August 17, 2025 • 18 mins
Ever wondered why “pay in four” buttons feel irresistible? They’re designed to exploit ADHD brain wiring—leveraging executive function deficits, dopamine manipulation, working memory overload, and future blindness.
Services like Klarna, Afterpay, and Affirm thrive on “phantom debt,” with the average person juggling 9+ payment plans and paying hefty merchant fees and penalties. Millennials and Gen Z—especially those with lower credit scores—are prime targets.
I share three harm-reduction strategies, including limiting yourself to 1–2 payment plans and finding non-spending dopamine boosts. That’s why I created the UnBudget—a free ADHD-friendly money system that works with your brain, not against it. Link in description.
Know what you can really spend, in under 1 hour, no overwhelm. Grab free access here → https://unbudgetlite.shamelessmoney.com/
Check out ShamelessMoney.com to work with me directly!
Head over to our YouTube channel for the full experience on future episodes.
Learn more about ADHD-friendly financial coaching
Follow me on YouTube
Subscribe to the newsletter
Head over to our YouTube channel for the full experience on future episodes.
Learn more about ADHD-friendly financial coaching
Follow me on YouTube
Subscribe to the newsletter
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Before we jump in, here's what's changing.
That's going to make this showeven better.
We're now creating contentoptimized specifically for
YouTube, but don't worry, itworks perfectly on the podcast,
too.
Here's the thing, though.
If you want the absolute bestexperience, youtube is where
it's at.
You'll get to see my face, allthe visuals and the full
production value we're puttinginto these episodes.
So hop on over to YouTube andhit subscribe while you're there
(00:26):
, but if you love the podcastformat, you're not missing out
on the core content.
Our YouTube handle is ADHDMoney Talk, and the link to the
YouTube channel is in the shownotes.
All right, let's get intotoday's episode.
I was being hunted Klarna,afterpay, affirm.
I felt that these companieswere helping me with four things
, but they weren't just sellingpayment plans.
(00:47):
They were collecting ADHDbrands, and I have the research
to prove it.
So I fell into this trap hard,like embarrassingly hard.
Those convenient paymentoptions that are just everywhere
on Afterpay all of them.
They're not payment options,they're a neurological weapon.
I'm about to show you somethingthat's going to make you
furious, because if you haveADHD and you've ever clicked on
(01:08):
the split into four paymentsbutton, then let me tell you you
were not just buying something,you were being hunted.
I thought I was just terribleat money.
Honestly, that ADHD shamespiral that was me every day and
if you're watching this, youprobably know exactly what I'm'm
talking about.
You know that crushing feelinglike you're broken and
fundamentally flawed.
Well, that's not your fault.
(01:29):
I'm about to show you why.
But then I'd see something.
You know the 200 gadget.
So you know I'm just minding myown business.
Then all of a sudden, oh, thisgadget comes up, perfect and
need this, need it.
I'm like, all right, here we goand it.
Then Klarna pops up, pay infour, no interest, what a deal.
My brain latches onto that.
$50 per two weeks or whatever,like it's salvation.
(01:52):
50 bucks, I can handle 50 bucks.
And that was my life on repeat.
Back in the days when I wasspending like a wild man For
this video, I dug into theresearch and things that I maybe
suspected were found.
It's really sinister.
What's going on?
It's not just me, it's alsothem, for sure.
The research made me furiousand you want to know something
(02:13):
terrifying.
If an ADHD expert sat down withthe only intention to create a
system that would financiallydestroy the whole population of
people with ADHD, he wouldabsolutely build what Klarna,
afterpay, paypal, affirm havedone.
I've got four weapons they useto literally zero in target and
hunt us ADHDers to try and justdestroy us while they make money
(02:37):
.
So we've got four weapons.
The four weapons they'reliterally trying to reverse
engineer, destroy our financesusing our brains.
Here we go.
So Russell Barkley's researchshows ADHD is fundamentally an
executive function deficitdisorder.
If you are a 28 year old andyou have ADHD, your brain's
impulse control is functioningat a 17 year old's level, and
(03:00):
these companies know this andthey are exploiting it.
We're like little children whenit comes to behavioral
inhibition, and these companiesknow this and they are
exploiting it.
We're like little children whenit comes to behavioral
inhibition, and that means we'reripe for the picking.
They know it.
They offer instant approval.
They deliberately bypass theprefrontal cortex functions that
are already broken in ourbrains.
They're exploiting it.
We're like little children whenit comes to behavioral
inhibition.
