, and youknow, declined to become

(14:50):
involved with them because Ijust know where that goes, which
is it just doesn't go anywhere.
It's just a great piece ofwriting, and that'll open doors
for you for sure, but it's justa project that's not, and I've
written, by the way, I'vewritten those too.
Not that well written hasgotten made, you know.

James Duke (15:06):
Well, you're yeah, and like you said, you spent all
those years as kind of the highconcept guy.
Um, in fact, I you know, Imean, you wrote the screenplay
for Eagle Eye, which was apretty big high concept, you
know, big budget film.
And was that like at the end ofthat run there?
You you or is that a is that ascript you'd you had tinkered
with for a while?

John Glenn (15:27):
No, it was this it that movie got made at the same
time the first pilot I wrote gotmade.
So that year, Eagle Eye gotgreenled, and then this pilot I
wrote was green led at ABC.
And uh and they're but and theywere both kind of high concept.
I mean, they're both very highconcept ideas, and that Eagle
Eye was really Spielberg's kindof notion.
He always wanted to do a northby northwest type of a film

(15:50):
where but where the heroes werebeing framed by technology, and
it wasn't really, and there weresome other drafts.
I wasn't the first writer onthat.
I just I was writing a moviefor DreamWorks at the time, and
they just asked me if I would,you know, sit out and they asked
me if I'd sit down withSpielberg, and I'm like, yeah,
well, duh.
For sure.
c

(16:12):
Let me check my calendar. Yes.
And uh yeah, I cleared anything I had going
that day pretty quickly.
And I'm you know, he was justtalking and uh about it, but the
he could never find the draftsthat the he and I think there
are three or four other draftsthat existed from three or four
other writers.
One was Dan McDermott, whoended up sharing credit on it
because he was the first writer,and he's the president of AMC

(16:34):
now.
Well television side.
And Dan's a really nice, avery, very nice guy.
And uh, but the the the problemwith those other drafts, I
never read them until after themovie got made.
Then I went back and read themfor fun, but they didn't have a
high concept core, you know,they didn't have a real, it was
just sort of kind of every whatwas happening in the movie and

(16:55):
why it was happening wasarbitrary.
It wasn't connected to the DNAof the, you know, there was no
DNA there within the conceptthat justified, you know, the
movement of the story.
I had the I had the benefit ofthis, was this was post-9-11
when DHS was uh formed, youknow, it's like, oh, let's have

(17:15):
this other, there's anothergigantic federal bureaucracy and
you know, crime.
So there is that was my wayinto it is using this sort of
the Patriated Act and this sortof federal apparatus of of
really unchecked power, youknow.
And so there's a kind of a highconcept core based in the real
world that made it feel groundedand believable.

James Duke (17:36):
That's good.
I want to get into Robin Hood,but before I do, we have a
couple of questions here fromour students.
So Shannon, let's start withyou.

Shannon (17:46):
Hi, John.
Thank you so much for beinghere on a Saturday.
So grateful to have you andcongratulations on your on your
recent launch.
I have two questions, if that'sokay.
One is I write originalcontent, and we had had a guest,
I think a couple of weeks ago,who said that is the hardest
thing to be doing.
So I wanted to get your take onthat.
And two, when you are in therevision process, specifically

(18:07):
when you had a draft that wasreally resonating, doing really
well, and you rewrote to asecond draft, and you get to
that second draft, and you'relike, oh, I lost something a
little bit, and you want tohybridize those two really
strong drafts.
I was wondering if you have aprocess for that or what your
thoughts are within that processto not get lost in terms of the

(18:28):
heart of why you wrote thatstory.

John Glenn (18:31):
Yeah, I mean, I think that so I think that I
think that there's truth towhat, you know, this previous
guest, you know, said that itmay be it may be harder.
And I think that it is harder,but it's harder to a degree,
right?
I mean, it's it's harder tosell original material, but the
process of of of getting to acompleted script and and I think

(18:54):
writing something that'sdifferent and stands out and
then and that sort of marks youas a writer, like a voice that
people want to track, I thinkit's much easier in that regard
because IP is they own it,right?
I mean, they own all the IP.
And so there's all these sortof parameters about if they, I
don't know, they want to remakeRambo.
I don't even, I'm just pickingRambo, right?

(19:16):
There's all these sorts of kindof preconceived notions that
that the studio is bringing intothat process that you're
already going to become beholdento to a degree, versus I want
to write my own Rambo.
I you know, I have this actionfilm that's literally like kind
of like an urban Rambo atLionsgate and went outside
Amazon, but it but it's sort ofan urban Rambo, you know.

(19:40):
It's like and it's completelyoriginal material.
But you know, when I went outwith that like two and a half
years ago, there were multiplebidders that that wanted it
because it was fresh, it wasdifferent, it was you know, it
was something that sort of stoodon its stood on its own, and
you could see a way to make thatmovie and market that movie.
And you know, and it and soparticularly because it was

(20:03):
written at a certain budget, itwas written in such a way that
it would it it could only costit could cost $100 million, but
it could also cost $25 million.
So I think that that's like asa franchise starter and it's
action, that's helpful.
So I don't know.
I mean, I think that for Ithink for you know younger
writers or whatever you want tocall it, I think original

(20:25):
material is a much better way togo.
I just think you have to writewith them the reality of the
business that we're in, youknow, which is Hollywood.
I mean, you know, so it's youcould you can go write these
tiny kind of tiny small filmsand they may get made.
They probably won't get made,but even if they do, you they're
probably no one's gonnaprobably see them.

(20:45):
You know, and then those filmsare 100% reliant upon a
director.
I mean, most films are, right?
I mean, you have to have agreat director, but it's just I
don't know.
I I'm an ad I'm a huge advocateof original material, and there
is now a growing need for itand thirst for it because
they're they're running out ofIP.
You know, I think with like Ithink when you re you know to
your second question, when yourewrite something, the guiding

(21:09):
light, it's why what you writehas to within the DNA of it, it
has to be, in my opinion, has tohave two things, an incredibly
strong theme that youunderstand, like you know, and
even put another way, it's like,why are you writing it?
Like, why does it matter?
I mean, if you could because ifit doesn't matter to you, like

(21:29):
if you don't think it cansomehow change the world or you
know, expose a percentage of theaudience to ideas that you
think are important or beliefsthat you think are important,
you know, then then you're nevergonna be able to rewrite it
without ruining it.
And then it has to have aprimary character that you

(21:49):
completely understand and thatyou're in love with, because
that's the person you protect.
You don't protect yourself oreven necessarily the project,
you protect the protagonistbecause his or her journey is is
the thing coupled with themethat that makes it important to
you, you know, A, but B thatmakes it important to anyone

(22:11):
else who comes across it,whether it's just whether it's
just a script or or it's a filmor whatever.
It has to have it has to meansomething.
And you have to understand whatit means.
And then you have to protectthat.
I mean, that's the only wayactually to go through a rewrite
process and not, you know,ultimately screw it up.

Shannon (22:29):
Wow, thank you.
Wow.

James Duke (22:33):
Deanne, you got a quick question?

Deanne (22:36):
Hello, I really enjoyed watching Robin Hood.
Thank you for being here withus.
I've learned so much alreadyfrom you.
And I keep thinking in my mind,two years ago I found something
original.
I it's not original, it's abook, but it is original because
not often is the author's deaf.

(22:59):
Not often we see a producerwho's deaf.
I mean, I I don't want to makethis awkward, but I do believe
that deaf people and hearingpeople work together.
It's not like I'm thinking alldeaf, this, deaf, that.
But it's I have a vision ofworking with a crew, CAF, deaf

(23:21):
and hearing with this book.
And it's original and it's aperiod of piece.
And with my producer's friends,my talent manager, they keep
saying the phrase, it's a periodpiece, it's difficult.
Earlier, you said, you know,people say original materials
are difficult.

(23:41):
I don't want to take no for ananswer.
This story is close to myheart, and I want to make it
happen.
And now I'm seeing all theseperiod pieces playing on TV,
like Robin Hood or last night, amovie, Sarah's Oil, was just
out in theater yesterday.
I saw that.
That's a period piece.

(24:02):
I'm just curious about yourtake about doing period piece.
Why people keep telling me thatit's too difficult to do, it's
not realistic.

John Glenn (24:13):
Well, I think that it is difficult.
It's and it is more difficult,right?
I mean, there's so manychallenges to a period piece
that that you're immediatelyfaced with that you're not like
if you wanted to write a storyset, you know, in uh, I don't
know, Los Angeles, right?
I mean, it's like, and it's2025.
Then when you point the cameradown the street, it can just be

(24:34):
the street.
You know, it can just be whatexists.
You know, when you when youstep into period, you have to
completely create the world, youknow, from the jewelry to the
costumes to the furniture to thehair, the hair, you know, the
make, everything becomescompletely different and it
doesn't exist.
So you have to create it.
And then when you create it,you have to pay for it.

