Episode Transcript
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Lucas Adheron (00:00):
Welcome to the
Deep Dive.
We're plunging into the hiddenlayers of, well, some pretty
fascinating topics.
Elena Bondwell (00:05):
Bringing you
insights you probably didn't
know you needed.
Lucas Adheron (00:08):
Exactly.
So have you ever wondered,like, how a zombie's gruesome
face stays put during a chasescene?
Elena Bondwell (00:15):
Or how a
spaceship model holds together
after getting blasted?
Lucas Adheron (00:18):
Right.
The unsung hero, the silentarchitect behind all that movie
magic is something you probablydon't even think about.
Adhesives.
Glue.
Elena Bondwell (00:27):
Today
Lucas Adheron (00:29):
we're doing a
deep dive into the world of
glues in Hollywood.
We'll cover everything from thevery start of cinema right up
to...
you know, modern blockbusters.
Elena Bondwell (00:38):
And our mission,
if you will.
Lucas Adheron (00:40):
Our mission is to
uncover how these seemingly
mundane materials are actuallyindispensable.
They enable pretty mucheverything you see on screen.
Sometimes they even drive theplot.
Elena Bondwell (00:49):
It really is
incredible.
The synergy between materialscience and filmmaking, it's
always been there, like hand inglove.
This whole unseen craft ofadhesives, it's basically the
backbone of cinematic illusion.
It makes things feel real,holds effects together,
literally.
Lucas Adheron (01:04):
Okay, let's
unpack that, starting right
Right at the beginning.
Humans have used adhesives for,what, millennia, long before we
really understood thechemistry.
Elena Bondwell (01:13):
Oh, absolutely.
We're talking basic organicglues.
Lucas Adheron (01:16):
Like record show
tree sap being used way back,
4000 BC, for fixing pottery.
Elena Bondwell (01:21):
Right.
And by 2000 BC, there wereactual written instructions for
making fish glue.
Imagine that.
Lucas Adheron (01:27):
Wow.
And the ancient Egyptians,around 1500 to 1000 BC, they
were masters at woodworking,murals, using animal-derived
glues.
You can even see it in theirstone carvings.
Elena Bondwell (01:38):
It just shows
how universal this need was.
Egyptians, Romans, Chinese,they all figured out how to
stick things together usingbiological stuff.
It established a sort oftechnological baseline.
Lucas Adheron (01:49):
But what were the
real downsides?
For, say, early theater or thevery first films.
Elena Bondwell (01:54):
Well, that's the
key thing.
These early organic adhesives,they had built-in limitations,
big ones for any kind ofproduction.
Okay.
They were hygroscopic.
Fancy word basically means theysoak up moisture.
Lucas Adheron (02:05):
Ah, right.
Not good.
Elena Bondwell (02:06):
Not good at all.
Imagine a prop or maybe somecostume detail.
A humid day.
A sweaty actor.
Disaster.
Exactly.
The glue shrinks, gets brittle,maybe discolors.
Your whole illusion just fallsapart mid-show.
Fish glue was especially badfor that.
Lucas Adheron (02:22):
So that
instability, that must have been
the push towards findingsomething better.
Elena Bondwell (02:26):
Precisely.
That inherent unpredictabilitydrove the search for synthetic
alternatives.
Filmmakers needed reliability,consistency.
Lucas Adheron (02:36):
Which brings us
to the early 20th century.
Elena Bondwell (02:38):
Yeah.
Lucas Adheron (02:39):
A massive shift,
right?
We start moving away from justusing what nature provided.
Elena Bondwell (02:43):
Mm-hmm.
Synthetics arrive, plastics,resins.
It's a whole new ballgame.
Lucas Adheron (02:48):
And it's wild how
World War I and World War II
just accelerated everything.
The demands of war reallypushed chemical research, didn't
they?
Elena Bondwell (02:55):
Dramatically.
And that had a direct impact onadhesives.
A really pivotal innovation wassomething called the Tego glue
film, patented in 1929.
