September 29, 2025 • 25 mins
The source provides an extensive overview of the development and context surrounding James Gunn's rebooted DC Universe (DCU) film, The Brave and the Bold, focusing on his vision for Batman. It explains that Gunn, co-CEO of DC Studios, recently quashed rumors of a major delay for the film, narrowing its expected release window to 2028 or 2029. The episode emphasizes that this DCU Batman will be an established, veteran hero who focuses on his relationship with his son, Damian Wayne (Robin), contrasting sharply with the separate, standalone "Elseworlds" Batman saga directed by Matt Reeves and starring Robert Pattinson. Gunn is committed to a "script-first" approach and maintaining a serious, non-campy tone for the Dark Knight, ensuring the character has a distinct reason for existing within a shared universe that includes Superman. The source also places The Brave and the Bold within the broader DCU slate, called "Chapter One: Gods and Monsters," and discusses the challenges and fan reaction to managing two simultaneous live-action versions of Batman.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the deep dive, where we try to make
sense of all the infos swirling around out there so
you don't feel quite so lost. And today we are
diving deep into maybe the most talked about, most picked
apart character in all of superhero movies, Batman.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It feels like there's always a Batman conversation happening somewhere,
doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Absolutely every new version, whether it's film, TV, even comics,
Still it just hits fever pitch, the scrutiny, the hopes.
It's intense.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
We've seen him done so many ways. Dark detective can't
be crusader tactical genius, right.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
So our goal today is to cut through all that history,
cut through the recent rumors, and give you the clearest
possible picture of what's happening in the new DCU Batman reboot,
the one titled The Brave and the Bold.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
And this isn't just guesswork. We're anchoring this whole discussion
around something very specific, very concrete, from the top from
DC Studio's co CEO James Gun himself.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Okay, what's the specific source.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
It was a comment he made on threads back on
September twenty ninth, twenty twenty five. It directly addressed all
the industry bugs about potential delays for the movie.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Ah right, because the worry was real, wasn't it. After
all the ups and downs of the old DCEU, people
were genuinely thinking the brave and the bold, let's call
it TBTB might get pushed.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Way back, waybacks, like twenty thirty maybe even twenty thirty one.
The thinking was, you know, they need to focus on Superman,
get Supergirl going. Batman might have to wait.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Understandable anxiety, I guess totally.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
But here's the key bit, the nugget that basically stopped
all that talk cold. Someone asked him directly on Threads
about that twenty twenty thirty one timeline. Is response, just
one word, No, that's it. That's it, simple, direct, confident,
and that single word, well, it instantly shrinks the possible
release windows.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So if it's not twenty thirty or twenty thirty one, then.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
It pretty much has to be twenty twenty eight or
twenty twenty nine. That's the only logical takeaway. It's a
huge signal about where they think the production is heading.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Okay, wow, so that's our starting point. Let's unpack what
that means. The big question for you listening is how
is this Batman, who we're hearing is older, has a
family dynamic, a veteran Dewey. How does he fit into
this new DCU, especially alongside the Matt Reeves Robert Pattinson Batman,
which is still going strong in its own separate world.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Exactly. It's a complicated. So we need to look at
the whole philosophy behind this new DCU chapter Gods and Monsters,
why those delay rumors even started, and crucially, how this
father son's story in TBTB is meant to anchor things.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
It feels like a really delicate balancing act they're attempting.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
It absolutely is a high wire act, really build on
careful planning and hopefully learning from past mistakes. So let's
start with that context, the foundation they're building on.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, you really have to go back to understand why
this reboot, this hard reset, was so necessary.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Oh, absolutely mandatory. The old system, the DCEU that kicked
off with Man of Steel back in twenty thirteen, it
just became unsustainable.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
It felt less like a plan and more like reacting
studio notes, changing things, directors having different visions trying to
rush to catch up with.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Marvel precisely, you had infamous examples like Justice League right
compromised by reshoots trying to force a lighter tone onto
something that wasn't built for it. It led to storylines
that didn't track characters acting inconsistently.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
An audience is noticed. You definitely felt that fatigue setting
in big time.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So when James Gun and Peter Saffran were given the
keys in late twenty twenty two, they inherited a brand
that was creatively well adrift. It needed a clear.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Direction on Gun's background was pretty perfect for that, wasn't
it coming off Guardians of the Galaxy.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Absolutely, He'd taken these relatively unknown Marvel characters and made
them household names. He found that magic mix of real emotion,
big action, and that slightly irreverent humor.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
That specific tone felt like exactly the DC universe needed,
especially with its heavier, more godlike figures.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
For sure, and the plan they rolled out in January
twenty twenty three, Chapter one Gods and Monsters was explicitly
a hard.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Reset, wiping the slate clean mostly.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Mostly yeah, actually not entirely. They weren't just throwing everything out.
They kept things that work that resonated. John Cena's Peacemaker
is the prime example. Right, the show is a hit,
huge hit, and keeping it showed they valued quality and
character connection over just sticking rigidly to old, messy continuity
tone over strict cannon.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
But the really fundamental shift, The thing that feels different
this time is that script first idea.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
That's the bedrock, honestly more important than any casting news.
The old way was pick a release date years out,
then tell a writer okay, deliver a script by this deadline,
ready or.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Not, which often leads to less than ideal scripts understatement.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So this new way, they let the projects develop, let
the writers figure out the story. The script has to
be right before they lock everything else in. No more
rushing to meet an arbitrary date.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
And we've already seen the payoff from that.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Approach, haven't we massively the new Superman film in twenty
twenty five, pulling in over one point two billion dollars worldwide.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
That wasn't just money, No, it felt like a validation
proof that this patient, quality first method could work even
for DC Exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
It set the bar. It showed audiences okay, this is
the standard now and every film that follows, especially a
character as huge as Batman, has to meet that standard.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Which brings us right back to the Batman challenge. Here's
the cornerstone, right, the gritty street level anchor. But how
do you make that Batman work in a world that
now officially includes Superman flying around, actual magic teams like
the Authority changing the global power balance.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
It's a massive puzzle tonally, how do you keep Batman
grounded and well Batman when he exists in such a
fantastical sandbox.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Gun has talked about his influences right for this.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Specific take, he has two main comic book touchstones seem key. First,
Frank Miller's The Dark Knight returns the classic.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
People usually focus on the darkness that grit there.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
And sure that's part of it, but I think what
Gun's really pulling for Miller is the idea of an
older Batman, maybe a bit worn down, cynical. Even Miller's
Batman comes back after years away, He's dealing with age,
the changing world. That sense of history of being a
veteran feels central to the DCU version.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Okay, so not a young Batman finding his.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Way, definitely not. And the second big influence points to
the other core element, Grant Morrison's run on the Batman comics.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Oh Morrison, that gets complicated, very focused on the bat
family right, almost like a weird dark soap opera.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Sometimes exactly, and that's the key differentiator. This DCU Batman
needs a clear reason to exist beyond just being Batman,
Warner Bros's biggest character. He can't just be a darker
version of the Reeves Pattinson take.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
So the Morrison influence brings in what legacy, fatherhood.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
All of the above, Morrison really dug into the idea
of the bat family as this complex, sometimes dysfunctional unit.
