November 21, 2024 • 34 mins
Do you, as an educator or parent, wish there was a guidebook for combatting antisemitism? Look no further than Lynne Azarchi and Harlene Lichter Galen’s new curriculum: Countering Anti-Semitism and Hate: A How-to Guide for Youth, Family, and Educators.
In a conversation with David Bryfman, the authors share insights from three years of research and emphasize the importance of transforming bystanders into upstanders by instilling pride in Jewish identity.
Together, they explore how stereotypes and tropes have caused generations of harm and why fostering strong Jewish identity is essential for equipping youth to stand up against bias. This guidebook is a resource for parents, educators, and anyone looking to empower the next generation to face hate with knowledge, strength, and dignity.
Purchase the guide here.
Learn more at jewishupstanders.org
This episode was produced by Dina Nusnbaum and Miranda Lapides. The show’s executive producers are David Bryfman, Karen Cummins, and Nessa Liben.
This episode was engineered and edited by Nathan J. Vaughan of NJV Media.
If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a 5-star rating and review, or even better, share it with a friend. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and be the first to know when new episodes are released. To learn more about The Jewish Education Project visit jewishedproject.org where you can find links to our Jewish Educator Portal and learn more about our mission, history, and staff. We are a proud partner of UJA-Federation of New York.
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David Bryfman (00:00):
The shine a light on anti semitism. Civic Courage
Award is now open fornominations. This is your
opportunity to recognize someonewho is actively combating the
rising tide of anti semitism.
This prestigious awardcelebrates individuals across
eight categories, includingstudents and educators, offering
a $2,000 prize and nationalrecognition. If you have someone
to nominate, visit shine thelight on.com forward slash
(00:22):
awards to nominate someone whoseactivism spreads light by
November 25 This is adapting thefuture of Jewish education a
podcast from the Jewisheducation project where we
explore the big questions,challenges and successes that
define Jewish education. I'mDavid Bryant.
(00:49):
Hi everybody, and thank you forjoining us on today's episode of
adapting the future of Jewisheducation. Now today's episode
might seem a bit different toyou as listeners, but I promise
that by the end of the episode,you'll see exactly why we've
decided to cover this importanttopic today. So I'm not normally
one to endorse books, but Iwelcome anybody sending me books
on topics related to Judaism andJewish education to read. I'm
(01:11):
also not necessarily a fan oflesson plans, per se. And here's
the reason, sometimes I thinkthat if you give a teacher a
lesson plan, that you've doneall of the work for them. And
some of the best experiencesthat I've had as an educator are
when you actually have to go andlearn about something to create
your own lesson plan. So givingsomeone a DIY lesson plan hasn't
(01:33):
always been part of my DNA. Thatbeing said, I came across a book
which sort of did exactly justthat, and I felt it important
enough to bring that to you,because I think it raised a
whole lot of extra conversationswith all of us, and I'm
delighted to have with us ontoday's podcast, Lynn azaki, who
is the former director of kidsbridge Youth Center in New
Jersey, and Helene LichterGalen, who is the chairperson of
(01:56):
kids bridge Youth Center. Andtogether, they have co authored
a book countering anti semitismand hate, a how to guide for
youth, family and educators,which we will link to in the
show notes of today's podcast.
Now, one more thing that I don'tlike doing before we actually
get into the conversation. Idon't like having conversations
about Jewish identity that baseJewish identity in the negative
forces, or the external forces,or what somebody else tells us
(02:20):
that we should be or should bedoing. So here you have it, I
don't endorse books. I'm not afan of lesson plans, and I don't
like anti semitism. And herewe're going to have today a
conversation about a book withlesson plans, exactly about
countering anti semitism, andwith that as probably the worst
introduction you can give to twoguests, possibly, I want to
welcome both Lynn and Harleenfor joining us on today's
(02:42):
episode. That's
Unknown (02:44):
a wonderful introduction, unique.
So let's start
David Bryfman (02:47):
off Lynn by answering the first question,
which I think is central, whatmotivated you both to write a
curriculum about fighting antisemitism today?
Unknown (02:55):
Well, David, you're a pleasure and a joy. Thanks for
inviting us today. It's reallyimportant. We all know Jewish
children are suffering, and sowe talk about adults, but
Harlene and I have been 21years. I mean, we have extensive
resumes, but together at kidsbridge, 21 years in anti bias
youth education, listening to35,000 kids, students, teachers
(03:20):
and parents. And how did thisall begin? So of course, we're
both Jewish. I was invited byour local Federation, our
Princeton Mercer bucksFederation, right before COVID,
to conduct a listening sessionfor parents. I listened, and we
all listened, and what we foundout was, four years ago, anti
(03:41):
semitism is really bad, and so Iwent to Harlene, working
together with kids bridge, and Isaid, you know, we're both
Jewish, our kids are suffering,and we both have a history of
understanding anti semitism formillennia, but today, our kids
are suffering. Let's write aguide book to help Jewish
parents, Jewish educators andJewish kids to better prepare
(04:03):
for anti semitism and all bias.
And so it took us three years,and now we have a guidebook.
David Bryfman (04:09):
Can I ask you to expand on the word suffering? It
seems in some ways, might likeit might be a bit of a
hyperbolic word, and in someways it might be a really real
word as well. So talk to me abit about why you use the word
suffering when you're talkingabout what our young people are
facing.
Unknown (04:23):
So I feel I was the kind of kid that wouldn't talk
to my parents. We have a lot ofkids like that today, starting
in elementary school, our kidsare hearing stereotypes, tropes,
bias against Jews, and we talkabout adults and helping adults,
and we're here today with you totalk about our kids are
(04:46):
suffering silently from mylistening session. Parents don't
know what to do. They don't knowhow to coach their kids, and our
kids are walking away, which is,if we can say identity and
pride, it's hurting theiridentity and pride. So. We're
here to tell you there arestatistics from ADL, but from us
listening we know around thecountry in this current
(05:09):
political climate, stereotypes,biases, tropes are in style, and
our kids are suffering and and Iknow this from listening to kids
in our area. So
David Bryfman (05:19):
who's the intended audience for for this
curriculum, for this book,
Unknown (05:22):
well, we would like to reach grandparents, parents and
youth and the childrenthemselves. You know, people
think that you have to have acurriculum. You do not. You can
begin with everyday occurrencesas young as with three year
olds, and it's not that hard todo so in this book, and it's a
(05:45):
short book, it's only a littleover 100 pages, we give you step
by step of how to do it. And Iwant to really say this word
loudly, safely, so that's ouraudience.
David Bryfman (06:02):
What does safely mean for you? I raise this
because we've had a conversationrecently where someone tried to
define the difference between asafe environment or a safe
learning space and a bravelearning space as well. But I'm
interested to hear from youspecifically, when you say a
safety environment, what do youmean by that? Harleen,
Unknown (06:16):
well, I mean that it's a situation where the hurt does
not become intensified. Itdoesn't mean the hurt goes away,
but you can handle the hurt andyou don't make it worse.
