February 28, 2024 • 56 mins
Join us this week as we sit down with Adam Erstelle to dive into his journey from web developer to Salesforce Technical Architect. From his early days in telecommunications to his emergence as a Dreamforce speaker on using code and APEX to make marketers work easier, Adam's story is one you won't want to miss. This episode is your guide through the adventures of a neighbor's broken script that launched Adam into a thriving career, alongside my own evolution from seeing code as a barrier to wielding it as a tool for innovation.
We share practical tips and examples, equipping you with the knowledge to duve into the world of App Development and break into the Salesforce AppExchange. This episode isn't just about app development; it's an exploration of how to build trust and functionality into every aspect of your Salesforce application. Join in as we contemplate the escalating role of AI in the developer space, affirming that a human touch remains irreplaceable. This episode is packed with compelling stories, practical advice, and a celebration of the Salesforce community's role in affirming the impact of our digital creations.
Adam was born in Winnipeg, Canada, and he moved to Georgia in 2013 looking for warmer weather and new career opportunities. He is an experienced Technical Leader with a demonstrated history of working in the Salesforce ecosystem across multiple industries
He has 20 years of software and development team leadership experience and a knack for diving into new technologies and learning them quickly. Skilled in Apex, Java, Spring MVC, & Data, REST, Mobile Applications, and DevOps tools. Adam embodies strong engineering knowledge with a history of helping teams modernize their development practices and methodologies.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:16):
Good morning and good afternoon.
My name is Jacob Catalano andwelcome to another episode of
Admins of Tomorrow.
It has been a wonderful monthof February and we are now two
full months into 2024.
I said it at the end ofJanuary's episode and it brings
even more true now, but this hasbeen such a whirlwind year and
I'm so very thankful to everyonewho's been able to support and
(00:39):
watch the show and honestly beenable to help this podcast grow
into what it is today.
With that said, there's so muchto look forward to in March,
like Trailblazer DX, which isgoing to take place next week on
March 6th and 7th in SanFrancisco.
Now I call this conference outbecause it has become a go-to
event for Salesforce developers,admins and architects alike.
(01:02):
So what better way to lead intoa conference for developers
than to meet with this week'sguest?
Today we're going to sit downwith Adam Erstelle, a Salesforce
app developer and technicalarchitect, who has been someone
I've had the pleasure of workingalongside for many years now.
Now, before working with Adam,the idea of adding anything code
related to what I was workingon in Salesforce felt horrible.
(01:25):
It was not anything I wanted toeven touch with a 10-foot pole,
but over time I had theopportunity to learn from Adam
that API, apex, sql reallyanything you can do with code in
Salesforce wasn't a hindrance.
Rather, it was another set oftools that I could use, and my
team could use, to grow anddevelop and make our lives so
(01:48):
much easier.
So, with that said, I can'twait for everyone to hear Adam's
story and learn how new adminscan get started and find their
way in app development inSalesforce.
So, without further ado, let'smeet Adam.
Adam Erstelle is a seniortechnical architect and seasoned
technology leader with a proventrack record of delivering
complex, innovative solutionsand building successful
(02:10):
engineering teams.
Adam has over 20 years ofsoftware and development team
leadership experience and aknack for diving into new
technologies and learning themquickly.
Skilled in Apex, java, spring,mvc and data rest mobile
applications, adam and bodystrong engineering knowledge
with a history of helping teamsmodernize their development
(02:31):
practices and methodologies.
So let's not waste any moretime and dive on in.
So thank you so much, adam.
Really appreciate you fortaking the time to jump in and
be on podcast with us today.
So, before we dive into thekind of technical which you and
(02:52):
I love, I'd love if you couldjust give a quick introduction
of yourself and kind of give usa story of how you got into the
ecosystem.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, so my background.
I guess my story started geezabout 22 years ago when I was in
a little community college justlearning computer programming.
Once I got out I got into thetelecommunications space.
I was working for an internetservice provider and I excelled
(03:25):
at my job to the point where Iwould get thrown on a project, I
would deliver it ridiculouslyearly and then my boss was just
telling me to take a few daysoff because he didn't know what
to do with me.
It also got to the point whereI would only work like half an
hour a day and like there wasliterally no other work for me
to do, which, you know, on thesurface sounds kind of cool but
(03:50):
say that sounds like the dream.
And, you know, at the verybeginning it kind of was because
I was able to, you know, diginto forums I learned a whole
bunch about, like home theaterand home improvements and, you
know, just trying to fill thetime to, well, frankly, stay
awake.
And once that got tired and,you know, over with I just
(04:11):
literally started napping at mydesk.
I would have a sign that sayswake me for work.
And, you know, even after awhile, that was just ridiculous.
So I was able to get out afterabout like four and a half years
of four years I don't knowsomething like that Wow.
And I joined this little tinystartup that was looking to get
(04:31):
into the digital signage spacefor for hospitals, right?
So nowadays you go to ahospital, there's TVs that have
information, a couple ads, right?
The startup was one of the onesthat we're trying to pioneer
that After a year the grantmoney ran out and I actually
went back to thattelecommunications company and I
(04:55):
think that's really where mydevelopment journey like really
started, started to take off.
I was able to learn a wholebunch about web development.
I was building web apps thatwould actually run on the TV.
So, like that was really,really cool.
I started to get into some usergroups up there, you know, kind
of getting out in the communitya little bit.
(05:17):
And then I moved to the States,basically to, you know, try to
start something up.
So that was my second forayinto, like the startup world.
It kind of flopped.
And then, you know, I startedworking for a telecommunications
company down here.
I guess close to the end ofthat, you know, five year stint
(05:38):
Again, I started running into a.
I ran into a neighbor at thetime who was starting a company
that was doing consulting forpart up.
He had basically copied ascript off the internet, he
broke it and you know, as onedoes, absolutely.
(05:59):
But he didn't know how to fix it.
So he came over.
You know, we had a couple beers.
I put the semi colon in theright spot and it started
working Right, so he was able todelight the client and he's
like hey, you want to keep doingthis stuff, and that's
basically like literally how Igot into the Salesforce
ecosystem.
Prior to that, I just I knew itas a logo, I've seen it in the
(06:22):
news a few times, but I didn'tknow what Salesforce was Right.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
So I don't want to say I'm an accidental developer,
right, but it was somethingthat was unexpected, that is
interesting that you, like yousaid it's not accidental but to
an extent, what an amazinglookout of your neighbor is
starting this company in theecosystem and you just happened
(06:46):
to find the right semi colon atthe right time.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, and you know a lot of the other people who've
participated in this podcast.
They tell similar uniquestories, right, and almost
everyone that I run into in theecosystem they'll have like
really unique and interestingstories.
You know, no one goes tocollege to be in the Salesforce
ecosystem Like what the hell?
Right?
But you know we're all here nowand you know it's awesome that
(07:13):
we're able to share theseexperiences.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
It is interesting because, you're right, we all
have very similar stories, inthat the pieces just kind of
fell right into place.
It's fun too to kind of thinkthrough what that next
generation of admin story isgoing to be like.
Was it just like you and thatthey were a developer?
They were working half an houra day and just kind of not
(07:37):
feeling fully fulfilled and theykind of looked into that space
of it all.
I'm curious for you being moreon the developer side, what was
that transition like from moreagain more traditional coding, I
assume actually I'm not goingto assume what language you were
(07:58):
coding in, but realistically itwas not some of the stuff you
see more regularly on Salesforce.
I assume it was really easy tokind of figure things out on the
Salesforce back end.
So kind of I'd love to hearyour side of it, though, of how
difficult was it to kind ofshift mental gears from your day
to day coding for kind of webapps and development to
(08:22):
Salesforce developing?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, I guess in a way I kind of lucked out because
throughout my career I've beenprimarily focused on building
integrations right.
So one system talking toanother that happens a lot in
the telecommunications industry.
But it just happens a lotbecause there's so many business
apps out there and they need totalk to each other in order for
(08:45):
us to actually realize businessvalue.
So when I got into theSalesforce ecosystem and started
building things a little bitmore elaborate than placing a
semicolon and a text file right,I found that I was able to lean
on all of the other developmentskills I had built over 15
years.
(09:06):
And that's not unique to me,right?
Anyone who's moving jobs,moving careers, you always try
to lean on the skills you'vealready built to help make the
switch.
Yeah, right Now, specificallyfor Salesforce's development
language, which is called Apex.
Some of the people here mighthave heard of that.
(09:26):
It was based on the Javadevelopment language that quite
a while ago.
So the Java language has movedon and evolved quite a bit.
Apex kind of hasn't.
But if you know Java, if youknow C sharp or those types of
languages, apex is a fairly easyswitch.
(09:47):
Now you still have to learnSalesforce and the platform and
its capabilities, but it helpedme ease into that fairly quickly
.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
That is good to know, and I didn't realize.
I truly thought Apex was kind ofits own language with some
similarities, but it was adifferent beast that you had
relearned.
So that is kind of interestingfor new admins.
I also truly believe that moreand more of what we're going to
see from new admins is going torequire some level of
(10:20):
understanding, for maybe notbeing able to fully write your
own script, but to be able toread and understand how Apex is
affecting your automations, yourprocesses, is going to be more
and more crucial for the newadmin.
So I do think it's interestingto know that if you can
understand these codinglanguages, you may have a leg up
(10:42):
in the ecosystem.
So that's a kind of nice littletidbit for new admins.
Changing the subject a littlebit, though, to the kind of your
introduction to the ecosystem,you've had the opportunity to be
a close part of the partnercommunity, and so, for people
(11:03):
out there who don't know whatthe partner community is, I love
it if you could really quicklyjust give a quick overview for
new admins what is the partnercommunity and how can't really
benefit new admins?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, the Salesforce Partner Program is a way for
individual companies to starttheir journey in delivering,
whether it's product or servicesthat relate to Salesforce.
And there's a few differenttypes of Salesforce partner.
There's the consulting partnerright, and the name is fairly
(11:40):
straightforward.
Small companies who are lookingto help other businesses use
Salesforce right.
That's a consultant.
It lines up with a consultingprogram.
Totally makes sense.
Now for the admins who areinterested.
Another program that mightalign a little bit more is the
(12:02):
independent software vendor, orabbreviated ISV, and the ISV
program is the beginning togetting a listing on the app
exchange.
Another type of partnershipthat Salesforce has is the
reseller, and it's a little bitmore popular, or a lot more
(12:24):
popular in the SouthernHemisphere.
