The Festival of Lights When We Need It Most

In the final 2024 episode of Adapting, David Bryfman hosts Jonathan Shmidt Chapman—award-winning artist, writer, and Jewish educator—for a lively conversation about bringing Jewish education to life through drama and creativity. Focusing on Chanukah, Chapman emphasizes using multi-sensory experiences, like smell and taste, to make Jewish traditions more immersive and meaningful for children and families. This episode explores how multi-sensory experiences like storytelling and imaginative play can make traditions more meaningful. At a time when we need it most, Chapman shares fresh ideas to illuminate Jewish education this holiday season and beyond. 

This episode was produced by Dina Nusnbaum and Miranda Lapides. The show’s executive producers are David Bryfman, Karen Cummins, and Nessa Liben. 
 
This episode was engineered and edited by Nathan J. Vaughan of NJV Media. 
 
If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a 5-star rating and review, or even better, share it with a friend. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and be the first to know when new episodes are released. To learn more about The Jewish Education Project visit jewishedproject.org where you can find links to our Jewish Educator Portal and learn more about our mission, history, and staff. We are a proud partner of UJA-Federation of New York. 

Episode Transcript

David Bryfman (00:00):
Hi everybody, and we are recording today's episode
of adapting on December 13, 2024in the lead up to Hanukkah, and
hopefully you're listening tothis episode in the days leading
up to that amazing holiday whichso many of us will celebrate all
around the world. And today'sepisode is really a discussion
about that holiday, but throughthe eyes of an educator who

(00:20):
really engages the entire familythrough theater, through drama,
through creativity and play. AndI think now more than ever, we
need to bring ourselves back towhat Jewish education can and
all should be about. And in someways, this episode is a break
from our traditional or a breakfrom our programming that we've
had for an extended period oftime. And I've done it

(00:42):
deliberately to remind us thatas all of the things going on in
the world around us, asdifficult and challenging as
some of those moments might be,that there is a calendar, that
there is a cycle. There is apattern of Jewish repetition and
ritual and holidays that wecan't lose sight of, and
especially, and maybe reallyespecially today, that the
holiday of Hanukkah is a timefor Jewish pride and Jewish joy

(01:04):
to be and to resonate throughall of our lives and through all
of our families, in spite of theongoing challenges that some of
us are experiencing and forthese eight days towards the end
of the calendar year of 2024that I want to wish everybody a
Happy Hanukkah, a time for youand your families to be able to
celebrate together and to listenand learn to Jonathan and to
take some of those learningswith you and to your friends and

(01:26):
your family as well. He reallysets the bar high, but I think
it's really attainable for allof us to bring more joy into our
lives at a time when we all needit. So happy. Hanukkah to
everybody, and I'm sure you'llenjoy today's episode of
adapting as much as I didrecording it. This is adapting
the future of Jewish education,a podcast from the Jewish
education project, where weexplore the big questions,

(01:48):
challenges and successes thatdefine Jewish education. I'm
David breifman,so I'm really thrilled to be
able to have as my guest today,Jonathan Schmidt Chapman, who is
an award winning artist, writerand Jewish educator. I don't
normally go into deep BIOS withall of my guests, but I do want

(02:08):
to point out two of the awardswhich Jonathan has received, or
at least two of them. He is oneof the recipients of the Robert
M Sherman Young Pioneer Award atthe Jewish education project. So
we are thrilled that he's partof our extended family there,
and also He is the recipient ofa covenant foundation
pomegranate award for anemerging Jewish educator. And I
guess now you're a veteranJewish educator. So Jonathan,

Unknown (02:30):
welcome to adaptive today. Thank you. Thank you so
much for having me. So

David Bryfman (02:33):
we really want to have this conversation not just
about your work, but also in thelead up to Hanukkah. It's a time
of spreading joy and happinessin a pretty complicated world,
and we wanted to have thatconversation with you. But
before we get there, why don'tyou tell us a bit about
yourself, specifically theemphasis in drama and the arts
in your in your wholeeducational philosophy and
framework.

Unknown (02:54):
I come to Jewish education by way of a background
in theater for young audiencesand educational theater. So what
does that mean? I specialize increating multi sensory
performance for kids andfamilies, mostly kids under
seven years old. And then I alsohave studied how to use theater
in educational settings to bringany content to life, through

(03:16):
play, through hands onparticipation, through
creativity. So I bring thatbackground and that pedagogy.
Now to Jewish education to thinkabout how we can activate
tradition using these tools in ahands on sensory way.

