December 26, 2025 • 27 mins
Housing policy is moving, stalling, and evolving all at once, so we brought in policy analyst Joel Herberman, from Brownstein Hyatt Farber Schreck, to cut through the noise. We begin with the Road to Housing Act, its removal from the defense bill, and how the House’s Housing for the 21st Century Act could still deliver meaningful reforms. From streamlined permitting to higher FHA loan limits and modern definitions that encompass modular and prefab, we identify the areas of genuine bipartisan overlap and the sticking points that will require genuine negotiation and a reliable legislative vehicle to support them.
We delve into small-dollar mortgages and the affordability conundrum. Joel explains how points-and-fees adjustments or competent pilots could make sub-$200,000 loans workable again in markets that need them most. Credit unions are well-positioned to lead in this area, filling the gap where commission-driven models often overlook low-balance loans. Tie that to modular and prefab growth, and you get a practical pathway to expand entry-level homeownership without compromising safety and soundness.
Then we turn to the CFPB leadership extensions, legal battles over funding, and what lenders should watch while the courts weigh in. The Bureau’s agenda isn’t disappearing, but timing and intensity may swing. We conclude with the January shutdown odds, what a partial funding landscape means for agencies, and a forward look at 2026: renewed GSE reform efforts, potential stock market movements, and a push for federal-level AI rules to avoid a 50-state patchwork. Throughout, we share practical steps for credit unions and mortgage teams to stay resilient with strong cash management, clear member communication, and model governance as AI matures.
If this helped you make sense of a chaotic policy map, follow the show, share it with a colleague, and leave a quick review so others can find it. What housing reform do you want Congress to prioritize next?
Sponsored by Loan Vision.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
The views and opinions expressed in this
podcast do not necessarilyreflect the views or positions
of Acuma, its board ofdirectors, its management staff,
or its members.
The podcast discussion presentedis conversational in nature and
for general information only.
SPEAKER_02 (00:27):
This is Activism On Point Podcast.
On today's episode, we'll get anupdate on the road to housing,
we'll talk about the CPB, andmaybe hint at a possible
shutdown in late January.
But before we get to ourepisode, just a quick word from
our sponsor.
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
This episode is being brought to you by
LoanVision.
Is your credit union looking toturn your accounting department
into a profit driver?
Loan Vision can help.
Our platform delivers real-timedata, low-level insights, and
automation to streamlineworkflows and improve control
over financial performance.
(01:09):
Transform your cost centers intorevenue generators by equipping
your team with the tools neededto better serve your members.
And don't miss our monthlywebinar series where we share
key strategies and bestpractices to help credit unions
optimize their mortgageoperations.
Register today atwww.lonevision.com under our
(01:33):
upcoming events page.
SPEAKER_02 (01:36):
Hello, welcome to Acton Point Podcast, a series
folks on sharing the stories ofpeople who are making a positive
impact in the credit unionmortgage industry.
I'm your host, Peter Benjamin.
Today I am joined by ourresident expert, our first
timer, Joel Horberman, policyanalyst with Brownstein.
Joel, how are you doing?
Welcome to the pod for the firsttime.
SPEAKER_03 (01:58):
And what's what's going on?
Doing well, Peter.
Thanks so much for having me on.
Really excited to join the pod.
SPEAKER_02 (02:06):
Love it.
Love it.
Now, this is you know, you know,what's what's the saying?
You know, um, longtime listener,first-time caller.
Um excited to have you here.
Um, for those that don't know,Joel is really, you know, the
the brains behind a lot of ourWashington and policy insights.
Uh, so it's it's really good tohave him on to kind of give you
(02:29):
the the latest update as we wrapup the year.
All right, Joel.
So let's kind of go down thatlist that we talked about
pre-recording, pre-podcast, uh,several topics I think uh a lot
of our our listeners are reallyinterested in.
So, first up, you know, one ofmy favorite topics, let's let's
(02:50):
start with road.
So, what's going on with theroad to housing?
SPEAKER_03 (02:55):
Yeah, so I mean that is really kind of the big, the
big thing in housing policyright now.
Um, I think as noted in in someof the prior podcast episodes,
um that the Road to Housing Actwas attached to the fiscal year
2026 Defense Bill, which is oneof those policy pieces that
(03:15):
pretty much every single year itmoves.
I think this is on pace to bethe 65th straight year.
Um, and so the Senate had it inthere.
Um, the House version did not.
Over the last couple of weeks,there was a conference process
to kind of decide what will makeit in the end.
(03:35):
And unfortunately, the Road toHousing Act ended up falling
out.
Um, one of the main sources ofopposition was um, you know, on
the House Financial ServicesCommittee, they really had not
yet put together their housingpackage.
Um, they really wanted to havesome input into the process.
The government shutdown inOctober really kind of slowed
(03:59):
down the House FinancialServices uh kind of effort on
housing.
They were supposed to have ahearing and then a markup in
October and kind of haveeverything ready.
Those plans were delayed.
They had to push back toDecember.
And so uh just in a couple ofdays from the recording of this
podcast, they are planning tomark up a bill called the
(04:23):
Housing for the 21st CenturyAct.
And so looking through both thatbill and the Road to Housing
Act, there are roughly 10provisions that are the same.
So they have both House andSenate buy-in.
And um there are also some thatare, of course, different.
