Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Isabel Byon (00:00):
The New York State Office of Addiction Services and
Supports, or OASAS, providesthis podcast as a public service
.
Thoughts and opinions expresseddo not necessarily represent or
reflect those of the agency orstate.
This is Addiction (00:13):
The Next Step.
Jerry Gretzinger (00:19):
This is Addiction the Next Step the
podcast brought to you by theNew York State Office of
Addiction Services and Supports.
I'm your host, Jerry Gretzinger.
Thanks for listening today,everybody, and so our topic,
today, we're going to talk aboutsomething that we've actually
touched on several times, andthat is the addiction workforce.
As you know from our previousinterviews, even with
Commissioner Cunningham, we'vetalked about how important it is
(00:41):
to be able to continue to buildthe workforce, the people who
can provide the services andsupports to those coming to seek
them out, and there's a lotthat's being done to help that,
and one of those things is afellowship program, and that's
what we're going to get intotoday.
Sitting here with me to discussthis a little bit more is Dr.
Tolani Ajagbe, and thanks somuch for sitting down with us.
You are the program directorfor OASAS, the Interdisciplinary
(01:04):
Addiction Fellowship at SUNYUpstate Medical University.
Thanks for being here.
Tolani Ajagbe (01:09):
Thanks for having me.
Jerry Gretzinger (01:10):
So you know, let's first kind of set the
stage a bit.
I mentioned about the issueswith workforce and supporting
the development of the workforce.
How important is that and kindof what is the current climate
of it?
Tolani Ajagbe (01:21):
Yeah, thank you very much, and thanks for having
me once again.
The workforce crisis is veryominous at this point.
We know that even pre-COVID,we've been having a lot of
challenges in that area, andthat's especially gotten worse
since COVID.
Unfortunately, we've seen avery huge spike in number of
(01:42):
people who are seeking treatmentfor addiction services, but
we've also seen a decline innumber of people who are
interested in going to the fieldbecause of the difficulties and
challenges involved.
So I believe this fellowship isone of the most innovative and
transformative ideas I've seento address a very huge public
(02:04):
health issue, and I'm reallyvery excited about it.
Jerry Gretzinger (02:08):
And really the result of everyone
acknowledging that there is aneed for services and not enough
people to help provide them.
And so too, I think people haveprobably heard.
You know we're talking about.
You know there's the workforcecrisis, there's the overdose
epidemic that we talk about, andyou know, recently we've been
able to very happily say we'veseen numbers start to come back
(02:29):
a little bit as far as thoseoverdose numbers, but certainly
it's not so much of a reductionwhere we're out of the woods or
even close to knowing where theend of the woods are, and so we
still want to continue the workwe're doing, continue to step it
up, and certainly thisfellowship is a part of it.
We've had episodes where we'vetalked about the scholarship
program, and that is similar inwhat it seeks to do, but, as you
(02:53):
say, this fellowship program isa whole other level.
So I'm going to ask you toexplain how this works.
I know there are somerequirements for people who want
to be a part of this, so I'lllet you take the stage here and
kind of walk us through it.
Tolani Ajagbe (03:06):
Yeah, thank you very much.
So the fellowship itself is aOASAS-funded program, substance
use disorder program thatrecruits.
It's an interdisciplinaryfellowship.
So basically this program isdesigned such that people who
are actually interested in thefield of addiction are able to
actually subspecialize.
(03:28):
So my own specific there arefour different programs in the
state but the one that we haveat SUNY Upstate Medical
University is designed such thatpeople who are licensed in
other fields or who are licensedor who graduated in a more
neutral degree are able toeither subspecialize or
specialize in addiction.
(03:48):
So we have people at differentprofessional levels.
We have MD doctors, we havenurse practitioners.
We're open to recruiting PAs,physician assistants, we have
nurses, we have social workers.
We have people who are CASACcertified.
We have people who arenon-CASAC certified.
We actually have peers -certified peer recovery
(04:09):
advocates who also are able toparticipate in the fellowship.
