September 22, 2025 • 43 mins
This episode is the third episode of a four part series on stigma.
This episode is done in collaboration with Central Coast Overdose Prevention (CCODP) and was made possible by California Overdose Prevention Network Accelerator funding from the Public Health Institute's Center for Health Leadership and Impact.
In this episode, Wendy Solorio shares her raw, emotional journey as a mother supporting her daughter Gabrielle through addiction and into recovery, highlighting the often-overlooked impact on families and caregivers.
• First recognizing her daughter's addiction during high school while dealing with guilt and shame as a parent
• Reaching emotional breaking points while preparing for the worst possible outcomes
• Navigating the healthcare system and waiting for treatment beds during crisis moments
• Facing financial devastation with treatment costs of $40,000 and maxing out multiple credit cards
• Experiencing stigma from coworkers, friends, and even law enforcement
• Dealing with the trauma that remains even after 2.5 years of her daughter's sobriety
• Finding support through therapy, medication, and select family members
• Advocating for better education among first responders and healthcare providers
• Emphasizing the critical role of substance use navigators in emergency departments
• Offering advice to other parents: "Care for the caregiver, never stop self-educating, have tough conversations"
To contact Dr. Grover: ammadeeasy@fastmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Addiction Medicine Made Easy
Podcast.
Hey there, I'm Dr Casey Grover,an addiction medicine doctor
based on California's CentralCoast.
(00:22):
For 14 years I worked in theemergency department seeing
countless patients strugglingwith addiction.
Now I'm on the other side ofthe fight, helping people
rebuild their lives when drugsand alcohol take control.
Thanks for tuning in.
Let's get started.
Today's episode is the thirdepisode of a four-part series on
(00:45):
stigma, specifically the stigmathat people with addiction and
mental health conditions faceand how it affects them and
their families, and I have togive two shout-outs before we
start.
This episode is done incollaboration with Central Coast
Overdose Prevention, which is anonprofit I helped found here
(01:07):
on the Central Coast ofCalifornia focusing on
advocating for addictiontreatment, and this podcast was
made possible by CaliforniaOverdose Prevention Network
Accelerator funding from thePublic Health Institute's Center
for Health Leadership andImpact.
This episode is an interviewwith Wendy.
(01:27):
Do you remember the episodefrom last week where we talked
with Gabrielle and how sheconquered her addiction?
Well, wendy is Gabrielle'smother.
Wendy and Gabrielle and, by theway, gabrielle also goes by
Gabby Wendy and Gabrielle havebeen so brave to share their
intertwined life stories asmother and daughter around
(01:48):
Gabby's addiction, and today weare going to hear what it was
like for Wendy as the parent ofsomeone living with addiction
and how she faced stigma too.
A few clarifications Wendymentions Natividad, that's the
county hospital here in MontereyCounty, and also Wendy talks
about substance use navigators.
(02:09):
Substance use navigators, alsoknown as SONs, are healthcare
providers, often in emergencydepartments, who connect
patients with addiction andsubstance use to treatment.
We are very lucky to have themhere in all of our emergency
departments in Monterey Countyand we to have them here in all
of our emergency departments inMonterey County, and we also
have them in San Benito Countywhere Wendy and Gabrielle live.
(02:31):
And with that, here we go.
All right, wendy.
Well, good morning.
I'm so glad to have you join metoday, and I had just spoken to
your daughter about herexperience getting into recovery
and your support for her.
Tell me about who you are andwhere you live and what you do.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
So my name is Wendy Solorio and I am Gabby's mom as
well, as I have a son who's 35and a daughter who's 24.
I live here in Hollister.
I work for the County of SanBenito.
I've been there 17 years as achild support.
Specialist supervisor is mycurrent role.
In that role I've done a lot ofoutreach into the county, jails
(03:12):
, the high school, thecontinuation high school and,
yeah, I live on my parents'property and just trying to
enjoy this next phase of my life, my next season, trying to
enjoy this next phase of my life, my next season.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
So Gabrielle told me her story and how you supported
her through her journey, and wecongratulated her on two and a
half years of sobriety.
When did you realize that yourdaughter had a problem with
addiction?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I realized I knew, but I didn't want to know.
So that's how it started, andit started very early on.
I think she was in her freshmanyear of high school and she got
dropped off from a party.
She was supposed to be at herdad's for that weekend.
Immediately.
That was my first solidconfirmation and I immediately
(04:02):
jumped on and started lookingfor resources for her.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
How did you feel in terms of how you had done as a
parent up to that time?
Was there guilt, was thereworry, was there fear?
What was that moment like ofrealizing your daughter had a
problem?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
There was all of the above A lot of guilt, a lot of
shame.
We'd gone through a very nastydivorce.
She really had to step up at ayoung age and co-parent her
little sister with me.
It was a lot of responsibility.
She's an absolutely brilliantperson.
She's so smart and she's gotsuch a good heart, and so I
(04:40):
think the addiction really beganwith just like a typical coping
mechanism.
I think it started with herpeers and then became a regular
habit of coping with stress andverbal abuse, physical abuse
that she experienced.
Were you pretty hard on yourselfduring that time I was very
(05:01):
hard on myself and then later Ijust lost my mind.
So I worked really hard torebuild my career after my
divorce and so I was in aleadership role within the
county, which is very small.
It's a really close knit.
Everyone knows each other.
So when the addiction wasreally taking its hold on her,
(05:22):
it was very difficult tonavigate keeping my professional
face as well as keeping my momface, and so that made me very
angry.
I took it really personalalmost.
I think I even said one time toher after one of her many
overdoses why are you doing thisto me?
(05:42):
Because I just took it sopersonal.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
If people asked you how your daughter was doing
around that time, what was youranswer?
Hanging in there, when did you,if ever, get to a point where
you could be open aboutGabrielle's struggles with
addiction?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I think it was after her I wouldn't say her last
overdose.
It was pre pandemic.
So that's how I gaugeeverything these days.
And Chris Mangano, who's theemergency operations manager
here, was a close friend withMary the pharmacist and they
invited me to speak at a townhall, at the vets hall here, and
(06:24):
I think that's the first timewith a lot of my coworkers,
fellow leadership, advancedleadership in the room, that I
really took the opportunity.
It just came out, it juststarted bubbling out.
I couldn't stop talking aboutit.
There was a lot of criticismtowards me during that time
(06:47):
after, but there was so much, somuch, thank you.
It's like an elephant in theroom.
It was just a really raw,really raw story and
unfortunately it was a truestory, it was not fiction.
So I really wanted to get thatacross, what it was like having
to balance it and I thought wewere done at that time.
(07:07):
I thought we were done, Ithought she was clean, we were
on our way to our next wonderfulseason and I just still was so
naive to these drugs and thenworse drugs had on her and the
more she used, the more sheneeded and then she would have
to get to something else.
So I did a lot of self-educationjust because there weren't any
(07:29):
resources.
I mean I, after the incidentwith the alcohol thing the first
incident I ended up having herand this is just a terrible
story.
I enrolled her in a substanceabuse group at Behavioral Health
.
Her counselor was amazing.
His name was Tony Adamo I thinkhe's retired now but he was
(07:49):
amazing.
But in this group she was theonly one there that wasn't court
ordered to be there and she wasthe only one there for alcohol
and marijuana usage.
So this introduced her to awhole other demographic of peers
.
I always think like, if I couldput my thumb on going back,
(08:13):
that was a turning point for herfrom turning from bad to much
worse, because then she hadsomething in common with a
really rough demographic.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
One of the things we struggle with people with
addiction is that we want tohelp them and sometimes we need
to hold them accountable.
We have to push them whenthey're not ready and sometimes
we need to accommodate them.
They're struggling and theyneed the extra help, and no one
on planet earth knows thatbalance whether to give more
carrot or give more stick, ifyou will.
(08:45):
I'm curious what have youlearned, given your lived
experience with your daughter'saddiction, in terms of when to
push and use hard love versuswhen to accommodate and really
try to support?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I can't agree more that there's no balance.
I don't think there was a point.
I think it was a level ofexhaustion that I just couldn't
do it anymore.
So it was a very difficult time.
She was worse than she'd everbeen and I, just I was done.
I, physically and emotionally,was at a severe breaking point
(09:22):
and I knew I couldn't break.
I just knew I couldn't break.
I'd been broken before and Ifelt that darkness and I just
said I can't do this anymore.
It almost became intentional.
If someone else was getting toomuch attention, I think she was
self-sabotaging it was justreally hard.