Tego glue film.
What was special about it?
Lucas Adheron (03:05):
It was a dry
glue.
made from phenol resins,totally different from the
traditional wet glues that, likewe said, could go bad or be
really inconsistent.
Elena Bondwell (03:12):
Okay, dry glue,
so more stable.
Lucas Adheron (03:15):
Way more stable.
It offered, and this was huge,unlimited shelf life and
consistent quality.
Elena Bondwell (03:19):
Right.
Think about the film industrystarting up.
They needed things to berepeatable, reliable props,
reliable sets.
This kind of synthetic glueallowed for much greater
precision.
Less guesswork.
Lucas Adheron (03:31):
It basically
introduced predictability into
prop making.
Elena Bondwell (03:33):
Exactly.
A huge step forward.
Lucas Adheron (03:35):
So the wars
pushed the boundaries.
And then when things settleddown.
Did that chemical knowledgejust flood into civilian uses?
Like, did we get a ton of newglues there?
Elena Bondwell (03:44):
Absolutely.
The post-WWII era was anexplosion.
Adhesive diversity,specialization, it all took off,
driven by constant progress inindustrial chemicals, polymer
science.
Lucas Adheron (03:56):
So what kind of
new categories emerged?
Elena Bondwell (03:58):
Well, a big one
was pressure-sensitive
adhesives.
PSAs.
Like tape.
Sort of, but much moreadvanced.
The marble is they bond withjust light pressure.
No solvents, no water, no heat.
Easy.
Okay.
And they could be formulatedfor permanent or removable uses.
Think about that on a film set.
Lucas Adheron (04:15):
Oh, wow.
You could stick something uptemporarily.
Elena Bondwell (04:18):
Exactly.
Stick a prop somewhere, decideit's wrong, peel it off cleanly,
stick it somewhere else.
No damage, no residue.
Bostik makes some great onesnow.
Waterborne, UV acrylic.
Easy removal is key.
Lucas Adheron (04:32):
That must have
saved so much time and money and
allowed for more flexibility indesign.
Elena Bondwell (04:37):
Totally.
It unleashed a kind of creativespontaneity, changed how fast
you could try things out.
Dow also makes silicone PSAsthat are great for high temps.
Lucas Adheron (04:46):
Okay, what else
came out of that post-war boom?
Elena Bondwell (04:48):
Hot melt
adhesives.
Glue guns, basically, butindustrial strength.
They're 100% solid, you heatthem up, they melt, you apply,
they cool and bond.
Instantly.
Lucas Adheron (04:57):
Super fast.
Elena Bondwell (04:58):
Super fast.
Big productivity boost on set.
Plus, they generally have lowerVOCs, volatile organic
compounds, so safer air instudios.
Lucas Adheron (05:06):
And versatile.
Elena Bondwell (05:07):
Incredibly.
Metals, plastics, wood,fabrics, polyurethane, hot
melts, PURs are particularlygood.
Great thermal stability,flexible.
They even cure a bit more withmoisture from the air.
Lucas Adheron (05:18):
So for film
props, that means quick assembly
and they hold up under hotlights or action.
Elena Bondwell (05:22):
You got it.
A huge efficiency gain.
Lucas Adheron (05:24):
Any others we
should know about?
Elena Bondwell (05:25):
Silicone
adhesives definitely deserve a
mention.
Their big thing is hightemperature resistance, plus
they're conformable and strong.
You can get adhesion on demandat room temperature without
fancy equipment.
Lucas Adheron (05:37):
So for really
tough jobs.
Elena Bondwell (05:39):
Exactly.
Specialized stuff where youneed Extreme durability, maybe
under really harsh conditions onset, like something that needs
to survive being nearpyrotechnics or submerged.
Lucas Adheron (05:50):
It's amazing.
So these specialized syntheticsreally grew alongside the
complexity of filmmaking itself.
Elena Bondwell (05:56):
Directly
correlated.
