Thriving as a Non-Profit Salesforce Admin

Join us as we dive into the journey of Mark Jones, a Salesforce admin with a profound dedication to nonprofit organizations. Mark's evolution from a passionate nonprofit worker to an acclaimed 10-time certified Salesforce professional is nothing short of remarkable. He embodies the essence of community and philanthropy, leading by example through initiatives like his local user group and the founding of Automation Dreamin'. His insightful narrative promises to shine a light on the unique challenges and triumphs of navigating the Salesforce ecosystem within the nonprofit realm.

As we chat with Mark, his experiences bring to life the 'ohana' spirit of the Salesforce community, emphasizing the importance of hands-on learning and the power of connection. This episode serves as a testament to the idea that the Salesforce ecosystem is far more than a collection of professionals—it's a tight-knit family that champions ongoing education and mutual upliftment.

Mark is a 10x Certified Salesforce Professional working as a Salesforce Consultant for Time Technology. Mark is the leader of the Newcastle upon Tyne Salesforce User Group and speaks regularly at various community events and conferences. An avid lover of Process Automation, specifically Flow, Mark is also one of the founders of Automation Dreamin’, a Trailblazer Community Conference focused on all things Process Automation. Mark also runs two Salesforce blogs, the Ragamuffin Admin and the Flow Architect.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/thisismarkjones/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Good morning and good afternoon.
My name is Jacob Catalano andwelcome back to another episode
of Admins of Tomorrow.
The month of April has come andgone and with a new month
brings new guests and newinspiring stories from our
Admins of Tomorrow.
But before we dive into ourtopic this week, I want to thank
everyone for their patience, aswe've been taking the time to

(00:37):
figure out what our episodecadence looks like and,
ultimately, what next steps forthe show looks like.
It's been an incredible journeyso far, sharing all these
amazing admin stories with ouraudience, and we can't wait to
evolve the show going into thesecond half of 2024.
So, with that said, we're intothe month of May and with that
comes conference season being infull swing.

(00:58):
So don't forget to register forall the amazing upcoming
Salesforce events, knowing thatwe'd love to take the show on
the road.
So be on the lookout for us atSalesforce Connections at the
end of May and Texas Dreaming onthe last week of May, going
into June.
We'd love to see you there.
So don't forget.
If you'd like to get in contactwith us, reach out to us on our

(01:18):
website at adminsoftomorrowcom.
Forward slash, share yourthoughts, reach out to us, let
us know which events you'regoing to and where you'd like to
see us go.
So, taking conferences aside,let's dive into our episode.
So today we sit down with MarkJones, a Salesforce admin with a
focus on nonprofits.
I've said this before, but fromour very first episode of the

(01:41):
show, I've always wanted toshare stories of admins with
unique backgrounds but inspiringstories, and this doesn't
disappoint.
I've always had a special placein my heart for nonprofit
admins because in my experience,those kind of admins who are
working with nonprofits smallmom and pop shops they're some

(02:02):
of the most selfless people youcan meet in the ecosystem.
Ultimately, finding ways togive back not only to the
Salesforce community but to thewider world is something that
just doesn't get highlightedenough, and our time with Mark
gives us the chance to do justthat, from starting a user group
to helping lead the automationdream and user event.

(02:22):
This is a wonderful story ofsomeone who just naturally wants
to give back to the community.
So, without further ado, let'smeet Mark.
Mark is a 10-time certifiedSalesforce professional working
as a Salesforce consultant forTime Technology.
Mark is the leader of theNewcastle upon Time Salesforce
user group and speaks regularlyat various community events and

(02:43):
conferences.
An avid lover of processautomation, specifically Flow,
mark is also one of the foundersof Automation Dreamin', a
trailblazer community conferencefocused on all things process
automation.
Mark also runs two Salesforceblogs the Ragamuffin Admin and
the Flow Architect.
So let's not waste any moretime and dive on in fantastic.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Well, I really appreciate you for taking the
time to jump on in and join metoday.
I know there's a little bit of atime difference for us, but I
appreciate you take some time inthe evening to especially your
fun Friday evening to sit downwith me and kind of talk about
your journey through theecosystem.
So before we dive in to kind ofyour journey, you are a frequent

(03:44):
listener of the show, which I'mreally appreciative of, so you
kind of know that we we diveinto the story but we also kind
of have a theme that we goaround and talk about.
So this week I want us to reallytalk through not only just your
life and your experiencesbecause I'm really interested to
learn more from what I alreadyknow but also you specialize a

(04:04):
lot in the nonprofit space.
So I feel like there are a lotof misconceptions out there that
admins have around eitherworking for a nonprofit or
specializing in in PSP.
So, with that being said, Iwant us to kind of talk through
like how admins can thrive withbeing in the nonprofit space.

(04:25):
But before you go into that,I'd love for you to quickly
introduce yourself to theaudience and kind of share a
little bit of background aboutyourself.
How did you get started workingwith Salesforce, with
nonprofits?
How did you then become sopassionate to create all the
amazing blogs and resources thatyou have now coined and created

(04:46):
?
Cool?

Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, sure.
So, like pretty much most ofthe non-profit admins who will
be listening to this, I got mystart in the ecosystem as an
external admin.
I was previously working atanother non-profit where I was
doing a non-salesforce role andbasically came to the end of the

(05:08):
contract and, as is often sosometimes often the case here in
the uk, it came to the pointwhere the contract was coming up
at the end of march, then tothe next financial year, which
starts for us in april, and uh,basically they took the employee
, turned around to me, said wedon't have a space for you
anymore at the end of thefinancial year.

(05:29):
So I had to start looking foranother job and, approaching the
job I was looking for, I waslooking for, again, non-profit
roles.
So I've been in the non-profitspace and the education space in
working in usually supportroles, whether those are like
technician or officeadministrative roles.

