October 1, 2025 • 26 mins
The episode explains why the Star Wars franchise is making a significant shift by moving beyond the Skywalker Saga, which had been its central focus for nearly fifty years. This transition is motivated by several factors, including the fact that the Skywalker story arc is considered complete following the sequel trilogy, the presence of growing fan fatigue with repeated themes and reliance on nostalgia, and the undeniable success of recent non-Skywalker-centric stories like The Mandalorian and Andor. The decision to prioritize the film The Mandalorian & Grogu as the next theatrical release signals this new direction, allowing the franchise to explore vast new eras and characters, granting filmmakers more creative freedom away from core family constraints, and ensuring the saga's long-term relevance and innovation.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
For gosh, almost fifty years now and you said Star
Wars really one family sprang to mind, didn't it.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oh? Absolutely, the Skywalkers.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Anakin, Luke Lea, their whole story across nine huge films.
They were, I mean, they were the absolute heart of
that galaxy.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
The singular focus, really.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Going all the way back to you know, Luke looking
out at those twin sons on Tattooing and a New
Hope nineteen seventy seven.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Wow, it really is the definition of a generational saga,
isn't it. Those nine mainline movies what we all call
the Skywalker saga now, right from Phantom Menace right up
to the Rise of Skywalker. Yeah, it tracked their wins
their losses there well, their epic struggles finding that balance
between light and dark. The whole thing, the whole Star
Wars building, rested on them.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
But things have changed, I mean really changed. Lucasfilm's next movie,
the one hitting theaters in twenty twenty six, it's not
about a Skywalker. It's the Mandalorian and gro Goo. And
this feels like more than just you know, a fun
side question.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Oh, it's definitely strategic.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
This feels like a a deliberate pivot away from the
family that basically started it all.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
It's more than just turning a page, like you said,
It's like closing the entire first volume, a foundational chapter.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Okay, So that's what we're diving into today, right. We
want to analyze this strategic shift, look at the key
things pushing it.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Exactly, things like well, the story just being finished, narrative closure,
also what the fans were saying, fan demand, and crucially
those experiments on streaming that really took.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Off, all leading Lucasfilm to prioritize stories outside the Skywalker line,
like this Mando movie over the family drama that defines
Star Wars for half a century.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So the big question for us and for you listening
is why now?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, why make this move now? And what does it
really mean for the future of that galaxy far far away?
Why should you care about this big strategic shuffle.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Okay, let's unpack it. Reason number one seems pretty clear.
The story itself, the narrative imperative after nine films, was
a Skywalker story just done? Had it reached its natural end?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
From a storytelling perspective, Yeah, I think you have to
say it had structurally thematically, Yeah, the narrative really demanded closure.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
It's such a long arc when you think about it,
it's huge.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
It traces Anakin Skywalker's rise, his tragic fall into becoming
Darth Vader, and then critically his redemption and then all
the fallout for his kids, his descendants.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
The redemption part feels key there Anakin's choice, right that
moment in Return of the Jedi. Once that's resolved and
the consequences play out, where else is there to go
with that.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Core story exactly? Functionally, that core conflict is complete, and
the sequel trilogy episodes seven, eight, and nine, their job
was basically to put the final punctuation mark on it all.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Did they succeed? That's maybe another conversation.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Well, they certainly aim for closure. By the end of
the Rise of Skywalker. You definitely get some strong symbolic moments. Rady,
you know, the main character of that trilogy. Yeah, she
specifically rejects her own bloodline wing. She's a Palpatine, the
ultimate evil lineage, and she chooses instead to adopt the
Skywalker name.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
That moment taking the name that feels really significant, doesn't it.
It's like saying the legacy goes on, but the conflict
associated with that name is over.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Precisely, she's carrying the torch, the positive legacy, not the
burden of the family's internal struggles, and crucially, the big one,
the underlying fight of the whole saga Jedi versus Sith,
that'supposed to be over too. Palpatine is defeated seemingly for
good this time.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Okay, but wait, If the Sith are defeated once and
for all, doesn't that create a huge strategic problem for
continuing the Skywalker story If you keep focusing on them,
don't you risk either having to invent some new ultimate
evil which feels cheap.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Or bring back the old ultimate evil, which also feels cheap.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Exactly, you risk making the previous victories feel i don't know, temporary,
less meaningful.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
That's the absolute core risk redundancy. If you try to
shoehorn new galaxy altering stakes into that Skywalker framework after
its result, you start watering down the emotional impact of
those original nine films Right the second you bring Palpatine
back like they did, well, you arguably lessen the weight
of Anakin sacrifice back in episode six. It just starts
to feel confrived, like the story spinning its wheels because
(04:16):
it has to involve these specific.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Characters and Lucasfilm leadership they seem to get this. There
was that quote from Kathleen Kennedy, the president of Lucasfilm,
back in twenty twenty three that felt like the official
sign off on moving on.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Oh, that quote was huge. It basically laid out the
new doctrine. She said very clearly, the Skywalker saga is done,
full stop.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
But she didn't stop there, did she.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
No. She immediately followed up with, but the galaxy is vast,
and we're excited to explore new corners of it. That's
not just pr speak. That's a massive statement of intent.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
It's acknowledging that the storytelling engine built around this one
family's conflict has run out of gas.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
The source material itself, the narrative arc, was demanding a
new direction galaxy.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Okay, so the story reached its natural conclusion. That makes
sense internally, But it wasn't just an internal decision, was it.
The second big factor here seems to be fan reaction,
a growing feeling that maybe things were getting a bit stale.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Oh, definitely. Fan fatigue was a major element. Look, the
love for Luke Leah han Anakin, that's undeniable, it's foundational.
But the reaction to the sequel trilogy those last three.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Movies polarized is probably putting it mildly extremely polarized.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yes, they made tons of money, they looked amazing, but
a really significant chunk of the fan base and a
lot of critics too, pointed to one specific thing. They
relied too heavily on nostalgia.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Let's dig into that nostalgia critique a bit. It wasn't
just having familiar characters or ships show up right, It
was deeper.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
It was about recycling core plot mechanics. It made the
new films feel less original, less daring than they could
have been.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Like The Force Awakens, it felt great to be back.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
But then you have Star Killer Base, which is, well,
it's basically another Death Star, isn't it? Planet killing super weapon?