(03:21):
They offer instant approval andthey are deliberately bypassing
our executive functionprefrontal cortexes already
minimized ability to make a gooddecision.
We're like ooh, fifty dollars,not two hundred.
Forget about the rest.
So yeah, that's the firstweapon, just straight up
hijacking a known executivefunction issue.
They know we can't resist.
Weapon number two exploiting ourdopamine pathways.
(03:45):
Pet studies show that adhdbrains have significantly lower
dopamine availability.
We live in a chronic hypodopamodernic state, and what
that basically means is we areconstantly just searching for
the next best thing, the nextimmediate gratification, and so,
in other words, we're literallywalking around with brains that
are starving for reward all thetime.
(04:06):
It can be the littlest reward,it can be the most maladaptive
reward, it's just a reward.
These companies, they'redangling out there exactly what
our brains crave most Buy now,pay later.
Services function essentiallyas sophisticated dopamine
delivery systems.
Immediate reward you get thething for way less than you
thought you were going to haveto pay and you defer the
(04:27):
consequence.
You pay later and probably evenmore, potentially with the
interest.
It's engineered addiction.
It's engineered exploitation ofour brains, everyone's brains.
Weapon number three is workingmemory overwhelm.
My working memory is good forlike the last two words I said.
I can probably recall the lasttwo words.
Go back in much more than thatand maybe the last sentence.
(04:49):
That's all I got.
When you're being shown fromKlarna and Affirm first of all,
you can probably choose fromlike three different versions of
this and you get the 12 months,no interest.
You get the pay for.
You get the 18 months with alower rate, and then the
clawback and then this and thenthat.
So your brain shuts down andthat's totally normal.
Your brain's not broken.
They are breaking your brain onpurpose.
They're counting on youshutting down and just buying
(05:10):
and not really understandingwhat you're doing, because they
aren't really telling you whatthey're doing.
Weapon number four is these buynow, pay later.
Companies make the futurepurposefully vague.
Adhd creates what RussellBarkley calls nearsightedness to
the future.
So we are unable to basicallythink through the consequences
of decisions we're making today,those future consequences.
(05:32):
We aren't really able to thinkthrough them because those
consequences have been so farout in the future that they're
not tangible and we can't reallyconnect to them.
And if we were to connect tothem, it would take a long time
and we'd have to really thinkabout it and get in touch with
all of our thighs and goals andput all of these pieces together
and be like yeah, that's notokay.
I don't want that for realsthis time.
But we're just more like I gottoday, I got tomorrow, maybe
(05:55):
tomorrow.
Tomorrow's not promised.
I'm going for it, I'm justgoing to do it.
Future me will figure it out.
That's what they're doing, andthese four weapons are really
just the brain, chemistry,manipulation.
Wait until you see how theyengineer the entire experience
to hide what's really happening.
They've disguised the entirething, every word, every color,
every button.
It's all psychological warfare.
(06:17):
You'll never see the word debtin their marketing.
You'll never see loan.
You'll never see credit Instead.
What do you see?
You see split.
See credit Instead.
What do you see?
You see split the payment,flexible payment.
This is good for your financialwellness because you can spread
it out and keep your budgetintact.
Come to me and this isn't, I'mnot joking Klarna literally has
(06:40):
called it financial wellness intheir internal documents, in
their internal presentations,where they're saying this is
what we want to emphasize.
Guys, we don't want people toknow the truth about our service
.
We want to call it financialwellness because it's so good
for people and us.
When we make a lot of money offpeople getting into more debt,
they don't understand.
They anchor you.
(07:01):
Well, we really anchorourselves, but by doing doing it
this way, they are anchoring usto the price we pay today.
We actually don't emotionallyconnect to the whole price.
We just think, oh, $200 splitin four, $50 I can afford that,
we, we just it just doesn'tregister.
Because then we're like, oh,it's just like I'm buying a $25
thing every two weeks, but thenyou're going to want to do a $50
(07:24):
every two weeks thing in twoweeks.
So now you're doing $100 everytwo weeks, but then you're going
to want to do a $50 every twoweeks thing in two weeks.
So now you're doing a hundreddollars every two weeks, then
you want to do another one.
And that's the math you are notdoing.
We are being overwhelmed withpayments that are just piling up
and just coming at us and ourworking memory can't handle it.
We can't handle the math in ourhead and you know, once we're
at like three or four of thesethings, it's out the window.
But wait, just get a load ofthis.
(07:45):
The average person using theseservices has 9.5 different of
these things per year acrossmultiple platforms.
I would venture to guess weADHDers skew that average up a
bit.
