September 8, 2025 • 34 mins
This episode is the first episode of a four part series on stigma.
This episode is done in collaboration with Central Coast Overdose Prevention (CCODP) and was made possible by California Overdose Prevention Network Accelerator funding from the Public Health Institute's Center for Health Leadership and Impact.
In this episode, Ana Alamo shares her powerful journey from addiction to recovery, revealing how her personal struggles now help her connect with clients as a peer support specialist.
• Born and raised in Salinas, Anna experienced childhood trauma at age five that shaped her early years
• She started using cannabis in middle school and developed a pattern of fighting and substance use
• Her use progressed to using pills including Norcos and Xanax from age 20-25
• Legal trouble became her wake-up call after being involved with fentanyl-laced pills that caused someone's death
• She now works as a peer support specialist and recently graduated with an Associate's degree in Addiction Studies
• She uses her lived experience to connect authentically with clients, especially teenage girls
• She does her best to balance accountability with compassion
• Family took approximately four years to fully trust her again
• Therapy helped her develop vulnerability and begin the ongoing process of self-forgiveness
• She plans to continue her education at CSUMB pursuing psychology
We discuss the stigma and judgement that she felt along the journey through her addiction
And we also discuss how she makes sure her clients with addiction don't feel judgment or stigma from her now that she is a peer support specialist
If you're struggling with addiction, know that recovery is possible. Ana's story shows how our darkest moments can become our greatest strengths in helping others.
To contact Dr. Grover: ammadeeasy@fastmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Addiction Medicine Made Easy
Podcast.
Hey there, I'm Dr Casey Grover,an addiction medicine doctor
based on California's CentralCoast.
(00:22):
For 14 years I worked in theemergency department seeing
countless patients strugglingwith addiction.
Now I'm on the other side ofthe fight, helping people
rebuild their lives when drugsand alcohol take control.
Thanks for tuning in.
Let's get started.
Today's episode is the firstepisode of a four-part series on
(00:45):
stigma, specifically the stigmathat people with addiction and
mental health face and how itaffects them, and I have to give
two shout-outs before we start.
This episode is done incollaboration with Central Coast
Overdose Prevention, also knownas CCODP, which is a nonprofit
I helped found here on thecentral coast of California
(01:08):
focused on advocating foraddiction treatment, and this
podcast was made possible byCalifornia Overdose Prevention
Network Accelerator funding fromthe Public Health Institute's
Center for Health Leadership andImpact.
As I mentioned, this episode isthe first of a four-part series
on stigma.
(01:28):
We're going to release oneepisode a week for the next four
weeks.
This is an episode with Anna.
Sometimes she goes by Anna.
She actually works with me atCentral Coast Overdose
Prevention and she's livedthrough addiction and now she's
on the other side helping peoplewith addiction get sober, and
(01:49):
in this episode she shares herlived experience with addiction,
including how people treatedher, and we also discuss how she
treats people now that she ison the other side working a peer
support specialist and isfinishing up her training to be
a drug and alcohol counselor.
She shared such a powerfulstory.
(02:09):
Here we go.
All right, good afternoon.
Why don't we start by havingyou tell us who you are and what
you do?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, hey, good afternoon.
My name is Anna Alamo.
I currently am a peer supportspecialist with a nonprofit,
Centra Post-Overdose Preventionand I just graduated college, so
it's a pretty greataccomplishment for me.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Congratulations.
Where'd you graduate fromcollege?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Hartnell College local community here in Salinas.
And what's your degree in?
It's a mouthful, but it'sAssociates in Arts and Addiction
Studies, majoring in Alcoholand Drugs.
What do you plan to do withthat?
I was planning on just being asubstance abuse counselor and
that was pretty much my end goaluntil I started working at this
(02:55):
job, and now I feel like I cando a lot more with my degree and
I think I want to go on tomaybe trying to do some sort of
social work, Got it so and I'mgoing go on to maybe trying to
do some sort of social work.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Got it so and I'm going to try to be funny here.
Sometimes you're Anna,sometimes you're Anna.
What mood are you in today?
Are you in an Anna mood or anAnna mood?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I think, because Sunday I'm going with Anna, all
right.
So, anna, remind me where yougrew up.
I grew up in Salinas,california, born and raised here
.
I feel like I had a differentchildhood than most people
because there's like the eastside of Salinas that's where I
grew up in, and then we moved tothe south side of Salinas by
(03:37):
Salinas High School and it was adifferent environment compared
to the east side where I waspreviously.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
So you and I have both been born and raised in
Monterey County.
I don't know Salinas that well.
What's the difference betweenthe east side and the south side
?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
The east side is like , well, there's a lot of gangs
it's mostly like Latinos thatare around there too.
So the house and apartmentswhere we're particularly around
is called like Elkington Street.
Okay, and growing up there wasa lot of gangs around there.
So I went from going there tothe Southside by Salinas High,
where forgive my language butthere's a lot of white people
(04:17):
that were there, that werearound me and some of our
neighbors, and it was just areally different type of vibe.
It was like five women movedover there, four or five, and I
was like, oh, this is different.
It was a weird adjustmentbecause I was so used to seeing
Latinos, only Latinos, and thenI went to see different cultures
(04:38):
.
Like I had a friend who I guessit was a religion because she
was Jewish.
There was another friend thatwas African-American and a
couple of Latinos and a coupleof other white kids, so we were
a mix.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
And today we're going to be talking about stigma.
You've obviously been throughsome challenges in your life.
When did things start gettingdifficult for you?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I hate to be that it all started when I was five
thing, but it did start when Iwas around five.
I had a traumatic event happento me when I was five years old
and I'm okay with sharing this.
I was raped by the age of fourand so my behavior was totally
different than another four yearold or five year old.
So I feel like I was alwaysbeing treated as like walking on
(05:23):
eggshells.
Not everyone knew what happened.
My mom did, and they wouldtreat me like the black duckling
.
There was moments where theywould just expect me like oh,
anna's the middle child, annadon't pay attention to her when
she talks Like very dismissiveof me.
And I feel like once I startedschool, I started having that
same behavior, where I noticedthat some of the teachers were a
(05:45):
little dismissive of when Ispoke, and I feel like it was
because I tried to over talksometimes.
Then I started learning Englishreally good and I remember the
first time I was like firstgrade when someone told me wow,
your English is really good foryour, your Mexican, is that what
you are?
And I'm like I think so.
I didn't know what a Mexicanwas when I was a six-year-old or
(06:07):
seven-year-old.
Whatever age, you are at firstgrade, so I think that's when it
first started, when people weretelling me that I was really
well at speaking English.
Then, through my elementarystage, I was bullied because I
was darker than everyone.
So I would get pushed aroundand they would make fun of me
(06:28):
because I had the gold braceletsand gold earrings and they're
like, why are you wearing that?
Like why do you do that?
And so they would push me downand steal my things and yeah, I
was just messed up to have thatbecause I had Asians and
African-Americans and HawaiianFilipinos and white kids that
would do this to me and I feltreally left out.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
So just to make sure I understand, something
challenging happened to you inyour life at about age four or
five, but independent of that,you were bullied and picked on
in school.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yes, I always felt like an outcast.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
I guess you could say Is it because you moved to the
South side of Salinas and it wasa different group and you just
always felt out?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, I would say so.
I felt like I was different.
Not everyone spoke Spanish,only speak Spanish at home and
then go to English at school,and then that transition of
having to not speak English athome.