The Road to Housing Act um has,you know, some provisions on
(04:47):
appraisers, a points and feesprovision that would allow the
CFPB to um, you know, kind ofencourage a little bit more
small dollar lending.
The House bill takes a littlebit of a different approach
using kind of a pilot programthat could be put in place.
(05:07):
And so uh, you know, the Housebill hasn't been marked up yet,
but we'll kind of see in thislast week in session how that
goes.
It's expected to receive broadbipartisan support since it has
buy-in from both Chairman Hilland ranking member Waters.
And so heading into the newyear, the package could be
(05:30):
considered on the floor if itmakes it out of the committee.
And ultimately, um for somethingto get signed into law, there's
gonna be one.
There needs to be bipartisan orsorry, bicameral coordination
between the House and Senate ona lot of these housing pieces,
as well as a vehicle for it toride on.
(05:50):
There's a chance that it couldgo standalone, but things ride
typically a lot easier if if youknow it's attached to a spending
bill or something like thedefense bill.
SPEAKER_02 (06:03):
All right.
So, you know, question.
So you obviously have the thehouse bill, which is dropped on
Thursday, you know, Hill andWaters are behind it.
Um now, do you see at any pointin time that when you have these
two, these two bills, you know,road and I think you said um
(06:24):
housing in the 21st century, um,do you just see like the end
product just being married up,you know, the two kind of being
combined when it's all said anddone, and that's what ends up
going through?
Or are they gonna be twoindependent bills that kind of
have to fight it out for who forsupremacy?
SPEAKER_03 (06:44):
Yeah, so I think it's really gonna be a mix of
the two.
You know, the the House rejectedthe Senate's bill, the Senate
isn't gonna take the House'sbill.
I mean, it's it's a very goodsign to see that there are some
provisions that overlap betweenthe two.
You would think that those wouldhave a good chance of getting
through, um, some of which are aprovision to kind of alter the
(07:09):
permitting process for smallhousing projects, increasing FHA
loan limits, and making somechanges to the definitions of um
manufactured housing to includemodular and prefab.
So those pieces and some more,like that's a great starting
point for you know a kind ofcompromise package that'll need
(07:32):
to be hashed out.
Um, but yeah, there are somepieces like HUD's home program.
Both bills take kind of aseparate approach, which will
need to be reconciled.
And there are some provisionsthat um will definitely need to
be to be hashed out before youknow something is agreed upon in
(07:53):
in both chambers.
SPEAKER_02 (07:55):
Now, do you like using your crystal ball?
I mean, obviously, it we youknow, here we are.
I mean, you know, this is youknow, the the house bill at this
point in time is, you know, bythe time we get to it, you know,
by the time this podcast isreleased, it's only gonna be
about two weeks old.
Um but did the the house billinclude, and keep in mind, I
(08:17):
haven't looked at it yet, buthas it included you know the
small dollar amount lending andkind of clarifications around
that?
You know, because you know thatwas one thing that I was
particularly watching becausewas the small dollar amount was
being established at what200,000?
You know, and and the reason whyI was look really looking at
that is because I think youcredit unions can really fill
(08:42):
that void in that small dollaramount lending, whereas others
might be hesitant to do it.
Like, you know, oftentimes whenyou have when you pay you know a
loan officer based off of theircommissions based off a dollar
amount, you know, that$200,000loan is really just going to get
ignored, right?
They're they're they're gonna goout for that$500,000,$600,000
(09:05):
and kind of just push that$200,000 loan amount off to the
side.
And so, you know, gettinggetting that portion of road
through, and even if it's partof you know the housing in the
21st century, you know, thatright there is a niche that I I
personally see credit unionsreally mastering and capturing
(09:30):
and people coming to creditunions more than the any other
lender.
So just I I know I kind of justrambled a bit, so I apologize,
but was that that small dollaramount loan or limit included in
that that house bill?
SPEAKER_03 (09:47):
Yeah, so unfortunately it was not
included.
Um there was an additional smalldollar mortgage provision that
would have that would establishlike a pilot program on ways
that um you know there could bedirect loans to borrowers for
(10:08):
FHA loans, as well as somesupport for closing costs, which
is title insurance.
Um and just thinking that likeboth the House bill and the
Senate bill have that bipartisanbuy and that bipartisan support,
I wouldn't think that any billor any provision that's not
included in one couldn'teventually end up in the final
(10:32):
package.
Um this will really need to behashed out between the
leadership in both the SenateBanking Committee and House
Financial Services Committees.
And you know, I I don't thinkanything's really off the table,
even if one provision wasn'tincluded in the other bill.
SPEAKER_02 (10:51):
Yeah, it's good to know.
I mean, because I mean if you'regonna talk, you know, this is
just me, me talking, but it youknow, if if you know lawmakers,
policymakers, if if they'regoing to truly talk about you
know redefining you knowmanufactured housing to include
modular and what it actuallymeans to originate those types
(11:15):
of loans, and if that's part ofthe focus, you you really have
to include that small dollaramount provision in there as
well, because they really go,they're one, I they're almost
one and the same, in my opinion.
Now, you know, you you couldargue on the opposite side that
they're totally different, butyou know, if we really are going
to solve the affordabilitycrisis in this country, giving
(11:39):
lenders, not just credit unions,but lenders in general the
ability to originate a loan at200,000 and not have to have so
much concern or about highcosts.
I mean, that that's extremelyimportant, right?
For us to kind of move thisneedle forward on expanding
homeownership.
