August 22, 2025 • 24 mins
What can the U.S. learn from Canada when it comes to elder care? In this continuation of our look at elder care around the world, Attorney Bob Mannor sits down with Amy Friesen, founder of Tea and Toast, to uncover how families navigate the challenges of long-term care north of the border.
From the stark differences between Canada’s public and private systems to the emotional weight of cross-border planning, Amy shares how her personal journey inspired her to guide families through elder care with compassion and clarity. Together, Bob and Amy explore why holistic planning, care navigation, and early preparation are crucial for families facing dementia, aging, and long-term care decisions.
Whether you’re caring for a loved one in the U.S. or Canada, this episode offers eye-opening insights, practical takeaways, and a reminder that pre-planning isn’t just about logistics—it’s about peace of mind.
Host: Attorney Bob Mannor
Guest: Amy Friesen
Executive Producer: Savannah Meksto
Assistant Producers: Samantha Noah, Alecia Campbell, Shalene Gaul
Listening Options
YouTube Playlist
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
Amazon Music
iHeart Radio
Podcast Addict
Podchaser
Deezer
Listen Notes
Player FM
ABOUT US:
Mannor Law Group helps clients in all matters of estate planning and elder law including special needs planning, veterans’ benefits, Medicaid planning, estate administration, and more. We offer guidance through all stages of life.
We also help families dealing with dementia, Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, and other illnesses that cause memory loss. We take a comprehensive, holistic approach, called Life Care Planning. LEARN MORE...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to Advice from your Advocates, a
show where we provide elder lawadvice to professionals who work
with the elderly and theirfamilies.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome back to Advice from your Advocates.
I'm Bob Manor.
I'm a nationally boardcertified elder law attorney in
Michigan and we have thispodcast to talk about all the
senior issues, particularlyanything related to long-term
care and dementia and all thosetypes of things.
I'm really excited about ourpodcast today.
I think it's really interesting.
It's a continuing series totalk about how different
(00:32):
countries deal with theselong-term care issues, and so
today we've got Amy Friesen onand Amy founded Tea and Toast.
Amy, first of all, hi, and canyou do a quick introduction of
yourself?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Hi there, Bob.
Thanks for having me.
Absolutely so.
I run a company called Tea andToast.
We're here in Ottawa, Ontario,Canada, and we help seniors and
their families figure out eldercare planning from a standpoint
of housing and care purposes.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And so in our conversations previously we've
talked about how there is somedistinct differences between how
the United States deals withwhat you call housing and I
might call placement, and we'regoing to get into that
conversation.
But tell us a little bit aboutTea and Toast, how you came up
with that name and what more youdo.
(01:22):
You know what services youprovide.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Absolutely Thanks for that.
So I developed Tea and Toastafter having almost 10 years in
the retirement home industryhere, which is our private
industry for housing, seniorhousing and I was really finding
that a lot of people were ableto find what they needed and
they were really, reallystressed.
And so, seeing that and seeingthis elder care planning
(01:47):
industry sort of come online inCanada it is much bigger in the
States from what I understand soseeing it kind of come online,
I wanted to jump in and help andso I formed up TNTOS and called
it TNTOS, after painstakinglytrying to figure out what to
call it, because it's familiarfor seniors TNTOS is super
comforting, but for thoseseniors that are eating TNTOS
(02:10):
multiple meals, multiple days,it could be a red flag for their
family members or theircaregivers.
So it's really just to getpeople thinking about it.
I kind of say you know, ifyou're in the know, you're in
the know.
So I've been running TNTOS herefor 11 years now and we really
specialize in elder careplanning, which is basically
setting people up for successand whatever that success looks
(02:32):
like to them, becauseeverybody's different, and so we
really go in to try to make aplan, educate people most of
what we do is education on theindustry how the government part
of the industry works, when tomove, why to move, how to move
all of that, and then also, ifthey want to stay home, how to
(02:52):
stay safe at home, who torecommend to put grab bars in,
and things like that.
So really a full holistic typeof service for them.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
You said something a minute ago that I'd like to
explore a little further.
You said coming online inCanada.
So I'm wondering what thatmeans.
In my imagination, I'm thinkingthat and this could be
completely wrong, so that's whyI'm asking the question that
what you're saying was it wasmore of a family thing, where we
were able to try to take careof our elders within the family,
(03:23):
and now it's getting to be morewhere we have some other
options of caregiving.
Is that what you meant by that,by coming online?
Tell me a little bit more aboutwhen you said you thought that
the United States had kind ofmore developed that.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Sure, yeah, so what you said is true as well.
Right, we have lots of peoplethat have been caring for their
elders for years and generations.
What I meant by coming onlineis that, as elder care planners
and advocates, the industry hereis in its infancy, and so I
have a lot of colleagues in theStates and there's a lot more
(03:58):
agencies like myself.
We're sort of like brokersright for retirement and living,
long term care or whatnot inthat field sort of, and so the
US industry in that is muchlarger, and so here we're, just
like I said, coming online.
There's not very many of them.
They're starting to come up now, which is why I also formed up
my national organization as well, so that we could connect the
(04:20):
dots for the caregivers and theydidn't have to look everywhere
to try to find us, because,honestly, even me trying to find
my own colleagues was difficult, so I can only imagine for the
caregivers.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
That's very interesting.