Fans immediately called it out.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
That's start three point out right.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Structurally, it felt very familiar, very safe, like the movie
was hesitant to introduce a genuinely new kind of threat,
so it fell back on the Empire's greatest.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Hits, and that feeling arguably got even stronger with the
Rise of Skywalker, that film made a choice that many
saw as the ultimate example of prioritizing nostalgia over narrative coherence.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
You mean bringing back Emperor Palpatine.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, somehow Palpatine returned.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
That line became infamous, didn't it. His return sort of
out of nowhere, with very little setup in the previous
two films. It was hugely controversial.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Why though, What was the core problem with bringing him back?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Because it wasn't just a plot twist, It was a
strategic decision that for many fundamentally undercut the ending of
the original trilogy, and it can sacrifice exactly Anakin. Skywalker destroys,
the Emperor, saves his son, fulfills the prophecy, dies redeemed,
and then oops, the Emperor is actually fine. It made
Anagin's entire arc, the absolute core of the six George lucasfilms,
(07:04):
feel cheaper, less.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Definitive, and that immediately led people to question what was
the point of this new trilogy. Did it have its
own identity or was it just stuck remixing the past.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
We saw so much of this online our research, digging
through fan forums social media. The sentiment was overwhelming. People
wanted originality.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
What kind of things were they saying?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Comments like love the new characters, but please give us
a story that doesn't feel like a rerun, or can
we please leave Tatooine in the sif behind For a while,
the audience was clearly signaling they still loved Star Wars
the Galaxy, but maybe not the endless Skywalker cycle.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Their appetite for the universe was huge, but their tolerance
for the formula was wearing thin.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Precisely, and you can't ignore the other movies around that
time either. Yeah, think about Solo, a Star Wars story
in twenty eighteen, right the.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Han Solo origin story.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Its performance was underwhelming. Combined with the divided reaction to
the main sequels, it sent a pretty clear market signal.
Maybe audiences weren't clamoring for more backstory on established heroes.
Maybe they wanted something genuinely new.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
New stories, not just new perspectives on old ones.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
The franchise had to prove it was more than just
one family's incredibly dramatic history. It had to prove it
was a universe.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Which brings us perfectly to the second huge factor driving
this shift, the streaming shows. They weren't just ideas. They
were proof.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Absolutely. Lucasfilm didn't just wake up one day and decided
to ditch the Skywalkers in a vacuum. They had these
incredibly successful test cases running on Disney Plus, this story
experiments that proved the franchise could absolutely flourish outside that
core family.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Story validation through television. It really changed everything, didn't it.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
It was the game changer. Disney Plus gave them a
huge platform, huge budgets, and the freedom to try different things,
starting of course with The Mandalorian.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Which just exploded, became a cultural phenomenon almost overnight, instantly,
And obviously a huge part of that was Grogu. You know,
baby Yoda.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
You couldn't escape him. He was everywhere. Massive merchandising, drove subscriptions.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
But beyond the undeniable cuteness factor, what was it about
The Mandalorian itself that made it such powerful strategic evidence
for Lucasfilm.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
It was how different it felt. It deliberately didn't follow
the epic galactic war structure of the movies.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
It felt smaller, scale, more personal.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Exactly. The Mandalorian was basically a Western, a lone gun slinger.
Dean Juren drifting from town to town or planet to planet,
taking jobs, living by a code, with a.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Bit of samurai movie influence thrown into right. The lone
Warrior protecting the child.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Oh absolutely heavy Courosawa vibes, which circles back to George
Lucas's original inspirations. So it felt authentically Star Wars in
its roots.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
But totally fresh in its execution. How did that Western
samurai genre mix actually play out on screen? Beyond just
Mando looking cool in the armor?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Think about the stories they told each week. The main
films are about saving the galaxy, the fate of the Republic,
huge philosophical battles. The Mandalorian episodes were often about surviving
a tough job, dealing with local disputes, navigating the codes
of the Bounty Hunters guild.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Much more grounded, very grounded.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
You had classic Western tropes like standoffs and dusty streets
just happening on alien worlds. The episodic format let them
build Dinjarn's character slowly, focusing on his personal journey separate
from some grand destiny. It was intimate, focusing on the
fringes of the galaxy, not the centers of power.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Okay, but let me push back slightly here, Grogu, he's
the same species as Yoda, the ultimate Jedi Master. Isn't
relying on that connection that built in audience love for
Yoda still a form of leaning on the past. Isn't
that still using familiar iconography.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
That's a fair point, and it's true Grogu provides an
anchor to the familiar, but the key difference is how
he's used. Grogu connects Mando to the wider Force mythology, yes,
but he does it tangentially, meaning meaning his presence doesn't
automatically make Luke Skywalker the main care or forced the
plot to be about Darth theater's legacy. Grogu introduces the
(11:05):
Force the Jedi history, but the story remains fundamentally about
Dinjarin and his choices, his code, his relationship with his child.
It's a fresh perspective, anchored by a familiar element rather
than dictated by it.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Okay, that makes sense. So Mando proved Star Wars could
be a hit Western and then came Andor and Ord,
which basically took the rule book, threw it out, and
proved Star Wars could be something else, entirely a sophisticated,
mature political thriller.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
And or was the ultimate stress test? Wasn't it? Could
Star Wars work without Jedi, without Lightsabers, without any Skywalkers
even being mentioned? Could it thrive purely on character, politics
and espionage?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
And the answer was a resounding yes.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Resounding. It was gritty, it was complex. It treated as
audience like adults had focused entirely on the mundane, messy
reality of how rebellions actually start, the economic pressures, the
political maneuvering, the moral compromise.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
It was revolutionary because it made you look at the
Empire not just as space fascists and cool armor, but
as a chillingly effective bureaucracy. The ISB felt genuinely menacing.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Absolutely explored corporate complicity, the banality of evil within the
imperial system, the actual logistics of funding and organizing resistance.
