October 15, 2025 • 52 mins
Housing isn’t just math on a screen, it’s a story about stability, memory, and the people who fight to keep a roof overhead. We sit down with Julian Joseph, former FHA leader and founder of JYJ Consulting, to unpack what the “human side of housing” really means when rates are sticky, costs are rising, and trust is fragile. Julian takes us back to her time in foreclosure counseling, ground zero during the housing crisis, where desperate families taught her the North Star that still guides her work: every policy decision touches generations.
From there, we get practical. We talk about the AMI traps that exclude households who look “fine on paper” but are living paycheck to paycheck, and why empathy must be an operating system, not a slogan. Julian lays out a playbook for credit unions to lead: get creative with down payment assistance (split funds across points, closing costs, and principal to maximize life-of-loan affordability), layer support with HFAs and employer contributions, and bring real member stories to policymakers so rules track with reality. We also examine a cultural shift that turns originators into trusted advisors, coaching members to restructure debt, delay a close, or pursue a different path when that’s the right move. That honesty fuels referrals, lowers default risk, and rebuilds confidence in a market still shadowed by 2008.
Trust sits at the center of this conversation, and credit unions hold a unique advantage: multi-generational relationships and community roots. Use them on purpose. Host family days, financial wellness nights, and open-door hours where members can share what “affordable” really feels like in their ZIP code. Then carry those insights upstream. We close with a reminder that kindness isn’t soft; it’s how coalitions form and change happens.
If this resonates, share it with your team, subscribe for more human-first mortgage conversations, and leave a review telling us how you’re building trust and affordability in your community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
The views and opinions expressed in this
podcast do not necessarilyreflect the views or positions
of Acuma, its board ofdirectors, its management staff,
or its members.
The podcast discussion presentedis conversational in nature and
for general information only.
SPEAKER_03 (00:27):
This is ACMA's OnPoy Podcast.
On today's episode, we'll diveinto the human side of housing
and homeownership.
Ladies and gentlemen, boys andgirls, welcome to ACMA's OnPoy
Podcast, a series of folksmensharing the stories of people
who are making a positive impactin the credit union mortgage
(00:48):
industry.
I'm your host, Peter Benjamin.
Today I am joined by JulianJoseph, founder and principal of
JYJ Consulting LLC.
Julian.
Hey.
What is going on?
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
Listen, you know what?
This is another day in thehousing finance industry, you
know, just letting the grassgrow under our feet.
Nothing to talk about here.
SPEAKER_03 (01:10):
That's right.
But letting the grass grow underour feet.
I love that.
Now, it Julian, like I said, Iwe gotta, I'm actually, I hate
to say actually, becauseactually always has negative
connotations.
But ever since you propose thistopic, you know, the human side
of housing, I couldn't be moreexcited to have this
(01:33):
conversation with you today.
You know, really, because it wewe can take this in many
different ways, right?
And we often talk about it, butyou know, it's always impacting.
We never really dive into it.
Uh, and so I'm really lookingforward to diving into that idea
of you know, the human side ofhousing and home ownership, you
know, really what motivates us,you know, what motivates you,
(01:55):
you know, the challenges andopportunities in the space, and
why it matters so deeply.
Because I think that last part,you know, why it matters, you
know, we often say it, we putfamilies in homes.
But but let's let's let'sinvestigate that.
Let's let's really jump go intothat a bit more.
Excited for this conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (02:13):
Yeah, that'd be great.
SPEAKER_03 (02:15):
But before we get to it, as always, gotta bring
Justin to the conversation togive us the latest and greatest
happening over at because theHawk.
What's going on?
SPEAKER_04 (02:23):
What is the latest and greatest happening over at
well over here at Acma, we arecoming back for manual, so we're
all sort of in recovery mode,but we're rocking and rolling.
We're still asleep.
What is sleep again?
I don't know.
That thing that escapes all ofus.
(02:44):
Yeah, that's true.
Um well, uh just because all ofour in-person events have
finished for the year, I knowthere's some sad violin music
playing somewhere.
That doesn't mean that we areout of the weeds of events with
Acuma.
Uh, we actually, and I hate thatword as well, but we do have an
event coming up tomorrow.
It is our uh marketing networkmeeting.
(03:05):
So if you haven't registered andyou're looking to learn some new
marketing tips and tricks, comejoin me and some of the
co-chairs uh as we have ourcourt our Q4 meeting.
Um then next week we'll have ourservicing network meeting.
So again, if you're in theservicing space or just want to
learn more about mortgages andservicing, then that's the place
(03:26):
for you to be.
Um other than that, we have ourinside tracks going on all year
round and our favorite on-pointpodcast.
SPEAKER_03 (03:35):
And I would be you know remiss if I if I didn't say
that you know, outside of theevents, outside of everything
that we're working on, uh I feelas though we we should probably
mention you know the the twoopen board positions, right?
Oh, absolutely.
Or three, three, three.
It's three, three.
SPEAKER_04 (03:51):
Oh three, and that was announced at annual um at
the end of the conference,actually.
So that's right.
SPEAKER_03 (03:57):
That's right.
So again, there's that word ifyou're listening and and you're
part of the credit unionmovement.
Um, we currently have threeboard positions open, so be on
the lookout for more to come onthat.
But just if you're interested,feel free to shoot me an email
and uh we'll get you in contactwith the powers that be.
But, anyways, enough of Acuma.
(04:17):
Justin, thank you very much.
Of course.
All right, Julian.
All right, so yeah.
That's a game on.
All right, so first thingsfirst.
Like, so I I already we wetalked about the topic, we
teased the topic, but before weget to it, we always start with
the same question, we always endwith the same question.
(04:39):
So we're we're not gonna go awayfrom that.
We're gonna stick to that thatformat.
But I I think now more thanever, and I'm doing a long intro
to the first question.
Now more than ever, I think thisuh question tees up our
conversation quite nicely.
And the last question reallyencompasses today's conversation
(05:04):
as well.
So, but we'll get to that.
So, first question is you know,who is Julian Joseph?
And and you can take that aspersonal or as professional as
you want.
You can lead us down whateverrabbit hole that you want to,
but that is the first question.
Who is Julia Joseph?
SPEAKER_01 (05:22):
Ah, well, first of all, thanks for having me, guys.
I'm so happy to be here.
You guys are absolutely myfavorite group of people.
Um, so thanks for uh for havingme today.
Where do I start?
Who is Julian Joseph?
I'm a lover of people.
And I think uh, you know, I comefrom two parents who were
educators, uh lifelongeducators.
(05:44):
Uh, they are also folks whobelieve in mission and
strengthening communities andleaving people better than they
found them.
So, you know, my mom is anordained minister, my father is
also a deacon uh at theirchurch, and I come from a family
of people who uh lean into ahigher power in order to be the
(06:08):
best version of themselves.
So um, who is Julian?
She's somebody who is justtrying to leave people better
than she found them.
That's who I am.
SPEAKER_03 (06:19):
I love that.
Love, love, love, love, lovethat.
That was awesome.
That was awesome.
All right, so let's go into theconversation.
So the conversation is reallygonna be centered around, you
know, the human factor of or thehuman side of housing and
homeownership.
And I and I'm gonna expand onwhat I said earlier and why I
love this so much.
(06:39):
And if I if it's okay, I'll giveyou I'm gonna give you a little
short story.
And this is about you, but it'snot about me, but I'm gonna give
you a short story.
Okay.
Pandemic.
Um painting the picture, thepandemic.
It's all about refinances, it'sall about you know closing more
loans, right?
And that that's really, youknow, outside of uh of
(07:00):
everything that happened in thepandemic, the mortgage business
was rocking, right?
Volume like we never saw.
Now, I'm gonna add to this, I'mgonna sidestep.
About 15, maybe 20 years ago, amentor of mine told me our job
is simple.
(07:21):
We put families in homes.
And and and that that that sunkwith me.
It hit me to my core.
And I promised myself, okay,well, if I ever lose sight of
that, we put families in homes,I'll either do one of two
things, make a transition tosomething that ignites that
passion again, or open my ownbrewery.
SPEAKER_01 (07:45):
I love it.
SPEAKER_03 (07:46):
I know, right?
Totally two different things,but the same thing.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (07:51):
Pandemic.
I lost that site.
I lost the I I started focusingon the numbers.
I started only thinking about weall right, last month we broke a
record.
Can we break another record?
We broke another record, can webreak another record?
Can we close more loans?
Um, and it wasn't even about themoney, it was just the numbers,
right?
I didn't focus on the people,right?
(08:14):
I didn't focus on, hey, we'rehelping someone.
We're we're actually doing that.
And so that's why I've made thattransition to acumen.
So that's why this conversationtoday hits a home for me,
because all too often we can eatthis is this this this is a
message that we can easily losesight of of families and homes
(08:36):
and the higher purpose, thehuman side.
But if we think back to the thefinancial crisis, you know, or
the Great Recession, whateveryou want to frame it up as.
The human side was never eventhought of, never even
considered in the majority ofthe decisions that were being
(08:56):
made.
And so I'm a firm believer if ifif you don't learn from your
mistakes, you're going to repeatthem.
So let's have this conversation,Julian, the human side.
So provide me your perspective.
I mean, obviously this issomething that you've dedicated
your life to, you've seen greatsuccess to, you've been part of
(09:17):
the administration, you know,the the past administration with
FHA.
Uh you're over at MBA with theMortgage Makers Association.
I mean, you uh have made acareer and you you've
originated, you've made a careerof this helping people get into
house.
And so for you, you know walk methrough the human side, walk me
(09:42):
through what motivates you.
And and and uh let's let's focuson those two things, like the
human side and what motivatesyou, and we'll get to the other
parts of the challenges and whyit matters in a little bit
later.
SPEAKER_01 (09:53):
Yeah, you teed it up perfectly, Peter, um, by
mentioning the housing crisis.
Uh that is where I establishedmy North Star for this work.
Um, prior to that, I hadoriginated and, you know, was a
practitioner.
And uh, of course, you know,that impacted everybody once the
bottom fell out.
Uh, but I knew that I didn'twant to stray too far from
(10:14):
housing, and I knew that themarket would rebound at some
point.
So that's when I went to theneighborhood housing services of
Baltimore and decided to be aforeclosure cross a foreclosure
counselor there, uh, which wasground zero for the housing
crisis.
And I mean, ultimately sawpeople at their very, very
(10:36):
worst.
I mean, I'm telling you, peoplewho would send in pictures of
their children saying, pleasedon't let them take my house.
There were people who were insituations where, you know, at
the before the housing crisishappened, there were two incomes
in the family, and then all of asudden you're down to one.
(10:57):
And then you have a, you know, ahusband or a wife saying, Hey,
honey, don't worry about it.
I'll shoulder it, I'll figure itout myself, don't worry.
And then it's a robbing Peter topay Paul in order to figure out
how to just keep things in themiddle of the road, and then
ultimately, you know, thatcatches up with you.
And I know of people whoactually gave up.
(11:20):
And when I say gave up, theyultimately gave up to the point
now that their kids only haveone parent.
So it was intense, you know whatI mean?
And to see people begging tokeep the roof over their head,
um put that fire in me, notknowing what the trajectory of
(11:41):
my career would be.
But I saw what happens whenpeople make bad policy.
And I promised myself if I wereever in a position to write
policy or anything that I wouldput my hand to, uh, it would
never leave people that way.
And, you know, from 2010 on,that's been the fire in my
(12:03):
belly.
Um, and it not even knowing thatthat would be my training ground
for what I was going to betasked with doing when joining
the administration to solve forFHA's issue with the pandemic.