David Bryfman (06:29):
Interesting. I want to pick up on something
that you've said here related tois this a book about anti
semitism education or anti biaseducation? What are the
similarities and what are thedifferences? And I asked this in
the context of I have a badsuspicion that if you did a
listening tour of all types ofkids in America today, many of
(06:51):
them would describe some sort ofbias or discrimination of or
unsafe feeling that they'rehaving. And I'm not dismissing
any of that as being good atall, although some people might
claim it's a natural part ofjust growing up in a diverse
environment, I think it's apretty obscene thing to actually
admit. But is there somethingparticular about anti semitism,
or is it in the bucket ofgeneral biases that all people
(07:13):
are feeling? And you just wantedto raise the particularness of
anti semitism as it pertains toJewish students as well. So
Unknown (07:20):
anti bias is for our kids. It's a broken system, and
you're right for Muslim kids,for Asian kids, for any kids
that are not in the majority,they are suffering similarly
from different stereotypes andtropes. So our book, because
Harleen and I at a certain age,we became the other, you know,
(07:41):
being ashamed for our Jewishpride and identity. We don't
want kids to feel this way, butyou're on the pulse of what's
going on today. Yes, everyone'skids are suffering, and Harleen
and I are thinking about maybe aseries of books for Asians, for
LGBT, for Muslims, maybe onebroad umbrella of anti bias. But
yes, all of our kids aresuffering, and that concerns us
(08:02):
as well. But as Jews, we wrotethis book for Jewish parents,
educators, grandparents, we wantto start there, because that's
who we are. And we want toattend to the kids who don't
know what to do and theirparents who don't know what to
do. Yeah,
David Bryfman (08:15):
and that really comes through during the
curriculum. I want to ask acouple of specific questions,
what do you think is the mostcommonly used or abused trope,
anti semitic trope that ouryoung people are encountering
today. There's
Unknown (08:27):
a lot of Hail Hitler still going on. One of the ones
that really got to me waslooking at Jews as a pizza and
putting them in the oven.
They've gone that far to takethe well known trope of burning
up in the ovens in our pasthistory and made it modern by
changing it into a pizza. Butthe hurt is still there.
(08:54):
Some other tropes David are Jewsare cheap. Jews control the
media. Jews control Hollywood.
And new ones, I think, are beingcreated today. So this is,
again, what our kids arehearing, and they may not share
it with anybody. Okay.
David Bryfman (09:09):
This is really, really important. Do you think
when our young people hear someof those tropes about money,
cheap, controlling the mediathat they get or understand how
negative they are, or what thehistory behind those tropes are.
And I ask this because if you'rebeing picked on because of your
race or this color of your skinor your external sexual
(09:33):
orientation as you express it toother people, then it's pretty
obvious as to what you're beingpicked on. Right for young Jews,
if they hear things like moneylending as something which is
now being held against them, Ifeel like they might not even
have the origin story of whythat's actually a negative slide
against Jews. Other than that akid wants to cause me harm, both
from the person perpetratingthat vindictiveness and for the
(09:54):
Jewish kid receiving it. So Ithink the trope piece here is a
really important part of thecurriculum, and some of what you
really pay attention. Into isuncovering that particular
history. So how important was itfor you to uncover the
historical background for someof these, some of these used
tropes, it
Unknown (10:08):
was very important because you hit the nail on the
head. Half of what's beingspoken negatively to these kids
is not in their realm ofunderstanding at all. And so
within the book, we try to pickout the ones that are used most
often against them, and give abrief, and I say, brief history
(10:31):
of how it evolved, so thatperhaps they can begin to
understand that this has gone onfor centuries. It's not just
happening todayand David, if I could just
intersect. So I'm on the boardof my local JCC, and we have 300
kids in New Jersey going tocamp, learning pride and
identity, learning about Israeland to kind of lump, giving back
(10:54):
in community service. Half ofthose kids and this, I think, is
across the country, do notbelong to a synagogue. So if our
Jewish kids are only learningreally great two months of
Jewish pride and identity, theyare not really able to respond
to stereotypes and tropes. Solet me tell you, from the
research, the kids that do bestresponding to these tropes and
(11:17):
stereotypes and hate and insultsare the ones who have a strong
ethnic and religious identityupon that foundation of pride
and identity. It helps them withthe bias and the stereotypes of
the tropes they are hearing. I'mreally
David Bryfman (11:36):
interested in this term countering or
encountering the anti semitism.
No disrespect to any of us, noneof us are going to eradicate the
world of anti semitism, at leastnot through this 100 page
curriculum. So what's thepurpose? Like? What's the best
case scenario? A teacher teachestheir students this curriculum,
the kids know more stuff aboutthe origins and history of anti
semitism. Are able to identifythat the trope being thrown
(11:58):
against them is against theirreligious or their ethnic
background, and the kid doeswhat? As a result of that extra
knowledge that they have gained,they
Unknown (12:08):
may do nothing. You're right. They may do something.
Our hope is that not only willpeople who read this introduce
the strategies to their youth,but enable the youth to practice
them. You're right. They have topractice, practice, practice it
in a non threatening situation,so that when the threatening
(12:30):
situation occurs they can act.
And are we going to get 100%we'll be lucky if we get one or
2% of the kids that are exposedto use it, but you have to begin
somewhere. You can't just brushit under the carpet. We are a
nation, and I'm going to letLynn go into this a little bit
more. We are a nation ofbystanders. What is happening
(12:51):
within the Jewish community fitsin with the general population.
And I'll let Lynn brieflyexplain what she and I
understand bystanders in today'sculture. To be
David Bryfman (13:06):
Linda, please explain the bystander upstander
concept, but also some of theother strategies that you want
to deploy to our to our youngpeople as well through this book
and the curriculum.
Unknown (13:15):
So we'll get to upstanders in a minute. So
Harleen is right, and this isfrom the research. We are a
nation of bystanders, and Jewishare a nation of bystanders that
were embarrassed. We slink away.
You know, when I was teased orbullied, I would keep it in
myself. I just wouldn't tell myparents. Here's our vision. If
anti semitism is a system formillennia, and we know we're
5700 years old, it's a systemthat needs to be broken. Our
(13:39):
hope is if we can coach andencourage parents, grandparents
and kids to respond in adifferent way, maybe in 10 or 15
years, our broken system, theanti semitism, is reduced
because finally, we havedeveloped a cohort of kids who
are willing to stand up andspeak out. It's kind of quiet
(14:01):
out there. There's a lot.
There's a new thing forming. Ithink you brought this up, Jew
hatred. Just call it what it is,Jew hatred, instead of anti
semitism. So it's our vision.
Let's start now. Why do we waittill our kids are on college
campuses? David, they don't knowwhat to do. They're not
prepared. They're not practice.
Can we please as a peoplethrough synagogues, through the
(14:25):
coaching harlena And I have andwe're zooming and we're I just
came back from Miami, I was atthe JCC. Can we teach parents,
grandparents and kids themselvesto practice so that in 10 or 15
years there is less antisemitism, and we as a people,
are not slinking away. We'reproud to be Jews. We walk away
proud. That is our hope, andthat is our vision of writing
(14:48):
this guidebook.
David Bryfman (14:49):
Okay, let me just be really specific for a second.
I don't mean to be pedanticabout this. I'm a tween. I'm in
the playground. A kid throws apenny at me and says, Jew. Jump.
Which was something that Ilearned from some kids that I
spoke to as if to throw themoney at the Jewish kid who was
going to pick up the penny, theJewish kid could walk away and
do nothing. You're suggestingthat's what's been happening for
(15:10):
millennia, or at least ingrainedin today's society, as a result
of going through this particulartype of training or this
experience, rather than walkingaway from that particularly
intimidating scenario, afronting, embarrassing scenario
where one could be ashamed, onecould be despondent, one could
just say, laugh it off, apotential different strategy is
(15:33):
walking
Unknown (15:33):
away can still be done, but it's the way in which we
Jews walk away. Do we walk awayassertively, or do we walk away
as being punished with our headsdown? It's the small things,
because if you walk away inspite of what's been said, with
(15:54):
your back straight, an unhurriedstride, a look on your face that
is not one of doubt or one ofembarrassment, you have made a
statement that does not comeacross if you run away or if you
go away in another fashion. Soit's the little things that
(16:18):
change, but they're observed byothers. And the reason that we
emphasize practice is none ofthis is natural. It has to be
practiced.