It showed the sacrifices people made they had nothing to
do with force powers.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
And it got incredible reviews precisely because it was so different,
so layered minimal reliance on the familiar tropes.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
So you have these two massive successes on Disney plus
one proving Star Wars works as a space western adventure
the other, proving it works as a grounded spy thriller.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
They demonstrated that the core themes of Star Wars, hope, resistance, oppression,
finding your place don't actually need a Skywalker at the
center to resonate exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And the ultimate proof of Lucasfilm's confidence in this new
direction what they decided to do.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Next, taking the streaming success and putting it on the
biggest stage, making.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
The Mandalorian and Grogu the next big theatrical l for
twenty twenty six. That is the culmination of this entire
strategic pivot. They're taking a proven streaming hit born outside
the Skywalker saga and making it the flagship cinematic event.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
That signals massive confidence to the market, to the fans,
to everyone. This is the new center of gravity. They're
scaling up a non Skywalker story for the biggest possible audience.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
And crucially, even though it's set in that post Return
of the Jedi era, the New Republic timeline.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Where luke Lea and Han are technically around.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Exactly, but the focus is deliberately kept on Mando and Grogu,
their challenges, their corner of the galaxy. It avoids getting
tangled back up in the core families ongoing drama.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
We should probably also touch on the other Disney Plus
shows briefly, the ones that did focus on legacy character
right like the.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Book of Boba Feed or Obi Wan Kenobi. They definitely
generated buzz initially tapping into that nostalgia.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
But their reception was more mixed, wasn't.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
It It was? And that mixed reception provided its own
kind of data. People were curious to see Obi Wan
again or find out what happened to Bobafette. The shows
sometimes struggled. They felt constrained by having to fit into
existing continuity, sometimes retreading old ground.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
They often felt more like filling in gaps than telling
genuinely new stories fan service.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Maybe that was a common criticism, and that feedback loop
became really clear huge success with brand new concepts like
Mando and andor more lukewarm or divided results when trying
to squeeze more story out of characters whose arcs were
largely complete.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
It really reinforced the idea that the audience was more
excited about truly untethered stories than they were about, say,
finding out what Obi Wan did on Tattooin for twenty years.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
It solidified the path forward expansion, not just continuation of
the old narratives.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Okay, so the Skywalker story was complete. Fans want something new,
and streaming proved new things could work spectacularly. Well, where
does that leave lucasfilm? Strategically?
Speaker 2 (14:55):
It leaves them looking at a much, much bigger.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Canvas, expanding beyond that relatively narrow Skywalker timeline.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Exactly. This is where the potential just explodes. Think about it.
The entire Skywalker saga, all nine.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Films, covers maybe seventy years give or.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Take, right from Anakin's childhood to Ray taking the name.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
But the Star Wars galaxy itself, according to the established lore,
has a history stretching back thousands of years. Moving past
the Skywalkers unlocks all of that unexplored territory, deep past,
distant future, unimaginable creative freedom.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
And they're already signaling moves into that deep past right
with the Dawn of the Jedi project. That sounds about
as far from Luke Skywalker as you can possibly get.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
It's the ultimate leap into mythology this film. James Mangold
is attached.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
To direct Yeah, director of Logan Ford v Ferrari.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Right, it's set get this twenty five thousand years before
New Hope.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Twenty five thousand years That temporal distance is everything. It
guarantees absolute freedom from the established Saga, from Skywalkers, from
the Empire, from everything we know.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
What does Star Wars even look like like twenty five
thousand years ago, The Jedi Order as we know it
probably doesn't exist. Maybe the Sith don't either.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
That's the exciting part. What is the potential there? It's
the potential to tell an origin story, not just of
the Jedi, but maybe of how beings in this galaxy
first started interacting with the Force, so.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Moving beyond the clear light side dark side conflict that
defined the Skywalker era.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Maybe it allows them to explore the Force when it
was perhaps less understood, maybe more primal, more like a
raw force of nature, before it got codified into religious
orders and dogmas. Was it perceived differently? Were the first
Force users explorers shummans?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
It sounds less like a space opera and more like
a mythological epic, like exploring the very foundations of this
universe's belief systems.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It could be almost biblical for the Star Wars galaxy
establishing the Old Testament if you will. Why did people
first tap into this energy? What were the dangers? It
has to be original because none of the familiar stuff,
the politics, the planets, the character archetypes exists yet total clean.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
But they're not only looking way back, are they? They're
also pushing the timeline forward with the New Jedi Order movie.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Correct that one said about fifteen years after the Rise
of Skywalker. Charmine obeyed Shanoi's directing and Daisy Ridley is
confirmed to return as Ray.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Okay, so that one does have a direct link to
the sequels. How does that project avoid falling back into
the Skywalker trap? Especially with Ray, who literally carries the name.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
The key seems to be the narrative focus. It's not
about Ray confronting her past again or dealing with leftover
Palpatine plots. It's about her mission to rebuild the Jedi Order.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
So le's about personal family drama, more about institution building exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
The challenges are likely to be about the practicalities and
philosophies of starting the Jedi anew in a galaxy scarred
by conflict. What should the Order look like? Now? Who
does she recruit? What mistakes from the past should they avoid.
The story will likely center on the new generation She
trains and the different kinds of threats face in this
(18:00):
changed galaxy.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Which suggests the villains probably won't be Syth again. Right
if Palpatine was the end of the Sith, you'd hope not.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
That wider canvas allows for new kinds of antagonists, maybe
threats that are more political, like factions breaking away from
the New Republic, or criminal syndicates rising in the power
of vacuum, or maybe entirely new forced traditions or galactic
powers emerge that have nothing to do with the old
Jedi Sith conflict.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
It really does shift Star Wars from being one long
family story into more of an anthology, a collection of
stories across different eras, different genres, all set in the
same universe.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Which has another huge benefit. It empowers the.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Filmmakers, ah right, getting out from under the shadow of
Skywalker expectations.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Moving beyond that core saga gives creators a level of
freedom that frankly, the directors of this sequel trilogy just
didn't have.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
That weight of expectation must have been immense. The scrutiny
it was.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Crippling think about Ryan Johnson with The Last Jedi. Every
single decision about Luke Skywalker was dissected, debated, and compared
against forty years of history, comics, books, fan theories.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
The online reaction to Luke's portrayal was intense.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Intense is one word for it. Fans felt such ownership
over that character. His arc was seen as sacred. Any deviation,
any attempt to show him as flawed or changed by time,
was met with absolute fury by a vocal segment.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
It makes it almost impossible to take creative risks, doesn't it.
