June 3, 2025 • 44 mins
Listen to our Summit Session with Linda Åkeson McGurk, acclaimed journalist, parenting expert, and author of There's No Such Thing As Bad Weather.
In this inspiring conversation, Linda dives into how her Scandinavian upbringing shaped her nature-forward parenting philosophy. Discover why a little rain, snow, or mud shouldn't keep children indoors, and how embracing outdoor play in all seasons boosts emotional regulation, physical development, and resilience. Learn how to foster confidence and connection in children by simply stepping outside.
This session covers:
- The benefits of outdoor play in all weather conditions.
- Strategies to shift from "weather worrier" to "weather warrior."
- Tools for nannies and caregivers to incorporate nature-based routines year-round.
- The cultural concept of friluftsliv (open-air life) and how to adapt it to your daily nannying practice.
Whether you're a parent, educator, or nanny looking to brave the elements and bring more joy and freedom into your work, this replay offers practical tips and valuable mindset shifts from a leading voice in outdoor parenting.
Connect with Linda: https://rainorshinemamma.com/
Please note: Adventure Nannies is not a medical or child development expert. This session provides educational insights based on Linda McGurk’s experiences and expertise, designed to support your learning and spark ideas you can explore further in your own childcare practice.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Adventure Nannies On Air.
Today's episode was recordedlive during one of our Summit
Sessions as a part of our freeongoing educational webinar
series to support nannies andprofessional child care
providers to elevate theircareers and enhance their skills
.
If you like what you hear, youcan catch the full episode on
our YouTube channel or registerfor our next Summit Session at
adventurenanniescom slash summitdash sessions.
(00:22):
Welcome to today's SummitSession.
I'm so excited to be here.
My name is Regan Fulton, I'mthe Marketing Director for
Adventure Nannies and today wehave the incredible Linda Merker
with us.
Linda is one of my favoriteauthors and an advocate for
outdoor play.
She's written two books aboutparenting and outdoor living no
such thing as bad weather andopen air life which you see my
(00:46):
copy here, with all sticky notesand tabs, is a life manual that
everyone should have.
Drawing from both researchersand her own experiences.
She's here to share herinsights on how we can all
encourage love for nature in theoutdoors and for the children.
Therefore, so welcome Linda.
It's so wonderful to have youhere.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Thank you so much for inviting me.
I'm honored to be here andobviously familiar with
Adventure Nannies theorganization, since I've just
blurred the book and it was lotsof fun to read everybody's
stories and that.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Absolutely yeah.
We wanted to have Linda be ableto be one of our pre-readers
and give us a for the back ofour book, and we've also had the
pleasure of having her as asponsor for Nanny Camp.
We got to give out copies ofher book to our Nanny Camp
attendees Just so excited tohave her here today to teach all
of you.
So just a couple ofhousekeeping notes before we get
started is this is beingrecorded.
(01:43):
It will be available as apodcast If you have to pop out
at any point, if you miss theend or if you won't learn so
much that you want to share withyour friends.
It'll be available both onYouTube and wherever you listen
to podcasts and, with that beingthe case, just make sure you
please keep yourself muted.
I'll try to keep an eye on ittoo, but if you can keep
yourself muted, that way we canget a clear recording of Linda.
(02:04):
And if you have any questions,pop them in the chat.
I'll be monitoring the chat andat the end we'll circle back
and I'll ask Linda all thoseawesome questions.
So let's get started.
Linda, to just get us started,tell us a little bit more about
your journey, how you got hereand what led you to be
passionate about outdoor playand I'm going to let you say it,
(02:26):
because I butcher it every timeI say it the F word free enough
, sleep, open air life yes.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So I want to start by saying I'm an accidental author
.
I am a journalist and a writer.
Am a journalist and a writer.
I grew up in Sweden in a veryoutdoorsy culture but because it
was so ingrained in our cultureto be outside from infancy,
babies nap outside at daycareand preschool.
(02:56):
Children play outdoors most ofthe day at forest school and
also in regular preschools, andwe also spend a lot of time
outdoors with friends and family, just in our free time, and I
never thought of our family asparticularly outdoorsy, even
though my parents would take mehiking and camping in the
summertime and sledding andskiing and ice skating in the
(03:19):
wintertime.
That's just what everybody did,so we weren't special that way.
And then when I was in my 20s,I moved to the US and I had my
children there.
I have two daughters and ofcourse I noticed when I moved
there.
We lived in Indiana.
I lived there for 15 years andI noticed that it was a little
(03:40):
different.
The culture was different andpeople didn't seem to go outside
as much.
They didn't seem to think thatwas a thing Like I had grown up
thinking that, or I was alwaystold fresh air is good for you,
and we go outside every day.
There's no such thing as badweather, only bad clothes.
And in Indiana it seemed likepeople were hibernating,
(04:00):
especially during the coldseason.
So when I had my first daughterand I took her out on the
stroller in the wintertime, Igot some reactions from people
in the community.
Some people thought I was bravefor being out there in the cold
temperatures, and othersthought I was reckless because
they thought it was dangerous.
(04:20):
And then a few even took pityon me and offered me rides.
They thought my car had brokendown and were being, of course,
midwestern nice.
So this sort of culture clashmade me realize that if I wanted
my daughter to have a childhoodanything like my own, I had to
(04:41):
actively try and immerse her inthe culture that I grew up in.
So that's how it started.
So I went from being afreelance writer working on
stories about corn and soybeanprices and the harvest to
thinking about writing a bookabout the Scandinavian culture
and, above all, like how theplace of nature in childhood,
(05:05):
because having a natureconnection is really considered
essential in Swedish andScandinavian parenting and
culture.
So that's how I ended upwriting my first book and then
that kind of took off, and thenmy second book came out five
years later and then, actuallyin 2018, I moved back to Sweden,
so that's where I live now, but, as I said, I've lived in the
(05:28):
US for 15 years, so I have onefoot in each culture.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So it's an accidental passion.
I love it.
And so, for those who areunfamiliar with what Fridhjuls
sliv means and what that Nordicphilosophy like, what are the
basic tenets, what are the corevalues of that philosophy that
was especially those that wereshocking, that weren't a part of
the United States culture whenyou got here.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, so it's a little different from just
outdoor recreation.
So this is very focused oncreating a relationship with
nature and to connect withnature in everyday life.
It's also non-competitive andnon-motorized.
Essentially, 80% of the timeit's just as simple as going for
(06:15):
a walk in your neighborhood,but there's a lot of emphasis on
that sort of daily act ofgetting outside, daily act of
getting outside.
But it also encompassestraditional outdoor activities
like foraging, kayaking, hiking,camping, cross-country skiing,
all those.
But we wouldn't consider a 5Kpart of Freelisting because it's
(06:37):
a competition non-competitiveand non-motorized and simple
activities.
The focus is really on findingjoy in nature.
You shouldn't need a big agendaand in everyday life it's
usually just about gettingoutside and then on the weekends
or on your vacation then youprobably try and get farther out
(06:58):
of the city.
It might go camping and hikingand so on, but the important
part is to really try and livein a way where nature is always
part of the everyday life.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I love it and I think that's probably one of the
hardest parts for Americans toadapt to and honestly, like when
I first read Open Air Life, oneof the most eye opening was is
that non-competitive, the notinvolving competition?
Because I feel like evenfishing is a competition.
People turn foraging into acompetition.
Everything gets so much getsturned into competition.
(07:33):
So I love that aspect of justbeing for the enjoyment and for
the relationship with nature andbuilding it and the emphasis on
that.
That's some of my favorite partsof fruitless leaf.
So let's dive into the benefitsa little bit.
And thankfully we had the mostwonderful pairing of summit
sessions in the past couple ofweeks because we just got to
(07:54):
have Angela Hanscom of Barefootand Balanced a few weeks ago and
so she talked a lot about thekind of scientific OT side.
So I'm excited to dive in onyour end because you have so
much more practical how to getout there skills so we learned
about why we need to get outthere.
So I do want to touch on alittle bit of what are the most
significant ways that outdoorplay and really outdoor living
(08:16):
in this freelance sleep cultureare benefits to our children in
their physical, mental,emotional health as they develop
.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
And I got to say I love Angela as well and she's
done so much.
Her work has really done a lotfor the children and nature
movement and her perspective asan occupational therapist has
been really valuable, I think,and of course she has more of
that expertise.
But what I can say from myperspective is that outdoor play
is really the foundation forchildren's healthy development,
(08:46):
because children, they, haveevolved through outdoor play
over millennia.