So my why started as a housingcounselor helping people with
foreclosure 2010 after thehousing crisis in Baltimore.
SPEAKER_03 (12:27):
Well, I mean, I I don't know how to follow that
up, but you know, so it sohonestly that's that's what
motivates you, right?
So that that's that's the fuelbehind your passion and and why
you are on this mission to helpand educate as many people as
you possibly can.
And I see it whenever you talk,I I see it when uh I feel it
(12:52):
when we're in person that thatyou that you just want to help
and you want to be part of it.
So I guess the question isobviously you know, you you
mentioned bad policy, but it'snot just bad policy, it's you
know, it can also be badpractice and greed that lends to
it.
SPEAKER_02 (13:12):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (13:14):
I I guess for me, you know, the the question
really is going to be how how dowe I'm not gonna call it say
right now we're in the middle ofa housing pandemic.
I because I don't want to callit that, right?
But becoming a homeowner isbecoming more difficult.
(13:37):
Um, the cost of things you couldeasily argue is making making it
more difficult for people tosustain homeownership.
Right.
How do we as an industryremember that in either A, well,
maybe it's both, not either, butbut help people achieve this
(13:58):
this uh what we know as theAmerican dream, what's supposed
to be the American dream.
SPEAKER_02 (14:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:04):
But on the flip side, that how can we as an
industry with things uh withinterest rates kind of
plateauing?
I mean, they're never gonna goback to three percent.
We we I think we all can agreethat, right?
Yeah.
We'll say it's plateauing at sixand seven.
SPEAKER_02 (14:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:17):
But everything else is increasing.
Insurance, uh, just the generalcost of food.
I mean, you gotta you gotta eat.
Yeah.
How do we as an industryremember the human side and help
as many people as we possiblycan?
SPEAKER_01 (14:31):
Yeah, it's an empathy thing.
And I think that we are, youknow, in a time and in a season
of survival.
And with survival can come uhthe spirit of apathy.
And I think that, you know,people are dealing with a whole
lot of stuff right now.
I mean, there are a lot offactors and variables.
(14:51):
The age of the first-time homebuyer is somewhere around 38
right now.
You know, it's it's there's awhole lot of stigma that lives
there around homeownership.
Um the first thing that I didwhen I set foot in FHA as the
deputy assistant secretary ofsingle-family housing, I had a
big dry race board in my in myoffice.
(15:13):
And the first thing that I wroteup there was every decision you
make in this office will impactgenerations.
I had that on my board.
I looked at it every morning andI remembered the reason why I
was doing what I was doing.
And um, yes, to your point, it'snot just bad policy, but it can
(15:33):
be bad intentions.
It can be the lack of intentionthat can that can end up having
devastating uh consequences.
Um, how do we solve for this?
Um, it takes a village in orderto do this.
I think that this is now morethan ever the time where there's
silos in the industry that haveto be torn down and destroyed.
(15:56):
There are conversations, toughconversations that need to be
had amongst different corners ofthe housing ecosystem.
Uh, it's gonna take everybodyright now.
And I think that as we see uhsome challenges in the spaces
that we used to rely on in orderto make sure that homeownership
(16:17):
was on the table for a lot ofpeople, we see those things
being rolled back.
So, what does that look like?
Okay, well, we know that youknow down payment assistance on
the federal level is beingchallenged right now, right?
We know that there are a lot ofcommunities, black, brown, you
know, white, you name it,underserved, that need money to
get into a house.
I mean, it is what it is.
(16:38):
Oftentimes the math just doesn'tmath.
Um, even for the millennialsright now, I'm a Gen Xer.
You know what I mean?
So there are still people thatthis, these are the first
generations that are gainfullyemployed, right?
But just because that's the casedoesn't mean that they've
necessarily had enough time inorder to save to make that
initial investment.
(16:58):
So a lot of times theconversations that we hear, this
is where the empathy comes intoplay.
Well, you know, just because youhave a decent check doesn't mean
that you can necessarily front3.5% already because you've been
in the job for six months or for12 months.
Especially if you're the firstone to break that ceiling to
start making good money in yourfamily.
So this is where that empathyconversation has to come into
(17:22):
play.
Practically, what that lookslike is an 80% AMI can be tough
on down payment assistancebecause there are people who are
now making above that who stillneed down payment assistance at
the 120 to 140 ban of AMI.
I'm here in the DC area and I'mtelling you, there are people
(17:43):
who are making six figures rightnow, but they are living check
to check.
But if you put them on some typeof, you know, if if you're
looking at the actual grid ofwhat they would qualify for for
down payment assistance, theymake too much.
But right now I can tell youthey're eating ramen noodles
every night and bowls of cerealto try to make it, right?
So I think that there needs tobe um very candid conversation
(18:07):
to um present the stories to thepolicymakers right now so they
understand that while on paperit looks like people are doing
well, but life life, it happens.
You know what I mean?
People get sick, people losejobs, shutdowns happen, you
know, there are issues that areunforeseen, pandemics happen.
(18:28):
So I think that there needs tobe a broader conversation that
adds additional color so peoplecan understand the spectrum of
the lives that these people areliving and make sure that they
create policy that accounts forthat.
SPEAKER_03 (18:43):
I mean, and right.
I mean you listed so manyamazing challenges, right?
And and we could we can easilyadd to it, right?
That and you're just you knowreally, you know, don't that's
just the tip of the iceberg.
I mean, we give if we even focuson you know construction and and
how builders aren't buildingwhat's considered affordable
(19:05):
housing.
Granted, what does affordablehousing look like, but they're
not building those houses thataren't targeted for the upper
middle class to those onepercenters, right?
They're they're not buildingsomething that's realistic for
the average income earner to toto purchase in that geographic
area.
They're just not.
SPEAKER_02 (19:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (19:24):
You know, and this you know, if there's two fun
fundamental needs that everyperson has, it's it's it's it's
the need, the need to eat andthe need for shelter, right?
Those are the those are the twofundamental things.
And right now, you could easilyargue that uh both of those
things are are are in jeopardybecause of everything happening,
(19:47):
right?
SPEAKER_02 (19:48):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (19:49):
And you know, we saw it in the pan uh and I don't I I
can't I keep saying you know thethe Great Recession or the
financial crisis, so pleaseforgive me.
SPEAKER_02 (19:57):
No, you're good.
SPEAKER_03 (19:59):
But if you think back, that was the first time in
in history that people opted topay their car loans over their
mortgage, right?
For some strange reason they sayshelter isn't that big of a
deal, my Maserati's moreimportant.
(20:22):
At what point in time do we getto the place where the need to
eat is more important thanhousing or or or vice versa,
because neither of that's ahealthy situation.
Yeah, right.
And and I I I I I still don'tunderstand how we fix it because
(20:44):
as an industry, there's just somuch out of our control.
I mean, yes, we can be a voice,yeah, but it's so much out of
our control.
So I I welcome your thoughts onthis.
How can we fix this?
How can we change this?
I think credit unions areuniquely positioned to help
their communities better thananyone else.
But there has to be a way.
(21:04):
There we have to be able to dosomething, right?
SPEAKER_01 (21:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Um, you know, I mentionedearlier that down payment
assistance is a is definitely athing that has always been one
of the major barriers tohomeownership.
Um, it's time to get creative.
I remember the days when I usedto originate and the rate sheets
came out at noon and they werelike, or you know, there's they
slide them on days.
(21:29):
They slide them under your doorquietly because they don't know
if you're on the phone orsomething like that.
And you had to price, you know,from par.
Like, you know, am I taking ahit on this deal?
SPEAKER_03 (21:38):
You know, am I and those things were not easy to
read.
SPEAKER_01 (21:41):
They were not easy to hieroglyphic, seriously.
Or, you know, there were nopricing engines, guys.
We were the pricing engine,right?
SPEAKER_03 (21:49):
Grab your calculator.
SPEAKER_01 (21:50):
Grab your calculator, right?
So, okay, you know, in aparticular deal, do I need to
do, you know, to price it overpar in order to get a lender
credit so I can give a kickbackto help with the closing costs
to make it easier for them?
Like those were the types ofthings that you had to do.
You have to say, okay, ifsomebody is getting$25,000 in
(22:11):
down payment assistance, does itmake more sense to be creative
and structure it?
That, hey, do I put half of thison principal reduction?
Do I take a piece of this inorder, you know, to pay points
so that they have a lower, youknow, interest rate and more
affordable payment for the lifeof the loan?
Like there are times that, youknow, the industry has to start
(22:32):
to tinker with things.
It's a Rubik's Cube again.
It's no longer they come in with$25,000 and you're like, okay,
just dump it on the principal.
That might not be the smartestway to do it.
And you might need to play.
This means you have to haveconversations with consumer
advocacy groups.
This might mean that you need toreach out to the local employers
to see if they're willing to dosome type of employer-based down
(22:53):
payment assistance.
Do you start working with your,you know, local and city
government and say, hey, look,can we do a matching program?
Do you start working with yourhousing finance agencies to see
if there's an opportunity tolayer there?
Like, you know, the days of Uberdelivering your deal is over.
(23:15):
So, you know, we have to figureout where we can put these
crumbs together in order to makea loaf.
And if we don't do that, we'regonna have a huge issue.
And, you know, at Acima, Imentioned on one of the panels
that another thing that we haveto address is the fact that a
lot of these um young folks whoare entering the housing market
(23:37):
right now or even thinking aboutdipping their toe in it, are the
kids of people who lost theirhouses in 2008.
So there's already some PTSDthat's injected into them in
their DNA that makes them say, Ican't trust the bank, which is
why this is a wonderful spacefor the credit unions because
(23:57):
one thing they know is mom anddad have been with this credit
union forever, and I trust them.
There's a different level ofcredibility that you all have
when engaging, particularly withyounger people, because mom and
dad, grandpa, grandma havealready been there, they've got
a relationship, they've neverbeen burned, you know.
So that so it's a little biteasier to have that
(24:19):
conversation.
So I would say to yourlisteners, to one, keep that in
the back of your mind and knowthat you need to name the thing
because that will go a long way.
And I think the second thing islean into the fact that there is
a gift that you all have bybeing in the credit union
network that comes with someinstant credibility that you can
(24:41):
build upon that a lot of otherfinancial institutions don't
have.
So, my answer to your question,Peter, you got to pull the
pencil out, sharpen it, getcreative, figure out how to
leverage funds to the best ofthe ability that you can, and
use education as a tool toempower so people can feel like,
you know what, there isabsolutely no more juice left in
(25:03):
this squeeze.
And I know that, you know, thisloan officer who just worked
with me, this originator whojust worked with me, did
everything they could to get mymortgage down to the lowest
penny possible.
You do that, and maybe you knowwhat, they're not gonna
necessarily go to Starbucks fourtimes a week, you know, in order
to get their latte because Ireally want the house, right?
(25:24):
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Cut it down in two.
Get an espresso instead, and youknow, instead of going back
three times a day.
So those are the types of thingsI think need to need to start
happening.
SPEAKER_03 (25:35):
I love that.
I I I I really do.
And one of the things that youwere hinting at, but I I I'm
gonna reframe I'm gonna frame itup in a different manner.
SPEAKER_02 (25:46):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (25:47):
You are basically saying the the days of being a
salesperson, just being asalesperson are long gone.
We have to go back and befundamentally financial advisors
and trusted partners for our ourour borrowers, our members, our
(26:07):
communities, whatever you wantto frame it up as, because we
have to go above and beyond tohelp them.
