July 26, 2023 • 25 mins
Have you ever imagined what it would be like to have a personal assistant that transcribes your thoughts, keeping track of the tiniest tasks that your memory can't hold onto? As someone living with ADHD, this isn't just a passing thought for me, but a constant reality. Join me as we navigate the intricate maze of ADHD, IQ, and working memory, and how this intertwining impacts my everyday life, from conversations and soccer practice to financial management.
The revelation of my IQ test results, a solid 109, puts my verbal comprehension and perceptual reasoning above average. But here's the catch – my working memory is in the 34th percentile. Poor working memory isn't just about forgetting where I put my keys, it's a daily battle that affects my conversations, my sports practice, and most critically, my financial habits. It's about struggling to remember crucial details, even my own phone number. But hey, we're not here to dwell on the struggle. Let's dive into how we can turn these challenges into our strength!
The moment you connect the dots between ADHD, poor working memory, and financial habits is the moment you start gaining control of your finances. Trust me, I've been there. We all know how one impulsive decision can lead to a cascade of unwarranted spending. Been there, done that. But with the help of financial tracking and building cognitive flexibility, I've been able to regain control. It's a journey, but it's doable. Let's embark on this together, learn from my strategies and experiences, and find out how to take control of our finances amidst our ADHD challenges.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back to ADHD Money Talk, the show that helps
dynamic but distracted ADHDbrains take back control over
their money in order to stressless, live a more rich life and
open up new and amazingpossibilities.
And either humble and quiteADHD-host, dave DeWitt.
My ADHD is awful.
(00:22):
Sometimes it just drives me upthe wall because the level of
working memory that I have isterrible.
Sometimes I'm doing thispodcast and I'm like stuttering,
or it's choppy and I'm pausingand I have to keep talking
because I can't hold a dang thawin my mind for long enough for
(00:43):
me to be able to speak it outsmoothly, because things come in
my brain and it drops in out indrop, drop, drop, drop.
So that's how I can go fromstarting a task on my computer
and maybe in five minutes I'vealready started four other tasks
and I cannot just continuedoing what I should be doing.
And I always have had thisthought of this dream of when I
(01:07):
start a task on my computer, thewords for what I'm doing and
need to keep doing would juststay on the computer and be
transcribed from my braindirectly onto a big script like
big text on the computer, so Ican just continue doing that
thing and not forget about it,because within five seconds I
sometimes forget and then I'm onto a new thing.
So even if I break up my day,you know I go on.
(01:29):
I'm using Sonsama now to helpme daily plan and it does help
me daily plan, but I can onlydaily plan so many small tasks,
but then, when little things,there's always that little,
really small task that youforgot about, that's in between
your other small tasks, that youthought were all of them, and
then you start doing the tasksthat you planned, but then you
(01:50):
have to do the other littletasks, but then you're flipping
to anything of another one andthen every time that I'm
starting a new task that pops mymind it's usually like an email
I forgot to answer or it's likesomething like that along those
lines.
I can't just write down.
I mean I could, maybe I should,but I couldn't put it in the
app every time like, okay, thisis what you're doing now,
(02:12):
because sometimes the tasksliterally will just take two
minutes and to like take time toopen up the app and like write
tasks down, I could have alreadydone it.
So it's just this big mess.
You know, here I am talkingabout it, but this is just my
struggle.
My working memory is so bad.
If you look at my IQ score, I'ma brilliant 109, I'm like
average, very averageintelligence, almost above
(02:34):
average, but I'm average.
So I have to accept that Ithink 110, in some way 110 would
mean that I was like more, likesuperior or like above average,
but I'm 109, so I'm average.
And I was talking to my ADHDcoach who I hope is listening,
and she's like a 139 and I'mlike dang, that's so smart and I
(02:57):
thought I was like sort ofsmart.
But when I found out that I wasa 109 because of this test, I
took this.
I took IQ test twice actuallyonce when I was very small, like
six years old, and one when Iwas in high school, and I scored
109 both times exactly.
So I feel pretty confident thatI'm a 109.
But if you look at it and we'regoing to get into what this
(03:20):
podcast is about we are going totalk about money today.
The IQ test I got.
This was part of my like youknow, if you listen to one of
the early episodes, I talkedabout this but I had like very
hardcore testing done.
I took all these tests.
I took Bender, gestalt,Stanford, bonaise Intelligence,
detroit Test of Learningaptitude.
(03:41):
Detroit Test of Learningaptitude 4, brown EDD scales.
Burns and Rowe in formal wordrecognition inventory.
Burns and Rowe, yada, yada,nelson, denny reading, woodcock,
jaffin tests of achievement God, that was like a test subject.
I felt like here's my IQ scoresfor each section of the IQ test
(04:02):
verbal comprehension 114, 82ndpercentile okay.
So I guess I've always excelledwith words more so than numbers
.
Huh, I'm an official planner.
What the heck am I doing inthis job?
Just kidding, I'm not.
I'm not picking that way, I'mnot.
I don't have imposter syndrome,I swear.
Perceptual reasoning 108, 70thpercentile okay, I'll take it.
(04:22):
Ranging speed 70 or 109, okay.
73rd percentile okay, I'll takeit.
Okay.
Feeling pretty good, full scaleIQ 109, that's the full one,
and I skipped one because I'mjust so ashamed of it.
Working memory 94 and the 34thpercentile.
(04:43):
So this has always made methink, like, to some extent I'm
like Is it ADHD or is that partof my brain just broken?
Like, do I get hit in the headreally hard on my working memory
section of my brain?
