Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Isabel Byon (00:00):
The New York State Office of Addiction Services and
Supports, or OASAS, providesthis podcast as a public service
.
Thoughts and opinions expresseddo not necessarily represent or
reflect those of the agency orstate.
This is Addiction (00:12):
The Next Step.
Jerry Gretzinger (00:22):
Hello there everybody.
Jerry Gretzinger here, yourhost of Addiction: The Next Step
, you know it's brought to youby the New York State Office of
Addiction Services and Supports,and, yeah, so we have two
guests joining us today in ourstudio and special guests,
special guests.
We've heard from one of thembefore.
The other one is a new guestthat's joining us and we're
talking about something that'spretty exciting.
It's a partnership that OASAShas with Stanford University and
(00:45):
the REACH Lab there and thegreat work that's happening
between these two organizations.
So let me tell you who we'vegot here.
Our returning guest is PatZuber-Wilson, who's here with us
today.
She leads up our preventionefforts here at the agency for
the last many, many years, doesa lot of good work with that,
and her partner over at Stanford, working on the initiatives
(01:05):
we'll be talking about, is DrBonnie Halpern-Felsher, and you
are the professor of pediatricsat the university and also the
director of the REACH Lab.
Welcome.
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (01:16):
Thank you so much.
Thank you for having us Now.
Jerry Gretzinger (01:17):
Pat, you've been here before, so you're
going to wait a moment.
We're going to start with DrBonnie.
I can call you Dr Bonnie, right?
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (01:22):
Please.
Jerry Gretzinger (01:23):
All right.
So we talked about the REACH Lab, right?
So before we get into what theREACH Lab is doing with OASAS,
tell us what is the REACH Lab?
Bonnie Halpern-Felsh (01:33):
Absolutely so, the REACH Lab.
It's a lab.
I just didn't want to be thehelper in a fulsher lab.
That was boring.
And REACH stands for Researchand Education to Empower
Adolescents and Young Adults toChoose Health, and that's what
we're all about.
We do research on adolescentsubstance use and other
potentially risky behaviors andthen we translate the research
that we and others do intopolicy and then into prevention
(01:53):
and intervention programs.
Jerry Gretzinger (01:55):
All right.
So that sounds like some prettylofty goals here, right,
because anything, I think whenyou're working with young people
it can be lofty because youhave to figure out what's the
best route to try to assist themas they go through those years.
But so when we talk about thepartnership with OASAS, right,
you know we obviously are veryconcerned with substance use and
the prevention of that in theyoung ages is key.
What's the sort of work that'sbeen happening within the REACH
(02:18):
lab that is, you know, criticaland useful to an agency like
ours?
Bonnie Halpern-Felsh (02:23):
Absolutely Well, one of the things I mean
a lot of labs are doing researchon why teens are using what our
teens are using in terms ofsubstances.
What we really do is the verypractical side of this.
So not only what are they using, why, how come, what are the
different products, but how dowe reach teens, how do we help
adolescents make healthierdecisions?
My research started I'm adevelopmental psychologist my
(02:44):
research started in adolescentdecision making.
So how do they make decisionsaround drug use and how do we
help prevent it?
And then, with the translationto the prevention programs, it's
very practical.
And then we talk a lot aboutharm reduction.
So saying to teens just say no,n-o, really doesn't work.
We know that from years andyears of experience.
(03:05):
So we really work on how do wehelp them say K-N-O-W, how do we
help them understand, changetheir attitudes, ideally prevent
all use.
But then, if they are using,how do we help them cut back,
quit or, if they still continueto use, at least keep them safe
and alive is really what we workon.
And then the novelty is we dohave these school-based and
(03:27):
community-based programs that webring to communities.
Jerry Gretzinger (03:31):
Yeah, I think that's so great too that you
know, obviously.
You know the first thing wewant to be able to do is to help
prevent substance use, butcertainly to kind of, you know,
complete that circle, that ifpeople have already started,
what can we do to help them?
Maybe cut back or stop?
Bonnie Halpern-Felsh (03:50):
Absolutely .
And if their friends are using,how do we help a peer, help
their friend?
Or, in the case of, say,fentanyl, carry Narcan, or make
sure that they know how to testtheir product and be safe around
it.
So it's really is building upcommunity capacity, whether it's
with young people, theirparents, their teachers, their
community supports to keep themsafe.
Jerry Gretzinger (04:04):
Now I mean again, as I said before, pretty
lofty goals here, and this isnot something that you started
last week and said, hey, we cameup with a couple of good ideas.
How long have you been workingon this?
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (04:14):
Well, I've been doing research on
adolescent substance use,starting with tobacco gosh,
probably in 2000, maybe evenbefore that, and then our
curriculums.
We actually started buildingcurriculums in 2009.
And, yes, it took many years tobring our first curriculum to
the communities and now we buildcommunity.
Excuse me, we build curriculumsall the time, but it does take
(04:35):
a lot of time.
And we build our curriculumswith our community.
And when I say community, Imean young people, I don't mean
just my Stanford communityacross the country, but we work
with young people.
We work with parents andeducators and healthcare
providers to make sure that whatwe build is accurate, relevant
and would have the reach of theREACH Lab to be able to really
(04:57):
bring it.
And if you build something thata teacher doesn't want to use
or a young person doesn't like,they're not going to use it.
