October 31, 2025 • 38 mins
When Washington grinds to a halt, households and lenders feel the tremors long before the headlines fade. We break down the current full federal shutdown, why ACA subsidy deadlines hardened the standoff, how “essential” designations keep some services moving while paychecks stall, and where the real economic bruises show up if this stretches from weeks into months. From missing jobs reports and data gaps that complicate interest-rate decisions to airport slowdowns and household cash flow stress, we connect the dots to mortgages, servicing, and credit union balance sheets.
Then we pivot to a rare bright beam: the Road to Housing Act. It’s the most extensive housing package to move in years, and it cleared the Senate Banking Committee unanimously before hitching a ride on the NDAA. We unpack how “Senate magic” pushed it forward, why the House lacks a clean counterpart, and what the conference process looks like when the little four corners start trading priorities. For credit unions and lenders, this could mean incremental but meaningful improvements to housing supply, financing access, and community development—provided the final text survives the House-Senate negotiations.
We also surface risks hiding in plain sight: the lapse in federal flood insurance during peak storm season, the legal and operational uncertainty from RIFs aimed at programs like the CDFI Fund and HUD, and what that means for community institutions already stretched by high rates and tight inventory. Throughout, Zach Fister offers a clear map of the politics, the policy, and the practical steps leaders can take now—member outreach for furloughed workers, skip-a-pay frameworks, pipeline reviews in flood zones, and rate-lock strategies when official data go dark.
If you value straight, helpful guidance on housing and policy without the noise, you’ll find it here. Subscribe, share with a colleague who needs the signal, and leave a review to help more listeners navigate a tricky moment with clarity.
Sponsored by Loan Vision.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
The views and opinions expressed in this
podcast do not necessarilyreflect the views or positions
of acumen, its board ofdirectors, its management staff,
or its members.
The podcast discussion presentedis conversational in nature and
for general information only.
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
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(01:24):
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SPEAKER_03 (01:32):
Hello, welcome to Acadon Point Podcast, a series
focused on sharing the storiesof people who are making a
positive impact in the creditunion mortgage industry.
I'm your host, Peter Benjamin.
Today I'm joined by our residentexpert, Mr.
Zach Fister, policy directorwith the Brown scene.
Zach, my friend, how are youdoing today?
SPEAKER_02 (01:49):
How are you, Peter?
It's great to hear your voice.
SPEAKER_03 (01:52):
That's good.
And at least I'm glad someone ishappy to hear my voice.
My my my kids aren't aren't toofond of it at this moment in
time, but that's good.
That's good.
So, Zach, as I mentioned in myintro, we have you know, I'm not
gonna say two of the moreimportant topics that come up
(02:13):
lately.
I think one is I don't want toframe it up as a negative, but
but you you may say otherwise.
One's kind of sort of a negativetopic with a shutdown, but one,
on the other hand, is is isreally a positive thing with the
Road Housing Act.
So I I know you have your listof stuff, but you know, those
(02:33):
are the two main things I wantto focus on.
So I'll let you figure out arewe gonna start with you know
some some positivity, or we'regonna focus on with you know
some negative?
I'll let I'll let you pick.
But Zach, what's going on in DC?
SPEAKER_02 (02:46):
I mean, I I definitely think we should start
with the elephant in the room,and that is the fact that the
federal government is now in itssecond week uh of a shutdown.
Um the federal governmentshutdown uh en masse.
Uh this is a full governmentshutdown, uh shutdown on October
1st.
(03:07):
Um both sides are currently atwhat can only be described as an
impasse.
Um the House passed a what'sknown as a continuing resolution
uh back on September 19th, andthen promptly uh departed
Washington, D.C.
There was some strategy involvedin that, uh trying to jam the
(03:28):
Senate.
Uh the Senate then followed suitand attempted to pass this uh
continuing resolution.
Uh now they are on their eighthattempt, um, which will be uh
the season.
Now that's anticipated to fail.
Uh once again, uh the Democratshave offered a competing
(03:51):
continuing resolution.
Uh a lot of this justdisagreement and you know the
the catalyst that led to theshutdown was the fact that the
Affordable Care Act premiumsubsidies uh are set to expire
at the end of the year.
The problem is that openenrollment for the Affordable
Care Act uh starts on November1st and throughout the month of
(04:14):
October, any policyholders uhusing ACAP coverage will receive
notices that their premiums arelikely to increase uh two or
three X.
So the the CongressionalDemocrats have planted their
flag in extending thosesubsidies outward.
Uh their ask is for permanence.
(04:37):
Uh Republicans have uh notexpressed a willingness to uh to
extend these in any form, andnow both sides are at this this
impasse.
The government remains shut downuh as we speak.
In terms of light on thehorizon, the best I can say is
(04:59):
that it seems that they aretalking about potentially
talking, but right now we'rewe're not in a great place.
Um how I think this ends is aswe get closer to this November
1st uh open enrollment period,and as we get closer to these
(05:19):
expiration dates on the twocontinuing resolutions that were
put forward, one goes until theDemocratic one goes until
October 31st, the Republican onegoes until November 21st.
At some point, those dates aregoing to be moot.
And even if the uh SenateDemocrats relented and voted on
(05:40):
the House passed provision toreopen the government tomorrow,
that provision or that continuedresolution only extends until
November 21st.
So they are uh going to have todo this all over again if that's
the if that's the date.
As we get closer to November,it's very possible that we see
both sides recalculating theirthought processes on this.
(06:04):
Uh, we will see new datesfloated in terms of you know
extending government funding,and we will hopefully see a
thawing in in some sort ofnegotiation around extending
these subsidies uh to you knowout to a later date, one, two,
three years, whatever it may be.
And no doubt with certainconditions um that both sides
(06:25):
have to meet.
So in the meantime, with theentire federal government shut
down, uh only essential servicesbeing offered, uh the term
essential is a designation youknow made by the executive
branch.
So, for example, uh we we stillhave active duty military, we
(06:45):
still have uh federal lawenforcement and TSA agents
deemed essential.
The issue is that they uh areare potentially going to go
without pay until the shutdownis resolved.
There's an automatic provisionin law now, uh, after the last
shutdown from 2019 that requiresautomatic back pay uh without
(07:10):
the approval of Congress.
Traditionally, over the years,every time there's been a
shutdown, Congress would thenhave to go and vote each chamber
to give back pay to the you knowseveral million federal
employees.
That's no longer an issue.
However, um there are inflectionpoints that ensue uh through
(07:30):
these periods where uh nobodywants a federal employee to miss
their paycheck.
But members of Congresscertainly don't want our armed
services to miss their paycheck.
A lot of people thought thattoday or tomorrow would be that
inflection point because this isthe this is the day that uh our
our service members werescheduled to receive their next
(07:51):
paycheck and potentially wouldhave gone without.
The administration found somemoney in unobligated funds from
a DOD uh research anddevelopment uh bucket, and
they're gonna reallocate thosefunds to buy themselves some
time.
I think everybody is relieved bythat, but at the same time, it
lets out pressure from uh youknow the action forcing events.
(08:15):
So now uh the issue of troop payis not an issue for at least
another two weeks.
Arguably, that gives both sidesthe ability to dig in further
and prolong this shutdown untilthere's some sort of thawing of
that ice.
