Episode Transcript
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Lucas Adheron (00:00):
Welcome back to
the Deep Dive.
Today, we're diving into, well,a really fascinating paradox,
hydrogen.
You know, it's the smallestelement on the periodic table,
but somehow it creates some ofthe biggest, most complex
sealing dilemmas imaginable.
We're going to pull back thecurtain a bit on the hidden
world of advanced adhesives andsealants.
These are kind of the unsungheroes, absolutely essential for
(00:20):
making the hydrogen economysafe, efficient, and, you know,
truly scalable.
Elena Bondwell (00:25):
Exactly.
And our mission today really isto guide you through the, let's
say, the intricate materialscience behind keeping hydrogen
contained.
We'll look at the specificinnovations The industry
collaborations too, we've gotinsights from key players like
Bodo Möller Chemie, Dow, Henkel,companies really working to
overcome these challenges.
Yeah, the goal is to leave youthoroughly informed on this
(00:47):
pivotal technology.
Understanding the fundamentalhurdles, sure, but also
appreciating the ingenioussolutions making it all
possible.
Lucas Adheron (00:55):
Okay, so we
started by calling hydrogen a
paradox.
Tiny element, huge challenges.
Let's unpack why.
What makes this smallest ofelements such a...
such a nightmare to keepcontained.
Why is sealing it effectivelyso incredibly difficult?
Elena Bondwell (01:11):
It really all
boils down to its inherent
characteristics.
I mean, as the smallestmolecule, hydrogen has
exceptionally high permeability.
What that actually means ishydrogen molecules can just sort
of slip through materials thatwould easily hold back much
larger gases.
It's like imagine trying tohold water in a fishing net, but
on a molecular scale.
These tiny hydrogen particlesare just constantly probing,
(01:33):
looking for any micro pathwayout.
Lucas Adheron (01:35):
So it's not just
finding a way out.
It's always trying to find away out, even through materials
that seem solid.
Elena Bondwell (01:40):
Precisely.
And it gets worse.
Beyond just escaping, there's amuch more, well, insidious
problem, hydrogen embrittlement.
This is a really criticalphenomenon where hydrogen atoms
don't just leak past thematerial, they actually diffuse
into it.
Into the seal, yes, but alsointo adjacent metals.
And when these hydrogen atomsget inside the material
(02:01):
structure, they can weaken theatomic bonds, especially under
cyclic loading, pressure changesagain and again in a tank or
pipeline.
This process, it compromisesthe material's tough makes it
brittle and highly susceptibleto sudden failure.
So we're not just talking abouta slow leak.
We're talking about potentiallyundermining the structural
integrity of the whole system.
(02:21):
And frankly, that's why yourstandard elastomers, your
typical sealants, they oftenjust aren't up to the job.
They weren't designed for thiskind of dual attack.
Lucas Adheron (02:28):
Right.
So if hydrogen weakens both theseal and the metal next to it,
Does that mean we needcompletely new types of metal
alloys too, not just bittersealants?
Is it a dual challenge?
Elena Bondwell (02:38):
That's a really
sharp point.
Yes.
While today we're focused onthe adhesives and sealants,
you're absolutely right.
The broader hydrogen economyoften demands specialized alloys
and materials throughout thesystem specifically designed to
resist this embrittlement.
It's definitely a multifacetedmaterial science puzzle, and
seals are a very visible, verycritical piece of it.
Lucas Adheron (02:58):
Okay.
That makes total sense.
So we're talking serious risksthen, not just losing
efficiency, but real safetyconcerns, especially at those
weak points like, say, threadedconnections, where even a
microscopic leak could bedisastrous.
Elena Bondwell (03:12):
Exactly.
And if we zoom in on a keyapplication like fuel cell
stacks, the role of theseadhesives and sealants becomes
even clearer.
Think about the core of a fuelcell, the membrane electrode
assembly, the MEA, you've gothydrogen, oxygen, and coolant
channels all packed tightlytogether, often under pressure,
maintaining absolutely perfectgas tight separation between
(03:33):
them isn't just important.
It's well, it's non-negotiablefor performance and definitely
for safety.