(09:44):
But I would never be able toexplain to anyone about when to
draw the line.
I would go to NA meetings orNaranon meetings over in
Monterey, so no one would knowwho I was.
So I could speak freely.
My mom would come with me andyou hear it all.
You hear about people enabling,enabling, enabling I hate that
word enabling, accommodating,supporting.
(10:06):
And then you hear the toughlove stories.
Watched a lot of movies onaddiction.
Thank god it's really coming tolight.
I think it's four good days, oroh, it's a great movie.
Oh, my god, I bought it.
I mean, it's like on my playall the time.
Beautiful boy, just differentstyles of what you have to do If
(10:27):
there's no right or wronganswer.
It came to a point where shewas going to die.
She was going to die and I hadto put my armor on to deal with
her death, not her life anymore,she was going to die.
So, however, I had to do that.
(10:47):
That was my next season.
Was I refer to my life a lotabout before and afters.
They're just like definitelylines in the sand about before
this, after this, and that dayin December was the before and
the after.
That was it, and I won't evencall it a line in the sand, I
(11:08):
will call it a line in thecement it was just cemented in.
I couldn't break, I couldn'tbreak.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
What I heard from you .
It was less about beingintentional as to when to be
pushing accountability versusbeing accommodating, and more
about surviving.
Do I have that right?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yes, that's correct.
Survival, Survival.
The ringtone on my phone isstill just keep swimming from
the Finding Nemo movie.
Just keep swimming, get up.
Tomorrow's a new day.
Tonight's really rough.
There were days I would justget on my knees at the end of my
bed and just pray to whateverwas out there.
(11:46):
It was brutal.
My heart was broken.
Some of it still is verycracked, it's just, it will
never heal.
Anytime a family member callson my phone, I immediately go to
.
Something happened, not justwith her now, but with something
like oh no, not now.
Oh no, what happened?
(12:07):
Oh this, oh that there's justso much trauma triggering trauma
.
I misplace a $5 bill in mypurse and I immediately go to oh
no, I know I had a $5 bill hereand then I'll find it and I'll
be like you're so stupid, butyou're not, because there were
many missings $5 bills.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Who was your support network when your daughter was
still in her active addiction?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
My parents but my dad is like the weakest link with
her.
They have a very uniquerelationship.
My mom is the source ofstrength.
She just was always there, butshe would be influenced.
She called it getting on mywhite horse and rescuing her.
(12:51):
There you go, getting on yourwhite horse again.
So then I shut down fromtelling her everything because I
felt guilt and shame about that.
Actually, my boss at work shewas so supportive, she really
helped me navigate through theprofessional slash.
Personal, my cousin, ChrisMangano.
(13:12):
Oh my gosh.
It got to the point where I wasin therapy and my psychiatrist
would tell me you need to turnyour ringer off at night and you
need to turn your phone over soyou're not stimulated by the
light.
And I said but what if she diesand they can't get ahold of me?
And he said she'll be dead inthe morning.
And that was the hardest thingto do, that I still do it to
(13:35):
this day.
I turn my ringer off at nightand I turn my phone over so I'm
not stimulated by light.
And one morning I woke up and Ihad a missed call from Chris at
like three o'clock, fouro'clock, Gabby was in sober,
living here in Hollister, andshe'd gotten a call.
She'd heard on her radiocommunication that someone
(13:57):
matching her age descriptors andthe street she was living on
had overdosed, and so I knew Imade a cup of coffee and I
picked up the phone to call herand I just said is she alive?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
And she said barely, and that was just how we lived
for a long time.
You said you got some mentalhealth services.
What was that like?
It was terrible.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
So behavioral health here they don't really take
private insurance, which is odd.
They're pretty much Medi-Calbased.
And you have to go through a ohgosh, it's like this, what do
they call it?
Like an intake, extensiveintake thing.
And I didn't want to go throughintake.
(14:41):
I been going through this forso long, I wanted to get to it.
So right when I was getting tothe heart of it I had switched
over to Kaiser specifically forthe purpose of getting
continuing therapy services andgetting my medication.
I had a ton of anxiety, a tonof depression.
(15:01):
I still do.
And that's where I found, likea consistent therapist,
behavioral health.
Here, as you'll come to know,if you don't already, we do a
lot of interning, we do a lot ofshort timers.
So you start with someone, thenyou go and they're not there
that day, so someone else fillsin.
Well, when you're as raw as itraw gets, it's really
(15:23):
discouraging.
So I was able to get probablythree good months of rock solid
therapy not someone justreflectively listening, but
therapy and get on, fortunatelythe right combination of
medications to let me be able tofunction, and so that piece of
(15:46):
it was amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
So it sounds like a rocky start, but ultimately it
proved to be part of yoursupport network, as you were
supporting your daughter gettingsober it was my safe place.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I didn't have to worry about hurting anybody's
feelings.
I would go once a week and Iwould leave all my yuck there,
and that was invigorating.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
How many parents do you think have been in your
position but don't have accessto mental health services?
From what you've experienced,oh, I think 90%.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
And if they do have access they don't have the means
, they don't have the insurance,they can't take off work.
I can imagine that a lot ofthem are single parents like
myself who every hour you misswork, you're losing money or
losing sick leave.
17 years at the county I haveno sick leave.
Almost all of my sick leave hasgone to either taking care of
(16:41):
her when she's been in herplaces or taking care of me as a
result of her being in herplaces.
Days and days waiting for a bed, days and days in the hospital,
days and days transporting.
She's gone as far up asAnderson Tuolumne County.
She's gone everywhere and soit's just a lot.
(17:04):
Then I break on my way home andthen I need like three days to
recover just from the adrenalineof lack of sleep, lack of
everything.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
How much financially did her addiction affect you?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
My parents actually paid for her first.
I'm sure you're familiar withCherie.
Cherie Ashley, cherie Navarettewent to school with my oldest
son and so she's a face ofrecovery in our community.
So she was the first person Ireached out to.
Now I knew what I knew and myparents.
She came out and we exploredprograms and insurance.
(17:41):
Thank God my ex-husband hadreally great insurance with the
Teamsters.
So she went to a facility overin Watsonville in Santa Cruz
County.
It was very expensive and theway Cherie put it to us is you
can try to get this right thefirst time You're going to spend
it here or you're going tospend it on a funeral.
If you have the means, get herin the best facility you can and
(18:05):
let's hope that one time sticks.
That was $20,000 out of pocket.
The program itself was $40,000,but it was a 90-day program
minimum 90 days.
Which was a selling point forus is that I've never thought 30
days is enough.
I mean I can tell, like herbrain, how it's working and 30
(18:27):
days is just a ridiculousminimum, ridiculous minimum.
So what it did take a toll onme was I put all our hotels on
credit cards, specifically whenshe was up north Anderson Teen
Challenge.
She'd get a weekend pass.
As she earned weekend passes, Iopened up a new credit card,
(18:49):
maxed it out.
Opened up a new credit card,maxed it out.
Open up a new credit card, maxit out.
It's basically a bare bonesprogram and so having to support
her clothing needs, her shampooconditioner, doing it for me
and doing it for them, trying tocontribute as much as I could
for the house, because therewere girls there that had really
(19:11):
had nothing, women there wholiterally they pulled out from
under an underpass, so I wasalways trying to help.
I would just say that I'veexhausted.
It'll take me probably anotherdecade, as long as it took us to
get here.
It'll take me that long to getout of the debt that I've
(19:31):
incurred.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Do you and your daughter ever talk about that?
No, what do you think theconversation would be like?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I don't know.
So I was thinking about thatthis morning because she's very
financially stable right now andI don't really expect anything
in return.
And I don't really expectanything in return.
But I think that she stole alot of money for my parents as
well, because my dad is oldfashioned and keeps cash, for
whatever reason, in his sockdrawer, and so I thought might
(20:01):
be a really good point in timewhere she could say I'm going to
give you guys $100 a week.
We're not good at toughconversations.
I'm scared to death of toughconversations.
Scared to death in the literalterm, scared to death Like I'll
suck it up, I will figure it out.
She's super generous with menow, like she surprises me with,
(20:22):
like a gift certificate or toget my nails done out of the
blue.
Those things mean so much thatI just want to bury it.
I just don't want to go backthere.
I'm definitely afraid of whatthat might do Trigger something
in her.
