September 15, 2025 • 43 mins
This episode is the second episode of a four part series on stigma.
This episode is done in collaboration with Central Coast Overdose Prevention (CCODP) and was made possible by California Overdose Prevention Network Accelerator funding from the Public Health Institute's Center for Health Leadership and Impact.
In this episode, Gabrielle shares her powerful journey from fentanyl addiction to recovery, highlighting the unexpected moment of compassion from a correctional officer that changed everything. Her story reveals how respect and dignity can transform recovery outcomes, while exploring the deep impact of self-stigma and family support.
She shares her experience:
• Hitting rock bottom on Christmas Eve 2022 after stealing her mother's car during active fentanyl addiction
• Experiencing six overdoses, with each one bringing her closer to death
• Finding transformation through a year-long program at Teen Challenge
• Encountering a correctional officer who showed unexpected compassion and dignity
• Battling intense self-stigma despite having family who never gave up on her
• Receiving an ultimatum from her pregnant sister that became a powerful motivator
• Learning that recovery meant becoming a different person, not just the same person without drugs
• Moving from shame about her addiction to being open about her recovery journey
• Finding ways to help others by showing kindness and treating "humans like humans"
• Building a life she couldn't have imagined three years ago, working six days a week and helping with her sister's child
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, remember you don't have to do it alone. There are many avenues to recovery, and compassion can make all the difference.
To Contact Dr. Grover: ammadeeasy@fastmail.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Addiction Medicine Made Easy
Podcast.
Hey there, I'm Dr Casey Grover,an addiction medicine doctor
based on California's CentralCoast.
(00:22):
For 14 years I worked in theemergency department seeing
countless patients strugglingwith addiction.
Now I'm on the other side ofthe fight, helping people
rebuild their lives when drugsand alcohol take control.
Thanks for tuning in.
Let's get started.
Today's episode is the secondepisode of a four-part series on
(00:45):
stigma, specifically the stigmathat people with addiction and
mental health conditions faceand how it affects them and
their families, and I have togive two shout-outs before we
start.
This episode is done incollaboration with Central Coast
Overdose Prevention, which is anonprofit I helped found here
on the Central Coast ofCalifornia focused on advocating
(01:07):
for addiction treatment, andthis podcast was made possible
by California OverdosePrevention Network Accelerator
funding from the Public HealthInstitute's Center for Health
Leadership and Impact.
This episode is an interviewwith Gabrielle.
She's lived with addiction andhit rock bottom in the past, and
now she's sober and getting herlife back on track.
(01:30):
We're going to hear her storyand hear her perspective,
including one particular personwho unexpectedly treated her
with respect and helped tochange her life.
And next week, for the thirdpart of the series, we're going
to hear what it was like for hermother trying to help when
Gabrielle was in activeaddiction.
(01:50):
One quick point before we start.
Gabrielle talks about some ofher feelings and perspectives
while she was in activeaddiction during this episode,
and she makes a few commentsabout not being homeless, and I
just wanted to clarify what thismeant.
This was an expression of herself-stigma, her acknowledging
that she had a family and a homeand yet she was still relapsing
(02:13):
.
That being said, our unhousedpatients face a lot of stigma,
so just a reminder for all of usto pay attention to the stigma
that our unhoused patients facetoo.
And with that, here we go.
All right, well, good afternoon.
Why don't you start by tellingme who you are and where you
(02:34):
live right now?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Hello, I'm Gabrielle, I am 31 years old and I live in
Holster and we were going totalk about recovery today.
Okay, so my clean date isDecember 29th of 2022.
I unfortunately didn't do itthe easy way and I ended up in
jail on Christmas Eve of 2022.
(02:59):
The way I ended up there was mymom actually called the cops on
me because I took her car and Iwas doing really, really bad.
I had been addicted to fentanyl.
At that point I had relapsed.
I had probably been relapsedfor about at least a year and a
half to two years.
I hid it pretty well until Ijust couldn't hide it anymore.
(03:21):
It just got out of control.
So I ended up in jail and I hadcalled my mom from jail and I
just I was ready to stop andmake a change.
And she found a program for mewhich I was so blessed to be
able to go to a program calledTeen Challenge.
I had tried programs in thepast.
Unfortunately, like relapse isdefinitely a part of my story
(03:43):
before this chance that I wasgiven.
Teen Challenge is a one-yearprogram and before I went to
Teen Challenge, I did not knowthat.
So I had agreed with my mom togo to this program.
It was like as long as I canget out of jail thing in the
beginning, and then on the wayup, which was we were driving
from San Jose to Reading, I waslike, oh, how long is this
program?
And she's like, oh, it's toReading.
(04:04):
I was like, oh, how long isthis program?
And she's like, oh, it's a year.
And I was like, no, I'm notgoing, I can't do that.
And so I told her, well, I'llagree to three months, to just
right off the bat, and she'slike you're staying the year.
But in my head I was like, well, I'm just agreeing to three
months and the program.
I didn't really have arelationship with God, but
(04:25):
obviously that changedthroughout my stay there and so
I started in Redding and then Itransferred to the Yuba City
facility.
I was there for a majority ofthe year that I was in the
program and throughout that yearI think I just finally accepted
.
(04:46):
I think what I struggled withwith like my relapses before was
like wanting to be the sameperson minus the drugs, because
I was embarrassed, like I didn'twant to tell people like, oh,
I'm an addict in recovery, liketo me going to NA meetings and
saying that was easy, but likeon a day-to day basis with like
people who didn't struggle.
It was embarrassing for me andso I really found that teen
(05:10):
challenge.
I just realized like I couldn'tbe the same me.
The same me was the one whobrought the problems everywhere,
like the problems followed andI think, throughout that long
term stay which for me is whathelped the most, I think, is
that I was removed completelypretty much from society, like
no phone, no computer, no TV.
(05:30):
We barely listened to the radiofor the whole year.
I think that's what I neededand it helped remove that and
just be comfortable in my ownskin.
I was always worried about looks, how I looked, my hair being
done, stuff like that, and I docare about those things.
Don't get me wrong, I'm notgoing to act like I don't, but
it just wasn't as important.
The materialistic things justbecame very unimportant to me
(05:53):
because I had none of that whenI was there for the year and I
hardly wore makeup, hardly didmy hair.
We worked, we fundraised, wehit down to the basics of life
again and it really transformedthat.
So today, like I would say twoand a half years into this, my
life is very, very differentthan it was, I would say, three
years ago.
(06:13):
I have really greatrelationships.
I've always been a hard worker.
I'm just a hard worker in adifferent way.
But moving back to Hollister, Ifound myself in the beginning
being embarrassed again.
People asking like oh, where'dyou go?
You run into everybody at thegrocery store it's a small town.
And oh my gosh, I haven't seenyou in so long.
How are you?
(06:33):
And I'm like, oh, I'm actuallyreally good.
For the first time I could saythat like in mean it, and it's
so funny.
I completely forgot about thispodcast.
And yesterday at work I work ata restaurant you get really
close with people and they'resix days a week and you see a
lot of the same faces.
Like I said, it's a small town,so the same people come in all
the time and this one family isa husband and wife, but they
(06:57):
normally come in with their twosons.
Well, the wife always gets atonic water and I would never
ask I know, know better to ask,obviously because I'm in
recovery and sometimes that canoffend people.
I never asked because they'llsit at the bar, the husband will
be drinking and the wife gets atonic water.
And yesterday I don't even knowhow the conversation was
(07:18):
brought up but I said oh yeah,like I'm in recovery, I've been
clean for two and a half years.
And she was like so you'retelling me the whole time you've
been working here, we've bothbeen in recovery and neither of
us have talked about it.
And I was like, well, it's notthe first thing I talked about
at work, but with people that Iget like all my regular, regular
customers know that about me.
Well, she come to find outshe's been sober for five years.
(07:44):
When it happens at work, I feellike it's just an odd place for
it to happen at to meet peoplelike you.
But I'm the first one topromote our like non-alcoholic
beer.
You know what I mean?
Stuff like that.
And so that's how theconversations start with some
people is they'll ask if we havelike non-alcoholic beer.
I'm like, oh really.
I was like, oh yeah, I don'tdrink either.
Oh really, I was like oh yeah,I don't drink either.
(08:05):
And that's normally how theconversation gets started.
But last night it was just likevery special.
And then she told me likealcohol was her problem,
obviously, and I was like I'mnot afraid to admit it anymore
and I feel like the stigmaaround fentanyl the word.
When I was in the program wewould do fundraising and you go
door to door and you knock onthese people's door and you just
tell them their story and wewould me and the girls that I
(08:25):
was in the house with we wouldlike make a joke like are you
going to drop the F-bomb today?
Because it really is like anF-bomb.
Once you say that word fentanyl, it either like scares people
or it like intrigues people, orpeople just have so many
questions about it and like fromthe outside looking in, people
don't assume that about me.
And that's the first thing thatcouple said.
(08:46):
They were like I would neverhave guessed and I was like,
yeah, yeah, no, most peopledon't, but I think of opening
people's eyes to it couldliterally be like your next door
neighbor, the 60 year old womanliving right next door to you,
could be struggling, and soyesterday when I dropped the
F-bomb with her, they justcouldn't believe it.
(09:07):
I don't get like super into mystory, but I have overdosed I
think six times and that'soverdose, like actually taken to
the hospital overdosed, I'msure like I've had smaller ones
that I just don't remember.