What that means for the youknow, the the housing industry
real large in terms of of theshutdown, uh as of now, um I
(08:39):
think the impacts are minimalfor now.
Um what we are seeing, you know,the FHFA is is independently
funded, the the bankingregulators uh are independently
funded.
So that they're operating asnormal.
Um however, you know, theresidual impacts of a shutdown
(09:01):
when you have potentiallymillions of Americans missing
paychecks, that can weigh downthe economy red large.
That can weigh down, I mean,every every other one of those
federal uh employees likely hasa mortgage, right?
Um they they have car payments,they have bills, they have
tuition payments just likeeveryone else.
(09:22):
And uh if people are missingpaychecks, people are more
likely to potentially misspayments.
And the aggregate effect of thatwe will presumably uh and
potentially see in the market.
Uh, we will see in people,Americans writ large reducing uh
(09:44):
their consumer spending.
Again, this is a a long, a moreyou know lengthy projection, uh,
but it's also you know, theseare the limited reasons why it's
in no policymakers' bestinterest to allow for a
prolonged shutdown.
Uh the effects can be minimal ifthe length is minimal.
(10:05):
Uh, but if we're if we'retalking you know, more than a
month, more than two months, uhthat starts weighing down on the
economy as a whole.
unknown (10:15):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (10:16):
So I mean, all right, so you just threw out a
lot, right?
And here we are, what, 13 days,a couple hours in, et cetera.
The longest shutdown part ofthis was what 35 days, right?
All right.
So when we think about and I Iand thank you very much for kind
of bringing up how hey, there ismay not be uh an effect today,
(10:40):
but there's gonna be an effecttomorrow the longer this
progresses on, mispayments, etc.
Now, one of the things thatcould be impacted today, I mean,
because correct me if I'm wrong,we're still very much in you
know hurricane season, right?
Um flood insurance.
You know, it's it's pretty muchlapsed.
(11:02):
Yeah, lapsed, and and right now,what happens okay again, worst
case, I know act of guidancething.
What happens when when there ifwhen and if there is a
hurricane, you know thosestates, those cities, wherever
you frame up, those communitiesare gonna be completely
(11:22):
vulnerable.
But every single mortgagecompany who has servicing rights
in that in that territory couldbe crippled.
That's right.
SPEAKER_02 (11:35):
And and it's even been you know, I've seen
commentary over recent weekswhere it's you know, would this
would this have ever gotten thisfar had there been a major
hurricane heading towards theeast coast?
Um in past shutdowns, Congresshas notoriously uh taken up
(11:58):
individual bills to address someof these issues.
So in the in the last uhshutdown, they passed a
standalone extension uh for NFIPfor the flood insurance program.
They also passed a standaloneextension for troop pay, uh for
FAA authorization that waslapsing at the time because the
(12:19):
dates coincided.
They have the ability to dothis.
They can do it uh in minutesbecause you can voice vote
something like this in theHouse.
You can unanimo you can do itvia unanimous consent in the
Senate.
And the fact that they thatneither side has attempted to do
this yet, um, that leadershiphas not, you know, forced the
(12:42):
issue to the floor, uh, kind ofshows the result that both sides
either uh think that they arewinning this argument or both
sides know they are losing thisargument.
Um, you know, the currentpolling out there on the
shutdown because there's a pollfor everything.
The current polling shows, youknow, 33% on average, you know,
(13:05):
33% of Americans blame theDemocrats, 33% of Americans
blame the Republicans, but amajority, or at least the
plurality of those poll blameboth parties, right?
And if if neither party has theupper hand, it it can further
that mentality of trench warfarethat we're kind of seeing right
(13:27):
now, barring some you know majoraction forcing event.
Uh it it seems that the theDemocratic position is that they
are better positioned to havethat breakthrough with the
president himself, a directnegotiation with the president.
Um, you know, uh President Trumpis looking down the pike at the
(13:48):
midterms as well.
And and you know, everyone knowsthat having these subsidies
lapse or having a hurricane uhmaterialize in the Gulf next
week, those are not those arenot good problems, right?
Regardless of the of thepoliticking over um, you know,
(14:10):
the the current shutdown, thoseare real problems, right?
Federal work federal workersmissing their paychecks are real
problems.
And so far, these are umtheoretical, but they can become
real very quickly.
And um I, you know, it it's ait's a valid point.
Uh I'm personally shocked thatthey did not just do a voice
(14:33):
voted uh NFIP extension, butit's certainly on the minds of
others uh up there on the hillas to you know what catastrophic
effects that could have if ifnot dealt with at the right
time.
SPEAKER_03 (14:47):
Okay, so you know that's obviously flood major.
That could be major disasters,deadly.
But also when we when we look atother things that could be
impacted, correct me if I'mwrong, but the nef the next FOMC
meeting is right beforeHalloween.
(15:09):
Are they still able to meet oreven vote on the state of
interest rates?
Because I think I read somewherethat uh was it not consumer
confidence?
Um there's one poll.
Maybe it is consumer confidence.
Um it won't be able to bepublished because of this
shutdown.
SPEAKER_02 (15:30):
That's possible.
Um I so I mean the the the theFederal Reserve itself, I I I
think that they can meet um theuh but but offices that are
critical to the inner workingsof the federal government.
So whether it's the governmentprinting office or whether it's
the Bureau of Labor Statisticsputting out jobs numbers, those
those items do not come out ifthere are not humans working in
(15:54):
those departments to put outthat data, right?
And that these are perfectexamples of the ripple effects
that uh, you know, I think weall take for granted, right?
It's like, you know, it's it'sit's Friday jobs reporting day,
right?
Yeah, it it is if thegovernment's open, right?
But it's not if it's not, right?
We have you're seeing this, youknow, you're seeing this
(16:16):
starting to bubble up in theairport, right?
You can deem as many peopleessential as you want in these
critical positions, but whenpeople start miss missing
paychecks for, you know, for forearned, you know, hours earned,
pay earned, um you're gonnastart seeing people call out,
right?
And you're starting to see that,you know, uh at various airports
(16:40):
across the country.
I think it only gets worse,right?
Where uh, you know, now may be agood time to use some sick days,
right?
Um all of this in the aggregate,you know, creates problems.
You know, we will see it, youknow, the longer it goes, we
will see it in you know economicand on this forecasts on what
that does to the next quarterlyGDP report, right?
(17:04):
We've seen that in the pastwhere the GDP has taken a dip
because of a federal shutdown.
And the last one, what made itum slightly different is that it
was a partial federal shutdown.
So there was um, for example,the the DOD and I think Homeland
Security and a handful of othercabinet departments, they were
fully funded, right?
(17:24):
So that also took some pressureout.
This is a full governmentshutdown, and we haven't had one
of these in in quite some time.
So the the dynamics are slightlydifferent.
The other thing I will say isthe reason that this has the
propensity to uh get worsebefore it gets better is that
the you know the administrationhas made some recent
(17:47):
announcements on furtherreductions in force, uh commonly
referred to as RIFs.
Uh the we saw a lot of RIFsearlier this year, um, you know,
several hundred thousand federalworkers, either uh the positions
or the departments terminated,or uh federal buyouts, etc.
