September 10, 2024 • 31 mins
What if you could break barriers in a male-dominated industry while balancing the demands of single motherhood? This episode of African Business Stories brings you the compelling journey of Chipo Mabota, the founder and CEO of Cooper & Jones Global Logistics in Zimbabwe. From her initial hesitation about entrepreneurship to handling a groundbreaking $40 million full vessel cargo, Chipo's story is one of resilience and triumph. Listen as she recounts her early career experiences, her childhood dreams, and her love for Zimbabwe's serene environment.
Chipo candidly shares the hurdles she faced in gaining market acceptance and her strategic pivot from customs clearance and forwarding to becoming a truck owner. The episode highlights her transformative experience with the Academy for Women Entrepreneurs program, funded by the US Embassy and USADF, which played a pivotal role in her business expansion. We also celebrate her significant milestone of managing a national project with 593 trucks, a first for a female-owned business in Zimbabwe. Additionally, Chipo reflects on the dual impact of her success on her daughter and the critical role of partnerships and funding in her entrepreneurial journey.
For those interested in the broader logistics landscape in Zimbabwe, Chipo offers a detailed perspective on key trading partners and the importance of ethical business practices. She discusses her ambitious vision for global growth and her inclusive recruitment strategy aimed at empowering marginalized people through skills training. This episode is not just a story of business success; it's a testament to the power of perseverance and the unique charm of Zimbabwe, providing valuable insights and motivation for aspiring entrepreneurs. Don't miss out on Chipo's inspiring narrative and practical advice for women looking to make their mark in the business world.
Chipo has an MBA from the University of South Wales and is a Member of the Chartered Institute of Procurement and Supply. She is a grantee of the 2019 Inaugural Cohort Academy for Women Entrepreneurs (AWE) funded by the U.S African Development Foundation (USADF) and in 2022 won the Women In Logistics (FFI-MEA) endorsed by UN Women. She was named Top 100 Most Influential African Women in Supply Chain in 2022 and top 50 CEOs in Zimbabwe by Zimbabwe CEOs Network in 2023.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi there and welcome to another episode of African
Business Stories.
Africa is the only region inthe world where more women than
men choose to be entrepreneurs.
What this says to me is thatthe story of business in Africa
is the story of the Africanbusiness woman.
So we are on a journey ofdiscovery to find these women
(00:23):
and tell their stories.
So we're on a journey ofdiscovery to find these women
and tell their stories.
On the show, we will hear fromfemale innovators and
entrepreneurs building andrunning businesses in Africa.
They will share the highs andlows of their entrepreneurial
journey and lessons learnedalong the way.
Some of these women you mayknow, and many you may not, but
(00:48):
I assure you that all theirstories are inspiring in their
own right.
My hope is that these storieswill inspire you to reach for
your dreams and leave a legacyfor generations to come.
It makes such a big differenceto us if you can rate, review
and share our episodes.
You can do this mainly on ApplePodcasts, and you can find us
on all podcast platforms Ifyou're in Africa.
(01:09):
Spotify is now available, socheck us out there and don't
forget to rate, review and shareOn the show.
Today, I chat with Chipo Mbota,the founder and CEO of Cooper
Jones Global Logistics, acustoms clearance, forwarding
and supply chain service companybased in Zimbabwe.
(01:32):
We talk about how she juggledworking and studying full-time,
and how she began her career inlogistics.
She explains how, being asingle mom, she struggled
internally with the idea ofentrepreneurship but, in the end
, took the leap of faith.
Chippa went from clearing herfirst ship in 2018 to being the
(01:53):
first female-led company inZimbabwe to handle a full vessel
cargo, a project worth almost$40 million in 2022.
She describes this as a proudmoment for the company and for
her personally.
Let's get into it.
Chipo, welcome to AfricanBusiness Stories.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Hello Akego, I hope I pronounced your name right.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
You did.
Welcome again.
It's so great to be able tochat with you.
You are my first guest fromZimbabwe.
I'm not sure if you're aware,but one of the goals of our
podcast is to interview at leastone female entrepreneur from
all of the 54 African countries,and you know you're my first
one of one, my first fromZimbabwe.
So super excited, super excited.
(02:40):
Welcome again.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Thank you, I'm honored and thank you for the
opportunity.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Great, just talking a bit about Zimbabwe before we
move in.
You know Southern Africancountry and I know that you were
born and raised in Zimbabwe andI was just wondering what are
some things that you love aboutZim, as you all call it.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I think, first and foremost, the weather.
We've got, I think, one of thebest seasons in the world, I
should say, because it's mostlysunny throughout the year.
Our winters are cold, but nosnow, so they're not extremely
cold, so the weather is verygood.
And then I think the secondissue I really like about
(03:21):
Zimbabwe is just the peace.
We are such a peace-lovingnation.
Has it always been that way?
Well, I guess for as long as Ican remember, even from
childhood, yes, we are such apeace-loving nation.
Even if you visit othercountries and if you hear people
talking about Zimbabwe, that'sthe first thing they tell you
(03:42):
that you know, there's so muchpeace, the people are friendly.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, we're just friendly people Talking about
childhood.
Do you have any fond childhoodmemories you can share with us?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yes, I'll speak about my journey in what we call
primary school.
I think it's called juniorschool.
Yes, because we did not have avehicle at home, so we used to
walk to school.
Okay, it wasn't a very longjourney, but you know those
walks to and from school withfriends, talking, laughing,
(04:15):
kicking stones on the way,picking up sticks it was just
amazing.
Those were good memories.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
And when you were young, what did you aspire to be
when you you grew up?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
strangely enough, I wanted to be a flight attendant.
Oh, yes, okay.
And why?
Well, I don't know why I didn'taspire to be a pilot.
Um, I guess back then therewere not too many female pilots,
so I thought it was probablyjust a male industry.
So I wanted to be a flightattendant because I had never
(04:51):
been on a plane and I say tomyself when I finished school, I
will be a flight attendant andI'll fly around the world.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
That's interesting.