So we have a total of 16positions, of which we've
actually filled 14 already,including providers.
So these are people who havetraining.
The doctor that we have in thefellowship is an emergency
(04:29):
department trade doctor who hasworked in the ED for 24 years
but now she decided she wants toactually do some kind of
self-specialization in addiction.
So those are the kind of peoplewe open the door for.
They have the interest but theydon't have the training and
they sometimes don't want to gothrough the regals of going
through the formal, long,extensive training with a huge
(04:49):
pay cut and that kind of stuff.
So this fellowship is actuallyable to do two things provide
that level of training and atthe same time not make them have
to give up a level ofremuneration that they're
accustomed to or not have anysuffering from being in the
training.
So, it's been a verytransformative and highly
received program.
Jerry Gretzinger (05:11):
Yeah, all right.
So again, just to kind ofsummarize, this is for people
who have some training, but nowthey want to have that
subspecialty of addictionmedicine and treatment to be
able to do that.
Yes, and it does as a fellowshipdoes.
It provides you are paid toparticipate.
Yes, yeah, absolutely.
And so I would think, like youwere saying, for a lot of people
this gives them thatopportunity to pursue that
(05:32):
interest without feeling thatthey're going to have to take a
step backwards.
Yes, absolutely yes.
And so, again, I mentioned thescholarship.
So this is kind of like, again,as I said, a different level of
this.
The scholarship is for peoplewho have an interest, want to
start their training, be new tothe field, but this is for those
people who've kind of they'vegot some background and want to
just expand on that, to be ableto focus on this exclusively
Tolani Ajagbe (05:54):
Yeah and remain competitive financially in life.
So it affords them bothopportunities.
Jerry Gretzinger (06:00):
And similar to what we say in so many
different areas of addiction isit's removing those barriers.
Tolani Ajagbe (06:04):
Yes, absolutely yes.
Jerry Gretzinger (06:06):
So if somebody hears this and they're like,
okay, yeah, I'm sort of in thatboat, I'm definitely interested.
I'd like to be involved andmake a difference.
What are the things they needto know?
Like we talked about thequalifications, the requirements
that they need, what else isimportant for them to understand
or be able to provide ?
Tolani Ajagbe (06:23):
So the requirement, the tool that I
personally believe is that youhave to have a genuine interest
in helping people in making achange right.
This is not lost on anyone.
The addiction is becoming.
It's the number one publichealth crisis in the United
States, for instance, sinceCOVID.
Right, it was before COVID andit's still after COVID, and
(06:44):
you've seen overdose rates andall that.
If you are motivated to help inany kind of way, this would be
one of the fields, and I alsoknow that people they need to
understand that there's been alot of changes in the field of
addiction, such that it's nothow things used to be, where we
tell patients that, hey, aprogram-centered approach to
(07:05):
care, we're in apatient-centered approach to
care at this point and there'sso many aspects of addiction
that are actually much morerewarding than we've had in the
past.
So all you need, if you ask mepersonally, is a determination
and a dedication to help, to agenuine interest in the field.
(07:27):
And, like we talk about thequalifications, those ones are
set on paper but you justgenerally need to have a genuine
interest in helping people whosuffer from addiction.
Jerry Gretzinger (07:37):
Yeah, and the more people that we can bring on
who have that interest, thegreater it's going to be for
everyone,
Tolani Ajagbe (07:42):
Absolutely
Jerry Gretzinger (07:43):
So, t he information, if people want to
start the process, I know justlike everything it's online.
I think it's at the OASASwebsite, correct?
Yes, and so we would suggestprobably the easiest way for
people to find it is to getonline.
You can actually just GoogleOASAS, o-a-s-a-s
Interdisciplinary AddictionFellowship Program.
(08:04):
Yes, and that will take youright there to the information.
If you want to go to thewebsite and search for it, you
can.
But again, you know that oldGoogle machine that does some
good work.