It means this Batman is likely defined by his relationships,
his mentorship role, and specifically the huge weight of being
a father, which leads us directly to the brain and
the bold.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
That title choice feels very intentional, very strategic for building
this shared universe.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Batman totally, because if you look at what TBTB is
actually about, narrative wise, it's doing something pretty bold right
out of the gate. It's explicitly not an origin story.
We're not seeing Thomas and Martha Wayne die again. We're
not seeing the first time he puts on the cowl.
Thank goodness, right, this Batman is already here. He's established
a seasoned operative. As the phrase they used, we're jumping
into his life midstream.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
So the implication is he's already been through a lot,
maybe multiple robins, major villains defeated exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
He has a history. The Batcave isn't some new setup.
It's probably filled with trophies and mementos from years of
crime fighting. His methods are honed, his code established.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
And the source material confirms this veteran status.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
You mentioned Morrison, Yes, specifically the run grant Morrison did
with artist Andy Kubert starting around two thousand and six.
That storyline fundamentally changed the Batman landscape.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
How so, what did it introduce that's so central to TBTV.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
It introduced the core conflict for this movie, a really
intense father son's story. Bruce Wayne discovers he has a
biological son he never knew about, Damian Wayne.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Okay, Damian Wayne, that's the name. Comic fans know. Well,
he's not your typical Robin.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Not even close. This isn't Bruce finding another orphan to train.
Damien was raised in secret by his mother, Talia al Ghoul.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Daughter of roz Algoul.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Within the League of Assassins. So Damien isn't just a kid.
He's a highly trained killer, a child soldier, basically an
assassin prodigy dropped into Bruce's life.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Wow. Okay, that's instant conflict right there. Bruce's one rule.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Is no killing, and Damien's been trained his whole life
that killing is not just acceptable, it's often the most
efficient way to solve a problem. It's a fundamental clash
of worldviews baked into their DNA.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
That's the drama. You don't need a complex external villain
plot when the core tension is internal between father and son.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Precisely, it fuels the action. Imagine the training scenes, the
arguments Damien may be using legal force when Bruce wouldn't.
It also provides the emotional core. Batman isn't just fighting crime.
He's fighting to connect with, maybe even save his own son,
who represents everything he stands against. It completely flips the
usual bat family dynamic.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
So let's talk about bringing that to screen. Andy Muskietti
is directing. He did the Flash, the IT movies, He
knows Spectacle knows horror. How do they nail the tone here,
especially with the lighter DCEU elements swirling around.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
That seems to be Gun's big focus protecting the tone.
He's been very emphatic, he said quite clearly, I'm not
interested in a funny, campy Batman.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Good to hear.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, the goal seems to be finding that sweet spot
noir grit with subtle wit. So expect it to feel serious, grounded,
maybe procedural, like a detective story, but layered with that messy,
volatile family stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Like the seriousness comes from Batman, but the situation itself,
having this assassin kid show up might have moments of
dark humor.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Or absurdity exactly. Think about the inherent chaos of Damian Wayne.
He's described as a prodigy and powder keg. That description
actually comes from his voice cameo appearance already.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Oh right, he was in the Creature Commando's animated series.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
The very first project of this new DCU chapter back
in twenty twenty four, voiced by Ivy Ivy. Just a
little intro, but it establishes him as this intense, potentially
violent kid. He's the kind of character who might bring
a sword to a fistfight.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
So he naturally injects that energy and maybe even some
unexpected laughs without forcing Batman himself to crack jokes.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That seems to be the plan. The drama and seriousness
stay with Bruce, but the situation around him is inherently
unstable and maybe darkly funny at times.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Okay, So even though gun shot down the twenty thirty
twenty thirty one rumors with that firm, no, we still
need to be patient. It's not coming next year. What's
the hold up? Based on what we know about production?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
It all comes back to that script first rule. Gunn
said himself in June twenty twenty five that he was
working very closely with the writer who hasn't been named yet.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
So he's personally over seeing it.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Deeply involved because getting Batman right is fundamental to the
whole DCU architecture. They can't afford a misstep here.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
And there was that deliberate pause in development late last year,
wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
That's right around December twenty twenty four, they consciously hit pause.
The reason given was strategic. They wanted to make absolutely
sure they weren't stepping on the toes of Matt Reeves
and the Batman Part two. Give that project clear creative space, makes.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Sense, avoid confusion or overlap exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
But the pause was brief. They were back at it
by February twenty twenty five and hired the writer soon after.
Mousquete's attached, but he's not deep in prep yet. He's
waiting for that finished script draft to review.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
And Gun's word is immediate production once that script hits
the mark.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
That's the promise. They're waiting for the right story, not
just the story to fit a release date. Quality control
is paramount.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Okay, this is where things get for me incredibly interesting.