David Bryfman (03:29):
All right, so let's talk about this multi
sensory thing, because I thinkit's a it's pretty cool. And I
think maybe a podcast is theleast multi sensory format that
we could be communicating in atleast, at least one sense is
being utilized, I guess, but canmaybe give an example of what a
multi sensory Jewish experiencelooks like for you. Yeah. So

Unknown (03:47):
I think about story a lot. Story is really the anchor
for me in thinking about how webring young children and
families into Jewish tradition,and thinking about how we can
use all of our senses as ways tobring those stories to life. So
rather than an experience thatwould be passive, where I'm just
watching or listening, I'm usinga variety of ways to engage. I'm

(04:09):
receiving information throughlanguage and music. Maybe I'm
actually touching props orsensory engagement with physical
items that evoke the story. I'musing my body and my imagination
to act things out, actually,very similar to the way we would
engage with Passover. You know,I think it's part of our
tradition to think about, youknow, kilu, who ya saw me,
Miranda, right? We're imaginingas if we ourselves left Egypt,

(04:32):
and we do things around Pesachto embody the story, right,
using our senses. So I kind oftake that idea and apply it
across Jewish education. How dowe use all of the ways that we
can engage to really feel thesestories and be a part of them?
So

David Bryfman (04:46):
talk Pesach for a bit. Tell us. Tell us. What does
the Jonathan Schmidt ChapmanPassover something look like?

Unknown (04:51):
So last year, I staged a show called across the sand
that had families and childrensitting at long tables that. The
experience began. It looked likeyou were sitting at a Seder
table, and then, as the artistfacilitators entered the room,
removed the cover on the tableand revealed underneath was a
map that looked like we werearriving in ancient Egypt, and

(05:14):
the story unfolded on the tablesin front of us. So we pass a
miniature basket along a NileRiver. We build structures out
of blocks in front of us tocreate Egypt. We use fabric to
cross the Red Sea so through thestory, using ways to play out
the moments and to feelliterally immersed in it. There

David Bryfman (05:35):
are so many things I want to talk to you
about, but let's start with thisone. You've used the word play a
couple of times, and I want tobetter understand from you what
play means, because the audiencecould, you know, have one
meaning of this. The kids arehaving fun, they're playing
soccer, they're playing in theplayground, they're having fun.
And I think you mean something abit more, you know, nuanced than
that. Maybe you call it seriousplay, maybe you don't, but when

(05:56):
you talk about play, what areyou referring to? I'm

Unknown (05:59):
referring to imaginative play. Guided
imaginative play, meaning thatis a language that's very
familiar to a young child,right? They play act all the
time. They dramatically play tolearn about the world. It's very
easy for them to imaginethemselves in a different place
inside of a story. So I kind ofharness that tendency, right,

(06:20):
that natural language ofchildren, and really the work is
trying to encourage grown ups toaccess that again, right, to
find that inner play, to be ableto play alongside their child.
So what does that mean? Thatmeans that I'm going to
physicalize parts of a story.
I'm going to imagine and embodyas if I were there, right? So if
I'm leading a family workshoparound the story of Hanukkah, we

(06:41):
might be running along withJudah through the city. We might
help, you know, imaginerebuilding the temple after it's
been destroyed. And so we'reusing our imaginations to
activate moments from a storyand then bring them to life
through play, through physicalplay, and through imagination.
And these are the kind offoundations of, you know,

(07:05):
theater based play. Rather thanusing those tools to do a show
on a stage, I'm using them in anenvironment to to connect with
other people, to imagine myselfinside a story, and to use
joyful embodiment to connectboth with content and in a
social setting. Maybe

David Bryfman (07:23):
this is a silly question, or maybe this is the
the serious question at theheart of all of this, like, I'm
actually learning something,

Unknown (07:30):
it's a great question.
So my favorite thing about artseducation in this way, it's not
just about joy, although there'sa lot of joy to it, and I think
there's a huge benefit inconnecting people through joyful
experience. But the researchshows us that when we especially
young children, when they engagein story in a hands on, sensory,
embodied way, they're actuallybuilding deeper memory

(07:52):
retention. So the story willstick, the learning will stick
in a different way than apassive learning experience,
because they've acted it out,because they've been a part of
it, because they're buildingconnections between the story
and visual or tactile, sensoryexperiences. So when they recall
it, they're going to rememberpassing that basket down the
river. They're going to rememberbuilding the temple, right?