I don't entertain thosethoughts really, because it
could be, it could not be.
I don't know.
I don't really care.
I've accepted everything aboutit, but like it's the worst part
(05:05):
of my ADHD, the first year ofworking memory is how it's most
affected.
It's how it's gotten, andworking memory is one of those
things where, like it cantotally make you look dumb, like
it can be feel dumb, look dumb.
People will think you're dumb.
That's what I experienced withmy soccer story and my sports
(05:26):
and sus.
Because, because what this is?
You forget the name, you getlost in conversation, you can't
remember what they had just said, you have nothing to say back
to the person because you're toobusy trying to scramble to
remember what they said.
And then you feel awkward andthen you just nod your head and
stare blankly or stare throughthem and say I can't wait for
this guy to start talking.
What's my way out of here?
(05:46):
I feel like a dummy and thatsucks, it's not, doesn't feel
good, it's the worst.
Or, in my case, soccer practiceCoach is saying okay, you go,
you go from this spot to thisspot to this spot and back and
forth and then loop, you loopback and forth.
Okay, go do that.
And everyone's like yeah, wegot that, it's easy.
And I'm up.
I'm like, oh, okay, I won inthe wrong direction five times
in a row and then I'm beingyelled at and and all that.
(06:08):
It sucks, it hurts and it sucks.
So, but working memory sucksand ADHD, and that hurts money
too.
Like, how are you supposed toreally keep track of when I'm
spending, what's coming, what'scoming out?
I can't even remember my ownphone number sometimes.
It's crazy.
So, like, working memory sucksand that is an executive
(06:29):
function, and ADHD is a disorderof being executive function.
This is a disorder of yourprefrontal cortex that is not
getting enough dopamine.
I'm not a doctor, I'm not ascientist, I'm not a person that
knows things officially aboutthese things, so just don't take
my word for it.
So, just what I, myunderstanding, my understanding
is that we have, we every humansneed, like dopamine keeps us
(06:54):
feeling good and motivated,right, it's like the stain that
just like keeps us likeappropriately motivated to do
things, to get appropriaterewards at the appropriate time
and to understand the long termconsequences of things and so
that you act appropriately inalignment with those standard
(07:14):
long term.
You know, this is this is whatit gives you when it's
regulating through your brainproperly and it's not gone half
the time and then, but let'sstay in there when you do
something crazy.
So that's what ADHD is to me.
So I feel like I have it onthat front.
And then I also feel like Ihave it on the front of like
extra bad working memory,because it's just brutal
(07:35):
sometimes.
So you know, working memory islike the sticky note in your
brain that you can see andremember.
It's like you just took a notedown, you just heard someone's
name and it's stuck on yourbrain.
You can't forget it.
It's there.
You're holding that information.
You can only hold so much ofyour working memory, but it's
there.
(07:55):
And so when it comes tofinancial stuff, you're like,
okay, this bill's due on thisday, whatever it's on the sticky
note.
But that sticky note, the Rsticky note, is like looking at
the colorblind test.
When you're colorblind, youcan't remember, you can't see it
, it's blurry.
You're like, where is thenumber?
I don't see it, I can'tremember.
And then, and so if you're inthe middle needing to make a
(08:18):
decision about finances orwhatever and you just can't
remember what the rightinformation is, you're either
going to just shut down and donothing or you're just going to
make the decision go to a bad.
You'll figure out theconsequences later.
I mean, it's not easy to keeptrack of anything Like.
(08:39):
That's why I really I've alwaysrecommend tracking your
expenses.
You have to make that routineor the habit so automatic, like
it's got to be like okay, Ispent money on a thing.
I need to go right down in myspending journal what I wrote.
You need to make it so thatyou're doing that in the same
way that when you sit down onthe toilet you take out your
(09:01):
phone.
You know that's a muscle memory, that just happens.
You need to develop habitsthrough whatever means you
possibly can to get that done,and I talked to a lot of people
who want to control their.
When they pay bills.
They want to do it manually,they want to feel in control.
A lot of times this comesbecause you are so paycheck to
(09:22):
paycheck that you just want tomake sure you know by doing it
manually, you can makeabsolutely sure that you have
money in the account and won'tbe getting overdraft fees.
So if that's you, then I.
Well, if that's you.
Well, honestly, most peoplethat are doing that are pretty
actually good at it becausethey're so used to it, because
it's a rookie, it's a habit.
So you need to get routine andhabit going in other areas, like
(09:44):
tracking your expenses, becauseit's not the bills that are the
problem, it's the handing overof the card.
It's that it's usually theproblem and just a complete lack
of awareness of what's actuallygoing out besides the bills.
You know you've paid the energybill enough times, you've paid
the rent enough times to be ableto remember that, because
eventually, like we can rememberthings, our long-term memory
(10:04):
isn't so bad, but it's all thethings that are temporary.
So we're probably like 12minutes into this podcast, 13
minutes, and this podcast isabout executive functions and
money.
I hope you got that point.
I know I just started talkingabout me and my problems and my
working memory, but we're goingto keep talking for the next six
(10:25):
minutes or so about the otherexecutive functions that it
affects.
So let's continue on Impulsecontrol.
Impulse control, you know Ialways feel like they're all
related, like my brain doesn'treally separate out very well,
like, yes, I understand thatimpulse control is like you have
an impulse to do something andyou can't control it, but it's
(10:47):
all interrelated because howmuch of you be unable to stop
the impulses due to the factthat you can't remember the
reason why you shouldn't do thething in the first place.
So it's like working memory,impulse or interrelated,
regardless.