Lucas Adheron (03:39):
OK, so even tiny
breaches in that MEA, what does
that actually lead to?
What are the real worldconsequences?
Elena Bondwell (03:46):
Well, even
minuscule leaks there can cause
significant efficiency dropsright away because the gases mix
and compromise the reaction.
This quickly leads toperformance degradation.
It shortens the life of these,frankly, very expensive fuel
cell stacks.
And in the worst case, yeah,system failure or safety issues.
It hits the economics and thesafety case hard.
Lucas Adheron (04:06):
Wow.
Okay.
So the slippery nature ofhydrogen plus this
embrittlement, it really makesstandard sealing methods
insufficient, which means weneed some seriously advanced
material science.
So how are engineers tacklingthis?
What are the key chemistries,the product innovation stepping
up to the plate and who's behindthem?
Elena Bondwell (04:24):
Yeah, this is
where the innovation is really
exciting.
We're seeing several categoriesof advanced solutions emerge.
Companies like Dow, Henkel,they're really at the forefront
here.
And importantly, you havetrusted global partners,
specialists in advanced adhesivetech like Bodo Möller Chemie,
who are key in actuallyrecommending and distributing
these cutting edge solutions,getting them into the right
hands in industry.
Lucas Adheron (04:45):
OK, before we get
right into sealing the hydrogen
itself, Let's touch on managingheat because these systems run
hot, right?
Our sources talk aboutsomething called Dalsol TC3065
thermal gel.
What makes this specificsilicone gel stand out for
thermal management, especiallymaybe in manufacturing?
Elena Bondwell (05:02):
Ah, yes.
The Dalsol TC3065 thermal gel.
It's quite an interestingmaterial.
It's a one-part thermallyconductive gel, easy to
dispense, curable, primarily fordissipating heat, keeping
things cool.
But the really key property,the thing that makes it stand
out is its reworkability.
It cures into this kind ofelastic pad.
Lucas Adheron (05:21):
Elastic pad.
Elena Bondwell (05:22):
Yeah.
And you can peel it offcompletely.
No residue left behind.
Think about what that means formanufacturing.
Lucas Adheron (05:27):
Ah, okay.
So if something goes wrong witha component.
Elena Bondwell (05:30):
Exactly.
You can salvage it.
Reclaim damaged or defectiveunits like complex PCB
assemblies.
It prevents scrapping expensiveparts, speeds up prototyping.
It's a huge deal for reducingwaste and cost and boosting
innovation speed.
Lucas Adheron (05:43):
That
reworkability sounds like a game
changer, honestly.
Not just cost, but speed andquality control.
What about its main job, thethermal performance.
Elena Bondwell (05:52):
Right.
It's not just about fixingmistakes.
It delivers excellent thermalperformance, too.
It has an impressive 6.5 wattsper meter Kelvin thermal
conductivity.
That's crucial for keepingpower devices cool under load.
It's often used as a thermalinterface material, say, for
optical transceivers or justgeneral thermal management on
PCB systems.
And it's durable, resistshumidity, harsh environments,
(06:14):
doesn't crack or slump.
Plus, it's flexible in how youapply and cure it.
Automated dispensing, screenprinting, You can cure it
relatively quickly at highertemps, like 120 degrees C, or
take longer at, say, 100 degreesC.
It even has a long workingtime, over five days at room
temp, which gives manufacturersflexibility.
And temperature-wise, it'sbuilt for 9 to 4.5, up to 150
degrees C long-term, potentiallyeven colder after checks.
(06:37):
So yeah, a very robust solutionall around.
Lucas Adheron (06:40):
Okay, super
comprehensive for the heat side
of things, performance, andmanufacturing friendliness.
Now let's pivot back to sealingthe actual hydrogen inside the
fuel cells.
Dow also has a Dow CLAC TC3065series But this sounds like it's
specifically for fuel cellmembranes and gaskets.
What's the advanced chemistrydoing the work here?
Elena Bondwell (06:57):
Yes.
That specific dowsile TC3665series for fuel cells uses what
are called selene-modifiedpolymer adhesives.