So it takes longer, but we feellike we're doing the steps to
make it right.
Jerry Gretzinger (05:08):
All right, so I'm going to back up a little
bit here.
You talked about thecurriculums that are developed
and how teachers can put theminto place.
So really, that's what a lot ofthat research goes towards,
right how can we take what we'velearned and then give it to
people in a useful format soteachers can use it in a
classroom, can communicate withstudents and start making
inroads with them that way?
That's kind of where this allheads towards.
Bonnie Halpern-Felsh (05:30):
Absolutely .
Very important.
Jerry Gretzinger (05:32):
And so now I'm going to let Pat talk a little
bit.
So, Pat, when these curriculumsare developed right and you
work with Bonnie on these thingsand the rest of the team, those
curriculums I'm assuming theycome to an agency like ours to
help push them out, to kind ofget them in use.
Yes?
Pat Zuber-Wilson (05:49):
Absolutely.
We've been working with thefolks at the REACH Lab, Dr
Bonney, for since 2024, I thinkwe started with some.
They were gracious enough towork with us in terms of doing
some webinars with our providerfield, working with our school
districts.
We've developed a partnershipwith State Ed, also a
(06:12):
partnership with the New YorkState PTA, so we are getting the
information out.
The wonderful thing that wetruly appreciate about the REACH
Lab and their curriculum arethey're free to use and so that
has really been a benefit to ournot only our provider system,
but also school districts havesent individuals to come to the
(06:36):
trainings that the REACH Lab hasdone in New York State.
They've done in-person training,They've done virtual training
for us and, a matter of fact,last night Dr Bonnie did a
webinar for parents through andin partnership with the New York
State PTA.
So we're really getting theword out and getting information
(06:58):
out that is factual and comesthrough an approach that reaches
young people where they are,and I think that's the thing
that we've heard already forthose providers, those school
districts that are already usingthe curriculum, that it's
something that a teacher or oneof our prevention providers can
(07:19):
really make adjustments so thecurriculum looks like the kids
that are in the classroom, thatit looks like the communities
where they are from.
So if you do it in New YorkCity, if you do the curriculum
in New York City, you don't wantthe farms and the fields, you
want the community that lookslike New York City.
So it's been a greatpartnership and a great
(07:39):
opportunity for not only ouragency but the people that we
serve.
Jerry Gretzinger (07:44):
That's terrific.
Now we're talking talking aboutcurriculums too, and you know,
as Pat was just saying, they'rekind of tailored for where
they're going to be put to use,and I'm assuming too, there's
not just one curriculum thatsays, oh, now we'll make it for
the city, now we'll make it forthe country.
Is it broken up by age groupand region?
And how do you determine thedifferent curriculums you're
using?
Bonnie Halpern-Felsh (08:04):
Absolutely .
It's a great question andhonestly the need is so big we'd
be nonstop with it.
So first, the big picture ofthe curriculums.
We have one called Smart Talkand that is specifically on
cannabis prevention, and thatone, as well as our you and Me
Together Vape Free, which is ourvaping prevention curriculum.
Both of those are two lessonsfor elementary, so yes, there's
(08:25):
an elementary version.
And then we have a middle andhigh school version and those
are five or six lessons.
So the big difference therewould be that we're not
necessarily making everypossible region that would be
very difficult but we really tryto have it broad enough that it
works, but also some specificimages and we tell educators
that they are welcome to.
(08:46):
We use canvas slides, they'rewelcome to then download and
alter the pictures, or we willwork with them and like we're
working with New York State or,excuse me, New York City, to
make sure that that curriculumis most relevant to New York
City.
So it is.
The science certainly doesn'tchange, the decision making
doesn't change, but, like Patwas saying, the images might
change, the length of thecurriculum changes, the
(09:08):
classroom lengths might be alittle shorter, a little bit
longer.
So that's a lot of what we'redoing.
Sometimes the activities willchange, so we're working on that
.
So that's our smart talk andour you and me.
We also have Safety First.
Safety First is ourcomprehensive drug education
curriculum.
That is actually 13 lessons,but we certainly don't expect
every school to use all 13.
(09:28):
That covers brain developmentand brains on drugs.
It covers heart and lungs andthe rest of the body.
It covers stress and coping.
We know young people are usingbecause they're so stressed.
So some of the things we talkabout is deep breathing and how
to deal with it.
And then we talk about how tonot use or reduce your risk if
(09:49):
you are using of every drugcategory that's out there
hallucinogens, alcohol, cannabis, tobacco, fentanyl you name it.
So that's important.
And then we have our cessationprogram.
So our Healthy Futures it's analternative to suspension
program really important to usto and we were actually talking
about this at the state meetingthe other day, the conference
(10:12):
not only meeting young peoplewhere they're at, but
recognizing that if you areusing and I suspend you, you're
just going to go home andcontinue using and I'm not
getting at the root of theproblem, the root of the problem
being the root of the problembeing stress, being family
dynamics, being whatever mightbe going on.
So really working with theyoung person, meeting them where
they're at and helping themquit, helping them deal with the
(10:32):
underlying problems, and that'swhat our Healthy Futures
curriculum does.
And then we have specific forLGBTQ, talking about the
environment that's particularlyimportant for rural communities,
and so on, talking about theenvironment that's particularly
important for rural communities,and so on.