The whole strategy of having two Batman running at the
same time. That feels like, well, DC's boldest gamble, yet.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
It's unprecedented for a character this big. Really, you've got
two major live action A list interpretations coexisting.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
So on one hand, the Reeves and Pattinson movies, the Elseworld
saga they're calling it right standalone.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Think of them like premium cable dramas. They exist outside
the main DCU continuity, so they can just focus entirely
on their own thing. Deep dives into psychology, Gotham's corruption,
that gritty street level crime feel. People compare the Batman
to things like Zodiac or seven more than superhero epics,
and The.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Batman Part two is locked for October twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Correct, it's its own contained universe.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Then, contrasting that, you have the brave and the bold
Batman who has to fit into the bigger DCU playground
with Superman, green lanterns, magic.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And crucially a different point in his career. Reeves Pattinson
is year two, still figuring things out. The DCU Batman,
thanks to that creature Commando's mentioned setting a flashback, is
established as having been Batman for around fifteen years.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Fifteen years versus year two, that's a huge difference in experience, perspective,
maybe even cynicism.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Immense difference. The Reeves Batman is raw, driven by that
initial trauma, still learning the ropes of being a detective
and a symbol. The DCU Batman is likely past that.
He's a strategist, a leader, probably carries the weight of
past failures, maybe lost allies, and now he's facing this
intensely personal challenge with Damian. The emotional core shifts from
(13:25):
how do I process my trauma to how do I
handle this legacy, this unexpected fatherhood.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
That difference alone justifies having two versions. Maybe they're exploring
totally different themes.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
That's the argument. Yeah, but it makes the release timing
absolutely critical. You can't just dump them both out close together.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
And gun confirmed they won't clash in twenty twenty seven, right,
he said, TBTB would probably not be the same year
as The Batman Part two exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
He acknowledged that on a podcast its signals they understand
the need for separation, give each version its own spotlight.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
So if The Batman Part two is October twenty twenty seven,
pushing TB two twenty twenty eight seems like the obvious move.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
It becomes the front runner. Absolutely. It allows the market,
the audience to fully engage with the Reeves film, appreciate
it for what it is, and then maybe six months
to a year later, pivot to this different, interconnected DCU
version without feeling confused or oversaturated.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
And looking at the rest of the DCU slate. That
twenty twenty eight timing fits nicely too, doesn't it perfectly?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
You'd have Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow in June twenty twenty six,
then the presumably darker, more philosophical Swamp Thing in twenty
twenty seven, TBTB in twenty twenty eight provides that big,
familiar anchor before they launched into maybe weirder stuff like
The Mister A prequel, Paradise Lost, or the Booster Gold
comedy series.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
It grounds the universe again after some potentially big swings.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Precisely, but this brings up that lingering question will audiences
get it? The whole Elseworld's versus main continuity thing?
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Gun seems pretty optimistic. He said something like the casuals
always understand.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
He did, and maybe he's right, but yeah, well, let's
be honest. The entire DCEU saga before him was plagued
by audience confusion about what was connected, what wasn't, different,
tones clashing. Isn't this dual batman approach playing with fire?
Given that history?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
It feels risky, you new Crystal Clear marketing.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Undeniably risky. His optimism might be a touch high there. However,
you could point to the Joker movie as a counter argument.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Ah, right, totally separate, huge hit exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
It proved audiences can accept a standalone DC's story if
it's clearly branded and totally distinct. So the bet here
is that Elseworld's is a strong enough label and the
feel of the Reeves movies will be so different prestige
crime drama versus interconnected superhero adventure that people will track.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
It fingers crossed on that one. Huh, Okay, let's stop
casting then, specifically Bruce Wayne for TBTV. We know Pattinson
is out for this.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Role for now. Yes, Gunn ruled out a direct crossover
for the start of the DCU.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
There was a little wiggle room in his comments later.
Wasn't there something about being more open to it than before?
Speaker 2 (15:59):
He did say that back in June twenty twenty five,
and he also admitted that they did discuss trying to
merge Pattinson's Batman into the main DCU when they first
took over.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Interesting, so while they're separate now, the door isn't completely
bolted for some far future multiverse thing.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
It suggests they're keeping long term options open, maybe ten
years down the line if the story demands it. It
fits the comic book tradition of crisis events and universe crossovers.
But for TBTB right now, they need their own Bruce Wayne, and.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
The profile they seem to be looking for is older
mid thirties.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
That seems to be the consensus from the rumors and
the logic of the timeline. Someone who reads is a
veteran who has the physicality but also the gravitas of experience.
Names like Glenn Powell or Aaron Taylor Johnson get thrown around.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Those kinds of actors. Established leading man potential can.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Handle action exactly. A mid thirties Batman works perfectly for
that fifteen year veteran timeline. It means he started young,
maybe lateeen's, early twenties. He's seen things, he commands respect.
He can believably be the father figure, albeit a conflicted
one to a teenager like Damien.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And Gun basically confirmed. They're still looking right, Yeah, taking
a fluid approach.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah, in August twenty twenty five, no decision made. They're
focused on finding the absolute right fit for this specific
version of Batman, not just casting a big name.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Okay, now, Robin, this feels crucial. The source material points
directly at Damian Wayne. That whole Assassin Sun dynamic is
the core. But you mentioned Gun was a big KG
in a recent interview.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
He was. In a September IGN interview, he avoided confirming
Damien specifically, which naturally sparks some fan theories. Could they
swap him out? Maybe use Tim Drake instead.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Tam Drake White Tim, He's a different kind of Robin,
more detective, less stabby.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Precisely from a purely screenwriting perspective, Tim Drake is simpler.
His backstory doesn't require explaining the League of Assassins Tali
al Ghoul, ros al Ghul, Lazarus pits all that dense mythology.
Damien comes with a lot of narrative baggage, so.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Switching to Tim would streamline the exposition needed in the movie,
get to the bad action faster.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Potentially, Yeah, it could make for a cleaner introductory film,
focusing justin Bruce and his new partner without needing massive
info dumps about ancient assassin cults.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
But yeah, wouldn't that gut the entire premise? The boldness
of the brave in the Bold seems tied to that
specific messed up father son dynamic, with Damien. Taking him
out feels like removing the heart of it.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I tend to agree it's the highest stakes version of
the story. My guess's gun is just playing koy, keeping
some cards close to his chest. The title itself implies
a team up a partner, a bat family member is
almost certainly required.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Damien provides the most unique drama, the most conflict.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
By far, He's the element that makes this Batman's story
feel truly different, especially contrasting with Superman's more straightforward heroism.