We all know what it's like.
I mean, this year I had fivemonths good, like I was as
tracking and as, unfortunately,dictatorial as I ever have been
(11:10):
about expending, expenses andstuff.
Part of it's because I'm alittle bit overly controlling,
just being honest, and I work onthat.
But there's always a centraltheme and it's like if I'm not
in control or I'm notcontrolling, then I feel like
it's lost and I'm just lost.
So that's why I feel likecontrol for me is very important
.
It keeps me feeling sane.
(11:32):
But this month of July just gotcompletely out of hand.
I utterly obliterated my budgetfor July.
Now I'll be honest with you,it's not as bad because I'm
blessed and I have income.
That's pretty good these days.
It's keeping me going.
It was just so far off from mygoal.
You know we did some things tothe house and that we had been
(11:54):
planning on.
Well, we were planning.
So this is how it goes.
We've been talking for likefour years about doing things to
the house, right, but we didn'treally say when we would do it,
and so I've been setting asidesome money for it.
But then, because we have a kidcoming in October, for whatever
reason, it was just like, okay,this is the month, and we just
(12:15):
looked at each other, mirror,like Chachin, let's go buy the
stuff.
And so it wasn't just thefridge and the dishwasher, but
it was also, you know, their newrecess lights, and it was this,
and that is like I just pulledforward all the projects and
just said July is the month andpart of what I do when I do this
.
It was impulse.
It, without a question, isimpulse.
It, I mean, you know, and thisis how spending snowballs, you,
(12:36):
you do the one thing, you letloose and you spend money after
you have it in a while and youget that rush of return of, like
the feet, the dopamine.
It comes strong, and then youhaven't had that kind of
dopamine in a while, and so youjust want more, you just want
more, and so it was so mucheasier for me then, well, after
(12:58):
I made the first decision and Ibought the appliances so we
really needed a fridge, like youshould have seen the block of
ice that came out of thatfreedom, that was broken.
It was insane.
But you do the one thing andThen, because you did the one
thing, it's so much easier to dothe next and the next and the
next, and the next, and the nextand the next.
It's like breaking the dam.
(13:19):
And so then the impulse of thisjust comes off and it probably
it's because you were so tiredfrom resisting all of your the
impulse.
But and you know, this podcastis actually going to just be
whatever, it's just gonna,because I can't keep this going
forever.
So we're just gonna talk alittle bit more about this,
because now I want to thoughtthat I think is useful.
So this actually is a goodreal-time example of the
improvement that I have made inlife find my financial ability
(13:42):
To recover.
So if this was me before,having done the mental work
before, having learned aboutPersonal finance to the extent
that I have over the past twoyears, before, I Honestly just
was older, because when I was 27, I was just first of all in my
20s and so I wasn't fully mature, and I'm still not fully mature
.
I'm second of all, I probablyhave the maturity of a 20 year
(14:04):
old because ADHD or just beingtoo spoiled or you know, I mean
like just whatever.
So what I'm trying to say is Nowthat I've been tracky on
Monarch first, you know prettymuch this whole year I'm very
keep very good close, look on,and even throughout this very
high spending period on thehouse, I still have looked at it
(14:26):
.
I faced it.
You know not as much and Iavoided it a bit, but I'm
looking at it and I'm acceptingit.
And I'm looking at August.
I am on August and I'm studyingthe budget for August and I
have this flood of confidenceand it's so much easier for me
to pivot back to me how I needto be, whereas before this I
would never even spot until itwas too late to stop.
(14:50):
So that is the improvement thatI've made, an improvement that
you can make just simply bykeeping at it.
It's just and that's really allit is.
Take the things of principles Ilaid out in the beginning of
this podcast tracking on paper,using Monarch, just looking at
it every day for five minutes,you'll make progress.
Impulse control is a A stronggoal, let's be real.
(15:16):
Another one is cognitiveflexibility.
Cognitive flexibility is ourbrain's ability to shift between
different thoughts or actionsin response to changing
situations.
It's basically like our brain'sability to just transition from
task to task and likeefficiently do that and adapt to
(15:39):
new environments andcircumstances or change
strategies when current ones areineffective, and even just
recognizing when it'sineffective.
It's really a good skill tohave.
It's a great skill to have forproblem-solving and planning and
social interactions.
Yeah, so cognitive flexibilitythat's like when my wife is like
(15:59):
, hey, can you come do thisthing?
And my brain was like, well, Iwas gonna do this thing and
that's what I really wanted todo.
So it's like literally pullingmy teeth sometimes too.
For me to get up and do theother thing and switch my brain
like I hit my cognitiveflexibility is pretty bad.
I'm just gonna tell you thatright now and in finances,
you're already overwhelmedenough trying to juggle tasks at
(16:20):
work, trying to juggle yourhome life with the kids and with
your marriage and witheverything or you know,
relationship, whatever.
Then, when financial stuffcomes up, you already want to
avoid it and now you have tomake change your plans
financially and well, the restis history for a lot of us.
We just don't and we justcontinue on until we're forced.
See, with finances it's so easyto do bury your head in the
(16:42):
sand until you have no choicebut to do something, and at that
point it's very painful.
And so cognitive flexibility.
If we're just not really up tothe neurotypical standard, then
we're going to kind of struggle.
So you have new income, you havea big bonus.
What do you do with it?
You're used to the paycheck andyou're used to what you're
(17:05):
doing and you know.
And now you have this extraamount of money.
What do you do with it?