So, like you say, there's andI'm curious if I'm reading this
right or understanding thisright In the United States there
is a whole industry of helpingpeople find the right housing
setting, the right what I mightcall placement in some kind of
caregiving setting, and I havean understanding of how they are
paid.
So I'm going to ask you a bluntquestion about how do you get
(04:52):
paid for this?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Well, we have multiple ways.
We're a hybrid service.
I think we're probably the onlyone anywhere, and so in Ottawa,
where I'm at, we actually havecontracts with most of the
retirement homes, and so most ofthat most of our clients that
are going through a search ourcontracts with the retirement
homes actually cover it, and sothat doesn't really exist
(05:16):
anywhere besides here and maybeMontreal Otherwise.
Yeah, so otherwise, though, wehave paid for service for elder
care, planning, our long termcare, navigation, different
service consulting that we offer.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Gotcha.
Yeah, that's how those servicesthat are sort of placement
services work in the UnitedStates, that they end up the
first option that you gave.
Typically they're paid by theplace that they end up renting
from and they get sort of acommission on it, and so that
works out well for the families,because then they don't have to
(05:53):
come up with an upfront payment.
Not knowing, you know, it'sless scary to them to enter into
that.
Talk to me about your carenavigation, and I particularly
want to talk about that becausethat's a word that we use in our
law office, and so you knowit's unusual, even in the United
States, for a law office tohave what we call care
navigation, where we have socialworkers on staff and we help
(06:16):
with all the decisions aroundcaregiving and long-term care
and all the things that canhappen over a span of time, both
from the standpoint of findingcare, getting good care, making
sure that the care is, you know,advocating for better care, all
of those types of things.
And so we offer that servicetoo as part of our law firm, and
(06:39):
I think that you do somethingsimilar, and I want to hear more
about what your care navigationservice looks like.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Sure, firstly, that's amazing.
I'm so happy to hear that youguys are offering that as well
and and it's really kind of akinto what you're saying we are
making sure that people not onlyare covered for the care that
they have today, but fortomorrow as well.
And, however, that kind of fansout and so lots of people plan
they're completely independentand they're planning they want
(07:09):
to stay home and it's like, okay, how do you keep them safe?
How do we make sure falls arelower risk and things like that?
Then, when you're looking atthings like progressive diseases
, like dementia and Parkinson'sand things like that, how do we
plan for now so they don't havetoo much care where it feels
weird and like too much, all theway to the future, where they
have all of the care they needand then hopefully not having to
(07:32):
move again if they don't wantto do that, if we make sure that
the plan is there in the firstplace, the other part is is when
you're dealing with couples andpartners, one often has higher
care needs than the other oneand the other one's often the
caregiver, and so if they'relooking to move, for instance,
how do you balance that in aretirement home specifically so
that the caregiver doesn't feellike they're living in a
(07:55):
hospital setting and their needsaren't being met as an
independent person, but the careneeds of the other person are
being met and vice versa.
We don't want two independenteither, and so balancing that as
well.
And then, lastly, from hospital, how do we look at the family
unit holistically, includingspouses and partners, dogs and
(08:18):
cats being close to family, allthose stuff all together?
Because when people aredischarged from hospital, family
, all those stuff all together.
Because when people aredischarged from hospital, the
hospital is looking at oneperson as the patient.
That's it right.
And how do we get this personout of hospital?
And so we want to look at thewhole picture, because if you
don't look at the whole picture,another move might be imminent.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Absolutely.
That's great, that's fantastic.
I you know you probably maybeuse this term to.
I call that holistic planning.
We're looking at the wholepicture.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Um, so uh, I like what you said there and I want
you to maybe expand on it aboutokay.
You know, families often are atleast in my experience families
are often, um, when they hitthis crisis, they're most
focused on the next four weeks,and so I think, as planners, we
(09:07):
got to be helping the familyfocus on okay, but what about
six months from now?
Well, you know what about, andso I always ask and this is
again a very blunt question Ihave to ask my clients.
But you know, what do we thinkis the life expectancy?
Because sometimes they tell methat it's very short, or they
really very strongly believeit's very short.
(09:28):
Then we're looking at lessplanning, but if they say I
don't know, it could be 10 years, then we've got to plan out for
10 or 20 years.
And so what I heard from you isthat part of your planning is
not just thinking about today,but thinking about the long-term
plan.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Well, when a crisis hits, all hands are on deck,
everybody's in the crisis,everybody's moving work
schedules, moving otherschedules.
Everybody's in the crisis,everybody's moving work
schedules, moving otherschedules.
Everybody's in and nobody canreally think clearly.
And I think that that's thehidden value of of businesses
like ours the two of ours andothers that we can keep a clear
mind and direct our clientsthrough the actual search
(10:07):
process or through the processas a whole and really bringing
up questions that most timesthey don't think about.
Right, because we're askingthem about life expectancy.
In a way, we're asking themabout what's going on, what
their care needs are now, ifthere's anything progressive or
we should consider, and so bydoing that, we're actually
planning out further, thinkingabout all of these different
(10:29):
things.
Will this person need what'scalled a two person transfer
down the way?
Are they going to be a reallyheavy care client?
Okay, well, this home they'rethinking about may not fit.
Let's go to this home and thenthey can stay longer because
that's their plan.
Or, wait, their plan is longterm care afterwards.