They gave filmmakers the toolsto push boundaries, make things
faster, make things possiblethat just weren't before.
Lucas Adheron (06:04):
Okay, let's
switch gears.
Let's head over to the makeuptrailer.
Adhesives are just criticalthere for transforming actors,
right?
Elena Bondwell (06:09):
Absolutely
fundamental.
Character creation often...
Literally hinges on them.
Lucas Adheron (06:13):
So what's the old
standby, the one that's been
around forever?
Elena Bondwell (06:16):
That would be
spirit gum, a true theater
classic.
We're talking documented usesince the 1870s.
Lucas Adheron (06:22):
Wow, really?
Elena Bondwell (06:23):
Yeah.
Lucas Adheron (06:24):
It's basically
alcohol, SD.
Alcohol 35A is typical and aresin.
Originally mastics, maybeshellac now, some ethyl acetate.
Elena Bondwell (06:34):
And why is it
stuck around, pun intended?
Lucas Adheron (06:36):
Huh.
Well, it dries flat, almostinvisible.
That's crucial for lookingnatural on camera.
And it holds lightweightthings, securely laced beards,
mustaches, small prostheticpieces.
Elena Bondwell (06:47):
But it lets the
actor move their face.
Lucas Adheron (06:49):
That's the
genius.
It's durable but flexible.
It moves with the actor'sexpression so they don't look
like they're wearing a stiffmask.
That would totally kill theillusion.
Elena Bondwell (06:57):
Makes sense.
Did it have to change forthings like HD cameras?
Lucas Adheron (07:00):
It did adapt.
They developed things like TVspirit gum, which has a matte
finish to reduce shadows from,say, the lace edge of a beard.
And spirit gum pee is strongerfor performers who sweat a lot
or work in high humidity.
doesn't go white.
Elena Bondwell (07:14):
So even the
classics evolve.
Lucas Adheron (07:15):
Yeah.
Elena Bondwell (07:15):
Cool.
What came next?
You mentioned Pros-Aid earlier,the original.
Sounds important.
Lucas Adheron (07:19):
It was a huge
leap.
Pros-Aid has a fascinatingbackstory developed over 30
years ago by Dr.
Alfonso DiMeno.
Elena Bondwell (07:26):
But not for
movies initially.
It was for medical prosthetics,attaching artificial limbs and
things.
Lucas Adheron (07:31):
Oh, interesting.
So it was designed with skincontact in mind from the start.
Elena Bondwell (07:34):
Exactly.
And that medical origin is key.
It means it's non-toxic,non-irritating, completely
water-based.
It's FDA approved For actorswearing makeup for 12, 14, 16
hours, safety and comfort areparamount.
Lucas Adheron (07:49):
Absolutely.
And how does it perform?
Elena Bondwell (07:51):
It dries clear.
It's totally waterproof.
Very strong.
But crucially, it staysflexible.
That's the magic.
Prosthetics move naturally withthe skin.
Lucas Adheron (08:00):
So that's why it
became the industry standard.
Elena Bondwell (08:02):
Pretty much.
It's incredibly versatile, too.
Attaching foam appliances,masks, horns, big foam latex
pieces, gelatin, encapsulatedsilicone...
It handles it all.
Lucas Adheron (08:13):
You mentioned Pax
Paint earlier.
Elena Bondwell (08:14):
Right.
You can thicken Proseid to makePax Paint.
Makeup artists use that toblend edges, fill seams, even
paint on realistic scars ortextures directly onto the skin
or inside molds.
It's also the base forprosthetic transfers.
Lucas Adheron (08:26):
Transfers, like
temporary tattoos, but 3D.
Elena Bondwell (08:29):
Sort of, yeah.
It streamlines applying complexpieces.
Think about the zombie makeupin The Walking Dead.
Oh, yeah.
Lucas Adheron (08:34):
Or the Na'vi in
Avatar.
The silicone bodies in TheMatrix, Drax's tattoos and scars
in Guardians of the Galaxy.
Those were transfigurations.