A lot of times you'll just dowhat the first impulse says,
where you'll think about it fora long time and get all twisted
up and then you'll just dosomething to just get rid of it,
or just to like say, okay, I'mjust gonna do this just so that
you've done something and youcan move on without really
knowing if it was the rightthing to do.
Or you just do nothing and letit sit there, or you just throw
(17:27):
it all at credit card debt,because that's the most pressing
thing that you have, going on,when maybe there was more
optimal things you could havedone.
It's very difficult just tothink through this, and I hear
this a lot from my clients.
It's just like one of thethings I constantly hear is that
they just want my guidance whenthey have a little bit of a
wind fall and the bonus orwhatever they just, they just
want to be told what to do withit, and I get it.
(17:49):
I mean that's, it is nice.
It is a nice thing.
It's simple, but it is nice.
Apart from doing like braintraining or I don't know, like
ask your therapist or your yourpsychiatrist what you can do to
help your cognitive flexibilityfor realsies.
But what you can also do ishave financial guardrails.
You can have a financialplanner like me.
(18:09):
You could have financial coach.
You could have very strictrules set up with different
accounts.
You can create things to helpyou navigate the decision-making
process, so that's easier whenthings do change.
A financial planner, though, islike, probably your best bet,
because I am one and you shouldbe my client.
(18:29):
Just kidding, but really thatis part of the value of having a
financial planner, because then, as soon as a financial
question hits your head and youdo not know the answer, you just
have a human to ask who alreadyknows all about your situation,
and that is a nice thing.
Ooh, this one's a biggie Taskinitiation.
Task initiation is second toworking memory.
(18:50):
My, the worst.
It's hard.
It's hard whenever I doinitiate the task.
Finally it goes decently.
But to start that task, I mean,boy, that is hard.
It's always the task for methat is related to client work.
So anything that has to do witha thing that I'm going to be
delivering, that causes myperfectionism to kind of come up
(19:14):
and just start to dominate my,my being.
I get stuck and I'll just findlittle diddly squat things to do
and not do the thing I shouldbe doing until it's last second.
Then I end up doing qualitywork that's not up to the
quality that I would have liked,but I had to get it done
because I had a meeting right.
So that's my biggest problem istask initiation in finances.
(19:35):
I'm okay with task initiation infinances.
I'll tell you what I'm okayBecause for me, task initiation
for finances comes down tothings like going in and up,
looking at my 401k contributions, going to Monarch and
organizing transactions andcategorizing and looking at the
budget, the plan page, andseeing how I'm doing, and
(19:58):
sitting there for 20 minutesjust staring at Monarch and
moving things around, like Ilike doing that.
I didn't used to.
It was hard, but you know I dolike it now and I'm okay with it
For a lot of you out there,though I know it's very hard
Taxes so hard to get started, sohard to even think like you're,
just like five brain gymnasticsmoves away from even being able
to consider starting some ofthe things that you know you
(20:21):
need to start.
So task initiation is a hugehard one.
Oh boy, so hard.
And from there I'm starting toget tired.
I need to go take a nap.
So let's just wrap this up.
We've got emotional regulationis very related to retail
therapy.
It's very related to spendingto get a dopamine fix.
It's very a thing that's very,very real.
(20:42):
What helps with this?
Exercise?
Feeling better helps with this.
That's my experience.
Solving the emotional situationat the core, at the root.
Is it your relationship?
Is it some sort of internalstrife you have with yourself?
Is it some sort of conflictwith your family?
(21:04):
What is it?
Is it just your brain, yourchemicals?
Do you need to go see yourpsychiatrist and try different
medication or whatever it is?
If you're constantly havingmood swings and you're
emotionally a little bitunstable and you find yourself
going to spending to solve anyof that, you're in trouble,
frankly.
(21:25):
I mean, I've been there, I stillgo there, for sure Not as bad.
I've read a lot of books.
Books help read books the moreyou read.
You just need to build up thatarmor of defense.
You need to build up theknowledge of why it's bad to
spend money you don't have.
Why is it bad?
What do you really want?
Like I've said that a billiontimes what do you want?
(21:47):
Money will not I mean thingswill not and cannot give you
true, fulfilling happiness.
Our economic system is set upin such a way that everyone is
incentivized to make you thinkthat, but it will not.
Once the last time you hadlasting joy like lasting true,
(22:08):
every day, smile on your face,happiness from a thing you
haven't, you won't but you wouldfrom having kids or having a
great relationship or havinggreat connections with family
and friends.
And that's where it's at, yo,that's where it's at.
That's where it's at.
So, exercise when you feel theurge to do real-time therapy, go
(22:30):
outside and run a lap or thinkabout your kids.
That's that.
That one helps me.
I just think about you know, mydaughter, and it makes me want
to act right.
And then, like, planning is anexecutive function that we ain't
so good at.
Organization we're not so goodat.
Well, sometimes I feel like I'mgood at organizing.
(22:51):
I can make pretty things andwhatever, but as soon as there's
one wrench in any system, Imake it's very unsettling and I
don't know what to do about ithalf the time.
So all I can say for this isget on an app, get on Monarch,
get on Mint, get on Rocket Money, which used to be True Bill
(23:12):
categorize budget and organizeit the best you can.
When you're thinking aboutcategories, it gets everybody.
Everybody struggles withcategories.
Here's a few things.
I'm going to end on this.
If you don't know what categoryto put it in, make a new one.
When in doubt, make a new one.
Never let yourself spend morethan a minute struggling to
(23:34):
figure out what to do, becausethis is not a science.
There's no perfect place.
At the end of the day, all youreally need to have categorized
correctly is expenses, income,transfers.