Each overdose like gettingcloser and closer to not coming
back from oh, it gets a littleemotional.
Probably one of the worst oneswas my best friend found me
(09:32):
outside of her house.
I was just sitting on herdoorstep and I had taken the
blue pills and I wasunresponsive and she called my
mom.
She called my mom and my momshowed up and I was like
completely blue, no lifewhatsoever in my body, and her
and my younger sister, who Ilive with, saw me like that and
(09:54):
thank god for EMS here in thefire department here in
Hollister, because they saved mylife countless times
unfortunately.
So that was probably like themost traumatic.
I mean for myself, for myfamily.
But every time I overdosed itwas like this feeling of like
when you come back, like thisgasp for air and this bone
(10:17):
chilling coldness in your body.
Like I can't even explain thislevel of how cold you are.
But this last time I overdosedand then my mom called the cops
on me because I stole her carthe next day because I was
looking for more drugs.
You know what I mean.
So when I overdosed the lasttime though it's been about, I
think, six times, but this lasttime I didn't have that like gas
(10:41):
for air.
There's no recollection of theevents and normally like when
you come to, you come to andit's.
I never actually came to thistime, and I think that's what
like scared me the most Was thatI don't know, I don't remember
any of it, like I have norecollection of those events
whatsoever and to this day likeI've still tried to rack my
(11:04):
brain Like there's just like aperiod of three days that I just
don't remember at all, and so Ithink that's what was really
scary for me, because each timeI just got so much closer to
that point where I wasn't goingto come back from Mentally.
My poor brain should have nevercame back from.
There's an ER doctor here inHolster, dr Bogey.
He's so great, just treat youwith dignity and doesn't make
(11:31):
you feel worthless.
But unfortunately, when Ioverdosed the last time, it was
in San Jose and they justtreated me like I was just some
homeless off the street.
That, oh, it was just anotherone when I was going to be back
the next day, and that was justlike such an ugly feeling for my
mom to see that too, because Ido have people that care about
me.
I wasn't like a homeless on thestreet, like it shouldn't have
(11:53):
been her daughter.
You know what I mean.
Like I was a human being.
I was.
I was someone's daughter layingthere, someone's sister, and
that feeling of feeling so lowand less than because of like
choices that I made.
And so when I went to jail thenobviously like I was obviously
withdrawing really bad in jailand the CEOs just treating me
(12:15):
like I was just like nothing,nothing, like I was so sick,
like I could not even lift myhead up, just throwing up hot
and cold and just awful.
It was awful In jail, like Ithink they do three days on,
four days off type shifts.
So the whole time I was there Ihad this one CO during the day.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
CO being correctional officer.
Correctional officer yeah,Thank you.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
This one correctional officer during the day.
It was the same lady the wholetime I was there.
Well, the last day that I wasthere it must have been like a
shift change and it was adifferent lady and I was
supposed to go to court thefollowing day and this new
correctional officer the doorjust opened and I was like what
(13:02):
the heck?
I'm out of my mind.
I'm not even like relativelyokay, like I'm so foggy I can't
even freaking, think straight,can't talk, can't walk.
But the door just opened and Iwas like what the heck?
Like I've never really been injail like that, ever before, so
this is all like really new tome.
But I know a door shouldn'tjust open like that.
(13:28):
And so I like kind of like walktowards it.
And this tall lady I don't evenknow her name.
I would love to find out hername one day.
She called me by my last nameand said I have good news and I
have bad news.
And I was like, okay, can't bemuch worse than sitting in jail.
I'm already here, so I don'tknow how much worse it can get.
And she said Well, I'm alreadyhere, so I don't know how much
worse it can get.
And she said well, the goodnews is you're getting released,
get your stuff, you get to gohome.
(13:49):
And the bad news is, if you donot stop this, you're going to
die.
Because she had come andbrought breakfast earlier that
morning.
She's like what are you kicking?
Obviously she could tell I wasdying there.
And I said, oh, I told herfentanyl.
(14:09):
And she was like Dude, do youhave a mom that cares about you?
And I told her yeah, I said I'mgonna go to a program.
And she was like yeah, I hearthat a lot, but didn't make me
feel like she was judging me byany means, but I could only
imagine how much she hears that.
And so when she told me that Iwas getting released, when she
said I have good news and I havebad news, she had just said
you're going to die If you don'tstop now, like you're going to
(14:31):
die and I don't want to see youin the newspaper or anything.
I was like no, no, no, like I'mgoing to a program, I promise, I
promise, like I'm going to aprogram straight from here.
But can I call my mom year?
But can I call my mom?
Because I was not supposed togo to court till the next day
and my mom was all the way inHollister and I'm in jail in San
Jose and the plan was for me toget out of jail and go straight
to this program.
(14:52):
Well, their bed wasn't going tobe open until the next day and
I knew all this in my head.
So I'm like trying to get aholdof my mom and she was like, okay
, well, I need to call them andI need to go get you some stuff
at the house.
She was at work.
I need to go get you some stuffat the house so you could take
with you, because I have nothingwith me, obviously.
And I was like I don't evencare about that, I need you to
(15:13):
come now.
I need you to come right now.
If you could please drop whatyou're doing and come now.
If you do not get here by thetime, I'm being released, like
I'm scared of myself.
And so she came, and well, shedidn't come right away.
It was a pretty long drive.
So I had been released and I wassitting there waiting outside
of this jail and just so sick,so, so, so sick, and all I could
(15:38):
think about was I'm not goingto get through this.
There's no way I'm going to getthrough this.
So I'm sitting outside the jailand I keep asking to go back
inside, to use the phone, tokeep calling her to see where
she's at, because I'm about tojust take off right now.
I'm going to go find something.
I'll go to the program afterand she's like please, please,
just don't leave, I'm coming,I'm coming.
Which she always showed up forme.
(15:59):
She was always right therefighting by my side.
My sister, too, just never gaveup.
Thank God, thank God they justnever gave up.
But one thing I could say is mymom's never been ashamed of me,
my sister's never been ashamedto call me her sister, and to me
(16:26):
that's insane.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Let's unpack that a little bit.
So I don't know how much youknow about stigma, but
self-stigma is where peoplejudge themselves yeah and by
your tears I would guess thatthere's some self-stigma that
you lived through and yet yourfamily did not, yeah, judge you
in the same way.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Talk to me about that I think I've just really
struggled with.
I wasn't raised this way.
This wasn't how my life wassupposed to be.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
No one plans their life to go that direction.
I go to a lot of schools and Iask those kids what they want to
be when they grow up.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Nobody says kicking fentanyl in jail, yeah.
Yeah, and I think that's whatI've struggled with over the
years for so long.
I'm not ashamed anymore, butobviously that feeling's still
there.
Of course I mean I'm prettyhappy on a day-to-day basis, but
it's still there.
I see people I went to highschool with like super
(17:16):
successful and owning houses andhaving married with kids, and
that self-stigma oh, I should bethere, but I'm not, and that's
okay.
I finally, but I'm not, andthat's okay.
I finally come to the pointwhere it's.
That's okay.
That wasn't my path.
I made different choices and mychoices led me down a different
road, but I've always, like howyou said, circled back to being
(17:39):
so almost in awe that myfamily's never been ashamed and
I've carried that shame, nomatter how much they said we're
gonna get through this.
That shame and guilt, I don'tknow.
I mean two and a half years in,I don't know if it ever truly
like leaves.
I think you learn how to justdeal with it in a different way
(18:01):
and it's just not so prominent,because I don't live in that
shame and guilt every day whenit's talked about.
I think is when I revert backto those feelings more than
feeling like that on a dailybasis because I'm a productive
member of society.
I know who I am today, but youdo.
You get sucked back into that.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Gabrielle, do you use the term addict to describe?
Speaker 2 (18:22):
yourself.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I do.
I do it's interesting.
I was at an event and a womanwas speaking.
We were doing an aloxonetraining or narcan training.
Yeah and a woman, and this isnot her name.
She said hi everyone, I'm sarah, I'm an addict and I'm proud of
that.
Yeah because the person I amtoday is stronger than I ever
could have been.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Oh yeah, and I can identify with that.
So the first program I everwent to was a non 12 set program
.
They taught you like you're notan addict If you're not using
you're not an addict.
And it's funny that you bringthat up, because towards the end
of that program you like doamends with your family and so
you call them and my mom calledme an addict on the phone and I
(19:01):
absolutely lost it on her likeI'm not an addict, addict and
you are the one who sent me tothis program that teaches us,
like that I'm not an addict.
Like how dare you?
And obviously like, throughoutthe years of relapsing and
getting back into recovery, Istepped into the rooms of
Narcotics Anonymous.
I've met amazing people thereand so I 100% identify as an
(19:25):
addict, because that doesn'tjust describe me being an addict
to drugs and alcohol.
I am an addict in every way,shape and form, like it's in my
DNA.
I cannot do anything withoutfully throwing myself into it.
I don't know how to explain it,but work.
(19:47):
I work six days a week.
You know what I mean.
And anytime they need someoneto cover, I'm the first one to
cover.
So I just identify as an addictthrough and through.
I don't know how to do anything.
A little bit.
There's no like half steppingin my life.
I'm either like not interestedat all, or I'm full force balls
to the wall, going to doeverything, and that's like a
(20:08):
blessing and a curse, I think.