If you're constantly worried about contradicting some obscure piece of
lore from decades ago, you're going to play it safe.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Absolutely. Contrast that with the freedom given to John Favreau
and Dave Filoni on Mandalorian or Tony Gilroy on Andor.
They could experiment with tone, with genre, with moral ambiguity,
precisely because they weren't handling the Crown Jewels directly.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Mando could be a Western Samurai mash up without everyone
freaking out about what it meant for Leah's political career exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Donna the Jedi can be this grand mythological thing, Mando
can be a gritty adventure and or a spy thriller.
This genre diversity is crucial for the franchise's long term health.
He keeps things fresh, draws in different audiences who might
be turned off by just Jedi and Sith stories, and
this whole.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Approach moving beyond the original core. It mirrors what other
big franchises are doing, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
It definitely echoes the Marvel Cinematic Universe model.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
The MCU blueprint. Finish major character arcs like Iron Man
or Captain America, but keep the universe going by smoothly
transitioning the audience to new heroes, new stories, new phases.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
It's the proven path for keeping these massive, interconnected universes
vibrant and profitable. Marvel didn't fold when the original Avenger
stories wrapped up. They pivoted, and Lucasfilm's decision to make
Mandalorian and Grogu the next movie feels exactly like that
kind of strategic handoff.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Leverage the popular new characters to guide the audience into
the post Skywalker era, ensure the franchise feels like it's
constantly evolving, constantly relevant.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Guarantees a kind of perpetual motion for the storytelling machine.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Okay, strategically it all adds up narrative closure, fan demand,
streaming success, creative freedom. But we have to talk about
the risks the trade offs moving away from the Skywalkers,
the very heart of Star Wars for so long. That's
a big gamble, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
It's absolutely a gamble. That's the tightrope they have to walk,
innovate and expand, but don't lose the soul of Star
Wars in the process.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
What's the biggest risk fan alienation?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
That has to be number one for generations Star Wars
was Luke Leah Hahn Vader Anakin, their struggles, their relationships
were the emotional anchor, taking them out of the center. Well,
you risk leaving behind fans who are deeply personally invested
in that specific story if the.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
New stuff doesn't connect emotionally in the same way, if
it feels too.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Detached, you could see a backlash. We already saw how
passionate and frankly volatile the fan base can be with
the sequels. If these new nine Skywalker projects misfire, if
they fail to capture that essential Star Wars magic, whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
That is, whatever that hard to define essences right.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
If they failed to deliver that, the negative reaction could
be significant, maybe even jeopardizing the whole strategy.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
It's a real challenge because the Skywalker story provided instant stakes.
When the fate of the Galaxy rests on Luke facing
his father, you get it immediately exactly.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
The emotional buy in is built in when the story
centers on a character you just met, or explores a
conflict far removed from that core drama, The filmmakers have
to work harder to forge that connection to make the
audience care just as much.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
So. How do they manage that? How does lucasfilm keep
the star Wars feel without relying on the Skywalkers themselves?
How do they make sure it all still feels connected.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
It's about maintaining the core ingredients while changing the recipe.
The iconography is key, Lightsabers, Starships, the Force itself, the
themes of hope versus tyranny. Those aren't going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
The visual language remains exactly.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
But more than that, it's about using familiar archetypes in
new context. Good storytelling relies on resonant character types and structures.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Can you give an example from say the Mandalorian again,
how does it use archetypes to feel like Star Wars?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Mandalorian is brilliant at this. Dinjarren is the classic lone
gunslinger or Ronan archetype, the warrior with a code, operating
outside the law, but with his own morality. Grogu taps
into the mysterious child or wise mentor archetype connecting to Yoda.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
The Found Family trope too huge.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
The Found Family protecting the innocent against overwhelming odds. These
are timeless story structures that resonate deeply. Andalorian uses these
classic building blocks, which feel inherently Star Wars e because
Lucas used them too, but applies them to new characters
in a different setting. It makes the galaxy feel consistent,
emotionally familiar, even when the faces are new.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And maybe moving away from the specific Skywalker conflict allows
them to explore themes that feel more relevant.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Now that's potentially the biggest reward relevance. Jial Saga was
very much about legacy, destiny, confronting the sins of the father.
Powerful themes, but maybe less central to contemporary concerns.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
What kinds of themes are emerging in the new stuff,
Like Mando or.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
And or, we're seeing more focus on community, on found
family rather than blood ties, on choosing your identity versus
inheriting it, on the complexities of resistance and systemic oppression
from the ground up. These feel very resonant with modern audiences, so.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
By stepping away from that specific son versus father, dynamic,
Star Wars can tackle things like rebuilding society, navigating bureaucracy,
finding belonging through fresh eyes.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Exactly, and that ability to evolve is what guarantees the
franchise's long term health. By becoming this broader anthology, this
tapestry of stories across time and genre, lucasfilm matures Star
Wars days vibrant, adaptable, and continuously interesting in a very
crowded media.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
World, it's like they're proving George Luck has built something
even bigger than he might have realized, a universe robust
enough to contain endless stories, not just one family's chronicle.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
This shift isn't really a rejection of the Skywalker legacy
at all. It's more like an acknowledgment of just how
vast and rich the galaxy the inhabit truly is. There's
just so much.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
More to explore and The Mendelaurian Grogofilm feels like the
perfect bridge into that wider exploration.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
It's a vital first step for the cinematic side. It
blends the character intimacy that works so well on streaming
with the big screen spectacle people expect from a Star
Wars movie. It's designed to ease the audience into this new,
broader era.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
And then beyond that you have these other projects, the
ancient history of Dawna, the Jedi, the future rebuilding in
new Jedi order, promising to maybe recapture that sense of
pure wonder and discovery that the original trilogy had, but
in totally new ways.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
The Skywalker saga gaves incredible lessons about destiny, family, redemption,
the struggle between light and dark. That story, that specific
conflict has been told. It's complete.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
So as Star Wars turns its gaze from that resolve
pass towards this huge, wide open future, it leaves us
with a really interesting final thought, doesn't it. If those
first fifty years were fundamentally about the rise, fall, and
redemption tied to one family, what's the big universal theme,
the core philosophical struggle that will define the next fifty years?