Funny that today you're workingin logistics, but we'll come to
that, but that's interesting.
So, coming on to college andthe likes, I read that you
studied and worked at the sametime, so tell us a bit about
that.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yes, after high school I did attend a college
it's called Spaces College herein Narare.
This is where I was born.
This is where I live.
I've always lived in Narare.
It's the capital city ofZimbabwe.
I did get a job.
There's a company called CEMASMedical Aid.
That was my first job and Iused to work at CEMAS and it's a
(05:38):
medical aid company and in theevenings I would go for my
lessons at Spaces College.
And I must say, something reallyinteresting happened at CMAS,
which now, when I look back, Isee how probably my journey
started, how maybe I wasn't.
I'll use the word ordinary fromthe onset, because whilst there
(06:02):
we are a department for whatthey call state registered
nurses, being a medical aidorganization, they employ a
number of nurses.
But I was not a nurse, I justfinished my high school but
because of my work ethic I gotpromoted.
Alongside there were two guyswho were also not nurses.
(06:24):
Promoted alongside there weretwo guys who were also not
nurses.
So the three of us we gotpromoted from the department we
were working in to go and workin a department that was solely
for nurses.
I ended up being interested,you know, in the medical field.
Sadly I didn't pursue it.
But for somebody who wasnon-medical to be in that kind
of department, it did say a lotabout the three of us.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
So how did you come to choose purchasing and supply
as a program to study inuniversity?
I've never heard that as acourse, you know, so it's
interesting that it even exists.
But how did you come to choosethat as what to study?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Okay, so when you do purchasing and supply, the goal
is to become we call it a buyeror a procurement person.
So now, after high school, Ithought, hmm, maybe it was
something that was fairly new inthe country.
Fairly new, it had been herefor a couple of years but very
(07:22):
few people were embarking on it.
So I thought it didn't hurt tobe amongst the few, especially
women.
I think in my class we wereamongst the first 15 women in
the country to embark on such aprogram.
Yes, so I thought it was anopportunity after completion
(07:43):
where I would go in the industry, become a procurement person
and take it from there.
But I think, as you see myjourney as we go, I really did
major in that.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
So how did you then get into logistic as a career?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Okay, so, if I recall , there's an organization called
Celebration Health where I wasemployed as a logistician.
Celebration Health is the I'llcall it the NGO arm of a church
called Celebration ChurchCelebration Ministries.
This is where I attend.
So, being a logistician there,I was in charge of the
(08:22):
warehousing.
They used to receive containersfrom the States.
We were going through a periodin Zimbabwe where there was a
cholera outbreak, so the churchwould receive donations for some
cholera packs, food packs, andI was responsible for the
warehousing and distribution ofthose goods.
So this is when I also gotintroduced to the movement of
(08:47):
containers across the borders.
Who would engage a clearingagent.
Then they were responsible forthe clearance, would engage a
transporter and would move thecontainers to the warehouse
where they take over.
So I really found it to bequite interesting and exciting
and now that procurementknowledge that I had was now
(09:11):
coming to the fore, becausepurchasing and supply is talking
about the whole supply chain.
So what I'd learned and whatwas just theory was now being
implemented to be practical.
So I just realized this iswhere I belong, because it was a
passion and I really enjoyed it.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
So you worked in multiple other places, staying
in this line of logistics.
How did you see that sectorevolve as you climbed up the
career path?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I think as I was growing up I started to realize
the immense opportunities.
Initially I was tunnel visionedbecause I thought, okay, it's
just the receiving of the goodsin the warehouse, in the
distribution.
I'd limited knowledge of thewhole industries, so to speak.
(10:01):
But as I was going up I was nowbeing introduced to things like
forwarding, where you'reresponsible for the movement of
the cargo from source.
For example, if the containeris coming from China or the
States, you're responsible fromthe source to destination.
(10:21):
So now that whole chain, howcomplex it is, the different
parts that need to come in place.
It then became so exciting andso eye-opening because there are
certain things we would takefor granted.
For example, we would get anagent at the port, port of Beira
, which is our nearest port toZimbabwe.
(10:42):
We are landlocked as a country,so we use the Beira port in
Mozambique.
So you would think, when acontainer or when a vessel
arrives at the port, they justdischarge the vessel, get the
container and off to Zimbabwe.
But there are so many parts, somany moving parts that need to
(11:03):
be aligned for that to happen.
So, like you said, as I wasclimbing up I started to
understand and also just embracethe complexities of the
industry.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah, I mean I was going to ask about the closest
port because I knew thatZimbabwe was landlocked.
So are there any languagebarriers?
Mozambique is Portuguese.
Are there any language barriersin your line of work, or do you
have people who speakPortuguese on your team?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Funny enough, I think .
As they say, africa, we are one, it's just the borders that
separate us, because when you dogo to Mozambique, you can speak
Shona, and they can understandyou, but of course they'll
probably speak with an accent,but you can actually converse,
okay, yes, so the languagebarriers are very minimal,
(11:50):
especially at Bay Report.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
So at what point, then, did you start thinking
about wanting to start your ownbusiness?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I think when I was now in management at management
level, I then decided you know,I've got a vision as a person on
what I thought I needed to seethings run.
So it's difficult really whenyou're supporting somebody's
vision vis-a-vis pursuing yourown vision.
(12:21):
So I think that was the point Idecided maybe it's time to now
pursue my own vision as Chipo.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
And so what steps did you take and how long was this
process from ideation tostepping out?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
It took quite a while , because it's a huge step.
Don't know if I mentioned thatI'm a single mom.
So because of that, you've gota lot of fears, because you're
used to um an income at the endof the month, which you know is
definitely coming.
So this other direction wouldtake you to a place where maybe
(13:00):
things won't work out.
And now, with the daughter thatyou're raising, if things don't
work out, it's not with adaughter that you're raising, if
things don't work out, it's notjust about you.