(05:51):
I've been in the nonprofit spacesince I pretty much left school
at the age of like 16 in termsof that, and I'm 36 now, so just
about the turn.
So nonprofit space, sucheducation, for about 20 years
Wow.
So that's quite a long time.
I've never really been outsideof that, even though I work now

(06:12):
in consulting, which we'llsurely get onto in a bit.
But the role I went for, whichfirst got me into Salesforce at
the time there was nothingsalesforce in the job
description at all and a coupleof days before my interview the
company got in touch with me andwent oh, we've just purchased

(06:32):
salesforce and do you knowanything about it?
And I gave as much of an honestresponse as I can which was um,
not, not technically, becauseI've not, I've not used it
however uh.
However, I have used crm systemsin the past.
I'd use things like hubspot andbespoke ones in the past and I'd

(06:53):
also, in my role I just left, Iwas an admin assistant person
on their crm system, which wastotally bespoke uh.
So I had some crm experiencebefore that um, but the time my
uh my late father, who's nolonger with us was working for
one of salesforce's um biggestclients uh out of the uk as a uh

(07:15):
his his role was essentially hewas a like a security layout uh
person where he would go aroundto like different stadiums
across like the uk and intoireland and basically plan out
where all of their securitysetup would go and they use
salesforce and they were stillto this day, one of salesforce's
biggest clients in the world.

(07:36):
So I asked my dad it goes, doyou, do you know anything about
this?
I know you use it and he pulleda few strings and got me able
to see the back end ofSalesforce.
I didn't see anything from theclient side.
I didn't see anything on thefront end.

(07:58):
I just saw setup in SalesforceClassic and that was my
introduction to Salesforce goingthrough and setup up as much as
I could before a job interviewand um managed to took my way
into a role, and that was how Igot started, almost eight years
ago.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
That is insane.
So what then, took you fromsaying I'm, I'm planning, I'm
interviewing for this job, or Iwork with this company, and they
say, hey, we need salesforce.
You know enough to get by andget the job.
What, then, was that reasonthat made you say, huh, I'm
gonna become a champion in thisecosystem.
I want to be as smart aspossible and be the smartest

(08:41):
person in the room for what weneed to know yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
So for me, that area, for everyone that probably
looks slightly, slightlydifferent.
Who does does this.
And but for me, because I Igrew up in the, in the northeast
of england, and, uh, thesalesforce ecosystem isn't as um
, noisy, shall we say, assomewhere like london or another
big big city outside of the uk.

(09:05):
Um, you know, the north face ishistorically a lot more insular
.
You're kind of we often keepourselves to ourselves, so you
know you'll go into work, you'lldo your job, you'll go home and
you'll spend time with yourfamily and your friends, but you
won't necessarily see, youdon't see as much movement in
terms like the communitypresence.
And for me, after being in theecosystem for like a couple of

(09:27):
years and I started findingthere was more stuff that I was
kind of trying to figure out,and I was got to the position of
going, well, if I'm trying tofigure this stuff out for myself
, surely there's going to besomebody else who's trying to do
the same.
And I basically started lookinginto ways okay, how can we
create some kind of like a groupor some kind of presence in the

(09:50):
area, uh, to help other peoplein the same, in the same or a
similar board.
So I basically started lookingat the true version community
groups, uh, program, uh and, asI say, this was, say, a couple
years.
It was actually three years andI started looking at this into
2019, so I'd been in for alittle while and before I did

(10:10):
that and started the user groupthat I lead in newcastle, upon
time in early 2020, due to somepersonal stuff that went on
during 2019, uh so, butbasically, yeah, for me it was a
case of you know if you know,if there's nothing up here for

(10:32):
for us start something andthings kind of grow from there.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
I love that mentality .
To that end, I am curiousaround pivoting to.
We talked about your journey inthe Salesforce community and
kind of what you have done togrow that market.
I want to talk a little bitabout your work within
nonprofits and how you have beenable to work as a consultant

(11:02):
not just as like an admin forlarge companies but for smaller
shops for nonprofits.
I to be able to specialize alittle bit in the nonprofit
service cloud and to be able tohave those insights again the
topic of this episode.
I really want to kind of diveinto a little bit around how
admins can thrive for you.

(11:23):
Knowing that your first job andyour background was in that
space and they said, hey, we'reabout to open up Salesforce.
I would like to kind of diveinto how do you think new admins
should navigate learning thatsystem and finding opportunities
to grow with that system ofwhether it be sales cloud for

(11:46):
nonprofits or within NPSPdirectly.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
Yeah, yeah, sure.
So I think kind of the one ofthe first places to start would
be stuff like Trailhead.
You know, trailhead wasn't as Ididn't know Trailhead was a
thing until about three yearsinto my journey as a sales
professional.
But that's a really good placeto start in terms of that side

(12:11):
of things.
But if I was to kind of pivotaway from the Trailhead stuff
and some certifications andthings like that, which are all
good, the thing that reallyhelped me, as simplistic as it
sounds, was just get hold of adev org or get into a sandbox
and just try stuff.

(12:33):
You know, think of use casesthat you can use to benefit the
nonprofit that you're in and tryand build it and try and see if
you can get it to work.
You know, as somebody from theNorth East, one of the things
that we often would say is, likeour best teachers are usually
experienced.
So you know, just having timethat you can carve out to go

(12:57):
away and learn stuff, whichisn't always easy.
To be fair, you know, you'vealways got like stuff like
deadlines, tasks that you'reworking on, and if're in the
non-profit space, you might bein a similar position to what I
was, but I was first time I wasdoing this, doing the part-time.
You know, I didn't have afull-time job in salesforce
until, uh, until 2021.

(13:18):
Um, even though I did stuffoutside of work in within the
community, I I did volunteer andhelp other groups.
So, as one of our listeners,you might be in a similar
position where you're not evendoing it full-time.
You might be a mother with ayoung family who's doing work

(13:40):
part-time and looking after thefamily the rest of the time, or
some other circumstance.
But having time to build thatup, your knowledge up, is so, so
key, and I do honestly believethat a lot of people tend to
learn the most by by building upthat experience.
Um, also, alongside that, youyou're trying to build up

(14:04):
connections in the community.
It's okay.
You know the amount of times Iwill go to somebody that I know
in the community and say, like,message them on LinkedIn or
WhatsApp or turns up to acommunity group and ask somebody
a question, uh, or just turn upto a session that I'm
interested in and and have alisten.
Um, you know, getting to thosegroups are so important.

(14:25):
So there's like a non-profitgroup in your area.
Those are really, really goodto go to uh, and there's loads
of non-profit groups in inacross the world.
Um, you know.
So those are kind of the kindof the.
I guess the point, the threemain ways I would say is kind of
like really helpful to help youlearn.
You know, like time on trip ontrailhead, you know just time

(14:47):
playing around in salesforce.
You know, if you do it safelyin the dev org or sandbox, you
know the worst that's going tohappen is you're going to have
to delete the sandbox and createa new one in this place, you
know.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
So nothing wrong with that, certainly, and also
community connections, so key Ilove the highlight of community
connections and I usually liketo dive into community towards
the end of the episode justbecause it's like the big
highlighting thing to kind oflead up to.
But your story and yourbackground is so interesting

(15:18):
around how you've been able tofoster and develop the community
.
We talked about it a little bitago and everything you do comes
back to that.
So I kind of want to ask you,why do you believe the community
is so important?