So yeah, it's tough, it's very,very tough.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Were you afraid of difficult conversations before
her addiction?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Always, is it worse now oh yeah, oh yeah, it's 10
times worse now.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, it's 10 timesworse now now.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
I had spoken with gabrielle yesterday about stigma
and judgment and shame.
Did you notice that peopletreated your daughter
differently once that she hadaddiction?
Yes, how so?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Well, I had co-workers that had children
that were in the same age group.
I would say, and they wouldjust always I don't know the way
they treated her just changed.
She showed up at my work.
We went through periods becauseof the person that she was in a
romantic relationship with.
(21:31):
That was a horrible, horribleperson where she'd alienate me.
I wasn't allowed to be in herlife, and so she would.
At the worst of times she wouldshow up at my work or be waiting
by my car or come into myoffice and I felt like that was
always like oh, she's on SkidRow again, or I would overhear
(21:51):
the conversations.
They wouldn't necessarily comeout and say hello to her.
They would say let me get yourmom.
They wouldn't bring her intothe back and I know she picked
up on those things.
It wasn't something I couldreally address because I really
didn't blame them.
I mean my family, not myimmediate family, my extended
(22:11):
family has always been veryworried about perception.
So you know she'd show uplooking really rough and it was
always the comparison alwayswell, she doesn't look like
she's doing good, so they wouldtreat her like she wasn't doing
(22:32):
good.
I don't think she even knew shedidn't look like she was doing
good, so I think she took it.
I don't know, it was superpainful, it was just super
painful.
So then we just started doingour own thing.
So I absorbed it all, which washard.
It was really hard.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Did people treat you differently once they found out
that your daughter had addiction?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Absolutely.
Especially when I became morevocal about the epidemic here, I
felt like they felt sorry forme and I didn't feel sorry for
myself.
I never once said woe is me andI didn't feel sorry for myself.
I never once said woe is me.
I worked with or sat inmeetings with people that were
immediately involved.
(23:17):
In her emergency response care,the deputy district attorney who
then became my courtcommissioner that I'm in court
with at breaks would just sayhow's Gabby, how's your daughter
doing?
And our presiding judge knewI'd lost some really good friend
groups what I thought were goodfriends because I learned that
they weren't being transparentwith me and I thought I was
(23:40):
being wordly transparent andasking for feedback, whether it
be negative or positive, or whatdo you think I should do next,
or how do you think I shouldhandle this, or I'm feeling like
this or I'm feeling like thatand to learn that they would
turn around and talk about whatI wasn't doing or what I wasn't
doing right, like they were anexpert on the subject.
(24:01):
So I just would shut down, Iwould just not talk about it,
which I think probably inhindsight, is the worst thing
you could do.
The biggest thing was when Iwas at that town hall.
House Speaker Robert Revis wasthe counselor at our school,
high school, and he was myyoungest daughter's school
counselor and he was on theBoard of Supervisors at that
(24:24):
time.
So he was there representingthe Board of Supervisors.
When he was asked a question,he spoke before I did and he
basically said these kids aremaking these choices that are
life-threatening, they'rechoosing to buy these drugs that
they know are potentiallylethal.
(24:48):
And I, when I got up there inpublic in front of the group,
just said I respectfullydisagree.
I absolutely appreciate thatthat may be your opinion, but
they don't go out and choose tobuy drugs laced with fentanyl.
This isn't something theydecide.
(25:08):
Getting ready, doing their hairon a Friday night, going, okay,
let's rock and roll tonight.
The other frustrating piece wasthe law enforcement piece a bit.
So I became like a renegade atone point.
I think I told you I lost mymind.
So one of the times that shewas committed I had her placed
on a hold for two hours and Iwas able to get access to her
(25:32):
phone and I had a amazingsheriff's deputy.
His name was Matt Avila.
He's now with Georgia police.
He was so compassionate and sokind.
He came and went through herphone to try to figure out like
where it was coming from.
She had overdosed twice in likea 12-hour period and he just
said, yep, yep, it's the usualplayers.
(25:54):
And I thought so you know wherethis is happening and you're
not doing anything about it.
And he's like well, our handsare tied, they really want the
higher ups.
And I was just like I can'tbelieve this.
My daughter has died twice in12 hours and you know who's
killing her and you can't doanything about it.
(26:14):
So then I would go on with thatand then have to really step
back Because I would get myhands slapped.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
I guess you could say Did you have any good
interactions with lawenforcement after that?
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Oh, I did, I did.
She was well known for a longtime and I work closely with law
enforcement.
Like I said, I go into thejails, so everyone knew I was
her mom.
I get oh, you're Gabby's mom.
That's where I would get.
I wouldn't get.
Oh, hi, wendy, how are you?
Oh, you're Gabby's mom.
Oh, this is Gabby's mom.
Gabby wink, wink and I thoughthow dare you?
(27:11):
And I thought how dare you?
Yes, I am Gabby's mom and I'mproud to be Gabby's mom.
Gabby's overcome a lot.
So I feel like the oldergeneration let's go get him.
But a more protect and serve.
And that is huge.
Hollister police hasn't beenthat way.
I don't have a lot ofinteraction with them.
We live in the country, so allof our interaction was basically
(27:32):
with the sheriff's office andknowing oh, it's Gabby again.
Or I did have one unrelatedinteraction with my best
friend's son who overdosed onfentanyl years later and that
group of officers was notcompassionate at all.
I remember saying did heaspirate?
They were having a hard timebringing him back.
(27:53):
They were working on him.
Did he aspirate and they go?
Hard time bringing him back.
They were working on him.
Did he aspirate and they go.
You really don't need to knowthat.
I was his emergency contact andI said, well, I really do,
because my daughter aspiratedand they said it wouldn't turn
into anything.
And it turned into pneumoniaand she almost died.
And then they weren't eveneducated enough to know that
after so many doses of Narcanthey pop up, and so he had had a
(28:17):
criminal history.
So I understood later but hepopped up and they immediately
threw him in handcuffs that hewas like assaulting them, and
I'm like he's not assaulting you, he's popping up.
What do you mean?
He's popping up and I'm likehow do you not know this?
How do you not know this?
It was infuriating, infuriating.
I literally got in thesergeant's face and I said I
(28:44):
think you need someone to cometeach you guys about these
situations.
So that's always been fun.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Not so much, but you know.
So.
Wendy Gabrielle is now two anda half years sober.
I congratulated her when Ispoke to her.
How is it?
Speaker 2 (29:00):
now.
She's so amazing she's I stillhold back.
I love her with all of my heart.
I mean from my toenails to myhair, but I still hold back.
I cannot make myself vulnerableto that level.
I can't get there, but she'samazing.
She's the best aunt in theworld.
My younger daughter has atwo-year-old and they all live
(29:23):
together and she'sself-sufficient.
She's self-supporting, but,yeah, it's wonderful to have her
home, but it's scary as well tohave her home.
I was not supportive of hermoving back here.
I thought she needed a newplayground, a new demographic,
and I thought she had found thatin Tuolumne.
Tuolumne was, I mean, has areally good faith-based
(29:45):
community that she reallyinserted herself in and was
received so well.
But you know I can't make thosedecisions for her.
I basically told her I don'tsupport this at all.
I'll support your decision, butyou know I can't make those
decisions for her.
I basically told her I don'tsupport this at all.
I'll support your decisionwhatever it is, but I'm not on
board.
And she basically said I'mgoing to prove you wrong.
And today she has.
She's been home.
(30:05):
It was a year, in May.
I haven't had any moments likeOoh, that was weird or oh, that
was odd.
I always look at her reallyhard and try to look for
something and I haven't foundanything and I haven't had that
feeling about something beingoff other than just regular life
(30:28):
exhaustion.
And she keeps herself reallybusy.
She works six days a week.
I think that's very intentional.
She has my granddaughter allthe time.
I think that's very intentionaland very therapeutic for her.
So it's like that, one day at atime I wake up in the morning
and I go we got another day, wegot another day.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
As she has gotten into longer-term recovery.
Have you been able to be alittle gentler on yourself or
even haven't forgiven yourself?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I don't think so.
Why not?
Because I'm her mom, I feellike I own, that I could have
done so many things differentlyin hindsight 2020.
Differently, hindsight 2020.
I just go back to those momentswhere, in hindsight, I can see
where I could have donesomething different that may
(31:21):
have changed the trajectory ofher use.
I could have been harder attimes, I could have been softer
at times, I was tired.
So I let so much slip by justbecause I needed to keep it
quiet for Madeline's sake.
My other daughter the three ofus are, like we call each other,
(31:42):
the three musketeers.
