December 6, 2023 • 44 mins
Welcome to the premiere episode of Admins of Tomorrow. While most Salesforce podcasts you find are all about the product suite and technical solutioning, we want to hear from the people who make Salesforce special. We want to hear their stories and insights about what it means to be an admin.
This week, we meet with Hayley Tuller, Salesforce Architect & Co-Founder of Navigators. We had the pleasure to discuss her experience of discovering supportive organizations like Amplify, Salesforce Military, and Merivis, and how these communities played pivotal roles in her Salesforce journey. Haley explains how resources like these can help you avoid common pitfalls and accelerate your learning within the ecosystem.
Hayley Tuller is one of the co-founders of Navigators, a Salesforce service delivery Partner specializing in digital transformation for nonprofits, higher education, and public sector entities. As the Head of Delivery, she supervises Navigator’s Salesforce implementation and development services, trains aspiring Salesforce professionals, and directs delivery and training policy.
Salesforce is her second career; Hayley retired from the US Navy in 2012 after 20 years of service, including multiple combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan where she served as a cryptologist and linguist. Hayley also holds a Bachelor of Arts with a major in Sociology from the University of North Florida, where she graduated summa cum laude as a proud non-traditional veteran student courtesy the Montgomery GI Bill.
For over 7 years, she has been an active leader in the Salesforce community, speaking at multiple community and Salesforce events, including Dreamforce, TrailheadDX, and Midwest Dreamin’. She is the co-leader and founder of the Salesforce Jacksonville Nonprofit User Group, a member of the founding team behind the Salesforce community conference Nonprofit Dreamin’, an occasional blogger and office hours leader with Military Trailblazers (formally Vetforce), and volunteers as a coach with the Merivis Foundation, helping vets and military spouses launch Salesforce careers. You can find Hayley on Twitter at @hayleytuller.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:17):
Good morning and good afternoon.
My name is Jacob Catalano andI'll be your host on the
premiere episode of Admins ofTomorrow Trailblazing the Next
Generation.
Before we get started, I reallyjust want to say thank you to
everyone listening.
This podcast has been a realpassion project of mine over the
last two years, and so I'm very, very excited to get to go on
(00:40):
this journey with you all.
Our goal isn't all that complexwe want to create a platform to
inspire and empower the nextgeneration of Salesforce
administrators.
So in this podcast, we're goingto dive deep into the world of
being a Salesforce administrator, and we'll have the opportunity
to interview some amazingpeople in the ecosystem who are
(01:02):
trailblazing their careers andreshaping what it means to be an
admin.
We're going to talk throughtheir stories of success, learn
what skills and knowledge theyneeded to grow and excel in
their careers, and also talkthrough the latest trends and
technologies driving innovationfor the admin of tomorrow.
With that said, we want this tobe more than just a learning
(01:25):
experience.
We want it to be a community.
We want to hear from you, wewant to hear from your friends.
We don't want it to just be asilo of voices, so please feel
free to share your thoughts,questions and stories with us.
Together, we're going tonavigate what it means to be an
admin of tomorrow, so weappreciate you tuning in,
(01:46):
whether you're working from yourhome office, driving to an
office or your after worklistening.
We really appreciate you beinghere and it's time to dive on in
.
I'm so excited to introduce thevery first guest for admins of
tomorrow, haley Tuller.
I've had the opportunity to getto know and work directly with
Haley over the last two and ahalf years and I can say this
(02:09):
interview does not disappoint.
We're going to have the chanceto talk through how Haley got
started becoming a Salesforceadmin, as well as some tips and
tricks that they use to learnand grow and develop more in the
ecosystem.
Before we dive into theinterview, I just want to give a
quick intro.
Haley Tuller is one of theco-founders of Navigators, a
(02:30):
Salesforce service deliverypartner specializing in digital
transformation for nonprofits,higher education and public
sector entities.
Haley is the co-leader andfounder of the Salesforce
Jacksonville Nonprofit UserGroup, a member of the founding
team behind the SalesforceCommunity Conference, nonprofit
Dreaming, and an occasionalblogger and office hours leader
(02:52):
with military trailblazers,formerly known as VetForce.
Haley also volunteers as acoach with the Maribus
Foundation, helping veterans andmilitary spouses launch
Salesforce careers.
And without further ado, pleasewelcome Haley Tuller.
But no, I'm really happy thatyou were willing to jump on,
(03:29):
absolutely.
No, like I was saying, this issomething I've been wanting to
do for a while and, like I said,whether it's something I just
want to hear my own.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Okay, but this is a great premise, though, like this
is really this is great.
It's a good time for it, too.
Like I feel like I should savethis, for I don't know, maybe
I'm not saving it, but greatpremise, because I am not
convinced that there is enoughfocus put on specifically how we
(03:59):
showcase more of these freshvoices.
You saw some of the notes thatI sent you, yeah, so I think
it's a great idea.
I think I don't think anybody'sdoing anything remotely like it
.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Well, and I like the idea too that I want these
informal conversations, so likeI may leave this part in, I may
take it out, but I like havingthis kind of.
This is just a conversation topeople who are in the ecosystem,
who really we've workedtogether just because we have
that relationship.
But we do two very differentthings in the ecosystem and I
(04:32):
see so many of these podcasts,whether they're run by a company
or they're run by a trailblazer, but they are about the
technology and more about, like,what is Salesforce doing for
the ecosystem instead of whatare the people doing within the
Salesforce ecosystem.
So those are the ones I like toread.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, yeah, I listen to the ones I love.
You know it's defunct now.
I think they kind of burned outon it and for a long time.
You know Melissa did that.
You know the two wit podcast.
I don't know if you everlistened to that one.
No it's been gone for a whilenow, but it was one of the
really one of the OGs and it wasvery much just two people
(05:14):
having a conversation and Ireally liked that.
It felt like you were just inthe room with some friends,
right.
And those are the podcasts thatI really enjoy because they
really give me kind of aninsight into how other people
think about things and theybring fresh perspectives.
I don't feel like there's asmuch gained.
You know this is that whole.
(05:35):
I'm all over the place.
But you know, that whole conceptof like T shaped people right,
we talked about this a lot atSir Conte.
It's a big premise of how SirConte encourages people's
development.
But that idea of the T shapedperson, of the really deep in a
particular area but they have abroad set of interests across
the top of the T, it's a reallypowerful paradigm.
I think that there's a lot ofgreat material out there.
(05:57):
That is the bottom of the T,but I think part of the reason
why we all enjoy events so muchis because that's the top.
You know, that's the time whereyou get to like mix with lots
of different people and seewhat's going on in different
places in the ecosystem, and Ithink the podcasts in the
Salesforce ecosystem are attheir best when they do that,
(06:17):
when they bring togetherdifferent kinds of people from
different kinds of corners andthey kind of mix and share on
stuff that you wouldn'totherwise like learn about.
That's where, to me, that is aplus.
I really enjoy that.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Well, without further ado, then, I do want to, like I
said before, thank you so muchfor joining.
Whenever I first kind ofthought about doing this podcast
, my first thought was I don'twant to just talk to all the
same marketers.
I definitely plan on bringingthem on and talking to them, but
who is someone who has had avery unique story of being in an
(06:52):
admin space, a nonprofit space,a marketing space and also, to
that same effect, starting yourown business in?
Thankfully it wasn't likemiddle of COVID, but starting
your own business in general issomething super scary.
Starting your own business thatspecializes in Salesforce,
which is a market that alreadyhas a lot of players too, is
(07:15):
equally scary.
Also, kind of understandingfrom you your journey to get to
that start to finish, for, like,what brought you into the
ecosystem, what made you think Iwant to go down this route,
what insights you can provide tothe future.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, no, I think you know, I always feel like this
is a really good place to start,because one of the things I
love about this line of businessis everyone has such a wacky
backstory, and I think that's sogreat.
I think it's part of whyworking in this industry is so
interesting.
It's because we really do havepeople that are from like all
over the place, right, I havemet very few people who
(07:54):
literally were like I have acomputer science degree and then
I did this.
I don't think that's a reallycommon you know road and I think
we're richer for it.
So I would, I would definitelysay, a fall in that category.
So I am also a mid-career, amid-life career shift right,
which I think this industry isalso very friendly to.
(08:16):
So I like those stories and Ilike hearing them elevated.
For that reason, right.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
With all that being said, I'd love to kind of dive
into what was that?
What was that original careerpath to you and what brought you
into that Salesforce ecosystem?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
So I'm definitely a proud accidental admin, right,
and I feel like there has been abit of a backlash on that term
I think well-intentionedbacklash.
But but lately I feel like youhear a lot of people say, oh,
don't say accidental admin,because it implies you didn't
work at it.
But I think that what ismissing sometimes is to remind
(08:55):
people how random these thingsare sometimes.
So there were all more.
Our eyes are more opened to thepossibilities that we do
sometimes see in front ofourselves.
So I definitely came into itworking at a nonprofit and I'm
skipping a bit of history there,though people who know me know
that this was not my firstcareer.
So I actually spent 20 years inthe military.