Speaker 3 (15:31):
because we've we mentioned community a lot and
just in like the few, like 10minutes we've been chatting yeah
sure, so like to me, I I don'thonestly think I would
necessarily be where I am todaywithout uh being involved in the
in the community.
So if I talk about just from apractical sense, the last two
jobs I've had have come fromconnections within the community

(15:53):
.
You know, and uh, and there'sso so much benefit in that
you've got such a wide array ofarray of knowledge, uh, and also
just some of the people just interms like just from even a
personal perspective.
Some of the most recent bestfriends I've built up are from
the community.
So like, for example, I had abit of a rough spell last year

(16:19):
for personal reasons.
I was diagnosed with a chronickidney disease last year and one
of the first people I went andwent and talked to about it was
somebody from the trailblazercommunity.
And you know to me, you knowI've, you know, and to kind of
pivoted into something a bitmore in the personal life as

(16:40):
well, I, I'm a, I'm a christian,go to church here in the uk.
Uh, so I I come from a bit of abackground where you're kind of
that community, kind of uhmentality was fostered in me
since, you know, I was a toddlerand just here walking, you know
.
So for me it's it's a naturalkind of thing to want that

(17:02):
community, want that connectionwith other people and in terms
of the professional space I'venot seen anything quite like
that outside of the sales forcespace, you know, and you know
there is other groups likemicrosoft has a, has a thriving
community from what I understand.
But I've never quiteexperienced anything like the
sales force trailblazercommunity.

(17:24):
So for me it became just anatural kind of byproduct to
give back Because realistically,if I think about it at this
position of time, I'm in thebest kind of set of jobs I've
ever had in my entire lifecoming into Salesforce.
I'm also earning the bestsalary that I've ever had coming
into Salesforce ecosystem.

(17:45):
So many people have given mesuch opportunities to get to
travel around the world and doall this.
So to me this is a naturalthing to say, to want to give
back and to try and help otherskind of achieve something
similar if they want to go tothat same kind of level.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
I really like that call out though around.
Ultimately it gets back to theohana, air quote mentality.
I'm doing air quotes, peoplecan't see me, I I think always
that's so cliche, but then Ihear stories like that and
realize it really is what youmake it.
It can either be the ohana, orit can just be a group of people
you get a beer with, or itcould be literally just that

(18:28):
rando guy I'm getting quicktroubleshooting help from.
It is what you make it.
So to that extent, knowing thatone being in a small area of
the UK is limiting you a littlebit, you're in nonprofits, which
is also now limiting you, andyou are also kind of around the

(18:49):
more automation admin, whichit's not very niche into one
cloud.
It's just kind of a little bitof everything.
So all these things kind ofputting you in like this crazy
niche zone, what were you ableto do to not only create your
own thing but then find othercommunities for you to get that

(19:10):
starting point?

Speaker 3 (19:11):
yeah.
So I mean for me, honestly, thestarting that for me it was the
starting point, going whatisn't something here that's
built, let's build, look tobuild something.
But the process of gettingthere wasn't overnight, uh.
So like, for example, like whenI first started thinking about
it, one of the very first thingsI did because I had never been

(19:31):
to a community event fromsalesforce or anything like that
um wow, before I startedlooking into this.
So one of the first things Idid was actually go to london's
calling uh, which is like uh,which you, somebody, somebody
who listens might have heard of,but it's Europe's biggest
trailblazer community conference, which happens in, ironically
enough, london every single year.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
And yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
So I went there in 2019 and you know, and I got to
meet some people there, peoplewho I've built up relationships
over over the years, um, and youknow, even, for example, like
one of the the very first peoplewhose session I went to, a
london's calling I was at aconference with just this just

(20:16):
this past weekend at the time ofrecording, and we got a new
uber back together to to theairport together because we were
flying out at similar times.
So you know, that's like fiveyears difference between the two
, almost uh, because london'scall that time was in march and
it's it's now in like june orjuly, so you're almost five

(20:36):
years to kind of almost a dayI'm sitting in a taxi with one
of the very first speakers Iwent to listen to uh at london's
calling uh, and for me, I juststarted build up connections
from there, like I built up aconnection with uh, if it's okay
, the name drop of christinemarshall from salesforce ben uh,

(20:58):
she's kind of been.
That was one of my kind ofalmost like idols in the
ecosystem going through, becauseyou know she came as an admin
startup of her own blog thatworks with sales sales was ben
uh and to me.
She was always someone I lookedup to and you know I met her
for the first time in london'scalling back in 2019 as well, uh

(21:20):
, and she was one of the peoplewho really inspired me to start
pushing the community stuff.
And I got to a point againtrying to make things a little
bit personal, because it becameI didn't start my community
group officially until 2020 andthat was because during the

(21:42):
course of that year I ended uphaving quite a relatively
serious mental.
That year I ended up having aquite a relatively serious
mental health episode and endedup not being in the position
where I was in the right mentalspace to do that.
So it took me until probablyabout the october of 2019 before
I kind of really started topick that back up.

(22:02):
And that was after going to aconference which doesn't happen
much anymore, but it was thefirst conference in the
ecosystem I spoke at and it wasa conference in Cambridge over
the UK called Inspire East and,to be fair, it was the first
time I did a talk in in terms ofSalesforce I'd be, I spoke.
I've been speaking, doingpublic speaking since I was like

(22:24):
16 as well, but I hadn't beendoing a talk in the context I
was doing it before, compared toSalesforce, is quite different.
So I went there for the firsttime, didn't know anybody.
I'm a massive introvert so Iwas very, very nervous to talk
to people.
And I met some really greatpeople there, people I keep in

(22:45):
touch with to this day uh, andyou know they.
So a lot of them probably don'teven necessarily fully
understand how significant theirkind of uh impact was on me at
that time.
You know, coming out of havinglike kind of one of the worst
years of my life mentally andcoming out five months after

(23:08):
that conference running ourfirst user group event.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
That's fantastic.
That's so cool.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't want to makeassumptions incorrectly, but I
mean, how were you able to whenyou were going through that
rough point?
How were the connections youhad made from London's calling
and all these events, how wereyou able to use these groups as
your not just personal or sorryprofessional support system, as

(23:33):
your personal support system aswell, or sorry professional
support system, but as yourpersonal support system as well?