It just felt like it was just adifficult way to combine it all
.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
And you've obviously shared that some difficult
things have happened to you.
When did you start to go thewrong direction in your life?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
It was the summer of sixth grade going to seventh
grade.
There was like summer schooland my mom had signed me up
because she just wanted me toget out of the house and
somebody was like, hey, you wantto smoke weed?
And I was like weed, what'sweed?
I've never heard about thatbefore.
They're like just try, like itwill get you high.
And I remember we were like inan abandoned house somewhere
(08:01):
behind a park and we smoked outof a highlighter and I was like,
oh, okay, and I definitely feltlike an immediate head change.
Then.
I kind of like that alternativereality.
After that, it's like I wentfrom being bullied in elementary
school to now going into middleschool and there was more
(08:22):
Latinos there and I felt alittle bit better having more
Latinos there and everybody wassmoking weed.
So I was like, oh, I want tosmoke weed, I want to hang out
with you guys.
So, yeah, I started hanging outwith people and my sister was
involved with her own people too, and I think that's when
everything started justhappening.
Afterwards, instead of me beingbullied, I started fighting
(08:43):
back.
I fought whoever.
Whoever wanted to fight me, Iwould fight back.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
What do you think was the change in you from going
from being a victim to fightingback?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I feel like it was the anger I had inside that I
never really dealt with.
So being able to smoke weed fora little bit free, and it made
me want to just, I guess, shutpeople up and instead of saying,
oh, anna's dumb, anna's a slut,anna's this, it was like Anna
(09:18):
just got a fart in the bathroom,or Anna just did that, and I'd
rather have that record than tohave somebody telling me that
I'm dumb, or I'm a slut, so youwere getting some street cred.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Yeah, were you getting judged on your behavior
from other people in your life?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, my family, the educators, the teacher, the
faculty staff, they all knew whoI was and I was getting
suspended all the time.
I didn't even do my promotionin eighth grade because I was
just always fighting somebody.
I was always just so mad.
And then whenever somebody waslike, hey, I have some weed, I'm
like cool, let's go smoke.
(09:56):
Or let's you know, let's go dothis.
I don't want to be home.
And my parents were in themiddle of a divorce.
So in eighth grade my dad heended up going to prison.
Then my mom had to file forbankruptcy and there was just a
lot going on.
I didn't know how to handle.
I wanted to be known forfighting people.
So I felt like the teacherswere just like oh, Anna's at it
(10:17):
again, Anna's in this, again,Anna's in trouble again, Call
her mom.
And then my mom would tell metoo if you're ever going to get
in a fight, make sure you beatthe other person up.
If not, I'm going to beat youup if you didn't do it right.
I think that once I felt likesomebody challenged me, I had to
end it, so that way my momwouldn't get mad at me because I
didn't finish somethingcorrectly how she wanted me to.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, so you've obviously shared that you got
started with cannabis.
Where did your substance useand life go after that?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
High school Some of my friends were doing the fizz
pills, the ecstasy and a fewother pills that they had, and I
remember I tried one pill onceand I really liked the way it
made me feel.
But all of my friends around mewere like, oh, anna, we're not
going to let you do that again.
You were so messed up, you wereon the floor and you couldn't
do this, you couldn't do thatand I was like, okay, sure, if
(11:09):
you said not to, I won't do it.
But then as I continued to godown like the path of fighting,
ditching school, I starteddrinking.
I was ditching school, havingkickbacks at my house and my
sister would bring likegangsters over and they all had
like different types of drugs.
I was always scared of cocaineand anything heavier than weed
or a pill.
(11:30):
But then at 17, 18, I starteddating this older guy and he
started doing these like bluepills.
They were in little baggies andI didn't know what they were
and he was like they're just,it's nothing crazy, it's just
like a perk, and I'm like Idon't know what a perk is.
So I tried it a couple of times, but he gave them to me and
(11:51):
then I started sneaking them andthen I had gotten pregnant and
I was like, oh, I don't want todo this anymore, I think I'm
going to stop here, I'll justsmoke weed.
I'll just do that instead.
So I maybe smoked weed for aweek after I found out I was
pregnant.
Then I stopped.
I ended up having a miscarriageand not long after that I ended
(12:13):
up ending things with this guybecause he started doing heavier
things than pills.
He was doing heroin and smokinglittle.
I think they were like thesublingual films, some sort of
films, that he was smoking themoff the foil and I was like like
that's crazy.
And he was smoking meth.
I was like I'm scared of that,I don't want to do that.
So I left him then.
That was probably around age 19, 20.
(12:35):
And then, at 20 years old, thenI started doing Norcos and then
21 Xanax.
Yeah, I was doing pills from 20to 25 years old.
It was to a point that I don'tremember three years of my life
because I was so high on Xanaxall the time.
I'd take a Norco in the morning, a Xanax in midday, then at
(12:58):
night take a Norco and a Xanaxand hit the bong and take a
drink, and it was just yeah, itwas just pretty bad.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Did you seek any help at that time?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
No, because I didn't think I had a problem.
And it went on and I had someof my like my sister would tell
me like hey, dude, are you okay?
You seem like something's off.
Like maybe you should leavethis guy.
He has a bad influence on you.
He wasn't making me do anything, I was the one doing it, but
because this guy came into mylife, they thought that he was
(13:33):
influencing all this behavior.
So for years I did it until itnumbed everything that I wanted
to let go of.
And throughout this time, myfamily, just I was the secret.
They didn't talk much about,but they knew that I was doing
something.
They know I always smelt like.
And then age 25 is when thingsgot real.
How so.
(13:55):
So we were.
I hope this is okay to share.
But we were selling pills.
They were laser fentanyl andsomebody ended up overdosing and
dying off of it.
Once the DA got involved andthey were right in front of my
face with a gun, I was like, ohmy God, something is going on.
What the hell?
That's when I was forced totake a look at my life to see
(14:17):
what am I doing?
I've gotten suspended.
I was ditching school, I washanging out in the back crowd
all throughout my whole life.
I never thought about what elseI was going to do with my life.
And that's when I realizedeither I stopped doing what I'm
doing or I'm going to go to jail, or I'm going to die.
Those are the two options.
There's nothing else.
There's no in between.
(14:38):
So after we went to court, Iwent to jail for like maybe two
weeks, and jail for me.
I was like I have never come inhere again.
This was it.
This was my sign.
God, thank you so much.
I will never come back here.
And that was it for me.
I was like I'm not built forthis, not built for this
lifestyle.
Yeah, I made a lot of baddecisions in my life, but I
don't want to end up here, Idon't want to go to prison, I
(15:00):
don't want to be around thesepeople.
And then my mom and me realizedthat I was those people.
That's when I got in trouble.
I was forced to get clean.
And then I wasn't just a girlwho was in school, who was a
fifth year senior.
I was on record like a drugdealer, an addict.
I was getting phone calls likehey, have you ever seeked help
for drugs before?
(15:20):
And I was like I'm not gettingthese calls, I'm not even an
addict.
And then I learned that there'sdifferent severities of
addiction.
There's a low, moderate andsevere.
And I was on the lower sidecompared to most of the people
that I've met.
I was on the lower side andeven to this day, some people
tell me like, oh, like, youweren't really an addict, you
did the bare minimum.
(15:42):
And I was like don't discreditmy addict.
I was.
I know I was somewhere on thatbar.
So, yeah, after I got justiceinvolved, my probation officer
was great.