That's how they learn aboutthemselves, it's how they learn
about their bodies and how to bein the world, and what we're
seeing today is that childrenare in worse shape and
physically weaker than they werejust a generation ago, and this
(09:07):
will affect them as they getolder.
And so that's why I thinkoutdoor play if you get that
into their lives early, then youcan establish those healthy
habits early on.
We know there is a link betweentheir health today and the
sedentary indoor lives thatthey're leading today.
For example, we also have amyopia epidemic and the myopia
(09:31):
being nearsightedness that's dueto children not being exposed
to enough daylight.
The UK we've even seen cases ofrickets coming back and that's
a disease that we thoughtbelonged in the Victorian era.
So I think outdoor play reallyis the answer to a lot of these
things, and if we look at whathappens when children go outside
(09:52):
, even if we assume that they'renot moving at all, if they're
just being in nature so whathappens in our bodies is just
that being exposed to thedaylight helps normal eye
development for one, as Imentioned, but it also helps
regulate our sleep and wakecycles, our circadian rhythms,
(10:14):
because all the cells in ourbodies, they run on these
24-hour schedules calledcircadian rhythm.
So the daylight sort of tellsour bodies when it's time to be
alert and when it's time to goto sleep.
And especially being outdoorsin the morning can really help
children sleep better at nightand waking more rested too.
(10:36):
And another thing that happensis that our cortisol levels go
down, which cortisol being astress hormone.
That means that the child willbecome more relaxed, but at the
same time the focus increasesAngela talks a lot about this
too that the child is relaxedbut still in an alert state, and
(10:59):
that's like really optimal forlearning.
There's also vitamin D, which ofcourse you know.
The sun raised from the sunhelp our bodies produce vitamin
D, which is key to our immunesystem and bone development.
Our mood improves, we'reoutdoors and there's a reduced
risk of anxiety and depression,which is so common especially in
(11:19):
older children today.
And then if we add the physicalactivity to this, then of
course the benefits increaseexponentially.
Kids are naturally more activeoutdoors than indoors, and the
more natural the area, thebetter.
In the forest there are a lot ofnatural challenges for them to
really move their body on andpractice these basic motor
(11:42):
skills like jumping, rolling,climbing, running and spinning
in circles, which is reallyimportant for their physical
development as well.
They develop stronger musclesand bones.
But also, if we think about thecognitive development, if we
think of tree climbing, forexample, it teaches kids to
practice their executivefunction.
It teaches kids to practicetheir executive function.
(12:04):
Climbing a tree takes a lot ofplanning.
Executive function that's theability to set goals and plan
your way to get there.
(12:31):
And when you're outdoors andplaying there's just full of of
their time today and see otherkids face to face, and it's just
a different type of play thanjust gaming.
It really encouragesimagination, creativity.
Young children have thisamazing ability to create
something to do out of nothing,but that run the risk of losing
(12:52):
that ability.
And then you have a kid who'sconstantly just getting bored to
tears and does not know how toact or what to do with
(13:14):
themselves when they're outdoors.
I've seen this firsthand manytimes.
So I think before we ever put adevice in a child's hands, sure
that they do have thatconnection with nature and the
ability to make their own funoutdoors.
Absolutely, I love that.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Now I know I hear excuses a lot for why you can't
get kids outside.
A lot of people think ofoutdoor play as just a fair
weather activity, but one ofyour biggest works in your first
book is all about gettingoutside in all weather.
So what benefits do childrenget specifically from being
outdoors in different weatherrain, wind, snow?
(13:53):
Obviously there's the how youget outside like that too, but
why is it important to getoutside in those different types
of weather?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Of course, depending on where you grow up, but to me,
growing up in Sweden, it'salways been.
Once you realize all thebenefits of outdoor play, then
you got to ask yourself do Iwant to limit all those benefits
that come out of outdoor playto just the fair weather days
(14:22):
when it's 72 degrees and sunny,which that's not most of the
time in Sweden and not in a lotof other places either.
The weather is not always goingto be ideal.
I just wouldn't want to limitmy kids' time outdoors because
of that.
They would just be hibernatinghalf the year.
And I also think there's andthis may be more anecdotal, but
(14:45):
what I've seen from myobservations is that I think
there's something to braving theweather and gaining resilience,
from actually realizing thatyou're not going to melt just
because it's raining outdoors.
You can handle it.
If you just dress for theweather and you can, you'll be
fine.
You're not going to freeze todeath just because it's cold
(15:08):
outdoors.
You're not going to get sick.
That's just old urban legends,and I think it makes kids grow
when they see that they can,that the weather is not perfect
but they can find a way to becomfortable and they can find
things to do and they can stillhave a good time.
And honestly, I think a lot oftime the resistance comes more
(15:32):
from the adult, I think,especially when it comes to
younger children, because I feellike younger children usually
don't have that weather bias.
They're very good at seeing thedifferent affordances or
opportunities in different kindsof weather.
It's usually those adults thattend to see the problems.
It's snowing outdoors, so we'rethinking, oh now my commute is
going to take longer or theroads are going to be slick and
(15:54):
I'm going to have to shovel thedriveway and kids just want to
get out there and make snowangels or try and catch
snowflakes with their tongues.
Same with rain.
We think of the kids gettingwet and they're going to track
in mud and it takes more effortto be out in the rain because
you got to have more gear.
And the kids they want to jumpin the puddles and they want to
(16:16):
make Play-Doh out of mud.
They don't see the problemslike we do.
They see the opportunities.
And I think we need to be morelike kids in that regard.
And that's where this wholething about dressing for the
weather comes in, becausethere's just so much you can do
outdoors and also to have thesedifferent sensory experiences.
(16:37):
If you're only outside, it'ssunny, you're going to know what
that feels like, but the childwill not get a chance to try
their hand digging canals in themud.
And there are a lot of kidswith sensory issues today and I
think a lot of that could beprevented if you get them used
to just experiencing thesedifferent weather conditions
(16:58):
from an early age and also toexperience nature and the
changes in nature firsthand.
Yeah, you might be able to seethe leaves changing through a
window, but it's not the samething as actually being out
there and also smelling thoseleaves and feeling them in your
hands, or throwing them andraking a pile of leaves and
(17:19):
jumping in them.
That's something completelydifferent from just seeing it
through a window.
So, to sum it up, I thinkyou're missing out on a lot.
Jumping in them, that'ssomething completely different
from just seeing it through awindow.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
So, to sum it up, I think you're missing out on a
lot if you just choose to gooutside when the weather is
perfect.
I so agree.
Yeah, we have to learn to dealwith discomfort sometimes.
I think that's so important andmentioned the adult's
objections.
And obviously there's the onesthat like, if you're the
caregiver caring for the child,like not wanting to put the gear
on them but assuming that asthe nanny you're past, that
you're going to put in theeffort to put in in the work.
(17:54):
What are some objections thatmaybe parents raise or in like
ways to overcome them?
I know you mentioned a littlebit like that you could get sick
outside in the cold.
What are some of those commonobjections that people have to
getting kids outside that justaren't true or that you just
have?
You have great answers for.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah, I think what I mentioned earlier, like kids
getting dirty, is not superpopular with a lot of parents.
I think the weather is anotherbig barrier.
I also think, although maybe toa lesser extent, there are some
parents who feel like it'smaybe a little bit a waste of
time or they don't see the valuein play.
I think, and I hope, that'sbecoming less common, but I do
(18:37):
know that it exists still thisbelief that any activity that's
not planned and organized by anadult or some sort of stated
educational value is notvaluable to the child.
I think the only way toapproach this is through
education, but do it in a maybea gently nudging way.
(18:58):
You can try and debunk thoseurban legends by just saying
yeah, I know, my mom always saidthat I would catch a cold if I
was outside in the cold.
That's actually not.
That's how it works.
And the same with going outwithout a hat on.
That's not going to give you acold either.
Casually leave your books layingon the couch and just point
(19:21):
them to any sort of resourcesthat you can think of, like
blogs or YouTube videos, talksor whatever the caregiver's
preferred media or social mediais.
There's a lot of good contentout there that addresses this
stuff.
But yeah, of course, my book isvery comprehensive in this area
, I think, trying to alsohighlight all the benefits,
(19:44):
because all parents want thebest for their kids, right?
They want to do the right thing.
I think there's just a lot ofmisinformation.
So if you can just get thatinformation out there, I think
people will be receptive to that.
And also, if a kid's gettingdirty is a problem, then just
make sure that they have theright gear and you can always
(20:08):
rinse them off before bringingthem inside.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
I had a Swedish rain cloth that I would always wipe
down that I got from outdoorsRight right.
Super absorbent, always wipedthem down.