Okay, maybe we don't need allthat care, maybe we need to have
something more so today, andthen their long-term care plan
(10:52):
will kick in, and so it's allabout strategy for the families.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I know that one of your services that I want you to
expand on is cross-borderplanning, and so that's
particularly relevant for ushere in Michigan, because
obviously we have a lot ofpeople that go back and forth
between Michigan and Canada andso if we've got people in
Michigan that have parents inCanada, that might be something
that can be really helpful,because it's very challenging,
(11:18):
because the rules and everythingis a lot different and the
terminology and everything's alot different.
So talk to us about yourcross-border planning options.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
It can be really difficult when the caregiver is
not in the same country,regardless of which country.
When we have the senior, thefamily member, here.
We work with caregivers allover the world, to be honest,
and so often they can't be thereall the time, and so if they're
in this transition, they reallyneed hands-on eyes eyes on
(11:49):
someone that they can trust.
That's going to not onlyeducate them about the system
and so that they can understandit in comparison to their own
system, because a lot of peoplethink that the systems work the
same, and they don't.
They don't even work the samebetween provinces, right?
So, really educating them andkeeping them in the loop for
each step OK, you know, I metmom and dad.
(12:11):
This is our next plan.
Ok, we did this.
This is our next plan Even tothe fact of you know, if someone
is looking to make a move, wecan even do a virtual tour.
If the family can't get here, wecan do a virtual tour where I
take them around on my phone,essentially, and show them as
we're touring to really involvethem as much as possible, and
(12:31):
then the end piece is reallyconnecting all of those dots,
right?
So if they're not here, ifthey're not able to be.
You know who's going to do themoving.
Is there a house to sell?
All of these otherprofessionals to bring them all
in?
Just surround the senior andhelp them out, so that the
family can have some peace ofmind as well.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
So you know I mentioned that this is part of
our series to talk about howdifferent countries handle this
long-term care issue.
I'd like you to tell me alittle bit more and, as we
discussed before we got on thepodcast here, that every
province is a little bitdifferent, and so I understand
that you have a nationalpresence in Canada, but your
(13:10):
primary focus is Ontario, isthat right?
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yes, yep.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Talk about Ontario and I know you said that there's
sort of the subsidized and thenon-subsidized, and so if you
can kind of describe thoseoptions that you have in there
in Ontario, Sure.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
So we have a public and a private housing system in
Ontario and in Canada in general, and so for the public system
you need to go through aqualifying and you need to be
accepted.
We call that system our longterm care housing, and so you
need to go through thoseprocesses.
Our waitlist here could be assmall as six months, but our
(13:51):
average is about five years toget into a long-term care home.
And so the long-term care homesone of the reasons are
financial.
The government does cover agood portion of it, and so
people can be in a long-termcare home in a basic suite for
around $2,000 a month, includingall of their care, even their
incontinence things, and sothat's really great for a lot of
(14:15):
people.
Who one?
You know we pay for this stuffin our taxes, but also there's a
lot of people that don't haveenough money for the private
system.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
The private system.
Can I ask you a couple ofquestions about that?
Sure, yeah.
So you said that there could bea six-month to five-year
waiting list.
Is that dependent on thefacility or dependent on the
specific housing option?
Speaker 1 (14:38):
So each person chooses up to five long-term
care homes to put on their listand so, depending on what
they've chosen if they've chosenthe more popular ones and
there's a longer wait list, youknow whatnot if they've chosen
the more popular ones andthere's a longer wait list, you
know whatnot.
And so we do have a crisissituation that if things kind of
(14:58):
go haywire and they need careright away, we have an
escalation system as well, butmany people are on for many
years, but the kind of the issuethere is that you can't qualify
for long-term care until youneed the care, and so then then
you need to wait another fiveyears.
So what do you do?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Which is challenging.
I just have lots of nuancedquestions here.
So could you get on that listand list one of the places that
has a short waiting list andthen get on a waiting list for
the place that you really wantto go to later or once you're on
somewhere?
They don't put you on anotherwaiting list.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
So when you pick your five you kind of like them
right, and so if you end up inyour third choice, you can still
remain on the list for your topchoice.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
So you could move.
You could go somewhere that hasa shorter waiting list and then
, once you get to the top of thewaiting list, move to your
preferred location.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
That's right.
But you know also, as you and Iknow a lot, it's moving is
difficult, especially if you'readvanced, right Well, especially
if your care is advancing, thatyou are eligible for long term
care, then it might, you know,it might be a good process to
wait for, but it might be toomuch to make that move when it
comes up.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Sure.
So then, with long term care,housing, and so the subsidized
what are the requirements?
So the subsidized, what are therequirements?
Did they look at your assets orincome at all?
Or you just get on the waitinglist because you're a citizen of
Canada?
Speaker 1 (16:18):
for generality you kind of need to be in that one
person transfer.
So you need enough care thatsomeone's helping you physically
and then if you need thefurther subsidized, then they'll
look at finance.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
So tell me more about that.
I'm curious about that.
It's based on need, and what Imean by that is physical need,
right, and then is it based onfinancial need, and then is it
based on financial need Not toget accepted into the home.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
But if you want the extra subsidies, one of the
rooms we have basic,semi-private private.
In the basic room there's twobeds per room and that is the
room style you would go into.
If, for instance, your socialservice money that you get, for
instance, if you're on a budgetfrom the government is $1,500 a
(17:06):
month, that room is 2000, youneed a subsidy for that.