Think of them as advancedpolymers with silicone
components basically engineeredfor extreme durability and
chemical stability in harshenvironments.
But the critical feature, and Ireally can't stress this enough
for fuel cells, is theirincredibly low outgassing.
Lucas Adheron (07:19):
Low outgassing.
Why is that so valuable?
Because
Elena Bondwell (07:22):
even tiny
amounts of released chemicals or
outgassing inside a PM fuelcell can contaminate sensitive
components like the catalyst.
This acts like a poison,degrading performance over time,
drastically shortening thestack's life, leading to
premature failure.
It's absolutely critical forlong-term reliability and the
economics of these systems.
So these materials providestrong sealing, robust
(07:44):
performance, especially indemanding areas like heavy-duty
hydrogen transport.
They really tackle those corechallenges in fuel cell design
head-on They're valued fordurability, chemical stability,
temperature resistance.
It reinforces Dow's strength inthis area, you know, within
their wider Dow cell range.
Lucas Adheron (07:59):
Got it.
That outcasting point reallyclarifies the so what for system
longevity and cost.
Okay, let's tackle another bigone.
Thread sealing.
You flagged it earlier as a Pfailure point.
Microscopic leaks, there are aserious risk, right?
Especially across the wholehydrogen infrastructure.
Our sources highlight Henkel'sall-CTIT portfolio, recommended
(08:21):
by Bodo Möller Chemie here.
What specific L'Occitanesolutions are tackling this
challenge?
Elena Bondwell (08:27):
Right.
For those critical threadedconnections, and there are loads
of them in any hydrogen system,Henkel's L'Occitane range, as
highlighted by BodaMellor-Kemme, offers several
options that are actuallyhydrogen certified.
And that certification is key.
They meet QA GasTech QARR 214.
That's a tough, globallyrecognized standard specifically
for hydrogen service.
It proves they can handle it.
Lucas Adheron (08:47):
Okay.
So what are some examples?
Elena Bondwell (08:49):
Well, first up,
there's L'Occitane 55.
This one's quite unique.
It's not a paste or liquid.
It's a non-curing,multifilament thread seal cord.
Lucas Adheron (08:56):
A cord, like a
string.
Elena Bondwell (08:58):
Sort of, yeah.
You wrap it around the threads,the big advantage.
It gives an immediatefull-pressure seal, but you can
still easily readjust thefitting later without damaging
the threads or losing the sealintegrity.
Really handy for high-pressurehydrogen fittings where precise
alignment might be needed duringinstall or maintenance.
Lucas Adheron (09:15):
Interesting.
Okay, what else?
Elena Bondwell (09:16):
Then you have
Locte 567.
This is a high-viscosity paste.
It's an anaerobic cure.
Lucas Adheron (09:21):
Meaning it cures
without air.
Elena Bondwell (09:23):
Exactly.
Cures when it's confinedbetween metal threads.
It's designed for lowerpressure instant sealing on
threaded pipes.
Works with both common threadtypes, BSPT and NPT, and it's
got that GASTEC hydrogencertification.
Okay.
Similar, but different, isLOX-DT-577.
This one's yellow, also ananaerobic paste, but offers
(09:43):
medium strength, and it'sparticularly good at resisting
vibration.
Seals and locks metal threads,great chemical resistance, also
hydrogen certified.
Got it.
Lucas Adheron (09:51):
Medium strength,
vibration resistant.
resistant.
Elena Bondwell (09:53):
And finally,
LOGTEET 638.
This is a green anaerobicadhesive known for its really
high shear strength.
While its typical job might beretaining bearings on shafts,
its super strong bond makes itexcellent for ensuring high
pressure or extreme environment.
Threaded connections andhydrogen systems stay absolutely
leakproof, provides that extralayer of security.
Lucas Adheron (10:16):
So what's really
interesting here is the range.
You've got this flexible cordfor adjustability, then
different pastes for varyingRight up to a high-strength
Elena Bondwell (10:47):
adhesive.
where you need to tweak angles.