(09:18):
I was in the Navy for 20 years.
I joined the Navy straight outof high school.
So I enlisted because I wasfrom the Midwest and I wanted to
see the world check jobaccomplished.
And I spent 20 years kind oftraveling all over the world.
First half of my career waspredominantly in Europe.
My post-911 career half to meit's kind of bifurcated in the
(09:42):
middle.
I'm a many times over veteranof both Iraq and Afghanistan.
Served in both of thoseconflicts for extended periods
of time.
I have the better bit of abouteight years deployed basically
between those two spaces.
So I retired in 2012.
At the time, I was workingYemen and Horn of Africa when I
(10:03):
retired.
So when I got out of the Navy,I still had the same problem I
had that made me join the Navy,which is that I didn't know what
I wanted to be when I grew up.
So I said you know what the GIBill seems like.
A good idea, let's put off thisdecision for a little while so
I went to college.
I got my degree in sociologywith a minor in economics,
(10:25):
simply because it pleased me,because I wanted to learn things
that I was interested in, had ablast, loved it, did it too
quickly.
If I could go back and do itagain I would go slower because
I had a really good time and atthe end of it I was like, okay,
now I really do have to get ajob.
So I was really drawn toworking in nonprofits.
(10:46):
To me it felt like a reallynatural segue.
So I certainly, you know I camefrom 20 years of military
service.
I had a service mindset.
I felt like that was my valueset.
I wanted to do somethingproductive and that gave back
and I also had a real passionfor wanting to do something very
local and that supported mycommunity.
(11:07):
So one of the things that'salways a challenge when you're
in the military as you moveevery like if you're lucky only
every couple of years, sometimesmore.
So I wanted to feel kind ofrooted and do something more
hyper local.
So I started working innonprofits and one of the first
nonprofits that I worked in Imade friends with a guy who ran
the database and I would helphim out with stuff and I said,
(11:30):
oh, this is for me.
I like this right Like messingaround with the data and coming
up with you know what was neededto support decision-making and
to make people's experienceunique.
At the time, I was working at mylocal symphony so there's a
symphony here in Jacksonvilleand I was working as the front
desk at the symphony and theyused that data to create amazing
(11:57):
experiences for symphony goersand I really was fascinated by
it and just completely latchedonto it and fell in love.
So I started chasing that andwhile I worked at a hospital
foundation running a razor'sedge implementation and worked
on a number of different systems, I was on Bloomerang at one
point and then I found a role atmy local here in Jacksonville.
(12:21):
There is an organization thatserves as a local rape crisis
response center.
So you sometimes see thesephone numbers that people who
are victims of sexual assaultcan call and they can get
advocacy and support.
We were that organization andthey struggled with having you
know, it's a story we've allheard a million times multiple
databases that don't talk toeach other and intensely manual
(12:42):
processes and having to shuttledata.
We've all heard this a milliontimes.
So they were looking forsomeone really to work on that
problem and I was drawn to itimmediately and started
researching what might be thebest option and I stumbled on
this thing called Salesforce andI was like, okay, why is it
called Salesforce?
(13:04):
It took me a while to kind ofunderstand it and I fell in love
, like a lot of people.
I got bit by the bug and wasjust really passionate about its
flexibility to solve lots ofdifferent problems.
For me, the light bulb came onwhen my AE showed me the app
exchange actually and I realized, yeah, and that was when I
(13:27):
realized how packaging workedand that you could build and
install things in almost aLego-like manner and I realized
that Salesforce would not onlysolve, like our current problems
, but potentially problems inthe future.
We didn't even know we had yetright, and so that part to me,
oh yeah, the flexibility of itwas just like yes, this is for
(13:47):
me.
So we did an implementation.
It was totally amazing.
I had a great experience.
I ran it for about a year.
It was all I wanted to do Forfolks that work in nonprofits.
My hat is off to you because,of course, nonprofit people
always have to wear lots ofthose hats and they're always
doing lots of different things.
(14:08):
I really struggled with beingasked to do a bunch of stuff
that had nothing to do withSalesforce, but all I wanted to
do was Salesforce.
I eventually made the jump intoconsulting so I could do it
exclusively.
That's how I stumbled intoSalesforce Nonprofit-centric
consulting.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I love how you started, that of people say
being an accidental admin meansyou looked your way into it.
I mean, to an extent that'strue, but that doesn't mean you
don't grow and earn and developyour way into it and that your
other experiences haven't shapedyou in a way for this.
I do have to ask, because I'veasked this question to a lot of
(14:47):
other people are you a big fanof doing puzzles?
Oh, absolutely Okay, because Ifeel like the person who loves
solving puzzles, who loves tofigure out how to make this
thing, that shouldn't force ittogether like a puzzle piece.
That's a perfect Salesforceadmin, developer, manager, the
(15:09):
people who really just want tosee oh, there are three gaps
here.
Well, to do that, we have toconnect A and B and you have to
rotate this around this way andyou have to jump three times and
bat your head and rub yourbelly, and you have to be able
to do all these different thingsto get it to work.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It's so funny how your brain can be trained in
some of those ways, and for meit seems like a weird shift for
a lot of people.
But this is something I don'toften get a chance to talk about
or share much.
But when I was in the service Iwas a linguist and a
cryptographer, so the job I didand did in the later half of my
(15:48):
career from a battlefield wasessentially sophisticated
problem solving aroundcryptography and in particular I
specialized in personalcommunication systems, so how
you can hack cell phones andgeolocate people and do a lot of
really fun stuff like that wasthe kind of problem I was doing
in those days.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
On one hand, I'm so fascinated, on the other, I'm
super scared.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
You know what?
There are no super secrets,right?
Speaker 1 (16:21):
The reality is, this is actually.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
You know it's not.
I'm kind of one of those peoplethat giggles a little bit at
conspiracy theories because,having served 20 years in the
military, we can barely getourselves from point A to point
B.
Trust me, the power andstructure necessary for that
level of conspiracy theory Notpossible, not in government work
(16:44):
.
Yeah, but I was a puzzle solverin my old job right, that was
really what I did, and so yourbrain can really be trained that
way.
And I think so much of the keyof what attracts people like us.
It's not an accident that manyof us are Lego people, so shout
out to our hiring our heroes.
(17:05):
Fellow that just joined us,trent Wayland, is a big Lego guy
, and whenever I meet Legopeople I'm all like, ooh, you
are a Salesforce architect inthe making.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
We're gonna get along .
Speaker 2 (17:17):
You don't know it, then yeah, but I think you're
right, I absolutely do.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Knowing that you, I think what you had said to me at
another conference was love atfirst app.
I mean, I'm with you.
The app exchange is so amazing.
I was kind of on the oppositeside of it.
I was a little daunting becausethere were so many applications
to choose from.
But, that being said, I'mcurious and I think I know the
answer.
But for those folks at homeunderstanding, like when you
(17:46):
first learn that, oh, this iswhat this can all do, this is
how powerful the solution is, Iwant to dive deeper.
What gave you that?
Or I guess first off one whydid you want to dive deeper?
But also, how did you divedeeper?
What were some of the resourcesand things you used?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So what made me want to do it?
I don't know, sheer audacity.
You know, on a certain level oflike, you see, the power of
what's possible, and I justwanted it.
I wanted the ability to buildthose things and deliver them to
people who were busy doing workthat the world needed and to
(18:25):
some extent, also really similarto my old line of work.
You see a problem and you knowthere needs to be a tool, and
you know that you can build thattool.
If you can just knuckle downand figure it out, oof, how do
you walk away from that?
You know I could not have saidno to it.
I was attracted like a moth tothe flame, you know.
(18:47):
So for me it has always beenabout what could this make
possible?
And I think that vision that weall have around, whatever the
problems are and the things thatwe want to solve, is what
drives us to the audacity ofbelieving we can, and I love
that.
I want that level of audacityfor everyone.
(19:10):
So I think it's a great thing.
As far as what I used right.
So I definitely my hat is offto the people who are like I got
into Salesforce beforeTrailhead, right.
I cannot claim that.
I definitely would not fall inthat category.
But when I was first gettingstarted, I will tell you my
(19:32):
greatest resource right and partof the reason I chose much of
my career path.
Later, when we did ourimplementation, we used a
partner.
So we had a partner and it wasnot like a huge contract, it was
really just a fairlystraightforward and narrow
implementation.
But I really believe in thepower of the institution of the
(19:56):
partner, because having somebodythere, essentially as your, as
your ride or die right, somebodywho has a vested interest in
your success, who is ascommitted to that implementation
as you are, somebody that youcan go to and get that kind of
mentorship and help andempowerment, to my mind is the
best example of what the partnerprogram can be.
(20:17):
When we sat down and and I'mskipping ahead a little bit, I
guess, but when Dustin and Imade the decision to start our
company, we started working onthe name.
You know it is really hard toname a company and if you
haven't tried, it's really hard.
All the good URLs are taken.
Man, I'm telling you and we wereally worked on that for a long
(20:38):
time because we were trying tocapture that.