And then I kept a thing of wetones by the door at one of my
family's house.
We wiped down feet when we cameinside.
That's just what we did, rightBig on feet.
So yeah, we were going to goget dirty, but then we wiped
down feet before we came inside.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yep, I've also seen this great hack.
I haven't used it myself, butI've seen this hack online where
people who don't have a mudroomhow they use an Ikea bag.
Have you seen that one?
So they have the kids step intoan empty Ikea bag, these big
blue ones, oh yeah, they juststrip down all their outdoor
clothes into the bag and thenthey just, yeah, bring that
(20:50):
inside.
I like that too.
That's amazing.
You don't have to see it.
You don't have to see the matand the thing is mud.
It's also, I think, amisunderstanding that you don't
have to wash these outdoorclothes every time.
You can just let the mud dryand then it comes off really
easy.
You can just brush it off realeasily.
Otherwise you'd be stuck doinglaundry 24-7.
(21:12):
And that's not really the idea.
It's going to get dirty againthe next time they go out.
Why bother?
Speaker 1 (21:17):
That's why we keep our rain gear in the garage.
And yeah, exactly, just amazing.
So what are some simple andpractical strategies that
parents and caregivers?
We just talked about a coupleof them of the how to get out of
the outside, I guess, but whatare some strategies to
incorporate more outdoor timeinto children's daily routine?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I think one of the most important things that we
can do to encourage outdoor playis to show children that being
outside is important and to feeljoy when we're out there with
them and exploring naturetogether.
And I think we should own theweather, dress for the rain and
the snow, because we all know ifa child is wet or cold, they're
(21:58):
not going to want to stay outfor very long.
I also always recommend thatpeople use the nearby nature,
whether that's a backyard or alocal park.
That just depends on where youlive.
Maybe there are some woods atthe end of the street.
It doesn't have to be a parkeither.
It just depends a little bit onwhat your situation is like
where you live or where thechild lives that you care for.
(22:21):
You don't have to plan anythingbig, but maybe just pack a
picnic or just sit and watch thebirds.
My advice is always to make iteasy.
You don't need to have a bigagenda with this.
Just prioritize it and take thetime.
Make it a part of your dailyrhythm, and each family has
their own rhythm.
(22:42):
So whether that time is in themorning, after breakfast, in the
middle of the day or afterdinner, going for an after
dinner walk.
That can vary and maybe it willvary from day to day too.
Do try to get in the habit ofgoing outside every day.
So just work it into yourregular life instead of thinking
(23:03):
of it as an extra.
You can also try and just workit into the daily routines of
life.
For example, if you're walkinga child to school instead of
driving there, if you can, orride a bike Once again, that
just really depends a little biton your situation.
Or for an older child who's gothomework, can you sit outside
(23:24):
and do the homework?
There's a lot of things that wecan do to just get that little
time in, or just stop by thepark on your way home from
daycare or from school orpreschool, from daycare or from
school or preschool.
So, yeah, I think the trickreally is to own the weather,
(23:48):
use nearby nature and take thetime, and especially if you
think that you're too busy to doit, then you definitely need it
the most Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Do you have any?
You mentioned a little bit likethe nearby nature and what you
have in your community.
Do you have any tips for folkswho live in cities who don't
have as much access to nearbynature, what different places
they can look for access orthings they can do to
incorporate what access they dohave into their daily lives?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, I always say start where you are, use what
you have and do what you can.
I think I'm paraphrasing it.
It's an athlete that said that,but I think it really applies
to outdoor play too.
I think most cities would havesome sort of local park, but
even in some apartments, blocks,there will be like a small
(24:34):
grassy area or some trees.
You can see trees almostanywhere.
You can spot birds anywhere.
I think the key really is totry and find nature where you
are and maybe even redefine howwe frame nature, because I think
when we say nature, I think alot of us think of wilderness,
(24:55):
we think of mountains and thedeep forests and the ocean, and
we don't think of nature asbeing in the city.
But when you think about itjust being outdoors and feeling
the wind on your face that windis part of nature too.
So but having said that, I alsothink it doesn't take a whole
(25:17):
lot to make an area inviting tooutdoor play.
I sometimes tell the story ofthe community where I lived in
Indiana.
There was this apartmentcomplex.
There was a small area outside,like this grassy patch, with
just a small stand of trees, andyou'd never see anybody out
(25:37):
there.
The place would be deserted.
I'm assuming it was thelandlord or maybe somebody who
lived there, but somebody putout a couple of picnic tables.
Once there were a couple ofpicnic tables there, people
actually started sitting thereand hanging out and some people
were all of a sudden eatinglunch there.
Then I started seeing some kidson bikes some younger, because
(26:02):
now their caregiver actually hadsomewhere to sit so they could
watch over the child while theywere riding their bikes.
And so I think with just smallchanges you can really see some
great ripple effects.
And if your community doesn'thave a lot of access to green
spaces, then see what you can do.
Is there anything you can do tohelp improve that access in
(26:24):
your community?
It can involve working withprivate landowners.
Like I said earlier, a lot oftimes there will be a small
wooded area or something.
Maybe it's privately owned.
If you can get permission, somelandowners are more willing
(26:45):
than others to allow people togo on their property.
Or work with your city councilto improve access to parks.
There are a lot of grants outthere.
I was involved in my communityin Indiana to restore our
playground many years ago and itwas a great thing for the
community.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
That's amazing.
I love it.
And then I know we talked abouta couple of different ways to
get outside or tools.
We have a great question in thechat that kind of goes along
these lines For places that arereally hot.
I know you talk a lot of cold,yeah, places that are really hot
, places above 100 degrees andUVA of higher Las Vegas summers,
(27:21):
specifically, is being askedabout.
Do you have any tips?
Obviously, layers off is harderand I know I've got extra when
you're done, if you don'tmention it yourself.
But what tips do you have forthat hot weather?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, obviously that is a whole different animal.
It's almost like you have tothink the opposite of a cold
weather climate.
So obviously in that climate,the summer is going to be the
time of the year when you spendless time outside.
Because even here in Sweden,even though we go outside every
day, usually we spend a lot moretime outdoors in the summertime
(27:55):
, just because it's easier andmore comfortable.
I wouldn't stress over not beingable to stay out for hours on
end in 100 degree weather.
Obviously, if you're out inthose temperatures, you really
have to think about hydrationand preferably access to water
too.
Can the child be?
(28:15):
Do you have access to water?
They can sit and splash in, forexample.
I know this is a desert climate,so I'm not sure whether that's
an option everywhere.
But other than that, generaladvice is still to try and avoid
the hottest times of the dayand try to get out early in the
morning.
I know it's hot there too inthe morning, but that's at least
(28:38):
going to give you a littlereprieve, or later in the
evening, maybe, even maybe youcan even sleep outside, like on
the patio, if you have one, ifyou're a live-in nanny, I'm
trying to think that's maybemore like what you would do as a
parent, like you would sleepoutdoors, but if you're a
live-in nanny and the familywould let you, looking at the
(29:00):
stars, that's also a way toconnect with nature and
something that's greater thanourselves and another.
Yeah.
So other than that, just stayhydrated.
You can also soak a shirt andput on to help the child keep
cool as well.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I know that it might not be super helpful in desert,
but one thing that I always tryto do is don't underestimate, if
you have forests nearby, howhelpful a dense shade of a
forest can be when we get thereal hot the shade really going
out into the forest can be adifference of 10 to 15 degrees
at least.
(29:36):
It gets real hot in the peak ofsummer.
So if you do have that access,that's my other tip for hot
weather yes, definitely Good one.
So for the topic of risky playso much comes out when we get
outside.
Obviously we just talked alittle about the risk of heat
and stuff like that.
But obviously risky play can bea little bit different.
Letting kids climb on things,we know the benefits.
(29:59):
But how do we as parents andcaregivers overcome anxieties
around that and help toencourage, because we know it is
developmentally appropriate andthat helps the children develop
?
We talked about that.
But how do we get past thatkind of fear and let the kids
enjoy it and take those risks?
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeah, once again.
I think definitelyencouragement and education can
help parents understand thatthis fear is not rational.
It's understandable but it'snot rational.
Just look at how many kids getinjured playing organized sports
.
My son get injured playingorganized sports.
(30:41):
My kids do get hurt, but theycan just as well get hurt
falling off the couch at home.
The most serious injury mydaughter ever had, which was a
severe sprain.
She didn't break her wrist, butit was a severe sprain and she
got that from just rolling offthe couch.
These accidents can happenanywhere and also explain that
risky play is not the same ashazardous play.