(18:09):
So the doge activities at thebeginning of the of this
administration and this Congressled to several hundred thousand
um federal workers having theirjobs eliminated in one way or
the other.
We're starting to see those RIFnotices being reported um you
know going into the end of lastweek.
And um, you know, I'm justreading the news here at this
(18:31):
point, but the the the OMBdirector uh you know announced
that the RIFs would focus on uhpriorities and programs that are
important to Democrats.
And that is another kind oflever in this uh you know, tit
for tat between the Democratsand Republicans, where they're
(18:53):
going to attempt to applypressure on the Democrats to uh
to you know to move their votesinto the S column.
And one RIF notice that we sawgoing into the weekend or
reports of about said RIF isaround the CDFI fund.
Right?
So the CDFI fund's already beenum a target for reduction and or
(19:18):
you know uh abolition, uh uh,you know, abolishment in in you
know the last year.
And there was a lot ofstakeholder pressure,
congressional pressure thatpushed back on that, you know,
that attempt last year.
What what was reported goinginto the weekend is that
essentially the the remainingCDFI staff will be uh will be
(19:42):
have their positions terminatedthrough a formal RIF notice,
which has a kind of a 60-day andin some cases 30-day timeline,
right?
Uh, but then it begs thequestion what do you what do you
do with a congressionallymandated program with
congressionally mandatedspending, money mandated to go
out the doors, if there are nohumans there to administer that
(20:06):
distribution of funds.
And so you will see, you know,you will see plenty of reporting
around the you know the legalityof this or the you know the
constitutional you knowdisagreements around this.
Um, but at the end of the day,it's it is another tactic in you
know that that one side is usingas an arrow in their quiver, uh,
(20:29):
you know, against the other sidewho has you know their own
respective arrows.
In the in the midst of that,though, the we're talking about
you know in real real worldimpacts, you know, for credit
unions, you know, there areseveral hundred, you know north
of 500 CDFI credit unions,right?
And this creates a level ofuncertainty uh that is has not
(20:55):
is not paralleled in in recentmemory for for these for these
credit unions.
And I and I think this is thevery beginning, and I I trust
that this will be resolvedbecause the support for the CDFI
fund and the support for CDFIinstitutions is so strong in
Congress.
It's bipartisan, it's alwaysbeen bipartisan, that I I do
(21:18):
think there will be resolution,but it is yet another example of
you know the the the collateraldamage that a federal shutdown
causes because these variousprograms and entities and
institutions involved becomekind of pawns in the chess game.
SPEAKER_03 (21:37):
So kind of going back to the rifts, you know, one
of the if I I I think I readthis, but it either already
happened or it's going tohappen.
But HUD is is one of thoseagencies that that's on that
list to be further displaced.
Is that correct?
(21:58):
That's right.
So I mean uh again, the I won'tsay it's the long-standing
impacts.
Now, would you consider thatthese I'm I'm kind of pivoting
real quick, so please forgiveme.
Would you say like if someone isdisplaced, you know, and they
(22:19):
they kind of fall into thatriver and we'll say they're at
HUD, is this a temporary thingor is it like where they can be
hired back, or is this theadministrative's move to
continue with, like you said,the hinting at the doge stuff?
SPEAKER_02 (22:35):
So so that this is where I think it gets kind of
murky.
Um it again, I and I am not a uhI am not a RIF uh expert by any
means.
Um that this has not been a toolthat has been uh used uh to
great degree over the years.
But um, if my understanding iscorrect, in addition to having a
(22:58):
you know a timeline for this um,you know, the the execution of
the RIF itself, right?
So the the the offboarding ofthe the federal workforce
headcount in that given programor department, um, I think that
there are there are requirementson the back end of that protocol
that says in the future, uh RIFTemployees of that program must
(23:26):
be given first precedence forany rehiring that uh ensues, you
know, in in in the you know inthe months or years ahead,
right?
So if you are, you know, ifyou're in one of the you know,
if you're in the acme divisionand you're selling this widget,
if you get laid off via a RIF,and then that ACME division
(23:50):
turns around two months laterand puts out a job posting for
the same position and the samequalifications, my understanding
is that they have to be givenkind of right of first refusal
for for the position.
Now, I think it is way lessclear than that.
And I think there are uh youknow a million ways to to go
(24:12):
about this, but theoretically,that is how it it that that is
how it it should work.
But again, if if you're if yourposition is terminated and
you're out there on the on youknow it in the in the market and
you get a new job, like do youhave interest in coming back to
the position that you just gotlaid off of?
In some cases, probably not.
(24:33):
But what you're seeing is um anyreversion on those decisions
happens really quickly, right?
Uh they announced similarly, youknow, they announced like 400 um
planned terminations at at HUD.
They also announced hundredsover at the Center for D Disease
(24:53):
Control.
And then within 24 hours,something like two or three
hundred of these uh thesedisease specialists got hired
back immediately.
Like, okay, you know, we weovershot the bow there, right?
Come back in.
Um, because once you lose thattalent, it is it is hard to get
that back, right?
I mean, have you I'm not I'm notsupposing that you you've ever
(25:16):
applied for a federal positionon on USA jobs, but the process
for federal hiring is lengthy,um, as you might expect, right?
It it's the it's the federalgovernment, it's the largest
employer in the United States.
They have, you know, it it isquite the process.
So hiring people back is is isnot the easiest thing.
So any decision on that frontneeds to be made sooner rather
(25:40):
than later.
SPEAKER_03 (25:42):
Appreciate you walking us through that.
All right.
So I think we need to, I don'twant to say cheer things up a
bit.
Um, but at least at least it'ssome private or some positive
news.
Well, let's go over.
So in our last episode, youknow, uh Ann Marie did an
excellent job of helping ussummarize you know the road to
housing.
You know, you know, I think youand I have talked in the past
(26:05):
offline and you know, not onair.
You know, that this is really aninstrumental or could be a
significant um decision acrosson on Capitol Hill that will
actually help.
I don't say the housing crisis,but I'm gonna say the housing
crisis that actually could helpthe housing crisis.
(26:27):
Recently there's been somepositive momentum.
So why don't you kind of sharewhat that is?
SPEAKER_02 (26:32):
Sure.
Um and and yeah, I I I think thebest way to describe it is it's
a start, right?
Um it it it is notable, if notfor anything else, that it is
probably the largest piece ofhousing legislation that has
come out of Congress in recentmemory.
Um and it somehow uh passed outof the Senate Banking Committee
(26:57):
unanimously.
Um there is a wide ideologicalspectrum on the Senate Banking
Committee.
Uh both Chairman Scott and uhRanking Member Warren should be
commended for their ability toum, you know, to to bridge those
gaps.
And, you know, in part it's allabout compromise, right?
This bill is really a uh anamalgamation of several dozen,
(27:21):
or I think close to you know 40or 50 individual pieces of
legislation that were kind ofpieced together into various
titles uh that that made thethat ultimately made the Road to
Housing Act.
Um in the midst of all of thedoom and gloom that I just
walked through, uh the Senateshowed just last week, at the
(27:42):
end of the week, right beforethey left town, that Senate
magic still exists.
Um Senate magic is a a term thatyou know we in the industry
refer to when the Senate wantsto do something, they can do it.
Uh and they can do it quick.