So we really try hard to listento our partners, our
communities and tailor ourcurriculums as best we can.
Jerry Gretzinger (10:51):
Yeah, and I think what you were just
describing kind of is soimportant, because you don't
always want to try to takeeverybody and fit them into one
mold.
It's like sometimes that squarepeg is not going to fit in that
round hole, right, but it seemslike you've been able to take
the time and the research tofigure out who are the different
groups out there that canbenefit from this and then
tailor these curriculums tothose groups.
(11:12):
And so, along those lines too,you know, I think about some of
the folks who may be, you knowthe ones who are delivering this
information and we talked about, you know, teachers and schools
and such.
You talked about doing thetrainings, the webinars and such
, because I have to think too,you know, for teachers.
You go to them and say, allright, so whatever you've been
doing, there may be a better way, we may have a new way of doing
(11:32):
this could be more impactful,and some of them may look at
that like, oh gosh, I've alreadygot so much, I've got going on
already.
How am I going to pull this off?
I'm assuming the trainings helpthem figure out.
Here's exactly how you can pullit off and not make it such a
heavy lift for them.
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (11:47):
Yeah, that's exactly right and that's
one of the other things that'ssuch a wonderful partnership is
we can work together with theteachers.
But that's absolutely right,and some of the teachers we're
training are not necessarilyclassroom educators.
They might be after schoolprogram specialists or
counselors or Saturday schoolpeople a number of different
groups.
But we do, we really try tomake it plug and play.
(12:07):
We try to make it easy.
We tell them you know, if youreally want to make it as
evidence-based as possible, youwould use the whole curriculum,
but it's also designed to beable to be using the way that
you want it that best fits yourstudents and your group.
So that is important and wereally try to empower the
educators to know how to use thecurriculums.
(12:27):
And we even have down to thescript.
So we always tell teachers ifyou know a lot about cannabis,
for example, or fentanyl orwhatever it is, and you just
want to use the images on theslide, you're welcome, but we
have the script for you, becausea lot of educators don't know a
lot about these products.
And then the other thing thatwe are working on as a
partnership is not just trainingthe adults how to use the
(12:48):
curriculums, but training themto understand what are the drugs
that young people are using.
That was the talk I gave to thePTA last night, but educators
as well.
What is cannabis?
Why are we concerned about it?
What are the health effects?
So if they get asked thequestions from the students,
they know how to answer it.
So empowering them at everydifferent level is important.
Jerry Gretzinger (13:10):
Well, Pat, let me ask you now too, because, as
a contact who would be hearingfrom a lot of the folks with the
PTA or the schools in New York,I mean, what's the sort of
feedback that you're getting asto, you know the folks who put
some of this into place.
Pat Zuber-Wilson (13:21):
Oh, it's been absolutely amazing.
One of the first schooldistricts that actually
implemented the cannabis toolkitwas New York City Department of
Education, and when I speak tothe leadership in their
prevention world, they cannotsay enough about how not only
have the teachers and theirprevention counselors in the
(13:44):
schools really have embraced thecurriculum, but the students
really enjoy the curriculumbecause it is available and it's
reachable for them.
It's something that they canunderstand, they can relate to.
I think that has a lot to dowith the fact that the REACH Lab
(14:05):
has a youth advisory group andthat youth advisory group has
really led some of thatdiscussion on what does the
curriculum look like, and thereare things, t hat being, I won't
call us old, but we are olderadults.
Jerry Gretzinger (14:23):
We're not on the youth committee.
Pat Zuber-Wilson (14:25):
But there are things you know I use Facebook,
right, I use Instagram, butthey have other areas where
other social media platformsthat they use, and really to be
able to talk about how theseplatforms will do things like
really target advertisingtowards them, target information
(14:47):
towards them, be in the sameplace where the kids are talk
about the environment.
Kids are concerned about theenvironment.
So when you get to that sectionof the curriculum where they
talk about, what does cannabisproducts do to the environment?
What do the vaping devices doto the environment because they
aren't biodegradable?
(15:08):
How do the droplets gothroughout your ventilation
system in your home and affectyour pets and maybe younger
siblings?
Those are things that connectwith young people and I think
that has been what I've heardfrom our providers, what I've
heard from school districts thatare using the curriculum, what
I've heard from school districtsthat are using the curriculum
(15:29):
that the curriculum not onlyconnects with the teachers and
the faculty in a school and ourprevention professionals, but it
really reaches the kids.
Jerry Gretzinger (15:39):
Well, you know , as you were explaining that, I
was like well, that's aterrific idea and it makes so
much sense, right, Having ayouth committee that's involved
helping to develop thiscurriculum.
So it's not all of us oldpeople.
I'll speak for myself, trying tosay here here's how to do it
and here's what's going toconnect with kids.
You've got kids themselvesinvolved.
So I think there's so manydifferent aspects of this that
are making it successful.
(16:00):
And before we get to lettingpeople know what they can do if
they want to learn how toparticipate in this, I want to
ask you, dr Bonnie, a quickquestion, because if I was a
parent, I am a parent, but if Iwas out there listening and I
heard all this about like oh, wehave ideas on how you can talk
to kids and make a difference,I'd be wondering what could I do
right now, like what's the onetip, what's one thing you could
(16:20):
say to a parent or to aneducator about how you can make
a difference?