Some people prefer to call itadventurous play because it's a
(31:05):
little less charged.
Think of it as children's wayof learning how to manage risk.
If they're not exposed to risk,then they cannot learn how to
manage it properly.
So I'd say children are farsafer if they learn to navigate
risk early on.
(31:26):
And even little crawling babiescan participate in risky play.
That could be as little as justtrying to crawl up on a log,
for example.
You got to adapt it to thechild.
Another important point to makeis that as the adult, you need
to practice standing back andreally trusting the child,
(31:47):
because children are reallywired to seek out the challenges
that their bodies need andcrave.
And are they going to get intotrouble?
Sometimes Absolutely, and therewill be times where you need to
step in and prevent them fromdoing something dangerous,
because they also don't haveconsequential thinking or they
(32:09):
don't always understand theconsequences of their actions.
In general, children are verygood at knowing what their
bodies need and as adults weshould not push them to take
more risks than they'recomfortable with, but we
shouldn't hold them back either.
So the beauty really happenswhen you find that sort of
(32:30):
balance where you watch themdoing something that challenges
them just enough and watchingthem grow from that.
And that's really what I try toencourage parents and
caregivers to do to justchallenge themselves a little
bit, to stand back and allowthat magic to happen.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Remember, actually, right after I read your book for
the first time, sitting with myson and we were out in an icy
creek and he was trying to getsomething in the creek and I was
certain he was not going to beable to reach it with the stick
that he had, my first instinctwas to tell him to stop.
He wasn't going to be able todo it, it was a little dangerous
and I, like I said I justfinished your book and so I
(33:10):
stopped myself, I didn't, I satback and I let him do it and he
ended up like throwing the stickand letting the water push it
forward, like he figured it out,and I was just like, ok, yeah,
you did figure it out and youdid it in a way that I would
have never thought of.
Yeah, antidotally, that is 100percent true.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
So I love it For the kids or caregivers who resist
going outside, maybe the oneswho didn't get that early
childhood exposure.
How do we, or even theteenagers who still resist it,
how do we get them comfortableoutside or encourage outdoor
play without it being too pushy?
(33:53):
Or how do you slowlyincorporate it in for somebody
who didn't grow up with it andhave it in their daily lives?
Speaker 2 (34:00):
So it's really two questions Like what do we do
when there's partly thecaregivers and then there's the
kids too?
But if we start with thecaregivers, just encouraging
them to come along, maybe youcan do some activities together.
I know some schools or somepreschools that have an outdoor
program, or for a school is thatthey invite the parents some
(34:24):
days or some evenings.
They'll have like a campfirenight when they invite the
parents and show them what theydo.
So that's one way trying toinvolve the parents and, again,
just surreptitiously placingthose little resource books and
other resources where they willfind them.
Also, as a caregiver, of course, you can always try to latch on
(34:48):
to other like-minded caregiversto get outside and with the
kids.
I think when my children, whenthey were little, I never
presented outdoor play as choiceor if we go outside.
It was always when we gooutside and was just part of our
life.
So if the kid is resisting,then you can always try and give
(35:12):
them different choices that youthink they might go for.
We can do X or we can do Y, butwe are going to go outside.
That way they come to view itas normal and expected to be
outside regardless of theweather and with the older kids,
I think, trading screen timefor green time if they do have,
(35:36):
if they're allowed screens, thenthat is one way that that's a
bargain and chip you candefinitely use.
I see sometimes my neighborshere.
They had two boys they're oldernow but when they were little
and they were into gaming a lot,all of a sudden I would just
see them doing whaps around thehouse and I was wondering what
(35:57):
that was all about.
So I talked to their dad andthey wanted more screen time.
But we have this deal If theywant more screen time and I
don't know what the originaltime span was, but if they want
more, then they have to be outfor X amount of time or they
have to run X number of lapsaround the house.
And I was like, okay, if thatworks for you then.
(36:19):
So I think all kids are sodifferent.
You just have to.
It's hard to give a recipe thatis going to work on every child
.
You just really have to seewhat works for your child.
It's an ongoing process oftrial and error.
My kids are now 14 and 17 andI'm still there and of course
the older they get, the lessinfluence you have over them and
(36:43):
the more I have to give up someof that.
You're saying even you struggleto get your kids outside.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, people look at me sometimes like, yes, my son
is obsessed with video games andI have to frighten him to go
outside.
So even the nature obsessedmoms struggle.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
It's not the parents' fault that the kids resist.
That's just part of modern life.
And what childhood is today?
We didn't have all thatentertainment when we grew up.
I was a kid in the 80s and theoutdoors was the place to be.
That's where everythinghappened, that's where you had
the freedom to explore and dothings and that's where your
(37:24):
friends were.
Today, kids are inside.
They default, I think, to theindoors.
Today they have so muchentertainment in their homes
they don't have that samemotivation to go outside.
It's another way of gettingthem more motivated to go
outside, to hold off onintroducing those.
And, of course, as a caregiver,you may not be in complete
(37:46):
control of that.
And even as a parent, if yourkid goes to daycare, then you're
not going to be in control ofwhat happens there.
So all we can do is our bestwith what we have, at least if
the kids have devices, setlimits on them and make sure
that they have a chance toexperience that type of outdoor
play where they have to usetheir creativity and imagination
(38:10):
outdoors before they get hookedon screens, which may be
inevitable eventually.
Even that, because that's justhow the algorithms work they're
designed to keep us scrolling.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
For sure and I think the essence of that is so
important is do your best.
Yeah, you know the influencerseven out there who are showing
their kids homeschooling andforaging all day long.
So even there, they're sittingand posting videos on Instagram,
so they're clearly in it too.
Yeah, just remember thatnothing on the internet is real
(38:43):
and that just do your best everyday, I think is important.
I love it.
That's all.
That was all my plannedquestions, so I want to hop over
to the chat and if anybody elsehas any questions, we've got
about eight minutes left, so popthem in there.
We have one wanting to learnmore about the myopia that you
mentioned at the beginning, thateye development, and I know I
(39:06):
think it's an open air life thatyou dive into it a bit.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Yeah, I think I mentioned it in my first book
too.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
I can't remember which one, but Can you talk a
little bit more?
Speaker 2 (39:15):
about that and how.
Sure.
So what?
We're seeing this epidemic,especially in some Asian
countries.
Kids spend a lot of timeindoors.
At first, researchers thoughtit had to do with screen time.
Their eyes weren't developingnormally because they were
(39:36):
spending too much time like this.
But what they were surprised tofind was that it wasn't really
the screen per se, but it wasthe lack of daylight.
The daylight helps the eyedevelop normally.
It has to do with and I'm notan eye expert, but the daylight
helps the eye grow into a normalshape.
(39:57):
And the other thing is, whenwe're outdoors, the eye also
practices from looking atobjects that are close to
objects that are far away.
We shift more frequentlybetween objects that are close
and far away.
So that too helps eyedevelopment.
(40:18):
Now, I'm not saying that's theonly thing that influences eye
development.
I'm not saying that if yourchild is nearsighted you have
failed to parent, but I'm sayingthat if your child is outdoors,
a lot chances are that they arehave a lower risk of becoming
near sight and something aboutmorning sunlight is more
(40:42):
effective too, right, likehealthier for eyes, if I
remember correctly I don't know,I think I wanted this about
morning sunlight.
Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure it hasto do with eye development, but
it does help regulate thehormones, melatonin especially
to do with the temperature ofthe light.
Yes, so to get the biggesteffect on sleep, the morning
(41:06):
daylight is the most effective.
And one thing that I did not gointo detail in my book on is
how here in the Scandinaviancountries, like this time of the
year, it's almost light 24-7.
But it's interesting how thataffects you, because I noticed
such a big difference betweenthe dark season, when we only
(41:28):
have about six hours of daylight, and now where it's like the
opposite, we don't even have sixhours of darkness, we have
hours of twilight and some sortof darkness.
But like my energy, there's nocomparison.
Like I am so much moreenergetic this time of the year.
(41:49):
So it is funny like you live onthese latitudes.
It's just a whole differentball game.
So some of this advice probablydoesn't really apply correctly
when the difference is soextreme.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Even living less so extreme latitude.
I'm in the Midwest, yeah, justcoming out of winter now.
I 100% like this seasonal,whether it's true.
Seasonal depression or you justfeel that lower energy, higher
energy, it is so real.
Seasonal depression or you justfeel that lower energy, higher
energy, it is so real and it'sso important.
I love it.
Amazing.
I think that's all the time wehave today.
(42:22):
Thank you so much for beinghere.
It has been so wonderful.