(08:14):
These images will come back andthose so the research shows both
that those memories stick in adeeper way. It's more impactful.
And we're increasing socialbonding, that when I have a play
based experience with otherpeople, I feel more connected to
community because of the waywe've enacted it. So I think
those things are reallypowerful. I think we can apply
that idea throughout education.

(08:36):
It supports learning in it in amuch deeper way, as well as
being fun and joyful and light.
So you've

David Bryfman (08:42):
mentioned this a couple of times, and I don't
know if it's intentional or justthat it's just become part of
your everyday language that aslong with your you know, seven
year old and younger kids, theparents and the families are
involved almost at every step ofthe description that you've
given us so far. What role dothe families play in all of
this? And is this more for theparents than it is for the kids.
Talk a bit about that. I

Unknown (09:03):
think the parents, you know, the grandparents, the
caregiver, is equally, if notmore, important as a
participant. Because if I canbring the whole family into
Jewish engagement, Jewishdiscovery through play, and give
them the tools to play withtheir child, to be playful, to
be creative, to think aboutJewish engagement as something

(09:24):
we can experiment with and havejoy with, hopefully that that
will translate to what they canbring into the home. I think
what I what I see, is a lot ofgrown ups coming into Jewish
spaces with a lot of baggage.
They walk in, into a learningenvironment kind of really
guarded and bringing somepossibly bad experiences from
their childhood in this is goingto be boring. I'm not going to
know what's going on. I'm goingto feel like I don't have enough

(09:46):
information to participate. Mychild will be embarrassed,
right? All this baggage thatcomes into the room. And so if I
can treat them as a learner andan artist alongside their child,
right, leaning into the idea.
You that we're going to learntogether. We're going to be
curious together. We don't haveall the answers, and we're not
afraid to be silly thathopefully will stick in a way

(10:07):
that carries on way past theexperience that I lead on that
particular day.

David Bryfman (10:12):
Yeah, I'm taking myself back to my kids when they
were at a similar age, and I hadno trouble being silly with them
in a music class or, you know,an art class of some
description. And what you'resaying is, yeah, that's what
parents do with their kids. Whynot do it in a in a Jewish
learning environment as well? Imean, what you're saying is so
obvious when you say it, andperhaps not so obvious when it's
being thought about in otherspaces.

Unknown (10:34):
Yeah, yeah. I think parents also feel a lot of
pressure to get it right, orfeel pressure around what it
means to bring Jewish ritualinto the home and feel that, you
know, they don't have the toolsto figure out what that means
for them based on whateverexperiences they're bringing in
from their childhood, from theirupbringing. But if we can help
them access that spirit of playthat they might have, as you're

(10:56):
saying, in other spaces, andbring that to the way that they
engage Jewishly, I think it cantransform the way that that
comes into the home and how itimpacts the child and really,
the whole family. All right,

David Bryfman (11:07):
so let's use that segue of the home and Jewish to
talk about possibly the holidaycelebrated by more Jews in
America than any other holiday,at least in the home of all the
holidays, and that is Hanukkah.
And this episode is beingreleased in the week leading up
to Hanukkah. So talk to us a bitabout your thoughts on Hanukkah
and Hanukkah as a family afamily holiday,

Unknown (11:28):
something I try to do is help kids and families
connect the rituals of Hanukkahto the meaning behind the
holiday. I think it's one of themost overlooked stories in
connection to the actual holidayengagement, right? We know
families might like them in theHanukkah. They may play dreidel

(11:49):
or have guilt out. They're goingto hopefully, you know, connect
with other family and get intothe spirit of the holiday, but
they may not impart the why,right? Why do we like the
Hanukkah? Why do we playdreidel? And I think that there
are age appropriate ways tobring the story of the holiday
to life that may feel morecomfortable for families, but

(12:09):
what that does anchoring itright in this epic story of
feeling of a period of time whenwe felt like we couldn't be
Jewish, we couldn't be proud ofwho we were, and we needed to
band together as a community, tonot feel alone, right? And in
community, we could be strongerand proud of our traditions, and
maybe seeing how they resonatemore deeply when they're