Is there one hard and fastthing that you find in every
single curriculum that is alwayslike well, we need to include
this.
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (16:31):
One of the things that I think excuse
me is go on our website,StanfordReachLab.
com, because you'll findeverything there.
We have information for parents, for other adults, for youth.
That's the first thing, but Iwould say it sounds so simple,
but talk, Talk to your students,Talk to your kids.
What I always say is say I justlistened to this podcast, this
(16:51):
is what I learned.
Hey, Johnny Sally, you want togo learn together, so make it
something that you do together.
It's not a lecture, it's notlet's sit down right now and let
me lecture you.
That doesn't work.
Learn together.
Find out.
You know they are younger.
What's the platform?
What's better?
Jerry Gretzinger (17:11):
Saying they're younger instead of we're older?
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (17:12):
There you go, yes, yes, they're
younger than we are, okay, soyou know, and don't say, hey,
does your friend use, becausethey're not going to out their
friends.
But is this something that youhave seen?
Are you concerned about it?
I'm concerned.
Can you help me learn as anadult?
Let the, let the student, thekids, teach you and go on the
websites together and have thatconversation and have the
conversation about you know,young people care about their
(17:34):
brains, they care about theirbodies, but they care about
being manipulated.
So if you can say, you know,what I've learned is these
commercials, these ads, are nottargeting me as a parent.
They're really targeting you.
What do you think about that?
Get young people mad.
And that's the best way to getthem involved, to not use and to
(17:55):
help start clubs or startcampaigns and things like that.
So empowering the young people,empowering the parents and
empowering them to work togetherwould be really important.
Jerry Gretzinger (18:04):
Great, great and I just love that simple as
talk, talk and listen, right.
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (18:08):
Talk and listen.
Jerry Gretzinger (18:09):
That's where it all begins, and we've said
that for years, right, Pat?
Pat Zuber-Wilson (18:12):
And those conversations, as Dr Bonnie said
, don't have one bigconversation.
You know, you're driving alongand you see things, or you hear
things, or picking up the kidsfrom soccer practice or cheer
practice, you say, hey, what'shappening here, and that really
starts the conversation, and soI can't agree more having two
(18:37):
adults now.
Jerry Gretzinger (18:40):
I'm just approaching that quickly myself.
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (18:43):
I used to have a colleague who was also
a developmental psychologistand she said, yeah, I scheduled
a meeting with my kids to talkto them about.
And I said, whoa, whoa whoa,whoa.
You're scheduling a meeting.
My own kids they're now 25 and29, but they would say that I
was the master at just coming uporganically with information,
and that's what you really haveto do, so capitalize on that.
(19:03):
The car rides, the sports.
Jerry Gretzinger (19:05):
Take those opportunities.
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (19:06):
Take those opportunities.
And again, not lecture but havea conversation.
Jerry Gretzinger (19:11):
So, bonnie I know you sort of mentioned the
website already and Pat, forboth of you.
If people are hearing this andsay, all right, I need to learn
more about how they put this inuse where I am.
What's the first step?
Pat Zuber-Wilson (19:21):
I think the first step is actually also
going to our website, oasas.
ny.
gov.
We have a full set of resourcesaround cannabis.
We have a cannabis toolkit forparents and mentors that was
developed.
So that's a starting point.
In addition, you knowconnecting with the REACH Lab
(19:42):
and, as I said, their materialsare free and it's really
wonderful.
When I first learned about theREACH Lab and the work that Dr
Bonnie's team does, I wentonline and I just played with
the curriculum and gotinformation and I said I never
thought about that.
Okay, this is great informationto share and give and put out
(20:04):
there in the community.
So we have the information onour website.
You can visit the REACH Labwebsite and then we'll get that
information.
We're here to be there tosupport parents, families and,
most importantly, our students.
Jerry Gretzinger (20:19):
That's what we're about.
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (20:20):
And one more thing, if I could add we
don't just have the curriculums,we also have infographics and
flyers.
So if you're a parent or ateacher or a health educator, a
clinician, and you want to haveposters, like around us here,
that you want to print, inaddition to OASAS having them,
we have some as well, and sopeople can take those and print
them.
Jerry Gretzinger (20:40):
And that's all right online.
It's all online it's freelyavailable.
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (20:43):
So we have stickers that you can
contact us for and things likethat.
So we just want to be able tohelp people.
That's what we care about ishelping.
Jerry Gretzinger (20:51):
Well, I'm sure this is definitely going to
help some people.
I'm glad we got to share theinformation.
Thank you both for taking thetime to sit down with us today.
Pat Zuber-Wilson (20:57):
Thank you.
Jerry Gretzinger (20:58):
And I'm sure this is still just the beginning
.
We'll continue to hear moregood work from OASAS and the
REACH Lab.
Hey, I'm Jerry Gretzinger forAddiction: The Next Step, just
want to remind you we sort ofput it out there a little bit
but our website oasas.
ny.
gov, that's O-A-S-A-S, dot, n-y,dot, g-o-v, and if you are
looking to talk to somebodyabout substance use or other
addiction concerns,877-8-HOPE-NY.
(21:20):
That's our hope line.
Until we see you next time.
Be well.