Well, said Because I think I dolike how the stigma around the
shame and the guilt of being anaddict there's also, like this
shame and the guilt of not beingthere for your family,
obviously, like during the timeI was using and then all the
times that I was away andtreatment and stuff like that.
And so I think now I really tryto overcompensate and I think
(20:33):
I'm finally stepping into thisplace in my life where I'm
seeing how much I overcompensateand I'm seeing how much it
wears me down almost in the sameway like drugs do, like you get
to that point where you're justlike exhausted all the time
because you're just trying toshow up for everybody and just
be the person for every otherperson and just not really
(20:55):
having anywhere to go yourselves.
I don't want to go to my mombecause I don't want her to
worry, like when I'm having arough day is she going to go,
relapse, and I've caused thatand I've accepted that.
I've caused that.
That's exactly where her mind'sgoing to go.
And so, over showing up forpeople, I don't know how to say
no.
That's where, like, the curseof it comes in is not knowing
(21:18):
how to say no, because I think Ihave that guilt of not being
there before because of makingpoor choices, and so I'm doing
so good now.
Why wouldn't I say yes?
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Do you think that's going to get better?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
I'm stepping into it, getting a little bit better.
I'm starting to say no, I'mreally tired today.
I'm not going to do that.
So I think I'm very, very, veryslowly learning to say no.
But I just recently realizedhow much of a problem it is.
I'm a people pleaser.
I just want everybody to getalong.
I don't want to fight withanybody.
I spent so many years arguingwith everybody.
(21:50):
You know what I mean Lying toeverybody that it's just.
I just want everybody to getalong and nobody to fight ever.
And that's just not reality.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I was going to ask you you mentioned stigma and
you're coming to terms with yourrecovery and realizing that
you've proven yourself inrecovery.
Yeah, I wanted to come back tothat female correctional officer
that you talked about, becauseshe was pretty straight with you
.
Oh, yeah, like she did notmince her words, no, but it
sounds like she didn't make youfeel judged.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
No, there was like so much empathy and compassion and
just my grandma says she's anangel.
She's like.
I bet you that lady is not evenreal and it was just an angel.
She always says that the waythis lady like made me feel and
I mean, we're two and a halfyears later and I will never
(22:39):
forget the way she made me feel.
She made me feel like a humanbeing and like she cared, and
like the night and day, comparedto the correctional officer
that was working before her whomade me feel like absolute scum
of the earth, like I had noright in the world.
No, nobody cared.
And the way that this ladyactually cared if I lived or
died and this lady has no ideawho I am Never seen me before,
(23:03):
that has never seen me after.
That Just truly was in herposition for a reason you know
what I mean which you don't hearabout often.
You don't hear about thatempathy and compassion in those
positions, unfortunately.
And so this lady just didn'tjudge me, saw me for who I was,
saw me for the problem that Ihad, but didn't see me as a
(23:27):
nobody because of it or somebodywho couldn't become somebody
after it.
It's like she saw something inme that at that point I couldn't
see in myself, because I don'tthink someone like that says
those words to someone, unlessthey're like dude, you could get
it together.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
So let me ask as a follow-up to that you mentioned
that she was compassionate withyou and she saw something in you
that you didn't.
As you've gotten into recovery,have you learned to be
compassionate with yourself?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yes, yes, I I'm a lot softer with myself in the
beginning.
I wasn't in the beginning likeI was still really really hard
on myself and I have good daysand I have bad days.
Today, as your position thatyou're in, I'm sure you've heard
of all these like sayings andna meanings, of course, but it's
like my worst day out here.
It doesn't even compare to mybest day, high Like.
(24:19):
It really doesn't Like myproblems today are so minute
compared to like my problemsback then.
It was like robbing Peter to payPaul and lying to Sally to like
just constantly, just like thischaotic life that I live today.
Like I have a schedule.
My problems today they're soeasy and so like when I get
overwhelmed I'll talk with mysister and then we'll sit there
(24:42):
and we're like, but we live areally good life today.
You know what I mean.
Like our life.
We couldn't have imagined ourlife being like this three years
ago.
If you would have asked eitherof us, we would have probably
laughed in your face.
I live a really good life todayand I think I think the
compassion with myself didn'tcome until, honestly, like until
I got back on my feet againfinancially, being productive
(25:06):
again, and like being able to dothings for myself again.
But once I was able to do thosethings, I was able to give
myself a little more of a break.
I mean, I still struggle withit, like I still think I need to
be the best at everything and Istill have something to prove
to everybody.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Have you forgiven yourself?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I think for a lot of things I have, I've never known
the answer to that question.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Ah, glad I asked.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, because I think , like you do forgive yourself,
I did a lot of work over theyear that I was in the program.
I did a lot of counseling, Idid a lot of praying and
journaling and I think I haveforgiven myself, but I don't
forget.
I don't forget, and so I thinkthe answer would be yes, but
(25:55):
there's always a but.
It's part of your story, youknow.
It doesn't affect me on aday-to-day basis.
Like I said earlier, like theshame and the guilt, it's not
prominent in my life on aday-to-day basis.
I know I'm not those thingsthat I was back then.
Today I know I'm not thosethings and so I think that,
right, there is the answer tothat.
(26:16):
I don't think if I didn'tforgive myself, I wouldn't know
the truth about who I am today.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Of course, that's a very good answer.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, but, like I said, you just don't forget.
And it still lives there andit's still.
You're the hardest on yourself.
You know what I mean.
You lived it.
You know what you've done.
I mean my, my family knows someof what I've done, but they
don't know everything and theydon't need to know everything.
How did your?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
family being supportive.
Help you when you were ready toget in the recovery.
Oh, I couldn't have done itwithout them.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
How so?
My sister, the one that I livewith and work with, she has a
two and a half year old.
So the ultimatum was she waspregnant.
So when I went to jail she waspregnant.
She was like eight monthspregnant and she's actually the
one who picked me up from theoverdose at the hospital the
night before I went to jail, butI just put her through the
(27:08):
ringer.
She's always stuck by my sidethrough all the years of
treatment centers, always comingto visit me.
She's a super soft spot for me.
She's never turned her back onme, my number one fan, always
there to pick me back up when Ifall and just cheers me on and
just supports me so much.
(27:31):
But the ultimatum was that if Ididn't figure it out, I wasn't
going to be allowed to be in herlife, which I never thought she
would say, but even more so herdaughter's life, because she
said that she's going to havesomeone else to worry about now
and she's just not willing tohave that a part of her
daughter's life.
She's not bringing her daughterinto that.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Wow, that must have been tough for your sister.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Oh, I couldn't imagine.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
So, so hard and I made a promise to her that I
would do this.
I mean in the beginning.
I did it for her, I think inthe beginning, getting yourself
back into getting clean again.
You don't do it for yourself.
Initially I think I was just ina really dark place and didn't
care about myself.
Obviously I don't think you'readdicted to fentanyl and have a
(28:19):
lot of care for yourself.
I know when it first starts.
You're not like that.
You know when you first try itthat first time that's not your
intention, but it just takes youdown this dark, dark place that
you feel like you're nevergoing to get out of.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
How was that conversation with your sister
when she told you you need toget help?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Well, I was on my way , I called her and I was like
hey, like I'm going to a program, and she just said it.
And she said it.
So, matter of factly, it waslike one of the hardest
conversations I've ever had, andI'm sure it's probably one of
the hardest conversations she'sever had.
But I told her I'm going to getclean and I'm going to stick to
it this time, and I've saidthat in the past.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
You've heard it so many times, of course, yeah,
yeah, yeah, you've said itbefore.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
And what does my mom always call it?
The tough love.
I think I really needed that inthat period.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Did she make you feel like she was judging you during
the conversation?
Speaker 2 (29:13):
She said I can't watch you hurt like this, I
can't watch you do this toyourself and I can't allow it to
be in my daughter's life.
She wasn't judging me.
She's never judged me, she'snever understood it either.
She just couldn't take itanymore.
I was killing myself.
Of course I was killing myselfand that is like her worst fear
is like her getting that call orwaking up to me not being here
(29:38):
anymore.
She always says I don't knowwhat I would do.
I mean, we're like thisabsolute best friend in the
whole wide world.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Gabrielle, what was the biggest motivator for you to
get sober?
Her baby?
Did anyone judging you ormaking you feel worse about
yourself make a difference inwanting to get sober?
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, of course that lights a fire under your butt.
I was in the program and one ofthe counselors at the time made
this comment that I wasn'tgoing to see it through, I
wasn't going to last the wholeyear.
And I was like, oh okay, youthink I can't do this?
And I've always been one ofthose people like, okay, I'm
going to prove you wrong, likejust for the point of you're not
(30:21):
going to put me down and say Ican't do something, because I
know I can do whatever I put myheart to.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Was it a judgmental comment, or he was challenging
you, or what was thatinteraction like?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I was really close with her.
Still, I just talked to her onthe phone the other day.
I think as someone else itcould have been taken as
judgmental, but because I knowher now and know her character,
it was a challenge.
I think she saw a lot ofherself in me and knew that's
something that got her to stickit through, was like someone
saying, oh no, you're not goingto do it and we're close today.
(30:53):
And when I graduated she shookmy hand at the ceremony or
whatever, and she was like Iknew you were going to do it.
Oh, wow, yeah.
So I was like, oh okay, so youdid that because you were
pushing me.
And she pushed me throughout mywhole program oh my gosh.
And she was the director of thecenter that I was at.