As this galaxy explores its oldest myth, its current struggles,
(26:20):
its uncharted future, what deep truth about ourselves will Star
Wars explore next?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
That's the multi billion credit question.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Isn't it something for you to definitely ponder as you
wait for that next jump to hyperspace
For gosh, almost fifty years now and you said Star
Wars really one family sprang to mind, didn't it.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oh? Absolutely, the Skywalkers.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Anakin, Luke Lea, their whole story across nine huge films.
They were, I mean, they were the absolute heart of
that galaxy.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
The singular focus, really.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Going all the way back to you know, Luke looking
out at those twin sons on Tattooing and a New
Hope nineteen seventy seven.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Wow, it really is the definition of a generational saga,
isn't it. Those nine mainline movies what we all call
the Skywalker saga now, right from Phantom Menace right up
to the Rise of Skywalker. Yeah, it tracked their wins
their losses there well, their epic struggles finding that balance
between light and dark. The whole thing, the whole Star
Wars building, rested on them.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
But things have changed, I mean really changed. Lucasfilm's next movie,
the one hitting theaters in twenty twenty six, it's not
about a Skywalker. It's the Mandalorian and gro Goo. And
this feels like more than just you know, a fun
side question.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Oh, it's definitely strategic.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
This feels like a a deliberate pivot away from the
family that basically started it all.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
It's more than just turning a page, like you said,
It's like closing the entire first volume, a foundational chapter.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Okay, So that's what we're diving into today, right. We
want to analyze this strategic shift, look at the key
things pushing it.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Exactly, things like well, the story just being finished, narrative closure,
also what the fans were saying, fan demand, and crucially
those experiments on streaming that really took.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Off, all leading Lucasfilm to prioritize stories outside the Skywalker line,
like this Mando movie over the family drama that defines
Star Wars for half a century.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So the big question for us and for you listening
is why now?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, why make this move now? And what does it
really mean for the future of that galaxy far far away?
Why should you care about this big strategic shuffle.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Okay, let's unpack it. Reason number one seems pretty clear.
The story itself, the narrative imperative after nine films, was
a Skywalker story just done? Had it reached its natural end?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
From a storytelling perspective, Yeah, I think you have to
say it had structurally thematically, Yeah, the narrative really demanded closure.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
It's such a long arc when you think about it,
it's huge.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
It traces Anakin Skywalker's rise, his tragic fall into becoming
Darth Vader, and then critically his redemption and then all
the fallout for his kids, his descendants.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
The redemption part feels key there Anakin's choice, right that
moment in Return of the Jedi. Once that's resolved and
the consequences play out, where else is there to go
with that.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Core story exactly? Functionally, that core conflict is complete, and
the sequel trilogy episodes seven, eight, and nine, their job
was basically to put the final punctuation mark on it all.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Did they succeed? That's maybe another conversation.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Well, they certainly aim for closure. By the end of
the Rise of Skywalker. You definitely get some strong symbolic moments. Rady,
you know, the main character of that trilogy. Yeah, she
specifically rejects her own bloodline wing. She's a Palpatine, the
ultimate evil lineage, and she chooses instead to adopt the
Skywalker name.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
That moment taking the name that feels really significant, doesn't it.
It's like saying the legacy goes on, but the conflict
associated with that name is over.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Precisely, she's carrying the torch, the positive legacy, not the
burden of the family's internal struggles, and crucially, the big one,
the underlying fight of the whole saga Jedi versus Sith,
that'supposed to be over too. Palpatine is defeated seemingly for
good this time.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Okay, but wait, If the Sith are defeated once and
for all, doesn't that create a huge strategic problem for
continuing the Skywalker story If you keep focusing on them,
don't you risk either having to invent some new ultimate
evil which feels cheap.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Or bring back the old ultimate evil, which also feels cheap.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Exactly, you risk making the previous victories feel i don't know, temporary,
less meaningful.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
That's the absolute core risk redundancy. If you try to
shoehorn new galaxy altering stakes into that Skywalker framework after
its result, you start watering down the emotional impact of
those original nine films Right the second you bring Palpatine
back like they did, well, you arguably lessen the weight
of Anakin sacrifice back in episode six. It just starts
to feel confrived, like the story spinning its wheels because
(04:16):
it has to involve these specific.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Characters and Lucasfilm leadership they seem to get this. There
was that quote from Kathleen Kennedy, the president of Lucasfilm,
back in twenty twenty three that felt like the official
sign off on moving on.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Oh, that quote was huge. It basically laid out the
new doctrine. She said very clearly, the Skywalker saga is done,
full stop.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
But she didn't stop there, did she.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
No. She immediately followed up with, but the galaxy is vast,
and we're excited to explore new corners of it. That's
not just pr speak. That's a massive statement of intent.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
It's acknowledging that the storytelling engine built around this one
family's conflict has run out of gas.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
The source material itself, the narrative arc, was demanding a
new direction galaxy.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Okay, so the story reached its natural conclusion. That makes
sense internally, But it wasn't just an internal decision, was it.
The second big factor here seems to be fan reaction,
a growing feeling that maybe things were getting a bit stale.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Oh, definitely. Fan fatigue was a major element. Look, the
love for Luke Leah han Anakin, that's undeniable, it's foundational.
But the reaction to the sequel trilogy those last three.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Movies polarized is probably putting it mildly extremely polarized.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yes, they made tons of money, they looked amazing, but
a really significant chunk of the fan base and a
lot of critics too, pointed to one specific thing. They
relied too heavily on nostalgia.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Let's dig into that nostalgia critique a bit. It wasn't
just having familiar characters or ships show up right, It
was deeper.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
It was about recycling core plot mechanics. It made the
new films feel less original, less daring than they could
have been.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Like The Force Awakens, it felt great to be back.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
But then you have Star Killer Base, which is, well,
it's basically another Death Star, isn't it? Planet killing super weapon?