Anyways, uh, I'll come off mysoapbox.
(12:00):
Let's kind of move on to anotherone of my favorite topics.
I'm so happy you proposed this.
SPEAKER_03 (12:07):
You know, what's going on with the CPB?
Yeah, it is a it's a very commonquestion these days.
There has been so many differenttwists and turns throughout this
year.
And so just most recently, onething that we're watching just
kind of on the leadership sideof things, the administration
(12:32):
nominated a uh senior OMBofficial who has a background in
natural resources and energypolicy, named Stuart Levenbach,
to serve as the CFPB director inaround mid-November, which
caught kind of everyone bysurprise.
Um, and you know, this thishappened as the acting CFPB
(12:57):
director Russ Vaught.
His term is set to expire.
Like he wouldn't be able toserve unless someone else was
nominated.
It's part of uh the FederalVacancies Reform Act.
And so the CFEB pretty muchconfirmed that this nomination
was just put in place to ensurethat acting director vote can
(13:20):
continue to stay on.
And I believe that's until aboutMay or June of 2026 that this
kind of procedural move willallow him to continue on.
And so, you know, now that thatkind of leadership question is
addressed, there is still thevery big question over the
(13:42):
CFPV's funding.
Of course, um the agency iscontinuing to rely on a DOJA
legal opinion that argues thatany funds it receives outside of
Federal Reserve profits orcombined earnings uh are just
generally unlawful.
And so the in a recent CFUBcourt filing, they said that
(14:04):
they expect to remain inoperation through the new year.
But just over the last couple ofweeks, the Federal Reserve has
recently returned toprofitability, which uh could
sort of complicate or maybeundermine some of the Bureau's
um arguments that it won't beable to operate, um, that they
(14:26):
will have to kind of take someof these funds.
And so, I mean, the courts rightnow are really the place to
watch uh to kind of learn whatwhat the future of the Bureau is
gonna end up being.
Um there really haven't been toomany developments in the last
couple of weeks, but um, ofcourse, the CFPV has a pretty
(14:47):
pretty big agenda um that wasreleased just a few a few months
ago.
And so um, you know, this kindof legal question overhang is
really kind of at the heart ofwhat's going on, and and really,
yeah, looking at the courtdockets, seeing what seeing what
happens is really kind of thethe key right now.
SPEAKER_02 (15:10):
You know, this one's interesting because it it's out
of you know all the topics we wecommonly talk about, right?
This one, I don't want to say itreads like a soap opera, but it
it has that much drama behindit, right?
And it's so far reaching thatyou almost have to kind of take
(15:34):
a step back and and and questionin not so much in a bad way, but
you have to question, okay,well, what's really gonna happen
next?
Because you know, we've talkedabout in the past with you know
with with you in conversation,but and you know, not so much on
this recording, but you inconversation.
We've talked about it with AM,we talked about with Zach, we
talked about with Leah.
(15:55):
You know, you can strip down theCPB all you want, right?
And you can get to a point whereyou have a director over uh a
two-person, you know, bureau,but at any point in time,
especially under a newadministration, this thing, this
(16:17):
this animal could come back youknow tenfold and really uh
change things up you know in adifferent way.
So it's really just fascinatingto watch how they're they're
almost uh stripping those theCPB down to really represent
(16:39):
almost nothing, but it's stilllike the you know, the two
hundred, you know, the the 2,000pound gorilla that you're just
trying to cage.
That's all you're trying to do,right?
I think that's probably the bestanalogy.
Um, you can cage it, buteventually, you know, it's gonna
get loose, I guess.
I don't know.
So very fascinating on CPB.
(17:01):
Just really just fascinating.
Um and I like how they it's sojust a question on on the the
person who they have nominatedfor director of the CPB, this
person from uh OMB.
Is this just another one ofthose ploys to kind of keep VOT
in control?
(17:21):
And eventually this person'sgonna withdraw and you're gonna
go we're gonna go through thisprocess again, and just we're
almost like kicking the VOT candown the road, just keeping him
in control.
SPEAKER_03 (17:33):
Yeah, so I believe under the Federal Vacancy Reform
Act, not 100% certain on this,but I think there can only be
two nominee withdrawals to keepin an acting.
Interesting.
Yeah, so the first one, ofcourse, was Jonathan McKernan,
who was nominated back in May2025, and then now the second
(17:57):
one is is Levinbach.
Um, of course, the the Senatebanking has no intentions of
holding a nomination hearing forthat nomination.
And so I think it if if theBureau is still funded and and
has stuff going on in kind oflate spring 2026, early summer,
(18:20):
they could there could be apotential new uh new nominee,
but um that's that is that isvery far in the future for Edna.
Very far.
Very far.
SPEAKER_02 (18:29):
All right.
I almost feel silly asking aboutthis one because I feel like we
just went through this processof talking about it a lot, but
here we are, January 30th isright around the corner.
You know, what is going on witha potential government shutdown,
(18:51):
the likelihood, et cetera, etcetera, et cetera.
I mean, what's what's well givegive us an update on any
possible shutdown that couldhappen in January?
SPEAKER_03 (19:02):
Yeah, so since the continuing resolution that ended
the longest shutdown in in UShistory, which took place in uh
November, there really has notbeen much of or any progress on
fiscal year 26 appropriations inCongress.
(19:23):
There have been kind of talks inthe Senate of getting kind of a
package of five of the 12required appropriations bills to
get through.