So in order to do that, youneed to go into that basic room
and they would look at financefor that purpose to give you
extra subsidy to give you extrasubsidy to lower it below the
2000.
That's right.
Extra subsidy to lower it belowthe $2,000?
That's right.
So they would.
If you're getting it below the$2,000, essentially they're
(17:27):
taking what comes in every month.
So here it's OAS and CPP, likeour government pension systems,
and so they would take that, thehome would take that and they'd
give you an allowance of around$140 a month for incidentals.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Okay, Thank you for letting me ask all the questions
.
Now talk to us about privatepay options.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
So private is what's called a retirement home.
They're more.
They're a social atmosphere.
So they're I call long-termcare a medical atmosphere, more
and social for retirement.
And so the retirement homes,here specifically many of them,
can offer the high care levelsthat long-term care can offer.
It's just private pay.
(18:08):
And so in a retirement you'relooking at your own private
suite, regardless, studio, onebedroom, two bedroom, depending.
You can add on care, but youcan go in at independent and go
all the way up to a two persontransfer along, you know, all
the way up that line.
And then you have the socialactivities, the meals together,
(18:30):
the outings, things like that.
Know a little bit more aboutyou, amy.
What was your?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
personal journey to get to where you are.
This sounds like an amazingservice and really important for
the you know residents ofOntario.
So tell us a little bit moreabout you and how you got to
(18:55):
where you are.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
I really wanted to make an impact and I didn't know
what I wanted to do after myuniversity degree, and so I
stumbled upon this psychology ofaging and into this retirement
industry and I really fell inlove with it.
I lost my grandparents prettyearly in my life and it was sort
of like being around 100grandparents every single day,
(19:18):
and so I really enjoyed that.
And then, as I move forward, Ialso have a marketing degree.
So as I move forward, I alsohave a marketing degree.
So as I move forward, I reallystarted enjoying that sales
aspect and helping people findtheir new home or their next
home, and so I really wanted todo more for that.
And I was getting frustratedbecause clients and families
were frustrated because theycouldn't find what they needed,
(19:39):
and I really thought it could bemuch easier than what was
happening.
And so that's really whatbrought me to opening up Tea and
Toast.
And when the industry started todevelop, for a long time there
wasn't very many of us.
There was me and a couple ofothers, and when it started to
develop, then I thought tomyself you know, I really want
to be able to connect acrossCanada because I have clients
(20:00):
that get referred to me, buttheir loved one is in Vancouver
or their loved one's in Alberta,and so we I just I developed
elder care planners of Canada,which are a bunch of small
businesses like myself with thewith the same mission, mission
all connected together so thatwe can work together in a bigger
atmosphere and and essentiallylook bigger right, so that we
(20:22):
can help clients with transfersacross provinces, but also then
we're able to work with EAPs anddifferent things like that.
So, because they need aCanadian presence, not just one
Ottawa business, right, so asmuch information and education
as we can get out there foreveryone, but in this industry
very specifically, that's great.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I'm glad that you were able to make that national
like that.
And and education, as we canget out there for everyone, but
in this industry veryspecifically, that's great.
I'm glad that you were able tomake that national like that and
make those connections, becausethose are so important to be
able to provide those servicesto families where you know
people just aren't all going tobe in the same place and so if
you just say, okay, well, onceyou leave Ottawa, good luck to
you, and so it's great that youhad that passion to provide that
(21:05):
service on a national basis.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Even when people call us and maybe we can't help them
, the way that they need mymandate for my team is that they
leave with something.
They leave with some form ofeducation or direction and
that's really what EldercarePlanners of Canada was built on
or direction, and that's reallywhat Eldercare Planners of
Canada was built on that ifsomeone comes to me and they
need help from somewhere else,I'm not going to just let them
(21:27):
go by the wayside and figure itout.
I'm going to find it for them,Because our you know, our whole
mission is to make their liveseasier in eldercare Nice.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
One of the things I know that helps a lot of
families that you wrote a book,and so tell us about your book
Breadcrumbs.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Sure.
So Breadcrumbs was really acompilation of my stories from
being an elder care planner andalso some extra information for
caregivers.
And then there's some Ontariovery specific information about
retirement, living, long termcare, just to give a bit of a
nuance to that, and I use it forexamples.
And so the book is really tomeet people where they are.
(22:06):
So we spoke about education.
There's lots of readers, there'slots of people that don't want
to call anybody and they're notready, and if I can sneak a book
into their you know nightstandand they can read about it and
start knowing that they'rereally not alone.
And we're all just learningthis system.
Long term care homes haven'tbeen around that long, maybe
(22:27):
since the 60s, and so we're alljust learning it.
There's just not enoughgenerations of knowledge yet,
and so this is one way to beable to meet people where they
are, where they can just read iton their own time.
They don't have to talk toanyone, they don't have to look
for anything, they just havesome extra knowledge and I'm
hoping at the end of the day,they really understand that
they're really not the only onesdealing with this stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Well, thank you so much, Amy Friesen from Tea and
Toast, for providing us withthis great information and just
kind of the compare and contrastto what we do in the United
States.
Check out her book Breadcrumbs.
That's something you can get onAmazon.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
You can.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Also on your website and the website is
wwwteantoastca, so if you're inthe United States, don't confuse
it with com.
It's ca.
And you can also find her onInstagram at instagramcom slash
teantoast Ottawa.
It was great to talk to you,amy.