If there's any one final pieceof advice you could give to
caregivers wanting to getoutside with their kids, what's
your one thing that you want toleave them?
Speaker 2 (42:35):
with.
Oh, I think I might just repeatwhat I said earlier with a
start where you are and use whatyou have and do what you can
Really the best advice I have.
It doesn't have to be an epiclocation or a grand adventure,
so just do what you can, becausethose daily interactions with
nature around us that's going todo more to wire that child's
(42:58):
brain and that's going to beingrained in their memory
Amazing.
Thank you so much, linda.
This has been so wonderful.
Thank you for having me.
I enjoyed chatting with you, asalways.
Welcome to Adventure Nannies On Air.
Today's episode was recordedlive during one of our Summit
Sessions as a part of our freeongoing educational webinar
series to support nannies andprofessional child care
providers to elevate theircareers and enhance their skills
.
If you like what you hear, youcan catch the full episode on
our YouTube channel or registerfor our next Summit Session at
adventurenanniescom slash summitdash sessions.
(00:22):
Welcome to today's SummitSession.
I'm so excited to be here.
My name is Regan Fulton, I'mthe Marketing Director for
Adventure Nannies and today wehave the incredible Linda Merker
with us.
Linda is one of my favoriteauthors and an advocate for
outdoor play.
She's written two books aboutparenting and outdoor living no
such thing as bad weather andopen air life which you see my
(00:46):
copy here, with all sticky notesand tabs, is a life manual that
everyone should have.
Drawing from both researchersand her own experiences.
She's here to share herinsights on how we can all
encourage love for nature in theoutdoors and for the children.
Therefore, so welcome Linda.
It's so wonderful to have youhere.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Thank you so much for inviting me.
I'm honored to be here andobviously familiar with
Adventure Nannies theorganization, since I've just
blurred the book and it was lotsof fun to read everybody's
stories and that.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Absolutely yeah.
We wanted to have Linda be ableto be one of our pre-readers
and give us a for the back ofour book, and we've also had the
pleasure of having her as asponsor for Nanny Camp.
We got to give out copies ofher book to our Nanny Camp
attendees Just so excited tohave her here today to teach all
of you.
So just a couple ofhousekeeping notes before we get
started is this is beingrecorded.
(01:43):
It will be available as apodcast If you have to pop out
at any point, if you miss theend or if you won't learn so
much that you want to share withyour friends.
It'll be available both onYouTube and wherever you listen
to podcasts and, with that beingthe case, just make sure you
please keep yourself muted.
I'll try to keep an eye on ittoo, but if you can keep
yourself muted, that way we canget a clear recording of Linda.
(02:04):
And if you have any questions,pop them in the chat.
I'll be monitoring the chat andat the end we'll circle back
and I'll ask Linda all thoseawesome questions.
So let's get started.
Linda, to just get us started,tell us a little bit more about
your journey, how you got hereand what led you to be
passionate about outdoor playand I'm going to let you say it,
(02:26):
because I butcher it every timeI say it the F word free enough
, sleep, open air life yes.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So I want to start by saying I'm an accidental author
.
I am a journalist and a writer.
Am a journalist and a writer.
I grew up in Sweden in a veryoutdoorsy culture but because it
was so ingrained in our cultureto be outside from infancy,
babies nap outside at daycareand preschool.
(02:56):
Children play outdoors most ofthe day at forest school and
also in regular preschools, andwe also spend a lot of time
outdoors with friends and family, just in our free time, and I
never thought of our family asparticularly outdoorsy, even
though my parents would take mehiking and camping in the
summertime and sledding andskiing and ice skating in the
(03:19):
wintertime.
That's just what everybody did,so we weren't special that way.
And then when I was in my 20s,I moved to the US and I had my
children there.
I have two daughters and ofcourse I noticed when I moved
there.
We lived in Indiana.
I lived there for 15 years andI noticed that it was a little
(03:40):
different.
The culture was different andpeople didn't seem to go outside
as much.
They didn't seem to think thatwas a thing Like I had grown up
thinking that, or I was alwaystold fresh air is good for you,
and we go outside every day.
There's no such thing as badweather, only bad clothes.
And in Indiana it seemed likepeople were hibernating,
(04:00):
especially during the coldseason.
So when I had my first daughterand I took her out on the
stroller in the wintertime, Igot some reactions from people
in the community.
Some people thought I was bravefor being out there in the cold
temperatures, and othersthought I was reckless because
they thought it was dangerous.
(04:20):
And then a few even took pityon me and offered me rides.
They thought my car had brokendown and were being, of course,
midwestern nice.
So this sort of culture clashmade me realize that if I wanted
my daughter to have a childhoodanything like my own, I had to
(04:41):
actively try and immerse her inthe culture that I grew up in.
So that's how it started.
So I went from being afreelance writer working on
stories about corn and soybeanprices and the harvest to
thinking about writing a bookabout the Scandinavian culture
and, above all, like how theplace of nature in childhood,
(05:05):
because having a natureconnection is really considered
essential in Swedish andScandinavian parenting and
culture.
So that's how I ended upwriting my first book and then
that kind of took off, and thenmy second book came out five
years later and then, actuallyin 2018, I moved back to Sweden,
so that's where I live now, but, as I said, I've lived in the
(05:28):
US for 15 years, so I have onefoot in each culture.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So it's an accidental passion.
I love it.
And so, for those who areunfamiliar with what Fridhjuls
sliv means and what that Nordicphilosophy like, what are the
basic tenets, what are the corevalues of that philosophy that
was especially those that wereshocking, that weren't a part of
the United States culture whenyou got here.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, so it's a little different from just
outdoor recreation.
So this is very focused oncreating a relationship with
nature and to connect withnature in everyday life.
It's also non-competitive andnon-motorized.
Essentially, 80% of the timeit's just as simple as going for
(06:15):
a walk in your neighborhood,but there's a lot of emphasis on
that sort of daily act ofgetting outside, daily act of
getting outside.
But it also encompassestraditional outdoor activities
like foraging, kayaking, hiking,camping, cross-country skiing,
all those.
But we wouldn't consider a 5Kpart of Freelisting because it's
(06:37):
a competition non-competitiveand non-motorized and simple
activities.
The focus is really on findingjoy in nature.
You shouldn't need a big agendaand in everyday life it's
usually just about gettingoutside and then on the weekends
or on your vacation then youprobably try and get farther out
(06:58):
of the city.
It might go camping and hikingand so on, but the important
part is to really try and livein a way where nature is always
part of the everyday life.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I love it and I think that's probably one of the
hardest parts for Americans toadapt to and honestly, like when
I first read Open Air Life, oneof the most eye opening was is
that non-competitive, the notinvolving competition?
Because I feel like evenfishing is a competition.
People turn foraging into acompetition.
Everything gets so much getsturned into competition.
(07:33):
So I love that aspect of justbeing for the enjoyment and for
the relationship with nature andbuilding it and the emphasis on
that.
That's some of my favorite partsof fruitless leaf.
So let's dive into the benefitsa little bit.
And thankfully we had the mostwonderful pairing of summit
sessions in the past couple ofweeks because we just got to
(07:54):
have Angela Hanscom of Barefootand Balanced a few weeks ago and
so she talked a lot about thekind of scientific OT side.
So I'm excited to dive in onyour end because you have so
much more practical how to getout there skills so we learned
about why we need to get outthere.
So I do want to touch on alittle bit of what are the most
significant ways that outdoorplay and really outdoor living
(08:16):
in this freelance sleep cultureare benefits to our children in
their physical, mental,emotional health as they develop
.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
And I got to say I love Angela as well and she's
done so much.
Her work has really done a lotfor the children and nature
movement and her perspective asan occupational therapist has
been really valuable, I think,and of course she has more of
that expertise.
But what I can say from myperspective is that outdoor play
is really the foundation forchildren's healthy development,
(08:46):
because children, they, haveevolved through outdoor play
over millennia.
That's how they learn aboutthemselves, it's how they learn
about their bodies and how to bein the world, and what we're
seeing today is that childrenare in worse shape and
physically weaker than they werejust a generation ago, and this
(09:07):
will affect them as they getolder.
And so that's why I thinkoutdoor play if you get that
into their lives early, then youcan establish those healthy
habits early on.
We know there is a link betweentheir health today and the
sedentary indoor lives thatthey're leading today.
For example, we also have amyopia epidemic and the myopia
(09:31):
being nearsightedness that's dueto children not being exposed
to enough daylight.
The UK we've even seen cases ofrickets coming back and that's
a disease that we thoughtbelonged in the Victorian era.
