Episode Transcript
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Attorney Bob Mannor (00:00):
You're
listening to advice from your
advocates, a show where weprovide elder law advice to
professionals who work with theelderly and their families.
Welcome back to advice fromyour advocates.
I'm Bob Mannor.
I'm a nationally boardcertified elder law attorney in
Michigan and I'm very excitedabout today's podcast.
We have a repeat podcast, butthis one's gonna be a special
(00:23):
topic here, so we have ElisaBosley, who is a chaplain and
founder of spiritual elder care.
So you should go back andlisten to the podcast that we
did before with Elisa, buttoday we're recording.
It's in the middle of theholiday Time of the year for us,
and so we thought it would bean appropriate conversation To
(00:46):
talk to Lisa about how toIncorporate your loved ones that
have dementia Into your familytraditions, your family
religious traditions and thingslike that.
So welcome a Elisa and thanksfor joining us again.
Elisa Bosley (01:00):
Oh, thank you so
much for having me back.
Attorney Bob Mannor (01:01):
It's great
to be back so at least I tell us
a little bit about yourministry with the, the spiritual
elder care sure.
Elisa Bosley (01:11):
I am a licensed
Nondenominational Christian
chaplain and I have a specialfocus for meeting the needs of
older adults who are living withAlzheimer's disease or other
dementias.
I Also have a heart and callingfor helping others to do that
kind of work.
It's my, my calling to make itas easy and doable for other
(01:35):
people to do this kind ofspiritual care, which I just
think is so important.
So I've created an enormousrepository of resources Bible
study discussion guides andchurch worship services and
Recorded classic hymns, alldesigned to be Suitable for
adults that are living withdementia and they're all for
(01:58):
free on my website, spiritualelder care Com, and on YouTube.
I also consult with peopleone-on-one and just try to try
to make this kind of care Commonrather than rare.
Attorney Bob Mannor (02:12):
Well, lisa,
I know we talked last time
about this, but I so muchappreciate your ministry With my
own parents having gone throughyou know, the dementia journey.
It was very difficult.
They've been lifelong.
You know participants in theirfaith and their religion and
their church and it was verydifficult to incorporate that,
(02:33):
and so it's nice to know thatthere's a resource out there
that can help us to incorporatethis, a very important part of
life and make it more palatableor more Sort of user-friendly,
if I'm if I can use that termright Mm-hmm right, exactly, I
(02:54):
mean, that's the thing.
Elisa Bosley (02:55):
It's such a, it's
such an important part of so
many elders backgrounds and sucha high value for them
participating in their faithtraditions, and so to Suddenly
or, you know, even gradually nothave access to that faith
expression or ways to Enjoy andgain comfort from their faith, I
(03:16):
just I couldn't live with that.
So that's where spiritual eldercare came from.
Attorney Bob Mannor (03:21):
So I
encourage everyone to take a
look at Elisa's website and Allof the resources that are there,
because it's it's just a greatresource, and to offer this to
the public for free and on yourYouTube station.
So so, very important.
So today is a timely topic.
(03:41):
Now, depending on when you'relistening to this podcast, it
may no longer be the holidayseason, but really, when it
comes to faith and familytraditions and things like that,
it is a year-round thing.
So whether you're listening inthe holiday season or not, this
is still going to be relevant,but as we record, it is, you
know, coming up by Christmas.
(04:01):
So I wanted to talk to youtoday about how, if you can give
us some tips on how toincorporate the care for your
loved ones suffering fromdementia in the upcoming holiday
plan.
So, if there's gonna be familyparties, if there's gonna be
going to midnight mass, I mightnot be an appropriate, best
option for someone with dementia, but you have to incorporate
(04:24):
some of the religious traditionsor some of the family
traditions If they're hostingsomeone with dementia this
holiday season.
Elisa Bosley (04:35):
That's great, such
a great question and, as you
point out, it's so appropriateduring the holiday season, but
these ideas also pertain tofamily reunions or Birthday
gatherings, so I hope thatthey're helpful.
I think the main thing that Iwould say to start with is to
(04:55):
Plan ahead, to give it somethought ahead of time.
That might sound obvious, butit could be that you know you
think, oh well, they'll justcome and it'll be all fine, and
that's really not accurate,because if you have someone
joining you that is living withdementia, there are going to be
changes and For the personliving with dementia and the
(05:16):
family members, giving somethought ahead of time is Going
to set both of those parties upfor success.