Tolani Ajagbe (08:12):
Yeah, I think the specific site is in the OAS
website, the Substance UseDisorder Addiction Fellowship,
so you'll see it under there.
Jerry Gretzinger (08:23):
All right, so put that into the Google search
then and it'll bring it.
We want to make sure peoplefind the right thing so they can
get started with this becauseit is.
It's a great program.
It's a great opportunity forpeople, but not just for the
people who want to pursue this,the people who will benefit from
them becoming part of theaddiction workforce.
Tolani Ajagbe (08:42):
Yeah, one more thing I should add is for them
to also know that the academicyear starts typically on the 1st
of July and runs till the 30thof June of the following year.
It's a one-year fellowship, andso sometimes we bring people on
off-cycle if they're not ableto start that time, but they
should expect to be in thefellowship for a year.
Jerry Gretzinger (09:00):
So you talk about July to June.
I mean, what's the proper timefor someone to start the process
, or is any time the right time?
Tolani Ajagbe (09:08):
Any time before then, I would say at least a
month or two so thatadministratively we can onboard
them, but any time, probably upto like a month or two before
then, but whatever time.
Sometimes you time it with thethem, but anytime, probably up
to like a month or two beforethen, but whatever time, you
know.
Sometimes you time it with thetime people are graduating from
school and all that.
So whatever time you're ready,let us know.
We have people who start offcycle as well, so anytime is
(09:28):
okay with us.
Excellent.
Jerry Gretzinger (09:29):
All right, Dr.
Talani Ajagbe.
Thank you so much for sittingdown and talking with us today.
Thanks for having me and justsome more information we'll
share with you.
If you are looking forinformation about this or about
anything else with addictionservices and supports, you can
go to oasas.
ny.
gov, o-a-s-a-s, dot N-Y, dotG-O-V, and, of course, you've
always got our hope line.
It's 877-8-HOPE-N-Y.
(09:50):
I'm Jerry Gretzinger.
This is Addiction (09:51):
The Next Step.
Thanks for listening to us anduntil we talk to you again, be
well, thank you.
The New York State Office of Addiction Services and
Supports, or OASAS, providesthis podcast as a public service
.
Thoughts and opinions expresseddo not necessarily represent or
reflect those of the agency orstate.
This is Addiction (00:13):
The Next Step.
Jerry Gretzinger (00:19):
This is Addiction the Next Step the
podcast brought to you by theNew York State Office of
Addiction Services and Supports.
I'm your host, Jerry Gretzinger.
Thanks for listening today,everybody, and so our topic,
today, we're going to talk aboutsomething that we've actually
touched on several times, andthat is the addiction workforce.
As you know from our previousinterviews, even with
Commissioner Cunningham, we'vetalked about how important it is
(00:41):
to be able to continue to buildthe workforce, the people who
can provide the services andsupports to those coming to seek
them out, and there's a lotthat's being done to help that,
and one of those things is afellowship program, and that's
what we're going to get intotoday.
Sitting here with me to discussthis a little bit more is Dr.
Tolani Ajagbe, and thanks somuch for sitting down with us.
You are the program directorfor OASAS, the Interdisciplinary
(01:04):
Addiction Fellowship at SUNYUpstate Medical University.
Thanks for being here.
Tolani Ajagbe (01:09):
Thanks for having me.
Jerry Gretzinger (01:10):
So you know, let's first kind of set the
stage a bit.
I mentioned about the issueswith workforce and supporting
the development of the workforce.
How important is that and kindof what is the current climate
of it?
Tolani Ajagbe (01:21):
Yeah, thank you very much, and thanks for having
me once again.
The workforce crisis is veryominous at this point.
We know that even pre-COVID,we've been having a lot of
challenges in that area, andthat's especially gotten worse
since COVID.
Unfortunately, we've seen avery huge spike in number of
(01:42):
people who are seeking treatmentfor addiction services, but
we've also seen a decline innumber of people who are
interested in going to the fieldbecause of the difficulties and
challenges involved.