She kept me on check and shetold me like if you ever violate
, I'm gonna violate you.
You're going to go to jail.
And that was it.
I was like I don't want to goto jail.
No, so I stopped with that.
(16:03):
And March 2020 was when Ichanged my life.
I stopped doing drugs.
I was like I don't want to dothis anymore.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
So with stigma, we talk about different types of
stigma, and one of the types ofstigma is self-stigma, where we
judge ourselves for what we do.
When you look back on this timeof your life, were you able to
be honest with yourself?
Were you harsh with yourself?
What was that like?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I was pretty harsh on myself.
It's like I could have donebetter.
I should have done better.
I shouldn't have hung out withthis crowd, and it was just a
lot of shoulda, woulda, couldas.
Then I started seeking therapyas an adult, and that's when I
realized that I started feelingsorry for myself.
After, yeah, it was a differenttime for me to think of myself
like oh, I was a party girl.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
But it wasn't just party, because I wanted to party
all the time.
How did your family treat you?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
during this time.
They didn't trust me.
My sister didn't really want mynephew around me.
My nephew now he's 17.
My youngest nephew he's goingto be eight next week and my
youngest has autism, and so shewas like I can't have you around
my kids like that, and my momtoo.
She didn't really trust me.
She's like I can't have you athome nodding off all the time
(17:20):
you and your boyfriend arearguing and I can't.
It's not okay, I'm not okaywith it.
So they were very disapprovingand they were very open about it
.
But I didn't see it that way.
I was just like they don't careabout me.
They were just treating me likecrap, but they just were
putting up boundaries forthemselves.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
How did the legal system treat you?
Like a criminal.
I mean, with all due respect,you were Exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I mean, were they?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
more we need to get Anna some help because she's got
addiction, or was it more weneed to lock Anna up?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
It was more like we need to lock Anna up.
It was more like we need tolock Anna up.
I felt like during this time Inever got an option of going to
a rehab or getting any sort ofhelp with like substances.
It just made me feel like moreof a criminal because of it.
They were just like she's solddrugs, someone died and that's
it.
Like they didn't ask me much,they were like what's your drug
use?
And then once I said what mydrug use was, I told them I was
honest.
They still didn't think to getme any help.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
When did you actually start getting some help?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
During probation.
It was the forced NA meetings,aa meetings, and I felt like I
didn't really resonate much withAA.
But NA felt like that was mypeople and mostly listening to
everybody else, because I wasalways too nervous to say
anything, because I felt likeless of an addict, I guess you
(18:45):
could say, in these groups.
So I just wanted to listen toother people's stories.
Throughout the time listening Ifelt, oh, oh, I felt that or I
can relate to that, oh, okay.
And then there was this one timewhere one guy from community
health services was running thegroup through Zoom, because of
course it was during COVID andso that was completely different
(19:06):
.
But everybody started attackinghim because he had no
experience, no lived experience.
Nobody cared what he had to say.
As he was trying to run thegroup.
He was like according to thebooks, it says that this or it
says that that.
And somebody went off on him andwas like how are you going to
know what I feel?
Like?
Has he never been through it?
How am I supposed to listen toyou?
That was one of my firstthoughts about being a substance
(19:28):
abuse counselor.
That sounds kind of like peopleare going to be like okay, so
you know what I mean when I tellyou that I've had withdrawals
or that I felt some type of way,or you have to sell to make
sure you still got more of yourdrugs, so that way I can keep my
addiction going.
So yeah, I feel like throughprobation I started getting the
help.
It was forced and I feel likemaybe that's what I needed.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
So now you're on the other side and you are a drug
and alcohol counselor.
What is it like on the otherside?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
I got to tell you it's amazing to go into the jail
and walk out with my ownclothes and the fact of getting
treated friendlier with thesheriffs.
The deputies compared to me.
If I was locked up, they wouldbe like with the sheriffs the
deputies Compared to me.
If I was locked up, they wouldbe like, hurry up and I would be
(20:20):
treated less humane.
So it just feels good to be onthe other side and just not have
to have fear of the cop.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
So you obviously were judged for what you did.
How do you take that experienceof being judged and how do you
integrate that into your workwhen you take care of people who
need help going forward?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
I think I try to be more compassionate, let them
know that, without oversharingtoo much, until it's the right
time, I guess, to share my story.
But I let them know, trust me,I know, I know I've been there
and if I could do it, you coulddo it too.
I didn't know I was going to bethis and now that I'm here I'm
like dude.
It's hard, trust me, it's hard,but going through it just makes
(21:01):
you feel so much better.
I've really connected with alot of the teenage girls lately
and it's just amazing to bethere for them, because I never
really had that for myselfgrowing up, especially through
that phase.
So it feels nice to be likedude.
I was in your shoes, I wasditching school Like I was doing
(21:22):
.
This Girl, I know, come on,tell me what you need and I will
figure it out for you.
It feels good to have that.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Do you use certain phrases or avoid certain terms?
Do you lead with a hug?
How do you make people feelwelcomed and respected when you
start working with them?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I think it's listening, sharing a little bit,
having a conversation with themnot talking at them, but
talking to them and then, onceit comes to the end, I ask can I
give you a hug?
And if they say yes, I'll givethem a hug and they're like
thank you.
I really needed to hear that.
Your story sounds similar to me, or it sounds like you really
(22:04):
know what I've been through andyou made me feel seen, and I
think that's my goal, just tomake people feel seen, because
it's hard when you're out hereand you're in it, you just feel
invisible and you're just goingthrough a difficult time.
You're fighting yourself andit's true what they say, that
you are your worst enemy.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
So, now that you're learning how to give back and
take care of people in their ownaddiction, what are you
surprised to have learned?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Not taking it personal If someone relapses.
I think that's what I'msurprised to learn, because I
going into this, I was like, oh,not everyone's going to relapse
, they'll be fine, I'm going tochange them.
And then come to find outsomeone left relapse and I'm
just like, oh shoot, I've beentalking to this person and I've
(22:54):
been trying my best to be therefor them, but it's not my fault.
All I can do is try my best.
So that's the most surprisingthing for me is not taking it
personal when it comes to mypatient making a mistake.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
So the million dollar question in addiction medicine
is do you hold peopleaccountable or do you
accommodate them when they needhelp?
And no one on planet earthknows the answer to this
question.
Right, if you push people toohard to hold them accountable,
it can be too hard and they canrelapse under the pressure.
And if you accommodate them,you can sometimes accommodate
(23:30):
them too much and by allowingthem too much wiggle room, it
allows them to not do the hardwork that is needed to get sober
and stay sober.
So, given your lived experienceboth what you've been through
and now what you doprofessionally how do you find
that balance around holdingpeople accountable versus
helping them when they need it?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
A phrase that I use because I feel like I let people
know like I'm gonna keep itreal with you, you know from the
beginning is you can't bullshita bullshitter dude, it's all
right that you messed up, it'sokay, we're human, but what can
we do different?
So being able to Let them knowthat they messed up, and friends
, so being able to let them knowthat they messed up, and still
(24:10):
trying to see do you still wantthis?
Because if you do, I couldstill help you.
Trying a little bit of both, Ifeel is the right answer,
because if someone would havetold me, like part of my
addiction, oh, you messed up,and that's it, you messed up, I
think I would have probablycried and probably wanted to go
back to take a pill.
I don't want to feel that.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
How do you handle it when someone's not ready or they
don't want help?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Let them know that I'm here and here's my card.