Fans immediately called it out.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
That's start three point out right.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Structurally, it felt very familiar, very safe, like the movie
was hesitant to introduce a genuinely new kind of threat,
so it fell back on the Empire's greatest.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Hits, and that feeling arguably got even stronger with the
Rise of Skywalker, that film made a choice that many
saw as the ultimate example of prioritizing nostalgia over narrative coherence.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
You mean bringing back Emperor Palpatine.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, somehow Palpatine returned.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
That line became infamous, didn't it. His return sort of
out of nowhere, with very little setup in the previous
two films. It was hugely controversial.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Why though, What was the core problem with bringing him back?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Because it wasn't just a plot twist, It was a
strategic decision that for many fundamentally undercut the ending of
the original trilogy, and it can sacrifice exactly Anakin. Skywalker destroys,
the Emperor, saves his son, fulfills the prophecy, dies redeemed,
and then oops, the Emperor is actually fine. It made
Anagin's entire arc, the absolute core of the six George lucasfilms,
(07:04):
feel cheaper, less.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Definitive, and that immediately led people to question what was
the point of this new trilogy. Did it have its
own identity or was it just stuck remixing the past.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
We saw so much of this online our research, digging
through fan forums social media. The sentiment was overwhelming. People
wanted originality.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
What kind of things were they saying?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Comments like love the new characters, but please give us
a story that doesn't feel like a rerun, or can
we please leave Tatooine in the sif behind For a while,
the audience was clearly signaling they still loved Star Wars
the Galaxy, but maybe not the endless Skywalker cycle.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Their appetite for the universe was huge, but their tolerance
for the formula was wearing thin.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Precisely, and you can't ignore the other movies around that
time either. Yeah, think about Solo, a Star Wars story
in twenty eighteen, right the.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Han Solo origin story.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Its performance was underwhelming. Combined with the divided reaction to
the main sequels, it sent a pretty clear market signal.
Maybe audiences weren't clamoring for more backstory on established heroes.
Maybe they wanted something genuinely new.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
New stories, not just new perspectives on old ones.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
The franchise had to prove it was more than just
one family's incredibly dramatic history. It had to prove it
was a universe.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Which brings us perfectly to the second huge factor driving
this shift, the streaming shows. They weren't just ideas. They
were proof.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Absolutely. Lucasfilm didn't just wake up one day and decided
to ditch the Skywalkers in a vacuum. They had these
incredibly successful test cases running on Disney Plus, this story
experiments that proved the franchise could absolutely flourish outside that
core family.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Story validation through television. It really changed everything, didn't it.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
It was the game changer. Disney Plus gave them a
huge platform, huge budgets, and the freedom to try different things,
starting of course with The Mandalorian.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Which just exploded, became a cultural phenomenon almost overnight, instantly,
And obviously a huge part of that was Grogu. You know,
baby Yoda.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
You couldn't escape him. He was everywhere. Massive merchandising, drove subscriptions.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
But beyond the undeniable cuteness factor, what was it about
The Mandalorian itself that made it such powerful strategic evidence
for Lucasfilm.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
It was how different it felt. It deliberately didn't follow
the epic galactic war structure of the movies.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
It felt smaller, scale, more personal.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Exactly. The Mandalorian was basically a Western, a lone gun slinger.
Dean Juren drifting from town to town or planet to planet,
taking jobs, living by a code, with a.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Bit of samurai movie influence thrown into right. The lone
Warrior protecting the child.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Oh absolutely heavy Courosawa vibes, which circles back to George
Lucas's original inspirations. So it felt authentically Star Wars in
its roots.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
But totally fresh in its execution. How did that Western
samurai genre mix actually play out on screen? Beyond just
Mando looking cool in the armor?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Think about the stories they told each week. The main
films are about saving the galaxy, the fate of the Republic,
huge philosophical battles. The Mandalorian episodes were often about surviving
a tough job, dealing with local disputes, navigating the codes
of the Bounty Hunters guild.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Much more grounded, very grounded.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
You had classic Western tropes like standoffs and dusty streets
just happening on alien worlds. The episodic format let them
build Dinjarn's character slowly, focusing on his personal journey separate
from some grand destiny. It was intimate, focusing on the
fringes of the galaxy, not the centers of power.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Okay, but let me push back slightly here, Grogu, he's
the same species as Yoda, the ultimate Jedi Master. Isn't
relying on that connection that built in audience love for
Yoda still a form of leaning on the past. Isn't
that still using familiar iconography.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
That's a fair point, and it's true Grogu provides an
anchor to the familiar, but the key difference is how
he's used. Grogu connects Mando to the wider Force mythology, yes,
but he does it tangentially, meaning meaning his presence doesn't
automatically make Luke Skywalker the main care or forced the
plot to be about Darth theater's legacy. Grogu introduces the
(11:05):
Force the Jedi history, but the story remains fundamentally about
Dinjarin and his choices, his code, his relationship with his child.
It's a fresh perspective, anchored by a familiar element rather
than dictated by it.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Okay, that makes sense. So Mando proved Star Wars could
be a hit Western and then came Andor and Ord,
which basically took the rule book, threw it out, and
proved Star Wars could be something else, entirely a sophisticated,
mature political thriller.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
And or was the ultimate stress test? Wasn't it? Could
Star Wars work without Jedi, without Lightsabers, without any Skywalkers
even being mentioned? Could it thrive purely on character, politics
and espionage?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
And the answer was a resounding yes.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Resounding. It was gritty, it was complex. It treated as
audience like adults had focused entirely on the mundane, messy
reality of how rebellions actually start, the economic pressures, the
political maneuvering, the moral compromise.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
It was revolutionary because it made you look at the
Empire not just as space fascists and cool armor, but
as a chillingly effective bureaucracy. The ISB felt genuinely menacing.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Absolutely explored corporate complicity, the banality of evil within the
imperial system, the actual logistics of funding and organizing resistance.