And, oh my gosh, this ladypushed me past my limits some
(31:13):
days, but she always told meexactly like it was, didn't
sugarcoat it, she had beenthrough it herself and so she
was speaking from experience.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
So it sounds like it was less judgment and more
challenging.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
You mentioned the correctional officer.
The first one made you justfeel horrible.
Did that motivate you at all?
Speaker 2 (31:35):
No, I mean, it sounds like it just hurt it just hurt.
It just makes it less than Imean.
It obviously had an effectbecause I compare the two
correctional officers soobviously there was an effect
there.
But it just hurt At that point.
After being in and out oftreatment centers and stuff over
the years you just get used topeople treating you like that,
unfortunately.
I know it shouldn't be likethat.
Some people just are gonnatreat you like that and that's
(31:57):
okay.
That's a them problem, not a meproblem did you know that at
the time?
if I did, I didn't recognize itas that at the time.
Okay, I just thought, oh mygosh, this lady is super
miserable.
Like why is she doing this job?
This is the people that shechose to work with.
You know what I mean.
(32:17):
But I think now, as a differentperson today, who knows what she
was going through?
Who knows if her sister was anaddict and it brought something
up for her or her mom?
You know what I mean.
Who knows?
Maybe she was just having a badweek?
I mean, I pray to God shedoesn't treat everybody that
walks through there like that,because I think it could be
(32:39):
detrimental to some people.
But I think that I'm one of thefortunate ones who has the
support of my family and of thepeople around me who love me so
much that someone like that'sopinion doesn't weigh compared
to the people who love me andsupport me's opinion.
But I couldn't imagine likesomeone making me feel like that
and not having the people wholove me and support me as
opinion.
But I couldn't imagine likesomeone making me feel like that
and not having the peoplebehind me.
(33:01):
I wouldn't even know what thatwould be like.
I just have my family support.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Gabrielle, tell me, if someone walked into your
restaurant next week and said,hey, I'm trying to get sober, do
you know anywhere I can go?
What sort of language would youuse with them?
How would you talk to them?
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Well, I would sit down.
It wouldn't just be like inpassing, like bringing someone
to ranch.
I would sit down and just Ithink it would be like I know
where you're at, you're notalone with where you're at, I've
been exactly where you are andthere's so many avenues nowadays
that you can take to get better.
(33:41):
Obviously, like my number onething would be to teen challenge
, because that's the place thatworked for me, but I know that
that's not the only option andthat's not a one size fits all.
Obviously, no program is.
I've tried numerous differenttypes of programs and not
everything works for everybody,but I I would say that to
(34:01):
someone, this is what worked forme.
But there's so many options, somany different options that you
could take.
There's conscious recovery,there's the 12 steps.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
There's just so many different avenues to take that
could be more fitting forsomeone else and I'm assuming I
know the answer to this question, but I'm just gonna ask it
anyways.
I'm assuming you, as you walkedinto that conversation, would
know that that person has shameand guilt.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, would you tryto address it?
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I think it would just depend on, like, the person and
how the conversation was going,if I knew them or if it was
just like around a person comingin, because I know like
addressing it is just so muchmore than surface level.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Not something that I could like really dig into in
that space, and so I don't knowthat I would want to open up
that wound in that space, and soI don't know that I would want
to open up that wound in thatspace.
I would definitely say, hey,can we meet later where we could
actually like figure somethingout and start unpacking some of
this and seeing how I can helpyou.
But I just think it's like verysituational and I don't know
(35:10):
that the restaurant would belike a super safe space, of
course, and I would never likewant to just be like oh hey, I
got to go run this food reallyfast, stop crying really quick,
so I can.
Oh, like I would never wantsomeone to feel like that.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
So what I'm hearing from you is first introduction
to the conversation would justbe to provide support and
actually digging intoself-stigma and guilt.
Probably a deeper conversation,Is that right?
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah, definitely.
I think self-stigma is just alot deeper than people.
I think self-stigma is just alot deeper than people.
Even before you asking thesequestions, I don't think I
realized how deep it goes.
There's a lot there and youdon't get to that point
overnight.
It could be years, it could beweeks, it could be months and
you just don't know until youactually start talking to
(35:55):
someone.
For me this is 10 plus yearsstruggling with this and just
being on the other side of itnow for the first time for this
amount of time, I've had boutsof clean time in the past, but
never this successful, neverthis long, obviously.
But being asked, I guess I'venever been asked about the self
(36:17):
stigma.
It's always just stigma ofbeing like an addict, like
surrounding other people, howother people see it.
The self, I think, is just likesomething that really needs to
be like study.
So much that goes into it.
Do you still do 12 step work?
I don't.
I don't.
Once in a while, like I'll go toa meeting here in Hollister.
(36:39):
A few months ago I actuallywent with a friend who I
actually introduced her to 12steps, like years ago when she
was struggling and I was cleanat the time, and now she's like
a real big part of the communityhere and I was like, oh, like I
.
I haven't wanted to go to ameeting here in Hollister
because of the shame and theguilt.
(37:00):
So I was at the Sober Living,the Sun Street Sober Living,
here in Hollister, and Iactually overdosed there a few
years ago 2019, I think and Ihaven't returned to the rooms
here in Hollister since then,just because everybody knew what
happened.
I really didn't returned to therooms here in Holster since
then, just because everybodyknew what happened.
I really didn't want to runinto anybody who knew or who was
(37:23):
there at the house during thattime.
And so finally, one day I waslike you know what?
I'm just going to go.
I needed to be around peoplelike me, people who understood
me.
I was having a bad day.
And so I reached out to myfriend and she's like yeah, meet
me there.
And, sure enough, one of theladies who was at the house was
at the meeting.
She started crying when she sawme.
(37:43):
She was like I thought you died.
I never saw you again afterthat day because I went to a
program and then left town againand she thought I passed away.
So that was hard.
You just don't realize how itaffects people around you,
people who you would never evenexpect that it affected.
So, like once in a while, likeI'll go to a 12-step meeting.
(38:05):
The program, like I said, Iwent to, was faith-based.
It wasn't 12-step, so I gotreally into church.
I do a lot of like onlinechurches.
I work six days a week now, soit's harder.
And I help my sister with herbaby.
We six days a week now, so it'sharder and I help my sister
with her baby.
We work opposite shifts, sowhen I'm not at work I have the
(38:25):
baby and she's at work.
But there's a church in YubaCity that I watch online a lot.
I just have a really closeconnection there and obviously I
can't go.
It's in Yuba City, of course,and then I have a pastor.
So when I was in the program Iwas like my second day there.
They played her sermon on the TVmy second night and her name is
Sarah Jakes Roberts.
Her dad is TD Jakes.
(38:45):
He's like a real big timepastor.
They played this sermon calledGirl Get Up.
I'll never forget it Like I'velistened to it millions of times
since then and it was just likeexactly what I needed to hear
in that moment.
So I listened to a lot of herstuff.
I actually have my sister likelistening to her right now too,
which is really cool.
So I don't really do likerecovery meetings, but I do a
(39:07):
lot of faith-based stuff andthen I just keep in contact with
my friends that I went throughthe program with or who are
working at Teen Challenge.
I keep in like really closecontact with them who are
working at Team Challenge.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I keep in really close contact with them.
So, gabrielle, tell me, whenyou look back and you think
about feeling judged or feelingput down when you approach
someone who's trying to getsober themselves, is there
anything you do specifically toavoid them feeling that way?
Speaker 2 (39:38):
I think just showing love when someone's unlovable my
mom's told me that I've beenvery unlovable, or no.
I guess her words are I willalways love you, but I've not
always liked you.
The kindness and compassionthat I was shown by that CEO, I
would aspire to show that tosomebody else, because I know
that that lady left a mark on meand I would never want to leave
(40:02):
a negative mark on someone.
I would only want them to thinkback and be like wow, that
person helped change my life.
I think that would be.
The biggest thing is justgetting down to their level.
Without actually getting downto their level.
You know where that level is.
It's really letting someoneknow that there is a way out.
I think when you're there, youjust don't think there's any way
(40:25):
out and so just really likereiterating that you can get out
of there, like you don't haveto stay there.
It doesn't matter what otherpeople think.
If you know in your heart thatthat's not the life you want,
you can do it.
You just have to have thatwillpower to just say no, that
you just don't want to live likethat anymore.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Our core values in our addiction medicine practice
are respect and kindness.
And I'm always surprised.
My patients will come in aftera relapse and they've got the
negative body posture andthey're feeling horrible.
And I'll just say, hey, it'snice to see you, yeah, and they
just seem so off guard.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yeah, just happy to see you.
Yeah, cause it could just somuch so fast, not be the case.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Well said.
And particularly in the era offentanyl it is.
Oh, it's playing with fire.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
It's literally minute to minute.
I've had so many people be likedude, I'm just glad that you're
still here, cause it.
I mean I, like I said, I've hadso many close calls and it's
just just showing kindness tosomeone.
It doesn't take much likebuying someone a water, like a
homeless guy.
Somebody out there loves youand you're not alone.
(41:35):
You do feel so alone sometimes,but there's so many people who,
especially right now, like I'mseeing so much like on TikTok,
of people like getting cleanfrom fentanyl.
There's so many people outthere just like you and you
don't have to do it alone, whichis so cool.
Nowadays it's literally like aclick of a finger.
You don't have to be alone.