Next up,
Elena Bondwell (08:45):
liquid latex.
The shapeshifter.
What's its deal?
Lucas Adheron (08:50):
Liquid latex is
super versatile.
Makeup, body paint, maskmaking, casting.
Elena Bondwell (08:56):
What's it made
of?
Lucas Adheron (08:57):
It's basically
natural rubber latex suspended
in water, usually with a littleammonia to keep it stable on the
shell.
Elena Bondwell (09:04):
And it's key
property?
Lucas Adheron (09:05):
Shrinkage.
It shrinks about 3% when itdries.
That tightening creates thisamazing second skin feeling.
Makes prosthetics look reallyintegrated, very realistic,
especially for subtle changes.
Elena Bondwell (09:16):
How do artists
use it?
Lucas Adheron (09:18):
Lots of ways.
Building up texture, you canmix it with cotton or tissue to
make scars, burns, sealing theedges of latex prosthetics,
casting new appliances, even asan adhesive for light things
like zippers on costumes.
Elena Bondwell (09:30):
How do you get
it off?
Lucas Adheron (09:31):
You just peel it
off, usually.
Water doesn't reactivate itonce it's dry.
Elena Bondwell (09:34):
But latex
allergies are a thing, right?
A big thing.
That's a major consideration.
Latex allergies are common, andthe ammonia can be irritating,
especially to the eyes.
You need good ventilation.
Lucas Adheron (09:46):
So that pushed
innovation, too.
Elena Bondwell (09:47):
Definitely.
The allergy issue was a bigdriver for developing
alternatives like silicone andgelatin-based appliances and
adhesives, safer for moreactors.
But latex was still huge forthings like the White Walkers
and Game of Thrones, lots ofclassic zombie looks.
Lucas Adheron (10:03):
So we've got the
classics, the workhorses.
But surely there are even morespecialized glues for really
tough film demands.
Longwear, sweat, HD cameras.
Elena Bondwell (10:12):
Oh, absolutely.
The industry has a wholetoolkit.
Ben Maya Prosthetic Adhesive,for instance.
It's strong, water-based, knownfor being durable and
sweat-resistant.
Great for latex pieces, clownnoses, sticking on little things
like rhinestones.
Okay.
Then there's Graftobian ProAdhesive.
This stuff is really strong.
It's a waterproof,medical-grade acrylic emulsion.
Dries clear, super powerful,but still flexible.
(10:35):
Who
Lucas Adheron (10:36):
uses that?
Elena Bondwell (10:37):
So these are the
heavy
Lucas Adheron (10:59):
hitters for
modern film makeup.
Tailored solutions for specifictough challenges.
Elena Bondwell (11:04):
Exactly.
every detail holds up, nomatter what the scene demands or
how close the camera gets.
Lucas Adheron (11:09):
Right.
Okay, let's shift focus again.
away from actors, towardbuilding the actual worlds.
Props and sets.
Glues must be just as vitalthere.
Elena Bondwell (11:17):
Absolutely
critical.
From the tiniest prop detail tomassive set structures.
Lucas Adheron (11:22):
Let's start with
the everyday hero.
Hot melt adhesives.
Glue guns.
Elena Bondwell (11:26):
Indispensable.
Their main advantages are speedand versatility.
Their thermoclastic polymers,stuff like polyurethane, EVA,
polyolefins, melt in the guncool and hard and fast.
Seconds sometimes.
Lucas Adheron (11:38):
That speed must
be crucial on set.
Elena Bondwell (11:40):
It's a huge
driver of efficiency Quick
assemblies, quick fixes, propbreaks right before a take, glue
gun to the rescue, plus longshelf life, fewer VOCs, safer
environment.
Lucas Adheron (11:50):
And they stick to
lots of things.
Elena Bondwell (11:52):
Wood, plastics,
fabrics, foam, really versatile.
But here's a cool thing propmakers do.
You can shape the hot gluewhile it's still warm.
Oh yeah,
Lucas Adheron (12:00):
like what?