I'd be surprised if they ultimately discard Damien's core story,
even if they tweak the details.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Okay, let's zoom out again. Big picture. How does TBTB
arriving likely in twenty twenty eight function within the wider
DCU this God's and Monsters chapter. It's not just another
Batman movie. It's a piece of a larger.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Puzzle, absolutely critical piece. It acts as the grounding force
amidst incredible diversity of genre and tone. Think about what
comes before it in chapter one?
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Right, you mentioned creature commandos starting things off in twenty
twenty four, military action.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
With Monsters, then Superman in twenty twenty five, classic hopeful
superheroics that you've got Lanterns coming in twenty twenty six,
presumably a space cop sci fi procedural, Supergirl, Woman of
Tomorrow also in twenty twenty six, epic cosmic journey and
Swamp Thing in twenty twenty seven. It sounds like dark,
philosophical horror.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
That lineup is wild military monsters, space cops, cosmic epic
gothic horror. Where does Batman even fit.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
He's the reminder of the human scale, the street level reality,
even when Gods walk the Earth. TVTB slots in Likely
twenty twenty eight and says, Okay, all that stuff is real,
but Gotham still has crime, people still need protecting, and
family drama is still messy. It anchors the fantastic.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
And positioned right before potentially even stranger things like Paradise
Lost or Booster Goal exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
It recenters the universe before it expands again. It speaks
to Gun's stated goal prioritize the single story of the DCU,
build it piece by piece over a decade long arc,
rather than forcing connections too early.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Let the universe breathe, Let each piece land properly.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
And that careful pacing builds trust, build anticipation. It makes
the eventual team ups feel earned, not just mandated. Having
the seasoned, somewhat world weary Batman exist makes the introduction
of say Supergirl's cosmic power or swamp things elemental magic
feel weightier because you have this grounded human perspective reacting
to it now.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
The title itself the Brave and the Bold. Historically in
comics that means team ups right, usually Batman partnering with someone.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Else always, that's the legacy of the title. So cameos
and connections are practically baked in. We know Superman exists
in this universe. The question isn't if we'll see hints
of a larger team, but how and when?
Speaker 1 (20:58):
And there was that tease that TBTB might not actually
be the very first time we see this DCU Batman.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yes, Gun hinted at that back in July twenty twenty five.
He deliberately didn't confirm TBTB as Batman's absolute debut, which
is smart. Build the myth before you show the man.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
So how did that work? What kind of teas are
we talking? A glimpse in the Superman sequel, Maybe.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Could be maybe just a silhouette, a piece of tech
left behind, a news report mentioning the bat Maybe in
the Lantern Show, a quick scene where a criminal is
taken down off screen, leaving behind only a battering.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Just enough to let the audience know he's out there operating.
Building that legend within the world before his own movie.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Lands, exactly like how marvel Te's Thanos for years. It
makes his eventual full arrival in TBTB feel like a
major event, not just another introduction. Turn the anticipation into
part of the narrative.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
That's clever, smart universe building. But we have to be
realistic too. There are challenges, the shadow of the DCEU's
financial disappointments, potential industry strikes. Things can still derail even
the best laid plans.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Those are absolutely real world factors. Studio budget scrutiny is
intense after some high profile flops. Strikes can halt everything.
But there are counterweights like the Superman success. That's number one.
It proved the new leadership and their model can deliver
a massive global hit. That buys a lot of confidence
and goodwill. And second, they're not putting all their eggs
in one basket. You have Peacemaker season two coming in
(22:26):
twenty twenty six, other shows Potentially they keep the DCU
alive and kicking in the public consciousness between the big movie.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Releases, more sustained presence.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Right, TBTB isn't launching into a vacuum. It's joining an
ongoing story that helps mitigate some.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Risks, and how are the fans the public reacting to
all this gun being so open clarifying the timeline, the tone.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
It seems largely positive though you always get debates with Batman,
but the clarity, especially that know about the twenty thirty delay,
was definitely reassuring for many. People seem to like the
commitment to a serious Batman, even within a potentially lighter universe.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, comments online seem to reflect that people praising the vision,
connecting the dots on the twenty twenty eight release making
sense after reeves the twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Film, Folks like at Royal Mage thirty c on X
highlighting the consistent tone message, or at Bruce Wayne mapping
out why the twenty twenty eight logic works for marketing separation.
It feels like the core audience is tracking the.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Strategy and maybe this specific type of Batman story, the veteran,
the father dealing with legacy, just feels right for where
superhero stories are now moving beyond the origin.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I think so it feels like a maturation. We've explored
the initial trauma endlessly. Now let's see the long term
consequences of being Batman. How does it affect your ability
to connect to be father? It resonates with the world
perhaps experiencing a bit of hero fatigue and looking for
more complex character arcs.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Okay, let's try and wrap this all up. Then, for
everyone listening, what are the absolute key things to take
away from this veep dive today?
Speaker 2 (23:55):
All right? Takeaway number one, the timeline is much clearer.
Guns No firmly points to the brave and the bold
hitting in twenty twenty eight or twenty twenty nine. The
DCU slate is moving forward with confidence.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Takeaway number two. The story is locked in. It's a
serious father son drama centered on Bruce Wayne and Damian Wayne,
his assassin's son. Expect high emotional stakes, unique action, and
a core conflict about morality and legacy.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Takeaway number three. The two Batman strategy is deliberate and distinct.
For now, Reeves Pattinson is the standalone else World's crime saga.
TBTB is the integrated veteran DCU Batman. Clear separation now,
but maybe just maybe long term flexibility for future crossovers.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
And practically speaking, if you're watching the calendar.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Look for script news perhaps early twenty twenty six. Casting
announcements could follow midyear. Filming likely starts sometime in twenty
twenty seven. To hit that twenty twenty eight twenty twenty
nine window and keep your eyes peeled during the next
Superman movie in twenty twenty seven for a possible first glimpse.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Even if it's just a shadow, the big insight here
really seems to be Gun and Saffren's commitment to getting
this story right first. This Batman isn't just plug and play.