(23:24):
Any final thoughts you want toleave our listeners?
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Just that you know, pre-planning does make quite a
difference, and it's so mucheasier.
Although people aren't thereyet, in the thinking, it's much
easier to pre-plan than to reactin a crisis.
So make sure that you'reputting things together now,
when you have the time to do it.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Thanks so much, amy from Tea and Toast.
If you enjoyed this podcast,don't forget to subscribe.
You can find us at Advice Fromyour Advocates at any place that
you listen to podcasts.
You can also find us on YouTubeif you want to watch us talk in
addition to hear us, or you cango to our website at
manorlawgroupcom.
Thanks for listening and we'llsee you next time.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Thanks for listening.
To learn more, visitmanorlawgroupcom.
You're listening to Advice from your Advocates, a
show where we provide elder lawadvice to professionals who work
with the elderly and theirfamilies.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome back to Advice from your Advocates.
I'm Bob Manor.
I'm a nationally boardcertified elder law attorney in
Michigan and we have thispodcast to talk about all the
senior issues, particularlyanything related to long-term
care and dementia and all thosetypes of things.
I'm really excited about ourpodcast today.
I think it's really interesting.
It's a continuing series totalk about how different
(00:32):
countries deal with theselong-term care issues, and so
today we've got Amy Friesen onand Amy founded Tea and Toast.
Amy, first of all, hi, and canyou do a quick introduction of
yourself?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Hi there, Bob.
Thanks for having me.
Absolutely so.
I run a company called Tea andToast.
We're here in Ottawa, Ontario,Canada, and we help seniors and
their families figure out eldercare planning from a standpoint
of housing and care purposes.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And so in our conversations previously we've
talked about how there is somedistinct differences between how
the United States deals withwhat you call housing and I
might call placement, and we'regoing to get into that
conversation.
But tell us a little bit aboutTea and Toast, how you came up
with that name and what more youdo.
(01:22):
You know what services youprovide.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Absolutely Thanks for that.
So I developed Tea and Toastafter having almost 10 years in
the retirement home industryhere, which is our private
industry for housing, seniorhousing and I was really finding
that a lot of people were ableto find what they needed and
they were really, reallystressed.
And so, seeing that and seeingthis elder care planning
(01:47):
industry sort of come online inCanada it is much bigger in the
States from what I understand soseeing it kind of come online,
I wanted to jump in and help andso I formed up TNTOS and called
it TNTOS, after painstakinglytrying to figure out what to
call it, because it's familiarfor seniors TNTOS is super
comforting, but for thoseseniors that are eating TNTOS
(02:10):
multiple meals, multiple days,it could be a red flag for their
family members or theircaregivers.
So it's really just to getpeople thinking about it.
I kind of say you know, ifyou're in the know, you're in
the know.
So I've been running TNTOS herefor 11 years now and we really
specialize in elder careplanning, which is basically
setting people up for successand whatever that success looks
(02:32):
like to them, becauseeverybody's different, and so we
really go in to try to make aplan, educate people most of
what we do is education on theindustry how the government part
of the industry works, when tomove, why to move, how to move
all of that, and then also, ifthey want to stay home, how to
(02:52):
stay safe at home, who torecommend to put grab bars in,
and things like that.
So really a full holistic typeof service for them.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
You said something a minute ago that I'd like to
explore a little further.
You said coming online inCanada.
So I'm wondering what thatmeans.
In my imagination, I'm thinkingthat and this could be
completely wrong, so that's whyI'm asking the question that
what you're saying was it wasmore of a family thing, where we
were able to try to take careof our elders within the family,
(03:23):
and now it's getting to be morewhere we have some other
options of caregiving.
Is that what you meant by that,by coming online?
Tell me a little bit more aboutwhen you said you thought that
the United States had kind ofmore developed that.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Sure, yeah, so what you said is true as well.
Right, we have lots of peoplethat have been caring for their
elders for years and generations.
What I meant by coming onlineis that, as elder care planners
and advocates, the industry hereis in its infancy, and so I
have a lot of colleagues in theStates and there's a lot more
(03:58):
agencies like myself.
We're sort of like brokersright for retirement and living,
long term care or whatnot inthat field sort of, and so the
US industry in that is muchlarger, and so here we're, just
like I said, coming online.
There's not very many of them.
They're starting to come up now, which is why I also formed up
my national organization as well, so that we could connect the
(04:20):
dots for the caregivers and theydidn't have to look everywhere
to try to find us, because,honestly, even me trying to find
my own colleagues was difficult, so I can only imagine for the
caregivers.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
That's very interesting.
So, like you say, there's andI'm curious if I'm reading this
right or understanding thisright In the United States there
is a whole industry of helpingpeople find the right housing
setting, the right what I mightcall placement in some kind of
caregiving setting, and I havean understanding of how they are
paid.
So I'm going to ask you a bluntquestion about how do you get
(04:52):
paid for this?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Well, we have multiple ways.
We're a hybrid service.
I think we're probably the onlyone anywhere, and so in Ottawa,
where I'm at, we actually havecontracts with most of the
retirement homes, and so most ofthat most of our clients that
are going through a search ourcontracts with the retirement
homes actually cover it, and sothat doesn't really exist
(05:16):
anywhere besides here and maybeMontreal Otherwise.
Yeah, so otherwise, though, wehave paid for service for elder
care, planning, our long termcare, navigation, different
service consulting that we offer.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Gotcha.