We're probably what like 12, 13, 14, 25, 30, whatever.
And so think about that for asecond.
You're not managing one paymentschedule.
You're juggling 10 differentpayment schedules across four
(08:07):
different companies, and twoweeks ago you did Afterpay.
Before that you did Affirm, andthen you did Klarna and you had
, you know, a spree with PayPalpaying for.
So you have five differentaccounts and you sure as crap
aren't going to go log in and gosee and track it and put it in
a spreadsheet.
I mean, how many of youactually use a spreadsheet?
Raise your hand.
If you use a spreadsheet andyou track all this because I
(08:27):
don't it just goes into theabyss and you hope, and you
think you do, in the exactmoment you press buy, that
you'll have enough money,because no God's gotten you so
far.
You're still alive and kickingand you haven't declared
bankruptcy yet.
And before you beat yourself upabout this, remember it's
designed this way.
It's not personal.
You're trying to tracksomething that is designed to
not be tracked.
(08:48):
This isn't a personal failing.
They don't make this easy.
They want you to be confused,and so this is what researchers
call phantom debt, because it'sdebt that feels like it doesn't
exist, because you can't reallysee it and you won't really
track it.
You know, you're on.
You're on your budgeting app,monarch or rock of money.
You're not really linking youraffirm.
(09:08):
I don't even know if you can dothat?
I should know.
I don't know what's in it forthese companies.
Why are they doing this?
Well, they generate 70 to 80percent of their revenue from
merchant fees that are two tothree times higher than credit
card processing fees, and thecost is basically getting passed
to all consumers through higherproduct prices.
Because this is basically howit works.
They get money, they get a cutof everything that we buy using
(09:33):
it, and the company that you'rebuying from is selling more
things because more consumersare like, yeah, I can afford
this, so I'm going to buy it, sowhy would they not raise their
prices?
Why would, if they're going tosell more anyways now and they
keep the price at the same priceand they're just going to lose
their profit margin?
They need that profit margin tostay per unit, to stay where it
(09:54):
is at for their next quarterlyconference call with their
investors.
And here's where it gets reallypredatory.
Late fees range from $8 to $25,or up to like 25% of the
purchase price.
Bank overdraft fees average $35.
So when multiple automatedwithdrawals hit simultaneously
and you can't keep track of allthese things, then the penalties
(10:15):
are just going to start addingup, and adding up, and adding up
.
And how long do we think afirm's been around?
I don't think it's been aroundthat long, but a company is like
a firm report adjustedoperating income of $381 million
on revenue of nearly $1 billion, and the profit margins that
these companies are making aremathematically impossible to
actually get if you don't haveconsumers overspending and then
(10:39):
extracting fees and fees andfees.
Maybe that's a good thing longterm for us, because long term
maybe these companies willrealize that they're sucking out
what they can, but it'll rundry.
But in the near term, we got tobe cautious.
And so what else are they doingto just weasel their way into
our lives and try and make usmess up financially?
Well, they're deliberatelytargeting people who are
(11:00):
vulnerable.
73 of users are millennials andgen z.
23 of people who use these havecredit scores below 600, so
they shouldn't even be gettingcredit.
It's not good for them.
That's why the credit scoresexist.
It sucks when you can't get thecredit you want, but a lot of
the times it's for your own goodand you don't realize that
until later.
And so that's 23% of peoplebelow 600 and only 2.8% of
(11:23):
people with scores above 800 areusing buy now, pay later.
And the fact that they'repartnering with, like food
delivery services.
Now, I mean, if Klarna isgetting in on DoorDash the
people actually using it to buytheir food what do we really
think is happening here?
They are struggling financiallyand klarna sees them as an
opportunity for fees.
The instagram algorithm knowsyou so well.
(11:45):
I used to be on instagram and Iwas such a sucker for the ads.
Every other ad would take meaway from whatever it was I was
really trying to do, which isjust to escape and watch some
funny stuff, and because I knewme so well, I would go and I
would explore and I'd say, okay,what is the pitch?
Let me read this very longpitch and see how many upsells
they can do before I say no oryes.
And by the time you know you'reactually done looking at this
(12:06):
thing and maybe you finallyworked up the oomph to be like
no, not today.
You're not going to do this tome today.
Well, you spent a lot of timedoing that and that's exhausting
.
You are not the customer of aKlarna and a firm.
It is the business that isusing it.
You are the vehicle to exploit.
You are who they want you toget into the pocket of.
(12:28):
Ultimately, you are theinstrument that they play to
make themselves very wealthy andtry and sell you on something
that feels good but isdestructive.