Speaker 3 (23:40):
Yeah, yeah.
So maybe, like for the people Ikept in touch with at that time
, I saw them I didn't keep intouch with because at that time
again, I was very guilty ofdoing what a lot of people do
and kind of almost kind of likecelebritizing some of the folks
in Salesforce.
So, you're like for some ofthem.
I didn't speak to them for likeanother couple of years or so
because of, like I was like well, they're up here, I'm like down

(24:02):
here you know, uh, so, but forthose I did keep in touch with,
it was so largely simply caseslike talking to them outside,
offline and talking like for forlinkedin messages or twitter or
, uh, you know what.
What's up for those I did havelike numbers of and just talk to

(24:23):
them and just like, as straightas it sounds, not talking
you're talking about salesforcestuff that I was interested in
or and stuff that was happeningat work.
I was, you know, away from allthe stuff that was going on.
Personally, it was, you know,oftentimes.
Sometimes people will say like,if they're having like a real

(24:45):
stressful work time, thatgetting away from work was kind
of like it's the thing thathelped them.
For me, in a sense, essentially, was the opposite, you know, so
talk to people that coulddistract me away from all of the
stuff I was worried about athome.
Yeah, and focusing on stuff todo with salesforce and like
having conversations around likempsb.
Like the organization I workedin at the time, uh, didn't use

(25:11):
mpsb, despite being a non-profit, so talking to people about
that goes and asking them howdoes, or?
So so what, what do you mean?
Like, what is this thing calledcustomizable rollouts?
What?
What is that?
You know, and uh going throughand uh getting pointers on on
how to get hold of mpsp andlearn that, and those were quite

(25:32):
, quite good and quite quitehelpful to keep in, keep in
touch with those people and thatalso grew as I got more
involved in the community.
So, like 2021 was a real pivotin terms of that.
So, like 2021, after the you'rethe, the rough year that was
2020 for everybody.
Um, I spoke at non-profitdreaming for the first time and

(25:53):
I made a connection with uh,with withys, who's a Salesforce
MVP, who you might know of andsome of our listeners might know
of.
But Melissa became kind of oneof the go-to people for myself
fairly quickly and she alsobecame kind of like one of those
people who pushed me and stuff.

(26:15):
So I will sometimes make a bitof a joke if I'm in a, in a
session that melissa's around atand say it's almost like it's
melissa's fault in air quotesthat I'm as present as I am,
because melissa pushed me tokind of get involved in stuff
like the salesforce, uh, the oldcommunity commons program, or

(26:37):
to start putting out stuff likemy blog and stuff like that.
It was like it was Melissa.
The round conversation was whereyou should be writing all of
this stuff down and put this outsomewhere.
You know people could benefitso much from the knowledge that
you're picking up or the thingsthat you're interested in, just
randomly trying put that stuffout there.
And that's one of the bigthings about being in the

(26:58):
communities having having peoplearound you who can, who can
push you in a good in a good wayyeah it's the, it's the
constant build-up that is done,like you said, in a good way, in
a polite way, it's not in athere's no malicious intent.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
There's no.
I want to see you fail.
Go put out there, embarrassyourself.
It's all coming from a place ofpositivity and a desire to see
other people around you grow,and I really really like that
kind of unintentionalrecommendation of like finding
someone in the ecosystem who canact as a mentor or, at the very

(27:37):
least, act as a catalyst forgood.
I tell people at the usergroups I go to and they ask me
like how I don't have the certsor I don't have this, but I've
done all this work and I've donethese projects and I want to
talk about these topics.
Build a blog, build a website,build something to get your
voice out there, even if no onelistens to it, or even just if

(27:59):
one person listens to it.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
you have good insights and it's just about how
do you get that message outthere to the wider ecosystem
exactly, yeah, and you know,just kind of picking up back on,
one of the things you say wasthat you know, even if just one
person reads it, you're like oneof the things people ask me
about when it comes to like myblogs and stuff like goes, you
know, and I'll, I'll, I'll soundlike very ignorant at this

(28:21):
point, like I don't reallynecessarily honestly keep a
track too much of the analyticsas such.
I, you know, I obviously youknow I'm not a marketer by, by
trade or anything like that, andwhile I do understand the
importance of that for me, thementality has always been you
know, you know and it soundsalmost flippant a little bit
like I don't necessarily carewhether it helps one person or a

(28:43):
thousand people.
You're in my, in my head,you're a thousand, a thousand is
a thousand one.
So as long as it's helping oneperson, it's worth doing, and
you know.
So for me the reach is notnecessarily the most important,
important factor, although I doknow, you know I reach it.
I do have a bit more of a reachthan I just wanted to to people

(29:06):
.
For me, if I was just, if Icould just say by the end of my
career, hey look, I felt oneperson thrive in the ecosystem.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
That would be enough for myself, but self'm curious
for you and the answer may justbe it is who I am and that's
totally okay.
But I'm curious for new adminshow do you recommend they kind
of get over that mental hump tothink like that?
Because I at least know for meI'm speaking from my experience
and admins I've spoken to atuser groups when you're that

(29:35):
young into your career of beinga Salesforce admin or being
involved in the ecosystemwhether the admin is true admin
or developer architect, yada,yada there's this mentality and
block of, yes, I want to giveback, but I need to look, I need
to look out for me myself and II need to get that first job, I
need to get that experience,and I I am guilty of that.

(29:59):
When I first started I was verymuch in that mindset.
I didn't actually join a usergroup meeting until like eight
years into my career.
But, that being said, it's socommon to have that mentality.
How do you think people should,or what would you recommend for
people to kind of step out ofthat mentality, to be more Ohana
focused?

Speaker 3 (30:19):
Yeah, yeah.
So I don't know if this isgoing to be kind of like not
necessarily like the kind ofanswer that you're looking for,
but for me, a lot of actuallystands back to my, my Christian,
my Christian beliefs.
I've won the core tenets ofbeing a Christian is, you know,
we talk about being like humbleand faithful servants is one of

(30:41):
the lines that we use, and thewhole concept about that is
basically, you know, becausewe've been given so much as
Christians give back, and thatkind of mentality has kind of
always been there.
Since I came to faith as aChristian, I came to a very real
, quick conclusion, like do youknow what?
This, for me, is life-changing?