And you know, even if to thepoint of saying, you know, let's
restructure your debt to to makethis more affordable for you and
(26:28):
come back to me in a month, comeback to me in two months, come
back to me in three months, onceall this stuff is kind of paid
off.
Even if so, even if we have todo that as a trusted financial
advisor, that still helps thembe better, right?
We we can't just be salespeople,we can't just be a person
pushing a widget.
We have to be counsels, we haveto be consultants, because that
(26:51):
type of mindset where we'retrying to problem solve, but
also put them in a betterfinancial well-being is really
what's needed nowadays.
SPEAKER_01 (27:01):
Absolutely.
And it's it's smart businesssense because you know, if you
do that level of due diligence,right, you're making sure that
they are having the mostaffordable mortgage possible.
You're potentially talking tothem about restructuring debt.
You know, you're building thatrelationship with them that they
feel like a trusted partner.
So, one, you're gonna make surethat you're not doing a bad
(27:22):
mortgage that's gonna end upexploding on your books.
So you want to do that anyway,right?
You nobody wants a distressedasset on the books.
Okay, so this is just somethingthat you should do anyway,
because nobody wants toindemnify anything and nobody
wants to have to put anything onthe auction block as a
distressed property.
So you should want to put themin the best situation anyway.
(27:45):
From the actual salesperspective, you know, even if
it takes them a little bit, youknow, a little bit of time in
order to restructure the debt,clean themselves off, get the
hair off of the deal before theycome back.
If you can't make a sale, make afriend.
I mean, at the end of the day,if you do that, guess what?
They might not be ready, butthey're like, I had the best
experience with my mortgageperson, their neighbor or their
(28:08):
boss or whoever might be readyto buy.
Or they might be ready torefinance and they can say, you
know what?
Peter gave me some amazinginformation and he's he didn't,
he's not even getting paid on mydeal right now, but he took the
time to talk to me.
I trust him and I feel good.
You should give him a call.
Because if he's willing to workwith me and he doesn't know if
(28:30):
or when he's gonna get paid onmy deal, I know that you who are
in a financially sound position,he can get you in and out with
no problem.
And I trust him.
Like it's so it makes goodbusiness sense to be uh
relationship driven and nottransactional anyway.
Um, that's how you keep apipeline going.
That's how you have strongreputations in communities, but
(28:52):
that's how you eat, and that'show you keep the lights on at
the organization that you're orthe shop that you're working in.
SPEAKER_03 (29:00):
Brand reputation is becoming more and more
important.
And part of that brand is theindividuals within the
organization.
And if and if you could show ahigher standard, people will
come back.
SPEAKER_01 (29:15):
And it raises the standard for your neighbor.
If we're complaining about thesentiment among the industry,
you know, if you start to seethat the yard next to you is cut
and manicured, and you've gotflowers in the bed, but you've
got a car sitting on centerblocks, broken light bulbs on
(29:37):
the porch, you know, patches inthe grass, there's going to be
pressure on you to pull out thelawnmower, to pull the weeds
out, to change the light bulb onyour porch.
So I think that rising tidesfloat off boats.
You do what you're supposed todo.
There's a natural inclinationfor people to want to do better.
(29:58):
And even if they don't want todo it themselves, themselves,
the competition is going to pushthem in that way in order to do
better.
And I think that that is whatwill improve the quality of what
we're kind of seeing in the waythat people are being treated in
the industry.
And again, you know, howdifferent players in the space
engage.
I think it just needs to be agreater level of empathy and
(30:22):
human care and contact thatneeds to happen.
And somebody's got to be thespark plug for that.
SPEAKER_03 (30:27):
Yeah, I love that.
All right.
So we we need to starttransitioning to the second
segment.
But before we do, two questions,two final questions.
Okay.
And then we'll pivot.
All right.
So if you are, I want you topretend as though you know this
this podcast is an open updatefor everyone to listen to.
(30:49):
I want I want you to addressthis specifically to the credit
union listeners.
SPEAKER_02 (30:54):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (30:54):
And this is going to be your like your final
thoughts.
SPEAKER_02 (30:57):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (30:58):
Why does it why does this matter so deeply and why
should they make that pivot toreally focusing on helping as
many families as they possiblycan?
SPEAKER_01 (31:12):
Oh, it's huge.
I think um the economy relies onit.
If it does not happen from themortgage perspective, we
understand what happens whenthings are good in the mortgage
industry.
Everything excels, everythingflourishes.
If we have a hole in the actualfinancial system for mortgages,
(31:37):
the bottom falls out.
There is no way that any otherindustry in the economy can
survive if mortgages fail.
And I go back to the point thatcredit unions are location and
community-based.
They independently represent thecommunities that they serve.
(31:57):
That is the model that it'sbuilt on.
So there is an opportunity tocookie-cut your approach, your
business model to the folks thatyou serve.
There is no greater autonomy inthe financial industry than
those of credit unions.
There is a huge latitude that'sthere in order to support the
(32:18):
customers that the credit unionsserve.
So what I say is this I thinkthat that is the, you know, the
canary in the coal mine, is thatif for some reason there's a
weakness or deficiency in thecredit union space, that is
usually going to be a tale ofwhat the rest of the economy and
the other financial institutionswill experience.
(32:40):
So I think that it's reallyimportant that right now, this
is the time to ground yourselvesin the communities that you
serve.
Open up, whether it's on aSaturday, whether it's on a
Friday, if you want to have sometype of farmer's market,
whatever it is, open up yourdoors for family day.
Do something to invite peopleinto your building.
(33:03):
Let them talk to you about thethings that they're experiencing
because it's very easy for us toanecdotally create things
without having realconversations, to push down what
you think people should haveinstead of asking them for what
they need.
And I think that this is aperfect opportunity right now
for credit unions to do that.
And I absolutely believe thatthe sovereignty of the housing
(33:27):
market, no pressure here, canliterally rest at the heels of
what credit unions do and howengaged uh you all are uh with
the communities that you serve.
SPEAKER_03 (33:40):
Great answer.
Great answer.
All right.
Real final question before wepivot.
And it ties back to everythingwe've already talked about, but
I still have to ask thisquestion.
SPEAKER_02 (33:51):
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (33:52):
What motivates you?
What keeps you going?
You're like everyone else.
You take one foot out of bed inthe morning and then you get
your day started and you justkeep pushing forward.
What keeps you pushing forward?
SPEAKER_01 (34:07):
You know what?
Um, I'm a big crybaby, Peter.
Anybody who knows me well knowsthat I cry at the drop of a hat,
right?
Um, I can get in front of a roomof people, and it could be 2,000
people that I'm talking to, andI will start to talk about my
time housing count in housingcounseling.
I can talk about the storiesthat I heard during the
(34:28):
pandemic.
I can talk about the first timethat somebody said to me, you
know, thank you so much forworking on that student loan
debt policy.
I was able to buy a house whenI've been told for five years
that I couldn't, and now I havea roof for my new baby and my
wife.
Like, and then I cry when I tellthat story.
Um what keeps me going is thefact that people now know that
(34:53):
there is someone who has been inthe seats that I've been in that
will cry for them.
They know that there's someonewho has shaped policy, who went
to their community in eithergood, bad, hopefully for good,
that um that we had aconversation and that they left
(35:14):
an impression on me that made mego back to 451 Seventh Street,
Southwest in Washington, D.C.
and said, you know what, we needto fix this problem.
And that was something that wasa priority to former Secretary
Fudge.
She said, the work is gonna getdone.
She said, but the way that wewill do it is with kindness,
(35:35):
because when you treat peoplewith kindness, people will want
to help you.
It's easy to create a coalitionwhen you're moving in the right
spirit of um stewardship andmaking sure that people are not
hurting unnecessarily.
And if there is something thatyou can do, you do it and you
don't defer it to somebody elseor defer it to tomorrow.
(35:58):
So you ask me what makes me getup is because now um I've
created an expectation of thepeople who know me to get up.
And uh there have been somedifficult days uh and
disappointing days that I'veseen uh in the in the last few
months.
But the same reason why I raisedmy hand and was sworn in to
(36:20):
serve in June of 21 is the samereason why I continue to get up
today.
SPEAKER_03 (36:26):
Best answer, yeah.
Hands down.
Best answer, yeah.
Best answer, yeah.
I love that was fantastic.
Good job.
All right, awesome.
I don't even know where to go.
I don't even know where to gofrom here now.
SPEAKER_01 (36:39):
Um all the feels that's right.
SPEAKER_03 (36:42):
All the and you you you started a little teary
either for a second.
SPEAKER_01 (36:45):
I felt it.
I felt it.
You did, okay.
SPEAKER_03 (36:48):
It did.
SPEAKER_01 (36:48):
So all right, bring it down.
SPEAKER_03 (36:50):
Although this is all this is audio, I can contest.
SPEAKER_01 (36:53):
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_03 (36:54):
That that that Julian was starting to you know
tear up a little bit with thatpassion.
I love it.
All right, so Julian, we need tostart pivoting.
All right, so as a reminder,this is where we sometimes do
dad jokes, sometimes we playJeopardy, and okay.
I hinted at it, we're playingJeopardy today, so bear with me
while I bring in my Jeopardyboard.
Now, Julian, one of my favoriteholidays is Halloween.
(37:19):
And so we are gonna playHalloween Jeopardy.
So please allow me to describethe board that's on the screen
before I kind of walk into it.
So on my screen, of course, thisis all audio, so no one can see
this besides Julian and Justin.
But on my screen is a standardJeopardy board ranging from
points from 100 to 500.
(37:40):
There are five categories.
The categories are Halloweenmovies, Halloween, Halloween
treats, Halloween monsters, andanother Halloween.
Um, for the record, I did notmake this.
Um, I always just put thatdisclaimer on there.
I don't know what the answersare, I don't know anything about
(38:02):
this.
Um, admittedly, I was runningreally late, so I kind of just
googled Halloween.
And so who who knows?
Who knows what this is gonna be?
All right, so okay.
I I've kind of painted thepicture.
Julian, for the sake of this,you're team one, Justin's team
two.
Um, you do not have to answerwho is, what is, etc., etc.,
(38:24):
etc.
SPEAKER_02 (38:24):
You just blurt it out.
SPEAKER_03 (38:26):
Also, when you pick the question, it's your question
to answer.
There's no stealing now.
Unless Justin, unless you get itwrong, I will give Justin an
opportunity to steal, or viceversa.
But if you get that wrong, Ideduct points.
So all right, Julian, you arethe honored guests.
You get to go first.
SPEAKER_01 (38:48):
All right, let's go ahead.
I'm going the Halloween treatsfor 300.
Let's break it up in the middlehere.
SPEAKER_03 (38:53):
Halloween treats 300.
What's the popular chocolateHalloween candy that means to
laugh?
unknown (39:02):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01 (39:05):
What's the popular chocolate Halloween candy that
means to laugh?
What in the world?
SPEAKER_03 (39:12):
To laugh.
SPEAKER_01 (39:14):
Peter, you picked these questions?
SPEAKER_03 (39:16):
I did not pick these questions.
SPEAKER_01 (39:18):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03 (39:19):
That means to laugh.
SPEAKER_01 (39:23):
I I'm I'm stumped, and I don't know if it's because
I don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (39:26):
By the way, if you say you don't know, I don't
know.
Nothing happens.
SPEAKER_01 (39:30):
Okay, I don't know.
Justin, did you create thesequestions?
SPEAKER_04 (39:33):
Uh absolutely not.
No, Peter, Peter, I think,secretly does this in his
abundant free time and likes tothink of ways to how uh Justin's
never gonna get triggered uhJeopardy correct.
So no, I did not make this.
What is it, Justin?
Why do I have to guess?