If expenses are labeled as anexpense and income is labeled as
income and transfers arelabeled as transfers, then you
have an accurate picture, monthto month, of how much money you
(23:54):
are accumulating in debt or howmuch money you are saving and
can invest and can build wealthand can make your dreams come
true.
So that's how I'm going to endthis episode.
Thanks for listening to myRamble.
It was a Ramble, it was fun.
I was going to go to the gymand I did this instead, but now
I'm going to go to the gym andI'm going to talk to you guys
later and I hope you have agreat weekend.
Summer.
(24:14):
Everything is going to be great.
We all are going to be great.
I love you guys.
See you soon.
Welcome back to ADHD Money Talk, the show that helps
dynamic but distracted ADHDbrains take back control over
their money in order to stressless, live a more rich life and
open up new and amazingpossibilities.
And either humble and quiteADHD-host, dave DeWitt.
My ADHD is awful.
(00:22):
Sometimes it just drives me upthe wall because the level of
working memory that I have isterrible.
Sometimes I'm doing thispodcast and I'm like stuttering,
or it's choppy and I'm pausingand I have to keep talking
because I can't hold a dang thawin my mind for long enough for
(00:43):
me to be able to speak it outsmoothly, because things come in
my brain and it drops in out indrop, drop, drop, drop.
So that's how I can go fromstarting a task on my computer
and maybe in five minutes I'vealready started four other tasks
and I cannot just continuedoing what I should be doing.
And I always have had thisthought of this dream of when I
(01:07):
start a task on my computer, thewords for what I'm doing and
need to keep doing would juststay on the computer and be
transcribed from my braindirectly onto a big script like
big text on the computer, so Ican just continue doing that
thing and not forget about it,because within five seconds I
sometimes forget and then I'm onto a new thing.
So even if I break up my day,you know I go on.
(01:29):
I'm using Sonsama now to helpme daily plan and it does help
me daily plan, but I can onlydaily plan so many small tasks,
but then, when little things,there's always that little,
really small task that youforgot about, that's in between
your other small tasks, that youthought were all of them, and
then you start doing the tasksthat you planned, but then you
(01:50):
have to do the other littletasks, but then you're flipping
to anything of another one andthen every time that I'm
starting a new task that pops mymind it's usually like an email
I forgot to answer or it's likesomething like that along those
lines.
I can't just write down.
I mean I could, maybe I should,but I couldn't put it in the
app every time like, okay, thisis what you're doing now,
(02:12):
because sometimes the tasksliterally will just take two
minutes and to like take time toopen up the app and like write
tasks down, I could have alreadydone it.
So it's just this big mess.
You know, here I am talkingabout it, but this is just my
struggle.
My working memory is so bad.
If you look at my IQ score, I'ma brilliant 109, I'm like
average, very averageintelligence, almost above
(02:34):
average, but I'm average.
So I have to accept that Ithink 110, in some way 110 would
mean that I was like more, likesuperior or like above average,
but I'm 109, so I'm average.
And I was talking to my ADHDcoach who I hope is listening,
and she's like a 139 and I'mlike dang, that's so smart and I
(02:57):
thought I was like sort ofsmart.
But when I found out that I wasa 109 because of this test, I
took this.
I took IQ test twice actuallyonce when I was very small, like
six years old, and one when Iwas in high school, and I scored
109 both times exactly.
So I feel pretty confident thatI'm a 109.
But if you look at it and we'regoing to get into what this
(03:20):
podcast is about we are going totalk about money today.
The IQ test I got.
This was part of my like youknow, if you listen to one of
the early episodes, I talkedabout this but I had like very
hardcore testing done.
I took all these tests.
I took Bender, gestalt,Stanford, bonaise Intelligence,
detroit Test of Learningaptitude.
(03:41):
Detroit Test of Learningaptitude 4, brown EDD scales.
Burns and Rowe in formal wordrecognition inventory.
Burns and Rowe, yada, yada,nelson, denny reading, woodcock,
jaffin tests of achievement God, that was like a test subject.
I felt like here's my IQ scoresfor each section of the IQ test
(04:02):
verbal comprehension 114, 82ndpercentile okay.
So I guess I've always excelledwith words more so than numbers
.
Huh, I'm an official planner.
What the heck am I doing inthis job?
Just kidding, I'm not.
I'm not picking that way, I'mnot.
I don't have imposter syndrome,I swear.
Perceptual reasoning 108, 70thpercentile okay, I'll take it.
(04:22):
Ranging speed 70 or 109, okay.
73rd percentile okay, I'll takeit.
Okay.
Feeling pretty good, full scaleIQ 109, that's the full one,
and I skipped one because I'mjust so ashamed of it.
Working memory 94 and the 34thpercentile.
(04:43):
So this has always made methink, like, to some extent I'm
like Is it ADHD or is that partof my brain just broken?
Like, do I get hit in the headreally hard on my working memory
section of my brain?
I don't entertain thosethoughts really, because it
could be, it could not be.
I don't know.
I don't really care.
I've accepted everything aboutit, but like it's the worst part
(05:05):
of my ADHD, the first year ofworking memory is how it's most
affected.
It's how it's gotten, andworking memory is one of those
things where, like it cantotally make you look dumb, like
it can be feel dumb, look dumb.
People will think you're dumb.
That's what I experienced withmy soccer story and my sports
(05:26):
and sus.
Because, because what this is?
You forget the name, you getlost in conversation, you can't
remember what they had just said, you have nothing to say back
to the person because you're toobusy trying to scramble to
remember what they said.