So I think outdoor play reallyis the answer to a lot of these
things, and if we look at whathappens when children go outside
(09:52):
, even if we assume that they'renot moving at all, if they're
just being in nature so whathappens in our bodies is just
that being exposed to thedaylight helps normal eye
development for one, as Imentioned, but it also helps
regulate our sleep and wakecycles, our circadian rhythms,
(10:14):
because all the cells in ourbodies, they run on these
24-hour schedules calledcircadian rhythm.
So the daylight sort of tellsour bodies when it's time to be
alert and when it's time to goto sleep.
And especially being outdoorsin the morning can really help
children sleep better at nightand waking more rested too.
(10:36):
And another thing that happensis that our cortisol levels go
down, which cortisol being astress hormone.
That means that the child willbecome more relaxed, but at the
same time the focus increasesAngela talks a lot about this
too that the child is relaxedbut still in an alert state, and
(10:59):
that's like really optimal forlearning.
There's also vitamin D, which ofcourse you know.
The sun raised from the sunhelp our bodies produce vitamin
D, which is key to our immunesystem and bone development.
Our mood improves, we'reoutdoors and there's a reduced
risk of anxiety and depression,which is so common especially in
(11:19):
older children today.
And then if we add the physicalactivity to this, then of
course the benefits increaseexponentially.
Kids are naturally more activeoutdoors than indoors, and the
more natural the area, thebetter.
In the forest there are a lot ofnatural challenges for them to
really move their body on andpractice these basic motor
(11:42):
skills like jumping, rolling,climbing, running and spinning
in circles, which is reallyimportant for their physical
development as well.
They develop stronger musclesand bones.
But also, if we think about thecognitive development, if we
think of tree climbing, forexample, it teaches kids to
practice their executivefunction.
It teaches kids to practicetheir executive function.
(12:04):
Climbing a tree takes a lot ofplanning.
Executive function that's theability to set goals and plan
your way to get there.
(12:31):
And when you're outdoors andplaying there's just full of of
their time today and see otherkids face to face, and it's just
a different type of play thanjust gaming.
It really encouragesimagination, creativity.
Young children have thisamazing ability to create
something to do out of nothing,but that run the risk of losing
(12:52):
that ability.
And then you have a kid who'sconstantly just getting bored to
tears and does not know how toact or what to do with
(13:14):
themselves when they're outdoors.
I've seen this firsthand manytimes.
So I think before we ever put adevice in a child's hands, sure
that they do have thatconnection with nature and the
ability to make their own funoutdoors.
Absolutely, I love that.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Now I know I hear excuses a lot for why you can't
get kids outside.
A lot of people think ofoutdoor play as just a fair
weather activity, but one ofyour biggest works in your first
book is all about gettingoutside in all weather.
So what benefits do childrenget specifically from being
outdoors in different weatherrain, wind, snow?
(13:53):
Obviously there's the how youget outside like that too, but
why is it important to getoutside in those different types
of weather?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Of course, depending on where you grow up, but to me,
growing up in Sweden, it'salways been.
Once you realize all thebenefits of outdoor play, then
you got to ask yourself do Iwant to limit all those benefits
that come out of outdoor playto just the fair weather days
(14:22):
when it's 72 degrees and sunny,which that's not most of the
time in Sweden and not in a lotof other places either.
The weather is not always goingto be ideal.
I just wouldn't want to limitmy kids' time outdoors because
of that.
They would just be hibernatinghalf the year.
And I also think there's andthis may be more anecdotal, but
(14:45):
what I've seen from myobservations is that I think
there's something to braving theweather and gaining resilience,
from actually realizing thatyou're not going to melt just
because it's raining outdoors.
You can handle it.
If you just dress for theweather and you can, you'll be
fine.
You're not going to freeze todeath just because it's cold
(15:08):
outdoors.
You're not going to get sick.
That's just old urban legends,and I think it makes kids grow
when they see that they can,that the weather is not perfect
but they can find a way to becomfortable and they can find
things to do and they can stillhave a good time.
And honestly, I think a lot oftime the resistance comes more
(15:32):
from the adult, I think,especially when it comes to
younger children, because I feellike younger children usually
don't have that weather bias.
They're very good at seeing thedifferent affordances or
opportunities in different kindsof weather.
It's usually those adults thattend to see the problems.
It's snowing outdoors, so we'rethinking, oh now my commute is
going to take longer or theroads are going to be slick and
(15:54):
I'm going to have to shovel thedriveway and kids just want to
get out there and make snowangels or try and catch
snowflakes with their tongues.
Same with rain.
We think of the kids gettingwet and they're going to track
in mud and it takes more effortto be out in the rain because
you got to have more gear.
And the kids they want to jumpin the puddles and they want to
(16:16):
make Play-Doh out of mud.
They don't see the problemslike we do.
They see the opportunities.
And I think we need to be morelike kids in that regard.
And that's where this wholething about dressing for the
weather comes in, becausethere's just so much you can do
outdoors and also to have thesedifferent sensory experiences.
(16:37):
If you're only outside, it'ssunny, you're going to know what
that feels like, but the childwill not get a chance to try
their hand digging canals in themud.
And there are a lot of kidswith sensory issues today and I
think a lot of that could beprevented if you get them used
to just experiencing thesedifferent weather conditions
(16:58):
from an early age and also toexperience nature and the
changes in nature firsthand.
Yeah, you might be able to seethe leaves changing through a
window, but it's not the samething as actually being out
there and also smelling thoseleaves and feeling them in your
hands, or throwing them andraking a pile of leaves and
(17:19):
jumping in them.
That's something completelydifferent from just seeing it
through a window.
So, to sum it up, I thinkyou're missing out on a lot.
Jumping in them, that'ssomething completely different
from just seeing it through awindow.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
So, to sum it up, I think you're missing out on a
lot if you just choose to gooutside when the weather is
perfect.
I so agree.
Yeah, we have to learn to dealwith discomfort sometimes.
I think that's so important andmentioned the adult's
objections.
And obviously there's the onesthat like, if you're the
caregiver caring for the child,like not wanting to put the gear
on them but assuming that asthe nanny you're past, that
you're going to put in theeffort to put in in the work.
(17:54):
What are some objections thatmaybe parents raise or in like
ways to overcome them?
I know you mentioned a littlebit like that you could get sick
outside in the cold.
What are some of those commonobjections that people have to
getting kids outside that justaren't true or that you just
have?
You have great answers for.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah, I think what I mentioned earlier, like kids
getting dirty, is not superpopular with a lot of parents.
I think the weather is anotherbig barrier.
I also think, although maybe toa lesser extent, there are some
parents who feel like it'smaybe a little bit a waste of
time or they don't see the valuein play.
I think, and I hope, that'sbecoming less common, but I do
(18:37):
know that it exists still thisbelief that any activity that's
not planned and organized by anadult or some sort of stated
educational value is notvaluable to the child.
I think the only way toapproach this is through
education, but do it in a maybea gently nudging way.
(18:58):
You can try and debunk thoseurban legends by just saying
yeah, I know, my mom always saidthat I would catch a cold if I
was outside in the cold.
That's actually not.
That's how it works.
And the same with going outwithout a hat on.
That's not going to give you acold either.
Casually leave your books layingon the couch and just point
(19:21):
them to any sort of resourcesthat you can think of, like
blogs or YouTube videos, talksor whatever the caregiver's
preferred media or social mediais.
There's a lot of good contentout there that addresses this
stuff.
But yeah, of course, my book isvery comprehensive in this area
, I think, trying to alsohighlight all the benefits,
(19:44):
because all parents want thebest for their kids, right?
They want to do the right thing.
I think there's just a lot ofmisinformation.
So if you can just get thatinformation out there, I think
people will be receptive to that.
And also, if a kid's gettingdirty is a problem, then just
make sure that they have theright gear and you can always
(20:08):
rinse them off before bringingthem inside.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
I had a Swedish rain cloth that I would always wipe
down that I got from outdoorsRight right.
Super absorbent, always wipedthem down.
And then I kept a thing of wetones by the door at one of my
family's house.
We wiped down feet when we cameinside.
That's just what we did, rightBig on feet.
So yeah, we were going to goget dirty, but then we wiped
down feet before we came inside.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yep, I've also seen this great hack.
I haven't used it myself, butI've seen this hack online where
people who don't have a mudroomhow they use an Ikea bag.
Have you seen that one?
So they have the kids step intoan empty Ikea bag, these big
blue ones, oh yeah, they juststrip down all their outdoor
clothes into the bag and thenthey just, yeah, bring that
(20:50):
inside.
I like that too.