As of now, it's really been alltalk.
Nothing has really happened.
This the House and Senate alsoremain very far apart on their
(19:44):
kind of top line spendingnumbers.
And so just looking at thecalendar, we're pretty much done
with 2025.
In January, the House and Senatewill only both be in session
when they're Both chambers arethere for two weeks, and then
(20:04):
the House will be in, and thenthe Senate will just be in.
And so there's there are veryfew kind of legislative days
ahead before this January 30thdeadline.
And so we we're probably lookingat another continuing
resolution.
And honestly, probably a lot ofthe same sort of dynamics will
(20:25):
be at play um between potentialshutdown coming up and also the
one that happened from September30th all the way to
mid-November.
And just one caveat that's alittle bit different that might
be a little bit different thistime.
Along with the continuingresolution that passed in
(20:45):
November, three of the 12 fiscalyear 26 appropriations bills
also were signed into law.
And so those cover like theagricultural, agriculture
department, veterans affairs,um, and a few others.
And so that accounts for roughly10 to 11 percent of federal
(21:07):
funding.
And so that will that wouldremain in place if if there is a
shutdown, as well as SNAP wouldbe fully funded.
So, you know, that was a bigissue in during the shutdown uh
in in October, November, thatthat would be off the table um
if if there were to be ashutdown in in February.
SPEAKER_02 (21:28):
Interesting.
All right, so I think that doesbring up a good you know
transition to uh you know thefinal topic, you know, in
addition to potential, you know,early 2026 shutdown.
Again, I I stress the wordpotential.
What else kind of can you hintat uh when when we look at the
year ahead for 2026?
(21:51):
Um give us some insight as towhat we can expect.
SPEAKER_03 (21:55):
Yeah, so things will look a little bit different
there.
Of course, the midterms arecoming up in November 2026,
primaries are gonna start tobegin in uh winter and and
spring.
So kind of political partisandynamics might change a little
(22:16):
bit as you know, just governingwill get tougher with the
election coming up.
And just also on the calendarfor all of October, there's not
gonna be half-sort for Senate insession.
Um, and so it just makes thingsa little bit tougher.
And so just looking through thatcontext, some things we're we're
(22:37):
watching, you know, GSC reform,GSC privatization is of course a
really, really big topic.
Um the administration was kindof weighing an IPO, Fanny and
Freddie, uh, of some smallportion of their stock, which
didn't happen in 2025, but thatis something that could, you
(23:01):
know, certainly could happennext year.
And also the the House FinancialServices Committee is expected
to you know begin effortslooking at GSE reform um in the
first quarter of this year.
So that's certainly something tokeep an eye on.
And one other thing I thoughtI'd mention is um AI.
(23:24):
Of course, everyone is talkingabout artificial intelligence
right now.
Uh President Trump in earlyDecember released an executive
order seeking to limit stateregulation of AI, arguing that
we need a single framework.
We can't deal with 50 differentstates regulating AI.
(23:45):
And so it'll be interesting tosee, you know, if it withstands
potential legal challenges, ifCongress will seek to legislate
on this issue to make kind ofthe executive order permanent.
And uh just conversation aboutAI in general is really likely
to heat up.
It's become it was a topic inthe 2025 off-year elections on
(24:10):
data centers, energy policy,potential restrictions on AI.
And I think that's just going tocontinue to become more and more
of an issue as we as we goforward.
SPEAKER_02 (24:21):
Yeah, I'm I'm glad you mentioned that.
It's because you know, it's mostcertainly on the minds of a lot
of our members, you know, thedirection of AI, you know,
another fascinating topic.
You know, AI really evolvesfaster than you know the
politicians can sit down towrite the opening paragraph to
(24:41):
any potential bill.
And you know, it would be goodto get some direction, you know,
especially from a lendingstandpoint, as to you know, how
we can approach this.
But but also, I mean, we we Ithink for the sake of our
members, you know, we wecontinue to suggest that they
adopt AI um as a way to makethings more efficient, not
(25:01):
replace but improve efficiency.
Um and so this is a good exampleof something that is as far
reaching, impacts a lot ofdifferent industries um that you
know a lot of our our membersare really keeping, I don't want
to say close eye, but they'redefinitely paying attention to.
(25:22):
Now, you know, as we also, youknow, you mentioned you know in
2026 midterm elections.
I mean, at that point in time,do you feel like we get a good
sense of uh the new direction ofthe of the House and Senate?
Um, yeah, obviously midterm, andobviously we'll we'll have you
know the towards the end of theyear elections, but do you have
(25:46):
at that point in time, do yousee any type of change?
But also, I guess the secondpart of that is you know, by the
midterms, we we should get agood sense of who the Democratic
nominee is for the nextpresidential election, right?
Or who might be considered inthe running, right?
SPEAKER_03 (26:05):
Yeah, yeah, I think directly kind of after the
midterms, it'll the 2028election will pretty much begin
in earnest, regardless of ofwhat happens in the midterms.
Um there's also that kind oflame duck window when the 119th
Congress will be turning intothe 120th Congress, where there
(26:30):
can be some bipartisan dealmaking and and you know the
opportunity for things to to gothrough.
But um, yeah, I think prettymuch directly directly after the
midterms, we will we will enterthe 2028 race, which will be uh
quite a time.
SPEAKER_02 (26:49):
Yeah, that that that one's gonna be very interesting.