(24:56):
Right, right.
You know, so it becomes a wholeother layer.
But I I think I thinkeverything's difficult in life.
Do you know what I mean?
So I I I'm with I'm the sametype of person that you are, and
that I mean, you can't go intoHollywood and take no for an
answer.
I mean, that's just like crazy.
So you can't take no for ananswer just no matter what, but

(25:19):
everything's difficult in life.
I mean, life can be verydifficult.
It's it's we all know thatthere are so many challenges
that we all face, you know, inin our personal lives, you know,
whatever, raising children andrelationships, with friendships,
with you know, every life isnot designed to be easy.
The world we live in is not,you know, it's it's not set up

(25:42):
that way.
So I don't, I because somethingis difficult, it doesn't
matter.
It's the passion that matters.
Like if you're passionate aboutit and you think it's great and
you know what's great, likesomeone else will, like other
people will.
And then that was a challengewe faced on you know, Robinhood
is every everyone is alwaysthat's the first reaction.
It's just like people don'twant to get into it because they

(26:04):
just know there's a whole otherlayer you have to figure out,
but I don't know, you just gofigure it out.

James Duke (26:10):
So that's a good segue into let's talk about
Robin Hood.
So the, you know, I I I've seenRobin Hood, I know Robin Hood,
and we've all we you know, itit'd be you'd be hard pressed to
find someone in the Westernhemisphere who didn't already
know the story of Robinhood.
So let's start withdevelopment.

(26:30):
How why Robinhood, what whatmade you decide to and by the
way, we've all watched thepilot, and I actually really
enjoyed it.
I I'm just curious where wheredid the where was the impetus of
let's go make a because youliterally just sat here and told
us about, you know, you makeall these original ideas, and
then now one of the most kind offamous IPs of all time is now a

(26:53):
brand new show that youco-created.
So I'm just curious, what wasthe development process like for
the show?

John Glenn (26:59):
Well, I mean, one of the one of the reasons for
Robin Hood was that it is thatwhat you just said is every
single everyone in the worldknows what I mean.
You can go to China and ask a17-year-old kid in China and an
80-year-old, you know, retiree,you know, what you know, in the
same city, they all know whatthey all know Robinhood.
Like around the globe, it's acompletely recognizable story

(27:21):
that for centuries has been toldand retold over and over again.
That was the that was a bigreason why we decided to engage
Robin Hood, was because it isfree IP.
It's like you're alreadystarting with a leg up.
Everyone knows what it is.
The other, the I mean, the thethe other reason is for me, I've
never felt that it's actuallybeen done right.

(27:42):
It always feels somewhat cheesyor kind of silly, you know.
It's kind of likeswashbuckling, you know, damsels
in distress type of type of avibe.
And I don't think that it hasever been done in a way that
feels really grounded and youknow, not necessarily
historically accurate, eventhough I think this is a the
most historically accurateversion that I've ever seen

(28:05):
anyway, but it feelshistorically believable, you
know, you know what I mean?
So it's that was a that was ahuge piece of it.
The other piece is I have acompany in in Belgrade, Serbia,
where we shot it.
So I have a company there, andI know and I just know I know
Serbia and I know the landscape.
I've worked in Serbia a coupleof times, and I know, and I knew

(28:26):
we could do Robin Hood there.
I mean, I knew we could make itlook exactly like you know,
whatever 12th century England.
And and and the other reasonwas I I knew we could do it
there for a price that is, youknow, you just it's impossible
to do anywhere else in theworld.
So, and I love the story.
Like I've always loved thisidea of of this kind of you

(28:48):
know, this this figure, youknow, righting wrongs and
fighting for the every everydayman and woman.
But it was Robin Hood was alsostrategic as well.
It was part creative.
I knew there could be like kindof a really more grounded, cool
Batman begins type version ofthat story with much more

(29:09):
interesting, you know, sort ofbrushstrokes on Marion and and
uh and bringing Eleanor ofAquitaine into it.
I thought was really could bereally cool and and then
ultimately seeing Robin Hood inplaces where you don't normally
see him, like in London and inWestminster Palace, and as the
series goes on, like in youknow, in the Crusades and in

(29:30):
Malta and all the in Rome, allthese sorts of different places.
But the other piece of it isthat there is a business, you
know, component to it that itfit my business model in Serbia.
You know, I mean, right, Imean, it just sort of I'm right
now out with another with ahorror project with Eli Roth,
who who I met years ago at thepremiere of Cabin Fever in

(29:52):
Toronto, where he premiered thatthat was his first film.
And we're doing Cabin Fever inBelgrade, Serbia, except the
cabin is now this kind of grandEuropean hotel.
And, you know, they get trappedin there and craziness ensues.
But, you know, that's a smallertitle, but that's a title.
You know, Eli and I are oldfriends working together, it's

(30:12):
fun to do.
But I can also do it as a partof my business there.
And I can deliver that show for80%, 75% less than it would
cost to produce here.
And that's a huge part of youknow, the business is you know,
cost efficiency is finallycoming into vogue.

James Duke (30:29):
Yeah, I mean, the production value that was one
first thing I wanted to say offthe bat is the production value
is great.
I I it it it looks great.
The world I'm I was fullyconvinced that I was in Sherwood
Forest, and I was reallyimpressed.
I it didn't seem like you had alot of visual effects, it
seemed like a lot of it waspractically built.

(30:49):
I'm sure you had some visualeffects, but I I I love hearing
the fact that you shot it, youknow, in Serbia.
The the when you were and thethe the pilot's fantastic.
I love the end to this story,like you said, the the whole
Batman agains.
I don't know if you're allowedto say how much you know you've
you've budgeted all theseepisodes for, but I I I'm

(31:10):
curious the balance between you,because usually we're talking
to producers or creativeexecutives, and I've got now in
front of me, I've got thewriter, director, producer.
I mean, you didn't direct thepilot, but I mean you've
directed it.
So you've got I've got I've gotsomeone who who who's wearing
multiple hats on one project.
What is that balance between Ireally want to see this on

(31:34):
screen, but I only have X amountof dollars?
What was that process like foryou?
Do you end up bringing in yourother creative partners to kind
of help help you make thosedecisions?
And and if so, maybe what was acouple of the decisions you had
to make with the pilot?

John Glenn (31:51):
Well, I mean, I you you you do, I do, but I I mean I
make all of those decisions,you know.
I mean, it's sort of I'm thesort of bottom line, and there
has to be a bottom line, and itcan't be by committee.
You know, at the end of theday, I mean, that's what a
showrunner is is a showrunner issomeone that the studios
ultimately that the studios andstreamers or networks trust with

(32:11):
their money.
I mean, that's that's thethat's the that is the ultimate,
that's you know, probably thedefining characteristic of that
job is we trust you withmillions and millions of
dollars.
And but the way to get there, Ithink if you're starting that
process on set, you're you'reyou're in trouble.

(32:32):
You know, so producing, actualproducing starts in the writer's
room.
For a television show, itstarts in the writer's room.
It's why I'm very particularabout writers in the room and
only will work with certainwriters, you know, and bring
them that closely into myprocess.
Kenyan Jacob being probably thethe two that I trust more than
anyone, because they understandme, they understand the process,

(32:53):
and they're actually goodproducers and they understand
that you're producing in theroom.
And when I'm putting a story,uh episode onto a board, I can
look at it and say that's tooexpensive.
Like I know for a fact that Ican't achieve that.
And so if I want to achievethat, if I think that there's
some, I don't know, inRobinhood, for example, if

(33:14):
there's some, there's some bigbattle or something that is
important to the story, then Ihave to, I have to either look
back or look forward and say,okay, well, what can I, you
know, minimize in this episodeor in this episode to actually
pay for it?
And so it it's it's a it's aliving process, you know, that's

(33:35):
always that's always happeningbecause when you get to the set,
it's like you know, when you'rethere, you really can't be
producing on set.
It's already produced or it'snot.
And you're gonna find you knowyou'll find out how good of a
producer you are very quickly,you know.
But there are there are thingswhere you have to, you just have
to switch, you know, you haveto you have to call audibles and

(33:58):
make make big adjustments, andyou, you know, and that is that
a lot of that just comes fromexperience or seeing the tidal
wave coming and being able tolook down the road and say, oh
man, I think we're literally$300,000 short on this thing
that we want to do.
So you do have to adjust.
I mean, one of the hugeadjustments is we were out a

(34:19):
lot, and the and you'll see ifyou if you all watch the the
show, the scope and the scale,like we're out in the middle of
nowhere shooting some of thesemajor scenes, and and the
production value is incredible,right?
It's absolutely fantastic.
But the problem is, is you'reout, right?
So it's like you got to get thetrucks and you got to get
people to drive the trucks, andthen you have to places to park

(34:41):
the trucks, and then you haveto, you know, load up all the
wardrobe, and you have tobasically unpack the studio and
take it with you or a good chunkof it, right?
And all that is reallyexpensive.
So the minute you're the minuteyou leave a studio, you're just
burning money.
I mean, you're just you, itjust is like you're lighting it
on fire and you feel it, youdefinitely feel that.