And then the metaphor we chosewas navigators, because that's
how I see a partner, right, myclients, the people in the
nonprofits.
They're on a journey.
Right, they're trying to getfrom point A to point B, they're
trying to accomplish something.
They have had that moment ofthe audacity to want to build
the tool right.
(20:59):
We are not the captains of thatship, we are not the people
steering, I'm not the pilot, butI am a trusted wayfinder.
And that, to me, is whenpartners are at their best.
Right Is when they are not thepeople on the journey, but they
are the people empowering thejourney.
And so we chose that name verydeliberately for that reason.
And for me, you know, havingthat relationship was a huge
(21:23):
empowerment initially and mademe believe I could do it.
I did not find TrailheadMilitary and Marivus and many of
these other organizations untilmuch later in my career and, of
course, at that point I jumpedin with both feet because I had
found my tribe.
I do want to give a shout outto Amplify, right, some people
(21:43):
may be familiar with Amplify.
Amplify is a great nonprofitthat serves women and people who
identify as women who arewanting to start Salesforce
careers.
They have a study group program, which is A-plus and it is.
It's a really good, safe spaceplace to ask the dumb questions
(22:03):
and get your start in Salesforce.
And I got my admincertification in an Amplify
study group.
So that was that was the firstlike formal program I really
took advantage of.
A little while after that Istumbled into Salesforce
Military because I met CatherineClark at a community conference
.
I was up for an adrement sogave my very first talk at a
(22:28):
community conference and metCatherine Clark afterwards and
found Trailhead military andthen after that got plugged into
Maravis and moved forward.
So one of the things I alwaystell people when they're getting
started find your tribe right.
They're there, I promise you.
I don't care where you'recoming from I don't care.
(22:48):
I don't care if you used to be anurse, I don't care if you're a
theater kid, I don't care ifyou're a construction guy.
I don't care, your tribe ishere right, and so one of the
things I usually tell people istry to find your tribe right,
because that group of people isgoing to be a huge help to you
in that journey.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
No, I absolutely agree with that.
It's funny to hear this stuff asI've evolved with my career,
because I mean for me, when Ifirst started I very much had
the mentality of I'm going tolearn what I need to be
successful in my job and nothingelse Did not value certs, did
not value the trailblazercommunity.
And it wasn't until I wasprobably about four years in did
(23:31):
I realize oh, jacob, youwonderful little dumb dumb you
like just realizing how amazingand open this community is.
So one of the questions I hadwhich I love that you kind of
already organically answered wasall around in-house work versus
partners and I used to think,oh, I just, it's too much money,
(23:53):
they're just trying to.
They're just like any otherbusiness, they're just trying to
make a profit off me.
I can learn this on my own, butkind of understanding that
value between do it yourself andworking with that company who
knows their stuff.
So I'm curious your take onthat kind of dichotomy between,
(24:14):
oh, I can just do this myselfand no, I want a company or a
professional who can, I canlearn from in addition to the
trailblazer community.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, yeah.
That's a really good way ofputting it too, because I think
the thing we're all dancingaround is the missing equation.
The missing piece of thisequation is time, right?
So could you, as a solononprofit admin at a nonprofit?
at any organization, right at abusiness, whatever, sit down and
say I'm going to figure thisstuff out, I'm going to use the
(24:43):
tools that are available and Iwill develop these skills.
Haya is 맛이, I'm going to setthe estable, the Aaa, abb.
So, frickin' lulley, yes, youcan right, that is 100% possible
the power of bringing in atrusted partner and working with
someone who already has theestablished credentials and has
(25:05):
done this several times asyou're going to avoid those
pitfalls.
Practically everyone listeningto this, right, if I just say
the words marketing, usercheckbox most everyone is going
to have a visceral reaction tothat stupid little checkbox on
the user record.
Right that at some point earlyon in your journey you realize
(25:28):
and, by the way, if you haven'trealized it yet, let me save you
some pain, I did a little freeconsulting for you- you can?
I don't care what your profilesays.
I don't care what yourpermission sets are.
If that box is not checked,that person cannot make
campaigns right.
And it's such a weird encounter,intuitive thing, links and
artifact of older things and thearchitecture.
(25:48):
But Salesforce is riddled withlittle things like that.
I mean it's unavoidable becauseit is such a complex system,
but when you work with a partner, you kind of zip past a lot of
those painful rights of passage,right, and so I think that's a
lot of what they bring to thetable.
So sometimes it makes a lot ofsense right To invest
(26:09):
financially and building thatcapacity faster, getting from
point A to point B faster, sothat you and the organization
can then really focus your timein on the things that only you
can do.
I often tell my clients that Iam like an outboard motor on
your canoe.
Right, I can make this canoe goreally fast, but you still have
to steer.
They have got to, from withinthe organization, set their
(26:31):
strategy, set the prioritiesright, figure out how they want
to measure ROI, figure out howthey define the success of the
project.
I can't do any of that, butonce they've done that work, I
can get us there a whole lotfaster, and I think that's a lot
of the difference really 100%agree and I've told people this
at user group meetings that ifyou have the opportunity, see if
(26:55):
you can talk your company intohiring a consultancy.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yes, I get that there's costs involved and not
every company has that budget,but for you it also depends on
how you learn.
But for me personally, I learnby getting in a dev work,
getting my hands dirty andbreaking my toys and then
putting those toys back together.
And so for me, being able towork with a consultancy, learn
(27:19):
from them, get theirrecommendations, like you said
with Amplify, being able to findtheir own company groups, learn
from them and then also makethose networks to make that next
step.
So for people who are justgetting into the ecosystem, who
are accidental admins, but alsopeople who want to do this who
(27:39):
are not accidental admins, I'vealways recommended that, if you
have the ability to jump downthat route and get that partner
but, that being said, to thosewho don't have that luxury, who
just maybe the company can't, itdoesn't have Salesforce and
you're trying to branch out toyour own Salesforce bubble,
(28:00):
that's not even remotely relatedto the current industry you're
in.
What are some things yourecommend for people trying to
get their service, trying to getin the ecosystem, how to learn
all the things Cause.
For me that's always been a bigpain, pain.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
So I think a lot of this.
I think there's two layers tothis right.
I think there's a layer ofwhere we talk about advice I
have around how to learn how tolearn right At a very basic
level, and then I think there'sanother layer at which we can
answer this and say here aresome of the resources that I
really like to use right, andthat second one's super useful
(28:37):
right, but it will not be usefulto you until you start to
figure out how to learn how tolearn right.
And I was one of those kidsthat when I went through high
school it wasn't terribly hardand I didn't try very hard.
I just went to a regular Midwestpublic high school and pretty
much could whip out my homeworkon the bus, and that was the end
(28:59):
of that.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
So when I first came in the I'm so envious of that.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Well, it bit me later , man, because when I enlisted
in the Navy and I was classed tobe a linguist, they sent me
into language school, so I didnot speak a foreign language.
When I joined the military,they gave me a placement test
and somehow got the crazy ideathat I could be a linguist and
literally plucked me out of abasic training one day and said
(29:25):
hey, you did really get on thisplacement test, do you want to
be a linguist?
And I said what they actuallycalled it by the technical name
of the job, which was the CTI,and I said well, what is that?
And they said it's acryptologic, technician
interpretive.
And I said what is that?
And they said we don't know.
It's something to do withlanguages.
And this is a little.
Again, I'm gonna do a call backto why conspiracy theories will
(29:49):
never work, because this is howthe government really works.
Literally they were like wedon't know, but the school is in
California and I said, ooh,sign me up.
So they sent me to languageschool.
I went to Monterey, california,to the Presidio of Monterey,
and I studied Arabic there.
So that was the first time thatI actually really had to learn
how to learn right, because itwas hard.
(30:11):
You get the equivalent of fouryears of a college degree,
basically in like a year andthree months.
And the way it works in themilitary is if you try, if you
make an effort right and youdon't make it through a course,
you get what's called a LOE or alack of effort.
People can't see I'm airquoting right now.
Everything's got an acronym inthe military.
So I will try really hard notto do that.
(30:32):
But if you go through a courseand you don't make it but you
tried, right.
If the finding is that you gaveit a shot, you tried, right,
they will find you another job,right, they'll go.
Okay, this isn't for you, right?
Maybe we'll send you over hereand you can be an Intel
specialist or you can be this oryou can be whatever, right?
If you fail a course and thefinding is what's called lack of
(30:56):
effort, right?
Or an LOE buckle up buttercup,it ain't gonna be good for you,
they're gonna give you aterrible job.
And when I was at languageschool in those days, there was
a huge mural of an aircraftcarrier on the quarter deck the
quarter deck's like the lobby,basically, of the barracks and
we had to walk past it every dayon our way to class.
(31:18):
And every day we walk past thishuge mural of an aircraft
carrier and it had a big, boldfont at the bottom of it you
fail, you sail.
So let's say it was a motivator.
So I had to really fast learnhow to learn right, because I
had never really done it.
So I think that I think firstof all, I would tell people give
(31:40):
yourself some grace, right,there's a really good chance.