But for the absolute maximumpressure containment or
situations where you need apermanent rock-solid bond and
you know you won't need toadjust it later, then yes, an
anaerobic paste like thehigh-strength LOX-T638 once
(11:07):
fully cured might provide thatultimate level of security.
It really depends on thespecific application's demands
and the risk assessment.
You pick the right tool for thejob.
Lucas Adheron (11:16):
Right.
It highlights how manydifferent engineering needs
there are.
But, you know, just developingthese fancy materials isn't the
whole story, is it?
You mentioned certification.
Rigorous testing and globalstandards must be absolutely
critical for safety andperformance.
Elena Bondwell (11:29):
Oh, absolutely.
The regulatory and standardslandscape is fundamental.
You can't just say it works.
You need proof.
We're talking about crucialstandards like ISO 1467 that
defines hydrogen fuel qualityitself, which affects materials,
and SAE J2601, which coverssafe fueling protocols.
Beyond that, you need standardsthat set allowable permeation
(11:49):
thresholds, leak rates forthings like automotive fuel
cells, give Even how lickyhydrogen is, you need clear
benchmarks for safety.
Makes sense.
And then underpinning all thatare robust regulatory
frameworks, you know, EUhydrogen safety rules, Japan's
MIFI guidelines, U.S.
Department of Energy teststandards.
They all work together toensure these technologies are
deployed responsibly andreliably everywhere.
Lucas Adheron (12:10):
Yeah.
It's clear that this strongregulatory net is essential for
public trust and widespreadadoption.
It's not just making a goodseal.
It's proving objectively thatit can stand up to the toughest
demands day after day.
So if we connect all thesedots, the material science, the
specific products, thestandards, what's the bigger
picture?
Where is this heading?
(12:30):
How are these adhesive andsealant innovations actually
shaping the future of hydrogen,making more viable across
different sectors?
Elena Bondwell (12:36):
Well, the impact
is becoming really broad.
In mobility, we see theirimportance daily in fuel cell
cars, trucks, buses, not justsealing the stack, but also
integrating those high pressuretanks safely.
And it's pushing into tougherareas, too, like hydrogen
aviation and marineapplications.
Think about the vibrations andthe temperature cycles, the
constant pressure changes there,the sealing challenge is
(12:56):
immense.
Beyond transport, thesematerials are vital for
stationary power, backup energysystems, and really for the
entire hydrogen readyinfrastructure.
Compressors, pipelines, valves,they all need to handle
hydrogen safely and reliably.
And looking ahead, our sourceshint at some really cool future
possibilities.
Things like adhesive enabledseal in place gaskets, imagine
(13:19):
simplifying assembly andboosting durability that way, or
even self-healing sealantsdesigned for super long service
life that could really push theboundaries of reliability and
reduce maintenance needssignificantly.
You know, it raises thisfundamental question, just how
much do these often invisibletechnologies, these advanced
adhesives and sealants, underpinthe entire scalability and
safety of the hydrogen economy?
How are they turning thisnotoriously difficult molecule
(13:42):
into a practical energysolution, silently making it all
work?
Lucas Adheron (13:46):
Wow.
What an incredible deep dive.
It really drives home thatsealing hydrogen isn't some
minor detail.
It's a massive material sciencehurdle and these advanced
adhesives these gels thesethread sealants they are
absolutely critical enablersthey're right at the heart of
making a safer cleaner andgenuinely scalable hydrogen
(14:06):
future actually happen quietlybridging that gap from potential
to reality
Elena Bondwell (14:10):
exactly right
and maybe a final thought for
everyone listening Consider howthese invisible heroes we talked
about today, the adhesives, thesealants, are working silently
behind the scenes.
They're making something astricky as hydrogen practical for
everyday use.
So what other invisibletechnologies, things we barely
notice, are shaping our futurein profound ways, making the
(14:31):
seemingly impossible possible?
Lucas Adheron (14:33):
That's an
excellent thought to chew on and
a great reminder of the hiddeningenuity all around us.
We definitely encourage you tokeep exploring these fascinating
topics.
The whole world of materialscience is just full of
surprises.
Until next time on The DeepDive, keep digging deeper.