And that's what you want, right?
You want to realize, before youeven have the gathering, that
things are gonna look different,and I think during the holidays
that can be especiallychallenging.
(05:36):
I know you know, families have acertain way of doing things, in
a certain way, things shouldlook in a certain menu that
they're gonna have, and sohaving that flexibility can be
especially hard during theholidays.
So, again, thinking ahead andrealizing that things may not
(05:57):
look exactly like they used tolook, to manage your
expectations in that and to beready and able to let go of some
things and to be flexible as anact of love.
Right, that not just sort of ohdarn, we have to do it in a
different way, but really takingthe time to create a posture of
(06:19):
we are going to be flexible andnot demand that things be done
exactly the way they've alwaysbeen done, as an act of love to
this person who, by the way,can't help it right, it's not
like the person living withdementia is just being difficult
or trying to be stubborn.
They have a brain disease andthat, to me, is a really
(06:41):
important compassion buildingattitude to take.
Attorney Bob Mannor (06:48):
I'll give a
quick example and one tip.
My quick example was that myparents used to always host the
any of the holidays, and we'dhave four generations.
We have a very big family, andso we'd have kids and grandkids
and great grandkids and all ofthat.
(07:10):
And what we realized after acouple of these was that my
mother would notice the cues.
And so it's very interestinghow the brain works, even with
dementia notice the cues.
And one of the cues that sheseemed to seemed to get a bit
agitated by was when it got darkoutside.
Well, in Michigan it gets darkpretty early in December, and so
(07:34):
we had to adjust the time ofour party, because we usually
would have got there when it'sstill a light out, but it
wouldn't be too long before itgot dark.
Well, we realized that herbrain was telling her that means
it's time to end the party orit's time to go, even though she
was at home.
And so it was an easyadjustment for all of us to say,
(07:56):
hey, let's make it where westart a little bit earlier,
because we realized when itstarts to get dark, she's gonna,
might be where she's anxious,because she's thinking, okay,
that's a cue to me, that Ishould leave, or that these
people should leave, or thingslike that.
And so it was a nice easyadjustment, just to say, okay,
how hard is it for us to changethe party by a couple of hours?
(08:17):
Let's get started a little bitearly.
Elisa Bosley (08:19):
That's an
excellent, excellent example,
yeah.
Attorney Bob Mannor (08:22):
My tip is
if you have a family like mine
and we're bringing in multiplegenerations, one of the things
that was true is, occasionallythere'd be a new person coming a
girlfriend, boyfriend of one ofthe grandkids or those types of
things and my tip is to makesure that there's a conversation
about that beforehand.
(08:44):
People have different levels ofunderstanding and experience
with dementia and if the newperson is coming and doesn't
have that life experience, theymight not be very nice to
somebody that keeps repeatingthemselves, or asking the same
questions, and things like that.
So, it's just one of thosethings.
Like you say, plan ahead, startthinking through some of these
(09:07):
things.
If there are gonna be newpeople, maybe look up at some of
the resources at your website.
Maybe look at ways to make surethat you're kindly letting them
know that there's a uniqueexperience that they might have
there and to be nice.
Elisa Bosley (09:25):
Right, right.
Well, you're basically readingoff of my notes, because that's
exactly right, I think.
The example I think of.
As many years ago we had a hugereunion, a family reunion, and
ahead of time I asked mymother-in-law's permission to
send a letter to the rest of thefamily explaining the current
(09:47):
condition of my father-in-law,who had Alzheimer's.
A lot of the people at thisreunion hadn't seen him in a
long time and I wanted them tofeel again you wanna set
everybody up for success.
I wanted them.
They loved their uncle Rex andthey wanted to know what to do.
But they didn't, and so theyhad.
(10:09):
I was able to create a letterthat just gave them some basic
tools, saying look, there's noshame in this, let's take that
stigma out of here.
And say, look, this is just areality that we're dealing with.
Here's how we can all enjoy thetime together.
Here's how we can give mymother-in-law a break and a
(10:30):
chance to hang out with peoplein the family that she hasn't
seen in a long time, and it canbe the simplest things, right?
So, again, giving people aheads up.
A lot of people can react badlyif they don't have the tools.
There's fear, there's fear andthere's frustration and oh, the
(10:51):
person's just not trying.
It's not that at all.
Again, it's a brain injury.
So that kind of tends to helppeople with a category.
But there's other simple thingslike wear name tags.