You've never really been in aposition where you had to learn
how you learn right.
So I would start withunderstand that that may be part
of the gap.
If you're trying and you'replaying around with materials
and things aren't really sinkingin, maybe you just haven't
figured out what your techniquesare.
Talk to more people about theirtechniques and how they like to
(32:04):
study.
That may help you spin the dialand figure out what's your
process right, because what's myprocess isn't everybody else's
process.
Different people learndifferently, right?
So I think that that's a reallyimportant piece, and I think
some people get reallyfrustrated and stuck early on
because they just haven'tfigured out their own technique.
For me, I am a very systematiclearner, so when I first start
(32:25):
exploring something new, right,I go initially to trailhead.
That's like my first stop,right.
I just I wanna get a little, Iwanna get a taste.
Right, I just wanna get inthere and get a little teaser.
I'll do some trailheads.
I'll start to figure out what'swhat right, get a little bit of
a sense of the structure,decide if I'm gonna keep going.
Is this what I thought it was.
(32:46):
Is this really what I wannalearn?
Is this the solution for theproblem I'm trying to solve
right now?
Whatever, right, that's myinitial dip.
Then I'm the kind of personthat I go find the documentation
and I literally sit there and Iread the documentation.
Right, I'm one of those nerds.
I'm pushing my glasses up.
You can't see but.
I'm one of those nerds thatactually reads the release notes
(33:06):
like every release.
So I just that's just how mybrain works Like I need
structure, I need somebody to gofirst this and then this and
then this, right, and I'll readthrough the documentation.
Admittedly, I may skim some ofit kind of fast, right, but I'll
run through the documentationand then I start studying for
(33:27):
the cert, right?
So the last step for me is,once I've at least read through
the documentation, once I getout the cert and I use the study
guide.
I literally copy and paste thestudy guide into a document and
I start sticking my notes in theappropriate places in the study
guide.
So I use the study guide, I usecerts like a framework.
I need a framework right ofknowledge, a taxonomy if you
(33:52):
will and then I fling knowledgeat that and that's how I
structure and organize thingsand learn from there.
So I think people always havethis sense of like there's some
sort of magical resource outthere and I just haven't found
it yet.
I hate to tell you.
In my book it's thedocumentation.
Yeah, I talk to people all thetime and they say I'm really
(34:12):
struggling to learn this and Igo well, have you read the
documentation?
No, I don't know.
I'm gonna try.
It can be a lot.
Maybe you're just gonna do alittle snippet every day, right?
I don't think that there's anymagic answers here, other than
figure out how you like to learnright and respect how your
(34:33):
brain works and respect whatworks for you, right.
But there is no substitute forjust going to the documentation
and reading it through andunderstanding what's happening.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Nope, and I think that is more daunting than
people Like.
People think, oh, I'm justgonna go in and then you read it
.
It can be really daunting andit can be really.
I mean, I feel like I've talkedto my wife about this many
times we're pretty sure I havesome sort of undiagnosed ADHD,
because I get massive analysis,paralysis.
(35:05):
I get in very much.
I look at the documentation andI just see how daunting it is
and I just kind of freeze.
It's why I haven't watchedcertain TV shows that are like
30 seasons long, because I startfreaking out and getting legit
anxiety of just like, oh, I haveto consume and get down that
(35:25):
much content, whoa boy.
So for me, I've always been alook at the documentation if I
can't break it and figure outhow to reassemble it.
So, like I'm the guy whodoesn't look at instructions
when he buys a new piece of IKEAfurniture, I figure it out as
I'm building and if I mess upalong the way, then we're going
to the notes.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Okay, my business partner is like you.
He is what we call an inductivelearner, so he does the same
thing.
He breaks things and then putsthem back together and then
extrapolates from that what hewants to know.
I approach it moresystematically and again that
goes back to that respect, tothe way that you like to learn.
I think the other thing that'sworth saying here too, is we
have, I think perhaps maybe inthis community, built up a bit
(36:10):
of a culture that minimizes howmuch work learning is right.
Salesforce really tries hard toremind everybody or to say to
push this idea of this is easyand it is.
Compared to other platforms itis easy, right?
Well, it is easier.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
I was asked that.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
That's where I wanted to go with it, comparatively
speaking, yeah, yeah yeah, it'scomparatively easier, but that's
not the same thing as sayingit's easy, and I often see
people I think you know we oftenlook.
If you go on to the SalesforceReddit today, I guarantee you
half those posts will be aboutwhether or not certifications
(36:52):
are BS or not right, which isbetter.
How many certifications shouldyou have?
Like, there really is so muchangst around people who and I'm
not necessarily saying it's bad,but this idea of I'm simply
gonna pass as many tests as Ican right Creates this belief
that, at least for most people,these should not be that hard,
(37:15):
and that is a distortion, right.
This stuff is hard, yep.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
I love that.
I absolutely love that.
So, with all of, we've talkedabout a lot of different things,
I guess, knowing that we arenearing the end of our fun time
on this journey.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
but I know it's a fun little journey.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
I hate saying like the very stereotypical podcast
host guy.
I'm not writing secrets, y'all.
I'm a Texan who says y'all.
But I think, knowing we arenearing the end of that time, I
want to kind of end it on a whatis a recommendation for people
new to the ecosystem?
So I look at it as when I wasfirst getting started again, I
(37:58):
just went straight into.
This is a tool for work.
I'm gonna learn it for work andnothing more.
And I wish someone gave me theadvice of what do you think the
greatest value you can get fromthe user community, from the
overall Salesforce Trailblazercommunity, when you're just
getting started?
Speaker 2 (38:16):
It's a great question .
Find the thing and the venuewhere you can teach.
I don't care how junior you are, I don't care how new your
journey is, there is somebodythat is further behind than you,
there is somebody that you canteach to.
(38:36):
One of the easiest venues to dothis is user groups, or
whatever we're calling themthese days.
I guess their trailblazersuperstar astrolightning.
I was about to say it's just a.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Salesforce thing.
The name constantly changes.
I'll say user groups.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
User groups are often a really great venue for this,
Joining different types oforganizations, things like
Merivis coaching people who arenewer in the ecosystem.
No matter what, there is aspace, there is somebody you can
give back to.
There's somebody else that youcan teach and help along.
That is obviously, to a certainextent, an obligation that we
(39:18):
all have, that the magic of thisecosystem is that everybody is
generous with their time andhelps each other.
Being a part of this is owninga piece of that and having that
obligation, but I'll also sayit's incredibly even power.
There's no better feeling thanwhen you've learned something,
than to turn around and share it.
(39:39):
The joy of learning ismultiplied in the teaching and
the sharing.
There's no better satisfactionthan when you can say I figured
this thing out and I'm going toturn around and share it.
It's a great way to challengeyourself, to push your own
learning too.
If there's an area you reallywant to learn about, there's no
better way to learn somethingthan to have to teach it.
Seek out opportunities to coachand mentor and teach other
(40:05):
people.
Don't ever feel like, whereveryou are on your journey, you
have something you can give back.
Everybody does.
Don't feel like that's only forother people.
Find that space, find somebodyelse to help challenge yourself.
Submit to speak at events, goto your user groups, raise your
hand.
I'll teach a topic at usergroup.
(40:25):
Whatever you just learned, youcan share it with somebody that
doesn't yet know it 100 percentagree with that.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
It's so funny because the people who are now the no
longer the admins of tomorrow,but the admins for today are the
people who, just organically,were seeking that out.
I'm actively submitting tospeak at dreamin' events.
I'm actively trying toparticipate at Dreamforce,
(40:55):
whether I'm speaking or justdoing a circle of success
session, where you're justleading a table of
conversationalists and thentrying to help guide people down
a path, or even on theTrailblazer community website.
When people ask a question,jump on in and be willing to
answer an anonymous question,just finding those ways to what
(41:20):
Hailey said.
challenge yourself, because Ispeak from my kind of video game
love of like.
Whenever I complete a level ordo something that's really
challenging, the first thing Iwant to do is be like wife honey
, come see the thing I did, comesee the thing I did.
And there's very much a.
I don't know if it'spsychological.
(41:42):
I don't want to go superanalytical on this but I do
think there's a level of kind oflike in your childhood, getting
that validation and recognitionto let you know you're on the
right path and that never goesaway.
I don't care what age you are, Idon't care if you're 15, 30, 45
, 60, 70, you're alwayssubconsciously trying to find
(42:04):
that validation to get approval,and so I love the idea of
finding seek out teachingopportunities.
Don't wait until you become theexpert 10 years down the line.
Do it day one.
Absolutely no.
Oh well, hailey, I reallyappreciate you taking the time
(42:25):
and this definitely won't be thelast of our conversations.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
But it has to be the last one for a day because we
all have to carry on with otherthings.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
But again, thank you so much and we'll be sharing
with you soon.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
It was absolutely a pleasure.
Thank you so much, and I can'twait to see all the great
episodes you're going to make.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
I appreciate it.
What an amazing interview thatwas.