SPEAKER_03 (39:50):
I don't know.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (39:51):
Well, the correct answer is Snickers of their dad
joke.
Oh, Justin.
SPEAKER_04 (40:02):
See, and I was thinking like Rolo, like I was
thinking Rolo's too.
Yeah, I was just like, you know,some something out like Rolo,
like laughing.
SPEAKER_01 (40:11):
But I wasn't gonna guess that because I knew that
was I have to calibrate my brainfor dad jokes now.
SPEAKER_03 (40:16):
I wasn't it it's not it's not gonna be all dad jokes.
Not gonna be all dad jokes.
At least I don't think so.
SPEAKER_01 (40:21):
That's a good one, though.
SPEAKER_03 (40:22):
Okay, Justin, you're up.
Halloween movies for 100.
Halloween movies for 100.
Casper is a friendly what?
Ghost.
SPEAKER_01 (40:36):
What?
I get the dad joke and you getCasper.
Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_03 (40:40):
The correct answer is Ghost.
SPEAKER_04 (40:46):
On the board positively.
All right, Julian.
SPEAKER_01 (40:52):
All right, I'm not gonna shoot ahead of my skis
again.
So let's do Halloween for 100,the second column, not the
fifth.
So how about we go?
SPEAKER_03 (41:02):
Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_01 (41:03):
There we go.
SPEAKER_03 (41:04):
Who are you gonna call?
SPEAKER_01 (41:06):
I don't know.
Ghostbusters.
Who are you gonna call?
We're aging ourselves here.
SPEAKER_03 (41:16):
The correct answer is Ghostbusters.
You are gonna call Ghostbusters.
SPEAKER_02 (41:22):
Good job, oh Justin.
SPEAKER_04 (41:28):
All right, let's let's we'll go negative here.
So we'll go Halloween monstersfor 200.
Halloween monsters 200.
SPEAKER_03 (41:37):
The ancient creature sewn together from corpse parts
and and sparked to life is bothtragic and terrifying.
SPEAKER_02 (41:49):
Frankenstein.
The correct answer isFrankenstein.
SPEAKER_03 (41:58):
Good job, Justin.
SPEAKER_01 (42:00):
All right.
SPEAKER_03 (42:01):
All right, Julian.
SPEAKER_01 (42:02):
So my goal is to at least meet or beat where Justin
is.
So if he does 200, I'm gonna doa 200er.
Okay, let's do uh Halloweentreats for 200.
SPEAKER_03 (42:14):
Halloween treats 200.
What rainbow candy sells overthree million pounds every
Halloween?
SPEAKER_01 (42:22):
Would that be MM's?
No.
SPEAKER_03 (42:28):
All right, Justin, you want to steal?
SPEAKER_01 (42:30):
Oh my god, really?
SPEAKER_03 (42:31):
Skittles.
SPEAKER_01 (42:32):
Wait a minute.
Listen, hold on.
I love, I know it tastes therainbow, but like I never
associate Skittles withHalloween ever.
SPEAKER_04 (42:43):
Well, neither do I.
It's just the rainbow.
SPEAKER_01 (42:46):
I mean the correct answer is.
I thought that, and I thought itwas Skittles, but I just never
associate Julian.
I mean, listen, you know what?
SPEAKER_03 (42:57):
Look at Justin winning.
SPEAKER_01 (42:59):
Okay, I'm coming back.
All right, I'm coming back.
I'm stretching now.
This is and I'm sorry, guys.
I didn't have my coffee today.
SPEAKER_04 (43:06):
Man, I have enough points to go for go for a big
one here.
All right, let's go.
Yeah, do that.
Halloween monsters for 500.
SPEAKER_03 (43:14):
Halloween monsters for 500.
A silent figure in a white maskstalks his victims uh
relentlessly in a long-runninghorror film franchise.
SPEAKER_04 (43:26):
Yep, haunted me all through my childhood.
That's Jason.
unknown (43:30):
Gosh!
SPEAKER_04 (43:30):
Oh wait, that could also be Michael.
No, no, it's Jason.
I don't care.
Both of those people haunted methrough my childhood.
So it's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (43:41):
Listen, I would say scream.
SPEAKER_04 (43:43):
Oh, that's a good one, too.
The correct answer.
You know what?
This is an unfair question.
Michael Myers.
We just identified three peoplewith white masks.
SPEAKER_01 (43:53):
See what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_04 (43:54):
Well, sorry.
See, this is how I told you, hemakes these questions.
SPEAKER_01 (43:58):
It could be Joan Crawford from Mommy Dear it.
She wore three white masks.
SPEAKER_04 (44:03):
And Julian, and Julian didn't answer that
question.
She didn't say I'm stealing.
She said something didn't.
That wasn't a real answer.
All right, fine.
Don't be mean to her like that.
Come on.
I won't.
I got you, Miss Julian.
Don't worry.
All right.
SPEAKER_01 (44:19):
Thank you so much, Jeff.
Julie.
Well, there's a will, there's aJ.
I'm sticking it up over here.
All right.
Let's do Halloween treats for500, even though I've been
unsuccessful.
I gotta catch it.
SPEAKER_03 (44:31):
Halloween treats, 500.
Often found in trick-or-treatbags.
These colorful sugar-coatedchocolate candies melt in your
mouth, not your hand.
SPEAKER_01 (44:40):
I'm going to press repeat and say MMs, Peter.
SPEAKER_03 (44:45):
Alright, the correct answer is MMs.
SPEAKER_01 (44:50):
Raleigh.
Raleigh.
SPEAKER_04 (44:53):
Alright, Justin.
Halloween movies or 500.
SPEAKER_03 (44:59):
Halloween movies?
500.
What is the name of the townwhere the nightmare before
Christmas takes place?
SPEAKER_02 (45:12):
That's a really good question.
SPEAKER_04 (45:17):
We're gonna go with Halloween.
I mean, that's the only thing Ican think of.
They keep screaming, this isHalloween.
SPEAKER_03 (45:26):
This is that's all that's I mean.
That's gotta be Halloween.
That was very Julian, do youwant to steal?
SPEAKER_01 (45:32):
Um, is it Christmas Town?
SPEAKER_03 (45:40):
Halloween town.
SPEAKER_01 (45:41):
But then why did you ask me to steal?
You're totally right.
SPEAKER_03 (45:45):
You were not right.
You just said Halloween.
SPEAKER_01 (45:47):
That is right.
I was thinking that it wasChristmas Town and because I
said Halloween.
SPEAKER_03 (45:53):
You just said Halloween.
You missed the important part.
See this, see this, see this?
What's this word?
What's this word?
T-O-W-N.
SPEAKER_04 (46:03):
It's identified in the name of the question that
it's a town.
Nope, Halloween town.
SPEAKER_01 (46:10):
Oh the designation.
Here go those zoning problems.
It could have been a township ora city, Justin.
SPEAKER_03 (46:18):
Seriously.
Could have been Halloween, itcould have been Halloweenville.
That would have been a totallydifferent answer.
Nope.
All right.
All right.
All right.
Last round.
Last round.
Julian.
SPEAKER_04 (46:32):
All right.
All right.
I thought Julian, I thought shegot it wrong that time.
No, she didn't.
SPEAKER_01 (46:39):
Okay.
We're now in the octagon.
I'm gonna do Halloween for 500,far right column.
SPEAKER_03 (46:46):
Far right column, Halloween 500.
What does the word Halloweencome from?
SPEAKER_04 (46:52):
Are you kidding me?
SPEAKER_01 (46:56):
Hollowed?
The word to be reverent?
I mean, how how deep are wesupposed to go here?
SPEAKER_03 (47:08):
I mean Justin, you want to see him?
No.
SPEAKER_01 (47:19):
Are you trying to get points here?
SPEAKER_03 (47:22):
No.
I know I mean, I know it's allHollows Eve.
No, that's the night beforeHalloween, I thought.
I don't know.
Correct answer is known as AllHollows Eve.
SPEAKER_01 (47:43):
I really listen, this is why I stick to mortgages
and not holidays.
SPEAKER_03 (47:50):
I hate when I'm right.
SPEAKER_01 (47:53):
I'm sorry, guys.
I'm just gonna fuck it up here.
SPEAKER_03 (47:57):
Right.
Um that was Julian's question,right?
Yeah.
All right.
Justin?
Is this our last question?
This is the very last question.
Oh man.
And and just I apologize, Ihaven't done this.
We currently have scores ofJulian with negative 100 and
(48:17):
Justin with negative 500.
SPEAKER_01 (48:19):
Wow.
How is this even pop?
Okay, I'm not gonna.
SPEAKER_04 (48:23):
Oh no, this is a normal score for me, actually.
It's no, his is more likenegative 2000.
Yeah, this is also true.
So I'm actually doing prettygood today.
I got one right.
I'm gonna go with Halloween, thefirst column, the second column
for 500.
I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, that one.
The fact that there's twoHalloween.
(48:44):
Where is the biggest Halloweenparade?
Is Halloween an Americanholiday?
No.
There we go.
That helps me a lot.
I wasn't sure about it.
(49:05):
See now the whole world's ouroyster.
Let's see.
Germany.
You're saying where in Germany?
No, it just says yeah, Germany.
You're saying Germany.
Germany is a location.
SPEAKER_03 (49:21):
I know it's a location, but where in Germany?
SPEAKER_04 (49:25):
I don't know that you uh I mean it see you're just
gonna mark me wrong if I'm notsuper specific and it wants to
find just say German.
SPEAKER_03 (49:31):
Germany's fine.
Julian, do you want to steal?
SPEAKER_01 (49:33):
I mean, are we uh do we have is it the world or are
we talking in the United States?
Like what are we talking about?
SPEAKER_03 (49:38):
I'm I'm guessing the world.
Well, you're winning right now.
You could just say I I don'twant to answer, and you could
still win.
SPEAKER_01 (49:46):
I could, but I would lose right, because I would lose
my push because he's already gotit wrong.
I'm gonna take a stab in thedark.
SPEAKER_04 (49:53):
Because I didn't get it wrong.
SPEAKER_01 (49:56):
Oh, you didn't?
SPEAKER_04 (49:57):
I don't know yet.
He doesn't know.
He doesn't know yet.
SPEAKER_01 (50:00):
Oh gosh.
So see, there's the pressure Ihave to answer because if he
gets it right, then he's likegonna beat me, right?
He'll be a zero.
SPEAKER_03 (50:07):
I mean, even even if you get them both good wrong and
you still win.
SPEAKER_01 (50:10):
All right.
I'm just gonna say, I'm gonnathrow it out there, and I'm
gonna stick with the UnitedStates, and I'm gonna say New
York City, and I'm gonna gothere.
SPEAKER_03 (50:19):
Okay.
All right, I'm I'm gonna chimein on this too.
I'm gonna say Salem Mass.
unknown (50:23):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (50:24):
Correct answer is.
Oh, that's a good one.
New York!
SPEAKER_01 (50:32):
And can I just say the only reason I know this is
because I was on IG and somebodywas posting about it.
SPEAKER_03 (50:41):
All right.
At the end of how many rounds wewe played, the final score is
Julian with positive 400 andJustin negative 1,000.
Now that's a score I like to seefor Justin.
SPEAKER_01 (50:55):
Even a broke clock is right twice a day.
SPEAKER_03 (50:59):
That's right.
Well, Julian, that was awesome.
Congratulations for being thisepisode's winner of Halloween on
point Jeopardy.
SPEAKER_02 (51:09):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (51:10):
And by the way, Julian, really do appreciate
everything that you do for ourindustry, our association.
Really enjoyed the conversation.