(12:30):
threatened, right? When we can'texperience something that is a
given, how that much moreimportant it becomes. Those are
themes that are incrediblyresonant right now. And if we
can help families access thatfeeling when they're
experiencing Hanukkah, I thinkit'll it'll have a much more
meaningful impact for them,along with, you know, the fun

(12:52):
and the joy and the light of therituals. So this

David Bryfman (12:55):
may or may not go down well over podcast, and I'm
putting you on the spot here,but give me your best shot.
What's your two minute your twominute Spiel in front of a group
of kids about why Hanukkah ismeaning, like, pretend the
audience is a group of childrenand their families. Like, how do
you put it out? Because, and Iwant to like, this is not a
footnote, but like, the story ofHanukkah has multiple versions
in some way, so you're obviouslygoing to choose a particular

(13:16):
story, but let's hear it fromyou. Tell the story of Hanukkah
as if you're telling it to agroup of young kids and their
families

Unknown (13:23):
in ancient Israel, there was a moment when we were
worried about whether we couldbe Jewish or not. The hero of
our story, Judah, was walkingthrough the marketplace in
ancient Jerusalem when hesuddenly heard a decree from the
King, from king Antiochus, whosaid, you can no longer be
Jewish, you can no longer eatjewish foods, you can no longer

(13:46):
read your Jewish stories, youcan no longer practice your
traditions. Judah couldn'tbelieve what he heard. He ran
home to his family, who werealready preparing to go out into
the wilderness to hide becausethey were worried about what was
going to happen. And beforeJudah left the city, he noticed
that the beautiful temple wherehe lit the menorah in the temple

(14:06):
every night to shine lightthrough the city was being
trampled by the Greek guards ofthe King Judah family and all of
the Jewish people ran into thewilderness and hid. They hid who
they were. They were nervousabout being able to be Jewish.
They even invented games likedreidel to be able to pretend
they were doing something elseif they were caught reading

(14:28):
stories from the Torah. But oneday, Judah went around to his
community and said, This isn'tright. We need to be proud to
shine our light. We need to beproud of who we are, and if we
work together, we can change theKing's mind and we can bring
light back to the city. Andalone, they were afraid, but
together, they were powerful,and they were able to change the
King's mind. And as they tookback the temple and they started

(14:51):
to rebuild and bring the menorahback up, they realized they
didn't have enough oil to lightthe menorah to bring light to
the city. They only had. Onelittle jug that would only last
for one night until they couldmake more oil. But a beautiful
miracle happened, and that oillasted for eight nights. And
just like that, oil started as alittle bit and was able to bring

(15:15):
light for eight days. Just likethat, Judah was able to make
change by bringing communitytogether. So at Kanuka time, we
feel proud. We shine our light.
We feel proud of who we are, ofour Jewish traditions, and we
share them with the world.

David Bryfman (15:32):
All right.
Audience, just in case thisdoesn't feel authentic to anyone
like that was a first take andan only take of a question to
Jonathan that had no priorbackground preparation
whatsoever. And that was, thatwas remarkable. Well, that was
phenomenal.

Unknown (15:51):
I also think, you know, when we root those images in a
story, right, as we are lightingthe hanukkiah every night, we're
remembering how important thatlight was, right, we're doing
something that had hugesignificance, that people fought
for, and even the symbol ofdreidel right, the creativity of
our people, to say, there aremoments when we feel afraid, but

(16:12):
we're still going to find waysto be proud of being Jewish,
even if we have to be creativeabout it, even if we have to
find ways to be safe. I thinkthose ideas really resonate
today for families who, quitefrankly, are concerned about how
to both proudly be Jewish andalso be safe, depending on where
they live, depending on the theway they feel around anti
semitism in their community,it's a it's a difficult moment,

(16:35):
and one that is, I think, evenmore important, to feel that
sense of pride around thisparticular holiday as the
meaning behind why we do this.
How do you talk

David Bryfman (16:44):
about those issues with kids and their
families these days? Or don'tyou, because obviously there's a
heightened sense of many ofthose issues that you just spoke
about. Are these things that youyou actively engage in, or the
parents want to talk to youabout afterwards? Or how do you
talk about some of these, thesenew realities that I'm sure all
of us are experiencing some formor another,

Unknown (17:02):
I think, highlighting the idea that throughout our
history, there have been momentswhere we feel small as a people
in a community that is doingsomething else, and rather than,
rather than leaning into feelingsmall in those moments to be
proud of these things that we'veheld on to for a long time,
right leading into gratitude,also for the ability to keep
practicing our traditions andrecognizing there were moments