So let me interject, David, toanswer your question, the penny
is thrown at the kid. We havefrom research, studied and used
at kids bridge. A variety ofstrategies that work. There's
(16:41):
not one strategy here. We givethe child options. So in
addition to the assertive pose,this child can tell a teacher
that child, you can go home andtell your parents at night that
child can get two or threefriends to go up to that person
the next day and say, That'sinsulting. That's not nice. You
(17:01):
have to stop that. So there areso many options that the child
is overwhelmed and may befrozen, but there are strategies
to do right then, and there arestrategies to do a little bit
after, and there are strategiesto do in a week. Why do we have
to figure out itinstantaneously? Because we
freeze. So for that option, thebook goes through different
(17:21):
strategies to build on whatHarleen said, practice those
strategies. It's coming. Youknow, the penny being thrown,
and Jews control this, orwhatever. You know, tropes
people have. Why weren't youprepared? Because nobody talked
to you about it.
David Bryfman (17:35):
I noticed you didn't give the option of go
Biff the kid in the nose, David.
Unknown (17:40):
That's not what we do.
So when a kid punches in thenose, he goes to the principal
with the other kid, and that'snot a good resolution. It's a
that is a short term strategy,what Harleen and I have created
a long term strategy forsuccess. And here's the other
very important point, this kidis broken. Maybe hearing from
the home this is like a personthat bullies, that wants
(18:02):
attention. If it is notresolved, this kid's going to go
to another kid. So if helpingDavid is not enough, we have to
help all the kids. I want to
David Bryfman (18:14):
mention something that come back to something
you've mentioned before, andthat is the Holocaust. You
referenced it before in terms ofone of the one of the images and
one of the tropes that peopleare spreading and hearing a lot
about today, the rise of NeoNazism or the fascism or
Holocaust rhetoric is definitelyprevalent today. But this book
is not about Holocausteducation, and there is an
interesting discussion going onin broader society about
(18:36):
Holocaust education. Should itor shouldn't be mandatory? What
are the lessons that we canlearn from the Holocaust. When
we say, never again, what do wemean by never again? I think all
of our listeners are relativelyfamiliar with the general
discourse, but I'm wondering foryou, why was it important to
include the Holocaust as anexplicit subject matter of
material in your discussionabout contemporary antiSemitism?
Unknown (18:59):
Because what is out there is lopsided. Our children
are adults by and large, andyou're going to find exceptions.
Only have one side of theseesaw. That's all they see.
They see the absolute horriblekilling of other human beings.
(19:20):
They see the Jews being led ascattle into these supposed
shower stalls where they aremurdered, burned alive. In some
instances, they don't see theother side. They don't see the
resistance are getting anunclear picture, and they the
(19:40):
total picture should beavailable to them,
If I could add to that. David, Iwent to Sunday school, religious
school my whole life. Got batmitzvahed, loved it, and what I
learned most were the horrifyingpictures of bodies in trenches
and bulldozers. I don't recall.
I. Until lately for this book,learning about the partisans,
(20:01):
30,000 partisans in Europefighting back resistance, living
in the woods, so brave. 30% ofthose fighters were women. Why
wasn't I taught that so that wecan teach the kids some new
things that relate to Jewishpride and identity, and what is
(20:22):
that, resistance and resilience?
30,000 partisans pushed back,lived in the woods and wrote
stories later, we need to sharethese stories of courage,
resistance and resilience. Weare been around, pushed around
for a long time, 5000 years. Weneed to be proud, and this
(20:44):
relates to Jewish pride andidentity, and this relates to
the Holocaust. Arlene, yeah,I would like to add that if you
talk of courage and bravery, ouryouth today will talk about the
IDF, the Israeli Defense Force,but what they have to see is
that there were brave Jews andcourageous Jews throughout our
history. Highlighting that isjust as important as knowing
(21:09):
about the evil chapters of theHolocaust. So
David Bryfman (21:16):
here I want to make an important distinction
for our listeners that thisdiscussion is not about
Holocaust education, per se. Ifone was to have a curriculum
about the Holocaust, it wouldnot just include stories about
partisans and resistancefighters, and by the way, my
late grandfather was a partisan,so I relate very well to the
story that you're describing.
But here you're suggesting thata largely untold or often
suppressed story of theHolocaust, when it comes to
(21:39):
educating our youth, is aboutthose people that stood up
against fascism, against theNazis, that were referred to in
some languages, upstanders. AndI think in some in some
curriculum, we talk about boththe Jewish upstanders and
resistance fighters and also therighteous Gentiles who stood up
against the Nazi forces as well.
And we're taking this particularpart of the Holocaust narrative
(22:00):
and elevating it in thisparticular concept, because you
largely believe that the conceptof standing up and being an
upstander is one of thestrongest antidotes that we
have, and if that's probably thestrongest theme throughout your
curriculum. So talk to us a bitabout this concept of what it
means to be an upstander intoday's world.
Unknown (22:18):
Yeah. So you may not know, and the people listening
may not know that I was readingthe age of genocide by Samantha
Power, and the book's very thickthe United States, turning us
back to genocides around theworld. So I'm reading bystander
by stander, and then suddenlyit's like a angelic moment. I
read the word up stander. Sowe've been using that word for
(22:40):
20 years. A person who stands upand speaks out and so merging
from positive things that we cando, upstanders can break the
model, break the system. Inother words, if you have 100
kids or 100 adults in a room,the majority of the people in
(23:00):
the room are bystanders. Theminority are the people who harm
her bully. But I ask you, David,who's in charge of that culture?
It's a tough question. Well, theresearch says the people in
charge of the culture are thosewho harm or bully, but the
majority of the people are thebystanders, which is why, in
(23:20):
this book, we're urging kids totransform and practice, to turn
from bystanders into upstanders.
As a bystander culture, we allowthose who are harmed or bully
they're in charge of theplayground, they're in charge of
the cafeteria, Lord knows,they're in charge of the bus,
what goes on on a school bus. So
David Bryfman (23:40):
I get it, and I'm also a student of adolescent
psychology and group behavior,right? And here, we all know
that if you were trying to askthe average kid, whatever that
means term average a teenager,what's one of the most important
things for them, is like, I justwant to fit in. I just want to
blend in. I just want to belong.
I don't want to stand out. Idon't want to, like bring
(24:00):
attention to myself and andstand out for something against
the norm. So I hear you, on onehand, say we need to create a
generation of upstanders, andthen I'm saying, Are we just
asking too much from some of ourkids, or is there something
about being Jewish today, whichmaybe mandates this additional
responsibility, obligation? Andby the way, I think I could
extrapolate that to any minoritygroup, but in this case, it's a
(24:22):
discussion about Jewish
Unknown (24:24):
youth. I don't think we're asking too much. These
kids are bright. You know, ourmiddle schoolers are like high
schoolers. Social media is, youknow, throwing them into the
world perhaps too early. Theyhave online identities. And we
can talk about cyber bullying,because the social media is also
torturing our kids right withthese stereotypes and tropes?