It showed the sacrifices people made they had nothing to
do with force powers.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
And it got incredible reviews precisely because it was so different,
so layered minimal reliance on the familiar tropes.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
So you have these two massive successes on Disney plus
one proving Star Wars works as a space western adventure
the other, proving it works as a grounded spy thriller.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
They demonstrated that the core themes of Star Wars, hope, resistance, oppression,
finding your place don't actually need a Skywalker at the
center to resonate exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And the ultimate proof of Lucasfilm's confidence in this new
direction what they decided to do.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Next, taking the streaming success and putting it on the
biggest stage, making.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
The Mandalorian and Grogu the next big theatrical l for
twenty twenty six. That is the culmination of this entire
strategic pivot. They're taking a proven streaming hit born outside
the Skywalker saga and making it the flagship cinematic event.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
That signals massive confidence to the market, to the fans,
to everyone. This is the new center of gravity. They're
scaling up a non Skywalker story for the biggest possible audience.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
And crucially, even though it's set in that post Return
of the Jedi era, the New Republic timeline.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Where luke Lea and Han are technically around.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Exactly, but the focus is deliberately kept on Mando and Grogu,
their challenges, their corner of the galaxy. It avoids getting
tangled back up in the core families ongoing drama.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
We should probably also touch on the other Disney Plus
shows briefly, the ones that did focus on legacy character
right like the.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Book of Boba Feed or Obi Wan Kenobi. They definitely
generated buzz initially tapping into that nostalgia.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
But their reception was more mixed, wasn't.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
It It was? And that mixed reception provided its own
kind of data. People were curious to see Obi Wan
again or find out what happened to Bobafette. The shows
sometimes struggled. They felt constrained by having to fit into
existing continuity, sometimes retreading old ground.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
They often felt more like filling in gaps than telling
genuinely new stories fan service.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Maybe that was a common criticism, and that feedback loop
became really clear huge success with brand new concepts like
Mando and andor more lukewarm or divided results when trying
to squeeze more story out of characters whose arcs were
largely complete.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
It really reinforced the idea that the audience was more
excited about truly untethered stories than they were about, say,
finding out what Obi Wan did on Tattooin for twenty years.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
It solidified the path forward expansion, not just continuation of
the old narratives.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Okay, so the Skywalker story was complete. Fans want something new,
and streaming proved new things could work spectacularly. Well, where
does that leave lucasfilm? Strategically?
Speaker 2 (14:55):
It leaves them looking at a much, much bigger.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Canvas, expanding beyond that relatively narrow Skywalker timeline.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Exactly. This is where the potential just explodes. Think about it.
The entire Skywalker saga, all nine.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Films, covers maybe seventy years give or.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Take, right from Anakin's childhood to Ray taking the name.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
But the Star Wars galaxy itself, according to the established lore,
has a history stretching back thousands of years. Moving past
the Skywalkers unlocks all of that unexplored territory, deep past,
distant future, unimaginable creative freedom.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
And they're already signaling moves into that deep past right
with the Dawn of the Jedi project. That sounds about
as far from Luke Skywalker as you can possibly get.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
It's the ultimate leap into mythology this film. James Mangold
is attached.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
To direct Yeah, director of Logan Ford v Ferrari.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Right, it's set get this twenty five thousand years before
New Hope.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Twenty five thousand years That temporal distance is everything. It
guarantees absolute freedom from the established Saga, from Skywalkers, from
the Empire, from everything we know.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
What does Star Wars even look like like twenty five
thousand years ago, The Jedi Order as we know it
probably doesn't exist. Maybe the Sith don't either.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
That's the exciting part. What is the potential there? It's
the potential to tell an origin story, not just of
the Jedi, but maybe of how beings in this galaxy
first started interacting with the Force, so.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Moving beyond the clear light side dark side conflict that
defined the Skywalker era.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Maybe it allows them to explore the Force when it
was perhaps less understood, maybe more primal, more like a
raw force of nature, before it got codified into religious
orders and dogmas. Was it perceived differently? Were the first
Force users explorers shummans?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
It sounds less like a space opera and more like
a mythological epic, like exploring the very foundations of this
universe's belief systems.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It could be almost biblical for the Star Wars galaxy
establishing the Old Testament if you will. Why did people
first tap into this energy? What were the dangers? It
has to be original because none of the familiar stuff,
the politics, the planets, the character archetypes exists yet total clean.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
But they're not only looking way back, are they? They're
also pushing the timeline forward with the New Jedi Order movie.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Correct that one said about fifteen years after the Rise
of Skywalker. Charmine obeyed Shanoi's directing and Daisy Ridley is
confirmed to return as Ray.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Okay, so that one does have a direct link to
the sequels. How does that project avoid falling back into
the Skywalker trap? Especially with Ray, who literally carries the name.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
The key seems to be the narrative focus. It's not
about Ray confronting her past again or dealing with leftover
Palpatine plots. It's about her mission to rebuild the Jedi Order.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
So le's about personal family drama, more about institution building exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
The challenges are likely to be about the practicalities and
philosophies of starting the Jedi anew in a galaxy scarred
by conflict. What should the Order look like? Now? Who
does she recruit? What mistakes from the past should they avoid.
The story will likely center on the new generation She
trains and the different kinds of threats face in this
(18:00):
changed galaxy.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Which suggests the villains probably won't be Syth again. Right
if Palpatine was the end of the Sith, you'd hope not.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
That wider canvas allows for new kinds of antagonists, maybe
threats that are more political, like factions breaking away from
the New Republic, or criminal syndicates rising in the power
of vacuum, or maybe entirely new forced traditions or galactic
powers emerge that have nothing to do with the old
Jedi Sith conflict.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
It really does shift Star Wars from being one long
family story into more of an anthology, a collection of
stories across different eras, different genres, all set in the
same universe.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Which has another huge benefit. It empowers the.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Filmmakers, ah right, getting out from under the shadow of
Skywalker expectations.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Moving beyond that core saga gives creators a level of
freedom that frankly, the directors of this sequel trilogy just
didn't have.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
That weight of expectation must have been immense. The scrutiny
it was.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Crippling think about Ryan Johnson with The Last Jedi. Every
single decision about Luke Skywalker was dissected, debated, and compared
against forty years of history, comics, books, fan theories.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
The online reaction to Luke's portrayal was intense.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Intense is one word for it. Fans felt such ownership
over that character. His arc was seen as sacred. Any deviation,
any attempt to show him as flawed or changed by time,
was met with absolute fury by a vocal segment.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
It makes it almost impossible to take creative risks, doesn't it.
If you're constantly worried about contradicting some obscure piece of
lore from decades ago, you're going to play it safe.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Absolutely. Contrast that with the freedom given to John Favreau
and Dave Filoni on Mandalorian or Tony Gilroy on Andor.