The New York State Office of Addiction Services and
Supports, or OASAS, providesthis podcast as a public service
.
Thoughts and opinions expresseddo not necessarily represent or
reflect those of the agency orstate.
This is Addiction (00:12):
The Next Step.
Jerry Gretzinger (00:22):
Hello there everybody.
Jerry Gretzinger here, yourhost of Addiction: The Next Step
, you know it's brought to youby the New York State Office of
Addiction Services and Supports,and, yeah, so we have two
guests joining us today in ourstudio and special guests,
special guests.
We've heard from one of thembefore.
The other one is a new guestthat's joining us and we're
talking about something that'spretty exciting.
It's a partnership that OASAShas with Stanford University and
(00:45):
the REACH Lab there and thegreat work that's happening
between these two organizations.
So let me tell you who we'vegot here.
Our returning guest is PatZuber-Wilson, who's here with us
today.
She leads up our preventionefforts here at the agency for
the last many, many years, doesa lot of good work with that,
and her partner over at Stanford, working on the initiatives
(01:05):
we'll be talking about, is DrBonnie Halpern-Felsher, and you
are the professor of pediatricsat the university and also the
director of the REACH Lab.
Welcome.
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (01:16):
Thank you so much.
Thank you for having us Now.
Jerry Gretzinger (01:17):
Pat, you've been here before, so you're
going to wait a moment.
We're going to start with DrBonnie.
I can call you Dr Bonnie, right?
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (01:22):
Please.
Jerry Gretzinger (01:23):
All right.
So we talked about the REACH Lab, right?
So before we get into what theREACH Lab is doing with OASAS,
tell us what is the REACH Lab?
Bonnie Halpern-Felsh (01:33):
Absolutely so, the REACH Lab.
It's a lab.
I just didn't want to be thehelper in a fulsher lab.
That was boring.
And REACH stands for Researchand Education to Empower
Adolescents and Young Adults toChoose Health, and that's what
we're all about.
We do research on adolescentsubstance use and other
potentially risky behaviors andthen we translate the research
that we and others do intopolicy and then into prevention
(01:53):
and intervention programs.
Jerry Gretzinger (01:55):
All right.
So that sounds like some prettylofty goals here, right,
because anything, I think whenyou're working with young people
it can be lofty because youhave to figure out what's the
best route to try to assist themas they go through those years.
But so when we talk about thepartnership with OASAS, right,
you know we obviously are veryconcerned with substance use and
the prevention of that in theyoung ages is key.
What's the sort of work that'sbeen happening within the REACH
(02:18):
lab that is, you know, criticaland useful to an agency like
ours?
Bonnie Halpern-Felsh (02:23):
Absolutely Well, one of the things I mean
a lot of labs are doing researchon why teens are using what our
teens are using in terms ofsubstances.
What we really do is the verypractical side of this.
So not only what are they using, why, how come, what are the
different products, but how dowe reach teens, how do we help
adolescents make healthierdecisions?
My research started I'm adevelopmental psychologist my
(02:44):
research started in adolescentdecision making.
So how do they make decisionsaround drug use and how do we
help prevent it?
And then, with the translationto the prevention programs, it's
very practical.
And then we talk a lot aboutharm reduction.
So saying to teens just say no,n-o, really doesn't work.
We know that from years andyears of experience.
(03:05):
So we really work on how do wehelp them say K-N-O-W, how do we
help them understand, changetheir attitudes, ideally prevent
all use.
But then, if they are using,how do we help them cut back,
quit or, if they still continueto use, at least keep them safe
and alive is really what we workon.
And then the novelty is we dohave these school-based and
(03:27):
community-based programs that webring to communities.
Jerry Gretzinger (03:31):
Yeah, I think that's so great too that you
know, obviously.
You know the first thing wewant to be able to do is to help
prevent substance use, butcertainly to kind of, you know,
complete that circle, that ifpeople have already started,
what can we do to help them?
Maybe cut back or stop?
Bonnie Halpern-Felsh (03:50):
Absolutely .
And if their friends are using,how do we help a peer, help
their friend?
Or, in the case of, say,fentanyl, carry Narcan, or make
sure that they know how to testtheir product and be safe around
it.
So it's really is building upcommunity capacity, whether it's
with young people, theirparents, their teachers, their
community supports to keep themsafe.
Jerry Gretzinger (04:04):
Now I mean again, as I said before, pretty
lofty goals here, and this isnot something that you started
last week and said, hey, we cameup with a couple of good ideas.
How long have you been workingon this?
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (04:14):
Well, I've been doing research on
adolescent substance use,starting with tobacco gosh,
probably in 2000, maybe evenbefore that, and then our
curriculums.
We actually started buildingcurriculums in 2009.
And, yes, it took many years tobring our first curriculum to
the communities and now we buildcommunity.
Excuse me, we build curriculumsall the time, but it does take
(04:35):
a lot of time.
And we build our curriculumswith our community.
And when I say community, Imean young people, I don't mean
just my Stanford communityacross the country, but we work
with young people.
We work with parents andeducators and healthcare
providers to make sure that whatwe build is accurate, relevant
and would have the reach of theREACH Lab to be able to really
(04:57):
bring it.
And if you build something thata teacher doesn't want to use
or a young person doesn't like,they're not going to use it.