And again, thank you so much forbeing on today.
SPEAKER_01 (51:18):
I appreciate it.
Thanks, everybody, and thanks toyour listeners.
And you guys are the absolutebest.
Thank you for all of thewonderful work that you do.
Um, as a former uh uh, you know,administration official, I can't
underscore or overstate too muchuh how valuable this partnership
has been.
So thank you so much to Peterand Team Acuma.
(51:39):
You guys are the best.
SPEAKER_03 (51:40):
Of course.
And Justin, thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (51:55):
Thanks for listening.
We'll see you next time at theAcuma on Point Podcast.
If not already, be sure tosubscribe and give us a five
star rating.
For more great episodes andinformation, be sure to visit us
online at Acuma.org.
And to get the latest updates,head over to our LinkedIn page.
The views and opinions expressed in this
podcast do not necessarilyreflect the views or positions
of Acuma, its board ofdirectors, its management staff,
or its members.
The podcast discussion presentedis conversational in nature and
for general information only.
SPEAKER_03 (00:27):
This is ACMA's OnPoy Podcast.
On today's episode, we'll diveinto the human side of housing
and homeownership.
Ladies and gentlemen, boys andgirls, welcome to ACMA's OnPoy
Podcast, a series of folksmensharing the stories of people
who are making a positive impactin the credit union mortgage
(00:48):
industry.
I'm your host, Peter Benjamin.
Today I am joined by JulianJoseph, founder and principal of
JYJ Consulting LLC.
Julian.
Hey.
What is going on?
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
Listen, you know what?
This is another day in thehousing finance industry, you
know, just letting the grassgrow under our feet.
Nothing to talk about here.
SPEAKER_03 (01:10):
That's right.
But letting the grass grow underour feet.
I love that.
Now, it Julian, like I said, Iwe gotta, I'm actually, I hate
to say actually, becauseactually always has negative
connotations.
But ever since you propose thistopic, you know, the human side
of housing, I couldn't be moreexcited to have this
(01:33):
conversation with you today.
You know, really, because it wewe can take this in many
different ways, right?
And we often talk about it, butyou know, it's always impacting.
We never really dive into it.
Uh, and so I'm really lookingforward to diving into that idea
of you know, the human side ofhousing and home ownership, you
know, really what motivates us,you know, what motivates you,
(01:55):
you know, the challenges andopportunities in the space, and
why it matters so deeply.
Because I think that last part,you know, why it matters, you
know, we often say it, we putfamilies in homes.
But but let's let's let'sinvestigate that.
Let's let's really jump go intothat a bit more.
Excited for this conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (02:13):
Yeah, that'd be great.
SPEAKER_03 (02:15):
But before we get to it, as always, gotta bring
Justin to the conversation togive us the latest and greatest
happening over at because theHawk.
What's going on?
SPEAKER_04 (02:23):
What is the latest and greatest happening over at
well over here at Acma, we arecoming back for manual, so we're
all sort of in recovery mode,but we're rocking and rolling.
We're still asleep.
What is sleep again?
I don't know.
That thing that escapes all ofus.
(02:44):
Yeah, that's true.
Um well, uh just because all ofour in-person events have
finished for the year, I knowthere's some sad violin music
playing somewhere.
That doesn't mean that we areout of the weeds of events with
Acuma.
Uh, we actually, and I hate thatword as well, but we do have an
event coming up tomorrow.
It is our uh marketing networkmeeting.
(03:05):
So if you haven't registered andyou're looking to learn some new
marketing tips and tricks, comejoin me and some of the
co-chairs uh as we have ourcourt our Q4 meeting.
Um then next week we'll have ourservicing network meeting.
So again, if you're in theservicing space or just want to
learn more about mortgages andservicing, then that's the place
(03:26):
for you to be.
Um other than that, we have ourinside tracks going on all year
round and our favorite on-pointpodcast.
SPEAKER_03 (03:35):
And I would be you know remiss if I if I didn't say
that you know, outside of theevents, outside of everything
that we're working on, uh I feelas though we we should probably
mention you know the the twoopen board positions, right?
Oh, absolutely.
Or three, three, three.
It's three, three.
SPEAKER_04 (03:51):
Oh three, and that was announced at annual um at
the end of the conference,actually.
So that's right.
SPEAKER_03 (03:57):
That's right.
So again, there's that word ifyou're listening and and you're
part of the credit unionmovement.
Um, we currently have threeboard positions open, so be on
the lookout for more to come onthat.
But just if you're interested,feel free to shoot me an email
and uh we'll get you in contactwith the powers that be.
But, anyways, enough of Acuma.
(04:17):
Justin, thank you very much.
Of course.
All right, Julian.
All right, so yeah.
That's a game on.
All right, so first thingsfirst.
Like, so I I already we wetalked about the topic, we
teased the topic, but before weget to it, we always start with
the same question, we always endwith the same question.
(04:39):
So we're we're not gonna go awayfrom that.
We're gonna stick to that thatformat.
But I I think now more thanever, and I'm doing a long intro
to the first question.
Now more than ever, I think thisuh question tees up our
conversation quite nicely.
And the last question reallyencompasses today's conversation
(05:04):
as well.
So, but we'll get to that.
So, first question is you know,who is Julian Joseph?
And and you can take that aspersonal or as professional as
you want.
You can lead us down whateverrabbit hole that you want to,
but that is the first question.
Who is Julia Joseph?
SPEAKER_01 (05:22):
Ah, well, first of all, thanks for having me, guys.
I'm so happy to be here.
You guys are absolutely myfavorite group of people.
Um, so thanks for uh for havingme today.
Where do I start?
Who is Julian Joseph?
I'm a lover of people.
And I think uh, you know, I comefrom two parents who were
educators, uh lifelongeducators.
(05:44):
Uh, they are also folks whobelieve in mission and
strengthening communities andleaving people better than they
found them.
So, you know, my mom is anordained minister, my father is
also a deacon uh at theirchurch, and I come from a family
of people who uh lean into ahigher power in order to be the
(06:08):
best version of themselves.
So um, who is Julian?
She's somebody who is justtrying to leave people better
than she found them.
That's who I am.
SPEAKER_03 (06:19):
I love that.
Love, love, love, love, lovethat.
That was awesome.
That was awesome.
All right, so let's go into theconversation.
So the conversation is reallygonna be centered around, you
know, the human factor of or thehuman side of housing and
homeownership.
And I and I'm gonna expand onwhat I said earlier and why I
love this so much.
(06:39):
And if I if it's okay, I'll giveyou I'm gonna give you a little
short story.
And this is about you, but it'snot about me, but I'm gonna give
you a short story.
Okay.
Pandemic.
Um painting the picture, thepandemic.
It's all about refinances, it'sall about you know closing more
loans, right?
And that that's really, youknow, outside of uh of
(07:00):
everything that happened in thepandemic, the mortgage business
was rocking, right?
Volume like we never saw.
Now, I'm gonna add to this, I'mgonna sidestep.
About 15, maybe 20 years ago, amentor of mine told me our job
is simple.
(07:21):
We put families in homes.
And and and that that that sunkwith me.
It hit me to my core.
And I promised myself, okay,well, if I ever lose sight of
that, we put families in homes,I'll either do one of two
things, make a transition tosomething that ignites that
passion again, or open my ownbrewery.
SPEAKER_01 (07:45):
I love it.
SPEAKER_03 (07:46):
I know, right?
Totally two different things,but the same thing.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (07:51):
Pandemic.
I lost that site.
I lost the I I started focusingon the numbers.
I started only thinking about weall right, last month we broke a
record.
Can we break another record?
We broke another record, can webreak another record?
Can we close more loans?
Um, and it wasn't even about themoney, it was just the numbers,
right?
I didn't focus on the people,right?
(08:14):
I didn't focus on, hey, we'rehelping someone.
We're we're actually doing that.
And so that's why I've made thattransition to acumen.
So that's why this conversationtoday hits a home for me,
because all too often we can eatthis is this this this is a
message that we can easily losesight of of families and homes
(08:36):
and the higher purpose, thehuman side.
But if we think back to the thefinancial crisis, you know, or
the Great Recession, whateveryou want to frame it up as.
The human side was never eventhought of, never even
considered in the majority ofthe decisions that were being
(08:56):
made.
And so I'm a firm believer if ifif you don't learn from your
mistakes, you're going to repeatthem.
So let's have this conversation,Julian, the human side.
So provide me your perspective.
I mean, obviously this issomething that you've dedicated
your life to, you've seen greatsuccess to, you've been part of
(09:17):
the administration, you know,the the past administration with
FHA.
Uh you're over at MBA with theMortgage Makers Association.
I mean, you uh have made acareer and you you've
originated, you've made a careerof this helping people get into
house.
And so for you, you know walk methrough the human side, walk me
(09:42):
through what motivates you.
And and and uh let's let's focuson those two things, like the
human side and what motivatesyou, and we'll get to the other
parts of the challenges and whyit matters in a little bit
later.
SPEAKER_01 (09:53):
Yeah, you teed it up perfectly, Peter, um, by
mentioning the housing crisis.
Uh that is where I establishedmy North Star for this work.
Um, prior to that, I hadoriginated and, you know, was a
practitioner.
And uh, of course, you know,that impacted everybody once the
bottom fell out.
Uh, but I knew that I didn'twant to stray too far from
(10:14):
housing, and I knew that themarket would rebound at some
point.
So that's when I went to theneighborhood housing services of
Baltimore and decided to be aforeclosure cross a foreclosure
counselor there, uh, which wasground zero for the housing
crisis.
And I mean, ultimately sawpeople at their very, very
(10:36):
worst.
I mean, I'm telling you, peoplewho would send in pictures of
their children saying, pleasedon't let them take my house.
There were people who were insituations where, you know, at
the before the housing crisishappened, there were two incomes
in the family, and then all of asudden you're down to one.
(10:57):
And then you have a, you know, ahusband or a wife saying, Hey,
honey, don't worry about it.
I'll shoulder it, I'll figure itout myself, don't worry.
And then it's a robbing Peter topay Paul in order to figure out
how to just keep things in themiddle of the road, and then
ultimately, you know, thatcatches up with you.
And I know of people whoactually gave up.
(11:20):
And when I say gave up, theyultimately gave up to the point
now that their kids only haveone parent.
So it was intense, you know whatI mean?
And to see people begging tokeep the roof over their head,
um put that fire in me, notknowing what the trajectory of
(11:41):
my career would be.
But I saw what happens whenpeople make bad policy.
And I promised myself if I wereever in a position to write
policy or anything that I wouldput my hand to, uh, it would
never leave people that way.
And, you know, from 2010 on,that's been the fire in my
(12:03):
belly.
Um, and it not even knowing thatthat would be my training ground
for what I was going to betasked with doing when joining
the administration to solve forFHA's issue with the pandemic.
So my why started as a housingcounselor helping people with
foreclosure 2010 after thehousing crisis in Baltimore.
SPEAKER_03 (12:27):
Well, I mean, I I don't know how to follow that
up, but you know, so it sohonestly that's that's what
motivates you, right?
So that that's that's the fuelbehind your passion and and why
you are on this mission to helpand educate as many people as
you possibly can.
And I see it whenever you talk,I I see it when uh I feel it
(12:52):
when we're in person that thatyou that you just want to help
and you want to be part of it.
So I guess the question isobviously you know, you you
mentioned bad policy, but it'snot just bad policy, it's you
know, it can also be badpractice and greed that lends to
it.
SPEAKER_02 (13:12):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (13:14):
I I guess for me, you know, the the question
really is going to be how how dowe I'm not gonna call it say
right now we're in the middle ofa housing pandemic.