(31:02):
This belief system for me islife-changing.
So I should be doing what I canto try and make the world a
better place, even if that'sjust one again small group of
people that gets affected bythat.
So for me, that me, that wasthat for somebody else it might
be something different, somebodysomething completely different.
Um, I think the catalyst isgoing to be trying to like fight

(31:27):
, trying to find the thing thatgets you excited and gets you in
a position where you go do whatI.
I would.
I wish everybody knew aboutthis and if you get that, um,
that will be a good catalyst tohelp you kind of get into that
position for yourself as a salesprofessional.

(31:47):
I think, like for me as well.
You're like, when I startedlearning flow, you know, I spent
a lot of time talking aboutflow.
I write a blog about flow, um,you know, um, for me I was like
do what I, I love this, um, it'sone of my favorite things to do
.
I'll sit on, uh, on my laptopoutside of work and build floors

(32:08):
, you know, on my own free time,just because I want to try
something, uh.
And for me it's like like dowhat, if I, if what stuff I'm
trying to do and and work andcan help somebody else.
That's, you know, let's trythat.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
But you know, so again, finding the thing that
you almost kind of reallyenergizes you, the ecosystem
that is likely to be a strongcatalyst in that regard I like
that and I don't feel like wetalked about a lot on the show
of just like we talked a lotabout finding your support
system, finding your people tohelp you deal with the struggles

(32:45):
and trials and tribulations ofbeing a quote unquote full stack
admin in this ecosystem.
We don't talk nearly enoughabout like that catalyst and the
, the effort it takes for you tofind that catalyst.
So, with that being said,knowing your background with
everything, what got you focusedand passionate about flows in

(33:09):
particular?
You mentioned that and I knowyou also.
We'll talk about this in asecond.
But you also helped put on awonderful virtual event called
automation dreaming, which iswhere you and I met, and I spoke
at that event a while.
A couple also helped put on awonderful virtual event called
Automation Dreamin', which iswhere you and I met, and I spoke
at that event a couple of yearsago and can't recommend that
event enough.
Fingers crossed we get to seeit in 2024.
But what got you so interestedin Flow?

(33:29):
To the extent, create thatcatalyst for you.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
Yeah, yeah, so my Flow journey was.
It sounds a bit strange, but Isaw flow about a year before I
even touched it.
You know, like in an admincapacity, like I was working
part-time, I was working threedays a week as a Salesforce
admin but I saw what was ascreen flow, but I had no idea

(33:57):
about this beforehand.
I'd obviously used likeworkflow rules and process
builder, but I was at aconference that was tied to the
organization I was working in.
So I was working in the homesector and they use a
third-party product forSalesforce, so they didn't use
NPSB.
It was a third-party productcalled Inform and the people

(34:18):
behind that would run aconference every year talking
about the stuff that they werebringing into into their product
.
And I went to that one time andsomebody essentially clicked a a
new a button for to create anew record for what they call.
It was a custom object, theycalled actions and they clicked
on that.
But what it did is it popped upa list of the associated

(34:42):
pairing record for each actionthat should be linked to.
And this was an issue that Ihad seen several times over the
course of my time as admin,where people would ring me and
go.
Oh, they had what they wouldcall timeline events, which was
the custom object, whichessentially just basically a
record where every action waslinked to, and I would often get

(35:02):
calls from people in theorganization I was working in
where they'd go oh, we'veconnected the action to the
wrong timeline, can you reparentit for us?
And when I saw this person pullthis up on the screen, I was
like I want that.
Yeah, can you tell me whatthat's called?
And the speaker said it was afloor, um, and this was like.

(35:28):
This was in, like uh, middle of2018, uh, and at the back end of
2019, uh was when if I'mgetting my timelines right, it
might be a year out, but I thinkit was 2019.
That was the time where the bigupdate in the winter release
winter 20 release was theability to have record-triggered
flows, store the prior valuesbefore save in that, and I just

(35:57):
decided what the time was.
Actually.
I've got an interesting usecase for this, which was
something I would never actuallydo for for a client, but I was
just, you know, one of thoseideas that comes to you goes.
I wonder if we can do this yeahand what it was is.
We used to have this thingcalled uh.
Basically it was like anevaluation record I'm forgetting
the actual like verbiagethey're using now, but it like
an evaluation record I'mforgetting the actual like verb

(36:18):
is they're using now, but it wasan evaluation record that they
would do with the clients, uh,once every six months or so.
And I can, with the use case togo and I wonder if I can
essentially create a newevaluation by editing an
existing one and then change itand then just shifting out the,
the changes to a new record andthen just basically just undoing

(36:41):
the changes to the original one.
So it's a very strange use case, but it's like my house, like I
wonder if I could do this.
Uh, I would never recommenddoing this, but that was the
first flow I built, just doingdoing that because I wanted to
play around with these features.
And from there things kind ofstarted to to snowball a little
bit and I build up momentum.

(37:02):
So I started building more andmore floors, shifted a lot of
the uh, the workflow rules, intoflow uh, at that time this was
even.
This was like even like a year,two years before the retirement
was officially announced, I wasalready shifting workflow rules
and process builders in thefloor uh in terms of that, and
spend a lot of time designingthat, and I I fell in love with

(37:26):
with the, with the interface.
I used similar tools in thepast, so like, for example for
it's not quite the samecomparison like I used I did a
lot of web development uh on theside as a hobby outside that,
and I used, uh for a long time,a tool called wix, which is a
drag and drop interface webbuilder.
But in terms of kind of, itdoes have some similarities in

(37:50):
terms of the mindset behind howyou do things like design the
floor and stuff like that, whereit's the drag and drop
mentality, where you drag anddrop your components, you edit
them and you set them up how youwant floors at a very base
level fairly similar to thatmindset uh.
So I just started building upideas of how to do things and uh

(38:10):
then started speaking on onfloor uh about a year or so so
later A lot of that actuallystarted coming about, because
when the retirement wasannounced, I started getting a
lot more present around that,because I kind of sort of, I
guess, explored a little bit interms of being an automation
person, because at TDX not TDX,sorry Dreamforce that year

(38:36):
Salesforce announced thetimeline from a question that I
posted out ahead of Dreamforce,so that, yeah, dreamforce was
all virtual, apart from a selectgroup people could attend.
And when they announced thatthey retired on winter 23, I
came back and was like well,salesforce, you can't just say

(38:57):
this is being retired and notgive us any kind of milestones
or anything or any furtherinformation.
You've got admins, like ournonprofit space.
We've got hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of workflow
rules and process buildersacross just the nonprofit space,
and you're shutting down shop.