So I believe this fellowship isone of the most innovative and
transformative ideas I've seento address a very huge public
(02:04):
health issue, and I'm reallyvery excited about it.
Jerry Gretzinger (02:08):
And really the result of everyone
acknowledging that there is aneed for services and not enough
people to help provide them.
And so too, I think people haveprobably heard.
You know we're talking about.
You know there's the workforcecrisis, there's the overdose
epidemic that we talk about, andyou know, recently we've been
able to very happily say we'veseen numbers start to come back
(02:29):
a little bit as far as thoseoverdose numbers, but certainly
it's not so much of a reductionwhere we're out of the woods or
even close to knowing where theend of the woods are, and so we
still want to continue the workwe're doing, continue to step it
up, and certainly thisfellowship is a part of it.
We've had episodes where we'vetalked about the scholarship
program, and that is similar inwhat it seeks to do, but, as you
(02:53):
say, this fellowship program isa whole other level.
So I'm going to ask you toexplain how this works.
I know there are somerequirements for people who want
to be a part of this, so I'lllet you take the stage here and
kind of walk us through it.
Tolani Ajagbe (03:06):
Yeah, thank you very much.
So the fellowship itself is aOASAS-funded program, substance
use disorder program thatrecruits.
It's an interdisciplinaryfellowship.
So basically this program isdesigned such that people who
are actually interested in thefield of addiction are able to
actually subspecialize.
(03:28):
So my own specific there arefour different programs in the
state but the one that we haveat SUNY Upstate Medical
University is designed such thatpeople who are licensed in
other fields or who are licensedor who graduated in a more
neutral degree are able toeither subspecialize or
specialize in addiction.
(03:48):
So we have people at differentprofessional levels.
We have MD doctors, we havenurse practitioners.
We're open to recruiting PAs,physician assistants, we have
nurses, we have social workers.
We have people who are CASACcertified.
We have people who arenon-CASAC certified.
We actually have peers -certified peer recovery
(04:09):
advocates who also are able toparticipate in the fellowship.
So we have a total of 16positions, of which we've
actually filled 14 already,including providers.
So these are people who havetraining.
The doctor that we have in thefellowship is an emergency
(04:29):
department trade doctor who hasworked in the ED for 24 years
but now she decided she wants toactually do some kind of
self-specialization in addiction.
So those are the kind of peoplewe open the door for.
They have the interest but theydon't have the training and
they sometimes don't want to gothrough the regals of going
through the formal, long,extensive training with a huge
(04:49):
pay cut and that kind of stuff.
So this fellowship is actuallyable to do two things provide
that level of training and atthe same time not make them have
to give up a level ofremuneration that they're
accustomed to or not have anysuffering from being in the
training.
So, it's been a verytransformative and highly
received program.
Jerry Gretzinger (05:11):
Yeah, all right.
So again, just to kind ofsummarize, this is for people
who have some training, but nowthey want to have that
subspecialty of addictionmedicine and treatment to be
able to do that.
Yes, and it does as a fellowshipdoes.
It provides you are paid toparticipate.
Yes, yeah, absolutely.
And so I would think, like youwere saying, for a lot of people
this gives them thatopportunity to pursue that
(05:32):
interest without feeling thatthey're going to have to take a
step backwards.
Yes, absolutely yes.
And so, again, I mentioned thescholarship.
So this is kind of like, again,as I said, a different level of
this.
The scholarship is for peoplewho have an interest, want to
start their training, be new tothe field, but this is for those
people who've kind of they'vegot some background and want to
just expand on that, to be ableto focus on this exclusively
Tolani Ajagbe (05:54):
Yeah and remain competitive financially in life.
So it affords them bothopportunities.
Jerry Gretzinger (06:00):
And similar to what we say in so many
different areas of addiction isit's removing those barriers.
Tolani Ajagbe (06:04):
Yes, absolutely yes.
Jerry Gretzinger (06:06):
So if somebody hears this and they're like,
okay, yeah, I'm sort of in thatboat, I'm definitely interested.