(41:56):
You could jump on a meeting orget in touch with people so
easily now.
So it's just showing kindnessand treating humans like humans.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Well said.
Well, that is a beautifulmessage to end on, Gabrielle.
Congratulations on two and ahalf years of recovery.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Thank you.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
To those healthcare providers out there treating
patients with addiction you'redoing life-saving work and thank
you for what you do Foreveryone else tuning in.
Thank you for taking the timeto learn about addiction.
It's a fight we cannot winwithout awareness and action.
There's still so much we can doto improve how addiction is
treated.
Together, we can make it happen.
(42:37):
Thanks for listening andremember treating addiction is
treated Together we can make ithappen.
Thanks for listening andremember treating addiction
saves lives.
Welcome to the Addiction Medicine Made Easy
Podcast.
Hey there, I'm Dr Casey Grover,an addiction medicine doctor
based on California's CentralCoast.
(00:22):
For 14 years I worked in theemergency department seeing
countless patients strugglingwith addiction.
Now I'm on the other side ofthe fight, helping people
rebuild their lives when drugsand alcohol take control.
Thanks for tuning in.
Let's get started.
Today's episode is the secondepisode of a four-part series on
(00:45):
stigma, specifically the stigmathat people with addiction and
mental health conditions faceand how it affects them and
their families, and I have togive two shout-outs before we
start.
This episode is done incollaboration with Central Coast
Overdose Prevention, which is anonprofit I helped found here
on the Central Coast ofCalifornia focused on advocating
(01:07):
for addiction treatment, andthis podcast was made possible
by California OverdosePrevention Network Accelerator
funding from the Public HealthInstitute's Center for Health
Leadership and Impact.
This episode is an interviewwith Gabrielle.
She's lived with addiction andhit rock bottom in the past, and
now she's sober and getting herlife back on track.
(01:30):
We're going to hear her storyand hear her perspective,
including one particular personwho unexpectedly treated her
with respect and helped tochange her life.
And next week, for the thirdpart of the series, we're going
to hear what it was like for hermother trying to help when
Gabrielle was in activeaddiction.
(01:50):
One quick point before we start.
Gabrielle talks about some ofher feelings and perspectives
while she was in activeaddiction during this episode,
and she makes a few commentsabout not being homeless, and I
just wanted to clarify what thismeant.
This was an expression of herself-stigma, her acknowledging
that she had a family and a homeand yet she was still relapsing
(02:13):
.
That being said, our unhousedpatients face a lot of stigma,
so just a reminder for all of usto pay attention to the stigma
that our unhoused patients facetoo.
And with that, here we go.
All right, well, good afternoon.
Why don't you start by tellingme who you are and where you
(02:34):
live right now?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Hello, I'm Gabrielle, I am 31 years old and I live in
Holster and we were going totalk about recovery today.
Okay, so my clean date isDecember 29th of 2022.
I unfortunately didn't do itthe easy way and I ended up in
jail on Christmas Eve of 2022.
(02:59):
The way I ended up there was mymom actually called the cops on
me because I took her car and Iwas doing really, really bad.
I had been addicted to fentanyl.
At that point I had relapsed.
I had probably been relapsedfor about at least a year and a
half to two years.
I hid it pretty well until Ijust couldn't hide it anymore.
(03:21):
It just got out of control.
So I ended up in jail and I hadcalled my mom from jail and I
just I was ready to stop andmake a change.
And she found a program for mewhich I was so blessed to be
able to go to a program calledTeen Challenge.
I had tried programs in thepast.
Unfortunately, like relapse isdefinitely a part of my story
(03:43):
before this chance that I wasgiven.
Teen Challenge is a one-yearprogram and before I went to
Teen Challenge, I did not knowthat.
So I had agreed with my mom togo to this program.
It was like as long as I canget out of jail thing in the
beginning, and then on the wayup, which was we were driving
from San Jose to Reading, I waslike, oh, how long is this
program?
And she's like, oh, it's toReading.
(04:04):
I was like, oh, how long isthis program?
And she's like, oh, it's a year.
And I was like, no, I'm notgoing, I can't do that.
And so I told her, well, I'llagree to three months, to just
right off the bat, and she'slike you're staying the year.
But in my head I was like, well, I'm just agreeing to three
months and the program.
I didn't really have arelationship with God, but
(04:25):
obviously that changedthroughout my stay there and so
I started in Redding and then Itransferred to the Yuba City
facility.
I was there for a majority ofthe year that I was in the
program and throughout that yearI think I just finally accepted
.
(04:46):
I think what I struggled withwith like my relapses before was
like wanting to be the sameperson minus the drugs, because
I was embarrassed, like I didn'twant to tell people like, oh,
I'm an addict in recovery, liketo me going to NA meetings and
saying that was easy, but likeon a day-to day basis with like
people who didn't struggle.
It was embarrassing for me andso I really found that teen
(05:10):
challenge.
I just realized like I couldn'tbe the same me.
The same me was the one whobrought the problems everywhere,
like the problems followed andI think, throughout that long
term stay which for me is whathelped the most, I think, is
that I was removed completelypretty much from society, like
no phone, no computer, no TV.
(05:30):
We barely listened to the radiofor the whole year.
I think that's what I neededand it helped remove that and
just be comfortable in my ownskin.
I was always worried about looks, how I looked, my hair being
done, stuff like that, and I docare about those things.
Don't get me wrong, I'm notgoing to act like I don't, but
it just wasn't as important.
The materialistic things justbecame very unimportant to me
(05:53):
because I had none of that whenI was there for the year and I
hardly wore makeup, hardly didmy hair.
We worked, we fundraised, wehit down to the basics of life
again and it really transformedthat.
So today, like I would say twoand a half years into this, my
life is very, very differentthan it was, I would say, three
years ago.
(06:13):
I have really greatrelationships.
I've always been a hard worker.
I'm just a hard worker in adifferent way.
But moving back to Hollister, Ifound myself in the beginning
being embarrassed again.
People asking like oh, where'dyou go?
You run into everybody at thegrocery store it's a small town.
And oh my gosh, I haven't seenyou in so long.
How are you?
(06:33):
And I'm like, oh, I'm actuallyreally good.
For the first time I could saythat like in mean it, and it's
so funny.
I completely forgot about thispodcast.
And yesterday at work I work ata restaurant you get really
close with people and they'resix days a week and you see a
lot of the same faces.
Like I said, it's a small town,so the same people come in all
the time and this one family isa husband and wife, but they
(06:57):
normally come in with their twosons.
Well, the wife always gets atonic water and I would never
ask I know, know better to ask,obviously because I'm in
recovery and sometimes that canoffend people.
I never asked because they'llsit at the bar, the husband will
be drinking and the wife gets atonic water.
And yesterday I don't even knowhow the conversation was
(07:18):
brought up but I said oh yeah,like I'm in recovery, I've been
clean for two and a half years.
And she was like so you'retelling me the whole time you've
been working here, we've bothbeen in recovery and neither of
us have talked about it.
And I was like, well, it's notthe first thing I talked about
at work, but with people that Iget like all my regular, regular
customers know that about me.
Well, she come to find outshe's been sober for five years.
(07:44):
When it happens at work, I feellike it's just an odd place for
it to happen at to meet peoplelike you.
But I'm the first one topromote our like non-alcoholic
beer.
You know what I mean?
Stuff like that.
And so that's how theconversations start with some
people is they'll ask if we havelike non-alcoholic beer.
I'm like, oh really.
I was like, oh yeah, I don'tdrink either.
Oh really, I was like oh yeah,I don't drink either.
(08:05):
And that's normally how theconversation gets started.
But last night it was just likevery special.
And then she told me likealcohol was her problem,
obviously, and I was like I'mnot afraid to admit it anymore
and I feel like the stigmaaround fentanyl the word.
When I was in the program wewould do fundraising and you go
door to door and you knock onthese people's door and you just
tell them their story and wewould me and the girls that I
(08:25):
was in the house with we wouldlike make a joke like are you
going to drop the F-bomb today?
Because it really is like anF-bomb.
Once you say that word fentanyl, it either like scares people
or it like intrigues people, orpeople just have so many
questions about it and like fromthe outside looking in, people
don't assume that about me.
And that's the first thing thatcouple said.
(08:46):
They were like I would neverhave guessed and I was like,
yeah, yeah, no, most peopledon't, but I think of opening
people's eyes to it couldliterally be like your next door
neighbor, the 60 year old womanliving right next door to you,
could be struggling, and soyesterday when I dropped the
F-bomb with her, they justcouldn't believe it.
(09:07):
I don't get like super into mystory, but I have overdosed I
think six times and that'soverdose, like actually taken to
the hospital overdosed, I'msure like I've had smaller ones
that I just don't remember.
Each overdose like gettingcloser and closer to not coming
back from oh, it gets a littleemotional.
Probably one of the worst oneswas my best friend found me
(09:32):
outside of her house.
I was just sitting on herdoorstep and I had taken the
blue pills and I wasunresponsive and she called my
mom.
She called my mom and my momshowed up and I was like
completely blue, no lifewhatsoever in my body, and her
and my younger sister, who Ilive with, saw me like that and
(09:54):
thank god for EMS here in thefire department here in
Hollister, because they saved mylife countless times
unfortunately.
So that was probably like themost traumatic.
I mean for myself, for myfamily.
But every time I overdosed itwas like this feeling of like
when you come back, like thisgasp for air and this bone
(10:17):
chilling coldness in your body.