(17:25):
when those things were notavailable to us. And I think
maybe the most important isgiving families and kids
experiences of Jewish joy to notonly focus on when we couldn't
do this or this was not allowed,but recognizing, why was this
even important? Why did we careso much that we needed to fight
for these traditions? Why are weproud to be Jewish and giving

(17:48):
that a sense of joy incommunity, rather than only
focusing on the fear or thenegativity? I think that
families and kids really needthat, that sense of pride and
connection and joy, so I

David Bryfman (18:01):
probably should have done more background on
this, but I can't remember whenthe last time it was that
Hanukkah and Christmascoincided. But more importantly,
this year, where the first nightof Hanukkah coincides with
Christmas Eve, seems to be likethat doesn't happen every that
doesn't happen very often atall. Yeah, but I'm wondering
this year, and I know thatyou've worked with and continue

(18:22):
to work with many families whoare interfaith families, or
where one parent is Jewish andthe other is not of any faith.
But I'm wondering this year ofhaving Hanukkah and Christmas
coinciding, have you thoughtabout that? Has that entered
into your work, your discussionsin general, how do you approach
interfaith families, andspecifically Hanukkah this year
might have a special resonanceor significance for some

(18:43):
families.

Unknown (18:44):
Yeah, I think first of all, my approach through theater
and play is one that is open,accessible and based in
curiosity, and so I often findthat that way in provides a safe
place for interfaith families toenjoy and engage, right? They're
not afraid to learn a storytogether, to play something

(19:05):
together, to experiment in a waythat feels comfortable, rather
than feeling like solely areligious experience, right? So
that's number one. Like, how canwe engage in multiple
traditions, by being curious, bylearning about them, without
feeling like I'm beingindoctrinated right by like I
can, I can engage. The otherthing that I've been doing a lot

(19:26):
of teaching around this year isI know I'm spinning it in my own
way. Is a piece of Talmud that Ireally connect with this, this
other alternate meaning behindwhy we celebrate an eight day
celebration of light at thistime of year. And this piece of
Talmud talks about this storyaround Adam and Eve and the
first winter, and the momentwhen darkness was increasing

(19:49):
every night and how scared theywere, thinking, Oh, the world's
gonna descend into totaldarkness. And then that moment
of switch right, the moment whenthe days start to get longer,
again, recognizing, oh, this isthe natural order of. The world,
right, like light will nowslowly come back and creating an
eight day celebration in thatperiod of time. And the Talmud
sort of uses the story toexplain why there are so many

(20:11):
traditions at this time of yearthat are about bringing light in
a moment of dark. So I thinkthat this is an idea rooted in
Jewish tradition, but we can seewe can feel connected to not
just Christianity, but a rangeof holidays and traditions that
are about this moment where wefeel most alone. We feel the
world getting darker and darkerand filling it with light,

(20:32):
filling it with joy, feelingconnected to other people,
leaving our homes and beingproud of who we are. That's a
way I think, that we can connectand interfaith families around
multiple traditions and culturesthat are really all about
bringing light at this moment ofdark and using that both as a
metaphor and the reality of itat this time of year. Can

David Bryfman (20:50):
you say something, if you can, about the
tradition of placing thehanukkiah in your window for all
of your neighbors to be able tosee?

Unknown (20:58):
Yeah, I think this goes back to what we were talking
about before, of this, thisfeeling of being proud, of
saying we're not just going todo this tradition, but we're
going to share with otherpeople, right? We're going to
share our light. We're going toshow that this is what we do at
this time of year, and beingproud to do that, you know, not
to bring the conversation down.
But I train a lot of earlychildhood educators and other
educators in Jewish spaces. Andlast year and this year, there's

(21:21):
been real tension for themaround how to teach the pride of
the holiday, of saying, Put yourmenorah out and be proud. You
know, go to that Hanukkahlighting. And Hanukkah is all
about sharing that, and the realconcerns that the parents or
caregivers in their communityhave around depending on where
they live, feeling nervous aboutthat, about that public showing

(21:41):
of their Jewish engagement. Andfor educators, specifically, I
think they're wrestling withbeing true to that lesson and
also acknowledging that parentsare in different places around
how they want to publicly beJewish in this moment, and
honoring that without scaringthe kids and hopefully
instilling in them a feeling ofpride and a feeling of wanting
to to share their traditions. Asyou're speaking,