Uh I will say that.
Um but anyways, Joel, thank youvery much for your time today.
Truly do appreciate it.
Enjoyed the conversation.
Um as always appreciateeverything that you and the rest
of the Brownstein team does forAcima and our members.
So again, thank you very much.
Thanks so much, Peter.
(27:11):
Of course.
And to close out, thank youagain to Lone Vision for
sponsoring today's episode.
And to all of you, we know yourtime is valuable.
Thank you for tuning in to thelatest episode of Acuma's On
Point Podcast.
We hope you enjoyed it.
Until next time, be well, myfriends.
SPEAKER_01 (27:25):
Thanks for listening.
We'll see you next time at theAcuma on Point Podcast.
If not already, be sure tosubscribe and give us a five
star rating.
For more great episodes andinformation, be sure to visit us
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The views and opinions expressed in this
podcast do not necessarilyreflect the views or positions
of Acuma, its board ofdirectors, its management staff,
or its members.
The podcast discussion presentedis conversational in nature and
for general information only.
SPEAKER_02 (00:27):
This is Activism On Point Podcast.
On today's episode, we'll get anupdate on the road to housing,
we'll talk about the CPB, andmaybe hint at a possible
shutdown in late January.
But before we get to ourepisode, just a quick word from
our sponsor.
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
This episode is being brought to you by
LoanVision.
Is your credit union looking toturn your accounting department
into a profit driver?
Loan Vision can help.
Our platform delivers real-timedata, low-level insights, and
automation to streamlineworkflows and improve control
over financial performance.
(01:09):
Transform your cost centers intorevenue generators by equipping
your team with the tools neededto better serve your members.
And don't miss our monthlywebinar series where we share
key strategies and bestpractices to help credit unions
optimize their mortgageoperations.
Register today atwww.lonevision.com under our
(01:33):
upcoming events page.
SPEAKER_02 (01:36):
Hello, welcome to Acton Point Podcast, a series
folks on sharing the stories ofpeople who are making a positive
impact in the credit unionmortgage industry.
I'm your host, Peter Benjamin.
Today I am joined by ourresident expert, our first
timer, Joel Horberman, policyanalyst with Brownstein.
Joel, how are you doing?
Welcome to the pod for the firsttime.
SPEAKER_03 (01:58):
And what's what's going on?
Doing well, Peter.
Thanks so much for having me on.
Really excited to join the pod.
SPEAKER_02 (02:06):
Love it.
Love it.
Now, this is you know, you know,what's what's the saying?
You know, um, longtime listener,first-time caller.
Um excited to have you here.
Um, for those that don't know,Joel is really, you know, the
the brains behind a lot of ourWashington and policy insights.
Uh, so it's it's really good tohave him on to kind of give you
(02:29):
the the latest update as we wrapup the year.
All right, Joel.
So let's kind of go down thatlist that we talked about
pre-recording, pre-podcast, uh,several topics I think uh a lot
of our our listeners are reallyinterested in.
So, first up, you know, one ofmy favorite topics, let's let's
(02:50):
start with road.
So, what's going on with theroad to housing?
SPEAKER_03 (02:55):
Yeah, so I mean that is really kind of the big, the
big thing in housing policyright now.
Um, I think as noted in in someof the prior podcast episodes,
um that the Road to Housing Actwas attached to the fiscal year
2026 Defense Bill, which is oneof those policy pieces that
(03:15):
pretty much every single year itmoves.
I think this is on pace to bethe 65th straight year.
Um, and so the Senate had it inthere.
Um, the House version did not.
Over the last couple of weeks,there was a conference process
to kind of decide what will makeit in the end.
(03:35):
And unfortunately, the Road toHousing Act ended up falling
out.
Um, one of the main sources ofopposition was um, you know, on
the House Financial ServicesCommittee, they really had not
yet put together their housingpackage.
Um, they really wanted to havesome input into the process.
The government shutdown inOctober really kind of slowed
(03:59):
down the House FinancialServices uh kind of effort on
housing.
They were supposed to have ahearing and then a markup in
October and kind of haveeverything ready.
Those plans were delayed.
They had to push back toDecember.
And so uh just in a couple ofdays from the recording of this
podcast, they are planning tomark up a bill called the
(04:23):
Housing for the 21st CenturyAct.
And so looking through both thatbill and the Road to Housing
Act, there are roughly 10provisions that are the same.
So they have both House andSenate buy-in.
And um there are also some thatare, of course, different.
The Road to Housing Act um has,you know, some provisions on
(04:47):
appraisers, a points and feesprovision that would allow the
CFPB to um, you know, kind ofencourage a little bit more
small dollar lending.
The House bill takes a littlebit of a different approach
using kind of a pilot programthat could be put in place.
(05:07):
And so uh, you know, the Housebill hasn't been marked up yet,
but we'll kind of see in thislast week in session how that
goes.
It's expected to receive broadbipartisan support since it has
buy-in from both Chairman Hilland ranking member Waters.
And so heading into the newyear, the package could be
(05:30):
considered on the floor if itmakes it out of the committee.
And ultimately, um for somethingto get signed into law, there's
gonna be one.
There needs to be bipartisan orsorry, bicameral coordination
between the House and Senate ona lot of these housing pieces,
as well as a vehicle for it toride on.
(05:50):
There's a chance that it couldgo standalone, but things ride
typically a lot easier if if youknow it's attached to a spending
bill or something like thedefense bill.