Or we come around here everyTuesday, Thursday, Friday.
If you're ever ready, I'm here.
If you see me or my coworkersor that truck with the green
sticker, you know where to findus.
We're here.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
You know, what's so amazing about the work that we
do in addiction is for peoplewith addiction.
It's a lot of shame, it's a lotof stigma.
It's a lot of not wanting peopleto know what we're doing, and
it's dark and it's it doesn'tfeel good.
(25:09):
It's to have to be honest aboutwhat we're doing just feels
horrible.
And what's absolutely amazingis when people with addiction
get treatment and then theystart to turn their lives around
to where they are able to helpothers with addiction.
All of that shame, all of thosestories, all of those
experiences now become an asset,and it's really cool because
(25:33):
what used to be something younever wanted anyone to find out
about is now something that youcan share.
When someone's struggling tosay I know how you feel, I was
there too.
That's one of the things thatgets me up out of bed every
morning is knowing that whenpeople start doing better, their
deepest, darkest secrets becometheir superpowers.
And I'm just curious how thatfeels to you, given that you've
(25:55):
been through a lot and nowyou're on the other side helping
people that need it the way youused to need it.
How does that feel to you?
Speaker 2 (26:04):
It feels like a superpower, like how you said it
.
It's super crazy that when Ifirst started this job, I was
like, oh my God, I have to sharewhat happened to me.
Oh my God, I can't believe that.
And then realizing I don't haveto share it unless I feel like
it's the right time to or theright person I'm talking to,
because not everybody needs tohear my story, but there's some
(26:24):
people that do, and when thosepeople hear it, they're like, oh
my God, anna, yes, yes, that'sit, and that feels.
Oh my God.
That makes me feel high.
It gives me that warm, fuzzyfeeling in the inside and I just
feel amazing because my storyis helping somebody.
Some of the most traumaticevents of my life are the reason
(26:48):
why somebody feels connected tome and why they feel like they
can trust me.
I think that's amazing initself and, yeah, I feel like,
honestly, I feel like cryingabout it.
I just got goosebumps.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, so tell me what's next for you.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
What's next is?
I want to do this for a littlelonger and I want to go to CSUMB
, pursue my bachelor's inpsychology and see where life
takes me.
The fact that I'm here rightnow means that there's so many
doors that I could open.
There's so many opportunitieswith my life.
I graduated college.
That's so hard.
(27:25):
That's so hard for somebodywho's been through what I've
been through and sometimes Ithink about it and I should be
worse than what I am now and thefact that I've met you and Dr
Close and CCODP and justeveryone in my life, it just
makes me feel like I have anamazing team to work with.
(27:46):
I don't know what's next, but Iknow it's something great.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Has your family started to trust you again?
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yes, oh, my God, yeah , and it feels so good to be
like the level-headed one.
My mom hey, she asked me for myopinions.
My older sister sometimes seeksmy advice and my little sister
is just we're working ourrelationship.
My little brother, too, like Ithink for a while he would tell
(28:13):
me, like you, being the badinfluence in my life made me
want to be a good influence toothers and now he wants to be a
cop.
And it's just so amazing tohave that support for my family
that I felt like I've alwayswanted and I always yearned.
And now that I'm sober I havegoals and I feel so supported in
any way.
And I know that whatever Iwanted to do with my life, my
(28:35):
mom would be like if that's whatyou want to do, then that's
what you want to do, nina.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
How far into your recovery did your family start
to trust you again?
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Last year it felt like Wow, four years.
Yeah, my family's stubborn, so Ifelt like they were trying, but
they were still unsure becauseas much as I tried to let go of
some of my old friends, some ofthem would still come around and
so they'd be like Anna, whatare you doing?
And then I just got reallyfocused into school and
(29:09):
finishing and doing better.
I stopped talking about what Iwas going to do and I just
started doing it and my mom toldme to like this was like
probably the first year that Iwas sober and she was like you
always talk about what you'regoing to do, but you never do it
.
Yeah, it took a while, but Ifeel like I finally gained all
(29:30):
of their trust and it feels goodthat just to have open
conversations and be vulnerablearound one another, it was great
.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Gosh, being vulnerable that is oh, that is
such a big part of what we do.
I was on a podcast beinginterviewed about addiction and
they asked me what's the biggestpredictor that someone will get
sober and stay sober?
And I said a willingness tofeel discomfort and be
vulnerable.
How did you actually get towhere you could be vulnerable?
Therapy Good answer Apparently,you have a good therapist.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Oh, she's amazing.
Last year I hit a really lowpoint in my depression and I was
a little worried about myself.
Hartnell College has greatcounselors and so I seek support
and I got linked up with thetrauma informed care therapist
who does EMDR, and so like I'vejust become okay with some of
(30:25):
the things that have happened tome and I've realized that the
things that have happened to meand I've realized that the
things that have happened do notdefine who I am.
They're just a part of my story.
I cried about it for a while,but now it just feels like a
surreal moment.
It feels like the sun isshining and I can see better
things ahead of me.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
So we talked about stigma, particularly self-stigma
, have you forgiven yourself forwhat you've been through and
what you did.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
That's a hard one, because I feel like forgiveness
isn't something that justhappens once.
You have to forgive yourselfover and over again, sometimes
until it's less.
My therapist actually taught methat one she goes.
It's going to be hard for youto just do it one time, but you
might have to do it in a monthor so.
Have be like okay, you knowwhat.
I already dealt with this.
I'm okay, I forgive myself.
(31:14):
I can't beat myself up over itso much.
I have to just do better.
Ultimately, I try to remindmyself sometimes that somebody
died because the things that Iwas doing and that's tough.
Yeah, I don't want someone elseto die, and if I would have
kept doing what me and theperson I was dating is doing,
like it, just more people couldhave died, it could have been
(31:36):
worse, and just to have that onme makes me think that like.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
I have to do better.
How do you handle it when oneof your clients is in a similar
situation, where they're reallystruggling with the self-stigma?
Speaker 2 (31:51):
It's a hard question.
I don't really have a goodanswer for that, because I feel
like I just listen.
I listen to them and if I don'thave anything motivating to say
, I'm just like I hear you, Isee you.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
If it was a hard question, it means it was a good
question.
You If it was a hard question,it means it was a good question.
It was a great question.
Yeah, yeah, I'm with you rightthere that just being a safe
person in their life and beingable to listen is so important.
And our patients do all sortsof things.
(32:25):
They relapse, they deal toothers of things.
They relapse, they deal toothers, they judge themselves,
they struggle, they overdose.
And what's amazing is thatthey're really nice people.
I mean, I have some really,really wonderful human beings
that are under my care that doreally bad things, and I try to
see the good in them and focuson the good parts of them and
(32:47):
just be there to be safe andsupportive.
And I like what you said whenyou said I just listen, because
that sometimes that's the bestthing we can do.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, and I love that you said that some people do
bad things but you try to lookthe good in them, because that's
what I try to do too.
I did a few mistakes in my lifeand if somebody only saw me
because of those mistakes that Idid did a few mistakes in my
life and if somebody only saw mebecause of those mistakes that
I did, I wouldn't be where I'mat right now and just giving
somebody that second chance andhearing them out.
(33:16):
You never know how thatactually helps somebody.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
I got to say, anna, this was great.
I appreciate your vulnerabilitywith me and today and sharing
and speaking, and I alsoappreciate the incredible lived
experience that you have to beable to help our clients.