(39:19):
We need some information tokind of calm things, keep people
calm, essentially, and kind ofgive them a bit of peace of mind
.
It's like, okay, I've got likewe know now the end of support
is going to be 2025 in terms ofthat, but you're still going to
be able to use the olderautomations.

(39:43):
So I started kind of probablyexploring a bit around that and
then I started writing moreblogs, uh, doing stuff like
coven release, readiness live,uh, which for a while been like
one of my more popular pieces,just kind of recapping that, uh
for those who maybe didn't watchit.
And then I found like peoplejust on WhatsApp message and get
in touch with me after I'mgoing oh, could you explain to

(40:04):
me how to build this floor?
And that would often lead to megoing, no, but let me go away
and try it and I'll come back toyou.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
People giving you ideas to solutions so quickly on
the fly.
Totally, I like the way youexplain that story because I
feel like a lot of people whenthey think to what we had talked
about and I kind of broughtthis on we're like the catalyst
of what got you interested.
It doesn't have to be one quickthing.
It doesn't have to be like, oh,it started off for you as ooh,

(40:33):
I saw a flow, I want to grow andlearn more, but then it became
more of like there's use casesI'm speaking at events and it
just snowballs and snowballs.
The catalyst to get you sopassionate about learning a new
thing, speaking on a thing.
Getting you is so involved inthe community.
It doesn't have to be a quickyep.
That's my thing.

(40:53):
That's almost never a lightbulb moment.
It's usually a journey to getthere.
So I really liked your kind ofoverview of it's not a quick
journey, but you'll get there.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's just like a general
principle of of the, of being aSalesforce professional.
You know, like we talk, we talkabout it quite often.
Don't be like.
You know, salesforce as a, as asuite of products, is so vast
there's no way you can knoweverything.
So, and and even in just likeyou're just talking about, say,

(41:26):
the automation space, like I'vebeen a big component of trying
to get like a, a certificationfor, uh, the cloud of automation
, cause I would argue at thispoint in time of how much has
grown.
It's essentially on the samelevel, knowledge levels of a of
another cloud like sales orservice or so that it is you
know and I'm you know and kindof.

(41:47):
One of the principles I oftentalk about with people is you
know, it doesn't necessarilytake you long to learn the
basics of salesforce, but if youwant to get to the expert level
, it does take more time andmore investment in that, and
that investment may be somethinglike certifications for some

(42:08):
people.
I didn't get certified untilfive years into my career
journey and I feel the firsttime as well.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Same.
But you're absolutely right,though it needs to be something,
and I don't know what thatlooks like.
I don't think either of ustruly know what that looks like
in actuality, but knowing thatso many of the components around
flow automations, apex classes,those are being ingrained into

(42:36):
so many new systems inside ofthe ecosystem and Sales Cloud is
being the core driver and thecore kind of framework for so
many of these new systems beingbuilt on the Salesforce platform
.
You're right, it's eitherlooping into the admin and
really say an admin has to be anautomation expert or be its own

(42:59):
bucket like developer orarchitect.
But it's becoming especially aswe dive so hard into the click
not code mentality of things.
I'm with you it definitelyshould be something that admins
take more of a tune to.
But also, thinking through,what does that look like from a
career path?

Speaker 3 (43:20):
yeah, yeah, exactly, and it's, you know, for people's
career path is, you know, thatcould be slightly different.
Like for me, a lot of has beenquite organic in a sense, in a
sense.
So, like I, you know, althoughI'm still in, although I'm
technically in a for-profitcompany, I still focus on on
non-profits um, but for me, Iwas, you know, I was an admin

(43:42):
for five and a half years andgot to a position where I got to
a point where I I've prettymuch done everything that I can
do in in the company that I'm in.
I'm in, you know, I still keepin touch with people from the
organization, still, uh, verymuch support, support them, uh.
But you know, your careerjourney will pop if you keep

(44:04):
adding with sales, will probablyeventually get to a point where
you kind of go, okay, what'sthe, what's the next evolution
of, kind of like, my knowledgeand my skill set?
Uh, for me that was moving toconsulting, but for somebody
else it might be, say,transition from being an admin
into a developer.
It might be moving from yourdeveloper into admin.

(44:25):
It might, you know, um, andquite a bit of it could be quite
organic as well.
That's that was my being, myexperience with much of a lot of
the stuff that I've been ableto get into, involved in and
there's largely come aboutorganically yeah, and honestly,
that's when you see, at leastfor me, I've seen the most
growth when I just like keep itgoing with the flow.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
I'm not letting my frustration or lack of growth
control whether or not I'm likeI have to move or I have to
leave or I have to learn thisnew thing.
Like I want to organicallylearn more about data cloud as a
marketer, I want to organicallylearn more about flow because

(45:09):
there's so much power I can helpmy customers and help things go
with.
It's not like I'm being toldyou have to learn this thing,
cause if you don't you're fired,like that's.
I don't enjoy learning likethat and customers and help
things go with.
It's not like I'm being toldyou have to learn this thing,
because if you don't, you'refired, like that's.
I don't enjoy learning likethat and I don't think anyone's
going to be able to comfortablygrow in that type of environment
.
Pivoting a little bit, we arenearing the end of our time.

(45:30):
I have about two questions left.
The first, though, kind of goesback to the theme of the
episode how admins can thrive ina nonprofit space.
One thing you had said earlier,which makes complete sense, but
I didn't realize it until youhad really called it out.
A lot of folks in the nonprofitspace are going to be part time
admins.

(45:50):
They're not.
If they are working full timeand they're not admitting full
time, they are wearing a lot ofhats or they are just part-time
employees.
How would you recommend,outside of networking and
growing in a community, foradmins to thrive and find growth

(46:11):
in situations where they aren'tworking 40 hours a week in a
full-time gig?