That's how Salesforce is likelyto sell their services or its
software.
So yeah, those are the threemain kinds of partner programs
with.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Salesforce.
So leaning into the ISV side,because that's where you're
gonna see more folks kind ofdive into App Exchange pieces,
which I think adds some of thebiggest value.
I'm curious your take on whatopportunities is that offering
for new admins who are startingthere, who can create their own
(13:01):
LLC, who can get their ownbusiness up and running and kind
of dive into that freelancespace within the community?
So a better way, I think, ofthe question is how is being an
ISV valuable, not only fromadding to the community but a
viable option of moving forwardas a way to create a career in
(13:25):
the ecosystem?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah.
So if your idea or your product,if it has the potential to
reach or fulfill the needs for abunch of companies, and if
you're looking to have it besomething that's paid, it can
provide, even at the beginning,just a fairly decent passive
income stream.
(13:47):
You build the thing, otherpeople are paying you to use it
and there's not really much elsethat needs to go on there.
Now, some of the benefits ofactually being listed on the App
Exchange is that, well, acompanies who are trying to find
a solution to the problem, theyknow that Salesforce has done
the security review.
(14:08):
They know that they can trustyour solution.
Right, so that's at least forme, that's the perceived biggest
benefit, right?
Another thing too right,depending on how you're able to
network and meet people insideof Salesforce, right, when
Salesforce is going to go, youknow, sell to a company that has
(14:31):
already identified that problem, they might be able to
recommend your app as part ofselling the Salesforce licenses.
Right, they can say, hey, youknow, I mean they won't say it
like this, but they'll say weknow that we don't natively
address this particular need butthis App, exchange app, does.
(14:54):
So you know, as an overallpackage, we have a solution that
meets your business needs.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
I wanna dive now off of the partner community and
into what it's like being an appdeveloper in the ecosystem and
how some admins can be thinkingabout making that transition
into developer Cause.
One of the recommendations youget after getting that
Salesforce admin cert is cool,you have that cert.
(15:22):
Maybe go for the advanced adminor go for the platform
developer cert and the appdeveloper cert, so it is
interesting to see thattransition for admins.
With that being said, there's alot of things to be cognizant
about, so one of them being howdo you get the ideas to create
these apps?
A lot of people don't realizethat these apps, as you
(15:42):
mentioned earlier, are toaddress specific challenges, so
how do you go about identifyingthat?
Hey, this is a challenge thatmight exist.
I should build an app for this.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, that's really tough and in my past I've never
really been the one to come upwith the idea.
I've always found someone whohas had the idea and then I
would go and build it.
But a good way to identify isthis a common problem that other
people are facing?
(16:15):
The best way to try to identifythat is to talk to other
companies, other users, and theSalesforce ecosystem has a
couple of really great placeswhere you can go out and do that
.
(16:35):
There are some Slack groups,like there's Ohana Slack.
There's a few different, justchat environments where you can
go in and talk with other users.
It's hit and miss, I guess, ifyou're trying to vet a new idea,
because most of those users aredoing their day job and they're
(16:57):
focusing on other things.
Another really good one is tofind a user group that's local
to you.
Just jump in, join a couple oftimes and then you can start
chatting with the other peoplewho show up.
Now it's not as mass reach as aSlack group, but having that
(17:22):
personal touch, having thatface-to-face conversation, can
often yield better conversationsthan an online thread.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
That makes a lot of sense.
I mean it's interesting to hear, because I think a lot of
people are thinking, oh, it justcame to you, like it's the
whole story of Apple being foundin the garage and one person
had the idea and they just kindof went with it.
I mean, that's not always thecase.
You have to pull people, youhave to rely on the community,
(17:53):
because if you want it to besuccessful, you need more than
just you to think it's a goodidea.
With that being said, let'stalk about your first experience
building an app, which isalways kind of the hardest one.
I've always been told you mightbelieve, think differently on
that.
But what was the process likeof fantastic?
(18:15):
You found the idea.
You realized, hey, this issomething that a good amount of
people see as an issue in theecosystem.
We can build something toautomate and solve for this.
What was the process like ofsaying fantastic, here's idea.
Next step go through the design.
Here's how we need to code it alittle bit and then also make
it user-friendly.
(18:36):
From an experienced standpoint,yeah, that one's interesting.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
The first app that I put together.
It's called the AutomatedOpportunity Contact Roles app.
I'm not very good at namingthings, so everything that I
make has a very literal.
This is what it does.
No surprises, but we've workingat a consulting agency.
We had solved this problem for Idon't know three or four
(19:04):
different customers already, andI might not be the smartest guy
who comes up with brand newbusiness ideas, but I can
recognize a pattern.
Hey, three or four companieshave had this problem.
Maybe a whole bunch ofcompanies have this problem.
So that was the first,literally the first step for me
(19:25):
was identifying a pattern ofsomething that can be solved.
Now, once you've done that, forme the next couple steps are in
the way that we've solved italready.
Are there company specifics thatare currently built into the
(19:46):
solution that don't make sensewhen you try to scale it across
multiple businesses?
So those are the things thateither you have to take out or
you have to bring up to a higherlevel or make it a little bit
more abstract.
Now, once you get rid of or yousolve that for company-specific
whether it's features orwording or whatever it is the
(20:11):
next level in my mind is lookingat okay, are there industry
specifics that we need to takethat same approach for?
If we're building anindustry-specific application or
package, then we don't need todo that, but if we're trying to
build something that is industryagnostic, well then again, the
(20:32):
wording and the maybe evenfields we have to solve for that
to make it appealing to a widerbase.
As you step back each of thosetwo times, your solution is
getting a little bit moregeneric.
So you might have user guidesthat are industry-specific,
(20:57):
where you can still relate thosespecific things to what you've
genericized, and that can takethe shape of some demo videos,
or it can take the shape of userguides or whatever you need to
do, maybe even in-app guidance.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I mean, I do agree that it might be a kind of
second variation to what youbuild, especially for some new
admins.
But, honestly, though, beingable and you did this a little
bit with the AutomatedOpportunity Contact Rules app,
because I use that applicationthat was associated with the
company we worked for, circante,but I use that tool before I
(21:36):
even started working withCircante and ultimately, what
was my selling point?
Not only just because I neededthat solution fair again, I
needed to automate the additionof opportunity contact rules and
the second.
I saw that I was like, yes,that's what I need.
And when we purchased it andstarted using it, I was very
(21:57):
confused.
At first I was like, what do Ido?
How do I get started?
Again, the user guide washelpful.
And then in the app, you had onthe left side of the screen, the
step-by-step process of clickthis, click this, click this,
click this Again.
Love the click-not code.
And then on the right side,were instructions and overviews
as to kind of really detail outin depth in the moment, so I can
(22:17):
kind of instead of having tohave documentation here and the
actual user experience here, itwas all in one, so I'm on the
same screen figuring it out as Igo yeah, and I think I think
admins have a huge leg up onanyone else who's trying to
build an app for the Salesforceecosystem.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Admins know what it takes to configure Salesforce.
They know what it takes to setsomething up, whether it's
another app or integration oranything like that.
And we've gone through the painof integrations with terrible
documentation, outdatedscreenshot.
(23:01):
Everyone has experienced thatpain.
So an admin who's looking todesign or create an app like
this, that leg up I was talkingabout earlier, is how do we make
this A as rock solid of a userexperience that we can for the
(23:21):
admins right?
In my opinion, the userexperience of the install and
setup is probably one of themost important things that a
Salesforce app can focus on aspart of the install.
If the admin installing itdoesn't have confidence, doesn't
(23:42):
trust it, they're not evengoing to begin to roll it out to
users.
They're going to lose thatconfidence.
They're going to say you knowwhat, it's not worth this.
Maybe it feels sketchy, likeyou were saying earlier, so you
really want to just build it, tobe stretching here by saying
(24:02):
being a delight to set up, butthat's kind of what you have to
aim for, totally.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I always say you have to make things stupid-proof,
because the user experience iseither going to your point
either to the admin directly,and they have the leg up and it
should be a fairly intuitiveexperience or it's going to like
either a marketing or anoperations or a sales team, and
for those folks it's a matter ofyou have to make it as bare
(24:34):
bones and someone who doesn'tunderstand the technical as
possible and again, just make itclick one, click two, click
three, click four, boom, you'redone.
And that is something that I do.
Like you said, admins are goingto immediately understand and
know I have to make it this wayor it's not going to get by and
it's not going to be successfulat all.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, and depending on you know the admins who are
listening to this and whatthey've set up.
You've probably come across inSalesforce it's something that
they're calling setup assistance.
Right where it's, you know,step one it's got a little bit
of like a heading or whateverand some text right, and then
step two and then, as youcomplete the steps, they get
(25:17):
checked right.
That's kind of the experienceor the paradigm that is popular
right now and in the latest appthat I put together and I
released it just a month ago isin that setup experience.
I actually like I'll querypermission sets to make sure
(25:40):
that you know the permission setfrom my app has actually been
assigned.
I will query, like Salesforcesites, to make sure a site was
created right, so it's.
It's not that the admin says,yes, I did this step and trust
me, right, my setup assistantlike queries as much as possible
and we'll tell the admin.
(26:01):
Hey, you know of four steps.
You missed step number three.
You have to go back and assignthis permission set.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
With that being said to, to the kind of idea of
someone may have missed a step.
We do everything in our powerto make these applications again
as user friendly as possible sothat we get the buy in we need,
so that it's used and it'sworthy of being in our orgs.
How are you, as the appdeveloper, building into your
(26:32):
process feedback and iterationdevelopment?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, you know when, when you're looking to build a
new app, right, ideally you have, you know, a first round of
test users or test companies whoare willing to, you know, help
you out by doing that initialtesting and providing that
feedback.
Right, and in those situationsit's usually like either Slack
(27:00):
or email conversations.
You're having directly withthose other teams, right, you're
staying in touch, right, andyou're getting that feedback,
taking it into consideration andit may may be making the
changes Right now, as you startscaling up and you go beyond
your, you know, initial I don'tknow five or 10 companies that
(27:21):
helped you starting off, right,that's where you can have either
in app links or things likethat.
That's, you're asking people toshare that feedback.
And there's there's probably abunch of other ways that I have
yet to discover on, you know,how can we again make it a
(27:41):
delight for the Salesforce adminto provide that feedback?
You know, ideally not takingthem out of Salesforce.