So it takes longer, but we feellike we're doing the steps to
make it right.
Jerry Gretzinger (05:08):
All right, so I'm going to back up a little
bit here.
You talked about thecurriculums that are developed
and how teachers can put theminto place.
So really, that's what a lot ofthat research goes towards,
right how can we take what we'velearned and then give it to
people in a useful format soteachers can use it in a
classroom, can communicate withstudents and start making
inroads with them that way?
That's kind of where this allheads towards.
Bonnie Halpern-Felsh (05:30):
Absolutely .
Very important.
Jerry Gretzinger (05:32):
And so now I'm going to let Pat talk a little
bit.
So, Pat, when these curriculumsare developed right and you
work with Bonnie on these thingsand the rest of the team, those
curriculums I'm assuming theycome to an agency like ours to
help push them out, to kind ofget them in use.
Yes?
Pat Zuber-Wilson (05:49):
Absolutely.
We've been working with thefolks at the REACH Lab, Dr
Bonney, for since 2024, I thinkwe started with some.
They were gracious enough towork with us in terms of doing
some webinars with our providerfield, working with our school
districts.
We've developed a partnershipwith State Ed, also a
(06:12):
partnership with the New YorkState PTA, so we are getting the
information out.
The wonderful thing that wetruly appreciate about the REACH
Lab and their curriculum arethey're free to use and so that
has really been a benefit to ournot only our provider system,
but also school districts havesent individuals to come to the
(06:36):
trainings that the REACH Lab hasdone in New York State.
They've done in-person training,They've done virtual training
for us and, a matter of fact,last night Dr Bonnie did a
webinar for parents through andin partnership with the New York
State PTA.
So we're really getting theword out and getting information
(06:58):
out that is factual and comesthrough an approach that reaches
young people where they are,and I think that's the thing
that we've heard already forthose providers, those school
districts that are already usingthe curriculum, that it's
something that a teacher or oneof our prevention providers can
(07:19):
really make adjustments so thecurriculum looks like the kids
that are in the classroom, thatit looks like the communities
where they are from.
So if you do it in New YorkCity, if you do the curriculum
in New York City, you don't wantthe farms and the fields, you
want the community that lookslike New York City.
So it's been a greatpartnership and a great
(07:39):
opportunity for not only ouragency but the people that we
serve.
Jerry Gretzinger (07:44):
That's terrific.
Now we're talking talking aboutcurriculums too, and you know,
as Pat was just saying, they'rekind of tailored for where
they're going to be put to use,and I'm assuming too, there's
not just one curriculum thatsays, oh, now we'll make it for
the city, now we'll make it forthe country.
Is it broken up by age groupand region?
And how do you determine thedifferent curriculums you're
using?
Bonnie Halpern-Felsh (08:04):
Absolutely .
It's a great question andhonestly the need is so big we'd
be nonstop with it.
So first, the big picture ofthe curriculums.
We have one called Smart Talkand that is specifically on
cannabis prevention, and thatone, as well as our you and Me
Together Vape Free, which is ourvaping prevention curriculum.
Both of those are two lessonsfor elementary, so yes, there's
(08:25):
an elementary version.
And then we have a middle andhigh school version and those
are five or six lessons.
So the big difference therewould be that we're not
necessarily making everypossible region that would be
very difficult but we really tryto have it broad enough that it
works, but also some specificimages and we tell educators
that they are welcome to.
(08:46):
We use canvas slides, they'rewelcome to then download and
alter the pictures, or we willwork with them and like we're
working with New York State or,excuse me, New York City, to
make sure that that curriculumis most relevant to New York
City.
So it is.
The science certainly doesn'tchange, the decision making
doesn't change, but, like Patwas saying, the images might
change, the length of thecurriculum changes, the
(09:08):
classroom lengths might be alittle shorter, a little bit
longer.
So that's a lot of what we'redoing.
Sometimes the activities willchange, so we're working on that
.
So that's our smart talk andour you and me.
We also have Safety First.
Safety First is ourcomprehensive drug education
curriculum.
That is actually 13 lessons,but we certainly don't expect
every school to use all 13.
(09:28):
That covers brain developmentand brains on drugs.
It covers heart and lungs andthe rest of the body.
It covers stress and coping.
We know young people are usingbecause they're so stressed.
So some of the things we talkabout is deep breathing and how
to deal with it.
And then we talk about how tonot use or reduce your risk if
(09:49):
you are using of every drugcategory that's out there
hallucinogens, alcohol, cannabis, tobacco, fentanyl you name it.
So that's important.
And then we have our cessationprogram.
So our Healthy Futures it's analternative to suspension
program really important to usto and we were actually talking
about this at the state meetingthe other day, the conference
(10:12):
not only meeting young peoplewhere they're at, but
recognizing that if you areusing and I suspend you, you're
just going to go home andcontinue using and I'm not
getting at the root of theproblem, the root of the problem
being the root of the problembeing stress, being family
dynamics, being whatever mightbe going on.
So really working with theyoung person, meeting them where
they're at and helping themquit, helping them deal with the
(10:32):
underlying problems, and that'swhat our Healthy Futures
curriculum does.
And then we have specific forLGBTQ, talking about the
environment that's particularlyimportant for rural communities,
and so on, talking about theenvironment that's particularly
important for rural communities,and so on.