Yeah, that's how those servicesthat are sort of placement
services work in the UnitedStates, that they end up the
first option that you gave.
Typically they're paid by theplace that they end up renting
from and they get sort of acommission on it, and so that
works out well for the families,because then they don't have to
(05:53):
come up with an upfront payment.
Not knowing, you know, it'sless scary to them to enter into
that.
Talk to me about your carenavigation, and I particularly
want to talk about that becausethat's a word that we use in our
law office, and so you knowit's unusual, even in the United
States, for a law office tohave what we call care
navigation, where we have socialworkers on staff and we help
(06:16):
with all the decisions aroundcaregiving and long-term care
and all the things that canhappen over a span of time, both
from the standpoint of findingcare, getting good care, making
sure that the care is, you know,advocating for better care, all
of those types of things.
And so we offer that servicetoo as part of our law firm, and
(06:39):
I think that you do somethingsimilar, and I want to hear more
about what your care navigationservice looks like.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Sure, firstly, that's amazing.
I'm so happy to hear that youguys are offering that as well
and and it's really kind of akinto what you're saying we are
making sure that people not onlyare covered for the care that
they have today, but fortomorrow as well.
And, however, that kind of fansout and so lots of people plan
they're completely independentand they're planning they want
(07:09):
to stay home and it's like, okay, how do you keep them safe?
How do we make sure falls arelower risk and things like that?
Then, when you're looking atthings like progressive diseases
, like dementia and Parkinson'sand things like that, how do we
plan for now so they don't havetoo much care where it feels
weird and like too much, all theway to the future, where they
have all of the care they needand then hopefully not having to
(07:32):
move again if they don't wantto do that, if we make sure that
the plan is there in the firstplace, the other part is is when
you're dealing with couples andpartners, one often has higher
care needs than the other oneand the other one's often the
caregiver, and so if they'relooking to move, for instance,
how do you balance that in aretirement home specifically so
that the caregiver doesn't feellike they're living in a
(07:55):
hospital setting and their needsaren't being met as an
independent person, but the careneeds of the other person are
being met and vice versa.
We don't want two independenteither, and so balancing that as
well.
And then, lastly, from hospital, how do we look at the family
unit holistically, includingspouses and partners, dogs and
(08:18):
cats being close to family, allthose stuff all together?
Because when people aredischarged from hospital, family
, all those stuff all together.
Because when people aredischarged from hospital, the
hospital is looking at oneperson as the patient.
That's it right.
And how do we get this personout of hospital?
And so we want to look at thewhole picture, because if you
don't look at the whole picture,another move might be imminent.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Absolutely.
That's great, that's fantastic.
I you know you probably maybeuse this term to.
I call that holistic planning.
We're looking at the wholepicture.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Um, so uh, I like what you said there and I want
you to maybe expand on it aboutokay.
You know, families often are atleast in my experience families
are often, um, when they hitthis crisis, they're most
focused on the next four weeks,and so I think, as planners, we
(09:07):
got to be helping the familyfocus on okay, but what about
six months from now?
Well, you know what about, andso I always ask and this is
again a very blunt question Ihave to ask my clients.
But you know, what do we thinkis the life expectancy?
Because sometimes they tell methat it's very short, or they
really very strongly believeit's very short.
(09:28):
Then we're looking at lessplanning, but if they say I
don't know, it could be 10 years, then we've got to plan out for
10 or 20 years.
And so what I heard from you isthat part of your planning is
not just thinking about today,but thinking about the long-term
plan.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Well, when a crisis hits, all hands are on deck,
everybody's in the crisis,everybody's moving work
schedules, moving otherschedules.
Everybody's in the crisis,everybody's moving work
schedules, moving otherschedules.
Everybody's in and nobody canreally think clearly.
And I think that that's thehidden value of of businesses
like ours the two of ours andothers that we can keep a clear
mind and direct our clientsthrough the actual search
(10:07):
process or through the processas a whole and really bringing
up questions that most timesthey don't think about.
Right, because we're askingthem about life expectancy.
In a way, we're asking themabout what's going on, what
their care needs are now, ifthere's anything progressive or
we should consider, and so bydoing that, we're actually
planning out further, thinkingabout all of these different
(10:29):
things.
Will this person need what'scalled a two person transfer
down the way?
Are they going to be a reallyheavy care client?
Okay, well, this home they'rethinking about may not fit.
Let's go to this home and thenthey can stay longer because
that's their plan.
Or, wait, their plan is longterm care afterwards.
Okay, maybe we don't need allthat care, maybe we need to have
something more so today, andthen their long-term care plan
(10:52):
will kick in, and so it's allabout strategy for the families.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I know that one of your services that I want you to
expand on is cross-borderplanning, and so that's
particularly relevant for ushere in Michigan, because
obviously we have a lot ofpeople that go back and forth
between Michigan and Canada andso if we've got people in
Michigan that have parents inCanada, that might be something
that can be really helpful,because it's very challenging,
(11:18):
because the rules and everythingis a lot different and the
terminology and everything's alot different.
So talk to us about yourcross-border planning options.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
It can be really difficult when the caregiver is
not in the same country,regardless of which country.
When we have the senior, thefamily member, here.
We work with caregivers allover the world, to be honest,
and so often they can't be thereall the time, and so if they're
in this transition, they reallyneed hands-on eyes eyes on
(11:49):
someone that they can trust.