So it's an area that I myselfneed to keep growing into, but I
think there's, I think there'sa few options that are possible.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
That's fair Towards the end side of that design and
kind of develop or the creationof an app, the process of
creating an app, the biggestthing we get to.
We've gotten feedback, we'vefinally launched it.
We may have even made a coupleiterations to it and realized,
(28:22):
oh, there are things I didn'thave and you made those updates.
What are you doing or whatwould?
Again, this is all personalopinion related.
By no means are we saying thisis the way to do it and you have
to do it this way.
But for you, in your experience, how are you measuring whether
or not the app was a success?
(28:43):
So whether that is thefinancial side of it, but also
just the you're seeing peopleuse it.
How are you defining that I'vemade a positive impact and we've
gotten the buy in?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I mean, that's going to depend on each business or
each company or, in this case,each admin, right, some will
just measure hey, have peopleinstalled it and not removed it?
Right, if people are keeping itin their orgs, right, that's a
good thing.
Now it's nice to measurefinancial side.
Right, our user licenses goingup, or you know.
(29:19):
However, you're pricing it likeif that's continuing to grow,
that might be a success criteria.
It could just be.
And, like for the first fewapps that I released, this is
it's not a very high bar, butonce I started seeing other
people in the communityrecommend the things that I've
made to help others solve aproblem, for me that was like,
(29:42):
okay, perfect, like, not only doother people use it and like it
, but they're recommending it toother people Right now, there's
, there's no financial thing forthat, right.
But for me that's, you know, assomeone who's wanting to share
something and, you know, fill agap and help the community.
For me that was like, yeah,this is awesome that's.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
That's the kind of shining star.
And I agree with what you saidit's different for everyone
Because some of the apps youcreate they don't have to have a
price tag to them, they canjust be free to use for anyone
and everyone.
You've created an app that wasfree to use for anyone and being
able to see those reviews andsee those comments, and I
definitely agree that that feelsgood.
(30:29):
That feels like, hey, what I'mdoing is more than just me
putting something into the etherand then it just dies in the
black hole.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
So I get it completely.
I can't even believe I forgotto mention the app exchange
reviews.
But yeah, like getting thefirst couple of reviews for some
of the apps that I made, it'slike, oh cool, this is awesome.
Now, like the product marketersor product marketing managers
who are out there, you knowthat's just part of their
playbook of trying to getreviews so that you know it
(30:58):
helps people make the decisionright.
You're more likely to installan app in your org if it's got a
four or five star rating.
Then one who has a low rating,like a one or two stars right,
that's almost the kiss of death.
And then you know if you havezero ratings right, then it's
like well, no one said it's goodor bad, so am I taking a gamble
(31:21):
here?
Speaker 1 (31:22):
So, going back to something we had highlighted
earlier in the conversationaround your background, being
around integrations, a lot ofthese apps that you've created
were specific to just being ableto update and automate things
inside of the Salesforcenatively, but you've also
created some really coolapplications that specialize
(31:43):
around integrations.
So I'm curious for you how doyou handle, or how might a new
admin handle, creating anapplication that's specific
around connecting two systemsthat don't either natively talk
to each other or don't nativelytalk to each other?
Speaker 2 (32:02):
well, yeah, that one can get interesting when,
anytime, you have two differentsystems right and you're trying
to connect them in some way.
One of the first things that Iwill do is I'll look at the
developer documentation for bothand I'll see are there APIs?
(32:24):
Right, and with an API, thatmeans I have to have code or I
have to have something that willask for information or will
push information in Right, sosome other system is driving the
communication Right.
I'll look for APIs in both andI'll also look for web hooks in
(32:45):
both.
Right, and web hooks are wherethe system is pushing
information out saying, hey, anew record was created.
Go handle it however you want,or you know someone clicks on a
link or Some action took placethat we need to measure, right,
(33:07):
and then it's up to yourintegration to figure out what
to do with it.
Right, so I'll look for APIs andweb hooks and then you know,
depending on what's available,that will help me determine what
needs to be built and wheremight it need to run.
Right Now, sometimes anintegration can be completely
(33:29):
built inside of Salesforce,right, so, using Apex or using
some declarative things right,you can just kind of build it
all within Salesforce and itworks great.
Other times, right, it doesn'tmake sense for various reasons,
and you have to have yourintegration or your code running
(33:49):
on a computer in between thetwo systems, right?
One of the things you can thinkof there is like the Zappiers
and the work Hottos, right,those are like point and click
declarative integration toolsthat you know kind of do that,
and if a work Hottos or a Treyor a Zappier work and they fill
(34:11):
the you know they allow you tobuild that string between the
two tin cans then perfect, right, sometimes, though, it's not
possible to use any of thosetools because you know your use
case is just I don't want to saytoo unique, but it's just not
supported.
So then you actually have tobuild code that sits in between.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
I don't know if this is an accurate statement.
So keep me honest, because youare the professional and you're
the expert in this situation.
I am absolutely not as themarketer, but I've always
recommended and seen situationswhere it's a scalability issue
when I'm trying to push in somuch data from one system to the
other.
That's when I usually try to goaway from a Zappier, trey work,
(34:54):
hottos type solution and golook at again a more direct API
connection, because I've workedwith so many people who have
always said oh, I don't know howI feel about Zappier, because
I've heard from developers thatit's not good and we shouldn't
use it and we shouldn't lookinto it and yada, yada.
And I don't agree with thatbecause I do feel like, like you
(35:15):
said, they serve a purpose,they are wonderful tools, they
are click, not code and they cando a very good job.
But the second I'm starting todeal with like two, three, four
hundred records per day hour Ijust don't feel like that's
scalable.
So I'm curious your take onthat.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah, I mean I hate to be the consultant here, but
it depends, Like running inproduction.
Today I use Zappier myself fora lot of smaller scenarios,
right, and I've custom made somethings to, like you say, handle
that higher volume thing.
I think it's a fair assessmentthat when you start dealing in
(35:58):
large numbers of records, thatyou know maybe is happier and
some of those other tools aren'tthe best, and I don't yeah, I
guess it would depend on youknow how many records are you
processing?
You know at the same time,right, and you know it's also
(36:18):
going to depend on the API's andwhat you're trying to do.
But a lot of times, custom code, can you know?
Pull in all the informationfrom one system, pull in all the
information from another system, crunch the numbers and then
put the results somewhere, right, and that's the kind of thing
you're definitely not going tobe able to do so well on.
(36:41):
You know, zappier and thoseother those other tools Love
that.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
And I called out specifically just because I just
hear so many people just saynegative things about Zappier
and those solutions and I justwant to highlight that.
Well, yes, the purpose of thisepisode and the topic is to,
like, get people to learn appdevelopment and, yes, to build
apps and be more comfortablewith that.
There is a recognizable spacefor those solutions in the
(37:09):
ecosystem and they arecompletely valid to use and we
shouldn't dismiss them justbecause there's no code involved
.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Yeah, and I think you know, for the admins who are,
you know, trying to put togetherthe first app, or they're
trying to, you know, figure outwhat this might look like.
Like, yes, please, like, firstthing you should do is look at
the Zappiers and those othertools to see if you can
accomplish it through that.
Right, because then you don'thave to custom make it.
(37:40):
Right, it's a lot easier to getstarted and then you know, as
your business needs, or as yourideas needs, evolve and grow,
then you might you might growout of one tool and need to move
to another.
It's just a natural progressionof any kind of app, right, yeah
(38:01):
, that can apply to even, like,the language that you're using
to custom code something, or thetools that you're using to
support your code.
Like, there's, there's so many,so many things that can come
into play as you start scalingand, you know, rip and replace
or rewriting things orrebuilding things.
(38:21):
It's just a supernatural thingas part of, you know, an app's
progression.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Yeah, and it is interesting to see kind of all
you have to do from a handlingof the data.
Like you said, you need to makesure that you can push, because
one of the apps that you'vecreated that I personally love
is the.
You create an application thatwas a zoom integration for for
par dot specifically, and theintegration that's native is
(38:52):
wonderful.
It does what a lot of peopleneed to do, but there's a level
of what your application doesthat offers the ability for
people to go in and then use themarketing automation emails,
those email templates, andautomatically connect between
Salesforce without the need ofan automation rule or engagement
(39:13):
studio program or whatever, andit's just so boom boom, boom
done.
But to do that you had to beable to call out from zoom, go
into a middleware, fix the data,clean it up to make sure that
Salesforce could intake it andthen push that to Salesforce, so
there's a lot of things thatare being done from handling
that data.
(39:33):
On the other end, though, ofjust pushing the data from one
system to the other, a lot ofthings we have to worry about
for those integrations and justother apps within Salesforce is
around data security andcompliance.
So high level.
What are some of the bestpractices and things new admins
and app developers need to keepin mind when it comes to
(39:57):
ensuring their data iscompliance and secure?
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, data security is a very complex topic and we
could probably do like two orthree podcasts on it at least.
But the short version and whatI've tried to do with all of the
apps that I've made is I don'twant to hold on to anyone else's
(40:25):
data, I will process it, I willfinish processing it and then I
forget it and, because I forgotit, there's nothing for me to
backup, there's nothing for meto protect.
It makes security a lot easierto talk about when I can say I
(40:46):
don't have your data.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Calling that out, and this is from a dumb, dumb
perspective like my own, becauseI didn't realize.
When you said that to me yearsago, I kept thinking what do you
mean?
If it gets it?
It's in Salesforce, like you'repulling it from that one system
to Salesforce.
What do you mean if you forgotit?
You're specifically saying myapp that is processing and
pushing it.
Salesforce it is.
It's a one and done.
(41:08):
It happens within seconds andthen it's gone.
Salesforce sure keeps therecord and process and it has
the last updated by integrationuser in its audit log so you can
know that your integration didsomething.
But your integration isn'tsaving any of that data.
So there's no risk of an emailaddress or secure information
(41:30):
getting caught in the wronghands, right?
Speaker 2 (41:33):
No, you know the the mentality and approach of I
don't want to store, or you knowI don't want to keep your data.
That works really well.
When you're looking to build anintegration that sits off of
the Salesforce platform, right,for an admin getting started,
likely that's not where you'regonna make your very first thing
, right, likely you're gonnaAutomate something inside of
(41:56):
Salesforce.
You know whether it's along thelines of, like, automated
opportunity contact roles orwhatever your use cases, right.
But what's really nice aboutbuilding on the Salesforce
platform is that Salesforce isthe one that is storing that
data.