And so what are we going to dowith this?
Several years ago, when I wasstudying for the CFP and just
all about the financial planningindustry, I heard a podcast
from a financial planner whosaid and I loved it she was like
(12:50):
I don't give the perfect adviceto pretty much anyone.
I give the half good advicethat I think they will actually
follow through on, because halfgood advice that gets followed
through on is better thanperfect advice that never gets
started.
So, first step harm reductions.
So maybe right now, if youactually you know, spend 30
(13:10):
minutes actually figuring outhow many of these things you
have open, and maybe, let's sayyou have five or six, then make
it your goal just to reduce itto having one or two, and then
you can just say to yourself Iwill have no more than two ever
at any given time.
What actually prevented me fromdoing more of these things back
when I was a reckless spender,dealing with the worst imposter
syndrome ever, dealing with justshame galore.
(13:32):
What really prevented me frommaking it overly bad was that I
hated not knowing.
Part of my thing is that I needto understand and know things,
even if it's bad, like if I have30 grand of credit card debt.
I wanna know that I have 30grand of credit card debt and I
wanna see it.
So that prevented me actuallyfrom doing this, because it was
so hard to keep track of.
I'm only gonna have one at atime, or two at a time, and not
(13:54):
until because if you have one ortwo at a time and it is
genuinely paying for no interestor something you know, that can
actually be something that isresponsible if done with
intention and with execution.
It's when you're just kind ofrecklessly doing it that we have
the problem.
That's number one Just have oneor two and then you'll be able
to keep track of it.
Mentally, you'll know, and thenwhen they roll off, you know
and you have something else alittle bit bigger to buy, you
(14:15):
can say, okay, I have space forone.
So we're not trying to get ridof it totally, we're not going
to be unrealistic, but we'rejust going to reduce it and then
keep some boundary on it.
Number two find a substitutionfor your chronic under
stimulation that doesn't involvespending enormous amounts of
money or at least not being ableto predict the amount of money
that you're spending.
Maybe you go take singinglessons.
(14:35):
That's what I'm actually doingright now, because it one is
interesting.
I can as much time to sitaround throwing dollar bills at
all the little fancy gadgets youknow that are just constantly
being thrown in my face.
Third reality check time buy now, pay later is dangerous and we
must avoid it as best we can.
(14:57):
It is debt.
There's no ifs, ands or butsabout it.
You're using it because on atto some extent, you are wrapped
up in consumerism and you aregiving in.
The reality is you are givingin all the time to the for the
instant gratification and forthe reward, and it is going to
do damage to yourself if youdon't get it under control.
So the reality check is numberthree, and looking internally to
(15:20):
see what is really going on andwhat can I substitute this with
?
How can I channel this energysomewhere else that isn't going
to be causing self-harm?
And if there's some level ofshame or some level of something
that creates the cycle, thatsort of adds fuel to the fire,
then it's time to get in touchwith that and become aware,
because the awareness of theissue, that's the deep down
(15:42):
issue, is what's going to unlocka mindset that believes that it
can get over the problem,because now it understands the
problem.
So remember when I talked aboutthose 10 different payment
schedules you're trying tojuggle the spreadsheet.
You don't have the money,disappearing into the abyss.
Here's what I realized afterfalling into this trap so hard
Protecting yourself from buy now, pay later companies is just
(16:04):
half the battle, because even ifyou delete every app tomorrow,
you're still going to be leftwith the same ADHD brain that
got you there in the first place.
The real problem at the end ofthe day, for us who are
struggling with our money can'tseem to get a grip on it, is
that most financial adviceassumes that you lack knowledge
and that if you just knew how tobudget better, you would, and
(16:24):
if you knew what to do you would.
But that's exactly the oppositeof the truth for us.
We do know better, and if wedon't know better, we still can
know better.
You know, if you both can'tcontrol the behavior and you
don't know better, then the lowhanging fruit is to know better,
because we are not bad atlearning.
Usually, we can figure thingsout and we can understand
concepts and we can get it, andwe can just, you know, we just
(16:47):
bury our head in the sand whenit's time to actually do
something, and so this is why Icreated the unbudget.
This is a free ADHD moneyautomation financial system,
building it from soup to nuts.
It takes you through everysingle step of getting a system
where you have money going whereyou need it to go, so that the
money that you have to spend isafter everything else has been
(17:07):
set aside for and and I'mtalking about everything, the
things that you you aren't eventhinking about, like the, the
irregular expenses that come upand just you're like, oh, I was
doing so good and then boom,this came up.