Yeah,but I think what you said, David
about belonging, belonging is akey. It starts younger and
(24:47):
younger now and so oneindividual may not have the
courage to be an upstander byhimself or herself or
themselves. Health. But if wecan get two or three of them,
then they become a force. It'sgoing to take a long time you
(25:08):
don't change a pattern. I don'tremember the statistics, but I
think that something like, If akid is refusing a little one to
eat a certain food, the motherhas to try 17 times until he'll
even open his mouth. So this isnot a quick fix, but at least
it's a vision of what might beable to occur.
David Bryfman (25:34):
Let me take this just away from the curriculum
for a second. Just ask a generalquestion, okay, can you teach
Jewish pride? Uh,
Unknown (25:40):
yes, yes, you can. And we have Harlene Go ahead, yeah,
you start with little things.
You do it when they're little.
I'm very blessed. I have ninegrandchildren and three great
grandchildren, and let me tellyou that you can start as young
as infancy. All you have to dowhen you're putting them to bed,
(26:01):
you just say the Shema as partof their good night. You build
on that the pride starts when itcomes to a holiday, you do
something that pleases the kidsand you and you say the name of
the holiday. This is yourShabbos treat. You're not
allowed to eat the sugar cerealon any other day, but you could
have half a bowl on Shabbat. Ithink the
(26:24):
other thing that's important toknow about Jewish pride and
identity is that it can be funand it should be fun. It should
be joyous. Like Carlene said, itmight be 20 minutes a week. It
might be tucking your kid intobed, but parents and I think
grandparents can role modeltheir stories, their pride and
(26:44):
identity better. And that'sthat's part of the puzzle. Okay,
David Bryfman (26:48):
someone asked me this question recently, and it
stumped me, and it wasbasically, if you can teach
someone to be proud to beJewish, it also means that they
have the capacity to be ashamedto be Jewish. And what happens
when someone is actually ashamedor embarrassed about being
Jewish? How do you respond to astudent or a child who has that
(27:08):
feeling when they first come toyou?
Unknown (27:10):
Well, okay, you have to respect where they are, and you
can offer what we've beendiscussing so far, and I think
you have to be optimistic. Youput it out there, but there's no
assurance that they're going toaccept it. I think your demeanor
(27:32):
when you're offering it has tobe positive. If there's any
negativity in it or anger,there's less of a chance that
further on down the line, thatindividual may look back, but
nothing is perfect.
Most of my life, I have beenproud to be a Jew, but there are
(27:52):
times when a Jewish person isdishonest or does the wrong
thing, and I am embarrassed thatperson is part of my Jewish
tribe, so mostly, I'm proud.
We're not a perfect people.
There are people who don't dothe right thing and don't have
ethics and values, but I think,you know, not 100% but mostly
proud, most of the times, proud.
I
David Bryfman (28:14):
don't really want to ask this question, but I know
my listeners are going to wantto know the answer to it. What's
changed about your philosophyabout Jewish pride and
encountering anti semitism sinceOctober 7, if anything? Okay,
listeners can't see this, butboth of my guests are now taking
deep breaths.
Unknown (28:35):
All right, so I'll go first October 7. It's really,
really hard. It's shocking thatit happened. We're disappointed,
we're angry, and we're both veryempathetic the hostages. But if
we walk in the shoes of ourJewish kids, writing this,
starting this book, four yearsago, having no idea October 7
would happen, it's even worsefor our Jewish children. And
(28:56):
we're not, you know, not thatwe're not concerned about the
adults, but we want the adultsto wake up and help the kids so
to answer your question, andthey're, they're, you know,
pieces of of statistics. I wouldlike really good statistics on
this and more surveys, but ourkids are suffering even more and
worse of all ages,I think our Jewish population is
having a hard time. First ofall, Jews have always been free
(29:20):
thinkers, and always you get twopeople together, and you have
Jewish people together, and youhave six different arguments for
and against whatever is beingdiscussed. I mean, that's that's
just part of our culture, that'sjust the way we are. But we have
to realize that history repeatsitself. And so my reaction to
(29:44):
October 7 was, Oh, my goodness.
It happened again. It happenedagain. I go back through
everything I learned about ourhistory, and I start to say,
Yes, it happened then. Ithappened. Then it's been
slightly changed, but now it'shappened in my lifetime, my
(30:05):
children's lifetime, mygrandchildren's and my great
grandchildren. This is horrific.
We have to do something. So thatpushed me even more to try to
get this little itty bitty bookthat may help a small percentage
out so that people can use itand David. If I could add one
more thing, on October 7, I gotangry. I got angry that our
(30:29):
Jewish kids on college campuses.
I mean, I'm mad at how thecollege has handled it, but mad
at the Jewish people for so Illpreparing our college kids, for
them to get on the campus andnot know what to do and not know
what to say. Ill prepared. Whichis why the premise, as we go
(30:52):
back in time to when our kidsare 345, if we could start
earlier, that's one of the mostimportant messages on our
website and on the book to startearly with kids doing that pride
in identity, making it fun, sothat when our kids leave for
college or a career, thatthey're better prepared to push
back safely against antisemitism and all bias.
David Bryfman (31:15):
All right. There you have it. Folks, start young,
start early and be prepared. Iwas a boy scout as well at one
stage of my life. Final questionfor both of you, an educator in
your life who has helped toinspire or transform you?
Unknown (31:29):
Well, okay, this goes back. My father was one of
seven. His father, mygrandfather, Lichter, was one of
nine, and one of those nine wasRabbi Benjamin Lichter in
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. He wasthe rabbi at B'nai Israel
Synagogue in the east end ofPittsburgh, and Uncle Benny, we
(31:51):
all called him uncle Benny wouldbe at all the Jewish
celebrations, you know, just notfor the community, but for our
family. He was the one whotaught me first about extended
ideas in Judaism, and he alsoexhibited by model, the joy of
our religion. So I thank him forstarting me on this journey. And
(32:17):
Lynn, a personwho inspired for one of the
persons who inspires me is Drharline gallon, who got to meet
today. She's She just doesn'tstop working, and she's mentored
me and and really so helpful.
But quickly Stan Davis, aneducator in Maine who did
surveys of 10,000 children inMaine, elementary, middle and
(32:40):
high school that started us,Arlene and I, on this journey of
creating strategies, differentkind of strategies kids can use
to push back against all bias,and now to push back against
anti semitism. So to me, he'sthe father of a bullying
prevention system, but itapplies to bias and of course,
anti semitism,
David Bryfman (33:03):
Lynn, Harleen, thank you. Thanks for sharing
with us today, and thanks foranswering one of the questions
that I get a lot from Jewisheducators out there, and that is
what curriculum is out there tohelp me navigate the tricky
waters in which we're navigatingtoday. This book countering anti
semitism and hate is a how toguide for youth, which we've
classified for the purposes ofthe book, is ages eight to 18,
(33:25):
family and educators as well. Ithink it could extend to younger
kids as well. Look, it's anopening for many, many
conversations, and today'sconversation with all of you is
really just an opening for manyeducators to at least
acknowledge the issues here,maybe even download or have a
look at the curriculum itself,and to be in touch with both of
you for any potential follow up.
So thank you both for joining uson adapting today. Thank
Unknown (33:46):
you.