SPEAKER_02 (06:03):
All right.
So, you know, question.
So you obviously have the thehouse bill, which is dropped on
Thursday, you know, Hill andWaters are behind it.
Um now, do you see at any pointin time that when you have these
two, these two bills, you know,road and I think you said um
(06:24):
housing in the 21st century, um,do you just see like the end
product just being married up,you know, the two kind of being
combined when it's all said anddone, and that's what ends up
going through?
Or are they gonna be twoindependent bills that kind of
have to fight it out for who forsupremacy?
SPEAKER_03 (06:44):
Yeah, so I think it's really gonna be a mix of
the two.
You know, the the House rejectedthe Senate's bill, the Senate
isn't gonna take the House'sbill.
I mean, it's it's a very goodsign to see that there are some
provisions that overlap betweenthe two.
You would think that those wouldhave a good chance of getting
through, um, some of which are aprovision to kind of alter the
(07:09):
permitting process for smallhousing projects, increasing FHA
loan limits, and making somechanges to the definitions of um
manufactured housing to includemodular and prefab.
So those pieces and some more,like that's a great starting
point for you know a kind ofcompromise package that'll need
(07:32):
to be hashed out.
Um, but yeah, there are somepieces like HUD's home program.
Both bills take kind of aseparate approach, which will
need to be reconciled.
And there are some provisionsthat um will definitely need to
be to be hashed out before youknow something is agreed upon in
(07:53):
in both chambers.
SPEAKER_02 (07:55):
Now, do you like using your crystal ball?
I mean, obviously, it we youknow, here we are.
I mean, you know, this is youknow, the the house bill at this
point in time is, you know, bythe time we get to it, you know,
by the time this podcast isreleased, it's only gonna be
about two weeks old.
Um but did the the house billinclude, and keep in mind, I
(08:17):
haven't looked at it yet, buthas it included you know the
small dollar amount lending andkind of clarifications around
that?
You know, because you know thatwas one thing that I was
particularly watching becausewas the small dollar amount was
being established at what200,000?
You know, and and the reason whyI was look really looking at
that is because I think youcredit unions can really fill
(08:42):
that void in that small dollaramount lending, whereas others
might be hesitant to do it.
Like, you know, oftentimes whenyou have when you pay you know a
loan officer based off of theircommissions based off a dollar
amount, you know, that$200,000loan is really just going to get
ignored, right?
They're they're they're gonna goout for that$500,000,$600,000
(09:05):
and kind of just push that$200,000 loan amount off to the
side.
And so, you know, gettinggetting that portion of road
through, and even if it's partof you know the housing in the
21st century, you know, thatright there is a niche that I I
personally see credit unionsreally mastering and capturing
(09:30):
and people coming to creditunions more than the any other
lender.
So just I I know I kind of justrambled a bit, so I apologize,
but was that that small dollaramount loan or limit included in
that that house bill?
SPEAKER_03 (09:47):
Yeah, so unfortunately it was not
included.
Um there was an additional smalldollar mortgage provision that
would have that would establishlike a pilot program on ways
that um you know there could bedirect loans to borrowers for
(10:08):
FHA loans, as well as somesupport for closing costs, which
is title insurance.
Um and just thinking that likeboth the House bill and the
Senate bill have that bipartisanbuy and that bipartisan support,
I wouldn't think that any billor any provision that's not
included in one couldn'teventually end up in the final
(10:32):
package.
Um this will really need to behashed out between the
leadership in both the SenateBanking Committee and House
Financial Services Committees.
And you know, I I don't thinkanything's really off the table,
even if one provision wasn'tincluded in the other bill.
SPEAKER_02 (10:51):
Yeah, it's good to know.
I mean, because I mean if you'regonna talk, you know, this is
just me, me talking, but it youknow, if if you know lawmakers,
policymakers, if if they'regoing to truly talk about you
know redefining you knowmanufactured housing to include
modular and what it actuallymeans to originate those types
(11:15):
of loans, and if that's part ofthe focus, you you really have
to include that small dollaramount provision in there as
well, because they really go,they're one, I they're almost
one and the same, in my opinion.
Now, you know, you you couldargue on the opposite side that
they're totally different, butyou know, if we really are going
to solve the affordabilitycrisis in this country, giving
(11:39):
lenders, not just credit unions,but lenders in general the
ability to originate a loan at200,000 and not have to have so
much concern or about highcosts.
I mean, that that's extremelyimportant, right?
For us to kind of move thisneedle forward on expanding
homeownership.
Anyways, uh, I'll come off mysoapbox.
(12:00):
Let's kind of move on to anotherone of my favorite topics.
I'm so happy you proposed this.
SPEAKER_03 (12:07):
You know, what's going on with the CPB?
Yeah, it is a it's a very commonquestion these days.
There has been so many differenttwists and turns throughout this
year.
And so just most recently, onething that we're watching just
kind of on the leadership sideof things, the administration
(12:32):
nominated a uh senior OMBofficial who has a background in
natural resources and energypolicy, named Stuart Levenbach,
to serve as the CFPB director inaround mid-November, which
caught kind of everyone bysurprise.
Um, and you know, this thishappened as the acting CFPB
(12:57):
director Russ Vaught.
His term is set to expire.
Like he wouldn't be able toserve unless someone else was
nominated.
It's part of uh the FederalVacancies Reform Act.