So we really try hard to listento our partners, our
communities and tailor ourcurriculums as best we can.
Jerry Gretzinger (10:51):
Yeah, and I think what you were just
describing kind of is soimportant, because you don't
always want to try to takeeverybody and fit them into one
mold.
It's like sometimes that squarepeg is not going to fit in that
round hole, right, but it seemslike you've been able to take
the time and the research tofigure out who are the different
groups out there that canbenefit from this and then
tailor these curriculums tothose groups.
(11:12):
And so, along those lines too,you know, I think about some of
the folks who may be, you knowthe ones who are delivering this
information and we talked about, you know, teachers and schools
and such.
You talked about doing thetrainings, the webinars and such
, because I have to think too,you know, for teachers.
You go to them and say, allright, so whatever you've been
doing, there may be a better way, we may have a new way of doing
(11:32):
this could be more impactful,and some of them may look at
that like, oh gosh, I've alreadygot so much, I've got going on
already.
How am I going to pull this off?
I'm assuming the trainings helpthem figure out.
Here's exactly how you can pullit off and not make it such a
heavy lift for them.
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (11:47):
Yeah, that's exactly right and that's
one of the other things that'ssuch a wonderful partnership is
we can work together with theteachers.
But that's absolutely right,and some of the teachers we're
training are not necessarilyclassroom educators.
They might be after schoolprogram specialists or
counselors or Saturday schoolpeople a number of different
groups.
But we do, we really try tomake it plug and play.
(12:07):
We try to make it easy.
We tell them you know, if youreally want to make it as
evidence-based as possible, youwould use the whole curriculum,
but it's also designed to beable to be using the way that
you want it that best fits yourstudents and your group.
So that is important and wereally try to empower the
educators to know how to use thecurriculums.
(12:27):
And we even have down to thescript.
So we always tell teachers ifyou know a lot about cannabis,
for example, or fentanyl orwhatever it is, and you just
want to use the images on theslide, you're welcome, but we
have the script for you, becausea lot of educators don't know a
lot about these products.
And then the other thing thatwe are working on as a
partnership is not just trainingthe adults how to use the
(12:48):
curriculums, but training themto understand what are the drugs
that young people are using.
That was the talk I gave to thePTA last night, but educators
as well.
What is cannabis?
Why are we concerned about it?
What are the health effects?
So if they get asked thequestions from the students,
they know how to answer it.
So empowering them at everydifferent level is important.
Jerry Gretzinger (13:10):
Well, Pat, let me ask you now too, because, as
a contact who would be hearingfrom a lot of the folks with the
PTA or the schools in New York,I mean, what's the sort of
feedback that you're getting asto, you know the folks who put
some of this into place.
Pat Zuber-Wilson (13:21):
Oh, it's been absolutely amazing.
One of the first schooldistricts that actually
implemented the cannabis toolkitwas New York City Department of
Education, and when I speak tothe leadership in their
prevention world, they cannotsay enough about how not only
have the teachers and theirprevention counselors in the
(13:44):
schools really have embraced thecurriculum, but the students
really enjoy the curriculumbecause it is available and it's
reachable for them.
It's something that they canunderstand, they can relate to.
I think that has a lot to dowith the fact that the REACH Lab
(14:05):
has a youth advisory group andthat youth advisory group has
really led some of thatdiscussion on what does the
curriculum look like, and thereare things, t hat being, I won't
call us old, but we are olderadults.
Jerry Gretzinger (14:23):
We're not on the youth committee.
Pat Zuber-Wilson (14:25):
But there are things you know I use Facebook,
right, I use Instagram, butthey have other areas where
other social media platformsthat they use, and really to be
able to talk about how theseplatforms will do things like
really target advertisingtowards them, target information
(14:47):
towards them, be in the sameplace where the kids are talk
about the environment.
Kids are concerned about theenvironment.
So when you get to that sectionof the curriculum where they
talk about, what does cannabisproducts do to the environment?
What do the vaping devices doto the environment because they
aren't biodegradable?
(15:08):
How do the droplets gothroughout your ventilation
system in your home and affectyour pets and maybe younger
siblings?
Those are things that connectwith young people and I think
that has been what I've heardfrom our providers, what I've
heard from school districts thatare using the curriculum, what
I've heard from school districtsthat are using the curriculum
(15:29):
that the curriculum not onlyconnects with the teachers and
the faculty in a school and ourprevention professionals, but it
really reaches the kids.
Jerry Gretzinger (15:39):
Well, you know , as you were explaining that, I
was like well, that's aterrific idea and it makes so
much sense, right, Having ayouth committee that's involved
helping to develop thiscurriculum.
So it's not all of us oldpeople.
I'll speak for myself, trying tosay here here's how to do it
and here's what's going toconnect with kids.
You've got kids themselvesinvolved.
So I think there's so manydifferent aspects of this that
are making it successful.
(16:00):
And before we get to lettingpeople know what they can do if
they want to learn how toparticipate in this, I want to
ask you, dr Bonnie, a quickquestion, because if I was a
parent, I am a parent, but if Iwas out there listening and I
heard all this about like oh, wehave ideas on how you can talk
to kids and make a difference,I'd be wondering what could I do
right now, like what's the onetip, what's one thing you could
(16:20):
say to a parent or to aneducator about how you can make
a difference?