Speaker 3 (46:16):
yeah, yeah, so that could.
Obviously that will obviouslydepend on the on the
circumstances of the of theindividual uh question.
But, like, if you're sayinglike for me I would say working
three days a week, uh, Iactually, yeah, it's something
we talked about in thenon-profit space has not
necessarily been the the bestway at times of doing so, but I

(46:37):
I actually volunteered at aanother non-profit and helped
them get set up with salesforceduring that time.
Um, you know, there is somerisks with that kind of.
Of course, you know, like youknow, we are talking about
Salesforce and if you know, youknow there are some horrors out
there of people who volunteeredand done some real damage over
the years.
But volunteering, if handledcorrectly by your organization

(47:03):
and you're volunteering for it,it can be a very fruitful
exercise actually.
But that does have to obviouslybe some good guardrails there.
So that's a potential reallygood way of of getting involved.
But I would kind of, reallykind of still drill home on the
kind of network connections, uh,going to user groups that's so

(47:24):
important because it's the it'sa personable connection uh,
outside of that, findingresources that will help you uh
like, uh, I used to view a blogwhich doesn't actually run
anymore, um, which, uh, I can'teven remember the name for now,
but it's not, you know, it'sit's gone, stopping being worked
on anymore.

(47:44):
But like blogs, like salesforcebandsents obviously a really
good shout, uh, particularly forthe non-profit space.
Well, I guess we'll probably beable to put this in the show
notes, but there's a really goodblog by michael kolodner who is
a fantastic voice within thenon-profit space.
He writes a blog called freelike a puppy, because he
associates salesforce often.
So just to kind of backtrack alittle bit for those who may not

(48:09):
know fully, uh, salesforce canbe free.
In air quotes for non-profits.
There was a scheme which iscalled the power power of us
program where you get 10 freelicenses for salesforce and then
after that you pay, uh for that.
Um, and michael's blog kind ofpicks on the premise of going
you might have got salesforcefor free, but it's not free as

(48:31):
in like a free gift, it's freelike a puppy.
Essentially, where you've gotto, you've got to look after,
you've got to care for, you'vegot to nurture it, otherwise
it'll just make a mess all overthe place.
Yeah, so that's a really greatresource for non-profits, uh,
and for me as well.
I would also say, if you've gotthe time, the capacity, getting
involved with something like thethe salesforceorg community

(48:55):
commons program, which I'minvolved with, is so good
because you get to meet peoplefrom all sorts of different
reamers, you get to spend timewith developers, you get to
spend time with admins,architects and all that kind of
stuff and you can, and there's alot of different projects
around different areas.
So, like I'm currently leadingthe one on uh ei, prompt

(49:17):
engineering for non-profits, uh,but I've also been involved,
involved in other groups as welland you'll you'll get, you'll
find when you go to that you'llsee like things, like tools that
you will find will be sobeneficial to you in your
organization.
Tools like Salesforceindicators, for example, which
is relatively new.
Also declarative lookup, rollupsummaries, or DLRS as it's

(49:41):
known by.
So many of these tools arecoming out of the nonprofit
space.
So you get involved in stuffthat you know.
If you you get involved in aproject like that, it can really
kind of almost like spearheadyour knowledge growth and always
put it on the on the steroidsalmost essentially, uh.

(50:02):
So it's a really great way ofpotentially doing that if you've
got the time and capacitytotally.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
I really like all of the options because honestly and
again this is partially on myown ignorance and lack of
knowledge of how vast thatnon-profit space is.
I knew that it's been growingexponentially over the last four
or five years but I didn'trealize how much, and it's so
amazing to hear and know thatthis space has finally has a

(50:30):
place that is more than justlike one or two user groups.
With that being said, in myuser group the user groups I go
to I always feel like there's alittle bit of a stigma for the
people who are in the nonprofitspace to ask questions and get
more involved in the non-profitin the for-profit space.

(50:52):
I was going to saynon-nonprofit, but there's
always like that little bit of astigma for those, for the
nonprofit admins, to try to likeadd value or add context in the
for-profit space.
I think that's garbage.
I think that everything you cando in non-profit cloud or even
just as a non-profit admin, youcan take those lessons into a
for-profit space and be wildlysuccessful.

(51:14):
What is your opinion on thatkind of stigma for those
non-profit admins trying to bemore involved in a for-profit
space?

Speaker 3 (51:23):
yeah, yeah.
So I do think that obviously Ihave.
I have seen that stigma at play.
You know not to be almost toocomplete about it, but if you go
to a lot of the communityconference events, which are all
amazing, you don't see too muchin the way of non-profit stuff,
and that's also the case atevents like Dreamforce and TDX.

(51:45):
You don't see as much on thenon-profit space.
However, I would also say thatand I'll sound somewhat flippant
of it it's like if you, if youcould, non-profit professionals
because of how in sales, whichis, because of how many kind of
different areas they have to diptheir toes into they're, by and

(52:06):
large, non-profit professionalsare going to be some of the
most widely experienced peoplein the ecosystem because they
have to wear so many hats bydefault.
So, even though they might notnecessarily use tools like
Marketing Cloud, for example,there's quite a significant
chance you'll find someone whocomes from a nonprofit space who
will have marketing knowledge,because they also happen to be

(52:28):
the person who's in charge ofmarketing.
You'll have people who knowsfinance quite well because
they're also in charge offundraising.
You'll wear so many hats.
And in terms of Salesforce aswell, specifically, obviously
there's so much scope withinSalesforce We've already talked
about that.
But core Salesforce is coreSalesforce across pretty much

(52:50):
every cloud, unless you go tosomething very bespoke like
Marketing Cloud.
But if you have a really goodknowledge of core Salesforce at
a nonprofit, you're going tocome in and you're going to be
able to pick up and probablylearn quite quickly the
additional stuff.
If I talk to, say, someone inthe ecosystem who seems to be

(53:12):
out, mark, have you Well?
For example, I had someonemessage me just the other day
and go have you used Eventbritein Salesforce integration?
And I'm like not for about fiveyears, but give me half an hour
I could probably figure it outor in enough detail to answer
your question.
And that's the case with a lotof nonprofit professionals.

(53:35):
You know they have.
Again, I would say thenonprofit space is so skilled
Only because, generally speaking, you know I was like I used to
use when I did nonprofit dreamand I used to see analogy from
friends or like Joey with allthe t-shirts on.
It was like your, eacht-shirt's like a different role
that you sit sits on top of youbeing the salesperson admin.