And then you feel awkward andthen you just nod your head and
stare blankly or stare throughthem and say I can't wait for
this guy to start talking.
What's my way out of here?
(05:46):
I feel like a dummy and thatsucks, it's not, doesn't feel
good, it's the worst.
Or, in my case, soccer practiceCoach is saying okay, you go,
you go from this spot to thisspot to this spot and back and
forth and then loop, you loopback and forth.
Okay, go do that.
And everyone's like yeah, wegot that, it's easy.
And I'm up.
I'm like, oh, okay, I won inthe wrong direction five times
in a row and then I'm beingyelled at and and all that.
(06:08):
It sucks, it hurts and it sucks.
So, but working memory sucksand ADHD, and that hurts money
too.
Like, how are you supposed toreally keep track of when I'm
spending, what's coming, what'scoming out?
I can't even remember my ownphone number sometimes.
It's crazy.
So, like, working memory sucksand that is an executive
(06:29):
function, and ADHD is a disorderof being executive function.
This is a disorder of yourprefrontal cortex that is not
getting enough dopamine.
I'm not a doctor, I'm not ascientist, I'm not a person that
knows things officially aboutthese things, so just don't take
my word for it.
So, just what I, myunderstanding, my understanding
is that we have, we every humansneed, like dopamine keeps us
(06:54):
feeling good and motivated,right, it's like the stain that
just like keeps us likeappropriately motivated to do
things, to get appropriaterewards at the appropriate time
and to understand the long termconsequences of things and so
that you act appropriately inalignment with those standard
(07:14):
long term.
You know, this is this is whatit gives you when it's
regulating through your brainproperly and it's not gone half
the time and then, but let'sstay in there when you do
something crazy.
So that's what ADHD is to me.
So I feel like I have it onthat front.
And then I also feel like Ihave it on the front of like
extra bad working memory,because it's just brutal
(07:35):
sometimes.
So you know, working memory islike the sticky note in your
brain that you can see andremember.
It's like you just took a notedown, you just heard someone's
name and it's stuck on yourbrain.
You can't forget it.
It's there.
You're holding that information.
You can only hold so much ofyour working memory, but it's
there.
(07:55):
And so when it comes tofinancial stuff, you're like,
okay, this bill's due on thisday, whatever it's on the sticky
note.
But that sticky note, the Rsticky note, is like looking at
the colorblind test.
When you're colorblind, youcan't remember, you can't see it
, it's blurry.
You're like, where is thenumber?
I don't see it, I can'tremember.
And then, and so if you're inthe middle needing to make a
(08:18):
decision about finances orwhatever and you just can't
remember what the rightinformation is, you're either
going to just shut down and donothing or you're just going to
make the decision go to a bad.
You'll figure out theconsequences later.
I mean, it's not easy to keeptrack of anything Like.
(08:39):
That's why I really I've alwaysrecommend tracking your
expenses.
You have to make that routineor the habit so automatic, like
it's got to be like okay, Ispent money on a thing.
I need to go right down in myspending journal what I wrote.
You need to make it so thatyou're doing that in the same
way that when you sit down onthe toilet you take out your
(09:01):
phone.
You know that's a muscle memory, that just happens.
You need to develop habitsthrough whatever means you
possibly can to get that done,and I talked to a lot of people
who want to control their.
When they pay bills.
They want to do it manually,they want to feel in control.
A lot of times this comesbecause you are so paycheck to
(09:22):
paycheck that you just want tomake sure you know by doing it
manually, you can makeabsolutely sure that you have
money in the account and won'tbe getting overdraft fees.
So if that's you, then I.
Well, if that's you.
Well, honestly, most peoplethat are doing that are pretty
actually good at it becausethey're so used to it, because
it's a rookie, it's a habit.
So you need to get routine andhabit going in other areas, like
(09:44):
tracking your expenses, becauseit's not the bills that are the
problem, it's the handing overof the card.
It's that it's usually theproblem and just a complete lack
of awareness of what's actuallygoing out besides the bills.
You know you've paid the energybill enough times, you've paid
the rent enough times to be ableto remember that, because
eventually, like we can rememberthings, our long-term memory
(10:04):
isn't so bad, but it's all thethings that are temporary.
So we're probably like 12minutes into this podcast, 13
minutes, and this podcast isabout executive functions and
money.
I hope you got that point.
I know I just started talkingabout me and my problems and my
working memory, but we're goingto keep talking for the next six
(10:25):
minutes or so about the otherexecutive functions that it
affects.
So let's continue on Impulsecontrol.
Impulse control, you know Ialways feel like they're all
related, like my brain doesn'treally separate out very well,
like, yes, I understand thatimpulse control is like you have
an impulse to do something andyou can't control it, but it's
(10:47):
all interrelated because howmuch of you be unable to stop
the impulses due to the factthat you can't remember the
reason why you shouldn't do thething in the first place.
So it's like working memory,impulse or interrelated,
regardless.
We all know what it's like.
I mean, this year I had fivemonths good, like I was as
tracking and as, unfortunately,dictatorial as I ever have been
(11:10):
about expending, expenses andstuff.
Part of it's because I'm alittle bit overly controlling,
just being honest, and I work onthat.
But there's always a centraltheme and it's like if I'm not
in control or I'm notcontrolling, then I feel like
it's lost and I'm just lost.
So that's why I feel likecontrol for me is very important
.
It keeps me feeling sane.
(11:32):
But this month of July just gotcompletely out of hand.
I utterly obliterated my budgetfor July.
Now I'll be honest with you,it's not as bad because I'm
blessed and I have income.