She was nine and I didn't wantit to reflect on her.
I didn't want people to look ather differently her friend
group, those parents, to look ather differently, differently.
Her friend group, those parents, to look at her differently.
So I overindulged with her andnow that created a shopaholic.
I think the only way to findthat level of forgiveness will
(32:04):
be in a spiritual way andotherwise, no, it's very, it's
just super.
Still very, very heavy.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
So let's imagine that someone listening today is a
parent and they found out today,just before they started
listening, that their child isexperimenting with drugs.
What advice would you give them, given what you know from what
you've lived through?
Speaker 2 (32:29):
So I guess it would really depend on their
definition of experimenting.
Let's say.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
It's not just.
I tried cannabis for the firsttime with my friends.
It's a pattern of continued use.
They're starting to useregularly and you're worried.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
If they're needing to use something to make
themselves feel better, then youneed to get to the root of what
they're trying to get away from.
There's something there.
There's something there.
There's something there,regardless of what it is and
regardless of whether you wantto hear it or not, because
sometimes it's the parent thathas done something or didn't do
(33:05):
something that's making themfeel a certain way.
So I was fully aware of hermarijuana use and I wouldn't say
I condoned it, but I wasacceptant of it because I was
raised with parents that usemarijuana.
I guess that's a good place tostart and so, I don't know, I
just accepted it and that'ssomething I would not do again.
(33:28):
Although I appreciate thatmarijuana has its medical
purposes, medical benefits, Idon't believe a 13-year-old
should be using marijuana Ifthey're dying of cancer and on
chemo maybe, but I was alwaysagainst that.
Being a gateway drug, I wouldbe just like that's crazy, like
(33:48):
it's safer than alcohol.
It's this that that would beimmediately where I would go.
Nope, it's a gateway becausethe marijuana stops working and
then you have to smoke moreAnything you have to do more of.
I overeat.
Like I don't eat a bowl of icecream, I get the half gallon
with the bottle of chocolatesyrup and the whipped cream
until I make myself sick.
That's how I would explain itto them.
(34:10):
It's not healthy, it's nothealthy, it's not okay, and you
need to get to the root of it.
There's something there.
There's something there.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
You also mentioned some tense interactions with law
enforcement and, I'm assuming,healthcare providers as well.
Let's talk about what firstresponders, healthcare providers
, can do to be more supportiveof individuals and families when
there's addiction going on.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
First responders are the ones I've come into contact
with as a result of heraddiction.
I think locally our firstresponders have a really good
handle on how to handle thosevery sensitive situations.
It's really hard becausethere's so much protected
(34:59):
information that when your childis 18, they can't tell you.
There's ways to say it, there'sways to talk about it.
I mean I'm very creative nowbut like, could you tell your
coworker what you just did andwhy, just so I would understand?
Yeah, she's been really luckywith as far as that piece of it
(35:19):
goes.
I think there needs to be a lotmore education, not just on the
how to use Narcan or carry itin your car, but I mean there's
so much education out there thatyou can watch yourself.
If they really really wanted to, they would understand it.
She actually worked with.
Her name's Ashley.
She works at Community HospitalWatsonville now.
She was a substance usenavigator and we keep in contact
(35:42):
.
Actually, she was one of myinmates when I first started
doing jail outreach, so shesuffered from addiction, so we
knew each other that way andthen she walked in as the
substance use navigator and Iwas just amazed and we built a
really good bond and she wastalking about that trink drug
that no one knows about.
No one knows about it.
And she goes Wendy, it's here,it's here.
(36:04):
And I'm like, what do you mean?
And so I had to look it up andgo okay, now I need to be
looking for this, I mean.
So I just think that there is asense of in first responders.
They're naive to what's reallyout there and how it's getting
distributed.
I'm a freak.
My best friend's son is injunior high and I'm like he
(36:26):
can't eat candy from anybody, hecan't share food, he can't swap
gummy bears at lunch.
And she's like what are youtalking about?
And I'm like he just can't.
He just can't Pop rocks,absolutely not.
They think I'm crazy and Iprobably am to them, but I know
and I think the same thing withthe medical community.
(36:48):
There should be mandatorytrainings on how to handle not
only the patient but the family.
I think it's a disease, it's acancer.
So if they were going to callsomeone in to tell them that
(37:11):
their child was full of cancer,they need to pull the parents of
an addict at that degree whothey've seen twice in 24 hours
and had to bring back to life.
The same way, with white gloves, give them the resources.
I think substance use navigatorsin the rural hospital setting
are the most important people inthe room.
(37:33):
The rural hospital setting arethe most important people in the
room.
Ashley, in that instance, inthat overdose, she took so much
off of me trying to find her abed and doing the calling and
the insurance thing that I wasable to care for my daughter and
not be on the phone 24-7outside so no one could hear me
(37:54):
trying to navigate, finding andwaiting for a bed or what that
even meant.
I didn't even know what waitingfor a bed meant, how can there
not be a bed?
How can insurance not pay?
So just that educational piece.
I think those substance usenavigators for the family,
(38:15):
they're like the social workerwith a child with leukemia at
Lucille Packard.
They're the ones coordinatingeverything the home care, the
this care, the that care.
I'll end my spiel, as I call it, on one piece that I want to
leave with you, because I thinkthis is so important that after
her second overdose in that 12hour period or I don't even
(38:39):
think it was 12 hours, honestlythe same paramedic that revived
her at her first overdose thatnight was still on duty.
When he revived her thefollowing morning at her second
overdose and I know him and he'san amazing fireman he's an
amazing fireman paramedic herein the community when law
(39:03):
enforcement was called back ather second overdose and she was
taken to the hospital, shebasically said the second
overdose, she didn't want tolive anymore.
She had wrecked her car.
She was transported toNatividad Highway Patrol drove
her back to the jail.
The jail let her out in herhospital gown because they had
(39:25):
to cut her clothes off of her.
So what did she do?
She had another glue laced withfentanyl.
She knew it was laced.
Do she had another glue lacedwith fentanyl?
She knew it was laced, clearly,because she'd overdosed the
night before and she took thatbecause she wasn't going to be
able to face it.
That sheriff's deputy thatresponded and they all went to
(39:46):
the hospital and the sheriff hewas the captain.
Then sheriff taylor was thecaptain.
He wasn't the sheriff.
He went in and talked to her.
He made the determination thatshe was a harm to herself, that
it was intentional, it was as aresult of the night before she
lost everything.
Now what?
So they made the call to puther to the hold.
(40:06):
Our behavioral healthdepartment came out, asked him
to leave the room when he'shaving this heart to heart with
her because she was in a rush,took her off the hold in two
hours and her safety plan and Ihave I don't keep anything
anymore because it's too painfulI keep the safety plan that
(40:27):
person wrote because it is sucha slap in the face.
It said that how was she goingto deal with her thoughts of
suicide?
She was going to crochet, shewas going to listen to gospel
music and she was going to talkto me.
Those were the three things,the three points of contact.
(40:47):
So when they came out andexplained to me and here I
thought this was it she was puton a hold.
She was going to get the care,the mental health care, she
finally needed.
Oh, no, no, she's coming homewith me.
I lost my mind and I saidwhere's she going to get crochet
needles?
Where's she going to get yarn?
(41:08):
What does she listen to musicon?
What are you going to do when Idon't take her home?
Are you going to wheel her tothe street in a wheelchair?
Well, what do you mean?
I said she has no car to driveto Michael's to get crochet
needles.
I'm not driving with her.
She has no money, she has nonothing.
That was the turning pointwhere everything came from hurt
(41:32):
to.
I was so angry.
And when I got angry, that'swhen I started yelling from the
rooftops Like there's somethingsystematically wrong with this
and it was just it's barbaric Iguess that's my favorite word to
use it's barbaric.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
So what I heard is that people need more education,
people need to understand justhow life and death addiction is,
and we need more resources.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Well, wendy, I have to say I've learned so much from
you and it's been veryinteresting to speak to
Gabrielle, to hear her side andthen to speak to you and hear
yours, any last words that youwant to leave us with for
families that are trying to helpa loved one with addiction.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Care for the caregiver.
Mm-hmm, number one care for thecaregiver and never stop trying
to self-educate yourself.
Don't wait.
Do not wait.
99.9% of the time, it's onlygoing to get worse.
It's not going to get better.
Have the tough conversationsand if you can't have them, find
(42:47):
someone that can help you havethem.
Build your toolbox, becauseyou're going to need your
toolbox, and use your voice.