Thank you for having us, Davidand thanks for what you do
always
David Bryfman (33:50):
welcome today's episode of adapting was produced
by Dina nussenbaum and MirandaLapides. The show executives
producers are myself, KarenCummins and nessa lieben. Our
show is engineered and edited byNathan J Bourne of njv media, if
you enjoyed adapting today andthis season, please leave us a
five star rating on Applepodcasts. Leave us a comment,
and better still, share it witha friend. To learn more about
the Jewish education project.
Visit us@jewishedproject.orgThere you can learn more about
(34:13):
our mission history and staffand the work that we're doing to
fight antiSemitism or to combatand counter antiSemitism,
especially in our schools, andas always, we are a proud
partner of UGA Federation of NewYork. Thank you as always for
listening today. You.
The shine a light on anti semitism. Civic Courage
Award is now open fornominations. This is your
opportunity to recognize someonewho is actively combating the
rising tide of anti semitism.
This prestigious awardcelebrates individuals across
eight categories, includingstudents and educators, offering
a $2,000 prize and nationalrecognition. If you have someone
to nominate, visit shine thelight on.com forward slash
(00:22):
awards to nominate someone whoseactivism spreads light by
November 25 This is adapting thefuture of Jewish education a
podcast from the Jewisheducation project where we
explore the big questions,challenges and successes that
define Jewish education. I'mDavid Bryant.
(00:49):
Hi everybody, and thank you forjoining us on today's episode of
adapting the future of Jewisheducation. Now today's episode
might seem a bit different toyou as listeners, but I promise
that by the end of the episode,you'll see exactly why we've
decided to cover this importanttopic today. So I'm not normally
one to endorse books, but Iwelcome anybody sending me books
on topics related to Judaism andJewish education to read. I'm
(01:11):
also not necessarily a fan oflesson plans, per se. And here's
the reason, sometimes I thinkthat if you give a teacher a
lesson plan, that you've doneall of the work for them. And
some of the best experiencesthat I've had as an educator are
when you actually have to go andlearn about something to create
your own lesson plan. So givingsomeone a DIY lesson plan hasn't
(01:33):
always been part of my DNA. Thatbeing said, I came across a book
which sort of did exactly justthat, and I felt it important
enough to bring that to you,because I think it raised a
whole lot of extra conversationswith all of us, and I'm
delighted to have with us ontoday's podcast, Lynn azaki, who
is the former director of kidsbridge Youth Center in New
Jersey, and Helene LichterGalen, who is the chairperson of
(01:56):
kids bridge Youth Center. Andtogether, they have co authored
a book countering anti semitismand hate, a how to guide for
youth, family and educators,which we will link to in the
show notes of today's podcast.
Now, one more thing that I don'tlike doing before we actually
get into the conversation. Idon't like having conversations
about Jewish identity that baseJewish identity in the negative
forces, or the external forces,or what somebody else tells us
(02:20):
that we should be or should bedoing. So here you have it, I
don't endorse books. I'm not afan of lesson plans, and I don't
like anti semitism. And herewe're going to have today a
conversation about a book withlesson plans, exactly about
countering anti semitism, andwith that as probably the worst
introduction you can give to twoguests, possibly, I want to
welcome both Lynn and Harleenfor joining us on today's
(02:42):
episode. That's
Unknown (02:44):
a wonderful introduction, unique.
So let's start
David Bryfman (02:47):
off Lynn by answering the first question,
which I think is central, whatmotivated you both to write a
curriculum about fighting antisemitism today?
Unknown (02:55):
Well, David, you're a pleasure and a joy. Thanks for
inviting us today. It's reallyimportant. We all know Jewish
children are suffering, and sowe talk about adults, but
Harlene and I have been 21years. I mean, we have extensive
resumes, but together at kidsbridge, 21 years in anti bias
youth education, listening to35,000 kids, students, teachers
(03:20):
and parents. And how did thisall begin? So of course, we're
both Jewish. I was invited byour local Federation, our
Princeton Mercer bucksFederation, right before COVID,
to conduct a listening sessionfor parents. I listened, and we
all listened, and what we foundout was, four years ago, anti
(03:41):
semitism is really bad, and so Iwent to Harlene, working
together with kids bridge, and Isaid, you know, we're both
Jewish, our kids are suffering,and we both have a history of
understanding anti semitism formillennia, but today, our kids
are suffering. Let's write aguide book to help Jewish
parents, Jewish educators andJewish kids to better prepare
(04:03):
for anti semitism and all bias.
And so it took us three years,and now we have a guidebook.
David Bryfman (04:09):
Can I ask you to expand on the word suffering? It
seems in some ways, might likeit might be a bit of a
hyperbolic word, and in someways it might be a really real
word as well. So talk to me abit about why you use the word
suffering when you're talkingabout what our young people are
facing.
Unknown (04:23):
So I feel I was the kind of kid that wouldn't talk
to my parents. We have a lot ofkids like that today, starting
in elementary school, our kidsare hearing stereotypes, tropes,
bias against Jews, and we talkabout adults and helping adults,
and we're here today with you totalk about our kids are
(04:46):
suffering silently from mylistening session. Parents don't
know what to do. They don't knowhow to coach their kids, and our
kids are walking away, which is,if we can say identity and
pride, it's hurting theiridentity and pride. So. We're
here to tell you there arestatistics from ADL, but from us
listening we know around thecountry in this current
(05:09):
political climate, stereotypes,biases, tropes are in style, and
our kids are suffering and and Iknow this from listening to kids
in our area. So
David Bryfman (05:19):
who's the intended audience for for this
curriculum, for this book,
Unknown (05:22):
well, we would like to reach grandparents, parents and
youth and the childrenthemselves. You know, people
think that you have to have acurriculum. You do not. You can
begin with everyday occurrencesas young as with three year
olds, and it's not that hard todo so in this book, and it's a
(05:45):
short book, it's only a littleover 100 pages, we give you step
by step of how to do it. And Iwant to really say this word
loudly, safely, so that's ouraudience.
David Bryfman (06:02):
What does safely mean for you? I raise this
because we've had a conversationrecently where someone tried to
define the difference between asafe environment or a safe
learning space and a bravelearning space as well. But I'm
interested to hear from youspecifically, when you say a
safety environment, what do youmean by that? Harleen,
Unknown (06:16):
well, I mean that it's a situation where the hurt does
not become intensified. Itdoesn't mean the hurt goes away,
but you can handle the hurt andyou don't make it worse.
David Bryfman (06:29):
Interesting. I want to pick up on something
that you've said here related tois this a book about anti
semitism education or anti biaseducation? What are the
similarities and what are thedifferences? And I asked this in
the context of I have a badsuspicion that if you did a
listening tour of all types ofkids in America today, many of
(06:51):
them would describe some sort ofbias or discrimination of or
unsafe feeling that they'rehaving. And I'm not dismissing
any of that as being good atall, although some people might
claim it's a natural part ofjust growing up in a diverse
environment, I think it's apretty obscene thing to actually
admit. But is there somethingparticular about anti semitism,
or is it in the bucket ofgeneral biases that all people
(07:13):
are feeling? And you just wantedto raise the particularness of
anti semitism as it pertains toJewish students as well. So
Unknown (07:20):
anti bias is for our kids. It's a broken system, and
you're right for Muslim kids,for Asian kids, for any kids
that are not in the majority,they are suffering similarly
from different stereotypes andtropes. So our book, because
Harleen and I at a certain age,we became the other, you know,
(07:41):
being ashamed for our Jewishpride and identity. We don't
want kids to feel this way, butyou're on the pulse of what's
going on today. Yes, everyone'skids are suffering, and Harleen
and I are thinking about maybe aseries of books for Asians, for
LGBT, for Muslims, maybe onebroad umbrella of anti bias. But
yes, all of our kids aresuffering, and that concerns us
(08:02):
as well. But as Jews, we wrotethis book for Jewish parents,
educators, grandparents, we wantto start there, because that's
who we are. And we want toattend to the kids who don't
know what to do and theirparents who don't know what to
do. Yeah,
David Bryfman (08:15):
and that really comes through during the
curriculum. I want to ask acouple of specific questions,
what do you think is the mostcommonly used or abused trope,
anti semitic trope that ouryoung people are encountering
today. There's
Unknown (08:27):
a lot of Hail Hitler still going on. One of the ones
that really got to me waslooking at Jews as a pizza and
putting them in the oven.
