Masculinity and Intimacy with Mikaal Bates

Mikaal Bates and I discuss men's work, intimacy, rites of passage, masculinity, initiation, brotherhood, sacred theater, acting, self-discovery, community, purpose, combat sports, nudism, political landscape, and tribal societies.Adam 0:02

I'm here with Michael Bates. He is a men's coach and a coach of of intimacy between men and women. I met him in New York right before the pandemic, literally two weeks before the the first news of it, and I had attended a men's circle he held in Brooklyn, and then it was only years later, three years later, that I did my own initiation into men's work. And now I've been paying a lot more attention to what he's been doing, and he's doing some really interesting things. So thank you for being here, Michael,

Mikaal 0:38

it's a pleasure to be here. Adam, thank you for having me. It's good to see you again.

Adam 0:43

Yeah, you too. So, like many of us, myself, I moved to New York coming from a jazz performance area. And you, I understand, are coming from an acting background. I'm I'm curious, like, what was your journey to come to New York and in general, how did your acting inform the work that you're doing?

Mikaal 1:05

Now, it's a great question. I was actually a jazz saxophone player in college, but, uh Oh, wow.

Adam 1:11

Which, which sacks, etc. Nice. I played Alto and Perry Right on man, B

Mikaal 1:18

flat to B flat. You know? It's a nice the nice, big gap, yeah, yeah. Man acting, I mean the arts in general, I would say that you know, so much of the work that I do, especially in the in the rites of passage and initiation space, there is a component of sacred theater to it. There's a component of enacting these rituals, the ritual of masculinity, the ritual of manhood, the transformation of going from one state to another and studying acting in New York at the the Esper studio, which is Meisner technique, was a revelation. It's a spiritual, deep spiritual practice to live or do truthfully under imaginary circumstances. And so it was a huge time for me of self self discovery and learning to use my entire body as an instrument. I had been, as I mentioned, a musician, and I've been an athlete, but there was something about getting to know myself and the instrument of the body so deeply that I could be open to any experience and to take on any experience or role, any any of the vast potentiality of what it means to be human and to be a conduit of that. I honestly don't think there's anything I recommend people do more than go to acting school. It's just such an incredible skill and just an incredible way of getting to know yourself. And so I would say, I use, I use skills that I learned in acting school every day, and the work that I do, literally in the one on one coaching work, and also in the the group, the groups as well. Yeah,

Adam 2:58

the being open to any experience really stood out at me, because in my own experience of men's work, I realized how much, how kind of myopic my my life was, just I'm only operating from my own perspective. So being in, and I imagine this would be group therapy in general, but being in experiences where I'm I'm seeing, in this case, men coming from all walks of life, experiencing all kinds of different issues, and in a way, holding space for that, being a vessel for that, it makes me less judgmental and less reactive to other people's experiences in general.

Mikaal 3:37

Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. I mean, once you once you meet the entire retinue of human potential, and I think New York is so great for that, you know, just go and go on the subway in New York and just sit and watch. And the whole human spectrum is just there, just laid out in, in, in every single individual and the uniqueness of the individuals there. So it's a beautiful thing. And one of my favorite things about New York to say the least,

Adam 4:04

yeah