And use your voice.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Well, I have to say, Wendy, thank you so much for
your time.
I appreciate you talking to metoday.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Thank you have a great afternoon.
Thank you for all you do.
I appreciate you guys.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
To those healthcare providers out there treating
patients with addiction.
You're doing life-saving workand thank you for what you do
For everyone else tuning in.
Thank you for taking the timeto learn about addiction.
It's a fight we cannot winwithout awareness and action.
There's still so much we can doto improve how addiction is
treated.
Together we can make it happen.
(43:32):
Thanks for listening andremember treating addiction
saves lives.
Welcome to the Addiction Medicine Made Easy
Podcast.
Hey there, I'm Dr Casey Grover,an addiction medicine doctor
based on California's CentralCoast.
(00:22):
For 14 years I worked in theemergency department seeing
countless patients strugglingwith addiction.
Now I'm on the other side ofthe fight, helping people
rebuild their lives when drugsand alcohol take control.
Thanks for tuning in.
Let's get started.
Today's episode is the thirdepisode of a four-part series on
(00:45):
stigma, specifically the stigmathat people with addiction and
mental health conditions faceand how it affects them and
their families, and I have togive two shout-outs before we
start.
This episode is done incollaboration with Central Coast
Overdose Prevention, which is anonprofit I helped found here
(01:07):
on the Central Coast ofCalifornia focusing on
advocating for addictiontreatment, and this podcast was
made possible by CaliforniaOverdose Prevention Network
Accelerator funding from thePublic Health Institute's Center
for Health Leadership andImpact.
This episode is an interviewwith Wendy.
(01:27):
Do you remember the episodefrom last week where we talked
with Gabrielle and how sheconquered her addiction?
Well, wendy is Gabrielle'smother.
Wendy and Gabrielle and, by theway, gabrielle also goes by
Gabby Wendy and Gabrielle havebeen so brave to share their
intertwined life stories asmother and daughter around
(01:48):
Gabby's addiction, and today weare going to hear what it was
like for Wendy as the parent ofsomeone living with addiction
and how she faced stigma too.
A few clarifications Wendymentions Natividad, that's the
county hospital here in MontereyCounty, and also Wendy talks
about substance use navigators.
(02:09):
Substance use navigators, alsoknown as SONs, are healthcare
providers, often in emergencydepartments, who connect
patients with addiction andsubstance use to treatment.
We are very lucky to have themhere in all of our emergency
departments in Monterey Countyand we to have them here in all
of our emergency departments inMonterey County, and we also
have them in San Benito Countywhere Wendy and Gabrielle live.
(02:31):
And with that, here we go.
All right, wendy.
Well, good morning.
I'm so glad to have you join metoday, and I had just spoken to
your daughter about herexperience getting into recovery
and your support for her.
Tell me about who you are andwhere you live and what you do.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
So my name is Wendy Solorio and I am Gabby's mom as
well, as I have a son who's 35and a daughter who's 24.
I live here in Hollister.
I work for the County of SanBenito.
I've been there 17 years as achild support.
Specialist supervisor is mycurrent role.
In that role I've done a lot ofoutreach into the county, jails
(03:12):
, the high school, thecontinuation high school and,
yeah, I live on my parents'property and just trying to
enjoy this next phase of my life, my next season, trying to
enjoy this next phase of my life, my next season.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
So Gabrielle told me her story and how you supported
her through her journey, and wecongratulated her on two and a
half years of sobriety.
When did you realize that yourdaughter had a problem with
addiction?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I realized I knew, but I didn't want to know.
So that's how it started, andit started very early on.
I think she was in her freshmanyear of high school and she got
dropped off from a party.
She was supposed to be at herdad's for that weekend.
Immediately.
That was my first solidconfirmation and I immediately
(04:02):
jumped on and started lookingfor resources for her.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
How did you feel in terms of how you had done as a
parent up to that time?
Was there guilt, was thereworry, was there fear?
What was that moment like ofrealizing your daughter had a
problem?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
There was all of the above A lot of guilt, a lot of
shame.
We'd gone through a very nastydivorce.
She really had to step up at ayoung age and co-parent her
little sister with me.
It was a lot of responsibility.
She's an absolutely brilliantperson.
She's so smart and she's gotsuch a good heart, and so I
(04:40):
think the addiction really beganwith just like a typical coping
mechanism.
I think it started with herpeers and then became a regular
habit of coping with stress andverbal abuse, physical abuse
that she experienced.
Were you pretty hard on yourselfduring that time I was very
(05:01):
hard on myself and then later Ijust lost my mind.
So I worked really hard torebuild my career after my
divorce and so I was in aleadership role within the
county, which is very small.
It's a really close knit.
Everyone knows each other.
So when the addiction wasreally taking its hold on her,
(05:22):
it was very difficult tonavigate keeping my professional
face as well as keeping my momface, and so that made me very
angry.
I took it really personalalmost.
I think I even said one time toher after one of her many
overdoses why are you doing thisto me?
(05:42):
Because I just took it sopersonal.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
If people asked you how your daughter was doing
around that time, what was youranswer?
Hanging in there, when did you,if ever, get to a point where
you could be open aboutGabrielle's struggles with
addiction?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I think it was after her I wouldn't say her last
overdose.
It was pre pandemic.
So that's how I gaugeeverything these days.
And Chris Mangano, who's theemergency operations manager
here, was a close friend withMary the pharmacist and they
invited me to speak at a townhall, at the vets hall here, and
(06:24):
I think that's the first timewith a lot of my coworkers,
fellow leadership, advancedleadership in the room, that I
really took the opportunity.
It just came out, it juststarted bubbling out.
I couldn't stop talking aboutit.
There was a lot of criticismtowards me during that time
(06:47):
after, but there was so much, somuch, thank you.
It's like an elephant in theroom.
It was just a really raw,really raw story and
unfortunately it was a truestory, it was not fiction.
So I really wanted to get thatacross, what it was like having
to balance it and I thought wewere done at that time.
(07:07):
I thought we were done, Ithought she was clean, we were
on our way to our next wonderfulseason and I just still was so
naive to these drugs and thenworse drugs had on her and the
more she used, the more sheneeded and then she would have
to get to something else.
So I did a lot of self-educationjust because there weren't any
(07:29):
resources.
I mean I, after the incidentwith the alcohol thing the first
incident I ended up having herand this is just a terrible
story.
I enrolled her in a substanceabuse group at Behavioral Health
.
Her counselor was amazing.
His name was Tony Adamo I thinkhe's retired now but he was
(07:49):
amazing.
But in this group she was theonly one there that wasn't court
ordered to be there and she wasthe only one there for alcohol
and marijuana usage.
So this introduced her to awhole other demographic of peers
.
I always think like, if I couldput my thumb on going back,
(08:13):
that was a turning point for herfrom turning from bad to much
worse, because then she hadsomething in common with a
really rough demographic.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
One of the things we struggle with people with
addiction is that we want tohelp them and sometimes we need
to hold them accountable.
We have to push them whenthey're not ready and sometimes
we need to accommodate them.
They're struggling and theyneed the extra help, and no one
on planet earth knows thatbalance whether to give more
carrot or give more stick, ifyou will.
(08:45):
I'm curious what have youlearned, given your lived
experience with your daughter'saddiction, in terms of when to
push and use hard love versuswhen to accommodate and really
try to support?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I can't agree more that there's no balance.
I don't think there was a point.
I think it was a level ofexhaustion that I just couldn't
do it anymore.
So it was a very difficult time.
She was worse than she'd everbeen and I, just I was done.
I, physically and emotionally,was at a severe breaking point
(09:22):
and I knew I couldn't break.
I just knew I couldn't break.
I'd been broken before and Ifelt that darkness and I just
said I can't do this anymore.
It almost became intentional.
If someone else was getting toomuch attention, I think she was
self-sabotaging it was justreally hard.
(09:44):
But I would never be able toexplain to anyone about when to
draw the line.
I would go to NA meetings orNaranon meetings over in
Monterey, so no one would knowwho I was.
So I could speak freely.
My mom would come with me andyou hear it all.
You hear about people enabling,enabling, enabling I hate that
word enabling, accommodating,supporting.
(10:06):
And then you hear the toughlove stories.
Watched a lot of movies onaddiction.
Thank god it's really coming tolight.
I think it's four good days, oroh, it's a great movie.
Oh, my god, I bought it.
I mean, it's like on my playall the time.