They're the ones that have allthe agreements, all the security
Certifications.
(42:16):
Right, your app, it's justworking with data.
That's already there and it'syou know.
If you're not moving it out,then again, like you as a
company can say I Don't have anyof that customer data, it's all
inside of your Salesforce org.
Yes, my code is in yourSalesforce org, it's working
(42:37):
with it.
But again, I know the Royal, Iguess.
Right, I Don't have it, I don'thave to, I don't want to say I
don't have to worry about itbecause you still should.
But you know there's nothing,nothing there for Security risk.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Yeah, and that's, I think, a good call out, because
I feel like Compliance and datasecurity, especially as AI is
becoming more prevalent in theecosystem, I feel like they are
becoming buzzwords that peoplehear and then they get really
anxious and then they but theydon't realize, like, the true
meaning of how is data secure orhow is data compliant.
(43:20):
So just being able to say, yeah, we're manipulating this in
your org, but nothing is leavingyour org.
So I like that, that highlight,so that you can still build
apps, you can still build reallycool things and solutions in
the ecosystem and not have tofeel like you're gonna get Sued
by whoever you're is buying yourapp.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Yeah, and I mean, you know, depending on the thing
that you're putting together,right, it could just be a
visualization app, right, that'ssomething that's very easily
packaged and deployed and youknow, like, you're not even
processing the data, you're justshowing it, maybe in a
different you know, maybe it's adifferent lightning web
(44:02):
component that makes it easierto look at.
You know two different things,right, there's, there's a ton of
different ways and Solutionsthat you can build and deploy,
so yeah, that makes a lot ofsense.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
That makes a lot of sense.
So, with all that being said,we're nearing the end of our
time and of our conversation.
It's been a lovely conversationabout this very interesting and
needed topic.
I have two wrap-up questions.
The first is the first of themis specifically around the
(44:38):
future of Developing, the futureof that in the Salesforce
ecosystem and again we couldprobably talk about Talk two
more episodes, specific aroundthe future of developing apps in
the future of Coding anddeveloping inside of Salesforce,
but again keeping a high level.
I'm curious your thoughts andinsights around how do you think
(45:01):
the future looks for peoplecoming into the developer space
with the introduction of AI andhow that's going to help but
also hurt people beingdevelopers in the ecosystem.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah, there's.
You know, with any newtechnology, the first I don't
know mainstream conversation ishey, new tech X is gonna take
all our jobs.
And that has been said a lot youmight have heard that and
that's never really how it goes,right, you might have a few
(45:38):
extreme examples and we've seenthat in the news already where
you know some companies overseashave, you know, eliminated
their workforce or like a giantchunk of it, hoping to replace
with AI, and you know it'sprobably gonna crash and burn.
But hey, you know, as a pioneer, those are some of the chances
that you take.
The way that I see AI anddevelopers, it's, it's gonna be
(46:03):
one of those scenarios of youknow, ai won't replace your
development job.
A developer using AI will.
Right, and I think that's gonnabe true for a lot of different.
You know industries and jobprofessions Right, you have a
new tool that's gonna help yoube more efficient right, you got
.
(46:23):
You have to get on board.
Right, you have to learn how touse it.
Right, and you can use it insmall ways, right.
Myself, the way that I use AI's, I use github's co-pilot right,
as I'm writing code, IBasically use it as a very fancy
auto complete.
Right, and as I'm writing lineby line, I have it.
(46:46):
You know, auto suggest eithercompleting that line or maybe
it'll auto complete like threeor four lines, a little block,
right, that's the way that I useit, not to say that that's the
way that people have to.
Right, there's lots of examplesof people auto generating like
an entire program and while it'scool or at least while it is
(47:08):
cool from a capabilityperspective Right, you still
have to try to read andunderstand the code, right?
So even admins who are lookingat someone else's apex that's in
their org and you know they'rethey're reading it to try to
understand it.
Anyone who's reading code,their brain just naturally
(47:33):
thinks that what is written iscorrect.
So it's really hard totroubleshoot or to identify
where a problem might be.
Right, you're trusting thatwhat AI has created is gonna
work, so it can be tricky.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
I Completely agree with that, and someone on one of
our previous episodes aroundwhere we talked a lot about AI,
kind of called out exactly and Ilove the the that were
reiterating that and it's.
You can't just take it and say,cool, this is good, and then
walk away.
You have to.
To your point, the person whoknows AI is gonna replace the
(48:15):
person who doesn't know AI,because it's a matter of it
completed for you, but then youstill have to check, you still
have to proofread.
So the same concept, for we hadtalked about AI in the world of
marketing for content andGenerative AI.
In that regard, same principlesapply for the coding side, but
I'm curious your opinion on it.
How should Developers andadmins be looking at that code
(48:40):
and be testing and be thinkingabout what level of confidence
should you have?
I mean it's reviewing the codeyou've created historically, so
shouldn't that be good enough?
Speaker 2 (48:51):
I mean it might be right, and you know when we're,
when we're talking about theEinstein code capabilities,
right, foundationally it's gonnahave a bunch of code samples or
whatever in the base model,right, so it's gonna already
have, you know, the vastmajority of the knowledge, and
(49:15):
I'm doing air quotes, right, soit's gonna start off with that,
right.
And then if you have code inyour org, right, it's supposed
to look at it and help it shapesome of its answers.
Now I think it'll beinteresting, you know, as it
gets higher adoption, right, andor it might have been around
(49:36):
for a long time that have awhole bunch of garbage code.
I think it'll be interesting tosee.
You know, is the generative AIcapabilities smart enough to,
like, lower the priority orDe-prioritize some of the
garbage stuff and, you know,give more to the nicer, newer
things?
(49:56):
So I think it.
I think it'll be interestinghow you know all that comes
together.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
Well, that's all really fantastic to hear.
With that being said, we're atour final question and you
probably know, because you'velistened to the show, but I had
the same general question foreveryone at the very end because
I'm lazy.
No, I just think it's a veryhelpful question For people in
the ecosystem.
But as you've gone through yourjourney, we've heard your
(50:26):
amazing story of getting startedin the ecosystem and what
you've done and whatapplications you've created
Throughout that whole journey.
What is your one regret thatyou've had that you wish you
could go back and say I shouldhave done this differently?
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Looking back, what I would do differently is I would
get into the sales forceecosystem, like as soon as I can
, right, whether it's usergroups, whether it's attending
Conferences, and I know there'scosts associated with that,
right.
But if you know, if you're anadmin looking to grow and you
know really looking to Evolve,right, you might want to
(51:07):
consider a personal expense ofyou know Attending these things
to help accelerate your growthso that you can get some, you
know, newer and Maybe moreexciting opportunities.
Now, I recognize not everyone'sin the position to be able to
do that right.
So you know, maybe you try Somemore creative ways to get your
(51:30):
company to participate, maybeyou split costs, I don't know.
There's there's a bunch ofthings there, but again, just
getting out in the community alot more, I think that's
something that I would.
I would do differently.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
It's something that a lot of people have said it just
in general, whether it's theirregret or whether it is their
kind of big shining star ahamoment, but it is interesting to
hear from from all facets, notjust the Marketing or sales
background folk, it's, it'severyone.
It's the developer, because thedeveloper community inside of
(52:03):
the ecosystem is so extensiveand it's so rich with talent and
insights and amazing stories.
So I I love that say call outbecause it, like you said, so
many of us Don't feel like weneed to join the community.
Sales force is just a tool thathelps us complete our job and
(52:23):
we can call it a day and go hometo our families and Do whatever
.
But there is such a value inAfterworks done, meeting up with
these people in the community,whether it's through zoom or
Webinar or whatever tool you usefor meeting, virtual meetups or
whether it's in person.
They're so valuable.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
You know other thing over the last two weeks I've
been listening to the book themom test.
It's a really fascinating bookon, you know, asking the right
questions to validate if youridea is Actually a good one,
right?
And the premise is you know, ifI go ask my mom if this
(53:06):
business idea is a good idea,whether or not she really thinks
it is, she's gonna tell me it's, it's amazing and I'll do great
, right.
So how can you ask certainquestions so that even your mom
doesn't lie to you?
Right?
It might not be on purpose, butyou know, if I had some of that
(53:27):
book knowledge, you know, five,ten years ago, I think it
really would have shaped eithersome of the apps that I've made
differently, or I don't know ifit would have tempered some of
the ideas, or I don't know.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
But I mean that's a good call out because and I feel
like you get that a little bitin the community because
everyone wants to be sosupportive, but you have to find
the right group of people towho are going to to your point,
not just tell you what you wantto hear and not just be like, oh
my gosh.
That's an amazing idea.
You should run with it and theywill be brutally honest with
you and be like hey, three othercompanies, are we doing this
(54:05):
idea or you need to flush it outa little bit more to really
find the value.
So I like that the kind of idea.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
Yeah, so yeah, it's the mom test.
I think it's a really greatbook.
I'm gonna be listening it to it.
Listening to it a couple moretimes to help my brain absorb it
.
Totally, I love that.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
Well, I think that's a wonderful call out, that's a
wonderful recommendation for newadmins to get more involved and
like rethink truly.
It are the things they'recreating and adding to the
ecosystem, truly adding value.
So Thank you so much, adam, fortaking the time to join us.
I really enjoyed your story andhopefully the listeners can
reach out to you directly ifthey have any questions.
Speaker 2 (54:47):
Of course this is.
This has been fun.
Thanks a lot.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
And that concludes another episode of admins of
tomorrow.
A Special thanks to our guest,adam, for sharing their journey
in the ecosystem and providing afew tips and tricks on how new
admins can find their way in theworld of Salesforce app
development.
It was an absolute blast tohear his perspectives on how new
admins can think about creatingnew apps and solutions and
Salesforce.
I Personally enjoyed how wewere able to talk about how to
(55:24):
create an app that was not onlyable to solve challenges but
also make it user friendly foradmins with a click not code
mindset, like myself.
If you'd like to learn moreabout data cloud or becoming a
Salesforce developer, there'sstill time to register for
Trailblazer DX.
Go to salesforcecom forwardslash trailblazer DX to register
(55:45):
now or sign up to watch onSalesforce plus.
Thank you all again for takingthe time to listen and support
the podcast.
If you have any feedback,questions or topic suggestions,
as always, we'd love to hearfrom you, so don't hesitate to
connect with us on LinkedIn,twitter or email us at info at
admins of tomorrow com.