That's pretty good these days.
It's keeping me going.
It was just so far off from mygoal.
You know we did some things tothe house and that we had been
(11:54):
planning on.
Well, we were planning.
So this is how it goes.
We've been talking for likefour years about doing things to
the house, right, but we didn'treally say when we would do it,
and so I've been setting asidesome money for it.
But then, because we have a kidcoming in October, for whatever
reason, it was just like, okay,this is the month, and we just
(12:15):
looked at each other, mirror,like Chachin, let's go buy the
stuff.
And so it wasn't just thefridge and the dishwasher, but
it was also, you know, their newrecess lights, and it was this,
and that is like I just pulledforward all the projects and
just said July is the month andpart of what I do when I do this
.
It was impulse.
It, without a question, isimpulse.
It, I mean, you know, and thisis how spending snowballs, you,
(12:36):
you do the one thing, you letloose and you spend money after
you have it in a while and youget that rush of return of, like
the feet, the dopamine.
It comes strong, and then youhaven't had that kind of
dopamine in a while, and so youjust want more, you just want
more, and so it was so mucheasier for me then, well, after
(12:58):
I made the first decision and Ibought the appliances so we
really needed a fridge, like youshould have seen the block of
ice that came out of thatfreedom, that was broken.
It was insane.
But you do the one thing andThen, because you did the one
thing, it's so much easier to dothe next and the next and the
next, and the next, and the nextand the next.
It's like breaking the dam.
(13:19):
And so then the impulse of thisjust comes off and it probably
it's because you were so tiredfrom resisting all of your the
impulse.
But and you know, this podcastis actually going to just be
whatever, it's just gonna,because I can't keep this going
forever.
So we're just gonna talk alittle bit more about this,
because now I want to thoughtthat I think is useful.
So this actually is a goodreal-time example of the
improvement that I have made inlife find my financial ability
(13:42):
To recover.
So if this was me before,having done the mental work
before, having learned aboutPersonal finance to the extent
that I have over the past twoyears, before, I Honestly just
was older, because when I was 27, I was just first of all in my
20s and so I wasn't fully mature, and I'm still not fully mature
.
I'm second of all, I probablyhave the maturity of a 20 year
(14:04):
old because ADHD or just beingtoo spoiled or you know, I mean
like just whatever.
So what I'm trying to say is Nowthat I've been tracky on
Monarch first, you know prettymuch this whole year I'm very
keep very good close, look on,and even throughout this very
high spending period on thehouse, I still have looked at it
(14:26):
.
I faced it.
You know not as much and Iavoided it a bit, but I'm
looking at it and I'm acceptingit.
And I'm looking at August.
I am on August and I'm studyingthe budget for August and I
have this flood of confidenceand it's so much easier for me
to pivot back to me how I needto be, whereas before this I
would never even spot until itwas too late to stop.
(14:50):
So that is the improvement thatI've made, an improvement that
you can make just simply bykeeping at it.
It's just and that's really allit is.
Take the things of principles Ilaid out in the beginning of
this podcast tracking on paper,using Monarch, just looking at
it every day for five minutes,you'll make progress.
Impulse control is a A stronggoal, let's be real.
(15:16):
Another one is cognitiveflexibility.
Cognitive flexibility is ourbrain's ability to shift between
different thoughts or actionsin response to changing
situations.
It's basically like our brain'sability to just transition from
task to task and likeefficiently do that and adapt to
(15:39):
new environments andcircumstances or change
strategies when current ones areineffective, and even just
recognizing when it'sineffective.
It's really a good skill tohave.
It's a great skill to have forproblem-solving and planning and
social interactions.
Yeah, so cognitive flexibilitythat's like when my wife is like
(15:59):
, hey, can you come do thisthing?
And my brain was like, well, Iwas gonna do this thing and
that's what I really wanted todo.
So it's like literally pullingmy teeth sometimes too.
For me to get up and do theother thing and switch my brain
like I hit my cognitiveflexibility is pretty bad.
I'm just gonna tell you thatright now and in finances,
you're already overwhelmedenough trying to juggle tasks at
(16:20):
work, trying to juggle yourhome life with the kids and with
your marriage and witheverything or you know,
relationship, whatever.
Then, when financial stuffcomes up, you already want to
avoid it and now you have tomake change your plans
financially and well, the restis history for a lot of us.
We just don't and we justcontinue on until we're forced.
See, with finances it's so easyto do bury your head in the
(16:42):
sand until you have no choicebut to do something, and at that
point it's very painful.
And so cognitive flexibility.
If we're just not really up tothe neurotypical standard, then
we're going to kind of struggle.
So you have new income, you havea big bonus.
What do you do with it?
You're used to the paycheck andyou're used to what you're
(17:05):
doing and you know.
And now you have this extraamount of money.
What do you do with it?
A lot of times you'll just dowhat the first impulse says,
where you'll think about it fora long time and get all twisted
up and then you'll just dosomething to just get rid of it,
or just to like say, okay, I'mjust gonna do this just so that
you've done something and youcan move on without really
knowing if it was the rightthing to do.
Or you just do nothing and letit sit there, or you just throw
(17:27):
it all at credit card debt,because that's the most pressing
thing that you have, going on,when maybe there was more
optimal things you could havedone.
It's very difficult just tothink through this, and I hear
this a lot from my clients.
It's just like one of thethings I constantly hear is that
they just want my guidance whenthey have a little bit of a
wind fall and the bonus orwhatever they just, they just
want to be told what to do withit, and I get it.