I because I don't want to callit that, right?
But becoming a homeowner isbecoming more difficult.
(13:37):
Um, the cost of things you couldeasily argue is making making it
more difficult for people tosustain homeownership.
Right.
How do we as an industryremember that in either A, well,
maybe it's both, not either, butbut help people achieve this
(13:58):
this uh what we know as theAmerican dream, what's supposed
to be the American dream.
SPEAKER_02 (14:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:04):
But on the flip side, that how can we as an
industry with things uh withinterest rates kind of
plateauing?
I mean, they're never gonna goback to three percent.
We we I think we all can agreethat, right?
Yeah.
We'll say it's plateauing at sixand seven.
SPEAKER_02 (14:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:17):
But everything else is increasing.
Insurance, uh, just the generalcost of food.
I mean, you gotta you gotta eat.
Yeah.
How do we as an industryremember the human side and help
as many people as we possiblycan?
SPEAKER_01 (14:31):
Yeah, it's an empathy thing.
And I think that we are, youknow, in a time and in a season
of survival.
And with survival can come uhthe spirit of apathy.
And I think that, you know,people are dealing with a whole
lot of stuff right now.
I mean, there are a lot offactors and variables.
(14:51):
The age of the first-time homebuyer is somewhere around 38
right now.
You know, it's it's there's awhole lot of stigma that lives
there around homeownership.
Um the first thing that I didwhen I set foot in FHA as the
deputy assistant secretary ofsingle-family housing, I had a
big dry race board in my in myoffice.
(15:13):
And the first thing that I wroteup there was every decision you
make in this office will impactgenerations.
I had that on my board.
I looked at it every morning andI remembered the reason why I
was doing what I was doing.
And um, yes, to your point, it'snot just bad policy, but it can
(15:33):
be bad intentions.
It can be the lack of intentionthat can that can end up having
devastating uh consequences.
Um, how do we solve for this?
Um, it takes a village in orderto do this.
I think that this is now morethan ever the time where there's
silos in the industry that haveto be torn down and destroyed.
(15:56):
There are conversations, toughconversations that need to be
had amongst different corners ofthe housing ecosystem.
Uh, it's gonna take everybodyright now.
And I think that as we see uhsome challenges in the spaces
that we used to rely on in orderto make sure that homeownership
(16:17):
was on the table for a lot ofpeople, we see those things
being rolled back.
So, what does that look like?
Okay, well, we know that youknow down payment assistance on
the federal level is beingchallenged right now, right?
We know that there are a lot ofcommunities, black, brown, you
know, white, you name it,underserved, that need money to
get into a house.
I mean, it is what it is.
(16:38):
Oftentimes the math just doesn'tmath.
Um, even for the millennialsright now, I'm a Gen Xer.
You know what I mean?
So there are still people thatthis, these are the first
generations that are gainfullyemployed, right?
But just because that's the casedoesn't mean that they've
necessarily had enough time inorder to save to make that
initial investment.
(16:58):
So a lot of times theconversations that we hear, this
is where the empathy comes intoplay.
Well, you know, just because youhave a decent check doesn't mean
that you can necessarily front3.5% already because you've been
in the job for six months or for12 months.
Especially if you're the firstone to break that ceiling to
start making good money in yourfamily.
So this is where that empathyconversation has to come into
(17:22):
play.
Practically, what that lookslike is an 80% AMI can be tough
on down payment assistancebecause there are people who are
now making above that who stillneed down payment assistance at
the 120 to 140 ban of AMI.
I'm here in the DC area and I'mtelling you, there are people
(17:43):
who are making six figures rightnow, but they are living check
to check.
But if you put them on some typeof, you know, if if you're
looking at the actual grid ofwhat they would qualify for for
down payment assistance, theymake too much.
But right now I can tell youthey're eating ramen noodles
every night and bowls of cerealto try to make it, right?
So I think that there needs tobe um very candid conversation
(18:07):
to um present the stories to thepolicymakers right now so they
understand that while on paperit looks like people are doing
well, but life life, it happens.
You know what I mean?
People get sick, people losejobs, shutdowns happen, you
know, there are issues that areunforeseen, pandemics happen.
(18:28):
So I think that there needs tobe a broader conversation that
adds additional color so peoplecan understand the spectrum of
the lives that these people areliving and make sure that they
create policy that accounts forthat.
SPEAKER_03 (18:43):
I mean, and right.
I mean you listed so manyamazing challenges, right?
And and we could we can easilyadd to it, right?
That and you're just you knowreally, you know, don't that's
just the tip of the iceberg.
I mean, we give if we even focuson you know construction and and
how builders aren't buildingwhat's considered affordable
(19:05):
housing.
Granted, what does affordablehousing look like, but they're
not building those houses thataren't targeted for the upper
middle class to those onepercenters, right?
They're they're not buildingsomething that's realistic for
the average income earner to toto purchase in that geographic
area.
They're just not.
SPEAKER_02 (19:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (19:24):
You know, and this you know, if there's two fun
fundamental needs that everyperson has, it's it's it's it's
the need, the need to eat andthe need for shelter, right?
Those are the those are the twofundamental things.
And right now, you could easilyargue that uh both of those
things are are are in jeopardybecause of everything happening,
(19:47):
right?
SPEAKER_02 (19:48):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (19:49):
And you know, we saw it in the pan uh and I don't I I
can't I keep saying you know thethe Great Recession or the
financial crisis, so pleaseforgive me.
SPEAKER_02 (19:57):
No, you're good.
SPEAKER_03 (19:59):
But if you think back, that was the first time in
in history that people opted topay their car loans over their
mortgage, right?
For some strange reason they sayshelter isn't that big of a
deal, my Maserati's moreimportant.
(20:22):
At what point in time do we getto the place where the need to
eat is more important thanhousing or or or vice versa,
because neither of that's ahealthy situation.
Yeah, right.
And and I I I I I still don'tunderstand how we fix it because
(20:44):
as an industry, there's just somuch out of our control.
I mean, yes, we can be a voice,yeah, but it's so much out of
our control.
So I I welcome your thoughts onthis.
How can we fix this?
How can we change this?
I think credit unions areuniquely positioned to help
their communities better thananyone else.
But there has to be a way.
(21:04):
There we have to be able to dosomething, right?
SPEAKER_01 (21:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Um, you know, I mentionedearlier that down payment
assistance is a is definitely athing that has always been one
of the major barriers tohomeownership.
Um, it's time to get creative.
I remember the days when I usedto originate and the rate sheets
came out at noon and they werelike, or you know, there's they
slide them on days.
(21:29):
They slide them under your doorquietly because they don't know
if you're on the phone orsomething like that.
And you had to price, you know,from par.
Like, you know, am I taking ahit on this deal?
SPEAKER_03 (21:38):
You know, am I and those things were not easy to
read.
SPEAKER_01 (21:41):
They were not easy to hieroglyphic, seriously.
Or, you know, there were nopricing engines, guys.
We were the pricing engine,right?
SPEAKER_03 (21:49):
Grab your calculator.
SPEAKER_01 (21:50):
Grab your calculator, right?
So, okay, you know, in aparticular deal, do I need to
do, you know, to price it overpar in order to get a lender
credit so I can give a kickbackto help with the closing costs
to make it easier for them?
Like those were the types ofthings that you had to do.
You have to say, okay, ifsomebody is getting$25,000 in
(22:11):
down payment assistance, does itmake more sense to be creative
and structure it?
That, hey, do I put half of thison principal reduction?
Do I take a piece of this inorder, you know, to pay points
so that they have a lower, youknow, interest rate and more
affordable payment for the lifeof the loan?
Like there are times that, youknow, the industry has to start
(22:32):
to tinker with things.
It's a Rubik's Cube again.
It's no longer they come in with$25,000 and you're like, okay,
just dump it on the principal.
That might not be the smartestway to do it.
And you might need to play.
This means you have to haveconversations with consumer
advocacy groups.
This might mean that you need toreach out to the local employers
to see if they're willing to dosome type of employer-based down
(22:53):
payment assistance.
Do you start working with your,you know, local and city
government and say, hey, look,can we do a matching program?
Do you start working with yourhousing finance agencies to see
if there's an opportunity tolayer there?
Like, you know, the days of Uberdelivering your deal is over.
(23:15):
So, you know, we have to figureout where we can put these
crumbs together in order to makea loaf.
And if we don't do that, we'regonna have a huge issue.
And, you know, at Acima, Imentioned on one of the panels
that another thing that we haveto address is the fact that a
lot of these um young folks whoare entering the housing market
(23:37):
right now or even thinking aboutdipping their toe in it, are the
kids of people who lost theirhouses in 2008.
So there's already some PTSDthat's injected into them in
their DNA that makes them say, Ican't trust the bank, which is
why this is a wonderful spacefor the credit unions because
(23:57):
one thing they know is mom anddad have been with this credit
union forever, and I trust them.
There's a different level ofcredibility that you all have
when engaging, particularly withyounger people, because mom and
dad, grandpa, grandma havealready been there, they've got
a relationship, they've neverbeen burned, you know.
So that so it's a little biteasier to have that
(24:19):
conversation.
So I would say to yourlisteners, to one, keep that in
the back of your mind and knowthat you need to name the thing
because that will go a long way.
And I think the second thing islean into the fact that there is
a gift that you all have bybeing in the credit union
network that comes with someinstant credibility that you can
(24:41):
build upon that a lot of otherfinancial institutions don't
have.
So, my answer to your question,Peter, you got to pull the
pencil out, sharpen it, getcreative, figure out how to
leverage funds to the best ofthe ability that you can, and
use education as a tool toempower so people can feel like,
you know what, there isabsolutely no more juice left in
(25:03):
this squeeze.
And I know that, you know, thisloan officer who just worked
with me, this originator whojust worked with me, did
everything they could to get mymortgage down to the lowest
penny possible.
You do that, and maybe you knowwhat, they're not gonna
necessarily go to Starbucks fourtimes a week, you know, in order
to get their latte because Ireally want the house, right?
(25:24):
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Cut it down in two.
Get an espresso instead, and youknow, instead of going back
three times a day.
So those are the types of thingsI think need to need to start
happening.
SPEAKER_03 (25:35):
I love that.
I I I I really do.
And one of the things that youwere hinting at, but I I I'm
gonna reframe I'm gonna frame itup in a different manner.
SPEAKER_02 (25:46):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (25:47):
You are basically saying the the days of being a
salesperson, just being asalesperson are long gone.
We have to go back and befundamentally financial advisors
and trusted partners for our ourour borrowers, our members, our
(26:07):
communities, whatever you wantto frame it up as, because we
have to go above and beyond tohelp them.
And you know, even if to thepoint of saying, you know, let's
restructure your debt to to makethis more affordable for you and
(26:28):
come back to me in a month, comeback to me in two months, come
back to me in three months, onceall this stuff is kind of paid
off.
Even if so, even if we have todo that as a trusted financial
advisor, that still helps thembe better, right?
We we can't just be salespeople,we can't just be a person
pushing a widget.
We have to be counsels, we haveto be consultants, because that
(26:51):
type of mindset where we'retrying to problem solve, but
also put them in a betterfinancial well-being is really
what's needed nowadays.
SPEAKER_01 (27:01):
Absolutely.
And it's it's smart businesssense because you know, if you
do that level of due diligence,right, you're making sure that
they are having the mostaffordable mortgage possible.
You're potentially talking tothem about restructuring debt.
You know, you're building thatrelationship with them that they
feel like a trusted partner.