Oh, thank you so much to Haileyfor being our guest on our
(43:05):
premier episode, and thank youto you, the listener, who stuck
around to hear us in our outro.
We really appreciate youjoining us.
So just remember, as we gothrough and move forward with
our podcast series, your voicematters.
We want to hear your thoughts,hear your questions and even
your success stories, so pleasefeel free to connect with us on
social media, shoot us an emailor, wherever you're listening to
(43:27):
this, leave a review.
Your feedback really doesmatter and helps me shape the
future of this show.
And speaking of the future,don't miss our upcoming episodes
.
We'll be launching a newepisode weekly, so keep an eye
out for that, as we dive intomore exciting topics, feature
more incredible guests andexplore the ever-evolving world
of being a Salesforce admin.
(43:49):
So stay tuned for more to comeand stay inspired.
Once again, I'm Jacob Catalano,your host, signing off.
We appreciate you for listeningto Admins of Tomorrow,
trailblazing the next generation.
Good morning and good afternoon.
My name is Jacob Catalano andI'll be your host on the
premiere episode of Admins ofTomorrow Trailblazing the Next
Generation.
Before we get started, I reallyjust want to say thank you to
everyone listening.
This podcast has been a realpassion project of mine over the
last two years, and so I'm very, very excited to get to go on
(00:40):
this journey with you all.
Our goal isn't all that complexwe want to create a platform to
inspire and empower the nextgeneration of Salesforce
administrators.
So in this podcast, we're goingto dive deep into the world of
being a Salesforce administrator, and we'll have the opportunity
to interview some amazingpeople in the ecosystem who are
(01:02):
trailblazing their careers andreshaping what it means to be an
admin.
We're going to talk throughtheir stories of success, learn
what skills and knowledge theyneeded to grow and excel in
their careers, and also talkthrough the latest trends and
technologies driving innovationfor the admin of tomorrow.
With that said, we want this tobe more than just a learning
(01:25):
experience.
We want it to be a community.
We want to hear from you, wewant to hear from your friends.
We don't want it to just be asilo of voices, so please feel
free to share your thoughts,questions and stories with us.
Together, we're going tonavigate what it means to be an
admin of tomorrow, so weappreciate you tuning in,
(01:46):
whether you're working from yourhome office, driving to an
office or your after worklistening.
We really appreciate you beinghere and it's time to dive on in
.
I'm so excited to introduce thevery first guest for admins of
tomorrow, haley Tuller.
I've had the opportunity to getto know and work directly with
Haley over the last two and ahalf years and I can say this
(02:09):
interview does not disappoint.
We're going to have the chanceto talk through how Haley got
started becoming a Salesforceadmin, as well as some tips and
tricks that they use to learnand grow and develop more in the
ecosystem.
Before we dive into theinterview, I just want to give a
quick intro.
Haley Tuller is one of theco-founders of Navigators, a
(02:30):
Salesforce service deliverypartner specializing in digital
transformation for nonprofits,higher education and public
sector entities.
Haley is the co-leader andfounder of the Salesforce
Jacksonville Nonprofit UserGroup, a member of the founding
team behind the SalesforceCommunity Conference, nonprofit
Dreaming, and an occasionalblogger and office hours leader
(02:52):
with military trailblazers,formerly known as VetForce.
Haley also volunteers as acoach with the Maribus
Foundation, helping veterans andmilitary spouses launch
Salesforce careers.
And without further ado, pleasewelcome Haley Tuller.
But no, I'm really happy thatyou were willing to jump on,
(03:29):
absolutely.
No, like I was saying, this issomething I've been wanting to
do for a while and, like I said,whether it's something I just
want to hear my own.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Okay, but this is a great premise, though, like this
is really this is great.
It's a good time for it, too.
Like I feel like I should savethis, for I don't know, maybe
I'm not saving it, but greatpremise, because I am not
convinced that there is enoughfocus put on specifically how we
(03:59):
showcase more of these freshvoices.
You saw some of the notes thatI sent you, yeah, so I think
it's a great idea.
I think I don't think anybody'sdoing anything remotely like it
.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Well, and I like the idea too that I want these
informal conversations, so likeI may leave this part in, I may
take it out, but I like havingthis kind of.
This is just a conversation topeople who are in the ecosystem,
who really we've workedtogether just because we have
that relationship.
But we do two very differentthings in the ecosystem and I
(04:32):
see so many of these podcasts,whether they're run by a company
or they're run by a trailblazer, but they are about the
technology and more about, like,what is Salesforce doing for
the ecosystem instead of whatare the people doing within the
Salesforce ecosystem.
So those are the ones I like toread.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, yeah, I listen to the ones I love.
You know it's defunct now.
I think they kind of burned outon it and for a long time.
You know Melissa did that.
You know the two wit podcast.
I don't know if you everlistened to that one.
No it's been gone for a whilenow, but it was one of the
really one of the OGs and it wasvery much just two people
(05:14):
having a conversation and Ireally liked that.
It felt like you were just inthe room with some friends,
right.
And those are the podcasts thatI really enjoy because they
really give me kind of aninsight into how other people
think about things and theybring fresh perspectives.
I don't feel like there's asmuch gained.
You know this is that whole.
(05:35):
I'm all over the place.
But you know, that whole conceptof like T shaped people right,
we talked about this a lot atSir Conte.
It's a big premise of how SirConte encourages people's
development.
But that idea of the T shapedperson, of the really deep in a
particular area but they have abroad set of interests across
the top of the T, it's a reallypowerful paradigm.
I think that there's a lot ofgreat material out there.
(05:57):
That is the bottom of the T,but I think part of the reason
why we all enjoy events so muchis because that's the top.
You know, that's the time whereyou get to like mix with lots
of different people and seewhat's going on in different
places in the ecosystem, and Ithink the podcasts in the
Salesforce ecosystem are attheir best when they do that,
(06:17):
when they bring togetherdifferent kinds of people from
different kinds of corners andthey kind of mix and share on
stuff that you wouldn'totherwise like learn about.
That's where, to me, that is aplus.
I really enjoy that.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Well, without further ado, then, I do want to, like I
said before, thank you so muchfor joining.
Whenever I first kind ofthought about doing this podcast
, my first thought was I don'twant to just talk to all the
same marketers.
I definitely plan on bringingthem on and talking to them, but
who is someone who has had avery unique story of being in an
(06:52):
admin space, a nonprofit space,a marketing space and also, to
that same effect, starting yourown business in?
Thankfully it wasn't likemiddle of COVID, but starting
your own business in general issomething super scary.
Starting your own business thatspecializes in Salesforce,
which is a market that alreadyhas a lot of players too, is
(07:15):
equally scary.
Also, kind of understandingfrom you your journey to get to
that start to finish, for, like,what brought you into the
ecosystem, what made you think Iwant to go down this route,
what insights you can provide tothe future.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, no, I think you know, I always feel like this
is a really good place to start,because one of the things I
love about this line of businessis everyone has such a wacky
backstory, and I think that's sogreat.
I think it's part of whyworking in this industry is so
interesting.
It's because we really do havepeople that are from like all
over the place, right, I havemet very few people who
(07:54):
literally were like I have acomputer science degree and then
I did this.
I don't think that's a reallycommon you know road and I think
we're richer for it.
So I would, I would definitelysay, a fall in that category.
So I am also a mid-career, amid-life career shift right,
which I think this industry isalso very friendly to.
(08:16):
So I like those stories and Ilike hearing them elevated.
For that reason, right.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
With all that being said, I'd love to kind of dive
into what was that?
What was that original careerpath to you and what brought you
into that Salesforce ecosystem?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
So I'm definitely a proud accidental admin, right,
and I feel like there has been abit of a backlash on that term
I think well-intentionedbacklash.
But but lately I feel like youhear a lot of people say, oh,
don't say accidental admin,because it implies you didn't
work at it.
But I think that what ismissing sometimes is to remind
(08:55):
people how random these thingsare sometimes.
So there were all more.
Our eyes are more opened to thepossibilities that we do
sometimes see in front ofourselves.
So I definitely came into itworking at a nonprofit and I'm
skipping a bit of history there,though people who know me know
that this was not my firstcareer.
So I actually spent 20 years inthe military.
(09:18):
I was in the Navy for 20 years.
I joined the Navy straight outof high school.
So I enlisted because I wasfrom the Midwest and I wanted to
see the world check jobaccomplished.
And I spent 20 years kind oftraveling all over the world.
First half of my career waspredominantly in Europe.
My post-911 career half to meit's kind of bifurcated in the
(09:42):
middle.
I'm a many times over veteranof both Iraq and Afghanistan.
Served in both of thoseconflicts for extended periods
of time.
I have the better bit of abouteight years deployed basically
between those two spaces.
So I retired in 2012.
At the time, I was workingYemen and Horn of Africa when I
(10:03):
retired.
So when I got out of the Navy,I still had the same problem I
had that made me join the Navy,which is that I didn't know what
I wanted to be when I grew up.
So I said you know what the GIBill seems like.
A good idea, let's put off thisdecision for a little while so
I went to college.