(35:02):
And probably the biggestadjustment and maybe the biggest
conflict I have with mypartner, who is a partner in my
company over there, JonathanEnglish, who directed the pilot,
and he and I uh create createdthe show together.
He's a he's an amazingdirector.
But you know, like mostdirectors, it's like they want
everything that they want.
And even if you're a director,but you're an EP on the show,

(35:25):
the director hat for puredirectors is always driving,
right?
It's always winning thearguments in the brain.
And so, you know, one of thebig issues that I saw coming was
we can't afford to be out inthe middle of nowhere this much
when there's this like fivemiles from the studio, there's
this kind of there's I don'tknow, 20 acres of farmland that

(35:47):
is not the same type of luxury,luxurious, beautiful, amazing,
scopy forest.
But the minute you're into acampfire scene with characters,
right, or just two peoplesitting on a rock talking about
something, you don't see any ofthat.
Like you don't, you know what Imean?
It's like you're in here, andit doesn't matter what's back
there because no one's trackingthat at all.

(36:08):
So, I mean, I literally cut 20days of being out and put them
all in this guy's farm.
You know, and we pay and thisguy was this, you know, farmer,
a really cool guy, and and wepaid him like I think you know,
5,000 bucks for the whole allthose 20 days, which is you know

(36:29):
cheap.
And he's like, Oh yeah, and hejust had a blast.
He loved it.
He loved coming out there andyou know, bringing his grandkids
and whatever, and we meet theactors, and wow, yeah, we
probably say, I don't know,$400,000 by doing that, which
doesn't sound like a lot ofmoney, but we're dealing with in
Serbia, I'm dealing withincrements of five and ten
thousand dollars.
Here I'm dealing with incrementincrements of 75, 150,

(36:53):
$300,000.
So the moves you make overthere, you have to make the
moves, but the impact issmaller, but it's still equally
impact, it still equally impactsyour production and your
budget.
So producing starts in itstarts in the room, and it's
like that's how I figure outvery quickly if for writers, if
that's the if they that's thekind of writer I want to work

(37:14):
with, in particular ontelevision, if they if they
can't understand that because itjust doesn't it doesn't work.

James Duke (37:22):
It's really smart, obviously based on a lot of
experience.
You I'm curious now aboutyou're you're you're developing
a show, and television is aboutcharacters and relationships,
right?
It's it's character driven, notplot driven, no necessarily.
And and so, you know, the RobinHood world.
We're familiar with obviouslyRobin Hood, Marion, Sheriff of

(37:46):
Nottingham.
You know, you we've got someiconic kind of characters that
fill out the world.
What was it like for you whenyou were sitting down?
What characters did you want?
What characters did you youmentioned Eleanor, you wanted to
either create some newcharacters or bring some
characters in?
What's the what's kind of yourphilosophy when you're
developing an idea that needs toarc over multiple episodes and

(38:10):
multiple seasons?
What's your approach tocreating characters for the
show?

John Glenn (38:16):
For me, it's like it is all about character at the
end of the day.
So, but so so is so are filmslike great films, right?
I mean, it's like all of thegreat movies we've seen.
The reason why we really lovethe movie is the care is the
lead, you know.
It's like now it may be a coolworld like The Matrix or
whatever, but it's like no one'stalking about the world really.
They're talking about Neo, youknow, so it's it's sort of the

(38:37):
same thing.
I think to understand, if youwant to, the challenge of
television is that it's longform storytelling.
You know, features are like,okay, I have I have 120 pages
and I'm done, you know, it'sjust sort of, and that's it.
And you just hit the end andfade out, whatever.
You know, it's never reallyquite done in television.
I mean, I know where the seriesends, and I know where Rob is

(39:01):
at the end of the series, but Ithink to write any uh strong
television characters that areiconic, whether it's like Tony
Soprano or it's like ThomasShelby, you know, you have to
understand the trauma the traumathere the the Fisher King wound

(39:22):
in them, you know, the thingthat is the wound, right?
Like what is the thing thathurt the most or open their eyes
to something that they can'tunsee?
Because if you understand that,that's what you have to find
first, is the like what's thetrauma there?
Like what is what is how didRobert of Loxley become Robin

(39:43):
Hood?
I mean, it's not it just wasn'tby accident, you know, just not
he just fell into you knowrobbing people and you know,
attacking the power structure ofhis day.
If he had to be driven there, Ithink like all great heroes, it
had to they have to be sort ofdriven there by pain.
And by something that they'retrying to reconcile within
themselves.
You know, with Rob, it was itit became the murder of his

(40:06):
father, the loss of hisancestral home in Loxley Manor,
and that home then ironicallybeing occupied by Huntington and
his daughter, you know, Marion,which is, you know, kind of an
interesting dynamic to play withas well.
I mean, here's an example forthe sheriff.
It's like one of my issues withRobin Hood is the sheriff is
always just this kind ofmindless obsession focused.

(40:29):
He just wants to hunt RobinHood.
He never catches Robin Hood.
He's riding in circles, but healways kind of just starts and
ends at the same place as a veryone-dimensional, uninteresting
character.
And I know for a fact you'renot going to get like a Sean
Bean or anyone, like in any likeA plus high, high caliber actor
with a character like that.

(40:49):
So it was super, superimportant with the sheriff.
He was probably the trickiestcharacter to actually crack
because I knew he had to bedifferent.
He had to be human.
We had to understand in himthat he was not psychopathic,
you know, that he didn't takepleasure in hurting people or
killing.
And the sort of two the tr thewound for him, the Fisher King

(41:10):
wound, was the Crusades.
So he's he's a man who comesfrom war.
He understands what war does,he understands the cost of war,
he understands the the horror,the bloodshed, like the the
women killed, the childrenkilled mindlessly for no reason.
And that's what he he bringsall of that in the moment that
we meet him, he brings all ofthat.

(41:31):
You know, Sean brought all ofthat immediately because he
understood, we sat down andtalked like for hours about the
sheriff's backstory.
And then the other sort of, Ithink, real piece of that was to
give him something that heneeded to protect and that he
loved more than anything in theworld, which was his daughter,

(41:52):
you know, and she's a bit of apromiscuous type, you know, kind
of running around doing allthe, you know, doing things that
she shouldn't be doing.
But it's like he loves her morethan he loves life itself.
Everything that he isultimately doing in the world of
our story is to protect hisdaughter.
And you'll see as the seasongoes on, that his real motive is

(42:15):
not to like go kill Robin Hood.
I mean, does he want does hewant to catch him?
Does he think Robin Hood needsto pay for his crime?
Sure.
But what he's really trying toprevent is war coming to
Nottingham because he's seenwhat war does and he knows what
it brings.
It brings horror.
And once it, and once itarrives on your shore, in your
home, in your in your life, inyour, you know, in your world,

(42:38):
you it's uncontrollable.
It's like a demon.
It's like you just you just leta demon out of the out of the
out of the out of the cage.
So I think you see as as theseries goes on, you see this
really, I think, really, to inmy opinion, and I say this very
honestly with humility, but Ithink it's the most interesting
version of the Sheriff ofNottingham that you've that
you've that you've seen becausehe's he's just very unique.

(43:02):
And that's and that's how wegot Sean.
I mean, Sean read the firstfive scripts, and you know, he
was in from that the word go,you know, and and we had
basically we had a choice, wehad choices, and I think it was
because that version no one'sever seen.

James Duke (43:15):
And it's a great to hear you describe this, right?
It's it's this great setup ofthese two strong characters that
have you know clear goals,clear objectives, and then the
series is the crossing of them,right?
So like that's where the andthen all the other kind of

(43:36):
characters pepper in, right?
But but if you don't have thesheriff of equal kind of weight
of Robin Hood, right, then it itloses, right?
So it's that's kind of the joy,right, of of writing these
episodes is when you can takethese two characters that are so
driven separately and and havethem clash, right?
Because they're both wantingdifferent things and they're

(43:57):
they're obstacles for eachother.

John Glenn (43:59):
Well, you and you know the clash is coming.
It's like you understand thatit's coming, and there's kind of
an it's kind of a cliche, butit's true.
That's why you know, mostcliches, you know, strangely
have truth, but you know, youryour protagonist is only going
to be as interesting as yourantagonist, you know, and he's
only going to be as formidableas your antagonist, and he's

(44:19):
only going to be as layered asyour antagonist.
So I think that's always beenan issue with Robin Hood, is
Sheriff has always beenone-dimensional, and then that
sort of the afterglow of that,you know, it it's it's thrown
onto Robin Hood, and he then hekind of becomes not that
interesting, you know.
He sort of becomes too clean,too pure, and whatever.

(44:40):
And I think with with with thisthe this version, you know, he
goes to a very dark place.
You know, he goes to play, hedoes things that are not that
are not that are sinful, youknow, that are wrong.
I mean, he does he he makesmistakes he makes real mistakes,
but his larger series arc toois it's a conversion story,
which you know we didn't pitchthis to the studio because it's
kind of stuff that makes him youknow get weird, but he starts

(45:02):
as a pagan, you know, he's justyou know, but he's going to
convert.
It's a conversion story.
That's his meta story, is hisis his conversion to
Christianity and and this sortof his eyes being open to a
better way of achieving ofachieving goals, you know.
Sometimes like you know, murderand war, it's like not always

(45:24):
the right way to go.
And he does end up murdering aman in season one.
And he and it's and he and hemurders him.
I mean, it's not it's not aself-defense thing, and it's a
and it's a it's a tremendoustransgression, you know, that
weighs on his soul, but that'salso the start of his of his of
his salvation.