The Senate is not known forbeing quick on anything, but
whenever they uh when theyemploy Senate magic, they can
(28:04):
they can do things at lightningspeed.
And they did just that.
They languished through the weekwith no um no results on
government funding, and theyturned around and reached an
agreement on a series ofstandalone amendments and a
manager's amendment package uhthat had uh you know a wide
(28:25):
assortment of provisions in it,and they held a series of you
know, 20-some odd votes andpassed the Senate NDAA.
The Senate NDAA had been kind ofwritten off for dead, and most
assumed that the process wouldsimply move into the background
(28:46):
uh in an informal conferencinguh between the two chambers.
But they moved it throughregular order, and so it gave
everyone a glimpse that you knowit it's still possible to do,
you know, robust public policywork in this environment.
That said, um, you know, the theas you mentioned, the Road to
(29:07):
Housing Act was earlier in theprocess submitted as an
amendment to the NDAA.
Uh it it it got uh it gotincluded, uh it passed out late
last week.
And so now where it sits is theSenate has passed its version of
the NDAA, the House has passedits version of the NDAA, and now
(29:32):
the two chambers um are eithergoing to do a formal conference
where they appoint they appointconferees from both chambers.
This is usually like members ofleadership, uh the committee
chairs, uh, committee rankingmembers over um, you know, for
committees that havejurisdiction over various
provisions of the bill.
(29:52):
And then these two groups ofconferees then technically meet
in conference.
And hash out their differences.
In reality, they may meet onlyonce.
They may meet twice.
But in practicality, all oftheir respective senior staff
who are responsible for writingthis bill are meeting
(30:16):
frequently, right?
They're making trades, they'reyou know refining the language,
etc.
The challenge for the Road toHousing Act is it has clearly
robust Senate support, right?
In addition to passing out ofthe committee unanimously, uh it
(30:36):
passed several thresholds beforeit was ultimately included in uh
in the Senate version.
It passed what are known ashotlines, meaning like the
Senate leadership Republicansand the Senate leadership
Democrats will run a quoteunquote hotline for their
respective caucuses before thatamendment or bill is going to
(30:59):
come to the floor for a vote.
And it's kind of think of it aslike a pre-vote, like, hey,
we're gonna put this on thefloor.
If anybody has objections, letus know now so we can speed
things up once we get there.
Uh, and if everyone signs off,then that means that uh it
passed that initial litmus testand then it's included.
The challenge is that the House,not only do they not have the
(31:21):
Road to Housing Act, they don'thave anything comparable to a
counterpart.
So they're gonna go into thisconference setting, and you're
gonna have this robust Senatesupport for road to housing, and
you're going to have at best umtepid support or at least
indifference from the Houseside.
(31:43):
So it will be the job ofChairman Scott and Ranking
Member Warren to, you know,fight for this in the conference
committee to convince theirhouse counterparts that they
should come along on this andthat they'll, you know, they'll
throw their support behind otherHouse initiatives or the House
members, the you know, FrenchHill, Maxine Waters, they may
(32:07):
come to the table with uh withsome other legislative
priorities that they want totrade on, right?
Because when you get into thisconference committee, you have
what's known as the fourcorners, the big four corners,
and the small four corners.
Big four corners are House andSenate leadership.
So that's the speaker, theSenate majority leader, and
their respective um minoritycounterparts.
(32:29):
And then you have the littlefour corners, which are the
committee chairs and thecommittee ranking members of
that committee of jurisdictionover the bill.
So the little four corners, whenthey meet, they may say the
Senate folks may say, we wantthe Road to Housing Act
included.
Please, you know, sign off onthis.
French Hill and Elizabeth Moore,or French Hill and Maxine Waters
(32:53):
may say, uh, that's fine, but uhwe want this French Hill bill
and we want this Maxine Watersbill.
And traditionally, all foursides need to sign off on
something for inclusion if it isoutside the traditional scope of
the NDAA, which the Road toHousing Act obviously is.
It is not a defense-relatedprovision.
(33:15):
So um it has a road to go forthe road to housing, but it is
in a much better place than itwas last week because it has
legislative history now.
It has history of you know beingsupported and voted both in the
committee and on the Senatefloor, and going into you know
the next several weeks, it it'llbe positioned as as good as it
(33:35):
can be going into thisconversation, which they
hopefully uh hope to wrap up byThanksgiving.
unknown (33:41):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (33:43):
Yeah, before we wrap up, I I just have one uh maybe
it's a ridiculous question, butI'll call it a ridiculous
question.
Yeah, well, I mean, I I knowthat this still has uh a ways to
go, and I I know that it stillhas very many hurdles to jump
through.
(34:05):
But this seems to be a positivething that you're not really
hearing about in the news.
Is this just being overshadowedby everything else that's
happening?
SPEAKER_02 (34:20):
Oh, 100%.
Uh I mean all of the all of theenergy and political capital in
DC is is being sucked into thisuh federal shutdown vortex,
right?
Um uh in your face politics andcombative politics makes for
(34:43):
better cable news coverage,right?
Um D DC outlets aren't uh youknow particularly known for
covering the wonkier side of oflegislation until there becomes
something of a contention point,right?
Um I think for something toreach the level of of that
(35:05):
coverage, it it ends it, youknow, it usually starts uh
partisan, right?
So you look at things like theyou know, the Economic Recovery
Act or the you know the variousCOVID bills, and you saw all
that, you know, disagreementabout how to make that sausage.
Um when you have something uhyou know, again, this bill is is
(35:27):
less substantive and uh and thanthose pieces of legislation, but
when you have something thateverybody agrees on, um, you
know, I would argue that's kindof news in and of itself, right?
But um it it doesn't drive theit doesn't drive the viewership,
right?
So there are dozens of otherpieces of legislation out there
(35:50):
that have made significantprogress throughout this year
that are you know slowly movingthrough the schoolhouse rock
process, and they're not gettingany coverage as well because
where they are getting coverage,it's just being blanketed over
by the overarching shutdownnarrative or the overarching
Democrats versus Republicans orDemocrats versus the Trump
(36:11):
administration narrative.
And, you know, the the presidenthas the biggest megaphone in the
world.
And there's no president thathas better use that megaphone uh
to news coverage than PresidentTrump.
And, you know, he's been on uhhe's been on quite a um you
(36:32):
know, quite a tear recently withsome big news, right?
He he just got back from themiddle Middle East, um where he
was with the uh you know withMiddle Eastern and Israeli
leaders announcing the peacedeal.
The previous week he was youknow holding Oval Office uh uh
announcements with the big drugmakers and you know announcing
(36:54):
deals on that front.
He, you know, when he has anannouncement, he gets all the
coverage, right?
And so Congress is you know notgonna get the coverage on
something like this unlessthere's controversy involved.
SPEAKER_03 (37:11):
It's unfortunate.
Unfortunate.
Well well, Zach, thank you verymuch, as always.
It is politics, I know, and notonly that, it um it it's not it
doesn't produce ratings like allthe other ones, so I mean I get
it.
It's unfortunate.
I mean it it I don't want to sayit's a feel-good story, but it
it it like you said, it's it'sit's unanimous, it's bipartisan,
(37:33):
you know, it it shows that hey,in some way, shape, or form,
regardless of how you feel aboutour the current state of
government, it does still work,right?