Beautiful boy, just differentstyles of what you have to do If
(10:27):
there's no right or wronganswer.
It came to a point where shewas going to die.
She was going to die and I hadto put my armor on to deal with
her death, not her life anymore,she was going to die.
So, however, I had to do that.
(10:47):
That was my next season.
Was I refer to my life a lotabout before and afters.
They're just like definitelylines in the sand about before
this, after this, and that dayin December was the before and
the after.
That was it, and I won't evencall it a line in the sand, I
(11:08):
will call it a line in thecement it was just cemented in.
I couldn't break, I couldn'tbreak.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
What I heard from you .
It was less about beingintentional as to when to be
pushing accountability versusbeing accommodating, and more
about surviving.
Do I have that right?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yes, that's correct.
Survival, Survival.
The ringtone on my phone isstill just keep swimming from
the Finding Nemo movie.
Just keep swimming, get up.
Tomorrow's a new day.
Tonight's really rough.
There were days I would justget on my knees at the end of my
bed and just pray to whateverwas out there.
(11:46):
It was brutal.
My heart was broken.
Some of it still is verycracked, it's just, it will
never heal.
Anytime a family member callson my phone, I immediately go to
.
Something happened, not justwith her now, but with something
like oh no, not now.
Oh no, what happened?
(12:07):
Oh this, oh that there's justso much trauma triggering trauma
.
I misplace a $5 bill in mypurse and I immediately go to oh
no, I know I had a $5 bill hereand then I'll find it and I'll
be like you're so stupid, butyou're not, because there were
many missings $5 bills.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Who was your support network when your daughter was
still in her active addiction?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
My parents but my dad is like the weakest link with
her.
They have a very uniquerelationship.
My mom is the source ofstrength.
She just was always there, butshe would be influenced.
She called it getting on mywhite horse and rescuing her.
(12:51):
There you go, getting on yourwhite horse again.
So then I shut down fromtelling her everything because I
felt guilt and shame about that.
Actually, my boss at work shewas so supportive, she really
helped me navigate through theprofessional slash.
Personal, my cousin, ChrisMangano.
(13:12):
Oh my gosh.
It got to the point where I wasin therapy and my psychiatrist
would tell me you need to turnyour ringer off at night and you
need to turn your phone over soyou're not stimulated by the
light.
And I said but what if she diesand they can't get ahold of me?
And he said she'll be dead inthe morning.
And that was the hardest thingto do, that I still do it to
(13:35):
this day.
I turn my ringer off at nightand I turn my phone over so I'm
not stimulated by light.
And one morning I woke up and Ihad a missed call from Chris at
like three o'clock, fouro'clock, Gabby was in sober,
living here in Hollister, andshe'd gotten a call.
She'd heard on her radiocommunication that someone
(13:57):
matching her age descriptors andthe street she was living on
had overdosed, and so I knew Imade a cup of coffee and I
picked up the phone to call herand I just said is she alive?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
And she said barely, and that was just how we lived
for a long time.
You said you got some mentalhealth services.
What was that like?
It was terrible.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
So behavioral health here they don't really take
private insurance, which is odd.
They're pretty much Medi-Calbased.
And you have to go through a ohgosh, it's like this, what do
they call it?
Like an intake, extensiveintake thing.
And I didn't want to go throughintake.
(14:41):
I been going through this forso long, I wanted to get to it.
So right when I was getting tothe heart of it I had switched
over to Kaiser specifically forthe purpose of getting
continuing therapy services andgetting my medication.
I had a ton of anxiety, a tonof depression.
(15:01):
I still do.
And that's where I found, likea consistent therapist,
behavioral health.
Here, as you'll come to know,if you don't already, we do a
lot of interning, we do a lot ofshort timers.
So you start with someone, thenyou go and they're not there
that day, so someone else fillsin.
Well, when you're as raw as itraw gets, it's really
(15:23):
discouraging.
So I was able to get probablythree good months of rock solid
therapy not someone justreflectively listening, but
therapy and get on, fortunatelythe right combination of
medications to let me be able tofunction, and so that piece of
(15:46):
it was amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
So it sounds like a rocky start, but ultimately it
proved to be part of yoursupport network, as you were
supporting your daughter gettingsober it was my safe place.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I didn't have to worry about hurting anybody's
feelings.
I would go once a week and Iwould leave all my yuck there,
and that was invigorating.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
How many parents do you think have been in your
position but don't have accessto mental health services?
From what you've experienced,oh, I think 90%.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
And if they do have access they don't have the means
, they don't have the insurance,they can't take off work.
I can imagine that a lot ofthem are single parents like
myself who every hour you misswork, you're losing money or
losing sick leave.
17 years at the county I haveno sick leave.
Almost all of my sick leave hasgone to either taking care of
(16:41):
her when she's been in herplaces or taking care of me as a
result of her being in herplaces.
Days and days waiting for a bed, days and days in the hospital,
days and days transporting.
She's gone as far up asAnderson Tuolumne County.
She's gone everywhere and soit's just a lot.
(17:04):
Then I break on my way home andthen I need like three days to
recover just from the adrenalineof lack of sleep, lack of
everything.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
How much financially did her addiction affect you?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
My parents actually paid for her first.
I'm sure you're familiar withCherie.
Cherie Ashley, cherie Navarettewent to school with my oldest
son and so she's a face ofrecovery in our community.
So she was the first person Ireached out to.
Now I knew what I knew and myparents.
She came out and we exploredprograms and insurance.
(17:41):
Thank God my ex-husband hadreally great insurance with the
Teamsters.
So she went to a facility overin Watsonville in Santa Cruz
County.
It was very expensive and theway Cherie put it to us is you
can try to get this right thefirst time You're going to spend
it here or you're going tospend it on a funeral.
If you have the means, get herin the best facility you can and
(18:05):
let's hope that one time sticks.
That was $20,000 out of pocket.
The program itself was $40,000,but it was a 90-day program
minimum 90 days.
Which was a selling point forus is that I've never thought 30
days is enough.
I mean I can tell, like herbrain, how it's working and 30
(18:27):
days is just a ridiculousminimum, ridiculous minimum.
So what it did take a toll onme was I put all our hotels on
credit cards, specifically whenshe was up north Anderson Teen
Challenge.
She'd get a weekend pass.
As she earned weekend passes, Iopened up a new credit card,
(18:49):
maxed it out.
Opened up a new credit card,maxed it out.
Open up a new credit card, maxit out.
It's basically a bare bonesprogram and so having to support
her clothing needs, her shampooconditioner, doing it for me
and doing it for them, trying tocontribute as much as I could
for the house, because therewere girls there that had really
(19:11):
had nothing, women there wholiterally they pulled out from
under an underpass, so I wasalways trying to help.
I would just say that I'veexhausted.
It'll take me probably anotherdecade, as long as it took us to
get here.
It'll take me that long to getout of the debt that I've
(19:31):
incurred.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Do you and your daughter ever talk about that?
No, what do you think theconversation would be like?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I don't know.
So I was thinking about thatthis morning because she's very
financially stable right now andI don't really expect anything
in return.
And I don't really expectanything in return.
But I think that she stole alot of money for my parents as
well, because my dad is oldfashioned and keeps cash, for
whatever reason, in his sockdrawer, and so I thought might
(20:01):
be a really good point in timewhere she could say I'm going to
give you guys $100 a week.
We're not good at toughconversations.
I'm scared to death of toughconversations.
Scared to death in the literalterm, scared to death Like I'll
suck it up, I will figure it out.
She's super generous with menow, like she surprises me with,
(20:22):
like a gift certificate or toget my nails done out of the
blue.
Those things mean so much thatI just want to bury it.
I just don't want to go backthere.
I'm definitely afraid of whatthat might do Trigger something
in her.
So yeah, it's tough, it's very,very tough.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Were you afraid of difficult conversations before
her addiction?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Always, is it worse now oh yeah, oh yeah, it's 10
times worse now.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, it's 10 timesworse now now.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
I had spoken with gabrielle yesterday about stigma
and judgment and shame.
Did you notice that peopletreated your daughter
differently once that she hadaddiction?
Yes, how so?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Well, I had co-workers that had children
that were in the same age group.
I would say, and they wouldjust always I don't know the way
they treated her just changed.
She showed up at my work.
We went through periods becauseof the person that she was in a
romantic relationship with.
(21:31):
That was a horrible, horribleperson where she'd alienate me.
I wasn't allowed to be in herlife, and so she would.