David Bryfman (22:06):
I'm beginning to like think, Jonathan, you're
such an amazing educator, andyou've got such a rich history
in theater and art. But then youjust said, as you go around
teaching other educators to dothis type of work, who
presumably, many of them don'thave theater art background. So
when you're teaching otherteachers to do this work, what
are some of the basics? The oneOh, ones that you're trying to

(22:26):
give them to be able to bringall of this love of the arts and
culture into into their work,

Unknown (22:31):
the very first thing I want to accomplish when I work
with educators is to help themsee that they're actually
artists. I think education andthe modality of being an artist
are very connected, and thereare a lot of educators, when I
start with that, who will say,I'm not an artist, I don't make
art. Don't tell me to doanything creative. And yet,
they're constantly usingcreativity in the classroom.

(22:52):
They're generating they'remaking decisions on their feet,
they're responding to the needsof their students. They're
hopefully playing alongsidethem. And I think if I can help
them see that inner artist inthem and look through the lens
of their work as what? What if Ilooked at this as art rather
than what I code as education?
What might that open up? Thetools I try to give them are a
variety of obviously, mymodality is performing arts,

(23:12):
right? So thinking about how wecan use a variety of techniques
to bring story to life, whetherit's helping students
physicalize, right, using theirbodies to either create
character or to createlandscape, right? How can we use
our bodies to create the shapeof the temple physically, giving
them the tools of puppetry? Solooking at how I use objects and

(23:32):
tabletop work to bring storiesto life in miniature or using
shadow puppetry, different toolsthat they can use that are not
about physical performance, butbringing story to life, using
materials and then alsoaccessing other thinking about
ways to look at a story throughmultiple senses. That's really
one of the key techniques that Ioffer, that I look at with

(23:55):
teachers. So what I call it is asensory audit. If I were to look
at a story, what are the sounds?
What are the materials, right?
What are the possibilities formovement? And how can I convey
this story to you without words?
And what might that open up? Soyou know, if I'm telling a story
to you, what is it to put if it,let's say we're telling the part

(24:17):
of the Hanukkah story, it's setin the wilderness. What is it to
put on sounds of the wildernessbehind me while I tell that part
of the story, it immediatelytransports the kids in the room
right, just by using a differentsense, I allow them to imagine
themselves in a new place. Sothese are like simple tools that
even a teacher who didn't studytheater can start to incorporate

(24:37):
into their classroom as astoryteller, as a way to bring
experiences to life for theirstudents, and hopefully use
different modalities than theones that you know they've
traditionally used to to conveycontent and story.

David Bryfman (24:51):
So I think you've hit on four of the senses so
far. Can we talk about taste fora second, given that it's
Hanukkah coming up, are you asufgan yacht? Person? Or a latke
person. How do you talk aboutthose and experiment with those
with your kids as well?

Unknown (25:04):
Definitely a latke person. Yeah, that's, that's a,
that's an interesting challenge,right, to incorporate smell and
taste. So I trained with atheater maker named Tim Webb,
who is a pioneer in sensorytheater based in the UK, and
every one of the experiencesthat he created for kids and
families, specifically, he wouldspecialize in zero to five year

(25:26):
olds would in some wayincorporate those tools. So, for
example, he might like spray ascent onto a fan and waft it
over the room so that the smellof the moment of that story is
actually like filling the air inthe space, obviously, Hanukkah,
you know, just the the ideasafely, obviously, of frying

(25:47):
anything in oil is a sensoryexperience that sticks with you,
right? So, more

David Bryfman (25:52):
than eight days, what's Jonathan? One message you
want to send to families? And Idon't know if there any kids
listening to the podcast aboutabout Hanukkah and Hanukkah this
year, especially, to lean

Unknown (26:03):
into both the meaning of the holiday and the joy that
it brings, to use this as amoment, to fill your family and
your community with light, to beout there and proudly Jewish in
this moment, and thinking abouthow to use the holiday as a
vehicle for that, and possiblyThinking about what's one thing
you could do every night ofHanukkah for eight nights that

(26:24):
makes it feel unique anddifferent. Can you play a
different kind of game with thedreidel, where every time it
lands on a on a differentletter, you create a dance move
and have a dance a dreidel danceparty with your family. How can
you retell the story usingflashlights and paper to make
cutouts and create shadows onthe wall using simple things
around the house, makingHanukkah playful and making a

(26:47):
moment out of the togethernessof the family, beyond giving
presents and lighting thekanakia, what how can you
challenge yourself to reallymake it a time to connect and
play alongside your kids? Andfinally,

David Bryfman (26:59):
Jonathan, is there an educator in your life
who has helped shape transformyou and make you into the
educator that you are today,that you would like to pay
tribute to as part of thisadapting episode?