So, one, you're gonna make surethat you're not doing a bad
(27:22):
mortgage that's gonna end upexploding on your books.
So you want to do that anyway,right?
You nobody wants a distressedasset on the books.
Okay, so this is just somethingthat you should do anyway,
because nobody wants toindemnify anything and nobody
wants to have to put anything onthe auction block as a
distressed property.
So you should want to put themin the best situation anyway.
(27:45):
From the actual salesperspective, you know, even if
it takes them a little bit, youknow, a little bit of time in
order to restructure the debt,clean themselves off, get the
hair off of the deal before theycome back.
If you can't make a sale, make afriend.
I mean, at the end of the day,if you do that, guess what?
They might not be ready, butthey're like, I had the best
experience with my mortgageperson, their neighbor or their
(28:08):
boss or whoever might be readyto buy.
Or they might be ready torefinance and they can say, you
know what?
Peter gave me some amazinginformation and he's he didn't,
he's not even getting paid on mydeal right now, but he took the
time to talk to me.
I trust him and I feel good.
You should give him a call.
Because if he's willing to workwith me and he doesn't know if
(28:30):
or when he's gonna get paid onmy deal, I know that you who are
in a financially sound position,he can get you in and out with
no problem.
And I trust him.
Like it's so it makes goodbusiness sense to be uh
relationship driven and nottransactional anyway.
Um, that's how you keep apipeline going.
That's how you have strongreputations in communities, but
(28:52):
that's how you eat, and that'show you keep the lights on at
the organization that you're orthe shop that you're working in.
SPEAKER_03 (29:00):
Brand reputation is becoming more and more
important.
And part of that brand is theindividuals within the
organization.
And if and if you could show ahigher standard, people will
come back.
SPEAKER_01 (29:15):
And it raises the standard for your neighbor.
If we're complaining about thesentiment among the industry,
you know, if you start to seethat the yard next to you is cut
and manicured, and you've gotflowers in the bed, but you've
got a car sitting on centerblocks, broken light bulbs on
(29:37):
the porch, you know, patches inthe grass, there's going to be
pressure on you to pull out thelawnmower, to pull the weeds
out, to change the light bulb onyour porch.
So I think that rising tidesfloat off boats.
You do what you're supposed todo.
There's a natural inclinationfor people to want to do better.
(29:58):
And even if they don't want todo it themselves, themselves,
the competition is going to pushthem in that way in order to do
better.
And I think that that is whatwill improve the quality of what
we're kind of seeing in the waythat people are being treated in
the industry.
And again, you know, howdifferent players in the space
engage.
I think it just needs to be agreater level of empathy and
(30:22):
human care and contact thatneeds to happen.
And somebody's got to be thespark plug for that.
SPEAKER_03 (30:27):
Yeah, I love that.
All right.
So we we need to starttransitioning to the second
segment.
But before we do, two questions,two final questions.
Okay.
And then we'll pivot.
All right.
So if you are, I want you topretend as though you know this
this podcast is an open updatefor everyone to listen to.
(30:49):
I want I want you to addressthis specifically to the credit
union listeners.
SPEAKER_02 (30:54):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (30:54):
And this is going to be your like your final
thoughts.
SPEAKER_02 (30:57):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (30:58):
Why does it why does this matter so deeply and why
should they make that pivot toreally focusing on helping as
many families as they possiblycan?
SPEAKER_01 (31:12):
Oh, it's huge.
I think um the economy relies onit.
If it does not happen from themortgage perspective, we
understand what happens whenthings are good in the mortgage
industry.
Everything excels, everythingflourishes.
If we have a hole in the actualfinancial system for mortgages,
(31:37):
the bottom falls out.
There is no way that any otherindustry in the economy can
survive if mortgages fail.
And I go back to the point thatcredit unions are location and
community-based.
They independently represent thecommunities that they serve.
(31:57):
That is the model that it'sbuilt on.
So there is an opportunity tocookie-cut your approach, your
business model to the folks thatyou serve.
There is no greater autonomy inthe financial industry than
those of credit unions.
There is a huge latitude that'sthere in order to support the
(32:18):
customers that the credit unionsserve.
So what I say is this I thinkthat that is the, you know, the
canary in the coal mine, is thatif for some reason there's a
weakness or deficiency in thecredit union space, that is
usually going to be a tale ofwhat the rest of the economy and
the other financial institutionswill experience.
(32:40):
So I think that it's reallyimportant that right now, this
is the time to ground yourselvesin the communities that you
serve.
Open up, whether it's on aSaturday, whether it's on a
Friday, if you want to have sometype of farmer's market,
whatever it is, open up yourdoors for family day.
Do something to invite peopleinto your building.
(33:03):
Let them talk to you about thethings that they're experiencing
because it's very easy for us toanecdotally create things
without having realconversations, to push down what
you think people should haveinstead of asking them for what
they need.
And I think that this is aperfect opportunity right now
for credit unions to do that.
And I absolutely believe thatthe sovereignty of the housing
(33:27):
market, no pressure here, canliterally rest at the heels of
what credit unions do and howengaged uh you all are uh with
the communities that you serve.
SPEAKER_03 (33:40):
Great answer.
Great answer.
All right.
Real final question before wepivot.
And it ties back to everythingwe've already talked about, but
I still have to ask thisquestion.
SPEAKER_02 (33:51):
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (33:52):
What motivates you?
What keeps you going?
You're like everyone else.
You take one foot out of bed inthe morning and then you get
your day started and you justkeep pushing forward.
What keeps you pushing forward?
SPEAKER_01 (34:07):
You know what?
Um, I'm a big crybaby, Peter.
Anybody who knows me well knowsthat I cry at the drop of a hat,
right?
Um, I can get in front of a roomof people, and it could be 2,000
people that I'm talking to, andI will start to talk about my
time housing count in housingcounseling.
I can talk about the storiesthat I heard during the
(34:28):
pandemic.
I can talk about the first timethat somebody said to me, you
know, thank you so much forworking on that student loan
debt policy.
I was able to buy a house whenI've been told for five years
that I couldn't, and now I havea roof for my new baby and my
wife.
Like, and then I cry when I tellthat story.
Um what keeps me going is thefact that people now know that
(34:53):
there is someone who has been inthe seats that I've been in that
will cry for them.
They know that there's someonewho has shaped policy, who went
to their community in eithergood, bad, hopefully for good,
that um that we had aconversation and that they left
(35:14):
an impression on me that made mego back to 451 Seventh Street,
Southwest in Washington, D.C.
and said, you know what, we needto fix this problem.
And that was something that wasa priority to former Secretary
Fudge.
She said, the work is gonna getdone.
She said, but the way that wewill do it is with kindness,
(35:35):
because when you treat peoplewith kindness, people will want
to help you.
It's easy to create a coalitionwhen you're moving in the right
spirit of um stewardship andmaking sure that people are not
hurting unnecessarily.
And if there is something thatyou can do, you do it and you
don't defer it to somebody elseor defer it to tomorrow.
(35:58):
So you ask me what makes me getup is because now um I've
created an expectation of thepeople who know me to get up.
And uh there have been somedifficult days uh and
disappointing days that I'veseen uh in the in the last few
months.
But the same reason why I raisedmy hand and was sworn in to
(36:20):
serve in June of 21 is the samereason why I continue to get up
today.
SPEAKER_03 (36:26):
Best answer, yeah.
Hands down.
Best answer, yeah.
Best answer, yeah.
I love that was fantastic.
Good job.
All right, awesome.
I don't even know where to go.
I don't even know where to gofrom here now.
SPEAKER_01 (36:39):
Um all the feels that's right.
SPEAKER_03 (36:42):
All the and you you you started a little teary
either for a second.
SPEAKER_01 (36:45):
I felt it.
I felt it.
You did, okay.
SPEAKER_03 (36:48):
It did.
SPEAKER_01 (36:48):
So all right, bring it down.
SPEAKER_03 (36:50):
Although this is all this is audio, I can contest.
SPEAKER_01 (36:53):
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_03 (36:54):
That that that Julian was starting to you know
tear up a little bit with thatpassion.
I love it.
All right, so Julian, we need tostart pivoting.
All right, so as a reminder,this is where we sometimes do
dad jokes, sometimes we playJeopardy, and okay.
I hinted at it, we're playingJeopardy today, so bear with me
while I bring in my Jeopardyboard.
Now, Julian, one of my favoriteholidays is Halloween.
(37:19):
And so we are gonna playHalloween Jeopardy.
So please allow me to describethe board that's on the screen
before I kind of walk into it.
So on my screen, of course, thisis all audio, so no one can see
this besides Julian and Justin.
But on my screen is a standardJeopardy board ranging from
points from 100 to 500.
(37:40):
There are five categories.
The categories are Halloweenmovies, Halloween, Halloween
treats, Halloween monsters, andanother Halloween.
Um, for the record, I did notmake this.
Um, I always just put thatdisclaimer on there.
I don't know what the answersare, I don't know anything about
(38:02):
this.
Um, admittedly, I was runningreally late, so I kind of just
googled Halloween.
And so who who knows?
Who knows what this is gonna be?
All right, so okay.
I I've kind of painted thepicture.
Julian, for the sake of this,you're team one, Justin's team
two.
Um, you do not have to answerwho is, what is, etc., etc.,
(38:24):
etc.
SPEAKER_02 (38:24):
You just blurt it out.
SPEAKER_03 (38:26):
Also, when you pick the question, it's your question
to answer.
There's no stealing now.
Unless Justin, unless you get itwrong, I will give Justin an
opportunity to steal, or viceversa.
But if you get that wrong, Ideduct points.
So all right, Julian, you arethe honored guests.
You get to go first.
SPEAKER_01 (38:48):
All right, let's go ahead.
I'm going the Halloween treatsfor 300.
Let's break it up in the middlehere.
SPEAKER_03 (38:53):
Halloween treats 300.
What's the popular chocolateHalloween candy that means to
laugh?
unknown (39:02):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01 (39:05):
What's the popular chocolate Halloween candy that
means to laugh?
What in the world?
SPEAKER_03 (39:12):
To laugh.
SPEAKER_01 (39:14):
Peter, you picked these questions?
SPEAKER_03 (39:16):
I did not pick these questions.
SPEAKER_01 (39:18):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03 (39:19):
That means to laugh.
SPEAKER_01 (39:23):
I I'm I'm stumped, and I don't know if it's because
I don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (39:26):
By the way, if you say you don't know, I don't
know.
Nothing happens.
SPEAKER_01 (39:30):
Okay, I don't know.
Justin, did you create thesequestions?
SPEAKER_04 (39:33):
Uh absolutely not.
No, Peter, Peter, I think,secretly does this in his
abundant free time and likes tothink of ways to how uh Justin's
never gonna get triggered uhJeopardy correct.
So no, I did not make this.
What is it, Justin?
Why do I have to guess?
SPEAKER_03 (39:50):
I don't know.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (39:51):
Well, the correct answer is Snickers of their dad
joke.
Oh, Justin.
SPEAKER_04 (40:02):
See, and I was thinking like Rolo, like I was
thinking Rolo's too.
Yeah, I was just like, you know,some something out like Rolo,
like laughing.
SPEAKER_01 (40:11):
But I wasn't gonna guess that because I knew that
was I have to calibrate my brainfor dad jokes now.
SPEAKER_03 (40:16):
I wasn't it it's not it's not gonna be all dad jokes.
Not gonna be all dad jokes.
At least I don't think so.
SPEAKER_01 (40:21):
That's a good one, though.
SPEAKER_03 (40:22):
Okay, Justin, you're up.
Halloween movies for 100.