At the worst of times she wouldshow up at my work or be waiting
by my car or come into myoffice and I felt like that was
always like oh, she's on SkidRow again, or I would overhear
(21:51):
the conversations.
They wouldn't necessarily comeout and say hello to her.
They would say let me get yourmom.
They wouldn't bring her intothe back and I know she picked
up on those things.
It wasn't something I couldreally address because I really
didn't blame them.
I mean my family, not myimmediate family, my extended
(22:11):
family has always been veryworried about perception.
So you know she'd show uplooking really rough and it was
always the comparison alwayswell, she doesn't look like
she's doing good, so they wouldtreat her like she wasn't doing
(22:32):
good.
I don't think she even knew shedidn't look like she was doing
good, so I think she took it.
I don't know, it was superpainful, it was just super
painful.
So then we just started doingour own thing.
So I absorbed it all, which washard.
It was really hard.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Did people treat you differently once they found out
that your daughter had addiction?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Absolutely.
Especially when I became morevocal about the epidemic here, I
felt like they felt sorry forme and I didn't feel sorry for
myself.
I never once said woe is me andI didn't feel sorry for myself.
I never once said woe is me.
I worked with or sat inmeetings with people that were
immediately involved.
(23:17):
In her emergency response care,the deputy district attorney who
then became my courtcommissioner that I'm in court
with at breaks would just sayhow's Gabby, how's your daughter
doing?
And our presiding judge knewI'd lost some really good friend
groups what I thought were goodfriends because I learned that
they weren't being transparentwith me and I thought I was
(23:40):
being wordly transparent andasking for feedback, whether it
be negative or positive, or whatdo you think I should do next,
or how do you think I shouldhandle this, or I'm feeling like
this or I'm feeling like thatand to learn that they would
turn around and talk about whatI wasn't doing or what I wasn't
doing right, like they were anexpert on the subject.
(24:01):
So I just would shut down, Iwould just not talk about it,
which I think probably inhindsight, is the worst thing
you could do.
The biggest thing was when Iwas at that town hall.
House Speaker Robert Revis wasthe counselor at our school,
high school, and he was myyoungest daughter's school
counselor and he was on theBoard of Supervisors at that
(24:24):
time.
So he was there representingthe Board of Supervisors.
When he was asked a question,he spoke before I did and he
basically said these kids aremaking these choices that are
life-threatening, they'rechoosing to buy these drugs that
they know are potentiallylethal.
(24:48):
And I, when I got up there inpublic in front of the group,
just said I respectfullydisagree.
I absolutely appreciate thatthat may be your opinion, but
they don't go out and choose tobuy drugs laced with fentanyl.
This isn't something theydecide.
(25:08):
Getting ready, doing their hairon a Friday night, going, okay,
let's rock and roll tonight.
The other frustrating piece wasthe law enforcement piece a bit.
So I became like a renegade atone point.
I think I told you I lost mymind.
So one of the times that shewas committed I had her placed
on a hold for two hours and Iwas able to get access to her
(25:32):
phone and I had a amazingsheriff's deputy.
His name was Matt Avila.
He's now with Georgia police.
He was so compassionate and sokind.
He came and went through herphone to try to figure out like
where it was coming from.
She had overdosed twice in likea 12-hour period and he just
said, yep, yep, it's the usualplayers.
(25:54):
And I thought so you know wherethis is happening and you're
not doing anything about it.
And he's like well, our handsare tied, they really want the
higher ups.
And I was just like I can'tbelieve this.
My daughter has died twice in12 hours and you know who's
killing her and you can't doanything about it.
(26:14):
So then I would go on with thatand then have to really step
back Because I would get myhands slapped.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
I guess you could say Did you have any good
interactions with lawenforcement after that?
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Oh, I did, I did.
She was well known for a longtime and I work closely with law
enforcement.
Like I said, I go into thejails, so everyone knew I was
her mom.
I get oh, you're Gabby's mom.
That's where I would get.
I wouldn't get.
Oh, hi, wendy, how are you?
Oh, you're Gabby's mom.
Oh, this is Gabby's mom.
Gabby wink, wink and I thoughthow dare you?
(27:11):
And I thought how dare you?
Yes, I am Gabby's mom and I'mproud to be Gabby's mom.
Gabby's overcome a lot.
So I feel like the oldergeneration let's go get him.
But a more protect and serve.
And that is huge.
Hollister police hasn't beenthat way.
I don't have a lot ofinteraction with them.
We live in the country, so allof our interaction was basically
(27:32):
with the sheriff's office andknowing oh, it's Gabby again.
Or I did have one unrelatedinteraction with my best
friend's son who overdosed onfentanyl years later and that
group of officers was notcompassionate at all.
I remember saying did heaspirate?
They were having a hard timebringing him back.
(27:53):
They were working on him.
Did he aspirate and they go?
Hard time bringing him back.
They were working on him.
Did he aspirate and they go.
You really don't need to knowthat.
I was his emergency contact andI said, well, I really do,
because my daughter aspiratedand they said it wouldn't turn
into anything.
And it turned into pneumoniaand she almost died.
And then they weren't eveneducated enough to know that
after so many doses of Narcanthey pop up, and so he had had a
(28:17):
criminal history.
So I understood later but hepopped up and they immediately
threw him in handcuffs that hewas like assaulting them, and
I'm like he's not assaulting you, he's popping up.
What do you mean?
He's popping up and I'm likehow do you not know this?
How do you not know this?
It was infuriating, infuriating.
I literally got in thesergeant's face and I said I
(28:44):
think you need someone to cometeach you guys about these
situations.
So that's always been fun.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Not so much, but you know.
So.
Wendy Gabrielle is now two anda half years sober.
I congratulated her when Ispoke to her.
How is it?
Speaker 2 (29:00):
now.
She's so amazing she's I stillhold back.
I love her with all of my heart.
I mean from my toenails to myhair, but I still hold back.
I cannot make myself vulnerableto that level.
I can't get there, but she'samazing.
She's the best aunt in theworld.
My younger daughter has atwo-year-old and they all live
(29:23):
together and she'sself-sufficient.
She's self-supporting, but,yeah, it's wonderful to have her
home, but it's scary as well tohave her home.
I was not supportive of hermoving back here.
I thought she needed a newplayground, a new demographic,
and I thought she had found thatin Tuolumne.
Tuolumne was, I mean, has areally good faith-based
(29:45):
community that she reallyinserted herself in and was
received so well.
But you know I can't make thosedecisions for her.
I basically told her I don'tsupport this at all.
I'll support your decision, butyou know I can't make those
decisions for her.
I basically told her I don'tsupport this at all.
I'll support your decisionwhatever it is, but I'm not on
board.
And she basically said I'mgoing to prove you wrong.
And today she has.
She's been home.
(30:05):
It was a year, in May.
I haven't had any moments likeOoh, that was weird or oh, that
was odd.
I always look at her reallyhard and try to look for
something and I haven't foundanything and I haven't had that
feeling about something beingoff other than just regular life
(30:28):
exhaustion.
And she keeps herself reallybusy.
She works six days a week.
I think that's very intentional.
She has my granddaughter allthe time.
I think that's very intentionaland very therapeutic for her.
So it's like that, one day at atime I wake up in the morning
and I go we got another day, wegot another day.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
As she has gotten into longer-term recovery.
Have you been able to be alittle gentler on yourself or
even haven't forgiven yourself?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I don't think so.
Why not?
Because I'm her mom, I feellike I own, that I could have
done so many things differentlyin hindsight 2020.
Differently, hindsight 2020.
I just go back to those momentswhere, in hindsight, I can see
where I could have donesomething different that may
(31:21):
have changed the trajectory ofher use.
I could have been harder attimes, I could have been softer
at times, I was tired.
So I let so much slip by justbecause I needed to keep it
quiet for Madeline's sake.
My other daughter the three ofus are, like we call each other,
(31:42):
the three musketeers.
She was nine and I didn't wantit to reflect on her.
I didn't want people to look ather differently her friend
group, those parents, to look ather differently, differently.
Her friend group, those parents, to look at her differently.
So I overindulged with her andnow that created a shopaholic.
I think the only way to findthat level of forgiveness will
(32:04):
be in a spiritual way andotherwise, no, it's very, it's
just super.
Still very, very heavy.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
So let's imagine that someone listening today is a
parent and they found out today,just before they started
listening, that their child isexperimenting with drugs.
What advice would you give them, given what you know from what
you've lived through?