He's a carefully considered piece designed to anchor this whole
universe tone one exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
He's the necessary grit among the gods and monsters, which
leaves us with one final thought for you to chew
on until we actually see this thing, likely in twenty
twenty eight. We know Gun wants Batman to stay serious,
even standing next to Superman, but the Brave and the
Bold is fundamentally about Bruce dealing with Damien. This kid
(25:28):
raised by Assassins a literal emotional hand grenade, right, So
maybe the real boldness of the movie won't just be
the action or the stakes. Maybe it'll be watching this
ultra controlled, pragmatic, serious Batman try to handle the messy, unpredictable,
deeply personal chaos of pure family dysfunction. That's a challenge
maybe even the Joker couldn't throw at him.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
How does Batman handle a moody, deadly teenager who's also
his son. That's definitely something to think about. Okay, that
wraps up this deep dive. Thanks for joining us, and
we'll catch you on the next one.
Welcome to the deep dive, where we try to make
sense of all the infos swirling around out there so
you don't feel quite so lost. And today we are
diving deep into maybe the most talked about, most picked
apart character in all of superhero movies, Batman.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It feels like there's always a Batman conversation happening somewhere,
doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Absolutely every new version, whether it's film, TV, even comics,
Still it just hits fever pitch, the scrutiny, the hopes.
It's intense.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
We've seen him done so many ways. Dark detective can't
be crusader tactical genius, right.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
So our goal today is to cut through all that history,
cut through the recent rumors, and give you the clearest
possible picture of what's happening in the new DCU Batman reboot,
the one titled The Brave and the Bold.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
And this isn't just guesswork. We're anchoring this whole discussion
around something very specific, very concrete, from the top from
DC Studio's co CEO James Gun himself.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Okay, what's the specific source.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
It was a comment he made on threads back on
September twenty ninth, twenty twenty five. It directly addressed all
the industry bugs about potential delays for the movie.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Ah right, because the worry was real, wasn't it. After
all the ups and downs of the old DCEU, people
were genuinely thinking the brave and the bold, let's call
it TBTB might get pushed.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Way back, waybacks, like twenty thirty maybe even twenty thirty one.
The thinking was, you know, they need to focus on Superman,
get Supergirl going. Batman might have to wait.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Understandable anxiety, I guess totally.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
But here's the key bit, the nugget that basically stopped
all that talk cold. Someone asked him directly on Threads
about that twenty twenty thirty one timeline. Is response, just
one word, No, that's it. That's it, simple, direct, confident,
and that single word, well, it instantly shrinks the possible
release windows.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So if it's not twenty thirty or twenty thirty one, then.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
It pretty much has to be twenty twenty eight or
twenty twenty nine. That's the only logical takeaway. It's a
huge signal about where they think the production is heading.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Okay, wow, so that's our starting point. Let's unpack what
that means. The big question for you listening is how
is this Batman, who we're hearing is older, has a
family dynamic, a veteran Dewey. How does he fit into
this new DCU, especially alongside the Matt Reeves Robert Pattinson Batman,
which is still going strong in its own separate world.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Exactly. It's a complicated. So we need to look at
the whole philosophy behind this new DCU chapter Gods and Monsters,
why those delay rumors even started, and crucially, how this
father son's story in TBTB is meant to anchor things.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
It feels like a really delicate balancing act they're attempting.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
It absolutely is a high wire act, really build on
careful planning and hopefully learning from past mistakes. So let's
start with that context, the foundation they're building on.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, you really have to go back to understand why
this reboot, this hard reset, was so necessary.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Oh, absolutely mandatory. The old system, the DCEU that kicked
off with Man of Steel back in twenty thirteen, it
just became unsustainable.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
It felt less like a plan and more like reacting
studio notes, changing things, directors having different visions trying to
rush to catch up with.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Marvel precisely, you had infamous examples like Justice League right
compromised by reshoots trying to force a lighter tone onto
something that wasn't built for it. It led to storylines
that didn't track characters acting inconsistently.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
An audience is noticed. You definitely felt that fatigue setting
in big time.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So when James Gun and Peter Saffran were given the
keys in late twenty twenty two, they inherited a brand
that was creatively well adrift. It needed a clear.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Direction on Gun's background was pretty perfect for that, wasn't
it coming off Guardians of the Galaxy.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Absolutely, He'd taken these relatively unknown Marvel characters and made
them household names. He found that magic mix of real emotion,
big action, and that slightly irreverent humor.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
That specific tone felt like exactly the DC universe needed,
especially with its heavier, more godlike figures.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
For sure, and the plan they rolled out in January
twenty twenty three, Chapter one Gods and Monsters was explicitly
a hard.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Reset, wiping the slate clean mostly.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Mostly yeah, actually not entirely. They weren't just throwing everything out.
They kept things that work that resonated. John Cena's Peacemaker
is the prime example. Right, the show is a hit,
huge hit, and keeping it showed they valued quality and
character connection over just sticking rigidly to old, messy continuity
tone over strict cannon.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
But the really fundamental shift, The thing that feels different
this time is that script first idea.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
That's the bedrock, honestly more important than any casting news.
The old way was pick a release date years out,
then tell a writer okay, deliver a script by this deadline,
ready or.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Not, which often leads to less than ideal scripts understatement.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So this new way, they let the projects develop, let
the writers figure out the story. The script has to
be right before they lock everything else in. No more
rushing to meet an arbitrary date.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
And we've already seen the payoff from that.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Approach, haven't we massively the new Superman film in twenty
twenty five, pulling in over one point two billion dollars worldwide.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
That wasn't just money, No, it felt like a validation
proof that this patient, quality first method could work even
for DC Exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
It set the bar. It showed audiences okay, this is
the standard now and every film that follows, especially a
character as huge as Batman, has to meet that standard.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Which brings us right back to the Batman challenge. Here's
the cornerstone, right, the gritty street level anchor. But how
do you make that Batman work in a world that
now officially includes Superman flying around, actual magic teams like
the Authority changing the global power balance.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
It's a massive puzzle tonally, how do you keep Batman
grounded and well Batman when he exists in such a
fantastical sandbox.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Gun has talked about his influences right for this.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Specific take, he has two main comic book touchstones seem key. First,
Frank Miller's The Dark Knight returns the classic.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
People usually focus on the darkness that grit there.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
And sure that's part of it, but I think what
Gun's really pulling for Miller is the idea of an
older Batman, maybe a bit worn down, cynical. Even Miller's
Batman comes back after years away, He's dealing with age,
the changing world. That sense of history of being a
veteran feels central to the DCU version.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Okay, so not a young Batman finding his.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Way, definitely not. And the second big influence points to
the other core element, Grant Morrison's run on the Batman comics.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Oh Morrison, that gets complicated, very focused on the bat
family right, almost like a weird dark soap opera.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Sometimes exactly, and that's the key differentiator. This DCU Batman
needs a clear reason to exist beyond just being Batman,
Warner Bros's biggest character. He can't just be a darker
version of the Reeves Pattinson take.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
So the Morrison influence brings in what legacy, fatherhood.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
All of the above, Morrison really dug into the idea
of the bat family as this complex, sometimes dysfunctional unit.