They could experiment with tone, with genre, with moral ambiguity,
precisely because they weren't handling the Crown Jewels directly.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Mando could be a Western Samurai mash up without everyone
freaking out about what it meant for Leah's political career exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Donna the Jedi can be this grand mythological thing, Mando
can be a gritty adventure and or a spy thriller.
This genre diversity is crucial for the franchise's long term health.
He keeps things fresh, draws in different audiences who might
be turned off by just Jedi and Sith stories, and
this whole.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Approach moving beyond the original core. It mirrors what other
big franchises are doing, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
It definitely echoes the Marvel Cinematic Universe model.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
The MCU blueprint. Finish major character arcs like Iron Man
or Captain America, but keep the universe going by smoothly
transitioning the audience to new heroes, new stories, new phases.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
It's the proven path for keeping these massive, interconnected universes
vibrant and profitable. Marvel didn't fold when the original Avenger
stories wrapped up. They pivoted, and Lucasfilm's decision to make
Mandalorian and Grogu the next movie feels exactly like that
kind of strategic handoff.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Leverage the popular new characters to guide the audience into
the post Skywalker era, ensure the franchise feels like it's
constantly evolving, constantly relevant.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Guarantees a kind of perpetual motion for the storytelling machine.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Okay, strategically it all adds up narrative closure, fan demand,
streaming success, creative freedom. But we have to talk about
the risks the trade offs moving away from the Skywalkers,
the very heart of Star Wars for so long. That's
a big gamble, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
It's absolutely a gamble. That's the tightrope they have to walk,
innovate and expand, but don't lose the soul of Star
Wars in the process.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
What's the biggest risk fan alienation?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
That has to be number one for generations Star Wars
was Luke Leah Hahn Vader Anakin, their struggles, their relationships
were the emotional anchor, taking them out of the center. Well,
you risk leaving behind fans who are deeply personally invested
in that specific story if the.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
New stuff doesn't connect emotionally in the same way, if
it feels too.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Detached, you could see a backlash. We already saw how
passionate and frankly volatile the fan base can be with
the sequels. If these new nine Skywalker projects misfire, if
they fail to capture that essential Star Wars magic, whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
That is, whatever that hard to define essences right.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
If they failed to deliver that, the negative reaction could
be significant, maybe even jeopardizing the whole strategy.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
It's a real challenge because the Skywalker story provided instant stakes.
When the fate of the Galaxy rests on Luke facing
his father, you get it immediately exactly.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
The emotional buy in is built in when the story
centers on a character you just met, or explores a
conflict far removed from that core drama, The filmmakers have
to work harder to forge that connection to make the
audience care just as much.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
So. How do they manage that? How does lucasfilm keep
the star Wars feel without relying on the Skywalkers themselves?
How do they make sure it all still feels connected.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
It's about maintaining the core ingredients while changing the recipe.
The iconography is key, Lightsabers, Starships, the Force itself, the
themes of hope versus tyranny. Those aren't going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
The visual language remains exactly.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
But more than that, it's about using familiar archetypes in
new context. Good storytelling relies on resonant character types and structures.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Can you give an example from say the Mandalorian again,
how does it use archetypes to feel like Star Wars?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Mandalorian is brilliant at this. Dinjarren is the classic lone
gunslinger or Ronan archetype, the warrior with a code, operating
outside the law, but with his own morality. Grogu taps
into the mysterious child or wise mentor archetype connecting to Yoda.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
The Found Family trope too huge.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
The Found Family protecting the innocent against overwhelming odds. These
are timeless story structures that resonate deeply. Andalorian uses these
classic building blocks, which feel inherently Star Wars e because
Lucas used them too, but applies them to new characters
in a different setting. It makes the galaxy feel consistent,
emotionally familiar, even when the faces are new.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And maybe moving away from the specific Skywalker conflict allows
them to explore themes that feel more relevant.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Now that's potentially the biggest reward relevance. Jial Saga was
very much about legacy, destiny, confronting the sins of the father.
Powerful themes, but maybe less central to contemporary concerns.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
What kinds of themes are emerging in the new stuff,
Like Mando or.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
And or, we're seeing more focus on community, on found
family rather than blood ties, on choosing your identity versus
inheriting it, on the complexities of resistance and systemic oppression
from the ground up. These feel very resonant with modern audiences, so.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
By stepping away from that specific son versus father, dynamic,
Star Wars can tackle things like rebuilding society, navigating bureaucracy,
finding belonging through fresh eyes.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Exactly, and that ability to evolve is what guarantees the
franchise's long term health. By becoming this broader anthology, this
tapestry of stories across time and genre, lucasfilm matures Star
Wars days vibrant, adaptable, and continuously interesting in a very
crowded media.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
World, it's like they're proving George Luck has built something
even bigger than he might have realized, a universe robust
enough to contain endless stories, not just one family's chronicle.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
This shift isn't really a rejection of the Skywalker legacy
at all. It's more like an acknowledgment of just how
vast and rich the galaxy the inhabit truly is. There's
just so much.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
More to explore and The Mendelaurian Grogofilm feels like the
perfect bridge into that wider exploration.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
It's a vital first step for the cinematic side. It
blends the character intimacy that works so well on streaming
with the big screen spectacle people expect from a Star
Wars movie. It's designed to ease the audience into this new,
broader era.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
And then beyond that you have these other projects, the
ancient history of Dawna, the Jedi, the future rebuilding in
new Jedi order, promising to maybe recapture that sense of
pure wonder and discovery that the original trilogy had, but
in totally new ways.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
The Skywalker saga gaves incredible lessons about destiny, family, redemption,
the struggle between light and dark. That story, that specific
conflict has been told. It's complete.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
So as Star Wars turns its gaze from that resolve
pass towards this huge, wide open future, it leaves us
with a really interesting final thought, doesn't it. If those
first fifty years were fundamentally about the rise, fall, and
redemption tied to one family, what's the big universal theme,
the core philosophical struggle that will define the next fifty years?
As this galaxy explores its oldest myth, its current struggles,
(26:20):
its uncharted future, what deep truth about ourselves will Star
Wars explore next?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
That's the multi billion credit question.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Isn't it something for you to definitely ponder as you
wait for that next jump to hyperspace
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