If there's a message that'sagreed upon, right?
And and housing is can besomething they all agree upon.
So I don't know.
(37:54):
Anyways, I I I'll come off, I'llI'll come off my soapbox.
Well, anyway, Zach, we gottawrap up.
Thank you very much for foreverything that you do for us
and and for for being on today.
All right, thank you all.
Okay, and to close out, thankyou again to Lone Vision for
sponsoring today's episode.
And to all of you, we know yourtime is valuable.
Thank you for tuning in to thelatest episode of Acuma's On
(38:16):
Point Podcast.
We hope you enjoyed it.
Until next time, be well, myfriends.
SPEAKER_01 (38:20):
Thanks for listening.
We'll see you next time at theAcuma on Point Podcast.
If not already, be sure tosubscribe and give us a five
star rating.
For more great episodes andinformation, be sure to visit us
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The views and opinions expressed in this
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The podcast discussion presentedis conversational in nature and
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SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
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(01:24):
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upcoming events page.
SPEAKER_03 (01:32):
Hello, welcome to Acadon Point Podcast, a series
focused on sharing the storiesof people who are making a
positive impact in the creditunion mortgage industry.
I'm your host, Peter Benjamin.
Today I'm joined by our residentexpert, Mr.
Zach Fister, policy directorwith the Brown scene.
Zach, my friend, how are youdoing today?
SPEAKER_02 (01:49):
How are you, Peter?
It's great to hear your voice.
SPEAKER_03 (01:52):
That's good.
And at least I'm glad someone ishappy to hear my voice.
My my my kids aren't aren't toofond of it at this moment in
time, but that's good.
That's good.
So, Zach, as I mentioned in myintro, we have you know, I'm not
gonna say two of the moreimportant topics that come up
(02:13):
lately.
I think one is I don't want toframe it up as a negative, but
but you you may say otherwise.
One's kind of sort of a negativetopic with a shutdown, but one,
on the other hand, is is isreally a positive thing with the
Road Housing Act.
So I I know you have your listof stuff, but you know, those
(02:33):
are the two main things I wantto focus on.
So I'll let you figure out arewe gonna start with you know
some some positivity, or we'regonna focus on with you know
some negative?
I'll let I'll let you pick.
But Zach, what's going on in DC?
SPEAKER_02 (02:46):
I mean, I I definitely think we should start
with the elephant in the room,and that is the fact that the
federal government is now in itssecond week uh of a shutdown.
Um the federal governmentshutdown uh en masse.
Uh this is a full governmentshutdown, uh shutdown on October
1st.
(03:07):
Um both sides are currently atwhat can only be described as an
impasse.
Um the House passed a what'sknown as a continuing resolution
uh back on September 19th, andthen promptly uh departed
Washington, D.C.
There was some strategy involvedin that, uh trying to jam the
(03:28):
Senate.
Uh the Senate then followed suitand attempted to pass this uh
continuing resolution.
Uh now they are on their eighthattempt, um, which will be uh
the season.
Now that's anticipated to fail.
Uh once again, uh the Democratshave offered a competing
(03:51):
continuing resolution.
Uh a lot of this justdisagreement and you know the
the catalyst that led to theshutdown was the fact that the
Affordable Care Act premiumsubsidies uh are set to expire
at the end of the year.
The problem is that openenrollment for the Affordable
Care Act uh starts on November1st and throughout the month of
(04:14):
October, any policyholders uhusing ACAP coverage will receive
notices that their premiums arelikely to increase uh two or
three X.
So the the CongressionalDemocrats have planted their
flag in extending thosesubsidies outward.
Uh their ask is for permanence.
(04:37):
Uh Republicans have uh notexpressed a willingness to uh to
extend these in any form, andnow both sides are at this this
impasse.
The government remains shut downuh as we speak.
In terms of light on thehorizon, the best I can say is
(04:59):
that it seems that they aretalking about potentially
talking, but right now we'rewe're not in a great place.
Um how I think this ends is aswe get closer to this November
1st uh open enrollment period,and as we get closer to these
(05:19):
expiration dates on the twocontinuing resolutions that were
put forward, one goes until theDemocratic one goes until
October 31st, the Republican onegoes until November 21st.
At some point, those dates aregoing to be moot.
And even if the uh SenateDemocrats relented and voted on
(05:40):
the House passed provision toreopen the government tomorrow,
that provision or that continuedresolution only extends until
November 21st.
So they are uh going to have todo this all over again if that's
the if that's the date.
As we get closer to November,it's very possible that we see
both sides recalculating theirthought processes on this.
(06:04):
Uh, we will see new datesfloated in terms of you know
extending government funding,and we will hopefully see a
thawing in in some sort ofnegotiation around extending
these subsidies uh to you knowout to a later date, one, two,
three years, whatever it may be.
And no doubt with certainconditions um that both sides
(06:25):
have to meet.
So in the meantime, with theentire federal government shut
down, uh only essential servicesbeing offered, uh the term
essential is a designation youknow made by the executive
branch.
So, for example, uh we we stillhave active duty military, we
(06:45):
still have uh federal lawenforcement and TSA agents
deemed essential.
The issue is that they uh areare potentially going to go
without pay until the shutdownis resolved.
There's an automatic provisionin law now, uh, after the last
shutdown from 2019 that requiresautomatic back pay uh without
(07:10):
the approval of Congress.
Traditionally, over the years,every time there's been a
shutdown, Congress would thenhave to go and vote each chamber
to give back pay to the you knowseveral million federal
employees.
That's no longer an issue.
However, um there are inflectionpoints that ensue uh through
(07:30):
these periods where uh nobodywants a federal employee to miss
their paycheck.
But members of Congresscertainly don't want our armed
services to miss their paycheck.
A lot of people thought thattoday or tomorrow would be that
inflection point because this isthe this is the day that uh our
our service members werescheduled to receive their next
(07:51):
paycheck and potentially wouldhave gone without.
The administration found somemoney in unobligated funds from
a DOD uh research anddevelopment uh bucket, and
they're gonna reallocate thosefunds to buy themselves some
time.
I think everybody is relieved bythat, but at the same time, it
lets out pressure from uh youknow the action forcing events.
(08:15):
So now uh the issue of troop payis not an issue for at least
another two weeks.
Arguably, that gives both sidesthe ability to dig in further
and prolong this shutdown untilthere's some sort of thawing of
that ice.
What that means for the youknow, the the housing industry
real large in terms of of theshutdown, uh as of now, um I
(08:39):
think the impacts are minimalfor now.
Um what we are seeing, you know,the FHFA is is independently
funded, the the bankingregulators uh are independently
funded.
So that they're operating asnormal.
Um however, you know, theresidual impacts of a shutdown
(09:01):
when you have potentiallymillions of Americans missing
paychecks, that can weigh downthe economy red large.
That can weigh down, I mean,every every other one of those
federal uh employees likely hasa mortgage, right?
Um they they have car payments,they have bills, they have
tuition payments just likeeveryone else.
(09:22):
And uh if people are missingpaychecks, people are more
likely to potentially misspayments.
And the aggregate effect of thatwe will presumably uh and
potentially see in the market.
Uh, we will see in people,Americans writ large reducing uh
(09:44):
their consumer spending.