And I also appreciate theincredible lived experience that
you have to be able to help ourclients, and you're right
having been where they have beenand where they are gives you a
superpower to be able to relateto them and encourage them and
(33:39):
engage them.
So thank you for all theincredible work that you do and
for sharing your story with me.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate this opportunity.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
To those healthcare providers out there treating
patients with addiction you'redoing life-saving work and thank
you for what you do Foreveryone else tuning in.
Thank you for taking the timeto learn about addiction.
It's a fight we cannot winwithout awareness and action.
There's still so much we can doto improve how addiction is
treated.
Together, we can make it happen.
(34:12):
Thanks for listening andremember treating addiction
saves lives.
Bye.
Welcome to the Addiction Medicine Made Easy
Podcast.
Hey there, I'm Dr Casey Grover,an addiction medicine doctor
based on California's CentralCoast.
(00:22):
For 14 years I worked in theemergency department seeing
countless patients strugglingwith addiction.
Now I'm on the other side ofthe fight, helping people
rebuild their lives when drugsand alcohol take control.
Thanks for tuning in.
Let's get started.
Today's episode is the firstepisode of a four-part series on
(00:45):
stigma, specifically the stigmathat people with addiction and
mental health face and how itaffects them, and I have to give
two shout-outs before we start.
This episode is done incollaboration with Central Coast
Overdose Prevention, also knownas CCODP, which is a nonprofit
I helped found here on thecentral coast of California
(01:08):
focused on advocating foraddiction treatment, and this
podcast was made possible byCalifornia Overdose Prevention
Network Accelerator funding fromthe Public Health Institute's
Center for Health Leadership andImpact.
As I mentioned, this episode isthe first of a four-part series
on stigma.
(01:28):
We're going to release oneepisode a week for the next four
weeks.
This is an episode with Anna.
Sometimes she goes by Anna.
She actually works with me atCentral Coast Overdose
Prevention and she's livedthrough addiction and now she's
on the other side helping peoplewith addiction get sober, and
(01:49):
in this episode she shares herlived experience with addiction,
including how people treatedher, and we also discuss how she
treats people now that she ison the other side working a peer
support specialist and isfinishing up her training to be
a drug and alcohol counselor.
She shared such a powerfulstory.
(02:09):
Here we go.
All right, good afternoon.
Why don't we start by havingyou tell us who you are and what
you do?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, hey, good afternoon.
My name is Anna Alamo.
I currently am a peer supportspecialist with a nonprofit,
Centra Post-Overdose Preventionand I just graduated college, so
it's a pretty greataccomplishment for me.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Congratulations.
Where'd you graduate fromcollege?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Hartnell College local community here in Salinas.
And what's your degree in?
It's a mouthful, but it'sAssociates in Arts and Addiction
Studies, majoring in Alcoholand Drugs.
What do you plan to do withthat?
I was planning on just being asubstance abuse counselor and
that was pretty much my end goaluntil I started working at this
(02:55):
job, and now I feel like I cando a lot more with my degree and
I think I want to go on tomaybe trying to do some sort of
social work, Got it so and I'mgoing go on to maybe trying to
do some sort of social work.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Got it so and I'm going to try to be funny here.
Sometimes you're Anna,sometimes you're Anna.
What mood are you in today?
Are you in an Anna mood or anAnna mood?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I think, because Sunday I'm going with Anna, all
right.
So, anna, remind me where yougrew up.
I grew up in Salinas,california, born and raised here
.
I feel like I had a differentchildhood than most people
because there's like the eastside of Salinas that's where I
grew up in, and then we moved tothe south side of Salinas by
(03:37):
Salinas High School and it was adifferent environment compared
to the east side where I waspreviously.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
So you and I have both been born and raised in
Monterey County.
I don't know Salinas that well.
What's the difference betweenthe east side and the south side
?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
The east side is like , well, there's a lot of gangs
it's mostly like Latinos thatare around there too.
So the house and apartmentswhere we're particularly around
is called like Elkington Street.
Okay, and growing up there wasa lot of gangs around there.
So I went from going there tothe Southside by Salinas High,
where forgive my language butthere's a lot of white people
(04:17):
that were there, that werearound me and some of our
neighbors, and it was just areally different type of vibe.
It was like five women movedover there, four or five, and I
was like, oh, this is different.
It was a weird adjustmentbecause I was so used to seeing
Latinos, only Latinos, and thenI went to see different cultures
(04:38):
.
Like I had a friend who I guessit was a religion because she
was Jewish.
There was another friend thatwas African-American and a
couple of Latinos and a coupleof other white kids, so we were
a mix.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
And today we're going to be talking about stigma.
You've obviously been throughsome challenges in your life.
When did things start gettingdifficult for you?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I hate to be that it all started when I was five
thing, but it did start when Iwas around five.
I had a traumatic event happento me when I was five years old
and I'm okay with sharing this.
I was raped by the age of fourand so my behavior was totally
different than another four yearold or five year old.
So I feel like I was alwaysbeing treated as like walking on
(05:23):
eggshells.
Not everyone knew what happened.
My mom did, and they wouldtreat me like the black duckling
.
There was moments where theywould just expect me like oh,
anna's the middle child, annadon't pay attention to her when
she talks Like very dismissiveof me.
And I feel like once I startedschool, I started having that
same behavior, where I noticedthat some of the teachers were a
(05:45):
little dismissive of when Ispoke, and I feel like it was
because I tried to over talksometimes.
Then I started learning Englishreally good and I remember the
first time I was like firstgrade when someone told me wow,
your English is really good foryour, your Mexican, is that what
you are?
And I'm like I think so.
I didn't know what a Mexicanwas when I was a six-year-old or
(06:07):
seven-year-old.
Whatever age, you are at firstgrade, so I think that's when it
first started, when people weretelling me that I was really
well at speaking English.
Then, through my elementarystage, I was bullied because I
was darker than everyone.
So I would get pushed aroundand they would make fun of me
(06:28):
because I had the gold braceletsand gold earrings and they're
like, why are you wearing that?
Like why do you do that?
And so they would push me downand steal my things and yeah, I
was just messed up to have thatbecause I had Asians and
African-Americans and HawaiianFilipinos and white kids that
would do this to me and I feltreally left out.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
So just to make sure I understand, something
challenging happened to you inyour life at about age four or
five, but independent of that,you were bullied and picked on
in school.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yes, I always felt like an outcast.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
I guess you could say Is it because you moved to the
South side of Salinas and it wasa different group and you just
always felt out?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, I would say so.
I felt like I was different.
Not everyone spoke Spanish,only speak Spanish at home and
then go to English at school,and then that transition of
having to not speak English athome.
It just felt like it was just adifficult way to combine it all
.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
And you've obviously shared that some difficult
things have happened to you.
When did you start to go thewrong direction in your life?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
It was the summer of sixth grade going to seventh
grade.
There was like summer schooland my mom had signed me up
because she just wanted me toget out of the house and
somebody was like, hey, you wantto smoke weed?
And I was like weed, what'sweed?
I've never heard about thatbefore.
They're like just try, like itwill get you high.
And I remember we were like inan abandoned house somewhere
(08:01):
behind a park and we smoked outof a highlighter and I was like,
oh, okay, and I definitely feltlike an immediate head change.
Then.
I kind of like that alternativereality.