So I had a lot of battleswithin me, but eventually I
decided to take the leap offaith.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
So you start this company in 2016 and, at the same
time, you decide to do an MBA.
Correct, what was thatexperience like?
You're a single mom, you'reraising your daughter, you're
starting a business and you'redoing an MBA all at the same
time.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Okay.
So bear in mind when you'restarting something as big as a
company and you have a bigvision for it, you're not going
to wake up today and boom,you've got an office, you've got
staff and you've got a companyrunning.
It starts with the registration, the paperwork and all that.
(13:54):
So I remember I actually had alead time of almost nine months
after registration to get thedocuments to become a clearing
company.
So all that you know, thatwaiting period and there are a
lot of dynamics that will becoming into play before one
(14:17):
finally settles and says, okay,now we are starting business.
So I can say 2018, that's whenI cleared my first shipment.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Okay, yes, so what was the MBA process like and why
did you feel the need to do anMBA?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
I think, the need to grow.
I was feeling a bit stunted andI thought well, academically
that is.
So I felt maybe let me embarkon a master's program and also
see if it ties in with my visionof, you know, just trying to
run my own entity.
And what was because you did itremotely.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yes, I did.
Okay, and what was thatexperience like?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I would never even tell my worst enemy to try it.
It's crazy.
I had no social life, nofriends, nothing, no weekends.
No, nobody should do it.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Sorry, I should be marketing my college, but it
paid off in the end.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Oh, it did.
It just needs a lot ofdedication.
I think once you embark on it,you need to be certain you're
not going to go back.
You just have to be dedicatedand push through.
Yes, you will enjoy the rewardsDefinitely, definitely.
And push through.
Yes, you will enjoy the rewardsDefinitely, definitely.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
So you finish your MBA and then your company is all
set up.
So tell us how the name cameabout, and then you can go into
the work that you started doinginitially.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
So, on registration, as I was doing, my vision board,
my objectives and everythingthat I needed for that business,
I say to myself I need a namethat resonates with the
international market, becauseI'm not doing or I'm not
starting a company for Zimbabwe,but it's a global company.
(16:16):
So I want a name that, whatevercontinent that I go into, you
know it just resonates with thatplace.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
So tell us about the vision you had starting.
It seems like it was like gobig or go home.
That seemed like your goal fromthe jump.
So what was your vision whenyou set out to start Cooperoupon
Jones?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Okay, right.
So from the get, go, like yourightfully said, it was go big
or go home, sink or swim.
And I decided I'm going to swimand I'm going to swim a
marathon.
Whatever I'm establishing isnot just for me, but it's for my
daughter, my daughter'schildren and their children, so
it's a generational company thatI'm setting up.
(17:01):
So, with that in mind, I had alot of forces that I had to look
at so that I was able to thenmake, or rather have, a
foundation for such an entitythat I was trying to build.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Years of experience.
You have this MBA under yourbelt.
You have a good sense of how torun the business, what the
market is like.
What challenges did you facegoing in?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Right.
The number one challenge wasgender based.
This logistics industry inZimbabwe, and I think in most
parts of the world, is very muchmale dominated.
So before I went into thetrucking business, which we'll
talk about later, I was mainlydoing the clearance and the
forwarding.
So to get the market to acceptme, they accepted Chippo, who
(17:50):
was working for Sorenso.
Now for them to accept me asChippo who is running this
entity, it was really hard, um,but I just want to say kudos to
those who believed in me andthey gave me a chance.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yes, you started off doing clearing and forwarding
and then you now started toexpand.
The business was trucking.
The next, the next level upfrom clearing and forwarding.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yes, Tracking came in and I don't want to say it was
by default, because it was alsothrough some work that I did.
I was part of a program calledAcademy for Women Entrepreneurs,
which is a brainchild of the USEmbassy and sponsored by USADF.
(18:42):
So I remember I backed on it in2019.
You know, I just saw it onFacebook where they sent out
calls for this program.
I thought, oh well, why not?
Then boom, yes, yes, I wasselected to to be part of the
ladies who were attending inzimbabwe.
(19:03):
They chose a hundred ladies toattend the program out of over
900 applicants.
It was the first cohort.
Then, a couple of months later,I was fortunate to be among the
seven grantees in Zimbabwe andwith my grant I had indicated
(19:26):
that I wanted to buy a wallagetruck because I had seen that,
as a clearing company, you wouldfeed the supply chain better by
having a one-stop shop wherethe containers that you're going
to clear you're going to carrythem with your own truck.
So even for marketing, it makesthe client at ease because
everything is now being doneunder one roof.
(19:48):
So I did buy my first truckwith the grants and from that
day I said I'm not stoppingAgain.
Kudos to USAIDF, AmericanEmbassy for that opportunity.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
That's fantastic.
They're doing an amazing job onthe continent, I must say, you
know, in shoring up and fillingthe funding gap that exists for
small, medium-sized enterprises.
So, yes, kudos to them.
You know, and I also read, thatnot only were you able to buy
the truck, but you saw asignificant increase in your
revenue from that.
(20:21):
I did.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Like I said, the moment you go and pitch for work
and they would ask, ok, so doyou have trucks?
That says yes, but then wewould be honest enough to say we
also work with partners whogive us their trucks that we run
, but in that fleet we also haveour own truck, because we
bought the first truck.
(20:43):
Then, I'm sure, the followingyear, we bought two more trucks,
so now we had three, and a yearlater we had two more to make
them five.
So we were growing.
And I remember there's this oneproject that I always want to
talk about In 2022, it was anational project where we
(21:04):
cleared.
In total, there were 593 trucksthat we moved from Beira Port to
a place called Wange here inZimbabwe, and we were also in
charge of clearing the wholevessel at the port.
We were in charge for clearingthe cargo at the border post.
(21:25):
This is a feat that had neverbeen done by a wholly
female-owned business.