Again, if you are someone youknow would like to be on the
(56:05):
show or would like to givesomeone a shout out, please go
to our website.
Admins of tomorrow, commforward, slash, share your
thoughts and fill out our formto be on the show.
And finally, if you enjoyedthis episode, please don't
forget to subscribe and leave areview.
Every review and every listenmeans the absolute world to us
and helps us continue to growand build out the show For a
wider audience.
(56:26):
So please share with yourfellow Trailblazers and listen
to us on Apple podcast, spotifyor wherever you listen to
podcasts.
Once again, I'm Jay Catilano,your host, signing off.
We appreciate you for listeningto.
Admins of tomorrow Trailblazingthe next generation.
Good morning and good afternoon.
My name is Jacob Catalano andwelcome to another episode of
Admins of Tomorrow.
It has been a wonderful monthof February and we are now two
full months into 2024.
I said it at the end ofJanuary's episode and it brings
even more true now, but this hasbeen such a whirlwind year and
I'm so very thankful to everyonewho's been able to support and
(00:39):
watch the show and honestly beenable to help this podcast grow
into what it is today.
With that said, there's so muchto look forward to in March,
like Trailblazer DX, which isgoing to take place next week on
March 6th and 7th in SanFrancisco.
Now I call this conference outbecause it has become a go-to
event for Salesforce developers,admins and architects alike.
(01:02):
So what better way to lead intoa conference for developers
than to meet with this week'sguest?
Today we're going to sit downwith Adam Erstelle, a Salesforce
app developer and technicalarchitect, who has been someone
I've had the pleasure of workingalongside for many years now.
Now, before working with Adam,the idea of adding anything code
related to what I was workingon in Salesforce felt horrible.
(01:25):
It was not anything I wanted toeven touch with a 10-foot pole,
but over time I had theopportunity to learn from Adam
that API, apex, sql reallyanything you can do with code in
Salesforce wasn't a hindrance.
Rather, it was another set oftools that I could use, and my
team could use, to grow anddevelop and make our lives so
(01:48):
much easier.
So, with that said, I can'twait for everyone to hear Adam's
story and learn how new adminscan get started and find their
way in app development inSalesforce.
So, without further ado, let'smeet Adam.
Adam Erstelle is a seniortechnical architect and seasoned
technology leader with a proventrack record of delivering
complex, innovative solutionsand building successful
(02:10):
engineering teams.
Adam has over 20 years ofsoftware and development team
leadership experience and aknack for diving into new
technologies and learning themquickly.
Skilled in Apex, java, spring,mvc and data rest mobile
applications, adam and bodystrong engineering knowledge
with a history of helping teamsmodernize their development
(02:31):
practices and methodologies.
So let's not waste any moretime and dive on in.
So thank you so much, adam.
Really appreciate you fortaking the time to jump in and
be on podcast with us today.
So, before we dive into thekind of technical which you and
(02:52):
I love, I'd love if you couldjust give a quick introduction
of yourself and kind of give usa story of how you got into the
ecosystem.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, so my background.
I guess my story started geezabout 22 years ago when I was in
a little community college justlearning computer programming.
Once I got out I got into thetelecommunications space.
I was working for an internetservice provider and I excelled
(03:25):
at my job to the point where Iwould get thrown on a project, I
would deliver it ridiculouslyearly and then my boss was just
telling me to take a few daysoff because he didn't know what
to do with me.
It also got to the point whereI would only work like half an
hour a day and like there wasliterally no other work for me
to do, which, you know, on thesurface sounds kind of cool but
(03:50):
say that sounds like the dream.
And, you know, at the verybeginning it kind of was because
I was able to, you know, diginto forums I learned a whole
bunch about, like home theaterand home improvements and, you
know, just trying to fill thetime to, well, frankly, stay
awake.
And once that got tired and,you know, over with I just
(04:11):
literally started napping at mydesk.
I would have a sign that sayswake me for work.
And, you know, even after awhile, that was just ridiculous.
So I was able to get out afterabout like four and a half years
of four years I don't knowsomething like that Wow.
And I joined this little tinystartup that was looking to get
(04:31):
into the digital signage spacefor for hospitals, right?
So nowadays you go to ahospital, there's TVs that have
information, a couple ads, right?
The startup was one of the onesthat we're trying to pioneer
that After a year the grantmoney ran out and I actually
went back to thattelecommunications company and I
(04:55):
think that's really where mydevelopment journey like really
started, started to take off.
I was able to learn a wholebunch about web development.
I was building web apps thatwould actually run on the TV.
So, like that was really,really cool.
I started to get into some usergroups up there, you know, kind
of getting out in the communitya little bit.
(05:17):
And then I moved to the States,basically to, you know, try to
start something up.
So that was my second forayinto, like the startup world.
It kind of flopped.
And then, you know, I startedworking for a telecommunications
company down here.
I guess close to the end ofthat, you know, five year stint
(05:38):
Again, I started running into a.
I ran into a neighbor at thetime who was starting a company
that was doing consulting forpart up.
He had basically copied ascript off the internet, he
broke it and you know, as onedoes, absolutely.
(05:59):
But he didn't know how to fix it.
So he came over.
You know, we had a couple beers.
I put the semi colon in theright spot and it started
working Right, so he was able todelight the client and he's
like hey, you want to keep doingthis stuff, and that's
basically like literally how Igot into the Salesforce
ecosystem.
Prior to that, I just I knew itas a logo, I've seen it in the
(06:22):
news a few times, but I didn'tknow what Salesforce was Right.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
So I don't want to say I'm an accidental developer,
right, but it was somethingthat was unexpected, that is
interesting that you, like yousaid it's not accidental but to
an extent, what an amazinglookout of your neighbor is
starting this company in theecosystem and you just happened
(06:46):
to find the right semi colon atthe right time.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, and you know a lot of the other people who've
participated in this podcast.
They tell similar uniquestories, right, and almost
everyone that I run into in theecosystem they'll have like
really unique and interestingstories.
You know, no one goes tocollege to be in the Salesforce
ecosystem Like what the hell?
Right?
But you know we're all here nowand you know it's awesome that
(07:13):
we're able to share theseexperiences.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
It is interesting because, you're right, we all
have very similar stories, inthat the pieces just kind of
fell right into place.
It's fun too to kind of thinkthrough what that next
generation of admin story isgoing to be like.
Was it just like you and thatthey were a developer?
They were working half an houra day and just kind of not
(07:37):
feeling fully fulfilled and theykind of looked into that space
of it all.
I'm curious for you being moreon the developer side, what was
that transition like from moreagain more traditional coding, I
assume actually I'm not goingto assume what language you were
(07:58):
coding in, but realistically itwas not some of the stuff you
see more regularly on Salesforce.
I assume it was really easy tokind of figure things out on the
Salesforce back end.
So kind of I'd love to hearyour side of it, though, of how
difficult was it to kind ofshift mental gears from your day
to day coding for kind of webapps and development to
(08:22):
Salesforce developing?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, I guess in a way I kind of lucked out because
throughout my career I've beenprimarily focused on building
integrations right.
So one system talking toanother that happens a lot in
the telecommunications industry.
But it just happens a lotbecause there's so many business
apps out there and they need totalk to each other in order for
(08:45):
us to actually realize businessvalue.
So when I got into theSalesforce ecosystem and started
building things a little bitmore elaborate than placing a
semicolon and a text file right,I found that I was able to lean
on all of the other developmentskills I had built over 15
years.
(09:06):
And that's not unique to me,right?
Anyone who's moving jobs,moving careers, you always try
to lean on the skills you'vealready built to help make the
switch.
Yeah, right Now, specificallyfor Salesforce's development
language, which is called Apex.
Some of the people here mighthave heard of that.
(09:26):
It was based on the Javadevelopment language that quite
a while ago.
So the Java language has movedon and evolved quite a bit.
Apex kind of hasn't.
But if you know Java, if youknow C sharp or those types of
languages, apex is a fairly easyswitch.
(09:47):
Now you still have to learnSalesforce and the platform and
its capabilities, but it helpedme ease into that fairly quickly
.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
That is good to know, and I didn't realize.
I truly thought Apex was kind ofits own language with some
similarities, but it was adifferent beast that you had
relearned.
So that is kind of interestingfor new admins.
I also truly believe that moreand more of what we're going to
see from new admins is going torequire some level of
(10:20):
understanding, for maybe notbeing able to fully write your
own script, but to be able toread and understand how Apex is
affecting your automations, yourprocesses, is going to be more
and more crucial for the newadmin.
So I do think it's interestingto know that if you can
understand these codinglanguages, you may have a leg up
(10:42):
in the ecosystem.
So that's a kind of nice littletidbit for new admins.
Changing the subject a littlebit, though, to the kind of your
introduction to the ecosystem,you've had the opportunity to be
a close part of the partnercommunity, and so, for people
(11:03):
out there who don't know whatthe partner community is, I love
it if you could really quicklyjust give a quick overview for
new admins what is the partnercommunity and how can't really
benefit new admins?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, the Salesforce Partner Program is a way for
individual companies to starttheir journey in delivering,
whether it's product or servicesthat relate to Salesforce.
And there's a few differenttypes of Salesforce partner.
There's the consulting partnerright, and the name is fairly
(11:40):
straightforward.
Small companies who are lookingto help other businesses use
Salesforce right.
That's a consultant.
It lines up with a consultingprogram.
Totally makes sense.
Now for the admins who areinterested.
Another program that mightalign a little bit more is the
(12:02):
independent software vendor, orabbreviated ISV, and the ISV
program is the beginning togetting a listing on the app
exchange.
Another type of partnershipthat Salesforce has is the
reseller, and it's a little bitmore popular, or a lot more
(12:24):
popular in the SouthernHemisphere.
That's how Salesforce is likelyto sell their services or its
software.
So yeah, those are the threemain kinds of partner programs
with.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Salesforce.
So leaning into the ISV side,because that's where you're
gonna see more folks kind ofdive into App Exchange pieces,
which I think adds some of thebiggest value.
I'm curious your take on whatopportunities is that offering
for new admins who are startingthere, who can create their own
(13:01):
LLC, who can get their ownbusiness up and running and kind
of dive into that freelancespace within the community?
So a better way, I think, ofthe question is how is being an
ISV valuable, not only fromadding to the community but a
viable option of moving forwardas a way to create a career in
(13:25):
the ecosystem?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah.