James Duke (45:43):
It's the casting, you know, moving in kind of to
pre-production now.
The casting is great.
You talked a lot about SeanBean.
I it's really smart casting.
And and I'm you might havelooked at other people, but I'm
just telling you, I it's reallybecause we all everyone loves
Sean Bean, but everyone knowswho the sheriff of Donegan is.

(46:05):
And so that pilot episode, it'ssuch a great, I'm just telling
you, this is a really goodperformance by Sean because you
I you see him make the decisionsthat you kind of agree with
some of his decisions.
I do.
Like his rationalization, Ishould say, or not, he's not

(46:29):
twisting his, you know, he's nottwisting the mustache.
You see his thought process andthe rationalization, he's not
over the top.
It's like this is what a man inthat position would probably
do.
And he's not going to dig intoany more of the secrets.
He's gonna look at what's rightin front of him, and he's going

(46:50):
to execute his job.
And you we kind of we can'treally fault him yet because we
love Sean Bean.

John Glenn (46:59):
You kind of can't, you can't.
I mean, I think one of theimportant narrative character
ideas or constructs in thepilot, you see, you see him, you
see his view of Huntington, oryou you understand his view of
Huntington pretty quickly, whichis that he doesn't like this
guy.
That this guy is just a taker,that he that all that much of

(47:22):
what he has isn't deserved.
And then you also see him in afirst scene with Hugh Loxley,
Rob's father, you see empathy inhim.
You see that he sees in a man aman who's been wronged, and he
tries to do the best that he cando for a man that's wrong, not
a Saxon, you know, not a not aNorman, you know, it's a man,

(47:45):
it's another human being infront of him.
And he says, I'm gonna give youthis position as a royal forest
forester, you know, you'regonna have like a kind of a
cool, a cool, a good life, youknow, you're gonna have coin and
and and you know, and this isand it's something that the
sheriff of Nottingham, a personin his position at that time,
would not have to do at all.
He could just be like, get thehell out of here.
We could just throw him injail, but he doesn't do that.

(48:06):
He shows him respect anddeference.
And I remember we were shootingthat end scene when they drag
Hugh into after he's beenaccused of murdering the guy in
the cell, Spark Lurch.
Sean was kind of strugglingwith that moment.
And uh and he came over to meand we were talking, he said, I
don't, I don't, I don't know.
I'm sort of I'm not sure whatI'm what I'm supposed to be
doing.
I'm like, You're so you'rehurting.

(48:28):
I mean, you're supposed to behurting.
I go, This is this is veryhurtful and it's painful, and
you don't want to do what youknow that you're going to have
to do.
And so then he and he goes, Oh,God, okay, cheese, good.
And then and then you see thatperformance, which I think is
absolutely tremendous.
You see the disappointment inhim and the sadness in him when

(48:50):
Hugh screams, you know, not myking, it's your king.
You just see this, like it'spainful because now he knows
what he has to do.
You know, he he has to, youknow, he has to sort of hang
this guy, which he doesn't wantto do, you know, do it, you
know, and so you see an actorlike Sean, a character, a

(49:10):
character with that kind ofpower, an actor with that kind
of power, and you put them in ain a situation where they have
to do something they don't wantto do, then you can find you
often find magic in performance.

James Duke (49:21):
By the way, I couldn't find his name on IMDb,
but the actor who plays Rob'sfather, it was a shame.
You know, it's I'm out nospoiler, no spoilers if anyone
who hears this later doesn'tknow what happened, but
hopefully he can come back insome way.
He was brilliant.
I the Jack, Jack as Jack Pattonas Robin Hood, he's he's great.

(49:43):
I I I have to say, and um, Iwant to be careful with how I
say this, but with lots of showslike this that are going to
that's going to have action, I'mjust gonna say it.
Sometimes the the the care thethe individuals that are cast to
play these roles don't comeacross as how do I uh as as

(50:03):
masculine.
Masculine, yeah, yeah.
Like an actual man.
Yeah, yeah.
Because you admit the modernman that gets cast in something
sometimes doesn't quite hold theweight.
Jack seems great.
This is great casting.
Like he seems like, you know,guys, a guy that guys want to
be, and uh and a guy that girlswant to be with, right?
Like that kind of tell us alittle bit about looking for

(50:25):
him, finding your finding yourlead though.

John Glenn (50:27):
Well, that was the it's something that I've always
leaned into is I mean, I lovewomen, right?
I mean, I love the power ofwomen, the mystique of women,
the, you know, the thecapabilities of women.
I love men, you know.
I love I love real men, I lovemasculine men, I love strong men
that you know, that for that,you know, it's it's not it's not

(50:50):
so you know, everything's socut and dry, binary ones and
zeros, but there's a differencebetween men and women, and
that's okay.
You know, I mean that's like Idon't know when that became not
okay, but I I I cannot standlike the sort of beta qualities
in a lot of you know men.
And so that was the number onething.
I'm very vocal about this inHollywood, and you know, and but

(51:11):
it's changing.
Finally, it's changing back tonormal stuff where it's like,
oh, it's okay if we like womenthat are like women and men that
are like men, like there'sthat's okay.
But the number one quality waslike I felt like you had to have
a you had to have a lead thatwas masculine, like a guy that
you felt like has been punchedin the face before, you know,
that has and Jack is that guy.
Jack is one of the sweetest,kindest, you know, human beings

(51:33):
I've ever met.
I'm not even saying that.
He genuinely is, but he's analpha male.
I mean, he was a he was gonnago pro as an athlete.
I mean, he's a he's a toughdude, you know.
He's been around, you know.
He he was raised without afather.
His grandfather basicallyraised him.
He had a very tough childhood,very loving mother, you know,
but it sort of he had a tough goof it, and sports was his was

(51:56):
his escape.
And uh but before he was gonnago pro, he injured his knee,
blew his knee out, and it and itkind of ruined his career.
And he fell into acting.
He had no desire to be anactor, just fell yeah, fell into
it as a way to fill his time,you know, he didn't know what to
do with himself, you know.
And uh, but he had thatmasculine quality from the word

(52:18):
go, you know, like you could youcould sort of see yourself and
you know following a guy likethis, you know, or sort of
listening to a guy like this.
And I think with Lauren, whoplayed Marion, she to me
embodied so much just kind ofamazing femininity, you know,
and the power of that, the equalpower, you know, it's like
those things are very different,but they are equal.

(52:39):
I mean, you know, obviously wewere, in my opinion, it's like
we were designed, you know whatI mean?
It's like you know, men andwomen designed to come together
to create something better thanthan uh than we are as
individuals.
So that those those elementswere very, very important, I
mean, critically important.
Because if not, I mean, you'rejust like, I don't know, are

(52:59):
people really gonna follow thisguy?
It's like well, and she'swonderful.

James Duke (53:04):
And and what was really great to see in the pilot
is you see the chemistrybetween both of them right away,
and she's she's definitely hercharacter, she definitely is his
intellectual and emotionalequal.
But the world that they're in,they're both so far down the
road.
You're you you see thepotential for conflict and all

(53:26):
this, you know, good dramacoming forward.
But I I thought that the thethe the few scenes and they're
just together and they'retowards the end there.
I thought, I thought there wasgreat chemistry, and that's
gotta be fun to find that in thefirst episode, right?

John Glenn (53:40):
Yeah, incredible chemistry.
It's like we actually we flew,she's from Liverpool, so she's
she's only a few hours.
I don't know, whatever.
She's like a you know,45-minute plane right away from
London, and we flew Jack and herand a couple other people.
We always knew it.
I always knew it was gonna beJack and Warren.
Like for the moment I saw him,that was it.
It was not a conversation, butyou know, to sort of to cast two
unknowns is very difficult,incredibly difficult.

(54:03):
It takes a lot of frankly, likeskill and polish, you know, to
you know, you got to keep thepowder dry, you have to be very
smart, be very now.
I will say Lionsgate and MGMwere super supportive when it
came right down to it, but youknow, that was that was not
easy.
But the thing, you know, in achemistry read, we threw flew

(54:24):
them to London for a chemistryread.
And Jack read with three otherMarions and there were a couple
other Robs and blah blah and soyou know, and but the thing that
Lauren had, and I always knewit was gonna be Lauren because I
could see this in her.
She had this quality where shecan ground you, you know what I
mean?
She she could ground youbecause Jack is like live wire,
you know what I mean?

(54:44):
He's just like he he's likethis Australian, he's like part
crocodile dundee and part SteveIrwin or some shit.
Like he's just like a crazydude.
I mean, you know, but and sohe's just so like you feel like
he's going to explode.
I mean, half the time, which iswhere I think that magnetism, I
think the audience is and intesting and that sort of stuff,
too.
People are just so drawn tohim.