It means this Batman is likely defined by his relationships,
his mentorship role, and specifically the huge weight of being
a father, which leads us directly to the brain and
the bold.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
That title choice feels very intentional, very strategic for building
this shared universe.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Batman totally, because if you look at what TBTB is
actually about, narrative wise, it's doing something pretty bold right
out of the gate. It's explicitly not an origin story.
We're not seeing Thomas and Martha Wayne die again. We're
not seeing the first time he puts on the cowl.
Thank goodness, right, this Batman is already here. He's established
a seasoned operative. As the phrase they used, we're jumping
into his life midstream.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
So the implication is he's already been through a lot,
maybe multiple robins, major villains defeated exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
He has a history. The Batcave isn't some new setup.
It's probably filled with trophies and mementos from years of
crime fighting. His methods are honed, his code established.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
And the source material confirms this veteran status.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
You mentioned Morrison, Yes, specifically the run grant Morrison did
with artist Andy Kubert starting around two thousand and six.
That storyline fundamentally changed the Batman landscape.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
How so, what did it introduce that's so central to TBTV.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
It introduced the core conflict for this movie, a really
intense father son's story. Bruce Wayne discovers he has a
biological son he never knew about, Damian Wayne.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Okay, Damian Wayne, that's the name. Comic fans know. Well,
he's not your typical Robin.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Not even close. This isn't Bruce finding another orphan to train.
Damien was raised in secret by his mother, Talia al Ghoul.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Daughter of roz Algoul.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Within the League of Assassins. So Damien isn't just a kid.
He's a highly trained killer, a child soldier, basically an
assassin prodigy dropped into Bruce's life.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Wow. Okay, that's instant conflict right there. Bruce's one rule.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Is no killing, and Damien's been trained his whole life
that killing is not just acceptable, it's often the most
efficient way to solve a problem. It's a fundamental clash
of worldviews baked into their DNA.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
That's the drama. You don't need a complex external villain
plot when the core tension is internal between father and son.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Precisely, it fuels the action. Imagine the training scenes, the
arguments Damien may be using legal force when Bruce wouldn't.
It also provides the emotional core. Batman isn't just fighting crime.
He's fighting to connect with, maybe even save his own son,
who represents everything he stands against. It completely flips the
usual bat family dynamic.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
So let's talk about bringing that to screen. Andy Muskietti
is directing. He did the Flash, the IT movies, He
knows Spectacle knows horror. How do they nail the tone here,
especially with the lighter DCEU elements swirling around.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
That seems to be Gun's big focus protecting the tone.
He's been very emphatic, he said quite clearly, I'm not
interested in a funny, campy Batman.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Good to hear.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, the goal seems to be finding that sweet spot
noir grit with subtle wit. So expect it to feel serious, grounded,
maybe procedural, like a detective story, but layered with that messy,
volatile family stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Like the seriousness comes from Batman, but the situation itself,
having this assassin kid show up might have moments of
dark humor.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Or absurdity exactly. Think about the inherent chaos of Damian Wayne.
He's described as a prodigy and powder keg. That description
actually comes from his voice cameo appearance already.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Oh right, he was in the Creature Commando's animated series.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
The very first project of this new DCU chapter back
in twenty twenty four, voiced by Ivy Ivy. Just a
little intro, but it establishes him as this intense, potentially
violent kid. He's the kind of character who might bring
a sword to a fistfight.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
So he naturally injects that energy and maybe even some
unexpected laughs without forcing Batman himself to crack jokes.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That seems to be the plan. The drama and seriousness
stay with Bruce, but the situation around him is inherently
unstable and maybe darkly funny at times.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Okay, So even though gun shot down the twenty thirty
twenty thirty one rumors with that firm, no, we still
need to be patient. It's not coming next year. What's
the hold up? Based on what we know about production?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
It all comes back to that script first rule. Gunn
said himself in June twenty twenty five that he was
working very closely with the writer who hasn't been named yet.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
So he's personally over seeing it.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Deeply involved because getting Batman right is fundamental to the
whole DCU architecture. They can't afford a misstep here.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
And there was that deliberate pause in development late last year,
wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
That's right around December twenty twenty four, they consciously hit pause.
The reason given was strategic. They wanted to make absolutely
sure they weren't stepping on the toes of Matt Reeves
and the Batman Part two. Give that project clear creative space, makes.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Sense, avoid confusion or overlap exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
But the pause was brief. They were back at it
by February twenty twenty five and hired the writer soon after.
Mousquete's attached, but he's not deep in prep yet. He's
waiting for that finished script draft to review.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
And Gun's word is immediate production once that script hits
the mark.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
That's the promise. They're waiting for the right story, not
just the story to fit a release date. Quality control
is paramount.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Okay, this is where things get for me incredibly interesting.
The whole strategy of having two Batman running at the
same time. That feels like, well, DC's boldest gamble, yet.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
It's unprecedented for a character this big. Really, you've got
two major live action A list interpretations coexisting.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
So on one hand, the Reeves and Pattinson movies, the Elseworld
saga they're calling it right standalone.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Think of them like premium cable dramas. They exist outside
the main DCU continuity, so they can just focus entirely
on their own thing. Deep dives into psychology, Gotham's corruption,
that gritty street level crime feel. People compare the Batman
to things like Zodiac or seven more than superhero epics,
and The.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Batman Part two is locked for October twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Correct, it's its own contained universe.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Then, contrasting that, you have the brave and the bold
Batman who has to fit into the bigger DCU playground
with Superman, green lanterns, magic.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And crucially a different point in his career. Reeves Pattinson
is year two, still figuring things out. The DCU Batman,
thanks to that creature Commando's mentioned setting a flashback, is
established as having been Batman for around fifteen years.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Fifteen years versus year two, that's a huge difference in experience, perspective,
maybe even cynicism.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Immense difference. The Reeves Batman is raw, driven by that
initial trauma, still learning the ropes of being a detective
and a symbol. The DCU Batman is likely past that.