So if your idea or your product,if it has the potential to
reach or fulfill the needs for abunch of companies, and if
you're looking to have it besomething that's paid, it can
provide, even at the beginning,just a fairly decent passive
income stream.
(13:47):
You build the thing, otherpeople are paying you to use it
and there's not really much elsethat needs to go on there.
Now, some of the benefits ofactually being listed on the App
Exchange is that, well, acompanies who are trying to find
a solution to the problem, theyknow that Salesforce has done
the security review.
(14:08):
They know that they can trustyour solution.
Right, so that's at least forme, that's the perceived biggest
benefit, right?
Another thing too right,depending on how you're able to
network and meet people insideof Salesforce, right, when
Salesforce is going to go, youknow, sell to a company that has
(14:31):
already identified that problem, they might be able to
recommend your app as part ofselling the Salesforce licenses.
Right, they can say, hey, youknow, I mean they won't say it
like this, but they'll say weknow that we don't natively
address this particular need butthis App, exchange app, does.
(14:54):
So you know, as an overallpackage, we have a solution that
meets your business needs.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
I wanna dive now off of the partner community and
into what it's like being an appdeveloper in the ecosystem and
how some admins can be thinkingabout making that transition
into developer Cause.
One of the recommendations youget after getting that
Salesforce admin cert is cool,you have that cert.
(15:22):
Maybe go for the advanced adminor go for the platform
developer cert and the appdeveloper cert, so it is
interesting to see thattransition for admins.
With that being said, there's alot of things to be cognizant
about, so one of them being howdo you get the ideas to create
these apps?
A lot of people don't realizethat these apps, as you
(15:42):
mentioned earlier, are toaddress specific challenges, so
how do you go about identifyingthat?
Hey, this is a challenge thatmight exist.
I should build an app for this.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, that's really tough and in my past I've never
really been the one to come upwith the idea.
I've always found someone whohas had the idea and then I
would go and build it.
But a good way to identify isthis a common problem that other
people are facing?
(16:15):
The best way to try to identifythat is to talk to other
companies, other users, and theSalesforce ecosystem has a
couple of really great placeswhere you can go out and do that
.
(16:35):
There are some Slack groups,like there's Ohana Slack.
There's a few different, justchat environments where you can
go in and talk with other users.
It's hit and miss, I guess, ifyou're trying to vet a new idea,
because most of those users aredoing their day job and they're
(16:57):
focusing on other things.
Another really good one is tofind a user group that's local
to you.
Just jump in, join a couple oftimes and then you can start
chatting with the other peoplewho show up.
Now it's not as mass reach as aSlack group, but having that
(17:22):
personal touch, having thatface-to-face conversation, can
often yield better conversationsthan an online thread.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
That makes a lot of sense.
I mean it's interesting to hear, because I think a lot of
people are thinking, oh, it justcame to you, like it's the
whole story of Apple being foundin the garage and one person
had the idea and they just kindof went with it.
I mean, that's not always thecase.
You have to pull people, youhave to rely on the community,
(17:53):
because if you want it to besuccessful, you need more than
just you to think it's a goodidea.
With that being said, let'stalk about your first experience
building an app, which isalways kind of the hardest one.
I've always been told you mightbelieve, think differently on
that.
But what was the process likeof fantastic?
(18:15):
You found the idea.
You realized, hey, this issomething that a good amount of
people see as an issue in theecosystem.
We can build something toautomate and solve for this.
What was the process like ofsaying fantastic, here's idea.
Next step go through the design.
Here's how we need to code it alittle bit and then also make
it user-friendly.
(18:36):
From an experienced standpoint,yeah, that one's interesting.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
The first app that I put together.
It's called the AutomatedOpportunity Contact Roles app.
I'm not very good at namingthings, so everything that I
make has a very literal.
This is what it does.
No surprises, but we've workingat a consulting agency.
We had solved this problem for Idon't know three or four
(19:04):
different customers already, andI might not be the smartest guy
who comes up with brand newbusiness ideas, but I can
recognize a pattern.
Hey, three or four companieshave had this problem.
Maybe a whole bunch ofcompanies have this problem.
So that was the first,literally the first step for me
(19:25):
was identifying a pattern ofsomething that can be solved.
Now, once you've done that, forme the next couple steps are in
the way that we've solved italready.
Are there company specifics thatare currently built into the
(19:46):
solution that don't make sensewhen you try to scale it across
multiple businesses?
So those are the things thateither you have to take out or
you have to bring up to a higherlevel or make it a little bit
more abstract.
Now, once you get rid of or yousolve that for company-specific
whether it's features orwording or whatever it is the
(20:11):
next level in my mind is lookingat okay, are there industry
specifics that we need to takethat same approach for?
If we're building anindustry-specific application or
package, then we don't need todo that, but if we're trying to
build something that is industryagnostic, well then again, the
(20:32):
wording and the maybe evenfields we have to solve for that
to make it appealing to a widerbase.
As you step back each of thosetwo times, your solution is
getting a little bit moregeneric.
So you might have user guidesthat are industry-specific,
(20:57):
where you can still relate thosespecific things to what you've
genericized, and that can takethe shape of some demo videos,
or it can take the shape of userguides or whatever you need to
do, maybe even in-app guidance.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I mean, I do agree that it might be a kind of
second variation to what youbuild, especially for some new
admins.
But, honestly, though, beingable and you did this a little
bit with the AutomatedOpportunity Contact Rules app,
because I use that applicationthat was associated with the
company we worked for, circante,but I use that tool before I
(21:36):
even started working withCircante and ultimately, what
was my selling point?
Not only just because I neededthat solution fair again, I
needed to automate the additionof opportunity contact rules and
the second.
I saw that I was like, yes,that's what I need.
And when we purchased it andstarted using it, I was very
(21:57):
confused.
At first I was like, what do Ido?
How do I get started?
Again, the user guide washelpful.
And then in the app, you had onthe left side of the screen, the
step-by-step process of clickthis, click this, click this,
click this Again.
Love the click-not code.
And then on the right side,were instructions and overviews
as to kind of really detail outin depth in the moment, so I can
(22:17):
kind of instead of having tohave documentation here and the
actual user experience here, itwas all in one, so I'm on the
same screen figuring it out as Igo yeah, and I think I think
admins have a huge leg up onanyone else who's trying to
build an app for the Salesforceecosystem.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Admins know what it takes to configure Salesforce.
They know what it takes to setsomething up, whether it's
another app or integration oranything like that.
And we've gone through the painof integrations with terrible
documentation, outdatedscreenshot.
(23:01):
Everyone has experienced thatpain.
So an admin who's looking todesign or create an app like
this, that leg up I was talkingabout earlier, is how do we make
this A as rock solid of a userexperience that we can for the
(23:21):
admins right?
In my opinion, the userexperience of the install and
setup is probably one of themost important things that a
Salesforce app can focus on aspart of the install.
If the admin installing itdoesn't have confidence, doesn't
(23:42):
trust it, they're not evengoing to begin to roll it out to
users.
They're going to lose thatconfidence.
They're going to say you knowwhat, it's not worth this.
Maybe it feels sketchy, likeyou were saying earlier, so you
really want to just build it, tobe stretching here by saying
(24:02):
being a delight to set up, butthat's kind of what you have to
aim for, totally.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I always say you have to make things stupid-proof,
because the user experience iseither going to your point
either to the admin directly,and they have the leg up and it
should be a fairly intuitiveexperience or it's going to like
either a marketing or anoperations or a sales team, and
for those folks it's a matter ofyou have to make it as bare
(24:34):
bones and someone who doesn'tunderstand the technical as
possible and again, just make itclick one, click two, click
three, click four, boom, you'redone.
And that is something that I do.
Like you said, admins are goingto immediately understand and
know I have to make it this wayor it's not going to get by and
it's not going to be successfulat all.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, and depending on you know the admins who are
listening to this and whatthey've set up.
You've probably come across inSalesforce it's something that
they're calling setup assistance.
Right where it's, you know,step one it's got a little bit
of like a heading or whateverand some text right, and then
step two and then, as youcomplete the steps, they get
(25:17):
checked right.
That's kind of the experienceor the paradigm that is popular
right now and in the latest appthat I put together and I
released it just a month ago isin that setup experience.
I actually like I'll querypermission sets to make sure
(25:40):
that you know the permission setfrom my app has actually been
assigned.
I will query, like Salesforcesites, to make sure a site was
created right, so it's.
It's not that the admin says,yes, I did this step and trust
me, right, my setup assistantlike queries as much as possible
and we'll tell the admin.
(26:01):
Hey, you know of four steps.
You missed step number three.
You have to go back and assignthis permission set.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
With that being said to, to the kind of idea of
someone may have missed a step.
We do everything in our powerto make these applications again
as user friendly as possible sothat we get the buy in we need,
so that it's used and it'sworthy of being in our orgs.
How are you, as the appdeveloper, building into your
(26:32):
process feedback and iterationdevelopment?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, you know when, when you're looking to build a
new app, right, ideally you have, you know, a first round of
test users or test companies whoare willing to, you know, help
you out by doing that initialtesting and providing that
feedback.
Right, and in those situationsit's usually like either Slack
(27:00):
or email conversations.
You're having directly withthose other teams, right, you're
staying in touch, right, andyou're getting that feedback,
taking it into consideration andit may may be making the
changes Right now, as you startscaling up and you go beyond
your, you know, initial I don'tknow five or 10 companies that
(27:21):
helped you starting off, right,that's where you can have either
in app links or things likethat.
That's, you're asking people toshare that feedback.
And there's there's probably abunch of other ways that I have
yet to discover on, you know,how can we again make it a
(27:41):
delight for the Salesforce adminto provide that feedback?
You know, ideally not takingthem out of Salesforce.
So it's an area that I myselfneed to keep growing into, but I
think there's, I think there'sa few options that are possible.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
That's fair Towards the end side of that design and
kind of develop or the creationof an app, the process of
creating an app, the biggestthing we get to.
We've gotten feedback, we'vefinally launched it.
We may have even made a coupleiterations to it and realized,
(28:22):
oh, there are things I didn'thave and you made those updates.
What are you doing or whatwould?
Again, this is all personalopinion related.
By no means are we saying thisis the way to do it and you have
to do it this way.
But for you, in your experience, how are you measuring whether
or not the app was a success?
(28:43):
So whether that is thefinancial side of it, but also
just the you're seeing peopleuse it.