Again, this is a a long, a moreyou know lengthy projection, uh,
but it's also you know, theseare the limited reasons why it's
in no policymakers' bestinterest to allow for a
prolonged shutdown.
Uh the effects can be minimal ifthe length is minimal.
(10:05):
Uh, but if we're if we'retalking you know, more than a
month, more than two months, uhthat starts weighing down on the
economy as a whole.
unknown (10:15):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (10:16):
So I mean, all right, so you just threw out a
lot, right?
And here we are, what, 13 days,a couple hours in, et cetera.
The longest shutdown part ofthis was what 35 days, right?
All right.
So when we think about and I Iand thank you very much for kind
of bringing up how hey, there ismay not be uh an effect today,
(10:40):
but there's gonna be an effecttomorrow the longer this
progresses on, mispayments, etc.
Now, one of the things thatcould be impacted today, I mean,
because correct me if I'm wrong,we're still very much in you
know hurricane season, right?
Um flood insurance.
You know, it's it's pretty muchlapsed.
(11:02):
Yeah, lapsed, and and right now,what happens okay again, worst
case, I know act of guidancething.
What happens when when there ifwhen and if there is a
hurricane, you know thosestates, those cities, wherever
you frame up, those communitiesare gonna be completely
(11:22):
vulnerable.
But every single mortgagecompany who has servicing rights
in that in that territory couldbe crippled.
That's right.
SPEAKER_02 (11:35):
And and it's even been you know, I've seen
commentary over recent weekswhere it's you know, would this
would this have ever gotten thisfar had there been a major
hurricane heading towards theeast coast?
Um in past shutdowns, Congresshas notoriously uh taken up
(11:58):
individual bills to address someof these issues.
So in the in the last uhshutdown, they passed a
standalone extension uh for NFIPfor the flood insurance program.
They also passed a standaloneextension for troop pay, uh for
FAA authorization that waslapsing at the time because the
(12:19):
dates coincided.
They have the ability to dothis.
They can do it uh in minutesbecause you can voice vote
something like this in theHouse.
You can unanimo you can do itvia unanimous consent in the
Senate.
And the fact that they thatneither side has attempted to do
this yet, um, that leadershiphas not, you know, forced the
(12:42):
issue to the floor, uh, kind ofshows the result that both sides
either uh think that they arewinning this argument or both
sides know they are losing thisargument.
Um, you know, the currentpolling out there on the
shutdown because there's a pollfor everything.
The current polling shows, youknow, 33% on average, you know,
(13:05):
33% of Americans blame theDemocrats, 33% of Americans
blame the Republicans, but amajority, or at least the
plurality of those poll blameboth parties, right?
And if if neither party has theupper hand, it it can further
that mentality of trench warfarethat we're kind of seeing right
(13:27):
now, barring some you know majoraction forcing event.
Uh it it seems that the theDemocratic position is that they
are better positioned to havethat breakthrough with the
president himself, a directnegotiation with the president.
Um, you know, uh President Trumpis looking down the pike at the
(13:48):
midterms as well.
And and you know, everyone knowsthat having these subsidies
lapse or having a hurricane uhmaterialize in the Gulf next
week, those are not those arenot good problems, right?
Regardless of the of thepoliticking over um, you know,
(14:10):
the the current shutdown, thoseare real problems, right?
Federal work federal workersmissing their paychecks are real
problems.
And so far, these are umtheoretical, but they can become
real very quickly.
And um I, you know, it it's ait's a valid point.
Uh I'm personally shocked thatthey did not just do a voice
(14:33):
voted uh NFIP extension, butit's certainly on the minds of
others uh up there on the hillas to you know what catastrophic
effects that could have if ifnot dealt with at the right
time.
SPEAKER_03 (14:47):
Okay, so you know that's obviously flood major.
That could be major disasters,deadly.
But also when we when we look atother things that could be
impacted, correct me if I'mwrong, but the nef the next FOMC
meeting is right beforeHalloween.
(15:09):
Are they still able to meet oreven vote on the state of
interest rates?
Because I think I read somewherethat uh was it not consumer
confidence?
Um there's one poll.
Maybe it is consumer confidence.
Um it won't be able to bepublished because of this
shutdown.
SPEAKER_02 (15:30):
That's possible.
Um I so I mean the the the theFederal Reserve itself, I I I
think that they can meet um theuh but but offices that are
critical to the inner workingsof the federal government.
So whether it's the governmentprinting office or whether it's
the Bureau of Labor Statisticsputting out jobs numbers, those
those items do not come out ifthere are not humans working in
(15:54):
those departments to put outthat data, right?
And that these are perfectexamples of the ripple effects
that uh, you know, I think weall take for granted, right?
It's like, you know, it's it'sit's Friday jobs reporting day,
right?
Yeah, it it is if thegovernment's open, right?
But it's not if it's not, right?
We have you're seeing this, youknow, you're seeing this
(16:16):
starting to bubble up in theairport, right?
You can deem as many peopleessential as you want in these
critical positions, but whenpeople start miss missing
paychecks for, you know, for forearned, you know, hours earned,
pay earned, um you're gonnastart seeing people call out,
right?
And you're starting to see that,you know, uh at various airports
(16:40):
across the country.
I think it only gets worse,right?
Where uh, you know, now may be agood time to use some sick days,
right?
Um all of this in the aggregate,you know, creates problems.
You know, we will see it, youknow, the longer it goes, we
will see it in you know economicand on this forecasts on what
that does to the next quarterlyGDP report, right?
(17:04):
We've seen that in the pastwhere the GDP has taken a dip
because of a federal shutdown.
And the last one, what made itum slightly different is that it
was a partial federal shutdown.
So there was um, for example,the the DOD and I think Homeland
Security and a handful of othercabinet departments, they were
fully funded, right?
(17:24):
So that also took some pressureout.
This is a full governmentshutdown, and we haven't had one
of these in in quite some time.
So the the dynamics are slightlydifferent.
The other thing I will say isthe reason that this has the
propensity to uh get worsebefore it gets better is that
the you know the administrationhas made some recent
(17:47):
announcements on furtherreductions in force, uh commonly
referred to as RIFs.
Uh the we saw a lot of RIFsearlier this year, um, you know,
several hundred thousand federalworkers, either uh the positions
or the departments terminated,or uh federal buyouts, etc.
(18:09):
So the doge activities at thebeginning of the of this
administration and this Congressled to several hundred thousand
um federal workers having theirjobs eliminated in one way or
the other.
We're starting to see those RIFnotices being reported um you
know going into the end of lastweek.
And um, you know, I'm justreading the news here at this
(18:31):
point, but the the the OMBdirector uh you know announced
that the RIFs would focus on uhpriorities and programs that are
important to Democrats.
And that is another kind oflever in this uh you know, tit
for tat between the Democratsand Republicans, where they're
(18:53):
going to attempt to applypressure on the Democrats to uh
to you know to move their votesinto the S column.
And one RIF notice that we sawgoing into the weekend or
reports of about said RIF isaround the CDFI fund.
Right?
So the CDFI fund's already beenum a target for reduction and or
(19:18):
you know uh abolition, uh uh,you know, abolishment in in you
know the last year.
And there was a lot ofstakeholder pressure,
congressional pressure thatpushed back on that, you know,
that attempt last year.