So we actually made it inZimbabwe, which was such a proud
moment for us as Cooper andJones, and for myself, as Chippo
you know to to have done suchum also for the nation so, yeah,
(21:46):
I did read about it and I wasgoing to to ask you about it and
to congratulate you on on that.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
You know it's funny.
You were talking about wantingto be an air hostess because you
hadn't seen female pilots.
It's important that wedemonstrate what success looks
like, that we position ourselvesin places that young girls can
see and can aspire, like younggirls can aspire to be vice
president or president becauseof other women, and so women can
(22:13):
.
Young girls can look at you andsay I can own a global trucking
company.
I can own a global logisticscompany.
So kudos to you, kudos to youon that and just talking about
that being a single mom andbuilding all of this and I'm
just wondering how this hasimpacted your daughter, who has
watched you grow and evolve andsucceed.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I must say it's been positive and negative.
Positive in the sense thatshe's being inspired as a woman
to work hard and she's seen thefruits of that hard work.
But I think I would saynegative in the because I feel
sometimes she really pushesherself so much because at the
(23:01):
back of her mind she's saying Iwant to be like mommy, or I want
to supersede what mommy hasachieved.
So she tries so hard, you know,just to be the best at whatever
she's doing.
Sometimes I tell her you knowwhat?
I'm not a super mom, even atwork.
I'm not a super mom, even atwork.
I'm not.
I'm not a super boss.
There are things that I alsofail to do.
(23:23):
But she just sees this epitomeof a woman who works out in the
chiefs and that's why I say it'sprobably good and bad.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah yeah, so Chipo in in terms of funding.
I know that there was the grantfrom USADF back in 2019.
But just in terms offundraising, what has that been
like for your business?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
We have only been fortunate to receive that one
grant, and we have not receivedany other funding.
Not that we're also looking forit at the moment.
No, but yeah, we were justtrying to see how we could grow
our business, as you know, justas Cooper and Jones, to see what
we could do.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
And you talked about partners before.
So what kind of partnerships doyou engage in in the region?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Okay, so I'll start on the trucking side, because we
do not have such a huge fleet.
So we've partnered with varioustransporters where, if we get
big contracts, we subcontracttheir trucks to ferry the loads.
Then we've also partnered witha company at the ports, both in
Durban Durban Port, south Africaand at Beira Port for the
(24:35):
warehousing where, if clientsrequire some warehousing
services, we can also providethat.
Yes, so those are the majorpartnerships that we have
entered into.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Okay, and are those the two main ports that service
Zimbabwe?
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yes, those are the two main ones.
We also have Dar es Salaam inTanzania, but it's a bit further
so it doesn't really bring inmuch traffic.
And we also have Welvis Bay inNamibia.
That one also doesn't bring inmuch traffic, but here and there
(25:14):
you get a few cargo coming in.
Yes, where?
Speaker 1 (25:18):
where is zimbabwe importing most things from?
Who are your main tradingpartners?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
I think well, I wouldn't want to speak for the
organization called zip tradewere in charge of this, but from
the top of my head, I think weare getting quite a bit of stuff
from china.
Why do I say so?
Because, well, I guess thecontainers that I move, I just
hear they're coming from China.
(25:44):
So I believe, and I think Indiaas well, I think is also
getting quite a bit of stuff.
Then we've got South Africa.
That's our best trading partnerin the region.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Okay, so we've talked about the imports.
What about exports?
What kind of work do you do onthat side, the export side?
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Cooper and Jones.
We are very big on the exportsof minerals.
I think that is one of ourbiggest areas really.
So most of the exports we do,they go via Bayeraport.
Yes, so minerals are the bigthing right now for us.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
So what is the business environment like for
women generally in Zimbabwe?
Speaker 2 (26:28):
I can say probably like anywhere else.
There's a lot of push that youneed to make as a woman.
I think somebody said to me youknow what you need to work
twice as hard just becauseyou're a woman.
But I feel the men I'll speakfor my industry they're also
(26:53):
starting to realize that youknow, these women can also make
it.
They can do it.
So I can say it's gettingbetter.
But we just need more women tokeep pushing and to get our
voices heard.
I'm sure we will have a seat atthe table.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
So what do you think the next five years looks like
for you, Chipo?
I see growth.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I see great opportunities for Cooper and
Jones.
Why do I say so?
We have also embarked on Idon't want to call it a program
we have also embarked on I don'twant to call it a program, but
it's an initiative where we wereregistered on the Ethics First
(27:33):
website.
This Ethics First is aninitiative of an organization
called Center for InternationalPrivate Enterprises where they
are lobbying for compliance andintegrity in businesses.
So at Cooper Jones we have saidwe want to be compliant, we
want to be integrous in all ourdealings and because of that I'm
(27:55):
seeing it also as a springboardto better and bigger doors for
the business.
Hence I said in five years timeI'm sure we are going to be
such a powerhouse.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
That's fantastic.
And so when you say growth, isthis growth in Zimbabwe, in the
SADC region, you know what doesthat kind of growth look like?
Speaker 2 (28:18):
This is global growth , this is global Wow, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
In wrapping up, I normally ask my guests to
reflect and to give advice.
So, in terms of reflection,what would you say has been one
or two of the most impactfulthings that you have achieved in
building this business, thisglobal business, in Zimbabwe?
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I think the first one will be when I did my
recruitment right, I decided togive people a chance who
probably didn't fit in to therequirements.
Really, why did I take thatroute?
I felt I needed to give peoplea chance because before I had
(29:02):
been to interviews and I wasrejected and I knew how it felt.
You know, sometimes you neededsomething so badly but you'd get
rejected.
So when I started Cooper andJones I said I'm going to try
and get people not in thetechnical roles especially for
clearing, that's more technical.
You need people who really know.
(29:24):
But for the other positions Idecided to take people who I
felt maybe very few would givethem a chance.
So that's one thing that I did.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Then also.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
I remember I think it was it was 2020, 2021.
At Cooper and Jones, weidentified 10 marginalized women
who were coming from very poorbackgrounds.
They live in a township here inHarare, one of the poorest
townships in Harare.