Speaker 2 (32:29):
So I guess it would really depend on their
definition of experimenting.
Let's say.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
It's not just.
I tried cannabis for the firsttime with my friends.
It's a pattern of continued use.
They're starting to useregularly and you're worried.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
If they're needing to use something to make
themselves feel better, then youneed to get to the root of what
they're trying to get away from.
There's something there.
There's something there.
There's something there,regardless of what it is and
regardless of whether you wantto hear it or not, because
sometimes it's the parent thathas done something or didn't do
(33:05):
something that's making themfeel a certain way.
So I was fully aware of hermarijuana use and I wouldn't say
I condoned it, but I wasacceptant of it because I was
raised with parents that usemarijuana.
I guess that's a good place tostart and so, I don't know, I
just accepted it and that'ssomething I would not do again.
(33:28):
Although I appreciate thatmarijuana has its medical
purposes, medical benefits, Idon't believe a 13-year-old
should be using marijuana Ifthey're dying of cancer and on
chemo maybe, but I was alwaysagainst that.
Being a gateway drug, I wouldbe just like that's crazy, like
(33:48):
it's safer than alcohol.
It's this that that would beimmediately where I would go.
Nope, it's a gateway becausethe marijuana stops working and
then you have to smoke moreAnything you have to do more of.
I overeat.
Like I don't eat a bowl of icecream, I get the half gallon
with the bottle of chocolatesyrup and the whipped cream
until I make myself sick.
That's how I would explain itto them.
(34:10):
It's not healthy, it's nothealthy, it's not okay, and you
need to get to the root of it.
There's something there.
There's something there.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
You also mentioned some tense interactions with law
enforcement and, I'm assuming,healthcare providers as well.
Let's talk about what firstresponders, healthcare providers
, can do to be more supportiveof individuals and families when
there's addiction going on.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
First responders are the ones I've come into contact
with as a result of heraddiction.
I think locally our firstresponders have a really good
handle on how to handle thosevery sensitive situations.
It's really hard becausethere's so much protected
(34:59):
information that when your childis 18, they can't tell you.
There's ways to say it, there'sways to talk about it.
I mean I'm very creative nowbut like, could you tell your
coworker what you just did andwhy, just so I would understand?
Yeah, she's been really luckywith as far as that piece of it
(35:19):
goes.
I think there needs to be a lotmore education, not just on the
how to use Narcan or carry itin your car, but I mean there's
so much education out there thatyou can watch yourself.
If they really really wanted to, they would understand it.
She actually worked with.
Her name's Ashley.
She works at Community HospitalWatsonville now.
She was a substance usenavigator and we keep in contact
(35:42):
.
Actually, she was one of myinmates when I first started
doing jail outreach, so shesuffered from addiction, so we
knew each other that way andthen she walked in as the
substance use navigator and Iwas just amazed and we built a
really good bond and she wastalking about that trink drug
that no one knows about.
No one knows about it.
And she goes Wendy, it's here,it's here.
(36:04):
And I'm like, what do you mean?
And so I had to look it up andgo okay, now I need to be
looking for this, I mean.
So I just think that there is asense of in first responders.
They're naive to what's reallyout there and how it's getting
distributed.
I'm a freak.
My best friend's son is injunior high and I'm like he
(36:26):
can't eat candy from anybody, hecan't share food, he can't swap
gummy bears at lunch.
And she's like what are youtalking about?
And I'm like he just can't.
He just can't Pop rocks,absolutely not.
They think I'm crazy and Iprobably am to them, but I know
and I think the same thing withthe medical community.
(36:48):
There should be mandatorytrainings on how to handle not
only the patient but the family.
I think it's a disease, it's acancer.
So if they were going to callsomeone in to tell them that
(37:11):
their child was full of cancer,they need to pull the parents of
an addict at that degree whothey've seen twice in 24 hours
and had to bring back to life.
The same way, with white gloves, give them the resources.
I think substance use navigatorsin the rural hospital setting
are the most important people inthe room.
(37:33):
The rural hospital setting arethe most important people in the
room.
Ashley, in that instance, inthat overdose, she took so much
off of me trying to find her abed and doing the calling and
the insurance thing that I wasable to care for my daughter and
not be on the phone 24-7outside so no one could hear me
(37:54):
trying to navigate, finding andwaiting for a bed or what that
even meant.
I didn't even know what waitingfor a bed meant, how can there
not be a bed?
How can insurance not pay?
So just that educational piece.
I think those substance usenavigators for the family,
(38:15):
they're like the social workerwith a child with leukemia at
Lucille Packard.
They're the ones coordinatingeverything the home care, the
this care, the that care.
I'll end my spiel, as I call it, on one piece that I want to
leave with you, because I thinkthis is so important that after
her second overdose in that 12hour period or I don't even
(38:39):
think it was 12 hours, honestlythe same paramedic that revived
her at her first overdose thatnight was still on duty.
When he revived her thefollowing morning at her second
overdose and I know him and he'san amazing fireman he's an
amazing fireman paramedic herein the community when law
(39:03):
enforcement was called back ather second overdose and she was
taken to the hospital, shebasically said the second
overdose, she didn't want tolive anymore.
She had wrecked her car.
She was transported toNatividad Highway Patrol drove
her back to the jail.
The jail let her out in herhospital gown because they had
(39:25):
to cut her clothes off of her.
So what did she do?
She had another glue laced withfentanyl.
She knew it was laced.
Do she had another glue lacedwith fentanyl?
She knew it was laced, clearly,because she'd overdosed the
night before and she took thatbecause she wasn't going to be
able to face it.
That sheriff's deputy thatresponded and they all went to
(39:46):
the hospital and the sheriff hewas the captain.
Then sheriff taylor was thecaptain.
He wasn't the sheriff.
He went in and talked to her.
He made the determination thatshe was a harm to herself, that
it was intentional, it was as aresult of the night before she
lost everything.
Now what?
So they made the call to puther to the hold.
(40:06):
Our behavioral healthdepartment came out, asked him
to leave the room when he'shaving this heart to heart with
her because she was in a rush,took her off the hold in two
hours and her safety plan and Ihave I don't keep anything
anymore because it's too painfulI keep the safety plan that
(40:27):
person wrote because it is sucha slap in the face.
It said that how was she goingto deal with her thoughts of
suicide?
She was going to crochet, shewas going to listen to gospel
music and she was going to talkto me.
Those were the three things,the three points of contact.
(40:47):
So when they came out andexplained to me and here I
thought this was it she was puton a hold.
She was going to get the care,the mental health care, she
finally needed.
Oh, no, no, she's coming homewith me.
I lost my mind and I saidwhere's she going to get crochet
needles?
Where's she going to get yarn?
(41:08):
What does she listen to musicon?
What are you going to do when Idon't take her home?
Are you going to wheel her tothe street in a wheelchair?
Well, what do you mean?
I said she has no car to driveto Michael's to get crochet
needles.
I'm not driving with her.
She has no money, she has nonothing.
That was the turning pointwhere everything came from hurt
(41:32):
to.
I was so angry.
And when I got angry, that'swhen I started yelling from the
rooftops Like there's somethingsystematically wrong with this
and it was just it's barbaric Iguess that's my favorite word to
use it's barbaric.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
So what I heard is that people need more education,
people need to understand justhow life and death addiction is,
and we need more resources.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Well, wendy, I have to say I've learned so much from
you and it's been veryinteresting to speak to
Gabrielle, to hear her side andthen to speak to you and hear
yours, any last words that youwant to leave us with for
families that are trying to helpa loved one with addiction.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Care for the caregiver.
Mm-hmm, number one care for thecaregiver and never stop trying
to self-educate yourself.
Don't wait.
Do not wait.
99.9% of the time, it's onlygoing to get worse.
It's not going to get better.
Have the tough conversationsand if you can't have them, find
(42:47):
someone that can help you havethem.
Build your toolbox, becauseyou're going to need your
toolbox, and use your voice.
And use your voice.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Well, I have to say, Wendy, thank you so much for
your time.
I appreciate you talking to metoday.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Thank you have a great afternoon.
Thank you for all you do.
I appreciate you guys.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
To those healthcare providers out there treating
patients with addiction.
You're doing life-saving workand thank you for what you do
For everyone else tuning in.
Thank you for taking the timeto learn about addiction.
It's a fight we cannot winwithout awareness and action.
There's still so much we can doto improve how addiction is
treated.
Together we can make it happen.
(43:32):
Thanks for listening andremember treating addiction
saves lives.
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