After that, it's like I wentfrom being bullied in elementary
school to now going into middleschool and there was more
(08:22):
Latinos there and I felt alittle bit better having more
Latinos there and everybody wassmoking weed.
So I was like, oh, I want tosmoke weed, I want to hang out
with you guys.
So, yeah, I started hanging outwith people and my sister was
involved with her own people too, and I think that's when
everything started justhappening.
Afterwards, instead of me beingbullied, I started fighting
(08:43):
back.
I fought whoever.
Whoever wanted to fight me, Iwould fight back.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
What do you think was the change in you from going
from being a victim to fightingback?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I feel like it was the anger I had inside that I
never really dealt with.
So being able to smoke weed fora little bit free, and it made
me want to just, I guess, shutpeople up and instead of saying,
oh, anna's dumb, anna's a slut,anna's this, it was like Anna
(09:18):
just got a fart in the bathroom,or Anna just did that, and I'd
rather have that record than tohave somebody telling me that
I'm dumb, or I'm a slut, so youwere getting some street cred.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Yeah, were you getting judged on your behavior
from other people in your life?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, my family, the educators, the teacher, the
faculty staff, they all knew whoI was and I was getting
suspended all the time.
I didn't even do my promotionin eighth grade because I was
just always fighting somebody.
I was always just so mad.
And then whenever somebody waslike, hey, I have some weed, I'm
like cool, let's go smoke.
(09:56):
Or let's you know, let's go dothis.
I don't want to be home.
And my parents were in themiddle of a divorce.
So in eighth grade my dad heended up going to prison.
Then my mom had to file forbankruptcy and there was just a
lot going on.
I didn't know how to handle.
I wanted to be known forfighting people.
So I felt like the teacherswere just like oh, Anna's at it
(10:17):
again, Anna's in this, again,Anna's in trouble again, Call
her mom.
And then my mom would tell metoo if you're ever going to get
in a fight, make sure you beatthe other person up.
If not, I'm going to beat youup if you didn't do it right.
I think that once I felt likesomebody challenged me, I had to
end it, so that way my momwouldn't get mad at me because I
didn't finish somethingcorrectly how she wanted me to.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, so you've obviously shared that you got
started with cannabis.
Where did your substance useand life go after that?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
High school Some of my friends were doing the fizz
pills, the ecstasy and a fewother pills that they had, and I
remember I tried one pill onceand I really liked the way it
made me feel.
But all of my friends around mewere like, oh, anna, we're not
going to let you do that again.
You were so messed up, you wereon the floor and you couldn't
do this, you couldn't do thatand I was like, okay, sure, if
(11:09):
you said not to, I won't do it.
But then as I continued to godown like the path of fighting,
ditching school, I starteddrinking.
I was ditching school, havingkickbacks at my house and my
sister would bring likegangsters over and they all had
like different types of drugs.
I was always scared of cocaineand anything heavier than weed
or a pill.
(11:30):
But then at 17, 18, I starteddating this older guy and he
started doing these like bluepills.
They were in little baggies andI didn't know what they were
and he was like they're just,it's nothing crazy, it's just
like a perk, and I'm like Idon't know what a perk is.
So I tried it a couple of times, but he gave them to me and
(11:51):
then I started sneaking them andthen I had gotten pregnant and
I was like, oh, I don't want todo this anymore, I think I'm
going to stop here, I'll justsmoke weed.
I'll just do that instead.
So I maybe smoked weed for aweek after I found out I was
pregnant.
Then I stopped.
I ended up having a miscarriageand not long after that I ended
(12:13):
up ending things with this guybecause he started doing heavier
things than pills.
He was doing heroin and smokinglittle.
I think they were like thesublingual films, some sort of
films, that he was smoking themoff the foil and I was like like
that's crazy.
And he was smoking meth.
I was like I'm scared of that,I don't want to do that.
So I left him then.
That was probably around age 19, 20.
(12:35):
And then, at 20 years old, thenI started doing Norcos and then
21 Xanax.
Yeah, I was doing pills from 20to 25 years old.
It was to a point that I don'tremember three years of my life
because I was so high on Xanaxall the time.
I'd take a Norco in the morning, a Xanax in midday, then at
(12:58):
night take a Norco and a Xanaxand hit the bong and take a
drink, and it was just yeah, itwas just pretty bad.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Did you seek any help at that time?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
No, because I didn't think I had a problem.
And it went on and I had someof my like my sister would tell
me like hey, dude, are you okay?
You seem like something's off.
Like maybe you should leavethis guy.
He has a bad influence on you.
He wasn't making me do anything, I was the one doing it, but
because this guy came into mylife, they thought that he was
(13:33):
influencing all this behavior.
So for years I did it until itnumbed everything that I wanted
to let go of.
And throughout this time, myfamily, just I was the secret.
They didn't talk much about,but they knew that I was doing
something.
They know I always smelt like.
And then age 25 is when thingsgot real.
How so.
(13:55):
So we were.
I hope this is okay to share.
But we were selling pills.
They were laser fentanyl andsomebody ended up overdosing and
dying off of it.
Once the DA got involved andthey were right in front of my
face with a gun, I was like, ohmy God, something is going on.
What the hell?
That's when I was forced totake a look at my life to see
(14:17):
what am I doing?
I've gotten suspended.
I was ditching school, I washanging out in the back crowd
all throughout my whole life.
I never thought about what elseI was going to do with my life.
And that's when I realizedeither I stopped doing what I'm
doing or I'm going to go to jail, or I'm going to die.
Those are the two options.
There's nothing else.
There's no in between.
(14:38):
So after we went to court, Iwent to jail for like maybe two
weeks, and jail for me.
I was like I have never come inhere again.
This was it.
This was my sign.
God, thank you so much.
I will never come back here.
And that was it for me.
I was like I'm not built forthis, not built for this
lifestyle.
Yeah, I made a lot of baddecisions in my life, but I
don't want to end up here, Idon't want to go to prison, I
(15:00):
don't want to be around thesepeople.
And then my mom and me realizedthat I was those people.
That's when I got in trouble.
I was forced to get clean.
And then I wasn't just a girlwho was in school, who was a
fifth year senior.
I was on record like a drugdealer, an addict.
I was getting phone calls likehey, have you ever seeked help
for drugs before?
(15:20):
And I was like I'm not gettingthese calls, I'm not even an
addict.
And then I learned that there'sdifferent severities of
addiction.
There's a low, moderate andsevere.
And I was on the lower sidecompared to most of the people
that I've met.
I was on the lower side andeven to this day, some people
tell me like, oh, like, youweren't really an addict, you
did the bare minimum.
(15:42):
And I was like don't discreditmy addict.
I was.
I know I was somewhere on thatbar.
So, yeah, after I got justiceinvolved, my probation officer
was great.
She kept me on check and shetold me like if you ever violate
, I'm gonna violate you.
You're going to go to jail.
And that was it.
I was like I don't want to goto jail.
No, so I stopped with that.
(16:03):
And March 2020 was when Ichanged my life.
I stopped doing drugs.
I was like I don't want to dothis anymore.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
So with stigma, we talk about different types of
stigma, and one of the types ofstigma is self-stigma, where we
judge ourselves for what we do.
When you look back on this timeof your life, were you able to
be honest with yourself?
Were you harsh with yourself?
What was that like?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I was pretty harsh on myself.
It's like I could have donebetter.
I should have done better.
I shouldn't have hung out withthis crowd, and it was just a
lot of shoulda, woulda, couldas.