(17:49):
I mean that's, it is nice.
It is a nice thing.
It's simple, but it is nice.
Apart from doing like braintraining or I don't know, like
ask your therapist or your yourpsychiatrist what you can do to
help your cognitive flexibilityfor realsies.
But what you can also do ishave financial guardrails.
You can have a financialplanner like me.
(18:09):
You could have financial coach.
You could have very strictrules set up with different
accounts.
You can create things to helpyou navigate the decision-making
process, so that's easier whenthings do change.
A financial planner, though, islike, probably your best bet,
because I am one and you shouldbe my client.
(18:29):
Just kidding, but really thatis part of the value of having a
financial planner, because then, as soon as a financial
question hits your head and youdo not know the answer, you just
have a human to ask who alreadyknows all about your situation,
and that is a nice thing.
Ooh, this one's a biggie Taskinitiation.
Task initiation is second toworking memory.
(18:50):
My, the worst.
It's hard.
It's hard whenever I doinitiate the task.
Finally it goes decently.
But to start that task, I mean,boy, that is hard.
It's always the task for methat is related to client work.
So anything that has to do witha thing that I'm going to be
delivering, that causes myperfectionism to kind of come up
(19:14):
and just start to dominate my,my being.
I get stuck and I'll just findlittle diddly squat things to do
and not do the thing I shouldbe doing until it's last second.
Then I end up doing qualitywork that's not up to the
quality that I would have liked,but I had to get it done
because I had a meeting right.
So that's my biggest problem istask initiation in finances.
(19:35):
I'm okay with task initiation infinances.
I'll tell you what I'm okayBecause for me, task initiation
for finances comes down tothings like going in and up,
looking at my 401k contributions, going to Monarch and
organizing transactions andcategorizing and looking at the
budget, the plan page, andseeing how I'm doing, and
(19:58):
sitting there for 20 minutesjust staring at Monarch and
moving things around, like Ilike doing that.
I didn't used to.
It was hard, but you know I dolike it now and I'm okay with it
For a lot of you out there,though I know it's very hard
Taxes so hard to get started, sohard to even think like you're,
just like five brain gymnasticsmoves away from even being able
to consider starting some ofthe things that you know you
(20:21):
need to start.
So task initiation is a hugehard one.
Oh boy, so hard.
And from there I'm starting toget tired.
I need to go take a nap.
So let's just wrap this up.
We've got emotional regulationis very related to retail
therapy.
It's very related to spendingto get a dopamine fix.
It's very a thing that's very,very real.
(20:42):
What helps with this?
Exercise?
Feeling better helps with this.
That's my experience.
Solving the emotional situationat the core, at the root.
Is it your relationship?
Is it some sort of internalstrife you have with yourself?
Is it some sort of conflictwith your family?
(21:04):
What is it?
Is it just your brain, yourchemicals?
Do you need to go see yourpsychiatrist and try different
medication or whatever it is?
If you're constantly havingmood swings and you're
emotionally a little bitunstable and you find yourself
going to spending to solve anyof that, you're in trouble,
frankly.
(21:25):
I mean, I've been there, I stillgo there, for sure Not as bad.
I've read a lot of books.
Books help read books the moreyou read.
You just need to build up thatarmor of defense.
You need to build up theknowledge of why it's bad to
spend money you don't have.
Why is it bad?
What do you really want?
Like I've said that a billiontimes what do you want?
(21:47):
Money will not I mean thingswill not and cannot give you
true, fulfilling happiness.
Our economic system is set upin such a way that everyone is
incentivized to make you thinkthat, but it will not.
Once the last time you hadlasting joy like lasting true,
(22:08):
every day, smile on your face,happiness from a thing you
haven't, you won't but you wouldfrom having kids or having a
great relationship or havinggreat connections with family
and friends.
And that's where it's at, yo,that's where it's at.
That's where it's at.
So, exercise when you feel theurge to do real-time therapy, go
(22:30):
outside and run a lap or thinkabout your kids.
That's that.
That one helps me.
I just think about you know, mydaughter, and it makes me want
to act right.
And then, like, planning is anexecutive function that we ain't
so good at.
Organization we're not so goodat.
Well, sometimes I feel like I'mgood at organizing.
(22:51):
I can make pretty things andwhatever, but as soon as there's
one wrench in any system, Imake it's very unsettling and I
don't know what to do about ithalf the time.
So all I can say for this isget on an app, get on Monarch,
get on Mint, get on Rocket Money, which used to be True Bill
(23:12):
categorize budget and organizeit the best you can.
When you're thinking aboutcategories, it gets everybody.
Everybody struggles withcategories.
Here's a few things.
I'm going to end on this.
If you don't know what categoryto put it in, make a new one.
When in doubt, make a new one.
Never let yourself spend morethan a minute struggling to
(23:34):
figure out what to do, becausethis is not a science.
There's no perfect place.
At the end of the day, all youreally need to have categorized
correctly is expenses, income,transfers.
If expenses are labeled as anexpense and income is labeled as
income and transfers arelabeled as transfers, then you
have an accurate picture, monthto month, of how much money you
(23:54):
are accumulating in debt or howmuch money you are saving and
can invest and can build wealthand can make your dreams come
true.
So that's how I'm going to endthis episode.
Thanks for listening to myRamble.
It was a Ramble, it was fun.
I was going to go to the gymand I did this instead, but now
I'm going to go to the gym andI'm going to talk to you guys
later and I hope you have agreat weekend.
Summer.
(24:14):
Everything is going to be great.
We all are going to be great.
I love you guys.
See you soon.
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