Attorney Bob Mannor (11:05):
It's why
would you Sure?
Elisa Bosley (11:09):
And you know it
might.
Everybody might think, oh,that's ridiculous, this is just
our family, Everybody knows eachother.
But again, if you're wearingname tags, that takes a piece of
that puzzle for the personliving with dementia.
They don't have to guess whatthe person's name is and you
should never ask them like oh,do you remember me?
(11:29):
What's my name?
Right, that's another, you know?
Just a helpful tip Please don'tquiz the person, please don't
argue with them.
It's not that they're nottrying, it's that they can't
access the information that theyused to have in their brain.
So again, name tags are such asimple thing.
Everybody can wear one, and itjust makes it easy.
(11:50):
And then when a personinteracts with the person who
has dementia, they can justoffer that relationship.
Hey, uncle Joe, you know.
Hi, Grandma Mary, you know.
So the person hears that says,oh, I'm the grandma, oh, I'm the
uncle, and they have that piecealready there, and then they
(12:11):
can interact.
This is just, you know, simple,loving tools that you can use.
And the holidays you alluded tothis, bob, the holidays are such
a perfect setup because there'sso much tradition and
repetition.
Like you said, your mom couldrecognize some of the forms,
including when the sun went down, but the traditions are married
(12:36):
, particularly during theholiday time.
So there's a real opportunityto have a lot of success because
those forms are so familiar.
You know, the things thatpeople see, the things that
people hear, the things thatpeople smell or taste During the
holidays, there's all thoselong term memories, so there's a
(12:57):
lot you can work with there toset people up for success.
Attorney Bob Mannor (13:02):
I know that
you and I have talked about
this before in the context ofreligious services but the
importance of music, theimportance of the things that
they you know you can neverforget a certain tune and to
incorporate that, especially ifthat has previously been part of
(13:24):
traditions to do, you knowsomebody play the piano or maybe
have some religious hymns,things like that, that could be
a real nice addition to thepriority.
Elisa Bosley (13:35):
Oh, music is a
huge one.
I mean, you can.
You can have music in thebackground, you can have, like
you said, a sing along.
You want to think through again.
This is part of that preparingahead of time.
You want to think through aheadof time.
What did this person enjoydoing?
What did they do well, and didthey do they enjoy helping?
Would they like to help set thetable?
(13:58):
Would they like to help evenyou know cook?
Now, that would be somethinglike having them stir something
or add an ingredient.
You know what did they like todo?
Give it some thought ahead oftime and then say, okay, how can
we simplify that?
How can we engage that personeffectively?
Let's have it all set up aheadof time.
(14:18):
You know, again, this is weshould start with this.
Really, this is all aboutimparting dignity to the person,
to the person with dementia,and, at the same time, making
the time pleasant and enjoyableand meaningful for everyone
there.
Right, because there's when youdo focus on okay, we're going
(14:42):
to make this a dignified,meaningful interaction.
We're not just going to invitethe person and then put them off
in a chair and hope thatthey're quiet.
You know, we're going to saythis is a person that's part of
our family.
They always have been and theystill are, and their level of
cognition or cognitive abilitydoesn't change that.
(15:02):
They're still a person ofdignity and a member of this
family and a member of thisfriend group and a member of
this church, and let'sacknowledge that and make it
work.
Attorney Bob Mannor (15:16):
Well, at
least you did a perfect segue
into my next question.
I did want to kind of changethe conversation a bit, because
we've been talking about how toincorporate.
I think we need to have toanswer that question why, why?
to incorporate the person withdementia into the plans rather
than, you know, not include them.
(15:37):
I do think that some folksmight have that tendency to say,
hey, well, you know, if theyhave some memory issues or
things like that, maybe we'lljust not invite them or leave
them out.
Why is it so important tocontinue to have your loved ones
with dementia participate inthe way that they can?
Elisa Bosley (15:57):
Oh, yes, that
really is the key Again, that
that incredible value andreality of their dignity as a
human being.
We want that for ourselves andwhy would we take that away from
someone or not make an effortto express that inherent dignity
(16:19):
to someone who has a braindisease?
Why would we do that?
Why would we not accommodatethem?
So it's up to us to learn sometools to make the effort to
welcome people living withdementia because they are.
They don't have the abilitynecessarily to engage with or
(16:40):
interact with our world the waythey used to, but we can enter
into their world, we can do that, we have the ability.
The other, well, there's manyreasons why.