Elena Bondwell (12:01):
Create
textures...
Dripping goo or wounds, maybealien horns or tentacles,
monster fins.
You can sculpt with it,basically.
Adds instant detail.
Cordless guns make it eveneasier and safer now, too.
Lucas Adheron (12:14):
That's clever.
Okay, but what about when youneed serious strength?
when things absolutely cannotfall apart.
Elena Bondwell (12:20):
That's epoxy
territory, epoxy adhesives and
resins.
They're usually two-partsystems, resin and hardener,
that you mix, and they cure atroom temperature into something
incredibly strong and durable.
Lucas Adheron (12:31):
So for bonding
parts to take a beating.
Elena Bondwell (12:32):
Exactly.
General bonding for wood,metal, plastics, making sure
props don't break during fightscenes or stunts.
But they're also used heavilyfor casting.
Lucas Adheron (12:40):
Casting?
Elena Bondwell (12:40):
Yeah,
fabricating rigid or semi-rigid
props.
You can pour epoxy resin intomolds.
Sometimes it's filled withaluminum powder.
for extra strength or heatresistance, especially if you're
making tools like molds forvacuum forming.
Lucas Adheron (12:54):
Ah, so you can
make multiple identical props.
Elena Bondwell (12:56):
Precisely.
Crucial for continuity if youneed backups or if props are
going to be destroyed on camera,think about famous movie props.
The Maltese Falcon replica,Indy's Crystal Skull, the Elder
Wand from Harry Potter, the Eyeof Sauron.
Chances are epoxy play a bigrole in making those solid,
detailed items.
Lucas Adheron (13:14):
Right, epoxy
builds the solid stuff.
What about more every day?
porous materials, wood, paper,fabric.
Elena Bondwell (13:22):
For that, you've
often got PVA glues, polyvinyl
acetate, think standard whiteschool glue, but often stronger
formulations for professionaluse.
Lucas Adheron (13:30):
Okay, the basic
white glue.
Why is it still used by pros?
Elena Bondwell (13:33):
Well, it's
economical, it's everywhere, and
it works really well on porousstuff like wood, paper,
cardboard, fabric.
It forms a strong, durablebond, dries clear or
translucent, which is good.
Lucas Adheron (13:43):
Easy to use too,
right?
Elena Bondwell (13:44):
Super easy water
cleanup.
You can even dilute it to useas a sealer or primer on
surfaces before painting.
The bond is semi-rigid but hassome flex.
And importantly, once it'scured, you can sand it and paint
over it.
The glue line disappears.
Lucas Adheron (13:59):
So it doesn't
mess up the final look.
Elena Bondwell (14:01):
Exactly.
Critical for props seen inclose-up, like the replica grail
diary from Indiana Jones.
PVA was used to bond theleather cover to the cardboard
structure.
Simple, effective, affordable.
Lucas Adheron (14:14):
Okay, got it.
Now what about contact cement?
That sounds intense.
Elena Bondwell (14:18):
Yeah.
Lucas Adheron (14:18):
Instant permanent
bonds.
Elena Bondwell (14:20):
It is pretty
intense.
It's a powerful, usuallysolvent-based adhesive, very
different application method.
Also.
You apply a thin layer to bothsurfaces you want to join.
Then you let the solventevaporate until the surfaces are
just tacky to the touch.
Okay.
And you press them together andbam, instant, super strong,
permanent bond, no clampingneeded usually.
Lucas Adheron (14:39):
Wow.
So when would you need thatkind of speed and permanence on
set?
Elena Bondwell (14:43):
Rapid assembly
is the big one, especially with
EVA foam.
You know, the stuff used for acosplay armor lots of movie
costumes and props because it'slight and easy to shape.
Lucas Adheron (14:51):
Yeah, I've seen
that.
Elena Bondwell (14:52):
Contact cement
is the go-to for sticking pieces
of EVA foam together quicklyand permanently.
Think about building orc armorfor Lord of the Rings.