How are you defining that I'vemade a positive impact and we've
gotten the buy in?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I mean, that's going to depend on each business or
each company or, in this case,each admin, right, some will
just measure hey, have peopleinstalled it and not removed it?
Right, if people are keeping itin their orgs, right, that's a
good thing.
Now it's nice to measurefinancial side.
Right, our user licenses goingup, or you know.
(29:19):
However, you're pricing it likeif that's continuing to grow,
that might be a success criteria.
It could just be.
And, like for the first fewapps that I released, this is
it's not a very high bar, butonce I started seeing other
people in the communityrecommend the things that I've
made to help others solve aproblem, for me that was like,
(29:42):
okay, perfect, like, not only doother people use it and like it
, but they're recommending it toother people Right now, there's
, there's no financial thing forthat, right.
But for me that's, you know, assomeone who's wanting to share
something and, you know, fill agap and help the community.
For me that was like, yeah,this is awesome that's.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
That's the kind of shining star.
And I agree with what you saidit's different for everyone
Because some of the apps youcreate they don't have to have a
price tag to them, they canjust be free to use for anyone
and everyone.
You've created an app that wasfree to use for anyone and being
able to see those reviews andsee those comments, and I
definitely agree that that feelsgood.
(30:29):
That feels like, hey, what I'mdoing is more than just me
putting something into the etherand then it just dies in the
black hole.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
So I get it completely.
I can't even believe I forgotto mention the app exchange
reviews.
But yeah, like getting thefirst couple of reviews for some
of the apps that I made, it'slike, oh cool, this is awesome.
Now, like the product marketersor product marketing managers
who are out there, you knowthat's just part of their
playbook of trying to getreviews so that you know it
(30:58):
helps people make the decisionright.
You're more likely to installan app in your org if it's got a
four or five star rating.
Then one who has a low rating,like a one or two stars right,
that's almost the kiss of death.
And then you know if you havezero ratings right, then it's
like well, no one said it's goodor bad, so am I taking a gamble
(31:21):
here?
Speaker 1 (31:22):
So, going back to something we had highlighted
earlier in the conversationaround your background, being
around integrations, a lot ofthese apps that you've created
were specific to just being ableto update and automate things
inside of the Salesforcenatively, but you've also
created some really coolapplications that specialize
(31:43):
around integrations.
So I'm curious for you how doyou handle, or how might a new
admin handle, creating anapplication that's specific
around connecting two systemsthat don't either natively talk
to each other or don't nativelytalk to each other?
Speaker 2 (32:02):
well, yeah, that one can get interesting when,
anytime, you have two differentsystems right and you're trying
to connect them in some way.
One of the first things that Iwill do is I'll look at the
developer documentation for bothand I'll see are there APIs?
(32:24):
Right, and with an API, thatmeans I have to have code or I
have to have something that willask for information or will
push information in Right, sosome other system is driving the
communication Right.
I'll look for APIs in both andI'll also look for web hooks in
(32:45):
both.
Right, and web hooks are wherethe system is pushing
information out saying, hey, anew record was created.
Go handle it however you want,or you know someone clicks on a
link or Some action took placethat we need to measure, right,
(33:07):
and then it's up to yourintegration to figure out what
to do with it.
Right, so I'll look for APIs andweb hooks and then you know,
depending on what's available,that will help me determine what
needs to be built and wheremight it need to run.
Right Now, sometimes anintegration can be completely
(33:29):
built inside of Salesforce,right, so, using Apex or using
some declarative things right,you can just kind of build it
all within Salesforce and itworks great.
Other times, right, it doesn'tmake sense for various reasons,
and you have to have yourintegration or your code running
(33:49):
on a computer in between thetwo systems, right?
One of the things you can thinkof there is like the Zappiers
and the work Hottos, right,those are like point and click
declarative integration toolsthat you know kind of do that,
and if a work Hottos or a Treyor a Zappier work and they fill
(34:11):
the you know they allow you tobuild that string between the
two tin cans then perfect, right, sometimes, though, it's not
possible to use any of thosetools because you know your use
case is just I don't want to saytoo unique, but it's just not
supported.
So then you actually have tobuild code that sits in between.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
I don't know if this is an accurate statement.
So keep me honest, because youare the professional and you're
the expert in this situation.
I am absolutely not as themarketer, but I've always
recommended and seen situationswhere it's a scalability issue
when I'm trying to push in somuch data from one system to the
other.
That's when I usually try to goaway from a Zappier, trey work,
(34:54):
hottos type solution and golook at again a more direct API
connection, because I've workedwith so many people who have
always said oh, I don't know howI feel about Zappier, because
I've heard from developers thatit's not good and we shouldn't
use it and we shouldn't lookinto it and yada, yada.
And I don't agree with thatbecause I do feel like, like you
(35:15):
said, they serve a purpose,they are wonderful tools, they
are click, not code and they cando a very good job.
But the second I'm starting todeal with like two, three, four
hundred records per day hour Ijust don't feel like that's
scalable.
So I'm curious your take onthat.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah, I mean I hate to be the consultant here, but
it depends, Like running inproduction.
Today I use Zappier myself fora lot of smaller scenarios,
right, and I've custom made somethings to, like you say, handle
that higher volume thing.
I think it's a fair assessmentthat when you start dealing in
(35:58):
large numbers of records, thatyou know maybe is happier and
some of those other tools aren'tthe best, and I don't yeah, I
guess it would depend on youknow how many records are you
processing?
You know at the same time,right, and you know it's also
(36:18):
going to depend on the API's andwhat you're trying to do.
But a lot of times, custom code, can you know?
Pull in all the informationfrom one system, pull in all the
information from another system, crunch the numbers and then
put the results somewhere, right, and that's the kind of thing
you're definitely not going tobe able to do so well on.
(36:41):
You know, zappier and thoseother those other tools Love
that.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
And I called out specifically just because I just
hear so many people just saynegative things about Zappier
and those solutions and I justwant to highlight that.
Well, yes, the purpose of thisepisode and the topic is to,
like, get people to learn appdevelopment and, yes, to build
apps and be more comfortablewith that.
There is a recognizable spacefor those solutions in the
(37:09):
ecosystem and they arecompletely valid to use and we
shouldn't dismiss them justbecause there's no code involved
.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Yeah, and I think you know, for the admins who are,
you know, trying to put togetherthe first app, or they're
trying to, you know, figure outwhat this might look like.
Like, yes, please, like, firstthing you should do is look at
the Zappiers and those othertools to see if you can
accomplish it through that.
Right, because then you don'thave to custom make it.
(37:40):
Right, it's a lot easier to getstarted and then you know, as
your business needs, or as yourideas needs, evolve and grow,
then you might you might growout of one tool and need to move
to another.
It's just a natural progressionof any kind of app, right, yeah
(38:01):
, that can apply to even, like,the language that you're using
to custom code something, or thetools that you're using to
support your code.
Like, there's, there's so many,so many things that can come
into play as you start scalingand, you know, rip and replace
or rewriting things orrebuilding things.
(38:21):
It's just a supernatural thingas part of, you know, an app's
progression.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Yeah, and it is interesting to see kind of all
you have to do from a handlingof the data.
Like you said, you need to makesure that you can push, because
one of the apps that you'vecreated that I personally love
is the.
You create an application thatwas a zoom integration for for
par dot specifically, and theintegration that's native is
(38:52):
wonderful.
It does what a lot of peopleneed to do, but there's a level
of what your application doesthat offers the ability for
people to go in and then use themarketing automation emails,
those email templates, andautomatically connect between
Salesforce without the need ofan automation rule or engagement
(39:13):
studio program or whatever, andit's just so boom boom, boom
done.
But to do that you had to beable to call out from zoom, go
into a middleware, fix the data,clean it up to make sure that
Salesforce could intake it andthen push that to Salesforce, so
there's a lot of things thatare being done from handling
that data.
(39:33):
On the other end, though, ofjust pushing the data from one
system to the other, a lot ofthings we have to worry about
for those integrations and justother apps within Salesforce is
around data security andcompliance.
So high level.
What are some of the bestpractices and things new admins
and app developers need to keepin mind when it comes to
(39:57):
ensuring their data iscompliance and secure?
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, data security is a very complex topic and we
could probably do like two orthree podcasts on it at least.
But the short version and whatI've tried to do with all of the
apps that I've made is I don'twant to hold on to anyone else's
(40:25):
data, I will process it, I willfinish processing it and then I
forget it and, because I forgotit, there's nothing for me to
backup, there's nothing for meto protect.
It makes security a lot easierto talk about when I can say I
(40:46):
don't have your data.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Calling that out, and this is from a dumb, dumb
perspective like my own, becauseI didn't realize.
When you said that to me yearsago, I kept thinking what do you
mean?
If it gets it?
It's in Salesforce, like you'repulling it from that one system
to Salesforce.
What do you mean if you forgotit?
You're specifically saying myapp that is processing and
pushing it.
Salesforce it is.
It's a one and done.
(41:08):
It happens within seconds andthen it's gone.
Salesforce sure keeps therecord and process and it has
the last updated by integrationuser in its audit log so you can
know that your integration didsomething.
But your integration isn'tsaving any of that data.
So there's no risk of an emailaddress or secure information
(41:30):
getting caught in the wronghands, right?
Speaker 2 (41:33):
No, you know the the mentality and approach of I
don't want to store, or you knowI don't want to keep your data.
That works really well.
When you're looking to build anintegration that sits off of
the Salesforce platform, right,for an admin getting started,
likely that's not where you'regonna make your very first thing
, right, likely you're gonnaAutomate something inside of
(41:56):
Salesforce.
You know whether it's along thelines of, like, automated
opportunity contact roles orwhatever your use cases, right.
But what's really nice aboutbuilding on the Salesforce
platform is that Salesforce isthe one that is storing that
data.
They're the ones that have allthe agreements, all the security
Certifications.
(42:16):
Right, your app, it's justworking with data.
That's already there and it'syou know.
If you're not moving it out,then again, like you as a
company can say I Don't have anyof that customer data, it's all
inside of your Salesforce org.
Yes, my code is in yourSalesforce org, it's working
(42:37):
with it.
But again, I know the Royal, Iguess.
Right, I Don't have it, I don'thave to, I don't want to say I
don't have to worry about itbecause you still should.