The other reason again wealluded to these traditions, by
their very nature, are embeddedso often in long term memory,
and that is where people livingwith dementia live.
(17:02):
They live in place of the longterm memory and the procedural
components of the holidays andthose rituals, the sounds, the
smells, the taste, what we weretalking about those are already,
they're hardwired in, and themusic, again, is a huge part of
that, I think.
The other why is that the peopleliving with dementia have a lot
(17:27):
to teach us, a lot to offer tous because you know what better
time in the holidays that wetend to get this like everything
has to go fast and there's thishyped up sense, but when we
stop and think about it we think, no, what do I really want the
holidays to be about?
I really want the holidays tobe about connection and love and
(17:50):
the expression of all thatreally matters in life who we
are, as people are.
Love and and people living withdementia really force us forces
and quite the right word, butby their, by their very being,
we are required to slow down andto really pay attention to
(18:16):
what's going on.
So, as we are connecting andmaking an effort with a person
living with dementia, they serveus, they teach us to slow down,
to really focus on what matters, to stop and smell the pine
cones in this case right, toreally enter into what we
(18:36):
inherently know is the reallyimportant part of the holidays,
or really any gathering.
Attorney Bob Mannor (18:43):
That
reminds me of the story from the
Bible with Mary and Martha andjust the importance of slowing
down and that we regardless ofif we have somebody with
dementia that taking time, youknow, at the holidays, to not
worry about if everything looksperfect or if we have the
(19:03):
perfect tree or the perfectdecorations, but slow down and,
you know, engage in theexperience of it.
Elisa Bosley (19:10):
Right, right, we
can get so wrapped up in.
You know, I got to do this andI got to do that and it's got to
be like this, and so it's backto what we said at the beginning
.
It's like no, we need to learnto let go and to be flexible and
to slow down.
And I guarantee the blessingsand the beautiful points of
connection and the surprisingthings that can happen when you
slow down with someone livingwith dementia.
(19:32):
It's, it's wonderful to see Ihave innumerable stories of you
know sort of what happens whenyou're slowing down and paying
attention.
Attorney Bob Mannor (19:42):
Well,
you've mentioned about.
You know it's important to planahead and kind of set the stage
, and one of the parts ofsetting the stage is making sure
that that first the first partof it.
I think there's always.
Any time you're going into anysetting, anybody with social
anxiety will understand that assoon as the walk in, the
introduction, the beginning ofit sometimes is the is the part
(20:06):
that has the most anxiety aroundit.
Once you get settled in,everything is good.
And so talk about that, maybehow to navigate the arrival of
your guests that has dementia.
Elisa Bosley (20:19):
Oh, what a great
question.
So, yeah and yeah, I mean youreally hit the nail on the head.
It's like you want to, at every, at every juncture, at every
opportunity.
You want to be aware, tosimplify, to not get too fast or
wrapped up, and that includesjust like right when you get
(20:40):
there.
I think one of the things that IWas, as I was thinking about
this ahead of time, if it's afamily gathering or a large
group gathering, you reallymight want to consider a buddy
system, basically a one-on-onebuddy system for the person
living with dementia, because aOne-on-one interaction is going
to be far easier, far morelikely to succeed.
(21:04):
Then, you know, a person withdementia trying to interact with
a group.
It's just too much stimulation,it's really hard.
So it could be that a family ora gathering, a church gathering
ahead of time decides okay,we're gonna have a buddy system
and you're gonna be the personthat I greet and you know, and
(21:26):
then 15 minutes later, maybeSo-and-so will come, sit down
with the person and just have aone, and they don't even have to
talk.
I mean they really shouldfollow the lead of the person
with dementia.
Do they want to eat something.
Do they want to chat?
Do they just want to sit andwatch a little football or a
Christmas movie, do they?
(21:46):
And maybe you know every sooften that you know buddy system
, you trade off.
Number one, so the caregiverisn't necessarily the person
having to do the entire, youknow, gathering by themselves.
Number two it it again sets upthe person living with dementia
(22:06):
with better success having justa one-on-one conversation.
And number three it teaches.
It teaches the people therethat do care about this person.
I am presuming that they don'thave anything to be afraid at
right, that they can be withthis person and love them and
Serve them just by holding theirhand, you know being with them
(22:30):
for a few minutes.
So that's one thing I would say,especially if it's a larger
gathering, if you can kind ofget those smaller, smaller
groupings or one-on-one, evenbetter.