I forgot about that.
But we take into accounteverything so that the money
that you actually have left overto spend is the money you
really can spend with thissystem.
This system doesn't move themoney for you, but it takes you
(17:27):
through setting it up andgetting everything you need
together so that you can goimplement it in one of multiple
options that I provide in thisfree tool.
I spent a lot of time on it.
I'm super excited about it.
So if you want to check thisthing out, it's in the
description.
It's totally free.
There's not a single stringattached because you will give
me your email, but that's it.
Otherwise, totally free, andI'll see you later.
Before we jump in, here's what's changing.
That's going to make this showeven better.
We're now creating contentoptimized specifically for
YouTube, but don't worry, itworks perfectly on the podcast,
too.
Here's the thing, though.
If you want the absolute bestexperience, youtube is where
it's at.
You'll get to see my face, allthe visuals and the full
production value we're puttinginto these episodes.
So hop on over to YouTube andhit subscribe while you're there
(00:26):
, but if you love the podcastformat, you're not missing out
on the core content.
Our YouTube handle is ADHDMoney Talk, and the link to the
YouTube channel is in the shownotes.
All right, let's get intotoday's episode.
I was being hunted Klarna,afterpay, affirm.
I felt that these companieswere helping me with four things
, but they weren't just sellingpayment plans.
(00:47):
They were collecting ADHDbrands, and I have the research
to prove it.
So I fell into this trap hard,like embarrassingly hard.
Those convenient paymentoptions that are just everywhere
on Afterpay all of them.
They're not payment options,they're a neurological weapon.
I'm about to show you somethingthat's going to make you
furious, because if you haveADHD and you've ever clicked on
(01:08):
the split into four paymentsbutton, then let me tell you you
were not just buying something,you were being hunted.
I thought I was just terribleat money.
Honestly, that ADHD shamespiral that was me every day and
if you're watching this, youprobably know exactly what I'm'm
talking about.
You know that crushing feelinglike you're broken and
fundamentally flawed.
Well, that's not your fault.
(01:29):
I'm about to show you why.
But then I'd see something.
You know the 200 gadget.
So you know I'm just minding myown business.
Then all of a sudden, oh, thisgadget comes up, perfect and
need this, need it.
I'm like, all right, here we goand it.
Then Klarna pops up, pay infour, no interest, what a deal.
My brain latches onto that.
$50 per two weeks or whatever,like it's salvation.
(01:52):
50 bucks, I can handle 50 bucks.
And that was my life on repeat.
Back in the days when I wasspending like a wild man For
this video, I dug into theresearch and things that I maybe
suspected were found.
It's really sinister.
What's going on?
It's not just me, it's alsothem, for sure.
The research made me furiousand you want to know something
(02:13):
terrifying.
If an ADHD expert sat down withthe only intention to create a
system that would financiallydestroy the whole population of
people with ADHD, he wouldabsolutely build what Klarna,
afterpay, paypal, affirm havedone.
I've got four weapons they useto literally zero in target and
hunt us ADHDers to try and justdestroy us while they make money
(02:37):
.
So we've got four weapons.
The four weapons they'reliterally trying to reverse
engineer, destroy our financesusing our brains.
Here we go.
So Russell Barkley's researchshows ADHD is fundamentally an
executive function deficitdisorder.
If you are a 28 year old andyou have ADHD, your brain's
impulse control is functioningat a 17 year old's level, and
(03:00):
these companies know this andthey are exploiting it.
We're like little children whenit comes to behavioral
inhibition, and these companiesknow this and they are
exploiting it.
We're like little children whenit comes to behavioral
inhibition, and that means we'reripe for the picking.
They know it.
They offer instant approval.
They deliberately bypass theprefrontal cortex functions that
are already broken in ourbrains.
They're exploiting it.
We're like little children whenit comes to behavioral
inhibition.
(03:21):
They offer instant approval andthey are deliberately bypassing
our executive functionprefrontal cortexes already
minimized ability to make a gooddecision.
We're like ooh, fifty dollars,not two hundred.
Forget about the rest.
So yeah, that's the firstweapon, just straight up
hijacking a known executivefunction issue.
They know we can't resist.
Weapon number two exploiting ourdopamine pathways.
(03:45):
Pet studies show that adhdbrains have significantly lower
dopamine availability.
We live in a chronic hypodopamodernic state, and what
that basically means is we areconstantly just searching for
the next best thing, the nextimmediate gratification, and so,
in other words, we're literallywalking around with brains that
are starving for reward all thetime.