But you know there's nothing,nothing there for Security risk.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Yeah, and that's, I think, a good call out, because
I feel like Compliance and datasecurity, especially as AI is
becoming more prevalent in theecosystem, I feel like they are
becoming buzzwords that peoplehear and then they get really
anxious and then they but theydon't realize, like, the true
meaning of how is data secure orhow is data compliant.
(43:20):
So just being able to say, yeah, we're manipulating this in
your org, but nothing is leavingyour org.
So I like that, that highlight,so that you can still build
apps, you can still build reallycool things and solutions in
the ecosystem and not have tofeel like you're gonna get Sued
by whoever you're is buying yourapp.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Yeah, and I mean, you know, depending on the thing
that you're putting together,right, it could just be a
visualization app, right, that'ssomething that's very easily
packaged and deployed and youknow, like, you're not even
processing the data, you're justshowing it, maybe in a
different you know, maybe it's adifferent lightning web
(44:02):
component that makes it easierto look at.
You know two different things,right, there's, there's a ton of
different ways and Solutionsthat you can build and deploy,
so yeah, that makes a lot ofsense.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
That makes a lot of sense.
So, with all that being said,we're nearing the end of our
time and of our conversation.
It's been a lovely conversationabout this very interesting and
needed topic.
I have two wrap-up questions.
The first is the first of themis specifically around the
(44:38):
future of Developing, the futureof that in the Salesforce
ecosystem and again we couldprobably talk about Talk two
more episodes, specific aroundthe future of developing apps in
the future of Coding anddeveloping inside of Salesforce,
but again keeping a high level.
I'm curious your thoughts andinsights around how do you think
(45:01):
the future looks for peoplecoming into the developer space
with the introduction of AI andhow that's going to help but
also hurt people beingdevelopers in the ecosystem.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah, there's.
You know, with any newtechnology, the first I don't
know mainstream conversation ishey, new tech X is gonna take
all our jobs.
And that has been said a lot youmight have heard that and
that's never really how it goes,right, you might have a few
(45:38):
extreme examples and we've seenthat in the news already where
you know some companies overseashave, you know, eliminated
their workforce or like a giantchunk of it, hoping to replace
with AI, and you know it'sprobably gonna crash and burn.
But hey, you know, as a pioneer, those are some of the chances
that you take.
The way that I see AI anddevelopers, it's, it's gonna be
(46:03):
one of those scenarios of youknow, ai won't replace your
development job.
A developer using AI will.
Right, and I think that's gonnabe true for a lot of different.
You know industries and jobprofessions Right, you have a
new tool that's gonna help yoube more efficient right, you got
.
(46:23):
You have to get on board.
Right, you have to learn how touse it.
Right, and you can use it insmall ways, right.
Myself, the way that I use AI's, I use github's co-pilot right,
as I'm writing code, IBasically use it as a very fancy
auto complete.
Right, and as I'm writing lineby line, I have it.
(46:46):
You know, auto suggest eithercompleting that line or maybe
it'll auto complete like threeor four lines, a little block,
right, that's the way that I useit, not to say that that's the
way that people have to.
Right, there's lots of examplesof people auto generating like
an entire program and while it'scool or at least while it is
(47:08):
cool from a capabilityperspective Right, you still
have to try to read andunderstand the code, right?
So even admins who are lookingat someone else's apex that's in
their org and you know they'rethey're reading it to try to
understand it.
Anyone who's reading code,their brain just naturally
(47:33):
thinks that what is written iscorrect.
So it's really hard totroubleshoot or to identify
where a problem might be.
Right, you're trusting thatwhat AI has created is gonna
work, so it can be tricky.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
I Completely agree with that, and someone on one of
our previous episodes aroundwhere we talked a lot about AI,
kind of called out exactly and Ilove the the that were
reiterating that and it's.
You can't just take it and say,cool, this is good, and then
walk away.
You have to.
To your point, the person whoknows AI is gonna replace the
(48:15):
person who doesn't know AI,because it's a matter of it
completed for you, but then youstill have to check, you still
have to proofread.
So the same concept, for we hadtalked about AI in the world of
marketing for content andGenerative AI.
In that regard, same principlesapply for the coding side, but
I'm curious your opinion on it.
How should Developers andadmins be looking at that code
(48:40):
and be testing and be thinkingabout what level of confidence
should you have?
I mean it's reviewing the codeyou've created historically, so
shouldn't that be good enough?
Speaker 2 (48:51):
I mean it might be right, and you know when we're,
when we're talking about theEinstein code capabilities,
right, foundationally it's gonnahave a bunch of code samples or
whatever in the base model,right, so it's gonna already
have, you know, the vastmajority of the knowledge, and
(49:15):
I'm doing air quotes, right, soit's gonna start off with that,
right.
And then if you have code inyour org, right, it's supposed
to look at it and help it shapesome of its answers.
Now I think it'll beinteresting, you know, as it
gets higher adoption, right, andor it might have been around
(49:36):
for a long time that have awhole bunch of garbage code.
I think it'll be interesting tosee.
You know, is the generative AIcapabilities smart enough to,
like, lower the priority orDe-prioritize some of the
garbage stuff and, you know,give more to the nicer, newer
things?
(49:56):
So I think it.
I think it'll be interestinghow you know all that comes
together.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
Well, that's all really fantastic to hear.
With that being said, we're atour final question and you
probably know, because you'velistened to the show, but I had
the same general question foreveryone at the very end because
I'm lazy.
No, I just think it's a veryhelpful question For people in
the ecosystem.
But as you've gone through yourjourney, we've heard your
(50:26):
amazing story of getting startedin the ecosystem and what
you've done and whatapplications you've created
Throughout that whole journey.
What is your one regret thatyou've had that you wish you
could go back and say I shouldhave done this differently?
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Looking back, what I would do differently is I would
get into the sales forceecosystem, like as soon as I can
, right, whether it's usergroups, whether it's attending
Conferences, and I know there'scosts associated with that,
right.
But if you know, if you're anadmin looking to grow and you
know really looking to Evolve,right, you might want to
(51:07):
consider a personal expense ofyou know Attending these things
to help accelerate your growthso that you can get some, you
know, newer and Maybe moreexciting opportunities.
Now, I recognize not everyone'sin the position to be able to
do that right.
So you know, maybe you try Somemore creative ways to get your
(51:30):
company to participate, maybeyou split costs, I don't know.
There's there's a bunch ofthings there, but again, just
getting out in the community alot more, I think that's
something that I would.
I would do differently.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
It's something that a lot of people have said it just
in general, whether it's theirregret or whether it is their
kind of big shining star ahamoment, but it is interesting to
hear from from all facets, notjust the Marketing or sales
background folk, it's, it'severyone.
It's the developer, because thedeveloper community inside of
(52:03):
the ecosystem is so extensiveand it's so rich with talent and
insights and amazing stories.
So I I love that say call outbecause it, like you said, so
many of us Don't feel like weneed to join the community.
Sales force is just a tool thathelps us complete our job and
(52:23):
we can call it a day and go hometo our families and Do whatever
.
But there is such a value inAfterworks done, meeting up with
these people in the community,whether it's through zoom or
Webinar or whatever tool you usefor meeting, virtual meetups or
whether it's in person.
They're so valuable.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
You know other thing over the last two weeks I've
been listening to the book themom test.
It's a really fascinating bookon, you know, asking the right
questions to validate if youridea is Actually a good one,
right?
And the premise is you know, ifI go ask my mom if this
(53:06):
business idea is a good idea,whether or not she really thinks
it is, she's gonna tell me it's, it's amazing and I'll do great
, right.
So how can you ask certainquestions so that even your mom
doesn't lie to you?
Right?
It might not be on purpose, butyou know, if I had some of that
(53:27):
book knowledge, you know, five,ten years ago, I think it
really would have shaped eithersome of the apps that I've made
differently, or I don't know ifit would have tempered some of
the ideas, or I don't know.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
But I mean that's a good call out because and I feel
like you get that a little bitin the community because
everyone wants to be sosupportive, but you have to find
the right group of people towho are going to to your point,
not just tell you what you wantto hear and not just be like, oh
my gosh.
That's an amazing idea.
You should run with it and theywill be brutally honest with
you and be like hey, three othercompanies, are we doing this
(54:05):
idea or you need to flush it outa little bit more to really
find the value.
So I like that the kind of idea.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
Yeah, so yeah, it's the mom test.
I think it's a really greatbook.
I'm gonna be listening it to it.
Listening to it a couple moretimes to help my brain absorb it
.
Totally, I love that.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
Well, I think that's a wonderful call out, that's a
wonderful recommendation for newadmins to get more involved and
like rethink truly.
It are the things they'recreating and adding to the
ecosystem, truly adding value.
So Thank you so much, adam, fortaking the time to join us.
I really enjoyed your story andhopefully the listeners can
reach out to you directly ifthey have any questions.
Speaker 2 (54:47):
Of course this is.
This has been fun.
Thanks a lot.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
And that concludes another episode of admins of
tomorrow.
A Special thanks to our guest,adam, for sharing their journey
in the ecosystem and providing afew tips and tricks on how new
admins can find their way in theworld of Salesforce app
development.
It was an absolute blast tohear his perspectives on how new
admins can think about creatingnew apps and solutions and
Salesforce.
I Personally enjoyed how wewere able to talk about how to
(55:24):
create an app that was not onlyable to solve challenges but
also make it user friendly foradmins with a click not code
mindset, like myself.
If you'd like to learn moreabout data cloud or becoming a
Salesforce developer, there'sstill time to register for
Trailblazer DX.
Go to salesforcecom forwardslash trailblazer DX to register
(55:45):
now or sign up to watch onSalesforce plus.
Thank you all again for takingthe time to listen and support
the podcast.
If you have any feedback,questions or topic suggestions,
as always, we'd love to hearfrom you, so don't hesitate to
connect with us on LinkedIn,twitter or email us at info at
admins of tomorrow com.
Again, if you are someone youknow would like to be on the
(56:05):
show or would like to givesomeone a shout out, please go
to our website.
Admins of tomorrow, commforward, slash, share your
thoughts and fill out our formto be on the show.
And finally, if you enjoyedthis episode, please don't
forget to subscribe and leave areview.
Every review and every listenmeans the absolute world to us
and helps us continue to growand build out the show For a
wider audience.
(56:26):
So please share with yourfellow Trailblazers and listen
to us on Apple podcast, spotifyor wherever you listen to
podcasts.
Once again, I'm Jay Catilano,your host, signing off.
We appreciate you for listeningto.
Admins of tomorrow Trailblazingthe next generation.
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