So we identified them and wetook them for training on how to
(30:04):
make reusable pads so thatthey'll be able to feed their
families.
These women are single women.
I've got a heart for singlewomen because I know the
struggles, so we decided to givethem an opportunity where they
would learn that and just go outthere in the marketplace and
take care of their families.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
So, finally, there are many women out there who are
building businesses.
You have a heart for women too,and I wondered if you could
give one piece of advice toother women building businesses
in Africa.
What advice would that be?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I think what I would like to say is ladies, never
give up.
You know giving up shouldn't bepart of your vocabulary.
Pivot, yes, but don't give up.
You keep pushing.
I promise you one day that doorwill open I love it, pivots,
but don't give up.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yes, thank you so much.
This has been a greatconversation, thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for listening.
If you you're not alreadysubscribed, please do so on
Apple, spotify or wherever youget your podcast, and don't
forget to leave us a review sowe know how we're doing.
I'm Akego Okoye and you havebeen listening to African
(31:15):
Business Stories.
Hi there and welcome to another episode of African
Business Stories.
Africa is the only region inthe world where more women than
men choose to be entrepreneurs.
What this says to me is thatthe story of business in Africa
is the story of the Africanbusiness woman.
So we are on a journey ofdiscovery to find these women
(00:23):
and tell their stories.
So we're on a journey ofdiscovery to find these women
and tell their stories.
On the show, we will hear fromfemale innovators and
entrepreneurs building andrunning businesses in Africa.
They will share the highs andlows of their entrepreneurial
journey and lessons learnedalong the way.
Some of these women you mayknow, and many you may not, but
(00:48):
I assure you that all theirstories are inspiring in their
own right.
My hope is that these storieswill inspire you to reach for
your dreams and leave a legacyfor generations to come.
It makes such a big differenceto us if you can rate, review
and share our episodes.
You can do this mainly on ApplePodcasts, and you can find us
on all podcast platforms Ifyou're in Africa.
(01:09):
Spotify is now available, socheck us out there and don't
forget to rate, review and shareOn the show.
Today, I chat with Chipo Mbota,the founder and CEO of Cooper
Jones Global Logistics, acustoms clearance, forwarding
and supply chain service companybased in Zimbabwe.
(01:32):
We talk about how she juggledworking and studying full-time,
and how she began her career inlogistics.
She explains how, being asingle mom, she struggled
internally with the idea ofentrepreneurship but, in the end
, took the leap of faith.
Chippa went from clearing herfirst ship in 2018 to being the
(01:53):
first female-led company inZimbabwe to handle a full vessel
cargo, a project worth almost$40 million in 2022.
She describes this as a proudmoment for the company and for
her personally.
Let's get into it.
Chipo, welcome to AfricanBusiness Stories.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Hello Akego, I hope I pronounced your name right.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
You did.
Welcome again.
It's so great to be able tochat with you.
You are my first guest fromZimbabwe.
I'm not sure if you're aware,but one of the goals of our
podcast is to interview at leastone female entrepreneur from
all of the 54 African countries,and you know you're my first
one of one, my first fromZimbabwe.
So super excited, super excited.
(02:40):
Welcome again.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Thank you, I'm honored and thank you for the
opportunity.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Great, just talking a bit about Zimbabwe before we
move in.
You know Southern Africancountry and I know that you were
born and raised in Zimbabwe andI was just wondering what are
some things that you love aboutZim, as you all call it.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I think, first and foremost, the weather.
We've got, I think, one of thebest seasons in the world, I
should say, because it's mostlysunny throughout the year.
Our winters are cold, but nosnow, so they're not extremely
cold, so the weather is verygood.
And then I think the secondissue I really like about
(03:21):
Zimbabwe is just the peace.
We are such a peace-lovingnation.
Has it always been that way?
Well, I guess for as long as Ican remember, even from
childhood, yes, we are such apeace-loving nation.
Even if you visit othercountries and if you hear people
talking about Zimbabwe, that'sthe first thing they tell you
(03:42):
that you know, there's so muchpeace, the people are friendly.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, we're just friendly people Talking about
childhood.
Do you have any fond childhoodmemories you can share with us?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yes, I'll speak about my journey in what we call
primary school.
I think it's called juniorschool.
Yes, because we did not have avehicle at home, so we used to
walk to school.
Okay, it wasn't a very longjourney, but you know those
walks to and from school withfriends, talking, laughing,
(04:15):
kicking stones on the way,picking up sticks it was just
amazing.
Those were good memories.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
And when you were young, what did you aspire to be
when you you grew up?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
strangely enough, I wanted to be a flight attendant.
Oh, yes, okay.
And why?
Well, I don't know why I didn'taspire to be a pilot.
Um, I guess back then therewere not too many female pilots,
so I thought it was probablyjust a male industry.
So I wanted to be a flightattendant because I had never
(04:51):
been on a plane and I say tomyself when I finished school, I
will be a flight attendant andI'll fly around the world.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
That's interesting.
Funny that today you're workingin logistics, but we'll come to
that, but that's interesting.
So, coming on to college andthe likes, I read that you
studied and worked at the sametime, so tell us a bit about
that.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yes, after high school I did attend a college
it's called Spaces College herein Narare.
This is where I was born.
This is where I live.
I've always lived in Narare.
It's the capital city ofZimbabwe.
I did get a job.
There's a company called CEMASMedical Aid.
That was my first job and Iused to work at CEMAS and it's a
(05:38):
medical aid company and in theevenings I would go for my
lessons at Spaces College.
And I must say, something reallyinteresting happened at CMAS,
which now, when I look back, Isee how probably my journey
started, how maybe I wasn't.
I'll use the word ordinary fromthe onset, because whilst there
(06:02):
we are a department for whatthey call state registered
nurses, being a medical aidorganization, they employ a
number of nurses.
But I was not a nurse, I justfinished my high school but
because of my work ethic I gotpromoted.
Alongside there were two guyswho were also not nurses.