(55:05):
So, you know, men and women arejust so drawn to him.
But she like it just groundhim, and you see it the minute
they're next to each other, youknow, we're in a room like the
size of my office, and it's likethey're just right there, and
you're filming them doing thescene, and she just touch him,
and he just you know, she wouldjust saddle him in and catch his
eyes, and she would force himto hold her eyes, you know, and

(55:29):
that's and that speaks to herpower, like the the nature of
the power within this youngwoman.
She's incredible, and she'sshe's so she's so lovely too,
such a wonderful person.
And uh, you know, so then Ithen when they when the studio
network saw the chem read, waswhen it was like, okay, yeah,
we're gonna we're we're gonnatake the chance because before

(55:49):
it was like, you know, asactors, you guys would all know,
and there's a lot of peoplethat wanted it because Robinhood
is, you know, in particular thewith the British actors, you
know, they it's just likeeveryone's you know, everyone
wants to be Maid Marian andeveryone wants to be Robin Hood.
I mean, they grew up with it.
So yeah, so it was like theythat those two together, it's
like magic, and I think theirlove story as it goes, and

(56:11):
they're separated and in this, Imean, I'm no spoilers, but
they're separated in three thethe episode tomorrow.
They're separated and she goesto Westminster, sent there by
her father.
It's almost punishment, and youknow, they're not back together
for I think three threeepisodes, three or four
episodes, they don't see oneanother.
And that that by the way, thatwas a huge fight for the studio

(56:32):
too.
They're like, oh no, the robthey have to be together.
I'm like, no, they actuallydon't have to be together.
It's like that's kind of thewhole thing, it's gonna make the
audience want them to betogether, you know, and then
they can pine for one another,and you know, so yeah, but it's
just that finding that that thatenergy, that energetic quality
with skill, not it's not easy.

James Duke (56:55):
It's and it's gotta be fun to find really good
actors and be excited about, youknow, I get to you know you get
to write dialogue and you getto visualize scenes that with
these guys and and how well howgood they are.
Let me let's take a questionfrom Patrick.
I he's live from SherwoodForest, John.
I don't know if you can see himright off.

Patrick (57:13):
Derby in Sherwood Forest from the image I could
gallery I could find.
John, thanks for being heretoday.
I I love the pilot.
You mentioned a little bitabout the the Anglo-Saxon
religion and kind of Robin'sconversion to Christianity,
which is interesting because inthe pilot in episode two, I'm
not sure if I want that yet.
And I'm coming at this from aChristian filmmaker perspective.

(57:34):
But that element of it, the theforced conversion aspect of
Anglo-Saxons having to adoptthis new Norman religion was
just so interesting.
And and it really drew drew methrough those episodes.
I was, I was, I was veryexcited about it.
I was curious about how muchresearch goes into that, going

(57:55):
back to you know, Anglo-Saxonreligion, the Norman conquest.
And when you when you knew thatthat was going to be such a
driving force and and the touchpoint of so many of the
characters in the story.

John Glenn (58:08):
Well, I mean, a lot of research because I, you know,
I knew I knew Robin Hood,right?
But I sort of my my knowledgeof Robin Hood was like, you
know, the Kevin Coster movie.
You know, it's like, you know,I mean, I didn't know I didn't
know a ton about I mean, I'm I'myou know, I'm well read and I,
you know, we're writers, so weall read and we love history.
And so I knew a little, youknow, I guess an okay, uh a

(58:30):
certain level, right?
But I had to read tons ofbooks, and we went all the way
back to the original ballads.
I mean, you know, most of ourunderstanding of Robin Hood
comes from the 20th century.
You know, it's sort of themovies of, you know, it's
Aerolflyn or whatever, and aDisney movie, whatnot.
So we went all the way back andreally started to read kind of
the first mentions of him andhistorical texts and these

(58:50):
ballads and that sort of thing.
And uh, and then I startedreading about you know, King
Richard and and uh, you know,John, Prince John, and you know,
he becomes a king as well, andEleanor of Aquitaine, and so a
lot of that stuff was happeningaround the same time, and you
know, so it it felt like areally interesting opportunity

(59:12):
to to sort of bring those worldstogether in a real way.
And that's what starts tohappen over the course of the
season.
And in this conversion story,it's uh it's slow, you know what
I mean?
It's a very slow burn.
Like he he doesn't just convertto Christianity, you know.
I mean, he's going to he'sgoing to fight that.
I mean, he's very committed tohis sort of pagan, you know,
kind of God, you know, forestworship stuff.

(59:33):
But it but in my mind, likeeven Gotda, Godd is an angel.
She's not, she, you know, she'snot, she's not some mystical
forest spirit, because I don'tbelieve in mystical forest
spirits, but but I do believe inangels, and I, you know, I
believe there are times whenthey intercede and maybe, you
know, make themselves, you know,make us aware of their presence

(59:55):
or or and they're bringingsomething to us.
And so that, you know,somewhere along.
Along the line, it's hisinteraction with Tuck.
Tuck comes in in episode 104,played by another phenomenal
British actor.
And it's a slow burn.
You know, it's a very, veryslow, slow burn.
But I think it's a, I thinkit's a really interesting story
to be able to tell.

(01:00:16):
I think the challenge too isjust not making the church sort
of just the typical, you know,here comes the Christian church
and they're such they're suchbad guys, because, you know,
everyone was a good guy and abad guy back then.
You know, things weren'tentirely, I don't think
everything was just so clear inthat type of a world.
I mean, that's a world talkabout real, you know, based upon

(01:00:37):
real power, you know, and andand sort of, you know, it's, you
know, it's, you know, aninfraction back in that day can
get you killed.
You don't get a parking ticket,you know.
So I think it it has to be aslow burn, has to be earned, and
it has to, it has to notalienate the non-Christian

(01:00:57):
viewer, which I think is alwaysa challenge.
And I and I think it's always agreat mistake that a lot of
Christian, not to be critical,you know, but I think a lot of
Christian writers make a hugemistake in that regard.
It's like they tend to sort ofovertly kind of throw just too
much messaging, but it's thesame thing Hollywood does with

(01:01:18):
their woke insanity, you know,or you, you know, you sit down
to watch a show and suddenlythey're talking about these
ridiculous, you know, politicalconstructs that you just, you
know what I mean?
It's like you just don't wantto hear it.
So I think you, I think there'sa much smarter way into it.
There's a much smarter way totell that story, telling it
through flawed characters whohave made mistakes that you've

(01:01:40):
seen, you know, and maybe don'teven like them for it at certain
times.
And to to tell that story ofredemption, I think it can be, I
don't know.
I mean, I think it can make adifference to a like, you know,
certainly to like a Christianviewer.
But, you know, the goal, ofcourse, is always that do you
spark an interest in like anon-believer out there?
And does that lead that persononto some type of self-discovery

(01:02:04):
that might lead them, you know,towards a more Christian
perspective?
And that's kind of, and I dothat in everything I write.
It's I haven't I can't rememberanything I've written that
doesn't have some thematic, somecode of theme, you know, built
into it, you know, that youknow, that is an exploration of

(01:02:25):
that.

James Duke (01:02:25):
Looks good.
Thank you.
Justin, you had a question.
Go ahead.

Justin (01:02:28):
Yeah, so I was wondering a bit about the process of
developing this, like when youfirst had the idea and pitching
it and taking it out.
Did you have just severalepisodes written, or was it just
a pilot at first?
And then also how much researchdid you do with?

(01:02:50):
I know you're familiar with theRobin Hood story, but did you
go back and watch some of thoseother ones, even if you had
critiques of them or rereadthings or anything like that?

John Glenn (01:03:01):
Well, the pro the process was so this project in
particular was as much about thestory, the characters, you
know, Robin Hood, as it wasabout this business that I have
in Serbia, right?
So we wrote four episodes, andbut we didn't share four.
We just shared the the pilot inepisode 102, but I did the

(01:03:24):
budget, you know, I did the thethe pilot budget and a full
series budget, and you know, hadthis production plan and I and
I and I've worked in Serbia inBelgrade, so I understand it
there, which gives them comfort.
It's not like it's just, oh,let's just go to Serbia.
You know, this is an incrediblyrisk-averse business.
So you have to kind of findways, even in the pitch, right?

(01:03:47):
Even in when you're going in inthe initial stages of
development to assuage theirfears and to, you know, signal
that you understand the risks,you know, that that are, and
that you've already sort ofaccounted for for for said
risks.
So the development piece of itwas, you know, starting this
business with Jonathan Englishover there, identifying, okay,

(01:04:10):
what's the first project we'regoing to go to the town with?
And we had Cabin Fever with Elikind of on deck, but I just
didn't think Cabin Fever was thebest first choice, you know,
when it came right down to it.
And timing was a piece of it.
And, you know, so we went outwith it's as much a piece of
business as it is a TV show.

(01:04:31):
It's like this is a show that'sgoing to look like it costs $10
million an episode and it'sgoing to cost 75% less than
that, you know?
And that's very appealing toany studio or any streamer
because they understand that foryou know, one for the cost of
one episode of Stranger Things,they can get 10 episodes,
essentially, you know, so theycan have an entire series.