Then I started seeking therapyas an adult, and that's when I
realized that I started feelingsorry for myself.
After, yeah, it was a differenttime for me to think of myself
like oh, I was a party girl.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
But it wasn't just party, because I wanted to party
all the time.
How did your family treat you?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
during this time.
They didn't trust me.
My sister didn't really want mynephew around me.
My nephew now he's 17.
My youngest nephew he's goingto be eight next week and my
youngest has autism, and so shewas like I can't have you around
my kids like that, and my momtoo.
She didn't really trust me.
She's like I can't have you athome nodding off all the time
(17:20):
you and your boyfriend arearguing and I can't.
It's not okay, I'm not okaywith it.
So they were very disapprovingand they were very open about it
.
But I didn't see it that way.
I was just like they don't careabout me.
They were just treating me likecrap, but they just were
putting up boundaries forthemselves.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
How did the legal system treat you?
Like a criminal.
I mean, with all due respect,you were Exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I mean, were they?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
more we need to get Anna some help because she's got
addiction, or was it more weneed to lock Anna up?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
It was more like we need to lock Anna up.
It was more like we need tolock Anna up.
I felt like during this time Inever got an option of going to
a rehab or getting any sort ofhelp with like substances.
It just made me feel like moreof a criminal because of it.
They were just like she's solddrugs, someone died and that's
it.
Like they didn't ask me much,they were like what's your drug
use?
And then once I said what mydrug use was, I told them I was
honest.
They still didn't think to getme any help.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
When did you actually start getting some help?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
During probation.
It was the forced NA meetings,aa meetings, and I felt like I
didn't really resonate much withAA.
But NA felt like that was mypeople and mostly listening to
everybody else, because I wasalways too nervous to say
anything, because I felt likeless of an addict, I guess you
(18:45):
could say, in these groups.
So I just wanted to listen toother people's stories.
Throughout the time listening Ifelt, oh, oh, I felt that or I
can relate to that, oh, okay.
And then there was this one timewhere one guy from community
health services was running thegroup through Zoom, because of
course it was during COVID andso that was completely different
(19:06):
.
But everybody started attackinghim because he had no
experience, no lived experience.
Nobody cared what he had to say.
As he was trying to run thegroup.
He was like according to thebooks, it says that this or it
says that that.
And somebody went off on him andwas like how are you going to
know what I feel?
Like?
Has he never been through it?
How am I supposed to listen toyou?
That was one of my firstthoughts about being a substance
(19:28):
abuse counselor.
That sounds kind of like peopleare going to be like okay, so
you know what I mean when I tellyou that I've had withdrawals
or that I felt some type of way,or you have to sell to make
sure you still got more of yourdrugs, so that way I can keep my
addiction going.
So yeah, I feel like throughprobation I started getting the
help.
It was forced and I feel likemaybe that's what I needed.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
So now you're on the other side and you are a drug
and alcohol counselor.
What is it like on the otherside?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
I got to tell you it's amazing to go into the jail
and walk out with my ownclothes and the fact of getting
treated friendlier with thesheriffs.
The deputies compared to me.
If I was locked up, they wouldbe like with the sheriffs the
deputies Compared to me.
If I was locked up, they wouldbe like, hurry up and I would be
(20:20):
treated less humane.
So it just feels good to be onthe other side and just not have
to have fear of the cop.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
So you obviously were judged for what you did.
How do you take that experienceof being judged and how do you
integrate that into your workwhen you take care of people who
need help going forward?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
I think I try to be more compassionate, let them
know that, without oversharingtoo much, until it's the right
time, I guess, to share my story.
But I let them know, trust me,I know, I know I've been there
and if I could do it, you coulddo it too.
I didn't know I was going to bethis and now that I'm here I'm
like dude.
It's hard, trust me, it's hard,but going through it just makes
(21:01):
you feel so much better.
I've really connected with alot of the teenage girls lately
and it's just amazing to bethere for them, because I never
really had that for myselfgrowing up, especially through
that phase.
So it feels nice to be likedude.
I was in your shoes, I wasditching school Like I was doing
(21:22):
.
This Girl, I know, come on,tell me what you need and I will
figure it out for you.
It feels good to have that.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Do you use certain phrases or avoid certain terms?
Do you lead with a hug?
How do you make people feelwelcomed and respected when you
start working with them?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I think it's listening, sharing a little bit,
having a conversation with themnot talking at them, but
talking to them and then, onceit comes to the end, I ask can I
give you a hug?
And if they say yes, I'll givethem a hug and they're like
thank you.
I really needed to hear that.
Your story sounds similar to me, or it sounds like you really
(22:04):
know what I've been through andyou made me feel seen, and I
think that's my goal, just tomake people feel seen, because
it's hard when you're out hereand you're in it, you just feel
invisible and you're just goingthrough a difficult time.
You're fighting yourself andit's true what they say, that
you are your worst enemy.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
So, now that you're learning how to give back and
take care of people in their ownaddiction, what are you
surprised to have learned?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Not taking it personal If someone relapses.
I think that's what I'msurprised to learn, because I
going into this, I was like, oh,not everyone's going to relapse
, they'll be fine, I'm going tochange them.
And then come to find outsomeone left relapse and I'm
just like, oh shoot, I've beentalking to this person and I've
(22:54):
been trying my best to be therefor them, but it's not my fault.
All I can do is try my best.
So that's the most surprisingthing for me is not taking it
personal when it comes to mypatient making a mistake.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
So the million dollar question in addiction medicine
is do you hold peopleaccountable or do you
accommodate them when they needhelp?
And no one on planet earthknows the answer to this
question.
Right, if you push people toohard to hold them accountable,
it can be too hard and they canrelapse under the pressure.
And if you accommodate them,you can sometimes accommodate
(23:30):
them too much and by allowingthem too much wiggle room, it
allows them to not do the hardwork that is needed to get sober
and stay sober.
So, given your lived experienceboth what you've been through
and now what you doprofessionally how do you find
that balance around holdingpeople accountable versus
helping them when they need it?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
A phrase that I use because I feel like I let people
know like I'm gonna keep itreal with you, you know from the
beginning is you can't bullshita bullshitter dude, it's all
right that you messed up, it'sokay, we're human, but what can
we do different?
So being able to Let them knowthat they messed up, and friends
, so being able to let them knowthat they messed up, and still
(24:10):
trying to see do you still wantthis?
Because if you do, I couldstill help you.
Trying a little bit of both, Ifeel is the right answer,
because if someone would havetold me, like part of my
addiction, oh, you messed up,and that's it, you messed up, I
think I would have probablycried and probably wanted to go
back to take a pill.
I don't want to feel that.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
How do you handle it when someone's not ready or they
don't want help?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Let them know that I'm here and here's my card.
Or we come around here everyTuesday, Thursday, Friday.
If you're ever ready, I'm here.
If you see me or my coworkersor that truck with the green
sticker, you know where to findus.
We're here.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
You know, what's so amazing about the work that we
do in addiction is for peoplewith addiction.
It's a lot of shame, it's a lotof stigma.
It's a lot of not wanting peopleto know what we're doing, and
it's dark and it's it doesn'tfeel good.
(25:09):
It's to have to be honest aboutwhat we're doing just feels
horrible.
And what's absolutely amazingis when people with addiction
get treatment and then theystart to turn their lives around
to where they are able to helpothers with addiction.