(06:24):
Promoted alongside there weretwo guys who were also not
nurses.
So the three of us we gotpromoted from the department we
were working in to go and workin a department that was solely
for nurses.
I ended up being interested,you know, in the medical field.
Sadly I didn't pursue it.
But for somebody who wasnon-medical to be in that kind
of department, it did say a lotabout the three of us.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
So how did you come to choose purchasing and supply
as a program to study inuniversity?
I've never heard that as acourse, you know, so it's
interesting that it even exists.
But how did you come to choosethat as what to study?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Okay, so when you do purchasing and supply, the goal
is to become we call it a buyeror a procurement person.
So now, after high school, Ithought, hmm, maybe it was
something that was fairly new inthe country.
Fairly new, it had been herefor a couple of years but very
(07:22):
few people were embarking on it.
So I thought it didn't hurt tobe amongst the few, especially
women.
I think in my class we wereamongst the first 15 women in
the country to embark on such aprogram.
Yes, so I thought it was anopportunity after completion
(07:43):
where I would go in the industry, become a procurement person
and take it from there.
But I think, as you see myjourney as we go, I really did
major in that.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
So how did you then get into logistic as a career?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Okay, so, if I recall , there's an organization called
Celebration Health where I wasemployed as a logistician.
Celebration Health is the I'llcall it the NGO arm of a church
called Celebration ChurchCelebration Ministries.
This is where I attend.
So, being a logistician there,I was in charge of the
(08:22):
warehousing.
They used to receive containersfrom the States.
We were going through a periodin Zimbabwe where there was a
cholera outbreak, so the churchwould receive donations for some
cholera packs, food packs, andI was responsible for the
warehousing and distribution ofthose goods.
So this is when I also gotintroduced to the movement of
(08:47):
containers across the borders.
Who would engage a clearingagent.
Then they were responsible forthe clearance, would engage a
transporter and would move thecontainers to the warehouse
where they take over.
So I really found it to bequite interesting and exciting
and now that procurementknowledge that I had was now
(09:11):
coming to the fore, becausepurchasing and supply is talking
about the whole supply chain.
So what I'd learned and whatwas just theory was now being
implemented to be practical.
So I just realized this iswhere I belong, because it was a
passion and I really enjoyed it.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
So you worked in multiple other places, staying
in this line of logistics.
How did you see that sectorevolve as you climbed up the
career path?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I think as I was growing up I started to realize
the immense opportunities.
Initially I was tunnel visionedbecause I thought, okay, it's
just the receiving of the goodsin the warehouse, in the
distribution.
I'd limited knowledge of thewhole industries, so to speak.
(10:01):
But as I was going up I was nowbeing introduced to things like
forwarding, where you'reresponsible for the movement of
the cargo from source.
For example, if the containeris coming from China or the
States, you're responsible fromthe source to destination.
(10:21):
So now that whole chain, howcomplex it is, the different
parts that need to come in place.
It then became so exciting andso eye-opening because there are
certain things we would takefor granted.
For example, we would get anagent at the port, port of Beira
, which is our nearest port toZimbabwe.
(10:42):
We are landlocked as a country,so we use the Beira port in
Mozambique.
So you would think, when acontainer or when a vessel
arrives at the port, they justdischarge the vessel, get the
container and off to Zimbabwe.
But there are so many parts, somany moving parts that need to
(11:03):
be aligned for that to happen.
So, like you said, as I wasclimbing up I started to
understand and also just embracethe complexities of the
industry.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah, I mean I was going to ask about the closest
port because I knew thatZimbabwe was landlocked.
So are there any languagebarriers?
Mozambique is Portuguese.
Are there any language barriersin your line of work, or do you
have people who speakPortuguese on your team?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Funny enough, I think .
As they say, africa, we are one, it's just the borders that
separate us, because when you dogo to Mozambique, you can speak
Shona, and they can understandyou, but of course they'll
probably speak with an accent,but you can actually converse,
okay, yes, so the languagebarriers are very minimal,
(11:50):
especially at Bay Report.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
So at what point, then, did you start thinking
about wanting to start your ownbusiness?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I think when I was now in management at management
level, I then decided you know,I've got a vision as a person on
what I thought I needed to seethings run.
So it's difficult really whenyou're supporting somebody's
vision vis-a-vis pursuing yourown vision.
(12:21):
So I think that was the point Idecided maybe it's time to now
pursue my own vision as Chipo.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
And so what steps did you take and how long was this
process from ideation tostepping out?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
It took quite a while , because it's a huge step.
Don't know if I mentioned thatI'm a single mom.
So because of that, you've gota lot of fears, because you're
used to um an income at the endof the month, which you know is
definitely coming.
So this other direction wouldtake you to a place where maybe
(13:00):
things won't work out.
And now, with the daughter thatyou're raising, if things don't
work out, it's not with adaughter that you're raising, if
things don't work out, it's notjust about you.
So I had a lot of battleswithin me, but eventually I
decided to take the leap offaith.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
So you start this company in 2016 and, at the same
time, you decide to do an MBA.
Correct, what was thatexperience like?
You're a single mom, you'reraising your daughter, you're
starting a business and you'redoing an MBA all at the same
time.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Okay.
So bear in mind when you'restarting something as big as a
company and you have a bigvision for it, you're not going
to wake up today and boom,you've got an office, you've got
staff and you've got a companyrunning.
It starts with the registration, the paperwork and all that.
(13:54):
So I remember I actually had alead time of almost nine months
after registration to get thedocuments to become a clearing
company.
So all that you know, thatwaiting period and there are a
lot of dynamics that will becoming into play before one
(14:17):
finally settles and says, okay,now we are starting business.
So I can say 2018, that's whenI cleared my first shipment.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Okay, yes, so what was the MBA process like and why
did you feel the need to do anMBA?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
I think, the need to grow.
I was feeling a bit stunted andI thought well, academically
that is.