(01:04:52):
And they also understand thestudio in particular understands
that they're going to be inprofit before we even start
shooting.
Because we were, we werebasically, you know, we had a
domestic anchor.
It's called, so you kind ofalways need no matter what, is a
domestic anchor, you know, likeyou know, Amazon US or Netflix,
whatever.
Because the first thingoverseas, if you go to BBC or

(01:05:14):
ZDF or whoever, you know, ITV,they're the first question
they're gonna ask is who's thedomestic anchor?
Because they want to make surethat you have an American
counterpoint because still theAmerican influence globally with
entertainment is just sopowerful.
So without that domesticanchor, it's it's tricky.
So we went, we went with uhexcuse me, with MGM Plus, and

(01:05:37):
they licensed it, you know, perepisode from us.
And so their licensing fee perepisode didn't cover the entire
budget, but it was close.
So we only had to pick up a fewhundred thousand dollars more,
and then we sold to I forget whowe had an we well, we actually
well it ended up being at MGMPlus International because they
outbid BPC.

(01:05:58):
So just with those two pieces,we were already even, and then
we owned the rest of the world.
So we controlled, like youknow, so then we went to Mipcom
a month ago or six weeks ago, Ican't remember when it was, and
sold the rest of the world.
You know, so the show was inprofit.
All of the risk was mitigatedbefore we even started shooting.
Like we had we'd cobbledtogether from two sources the

(01:06:21):
basically the budget of theshow.
And so everything else wasessentially profit that you
don't spend on on you knowadvertising, marketing, that
sort of thing.
I didn't, you know, it's weird.
Like I did, I didn't, Ideliberately didn't go back and
watch any of the Robin Hoodstuff.
You know, I just have I havefond memories of the Kevin
Coster, you know, version of ofcourse seeing the Aero Flynn

(01:06:41):
version, but I just didn't thinkit'd be helpful because you
know, my approach to it wascompletely different.
It was just a completelydifferent origin, it was an
origin story approach, you know,and that and and I don't that
to me, I don't it's I don't knowa version, I can't remember a
version where there's ever beenan origin story.
You kind of sort ofanecdotally, you know, in an
anecdotal sense, understand Idon't know, why he's Robin Hood,

(01:07:05):
but you don't really understandit.
Like you don't really feel it,you don't experience it, you're
not, you're not there with him.
And uh and so all most of theinspiration was really about
trying to understand how can webring real history into it.
Because the where the showends, which I think you always
have to know is it ends withRobin Hood standing beside King
John, Prince John in season one,when he signs the Magna Carta.

(01:07:29):
So it's like which was reallythe first document that sought
to to to protect individualrights, you know.
That's cool, that's reallycool.
This whole story ultimately islike it's and I think you have
to have all of these kind ofmultiple dimensional concepts
going on that so it's an originstory, sure, rot about Robin

(01:07:54):
Hood, but it's also an originstory about the Magna Carta, you
know, and it's an origin storyof the obsession.
Where does this obsession thatthe sheriff has for Robin Hood?
Where does that come from?
So we're telling that hedoesn't have full I'm going to
hunt and kill Robin Hood untilthe end of season two.
And I just broke season two.
And by the end of season two,you fully understand why he

(01:08:18):
becomes this this this legendaryiconic figure obsessed with
kill, and that's his story inseason three.
It's just old-fashioned,sheriff.
I'm going to find you and I'mgoing to kill you.
You know, and of course hedoesn't because it's Robin Hood,
because he can't Robin Hoodcan't die, you know.

I mean, there's so how many episodes do you plan
per season?
Ten.
So 10.
Oh, that's good.
That's good.
Eliza, you had a question?

Eliza (01:08:48):
Yeah, it was more of a comment about just like the
Anglo-Saxon mysticism withChristianity.
I don't know if you've readthat hideous strength, but like
how they how C.S.
Lewis handles it, I I thoughtis interesting and similar to
what you were saying.

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of I mean, I've read
all of you know Lewis's stuffand and I'll and I'm obviously
influenced by a lot of you knowChristian apologists, Christian
thinkers, and and from the timeI was a kid, you know.
It just is something thatmotivates me.
But yeah, I mean, I think that,you know, you take you
definitely I definitely takeborrow stuff that goes through,

(01:09:28):
you know what I mean, that comesthrough me in terms of ideas,
right?
I mean, it's sort of like Imean, if there's there's always
some sense of of something thatwas written before me that that
finds its way onto every page Iwrite, you know, but it's almost
always thematic.
It's not words characters aresaying, or you know, or it's
it's thematic.

(01:09:48):
It's like it goes back to thatthing that we talked about
earlier, which is like, why areyou why are you writing?
I mean, like, why are youwriting this thing?
Because if you don't know why,you shouldn't write it.
And it doesn't mean that youdid that, doesn't mean that
you're not a writer.
It just means I don't know whyI'm writing this.
I mean, I've started scriptsand gotten 60 pages into them,
and I don't even know.
And I'm like, I don't even knowwhy I'm writing this.
It's like I'm bored.

(01:10:09):
I suddenly I get bored.
And uh and I learned, I thinkthe the hard way is I just throw
those away.
I just stop writing them.
I just stop.
I'm like, you know, I've beenI've written multiple props
features.
So I get 30 pages in, and I'mlike, like this is dumb.
I mean, it just doesn't mean itdoesn't mean anything to me,
you know.
And if it doesn't mean anythingto me, it's definitely not

(01:10:30):
gonna mean anything to you or toanyone else.
It's just not gonna matter, youknow.
So I think that it's findingthat, you know.
I mean, it's like when I wroteClash of the Titans, it's uh
Perseus, you know, he's he'skind of a mess, you know, very
flawed figure, and he goes onthis whole crazy quest, you

(01:10:52):
know, and faces down Medusa andwhatever, and and he and there's
this kind of father figure typecharacter at his side, older
man, and uh kind of his mentor,and and he ends up being killed.
But at the but there's thisgreat scene at the end when he's
completely Perseus is justlike, I mean, beat to hell.

(01:11:13):
I mean, he's he's basicallyleft for dead, covered in in
wounds, and he's been basicallytortured.
You know, the woman that hefell in love with has been
kidnapped, taken back by thishorrible, terrible antagonist,
this guy Calabus, and it's justthis guy's a horrible person.
And then he has this vision ofhis of his mentor who's dead.

(01:11:37):
It's not even a vision, it'slike a material he he comes to
see him, and you realize thatthat guy with him was God.
I mean, that it's like you meanI don't say it's God, but it's
like very, very clear that it'sGod, and that this entire time
he's had God walking by him.
And I'll say it's Jesus or it'sa Christian God, or it's
because it doesn't, right?
It doesn't matter.

(01:11:57):
And I remember like the studioexecs just absolutely flipped
out over that when they read,they just loved it.
They're like, oh my God, it'sjust like, you know, and and
it's kind of the same with Gothain Robin Hood.
It's like she she's presentedas oh, she's this pagan,
whatever, and she's walking, youknow.
But to me, she's she's anangel.
I mean, you know, she's beensent to help these people and

(01:12:20):
and to and to and to in some waybring them, you know, closer to
what I think is the truth.
And so I that's like that's whyI wrote Colossus the Titans was
that moment.
I wrote that whole script forthat moment, and then everything
became about serving thatmoment and getting that
character to that place where hegot back up off the ground, you
know what I mean?
And it's like, and he he, youknow, he got he got back onto

(01:12:44):
the horse and he literally goesback to face an entire army
alone.
But I mean, literally alone.
And so it's a really, it's areally, really powerful moment.
And like, and I could still saylike that's why I wrote that,
that's why I wrote that script.
There's no other reason.
It was that was the onlyreason, you know.
I didn't care if I get paid.

(01:13:04):
I you know what I mean.
They could have paid me any.
I didn't, they could have paidme anything.
I remember when I found out howmuch I was gonna get paid for
it.
I was like, I remember, yeah, Igot they have to pay me that
much, you know.
I mean, I don't get also soit's that's that stuff.
I mean, yeah, and that allcomes from, I think, just you
know, we probably all have a lotin common in terms of our
backgrounds and and whatanimates us, you know, or is

(01:13:27):
important to us.
And so I think finding that isreally important too, because I
think you get into the dog daysof a script, like, you know,
even me, I've been doing it for27 years, and I've I've sold
almost 80 projects filmintelligent intelligence
projects, and but I still get Istill have two things that
happen to me.
I look at a blank screen, Ithink I'm a fraud.

(01:13:48):
I'm just like, I'm just like,how am I actually gonna fill
these pages?
And it's kind of intimidatingand scary.
And then I get halfway throughit and I just am like, I I, you
know, it just it's stillintimidating halfway through
because I don't know if whatI've done is right is right, and
I don't know if what I'm gonnado is right.
And that's where for mepersonally, it's like I always
lean on I find God in thosemoments, you know.

(01:14:09):
It's just sort of like I justkind of close my eyes and just
say a prayer and move throughit.

That's really good advice.
That's actually great advice.
Let's talk a little bit.
You've already talked, youknow, obviously about some
production, but I'm just curiousabout just some of the the
specifics.
So 10 episodes, about excuseme, how many days are you
shooting per episode?
The I know the old school TVway, the old broadcast 22

(01:14:36):
episode was it was like everyeight days, and there was like
always there was either anepisode being written being shot
or in post, and it was kind oflike you had to keep that
machine going.
For you guys, are you doinganything like that?
Or is everything all written?
Is the cake baked before youeven start shooting the is

(01:14:57):
episode eight written and allgood before you even start
shooting the pilot?
Or and then how many days didit take to shoot each episode?
Just curious about yourthoughts on that.