That's amazing.
You don't have to see it.
You don't have to see the matand the thing is mud.
It's also, I think, amisunderstanding that you don't
have to wash these outdoorclothes every time.
You can just let the mud dryand then it comes off really
easy.
You can just brush it off realeasily.
Otherwise you'd be stuck doinglaundry 24-7.
(21:12):
And that's not really the idea.
It's going to get dirty againthe next time they go out.
Why bother?
Speaker 1 (21:17):
That's why we keep our rain gear in the garage.
And yeah, exactly, just amazing.
So what are some simple andpractical strategies that
parents and caregivers?
We just talked about a coupleof them of the how to get out of
the outside, I guess, but whatare some strategies to
incorporate more outdoor timeinto children's daily routine?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I think one of the most important things that we
can do to encourage outdoor playis to show children that being
outside is important and to feeljoy when we're out there with
them and exploring naturetogether.
And I think we should own theweather, dress for the rain and
the snow, because we all know ifa child is wet or cold, they're
(21:58):
not going to want to stay outfor very long.
I also always recommend thatpeople use the nearby nature,
whether that's a backyard or alocal park.
That just depends on where youlive.
Maybe there are some woods atthe end of the street.
It doesn't have to be a parkeither.
It just depends a little bit onwhat your situation is like
where you live or where thechild lives that you care for.
(22:21):
You don't have to plan anythingbig, but maybe just pack a
picnic or just sit and watch thebirds.
My advice is always to make iteasy.
You don't need to have a bigagenda with this.
Just prioritize it and take thetime.
Make it a part of your dailyrhythm, and each family has
their own rhythm.
(22:42):
So whether that time is in themorning, after breakfast, in the
middle of the day or afterdinner, going for an after
dinner walk.
That can vary and maybe it willvary from day to day too.
Do try to get in the habit ofgoing outside every day.
So just work it into yourregular life instead of thinking
(23:03):
of it as an extra.
You can also try and just workit into the daily routines of
life.
For example, if you're walkinga child to school instead of
driving there, if you can, orride a bike Once again, that
just really depends a little biton your situation.
Or for an older child who's gothomework, can you sit outside
(23:24):
and do the homework?
There's a lot of things that wecan do to just get that little
time in, or just stop by thepark on your way home from
daycare or from school orpreschool, from daycare or from
school or preschool.
So, yeah, I think the trickreally is to own the weather,
(23:48):
use nearby nature and take thetime, and especially if you
think that you're too busy to doit, then you definitely need it
the most Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Do you have any?
You mentioned a little bit likethe nearby nature and what you
have in your community.
Do you have any tips for folkswho live in cities who don't
have as much access to nearbynature, what different places
they can look for access orthings they can do to
incorporate what access they dohave into their daily lives?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, I always say start where you are, use what
you have and do what you can.
I think I'm paraphrasing it.
It's an athlete that said that,but I think it really applies
to outdoor play too.
I think most cities would havesome sort of local park, but
even in some apartments, blocks,there will be like a small
(24:34):
grassy area or some trees.
You can see trees almostanywhere.
You can spot birds anywhere.
I think the key really is totry and find nature where you
are and maybe even redefine howwe frame nature, because I think
when we say nature, I think alot of us think of wilderness,
(24:55):
we think of mountains and thedeep forests and the ocean, and
we don't think of nature asbeing in the city.
But when you think about itjust being outdoors and feeling
the wind on your face that windis part of nature too.
So but having said that, I alsothink it doesn't take a whole
(25:17):
lot to make an area inviting tooutdoor play.
I sometimes tell the story ofthe community where I lived in
Indiana.
There was this apartmentcomplex.
There was a small area outside,like this grassy patch, with
just a small stand of trees, andyou'd never see anybody out
(25:37):
there.
The place would be deserted.
I'm assuming it was thelandlord or maybe somebody who
lived there, but somebody putout a couple of picnic tables.
Once there were a couple ofpicnic tables there, people
actually started sitting thereand hanging out and some people
were all of a sudden eatinglunch there.
Then I started seeing some kidson bikes some younger, because
(26:02):
now their caregiver actually hadsomewhere to sit so they could
watch over the child while theywere riding their bikes.
And so I think with just smallchanges you can really see some
great ripple effects.
And if your community doesn'thave a lot of access to green
spaces, then see what you can do.
Is there anything you can do tohelp improve that access in
(26:24):
your community?
It can involve working withprivate landowners.
Like I said earlier, a lot oftimes there will be a small
wooded area or something.
Maybe it's privately owned.
If you can get permission, somelandowners are more willing
(26:45):
than others to allow people togo on their property.
Or work with your city councilto improve access to parks.
There are a lot of grants outthere.
I was involved in my communityin Indiana to restore our
playground many years ago and itwas a great thing for the
community.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
That's amazing.
I love it.
And then I know we talked abouta couple of different ways to
get outside or tools.
We have a great question in thechat that kind of goes along
these lines For places that arereally hot.
I know you talk a lot of cold,yeah, places that are really hot
, places above 100 degrees andUVA of higher Las Vegas summers,
(27:21):
specifically, is being askedabout.
Do you have any tips?
Obviously, layers off is harderand I know I've got extra when
you're done, if you don'tmention it yourself.
But what tips do you have forthat hot weather?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, obviously that is a whole different animal.
It's almost like you have tothink the opposite of a cold
weather climate.
So obviously in that climate,the summer is going to be the
time of the year when you spendless time outside.
Because even here in Sweden,even though we go outside every
day, usually we spend a lot moretime outdoors in the summertime
(27:55):
, just because it's easier andmore comfortable.
I wouldn't stress over not beingable to stay out for hours on
end in 100 degree weather.
Obviously, if you're out inthose temperatures, you really
have to think about hydrationand preferably access to water
too.
Can the child be?
(28:15):
Do you have access to water?
They can sit and splash in, forexample.
I know this is a desert climate,so I'm not sure whether that's
an option everywhere.
But other than that, generaladvice is still to try and avoid
the hottest times of the dayand try to get out early in the
morning.
I know it's hot there too inthe morning, but that's at least
(28:38):
going to give you a littlereprieve, or later in the
evening, maybe, even maybe youcan even sleep outside, like on
the patio, if you have one, ifyou're a live-in nanny, I'm
trying to think that's maybemore like what you would do as a
parent, like you would sleepoutdoors, but if you're a
live-in nanny and the familywould let you, looking at the
(29:00):
stars, that's also a way toconnect with nature and
something that's greater thanourselves and another.
Yeah.
So other than that, just stayhydrated.
You can also soak a shirt andput on to help the child keep
cool as well.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I know that it might not be super helpful in desert,
but one thing that I always tryto do is don't underestimate, if
you have forests nearby, howhelpful a dense shade of a
forest can be when we get thereal hot the shade really going
out into the forest can be adifference of 10 to 15 degrees
at least.
(29:36):
It gets real hot in the peak ofsummer.
So if you do have that access,that's my other tip for hot
weather yes, definitely Good one.
So for the topic of risky playso much comes out when we get
outside.
Obviously we just talked alittle about the risk of heat
and stuff like that.
But obviously risky play can bea little bit different.
Letting kids climb on things,we know the benefits.
(29:59):
But how do we as parents andcaregivers overcome anxieties
around that and help toencourage, because we know it is
developmentally appropriate andthat helps the children develop
?
We talked about that.
But how do we get past thatkind of fear and let the kids
enjoy it and take those risks?
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeah, once again.
I think definitelyencouragement and education can
help parents understand thatthis fear is not rational.
It's understandable but it'snot rational.
Just look at how many kids getinjured playing organized sports
.
My son get injured playingorganized sports.
(30:41):
My kids do get hurt, but theycan just as well get hurt
falling off the couch at home.
The most serious injury mydaughter ever had, which was a
severe sprain.
She didn't break her wrist, butit was a severe sprain and she
got that from just rolling offthe couch.
These accidents can happenanywhere and also explain that
risky play is not the same ashazardous play.
Some people prefer to call itadventurous play because it's a
(31:05):
little less charged.
Think of it as children's wayof learning how to manage risk.
If they're not exposed to risk,then they cannot learn how to
manage it properly.
So I'd say children are farsafer if they learn to navigate
risk early on.
(31:26):
And even little crawling babiescan participate in risky play.
That could be as little as justtrying to crawl up on a log,
for example.
You got to adapt it to thechild.
Another important point to makeis that as the adult, you need
to practice standing back andreally trusting the child,
(31:47):
because children are reallywired to seek out the challenges
that their bodies need andcrave.
And are they going to get intotrouble?