They've gone that far to takethe well known trope of burning
up in the ovens in our pasthistory and made it modern by
changing it into a pizza. Butthe hurt is still there.
(08:54):
Some other tropes David are Jewsare cheap. Jews control the
media. Jews control Hollywood.
And new ones, I think, are beingcreated today. So this is,
again, what our kids arehearing, and they may not share
it with anybody. Okay.
David Bryfman (09:09):
This is really, really important. Do you think
when our young people hear someof those tropes about money,
cheap, controlling the mediathat they get or understand how
negative they are, or what thehistory behind those tropes are.
And I ask this because if you'rebeing picked on because of your
race or this color of your skinor your external sexual
(09:33):
orientation as you express it toother people, then it's pretty
obvious as to what you're beingpicked on. Right for young Jews,
if they hear things like moneylending as something which is
now being held against them, Ifeel like they might not even
have the origin story of whythat's actually a negative slide
against Jews. Other than that akid wants to cause me harm, both
from the person perpetratingthat vindictiveness and for the
(09:54):
Jewish kid receiving it. So Ithink the trope piece here is a
really important part of thecurriculum, and some of what you
really pay attention. Into isuncovering that particular
history. So how important was itfor you to uncover the
historical background for someof these, some of these used
tropes, it
Unknown (10:08):
was very important because you hit the nail on the
head. Half of what's beingspoken negatively to these kids
is not in their realm ofunderstanding at all. And so
within the book, we try to pickout the ones that are used most
often against them, and give abrief, and I say, brief history
(10:31):
of how it evolved, so thatperhaps they can begin to
understand that this has gone onfor centuries. It's not just
happening todayand David, if I could just
intersect. So I'm on the boardof my local JCC, and we have 300
kids in New Jersey going tocamp, learning pride and
identity, learning about Israeland to kind of lump, giving back
(10:54):
in community service. Half ofthose kids and this, I think, is
across the country, do notbelong to a synagogue. So if our
Jewish kids are only learningreally great two months of
Jewish pride and identity, theyare not really able to respond
to stereotypes and tropes. Solet me tell you, from the
research, the kids that do bestresponding to these tropes and
(11:17):
stereotypes and hate and insultsare the ones who have a strong
ethnic and religious identityupon that foundation of pride
and identity. It helps them withthe bias and the stereotypes of
the tropes they are hearing. I'mreally
David Bryfman (11:36):
interested in this term countering or
encountering the anti semitism.
No disrespect to any of us, noneof us are going to eradicate the
world of anti semitism, at leastnot through this 100 page
curriculum. So what's thepurpose? Like? What's the best
case scenario? A teacher teachestheir students this curriculum,
the kids know more stuff aboutthe origins and history of anti
semitism. Are able to identifythat the trope being thrown
(11:58):
against them is against theirreligious or their ethnic
background, and the kid doeswhat? As a result of that extra
knowledge that they have gained,they
Unknown (12:08):
may do nothing. You're right. They may do something.
Our hope is that not only willpeople who read this introduce
the strategies to their youth,but enable the youth to practice
them. You're right. They have topractice, practice, practice it
in a non threatening situation,so that when the threatening
(12:30):
situation occurs they can act.
And are we going to get 100%we'll be lucky if we get one or
2% of the kids that are exposedto use it, but you have to begin
somewhere. You can't just brushit under the carpet. We are a
nation, and I'm going to letLynn go into this a little bit
more. We are a nation ofbystanders. What is happening
(12:51):
within the Jewish community fitsin with the general population.
And I'll let Lynn brieflyexplain what she and I
understand bystanders in today'sculture. To be
David Bryfman (13:06):
Linda, please explain the bystander upstander
concept, but also some of theother strategies that you want
to deploy to our to our youngpeople as well through this book
and the curriculum.
Unknown (13:15):
So we'll get to upstanders in a minute. So
Harleen is right, and this isfrom the research. We are a
nation of bystanders, and Jewishare a nation of bystanders that
were embarrassed. We slink away.
You know, when I was teased orbullied, I would keep it in
myself. I just wouldn't tell myparents. Here's our vision. If
anti semitism is a system formillennia, and we know we're
5700 years old, it's a systemthat needs to be broken. Our
(13:39):
hope is if we can coach andencourage parents, grandparents
and kids to respond in adifferent way, maybe in 10 or 15
years, our broken system, theanti semitism, is reduced
because finally, we havedeveloped a cohort of kids who
are willing to stand up andspeak out. It's kind of quiet
(14:01):
out there. There's a lot.
There's a new thing forming. Ithink you brought this up, Jew
hatred. Just call it what it is,Jew hatred, instead of anti
semitism. So it's our vision.
Let's start now. Why do we waittill our kids are on college
campuses? David, they don't knowwhat to do. They're not
prepared. They're not practice.
Can we please as a peoplethrough synagogues, through the
(14:25):
coaching harlena And I have andwe're zooming and we're I just
came back from Miami, I was atthe JCC. Can we teach parents,
grandparents and kids themselvesto practice so that in 10 or 15
years there is less antisemitism, and we as a people,
are not slinking away. We'reproud to be Jews. We walk away
proud. That is our hope, andthat is our vision of writing
(14:48):
this guidebook.
David Bryfman (14:49):
Okay, let me just be really specific for a second.
I don't mean to be pedanticabout this. I'm a tween. I'm in
the playground. A kid throws apenny at me and says, Jew. Jump.
Which was something that Ilearned from some kids that I
spoke to as if to throw themoney at the Jewish kid who was
going to pick up the penny, theJewish kid could walk away and
do nothing. You're suggestingthat's what's been happening for
(15:10):
millennia, or at least ingrainedin today's society, as a result
of going through this particulartype of training or this
experience, rather than walkingaway from that particularly
intimidating scenario, afronting, embarrassing scenario
where one could be ashamed, onecould be despondent, one could
just say, laugh it off, apotential different strategy is
(15:33):
walking
Unknown (15:33):
away can still be done, but it's the way in which we
Jews walk away. Do we walk awayassertively, or do we walk away
as being punished with our headsdown? It's the small things,
because if you walk away inspite of what's been said, with
(15:54):
your back straight, an unhurriedstride, a look on your face that
is not one of doubt or one ofembarrassment, you have made a
statement that does not comeacross if you run away or if you
go away in another fashion. Soit's the little things that
(16:18):
change, but they're observed byothers. And the reason that we
emphasize practice is none ofthis is natural. It has to be
practiced.