Like I can't even explain thislevel of how cold you are.
But this last time I overdosedand then my mom called the cops
on me because I stole her carthe next day because I was
looking for more drugs.
You know what I mean.
So when I overdosed the lasttime though it's been about, I
think, six times, but this lasttime I didn't have that like gas
(10:41):
for air.
There's no recollection of theevents and normally like when
you come to, you come to andit's.
I never actually came to thistime, and I think that's what
like scared me the most Was thatI don't know, I don't remember
any of it, like I have norecollection of those events
whatsoever and to this day likeI've still tried to rack my
(11:04):
brain Like there's just like aperiod of three days that I just
don't remember at all, and so Ithink that's what was really
scary for me, because each timeI just got so much closer to
that point where I wasn't goingto come back from Mentally.
My poor brain should have nevercame back from.
There's an ER doctor here inHolster, dr Bogey.
He's so great, just treat youwith dignity and doesn't make
(11:31):
you feel worthless.
But unfortunately, when Ioverdosed the last time, it was
in San Jose and they justtreated me like I was just some
homeless off the street.
That, oh, it was just anotherone when I was going to be back
the next day, and that was justlike such an ugly feeling for my
mom to see that too, because Ido have people that care about
me.
I wasn't like a homeless on thestreet, like it shouldn't have
(11:53):
been her daughter.
You know what I mean.
Like I was a human being.
I was.
I was someone's daughter layingthere, someone's sister, and
that feeling of feeling so lowand less than because of like
choices that I made.
And so when I went to jail thenobviously like I was obviously
withdrawing really bad in jailand the CEOs just treating me
(12:15):
like I was just like nothing,nothing, like I was so sick,
like I could not even lift myhead up, just throwing up hot
and cold and just awful.
It was awful In jail, like Ithink they do three days on,
four days off type shifts.
So the whole time I was there Ihad this one CO during the day.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
CO being correctional officer.
Correctional officer yeah,Thank you.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
This one correctional officer during the day.
It was the same lady the wholetime I was there.
Well, the last day that I wasthere it must have been like a
shift change and it was adifferent lady and I was
supposed to go to court thefollowing day and this new
correctional officer the doorjust opened and I was like what
(13:02):
the heck?
I'm out of my mind.
I'm not even like relativelyokay, like I'm so foggy I can't
even freaking, think straight,can't talk, can't walk.
But the door just opened and Iwas like what the heck?
Like I've never really been injail like that, ever before, so
this is all like really new tome.
But I know a door shouldn'tjust open like that.
(13:28):
And so I like kind of like walktowards it.
And this tall lady I don't evenknow her name.
I would love to find out hername one day.
She called me by my last nameand said I have good news and I
have bad news.
And I was like, okay, can't bemuch worse than sitting in jail.
I'm already here, so I don'tknow how much worse it can get.
And she said Well, I'm alreadyhere, so I don't know how much
worse it can get.
And she said well, the goodnews is you're getting released,
get your stuff, you get to gohome.
(13:49):
And the bad news is, if you donot stop this, you're going to
die.
Because she had come andbrought breakfast earlier that
morning.
She's like what are you kicking?
Obviously she could tell I wasdying there.
And I said, oh, I told herfentanyl.
(14:09):
And she was like Dude, do youhave a mom that cares about you?
And I told her yeah, I said I'mgonna go to a program.
And she was like yeah, I hearthat a lot, but didn't make me
feel like she was judging me byany means, but I could only
imagine how much she hears that.
And so when she told me that Iwas getting released, when she
said I have good news and I havebad news, she had just said
you're going to die If you don'tstop now, like you're going to
(14:31):
die and I don't want to see youin the newspaper or anything.
I was like no, no, no, like I'mgoing to a program, I promise, I
promise, like I'm going to aprogram straight from here.
But can I call my mom year?
But can I call my mom?
Because I was not supposed togo to court till the next day
and my mom was all the way inHollister and I'm in jail in San
Jose and the plan was for me toget out of jail and go straight
to this program.
(14:52):
Well, their bed wasn't going tobe open until the next day and
I knew all this in my head.
So I'm like trying to get aholdof my mom and she was like, okay
, well, I need to call them andI need to go get you some stuff
at the house.
She was at work.
I need to go get you some stuffat the house so you could take
with you, because I have nothingwith me, obviously.
And I was like I don't evencare about that, I need you to
(15:13):
come now.
I need you to come right now.
If you could please drop whatyou're doing and come now.
If you do not get here by thetime, I'm being released, like
I'm scared of myself.
And so she came, and well, shedidn't come right away.
It was a pretty long drive.
So I had been released and I wassitting there waiting outside
of this jail and just so sick,so, so, so sick, and all I could
(15:38):
think about was I'm not goingto get through this.
There's no way I'm going to getthrough this.
So I'm sitting outside the jailand I keep asking to go back
inside, to use the phone, tokeep calling her to see where
she's at, because I'm about tojust take off right now.
I'm going to go find something.
I'll go to the program afterand she's like please, please,
just don't leave, I'm coming,I'm coming.
Which she always showed up forme.
(15:59):
She was always right therefighting by my side.
My sister, too, just never gaveup.
Thank God, thank God they justnever gave up.
But one thing I could say is mymom's never been ashamed of me,
my sister's never been ashamedto call me her sister, and to me
(16:26):
that's insane.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Let's unpack that a little bit.
So I don't know how much youknow about stigma, but
self-stigma is where peoplejudge themselves yeah and by
your tears I would guess thatthere's some self-stigma that
you lived through and yet yourfamily did not, yeah, judge you
in the same way.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Talk to me about that I think I've just really
struggled with.
I wasn't raised this way.
This wasn't how my life wassupposed to be.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
No one plans their life to go that direction.
I go to a lot of schools and Iask those kids what they want to
be when they grow up.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Nobody says kicking fentanyl in jail, yeah.
Yeah, and I think that's whatI've struggled with over the
years for so long.
I'm not ashamed anymore, butobviously that feeling's still
there.
Of course I mean I'm prettyhappy on a day-to-day basis, but
it's still there.
I see people I went to highschool with like super
(17:16):
successful and owning houses andhaving married with kids, and
that self-stigma oh, I should bethere, but I'm not, and that's
okay.
I finally, but I'm not, andthat's okay.
I finally come to the pointwhere it's.
That's okay.
That wasn't my path.
I made different choices and mychoices led me down a different
road, but I've always, like howyou said, circled back to being
(17:39):
so almost in awe that myfamily's never been ashamed and
I've carried that shame, nomatter how much they said we're
gonna get through this.
That shame and guilt, I don'tknow.
I mean two and a half years in,I don't know if it ever truly
like leaves.
I think you learn how to justdeal with it in a different way
(18:01):
and it's just not so prominent,because I don't live in that
shame and guilt every day whenit's talked about.
I think is when I revert backto those feelings more than
feeling like that on a dailybasis because I'm a productive
member of society.
I know who I am today, but youdo.
You get sucked back into that.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Gabrielle, do you use the term addict to describe?
Speaker 2 (18:22):
yourself.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I do.
I do it's interesting.
I was at an event and a womanwas speaking.
We were doing an aloxonetraining or narcan training.
Yeah and a woman, and this isnot her name.
She said hi everyone, I'm sarah, I'm an addict and I'm proud of
that.
Yeah because the person I amtoday is stronger than I ever
could have been.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Oh yeah, and I can identify with that.
So the first program I everwent to was a non 12 set program
.
They taught you like you're notan addict If you're not using
you're not an addict.
And it's funny that you bringthat up, because towards the end
of that program you like doamends with your family and so
you call them and my mom calledme an addict on the phone and I
(19:01):
absolutely lost it on her likeI'm not an addict, addict and
you are the one who sent me tothis program that teaches us,
like that I'm not an addict.
Like how dare you?
And obviously like, throughoutthe years of relapsing and
getting back into recovery, Istepped into the rooms of
Narcotics Anonymous.
I've met amazing people thereand so I 100% identify as an
(19:25):
addict, because that doesn'tjust describe me being an addict
to drugs and alcohol.
I am an addict in every way,shape and form, like it's in my
DNA.
I cannot do anything withoutfully throwing myself into it.
I don't know how to explain it,but work.
(19:47):
I work six days a week.
You know what I mean.
And anytime they need someoneto cover, I'm the first one to
cover.
So I just identify as an addictthrough and through.
I don't know how to do anything.
A little bit.
There's no like half steppingin my life.
I'm either like not interestedat all, or I'm full force balls
to the wall, going to doeverything, and that's like a
(20:08):
blessing and a curse, I think.
Well, said Because I think I dolike how the stigma around the
shame and the guilt of being anaddict there's also, like this
shame and the guilt of not beingthere for your family,
obviously, like during the timeI was using and then all the
times that I was away andtreatment and stuff like that.
And so I think now I really tryto overcompensate and I think
(20:33):
I'm finally stepping into thisplace in my life where I'm
seeing how much I overcompensateand I'm seeing how much it
wears me down almost in the sameway like drugs do, like you get
to that point where you're justlike exhausted all the time
because you're just trying toshow up for everybody and just
be the person for every otherperson and just not really
(20:55):
having anywhere to go yourselves.
I don't want to go to my mombecause I don't want her to
worry, like when I'm having arough day is she going to go,
relapse, and I've caused thatand I've accepted that.