So I felt maybe let me embarkon a master's program and also
see if it ties in with my visionof, you know, just trying to
run my own entity.
And what was because you did itremotely.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yes, I did.
Okay, and what was thatexperience like?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I would never even tell my worst enemy to try it.
It's crazy.
I had no social life, nofriends, nothing, no weekends.
No, nobody should do it.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Sorry, I should be marketing my college, but it
paid off in the end.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Oh, it did.
It just needs a lot ofdedication.
I think once you embark on it,you need to be certain you're
not going to go back.
You just have to be dedicatedand push through.
Yes, you will enjoy the rewardsDefinitely, definitely.
And push through.
Yes, you will enjoy the rewardsDefinitely, definitely.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
So you finish your MBA and then your company is all
set up.
So tell us how the name cameabout, and then you can go into
the work that you started doinginitially.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
So, on registration, as I was doing, my vision board,
my objectives and everythingthat I needed for that business,
I say to myself I need a namethat resonates with the
international market, becauseI'm not doing or I'm not
starting a company for Zimbabwe,but it's a global company.
(16:16):
So I want a name that, whatevercontinent that I go into, you
know it just resonates with thatplace.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
So tell us about the vision you had starting.
It seems like it was like gobig or go home.
That seemed like your goal fromthe jump.
So what was your vision whenyou set out to start Cooperoupon
Jones?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Okay, right.
So from the get, go, like yourightfully said, it was go big
or go home, sink or swim.
And I decided I'm going to swimand I'm going to swim a
marathon.
Whatever I'm establishing isnot just for me, but it's for my
daughter, my daughter'schildren and their children, so
it's a generational company thatI'm setting up.
(17:01):
So, with that in mind, I had alot of forces that I had to look
at so that I was able to thenmake, or rather have, a
foundation for such an entitythat I was trying to build.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Years of experience.
You have this MBA under yourbelt.
You have a good sense of how torun the business, what the
market is like.
What challenges did you facegoing in?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Right.
The number one challenge wasgender based.
This logistics industry inZimbabwe, and I think in most
parts of the world, is very muchmale dominated.
So before I went into thetrucking business, which we'll
talk about later, I was mainlydoing the clearance and the
forwarding.
So to get the market to acceptme, they accepted Chippo, who
(17:50):
was working for Sorenso.
Now for them to accept me asChippo who is running this
entity, it was really hard, um,but I just want to say kudos to
those who believed in me andthey gave me a chance.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yes, you started off doing clearing and forwarding
and then you now started toexpand.
The business was trucking.
The next, the next level upfrom clearing and forwarding.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yes, Tracking came in and I don't want to say it was
by default, because it was alsothrough some work that I did.
I was part of a program calledAcademy for Women Entrepreneurs,
which is a brainchild of the USEmbassy and sponsored by USADF.
(18:42):
So I remember I backed on it in2019.
You know, I just saw it onFacebook where they sent out
calls for this program.
I thought, oh well, why not?
Then boom, yes, yes, I wasselected to to be part of the
ladies who were attending inzimbabwe.
(19:03):
They chose a hundred ladies toattend the program out of over
900 applicants.
It was the first cohort.
Then, a couple of months later,I was fortunate to be among the
seven grantees in Zimbabwe andwith my grant I had indicated
(19:26):
that I wanted to buy a wallagetruck because I had seen that,
as a clearing company, you wouldfeed the supply chain better by
having a one-stop shop wherethe containers that you're going
to clear you're going to carrythem with your own truck.
So even for marketing, it makesthe client at ease because
everything is now being doneunder one roof.
(19:48):
So I did buy my first truckwith the grants and from that
day I said I'm not stoppingAgain.
Kudos to USAIDF, AmericanEmbassy for that opportunity.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
That's fantastic.
They're doing an amazing job onthe continent, I must say, you
know, in shoring up and fillingthe funding gap that exists for
small, medium-sized enterprises.
So, yes, kudos to them.
You know, and I also read, thatnot only were you able to buy
the truck, but you saw asignificant increase in your
revenue from that.
(20:21):
I did.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Like I said, the moment you go and pitch for work
and they would ask, ok, so doyou have trucks?
That says yes, but then wewould be honest enough to say we
also work with partners whogive us their trucks that we run
, but in that fleet we also haveour own truck, because we
bought the first truck.
(20:43):
Then, I'm sure, the followingyear, we bought two more trucks,
so now we had three, and a yearlater we had two more to make
them five.
So we were growing.
And I remember there's this oneproject that I always want to
talk about In 2022, it was anational project where we
(21:04):
cleared.
In total, there were 593 trucksthat we moved from Beira Port to
a place called Wange here inZimbabwe, and we were also in
charge of clearing the wholevessel at the port.
We were in charge for clearingthe cargo at the border post.
(21:25):
This is a feat that had neverbeen done by a wholly
female-owned business.
So we actually made it inZimbabwe, which was such a proud
moment for us as Cooper andJones, and for myself, as Chippo
you know to to have done suchum also for the nation so, yeah,
(21:46):
I did read about it and I wasgoing to to ask you about it and
to congratulate you on on that.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
You know it's funny.
You were talking about wantingto be an air hostess because you
hadn't seen female pilots.
It's important that wedemonstrate what success looks
like, that we position ourselvesin places that young girls can
see and can aspire, like younggirls can aspire to be vice
president or president becauseof other women, and so women can
(22:13):
.
Young girls can look at you andsay I can own a global trucking
company.
I can own a global logisticscompany.
So kudos to you, kudos to youon that and just talking about
that being a single mom andbuilding all of this and I'm
just wondering how this hasimpacted your daughter, who has
watched you grow and evolve andsucceed.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I must say it's been positive and negative.
Positive in the sense thatshe's being inspired as a woman
to work hard and she's seen thefruits of that hard work.
But I think I would saynegative in the because I feel
sometimes she really pushesherself so much because at the
(23:01):
back of her mind she's saying Iwant to be like mommy, or I want
to supersede what mommy hasachieved.