Halloween movies for 100.
Casper is a friendly what?
Ghost.
SPEAKER_01 (40:36):
What?
I get the dad joke and you getCasper.
Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_03 (40:40):
The correct answer is Ghost.
SPEAKER_04 (40:46):
On the board positively.
All right, Julian.
SPEAKER_01 (40:52):
All right, I'm not gonna shoot ahead of my skis
again.
So let's do Halloween for 100,the second column, not the
fifth.
So how about we go?
SPEAKER_03 (41:02):
Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_01 (41:03):
There we go.
SPEAKER_03 (41:04):
Who are you gonna call?
SPEAKER_01 (41:06):
I don't know.
Ghostbusters.
Who are you gonna call?
We're aging ourselves here.
SPEAKER_03 (41:16):
The correct answer is Ghostbusters.
You are gonna call Ghostbusters.
SPEAKER_02 (41:22):
Good job, oh Justin.
SPEAKER_04 (41:28):
All right, let's let's we'll go negative here.
So we'll go Halloween monstersfor 200.
Halloween monsters 200.
SPEAKER_03 (41:37):
The ancient creature sewn together from corpse parts
and and sparked to life is bothtragic and terrifying.
SPEAKER_02 (41:49):
Frankenstein.
The correct answer isFrankenstein.
SPEAKER_03 (41:58):
Good job, Justin.
SPEAKER_01 (42:00):
All right.
SPEAKER_03 (42:01):
All right, Julian.
SPEAKER_01 (42:02):
So my goal is to at least meet or beat where Justin
is.
So if he does 200, I'm gonna doa 200er.
Okay, let's do uh Halloweentreats for 200.
SPEAKER_03 (42:14):
Halloween treats 200.
What rainbow candy sells overthree million pounds every
Halloween?
SPEAKER_01 (42:22):
Would that be MM's?
No.
SPEAKER_03 (42:28):
All right, Justin, you want to steal?
SPEAKER_01 (42:30):
Oh my god, really?
SPEAKER_03 (42:31):
Skittles.
SPEAKER_01 (42:32):
Wait a minute.
Listen, hold on.
I love, I know it tastes therainbow, but like I never
associate Skittles withHalloween ever.
SPEAKER_04 (42:43):
Well, neither do I.
It's just the rainbow.
SPEAKER_01 (42:46):
I mean the correct answer is.
I thought that, and I thought itwas Skittles, but I just never
associate Julian.
I mean, listen, you know what?
SPEAKER_03 (42:57):
Look at Justin winning.
SPEAKER_01 (42:59):
Okay, I'm coming back.
All right, I'm coming back.
I'm stretching now.
This is and I'm sorry, guys.
I didn't have my coffee today.
SPEAKER_04 (43:06):
Man, I have enough points to go for go for a big
one here.
All right, let's go.
Yeah, do that.
Halloween monsters for 500.
SPEAKER_03 (43:14):
Halloween monsters for 500.
A silent figure in a white maskstalks his victims uh
relentlessly in a long-runninghorror film franchise.
SPEAKER_04 (43:26):
Yep, haunted me all through my childhood.
That's Jason.
unknown (43:30):
Gosh!
SPEAKER_04 (43:30):
Oh wait, that could also be Michael.
No, no, it's Jason.
I don't care.
Both of those people haunted methrough my childhood.
So it's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (43:41):
Listen, I would say scream.
SPEAKER_04 (43:43):
Oh, that's a good one, too.
The correct answer.
You know what?
This is an unfair question.
Michael Myers.
We just identified three peoplewith white masks.
SPEAKER_01 (43:53):
See what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_04 (43:54):
Well, sorry.
See, this is how I told you, hemakes these questions.
SPEAKER_01 (43:58):
It could be Joan Crawford from Mommy Dear it.
She wore three white masks.
SPEAKER_04 (44:03):
And Julian, and Julian didn't answer that
question.
She didn't say I'm stealing.
She said something didn't.
That wasn't a real answer.
All right, fine.
Don't be mean to her like that.
Come on.
I won't.
I got you, Miss Julian.
Don't worry.
All right.
SPEAKER_01 (44:19):
Thank you so much, Jeff.
Julie.
Well, there's a will, there's aJ.
I'm sticking it up over here.
All right.
Let's do Halloween treats for500, even though I've been
unsuccessful.
I gotta catch it.
SPEAKER_03 (44:31):
Halloween treats, 500.
Often found in trick-or-treatbags.
These colorful sugar-coatedchocolate candies melt in your
mouth, not your hand.
SPEAKER_01 (44:40):
I'm going to press repeat and say MMs, Peter.
SPEAKER_03 (44:45):
Alright, the correct answer is MMs.
SPEAKER_01 (44:50):
Raleigh.
Raleigh.
SPEAKER_04 (44:53):
Alright, Justin.
Halloween movies or 500.
SPEAKER_03 (44:59):
Halloween movies?
500.
What is the name of the townwhere the nightmare before
Christmas takes place?
SPEAKER_02 (45:12):
That's a really good question.
SPEAKER_04 (45:17):
We're gonna go with Halloween.
I mean, that's the only thing Ican think of.
They keep screaming, this isHalloween.
SPEAKER_03 (45:26):
This is that's all that's I mean.
That's gotta be Halloween.
That was very Julian, do youwant to steal?
SPEAKER_01 (45:32):
Um, is it Christmas Town?
SPEAKER_03 (45:40):
Halloween town.
SPEAKER_01 (45:41):
But then why did you ask me to steal?
You're totally right.
SPEAKER_03 (45:45):
You were not right.
You just said Halloween.
SPEAKER_01 (45:47):
That is right.
I was thinking that it wasChristmas Town and because I
said Halloween.
SPEAKER_03 (45:53):
You just said Halloween.
You missed the important part.
See this, see this, see this?
What's this word?
What's this word?
T-O-W-N.
SPEAKER_04 (46:03):
It's identified in the name of the question that
it's a town.
Nope, Halloween town.
SPEAKER_01 (46:10):
Oh the designation.
Here go those zoning problems.
It could have been a township ora city, Justin.
SPEAKER_03 (46:18):
Seriously.
Could have been Halloween, itcould have been Halloweenville.
That would have been a totallydifferent answer.
Nope.
All right.
All right.
All right.
Last round.
Last round.
Julian.
SPEAKER_04 (46:32):
All right.
All right.
I thought Julian, I thought shegot it wrong that time.
No, she didn't.
SPEAKER_01 (46:39):
Okay.
We're now in the octagon.
I'm gonna do Halloween for 500,far right column.
SPEAKER_03 (46:46):
Far right column, Halloween 500.
What does the word Halloweencome from?
SPEAKER_04 (46:52):
Are you kidding me?
SPEAKER_01 (46:56):
Hollowed?
The word to be reverent?
I mean, how how deep are wesupposed to go here?
SPEAKER_03 (47:08):
I mean Justin, you want to see him?
No.
SPEAKER_01 (47:19):
Are you trying to get points here?
SPEAKER_03 (47:22):
No.
I know I mean, I know it's allHollows Eve.
No, that's the night beforeHalloween, I thought.
I don't know.
Correct answer is known as AllHollows Eve.
SPEAKER_01 (47:43):
I really listen, this is why I stick to mortgages
and not holidays.
SPEAKER_03 (47:50):
I hate when I'm right.
SPEAKER_01 (47:53):
I'm sorry, guys.
I'm just gonna fuck it up here.
SPEAKER_03 (47:57):
Right.
Um that was Julian's question,right?
Yeah.
All right.
Justin?
Is this our last question?
This is the very last question.
Oh man.
And and just I apologize, Ihaven't done this.
We currently have scores ofJulian with negative 100 and
(48:17):
Justin with negative 500.
SPEAKER_01 (48:19):
Wow.
How is this even pop?
Okay, I'm not gonna.
SPEAKER_04 (48:23):
Oh no, this is a normal score for me, actually.
It's no, his is more likenegative 2000.
Yeah, this is also true.
So I'm actually doing prettygood today.
I got one right.
I'm gonna go with Halloween, thefirst column, the second column
for 500.
I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, that one.
The fact that there's twoHalloween.
(48:44):
Where is the biggest Halloweenparade?
Is Halloween an Americanholiday?
No.
There we go.
That helps me a lot.
I wasn't sure about it.
(49:05):
See now the whole world's ouroyster.
Let's see.
Germany.
You're saying where in Germany?
No, it just says yeah, Germany.
You're saying Germany.
Germany is a location.
SPEAKER_03 (49:21):
I know it's a location, but where in Germany?
SPEAKER_04 (49:25):
I don't know that you uh I mean it see you're just
gonna mark me wrong if I'm notsuper specific and it wants to
find just say German.
SPEAKER_03 (49:31):
Germany's fine.
Julian, do you want to steal?
SPEAKER_01 (49:33):
I mean, are we uh do we have is it the world or are
we talking in the United States?
Like what are we talking about?
SPEAKER_03 (49:38):
I'm I'm guessing the world.
Well, you're winning right now.
You could just say I I don'twant to answer, and you could
still win.
SPEAKER_01 (49:46):
I could, but I would lose right, because I would lose
my push because he's already gotit wrong.
I'm gonna take a stab in thedark.
SPEAKER_04 (49:53):
Because I didn't get it wrong.
SPEAKER_01 (49:56):
Oh, you didn't?
SPEAKER_04 (49:57):
I don't know yet.
He doesn't know.
He doesn't know yet.
SPEAKER_01 (50:00):
Oh gosh.
So see, there's the pressure Ihave to answer because if he
gets it right, then he's likegonna beat me, right?
He'll be a zero.
SPEAKER_03 (50:07):
I mean, even even if you get them both good wrong and
you still win.
SPEAKER_01 (50:10):
All right.
I'm just gonna say, I'm gonnathrow it out there, and I'm
gonna stick with the UnitedStates, and I'm gonna say New
York City, and I'm gonna gothere.
SPEAKER_03 (50:19):
Okay.
All right, I'm I'm gonna chimein on this too.
I'm gonna say Salem Mass.
unknown (50:23):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (50:24):
Correct answer is.
Oh, that's a good one.
New York!
SPEAKER_01 (50:32):
And can I just say the only reason I know this is
because I was on IG and somebodywas posting about it.
SPEAKER_03 (50:41):
All right.
At the end of how many rounds wewe played, the final score is
Julian with positive 400 andJustin negative 1,000.
Now that's a score I like to seefor Justin.
SPEAKER_01 (50:55):
Even a broke clock is right twice a day.
SPEAKER_03 (50:59):
That's right.
Well, Julian, that was awesome.
Congratulations for being thisepisode's winner of Halloween on
point Jeopardy.
SPEAKER_02 (51:09):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (51:10):
And by the way, Julian, really do appreciate
everything that you do for ourindustry, our association.
Really enjoyed the conversation.
And again, thank you so much forbeing on today.
SPEAKER_01 (51:18):
I appreciate it.
Thanks, everybody, and thanks toyour listeners.
And you guys are the absolutebest.
Thank you for all of thewonderful work that you do.
Um, as a former uh uh, you know,administration official, I can't
underscore or overstate too muchuh how valuable this partnership
has been.
So thank you so much to Peterand Team Acuma.
(51:39):
You guys are the best.
SPEAKER_03 (51:40):
Of course.
And Justin, thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (51:55):
Thanks for listening.
We'll see you next time at theAcuma on Point Podcast.
If not already, be sure tosubscribe and give us a five
star rating.
For more great episodes andinformation, be sure to visit us
online at Acuma.org.
And to get the latest updates,head over to our LinkedIn page.
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