What what was reported goinginto the weekend is that
essentially the the remainingCDFI staff will be uh will be
(19:42):
have their positions terminatedthrough a formal RIF notice,
which has a kind of a 60-day andin some cases 30-day timeline,
right?
Uh, but then it begs thequestion what do you what do you
do with a congressionallymandated program with
congressionally mandatedspending, money mandated to go
out the doors, if there are nohumans there to administer that
(20:06):
distribution of funds.
And so you will see, you know,you will see plenty of reporting
around the you know the legalityof this or the you know the
constitutional you knowdisagreements around this.
Um, but at the end of the day,it's it is another tactic in you
know that that one side is usingas an arrow in their quiver, uh,
(20:29):
you know, against the other sidewho has you know their own
respective arrows.
In the in the midst of that,though, the we're talking about
you know in real real worldimpacts, you know, for credit
unions, you know, there areseveral hundred, you know north
of 500 CDFI credit unions,right?
And this creates a level ofuncertainty uh that is has not
(20:55):
is not paralleled in in recentmemory for for these for these
credit unions.
And I and I think this is thevery beginning, and I I trust
that this will be resolvedbecause the support for the CDFI
fund and the support for CDFIinstitutions is so strong in
Congress.
It's bipartisan, it's alwaysbeen bipartisan, that I I do
(21:18):
think there will be resolution,but it is yet another example of
you know the the the collateraldamage that a federal shutdown
causes because these variousprograms and entities and
institutions involved becomekind of pawns in the chess game.
SPEAKER_03 (21:37):
So kind of going back to the rifts, you know, one
of the if I I I think I readthis, but it either already
happened or it's going tohappen.
But HUD is is one of thoseagencies that that's on that
list to be further displaced.
Is that correct?
(21:58):
That's right.
So I mean uh again, the I won'tsay it's the long-standing
impacts.
Now, would you consider thatthese I'm I'm kind of pivoting
real quick, so please forgiveme.
Would you say like if someone isdisplaced, you know, and they
(22:19):
they kind of fall into thatriver and we'll say they're at
HUD, is this a temporary thingor is it like where they can be
hired back, or is this theadministrative's move to
continue with, like you said,the hinting at the doge stuff?
SPEAKER_02 (22:35):
So so that this is where I think it gets kind of
murky.
Um it again, I and I am not a uhI am not a RIF uh expert by any
means.
Um that this has not been a toolthat has been uh used uh to
great degree over the years.
But um, if my understanding iscorrect, in addition to having a
(22:58):
you know a timeline for this um,you know, the the execution of
the RIF itself, right?
So the the the offboarding ofthe the federal workforce
headcount in that given programor department, um, I think that
there are there are requirementson the back end of that protocol
that says in the future, uh RIFTemployees of that program must
(23:26):
be given first precedence forany rehiring that uh ensues, you
know, in in in the you know inthe months or years ahead,
right?
So if you are, you know, ifyou're in one of the you know,
if you're in the acme divisionand you're selling this widget,
if you get laid off via a RIF,and then that ACME division
(23:50):
turns around two months laterand puts out a job posting for
the same position and the samequalifications, my understanding
is that they have to be givenkind of right of first refusal
for for the position.
Now, I think it is way lessclear than that.
And I think there are uh youknow a million ways to to go
(24:12):
about this, but theoretically,that is how it it that that is
how it it should work.
But again, if if you're if yourposition is terminated and
you're out there on the on youknow it in the in the market and
you get a new job, like do youhave interest in coming back to
the position that you just gotlaid off of?
In some cases, probably not.
(24:33):
But what you're seeing is um anyreversion on those decisions
happens really quickly, right?
Uh they announced similarly, youknow, they announced like 400 um
planned terminations at at HUD.
They also announced hundredsover at the Center for D Disease
(24:53):
Control.
And then within 24 hours,something like two or three
hundred of these uh thesedisease specialists got hired
back immediately.
Like, okay, you know, we weovershot the bow there, right?
Come back in.
Um, because once you lose thattalent, it is it is hard to get
that back, right?
I mean, have you I'm not I'm notsupposing that you you've ever
(25:16):
applied for a federal positionon on USA jobs, but the process
for federal hiring is lengthy,um, as you might expect, right?
It it's the it's the federalgovernment, it's the largest
employer in the United States.
They have, you know, it it isquite the process.
So hiring people back is is isnot the easiest thing.
So any decision on that frontneeds to be made sooner rather
(25:40):
than later.
SPEAKER_03 (25:42):
Appreciate you walking us through that.
All right.
So I think we need to, I don'twant to say cheer things up a
bit.
Um, but at least at least it'ssome private or some positive
news.
Well, let's go over.
So in our last episode, youknow, uh Ann Marie did an
excellent job of helping ussummarize you know the road to
housing.
You know, you know, I think youand I have talked in the past
(26:05):
offline and you know, not onair.
You know, that this is really aninstrumental or could be a
significant um decision acrosson on Capitol Hill that will
actually help.
I don't say the housing crisis,but I'm gonna say the housing
crisis that actually could helpthe housing crisis.
(26:27):
Recently there's been somepositive momentum.
So why don't you kind of sharewhat that is?
SPEAKER_02 (26:32):
Sure.
Um and and yeah, I I I think thebest way to describe it is it's
a start, right?
Um it it it is notable, if notfor anything else, that it is
probably the largest piece ofhousing legislation that has
come out of Congress in recentmemory.
Um and it somehow uh passed outof the Senate Banking Committee
(26:57):
unanimously.
Um there is a wide ideologicalspectrum on the Senate Banking
Committee.
Uh both Chairman Scott and uhRanking Member Warren should be
commended for their ability toum, you know, to to bridge those
gaps.
And, you know, in part it's allabout compromise, right?
This bill is really a uh anamalgamation of several dozen,
(27:21):
or I think close to you know 40or 50 individual pieces of
legislation that were kind ofpieced together into various
titles uh that that made thethat ultimately made the Road to
Housing Act.
Um in the midst of all of thedoom and gloom that I just
walked through, uh the Senateshowed just last week, at the
(27:42):
end of the week, right beforethey left town, that Senate
magic still exists.
Um Senate magic is a a term thatyou know we in the industry
refer to when the Senate wantsto do something, they can do it.
Uh and they can do it quick.
The Senate is not known forbeing quick on anything, but
whenever they uh when theyemploy Senate magic, they can
(28:04):
they can do things at lightningspeed.
And they did just that.
They languished through the weekwith no um no results on
government funding, and theyturned around and reached an
agreement on a series ofstandalone amendments and a
manager's amendment package uhthat had uh you know a wide
(28:25):
assortment of provisions in it,and they held a series of you
know, 20-some odd votes andpassed the Senate NDAA.
The Senate NDAA had been kind ofwritten off for dead, and most
assumed that the process wouldsimply move into the background
(28:46):
uh in an informal conferencinguh between the two chambers.
But they moved it throughregular order, and so it gave
everyone a glimpse that you knowit it's still possible to do,
you know, robust public policywork in this environment.
That said, um, you know, the theas you mentioned, the Road to
(29:07):
Housing Act was earlier in theprocess submitted as an
amendment to the NDAA.
Uh it it it got uh it gotincluded, uh it passed out late
last week.