I'd like to be involved andmake a difference.
What are the things they needto know?
Like we talked about thequalifications, the requirements
that they need, what else isimportant for them to understand
or be able to provide ?
Tolani Ajagbe (06:23):
So the requirement, the tool that I
personally believe is that youhave to have a genuine interest
in helping people in making achange right.
This is not lost on anyone.
The addiction is becoming.
It's the number one publichealth crisis in the United
States, for instance, sinceCOVID.
Right, it was before COVID andit's still after COVID, and
(06:44):
you've seen overdose rates andall that.
If you are motivated to help inany kind of way, this would be
one of the fields, and I alsoknow that people they need to
understand that there's been alot of changes in the field of
addiction, such that it's nothow things used to be, where we
tell patients that, hey, aprogram-centered approach to
(07:05):
care, we're in apatient-centered approach to
care at this point and there'sso many aspects of addiction
that are actually much morerewarding than we've had in the
past.
So all you need, if you ask mepersonally, is a determination
and a dedication to help, to agenuine interest in the field.
(07:27):
And, like we talk about thequalifications, those ones are
set on paper but you justgenerally need to have a genuine
interest in helping people whosuffer from addiction.
Jerry Gretzinger (07:37):
Yeah, and the more people that we can bring on
who have that interest, thegreater it's going to be for
everyone,
Tolani Ajagbe (07:42):
Absolutely
Jerry Gretzinger (07:43):
So, t he information, if people want to
start the process, I know justlike everything it's online.
I think it's at the OASASwebsite, correct?
Yes, and so we would suggestprobably the easiest way for
people to find it is to getonline.
You can actually just GoogleOASAS, o-a-s-a-s
Interdisciplinary AddictionFellowship Program.
(08:04):
Yes, and that will take youright there to the information.
If you want to go to thewebsite and search for it, you
can.
But again, you know that oldGoogle machine that does some
good work.
Tolani Ajagbe (08:12):
Yeah, I think the specific site is in the OAS
website, the Substance UseDisorder Addiction Fellowship,
so you'll see it under there.
Jerry Gretzinger (08:23):
All right, so put that into the Google search
then and it'll bring it.
We want to make sure peoplefind the right thing so they can
get started with this becauseit is.
It's a great program.
It's a great opportunity forpeople, but not just for the
people who want to pursue this,the people who will benefit from
them becoming part of theaddiction workforce.
Tolani Ajagbe (08:42):
Yeah, one more thing I should add is for them
to also know that the academicyear starts typically on the 1st
of July and runs till the 30thof June of the following year.
It's a one-year fellowship, andso sometimes we bring people on
off-cycle if they're not ableto start that time, but they
should expect to be in thefellowship for a year.
Jerry Gretzinger (09:00):
So you talk about July to June.
I mean, what's the proper timefor someone to start the process
, or is any time the right time?
Tolani Ajagbe (09:08):
Any time before then, I would say at least a
month or two so thatadministratively we can onboard
them, but any time, probably upto like a month or two before
then, but whatever time.
Sometimes you time it with thethem, but anytime, probably up
to like a month or two beforethen, but whatever time, you
know.
Sometimes you time it with thetime people are graduating from
school and all that.
So whatever time you're ready,let us know.
We have people who start offcycle as well, so anytime is
(09:28):
okay with us.
Excellent.
Jerry Gretzinger (09:29):
All right, Dr.
Talani Ajagbe.
Thank you so much for sittingdown and talking with us today.
Thanks for having me and justsome more information we'll
share with you.
If you are looking forinformation about this or about
anything else with addictionservices and supports, you can
go to oasas.
ny.
gov, o-a-s-a-s, dot N-Y, dotG-O-V, and, of course, you've
always got our hope line.
It's 877-8-HOPE-N-Y.
(09:50):
I'm Jerry Gretzinger.
This is Addiction (09:51):
The Next Step.
Thanks for listening to us anduntil we talk to you again, be
well, thank you.
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