And so the CFEB pretty muchconfirmed that this nomination
was just put in place to ensurethat acting director vote can
(13:20):
continue to stay on.
And I believe that's until aboutMay or June of 2026 that this
kind of procedural move willallow him to continue on.
And so, you know, now that thatkind of leadership question is
addressed, there is still thevery big question over the
(13:42):
CFPV's funding.
Of course, um the agency iscontinuing to rely on a DOJA
legal opinion that argues thatany funds it receives outside of
Federal Reserve profits orcombined earnings uh are just
generally unlawful.
And so the in a recent CFUBcourt filing, they said that
(14:04):
they expect to remain inoperation through the new year.
But just over the last couple ofweeks, the Federal Reserve has
recently returned toprofitability, which uh could
sort of complicate or maybeundermine some of the Bureau's
um arguments that it won't beable to operate, um, that they
(14:26):
will have to kind of take someof these funds.
And so, I mean, the courts rightnow are really the place to
watch uh to kind of learn whatwhat the future of the Bureau is
gonna end up being.
Um there really haven't been toomany developments in the last
couple of weeks, but um, ofcourse, the CFPV has a pretty
(14:47):
pretty big agenda um that wasreleased just a few a few months
ago.
And so um, you know, this kindof legal question overhang is
really kind of at the heart ofwhat's going on, and and really,
yeah, looking at the courtdockets, seeing what seeing what
happens is really kind of thethe key right now.
SPEAKER_02 (15:10):
You know, this one's interesting because it it's out
of you know all the topics we wecommonly talk about, right?
This one, I don't want to say itreads like a soap opera, but it
it has that much drama behindit, right?
And it's so far reaching thatyou almost have to kind of take
(15:34):
a step back and and and questionin not so much in a bad way, but
you have to question, okay,well, what's really gonna happen
next?
Because you know, we've talkedabout in the past with you know
with with you in conversation,but and you know, not so much on
this recording, but you inconversation.
We've talked about it with AM,we talked about with Zach, we
talked about with Leah.
(15:55):
You know, you can strip down theCPB all you want, right?
And you can get to a point whereyou have a director over uh a
two-person, you know, bureau,but at any point in time,
especially under a newadministration, this thing, this
(16:17):
this animal could come back youknow tenfold and really uh
change things up you know in adifferent way.
So it's really just fascinatingto watch how they're they're
almost uh stripping those theCPB down to really represent
(16:39):
almost nothing, but it's stilllike the you know, the two
hundred, you know, the the 2,000pound gorilla that you're just
trying to cage.
That's all you're trying to do,right?
I think that's probably the bestanalogy.
Um, you can cage it, buteventually, you know, it's gonna
get loose, I guess.
I don't know.
So very fascinating on CPB.
(17:01):
Just really just fascinating.
Um and I like how they it's sojust a question on on the the
person who they have nominatedfor director of the CPB, this
person from uh OMB.
Is this just another one ofthose ploys to kind of keep VOT
in control?
(17:21):
And eventually this person'sgonna withdraw and you're gonna
go we're gonna go through thisprocess again, and just we're
almost like kicking the VOT candown the road, just keeping him
in control.
SPEAKER_03 (17:33):
Yeah, so I believe under the Federal Vacancy Reform
Act, not 100% certain on this,but I think there can only be
two nominee withdrawals to keepin an acting.
Interesting.
Yeah, so the first one, ofcourse, was Jonathan McKernan,
who was nominated back in May2025, and then now the second
(17:57):
one is is Levinbach.
Um, of course, the the Senatebanking has no intentions of
holding a nomination hearing forthat nomination.
And so I think it if if theBureau is still funded and and
has stuff going on in kind oflate spring 2026, early summer,
(18:20):
they could there could be apotential new uh new nominee,
but um that's that is that isvery far in the future for Edna.
Very far.
Very far.
SPEAKER_02 (18:29):
All right.
I almost feel silly asking aboutthis one because I feel like we
just went through this processof talking about it a lot, but
here we are, January 30th isright around the corner.
You know, what is going on witha potential government shutdown,
(18:51):
the likelihood, et cetera, etcetera, et cetera.
I mean, what's what's well givegive us an update on any
possible shutdown that couldhappen in January?
SPEAKER_03 (19:02):
Yeah, so since the continuing resolution that ended
the longest shutdown in in UShistory, which took place in uh
November, there really has notbeen much of or any progress on
fiscal year 26 appropriations inCongress.
(19:23):
There have been kind of talks inthe Senate of getting kind of a
package of five of the 12required appropriations bills to
get through.
As of now, it's really been alltalk.
Nothing has really happened.
This the House and Senate alsoremain very far apart on their
(19:44):
kind of top line spendingnumbers.
And so just looking at thecalendar, we're pretty much done
with 2025.
In January, the House and Senatewill only both be in session
when they're Both chambers arethere for two weeks, and then
(20:04):
the House will be in, and thenthe Senate will just be in.
And so there's there are veryfew kind of legislative days
ahead before this January 30thdeadline.
And so we we're probably lookingat another continuing
resolution.
And honestly, probably a lot ofthe same sort of dynamics will
(20:25):
be at play um between potentialshutdown coming up and also the
one that happened from September30th all the way to
mid-November.
And just one caveat that's alittle bit different that might
be a little bit different thistime.
Along with the continuingresolution that passed in
(20:45):
November, three of the 12 fiscalyear 26 appropriations bills
also were signed into law.