So let me interject, David, toanswer your question, the penny
is thrown at the kid. We havefrom research, studied and used
at kids bridge. A variety ofstrategies that work. There's
(16:41):
not one strategy here. We givethe child options. So in
addition to the assertive pose,this child can tell a teacher
that child, you can go home andtell your parents at night that
child can get two or threefriends to go up to that person
the next day and say, That'sinsulting. That's not nice. You
(17:01):
have to stop that. So there areso many options that the child
is overwhelmed and may befrozen, but there are strategies
to do right then, and there arestrategies to do a little bit
after, and there are strategiesto do in a week. Why do we have
to figure out itinstantaneously? Because we
freeze. So for that option, thebook goes through different
(17:21):
strategies to build on whatHarleen said, practice those
strategies. It's coming. Youknow, the penny being thrown,
and Jews control this, orwhatever. You know, tropes
people have. Why weren't youprepared? Because nobody talked
to you about it.
David Bryfman (17:35):
I noticed you didn't give the option of go
Biff the kid in the nose, David.
Unknown (17:40):
That's not what we do.
So when a kid punches in thenose, he goes to the principal
with the other kid, and that'snot a good resolution. It's a
that is a short term strategy,what Harleen and I have created
a long term strategy forsuccess. And here's the other
very important point, this kidis broken. Maybe hearing from
the home this is like a personthat bullies, that wants
(18:02):
attention. If it is notresolved, this kid's going to go
to another kid. So if helpingDavid is not enough, we have to
help all the kids. I want to
David Bryfman (18:14):
mention something that come back to something
you've mentioned before, andthat is the Holocaust. You
referenced it before in terms ofone of the one of the images and
one of the tropes that peopleare spreading and hearing a lot
about today, the rise of NeoNazism or the fascism or
Holocaust rhetoric is definitelyprevalent today. But this book
is not about Holocausteducation, and there is an
interesting discussion going onin broader society about
(18:36):
Holocaust education. Should itor shouldn't be mandatory? What
are the lessons that we canlearn from the Holocaust. When
we say, never again, what do wemean by never again? I think all
of our listeners are relativelyfamiliar with the general
discourse, but I'm wondering foryou, why was it important to
include the Holocaust as anexplicit subject matter of
material in your discussionabout contemporary antiSemitism?
Unknown (18:59):
Because what is out there is lopsided. Our children
are adults by and large, andyou're going to find exceptions.
Only have one side of theseesaw. That's all they see.
They see the absolute horriblekilling of other human beings.
(19:20):
They see the Jews being led ascattle into these supposed
shower stalls where they aremurdered, burned alive. In some
instances, they don't see theother side. They don't see the
resistance are getting anunclear picture, and they the
(19:40):
total picture should beavailable to them,
If I could add to that. David, Iwent to Sunday school, religious
school my whole life. Got batmitzvahed, loved it, and what I
learned most were the horrifyingpictures of bodies in trenches
and bulldozers. I don't recall.
I. Until lately for this book,learning about the partisans,
(20:01):
30,000 partisans in Europefighting back resistance, living
in the woods, so brave. 30% ofthose fighters were women. Why
wasn't I taught that so that wecan teach the kids some new
things that relate to Jewishpride and identity, and what is
(20:22):
that, resistance and resilience?
30,000 partisans pushed back,lived in the woods and wrote
stories later, we need to sharethese stories of courage,
resistance and resilience. Weare been around, pushed around
for a long time, 5000 years. Weneed to be proud, and this
(20:44):
relates to Jewish pride andidentity, and this relates to
the Holocaust. Arlene, yeah,I would like to add that if you
talk of courage and bravery, ouryouth today will talk about the
IDF, the Israeli Defense Force,but what they have to see is
that there were brave Jews andcourageous Jews throughout our
history. Highlighting that isjust as important as knowing
(21:09):
about the evil chapters of theHolocaust. So
David Bryfman (21:16):
here I want to make an important distinction
for our listeners that thisdiscussion is not about
Holocaust education, per se. Ifone was to have a curriculum
about the Holocaust, it wouldnot just include stories about
partisans and resistancefighters, and by the way, my
late grandfather was a partisan,so I relate very well to the
story that you're describing.
But here you're suggesting thata largely untold or often
suppressed story of theHolocaust, when it comes to
(21:39):
educating our youth, is aboutthose people that stood up
against fascism, against theNazis, that were referred to in
some languages, upstanders. AndI think in some in some
curriculum, we talk about boththe Jewish upstanders and
resistance fighters and also therighteous Gentiles who stood up
against the Nazi forces as well.
And we're taking this particularpart of the Holocaust narrative
(22:00):
and elevating it in thisparticular concept, because you
largely believe that the conceptof standing up and being an
upstander is one of thestrongest antidotes that we
have, and if that's probably thestrongest theme throughout your
curriculum. So talk to us a bitabout this concept of what it
means to be an upstander intoday's world.
Unknown (22:18):
Yeah. So you may not know, and the people listening
may not know that I was readingthe age of genocide by Samantha
Power, and the book's very thickthe United States, turning us
back to genocides around theworld. So I'm reading bystander
by stander, and then suddenlyit's like a angelic moment. I
read the word up stander. Sowe've been using that word for
(22:40):
20 years. A person who stands upand speaks out and so merging
from positive things that we cando, upstanders can break the
model, break the system. Inother words, if you have 100
kids or 100 adults in a room,the majority of the people in
(23:00):
the room are bystanders. Theminority are the people who harm
her bully. But I ask you, David,who's in charge of that culture?
It's a tough question. Well, theresearch says the people in
charge of the culture are thosewho harm or bully, but the
majority of the people are thebystanders, which is why, in
(23:20):
this book, we're urging kids totransform and practice, to turn
from bystanders into upstanders.
As a bystander culture, we allowthose who are harmed or bully
they're in charge of theplayground, they're in charge of
the cafeteria, Lord knows,they're in charge of the bus,
what goes on on a school bus. So
David Bryfman (23:40):
I get it, and I'm also a student of adolescent
psychology and group behavior,right? And here, we all know
that if you were trying to askthe average kid, whatever that
means term average a teenager,what's one of the most important
things for them, is like, I justwant to fit in. I just want to
blend in. I just want to belong.
I don't want to stand out. Idon't want to, like bring
(24:00):
attention to myself and andstand out for something against
the norm. So I hear you, on onehand, say we need to create a
generation of upstanders, andthen I'm saying, Are we just
asking too much from some of ourkids, or is there something
about being Jewish today, whichmaybe mandates this additional
responsibility, obligation? Andby the way, I think I could
extrapolate that to any minoritygroup, but in this case, it's a
(24:22):
discussion about Jewish
Unknown (24:24):
youth. I don't think we're asking too much. These
kids are bright. You know, ourmiddle schoolers are like high
schoolers. Social media is, youknow, throwing them into the
world perhaps too early. Theyhave online identities. And we
can talk about cyber bullying,because the social media is also
torturing our kids right withthese stereotypes and tropes?
Yeah,but I think what you said, David
about belonging, belonging is akey. It starts younger and
(24:47):
younger now and so oneindividual may not have the
courage to be an upstander byhimself or herself or
themselves. Health. But if wecan get two or three of them,
then they become a force. It'sgoing to take a long time you
(25:08):
don't change a pattern. I don'tremember the statistics, but I
think that something like, If akid is refusing a little one to
eat a certain food, the motherhas to try 17 times until he'll
even open his mouth. So this isnot a quick fix, but at least
it's a vision of what might beable to occur.