Well, we had we had a particularly challenging
schedule because there werethree or four people that wanted
it, you know, and the reason wewent with MGM Plus is uh they
would give us 10 episodes, andso if you're gonna I mean, it
requires the same amount of workto build and prep and shoot
eight as it does really 15 whenit comes right down to it,

(01:15:29):
because the only difference isthe writing, right?
That's the only differencethere.
So MGM Plus would do 10, andI'm like, I'm just going where
there's 10, you know, we couldhave gone to Amazon.
It's still Amazon in a way, butAmazon and Netflix are pretty
committed to eight.
And that you know, and so Ijust it's just it's just
financially better for me to do10.
And it's but it's it's there'sjust the workload is not that

(01:15:51):
different.
This this was a little bitdifferent in that we so the head
of MGM Plus was like, I'llgreen light.
He called me and said, I'llgreen light, I want to green
light this.
I'll green light it if you tellme you can deliver it.
This we sold it in July of 24,and he said, if you can deliver
it in the third quarter of 25.
And I said, Yeah, what oh damn,don't worry about it.
Yeah, 100, which honestly was,I don't want to say it was a

(01:16:14):
lie, but it definitely wasn'tthe truth.
Definitely not the truth.
So it's a little bit like youdon't want to lie, but but the
reality is if I'd said no, I'dsay oh it's tough because the
reality was it's more like firstquarter of 26 would have made a
lot more sense.
But the minute you the minuteyou do that, your show can go

(01:16:37):
away, right?
I mean, it's like they had athey had a window, they want
something for then.
So we started prepping softprep in August of last of 24.
And you know, we didn't startbuilding till the end of
October, and we were shootingFebruary 17th.
So we only had four scriptswritten when we started, and so

(01:17:00):
it was it was it was it wastough because I I had you know I
had to go out to Belgrade andhire and all that kind of stuff,
and to come back here and andgo, you know, be in the room
with Kenny and Jacob, and it wasjust Kenny and Jacob and I, you
know, it wasn't a larger room,and uh, you know, the season
wasn't really broken, it sort ofhad a kind of an idea what was
gonna happen, and so we had tobreak the entire season, then I

(01:17:20):
had to rewrite the first four tokind to sort of work fluidly
with where everything was elsewas going.
And then we had six scripts,and I think we had five written
when we started production, andso I'm there, I'm there at that
point.
I left I was there January 9thor 10th, and you know, so I was
writing, I was literally writingtill two weeks before we

(01:17:41):
started shooting the lastepisode.
Now, the way that we from aproduction perspective, like you
know, most network shows arelike eight days, and you know,
it's kind of that's that'stricky, but you know, there it's
it's less there's there'sthere's I don't want to say
there's less to, you know, butCSI or whatever, it's like
that's a different show thanRobinhood.
It's just that is more kind ofabout what happens next, right?

(01:18:04):
It's like it's a mystery, it'sthis, it's whatever.
There's some character work, ofcourse, but the audiences are
really tuning in for more forthe plot when it comes down to
it.
But this is, you know, it'smore prestige television.
So you have to really, reallytell those character stories.
So we had 11 days an episode,but I also built in into the

(01:18:24):
budget 35 uh second unit days.
And then I put in the budgetthe money for those second unit
days, much it's much cheaperthan what would it cost here.
It was more expensive than whatit would cost there because I
knew for a fact that what I wasselling as second unit days
would ultimately become mainunit days.
We'd be running two full mainunits.

(01:18:48):
Smart.
Yeah, and what and what weended up doing is running two
full main units for 28 of thosesecond unit days.
Wow.
I could be I could talk to adirector and just say, What you
know, we could I could look at aschedule right away and say,
we're definitely not making thisday, it's just not happening,
so let's just be smart.
And they would kick it to thesecond unit day.

(01:19:10):
And because I because we'reworking in Belgrade, we're not
subject to DGA rules, so I couldgo direct all the second unit
stuff.
I could just go, cool, I'mgonna go direct whatever, three
scenes today from threedifferent episodes that are
owed.
And you can't do that herebecause the DGA restricts you
from that, right?
Here, and I'm DGA, so here noone can direct an episode or a

(01:19:33):
scene in a film that I'mdirecting.
No other director can come inand do that.
It's a much more collaborativething in Eastern Europe in
particular.
Directors are used to doingthat, like they all kind of work
together, they all kind of knoweach other, and and it's not,
it's just kind of not a bigdeal.
But it enabled us that's that'swhy, and you'll see as even
when you get to Westminster, thescope just expands, it expands.

(01:19:55):
It's a huge world, but we wereable to do it because of that.
type of planning, you know, butthat has to be really, really
thought out.
And you have to plan it.
And we can make assumptions.
I could make assumptions as ashow runner, as a producer on
those first four scripts andalmost tell you the re the sort
of needs, the production needsof you know five through 10.

(01:20:18):
And then so I could makeassumptions and I knew that we
would have to have I knew wewere going to have to find ways.
I didn't want to go to them tothe studio and say we need 14
days per because what you'redoing then is you're adding you
know 14 days would more like sothat's 30 more days.
That's essentially seven moreweeks of studio rentals, studio

(01:20:40):
space, trucks, gat blah, blah,blah.
That's a different conversationversus oh, we just have these
second unit days for action.
You know, they're like, ohcool, yeah, action.
Yeah, it takes time.
But the majority of that secondunit stuff was devoted to
character scenes, which is kindof kind of wild.
So it's all you just learn thatpresentation matters.

(01:21:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.

And the flow of the flow of knowing because I think
the key one of the key thingsyou said right there is just
looking at the day and going,you're not going to get all
this.
Right.
That that that just that's justexperience that just says to
you, hey, we got to find a wayto get this to work.
And I love that you pre-plannedit.

(01:21:25):
And I think that's the key fora lot of people you got to pay
attention to this everybodywho's listening pay attention to
your pre-planned that's whatpre-production is for.
You've got to think throughscenarios.

It's everything.
I mean if like I said if youget there and you don't if
you're on set and you don'tother than someone getting sick
or some kind of act of Godsomeone you know breaks their
foot or whatever, you can'tpredict any of that.
But if you get to the set andyou start shooting and you don't
know what's going to happen, Ican tell you what's going to
happen total chaos.

(01:21:58):
It's like you're going to be inbig trouble real quick.
And then the minute you're introuble, if you lose the in
particular with the actors ifyou lose their confidence like
you're in trouble like in a realway.
And it's not just about how youinteract with them with
character.
It's like how you're running ashow.
It's like does it feel calm?

(01:22:18):
Does it feel like you know whatyou're doing?
Is everyone having a good time?
I mean does the work does itdoes you know do the sets look
great?
You know, are the costumes theylook great.
That's all confidence andthat's a huge part of it.
It's a total it's a completeconfidence game.
And again with actors itdoesn't really matter who they
are acting is a very it's notthat actors are insecure.
It's just that acting is a veryvulnerable thing to do.

(01:22:41):
I mean you're standing in frontof a bunch of people you know
exposing yourself and you'rebeing emotional at times and
you're trying to find thesethings within yourself that
maybe are you know maybe aresomewhat private or
uncomfortable and you do it infront of like an entire crew.
So if you if they don't feelsafe with you you're in a lot of
trouble but equally if the crewdoesn't feel safe with you if

(01:23:03):
the crew doesn't understand thatyou know what you're doing that
we're going to finish on timewe're going to finish early you
know you're just going to be introuble.

No I think we have another question from Deanne.
Deanne did you have anotherquestion?

Deanne (01:23:18):
It's not really a question but to share as an
audience a viewer of the firstepisode of Robin Hood it
inspired me because in differentplaces I have my notes here so
I don't forget the humanbehavior well first let me say
this congratulations and in notmaking it cheesy.

Yeah exactly right

Deanne (01:23:38):
I really you know Robin Hood everybody knows Robin Hood.
I have the basics but I'velearned so much from your TV
series Robin Hood the depth ofit and I learned I I didn't care
about Robin Hood as much butnow with your TV show I got mad
finding out that I have to waita whole week for the second

(01:23:59):
episode but I didn't see it yetbut I'm going to but I wanted to
binge watch all of yourepisodes is it all made I know
you said that there's 10episodes is it all in post
production right now

yeah everything we're we're just we just locked
the 109 the ninth episode andwe're doing final visual effects
for 110 final music for 110 andyou know just the five all of
that then doing the film filmgrade stuff on it so it's it'll
be done what is the date 110will be delivered on the 27th of

(01:24:39):
this the 26th of this month youknow so we're past a lot of the
chaos I mean it was and it waschaotic it was delivering for
that third quarter was crazy.
It was just it was crazy makingbut it again it had to be done
you know I mean and it's notjust for about you because I
look at it you know if you get ashow going you get a movie

(01:25:01):
going it's like hundreds ofpeople are employed for months
you know doing what they love todo.
And you have and and it reallydoes kind of become like a
family and so you kind of alldevelop these really deep bonds
because you're literally youspend 17 18 hours a day with
people for weeks months and it'slike I mean you spend so much

(01:25:23):
time with people and so you tendto bond very very quickly and
and I immediately start theminute I start to hire people
you start to feel this pressurewhich I think is good.
It's not bad pressure it's goodpressure but you start to feel
that you also have to deliverfor them you know which you do
like it is part of the job rightI mean you have to deliver a
great show for them you have todeliver a great environment for

(01:25:45):
them you know it's like you haveto make it special for them.