I got my degree in sociologywith a minor in economics,
(10:25):
simply because it pleased me,because I wanted to learn things
that I was interested in, had ablast, loved it, did it too
quickly.
If I could go back and do itagain I would go slower because
I had a really good time and atthe end of it I was like, okay,
now I really do have to get ajob.
So I was really drawn toworking in nonprofits.
(10:46):
To me it felt like a reallynatural segue.
So I certainly, you know I camefrom 20 years of military
service.
I had a service mindset.
I felt like that was my valueset.
I wanted to do somethingproductive and that gave back
and I also had a real passionfor wanting to do something very
local and that supported mycommunity.
(11:07):
So one of the things that'salways a challenge when you're
in the military as you moveevery like if you're lucky only
every couple of years, sometimesmore.
So I wanted to feel kind ofrooted and do something more
hyper local.
So I started working innonprofits and one of the first
nonprofits that I worked in Imade friends with a guy who ran
the database and I would helphim out with stuff and I said,
(11:30):
oh, this is for me.
I like this right Like messingaround with the data and coming
up with you know what was neededto support decision-making and
to make people's experienceunique.
At the time, I was working at mylocal symphony so there's a
symphony here in Jacksonvilleand I was working as the front
desk at the symphony and theyused that data to create amazing
(11:57):
experiences for symphony goersand I really was fascinated by
it and just completely latchedonto it and fell in love.
So I started chasing that andwhile I worked at a hospital
foundation running a razor'sedge implementation and worked
on a number of different systems, I was on Bloomerang at one
point and then I found a role atmy local here in Jacksonville.
(12:21):
There is an organization thatserves as a local rape crisis
response center.
So you sometimes see thesephone numbers that people who
are victims of sexual assaultcan call and they can get
advocacy and support.
We were that organization andthey struggled with having you
know, it's a story we've allheard a million times multiple
databases that don't talk toeach other and intensely manual
(12:42):
processes and having to shuttledata.
We've all heard this a milliontimes.
So they were looking forsomeone really to work on that
problem and I was drawn to itimmediately and started
researching what might be thebest option and I stumbled on
this thing called Salesforce andI was like, okay, why is it
called Salesforce?
(13:04):
It took me a while to kind ofunderstand it and I fell in love
, like a lot of people.
I got bit by the bug and wasjust really passionate about its
flexibility to solve lots ofdifferent problems.
For me, the light bulb came onwhen my AE showed me the app
exchange actually and I realized, yeah, and that was when I
(13:27):
realized how packaging workedand that you could build and
install things in almost aLego-like manner and I realized
that Salesforce would not onlysolve, like our current problems
, but potentially problems inthe future.
We didn't even know we had yetright, and so that part to me,
oh yeah, the flexibility of itwas just like yes, this is for
(13:47):
me.
So we did an implementation.
It was totally amazing.
I had a great experience.
I ran it for about a year.
It was all I wanted to do Forfolks that work in nonprofits.
My hat is off to you because,of course, nonprofit people
always have to wear lots ofthose hats and they're always
doing lots of different things.
(14:08):
I really struggled with beingasked to do a bunch of stuff
that had nothing to do withSalesforce, but all I wanted to
do was Salesforce.
I eventually made the jump intoconsulting so I could do it
exclusively.
That's how I stumbled intoSalesforce Nonprofit-centric
consulting.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I love how you started, that of people say
being an accidental admin meansyou looked your way into it.
I mean, to an extent that'strue, but that doesn't mean you
don't grow and earn and developyour way into it and that your
other experiences haven't shapedyou in a way for this.
I do have to ask, because I'veasked this question to a lot of
(14:47):
other people are you a big fanof doing puzzles?
Oh, absolutely Okay, because Ifeel like the person who loves
solving puzzles, who loves tofigure out how to make this
thing, that shouldn't force ittogether like a puzzle piece.
That's a perfect Salesforceadmin, developer, manager, the
(15:09):
people who really just want tosee oh, there are three gaps
here.
Well, to do that, we have toconnect A and B and you have to
rotate this around this way andyou have to jump three times and
bat your head and rub yourbelly, and you have to be able
to do all these different thingsto get it to work.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It's so funny how your brain can be trained in
some of those ways, and for meit seems like a weird shift for
a lot of people.
But this is something I don'toften get a chance to talk about
or share much.
But when I was in the service Iwas a linguist and a
cryptographer, so the job I didand did in the later half of my
(15:48):
career from a battlefield wasessentially sophisticated
problem solving aroundcryptography and in particular I
specialized in personalcommunication systems, so how
you can hack cell phones andgeolocate people and do a lot of
really fun stuff like that wasthe kind of problem I was doing
in those days.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
On one hand, I'm so fascinated, on the other, I'm
super scared.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
You know what?
There are no super secrets,right?
Speaker 1 (16:21):
The reality is, this is actually.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
You know it's not.
I'm kind of one of those peoplethat giggles a little bit at
conspiracy theories because,having served 20 years in the
military, we can barely getourselves from point A to point
B.
Trust me, the power andstructure necessary for that
level of conspiracy theory Notpossible, not in government work
(16:44):
.
Yeah, but I was a puzzle solverin my old job right, that was
really what I did, and so yourbrain can really be trained that
way.
And I think so much of the keyof what attracts people like us.
It's not an accident that manyof us are Lego people, so shout
out to our hiring our heroes.
(17:05):
Fellow that just joined us,trent Wayland, is a big Lego guy
, and whenever I meet Legopeople I'm all like, ooh, you
are a Salesforce architect inthe making.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
We're gonna get along .
Speaker 2 (17:17):
You don't know it, then yeah, but I think you're
right, I absolutely do.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Knowing that you, I think what you had said to me at
another conference was love atfirst app.
I mean, I'm with you.
The app exchange is so amazing.
I was kind of on the oppositeside of it.
I was a little daunting becausethere were so many applications
to choose from.
But, that being said, I'mcurious and I think I know the
answer.
But for those folks at homeunderstanding, like when you
(17:46):
first learn that, oh, this iswhat this can all do, this is
how powerful the solution is, Iwant to dive deeper.
What gave you that?
Or I guess first off one whydid you want to dive deeper?
But also, how did you divedeeper?
What were some of the resourcesand things you used?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So what made me want to do it?
I don't know, sheer audacity.
You know, on a certain level oflike, you see, the power of
what's possible, and I justwanted it.
I wanted the ability to buildthose things and deliver them to
people who were busy doing workthat the world needed and to
(18:25):
some extent, also really similarto my old line of work.
You see a problem and you knowthere needs to be a tool, and
you know that you can build thattool.
If you can just knuckle downand figure it out, oof, how do
you walk away from that?
You know I could not have saidno to it.
I was attracted like a moth tothe flame, you know.
(18:47):
So for me it has always beenabout what could this make
possible?
And I think that vision that weall have around, whatever the
problems are and the things thatwe want to solve, is what
drives us to the audacity ofbelieving we can, and I love
that.
I want that level of audacityfor everyone.
(19:10):
So I think it's a great thing.
As far as what I used right.
So I definitely my hat is offto the people who are like I got
into Salesforce beforeTrailhead, right.
I cannot claim that.
I definitely would not fall inthat category.
But when I was first gettingstarted, I will tell you my
(19:32):
greatest resource right and partof the reason I chose much of
my career path.
Later, when we did ourimplementation, we used a
partner.
So we had a partner and it wasnot like a huge contract, it was
really just a fairlystraightforward and narrow
implementation.
But I really believe in thepower of the institution of the
(19:56):
partner, because having somebodythere, essentially as your, as
your ride or die right, somebodywho has a vested interest in
your success, who is ascommitted to that implementation
as you are, somebody that youcan go to and get that kind of
mentorship and help andempowerment, to my mind is the
best example of what the partnerprogram can be.
(20:17):
When we sat down and and I'mskipping ahead a little bit, I
guess, but when Dustin and Imade the decision to start our
company, we started working onthe name.
You know it is really hard toname a company and if you
haven't tried, it's really hard.
All the good URLs are taken.
Man, I'm telling you and we wereally worked on that for a long
(20:38):
time because we were trying tocapture that.
And then the metaphor we chosewas navigators, because that's
how I see a partner, right, myclients, the people in the
nonprofits.
They're on a journey.
Right, they're trying to getfrom point A to point B, they're
trying to accomplish something.
They have had that moment ofthe audacity to want to build
the tool right.
(20:59):
We are not the captains of thatship, we are not the people
steering, I'm not the pilot, butI am a trusted wayfinder.
And that, to me, is whenpartners are at their best.
Right Is when they are not thepeople on the journey, but they
are the people empowering thejourney.
And so we chose that name verydeliberately for that reason.
And for me, you know, havingthat relationship was a huge
(21:23):
empowerment initially and mademe believe I could do it.
I did not find TrailheadMilitary and Marivus and many of
these other organizations untilmuch later in my career and, of
course, at that point I jumpedin with both feet because I had
found my tribe.
I do want to give a shout outto Amplify, right, some people
(21:43):
may be familiar with Amplify.