That's going to not onlyeducate them about the system
and so that they can understandit in comparison to their own
system, because a lot of peoplethink that the systems work the
same, and they don't.
They don't even work the samebetween provinces, right?
So, really educating them andkeeping them in the loop for
each step OK, you know, I metmom and dad.
(12:11):
This is our next plan.
Ok, we did this.
This is our next plan Even tothe fact of you know, if someone
is looking to make a move, wecan even do a virtual tour.
If the family can't get here, wecan do a virtual tour where I
take them around on my phone,essentially, and show them as
we're touring to really involvethem as much as possible, and
(12:31):
then the end piece is reallyconnecting all of those dots,
right?
So if they're not here, ifthey're not able to be.
You know who's going to do themoving.
Is there a house to sell?
All of these otherprofessionals to bring them all
in?
Just surround the senior andhelp them out, so that the
family can have some peace ofmind as well.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
So you know I mentioned that this is part of
our series to talk about howdifferent countries handle this
long-term care issue.
I'd like you to tell me alittle bit more and, as we
discussed before we got on thepodcast here, that every
province is a little bitdifferent, and so I understand
that you have a nationalpresence in Canada, but your
(13:10):
primary focus is Ontario, isthat right?
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yes, yep.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Talk about Ontario and I know you said that there's
sort of the subsidized and thenon-subsidized, and so if you
can kind of describe thoseoptions that you have in there
in Ontario, Sure.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
So we have a public and a private housing system in
Ontario and in Canada in general, and so for the public system
you need to go through aqualifying and you need to be
accepted.
We call that system our longterm care housing, and so you
need to go through thoseprocesses.
Our waitlist here could be assmall as six months, but our
(13:51):
average is about five years toget into a long-term care home.
And so the long-term care homesone of the reasons are
financial.
The government does cover agood portion of it, and so
people can be in a long-termcare home in a basic suite for
around $2,000 a month, includingall of their care, even their
incontinence things, and sothat's really great for a lot of
(14:15):
people.
Who one?
You know we pay for this stuffin our taxes, but also there's a
lot of people that don't haveenough money for the private
system.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
The private system.
Can I ask you a couple ofquestions about that?
Sure, yeah.
So you said that there could bea six-month to five-year
waiting list.
Is that dependent on thefacility or dependent on the
specific housing option?
Speaker 1 (14:38):
So each person chooses up to five long-term
care homes to put on their listand so, depending on what
they've chosen if they've chosenthe more popular ones and
there's a longer wait list, youknow whatnot if they've chosen
the more popular ones andthere's a longer wait list, you
know whatnot.
And so we do have a crisissituation that if things kind of
(14:58):
go haywire and they need careright away, we have an
escalation system as well, butmany people are on for many
years, but the kind of the issuethere is that you can't qualify
for long-term care until youneed the care, and so then then
you need to wait another fiveyears.
So what do you do?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Which is challenging.
I just have lots of nuancedquestions here.
So could you get on that listand list one of the places that
has a short waiting list andthen get on a waiting list for
the place that you really wantto go to later or once you're on
somewhere?
They don't put you on anotherwaiting list.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
So when you pick your five you kind of like them
right, and so if you end up inyour third choice, you can still
remain on the list for your topchoice.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
So you could move.
You could go somewhere that hasa shorter waiting list and then
, once you get to the top of thewaiting list, move to your
preferred location.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
That's right.
But you know also, as you and Iknow a lot, it's moving is
difficult, especially if you'readvanced, right Well, especially
if your care is advancing, thatyou are eligible for long term
care, then it might, you know,it might be a good process to
wait for, but it might be toomuch to make that move when it
comes up.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Sure.
So then, with long term care,housing, and so the subsidized
what are the requirements?
So the subsidized, what are therequirements?
Did they look at your assets orincome at all?
Or you just get on the waitinglist because you're a citizen of
Canada?
Speaker 1 (16:18):
for generality you kind of need to be in that one
person transfer.
So you need enough care thatsomeone's helping you physically
and then if you need thefurther subsidized, then they'll
look at finance.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
So tell me more about that.
I'm curious about that.
It's based on need, and what Imean by that is physical need,
right, and then is it based onfinancial need, and then is it
based on financial need Not toget accepted into the home.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
But if you want the extra subsidies, one of the
rooms we have basic,semi-private private.
In the basic room there's twobeds per room and that is the
room style you would go into.
If, for instance, your socialservice money that you get, for
instance, if you're on a budgetfrom the government is $1,500 a
(17:06):
month, that room is 2000, youneed a subsidy for that.
So in order to do that, youneed to go into that basic room
and they would look at financefor that purpose to give you
extra subsidy to give you extrasubsidy to lower it below the
2000.
That's right.
Extra subsidy to lower it belowthe $2,000?
That's right.
So they would.
If you're getting it below the$2,000, essentially they're
(17:27):
taking what comes in every month.
So here it's OAS and CPP, likeour government pension systems,
and so they would take that, thehome would take that and they'd
give you an allowance of around$140 a month for incidentals.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Okay, Thank you for letting me ask all the questions
.
Now talk to us about privatepay options.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
So private is what's called a retirement home.
They're more.
They're a social atmosphere.
So they're I call long-termcare a medical atmosphere, more
and social for retirement.