And so those cover like theagricultural, agriculture
department, veterans affairs,um, and a few others.
And so that accounts for roughly10 to 11 percent of federal
(21:07):
funding.
And so that will that wouldremain in place if if there is a
shutdown, as well as SNAP wouldbe fully funded.
So, you know, that was a bigissue in during the shutdown uh
in in October, November, thatthat would be off the table um
if if there were to be ashutdown in in February.
SPEAKER_02 (21:28):
Interesting.
All right, so I think that doesbring up a good you know
transition to uh you know thefinal topic, you know, in
addition to potential, you know,early 2026 shutdown.
Again, I I stress the wordpotential.
What else kind of can you hintat uh when when we look at the
year ahead for 2026?
(21:51):
Um give us some insight as towhat we can expect.
SPEAKER_03 (21:55):
Yeah, so things will look a little bit different
there.
Of course, the midterms arecoming up in November 2026,
primaries are gonna start tobegin in uh winter and and
spring.
So kind of political partisandynamics might change a little
(22:16):
bit as you know, just governingwill get tougher with the
election coming up.
And just also on the calendarfor all of October, there's not
gonna be half-sort for Senate insession.
Um, and so it just makes thingsa little bit tougher.
And so just looking through thatcontext, some things we're we're
(22:37):
watching, you know, GSC reform,GSC privatization is of course a
really, really big topic.
Um the administration was kindof weighing an IPO, Fanny and
Freddie, uh, of some smallportion of their stock, which
didn't happen in 2025, but thatis something that could, you
(23:01):
know, certainly could happennext year.
And also the the House FinancialServices Committee is expected
to you know begin effortslooking at GSE reform um in the
first quarter of this year.
So that's certainly something tokeep an eye on.
And one other thing I thoughtI'd mention is um AI.
(23:24):
Of course, everyone is talkingabout artificial intelligence
right now.
Uh President Trump in earlyDecember released an executive
order seeking to limit stateregulation of AI, arguing that
we need a single framework.
We can't deal with 50 differentstates regulating AI.
(23:45):
And so it'll be interesting tosee, you know, if it withstands
potential legal challenges, ifCongress will seek to legislate
on this issue to make kind ofthe executive order permanent.
And uh just conversation aboutAI in general is really likely
to heat up.
It's become it was a topic inthe 2025 off-year elections on
(24:10):
data centers, energy policy,potential restrictions on AI.
And I think that's just going tocontinue to become more and more
of an issue as we as we goforward.
SPEAKER_02 (24:21):
Yeah, I'm I'm glad you mentioned that.
It's because you know, it's mostcertainly on the minds of a lot
of our members, you know, thedirection of AI, you know,
another fascinating topic.
You know, AI really evolvesfaster than you know the
politicians can sit down towrite the opening paragraph to
(24:41):
any potential bill.
And you know, it would be goodto get some direction, you know,
especially from a lendingstandpoint, as to you know, how
we can approach this.
But but also, I mean, we we Ithink for the sake of our
members, you know, we wecontinue to suggest that they
adopt AI um as a way to makethings more efficient, not
(25:01):
replace but improve efficiency.
Um and so this is a good exampleof something that is as far
reaching, impacts a lot ofdifferent industries um that you
know a lot of our our membersare really keeping, I don't want
to say close eye, but they'redefinitely paying attention to.
(25:22):
Now, you know, as we also, youknow, you mentioned you know in
2026 midterm elections.
I mean, at that point in time,do you feel like we get a good
sense of uh the new direction ofthe of the House and Senate?
Um, yeah, obviously midterm, andobviously we'll we'll have you
know the towards the end of theyear elections, but do you have
(25:46):
at that point in time, do yousee any type of change?
But also, I guess the secondpart of that is you know, by the
midterms, we we should get agood sense of who the Democratic
nominee is for the nextpresidential election, right?
Or who might be considered inthe running, right?
SPEAKER_03 (26:05):
Yeah, yeah, I think directly kind of after the
midterms, it'll the 2028election will pretty much begin
in earnest, regardless of ofwhat happens in the midterms.
Um there's also that kind oflame duck window when the 119th
Congress will be turning intothe 120th Congress, where there
(26:30):
can be some bipartisan dealmaking and and you know the
opportunity for things to to gothrough.
But um, yeah, I think prettymuch directly directly after the
midterms, we will we will enterthe 2028 race, which will be uh
quite a time.
SPEAKER_02 (26:49):
Yeah, that that that one's gonna be very interesting.
Uh I will say that.
Um but anyways, Joel, thank youvery much for your time today.
Truly do appreciate it.
Enjoyed the conversation.
Um as always appreciateeverything that you and the rest
of the Brownstein team does forAcima and our members.
So again, thank you very much.
Thanks so much, Peter.
(27:11):
Of course.
And to close out, thank youagain to Lone Vision for
sponsoring today's episode.
And to all of you, we know yourtime is valuable.
Thank you for tuning in to thelatest episode of Acuma's On
Point Podcast.
We hope you enjoyed it.
Until next time, be well, myfriends.
SPEAKER_01 (27:25):
Thanks for listening.
We'll see you next time at theAcuma on Point Podcast.
If not already, be sure tosubscribe and give us a five
star rating.
For more great episodes andinformation, be sure to visit us
online at Acuma.org.
And to get the latest updates,head over to our LinkedIn page.
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