Amplify is a great nonprofitthat serves women and people who
identify as women who arewanting to start Salesforce
careers.
They have a study group program, which is A-plus and it is.
It's a really good, safe spaceplace to ask the dumb questions
(22:03):
and get your start in Salesforce.
And I got my admincertification in an Amplify
study group.
So that was that was the firstlike formal program I really
took advantage of.
A little while after that Istumbled into Salesforce
Military because I met CatherineClark at a community conference
.
I was up for an adrement sogave my very first talk at a
(22:28):
community conference and metCatherine Clark afterwards and
found Trailhead military andthen after that got plugged into
Maravis and moved forward.
So one of the things I alwaystell people when they're getting
started find your tribe right.
They're there, I promise you.
I don't care where you'recoming from I don't care.
(22:48):
I don't care if you used to be anurse, I don't care if you're a
theater kid, I don't care ifyou're a construction guy.
I don't care, your tribe ishere right, and so one of the
things I usually tell people istry to find your tribe right,
because that group of people isgoing to be a huge help to you
in that journey.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
No, I absolutely agree with that.
It's funny to hear this stuff asI've evolved with my career,
because I mean for me, when Ifirst started I very much had
the mentality of I'm going tolearn what I need to be
successful in my job and nothingelse Did not value certs, did
not value the trailblazercommunity.
And it wasn't until I wasprobably about four years in did
(23:31):
I realize oh, jacob, youwonderful little dumb dumb you
like just realizing how amazingand open this community is.
So one of the questions I hadwhich I love that you kind of
already organically answered wasall around in-house work versus
partners and I used to think,oh, I just, it's too much money,
(23:53):
they're just trying to.
They're just like any otherbusiness, they're just trying to
make a profit off me.
I can learn this on my own, butkind of understanding that
value between do it yourself andworking with that company who
knows their stuff.
So I'm curious your take onthat kind of dichotomy between,
(24:14):
oh, I can just do this myselfand no, I want a company or a
professional who can, I canlearn from in addition to the
trailblazer community.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, yeah.
That's a really good way ofputting it too, because I think
the thing we're all dancingaround is the missing equation.
The missing piece of thisequation is time, right?
So could you, as a solononprofit admin at a nonprofit?
at any organization, right at abusiness, whatever, sit down and
say I'm going to figure thisstuff out, I'm going to use the
(24:43):
tools that are available and Iwill develop these skills.
Haya is 맛이, I'm going to setthe estable, the Aaa, abb.
So, frickin' lulley, yes, youcan right, that is 100% possible
the power of bringing in atrusted partner and working with
someone who already has theestablished credentials and has
(25:05):
done this several times asyou're going to avoid those
pitfalls.
Practically everyone listeningto this, right, if I just say
the words marketing, usercheckbox most everyone is going
to have a visceral reaction tothat stupid little checkbox on
the user record.
Right that at some point earlyon in your journey you realize
(25:28):
and, by the way, if you haven'trealized it yet, let me save you
some pain, I did a little freeconsulting for you- you can?
I don't care what your profilesays.
I don't care what yourpermission sets are.
If that box is not checked,that person cannot make
campaigns right.
And it's such a weird encounter,intuitive thing, links and
artifact of older things and thearchitecture.
(25:48):
But Salesforce is riddled withlittle things like that.
I mean it's unavoidable becauseit is such a complex system,
but when you work with a partner, you kind of zip past a lot of
those painful rights of passage,right, and so I think that's a
lot of what they bring to thetable.
So sometimes it makes a lot ofsense right To invest
(26:09):
financially and building thatcapacity faster, getting from
point A to point B faster, sothat you and the organization
can then really focus your timein on the things that only you
can do.
I often tell my clients that Iam like an outboard motor on
your canoe.
Right, I can make this canoe goreally fast, but you still have
to steer.
They have got to, from withinthe organization, set their
(26:31):
strategy, set the prioritiesright, figure out how they want
to measure ROI, figure out howthey define the success of the
project.
I can't do any of that, butonce they've done that work, I
can get us there a whole lotfaster, and I think that's a lot
of the difference really 100%agree and I've told people this
at user group meetings that ifyou have the opportunity, see if
(26:55):
you can talk your company intohiring a consultancy.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yes, I get that there's costs involved and not
every company has that budget,but for you it also depends on
how you learn.
But for me personally, I learnby getting in a dev work,
getting my hands dirty andbreaking my toys and then
putting those toys back together.
And so for me, being able towork with a consultancy, learn
(27:19):
from them, get theirrecommendations, like you said
with Amplify, being able to findtheir own company groups, learn
from them and then also makethose networks to make that next
step.
So for people who are justgetting into the ecosystem, who
are accidental admins, but alsopeople who want to do this who
(27:39):
are not accidental admins, I'vealways recommended that, if you
have the ability to jump downthat route and get that partner
but, that being said, to thosewho don't have that luxury, who
just maybe the company can't, itdoesn't have Salesforce and
you're trying to branch out toyour own Salesforce bubble,
(28:00):
that's not even remotely relatedto the current industry you're
in.
What are some things yourecommend for people trying to
get their service, trying to getin the ecosystem, how to learn
all the things Cause.
For me that's always been a bigpain, pain.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
So I think a lot of this.
I think there's two layers tothis right.
I think there's a layer ofwhere we talk about advice I
have around how to learn how tolearn right At a very basic
level, and then I think there'sanother layer at which we can
answer this and say here aresome of the resources that I
really like to use right, andthat second one's super useful
(28:37):
right, but it will not be usefulto you until you start to
figure out how to learn how tolearn right.
And I was one of those kidsthat when I went through high
school it wasn't terribly hardand I didn't try very hard.
I just went to a regular Midwestpublic high school and pretty
much could whip out my homeworkon the bus, and that was the end
(28:59):
of that.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
So when I first came in the I'm so envious of that.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Well, it bit me later , man, because when I enlisted
in the Navy and I was classed tobe a linguist, they sent me
into language school, so I didnot speak a foreign language.
When I joined the military,they gave me a placement test
and somehow got the crazy ideathat I could be a linguist and
literally plucked me out of abasic training one day and said
(29:25):
hey, you did really get on thisplacement test, do you want to
be a linguist?
And I said what they actuallycalled it by the technical name
of the job, which was the CTI,and I said well, what is that?
And they said it's acryptologic, technician
interpretive.
And I said what is that?
And they said we don't know.
It's something to do withlanguages.
And this is a little.
Again, I'm gonna do a call backto why conspiracy theories will
(29:49):
never work, because this is howthe government really works.
Literally they were like wedon't know, but the school is in
California and I said, ooh,sign me up.
So they sent me to languageschool.
I went to Monterey, california,to the Presidio of Monterey,
and I studied Arabic there.
So that was the first time thatI actually really had to learn
how to learn right, because itwas hard.
(30:11):
You get the equivalent of fouryears of a college degree,
basically in like a year andthree months.
And the way it works in themilitary is if you try, if you
make an effort right and youdon't make it through a course,
you get what's called a LOE or alack of effort.
People can't see I'm airquoting right now.
Everything's got an acronym inthe military.
So I will try really hard notto do that.
(30:32):
But if you go through a courseand you don't make it but you
tried, right.
If the finding is that you gaveit a shot, you tried, right,
they will find you another job,right, they'll go.
Okay, this isn't for you, right?
Maybe we'll send you over hereand you can be an Intel
specialist or you can be this oryou can be whatever, right?
If you fail a course and thefinding is what's called lack of
(30:56):
effort, right?
Or an LOE buckle up buttercup,it ain't gonna be good for you,
they're gonna give you aterrible job.
And when I was at languageschool in those days, there was
a huge mural of an aircraftcarrier on the quarter deck the
quarter deck's like the lobby,basically, of the barracks and
we had to walk past it every dayon our way to class.
(31:18):
And every day we walk past thishuge mural of an aircraft
carrier and it had a big, boldfont at the bottom of it you
fail, you sail.
So let's say it was a motivator.
So I had to really fast learnhow to learn right, because I
had never really done it.
So I think that I think firstof all, I would tell people give
(31:40):
yourself some grace, right,there's a really good chance.
You've never really been in aposition where you had to learn
how you learn right.
So I would start withunderstand that that may be part
of the gap.
If you're trying and you'replaying around with materials
and things aren't really sinkingin, maybe you just haven't
figured out what your techniquesare.
Talk to more people about theirtechniques and how they like to
(32:04):
study.
That may help you spin the dialand figure out what's your
process right, because what's myprocess isn't everybody else's
process.
Different people learndifferently, right?
So I think that that's a reallyimportant piece, and I think
some people get reallyfrustrated and stuck early on
because they just haven'tfigured out their own technique.
For me, I am a very systematiclearner, so when I first start
(32:25):
exploring something new, right,I go initially to trailhead.
That's like my first stop,right.
I just I wanna get a little, Iwanna get a taste.
Right, I just wanna get inthere and get a little teaser.
I'll do some trailheads.