(04:06):
It can be the littlest reward,it can be the most maladaptive
reward, it's just a reward.
These companies, they'redangling out there exactly what
our brains crave most Buy now,pay later.
Services function essentiallyas sophisticated dopamine
delivery systems.
Immediate reward you get thething for way less than you
thought you were going to haveto pay and you defer the
(04:27):
consequence.
You pay later and probably evenmore, potentially with the
interest.
It's engineered addiction.
It's engineered exploitation ofour brains, everyone's brains.
Weapon number three is workingmemory overwhelm.
My working memory is good forlike the last two words I said.
I can probably recall the lasttwo words.
Go back in much more than thatand maybe the last sentence.
(04:49):
That's all I got.
When you're being shown fromKlarna and Affirm first of all,
you can probably choose fromlike three different versions of
this and you get the 12 months,no interest.
You get the pay for.
You get the 18 months with alower rate, and then the
clawback and then this and thenthat.
So your brain shuts down andthat's totally normal.
Your brain's not broken.
They are breaking your brain onpurpose.
They're counting on youshutting down and just buying
(05:10):
and not really understandingwhat you're doing, because they
aren't really telling you whatthey're doing.
Weapon number four is these buynow, pay later.
Companies make the futurepurposefully vague.
Adhd creates what RussellBarkley calls nearsightedness to
the future.
So we are unable to basicallythink through the consequences
of decisions we're making today,those future consequences.
(05:32):
We aren't really able to thinkthrough them because those
consequences have been so farout in the future that they're
not tangible and we can't reallyconnect to them.
And if we were to connect tothem, it would take a long time
and we'd have to really thinkabout it and get in touch with
all of our thighs and goals andput all of these pieces together
and be like yeah, that's notokay.
I don't want that for realsthis time.
But we're just more like I gottoday, I got tomorrow, maybe
(05:55):
tomorrow.
Tomorrow's not promised.
I'm going for it, I'm justgoing to do it.
Future me will figure it out.
That's what they're doing, andthese four weapons are really
just the brain, chemistry,manipulation.
Wait until you see how theyengineer the entire experience
to hide what's really happening.
They've disguised the entirething, every word, every color,
every button.
It's all psychological warfare.
(06:17):
You'll never see the word debtin their marketing.
You'll never see loan.
You'll never see credit Instead.
What do you see?
You see split.
See credit Instead.
What do you see?
You see split the payment,flexible payment.
This is good for your financialwellness because you can spread
it out and keep your budgetintact.
Come to me and this isn't, I'mnot joking Klarna literally has
(06:40):
called it financial wellness intheir internal documents, in
their internal presentations,where they're saying this is
what we want to emphasize.
Guys, we don't want people toknow the truth about our service
.
We want to call it financialwellness because it's so good
for people and us.
When we make a lot of money offpeople getting into more debt,
they don't understand.
They anchor you.
(07:01):
Well, we really anchorourselves, but by doing doing it
this way, they are anchoring usto the price we pay today.
We actually don't emotionallyconnect to the whole price.
We just think, oh, $200 splitin four, $50 I can afford that,
we, we just it just doesn'tregister.
Because then we're like, oh,it's just like I'm buying a $25
thing every two weeks, but thenyou're going to want to do a $50
(07:24):
every two weeks thing in twoweeks.
So now you're doing $100 everytwo weeks, but then you're going
to want to do a $50 every twoweeks thing in two weeks.
So now you're doing a hundreddollars every two weeks, then
you want to do another one.
And that's the math you are notdoing.
We are being overwhelmed withpayments that are just piling up
and just coming at us and ourworking memory can't handle it.
We can't handle the math in ourhead and you know, once we're
at like three or four of thesethings, it's out the window.
But wait, just get a load ofthis.
(07:45):
The average person using theseservices has 9.5 different of
these things per year acrossmultiple platforms.
I would venture to guess weADHDers skew that average up a
bit.
We're probably what like 12, 13, 14, 25, 30, whatever.
And so think about that for asecond.
You're not managing one paymentschedule.
You're juggling 10 differentpayment schedules across four
(08:07):
different companies, and twoweeks ago you did Afterpay.
Before that you did Affirm, andthen you did Klarna and you had
, you know, a spree with PayPalpaying for.
So you have five differentaccounts and you sure as crap
aren't going to go log in and gosee and track it and put it in
a spreadsheet.
I mean, how many of youactually use a spreadsheet?
Raise your hand.