And so the retirement homes,here specifically many of them,
can offer the high care levelsthat long-term care can offer.
It's just private pay.
(18:08):
And so in a retirement you'relooking at your own private
suite, regardless, studio, onebedroom, two bedroom, depending.
You can add on care, but youcan go in at independent and go
all the way up to a two persontransfer along, you know, all
the way up that line.
And then you have the socialactivities, the meals together,
(18:30):
the outings, things like that.
Know a little bit more aboutyou, amy.
What was your?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
personal journey to get to where you are.
This sounds like an amazingservice and really important for
the you know residents ofOntario.
So tell us a little bit moreabout you and how you got to
(18:55):
where you are.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
I really wanted to make an impact and I didn't know
what I wanted to do after myuniversity degree, and so I
stumbled upon this psychology ofaging and into this retirement
industry and I really fell inlove with it.
I lost my grandparents prettyearly in my life and it was sort
of like being around 100grandparents every single day,
(19:18):
and so I really enjoyed that.
And then, as I move forward, Ialso have a marketing degree.
So as I move forward, I alsohave a marketing degree.
So as I move forward, I reallystarted enjoying that sales
aspect and helping people findtheir new home or their next
home, and so I really wanted todo more for that.
And I was getting frustratedbecause clients and families
were frustrated because theycouldn't find what they needed,
(19:39):
and I really thought it could bemuch easier than what was
happening.
And so that's really whatbrought me to opening up Tea and
Toast.
And when the industry started todevelop, for a long time there
wasn't very many of us.
There was me and a couple ofothers, and when it started to
develop, then I thought tomyself you know, I really want
to be able to connect acrossCanada because I have clients
(20:00):
that get referred to me, buttheir loved one is in Vancouver
or their loved one's in Alberta,and so we I just I developed
elder care planners of Canada,which are a bunch of small
businesses like myself with thewith the same mission, mission
all connected together so thatwe can work together in a bigger
atmosphere and and essentiallylook bigger right, so that we
(20:22):
can help clients with transfersacross provinces, but also then
we're able to work with EAPs anddifferent things like that.
So, because they need aCanadian presence, not just one
Ottawa business, right, so asmuch information and education
as we can get out there foreveryone, but in this industry
very specifically, that's great.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I'm glad that you were able to make that national
like that.
And and education, as we canget out there for everyone, but
in this industry veryspecifically, that's great.
I'm glad that you were able tomake that national like that and
make those connections, becausethose are so important to be
able to provide those servicesto families where you know
people just aren't all going tobe in the same place and so if
you just say, okay, well, onceyou leave Ottawa, good luck to
you, and so it's great that youhad that passion to provide that
(21:05):
service on a national basis.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Even when people call us and maybe we can't help them
, the way that they need mymandate for my team is that they
leave with something.
They leave with some form ofeducation or direction and
that's really what EldercarePlanners of Canada was built on
or direction, and that's reallywhat Eldercare Planners of
Canada was built on that ifsomeone comes to me and they
need help from somewhere else,I'm not going to just let them
(21:27):
go by the wayside and figure itout.
I'm going to find it for them,Because our you know, our whole
mission is to make their liveseasier in eldercare Nice.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
One of the things I know that helps a lot of
families that you wrote a book,and so tell us about your book
Breadcrumbs.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Sure.
So Breadcrumbs was really acompilation of my stories from
being an elder care planner andalso some extra information for
caregivers.
And then there's some Ontariovery specific information about
retirement, living, long termcare, just to give a bit of a
nuance to that, and I use it forexamples.
And so the book is really tomeet people where they are.
(22:06):
So we spoke about education.
There's lots of readers, there'slots of people that don't want
to call anybody and they're notready, and if I can sneak a book
into their you know nightstandand they can read about it and
start knowing that they'rereally not alone.
And we're all just learningthis system.
Long term care homes haven'tbeen around that long, maybe
(22:27):
since the 60s, and so we're alljust learning it.
There's just not enoughgenerations of knowledge yet,
and so this is one way to beable to meet people where they
are, where they can just read iton their own time.
They don't have to talk toanyone, they don't have to look
for anything, they just havesome extra knowledge and I'm
hoping at the end of the day,they really understand that
they're really not the only onesdealing with this stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Well, thank you so much, Amy Friesen from Tea and
Toast, for providing us withthis great information and just
kind of the compare and contrastto what we do in the United
States.
Check out her book Breadcrumbs.
That's something you can get onAmazon.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
You can.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Also on your website and the website is
wwwteantoastca, so if you're inthe United States, don't confuse
it with com.
It's ca.
And you can also find her onInstagram at instagramcom slash
teantoast Ottawa.
It was great to talk to you,amy.
(23:24):
Any final thoughts you want toleave our listeners?
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Just that you know, pre-planning does make quite a
difference, and it's so mucheasier.
Although people aren't thereyet, in the thinking, it's much
easier to pre-plan than to reactin a crisis.
So make sure that you'reputting things together now,
when you have the time to do it.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Thanks so much, amy from Tea and Toast.
If you enjoyed this podcast,don't forget to subscribe.
You can find us at Advice Fromyour Advocates at any place that
you listen to podcasts.
You can also find us on YouTubeif you want to watch us talk in
addition to hear us, or you cango to our website at
manorlawgroupcom.
Thanks for listening and we'llsee you next time.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Thanks for listening.
To learn more, visitmanorlawgroupcom.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.