He's a strategist, a leader, probably carries the weight of
past failures, maybe lost allies, and now he's facing this
intensely personal challenge with Damian. The emotional core shifts from
(13:25):
how do I process my trauma to how do I
handle this legacy, this unexpected fatherhood.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
That difference alone justifies having two versions. Maybe they're exploring
totally different themes.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
That's the argument. Yeah, but it makes the release timing
absolutely critical. You can't just dump them both out close together.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
And gun confirmed they won't clash in twenty twenty seven, right,
he said, TBTB would probably not be the same year
as The Batman Part two exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
He acknowledged that on a podcast its signals they understand
the need for separation, give each version its own spotlight.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
So if The Batman Part two is October twenty twenty seven,
pushing TB two twenty twenty eight seems like the obvious move.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
It becomes the front runner. Absolutely. It allows the market,
the audience to fully engage with the Reeves film, appreciate
it for what it is, and then maybe six months
to a year later, pivot to this different, interconnected DCU
version without feeling confused or oversaturated.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
And looking at the rest of the DCU slate. That
twenty twenty eight timing fits nicely too, doesn't it perfectly?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
You'd have Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow in June twenty twenty six,
then the presumably darker, more philosophical Swamp Thing in twenty
twenty seven, TBTB in twenty twenty eight provides that big,
familiar anchor before they launched into maybe weirder stuff like
The Mister A prequel, Paradise Lost, or the Booster Gold
comedy series.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
It grounds the universe again after some potentially big swings.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Precisely, but this brings up that lingering question will audiences
get it? The whole Elseworld's versus main continuity thing?
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Gun seems pretty optimistic. He said something like the casuals
always understand.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
He did, and maybe he's right, but yeah, well, let's
be honest. The entire DCEU saga before him was plagued
by audience confusion about what was connected, what wasn't, different,
tones clashing. Isn't this dual batman approach playing with fire?
Given that history?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
It feels risky, you new Crystal Clear marketing.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Undeniably risky. His optimism might be a touch high there. However,
you could point to the Joker movie as a counter argument.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Ah, right, totally separate, huge hit exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
It proved audiences can accept a standalone DC's story if
it's clearly branded and totally distinct. So the bet here
is that Elseworld's is a strong enough label and the
feel of the Reeves movies will be so different prestige
crime drama versus interconnected superhero adventure that people will track.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
It fingers crossed on that one. Huh, Okay, let's stop
casting then, specifically Bruce Wayne for TBTV. We know Pattinson
is out for this.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Role for now. Yes, Gunn ruled out a direct crossover
for the start of the DCU.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
There was a little wiggle room in his comments later.
Wasn't there something about being more open to it than before?
Speaker 2 (15:59):
He did say that back in June twenty twenty five,
and he also admitted that they did discuss trying to
merge Pattinson's Batman into the main DCU when they first
took over.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Interesting, so while they're separate now, the door isn't completely
bolted for some far future multiverse thing.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
It suggests they're keeping long term options open, maybe ten
years down the line if the story demands it. It
fits the comic book tradition of crisis events and universe crossovers.
But for TBTB right now, they need their own Bruce Wayne, and.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
The profile they seem to be looking for is older
mid thirties.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
That seems to be the consensus from the rumors and
the logic of the timeline. Someone who reads is a
veteran who has the physicality but also the gravitas of experience.
Names like Glenn Powell or Aaron Taylor Johnson get thrown around.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Those kinds of actors. Established leading man potential can.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Handle action exactly. A mid thirties Batman works perfectly for
that fifteen year veteran timeline. It means he started young,
maybe lateeen's, early twenties. He's seen things, he commands respect.
He can believably be the father figure, albeit a conflicted
one to a teenager like Damien.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And Gun basically confirmed. They're still looking right, Yeah, taking
a fluid approach.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah, in August twenty twenty five, no decision made. They're
focused on finding the absolute right fit for this specific
version of Batman, not just casting a big name.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Okay, now, Robin, this feels crucial. The source material points
directly at Damian Wayne. That whole Assassin Sun dynamic is
the core. But you mentioned Gun was a big KG
in a recent interview.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
He was. In a September IGN interview, he avoided confirming
Damien specifically, which naturally sparks some fan theories. Could they
swap him out? Maybe use Tim Drake instead.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Tam Drake White Tim, He's a different kind of Robin,
more detective, less stabby.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Precisely from a purely screenwriting perspective, Tim Drake is simpler.
His backstory doesn't require explaining the League of Assassins Tali
al Ghoul, ros al Ghul, Lazarus pits all that dense mythology.
Damien comes with a lot of narrative baggage, so.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Switching to Tim would streamline the exposition needed in the movie,
get to the bad action faster.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Potentially, Yeah, it could make for a cleaner introductory film,
focusing justin Bruce and his new partner without needing massive
info dumps about ancient assassin cults.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
But yeah, wouldn't that gut the entire premise? The boldness
of the brave in the Bold seems tied to that
specific messed up father son dynamic, with Damien. Taking him
out feels like removing the heart of it.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I tend to agree it's the highest stakes version of
the story. My guess's gun is just playing koy, keeping
some cards close to his chest. The title itself implies
a team up a partner, a bat family member is
almost certainly required.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Damien provides the most unique drama, the most conflict.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
By far, He's the element that makes this Batman's story
feel truly different, especially contrasting with Superman's more straightforward heroism.
I'd be surprised if they ultimately discard Damien's core story,
even if they tweak the details.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Okay, let's zoom out again. Big picture. How does TBTB
arriving likely in twenty twenty eight function within the wider
DCU this God's and Monsters chapter. It's not just another
Batman movie. It's a piece of a larger.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Puzzle, absolutely critical piece. It acts as the grounding force
amidst incredible diversity of genre and tone. Think about what
comes before it in chapter one?