If you use a spreadsheet andyou track all this because I
(08:27):
don't it just goes into theabyss and you hope, and you
think you do, in the exactmoment you press buy, that
you'll have enough money,because no God's gotten you so
far.
You're still alive and kickingand you haven't declared
bankruptcy yet.
And before you beat yourself upabout this, remember it's
designed this way.
It's not personal.
You're trying to tracksomething that is designed to
not be tracked.
(08:48):
This isn't a personal failing.
They don't make this easy.
They want you to be confused,and so this is what researchers
call phantom debt, because it'sdebt that feels like it doesn't
exist, because you can't reallysee it and you won't really
track it.
You know, you're on.
You're on your budgeting app,monarch or rock of money.
You're not really linking youraffirm.
(09:08):
I don't even know if you can dothat?
I should know.
I don't know what's in it forthese companies.
Why are they doing this?
Well, they generate 70 to 80percent of their revenue from
merchant fees that are two tothree times higher than credit
card processing fees, and thecost is basically getting passed
to all consumers through higherproduct prices.
Because this is basically howit works.
They get money, they get a cutof everything that we buy using
(09:33):
it, and the company that you'rebuying from is selling more
things because more consumersare like, yeah, I can afford
this, so I'm going to buy it, sowhy would they not raise their
prices?
Why would, if they're going tosell more anyways now and they
keep the price at the same priceand they're just going to lose
their profit margin?
They need that profit margin tostay per unit, to stay where it
(09:54):
is at for their next quarterlyconference call with their
investors.
And here's where it gets reallypredatory.
Late fees range from $8 to $25,or up to like 25% of the
purchase price.
Bank overdraft fees average $35.
So when multiple automatedwithdrawals hit simultaneously
and you can't keep track of allthese things, then the penalties
(10:15):
are just going to start addingup, and adding up, and adding up
.
And how long do we think afirm's been around?
I don't think it's been aroundthat long, but a company is like
a firm report adjustedoperating income of $381 million
on revenue of nearly $1 billion, and the profit margins that
these companies are making aremathematically impossible to
actually get if you don't haveconsumers overspending and then
(10:39):
extracting fees and fees andfees.
Maybe that's a good thing longterm for us, because long term
maybe these companies willrealize that they're sucking out
what they can, but it'll rundry.
But in the near term, we got tobe cautious.
And so what else are they doingto just weasel their way into
our lives and try and make usmess up financially?
Well, they're deliberatelytargeting people who are
(11:00):
vulnerable.
73 of users are millennials andgen z.
23 of people who use these havecredit scores below 600, so
they shouldn't even be gettingcredit.
It's not good for them.
That's why the credit scoresexist.
It sucks when you can't get thecredit you want, but a lot of
the times it's for your own goodand you don't realize that
until later.
And so that's 23% of peoplebelow 600 and only 2.8% of
(11:23):
people with scores above 800 areusing buy now, pay later.
And the fact that they'repartnering with, like food
delivery services.
Now, I mean, if Klarna isgetting in on DoorDash the
people actually using it to buytheir food what do we really
think is happening here?
They are struggling financiallyand klarna sees them as an
opportunity for fees.
The instagram algorithm knowsyou so well.
(11:45):
I used to be on instagram and Iwas such a sucker for the ads.
Every other ad would take meaway from whatever it was I was
really trying to do, which isjust to escape and watch some
funny stuff, and because I knewme so well, I would go and I
would explore and I'd say, okay,what is the pitch?
Let me read this very longpitch and see how many upsells
they can do before I say no oryes.
And by the time you know you'reactually done looking at this
(12:06):
thing and maybe you finallyworked up the oomph to be like
no, not today.
You're not going to do this tome today.
Well, you spent a lot of timedoing that and that's exhausting
.
You are not the customer of aKlarna and a firm.
It is the business that isusing it.
You are the vehicle to exploit.
You are who they want you toget into the pocket of.
(12:28):
Ultimately, you are theinstrument that they play to
make themselves very wealthy andtry and sell you on something
that feels good but isdestructive.
And so what are we going to dowith this?
Several years ago, when I wasstudying for the CFP and just
all about the financial planningindustry, I heard a podcast
from a financial planner whosaid and I loved it she was like
(12:50):
I don't give the perfect adviceto pretty much anyone.
I give the half good advicethat I think they will actually
follow through on, because halfgood advice that gets followed
through on is better thanperfect advice that never gets
started.
So, first step harm reductions.