Sometimes Absolutely, and therewill be times where you need to
step in and prevent them fromdoing something dangerous,
because they also don't haveconsequential thinking or they
(32:09):
don't always understand theconsequences of their actions.
In general, children are verygood at knowing what their
bodies need and as adults weshould not push them to take
more risks than they'recomfortable with, but we
shouldn't hold them back either.
So the beauty really happenswhen you find that sort of
(32:30):
balance where you watch themdoing something that challenges
them just enough and watchingthem grow from that.
And that's really what I try toencourage parents and
caregivers to do to justchallenge themselves a little
bit, to stand back and allowthat magic to happen.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Remember, actually, right after I read your book for
the first time, sitting with myson and we were out in an icy
creek and he was trying to getsomething in the creek and I was
certain he was not going to beable to reach it with the stick
that he had, my first instinctwas to tell him to stop.
He wasn't going to be able todo it, it was a little dangerous
and I, like I said I justfinished your book and so I
(33:10):
stopped myself, I didn't, I satback and I let him do it and he
ended up like throwing the stickand letting the water push it
forward, like he figured it out,and I was just like, ok, yeah,
you did figure it out and youdid it in a way that I would
have never thought of.
Yeah, antidotally, that is 100percent true.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
So I love it For the kids or caregivers who resist
going outside, maybe the oneswho didn't get that early
childhood exposure.
How do we, or even theteenagers who still resist it,
how do we get them comfortableoutside or encourage outdoor
play without it being too pushy?
(33:53):
Or how do you slowlyincorporate it in for somebody
who didn't grow up with it andhave it in their daily lives?
Speaker 2 (34:00):
So it's really two questions Like what do we do
when there's partly thecaregivers and then there's the
kids too?
But if we start with thecaregivers, just encouraging
them to come along, maybe youcan do some activities together.
I know some schools or somepreschools that have an outdoor
program, or for a school is thatthey invite the parents some
(34:24):
days or some evenings.
They'll have like a campfirenight when they invite the
parents and show them what theydo.
So that's one way trying toinvolve the parents and, again,
just surreptitiously placingthose little resource books and
other resources where they willfind them.
Also, as a caregiver, of course, you can always try to latch on
(34:48):
to other like-minded caregiversto get outside and with the
kids.
I think when my children, whenthey were little, I never
presented outdoor play as choiceor if we go outside.
It was always when we gooutside and was just part of our
life.
So if the kid is resisting,then you can always try and give
(35:12):
them different choices that youthink they might go for.
We can do X or we can do Y, butwe are going to go outside.
That way they come to view itas normal and expected to be
outside regardless of theweather and with the older kids,
I think, trading screen timefor green time if they do have,
(35:36):
if they're allowed screens, thenthat is one way that that's a
bargain and chip you candefinitely use.
I see sometimes my neighborshere.
They had two boys they're oldernow but when they were little
and they were into gaming a lot,all of a sudden I would just
see them doing whaps around thehouse and I was wondering what
(35:57):
that was all about.
So I talked to their dad andthey wanted more screen time.
But we have this deal If theywant more screen time and I
don't know what the originaltime span was, but if they want
more, then they have to be outfor X amount of time or they
have to run X number of lapsaround the house.
And I was like, okay, if thatworks for you then.
(36:19):
So I think all kids are sodifferent.
You just have to.
It's hard to give a recipe thatis going to work on every child
.
You just really have to seewhat works for your child.
It's an ongoing process oftrial and error.
My kids are now 14 and 17 andI'm still there and of course
the older they get, the lessinfluence you have over them and
(36:43):
the more I have to give up someof that.
You're saying even you struggleto get your kids outside.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, people look at me sometimes like, yes, my son
is obsessed with video games andI have to frighten him to go
outside.
So even the nature obsessedmoms struggle.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
It's not the parents' fault that the kids resist.
That's just part of modern life.
And what childhood is today?
We didn't have all thatentertainment when we grew up.
I was a kid in the 80s and theoutdoors was the place to be.
That's where everythinghappened, that's where you had
the freedom to explore and dothings and that's where your
(37:24):
friends were.
Today, kids are inside.
They default, I think, to theindoors.
Today they have so muchentertainment in their homes
they don't have that samemotivation to go outside.
It's another way of gettingthem more motivated to go
outside, to hold off onintroducing those.
And, of course, as a caregiver,you may not be in complete
(37:46):
control of that.
And even as a parent, if yourkid goes to daycare, then you're
not going to be in control ofwhat happens there.
So all we can do is our bestwith what we have, at least if
the kids have devices, setlimits on them and make sure
that they have a chance toexperience that type of outdoor
play where they have to usetheir creativity and imagination
(38:10):
outdoors before they get hookedon screens, which may be
inevitable eventually.
Even that, because that's justhow the algorithms work they're
designed to keep us scrolling.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
For sure and I think the essence of that is so
important is do your best.
Yeah, you know the influencerseven out there who are showing
their kids homeschooling andforaging all day long.
So even there, they're sittingand posting videos on Instagram,
so they're clearly in it too.
Yeah, just remember thatnothing on the internet is real
(38:43):
and that just do your best everyday, I think is important.
I love it.
That's all.
That was all my plannedquestions, so I want to hop over
to the chat and if anybody elsehas any questions, we've got
about eight minutes left, so popthem in there.
We have one wanting to learnmore about the myopia that you
mentioned at the beginning, thateye development, and I know I
(39:06):
think it's an open air life thatyou dive into it a bit.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Yeah, I think I mentioned it in my first book
too.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
I can't remember which one, but Can you talk a
little bit more?
Speaker 2 (39:15):
about that and how.
Sure.
So what?
We're seeing this epidemic,especially in some Asian
countries.
Kids spend a lot of timeindoors.
At first, researchers thoughtit had to do with screen time.
Their eyes weren't developingnormally because they were
(39:36):
spending too much time like this.
But what they were surprised tofind was that it wasn't really
the screen per se, but it wasthe lack of daylight.
The daylight helps the eyedevelop normally.
It has to do with and I'm notan eye expert, but the daylight
helps the eye grow into a normalshape.
(39:57):
And the other thing is, whenwe're outdoors, the eye also
practices from looking atobjects that are close to
objects that are far away.
We shift more frequentlybetween objects that are close
and far away.
So that too helps eyedevelopment.
(40:18):
Now, I'm not saying that's theonly thing that influences eye
development.
I'm not saying that if yourchild is nearsighted you have
failed to parent, but I'm sayingthat if your child is outdoors,
a lot chances are that they arehave a lower risk of becoming
near sight and something aboutmorning sunlight is more
(40:42):
effective too, right, likehealthier for eyes, if I
remember correctly I don't know,I think I wanted this about
morning sunlight.
Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure it hasto do with eye development, but
it does help regulate thehormones, melatonin especially
to do with the temperature ofthe light.
Yes, so to get the biggesteffect on sleep, the morning
(41:06):
daylight is the most effective.
And one thing that I did not gointo detail in my book on is
how here in the Scandinaviancountries, like this time of the
year, it's almost light 24-7.
But it's interesting how thataffects you, because I noticed
such a big difference betweenthe dark season, when we only
(41:28):
have about six hours of daylight, and now where it's like the
opposite, we don't even have sixhours of darkness, we have
hours of twilight and some sortof darkness.
But like my energy, there's nocomparison.
Like I am so much moreenergetic this time of the year.
(41:49):
So it is funny like you live onthese latitudes.
It's just a whole differentball game.
So some of this advice probablydoesn't really apply correctly
when the difference is soextreme.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Even living less so extreme latitude.
I'm in the Midwest, yeah, justcoming out of winter now.
I 100% like this seasonal,whether it's true.
Seasonal depression or you justfeel that lower energy, higher
energy, it is so real.
Seasonal depression or you justfeel that lower energy, higher
energy, it is so real and it'sso important.
I love it.
Amazing.
I think that's all the time wehave today.
(42:22):
Thank you so much for beinghere.
It has been so wonderful.
If there's any one final pieceof advice you could give to
caregivers wanting to getoutside with their kids, what's
your one thing that you want toleave them?
Speaker 2 (42:35):
with.
Oh, I think I might just repeatwhat I said earlier with a
start where you are and use whatyou have and do what you can
Really the best advice I have.
It doesn't have to be an epiclocation or a grand adventure,
so just do what you can, becausethose daily interactions with
nature around us that's going todo more to wire that child's
(42:58):
brain and that's going to beingrained in their memory
Amazing.
Thank you so much, linda.
This has been so wonderful.
Thank you for having me.
I enjoyed chatting with you, asalways.
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