All of that shame, all of thosestories, all of those
experiences now become an asset,and it's really cool because
(25:33):
what used to be something younever wanted anyone to find out
about is now something that youcan share.
When someone's struggling tosay I know how you feel, I was
there too.
That's one of the things thatgets me up out of bed every
morning is knowing that whenpeople start doing better, their
deepest, darkest secrets becometheir superpowers.
And I'm just curious how thatfeels to you, given that you've
(25:55):
been through a lot and nowyou're on the other side helping
people that need it the way youused to need it.
How does that feel to you?
Speaker 2 (26:04):
It feels like a superpower, like how you said it
.
It's super crazy that when Ifirst started this job, I was
like, oh my God, I have to sharewhat happened to me.
Oh my God, I can't believe that.
And then realizing I don't haveto share it unless I feel like
it's the right time to or theright person I'm talking to,
because not everybody needs tohear my story, but there's some
(26:24):
people that do, and when thosepeople hear it, they're like, oh
my God, anna, yes, yes, that'sit, and that feels.
Oh my God.
That makes me feel high.
It gives me that warm, fuzzyfeeling in the inside and I just
feel amazing because my storyis helping somebody.
Some of the most traumaticevents of my life are the reason
(26:48):
why somebody feels connected tome and why they feel like they
can trust me.
I think that's amazing initself and, yeah, I feel like,
honestly, I feel like cryingabout it.
I just got goosebumps.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, so tell me what's next for you.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
What's next is?
I want to do this for a littlelonger and I want to go to CSUMB
, pursue my bachelor's inpsychology and see where life
takes me.
The fact that I'm here rightnow means that there's so many
doors that I could open.
There's so many opportunitieswith my life.
I graduated college.
That's so hard.
(27:25):
That's so hard for somebodywho's been through what I've
been through and sometimes Ithink about it and I should be
worse than what I am now and thefact that I've met you and Dr
Close and CCODP and justeveryone in my life, it just
makes me feel like I have anamazing team to work with.
(27:46):
I don't know what's next, but Iknow it's something great.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Has your family started to trust you again?
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yes, oh, my God, yeah , and it feels so good to be
like the level-headed one.
My mom hey, she asked me for myopinions.
My older sister sometimes seeksmy advice and my little sister
is just we're working ourrelationship.
My little brother, too, like Ithink for a while he would tell
(28:13):
me, like you, being the badinfluence in my life made me
want to be a good influence toothers and now he wants to be a
cop.
And it's just so amazing tohave that support for my family
that I felt like I've alwayswanted and I always yearned.
And now that I'm sober I havegoals and I feel so supported in
any way.
And I know that whatever Iwanted to do with my life, my
(28:35):
mom would be like if that's whatyou want to do, then that's
what you want to do, nina.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
How far into your recovery did your family start
to trust you again?
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Last year it felt like Wow, four years.
Yeah, my family's stubborn, so Ifelt like they were trying, but
they were still unsure becauseas much as I tried to let go of
some of my old friends, some ofthem would still come around and
so they'd be like Anna, whatare you doing?
And then I just got reallyfocused into school and
(29:09):
finishing and doing better.
I stopped talking about what Iwas going to do and I just
started doing it and my mom toldme to like this was like
probably the first year that Iwas sober and she was like you
always talk about what you'regoing to do, but you never do it
.
Yeah, it took a while, but Ifeel like I finally gained all
(29:30):
of their trust and it feels goodthat just to have open
conversations and be vulnerablearound one another, it was great
.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Gosh, being vulnerable that is oh, that is
such a big part of what we do.
I was on a podcast beinginterviewed about addiction and
they asked me what's the biggestpredictor that someone will get
sober and stay sober?
And I said a willingness tofeel discomfort and be
vulnerable.
How did you actually get towhere you could be vulnerable?
Therapy Good answer Apparently,you have a good therapist.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Oh, she's amazing.
Last year I hit a really lowpoint in my depression and I was
a little worried about myself.
Hartnell College has greatcounselors and so I seek support
and I got linked up with thetrauma informed care therapist
who does EMDR, and so like I'vejust become okay with some of
(30:25):
the things that have happened tome and I've realized that the
things that have happened to meand I've realized that the
things that have happened do notdefine who I am.
They're just a part of my story.
I cried about it for a while,but now it just feels like a
surreal moment.
It feels like the sun isshining and I can see better
things ahead of me.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
So we talked about stigma, particularly self-stigma
, have you forgiven yourself forwhat you've been through and
what you did.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
That's a hard one, because I feel like forgiveness
isn't something that justhappens once.
You have to forgive yourselfover and over again, sometimes
until it's less.
My therapist actually taught methat one she goes.
It's going to be hard for youto just do it one time, but you
might have to do it in a monthor so.
Have be like okay, you knowwhat.
I already dealt with this.
I'm okay, I forgive myself.
(31:14):
I can't beat myself up over itso much.
I have to just do better.
Ultimately, I try to remindmyself sometimes that somebody
died because the things that Iwas doing and that's tough.
Yeah, I don't want someone elseto die, and if I would have
kept doing what me and theperson I was dating is doing,
like it, just more people couldhave died, it could have been
(31:36):
worse, and just to have that onme makes me think that like.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
I have to do better.
How do you handle it when oneof your clients is in a similar
situation, where they're reallystruggling with the self-stigma?
Speaker 2 (31:51):
It's a hard question.
I don't really have a goodanswer for that, because I feel
like I just listen.
I listen to them and if I don'thave anything motivating to say
, I'm just like I hear you, Isee you.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
If it was a hard question, it means it was a good
question.
You If it was a hard question,it means it was a good question.
It was a great question.
Yeah, yeah, I'm with you rightthere that just being a safe
person in their life and beingable to listen is so important.
And our patients do all sortsof things.
(32:25):
They relapse, they deal toothers of things.
They relapse, they deal toothers, they judge themselves,
they struggle, they overdose.
And what's amazing is thatthey're really nice people.
I mean, I have some really,really wonderful human beings
that are under my care that doreally bad things, and I try to
see the good in them and focuson the good parts of them and
(32:47):
just be there to be safe andsupportive.
And I like what you said whenyou said I just listen, because
that sometimes that's the bestthing we can do.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, and I love that you said that some people do
bad things but you try to lookthe good in them, because that's
what I try to do too.
I did a few mistakes in my lifeand if somebody only saw me
because of those mistakes that Idid did a few mistakes in my
life and if somebody only saw mebecause of those mistakes that
I did, I wouldn't be where I'mat right now and just giving
somebody that second chance andhearing them out.
(33:16):
You never know how thatactually helps somebody.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
I got to say, anna, this was great.
I appreciate your vulnerabilitywith me and today and sharing
and speaking, and I alsoappreciate the incredible lived
experience that you have to beable to help our clients.
And I also appreciate theincredible lived experience that
you have to be able to help ourclients, and you're right
having been where they have beenand where they are gives you a
superpower to be able to relateto them and encourage them and
(33:39):
engage them.
So thank you for all theincredible work that you do and
for sharing your story with me.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate this opportunity.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
To those healthcare providers out there treating
patients with addiction you'redoing life-saving work and thank
you for what you do Foreveryone else tuning in.
Thank you for taking the timeto learn about addiction.
It's a fight we cannot winwithout awareness and action.
There's still so much we can doto improve how addiction is
treated.
Together, we can make it happen.
(34:12):
Thanks for listening andremember treating addiction
saves lives.
Bye.
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