So she tries so hard, you know,just to be the best at whatever
she's doing.
Sometimes I tell her you knowwhat?
I'm not a super mom, even atwork.
I'm not a super mom, even atwork.
I'm not.
I'm not a super boss.
There are things that I alsofail to do.
(23:23):
But she just sees this epitomeof a woman who works out in the
chiefs and that's why I say it'sprobably good and bad.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah yeah, so Chipo in in terms of funding.
I know that there was the grantfrom USADF back in 2019.
But just in terms offundraising, what has that been
like for your business?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
We have only been fortunate to receive that one
grant, and we have not receivedany other funding.
Not that we're also looking forit at the moment.
No, but yeah, we were justtrying to see how we could grow
our business, as you know, justas Cooper and Jones, to see what
we could do.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
And you talked about partners before.
So what kind of partnerships doyou engage in in the region?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Okay, so I'll start on the trucking side, because we
do not have such a huge fleet.
So we've partnered with varioustransporters where, if we get
big contracts, we subcontracttheir trucks to ferry the loads.
Then we've also partnered witha company at the ports, both in
Durban Durban Port, south Africaand at Beira Port for the
(24:35):
warehousing where, if clientsrequire some warehousing
services, we can also providethat.
Yes, so those are the majorpartnerships that we have
entered into.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Okay, and are those the two main ports that service
Zimbabwe?
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yes, those are the two main ones.
We also have Dar es Salaam inTanzania, but it's a bit further
so it doesn't really bring inmuch traffic.
And we also have Welvis Bay inNamibia.
That one also doesn't bring inmuch traffic, but here and there
(25:14):
you get a few cargo coming in.
Yes, where?
Speaker 1 (25:18):
where is zimbabwe importing most things from?
Who are your main tradingpartners?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
I think well, I wouldn't want to speak for the
organization called zip tradewere in charge of this, but from
the top of my head, I think weare getting quite a bit of stuff
from china.
Why do I say so?
Because, well, I guess thecontainers that I move, I just
hear they're coming from China.
(25:44):
So I believe, and I think Indiaas well, I think is also
getting quite a bit of stuff.
Then we've got South Africa.
That's our best trading partnerin the region.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Okay, so we've talked about the imports.
What about exports?
What kind of work do you do onthat side, the export side?
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Cooper and Jones.
We are very big on the exportsof minerals.
I think that is one of ourbiggest areas really.
So most of the exports we do,they go via Bayeraport.
Yes, so minerals are the bigthing right now for us.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
So what is the business environment like for
women generally in Zimbabwe?
Speaker 2 (26:28):
I can say probably like anywhere else.
There's a lot of push that youneed to make as a woman.
I think somebody said to me youknow what you need to work
twice as hard just becauseyou're a woman.
But I feel the men I'll speakfor my industry they're also
(26:53):
starting to realize that youknow, these women can also make
it.
They can do it.
So I can say it's gettingbetter.
But we just need more women tokeep pushing and to get our
voices heard.
I'm sure we will have a seat atthe table.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
So what do you think the next five years looks like
for you, Chipo?
I see growth.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I see great opportunities for Cooper and
Jones.
Why do I say so?
We have also embarked on Idon't want to call it a program
we have also embarked on I don'twant to call it a program, but
it's an initiative where we wereregistered on the Ethics First
(27:33):
website.
This Ethics First is aninitiative of an organization
called Center for InternationalPrivate Enterprises where they
are lobbying for compliance andintegrity in businesses.
So at Cooper Jones we have saidwe want to be compliant, we
want to be integrous in all ourdealings and because of that I'm
(27:55):
seeing it also as a springboardto better and bigger doors for
the business.
Hence I said in five years timeI'm sure we are going to be
such a powerhouse.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
That's fantastic.
And so when you say growth, isthis growth in Zimbabwe, in the
SADC region, you know what doesthat kind of growth look like?
Speaker 2 (28:18):
This is global growth , this is global Wow, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
In wrapping up, I normally ask my guests to
reflect and to give advice.
So, in terms of reflection,what would you say has been one
or two of the most impactfulthings that you have achieved in
building this business, thisglobal business, in Zimbabwe?
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I think the first one will be when I did my
recruitment right, I decided togive people a chance who
probably didn't fit in to therequirements.
Really, why did I take thatroute?
I felt I needed to give peoplea chance because before I had
(29:02):
been to interviews and I wasrejected and I knew how it felt.
You know, sometimes you neededsomething so badly but you'd get
rejected.
So when I started Cooper andJones I said I'm going to try
and get people not in thetechnical roles especially for
clearing, that's more technical.
You need people who really know.
(29:24):
But for the other positions Idecided to take people who I
felt maybe very few would givethem a chance.
So that's one thing that I did.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Then also.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
I remember I think it was it was 2020, 2021.
At Cooper and Jones, weidentified 10 marginalized women
who were coming from very poorbackgrounds.
They live in a township here inHarare, one of the poorest
townships in Harare.
So we identified them and wetook them for training on how to
(30:04):
make reusable pads so thatthey'll be able to feed their
families.
These women are single women.
I've got a heart for singlewomen because I know the
struggles, so we decided to givethem an opportunity where they
would learn that and just go outthere in the marketplace and
take care of their families.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
So, finally, there are many women out there who are
building businesses.
You have a heart for women too,and I wondered if you could
give one piece of advice toother women building businesses
in Africa.
What advice would that be?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I think what I would like to say is ladies, never
give up.
You know giving up shouldn't bepart of your vocabulary.
Pivot, yes, but don't give up.
You keep pushing.
I promise you one day that doorwill open I love it, pivots,
but don't give up.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yes, thank you so much.
This has been a greatconversation, thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for listening.
If you you're not alreadysubscribed, please do so on
Apple, spotify or wherever youget your podcast, and don't
forget to leave us a review sowe know how we're doing.
I'm Akego Okoye and you havebeen listening to African
(31:15):
Business Stories.
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