Deanne (01:25:49):
So you bought uh you sold the show July 2024 I want
to know so you're done thismonth post-production so that's
about a year and a half ofpre-production production and
post production is that right

about but we didn't start official prep so we sold
it and then they had to do ofcourse MGM and Lionsgate had to
do all of their contracts whichtook two months to do but we
started to bump up against likea real deadline where I was like
look you have to give me like$3000.
And I remember Kenny you know Iremember he sent me October

(01:26:28):
21st or no September 21st hesent me this email that I put
them on because I put them on alot of my emails with the heads
of the studios and stuff so theycan see kind of the behind the
scenes of it all.
And I get permission from youknow my executives because I
think it's a part of like kindof you know building them up and
so they understand really kindof just so they get a they look

(01:26:50):
behind the curtain.
And he forwarded me this emailon September 21st a year ago 24
when I I wasn't like yelling orwhatever but I was being very
like I need 4000 wired to thisUK account.
This is the thing too it's likewe had UK accounts and survey
and they were just like they'dnever done anything like this.

(01:27:10):
So they're just like where'sthis money going like who's and
I'm like don't worry about it.
But I was like I need fourthousand dollars today for
lumber and that was what it wasabout I go I need lumber it has
to be the trucks have to leavetomorrow and they have to be in
Belgrade by the following day tostart building or we're not

(01:27:30):
shooting and I'm like that isthat simple you know so and that
was a honestly like an almost afull day conversation when I
should have been writing to get$4000 wired you know because
they hadn't quite finished theirnegotiations with MGM plus and
but they're arguing over youknow words and stuff and it's

(01:27:50):
like we're making the show youknow so we really started prep
soft prep this this top ofSeptember with wardrobe and uh
and and and set designs and youknow whatever production design
all of that and then thosepeople were working for free for
three or four weeks because wedidn't have the money.

(01:28:11):
But we're just like you knowbut we had to start and they
were they were cool enough tojust jump in you know but you
know and then we moved into thestudio and we were in pain for
the studio.
We were like moved to thestudio in Belgrade and just told
the head of the studio thewhere we shot PFI studios like
you know we have to get in therenow to start working and and
they're like all right cool.
So they let us go in there fora month for free.

(01:28:33):
So but yeah so really reallyreal prep started the moment
that would the literally themoment the lumber trucks left
for for wherever they get thelumber somewhere in Serbia.
Wow you so I know we're gonnawe're gonna wrap up here soon
but I'm just curious you youknow the the streaming the

(01:28:58):
concept of streaming is a littlebit nebulous in terms of people
knowing the numbers I don't youknow Netflix is famous for not
giving numbers and and so I'mjust curious you you we're we're
we're we're interviewing younow and the first two episodes
are out I believe and likewhat's your uh do you get
numbers what's your what's yoursense on the audience and the

(01:29:21):
response from the audience aswell as from the studio and you
know I think you mentioned youbroke season two is there will
there be a season two yeah Imean I think it's it's tricky
with because it's an aggregateright so they aggregate and this
one in particular is a littletrickier because Amazon loves it
so much that they they wantedto show it give the first

(01:29:43):
episode the pilot for free or Ithink on Prime right so they're
super supportive they'remarketing it all around the
world very aggressively and andso it's and it's also available
I think a pay-per-view in someplaces maybe even on prime I
don't I don't quite remember orrecall well at the same time
it's on mgm plus domestic mgmplus you know in like a few

(01:30:06):
territories internationally thenthen on like zdf in germany and
what so you have to aggregateall of that information they
love it i mean they absolutelylove it like this the network in
the studio absolutely love itamazon loves it you know they
think that it's they just youknow that it's just if you see
the whole season I think youguys will like it it is very
well done it's very thoughtfulput it that way you know I mean

(01:30:28):
it's like there's a lot ofenergy a lot of effort and a lot
of time that went into it andbut my sense is that there will
be that they did they did pay meand Kenny and Jacob to go into
a mini room in September.
So we were in a room for fourweeks I started writing season
two right when I got back fromSerbia the like August 4th I
started kind of working on itthen the first week of September

(01:30:50):
the three of us were in a roomright a writer's room and we
kind of we broke we took allthat and then further broke it
and and then I wrote it and tookturned into a 23 page season
two document and gave that tothem last week.
So my sense is there will be aseason two and I think part of
it is of course it's like theylove the show but I think the
other part of it is it's theprice point too you know it's

(01:31:12):
like they have to have showsright and so I mean I don't know
a show that's less than four orfive million an episode these
days and that's cheap thesedays.
That's very very cheap.

Yeah I just read that HBO Max was looking for
they called them prestigals orsomething which is their pit no
no they're it's a prestige it'sa combination of prestige
procedural yeah and because ofthe pit and they but they're but
they're they're they're cappingit at four million an episode

(01:31:44):
they're like they gotta be yougot to bring which I you know
you and I remember when that wasunheard of I remember hearing
about I think it was Star Trekthe next generation or something
was the first million dollar anepisode TV show or something
kind of crazy.
And now like you said that's onthe low end now.
Four million is on the low endand so if you can bring a show
in under four that's a huge hugebreakthrough per episode.

Yeah it's huge because it puts them it puts
them in profit mitigates therisk and so there's no and part
of the business model that formy company there is if there's
no risk financially and andmaybe it's not even the biggest
hit in the world right maybeit's not like you know whatever
peaky blinders or what orwhatever but as long as there's
an audience and they're makingmoney there's no reason for them

(01:32:27):
not to order another season.
And we're well I mean I canjust tell you that we're well
under three million dollars anepisode well under that number
and you know but it looks Iwould I mean it's I've made
stuff that costs 14 million youknow what I mean for one episode
of television and and it looksbetter than than all than a lot

(01:32:47):
of that.
So if you can deliver those twothings and they have a good
experience and they like itthat's the like that's the
that's the best path the bestpath toward a renewal is is it's
the finances are are a huge ora huge piece.
It's very tough to do anythingfor four million dollars an
episode here unless it's onelocation interior.
You know what I mean it's likeit's you know and even then it's

(01:33:09):
tricky you're gonna have to bein Atlanta or Vancouver or
something like that, which isfine but but four million is
even and I know that too becauseI I sat down with a with the
head of Fox not long ago andhe's the same.
He's like they're gonna theywant four million episode period
and they have a $5000 pool foractors and they don't that's it.

(01:33:30):
So say if one big actor maybethat actor gets I don't know
$350,000 an episode which is nota lot for a named TV actor
which sounds crazy but it's it'snot a lot for a named TV actor.
I mean the last the lastnetwork pilot I did the actor
was getting $450 an episode youknow and yeah so it's like he's
making seven eight nine milliona year.

(01:33:52):
He's the he's the cost of thelumber yeah literally he
literally but the cost of thelumber that was all the lumber
for all the sets too like it wasthat's all it costs which is
kind of crazy if you think aboutit.
So yeah I think I think that'sbecoming the new norm.
So I think even in yourconception you have to when
you're conceiving of a show youmay want to do like you need to

(01:34:14):
you it's like you need to a lotof younger writers kind of go
into it and they're like I'mgonna change this you're not
gonna change the system likeit's just you're not I mean it's
like except the pit kind ofchanged the system in a way
right but that was John Wellslike that's John Wells.
Like he's already he is thesystem he gets yeah and and he's
changing it and making itcheaper like he's not going oh

(01:34:35):
here's this thing I'm gonna doit's gonna cost 20 million an
episode it's like here's thisthing I'm gonna do and it's
gonna be five million orwhatever which is a total
bargain for HBO.

Right a total bargain you know yep John this
has been fantastic it's it'sbeen just a masterclass of so
many different things that wetalk about at act one and just
congratulations on the show.
It's uh it it I've only seenthe pilot and I'm looking I'm
looking forward to seeing theother episodes because it really

(01:35:07):
was a fun show.
So congratulations and we oneof the things that we like to do
at Act One is we like to prayfor our guests at the end of the
class.
Would you allow me to pray foryou?
Yeah I would appreciate thatHeavenly Father we just pause
and just thank you for thechance to once again be together
and to learn and grow asartists and as filmmakers and as
storytellers.

(01:35:27):
God we thank you for the chanceto meet with John.
We pray a blessing upon him andhis life and his family and we
pray this in Jesus' name andyour promises we stand.
Amen.
Thank you for listening to theAct One podcast celebrating over
20 years as the premiertraining program for Christians
in Hollywood Act One is aChristian community of
entertainment industryprofessionals who train and

(01:35:48):
equip storytellers to createworks of truth, goodness and
beauty.
The Act One program is adivision of Master Media
International to financiallysupport the mission of Act One
or to learn more about ourprograms visit us online at Act
One Program dot com and to learnmore about the work of Master
Media go to mastermedia

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Writer/Producer John Glenn

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics

All Episodes

Writer/Producer John Glenn

Stuff You Should Know