I'll start to figure out what'swhat right, get a little bit of
a sense of the structure,decide if I'm gonna keep going.
Is this what I thought it was.
(32:46):
Is this really what I wannalearn?
Is this the solution for theproblem I'm trying to solve
right now?
Whatever, right, that's myinitial dip.
Then I'm the kind of personthat I go find the documentation
and I literally sit there and Iread the documentation.
Right, I'm one of those nerds.
I'm pushing my glasses up.
You can't see but.
I'm one of those nerds thatactually reads the release notes
(33:06):
like every release.
So I just that's just how mybrain works Like I need
structure, I need somebody to gofirst this and then this and
then this, right, and I'll readthrough the documentation.
Admittedly, I may skim some ofit kind of fast, right, but I'll
run through the documentationand then I start studying for
(33:27):
the cert, right?
So the last step for me is,once I've at least read through
the documentation, once I getout the cert and I use the study
guide.
I literally copy and paste thestudy guide into a document and
I start sticking my notes in theappropriate places in the study
guide.
So I use the study guide, I usecerts like a framework.
I need a framework right ofknowledge, a taxonomy if you
(33:52):
will and then I fling knowledgeat that and that's how I
structure and organize thingsand learn from there.
So I think people always havethis sense of like there's some
sort of magical resource outthere and I just haven't found
it yet.
I hate to tell you.
In my book it's thedocumentation.
Yeah, I talk to people all thetime and they say I'm really
(34:12):
struggling to learn this and Igo well, have you read the
documentation?
No, I don't know.
I'm gonna try.
It can be a lot.
Maybe you're just gonna do alittle snippet every day, right?
I don't think that there's anymagic answers here, other than
figure out how you like to learnright and respect how your
(34:33):
brain works and respect whatworks for you, right.
But there is no substitute forjust going to the documentation
and reading it through andunderstanding what's happening.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Nope, and I think that is more daunting than
people Like.
People think, oh, I'm justgonna go in and then you read it
.
It can be really daunting andit can be really.
I mean, I feel like I've talkedto my wife about this many
times we're pretty sure I havesome sort of undiagnosed ADHD,
because I get massive analysis,paralysis.
(35:05):
I get in very much.
I look at the documentation andI just see how daunting it is
and I just kind of freeze.
It's why I haven't watchedcertain TV shows that are like
30 seasons long, because I startfreaking out and getting legit
anxiety of just like, oh, I haveto consume and get down that
(35:25):
much content, whoa boy.
So for me, I've always been alook at the documentation if I
can't break it and figure outhow to reassemble it.
So, like I'm the guy whodoesn't look at instructions
when he buys a new piece of IKEAfurniture, I figure it out as
I'm building and if I mess upalong the way, then we're going
to the notes.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Okay, my business partner is like you.
He is what we call an inductivelearner, so he does the same
thing.
He breaks things and then putsthem back together and then
extrapolates from that what hewants to know.
I approach it moresystematically and again that
goes back to that respect, tothe way that you like to learn.
I think the other thing that'sworth saying here too, is we
have, I think perhaps maybe inthis community, built up a bit
(36:10):
of a culture that minimizes howmuch work learning is right.
Salesforce really tries hard toremind everybody or to say to
push this idea of this is easyand it is.
Compared to other platforms itis easy, right?
Well, it is easier.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
I was asked that.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
That's where I wanted to go with it, comparatively
speaking, yeah, yeah yeah, it'scomparatively easier, but that's
not the same thing as sayingit's easy, and I often see
people I think you know we oftenlook.
If you go on to the SalesforceReddit today, I guarantee you
half those posts will be aboutwhether or not certifications
(36:52):
are BS or not right, which isbetter.
How many certifications shouldyou have?
Like, there really is so muchangst around people who and I'm
not necessarily saying it's bad,but this idea of I'm simply
gonna pass as many tests as Ican right Creates this belief
that, at least for most people,these should not be that hard,
(37:15):
and that is a distortion, right.
This stuff is hard, yep.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
I love that.
I absolutely love that.
So, with all of, we've talkedabout a lot of different things,
I guess, knowing that we arenearing the end of our fun time
on this journey.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
but I know it's a fun little journey.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
I hate saying like the very stereotypical podcast
host guy.
I'm not writing secrets, y'all.
I'm a Texan who says y'all.
But I think, knowing we arenearing the end of that time, I
want to kind of end it on a whatis a recommendation for people
new to the ecosystem?
So I look at it as when I wasfirst getting started again, I
(37:58):
just went straight into.
This is a tool for work.
I'm gonna learn it for work andnothing more.
And I wish someone gave me theadvice of what do you think the
greatest value you can get fromthe user community, from the
overall Salesforce Trailblazercommunity, when you're just
getting started?
Speaker 2 (38:16):
It's a great question .
Find the thing and the venuewhere you can teach.
I don't care how junior you are, I don't care how new your
journey is, there is somebodythat is further behind than you,
there is somebody that you canteach to.
(38:36):
One of the easiest venues to dothis is user groups, or
whatever we're calling themthese days.
I guess their trailblazersuperstar astrolightning.
I was about to say it's just a.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Salesforce thing.
The name constantly changes.
I'll say user groups.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
User groups are often a really great venue for this,
Joining different types oforganizations, things like
Merivis coaching people who arenewer in the ecosystem.
No matter what, there is aspace, there is somebody you can
give back to.
There's somebody else that youcan teach and help along.
That is obviously, to a certainextent, an obligation that we
(39:18):
all have, that the magic of thisecosystem is that everybody is
generous with their time andhelps each other.
Being a part of this is owninga piece of that and having that
obligation, but I'll also sayit's incredibly even power.
There's no better feeling thanwhen you've learned something,
than to turn around and share it.
(39:39):
The joy of learning ismultiplied in the teaching and
the sharing.
There's no better satisfactionthan when you can say I figured
this thing out and I'm going toturn around and share it.
It's a great way to challengeyourself, to push your own
learning too.
If there's an area you reallywant to learn about, there's no
better way to learn somethingthan to have to teach it.
Seek out opportunities to coachand mentor and teach other
(40:05):
people.
Don't ever feel like, whereveryou are on your journey, you
have something you can give back.
Everybody does.
Don't feel like that's only forother people.
Find that space, find somebodyelse to help challenge yourself.
Submit to speak at events, goto your user groups, raise your
hand.
I'll teach a topic at usergroup.
(40:25):
Whatever you just learned, youcan share it with somebody that
doesn't yet know it 100 percentagree with that.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
It's so funny because the people who are now the no
longer the admins of tomorrow,but the admins for today are the
people who, just organically,were seeking that out.
I'm actively submitting tospeak at dreamin' events.
I'm actively trying toparticipate at Dreamforce,
(40:55):
whether I'm speaking or justdoing a circle of success
session, where you're justleading a table of
conversationalists and thentrying to help guide people down
a path, or even on theTrailblazer community website.
When people ask a question,jump on in and be willing to
answer an anonymous question,just finding those ways to what
(41:20):
Hailey said.
challenge yourself, because Ispeak from my kind of video game
love of like.
Whenever I complete a level ordo something that's really
challenging, the first thing Iwant to do is be like wife honey
, come see the thing I did, comesee the thing I did.
And there's very much a.
I don't know if it'spsychological.
(41:42):
I don't want to go superanalytical on this but I do
think there's a level of kind oflike in your childhood, getting
that validation and recognitionto let you know you're on the
right path and that never goesaway.
I don't care what age you are, Idon't care if you're 15, 30, 45
, 60, 70, you're alwayssubconsciously trying to find
(42:04):
that validation to get approval,and so I love the idea of
finding seek out teachingopportunities.
Don't wait until you become theexpert 10 years down the line.
Do it day one.
Absolutely no.
Oh well, hailey, I reallyappreciate you taking the time
(42:25):
and this definitely won't be thelast of our conversations.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
But it has to be the last one for a day because we
all have to carry on with otherthings.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
But again, thank you so much and we'll be sharing
with you soon.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
It was absolutely a pleasure.
Thank you so much, and I can'twait to see all the great
episodes you're going to make.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
I appreciate it.
What an amazing interview thatwas.
Oh, thank you so much to Haileyfor being our guest on our
(43:05):
premier episode, and thank youto you, the listener, who stuck
around to hear us in our outro.
We really appreciate youjoining us.
So just remember, as we gothrough and move forward with
our podcast series, your voicematters.
We want to hear your thoughts,hear your questions and even
your success stories, so pleasefeel free to connect with us on
social media, shoot us an emailor, wherever you're listening to
(43:27):
this, leave a review.
Your feedback really doesmatter and helps me shape the
future of this show.
And speaking of the future,don't miss our upcoming episodes
.
We'll be launching a newepisode weekly, so keep an eye
out for that, as we dive intomore exciting topics, feature
more incredible guests andexplore the ever-evolving world
of being a Salesforce admin.
(43:49):
So stay tuned for more to comeand stay inspired.
Once again, I'm Jacob Catalano,your host, signing off.
We appreciate you for listeningto Admins of Tomorrow,
trailblazing the next generation.
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