So maybe right now, if youactually you know, spend 30
(13:10):
minutes actually figuring outhow many of these things you
have open, and maybe, let's sayyou have five or six, then make
it your goal just to reduce itto having one or two, and then
you can just say to yourself Iwill have no more than two ever
at any given time.
What actually prevented me fromdoing more of these things back
when I was a reckless spender,dealing with the worst imposter
syndrome ever, dealing with justshame galore.
(13:32):
What really prevented me frommaking it overly bad was that I
hated not knowing.
Part of my thing is that I needto understand and know things,
even if it's bad, like if I have30 grand of credit card debt.
I wanna know that I have 30grand of credit card debt and I
wanna see it.
So that prevented me actuallyfrom doing this, because it was
so hard to keep track of.
I'm only gonna have one at atime, or two at a time, and not
(13:54):
until because if you have one ortwo at a time and it is
genuinely paying for no interestor something you know, that can
actually be something that isresponsible if done with
intention and with execution.
It's when you're just kind ofrecklessly doing it that we have
the problem.
That's number one Just have oneor two and then you'll be able
to keep track of it.
Mentally, you'll know, and thenwhen they roll off, you know
and you have something else alittle bit bigger to buy, you
(14:15):
can say, okay, I have space forone.
So we're not trying to get ridof it totally, we're not going
to be unrealistic, but we'rejust going to reduce it and then
keep some boundary on it.
Number two find a substitutionfor your chronic under
stimulation that doesn't involvespending enormous amounts of
money or at least not being ableto predict the amount of money
that you're spending.
Maybe you go take singinglessons.
(14:35):
That's what I'm actually doingright now, because it one is
interesting.
I can as much time to sitaround throwing dollar bills at
all the little fancy gadgets youknow that are just constantly
being thrown in my face.
Third reality check time buy now, pay later is dangerous and we
must avoid it as best we can.
(14:57):
It is debt.
There's no ifs, ands or butsabout it.
You're using it because on atto some extent, you are wrapped
up in consumerism and you aregiving in.
The reality is you are givingin all the time to the for the
instant gratification and forthe reward, and it is going to
do damage to yourself if youdon't get it under control.
So the reality check is numberthree, and looking internally to
(15:20):
see what is really going on andwhat can I substitute this with
?
How can I channel this energysomewhere else that isn't going
to be causing self-harm?
And if there's some level ofshame or some level of something
that creates the cycle, thatsort of adds fuel to the fire,
then it's time to get in touchwith that and become aware,
because the awareness of theissue, that's the deep down
(15:42):
issue, is what's going to unlocka mindset that believes that it
can get over the problem,because now it understands the
problem.
So remember when I talked aboutthose 10 different payment
schedules you're trying tojuggle the spreadsheet.
You don't have the money,disappearing into the abyss.
Here's what I realized afterfalling into this trap so hard
Protecting yourself from buy now, pay later companies is just
(16:04):
half the battle, because even ifyou delete every app tomorrow,
you're still going to be leftwith the same ADHD brain that
got you there in the first place.
The real problem at the end ofthe day, for us who are
struggling with our money can'tseem to get a grip on it, is
that most financial adviceassumes that you lack knowledge
and that if you just knew how tobudget better, you would, and
(16:24):
if you knew what to do you would.
But that's exactly the oppositeof the truth for us.
We do know better, and if wedon't know better, we still can
know better.
You know, if you both can'tcontrol the behavior and you
don't know better, then the lowhanging fruit is to know better,
because we are not bad atlearning.
Usually, we can figure thingsout and we can understand
concepts and we can get it, andwe can just, you know, we just
(16:47):
bury our head in the sand whenit's time to actually do
something, and so this is why Icreated the unbudget.
This is a free ADHD moneyautomation financial system,
building it from soup to nuts.
It takes you through everysingle step of getting a system
where you have money going whereyou need it to go, so that the
money that you have to spend isafter everything else has been
(17:07):
set aside for and and I'mtalking about everything, the
things that you you aren't eventhinking about, like the, the
irregular expenses that come upand just you're like, oh, I was
doing so good and then boom,this came up.
I forgot about that.
But we take into accounteverything so that the money
that you actually have left overto spend is the money you
really can spend with thissystem.
This system doesn't move themoney for you, but it takes you
(17:27):
through setting it up andgetting everything you need
together so that you can goimplement it in one of multiple
options that I provide in thisfree tool.
I spent a lot of time on it.
I'm super excited about it.
So if you want to check thisthing out, it's in the
description.
It's totally free.
There's not a single stringattached because you will give
me your email, but that's it.
Otherwise, totally free, andI'll see you later.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.