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Right, you mentioned creature commandos starting things off in twenty
twenty four, military action.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
With Monsters, then Superman in twenty twenty five, classic hopeful
superheroics that you've got Lanterns coming in twenty twenty six,
presumably a space cop sci fi procedural, Supergirl, Woman of
Tomorrow also in twenty twenty six, epic cosmic journey and
Swamp Thing in twenty twenty seven. It sounds like dark,
philosophical horror.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
That lineup is wild military monsters, space cops, cosmic epic
gothic horror. Where does Batman even fit.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
He's the reminder of the human scale, the street level reality,
even when Gods walk the Earth. TVTB slots in Likely
twenty twenty eight and says, Okay, all that stuff is real,
but Gotham still has crime, people still need protecting, and
family drama is still messy. It anchors the fantastic.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
And positioned right before potentially even stranger things like Paradise
Lost or Booster Goal exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
It recenters the universe before it expands again. It speaks
to Gun's stated goal prioritize the single story of the DCU,
build it piece by piece over a decade long arc,
rather than forcing connections too early.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Let the universe breathe, Let each piece land properly.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
And that careful pacing builds trust, build anticipation. It makes
the eventual team ups feel earned, not just mandated. Having
the seasoned, somewhat world weary Batman exist makes the introduction
of say Supergirl's cosmic power or swamp things elemental magic
feel weightier because you have this grounded human perspective reacting
to it now.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
The title itself the Brave and the Bold. Historically in
comics that means team ups right, usually Batman partnering with someone.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Else always, that's the legacy of the title. So cameos
and connections are practically baked in. We know Superman exists
in this universe. The question isn't if we'll see hints
of a larger team, but how and when?
Speaker 1 (20:58):
And there was that tease that TBTB might not actually
be the very first time we see this DCU Batman.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yes, Gun hinted at that back in July twenty twenty five.
He deliberately didn't confirm TBTB as Batman's absolute debut, which
is smart. Build the myth before you show the man.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
So how did that work? What kind of teas are
we talking? A glimpse in the Superman sequel, Maybe.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Could be maybe just a silhouette, a piece of tech
left behind, a news report mentioning the bat Maybe in
the Lantern Show, a quick scene where a criminal is
taken down off screen, leaving behind only a battering.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Just enough to let the audience know he's out there operating.
Building that legend within the world before his own movie.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Lands, exactly like how marvel Te's Thanos for years. It
makes his eventual full arrival in TBTB feel like a
major event, not just another introduction. Turn the anticipation into
part of the narrative.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
That's clever, smart universe building. But we have to be
realistic too. There are challenges, the shadow of the DCEU's
financial disappointments, potential industry strikes. Things can still derail even
the best laid plans.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Those are absolutely real world factors. Studio budget scrutiny is
intense after some high profile flops. Strikes can halt everything.
But there are counterweights like the Superman success. That's number one.
It proved the new leadership and their model can deliver
a massive global hit. That buys a lot of confidence
and goodwill. And second, they're not putting all their eggs
in one basket. You have Peacemaker season two coming in
(22:26):
twenty twenty six, other shows Potentially they keep the DCU
alive and kicking in the public consciousness between the big movie.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Releases, more sustained presence.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Right, TBTB isn't launching into a vacuum. It's joining an
ongoing story that helps mitigate some.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Risks, and how are the fans the public reacting to
all this gun being so open clarifying the timeline, the tone.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
It seems largely positive though you always get debates with Batman,
but the clarity, especially that know about the twenty thirty delay,
was definitely reassuring for many. People seem to like the
commitment to a serious Batman, even within a potentially lighter universe.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, comments online seem to reflect that people praising the vision,
connecting the dots on the twenty twenty eight release making
sense after reeves the twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Film, Folks like at Royal Mage thirty c on X
highlighting the consistent tone message, or at Bruce Wayne mapping
out why the twenty twenty eight logic works for marketing separation.
It feels like the core audience is tracking the.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Strategy and maybe this specific type of Batman story, the veteran,
the father dealing with legacy, just feels right for where
superhero stories are now moving beyond the origin.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I think so it feels like a maturation. We've explored
the initial trauma endlessly. Now let's see the long term
consequences of being Batman. How does it affect your ability
to connect to be father? It resonates with the world
perhaps experiencing a bit of hero fatigue and looking for
more complex character arcs.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Okay, let's try and wrap this all up. Then, for
everyone listening, what are the absolute key things to take
away from this veep dive today?
Speaker 2 (23:55):
All right? Takeaway number one, the timeline is much clearer.
Guns No firmly points to the brave and the bold
hitting in twenty twenty eight or twenty twenty nine. The
DCU slate is moving forward with confidence.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Takeaway number two. The story is locked in. It's a
serious father son drama centered on Bruce Wayne and Damian Wayne,
his assassin's son. Expect high emotional stakes, unique action, and
a core conflict about morality and legacy.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Takeaway number three. The two Batman strategy is deliberate and distinct.
For now, Reeves Pattinson is the standalone else World's crime saga.
TBTB is the integrated veteran DCU Batman. Clear separation now,
but maybe just maybe long term flexibility for future crossovers.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
And practically speaking, if you're watching the calendar.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Look for script news perhaps early twenty twenty six. Casting
announcements could follow midyear. Filming likely starts sometime in twenty
twenty seven. To hit that twenty twenty eight twenty twenty
nine window and keep your eyes peeled during the next
Superman movie in twenty twenty seven for a possible first glimpse.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Even if it's just a shadow, the big insight here
really seems to be Gun and Saffren's commitment to getting
this story right first. This Batman isn't just plug and play.
He's a carefully considered piece designed to anchor this whole
universe tone one exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
He's the necessary grit among the gods and monsters, which
leaves us with one final thought for you to chew
on until we actually see this thing, likely in twenty
twenty eight. We know Gun wants Batman to stay serious,
even standing next to Superman, but the Brave and the
Bold is fundamentally about Bruce dealing with Damien. This kid
(25:28):
raised by Assassins a literal emotional hand grenade, right, So
maybe the real boldness of the movie won't just be
the action or the stakes. Maybe it'll be watching this
ultra controlled, pragmatic, serious Batman try to handle the messy, unpredictable,
deeply personal chaos of pure family dysfunction. That's a challenge
maybe even the Joker couldn't throw at him.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
How does Batman handle a moody, deadly teenager who's also
his son. That's definitely something to think about. Okay, that
wraps up this deep dive. Thanks for joining us, and
we'll catch you on the next one.
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