And so now where it sits is theSenate has passed its version of
the NDAA, the House has passedits version of the NDAA, and now
(29:32):
the two chambers um are eithergoing to do a formal conference
where they appoint they appointconferees from both chambers.
This is usually like members ofleadership, uh the committee
chairs, uh, committee rankingmembers over um, you know, for
committees that havejurisdiction over various
provisions of the bill.
(29:52):
And then these two groups ofconferees then technically meet
in conference.
And hash out their differences.
In reality, they may meet onlyonce.
They may meet twice.
But in practicality, all oftheir respective senior staff
who are responsible for writingthis bill are meeting
(30:16):
frequently, right?
They're making trades, they'reyou know refining the language,
etc.
The challenge for the Road toHousing Act is it has clearly
robust Senate support, right?
In addition to passing out ofthe committee unanimously, uh it
(30:36):
passed several thresholds beforeit was ultimately included in uh
in the Senate version.
It passed what are known ashotlines, meaning like the
Senate leadership Republicansand the Senate leadership
Democrats will run a quoteunquote hotline for their
respective caucuses before thatamendment or bill is going to
(30:59):
come to the floor for a vote.
And it's kind of think of it aslike a pre-vote, like, hey,
we're gonna put this on thefloor.
If anybody has objections, letus know now so we can speed
things up once we get there.
Uh, and if everyone signs off,then that means that uh it
passed that initial litmus testand then it's included.
The challenge is that the House,not only do they not have the
(31:21):
Road to Housing Act, they don'thave anything comparable to a
counterpart.
So they're gonna go into thisconference setting, and you're
gonna have this robust Senatesupport for road to housing, and
you're going to have at best umtepid support or at least
indifference from the Houseside.
(31:43):
So it will be the job ofChairman Scott and Ranking
Member Warren to, you know,fight for this in the conference
committee to convince theirhouse counterparts that they
should come along on this andthat they'll, you know, they'll
throw their support behind otherHouse initiatives or the House
members, the you know, FrenchHill, Maxine Waters, they may
(32:07):
come to the table with uh withsome other legislative
priorities that they want totrade on, right?
Because when you get into thisconference committee, you have
what's known as the fourcorners, the big four corners,
and the small four corners.
Big four corners are House andSenate leadership.
So that's the speaker, theSenate majority leader, and
their respective um minoritycounterparts.
(32:29):
And then you have the littlefour corners, which are the
committee chairs and thecommittee ranking members of
that committee of jurisdictionover the bill.
So the little four corners, whenthey meet, they may say the
Senate folks may say, we wantthe Road to Housing Act
included.
Please, you know, sign off onthis.
French Hill and Elizabeth Moore,or French Hill and Maxine Waters
(32:53):
may say, uh, that's fine, but uhwe want this French Hill bill
and we want this Maxine Watersbill.
And traditionally, all foursides need to sign off on
something for inclusion if it isoutside the traditional scope of
the NDAA, which the Road toHousing Act obviously is.
It is not a defense-relatedprovision.
(33:15):
So um it has a road to go forthe road to housing, but it is
in a much better place than itwas last week because it has
legislative history now.
It has history of you know beingsupported and voted both in the
committee and on the Senatefloor, and going into you know
the next several weeks, it it'llbe positioned as as good as it
(33:35):
can be going into thisconversation, which they
hopefully uh hope to wrap up byThanksgiving.
unknown (33:41):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (33:43):
Yeah, before we wrap up, I I just have one uh maybe
it's a ridiculous question, butI'll call it a ridiculous
question.
Yeah, well, I mean, I I knowthat this still has uh a ways to
go, and I I know that it stillhas very many hurdles to jump
through.
(34:05):
But this seems to be a positivething that you're not really
hearing about in the news.
Is this just being overshadowedby everything else that's
happening?
SPEAKER_02 (34:20):
Oh, 100%.
Uh I mean all of the all of theenergy and political capital in
DC is is being sucked into thisuh federal shutdown vortex,
right?
Um uh in your face politics andcombative politics makes for
(34:43):
better cable news coverage,right?
Um D DC outlets aren't uh youknow particularly known for
covering the wonkier side of oflegislation until there becomes
something of a contention point,right?
Um I think for something toreach the level of of that
(35:05):
coverage, it it ends it, youknow, it usually starts uh
partisan, right?
So you look at things like theyou know, the Economic Recovery
Act or the you know the variousCOVID bills, and you saw all
that, you know, disagreementabout how to make that sausage.
Um when you have something uhyou know, again, this bill is is
(35:27):
less substantive and uh and thanthose pieces of legislation, but
when you have something thateverybody agrees on, um, you
know, I would argue that's kindof news in and of itself, right?
But um it it doesn't drive theit doesn't drive the viewership,
right?
So there are dozens of otherpieces of legislation out there
(35:50):
that have made significantprogress throughout this year
that are you know slowly movingthrough the schoolhouse rock
process, and they're not gettingany coverage as well because
where they are getting coverage,it's just being blanketed over
by the overarching shutdownnarrative or the overarching
Democrats versus Republicans orDemocrats versus the Trump
(36:11):
administration narrative.
And, you know, the the presidenthas the biggest megaphone in the
world.
And there's no president thathas better use that megaphone uh
to news coverage than PresidentTrump.
And, you know, he's been on uhhe's been on quite a um you
(36:32):
know, quite a tear recently withsome big news, right?
He he just got back from themiddle Middle East, um where he
was with the uh you know withMiddle Eastern and Israeli
leaders announcing the peacedeal.
The previous week he was youknow holding Oval Office uh uh
announcements with the big drugmakers and you know announcing
(36:54):
deals on that front.
He, you know, when he has anannouncement, he gets all the
coverage, right?
And so Congress is you know notgonna get the coverage on
something like this unlessthere's controversy involved.
SPEAKER_03 (37:11):
It's unfortunate.
Unfortunate.
Well well, Zach, thank you verymuch, as always.
It is politics, I know, and notonly that, it um it it's not it
doesn't produce ratings like allthe other ones, so I mean I get
it.
It's unfortunate.
I mean it it I don't want to sayit's a feel-good story, but it
it it like you said, it's it'sit's unanimous, it's bipartisan,
(37:33):
you know, it it shows that hey,in some way, shape, or form,
regardless of how you feel aboutour the current state of
government, it does still work,right?
If there's a message that'sagreed upon, right?
And and housing is can besomething they all agree upon.
So I don't know.
(37:54):
Anyways, I I I'll come off, I'llI'll come off my soapbox.
Well, anyway, Zach, we gottawrap up.
Thank you very much for foreverything that you do for us
and and for for being on today.
All right, thank you all.
Okay, and to close out, thankyou again to Lone Vision for
sponsoring today's episode.
And to all of you, we know yourtime is valuable.
Thank you for tuning in to thelatest episode of Acuma's On
(38:16):
Point Podcast.
We hope you enjoyed it.
Until next time, be well, myfriends.
SPEAKER_01 (38:20):
Thanks for listening.
We'll see you next time at theAcuma on Point Podcast.
If not already, be sure tosubscribe and give us a five
star rating.
For more great episodes andinformation, be sure to visit us
online at Acuma.org.
And to get the latest updates,head over to our LinkedIn page.
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