(53:55):
You know it's like you'regenerally wearing all of the all
of the hats yeah, I completelyagree with that.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
some of the smartest people in the ecosystem I know
have touched the non-profitspace at some point in their
career, so I'm with you 100%.
And that's why I'm like thatstigma doesn't make any sense.
But it's there and you see itall the time, where you have
these brilliant nonprofit usersjust not feeling comfortable
raising their hand because theydon't feel either that they will
be taken seriously or thattheir use case and experience as

(54:27):
relatable is going to be seenas applicable.
So I agree with you, I lovethat where you went with that.
But with that being said, weare nearing the very end of our
time.
I have one last question.
I always end the show on.
You probably know what it is,but for me, I always love asking
admins.
Throughout your journey andyou've had an amazing journey

(54:49):
we've all heard today what wouldyou say.
Your one regret is that youwish you could go back to your
former self and say, hey, let'schange it up, let's do something
differently.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
Yeah, well, apart from the York issue, which I got
into it sooner, I think, for meit's mainly around the
community side of things.
So like I had been in the spacefor about three years before I
started getting involved in thecommunity stuff, for me probably
my biggest regret is notgetting involved in the
community sooner.
Granted, I didn't always thinkabout until like a couple of

(55:23):
years in, but still, if I hadknown that the community was a
thing, I'd be able to set it upearlier than I did.
That is kind of probably my,you know, if I would pick one
regret, it's probably that thatyou know I didn't get involved
in the community side of thingssooner.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
I always like to add on because I've gotten we've
heard this as a very commontheme across admins for their
main regrets, which makes methink maybe I should ask a new
question.
But I just I always find itinteresting hearing people's
perspectives.
I want to push back a little toyou and see where you go with
it.
It's more than just attendingthe community.

(56:03):
It's being involved and being avoice in the community.
Being involved and being avoice in the community To your
point.
You got started and I was soincorrect at the very beginning
of the episode when I just hadassumed you hadn't done anything
and you building your own groupwas like your first intro, but
I mean it was.
So, whether it's you buildingyour own community to get
involved or it is you reachingout to the leaders of the

(56:27):
community groups that you havein your area and asking what way
you can get more involved andhelp out, I think it's more than
just attending a meeting.
It's it's finding ways toactively add value.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
Yeah, yeah, definitely so, like there's.
There's the old, old cliche, inthe sense of, you know, we talk
about it, terms like, of like,how you could be the most
benefit of people, which is the,the old cliche.
It's uh, I'm sure it transitsover to to the earth and other
countries as well, but it's, youknow, if you give a man a fish,

(57:02):
he'll eat for a day.
If you teach a man a fish,he'll never go hungry again.
And you're.
It's that latter part which iswhere the where the real value.
Value is, you know.
So, again, we talked aboutbefore, like, finding the thing
that gets you excited and youwant to and you want to share,
share with and help other peoplelearn.

(57:23):
You're, like, one of thebiggest ways I found myself
learning or, you know, seeingother people learn from stuff
I've done is by attending thoseconferences, speaking those
conferences, getting into thoseconversations, uh, attending,
just attending news groups, likeduring the during the pandemic
years, as as as rough as theywere.
One of the real benefits ofthat, in honest, all honesty, is

(57:46):
that when things went virtual,we were able to connect to
people anywhere in the world,everywhere, and that is such a
such a big benefit and that, youknow, although some of it has
died down a little in the lastyear or two, it's largely still
there and you know, a lot ofgroups still meet virtually and
stuff like that.

(58:06):
So, like, I'll every now andthen just rock up to a group
that's meeting virtually andjust like, sit in there and just
like, like, put comments in thechat and things like that.
But those conversations oftenend up seeing you getting the
connections on like LinkedIn orpeople following you on on on
Twitter.
Uh, people find you on theTrailblazer community and you

(58:27):
know, it's those kind of subtleways that you tend I tend to
find has often the biggestimpact in the long term.
You're just those conversationswhere people just someone just
found you on linkedin becauseyou were at a user group event
and you start having aconversation, having
conversations over messages andstuff, and you see that

(58:48):
communication grow.
But that's kind of yeah, Iwould say that's where you get
the real value coming in, justby, you know, attending.
And you know, one of the thingsthat we sometimes see in sales
in the sales space as well,which probably goes back to the
stupid question is there's alsono such thing as a as a stupid
question or a stupid comment.

(59:09):
You know, if you've got athought, you know, share your
thought and that'll open up aconversation agreed.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
I I've always hated the comment of there's no such
thing.
I mean, let's be fully real.
There are stupid questions outthere, but to the extent of you
being smart and intellectual andhaving common sense, it's very
unlikely that a question abouthow you're going to grow or
about a technical know-how inthe ecosystem is going to be

(59:39):
perceived as a dumb question.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
So don't have that anxiety.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
It's been absolutely a joy to sit down and talk with
you.
Your story has been sowonderful to listen to, and I
can't wait to have the rest ofthe community take a listen.
So, mark, I hope you haveenjoyed the rest of your evening
and we'll be chatting again,hopefully very soon thanks,
thanks, jacob, great to be on.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
A special thanks to our guest, mark, for sharing his
experience and journey gettingstarted in the ecosystem and,
ultimately, how admins canthrive in the nonprofit space.
We said it in the episode, butsome of the best admins out
there have come from a nonprofitbackground because ultimately,
you're in a place where you haveto wear so many hats and do so

(01:00:35):
much work with limited resources.
So if you're a new admin justgetting started, maybe try to
find some ways of how to getinto the nonprofit space.
It's a great learningopportunity and you're likely
going to be helping some amazingpeople in the process.
So thank you again, mark, forbeing a part of the show and
sharing your knowledge, asalways.

(01:00:55):
Thank you for taking the timeto listen and support the show.
If you have any feedback,questions or topic suggestions,
we'd love to hear from you.
So don't hesitate to connectwith us on LinkedIn or Twitter
or email us at info atadminsoftomorrowcom.
Also, as we mentioned at thestart of the show, if you're
going to be in Chicago or Austin, check us out at Connections or

(01:01:17):
Texas Dreamin' at the end ofMay.
We'd love to see you.
There are someone you knowwould like to be on the show or
would like to give someone ashout out, please go to our
website, adminsoftomorrowcom.
Forward slash, share yourthoughts and fill out our form
to be on the show.
Give someone a shout out or letus know if you're going to be
at an upcoming event.

(01:01:39):
If you've enjoyed this episode,don't forget to subscribe, leave
a review and share it with yourfellow trailblazers.
Every review, every share,means the world to us.
It with your fellowtrailblazers.
Every review, every share meansthe world to us, so we'd love
to see those numbers goskyrocket after this episode.
Once again, I'm Jacob Catalano,your host, signing off.
We appreciate you for listeningto Admins of Tomorrow,

(01:02:00):
trailblazing the Next Generation.
Thank you.