And there's also it's not a badidea to have planned ahead a
quiet room that you could go to,like it's just you know, I know
(22:53):
gap family gatherings, there'slittle kids, there's dogs,
there's, you know, they'reeverybody's cooking and we're
down it out of that a lot goingon.
And maybe you have Just a quietbedroom or a little sitting
room or something where theone-on-one, the person living
with dementia and one of theperson can just go and just Sit
(23:14):
and maybe sing a song and orlook at some pictures again.
They don't really even have totalk, but just to kind of give
that sensory calm, whetherthat's for a long time or for
just a few minutes.
You kind of have to gauge thathas the person doing, look at
their body language, see howit's going.
But it's helpful to have alittle place to remove to.
(23:36):
I like that, my goodness.
I do that when I'm in a bigparty like go hide a few minutes
in the bathroom or something.
Attorney Bob Mannor (23:46):
Yeah,
that's a couple of things I have
five children and their naturaltendencies when they go over to
grandma and grandpas would beto just swarm, go in, swarm and
really give hugs.
In the later stages.
What we decided and made apoint of, you know, getting the
kids to understand theimportance of this was to sort
(24:09):
of take shifts and instead ofimmediately going in and
swarming, we knew that weweren't going to stop the
youngest from going up andhugging grandma, so youngest got
to go first and then, you know,we'd have that, get some calm
instead of being swarmed and allthis activity and all this
things going around.
Just one at a time they'd goand they'd sit down, they'd give
(24:31):
grandma a hug, they'd go downand sit down for a few minutes,
talk through things and thentake a minute, even a little
minute, in between.
So they kind of had shifts andthey enjoyed it because they
really got more time withgrandma that way, rather than
everybody just kind of swarmingand then going off and getting
snacks or something like that.
Elisa Bosley (24:53):
So I think that's
important to you, that's a great
strategy and you make anexcellent point.
Do not shield children fromtheir loved one with dementia.
This is a valuable, valuablelearning experience and, again,
nothing to be ashamed of, and Ithink as we, oh, my goodness.
And of course, it's so greatfor the elders who love to see
(25:14):
children.
I've not yet seen a person,whether they have dementia or
not, an older person who doesn'tlove the energy and just the
joy of having small childrenaround.
So that intergenerational thingis just really great.
Do not shy away from that.
It's an excellent opportunityall around.
Attorney Bob Mannor (25:36):
You've
addressed this a bit, but I want
to highlight the point of thesize of the gathering and maybe
some strategies and you'vediscussed this but I just think
it's worthy of highlighting thisand just emphasizing the
importance of being aware of thesize of the gathering, if
there's things that we can do tokind of address that we don't
(26:01):
necessarily not want to have thewhole family there, but to
maybe have it be where we havesegments or we can do it in
smaller pieces.
Elisa Bosley (26:12):
And you said it at
the very beginning be flexible
with when, accommodate theperson and the caregivers,
schedule and know what's thebest time of day for them, when
are they at their best, andarrange if you can arrange your
time to suit that so thatthey'll be in a better place,
(26:35):
better able to engage.
Attorney Bob Mannor (26:40):
We
addressed this a little bit
earlier and it's a good segue asfar as what you're saying, as
far as the timing and lookingfor those triggers.
What, if what are some of thewarning signs that the
celebration is becoming toooverwhelming, and what can you
do about it if you see thatthere maybe is too much
stimulation?
Elisa Bosley (27:02):
Yes, we've touched
on this a little bit.
I would say certainly watch theperson's body language.
If they're starting to lookangry or distressed I mean, it
doesn't take a genius to figureout that something's wrong and
that there could be just toomuch going on for them.
(27:23):
Are they looking or soundinguncomfortable?
Just be aware and again, I'mnot saying that lightly I
understand that in a big groupthat can be hard, but that's
where that buddy system is gonnacome in real handy.
If you have someone who's justright at their time, they're
just focused on that one person.
They're not trying to talk to10 different people.
They'll see that, that you canpick up on cues like that If
(27:47):
they are.
If the person is gettingagitated and starting to speak
in an agitated somethingtriggers them.
This is something I learnedfrom Tipa Snow, who is just a
luminary in dementia field.
She says you know, don't try totalk them out of it.
Actually match their tone.
They're upset.
They don't want you to tellthem that they're not.
(28:09):
They shouldn't be upset.
Don't be upset.
Don't be upset, it's okay.