I've caused that.
That's exactly where her mind'sgoing to go.
And so, over showing up forpeople, I don't know how to say
no.
That's where, like, the curseof it comes in is not knowing
(21:18):
how to say no, because I think Ihave that guilt of not being
there before because of makingpoor choices, and so I'm doing
so good now.
Why wouldn't I say yes?
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Do you think that's going to get better?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
I'm stepping into it, getting a little bit better.
I'm starting to say no, I'mreally tired today.
I'm not going to do that.
So I think I'm very, very, veryslowly learning to say no.
But I just recently realizedhow much of a problem it is.
I'm a people pleaser.
I just want everybody to getalong.
I don't want to fight withanybody.
I spent so many years arguingwith everybody.
(21:50):
You know what I mean Lying toeverybody that it's just.
I just want everybody to getalong and nobody to fight ever.
And that's just not reality.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I was going to ask you you mentioned stigma and
you're coming to terms with yourrecovery and realizing that
you've proven yourself inrecovery.
Yeah, I wanted to come back tothat female correctional officer
that you talked about, becauseshe was pretty straight with you
.
Oh, yeah, like she did notmince her words, no, but it
sounds like she didn't make youfeel judged.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
No, there was like so much empathy and compassion and
just my grandma says she's anangel.
She's like.
I bet you that lady is not evenreal and it was just an angel.
She always says that the waythis lady like made me feel and
I mean, we're two and a halfyears later and I will never
(22:39):
forget the way she made me feel.
She made me feel like a humanbeing and like she cared, and
like the night and day, comparedto the correctional officer
that was working before her whomade me feel like absolute scum
of the earth, like I had noright in the world.
No, nobody cared.
And the way that this ladyactually cared if I lived or
died and this lady has no ideawho I am Never seen me before,
(23:03):
that has never seen me after.
That Just truly was in herposition for a reason you know
what I mean which you don't hearabout often.
You don't hear about thatempathy and compassion in those
positions, unfortunately.
And so this lady just didn'tjudge me, saw me for who I was,
saw me for the problem that Ihad, but didn't see me as a
(23:27):
nobody because of it or somebodywho couldn't become somebody
after it.
It's like she saw something inme that at that point I couldn't
see in myself, because I don'tthink someone like that says
those words to someone, unlessthey're like dude, you could get
it together.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
So let me ask as a follow-up to that you mentioned
that she was compassionate withyou and she saw something in you
that you didn't.
As you've gotten into recovery,have you learned to be
compassionate with yourself?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yes, yes, I I'm a lot softer with myself in the
beginning.
I wasn't in the beginning likeI was still really really hard
on myself and I have good daysand I have bad days.
Today, as your position thatyou're in, I'm sure you've heard
of all these like sayings andna meanings, of course, but it's
like my worst day out here.
It doesn't even compare to mybest day, high Like.
(24:19):
It really doesn't Like myproblems today are so minute
compared to like my problemsback then.
It was like robbing Peter to payPaul and lying to Sally to like
just constantly, just like thischaotic life that I live today.
Like I have a schedule.
My problems today they're soeasy and so like when I get
overwhelmed I'll talk with mysister and then we'll sit there
(24:42):
and we're like, but we live areally good life today.
You know what I mean.
Like our life.
We couldn't have imagined ourlife being like this three years
ago.
If you would have asked eitherof us, we would have probably
laughed in your face.
I live a really good life todayand I think I think the
compassion with myself didn'tcome until, honestly, like until
I got back on my feet againfinancially, being productive
(25:06):
again, and like being able to dothings for myself again.
But once I was able to do thosethings, I was able to give
myself a little more of a break.
I mean, I still struggle withit, like I still think I need to
be the best at everything and Istill have something to prove
to everybody.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Have you forgiven yourself?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I think for a lot of things I have, I've never known
the answer to that question.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Ah, glad I asked.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, because I think , like you do forgive yourself,
I did a lot of work over theyear that I was in the program.
I did a lot of counseling, Idid a lot of praying and
journaling and I think I haveforgiven myself, but I don't
forget.
I don't forget, and so I thinkthe answer would be yes, but
(25:55):
there's always a but.
It's part of your story, youknow.
It doesn't affect me on aday-to-day basis.
Like I said earlier, like theshame and the guilt, it's not
prominent in my life on aday-to-day basis.
I know I'm not those thingsthat I was back then.
Today I know I'm not thosethings and so I think that,
right, there is the answer tothat.
(26:16):
I don't think if I didn'tforgive myself, I wouldn't know
the truth about who I am today.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Of course, that's a very good answer.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, but, like I said, you just don't forget.
And it still lives there andit's still.
You're the hardest on yourself.
You know what I mean.
You lived it.
You know what you've done.
I mean my, my family knows someof what I've done, but they
don't know everything and theydon't need to know everything.
How did your?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
family being supportive.
Help you when you were ready toget in the recovery.
Oh, I couldn't have done itwithout them.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
How so?
My sister, the one that I livewith and work with, she has a
two and a half year old.
So the ultimatum was she waspregnant.
So when I went to jail she waspregnant.
She was like eight monthspregnant and she's actually the
one who picked me up from theoverdose at the hospital the
night before I went to jail, butI just put her through the
(27:08):
ringer.
She's always stuck by my sidethrough all the years of
treatment centers, always comingto visit me.
She's a super soft spot for me.
She's never turned her back onme, my number one fan, always
there to pick me back up when Ifall and just cheers me on and
just supports me so much.
(27:31):
But the ultimatum was that if Ididn't figure it out, I wasn't
going to be allowed to be in herlife, which I never thought she
would say, but even more so herdaughter's life, because she
said that she's going to havesomeone else to worry about now
and she's just not willing tohave that a part of her
daughter's life.
She's not bringing her daughterinto that.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Wow, that must have been tough for your sister.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Oh, I couldn't imagine.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
So, so hard and I made a promise to her that I
would do this.
I mean in the beginning.
I did it for her, I think inthe beginning, getting yourself
back into getting clean again.
You don't do it for yourself.
Initially I think I was just ina really dark place and didn't
care about myself.
Obviously I don't think you'readdicted to fentanyl and have a
(28:19):
lot of care for yourself.
I know when it first starts.
You're not like that.
You know when you first try itthat first time that's not your
intention, but it just takes youdown this dark, dark place that
you feel like you're nevergoing to get out of.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
How was that conversation with your sister
when she told you you need toget help?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Well, I was on my way , I called her and I was like
hey, like I'm going to a program, and she just said it.
And she said it.
So, matter of factly, it waslike one of the hardest
conversations I've ever had, andI'm sure it's probably one of
the hardest conversations she'sever had.
But I told her I'm going to getclean and I'm going to stick to
it this time, and I've saidthat in the past.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
You've heard it so many times, of course, yeah,
yeah, yeah, you've said itbefore.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
And what does my mom always call it?
The tough love.
I think I really needed that inthat period.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Did she make you feel like she was judging you during
the conversation?
Speaker 2 (29:13):
She said I can't watch you hurt like this, I
can't watch you do this toyourself and I can't allow it to
be in my daughter's life.
She wasn't judging me.
She's never judged me, she'snever understood it either.
She just couldn't take itanymore.
I was killing myself.
Of course I was killing myselfand that is like her worst fear
is like her getting that call orwaking up to me not being here
(29:38):
anymore.
She always says I don't knowwhat I would do.
I mean, we're like thisabsolute best friend in the
whole wide world.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Gabrielle, what was the biggest motivator for you to
get sober?
Her baby?
Did anyone judging you ormaking you feel worse about
yourself make a difference inwanting to get sober?
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, of course that lights a fire under your butt.
I was in the program and one ofthe counselors at the time made
this comment that I wasn'tgoing to see it through, I
wasn't going to last the wholeyear.
And I was like, oh okay, youthink I can't do this?
And I've always been one ofthose people like, okay, I'm
going to prove you wrong, likejust for the point of you're not
(30:21):
going to put me down and say Ican't do something, because I
know I can do whatever I put myheart to.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Was it a judgmental comment, or he was challenging
you, or what was thatinteraction like?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I was really close with her.
Still, I just talked to her onthe phone the other day.
I think as someone else itcould have been taken as
judgmental, but because I knowher now and know her character,
it was a challenge.
I think she saw a lot ofherself in me and knew that's
something that got her to stickit through, was like someone
saying, oh no, you're not goingto do it and we're close today.
(30:53):
And when I graduated she shookmy hand at the ceremony or
whatever, and she was like Iknew you were going to do it.
Oh, wow, yeah.
So I was like, oh okay, so youdid that because you were
pushing me.
And she pushed me throughout mywhole program oh my gosh.
And she was the director of thecenter that I was at.
And, oh my gosh, this ladypushed me past my limits some
(31:13):
days, but she always told meexactly like it was, didn't
sugarcoat it, she had beenthrough it herself and so she
was speaking from experience.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
So it sounds like it was less judgment and more
challenging.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
You mentioned the correctional officer.
The first one made you justfeel horrible.
Did that motivate you at all?
Speaker 2 (31:35):
No, I mean, it sounds like it just hurt it just hurt.
It just makes it less than Imean.
It obviously had an effectbecause I compare the two
correctional officers soobviously there was an effect
there.
But it just hurt At that point.
After being in and out oftreatment centers and stuff over
the years you just get used topeople treating you like that,
unfortunately.