David Bryfman (25:34):
Let me take this just away from the curriculum
for a second. Just ask a generalquestion, okay, can you teach
Jewish pride? Uh,
Unknown (25:40):
yes, yes, you can. And we have Harlene Go ahead, yeah,
you start with little things.
You do it when they're little.
I'm very blessed. I have ninegrandchildren and three great
grandchildren, and let me tellyou that you can start as young
as infancy. All you have to dowhen you're putting them to bed,
(26:01):
you just say the Shema as partof their good night. You build
on that the pride starts when itcomes to a holiday, you do
something that pleases the kidsand you and you say the name of
the holiday. This is yourShabbos treat. You're not
allowed to eat the sugar cerealon any other day, but you could
have half a bowl on Shabbat. Ithink the
(26:24):
other thing that's important toknow about Jewish pride and
identity is that it can be funand it should be fun. It should
be joyous. Like Carlene said, itmight be 20 minutes a week. It
might be tucking your kid intobed, but parents and I think
grandparents can role modeltheir stories, their pride and
(26:44):
identity better. And that'sthat's part of the puzzle. Okay,
David Bryfman (26:48):
someone asked me this question recently, and it
stumped me, and it wasbasically, if you can teach
someone to be proud to beJewish, it also means that they
have the capacity to be ashamedto be Jewish. And what happens
when someone is actually ashamedor embarrassed about being
Jewish? How do you respond to astudent or a child who has that
(27:08):
feeling when they first come toyou?
Unknown (27:10):
Well, okay, you have to respect where they are, and you
can offer what we've beendiscussing so far, and I think
you have to be optimistic. Youput it out there, but there's no
assurance that they're going toaccept it. I think your demeanor
(27:32):
when you're offering it has tobe positive. If there's any
negativity in it or anger,there's less of a chance that
further on down the line, thatindividual may look back, but
nothing is perfect.
Most of my life, I have beenproud to be a Jew, but there are
(27:52):
times when a Jewish person isdishonest or does the wrong
thing, and I am embarrassed thatperson is part of my Jewish
tribe, so mostly, I'm proud.
We're not a perfect people.
There are people who don't dothe right thing and don't have
ethics and values, but I think,you know, not 100% but mostly
proud, most of the times, proud.
I
David Bryfman (28:14):
don't really want to ask this question, but I know
my listeners are going to wantto know the answer to it. What's
changed about your philosophyabout Jewish pride and
encountering anti semitism sinceOctober 7, if anything? Okay,
listeners can't see this, butboth of my guests are now taking
deep breaths.
Unknown (28:35):
All right, so I'll go first October 7. It's really,
really hard. It's shocking thatit happened. We're disappointed,
we're angry, and we're both veryempathetic the hostages. But if
we walk in the shoes of ourJewish kids, writing this,
starting this book, four yearsago, having no idea October 7
would happen, it's even worsefor our Jewish children. And
(28:56):
we're not, you know, not thatwe're not concerned about the
adults, but we want the adultsto wake up and help the kids so
to answer your question, andthey're, they're, you know,
pieces of of statistics. I wouldlike really good statistics on
this and more surveys, but ourkids are suffering even more and
worse of all ages,I think our Jewish population is
having a hard time. First ofall, Jews have always been free
(29:20):
thinkers, and always you get twopeople together, and you have
Jewish people together, and youhave six different arguments for
and against whatever is beingdiscussed. I mean, that's that's
just part of our culture, that'sjust the way we are. But we have
to realize that history repeatsitself. And so my reaction to
(29:44):
October 7 was, Oh, my goodness.
It happened again. It happenedagain. I go back through
everything I learned about ourhistory, and I start to say,
Yes, it happened then. Ithappened. Then it's been
slightly changed, but now it'shappened in my lifetime, my
(30:05):
children's lifetime, mygrandchildren's and my great
grandchildren. This is horrific.
We have to do something. So thatpushed me even more to try to
get this little itty bitty bookthat may help a small percentage
out so that people can use itand David. If I could add one
more thing, on October 7, I gotangry. I got angry that our
(30:29):
Jewish kids on college campuses.
I mean, I'm mad at how thecollege has handled it, but mad
at the Jewish people for so Illpreparing our college kids, for
them to get on the campus andnot know what to do and not know
what to say. Ill prepared. Whichis why the premise, as we go
(30:52):
back in time to when our kidsare 345, if we could start
earlier, that's one of the mostimportant messages on our
website and on the book to startearly with kids doing that pride
in identity, making it fun, sothat when our kids leave for
college or a career, thatthey're better prepared to push
back safely against antisemitism and all bias.
David Bryfman (31:15):
All right. There you have it. Folks, start young,
start early and be prepared. Iwas a boy scout as well at one
stage of my life. Final questionfor both of you, an educator in
your life who has helped toinspire or transform you?
Unknown (31:29):
Well, okay, this goes back. My father was one of
seven. His father, mygrandfather, Lichter, was one of
nine, and one of those nine wasRabbi Benjamin Lichter in
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. He wasthe rabbi at B'nai Israel
Synagogue in the east end ofPittsburgh, and Uncle Benny, we
(31:51):
all called him uncle Benny wouldbe at all the Jewish
celebrations, you know, just notfor the community, but for our
family. He was the one whotaught me first about extended
ideas in Judaism, and he alsoexhibited by model, the joy of
our religion. So I thank him forstarting me on this journey. And
(32:17):
Lynn, a personwho inspired for one of the
persons who inspires me is Drharline gallon, who got to meet
today. She's She just doesn'tstop working, and she's mentored
me and and really so helpful.
But quickly Stan Davis, aneducator in Maine who did
surveys of 10,000 children inMaine, elementary, middle and
(32:40):
high school that started us,Arlene and I, on this journey of
creating strategies, differentkind of strategies kids can use
to push back against all bias,and now to push back against
anti semitism. So to me, he'sthe father of a bullying
prevention system, but itapplies to bias and of course,
anti semitism,
David Bryfman (33:03):
Lynn, Harleen, thank you. Thanks for sharing
with us today, and thanks foranswering one of the questions
that I get a lot from Jewisheducators out there, and that is
what curriculum is out there tohelp me navigate the tricky
waters in which we're navigatingtoday. This book countering anti
semitism and hate is a how toguide for youth, which we've
classified for the purposes ofthe book, is ages eight to 18,
(33:25):
family and educators as well. Ithink it could extend to younger
kids as well. Look, it's anopening for many, many
conversations, and today'sconversation with all of you is
really just an opening for manyeducators to at least
acknowledge the issues here,maybe even download or have a
look at the curriculum itself,and to be in touch with both of
you for any potential follow up.
So thank you both for joining uson adapting today. Thank
Unknown (33:46):
you.
Thank you for having us, Davidand thanks for what you do
always
David Bryfman (33:50):
welcome today's episode of adapting was produced
by Dina nussenbaum and MirandaLapides. The show executives
producers are myself, KarenCummins and nessa lieben. Our
show is engineered and edited byNathan J Bourne of njv media, if
you enjoyed adapting today andthis season, please leave us a
five star rating on Applepodcasts. Leave us a comment,
and better still, share it witha friend. To learn more about
the Jewish education project.
Visit us@jewishedproject.orgThere you can learn more about
(34:13):
our mission history and staffand the work that we're doing to
fight antiSemitism or to combatand counter antiSemitism,
especially in our schools, andas always, we are a proud
partner of UGA Federation of NewYork. Thank you as always for
listening today. You.
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