Lots of shaped foam piecesjoined together.
Contact cement makes that fastand strong.
Lucas Adheron (15:06):
Makes sense.
Any downsides?
Elena Bondwell (15:07):
The fumes.
Because it's solvent-based, thefumes can be strong, often
toxic.
Definitely need goodventilation or a respirator.
Safety first.
Also pro tip, apply it afteryou heat shape your foam because
heat can reactivate theadhesive.
Lucas Adheron (15:21):
Good to know.
Okay, one more category.
Spray adhesives.
Aerosol cans.
Seems like they'd be good forbig areas.
Elena Bondwell (15:27):
Exactly.
Fast.
Fast and efficient for coveringlarge or irregularly shaped
surfaces.
You get nice uniform coverage,which helps get a smooth finish.
And they dry quickly.
Realistic.
Lots of things.
Fabric, foam, plastic, metal,wood.
Used for upholstery, stickingdown insulation, trim, crafts,
models, temporary signs.
Very versatile.
Lucas Adheron (15:48):
Is there an
advantage for film specifically?
Elena Bondwell (15:50):
A big one is
that they come in both
repositionable and permanentformulas.
The temporary sprays are goldfor set dressing.
put up wallpaper, posters,fabric.
If you need to adjust it, youcan peel it off and re-stick it
for a short time.
Lucas Adheron (16:03):
Flexible.
Elena Bondwell (16:04):
Very.
And they have another role too,beyond just bonding, aesthetic
control.
Ever heard of dulling spray?
Dulling spray.
No.
It's often a spray adhesiveformulation, but it dries to a
removable, cloudy, translucentfinish.
Cinematographers spray it onshiny surfaces, windows,
mirrors, chrome props to killunwanted reflections or glare
(16:25):
for the camera.
Lucas Adheron (16:26):
That's clever.
So spray adhesives help withboth building and controlling
the look of the set.
Elena Bondwell (16:30):
Yep.
Crucial for quick set changes,dressing large areas
efficiently, and maintainingthose high visual standards.
So when you step back and lookat it all, this whole journey of
adhesives in Hollywood, itreally highlights this deep
symbiotic link between materialscience and, well, cinematic
art.
Lucas Adheron (16:47):
Yeah, it really
does.
Elena Bondwell (16:48):
From those
ancient basic glues to today's
super specialized syntheticpolymers, adhesives have always
been the invisible backbone.
They make the illusionsbelievable.
Lucas Adheron (16:57):
And the history
shows this constant push, right?
precisely it's just incredibleto think about the sheer range
Elena Bondwell (17:10):
yeah
Lucas Adheron (17:11):
special effects
makeup changing actors keeping
them safe making it look realand then props and sets the
speed the strength the finallook they're involved in
everything
Elena Bondwell (17:21):
they really are
the hidden heroes like you said
which brings us to a finalthought maybe for you our
listener as movies keep evolvingas audiences expect more as
techniques get moresophisticated, The demand for
new adhesives isn't going away,is
Lucas Adheron (17:35):
it?
No, probably the opposite.
Elena Bondwell (17:38):
Right.
We'll need glues with maybeeven better flexibility for
robots or creatures, moredurability for insane action
sequences, maybe even smarterglues, glues that are kinder to
skin for longer prosthetic wear.
Lucas Adheron (17:50):
So the innovation
continues.
Elena Bondwell (17:51):
It has to.
So the question is, what'snext?
What future breakthroughs inadhesive science might unlock
the next big leap in moviemagic?
What do you think filmmakerswill be sticking together in 10,
20 years?
Lucas Adheron (18:03):
That's great
question to ponder.
Thank you for joining us onthis deep dive into the
surprisingly sticky world ofHollywood adhesives.
Hopefully you've gained a newappreciation for the science
behind the spectacle.
Elena Bondwell (18:15):
Yeah, next time
you watch a movie, maybe look a
little closer.
You might just appreciate theunseen science holding all that
Hollywood magic together.