I know it shouldn't be likethat.
Some people just are gonnatreat you like that and that's
(31:57):
okay.
That's a them problem, not a meproblem did you know that at
the time?
if I did, I didn't recognize itas that at the time.
Okay, I just thought, oh mygosh, this lady is super
miserable.
Like why is she doing this job?
This is the people that shechose to work with.
You know what I mean.
(32:17):
But I think now, as a differentperson today, who knows what she
was going through?
Who knows if her sister was anaddict and it brought something
up for her or her mom?
You know what I mean.
Who knows?
Maybe she was just having a badweek?
I mean, I pray to God shedoesn't treat everybody that
walks through there like that,because I think it could be
(32:39):
detrimental to some people.
But I think that I'm one of thefortunate ones who has the
support of my family and of thepeople around me who love me so
much that someone like that'sopinion doesn't weigh compared
to the people who love me andsupport me's opinion.
But I couldn't imagine likesomeone making me feel like that
and not having the people wholove me and support me as
opinion.
But I couldn't imagine likesomeone making me feel like that
and not having the peoplebehind me.
(33:01):
I wouldn't even know what thatwould be like.
I just have my family support.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Gabrielle, tell me, if someone walked into your
restaurant next week and said,hey, I'm trying to get sober, do
you know anywhere I can go?
What sort of language would youuse with them?
How would you talk to them?
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Well, I would sit down.
It wouldn't just be like inpassing, like bringing someone
to ranch.
I would sit down and just Ithink it would be like I know
where you're at, you're notalone with where you're at, I've
been exactly where you are andthere's so many avenues nowadays
that you can take to get better.
(33:41):
Obviously, like my number onething would be to teen challenge
, because that's the place thatworked for me, but I know that
that's not the only option andthat's not a one size fits all.
Obviously, no program is.
I've tried numerous differenttypes of programs and not
everything works for everybody,but I I would say that to
(34:01):
someone, this is what worked forme.
But there's so many options, somany different options that you
could take.
There's conscious recovery,there's the 12 steps.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
There's just so many different avenues to take that
could be more fitting forsomeone else and I'm assuming I
know the answer to this question, but I'm just gonna ask it
anyways.
I'm assuming you, as you walkedinto that conversation, would
know that that person has shameand guilt.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, would you tryto address it?
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I think it would just depend on, like, the person and
how the conversation was going,if I knew them or if it was
just like around a person comingin, because I know like
addressing it is just so muchmore than surface level.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Not something that I could like really dig into in
that space, and so I don't knowthat I would want to open up
that wound in that space, and soI don't know that I would want
to open up that wound in thatspace.
I would definitely say, hey,can we meet later where we could
actually like figure somethingout and start unpacking some of
this and seeing how I can helpyou.
But I just think it's like verysituational and I don't know
(35:10):
that the restaurant would belike a super safe space, of
course, and I would never likewant to just be like oh hey, I
got to go run this food reallyfast, stop crying really quick,
so I can.
Oh, like I would never wantsomeone to feel like that.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
So what I'm hearing from you is first introduction
to the conversation would justbe to provide support and
actually digging intoself-stigma and guilt.
Probably a deeper conversation,Is that right?
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah, definitely.
I think self-stigma is just alot deeper than people.
I think self-stigma is just alot deeper than people.
Even before you asking thesequestions, I don't think I
realized how deep it goes.
There's a lot there and youdon't get to that point
overnight.
It could be years, it could beweeks, it could be months and
you just don't know until youactually start talking to
(35:55):
someone.
For me this is 10 plus yearsstruggling with this and just
being on the other side of itnow for the first time for this
amount of time, I've had boutsof clean time in the past, but
never this successful, neverthis long, obviously.
But being asked, I guess I'venever been asked about the self
(36:17):
stigma.
It's always just stigma ofbeing like an addict, like
surrounding other people, howother people see it.
The self, I think, is just likesomething that really needs to
be like study.
So much that goes into it.
Do you still do 12 step work?
I don't.
I don't.
Once in a while, like I'll go toa meeting here in Hollister.
(36:39):
A few months ago I actuallywent with a friend who I
actually introduced her to 12steps, like years ago when she
was struggling and I was cleanat the time, and now she's like
a real big part of the communityhere and I was like, oh, like I
.
I haven't wanted to go to ameeting here in Hollister
because of the shame and theguilt.
(37:00):
So I was at the Sober Living,the Sun Street Sober Living,
here in Hollister, and Iactually overdosed there a few
years ago 2019, I think and Ihaven't returned to the rooms
here in Hollister since then,just because everybody knew what
happened.
I really didn't returned to therooms here in Holster since
then, just because everybodyknew what happened.
I really didn't want to runinto anybody who knew or who was
(37:23):
there at the house during thattime.
And so finally, one day I waslike you know what?
I'm just going to go.
I needed to be around peoplelike me, people who understood
me.
I was having a bad day.
And so I reached out to myfriend and she's like yeah, meet
me there.
And, sure enough, one of theladies who was at the house was
at the meeting.
She started crying when she sawme.
(37:43):
She was like I thought you died.
I never saw you again afterthat day because I went to a
program and then left town againand she thought I passed away.
So that was hard.
You just don't realize how itaffects people around you,
people who you would never evenexpect that it affected.
So, like once in a while, likeI'll go to a 12-step meeting.
(38:05):
The program, like I said, Iwent to, was faith-based.
It wasn't 12-step, so I gotreally into church.
I do a lot of like onlinechurches.
I work six days a week now, soit's harder.
And I help my sister with herbaby.
We six days a week now, so it'sharder and I help my sister
with her baby.
We work opposite shifts, sowhen I'm not at work I have the
(38:25):
baby and she's at work.
But there's a church in YubaCity that I watch online a lot.
I just have a really closeconnection there and obviously I
can't go.
It's in Yuba City, of course,and then I have a pastor.
So when I was in the program Iwas like my second day there.
They played her sermon on the TVmy second night and her name is
Sarah Jakes Roberts.
Her dad is TD Jakes.
(38:45):
He's like a real big timepastor.
They played this sermon calledGirl Get Up.
I'll never forget it Like I'velistened to it millions of times
since then and it was just likeexactly what I needed to hear
in that moment.
So I listened to a lot of herstuff.
I actually have my sister likelistening to her right now too,
which is really cool.
So I don't really do likerecovery meetings, but I do a
(39:07):
lot of faith-based stuff andthen I just keep in contact with
my friends that I went throughthe program with or who are
working at Teen Challenge.
I keep in like really closecontact with them who are
working at Team Challenge.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I keep in really close contact with them.
So, gabrielle, tell me, whenyou look back and you think
about feeling judged or feelingput down when you approach
someone who's trying to getsober themselves, is there
anything you do specifically toavoid them feeling that way?
Speaker 2 (39:38):
I think just showing love when someone's unlovable my
mom's told me that I've beenvery unlovable, or no.
I guess her words are I willalways love you, but I've not
always liked you.
The kindness and compassionthat I was shown by that CEO, I
would aspire to show that tosomebody else, because I know
that that lady left a mark on meand I would never want to leave
(40:02):
a negative mark on someone.
I would only want them to thinkback and be like wow, that
person helped change my life.
I think that would be.
The biggest thing is justgetting down to their level.
Without actually getting downto their level.
You know where that level is.
It's really letting someoneknow that there is a way out.
I think when you're there, youjust don't think there's any way
(40:25):
out and so just really likereiterating that you can get out
of there, like you don't haveto stay there.
It doesn't matter what otherpeople think.
If you know in your heart thatthat's not the life you want,
you can do it.
You just have to have thatwillpower to just say no, that
you just don't want to live likethat anymore.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Our core values in our addiction medicine practice
are respect and kindness.
And I'm always surprised.
My patients will come in aftera relapse and they've got the
negative body posture andthey're feeling horrible.
And I'll just say, hey, it'snice to see you, yeah, and they
just seem so off guard.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yeah, just happy to see you.
Yeah, cause it could just somuch so fast, not be the case.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Well said.
And particularly in the era offentanyl it is.
Oh, it's playing with fire.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
It's literally minute to minute.
I've had so many people be likedude, I'm just glad that you're
still here, cause it.
I mean I, like I said, I've hadso many close calls and it's
just just showing kindness tosomeone.
It doesn't take much likebuying someone a water, like a
homeless guy.
Somebody out there loves youand you're not alone.
(41:35):
You do feel so alone sometimes,but there's so many people who,
especially right now, like I'mseeing so much like on TikTok,
of people like getting cleanfrom fentanyl.
There's so many people outthere just like you and you
don't have to do it alone, whichis so cool.
Nowadays it's literally like aclick of a finger.
You don't have to be alone.
(41:56):
You could jump on a meeting orget in touch with people so
easily now.
So it's just showing kindnessand treating humans like humans.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Well said.
Well, that is a beautifulmessage to end on, Gabrielle.
Congratulations on two and ahalf years of recovery.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Thank you.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
To those healthcare providers out there treating
patients with addiction you'redoing life-saving work and thank
you for what you do Foreveryone else tuning in.
Thank you for taking the timeto learn about addiction.
It's a fight we cannot winwithout awareness and action.
There's still so much we can doto improve how addiction is
treated.
Together, we can make it happen.
(42:37):
Thanks for listening andremember treating addiction is
treated Together we can make ithappen.
Thanks for listening andremember treating addiction
saves lives.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.