That's just gonna make themmore upset, right, and I've used
this myself and it's incrediblehow it works.
So I'm thinking of someone whosomething triggered her.
She was convinced that somebodywas stealing, had stolen her
glasses, and she was just he'scoming.
He's coming to get my glasses.
(28:30):
I called the police.
What's gonna happen?
Nobody's listening to me and Isaid oh, my goodness, that's
terrible that I can't believe it.
I'm so glad you called thepolice.
I'm matching her tone.
Attorney Bob Mannor (28:42):
Right.
Elisa Bosley (28:43):
So she feels seen
and heard.
And then, as I'm matching hertone, I'm slowly starting to
ramp it down Right, like okay,we're gonna, really we're gonna
be on top of this.
This person is not getting backhere, not while I'm here, you
know.
And she's like, yeah, well,what if he comes back?
You know, I was like, nope,this person's not.
(29:04):
So I'm just ramping it down,right.
Nope, this person is not gonnacome back.
We are safe here.
You're with me, we're not gonnalet anything happen.
And I kid you not.
She said thank you forlistening to me, thank you for
listening to me.
She just gave me this huge hugand then, you know, it took a
while I'm telling you this in 30seconds but it took, you know,
(29:26):
probably 10 minutes maybe, andthen she was okay, right, she
got past that.
Whatever that trigger was, Ididn't need to figure it out, I
didn't need to correct her andsay you know what are you
talking about?
Nobody's here and nobody got inIn her reality.
She was in trouble and I neededto acknowledge that and then
(29:49):
help her feel.
Like I said, seen and heard.
So there's that.
There's also an issue that andI've had this happen to me too
where I become part of theproblem For whatever reason in
the person's mind, they get madat me.
Right, and again, it's reallyimportant, don't take that
personally.
Right?
(30:09):
They're not right.
It's not something that otheractually mad at me.
There's some trigger that'sgoing on.
But if you, if you're in asituation with a person living
with dementia and you realizethat you are part of their
agitation, you need to just getout of there, just remove
yourself from the situation.
Again, here we back to thebuddy system, right?
(30:29):
Somebody else needs to step inbecause right now in their mind,
you're part of the problem.
I'm.
You know I'm part of theproblem.
I, like I said I've had thishappen.
I don't do it intentionally,obviously, just remove myself,
like, okay, now I'm part of theproblem, I don't need to
understand why, I don't need toask why.
I'm just gonna remove my roommyself and then, in your number
(30:50):
fifteen minutes, come back in.
They will likely remember Justworking with that and then again
having that, having that quietroom, making sure they're
hydrated, making sure that youput some water, punch or
something in front of them.
If you ask them, are you hungry,are you thirsty?
They'll probably say no,because to even figure out
(31:14):
whether they are that's too hard.
So make sure there's somethingto drink in front of the.
Make sure there's something toeat in front of them.
If they haven't gone to therestroom in a long time, just
gently say, hey, let's stop offhere at the restroom because
they might just need to go tothe restroom.
Something starting to agitatethem.
Yeah, so those are just sometips.
(31:34):
Music, again, is a great way tokind of ramp down Any agitation
.
Just get to a place where youcan play something that you know
they love.
That could be being, cross, be,or, you know, jazz or, but
again that music can be a lovelycalming influence.
So those are just a few ideas.
Attorney Bob Mannor (31:56):
Well, at
least such great advice,
especially for this time of yearwhen we're celebrating the
holidays and Interacting withreligious communities and going
to religious services.
All of these are excellent tips.
I highly encourage everybody tocheck out, at least as website.
If you can tell us the websiteagain spiritual elder care dot
(32:17):
com.
Excellent spiritual elder caredot com and at least is also
available for for consulting,and I think that you've actually
maybe consulted with someAssisted living and memory care
organizations, right, becausethis would be an excellent thing
to try to incorporate into your, your care facility if,
(32:41):
especially at this, you knowthis time of year.
So appreciate everything thatyou do and appreciate you coming
on our podcast.
Thank you so much for all ofthe advice and all of the work
that you do.
Remember, if you like thispodcast, don't forget to
subscribe, and you can listen tothe podcast on any of the
(33:02):
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You can also watch on YouTubeif you like to see our smiling
faces.
But don't forget to subscribeand we will see you at the next
podcast.
Elisa Bosley (33:14):
Thanks again, bob.
Thanks for listening.
To learn more, visitmannorlawgroup.
com.