Is there one hard and fastthing that you find in every
single curriculum that is alwayslike well, we need to include
this.
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (16:31):
One of the things that I think excuse
me is go on our website,StanfordReachLab.
com, because you'll findeverything there.
We have information for parents, for other adults, for youth.
That's the first thing, but Iwould say it sounds so simple,
but talk, Talk to your students,Talk to your kids.
What I always say is say I justlistened to this podcast, this
(16:51):
is what I learned.
Hey, Johnny Sally, you want togo learn together, so make it
something that you do together.
It's not a lecture, it's notlet's sit down right now and let
me lecture you.
That doesn't work.
Learn together.
Find out.
You know they are younger.
What's the platform?
What's better?
Jerry Gretzinger (17:11):
Saying they're younger instead of we're older?
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (17:12):
There you go, yes, yes, they're
younger than we are, okay, soyou know, and don't say, hey,
does your friend use, becausethey're not going to out their
friends.
But is this something that youhave seen?
Are you concerned about it?
I'm concerned.
Can you help me learn as anadult?
Let the, let the student, thekids, teach you and go on the
websites together and have thatconversation and have the
conversation about you know,young people care about their
(17:34):
brains, they care about theirbodies, but they care about
being manipulated.
So if you can say, you know,what I've learned is these
commercials, these ads, are nottargeting me as a parent.
They're really targeting you.
What do you think about that?
Get young people mad.
And that's the best way to getthem involved, to not use and to
(17:55):
help start clubs or startcampaigns and things like that.
So empowering the young people,empowering the parents and
empowering them to work togetherwould be really important.
Jerry Gretzinger (18:04):
Great, great and I just love that simple as
talk, talk and listen, right.
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (18:08):
Talk and listen.
Jerry Gretzinger (18:09):
That's where it all begins, and we've said
that for years, right, Pat?
Pat Zuber-Wilson (18:12):
And those conversations, as Dr Bonnie said
, don't have one bigconversation.
You know, you're driving alongand you see things, or you hear
things, or picking up the kidsfrom soccer practice or cheer
practice, you say, hey, what'shappening here, and that really
starts the conversation, and soI can't agree more having two
(18:37):
adults now.
Jerry Gretzinger (18:40):
I'm just approaching that quickly myself.
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (18:43):
I used to have a colleague who was also
a developmental psychologistand she said, yeah, I scheduled
a meeting with my kids to talkto them about.
And I said, whoa, whoa whoa,whoa.
You're scheduling a meeting.
My own kids they're now 25 and29, but they would say that I
was the master at just coming uporganically with information,
and that's what you really haveto do, so capitalize on that.
(19:03):
The car rides, the sports.
Jerry Gretzinger (19:05):
Take those opportunities.
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (19:06):
Take those opportunities.
And again, not lecture but havea conversation.
Jerry Gretzinger (19:11):
So, bonnie I know you sort of mentioned the
website already and Pat, forboth of you.
If people are hearing this andsay, all right, I need to learn
more about how they put this inuse where I am.
What's the first step?
Pat Zuber-Wilson (19:21):
I think the first step is actually also
going to our website, oasas.
ny.
gov.
We have a full set of resourcesaround cannabis.
We have a cannabis toolkit forparents and mentors that was
developed.
So that's a starting point.
In addition, you knowconnecting with the REACH Lab
(19:42):
and, as I said, their materialsare free and it's really
wonderful.
When I first learned about theREACH Lab and the work that Dr
Bonnie's team does, I wentonline and I just played with
the curriculum and gotinformation and I said I never
thought about that.
Okay, this is great informationto share and give and put out
(20:04):
there in the community.
So we have the information onour website.
You can visit the REACH Labwebsite and then we'll get that
information.
We're here to be there tosupport parents, families and,
most importantly, our students.
Jerry Gretzinger (20:19):
That's what we're about.
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (20:20):
And one more thing, if I could add we
don't just have the curriculums,we also have infographics and
flyers.
So if you're a parent or ateacher or a health educator, a
clinician, and you want to haveposters, like around us here,
that you want to print, inaddition to OASAS having them,
we have some as well, and sopeople can take those and print
them.
Jerry Gretzinger (20:40):
And that's all right online.
It's all online it's freelyavailable.
Bonnie Halpern-Felsher (20:43):
So we have stickers that you can
contact us for and things likethat.
So we just want to be able tohelp people.
That's what we care about ishelping.
Jerry Gretzinger (20:51):
Well, I'm sure this is definitely going to
help some people.
I'm glad we got to share theinformation.
Thank you both for taking thetime to sit down with us today.
Pat Zuber-Wilson (20:57):
Thank you.
Jerry Gretzinger (20:58):
And I'm sure this is still just the beginning
.
We'll continue to hear moregood work from OASAS and the
REACH Lab.
Hey, I'm Jerry Gretzinger forAddiction: The Next Step, just
want to remind you we sort ofput it out there a little bit
but our website oasas.
ny.
gov, that's O-A-S-A-S, dot, n-y,dot, g-o-v, and if you are
looking to talk to somebodyabout substance use or other
addiction concerns,877-8-HOPE-NY.
(21:20):
That's our hope line.
Until we see you next time.
Be well.
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