Unknown (27:09):
I love this question. I always think about the time I
learned with Elie Wiesel. So Ihad the honor of being a student
of his at Boston University whenI was an undergraduate, and I
took a class called, I think itwas called literature of
oppression, and he specificallyused story as a way to connect
to times throughout history as avehicle for walking in somebody

(27:31):
else's shoes to understand whatthey experienced. And the way
that he spoke about personalstory and connection as a way
for us to learn really stuckwith me, and I think is deeply
embedded in everything I do

David Bryfman (27:45):
at the time. Did you realize you're learning from
one of the greats of the Jewishpeople? Or is it like, yeah,
he's just another professor.

Unknown (27:52):
No, I hung on his every word. I mean, it was, it was an
honor just to get into theclass. You had to write an essay
in order to be chosen to be inthe class, so it was already a
big deal to be there, and hewould be there for once a week,
and then he was traveling andspeaking and going to the United
Nations, and then he'd come backand tell us where he was over
the course of the week. And whatI thought was fascinating is he

(28:13):
specifically didn't putHolocaust literature on the
syllabus. He chose to look atother moments, other periods of
time, and, you know, through,obviously, the way he taught, we
would connect his experience towhat was happening in these
other narratives. But he spokein poetry, and he was one of
those people who I I just wantedto listen to and absorb and

(28:35):
sponge as much as I could as Iwas in his room,

David Bryfman (28:38):
and not to compare, but I felt a bit like
that during this conversation.
Jonathan, so thank you literallyhanging on to every word here.
It's been a real delight and apleasure to reconnect with you
and to have this conversation.
And thank you for all the workthat you do. Thank you for
bringing joy and light into theworld when perhaps we needed as
much as ever, and thanks forbeing a guest with us today on
adapting. Thank

Unknown (28:59):
you, and I need to share that the young pioneers
award, really, I think, helpedthe trajectory of my career and
my place in Jewish education. Itcame to me in a moment when I
was still sort of experimentingwith this shift from the arts
world to the Jewish educationworld, and not really knowing,
is there a place for me in thisfield? I'm just really

(29:21):
tinkering, I'm exploring, I'mthere's a curiosity here, and
that award shining a light on mywork, and saying no, you belong
in this community, really set meup for this path of shifting my
focus to Jewish education. So Ijust want to say thank you for
that honor and the way that itreally shaped my trajectory.

David Bryfman (29:40):
This is a total episode of being unprepared, but
it's a good segue for me to atleast mention that the
nominations for this year'sRobert M Sherman Young Pioneers
award are now open. And if youare a New York based educator,
or you know of somebody who isdoing some great work in Jewish
education under the age of, oh,I think it's 36 please nominate
them for. One of these awards,and you too can be like Jonathan

(30:02):
Schmidt Chapman and appear on afuture episode of adapting as
one of our award winners. Butseriously, Jonathan, thank you
so much for joining us today areal, real pleasure, and treat
with everybody.

Unknown (30:11):
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

David Bryfman (30:14):
Today's episode of adapting was produced by Dina
nussenbaum and Miranda Lapides.
The show's executive producersare myself, Karen Cummins and
nessa lieben and our show isengineered and edited as always,
by Nathan J Vaughan of njbmedia. If you enjoyed today's
episode of adapting and thisseason as a whole, please leave
us a five star rating on Applepodcast. Even better, still,
share this episode with a friendand help bring joy into their

(30:34):
life as well, especially at thistime of year. To learn more
about the Jewish educationproject and all of our resources
related to Hanukkah and otherthings. Visit
[e-mail] There youcan learn more about our mission
at history of staff and the manyprograms and resources that we
have available to you. And asalways, we are a proud partner
of UJA Federation of New York.
Thank you as always forlistening today and Happy

(30:56):
Hanukkah to everybody you